Buy or Sell Their Offseasons: Playoff Hopefuls

Summary

The Athletic Football Show: Buy or Sell Their Offseasons – Playoff Hopefuls

Date: May 14, 2026
Hosts: Robert Mays, Derrik Klassen, Dave Helman

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Episode Overview

In this episode, host Robert Mays and co-hosts Derrik Klassen and Dave Helman evaluate the 2026 offseasons of eight NFL teams classified as "playoff hopefuls." These are teams with realistic playoff expectations but who aren’t widely seen as top-tier contenders—at least not according to the current FanDuel Super Bowl odds, which were used to select this tier. The conversation dissects whether each franchise maximized its limited resources, made moves to address key weaknesses, and set itself up for sustainable success or a step back.

The episode's tone is both analytical and conversational, with the hosts frequently challenging each other's optimism or skepticism. Recurring themes include the hard choices teams face in the middle tier, salary cap limitations, juggling expectations against resources, and the impact of single notable moves versus overall depth.

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Table of Contents

1. Key Themes and Philosophy
2. Team-by-Team Breakdown
   • Jacksonville Jaguars
   • Chicago Bears
   • Dallas Cowboys
   • Houston Texans
   • Green Bay Packers
   • Philadelphia Eagles
   • Detroit Lions
   • Denver Broncos
3. Notable Quotes and Standout Moments
4. Timestamps for Each Team
5. Summary and Takeaways

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Key Themes and Philosophy

• Resource Constraints: Nearly every team on this tier worked with reduced cap space or draft capital. The hosts highlight that “doing the best with what you have” is a central judgment metric.
• Living with Past Decisions: Many playoff hopefuls are “paying for the sins of previous offseasons” by needing to double down on current roster constructions or accept limited flexibility.
• Marginal Gains and Coaching Bets: In several cases, teams are betting improvements will come from new coaching voices or development from within rather than big signings or trades.
• Short vs. Long Term: The hosts distinguish between moves that help teams in 2026 and long-term, sustainable roster building.
• Team Identity: There is considerable discussion about whether the moves made reinforce or undermine the current team’s identity and culture.

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Team-by-Team Breakdown

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Jacksonville Jaguars (02:04–16:51)

Offseason Moves:

• Notable additions: Traded for Rukaro, signed Chris Rodriguez. Re-signed Monteric Brown (CB).
• Losses: Devin Lloyd, Travis Etienne (FA).
• Draft Highlights: Nate Borker (TE, 2nd round), Emmanuel Pregnon (OL, 3rd round).
• Resources: Minimal free-agent spending, few draft picks after previous trades.

Analysis:

• Derrik: Sells the offseason, citing a stagnant roster: “It’s just really hard to make the case that this roster is better.” (06:19)
• Dave: Points to cap and draft constraints, but gives credit for “holding on to Anthony Campanelli” (defensive coordinator says, "I would have voted for him for assistant of the year if I had a vote.” [09:09]) and making tough but rational choices.
• Robert: Acknowledges the limitation: “The question is, what would you have liked to have seen them do differently?” (07:25)
• Consensus: Understanding for cap-constrained choices, but skepticism about material improvement. The team is largely treading water and relying on internal growth and health.

Notable Points:

• The Walker Little contract and OL redundancy (“kind of curious when you open the books and look at them”—Robert, 15:56).
• Debate over using a second-rounder on TE Borker when other needs were pressing.

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Chicago Bears (16:51–27:36)

Offseason Moves:

• Additions: Traded for Garrett Bradbury (C), signed Kobe Bryant (CB) and Devin Bush (LB); drafted Dylan Thieman (S, 1st), Logan Jones (C, 2nd), Sam Roush (TE).
• Departures: Tremaine Edmunds [FA], DJ Moore (trade), Drew Dalman (retirement)
• Philosophy: Dealt with serious injuries, shuffled resources, and avoided drastic overpays.

Analysis:

• Dave: Buys the offseason “as a team dealing with some really shit luck.” Applauds their responsiveness to injuries (e.g., Bradbury trade). (17:40)
• Derrik: Also buys long-term flexibility and young core but admits: “The roster right now is probably worse … but for 2027, you should be over the moon.” (20:53)
• Robert: Praises the front office’s “responsible” process and is okay with living with a weaker pass rush for a year.
• Consensus: Sensible, if uninspiring, response to adversity. The team didn’t push unreasonably and is set up to get aggressive in 2027.

