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The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL
Building the Beast Senior Bowl Recap: Winners, takeaways, and effects on the draft
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- [00:01]
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- [00:31]
Dane Brugler
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- [01:03]
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- [02:26]
Dave
Welcome to a new episode of Building the Beast, an early episod. It is obviously super bowl week. And while we prepare for Patriots and Seahawks, we are getting our Senior bowl recap out of the way. Dane Brugler, our intrepid draft analyst, was in Frisco for the East West Shrine Bowl. He was in Mobile for the Senior Bowl. We got a lot to discuss coming out of the All Star Games. Who impressed? Who won Senior bowl week? Whose stock is up? We're going to hit on all of that as an early primer. Plenty of super bowl week content coming your way in the feed, don't worry. But here at the beginning of the week, as we settle in to San Francisco For Super Bowl 60, a Senior bowl recap episode of Building the Beast, let's jump right into it. Well, Dane, I can use my journalistic skills to deduce that you have traded in the hotel for your home office, which much must mean that the All Star Game circuit has concluded. How were your travels? And I, I got to imagine it's always easier to do this from home base that rather than, you know, setting your your laptop up on the hotel room microwave so you can podcast remote.
- [03:43]
Dane Brugler
Right. And this is also the time of year where I, I question my life choices to live where I do. I landed in Cleveland Thursday night. It was negative 6 degrees without the wind chill. First thing I did, we land. I hit that auto start to my truck on the app, get out to the parking lot just buried in snow. I'll send you a picture. So I love my scouting trips. I love them. But between the ice in Dallas, the cold temps in Mobile because it was chilly sitting there during practice, and then Planet Hoth waiting for me when I got back home, I am more than happy to be back at home base now for a few weeks before hitting the road and going to the combine. But yeah, now, now it's kind of like a tag team tag. You're at your turn. The, the travel now.
- [04:34]
Dave
Yeah, fortunately I get to travel to California for the super bowl where it is, it's actually warm out there. That's my only my saving grace this week has been that everything is cold. Like even Florida froze over over the weekend. So it's not like you could have escaped it. But yeah, hopefully I think the the bay will be a nice change of pace. But before we worry about the super bowl, we are publishing this a day early as the conclusion to this early part of the draft cycle. We got so much Seahawks Patriots content coming to the feed as the week goes. But right now, let's talk about the real game that matters, which was the actual Senior bowl on Saturday afternoon. We previewed it earlier in the week heading into the game. Coming out of it, I thought it would be fun to just hit on guys that jumped out during the game and also guys that just had a good week of practice. You wrote a story about it for the athletic.com just if you want to call them winners, if you want to call them risers, I don't really care how we categorize it, but guys that had a nice week in Mobile and specifically guys that capped it off with a nice day on Saturday at the actual game. This time I am going to start in the cliche place because it was nice to see Garrett Nussmeier on Saturday afternoon. Dane looking like the guy that I remember. I mean, we had so many conversations before his season was shut down of like, okay, well, LSU says he's healthy and, and he says he's healthy, but this does not look like the guy that I remember Saturday at the Senior Bowl. And granted it's a small sample size. I get that he completed 5 of 8 passes for 57 yards, but he look more like the guy we were excited about heading into 2025. And that was nice to see what.
- [06:23]
Dane Brugler
A difference it makes when you're talking about a guy at full health compared to what we saw from Nussmeier during the, during the fall. And we, we know what they said during the season, but I mean, he was, Garrett was very transparent. Talking to him throughout the week about it just didn't feel right. He had the abdominal injury in August and then he tried to play through it and, and he re injured it basically multiple times, which just look at a quarterback and the way he moves his throwing motion, you know, working off platform, all these different movements. And no wonder, you know, he was. He re injured it multiple times because of just what it takes to play the position. And then it ultimately he just got to a point where he had to shut it down. And so clearly he wasn't healthy all season. And that's not a. Just a hall pass and say, well, we'll just wave away the season. And. But I am, you know, watching him this, the senior film, there were a lot of bad habits that he picked up from the injury where he wasn't planting his feet in his delivery, he wasn't using his core to make these throws. Just a lot of mechanical things that were off and different and that really affected his. Not his decision making, but the placement of the throws and exactly the zip that he was putting on some of these throws. So seeing him in live action, in practice and then the game was awesome. Just to see it more look more like that 2024 version that was getting first round grades from NFL teams. So yeah, and I don't think he was the quote unquote winner of the week from the quarterback position. He was the most consistent. I don't think any of these quarterbacks were amazing. It was kind of like last year where you kind of had a stretch to come up with a winner. And I remember for me it was, I think it was Tyler Schuck last year who kind of did the best, but no one really stood out in a big way. It's kind of like that this year. But Nussmire clearly was the most consistent quarterback. You know, he wasn't without some misfires here and there, but was the most consistent of the group. And I think that the, the game is kind of an exclamation point on that with the way he played. Yeah, he had the interception but it was a perfect throw to the tight end that went through his hands.
- [08:35]
Dave
Don't talk to me about that interception. It made me so mad because it was his best throw of the day. And it just clanged off of the Wyoming tight ends hands John Michael Gillenborg. And I just, I was like, come, we're trying to resuscitate Ness's stock here, John Michael. And it's, this is not helping.
