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- [00:01]
Mom
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- [00:30]
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- [00:56]
Robert Mays
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- [01:24]
Lost Fan
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- [01:28]
Robert Mays
welcome to the Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mays. Night two of the draft is in the books. If you want to hear about every single pick of the second and third round, you can do that on the athletic football show's YouTube channel. You can go back and watch the stream from last night. If you haven't watched streams at all, encourage you to do it. We've got highlight packages for a good chunk of the players drafted like it. I'm not trying to like, you know, pump us up too much. It looks pretty darn good. Like we really have increased a lot of the elements, the production elements of what this stream looks like over the last couple years. The behind the scenes people who I will absolutely be thanking more tomorrow, have done a phenomenal job and so I would encourage you guys to go check it out. Even if you don't normally consume the show on YouTube. It is just a different sort of product than anything else we've ever put in there. So if you want to see our commentary on any of the picks that your team's made, we did talk about every single pick that happened over the first two nights tonight. Just a recap of night two, our favorite picks, the biggest surprises, our favorite hauls, our favorite moment. Spoiler alert. Steven Terrell going to the Falcons moment. That was one of my favorite all time draft clips that I've ever seen. Talked a little bit about our favorite hauls, the pairings we didn't know we needed, and then chatted about the veteran trades that happened on Friday during the draft to round things out. Me, Dane Brugler, Derek Classen, Dave Hellman breaking it all down. Let's get to it right now. Night 2 of the 2026 draft is in the books. Would encourage you guys if you want to hear about literally any of the picks from the top 100. We've talked about every single one of them. There was a stretch where we almost missed a couple, but I got us there. And so if you want to go listen to any analysis about the top 100 picks, you can go watch our entire stream four and a half, five hours on YouTube right now from nights one and two. So this is going to be a truncated version of that analysis. But again, every single pick has a reaction on the athletic football show YouTube channel. So please go take a look at that if you want more in depth analysis for whatever your team did on Friday night. So let's get to just some categories, some way to bucket these picks. Dane and just what we saw on night two of the draft. And let's start just with the best moment of last night because I have an answer. I think we all kind of have a shared answer, something that we did not anticipate for a bunch of reasons. We just didn't think he'd be there in the second round when the Falcons were picking. But Avion Terrell getting picked by the Atlanta Falcons and hugging his brother in that moment, I'll remember that forever. I mean that, that is a draft moment I will remember for as long as I do this.
- [04:10]
Dane Brugler
It's Hollywood script stuff. Like it, that's something. And I didn't, it never even entered my brain until about five minutes before the pick happened as we were kind of going, I'm going through like who makes sense here? And I realized, shoot, Avion Terrell's still here. This, this would be awesome. And there's a seven year difference between the brothers. So they've never played together before on the same team until the NFL. And that's just an amazing thing. Avion Terrell, to me is a top 32 player in this draft. Fell for a certain set of circumstances. The 40 was not great. Injury was a part of that. But so not only do you love it for the Falcons to get a player of this caliber at 48 overall to pair him with AJ, his older brother, it's just, it's a feel good story that also makes a ton of sense football wise.
- [04:58]
Dave Hellman
And you see a lot of these feel good stories in the draft on day three when the stakes are lower. Like this reminds me of a few years ago when Dallas took Deuce Vaughn and his dad Chris worked in the scouting department. Amazing moment. But that's a sixth round, very low stakes.
- [05:14]
Derek Classen
Right?
- [05:14]
Dave Hellman
Not. I mean, the stakes are higher and it's a bigger pick. Avion Terrell is a hell of a football player. I don't, I don't care what the, what the time on his 40 was. He's dealing with a hamstring injury. The guy can play, he forces takeaways. He's got attitude. I like if, if he had no relation to A.J. terrell, I would love that pick.
- [05:35]
Dane Brugler
Right.
- [05:36]
Dave Hellman
So for them to get him there and then also have that mom.
- [05:39]
Derek Classen
Yeah.
- [05:39]
Dave Hellman
Like the, the blend of human interest plus adding a really good football player is really special because it's an incredible moment.
- [05:46]
Derek Classen
Anyway, when your brother's there, when you're getting drafted, like you're. That alone is always going to be really cool. The fact that there's. Even if we're not talking about like draft slots and all that stuff, there's 32 NFL teams. There's a 3% chance that you two end up on the same NFL team. And the fact that I'm sure they thought there was like a small modicum of hope that it could happen and the fact that it happens and they're going to play on the same team and we talked about it during the stream schem, it's an awesome fit. This is a defense that is very aggressive. They let their corners trigger on the ball. That's what both of the Terrell brothers want to do. And so the fact that they're going to get to do it together is really cool. I mean, imagine some of the defenses have gotten really good at celebrating. It seems like the last handful of years being able to have two brothers go and celebrate a pick or two is going to be awesome.
- [06:29]
Robert Mays
I've been with players and they've gotten drafted. I've been in that room. And it is an incredibly special moment independent of any of these things. And I think there's a couple different layers here. One, he slid a little bit. And so you have the disappointment of that and the fact that he lasted longer than he should have. And then for it to come all the way back around to this. None of that shit matters. Right? Like none of that matters in that moment when you realize that you get to play with your brother. And not only day and we were talking about it during the stream. Are they seven years apart? He idolized his brother. And so to have this culmination of everything you've worked for your entire life end in this way where now not only have you reached the level that the person you grew up idolizing has reached, you get to go to work with him. There is something just incredibly cool about that. And you saw the emotions on their face when it happened. Like that realization of not only have I realized a lifelong dream, now I get to go play football with my brother, who is the reason I started doing this in the first place. So that being just the fine point on the end of it in a way that no other NFL player we've ever really seen has had that happen to them. Like brothers had played together but not drafted onto the same team in this way in the same position. It's truly just something that I'll never get over just how cool that was in that moment. And so wanted to sit with that just one more time after we talked about it a lot on the stream.