Notable Points:

• “I was definitely joking with the Roush thing. Like, I see the vision for it …” (Robert, 22:57)
• Defensive front remains a concern, but there simply was no feasible way to improve it.

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Dallas Cowboys (30:56–42:53)

Offseason Moves:

• Defensive focus: Hired Christian Parker (DC), signed Jalen Thompson, Rashan Gary, D. Winters, Kobe Durant, PJ Locke (S).
• Draft: Caleb Downs (DB, 1st), Malachi Lawrence (DL, 2nd).
• Lost: Osa Odighizuwa, Dante Fowler.
• Minimal offensive movement.

Analysis:

• Derrik: Mild buy, praising the secondary overhaul (“on defense, how can you not buy what they did in the secondary?” 32:02), but expresses concern about unsettled edge and linebacker rooms.
• Dave: Buys with reservations, saying “there’s more wrong here than I’d have liked to admit... it’s going to be on me to fix it.” (33:53)
• Robert: Optimistic, citing the fresh approach via Christian Parker and “pleasantly surprised by how the Cowboys have operated over the last year.” (38:26)
• Consensus: Mostly positive—imperfect but promising. The CB room overhaul and coaching changes are reasons for hope.

Notable Points:

• Lively, relatable analogy: “I bought my house as is...” (Dave, 33:53)
• The panel split on whether Jordan Brooks could “make or break” their defense.
• The “culture of a building” remains a force to be reckoned with (Dave, 38:55).

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Houston Texans (42:53–48:09)

Offseason Moves:

• OL and RB focus: Signed Wyatt Teller, Braden Smith, traded for David Montgomery; brought back Ed Ingram, Christian Kirk.
• Defensive adds: Reed Blankenship (S), Tim Settle (DL), Logan Hall (DL).
• Draft: Keelin Rutledge (1st, OL), Kaden McDonald (2nd, DL).
• Departures: Few core losses, mostly role players.

Analysis:

• Dave: Buys on paper, but warns about offseason optimism vs. reality: “Odds are… it won’t be as good as I can convince myself it looks right now.” (43:29)
• Derrik/Robert: Both buy the vision and philosophical shift toward physicality and “identity,” even if improvement is theoretical.
• Consensus: The strategic thinking is sound—forging an identity, fortifying the OL, and buying stability. But the improvement must show up on the field.

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Green Bay Packers (48:09–56:41)

Offseason Moves:

• Adds: Javon Hargrave (DT), Tyrod Taylor (QB), Zaire Franklin (LB, trade).
• Losses: Quay Walker, Romeo Doubs, Kingsley Enagbare.
• Limited draft capital: Brandon C. Say (CB, 2nd), Chris McClellan (DT, 3rd).

Analysis:

• Derrik: Sells. “Now they are in a position where Jordan Morgan has to start at left tackle, Anthony Belton has to start at right guard...” (50:05)
• Dave: Also sells, emphasizing the injuries to blue-chip players and lack of depth: “Several of their biggest blue chip players... are coming off of really scary injuries.” (51:14)
• Robert: Tries to inject optimism about “load bearing” players, but admits high fragility.
• Consensus: Team is less robust, overly reliant on depth players becoming stars, and paying for previous mistakes.

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Philadelphia Eagles (59:08–68:52)

Offseason Moves:

• Coordinator shift: Sean Manning (OC), replaced legendary OL coach Jeff Stoutland.
• Key trades: Acquired Jonathan Greenard (EDGE), DonTavion Wicks (WR), signed Hollywood Brown (WR), Reek Woolen (CB).
• Presumed Losses: A.J. Brown (trade), Jalen Phillips, Nakobe Dean, Reed Blankenship.
• Draft: Makai Lemon (WR, 1st), Eli Stowers (TE, 2nd).

Analysis:

• Dave: Buys long-term because “I implicitly trust the people making these decisions, aka Howie Roseman.” (60:58)
• Derrik: Praises roster moves but is wary: “I have a hard time buying it overall, at least for 2026, when they have clearly pissed off two of the five most important people in the building.” (63:32)
• Robert: Buys the strategic pivot, seeing the tough choices as necessary for rekindling identity.
• Consensus: Unusual Philly offseason. Elite management and roster calculus, but red flags around losing A.J. Brown and Jeff Stoutland, and possible locker room vibe collapse.

