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- [00:01]
Salesperson
As a salesperson, the search for the right buyer or buying groups can feel like you're endlessly sifting through leads and hoping they're ready to buy. Thankfully, LinkedIn Sales Navigator is more than just a tool, it's your strategic sales partner. LinkedIn Sales Navigator is a sales intelligence platform that helps professionals effectively prospect and engage high value customers, drive higher revenue and increase sales performance. Sales Navigator helps you target the right buyers, surface key signals such as job changes or which accounts you should prioritize, and shows you hidden allies so you can find those buyers that are most likely to convert. Fueled by LinkedIn's 1 billion-member platform, Sales Navigator gives you the most up to date first party data, enabling you to unlock conversations with the people that matter. Ready to get right to the right conversations? Try LinkedIn Sales Navigator now with a 60 day free trial at LinkedIn.com rates 23 that's LinkedIn.com rates 23 for a 60 day free trial. Terms and conditions apply.
- [01:03]
Kristen Bell
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- [01:35]
Salesperson
Acast.
- [01:36]
Hannah Berner
Powers the world's best podcasts.
- [01:39]
Paige Desorbo
Here's a show that we recommend.
- [01:43]
Kristen Bell
Hey guys. Welcome to Giggly Squad, a place where.
- [01:46]
Hannah Berner
We make fun of everything but most importantly ourselves.
- [01:48]
Kristen Bell
I'm Paige Desorbo.
- [01:50]
Hannah Berner
I'm Hannah Berner.
- [01:51]
Kristen Bell
Welcome to the squad.
- [01:52]
Hannah Berner
Giggly Squad started on Summer House when we were giggling during inappropriate.
- [01:56]
Kristen Bell
But of course we can't be managed. So we decided to start this podcast. To continue giggling, we will make fun of pop culture news. We're watching Fashion Trends pep talks where we give advice, mental health moments and games and guests.
- [02:09]
Hannah Berner
Listen to Giggly Squad on Acast or wherever you get your podcasts. Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com foreign.
- [02:31]
Ayoa Kimwlere
Hello, I'm Ayoa Kimwlere and welcome to the Athletic FC podcast. As things stand, Pep Guardiola's contract expires at Manchester City at the end of the season. Meanwhile, the English Football association has still to announce a permanent replacement for Gareth Southgate. So if Is there any chance Guardiola would manage England? Right, I'm joined by the Athletic senior football writer Ollie Kay, and our Manchester City writer, Sam Lee as well. Now, before we get to Ollie and Sam, let's get a little word in from our England writer, Jack Pitt Brook, who was out in Helsinki for Sunday's 31 win over Finland. This is what he makes on how England search for a new permanent coach has changed over the last week.
- [03:17]
Ollie Kay
So the big question really from the last few days is not so much the results on the pitch, it's the question of who the next permanent England manager is going to be. And it feels like we're actually further away from an answer than we probably thought we were a week ago. Lee Casling has not really given a firm answer either way on whether or not he wants the job, although he has hinted very strongly that he does not especially want the job and would be happy enough going back to the under 21 job. He's also, you might say, undermined the case for his becoming England permanent manager, given how bad the performance was against Greece at Wembley on Thursday night.
- [03:52]
Salesperson
Shout for a penalty, a scrap and.
- [03:55]
Paige Desorbo
A goal from Pavlonis.
- [03:58]
Ollie Kay
Don't think there'll be any way of sugarcoating this one. Obviously, we don't know a lot about the process that's running in the background, led by John McDermott and Mark Bullingham, to look at candidates other than Lee Karsley. Very little has come out about this process so far, the FAA keeping it very much under wraps. It might be that we will just have to wait and see what emerges from that process before we know who the permanent manager who takes England to the 2026 World cup qualification campaign will be. But after the last few days, it feels less likely that that will be Lee Carsley.
- [04:35]
Ayoa Kimwlere
That was Jack Pitt Brooke on the FA search for the next England manager. Right, Ollie, let's go to you on this one. Whereas this international break left England and their process as they search for a permanent successor to Gareth Southgate.