- [07:49]
Dane Brugler
Yeah. And I think to Dave's point about it, some of these storylines on day three feel manufactured for a television show. You know, and this was not that at all. It's an avion. He's the youngest of four. He grew up in a family of athletes. His two older sisters were college athletes. Obviously his older brother was accomplished at Clemson before he was a first round pick. And he. He plays started playing football because of his older brother. He wanted to be like AJ and to it all come together full circle like this is it really. It said it took a certain set of circumstances. I really wonder how much they actually thought this was possible because I think Avantrel probably thought of himself as a first round pick this entire year. And he knew that, you know, the. The Falcons, you know, weren't going to be maybe a realistic possibility. And it just. It's a good point by you, Roberts. How it's from one minute, it goes from just the letdown of hey, I'm falling.
- [08:50]
Robert Mays
Why.
- [08:50]
Dane Brugler
Why aren't teams calling me and why. Why aren't I being drafted? To go from that to the jubilation of going to join your brother is just awesome.
- [08:59]
Robert Mays
All right, let's get to some of the other picks that really stood out from Friday night. Let's talk about just your favorite pick of night two, your favorite pick of the second and third round. Dave, why don't you kick us off? What's your favorite pick of tonight?
- [09:10]
Dave Hellman
I said at the top of. Of the show of the stream for round two that I was enamored with so many of these edge rushers, and I thought a lot of them would go quickly and they did. And I. I loved a few of them, but I gotta. I gotta start with one of the guys that I love the most. Going to a team where I just make think it makes a hell of a lot of sense, and that's Baltimore snagging Zion Young, where they did just a player. I think the world of a guy who is just going to bring the attitude and the physicality and the effort to the defense. It fits a need for what Baltimore. Baltimore needed. Getting him there with the 13th pick in the second round. And it's funny, I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth a little bit because Baltimore is. They're so famous for doing this of like, letting the name player fall to their slot. And you just assume that it's going to be a big pick because they did it. But I think this is one that makes a hell of a lot of sense, adding him to that pass rush in Baltimore. And I love the player anyway. I would have been excited about the pick no matter where he went, but for him to land there was. Was exciting for me.
- [10:18]
Derek Classen
That would have been on my short list for a lot of those reasons. And also I said a couple of times during our draft shows this year, it's been frustrating that Baltimore had gotten away from this style of a thresher. And so to go back to him, he would have been on my short list for that reason. My actual answer is Kaden McDonald, because that was probably the most irresponsible I got on the entire show.
- [10:36]
Robert Mays
That's also my answer.
- [10:37]
Derek Classen
Yeah, they picked him and I was like, they're going to be the best defensive all time. And I still, I like, kind of believe that. I just. He is. I think anytime we see these nose tackles, we're just like, oh, it's just a guy who's going to command space. But there are always a Couple of them who do give you legitimate ability to like, make explosive plays. You know, I think DJ Reader at his best was a guy like this. Dexter Lawrence is obviously a guy like this, and so it's a high bar. But I think he does have that explosive ability in him.
- [11:04]
Dane Brugler
And credit to the Texans for I, I think prime maneuvering it the right way. Cause they could have taken Katie McDonald in the first round. I think they did the right thing by taking Rutledge where they did. Cuz talking to some, some teams this morning, they were ready to pounce on Rutledge, like with the first couple picks in the, in the second round. So I don't think they would have had a chance at him. But then they move a little, trade up, get ahead of the Giants. And so I think they maneuvered it the right way with both Rutledge and then with, with Katie McDonald in second. That just makes a ton of sense.
- [11:35]
Robert Mays
That's one of mine. I just figured that adding that sort of skill set to that defense, one of the only things they didn't have. And my mind went to that place a lot over the last week or so as we were thinking about probably when we started the on the Clock show with the Texans and it was the first time I had really thought about all the options. Like those shows are fun for that reason. It's like, all right, here are the four different players that could go to Houston. What iteration of the Texans exists on the other side of those four players? And so thinking about defensive tackle, linebacker, just like, what are the tiny little things that could say put that defense over the top. They were already over the top. But the two things that could just
- [12:07]
Derek Classen
take it to a ridiculous level of the 2000 Ravens.
- [12:10]
Robert Mays
Yeah.
- [12:10]
Helpful Local
Yeah.
- [12:11]
Robert Mays
It's just, just like what could make this defense feel even more terrifying. And I think a guy like Kaden McDonald with the skill set that he's bringing is absolutely one of those players.
- [12:20]
Dane Brugler
I kept hearing like, oh, he's not a fit for the Texas.
- [12:23]
Dave Hellman
I don't know.
- [12:23]
Dane Brugler
I never, I, I, I think you drop him in there and it's, you're going to find a way to use him in a way that's going to make everybody else around you better. So yeah, I agree with you. I like that as well. I'm going to go with, for my favorite pick, C.J. allen to the Colts.
- [12:42]
Robert Mays
That was the pairing I didn't know I needed.
- [12:43]
Dane Brugler
There you go. Yeah, I mean, it's another player that probably went later than he expected to go. I thought if we heard this name Thursday night. I would not have been surprised. As a late first round pick, he falls a little bit and right into the lap of the Colts, who obviously linebacker is a big need for them. And I think this is their, their Nick Bolton, their flow scrape linebacker who can read it and play physical. You worry about him a little bit in coverage, yes, but he understands how to play the position. The intangibles are off the charts. And so I think at that point in the draft to get him is a great fit.
- [13:20]
Robert Mays
And they got a fourth round pickback to move back six spots and they came into the draft obviously with less draft capital because of the Sauce Gardner trade. And so not surprising at all to try to see them accumulate more picks and to get an extra fourth and then to come away with C.J. allen, who clearly is just a massive, massive need. And you combine that like you can throw AJ Halsey in there as like the other pick that you would like with the Colts. I mean though, those two guys. And when you consider the state of that roster, they really, really needed players at those two positions. And so I think you have to feel pretty good about what the Colts did today, considering they didn't do anything yesterday.
- [13:53]
Dave Hellman
I was gonna say it's having to wait until Friday night to do anything because of the Gardner trade.
- [13:59]
Robert Mays
Funnily enough, my two picks I really liked is the team on the other side of that T.J. allen trade. I don't like everything the Steelers did tonight, but Jennings, Dunker and. And Jeremy Bernard. Based on what the Steelers have on offense right now on multiple different levels, they needed a starting guard. You know, Dunker kind of gives them some flexibility. After playing tackle in college. You drop him in potentially as your starting left guard. Move Hatano to left tackle. We'll see what a honor short does and how he can play. But you've got an offensive line that. Dave said it last night, baby. We got a stew going potentially with what the Steelers are doing over there. Like, you throw a hambone in there and then you get going. Han Shore is the hambone. And so now we got a couple other pieces that we're adding to that. So I like that a lot.