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Detroit Lions (68:52–81:16)

Offseason Moves:

• OL rework: Drafted Blake Miller (1st, tackle, shifting Penei Sewell to LT), signed Cade Mays (C), Larry Borom (depth).
• Defensive depth: Derek Moore (EDGE, 2nd), Roger McCreary (CB), Christian Izien, Chuck Clark.
• Losses: David Montgomery, Aladeen Muhammad, Taylor Decker, Alex Anzalone.

Analysis:

• Derrik: Torn but sells overall due to long-term “sins”—traded too many mid-round picks and now lack mid-tier depth. Believes OL moves are sound (“Hopefully better play around those guards will lift their level of play...”). (71:43)
• Dave: Would have sold except he “really does love what they did at offensive line.” Still sees holes on defense and a drop from juggernaut status.
• Robert: Defends the OL strategy, invoking “the Tristan Wirfs thing” as evidence positional flips can work if the talent is outstanding (71:09). Feels the bet on healthy, physical OL and a new OC is reasonable.
• Consensus: Blueprint is plausible, but roster is thinner and more fragile—midlevel depth is a major issue. The defense, in particular, raises questions.

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Denver Broncos (81:16–88:05)

Offseason Moves:

• One blockbuster: Traded for Jalen Waddle (WR).
• Retained: Key in-house free agents (Alex Singleton, J.K. Dobbins).
• Departures: John Franklin Myers, Dre Greenlaw.
• No draft pick until third round; generally ran it back.

Analysis:

• Dave: Buys enthusiastically, proclaiming: “Honestly, I view the Broncos as a contender. I’m all in.” (82:44)
• Robert: Admits it’s odd to see so little turnover, but finds no grievance with staying the course; depth at a few spots is a mild concern.
• Derrik: Concurs on offense—Waddle is “the perfect receiver to do what they want to do... their offense needed juice.” Defense's depth is a little shaky, especially LB and safety, but the main core remains strong.
• Consensus: Not a flashy offseason, but continuity is justified—if Bo Nix and the OL stay healthy, this could be a 12-win team. The Waddle acquisition is seen as the critical catalyst.

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Notable Quotes and Standout Moments

• Dave on the Bears’ adversity: “I absolutely buy the Bears off season as a, a team dealing with some really shit luck.” (17:40)
• Derrik on the Jaguars: “It's just really hard to make the case that this roster is better.” (06:19)
• Robert on off-season nuance: “What would you have liked to have seen them do differently if you don’t feel like they did enough?” (07:25)
• Dave's house-buying analogy, Cowboys: “I bought my house as is... That's how I feel about the Cowboys, where I'm buying it. But now... that's gonna need to be replaced.” (33:53)
• Discussion of “paying for the sins of past offseasons”—a theme across Jaguars, Packers, Lions, Bears.
• On roster fragility: “All of these guys that used to be depth pieces… now have to be load bearing players.” (Robert, 54:03)
• Derrik on the Eagles: “I have a hard time buying it when they’ve clearly pissed off two of the five most important people in the building…” (63:32)
• Dave on the Broncos: “The Broncos have extended every damn player they like over the last two years. Thank you, Walmart. Smart.” (82:44)

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Timestamps for Each Team

• Jacksonville Jaguars: 02:04–16:51
• Chicago Bears: 16:51–27:36
• Dallas Cowboys: 30:56–42:53
• Houston Texans: 42:53–48:09
• Green Bay Packers: 48:09–56:41
• Philadelphia Eagles: 59:08–68:52
• Detroit Lions: 68:52–81:16
• Denver Broncos: 81:16–88:05

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Summary and Takeaways

• This episode stresses context: Most of these playoff hopefuls lacked the cap room, draft capital, or flexibility of rebuilding teams but couldn’t afford to stand pat.
• Injury luck—or bad luck—was a recurring factor, especially for the Bears and Packers, shaping not just the offseasons but also the hosts’ expectations.
• Front office process receives recurring praise (Chicago, Philly, Denver): Doing the right thing in the face of adversity, even if it means a step back in 2026, is regarded as commendable.
• Depth vs. Star Power dominates much of the analysis: Teams like the Lions and Packers are lauded for their “core seven,” but deep skepticism remains about their ability to withstand injuries or regressions due to depleted depth.
• Strategic Pivots: Several teams (Eagles, Lions, Texans) are consciously redefining their identity as they look to “refresh” their core, for better or worse.
• The Broncos are the outlier, doing little in terms of volume of moves but making a big swing (Waddle trade) while betting on continuity.