- [04:49]
Paige Desorbo
Yeah, well, I think there was a belief among some of us, and it's not necessarily been encouraged by the fa, but there was a belief that it was perhaps Lee Carley's job to lose in the short term, just as a sort of short to meet medium term, that they might give him until the end of the season or something like that and then review it. And obviously he had the first two games which went well and was very positive. And then the third game, as in the first game of this international break they played against Greece at Wembley. He played a very interesting lineup where he played sort of no real center forward, Declan Rice sort of on his own in midfield and, and all the, all the creative players, Bellingham, Saka, Foden, etc, and it didn't work at all. I think Jack described it as putting the icing on the cake, but losing the cake, which I think was quite a good way of putting it. So that I think led a lot of people, and by this I mean fans, but also media. A lot of people have written or said that he's shown he can't be England manager. Now I would say it was a strange lineup, but you are allowed to experiment, you are allowed to do different things. I thought the surprising thing with, with him was that he said he'd done it having spent 20 minutes on it in training, which I thought that seemed a bit naive. Then last night's game in, in Helsinki, they won and it wasn't a brilliant performance, but it was a competent performance. 3 1. It was sort of Southgate era level performance. No real drama. Probably leaves the case for Carsley weaker than it seemed a week ago. But I am interested in what he's been saying and the, the sort of slightly mixed messages we'd be getting from him because, yeah, one minute he's saying England deserve a world class coach, then he's saying, no, I'm not ruling myself out. I don't think he knows what he wants. I don't think he's playing a game. I don't think he's trying to tie the media up in knots. I don't think he's trying to tie himself up in knots. I'm not sure he knows what he wants. I'm sure if he was offered it in a really persuasive way, he could be persuaded to take it. But maybe he's less likely to be offered it now than he was a week ago.
- [06:48]
Ayoa Kimwlere
Well, Sam, Tim Spears wrote a piece for the Athletic on Sunday considering whether or not Guardiola would be considered by England. You know, in 2021, Guardiola was quoted saying, you know, the next step will be a national team. If the opportunity presents itself, I would like to coach in a European Championship, a Copa America, a World Cup. Can you see something like this appealing to Guardiola?
- [07:12]
Hannah Berner
I can definitely see it appealing. I've thought for a few years, I don't know if it was thought or wishful thinking that Guardiola could end up as England manager, but it's just purely by piecing together what he says, and obviously the little bits of information that support that. So in terms of other clubs, you know, maybe he goes and finds another project, but it does feel like, you know, what is there left to achieve? Obviously, every season he goes out and he wants to achieve again, win the Premier League. And, you know, maybe it's a case of going to coach in Italy, where he loves the culture because he's played there, but then if it is going to be a national team, because as you just said there, he's, he's outlined the feelings of the things he'd want to do, you know, manage at a World cup and a World cup in America, by the way. So you might as well go and do it now, because he loves being in America, he loves being in New York. Then you do think, okay, well, the next job's going to be a national team. And then you think, well, who's it going to be? Probably. Unless he was feeling particularly. The thing is, the nature of Guardiola is he's kind of antagonistic just by existing in Spain because obviously he's seen as this kind of Catalan figurehead. And that's not going to fly brilliantly in terms of the, the core Spanish press, the Madrid based Spanish press, and most of the countries Spanish press, like Luis Enrique had a hard enough time, but Guardiola might feel like, you know what, I'm gonna do it anyway. But I don't know, I don't see it in terms of managing Italy. And like Argentina, for example, he's always said, in Argentina you have to have an Argentinian manager. In Brazil you have to have a Brazilian manager. In Italy, you have to have an Italian coming back to England, we got rid of that 20 years ago. We don't have to have an English guy. We haven't got that culture. If anything, English football style and culture now is the Premier League, which is this kind of multicultural style of just kind of copying whatever works elsewhere. So it seems like a logical step for England. And I do feel like if Guardiola wants to go and work at a national team next, there's not too many options. And I think one would have been America, but obviously they got Pochettino, so it kind of narrows it down to England. But I do have to say this may, this is maybe wishful thinking, pushing me down and narrowing, narrowing the options down so much. But I don't see, I don't see too many options. I do feel like England could be a great opportunity for him. Yeah.
- [09:21]
Ayoa Kimwlere
Another name that's been thrown in by the book is Ollie's. If Thomas Tuchel obviously Guardiola and you know, two coaches with very impressive cvs, Guardiola in particular. It got us thinking actually, you know, is this a job that's desirable for coaches and managers at that level, that elite level management? Because it's not the best paying job. But there is still kudos to being an England manager.