- [14:41]
Dave Hellman
I'm begging the Steelers to let me be excited about them.
- [14:44]
Robert Mays
I want you so bad. Yeah, I'm trying to be so bad. And it's funny because Bernard is not like an inherently exciting player, but when you combine him with what the Steelers have, I just. This is exactly what they needed last year. Like, they just needed a, an adult, professional receiver. To play next to DK Metcalf, and now they have two with Michael Pittman. And so those two picks, just based on where the Steelers are on offense specifically, I really did like both of those.
- [15:11]
Dane Brugler
Yeah, and dunker, they were able to get in the 90s, so just tremendous value with that pick. But I agree, Bernard might not be the sexiest, most exciting player. He's just a good football player that upgrades that receiver core.
- [15:26]
Robert Mays
All right, before we move on, let's take our first quick break.
- [15:29]
Robert Mays (Personal Story)
So summer's just about here and my older daughter, she just turned five. She keeps asking my wife and I, when are we going on vacation? When are we going on vacation? When are we going on vacation? She knows we're going on vacation. She doesn't know the exact details. She also doesn't know that it already has been planned. It's a great question by her and she's going to get to find out soon enough exactly when and where we are going. As my wife and I were planning that, you think about the fun things. Where you're gonna go, what are you gonna do, what sort of memories you gonna make with your kids, all that. Don't necessarily always want to think about the finances of it, but you have to because that is a necessary element in all of this planning. Monarch is the personal finance app that tracks everything accounts, investments, saving goals and spending. Get your first year of Monarch for half off just $50 with promo code Athletic Football. Most absently tell you what you've already spent. Monarch helps set goals, map out big purchases, and see if you're actually on track before it's too late to adjust. They also have a great bill split feature. You can split the check without the headache. Just scan the receipt, everyone claims what they got and then settles up. No separate app needed. Use code athleticfootballonarch.com to get your first year half off at just $50. That's 50% off your first year at monarch.com with the code Athletic Football. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Life is a journey. Some days feel good and others can feel overwhelming. Whatever's keeping you up at night, it's easy to feel like you have to figure it all out on your own. But the truth is, no one has all the answers and no journey should be taken alone. Having someone with you to listen, to understand and to support you can make all the difference. May is Mental Health Awareness Month, and it's as good an opportunity as ever to check in with yourself and understand where you are right now. BetterHelp therapists work according to a strict code of conduct and are fully licensed in the US BetterHelp does the initial matching work for you so you can focus on your therapy goals. A short questionnaire helps identify your needs and preferences and their 12 years of experience and industry leading match fulfillment rate means they typically get it right the first time. If you aren't happy with your match, switch to a different therapist at any time from their tailored recommendations. With more than 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform, having served more than 6 million people globally. And it works with an average rating of 4.9 out of 5 for a live session based on more than 1.7 million client reviews. You don't have to be on this journey alone. Find support and have someone with you in therapy. Sign up and get 10% off@betterhelp.commays that's betterhelp.com maze Look, I'm a sports media guy and so that means I've got, I don't know, 20, 30 hoodies in my closet. They all serve a purpose, but I want that one that I'm just gonna live in, really live in, on the couch, on a plane, out for a hike, playing with my kids, whatever the case might be. That's the one that I'm looking for. And I finally found one with Pakka. Pakka makes outdoor and lifestyle apparel from Alpaca Fiber, one of the world's most sustainable natural fibers. Their best selling hoodie is softer than cashmere, warmer than wool and breathable. The hoodie is built for real life, thermo regulating, odor, resistant, durable and made to last. Each one is made start to finish in Peru and features an Inca ID that's hand woven by artisans, honoring generations of knowledge and traditional and connecting you closer to where your clothing comes from. Over 250,000 people have picked up the Packa Hoodie. What makes it even better, it's what I said off the top of this ad. The fact that you can wear it really wherever you want to go. It doesn't matter what you're doing. The Packa hoodie is going to be a hoodie that you reach for when you reach for over and over and over again. If you've been thinking up leveling your hoodie game, this is your sign to do it. To grab your Packa hoodie, go to www.pakkaapparel.com that's www.pakaapparel.com.
- [19:14]
Robert Mays
Let's get to our favorite hauls, right? So not just one single pick from tonight. But now we've got two days, 100 picks. Some teams have made upwards of five, six picks already. So Dane, right now, as you're looking at just an overall haul a team has made over the first two days, who sticks out to you?
- [19:30]
Dane Brugler
It's the Browns.
- [19:31]
Robert Mays
For me, the Browns are at the top of my list.
- [19:32]
Dave Hellman
Yeah, I will say I agree they've made so many picks, but even that, it's fine.
- [19:37]
Robert Mays
Beyond that, like the Steelers have made a lot of picks too. I'm not in love with all those.
- [19:41]
Dave Hellman
No, I, I think they are. They're pretty clearly one of the favorites here.
- [19:45]
Dane Brugler
Obviously love what they did. This is, this is my answer last night with Spencer Fano and Casey Concepcion in the first round. But then to come back and to get Denzel Boston with that first pick at 39, which you think about how that complements Concepcion size ball winner, you're sacrificed some speed. But I think that's this type of receiver fits what they're looking for on the outside and upgrade over Cedric Tillman. And then they come back at 58, get back into the second round and get Emmanuel McNeil Warren who we thought could easily have gone in the first. And in one of my mock drafts that I did when I had the Browns and Cowboys trading so the Browns had an extra first round pick. I had them going to McNeil Warren at 24. Just I knew they liked him. I never thought they'd have a chance at him this late at 58. So to get the safety at that point is awesome. And then Austin Barber again address the offensive line with as many just different opportunities as you can. They did it in free agency, they did it via trade and now they did it twice in the top 100 with two versatile guys that can move around, do different things and guys are going to help you right away. These aren't different projects. Talking about Spencer Fano and Austin Barber. These are guys ready to go out of the box and that's exactly what they need.