Final Word

While there’s no clear-cut winner among these playoff hopefuls, the teams most lauded were those that either handled adversity sensibly (Bears, Broncos), made smart, identity-driven changes (Texans, Cowboys), or embraced the sort of strategic calculation (Eagles, Lions) that can, if not for 2026, pay dividends in coming years. Across the board, the hosts remind listeners that playoff-caliber NFL teams rarely have the freedom of a clean slate—most are working within tight constraints, hoping that staying the course or making a savvy calculation on the margins is enough for one more run.

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Transcript

[Robert Mayes]

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[Dave]

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[Derek]

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[Robert Mayes]

Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mayes continuing our buying or selling off season series today with a group we're calling the playoff hopefuls. We did the rebuilding teams in week one, hit the middle class teams last week. Today it's the teams that were either playoff teams last year or hope to be again but are maybe one not from that group of contenders that we'll talk about next week. A lot of these conversations are about teams that didn't have a ton of wiggle room or a ton of resources this offseason. And that makes sense right when you're talking about teams at the bottom of the barrel. They've got tons of money to throw around. They've often accumulated draft capital. It's easy to see their move from point A to point B in a given off season. It's harder with this group of teams. And so that kind of was in the background a lot of the discussions that we were having today. How do we feel about what these teams did despite the fact that they didn't have a ton to work with? Are they better now and what were the alternatives they could have sought out that they didn't? So a really good set of discussions here with me, Dave and Derek about the playoff hopefuls. Let's get to it right now. We are back buying and selling some off seasons today. Our next eight pack of teams on the docket. We are calling this group the playoff hopefuls. The teams that I think have very realistic playoff expectations even if they're one step down from contender status that already is probably going to be controversial. I will say this right now. We picked these, these eight teams based solely on where they sit in the super bowl odds. I believe it was on FanDuel. So if you have any issues with this, these eight teams being categorized or characterized that way, you guys can take it up who with whoever made up the super bowl odds for FanDuel.

[Dave]

You can couch it however you want, but I'm slightly offended on a couple of these teams behalf. So I can only imagine how their fans are going to feel.

[Robert Mayes]

Inevitably there were going to be two teams left out of the we had 10 teams at the table, right?

[Derek]

Yeah.

[Robert Mayes]

So Derek, there are going to be two teams left out of the contender status and their fan bases were going to be bad no matter who those two teams were. By limiting it to 8, someone was going to get offended. I tried to do it the most scientific way and that is bucketing it based solely on super bowl odds.

[Derek]

Well, and this is the most going to piss everybody off tier because like the tier before this is like some of those teams probably have some hopes for their season but realistically know that it's probably not like a Super bowl year. Every team in this tier there may be a couple of questions but they all mostly believe that they can still be like 10 plus win teams and like make a run if things go right for them.

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Do you want to list them or do you want this to be like a NBA draft style or NBA lottery style reveal?

[Robert Mayes]

I actually like the second one better.

[Ad Host]

Okay.

[Robert Mayes]

I like the second one better. I want to make people wait and see which teams we left off by the end of the podcast and see how pissed off they get. The only team from the last show that I think people might be a little bit annoyed about if you root for that team is maybe the Bengals, that not being in the playoff hopeful category. But Bengals fans, like, search your heart, you know, you know, like what's real. Like it's, it's been a while since they've been a playoff team. Like, you should also be disappointed in them. This is a.

[Derek]

When you miss three times in a row. Yes. When you miss three times in a row, you don't get the benefit of the doubt of like, oh, well, they've got this and got. No, you, you gotta. At a certain point, you've gotta get back there.

[Robert Mayes]

And again, I think that Bengals fans should also want more for their team. And so this being like a little bit of a punishment, like embrace the fact that we just want more for you. That that's why we did it this way.

[Dave]

We've spent plenty of times ascribing very high minded things to the Bengals. So you can't, you can't say we haven't been doing our part.