- [08:52]
Dane Brugler
Altmeyer had one of those two cats, Merrick just went through his hands. And so yeah, the not all of the receivers, tight ends were helping out the quarterbacks. And that was true during the week as well. But yeah, it was just good to see Nussmeier back out there. I don't think that. So okay, let's shift to what does this mean for Nussmeier moving forward. I don't think that it's okay. Okay, let's put him in first round mocks now. Like I don't think we're talking about that but I do think that anywhere on day two is now a realistic spot. Like for me I feel better. I went in thinking I would have him n the third round. I feel even better about that now and I don't think I'm going to move him up even more. So I, I, I have a third round grade on him. I think that like you think about where Jacoby Brissette was drafted, you think about Mason Rudolph, where he was drafted, Davis Mills, like all these guys were mid third round picks and they went on to be primarily backups who could win games if from time to time, if they needed to. I think that's kind of what Garrett Nussmeier is now. Maybe a team that's desperate for a quarterback feels even higher than that and they take them in the Tyler Schuck range, which is, you know, right around pick 40 or so. I think that's possible. But I see him as more of that third round player who can come in and he can be a high level backup, a guy that brings value to quarterback meetings. And to me, that's the most likely outcome. But based on how he performed this week, you don't want to shut the door on maybe being potentially more than that.
- [10:29]
Dave
It's easy because it was just last year, but I just think Tyler Schuck is such an obvious comp for Garrett Nussmeier. From performing well in this situation to. It's not, not as, as Tyler, but an older prospect. He turns 24 in a month. He was in college for quite some time. And yeah, I, I would hesitate to say that he's jumping into the first round conversations just because of four nice days of practice, but I, I have to believe that day, anywhere on day two is, is on the table. And look, if we get to April and the league insiders of the world are tweeting out cryptic things about, oh, don't, don't be so surprised if this guy's called a lot earlier than you think, because this coaching staff really loves him and I. Absolutely. Okay, so if you're not blown away by, by what you saw at the Senior bowl, this Garrett Nussmeier just strikes me as somebody who's going to get asked to do private workouts galore, where teams that might need a quarterback who want to get a closer look at him are going to fly to Baton Rouge or have him go to them and put him through the gamut. And do I think he'll be a first round pick? Not really, but I think it's on the table. And that sounded crazy heading into Senior bowl week. And if not first round, then, like I said, Tyler Shuck just feels like a very fair starting point where it's like starting on day two all the way up until, you know, pick 90, pick 100. Anywhere in that range. I know it's a wide range, but late Thursday to early Friday would be my guess. And we'll see how the next few months change that as teams try to get a closer look at them.
- [12:10]
Dane Brugler
I think that, you know, obviously quarterback one is set in stone. That's. That's done. Quarterback two and three, I think are up for grabs. And I think it's between those two players. Ty Simpson from Alabama, Garrett Nussmeier from lsu. And again, we're speaking generally because every team's going to have their own order and how they stack these guys. But from a general point of view, I think it's those two guys duking it out for two and three and then, you know, after that we can talk about the Carson Beck's and the Drew Allers and the club, Knicks and Taylor Greens and all the rest of the guys. But I think that, you know, day two, we're talking about those quarterbacks, Ty Simpson, Garrett Nussmeier, I think that's. Teams are going to try and figure them out and figure out, okay, what's the ceiling here? Like, we know you can be backups, but what's your ceiling for us, for our franchise? And the fact that this is just a weak quarterback class is going to help those two players because teams are going to say, like, do we really want to wait till the third round to get them or should we just take them now in the second? And so that'll be interesting to see how that evolves between now and April when things really start to ramp up with the quarterback discussion.
- [13:20]
Dave
Garrett is a situation where I'm, I'm more than happy to put my bias on the table. I have followed him for a long time. I knew who he was when I covered the Cowboys and his dad worked for the Cowboys, he went to lsu, he waited his turn for a long time. And I'm just, I'm happy we can have these conversations because we really, we had to take it off the table in like October because he just didn't look right. And then he eventually gets shut down for the season. You have no idea what that means for his future. So wherever he gets drafted, I'm just happy we can pick these conversations back up and he has some degree of control. Like the, I mean, he already put his best foot forward in Mobile, in my opinion. And now over the course of the next two, three months, you can go about getting somebody to fall in love with you. And the fact that he's back in that spot, which is, it's not where we expected him to be because we had high expectations for the 2025 season, but it's just more in line with what we were hoping for. I'm just, I'm happy he gets to have that back and be part of the normal course of the draft process. It was, it was exciting to see him Like I said in the Senior bowl, look like the quarterback that I remember watching over the last couple of years.
- [14:32]
Dane Brugler
You could tell he was having fun this week in practice, in the games, just being out there feeling more like himself, like that's, you could just see it and it showed in the way he played.
- [14:43]
Dave
All right, we were bound to go long on quarterback, but we're gonna, we're gonna go through every single position. We'll spend, you know, we'll, we'll hit everything. I don't know if we're gonna go as deep on every position as we did on quarterback, but let's just run through this thing. And another guy that had a nice Saturday, Dane, and I'm not, I, I don't make the beast like you, so I'm catching up to your encyclopedic knowledge, but. So Jade Knott of Oklahoma scores a touchdown. He finishes with 42 rushing yards in the Senior Bowl. You mentioned him in your risers list. And I'm watching the broadcast and people point out, oh, this guy was at Cal and he was at Oklahoma and he basically didn't have a 20, 25 season. I mean, he just barely touched the ball and it immediately jogged my memory of watching the Fernando Mendoza Cal Golden Bears. And Jade not was a, a badass for Cal. I mean, he had 3300 scrimmage yards over the course of three years at Cal. He had a 1300 yard rushing season a couple years ago. He was absolutely on my radar at one point during his college career and he goes to OU and just falls off the map. So I'm very intrigued by the week that he had and what it could mean and how NFL evaluators are going to parse through his talent versus the fact that he just could not get the football at Oklahoma over the second half of last season.