- [21:03]
Robert Mays
Browns are at the top of my list. Another team I throw out there. I've got several just I knew we'd probably have a little bit of overlap. I really like what the Saints did.
- [21:10]
Dave Hellman
Damn it. That was mine.
- [21:13]
Robert Mays
I really like what the Saints did. I, I the Jordan Tyson thing, we talked about it last night. It's just one of those that in every situation I'm not if, if fair or unfair. If Jordan Tyson the Jets had traded back up into the top 10. Jordan Tyson was a Jet. I'm not sure I Love it to the same degree as I do with him playing with Chris Olave. And I think Derek did a really good job of putting a point on it when they made the pick in the second round. Kristen Miller in this sort of defense and what they're going to ask of their defensive tackles and just I'm going to eat blocks and glass and that is exactly what he does. And then you know Delp is, you know, it's Dave loves him for a reason and I think that tight end room and fantas there, it's a small deal. You put him with Joanne Johnson and you kind of add that like more well rounded skill set into that offense.
- [21:58]
Dave Hellman
Like I don't know how many passes Delp will catch quickly but he's going to do stuff for that offense. They just paid a running back a lot of money. Yep, a lot of reasons to love that.
- [22:07]
Robert Mays
I just, I really, really like that collection of players and the Browns are probably number one. But that Saints hall is just when I look back through them, it was surprising how much I found myself liking it and feeling good about it. Derek, what's your favorite hall so far?
- [22:19]
Derek Classen
Yeah, those were a couple of teams that I thought about. I think for me it's the Giants and I think even if we were just narrowing this down to which day two hall did you like the most? It might. My answer might still be the Giants. Like getting Colton Hood at the I
- [22:31]
Robert Mays
think it was Malachi Fields propaganda.
- [22:33]
Derek Classen
It is. And it's also like I, I liked Colton Hood a good amount. Like this was I, I remember, you know, a couple weeks leading up to the draft it was a lot of either Seahawks fans asking me or going on Seahawks radio and stuff like hey, who are they going to pick at 32 I was like if Colton Hood is there, that feels like a steal. Obviously he falls a little bit further than that to the Giants, but to me he's a starting caliber cornerback. Like I think he's physical. I think his click and close is really good. So I really liked them doing that. And yeah, getting Malachi Fields like I just, I love that kind of player obviously, but I just think a guy who's like 65 and the thing is a lot of those guys who are a little bit too tall for their own good, they tend to be a little bit slow footed. They tend to not have like much bend in their hips. That's just not how I feel about Malachi Fields. I feel like he is pretty fluid for that size. I compared him to Kenny Britt on our Live stream. And I feel that way. And that's. That's not the most exciting player. But in the third round, you would take Kenny Britt's career and like every single time. And so I'm excited about what they did. And then obviously on top of the two top 10 picks they made, I'll
- [23:36]
Dave Hellman
throw in one more because the Saints are my number one answer, but sticking in the division. And I'll. I'll admit sometimes it's just. It's easy to like a class where you understand the vision. And the Bucks are just trying to make it five years ago again. Like, that's. They got their ass kicking D end in the first round with Ruben Bane, which was one of the coups of the first round. And then they're like, well, we need a new linebacker who's going to hit the shit out of everything because Levante David's gone. And we need a new big, fast downfield threat at receiver. So let's get Ted Hurst too. Like, Jason Light was absolutely. Like, let's. We just got to replace the legends that we've lost here over the last few years. And it's easy to understand there's not a whole lot of guesswork about what's going on there.
- [24:19]
Robert Mays
I. The 30 rock bit that I love is they're talking about the priorities at NBC and there's a pie chart and the biggest one is make it 1997 again through science or magic.
- [24:28]
Robert Mays (Personal Story)
Yes.
- [24:28]
Robert Mays
But the Bucs off season priorities is make it 2021 again through science or magic.
- [24:32]
Dave Hellman
Hey, those were some really kickass teams. I don't blame them.
- [24:36]
Robert Mays
I really like teams. We said another team I throw out there, the Chiefs. I'm really interested in what the Chiefs did. My Sir Delaine, you know, Peter woods obviously is a swing, but I think a swing we're taking. And then to go back and get our Mason Thomas in the second round, I think those three players you talk about seeing the vision and like, what it could be for that defense and the pieces they need. I really am excited about them coming away with those three players.
- [24:59]
Dave Hellman
I think there are edges I like more than our Mason Thomas, but what the hell do I know? I mean, he's got some serious juice, which you said, Robert. And if they're right about that, then it's going to work just fine. But it's. I mean, I'll say it one more time. Just the. The gamut of edge rushers that were available on day two and the teams that took them and the visions they had for him I can't wait to watch how that bears out for everybody.
- [25:24]
Robert Mays
The pairing you didn't know you needed, Dane, but now that you see it, you can't unsee it. What is that? From day two of the draft, Aaron
- [25:32]
Dane Brugler
Glenn drafting himself in the second round with d' Angelo Pons. It's just. I love that a small, feisty corner who has speed and will. Will not lay down for anybody. He's. I just. I like the fit. I liked how it kind of just encapsulates what they want to be on that defense. And so that's one I hadn't really thought too much about and. But now that I see it, it's just perfect.
- [26:00]
Derek Classen
I think mine is. And it's. It's actually a player and player pairing for as long as he's on the roster. Jordan Brooks and Jacob Rodriguez is a pairing that I did not know I needed because I just. The Dolphins need so many things that I just did not think the linebacker was necessarily top of mind for them because Tyrell Dodson is not a fantastic player. But I thought he had probably the best year of his career last year playing next to Jordan Brooks. And so with as many other needs that they needed at. They needed guys at corner D line. You could have used more offensive lineman, you know, skill player. Like, they just. I didn't really think that linebacker was going to be top of mind for them. And so for them to get a guy in Jacob Rodriguez who can run around in coverage a little bit, especially like man to man, I think he has that ability. He's a smart player. I think he doesn't really waste space when he's moving downhill in the run game. Pairing that next to, I don't know, the fifth or sixth best off other off ball linebacker in the league. I'm really excited to see how that one plays out.
- [26:54]
Robert Mays
Dave, what do you got?