[Robert Mayes]

Let's start this off with the team at the bottom of the super bowl odds list. And that's. I, that's the order that I did them in. We're going to go from the lowest super bowl odds to the, the best super bowl odds. As we go through these eight teams. The first team is the Jacksonville Jaguars. The Jaguars offseason was not very eventful. Traded for Rukaro, signed Chris Rodriguez in free agency. It's really one of the only things they did in veteran free agency this year. Brought back Monteric Brown on a starting level, corner salary. Lost Devin Lloyd and Travis Hn in free agency in the draft. Also didn't have very many picks. Nate bor in the second round. Emmanuel pregnant in the third round. Derek, are you buying or selling the 2026 Jacksonville Jaguars off season?

[Derek]

I mean, on one hand they were a little bit pinched for resources, which is of their own doing. Right. Like with the, the Hunter trade, they had already spent some of their money, so they didn't really have that much to do this offseason. And some of even what they did do in terms of letting guys go, like, I probably would not have paid Devin Lloyd what he was going to get paid. And so I understand that why they. They let him walk. And I think Ventrell Miller is like, a fine substitute for a year. And so they did a couple of things that I enjoy, like signing Chris Rodriguez as, like, your cheap running back. I totally get that. It's just really hard to make the case that this roster is better. You know what I mean? Like, I just, like, even if I wouldn't have paid Devin Lloyd, you still lose a guy who was a good starter for you and are replacing him with a backup player. I still have a lot of questions about the offensive line. At least there. There's the optimistic spin of, like, maybe Emmanuel pregnant steals a starting job, and maybe a full year of Cole Van Lennon, like, really instituting himself into the system. Maybe that helps you a little bit, but that feels optimistic. And even that I don't know what the ceiling for that is going to be. And so I. It's just hard for me to see how this roster is that much better. Even if, like, a lot of the moves, given their resources, I kind of understand why they did them.

[Robert Mayes]

I think it's a really important place to start this entire show because this is going to be a consistent theme for a lot of the teams we're talking about. When you're discussing the rebuilding teams, or even a team one tier up from that. These are a lot of franchises that are multiple years away from competing, have a lot of excess resources. It's very easy to look at where the Titans were a year ago and look at where they are now and be like, man, the Titans look a lot better because they have so many resources to throw around. Almost every single team we talk about, we're going to talk about today is doing stuff that's a little bit more on the margins. And so I think it's a little bit more difficult and a little bit more nuanced and naughty to get to a good answer with this. And I think at the center of all of these, Dave, it's going to be okay if we're willing to acknowledge that there was limited resources and you only have so much wiggle room, is the team doing the most they can with those resources? And I think the other key question is, what would you have liked to have seen them do differently if they. You don't feel like they did enough? I think just kind of centering it back on that with all of these teams throughout the show is going to be important because they're just different types of conversations than the ones we were having over the last two weeks.

[Dave]

When I went through this exercise, a big part for me is what, what are the expectations? What are you trying to do? And I come away with vastly different opinions about teams that have been in the super bowl recently or have shown a Super bowl type of ceiling in recent years, as opposed to teams who are in a different part of their journ where it's like, okay, am I buying that you're a good team that can make the playoffs, or am I supposed to buy that you have entered into the status of being like a real deal contender, a type of team that we would put at the table that would be a trendy pick to win the super bowl this coming season? I do buy that a Jags are a good team. I don't hate their off season given the cap constraints, given the draft pick constraints. And I would add one of the biggest wins that they've got going for them is just that they held on to Anthony Campanelli and the fact that they get to keep their defensive coordinator, a guy that I would have voted for to win assistant of the year if I had a vote to have him back there working with this defense and this group of guys. You know, if, if you're going to bet on Ventrell Miller and some of these other younger guys, Jalen McLeod, I heard Branson Combs getting some love down in Jacksonville during this off season process. If you're going to bet on somebody bringing that out of them. I love the idea that Anthony Campanelli oversaw Devin Lloyd's All Pro season. So having a coach like that can hopefully even the playing field a little bit. But when you're talking about personnel, I lean more toward what Derek said, that I don't think they are a definitively better roster than they were last year. That doesn't mean they can't be a good team. I mean, I don't, I don't dislike where they are. I would be a little more excited if, if they had found a way to do something more. But I think that's a good point that I'm not sure what it would

[Robert Mayes]

have been that that's what I get back to.