- [16:11]
Dane Brugler
Yeah, it's really interesting and I mean, he himself called it his season like kind of a mystery. And he was banged up a lot at Cal. I think we just kind of assumed it was something similar at ou and that was one of the big reasons. But teams are gonna be working overtime to figure that out and make sure they have a firm grasp on why he didn't kind of live up to the potential finishing out at Cal and then at Oklahoma, because, you know, that was, that was a prime opportunity for him to kind of have his, have a, have a breakout as a senior and it just never happened. But I want to give him credit for competing this week and what he did. I mean, I really, when I watch Running backs at the Senior bowl, it's, it's really hard to stand out because in just in the practice setting. But I want to see you in pass protection. I want to see you. Can you stuff some linebackers? Can you hold your own and ride the bull? He did that consistently and that's why for me, he got kind of the winners of the running back because of the way he held up in pass protection. He caught the ball well as well also, but it was the way he blocked. And for a guy that's right around £200, not the biggest guy, his ability to get underneath defenders and get his hands on him, keep him blocked, that really stood out. And so Jayden Ott, Kaylin Black, which awesome. He was I think the only Indiana player to be at the game. So you win a national title and a lot of guys decided not, not to go to the Senior bowl. And I understand it completely, they had.
- [17:39]
Dave
A parade in Bloomington. All right. They had stuff going on 16 game.
- [17:43]
Dane Brugler
Season, like that's a lot to pick up and then just go to Alabama and play an all star game. So I get it why Seurat and those guys did not play in the, in the Senior Bowl. But credit to Caleb Black, who went and had a pretty good week himself, and he's kind of just the bow on top of a tremendous last six months for him. Mike Washington from Arkansas had a good week too. So, yeah, the running backs, while it's hard to stand out, I thought a couple of them really did a nice job.
- [18:10]
Dave
I'm glad you mentioned Washington and Black. We're not judging the guys that didn't go, but that's a real ball is life sort of thing though. Like when you get done with your season and 10 days later you're bowing guys up in Mobile at the Senior Bowl. I'm sure that's going to play well with NFL evaluators.
- [18:27]
Dane Brugler
And that was important for him because it like in the off season. I remember talking to a scout in the summer about going through Indiana's roster and brought up Kaylin Black and he, the scout brought up like how he was kind of trying to think the exact words he used, but it was like, you know, he was a little mopey with the way that he, you know, because he didn't get, he came over from James Madison to Indiana and didn't get the ball much last year. And so he was kind of just not in a good place because he didn't think that the 2024 season went the way that he wanted. And you know, that was reflected and scouts took notice of that. But credit to him for having the senior year that he did over a thousand yards and he was, he was so instrumental to that run Indiana had. He led the team in rushing against Ohio State, against Oregon, against Alabama, against Miami like he the the final four or five games. That was the final run to the national title game. It was Caleb Black who really carried that team in terms of the ground game. And then to go to the Senior bowl and do what he did, I give him a lot of credit.
- [19:36]
Dave
I'm glad you brought up Washington too. I took note immediately when I saw his official Senior bowl weigh in. Is 6 foot 2, 28, it's a big guy and he runs like it. He had a fantastic run in the red zone in the game where he just carried the entire line of scrimmage like an extra eight or nine yards down toward the goal line. Very fun player. I'm excited to watch more of him. As far as receivers go, I think it's obvious if you followed Senior bowl week, but Malachi Fields of Notre Dame feels like he kind of stole the show. Is there anything you wanted to highlight there or anybody else you wanted to give some love to?
- [20:15]
Dane Brugler
Fields had the catch of the week. Obviously that that tailing green moonshot that Fields is able to track correct his route and come down with that diving fingertip grab. Malachi Fields is a big guy and to see him move in person I think really gave, you know, a little more perspective on just how impressive he is. It's not just long striding speed that he builds up. It's short area quickness, it's the ability to snap off a route. And so I think from Malachi Fields a lot of check marks in his in his sky. Report of what scouts wanted to see this week. I thought Kevin Coleman from Missouri, who former top recruit did a really nice job catching everything thrown his way, created some separation. I think he's going to be a really solid mid round pick. Josh Cameron from Baylor, same type of thing and he's built 225 and you feel him with the way he plays through contact at the catch point and then he's got a little bit of juice after the catch. Reggie Virgil from Texas Tech want to give him a shout out for the way he played 6 4, really lean but man, he is so quick in his releases and then he builds up his speed in a really fast way so he can win vertically, create that vertical separation. Reggie Virgil is a guy that his special teams ability I think is going to help him as well. So transfer from Miami of Ohio this past year at Texas Tech was productive for them. And now I think he's got a chance to at least be included in that top 100 conversation. Reggie Virgil helped himself and then have to include Ty Montgomery. Tyrone Montgomery from John Carroll, the D3 standout.
- [21:53]
Dave
I said Ty Montgomery and I had like flashback. I was like, whoa, are we at the 2016 Senior bowl right now?
- [21:59]
Dane Brugler
Yeah.
- [22:01]
Dave
Out of John Carroll.
- [22:02]
Dane Brugler
Yeah. Tyrone Montgomery, who, you know, just. He's an older guy. He's got a crazy background. But the best compliment I can give is he did not look like he was a non division one athlete out there. I mean, he was. His ability to create space in his routes and he. It kind of wore down towards the end of the week. Had a few drops and on day three of practice, but his first two days of practice were awesome.
- [22:27]
Dave
I was really excited to see who you highlighted at tight end, and that would be Nate Boerkerker out of Texas A and M, who I think. I think we talked about him when we just talked about the amount of talent on Texas A and M's roster, but a guy that has jumped out to me when I've watched A and M games and watched A and M tape just because of his blocking ability and his strength and the power that he plays with. And like many college tight ends, his stats are not going to look impressive when you look them up. But that's. That's playing tight end in college and at a time where it really feels like NFL teams are looking for tight ends who can block and then come along as receivers later. Nate Borker fits that description to me where it's like, all right, he might not be the most accomplished receiver heading into the NFL, but if I can get him on the field in multiple tight end sets and count on him as a blocker, the rest of that stuff can come along. And so it was fun for me to read your blurb on him.