- [09:43]
Paige Desorbo
Yeah, I think if you go back even to pre Southgate and well, if you go back to the sort of dark years with England maybe So between the 2010 World cup and the 2018 World Cup, I don't think it was a desirable job at all. I think it became not just this idea of the impossible job but it was, it was felt that the players weren't good enough, there was no prospects, it was not one of the best paid jobs in England. If you go back to 2016 when obviously Sam Allardyce got the job, the other two coaches or the other two managers that were interviewed at that point were Steve Bruce, who's mocked by some, I think unfairly now, but has never been that sort of elite manager. Ralf Rannick, who I think at the time was he, was he at Red Bull doing sort of director of football type work at that time the idea of trying to attract a Guardiola or a Klopp or a Tuchel or whoever was just so far off the agenda. So it might be unlikely now but I don't think it's as unlikely in 2024 as it was at that point. I think you look at the players that have emerged with England and where do you start? If I start reeling them off. But there are very, very talented players and also just. I think Southgate has cleansed the England team and cleansed it as a brand and cleansed it as a sort of sporting brand. Not, not, not just commercial brand, but cleansed it as a, as an operation. The culture around it seems a lot better. I think it is a lot more appealing, I would guess that to an out of work, top level coach like Tuchel or Pochettino a few months ago before he took the America job, I think it would have been appealing. Whether you can entice somebody like Guardiola, I just don't know. I, I think, you know, it sounds like a lovely idea, very, very expensive idea. But would it happen in reality? I, I don't know. And I think the expense issue is, is a really big one because Southgate was earning about, I think at an absolute maximum if he achieved every bonus it was going to be something like 5 million pound a year. I think, with, with, With Guardiola, I think, yeah, his wages are way, way, way beyond that. Rightly so, because he's the best. But could the FAA justify paying that? I don't know.
- [11:56]
Ayoa Kimwlere
Well, for a World cup or a.
- [11:57]
Paige Desorbo
Euros, I mean, you don't guarantee. But you don't guarantee winning it, do you? You. I mean, England got Fabio Capello thinking he was the closest thing to a guarantee in 2008 and got knocked out in last 16. And look, Capello was a great club manager in his time. Guardiola is a brilliant, sensational, genius coach who's probably the best. The best that there's been for decades, but is. No, there's still no guarantee in terms of the money.
- [12:23]
Hannah Berner
Just thinking on the hoop here, on the hoof, even not basketball. If Guardiola wants to go into international management, which seemingly he does, it's not like, I don't know if this is the case, maybe the American association would, but how many National FAs are going to have more money than England to say, oh, well, come on, managers, then we've got 20 million a year you can have. He's probably factored that in Saudi Arabia. It's true. Yeah, yeah, yeah, very true. But all right, mostly it's always the.
- [12:51]
Ayoa Kimwlere
Caveat, isn't it, who's got all the money in the world?
- [12:55]
Hannah Berner
Well, but in terms of factoring that in, do I want to go and try and win a World cup with these teams? I don't know whether he's thought about the money, but it's just a kind of, well, we don't have to worry about that because I know I'm not going to get it. But for the experience, and if he gets 6 million, 8 million, and that's less than half, you might still think, well, it's decent, you know, for this experience that I want to do. But then just going back to, you know, certain countries having an identity where it's like, this guy has to be from our country, it's almost better with England that the guy's not from England, because it's almost like this massive cross to bear as an England manager. And we saw with the nonsense around Carsley and singing the national anthem, all these things that you can get bogged down in being an Englishman, manage in England. Whereas it might be nice for a foreign manager to go, they got some good players, I'll go manage them. Especially with Guardiola, he's so big, he's not really going to get bogged down. In the politics of being an England manager, really, he'll just shrug it off and carry on. You know, he's got the big. Enough politics with his own country into. I say his own country. I should probably say that that's Catalonia, but with Spain and everything, you know, some kind of parochial English issue, you know, he'll put a poppy on and he'll get on with it, but other than that, he won't get bogged down in it. I don't think he'll just focus on trying to work with the players.
- [14:00]
Ayoa Kimwlere
But also I think what is in favor of Guardiola and actually Tuchel to a certain degree is that compared to maybe a capella and Sven, I mean, these. These are two coaches have actually worked and played against English players. Do you know what I mean? Like, they've been in the league for a considerable amount of time, actually. So that familiarity, Oli, I mean, that can only be a beneficial thing.