[Dave]

I don't blame them.

[Robert Mayes]

It feels like you are somebody that spends your nights just sitting there looking at the depth chart. And so are there areas of that that you would have liked to have seen them do a little bit more with than they did this spring, even given the constraints that we're talking about here?

[Derek]

I mean, it's hard to find it. Like I think if maybe if they want to, would have wanted to sign one of those like mid tier linebackers instead of a Vontrell Miller, like a, you know, Devin Bush or even whoever it would have been, I guess that would have been okay. But like, I think the defense is mostly fine. I guess cornerback depth now that they don't have Newsom in the building is a little bit of a concern. Like Hunter is coming off a year where he's been injured. Monteric Brown had a nice season, but I think players like that who are a little bit older and have this breakout, you're not 100% certain, especially at a volatile position like corner right, that that's always going to sustain. And so I wonder about that a little bit. But I don't think, given that they did not have a first round pick and given that they didn't have like that much money to throw around. It's not like I looked around at their offseason was like, man, they missed all these opportunities. I kind of just think that this is where they are in their build and with their roster and kind of the fallout of having made the trade for Travis Hunter.

[Dave]

I really don't want to relitigate the Nate Bowker thing. It's wild that a second round tight end has sparked this firestorm of discourse that we've seen.

[Robert Mayes]

Part of it is that he started to run on those guys. And truly, like every single person I've talked to in the league over the last two weeks in talking about the draft and what they thought was notable and you know, the takeaways that they're going to have, so many people have been like, man, that run on day two tight ends was crazy, huh? And so borgate your kind of being the poster child for that and like the symbol of the weirdest moment of draft weekend. And one, I think a lot of people are still trying to get their arms around, I think that's part of why people have kind of fixated on him relative to the other guys. Like we can easily have the same discussion about Marlon Klein as we talk about the Texans in 10 minutes here. But Borkature has kind of been the flashpoint when it comes to this.

[Dave]

So the reason I bring it up is if you're asking me what could the Jags have done differently, I'm not here to say whether Nate Boker is going to be a good or a bad draft pick. But when you make that your first pick of the draft and clearly some people disagreed with it, both of the top centers were on the Board. The Bears took Logan Jones one spot later. Anthony Hill, the incredibly athletic pass rushing linebacker out of Texas, went a few spots after that. There were talented guys they could have drafted that would maybe look like guys who could make a more immediate need for their team or fill a more immediate need for their team than a second tight end in Jacksonville. And that's. There is. There's no right answer to that. You just have to see how that pick ages. I mean, if Nate Bork is the fricking man, great job. If some of these other guys that could have gotten on the field or played a larger role faster get off to great starts in their career, then I imagine James Gladstone's going to answer uncomfy questions about it eventually.

[Robert Mayes]

There are two things I want to bring up before we move on from the Jags. One, Derek is interior, defensive line, and maybe a veteran player in free agency. That's less of a question mark than a guy like Rukaro, where you're paying for maybe an older player or somebody like, I know what I'm getting out of him. Is that an area. Do you think that you could maybe have justified like a mid tier move like that?

[Derek]

Ellis would rather have that at the edge now because they at least drafted

[Robert Mayes]

in the third round in general, was my question just like more, like more front depth and kind of bolstering than they did. They did it, but it was with Ororo, who's a, you know, a young piece that's kind of struggled to find his way in Atlanta. They have multiple draft picks, so I don't think there's a lot of certainty with the depth that they added along the front period. And so I guess. Is there. Is there a version of this where there's a guy maybe you feel a little bit better about? I know what he is in 2026, either on the edge or on the interior.

[Derek]

On the interior, especially at this point, I don't, I don't know who it would be. At least there are edge guys and we talked about this, I think on the last show. Um, there are edge guys that they could still bring in, like AJ Epanessa, I believe is still out there. Derek Barnett is still unsigned. If they want to be this year's Jadevion Clowney team, if they think he has anything left, they could do that, like. But I, I am. Obviously there's concerns about their defensive interior because again, Aurora Row is like more of a finesse player who has really never put it together in terms of somebody who's actually supposed to get into the backfield. I think he struggled to do that. And then they obviously drafted Albert Regis in the third round. Maybe he can give them something. I'm more worried about what the second line of their edge look like in terms of giving them really anything as like a pass rushing unit.