- [23:30]
Dane Brugler
Well, and worker's. He was tough to figure out because he was a walk on at Nebraska. Played there five years and had a total of like, I don't know, 19 catches in five years. Like, he just. It's like, okay, why is. Why did it take till now for him to really produce? And even at Texas A and M, it's not like he was, you know, a guy that you would consider a weapon, but he was a solid player who just is kind of good across the board. You know, he is not going to blow you away with the speed, but he can leverage his routes and give the quarterback windows as a blocker. He does a nice job with his pad level and staying square and really driving his legs. And so that, and that showed this week. So, you know, this is a deep tight end group where, you know, at the top you've got Sadiq and then it's okay, who's next? Is it Max Claire from Ohio State, Eli Stowers from Vanderbilt, neither of whom were there at the Senior Bowl. But then after that it's like, okay, what's the order going to be? Because there's a lot of candidates. This is a deep, deep tight end class and I thought Borkicker helped himself in terms of getting towards the top of that next tier of tight ends that you're going to consider somewhere in the third to fifth round range.
- [24:49]
Dave
I think Jackson Hawes is just going to have a lot of teams looking for those sorts of guys, even if they're not sexy draft picks. But that's, he's definitely one of my early candidates for that role.
- [25:01]
Dane Brugler
Yeah, Cuevas from Alabama, Kazmark from Ohio State. Yeah, I mean there's going to be a lot of tight ends that should, you know, kick a, you know, like a half percent over to the Hawes for helping out a little bit in the process.
- [25:16]
Dave
Let's talk about offensive line briefly. I get it. I understand the hype because the clips going around social media, the highlight from Senior Bowl Saturday of Max Iheanacho or the Arizona State offensive tackle. I understand why people are talking about him coming out of this week. My question for you is, is this a situation where, and not to take credit away from him, but are people looking for prospects to get excited about at offensive tackle? Because it's not a very impressive class. Cause that's what it feels like to me, where this guy can go to the Senior bowl, kick ass for a few days. You can find good clips of him on tape playing against the Texas Techs of the world, playing against David Bailey and Romello Height and holding his own. It feels like people are looking for somebody to get excited about in an otherwise disappointing class.
- [26:11]
Dane Brugler
Well, both things can be true. Right where he did play well this week wasn't perfect, especially in the team portion of practice where he had his share of losses. But you see the, the highlights and when he plays at his best and his hands are on time, it looks pretty good because this is a 325 pound athlete who is really coordinated in his movements. He stays balanced at contact, but he's Been playing football for what, like five years? Like he was, you know, he's got a crazy background. Didn't play football in high school. It wasn't until the JUCO level. And so he's come along in a short time. But I still think that there's as well as he played. I don't think this is a player you're, you're going to put into your starting right tackle role on day one and expect him to hold up and everything is going to go, you know, swimmingly. Like, I just don't think that's in the immediate future for him now. Do I think maybe at some point during his rookie year, could he compete for starting snaps? Yeah, I think that's, that's a possibility. But you're drafting, you're drafting him for more of what he's going to give you over the life of the rookie contract and not what he's going to do immediately from day one. And so it was good to see him kind of live up to the potential during the week in Mobile because he was, I liked him a ton over the summer. He was in my early, early top 50 back in August, so it's not like he came out of nowhere. But he had a solid senior year. Wasn't amazing. It wasn't below average. It was solid. And at the Senior bowl it kind of showed what he could do. But again, the, his awareness, his hands, they're. They're still up and down because he's still figuring things out and that's okay. You don't need a guy to be a polished, finished product at this point of their development, especially with his background. But I think it's important context to remember when we figure out, okay, where is he going to be drafted? Because it's not like you immediately put him in the first round because of some of the areas where he still needs a lot of work. But at a certain point in the second round, he absolutely might be worth it. For a team looking at the long term of their roster in 20, 27 and beyond and saying we could, we want to develop a guy like this. And so he helped himself this week.
- [28:30]
Fin AI Representative
Week.
- [28:31]
Dave
That's the classic case, though. I'm interested to see how that goes because I, I understand everything you just said, but if somebody sees the long term vision with him and it's a premium position where there just aren't that many guys that size who can do that stuff, maybe it inflates his draft stock a little bit, but that's definitely a name to know. I would Say behind Nuss Meyer and some of the more, you know, maybe a couple edge rushers, which we'll get to. Definitely one of the short list names to know coming out of the Senior Bowl.
- [29:03]
Dane Brugler
Yeah. And like you were saying, I think that part of it is this is just, it wasn't a good offensive line group and I think that also inflated the defensive line that we'll talk about in a second where all the talk was about the defensive line, which some of it was warranted, but some of it was just, I think a really good defensive line picking on not so great offensive line.
- [29:26]
Dave
Before we get to those guys, anybody on the interior offensive line you want to highlight?
- [29:32]
Dane Brugler
Yeah, I mean, Jalen Farmer from Kentucky I thought stepped in at guard and did a nice job. The Florida center, Jake Slaughter did a nice job. You know, all these guys had their share of losses, but I, I thought that they came back battling and had their share of wins as well. Jennings Dunker from Iowa, who, you know, was a, a feel good story throughout the week because, oh, he's got a mullet and oh, he's got his long red hair and you know, North Dakota State's got one every year and now it's, Iowa's got one this year and like I get it, but he's also a pretty good player. He's, I don't see him staying out of tackle even though he had some good tackle reps. I, I, he's just too stiff for to stay out there a tackle, but I think inside a guard he'll be a solid player.
- [30:13]
Dave
All right, as promised, we are going to get to what was a loaded defensive front at this Senior Bowl. We'll do that right after a quick break.