- [14:19]
Paige Desorbo
Yeah. I mean, as a point of principle, I think the national team coach should be from the. From the country that you're representing. I feel like that should be part of the value of international football. I don't think that's. You know, I'm not a nationalistic person, but I think as a principle in international football, that should be sort of enshrined in the way England or Germany or Italy or whoever operates. And I think with most of the leading countries, that is the case. And maybe I'm flattering England by including them in leading countries because they won one World cup in history. But if you were to go beyond your borders, I think you would naturally think somebody who's more assimilated. I think for years people said Arsene Wenger would have been perfect because he was sort of this adopted Englishman in some ways, but still retained the absolute global and international outlook that separated him from the majority of British coaches or all British coaches. So I think the idea of somebody more assimilated, integrated, if you're going down the overseas route is interesting. I always thought Pochettino was going to be in a. Was an interesting idea. Perhaps more when he was. When he was at spurs and then when he left spurs and went with psg and then it was the suggestion that Southgate was going to go post 2022 World Cup. I thought. I thought that would be a really good time to go for Pochettino. I think this summer just gone. Was a really good time to go for Pochettino. And for whatever reason, they didn't and America have done. And I think that's a, you know, a really good appointment for them but again, no guarantees whatsoever. So yeah, I think England would just. The FA were just hoping that a solution would emerge, whether it was Carsley in the short to medium term or maybe somebody I don't know like Guardiola or like Klopp long term or perhaps moving towards the World Cup. But it looks more complicated than that to me. You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast with IO Accamulere.
- [16:19]
Salesperson
As a salesperson, the search for the right buyer or buying groups can feel like you're endlessly sifting through leads and hoping they're ready to buy. Thankfully, LinkedIn Sales Navigator is more than just a tool. It's your strategic sales partner. LinkedIn Sales Navigator is a sales intelligence platform that helps professionals effectively prospect and engage high value customers, drive higher revenue and increase sales performance. Sales Navigator helps you target the right buyers, surface key signals such as job changes or which accounts you should prioritize, and shows you hidden allies so you can find those buyers that are most likely to convert. Fueled by LinkedIn's 1 billion-member platform, Sales Navigator gives you the most up to date first party data, enabling you to unlock conversations with the people that matter. Ready to get right to the right conversations? Try LinkedIn Sales Navigator now with a 60 day free trial at link. LinkedIn.com rates 23. That's LinkedIn.com rates 23 for a 60 day free trial.
- [17:19]
Kristen Bell
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- [17:53]
Ollie Kay
McCrispy strips are now at McDonald's.
- [17:56]
Paige Desorbo
I hope you're ready for the most.
- [17:57]
Hannah Berner
Dippable chicken in McDonald's history.
- [17:59]
Ollie Kay
Dip it in all the sauces.
- [18:01]
Paige Desorbo
Dip it in that hot sauce in your bag.
- [18:02]
Hannah Berner
Dip it in your McFlurry. Your dip is your business.
- [18:05]
Ollie Kay
McCrispy strips at McDonald's.
- [18:14]
Ayoa Kimwlere
Let's talk about Guardiola's future, Sam, because with any decision, he's still got a job, hasn't he?
- [18:19]
Hannah Berner
Yeah.
- [18:20]
Ayoa Kimwlere
Still, let's not forget that bit, right? You know, with any big decision, whether it be national team who takes it as a. As A coach or whether it's a Premier League team. Timing is of the essence. I was just thinking, you know, how much does that uncertainty over Guardiola's future, a future at City, feed into all these discussions and the possibilities of him taking an England job or, you know, going elsewhere, for instance?