- [26:55]
Dave Hellman
I would have said this before the big news of the night, which we'll get to before I even knew where Jonathan Garnard was going to. Jake Golday landing in Minnesota. It's just pairing somebody with the right coach in the right situation will make your eyebrows perk up. Because I like Jake Golday. Dan, I know you've been really high on him this whole time. I said on the stream he played edge earlier in college and he still kind of looks like an edge. And I'm nowhere near as smart or imaginative as Brian Flores. And so I'm kind of like, what do you do with this guy? And so he lands in Minnesota. I'm like they've made a couple of those work. Yeah, exactly. I'm like, oh, everything okay, Brian Flores, what do you got up your sleeve? And so for the Vikings to like him enough to take him where they did, knowing who is there and the type of fun stuff that he can use a player like that for got me really excited.
- [27:49]
Robert Mays
C.J. allen was mine. I'll throw up. Markel Bell going to the Eagles just. And if you're going to make a bet on a guy with that type of tools and you know, obviously no more Jeff Stoutland but still a couple guys that who better to learn from than the tackles in that room already. If he's a long term succession plan for Lane Johnson, Logan Jones in Chicago just like makes perfect sense. Schematically like it just. That's. That's one where not at all surprised to see that one. This doesn't fit this category but a team I do want to throw out after looking back through it because two of the guys they drafted are two guys I absolutely loved watching in the process. I like what the Raiders did.
- [28:24]
Dane Brugler
I was just, I was just thinking I meant to mention them for favorite
- [28:28]
Robert Mays
hall because Stukes and Crawford Zun being able to play a bunch of different positions for them Stukes I find such a fun player. And again we've talked a lot about Kieran Crawford. I just. He jumped out every single time I watch Keldrick Falk. He's a guy that I'm betting on what he's bringing in terms of the oomph he can give your pass rush. And so that that hall from the Raiders I really, really do like.
- [28:48]
Dane Brugler
And then. Oh yeah, the quarterback, you know.
- [28:50]
Robert Mays
Yeah, that's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's. It's mostly here. I want to be clear about this. I think one of the reasons that we do this is because so much of the draft is about being surprised. Right. Like so much of the draft and we talk about it with the pairing you didn't know you needed or when we see a guy like Jordan Tyson where now we have seen with Chris Slava and it's like, oh, this makes sense in a way it didn't before when he was just like a theory we've. We didn't have. We'd have to do that with Mendoza. There's no. Like your view of Mendoza doesn't change on draft night. With every single other player, your view of him changes. And so it's just not new or interesting and exciting and so what else are you going to say? We've talked about his fit within the Raiders offense for two months. Like with all these other guys, we're getting to that conversation. And so I do think there's a reason that a guy like that is under talked about when we're doing this sort of stuff. And it's not because Fernando Mendoza isn't worth talking about. It's because we've already had the discussion.
- [29:48]
Dane Brugler
Right.
- [29:48]
Robert Mays
Right. And so just. Just to be clear about that. All right, before we move on, let's take one more quick break.
- [29:58]
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- [32:21]
Robert Mays
This one I think we're gonna have a lot of candidates. Your biggest surprise of day two of the draft Dane was who? You can say more than one.
- [32:30]
Dane Brugler
Well, I'll go positive and negative or just maybe not that binary. But I One of the more surprising parts of the of day two kind of in a good way was a tight end run. Like we, Dave and I have talked about it for months about how strong this tight end class was. There's so many guys. I had draftable grades on so many of these players. And when would that run start? Would it be the third round, Fourth round? It started in the second and we ended up with what, nine tight ends off the board total and it just one after the other. And if it felt like once somebody ripped the band aid off and it was Borkirker who was the first one after the, you know, we thought Sadiq, we thought Stowers and then that was kind of the band aid off and then it just was downhill from there with all these tight ends. The other way was so two. Two players were drafted outside my top 200 and they were both receivers. Caleb Douglas and Xavion Thomas. Just seeing those two guys drafted as early as the top 100 was a surprise for me based off of where I had him graded.
- [33:38]
Robert Mays
I'm, I'm, I really, I, I love just you just like pulling the reins back just like a tiny bit.
- [33:44]
Derek Classen
It's.
- [33:45]
Robert Mays
It's as cruel as he's gonna get here. Look, it's 1108. Anyone else would be punchy, they would let it slip a little bit. They'd be like a little bit crueler, they'd be a little bit looser. That's why he's the goat Dane, like just stops exactly in that moment a way I never would be able to.
- [34:02]
Dane Brugler
I'm not arrogant enough to think that I have both of those guys pegged to a te and there is absolutely a case that I'm wrong on both of them. But it's just, it's still a surprise because even if I am wrong, I just I didn't hear enough buzz about both of these players where I felt like you had to draft them where they did.
- [34:20]
Robert Mays
Yeah.
- [34:21]
Dane Brugler
So that's part of it as well. Just obviously migrate on the player. But then also with some of these players, I know teams are higher on them than me. I didn't hear that type of buzz with these two guys.
- [34:31]
Robert Mays
All right, you ready? Here's the coat. Okay. We mentioned Bayless Jones on the stream. That's fine. If you guys want to do that, we can do that. None of it matters because Ben Johnson is there. That is my one thing and that this is just the case of like being a Chicago Bears fan right now. It's like everything that happened ever no longer matters.
- [34:49]
Derek Classen
See, you are getting punchy because it's
- [34:50]
Robert Mays
11 because of what happened. The other thing is, and this is sometimes when one even like when a front office has like a hot streak or like they're, they're feeling themselves because of how something went. I assume a little bit of that is happening with the Bears drafting offensive pieces and after how it went last year. And so if the cost of letting Ben Johnson kind of be what he is is that Ryan polls has to like throw him a little nugget every once in a while and like you can have the 4:2 guy, I'm willing to live with it for now. Even if it's indefensible at most levels.
- [35:18]
Derek Classen
The Niners do it every year with a running back. Every single year. They just let Kyle Shanahan have his bone and that's going to be that. And then he's going to the third best offense in the league if you're
- [35:28]
Dave Hellman
going to do this. And Xavon Thomas would be my answer for this. There are other candidates, but I just, I, I, I was joking with Dame before we started up the pod. I tried my best not to mention him because he went to my alma mater and I didn't want to be a homer and I just, even if I liked him, I liked him as like a fifth or sixth round guy. I just never thought he would go here. But if you're going to take this chance, chance 4 to 8 speed is a trade like worth trying. And I agree with you. Like Ben, Ben Johnson gives me more confidence than if somebody with a less good coach had, had tried.