- [30:22]
Robinhood Representative
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- [34:14]
Dave
Dane, you touched on it this it was a big week for defensive lineman edge rushers in particular. Maybe some of that was because they were picking on a lesser offensive tackle group a little bit. But before we get into the fair aspect of it, I'm just going to confirm my priors. I've unabashedly loved Zion Young during this entire show like from the going back to the beginning of the season and lo and behold he was kicking ass again on Saturday afternoon. I feel like he jumped out every third snap. He had a fumble recovery early in the game. He had a couple TFLs. He was around the quarterback incessantly and I remember we talked about it. I think teams are going to have to do some digging on on his off field history, particularly going back to his time at Michigan State. But what a fun player in terms of rushing the passer. I thought he was outstanding in the Senior Bowl.
- [35:12]
Dane Brugler
I mean he's how you want a defensive end to look. You know, he's over six five, he's over 260 pounds, 33 and a half inch arms. So you know he, he looks like a pro. You know he looks like Michael Clemens. He looks like some of these guys that you see on Sundays. And now he's not going to be a pure speed guy where it's just get off cornering speed, bend flatten to the quarterback. Like that's just not his game. But he's long, he's strong and man he's determined. Like the way he uses his hands, the way he can set up some moves. It's, it's, it just feel like it, it started to blossom this year for him as a senior and that continued during Senior bowl week. So you're looking for a guy that's going to set a firm edge in the run game, you know, he's going to have the way that he uses that, the heavy hands and the strength and the length to open pathways to the pocket. That's what he brings and that's what he showed throughout the week of practice.
- [36:11]
Dave
Another guy that I didn't know as much about who definitely flashed would be Keon Crawford out of Auburn, who I believe you highlighted in your winner's article as well, had a really nice swim move to sack Diego Pavia during the game. Tell me, tell me a little bit more. Cause he definitely, other than the fact that he played on. Played at Auburn, which again, that Auburn team just had so many NFL prospects for how not very good at football they were in 2025. But what else do I need to know about him?
- [36:41]
Dane Brugler
Yeah, and I think that obviously all the eyes were on Keldrick Falk this year at Auburn, but I. It was hard to talk to a scout about Falk without them bringing up Crawford. And I think that obviously that says a lot about him and the way that he was able to jump out this year, you know, he's. It was a little bit undersized and, you know, but he, he told scouts, I'll get over 250, I'll be over 250. And he came out of 251 for the senior bowl, which is what you want to see. The. The frame's impressive because, I mean, in terms of, you know, the way I wish I looked at the beach, like six pack bald up. You and me, Mustard.
- [37:18]
Dave
You and me both, buddy.
- [37:19]
Dane Brugler
Yeah, I mean, look rocked up, man. That's what you want it to look like. And so passes the eye test when you're just looking at him. And then the way he plays, he backs it up. I mean, he, he flies off the edge. He doesn't have the longest arms in the world, so he does feel undersized at times, but, man, the effort is non stop. He competes his butt off. And I think that. But just the way he goes about his business and the way that he competes is something that's going to speak directly to NFL teams and defensive coordinators. So, yeah, I think that he's some. He's helped himself all year, and it didn't stop at the Senior bowl in terms of proving himself to be somewhere in the top four rounds.
- [38:05]
Dave
With apologies to the ACC champion Duke Blue Devils. Yeah, I just didn't watch a lot of Duke football this year. So this is gonna be a, this is gonna be a theme for the rest of this show. Duke players who Jumped out at me. And one of those was Vincent Anthony, which, okay, six five, 246 pounds, looked very impressive. But the other part of this that made me laugh really hard is when I found out he had seven and a half sacks this year. Three of those came in one game against Luke Altmiren. And so of course he gets into the Senior bowl and sacks Luke Altmire, who must have been like, Jesus Christ, this guy again.
- [38:51]
Dane Brugler
Yeah. And yeah, Anthony's. I struggle with him, to be honest with you. Like, I, he, he flashed during the week of practice, no doubt. But just standing next to him during practice, like, he's just a very lean, lean guy, like tall, long, but there's very little definition on his body. And so you do worry, okay, the, the mediocre play strength, how is that going to hold up in the NFL? Especially when, you know, he tries to go speed to power. He is a little tight, I think. So I think it's gonna be tougher for him to win the corner consistently in the NFL. But, and he was also a guy that a lot of offsides, a lot of snap infractions where just, he needs to be a little bit better there. But that's kind of okay, let's get the bad stuff out of the way first. But I, I think that when he does have the get, when he does time up the snap, well, he strides, he can win the corner, he can force quarterback to move his feet. He's very active with his hands. And so, you know, whether it's a chop, a swat, he can discard the hands of blockers, soften the edges and that helps him detach from blockers as well. So I think he's just a guy that, you know, because he's a four year starter. I remember talking to, you know, like three years ago, his name came up as like, oh, watch for this guy. Because he was, he kind of forced his way on the, under the field as a, as a true freshman. Just a really easygoing guy. Like, if, if he wanted to, he could probably run for mayor in Durham and win. Like, he's just really beloved in that community and you know, he's going to be, I think best case for him is probably like an, like an Arden Key type of NFL career where it's, you know, you're a little specialized in what you do, but I, I think there's a right role for you out there.
- [40:41]
Dave
Hey, Arden Key is still playing eight years later. We'll take that every single time. Anybody el know we, we highlighted LT Overton And TJ Parker and Derek Moore heading into the Senior bowl or any other edge guys you wanted to highlight coming out.