- [18:42]
Hannah Berner
Yeah, well, obviously, like if, if his future was more assured at City, then we wouldn't, we wouldn't even be having this conversation and we'd probably be looking at it like, well, who is going to be the next manager? Like, who is the best candidate? Especially since Klopp's ruled himself out and obviously has since got a new job anyway, because there's, there's, there's Klopp and there's Pep at the top and then, you know, below that it's Tuchel and everyone else, Eddie Howe as well. To be fair, you know, if we're talking about English managers, then probably the most likely, possibly best of both worlds scenario. But yeah, in terms of Guardiola, City future, we know it is. Last year we've been reporting on the Athletic for the last week or so, obviously with Cheeky Baguirustein leaving, as far as my information goes, in the summer, I was told that Cheeky and Pep would leave at the same time in 2025. Now we know that Cheeky is going, that's been confirmed. And Hugo Viana is coming in to replace him as sporting director. Director of football. Guardiola is harder to pin down because as honestly everybody who knows him says, and as colleagues who have been trying to get information and speaking to their people around Pep, everyone just says, you never know with Pep he might change his mind. And that's obviously what City are hoping for. With Cheeky, they're like, okay, we know he's not going to retire, but they know he wants to go and step away from City, have a bit of a less stressful day to day working life. So they're not going to try and change his mind. And they've known for a couple of years that this would kind of be the point where it end, but with Pep, they'll just keep putting contracts in front of him. And if he looks around and thinks, well, these players are still fighting, they're still listening to what I want, they're still motivated, I still see an end point. I still, I'm sorry, I still see like a point where we can win trophies, then let's carry on. But at the end of last season, he was thinking, okay, like this is, this is enough. Now we're Winding down the reality, I'm.
- [20:20]
Salesperson
Closer to leave than staying.
- [20:22]
Hannah Berner
So eight years will be nine. But by the time he'd had a break in the summer, came back and was doing pre season press conferences in New York, he felt energized. And he was saying, yeah, like, if you like it, why should. Why should you stop? And he was given the impression that he would carry on, that he was at least thinking about it. But then recently, with the City fans putting up a banner saying, we want you to stay, they did it in Catalan and they put up the Catalan Independence flags as well to really kind of appeal to him, he really appreciated that. But when he talked about it, he was kind of like, it's nice, but whatever will happen will happen. And the fans didn't read too positively into that. And obviously now with the cheeky news, there is obviously this whole climb overall, that this might well be Guardiola's last season, I think we obviously don't know, but I think either way, it's kind of a hunch, I'd say. I reckon by the end of the year we'll know either way. I don't think as much as City want him to stay, I think they know if he is going to go, they can't leave it until April. I think they're going to need to know what the plan is early. And he signed the last two extensions in November in 2020 and 2022, so I wouldn't be surprised if they can't convince him to do one this November. They might say, okay, is that it then? And should we put it out there? Maybe they don't put it out there, but maybe a decision will be taken either way before the end of the year.
- [21:37]
Ayoa Kimwlere
Yeah. Oli, I'm going to come to you very quickly just on that, Sam. I just think about the impact Guardiola has had at Manchester City and the way he's been able to be given freedom to do so much at Manchester City. So there's a real personal connection there to the growth of this club. Do you think it makes that decision even harder? I know we keep talking about putting contracts in front of it, but, you know, I think I've even. He's even been quoted to say this is one of the happiest ever been in football management, having friends locally and all that kind of stuff.
- [22:03]
Hannah Berner
Well, yeah, because we talked about the drama and the politics of international stuff and Spanish media and stuff earlier. Even at Bayern Munich, he had people above his head, not necessarily criticizing him, but they were more so in the first year or so when Bayern lost to Real Madrid in the Champions League and stuff. But people above his head, you know, club legends, just talking. But who at City talks about him? Who's at City, connected to the club in any kind of, like, historic level, gives a loud opinion that kind of dictates the news agenda. It doesn't happen. But before we'd have Beckham, Bauer, people like this, sometimes slagging him off, and sometimes even just like. But there was just talk at City, it's all calm. Obviously, at Barcelona, we know how chaotic it was with everything. One of the things he talks about in terms of having such a calm life here is how the media is much more relaxed. He always kind of says, which is kind of damning for us, like, we're not. We're not. We're not on the training ground every day, you know, like when Xavi was having press conferences at Barcelona last year, the press conference was like 45 minutes every time, like, everyone, like, sticking the knife in. So he's got a calm life in that sense. Yeah, the club's kind of built around him, isn't it? We know that. And I'm sure that is part of what he's thinking. Like, I wouldn't mind a break now. Maybe he is. Maybe. I don't know, maybe he is thinking, although it is the World cup, maybe I could go and do something there. But this is as good as it's going to get. You know, maybe he thinks, give it a year and I might regret leaving City because it's such a good gig, it's a great gig. And like I say, as long as he feels like the players are with him and they're still listening to him and he's got energy, he's always going to be tempted to stay. But, you know, maybe if he's got that idea in his head and he has for a couple of years that maybe this is it, you know, maybe the family are looking forward to it kind of thing, then maybe that is when he kind of takes the break. And also, we always kind of look at what might he do based on what you've done in the past, in terms of a sabbatical, for example. But then if you go and take an international job, obviously he's going to work hard, but it's not as hard. You're not on the training ground every day. So first of all, you've got the challenge of adapting how he is as a manager and how he works, but you've also got a slightly more relaxed element of you can spend more time with your family. He can probably get a place in London. I know when he first came over to City, sorry for going on, but he said to Cheeky, he was like, jokingly, he was like, cheeky, why couldn't you have been like, sporting director Arsenal or something? I could have got. Could have got a nice house in Notting Hill. The weather's a bit better, but it was purely just because of the weather. He did a Match of the Day interview the other week and he just dropped in. He was like, what did he say? Like from November to March, it's terrible here. Like, he hates the weather, but, you know, he could split his time between London. I think he'd like liver in London. It could stay, you know, he could spend most of the time in Barcelona. It wouldn't be a problem. At the same time, he could go and, you know, he could do Barcelona and Rome if he wanted to. But, yeah, all of these things. He might just be thinking a bit more of a quieter life, but still a challenge, which is kind of what Cheeky's thinking. Maybe that starts to appeal, but City will always try and convince him otherwise.