- [36:06]
Robert Mays
I don't actually believe that. I just, it's harder for me to get worked up over it. This year has gone Xavion Thomas did
- [36:14]
Dave Hellman
like he lined up in the backfield a lot at lsu. They used him as A gadget guy, he can do all the jet sweep. Like Ben Johnson's salivating thinking about all the goofy reverse trick play bullshit he can do with this guy and maybe it'll work. I'm at least I'm excited to watch him try it anyway.
- [36:31]
Robert Mays
My, my real pushback to this is this team is not in a position where you can be adding like novelty pieces in the third round. Like this team needs corner depth. This team needs defensive line help. This team needs another receiver. That's like a real receiver.
- [36:47]
Dane Brugler
Right?
- [36:47]
Robert Mays
Like, I mean it's you right now you've got Rome and you've got Luther Burton and other than that, like this is a spot that they traded DJ Moore away. Like it. So there's just. Their roster is not in a position where I'm doing like finishing touches with third round picks. Even if there is a little bit of part of me that does believe what I said about Ben Johnson.
- [37:06]
Dave Hellman
I just gotta believe who like what's their next pick? It's like 129 or something like that, right?
- [37:13]
Robert Mays
Yes. So they're there. They're the 29th pick in the fourth round.
- [37:16]
Dave Hellman
He could have been that pick or he could have probably even been with one of the later picks. That's. That's what triple trips me up. And I mean I don't blame the Bears for getting their center. I think you had to prioritize that.
- [37:27]
Robert Mays
That one. Even if it's a little bit of an overdraft. We talked about this on their board. He's going to be significantly higher than he might be on other teams boards because of what his skills are.
- [37:35]
Derek Classen
Well, you see the path of starting with him like sooner rather than later.
- [37:38]
Robert Mays
Yes.
- [37:39]
Dave Hellman
I don't blame, I don't. But having said that, I don't blame a Bears fan for being flummoxed that no edge rushers were added to the team on Friday night. But in Vin we trust even like
- [37:52]
Robert Mays
drafting Jennings Dunker in that spot and having like interior offensive line depth. That's something I prefer to do rather than drafting like a 428 receiver. And like listen, I hope I'm wrong, but that's, that's exact. Because sometimes we do this right where it's just like they shouldn't have done that. And then you can't give me a tangible alternative and it's just like here's a tangible alternative. I rather would have done this. My biggest surprise, I guess, I mean maybe we shouldn't be surprised, but it's kind of like I just, it's hard to get on board with this. Like the Cardinals draft Chase Bessantis in the second round where it's just like, there it is. Good. All right. You went with the, you had again, you had the ice cream for dinner with, with the running back. Now we're making some healthier choices here. And then they come back and draft Carson back with the 65th overall pick and it's like, why? Why? What is he going to be for you with the 65th overall pick? I think part of the benefit of having a Jacoby per set and or Gardner Minshew is that you can survive the season like this. These are your quarterbacks for the, for the year. It's going to be ugly. Deal with it. It's going to be ugly. Like this is a. We have to gesture at the idea of trying in order to appease. Like some weird idea of how we're supposed to attack this year and I just can't get on board with that.
- [39:06]
Derek Classen
It's like letting everyone know that you're trying to solve quarterback, but it's like we all know that you're going to do that next year. Like we, we just don't really have to do this song and dance. It felt like, and I even say that as someone who's like probably the most optimistic on back here, but even then I would have taken a pick like 90.
- [39:21]
Dane Brugler
That's the thing. It's fine to do that on day three, but to do that with the 65th pick, it's tough.
- [39:26]
Robert Mays
Let's play it out again. Would you rather have Kieran Crawford than Carson Beck?
- [39:30]
Dave Hellman
Yes, of course.
- [39:31]
Derek Classen
We said that in the moment.
- [39:32]
Dane Brugler
Especially for that team. Especially for where the Cardinals are in their roster construction and the needs of elsewhere on that roster.
- [39:40]
Dave Hellman
I've heard it kicked around a few times in the lead up to the draft. Not from any one specific place. It's just an idea. Dane, I think you've mentioned something similar again, like the, the business aspect of this, selling tickets, selling jerseys. But also the idea I've heard floated around that the Cardinals are such a distant afterthought in arguably the most competitive division in the NFL and these picks just feel like a desperate attempt to say nuh, we're here too. Seahawks and Rams and Niners be damned.
- [40:13]
Robert Mays
Yeah, Carson Beck is really going to be the thing that does it.
- [40:16]
Dave Hellman
That is. I, I hope that is not any sort of real prevailing sentiment in that building because it's the type of thing that just makes you feel like your team is screwed. As a fan, like if you're making decisions so that you're not an afterthought during what's obviously a rebuilding phase. That's brutal, man.
- [40:35]
Robert Mays
Watch this one. Okay. Among all the tight ends drafted, several of them are overdrafted compared to what your top 300 looks like. Which of those picks do you see the hardest time for? The vision the team has for the player coming to fruition.
- [40:51]
Dane Brugler
Gosh, trying to think of the pairings here.
- [40:55]
Robert Mays
Borgateure to the Jags. Marlon Klein to the Texans, Max Claire to the. To the Rams. Sam Roush to the Bears, Oscar Del to the Saints. Will Kazmark to the Dolphins, Eli Raridan to the Patriots.
- [41:08]
Dane Brugler
I mean, it might be Claire just because of the bodies on that roster in terms of him getting on the field quickly. I don't you have an answer?
- [41:21]
Robert Mays
No, I don't have an answer. I was asking you because I wanted you to. I wanted you to be down on one of the tight end picks. I'm trying to incept you into. Anthony.
- [41:28]
Dave Hellman
He wants you to be mean.
- [41:29]
Dane Brugler
Yeah, no, I'm trying to think of like. Because I think all of them you can understand. Like, I mean, obviously the Dolphins, they needed to do something at tight end and Kazmark, I love that we talked about Delp and the Saints and how that is a fit for an offense that they are trying to put the best roster around. Chuck, you know, Roush will be interesting in with kind of what they want to be on offense. I don't know if I have a great answer for that.