- [40:58]
Dane Brugler
All those guys had win. I mean, Derek Moore winning with power. He's one of the more just well rounded players in this draft at that position in terms of playing the edge, in terms of being able to have some juice to get to the quarterback. T.J. parker helped himself. He's trying to get into that first round. He certainly didn't hurt those chances. That long arm that he plays with is legit. And so I thought TJ Parker, who was just did not have the season that a lot of us were thinking he would. For him to bounce back this week was great. Tucker from Western Michigan teams are trying to figure him out. You know, didn't really get much play at Houston, but then he goes to Western Michigan and just blows up. And so he brought the most juice of the group in terms of the way he carries himself, just the energy he brings, but then also that get off and some of the explosiveness. And so I don't think that, you know, Tucker is not going to be a top 100 guy, but I could see him be drafted in the fifth, sixth round and then you look up, you know, two years from now and he's, you know, 11th in the, in the league in sacks or something like that as a designated pass rusher. So, yeah, Tucker is definitely a name to know. Romello Height was solid, Gabe Akis was solid. So yeah, these. We could talk for a long time just about these defensive ends that put on a show during, during the week.
- [42:16]
Dave
That's Nadam Tucker out of Western Michigan for those of y' all following along. Good name to know defensive tackle. I'll try to stop gushing about Caleb Banks, although I did see him put a. Just a filthy spin move on a guy midway through the Senior bowl that just made me stop what I was doing. I think you said it heading into the week that guys his size just aren't supposed to move the way that he moves. And he looked like it being able to get out there. I saw Lee Hunter at a Texas Tech, had such a good week of practice that he stood on it and didn't play in the game, which I think is such a flex. Like if you can just kick that much ass over the course of three days, it's like, no, I'm good. I don't need to risk my health in the game. So great weeks for those two guys. I did want to ask you a guy you highlighted that I'm not or wasn't super familiar with heading into this was Ran Binny out of Michigan.
- [43:12]
Dane Brugler
Yeah, I, I think that it was like he was a really well known recruit coming out of high school and then he goes to Michigan and kind of, you know, waited his time behind Mason Graham and Grant and those guys and like his senior year was supposed to be his breakout. It's supposed to be okay, this is why I'm going to be a top 100 pick. And I don't think he got there necessarily but he still showed enough where you see the trade, you see the ability, get the Senior bowl invite and he was a hard guy to block all week. Both individual one on ones team drills. He did a really nice job just being impactful and so it was quickness, it was hand strength, it was just finding different ways to defeat blocks and make it really hard to keep him blocked. So the balance through contact that he showed, man, I, he's a guy that I thought would be a really good value like fifth round. I'm not sure he makes it that far after what he did this week which is exactly what you're trying to do. So credit to Benny. He, I thought he, he got my top defensive tackle award. Now Caleb Banks I think is going to be. Caleb Banks might be the first defensive tackle drafted period. Not just who was at the Senior bowl but Benny I thought was the most consistent practice to practice, snap to snap with what he did in Mobile.
- [44:32]
Dave
All right, we are going to get to the back seven. We do have to take one more quick break before we do that right after this.
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- [47:51]
Dave
All right Dane, let's talk about these Linebackers, you highlighted it early in the week after one day of practice, and it really felt like Kyle Lewis out of Pittsburgh stole the show for the week. I think it, it feels like a lot of people are hip to a really nice week of practice that he had in Mobile.
- [48:10]
Dane Brugler
Yeah, and Kyle Lewis, I struggled with him coming into the week because he's undersized. There's no way around that. You know, he's under six foot, he's 224 pound. He's not a take on player. And on. You watch the pit film and you don't see a ton of man coverage. You know, like a lot of his impact plays came downhill as a blitzer or, you know, beating blockers to the gap, and there's value in that. But when you project him to the NFL and, you know, you, you question, okay, how does he take on contact? How does he work off. Work off blocks? And the Senior bowl doesn't necessarily show that, that. And so the Senior bowl this week was set up perfectly for Kyle Lewis to shine because it really accentuates, accentuates his strengths, which is speed, quickness, playing really decisive where he doesn't have to worry about contact. It's just make a play go. And you see that anticipation, you see the athleticism. So I don't think it was a surprise that he really stood out both in coverage, one on ones against running backs and tight ends. But it was good to see because again, you didn't see a ton of man coverage on his film at Pitt. So it was good to see him play, you know, tight coverage against those guys, one on ones. But the way that he showed up in team drills, the anticipation, the way that he would break up passes, it just, he was shining throughout the week, and so that was good to see. Jacob Rodriguez from Texas Tech, he was a close second. He had a couple interceptions. It's amazing how the ball finds him, you know, at a certain point, you know, just have to wonder like, you know, is he, you know, have. Have a, a tipster giving him the plays early because he just, he has a feel for what the offense is trying to do and then puts himself in position to go make a play. That was great to see. Brian Betcher from Oregon was awesome. The physicality. Did you see before the, the game, him getting into it with the Tennessee player?
- [50:04]
Dave
Yes, I did. Bryce Betcher. Yeah, he, he was everywhere. He was everywhere during the game as well.
- [50:10]
Dane Brugler
Yeah, like 10 tackles in the game. Like, he's, he's. He's got a touch of insanity. To him. And that's exactly what you want from your linebackers.
- [50:19]
Dave
And I want my linebackers to be like the most unhinged members of my team.
- [50:24]
Dane Brugler
And he's a guy that, you know, he plays linebacker the way he plays center field for the Oregon baseball team where it's aware. You see the awareness, you see the range. You know, he's a gold Glover. He didn't make any errors like the last three years at Oregon and, and that shows in the way he plays football. So yeah, I, those, those three guys aven. Sorry from Arkansas, throw him in there as well. The line, the defensive line kind of ruled the show but the linebackers were kind of right behind them in terms of overall positional winners throughout the week.
- [50:56]
Dave
It was star Thomas out of Tennessee.
- [50:59]
Dane Brugler
That late, late call up. Yeah.
- [51:01]
Dave
Mixed it up with on Saturday. I also wanted to ask you about Xavian, sorry, out of Arkansas.