- [24:48]
Ayoa Kimwlere
Yeah, Oli, Sam makes a good point there in terms of, you know, does he go straight back into management? National team will need a coach imminently, really. If you're thinking about the next World cup, is it right for him to go straight back into management as well? I mean, that's a lot to consider on what he does next, really.
- [25:04]
Paige Desorbo
Yeah. If you consider how burnt out he felt after four years at Barcelona and then obviously he had the sabbatical and then he's been managing this. This will be, I think, his 12th consecutive season in management. The three at Bayern. And now is this number nine at City? I think it is. So, I mean, he seems to be absolute sort of have this manic work ethic where. Where he just sort of works, works, works. Never stops thinking about it. I would be surprised if he went straight into another club job when he leaves City. And, you know, as Sam said, you know, we still don't know when that will be. There are various things which seem to suggest or seem to point towards this summer being more likely than ever. But I think Sam would agree that we've both spoken to people at Citi over the years who have been really surprised and delighted when he's been in the last year of his contract and he's agreed an extension, because I think back in. Was it 2020, they weren't expecting him to extend and then he suddenly did. And then he's extended again since then, hasn't he? They will hope that he stays on. I still don't discount the possibility of him staying on. If he did leave at the end of the season, I just can't see another club he would go to immediately. I've always thought, well, why doesn't he just go back to Barcelona? But people close to him said, no, that's that, that's, that's never been on the cards. Never. Never as a, never as a coach at least. So I don't know, I don't know what he will do at that point. I could see, Sam says that there is a case for international football in the late and the less, the less strenuous, less stressful aspect of that. But I do also feel he seems to wear the pressure of management a lot more lightly now than he did when he was at Barcelona. Although it looks like it consumes him 24. 7. He, he might tell us, well, it only consumes him like that for 20 hours a day and, and he could actually switch off for four hours and, and he's got it under control. But he does. He doesn't seem as pressurized over nine seasons at City as he did at in four seasons at Barcelona where he was this kind of cultural leader as well as, as well as being a coach of football team.
- [27:17]
Kristen Bell
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- [27:48]
Paige Desorbo
With an hour before boarding, there's only one place to go the Chase Sapphire Lounge by the club. There you can recharge before the big adventure or enjoy a locally inspired dish. You can recline in a comfy chair.
- [27:59]
Hannah Berner
To catch up on your favorite show or order a craft cocktail at the bar. Whatever you're in the mood for, find.
- [28:06]
Paige Desorbo
The detail that moves you with curated touches at the Chase Sapphire Lounge by the club Chase. Make more of what's yours.
- [28:12]
Salesperson
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- [28:22]
Paige Desorbo
This is the Athletic FC podcast with IO Akumalara.
- [28:29]
Ayoa Kimwlere
Let's look at what happens next with Manchester City if Guardiola doesn't stay on. Because one key aspect to consider with Guardiola's future is how Manchester City are potentially planning for life without him. Sam, you know, they'll be hopeful to try and keep him for sure, but will have half an eye on what happens next. Do we get a sense of where City are in that conversation? I mean, this is a well run club, right? So they must be thinking, you know, this might not be the future with Guardiola.