- [41:57]
Robert Mays
Is it Porkisher? I guess probably for as high as he went, but.
- [42:01]
Dane Brugler
But if they draft him that high, I have to believe they plan on putting him out there from day one and making him a part of what they. What they want to be there.
- [42:10]
Robert Mays
Do you believe he can be that? Do you believe he can be a tight end worth drafting? As high as the Jags drafted him,
- [42:15]
Dane Brugler
I think it'll be tough to justify where they drafted him. That doesn't mean that he won't have make an impact for that team, but. Cause he was what, drafted in the 50s?
- [42:28]
Derek Classen
56, I think.
- [42:30]
Robert Mays
26th overall.
- [42:31]
Dane Brugler
Yes.
- [42:31]
Robert Mays
One pick behind Gaby Gabakis.
- [42:33]
Dane Brugler
That, that is someone that. I think even at that point in the draft you expect to be a. A key contributor to what you're going to be on offense.
- [42:41]
Dave Hellman
And he was a higher pick than Britain. Strange. Barely by like five picks. But yeah, that. That's a little surprising to me.
- [42:49]
Dane Brugler
No, it is. So, I mean, I guess, yeah, that would be my answer. In terms of where he was picked and just living up to that. But again, for them to take him where they did, they clearly have some type of vision for how he's going to fit into what they want to be.
- [43:06]
Robert Mays
Dirk, what's your biggest surprise? You haven't given us one yet.
- [43:09]
Derek Classen
Yeah, I just did not think Emmanuel Pregnant was going to fall as far as he did just because there were not a lot of like true guards in this class. There were, I think plenty of guys that people thought that were tackles in college either a little bit short armed or you know, maybe just their body type is going to move into, into inside. And a couple of those guys got obviously drafted between Basantis and Pregnant, but there really were not a lot, a lot of other true guard prospects to come off the board. And so I just did not expect him to last until 88. And I even say that as someone is, you know, I think pregnant was probably expected to go somewhere between 30 and 50 if people were really putting money on it. And so I had questions about him in that range, but I really did not expect him to be almost fallen to day three. I didn't expect that.
- [43:53]
Robert Mays
Very quickly before we get out of here, we had some veteran trades that also impacted the draft tonight. Two thirds to the Minnesota Vikings for Jonathan Granard from Philadelphia. The Eagles give him a four year hundred million dollar deal with about fifty million dollars guaranteed. Which I want to actually look this up, Dave, while we're talking about this, but your initial thoughts about Gurnard going to the Eagles in that deal?
- [44:14]
Dave Hellman
My initial thought really, and I brought this up on the stream is and we knew Granard was for sale. We'd been talking about that for weeks. But the Vikings still dealt a really, really good player. Well, I mean we ranked the edge rushers not that long ago or like we talked about the game changing edge rushers and Grinard for all of us was right outside that tier. Like not, not quite among like the top 10 or so guys, but maybe a rung or a rung and a half down. It's wild to me that the Vikings don't have a GM and signed off on a trade like this. I mean clearly if it's obviously they, they let go of Quesi a while ago. So I think like they were clearly comfortable with this to be shopping him the way that they were. But it's still interesting to me that you make a decision that big without like a decided captain at the helm, you know, and I assume, like I said, I mentioned Jake Golday Like I would assume Brian Flores was relatively on board with this. You get an extra.
- [45:13]
Derek Classen
You get a.
- [45:14]
Dave Hellman
It's a three next year and a three this year, which. So who'd they use that on tonight?
- [45:18]
Robert Mays
The safety.
- [45:19]
Dave Hellman
Oh, Jacobe Thomas, who I love. So this is obviously a grand slam for the Vikings because they just drafted an all pro safety.
- [45:26]
Dane Brugler
My reaction to this is, all right, Dallas Turner.
- [45:30]
Robert Mays
Yeah. Step up.
- [45:31]
Dave Hellman
Yeah, that's a great point.
- [45:32]
Robert Mays
Yep.
- [45:32]
Dave Hellman
And I mean I, I'll be honest, like he didn't even factor into my initial thoughts on that, which it. It. That's not great. And that underlines your point that like now, now is the time if you're going to be that guy. We're giving you an opportunity.
- [45:46]
Derek Classen
And he was better at the second half of last season, but not anywhere near. Like this can be our best pass rusher. And so that, from that perspective, I'm, I'm kind of questioning it. The them not having decision maker thing necessarily. That one's interesting. It just kind of feels like the Gurnard thing was just like the money for them was just going to be kind of weird trying to have to pay him. And so it seemed like that was almost pre decided and predetermined. I think getting 2/3 back for him is a pretty good deal though for them if they already kind of had predetermined that he was probably going to be gone.
- [46:17]
Dave Hellman
I also don't think I, I mean 2/3 for the Eagles. Just thinking, I mean Jalen Phillips just became Will Kacmeric, by the way. Like that. That trades in the books now. And if I'm Philadelphia and I feel like I have a championship level roster, we'll see what happens with A.J. brown. I get that. But they drafted Makai Lemon. They drafted a receiving tight end. I'm doing that for a guy like Jonathan Granard every single time. If I'm Howie Roseman and oh no, we gave up a guy, we gave up a blocking tight end on night two of the draft. I think they can sleep fine.
- [46:50]
Robert Mays
Well, the fun synergy in that is they're going to get a third round compact for Jalen Phillips.
- [46:53]
Dave Hellman
That's a great point.
- [46:54]
Robert Mays
And so they, this is essentially them paying Jalen Phillips but less and the deal that he got. You mentioned this in real time, very similar to the OA deal and I'd
- [47:03]
Derek Classen
rather have, oh, I think comfortably because he gives you more as a run defender. We can hem and ha about who's the better pure pass rusher. I do think Bernard is a more explosive and violent run defender.
- [47:13]
Dave Hellman
The reason I bring up the GM thing too is like the joke at this point is like, if Howie calls, maybe you shouldn't take the. Take it.
- [47:21]
Dane Brugler
Right.
- [47:21]
Dave Hellman
And while who's even, who's hanging up the phone in Minnesota, like, who's even saying, like, maybe this isn't a great idea. But that's a good point though, Derek. That's that their finances make this palatable. Even like they're aware he's a good player. But there are other reasons to do this besides that.