- [51:09]
Dane Brugler
Who.
- [51:09]
Dave
From the practice film I was able to see, it just looked like his instincts were off the charts. I mean he, he was flying to the football. He was where he needed to be. All over the place and similar to Auburn. I just found myself like watching Mike Washington and Xavian, sorry. And I know he didn't wind up coming out, but your guy, Quincy Rhodes of Arkansas, I just like, why were they two intense. Taylor Green, like very inconsistent player, very up and down and that was on display when he got into the game on Saturday. But like a very talented player. I just found myself looking at Arkansas being like, how were you 2 and 10? Like you have several guys who are going to get drafted during this year's. You know, they're going to hear their names called during this year's draft. I don't get it.
- [51:58]
Dane Brugler
Julian Neil at corner. He's going to be drafted. He was at the Senior bowl as well from Arkansas. But yeah, I mean so he, he's a former five star guy. You know, he, he, he was at Georgia and for like three years and he transferred to Arkansas and you know he had a good year. He had almost 200 tackles over the last two years. So it's not like he was kind of nothing but. Yeah, that Jordan or that Arkansas defense was rough to watch and I think that that played a part in maybe him going under the radar a little bit. But you know, he is a guy that reads his keys and doesn't think twice. He goes and you see him bl box the way he can take on a guard, a pulling guard was fun to watch and just kind of create those 10 car pile ups at the line of scrimmage. So you see the effort, you see the compete skills. I think that he was graded as a maybe a high end, solid backup, that type of player. But he put his best foot forward at the Senior Bowl. To say maybe I'm a little bit more than that.
- [53:01]
Dave
I can't help but think about how one of my favorite linebackers in football went to Arkansas, guy by the name of Dre Greenlaw. Not that going to put that on anybody who hasn't gotten into the league yet. But yeah, just. I don't know, just they were 2 and 10. But maybe that doesn't. That's not a reflection of the talent that they have. Clearly based on what we saw in mobile among the DBs, I think we talked about Chris Johnson out of San Diego State heading into it. You can hit on him if you want to, but the guy I got to start with, Bud, it was a theme. Like I said, the Duke Blue Devils. I'm standing up for my short kings here. Chandler Rivers Senior bowl weigh in at 591 85. So I can already tell you some teams are going to be out for pure sizest reasons. I don't give. A guy is a baller. He contests everything. He didn't look overmatched in anything that I saw of him like during the one on ones that I was able to see. He was mixing it up, he was getting the job done and then he had several nice reps during the game. And maybe I'm biased because I am a short king myself, but I get amped about a 59 guy who is. Who is giving every bit as good as he's taking in Senior bowl practices. It was very exciting for me.
- [54:17]
Dane Brugler
You see the numbers, the measurables, they see them in person and you're just immediately turned off. And then you watch them play and you're pulled right back in. I mean, you're right there.
- [54:28]
Dave
Yes.
- [54:30]
Dane Brugler
Press man. Okay. Transition transitions cleanly. I love the way he annoys receivers. It's, you know, he positions his body well and so he can turn find the football. He reads the quarterback well from depth when he's playing off coverage so he can drive on throws. He's a missile and run support too. Like, he's small, but he plays so much more physical than you would expect for a guy that size. And now he, the. The lack of size does limit the margin for error in terms of him as a tackler. But he will go blow up a screen and he will throw his body around, no question about it. And you Know, talking to scouts, he's like a, you know, he's kind of like a boy scout. He loves to be coached. The mental toughness is there. You know, he's just all about the work. And you know, he's another, we mentioned this with Vincent Anthony, but he's another four year starter at Duke on that defense. A guy that since his freshman year kind of said, hey, I'm, I'm too good, I need to be on the field. And I think that you're right. Some teams are just not going to be, they're not going to be for him. He's not going to be for them because of the size. But when I look at the, the fluid, the fluidity, the foot quickness, the way he can stay attached in coverage, the way he competes at the catch point, even if he does have fewer landing spots than other corners, there's a long NFL career waiting. This guy.
- [55:54]
Dave
Give me the good football players. I don't give a damn. And sure, you're pro. You're not going to draft a 59 corner in the first round. Maybe he'll have to wait a little while to, to hear his name called. Give me the good football players. I don't care. I'll make it work. We will find a role. His. Yeah, I mean he, he made some nice plays, but his attitude and the fearlessness with which he plays was apparent just from half a dozen reps. It, like it, it just jumps out at you and it was really cool to see.
- [56:22]
Dane Brugler
And he, he never missed a game in college, did injury. So like this, yeah, he's a smaller guy, but he played like over 3500 snaps apps in his career. You know, like the resume is really impressive, you know, leading the team and passes defended like it. So the production is there, the, I think the talent is there. It's just you have to make amends with how you feel about the size and you know, be willing to, to overlook that a little bit.
- [56:48]
Dave
Another guy I wanted to highlight and this came up in the conversation we had with Drew Fabianic, who's the director of the Senior bowl heading into practices last week, Jalen Kilgore, which yes, it's easy to draw this through line and it's not fair to the guy, but it's hard not to look at him and think about the nickel who came out of South Carolina last year, who's about to play in the super bowl by the name of Nick Im and worry. And with the success that he's had, I think it would be crazy to think teams aren't going to be hunting for that type of player. And so you look at a guy who's six foot and a half like just shy of six one he played at I, he played up at 2:17, but he was down at 2:11 for the senior Bowl. He can play safety, he's done that before, but predominantly gave looks at nickel in these practices and looks like he's up to it. And when you see what the Seattle Seahawks have done this year and the way they have made it a pain on teams by not substituting out of their nickel personnel now this is a skill set that is going to be in high demand in this and subsequent drafts. And lo and behold, another guy coming out of South Carolina seems to have it. Or am I getting too far ahead of myself?