- [29:01]
Hannah Berner
Yeah, absolutely. And that's why I'm. What I'm talking about in terms of a decision coming soon either way. Because as much as, you know, if City thought, oh, you know, maybe if we can get to April, we can get him to sign a new contract, they know that it's a big risk, isn't it? Because if he doesn't, then they've got a start getting everything in place then. So obviously they want to give themselves as much time as possible to convince Guardiola, but also to, to get the new guy in. Obviously. There's been a few links over the last few days to Ruben Amarim because he's the sporting manager, and they're getting Hugo Viana, who is the sporting director of football. And obviously they're, they're very close. I don't know. I'd like to. I don't know. I'm not too enthused by Amarum. So when I'm talking about wishful thinking earlier with Guardiola, maybe this is me, the opposite of wishful thinking. But I don't know. I think there's a big element of two plus two with it now. Maybe that's what they want to do. They want to kind of coach and sporting director who are very close, like they had with pep and cheeky. But I feel like that was the kind of exceptional package, you know, and it wasn't just pep and cheeky, was it? It was Franzariano, the CEO. They wanted to get their academy playing Barcelona style as well. That was the whole thing. They're not just gonna, they're not gonna adopt the Portuguese style now. You know, when I said earlier on, if it's not pep for England and obviously it's not Klopp, you start to think, well, who is it going to be? There's no candidate that jumps out. It's the same with City. It's the same. The thing is, Guardiola is the best by far, isn't he? Oh, if he's not by far. Then I'd say Klopp's probably a little bit below, which may be controversial, but shoot me, that's it. He's a little bit below, but he's not going to do it, obviously. So you kind of got to manage that kind of downsizing, I guess. Arteta would have been a candidate if Guardiola had left in three years ago, even when he wasn't doing well at Arsenal. But he's done so well at Arsenal now. He's kind of such an Arsenal man. And especially after the game three or four weeks ago, it just feels like that's never going to happen. It probably wasn't going to happen before that, but definitely not now. They like CFG people, people who've worked in the group. So Vieira again years ago would have been an option even when he wasn't doing particularly well at palace, but been kind of out of the top level for so long, it seems unlikely Postecoglou, because he's worked for Jokohammer. I remember doing an interview with Brian Marwood years ago and they mentioned how they really liked this guy called Postecoglou. Not necessarily in the ambit of working for City, but it's how they like him. They got this really guy out, really good guy out in Japan and obviously now he's at spurs. And then the obvious name that everybody likes is Xabi Alonso, but there's not been anything concrete about that. So, yeah, they will have their plans, but it's difficult to kind of work out where those plans will take them.
- [31:24]
Paige Desorbo
It's interesting because if you speak to anybody, City sort of behind the scenes, they will talk about, you know, if you speak to a friendly length of time, they'll talk about their love of succession planning, whether it's for the chief executive, the sporting director, the commercial manager, anyone in the media office, etc. Analytics. There's always this view that they've got a succession plan. Often it's internal. I don't think it would be internal with the coach, but it's interesting how that has evolved over time because in that initial period where, I mean, he arrived in 2016, they only thought he was going to do three years. And at that time, sort of 2016 to 2018, it was thought that Patrick Vieira might be. Might be in the frame long term, and then it was thought that Arteta might be in the frame long term. And then obviously Vieira went elsewhere and didn't do terribly well as a A coach. Certainly not well enough to be considered for that kind of job, Arteta's gone elsewhere and done very well and become sort of firmly reassociated with Arsenal. And I think that just evolves over time. I, I think there's a. Documenting a. On a hard drive somewhere with, with their top three. I would imagine it's ever changing and maybe, maybe it is Amarim for next summer or maybe it's Alonso or whoever, but I'm absolutely certain that their number one choice for who they would like to be in charge next season will still be Guardiola. So who's to say they can't make that happen again? It's, it's, it's. I know various things look like the stars are aligning to take him away this summer, but I would still expect them to try really hard to keep him and make a strong case.
- [33:01]
Ayoa Kimwlere
Yeah, Sam, I did say, well run club and there'll be football fans screaming at this podcast going, yeah, but, but, but 115 charges. How much do you reckon that that will have an impact on whether or not Guardiola stays or any sort of succession planning, actually, in fact, because we still don't obviously know what the outcome of that case looks like.