- [47:37]
Robert Mays
The other veteran trade tonight, D. Winters going to the Dallas Cowboys for a 5th round pick. Cowboys picked up a couple extra fifths in one of the trades down that they made. I can get the info on that here in a second.
- [47:46]
Dave Hellman
They picked up two fourths in the trade down that they did with Philly.
- [47:51]
Dane Brugler
Right.
- [47:51]
Dave Hellman
They gave away two fifths. That's right when they traded up for Caleb Downs.
- [47:55]
Robert Mays
So they got fifth round picks that they have. My God.
- [47:57]
Dane Brugler
I think they have three fours, right? Yeah.
- [47:59]
Dave Hellman
If three fours now and they had three fives and I guess they're all gone now.
- [48:03]
Robert Mays
So there you go. But that's fine. I mean it's. Yeah, yeah, they got a couple of picks to move from 20, 23. I. This is one where it's not as exciting to me as the Jordan Brooks thing. I do think it is a worthwhile trade for Dallas, though. It's like we just needed like an adult to play linebacker for us.
- [48:18]
Derek Classen
It's a starting linebacker. And this, to me, this happened really early on in the draft.
- [48:21]
Dave Hellman
Like I think only minutes in.
- [48:23]
Derek Classen
Yeah, a handful of picks had went off the board. And so my initial reaction to this was, you trade a ham sandwich for a guy like Dee Winters, he can start for us if we need him to. If someone we like is there at the back end of the second and we want to trade up or falls to our pick in the third and we want to take him and draft him to be our starting linebacker. Like if, you know, if C.J. allen had fallen a little bit further, if something like that had happened, then, okay, a guy like Dee Winters doesn't stop you from making a move like that, but it gives you insurance that, hey, if there's nobody we like there, then we can go start him. And so I do like the idea of Winters and overshone. That's a lot of speed. We don't know what he's going to be, you know, whenever he comes back, if he can come back healthy. But I at least like that as like the spine of their defense was so bad as recently as a week ago. And so they're. The fact that they've added some bodies there.
- [49:10]
Dave Hellman
Jalen Thompson, Caleb Downs, D Winners. It's a hell of a lot better than it was in February.
- [49:17]
Dane Brugler
D winner started 17 games last year.
- [49:18]
Robert Mays
He didn't.
- [49:19]
Dane Brugler
He had over 100 tackles. I think that's exactly what Dallas needed in just terms serviceable linebacker that is fairly durable is, you know, someone that you can rely on. And that's for right now. That's an upgrade.
- [49:33]
Dave Hellman
And it wasn't always good for sure. But I like he had moments and I think it was that ridiculous Bears game. Remember Bears Niners, where the like obviously a lot of points were scored.
- [49:45]
Derek Classen
50. Yeah.
- [49:46]
Dave Hellman
He like he got, he was, he played a great game that week, I remember. And like the Niners defense was obviously decimated. Like he definitely had some good moments last season.
- [49:55]
Robert Mays
It's a, it's a, it's a creative solution to the problem that had arisen because they got priced out from the other linebackers. KOBE Dean got $12 million a year and $23 million guaranteed to give up a fifth round pick. They're paying Dee Winners $3.7 million this year. Like, he's not as good a player as some of the guys they missed out on in free agency. But if you're trying to find like an acceptable and creative solution to the position they'd found themselves in, this 100% qualifies for Dallas.
- [50:19]
Dave Hellman
Also a fun thing I just learned because it's happening on my timeline right now. Typically you love thinking about just the chaos of getting traded and like you have to move your life across the country. D Winners went to TCU and is moving into a house in Arlington, Texas this weekend. So like he was, he's moving, waiting. He's moving into the Dallas area and when he gets the call that he's been traded to the Cowboys.
- [50:42]
Dane Brugler
So yeah, he's a Texas native so that's awesome for him.
- [50:46]
Dave Hellman
Serendipity.
- [50:47]
Robert Mays
That is all we've got. If you want to hear more about truly any of the picks that happened on Friday night that is available to you on the Athletic Football Show YouTube feed in our live stream from rounds two and three. We will be back today on Saturday going live near the end of this draft. Just be on the lookout for when that is going to happen. But we are not going to be live all day, but we are going to be live at some point on Saturday. So that will be that information will be on our socials. It'll be in the discord, so be on the lookout for that if you want to join us for our recap of day three of the draft. For now, that's all we got. Appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you very soon.
- [51:40]
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- [52:13]
Mom
Hey honey, it's mom. Did you know if we switch to Verizon, we can get four phones for $0 plus four lines for $25 a line? Call me back. Me again. That's just $100 a month for four lines on unlimited welcome. Plus four phones. No trade in needed. Call me. It's Mom. America's best network. Verizon. That's the one we're talking about. I'll send you text.
- [52:34]
Verizon Announcer
America's best network based on root metrics. Best overall Mobile Network Performance US 2nd half 20254 new lines and a limited welcome and auto pay. See verizon.com for details.
- [52:43]
Lost Fan
We're lost and kickoff's coming up. I don't want to miss the lineup. I'm gonna ask that man for directions. Hi there. We're trying to get to the stadium.
- [52:53]
Helpful Local
Well, you're going to take a left at the old oak tree at this here road. Nah, I'm just kidding. Let me get my phone out.
- [52:59]
Lost Fan
How is there signal out here?
- [53:01]
Helpful Local
T Mobile and US Cellular are coming together so the network out here is huge. We get the same great signal as the city, saving a boatload with benefits. And there's a five year price guarantee too. Okay, here's the turn.
- [53:13]
Lost Fan
Actually, can you pull up the way to a T Mobile store?
- [53:17]
T Mobile Announcer
America's best known network just got bigger. Switch to T Mobile today and get built in benefits the other guys leave out. Plus our five year price guarantee. And now T Mobile is available at US Cellular stores in Hermiston. Best mobile network based on analysis by oh, speed test intelligence data. Second half of 2025 bigger network. The combination of T mobile's and US cellular network footprints will enhance the T Mobile network's coverage price guarantee on talk, text and data. Exclusions like taxes and fees apply. Ctobile.com for details.