- [58:04]
Dane Brugler
Well, and it's, it's funny because a Kilgore got on the field I believe initially as a freshman because Emin worry got hurt and so that kind of made cleared a spot for Kilgore and then when Emmanue came back they moved him around and I think that's really the main sell with Kilgore is the versatility. This guy, he like he was a receiver and defensive back and did a lot of things in high school and then he goes to South Carolina and gets on the field immediately. He was a freshman all American and he's been. The ball production is what really stands out with him where it's like double digit passes defended every year, eight interceptions over three years with the Gamecocks. Now I don't think that he's not the physical marvel that em wor was, few people on this planet are. But he, he, that versatility that he brings, that the varying experience, that is something that I think is really going to help him. Now I don't think it helped him stand out necessarily this week at the Senior bowl, but I do think that once he gets to a pro camp and gets coached and they really give him one thing to figure out and worry about, I think he'll be able to come along. And so I don't, I don't see him as a second round pick like Emin worry was. But I do think that somewhere in the middle rounds he's going to get drafted, he'll be a special teamer initially and then somehow they'll find a way to get him on the defense and just find a way to use that size and versatility that's, that's going to.
- [59:31]
Dave
Be the name of the game. And I think Kilt Gore is going to benefit from it, I think. I think a lot of guys with that tweener sort of. Tweener is seen as a perjurative a lot of times, but I just mean like the. The combination of size and athleticism, I think, I think teams are going to be hunting for it for the foreseeable future with what we've seen from some of these guys. Anybody else you wanted to highlight among corners? I've got one more name among safeties, but what about cornerbacks?
- [59:59]
Dane Brugler
No, I mean, Chris Johnson, I want to mention him again because I thought he was the most consistent of the corners throughout the week. San Diego State, you know, you see the size, you see the just how calm and controlled he is in his coverage. No matter what the receiver is doing, it does not affect. Affect how Johnson goes about his business. So he's just. He's one of my favorite players in this draft, and I thought he had a good week. Igbosin was solid for Ohio State. You just. You have to. You have to be okay with that. He's just gonna grab sometimes. That's just who he is. I don't think you're gonna coach it out of him, but you're. You look at that speed and that length, it's going to be interesting after the combine what kind of buzz he has, because for a guy that's that size, with those long arms. Arms and the way he's going to run and test, the buzz is going to be there. And so I'm interested to see just how early Igbonosin can go.
- [60:51]
Dave
The safety I wanted to mention was Bud Clark out of TCU, which, go figure. The guy who had 15 collegiate interceptions got his hands on a lot of footballs at Senior bowl practice.
- [61:04]
Dane Brugler
First time I remember him is from the college football playoffs when they beat Michigan when he had a pick six against JJ McCarthy. That was kind of the first time I really, you know, he was really on my radar. And yeah, he had a lot more interceptions since then, including during Senior bowl week, where you see the range playing, you know, and whether it was as a post safety, whether he was playing more towards the box, more as a nickel in coverage. You see the range that he plays with and he has a nose for the football, no doubt. So he was the. The most consistent in top safety that I think we saw throughout practice.
- [61:37]
Dave
Practice, yeah, that's. He got to TCU in 2020, which we. We've seen that over the years since COVID guys being in school for a while. But in the Time since he became a full time starter over the last four years, starting with that season where they got to the national championship game. 15 picks and 20 PBUs. So yeah, I think you'll take a, I think you'll take a bet on, on production like that. One more guy I wanted to ask you about before we get out of here. You mentioned Ken can. Well, actually. Okay, a couple. No, we can hit the kicker. I was going to ask you about Kansas State Safety V.J. payne.
- [62:16]
Dane Brugler
Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean long, rangy dude because he's, he's every bit of 6, 3, 2, 10. Like he. And there are times where deep coverage, he struggles to hang on, but especially against tight ends, he can match up and he is not. You can't shield him from the ball. You know, he, he plays with quickness and so it was a little bit of a roller coaster for him throughout the week. But if you just watch his highs, you see why teams are pretty interested in what he can bring. So yeah, I think Payne is maybe fourth round. I, I would guess is probably where, you know, the, the average feedback is on him. Some are a little bit higher. Think maybe he can go in the third, some a little bit lower. But I think the average is right about the fourth round and, and seeing the way he moves at that size that you can understand why.
- [63:07]
Dave
No, I'm, I'm legitimately happy. You mentioned the kicker, Drew Stevens out of Iowa.
- [63:11]
Dane Brugler
He had a 50 yard game.
- [63:13]
Robinhood Representative
Right.
- [63:14]
Dave
He crushed a 51 yarder in, in crappy conditions by the way. Like it was cold and windy at the Senior Bowl. Go figure. Iowa's got a good kicker. So if you need, if you need one, maybe Drew Stevens is a name to know.
- [63:29]
Dane Brugler
Yeah, I think that he'll be the probably the top kicker drafted. I don't. We'll. We'll see how combine plays out. But yeah, he had a nice week. The BYU kid was there. He had a nice week as well. So I don't think we're going to see a kicker drafted in the top five rounds this year like we have in the past. But a few of these guys have a shot to get drafted late.
- [63:50]
Dave
We. How, how could I, how could I have almost forgotten about the kickers? We're supposed to turn over every stone on building the beast. I'm glad we did. All right, Dane, that's going to cover us for this week. I'm off to super bowl. But there will be no interruption with the schedule. We will be back next week on the other side of things. So officially next week's episode. There's no more football left for the 2025 season. So tell your friends, tell your co workers if you're if you're looking for football, talk if you're looking for a reason to get excited about the draft. If you need to know what your team needs, we will be here all through the spring. We're looking forward to it. For Dane, I am Dave we'll chat with you all so soon.
- [64:46]
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