- [33:23]
Hannah Berner
No, but the club are kind of carrying on as if it's not going to be an issue. So it's almost. I, I feel that in terms of, you know, cheeky and possibly Guardiola as well leaving next summer and that being planned, the charges haven't factored in that. I really don't think, maybe I'm wrong, but I really don't think they have. I don't. This isn't the case of, oh, well, we've got this, we better get out of the way. I, I actually feel like if, obviously this isn't going to be the case because that hearing about the charges is going on now, so it's not going to be a verdict soon. But if, if there was somehow a verdict like November, December, which isn't going to happen, and City were relegated, let's say, I think Guardiola would be more likely to stay in terms of the challenge and the defiance. And, you know, we're talking about the emotional factor. If there's that big thing like that, it'd be like, well, I'm not leaving now. I genuinely think that would be the case. But I. At City, they, they just don't talk about it with agents. They don't say, you know, when players are signing, they say, oh, look, by the way, we put this clause in the case, it's not talked about. And if it gets asked, then they say, well, don't worry about it. That's what we told our players. So your play will be the same. I think they're just carrying on as normal. There must be some kind of plan in place, maybe financially, maybe all these net spend, they always winning the net spend. They're bringing in so much money now from player sales and in the summer, at least they didn't spend it. Maybe that's in case they need these financial reserves, in case something goes against them. But I think on a football level, you know, they're still planning to bring in players next summer to play in the Premier League. I don't think in terms of Guardiola and Bagheerstein they're thinking of the charges are here. I think that's just kind of almost irrelevant to them because they're convinced that nothing's going to happen to City in terms of a major punishment beyond a fine maybe for not cooperating. I actually think those charges have been irrelevant to the decision making that's gone on so far in terms of their futures.
- [35:06]
Ayoa Kimwlere
Oli, it's a tricky one replacing Guardiola, isn't it? You know, think about how Manchester United have moved on from Alex Ferguson. Arsenal with Wenger, Liverpool with Klopp. It's so tricky to replace someone so iconic. This feels like Manchester City's Ferguson moment. How do you go about replacing potentially one of the greatest managers in world football?
- [35:31]
Paige Desorbo
Well, I think Manchester United have shown how not to do it. When you look at this and if you look at how Liverpool did it through the years, you know, post Shankly, for example, they went for this sort of smooth continuity option. Shankly to Paisley and then Paisley to Fagan and then Fagan's Dalglish always keeping in house. And I think that was. That was probably a lot easier back in those days when a manager wasn't. Didn't have to be a sort of all powerful figure. But maybe in this era where managers or coaches are purely expected to be a coach. Again referring to Liverpool, Klopp left and everyone was talking about the huge vacuum and personality vacuum and Arne Slot hasn't attempted to fill the sort of personality vacuum in terms of, well, not publicly, maybe in the dressing room. But he's just, he's just coached and I think maybe it's less of a big deal when you talk about taking over from Guardiola because Guardiola has never attempted to be this sort of all powerful figure within the club. He is really powerful, but he doesn't decide everything in the way that Ferguson did at Manchester United. So it's, it's. I think the difficulty is almost anyone would be a, would be a downgrade from Guardiola, but you've got to appoint somebody who would stimulate the players in the same way rather than just an inferior version of the same sort of Guardiola brand. So I don't know where you go with it, but I would also say that compared to Manchester United in 2013, who had been drifting for a few years, and Ferguson had been sort of papering over the cracks by leading them to those last two league titles in incredibly impressive fashion when the squad was kind of crumbling a bit. I think City are built on stronger foundations. Not sort of global fan base or whatever, but they are built on firmer foundations in terms of the structures within the club, the expertise within the club. Obviously that changes slightly if people like Bulgaria Stein are leaving, but I feel like City have got a better chance of getting it right than perhaps Manchester United did in 2013.
- [37:43]
Ayoa Kimwlere
All right, gents, let's end it there. Sam and Oli, appreciate your time and also thank you all for listening. We'll be back tomorrow.
- [37:51]
Paige Desorbo
You've been listening to the Athletic FC podcast. The producers were Guy Clark, Mike Stavrou and Jay Beale. The executive producer was Aidi Moorhead. To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free, search for the Athletic on Apple, Spotify and all the usual places. The Athletic FC podcast is an athletic media company production.
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