[Robert Mayes]

Looking at it, I think you can make an argument for why they would be better. And I think that's part of why I'm like more accepting of what they did because it's. I do think there's a path to them feeling a little bit different for multiple different reasons. You mentioned this. Derek Van Lannan's going to be the starting left tackle, presumably from the start of the season, rather than something that happened later in the year. You have Travis Hunter hopefully as a starting corner for the whole year this year, if that's. We're going to use him primarily. Jacome Myers is now going to be there from day one. And so now you're receiving Corey, you feel a little bit better about that group. And so I think there is a way for this all to feel a little bit different. Even if they didn't bring in a bunch of new players. What's kind of interesting to me is if you look at where the resources are allocated, there's just redundancies along the offensive line in a way that it's kind of nice to have this sort of safety and protection, but at the same time, is this the best way to use it? Like Walker Little is making $15 million against the cap this year. Is he their swing tackle now? Because Van Lannan is now the starting tackle they drafted pregnant. And you would think, all right, is there a world where he beats out Ezra Cleveland for one of these gigs or he beats out Patrick McCarry for one of those roles? Patrick McCarry and Ezra Cleveland, they're not making nothing like they're mid tier guard contracts, but they've still paid both of those guys. And so they've kind of doubled down in some ways at some of these positions, including an extension for Van Lennon, while some of these other position groups maybe haven't gotten the sort of injection we might like to see. So that allocation of the resources, I understand how it happens, but it is kind of curious when you actually like open the books and look at them

[Derek]

and I think the pregnant pick, like it's fine in the third round, but it's, it's not really an upside swing. Like he's a much older player. I think the idea is you kind of know what you're getting with him. And so the fact that they already have two startable guards and then are doing that, I think again, I don't know who they would have drafted that I would have thought was like a higher upside swing to do that and maybe develop him behind that. But I do think that that part of it is interesting. The Walker, little of it at least, at least this regime didn't sign him to that contract. Right. And so there is a world where they could have traded him potentially and gotten him off the roster, gotten him off the books that way. But I at least don't want to kill them that much for that because they're not the ones who, who signed him to that deal initially.

[Robert Mayes]

And they kind of stumble into the Van Lan thing last year as the best decision for them. And so I, again, I understand how it happens. And there's a chance, I mean, you hang on to walker little at 15 million and you, somebody gets hurt in training camp and you can get something for him because he's a playable guy at that spot. All right, let's move on to the next one here. The Chicago Bears, their big signings this spring, Kobe Bryant and Devin Bush. In free agency, they lost Tremaine Edmonds, brought in Neville Gallimore, traded for Garrett Bradbury, also lost DJ Moore and obviously Drew Dman retires in the draft. Bring in Dylan Thieman at safety in the first round, Logan Jones at center in the second round, another tight end in the third round, and Sam Roush and then drafted Xavian Thomas as well in round three. They originally had those two second round picks and then moved back a couple times. Dave, are you buying or selling the 2026 Chicago Bears off season?

[Dave]

This goes back to my point from the top of the show and I've said this a dozen times. I absolutely buy the Bears off season as a, a team dealing with some really shit luck. Cause that's the number one thing that I think you should commend the Bears for.

[Robert Mayes]

Thank you.

[Dave]

I. It was, it's a tough blow. It's a tough blow to lose a guy one year into a $42 million deal who was playing up to that contract.

[Robert Mayes]

And I think that you get, I mean this, it's not quite lit to this degree because other teams are dealing with this as well. But like having Chapilo tear his patella tenant or whatever it was late in the season, like you can't account for that at a multi year level as you're building the team similar to like what Carolina had to deal with. There's a lot of teams dealing with the fallout of those sorts of injuries.

[Dave]

I think the Bears have done a commendable job overcoming that shit luck because to trade for Garrett Bradbury ahead of free agency opening and remove yourself from the spending spree at center and then still get a center that you really, really like in Jones, that's about as good a job as you could ask a team to do dealing with a completely unforeseeable variable.

[Robert Mayes]

I agree with that.

[Dave]

And on top of that, I'm not trying to sell anybody super hard on it, but Jedrick Wills as a super buy low hope for the best lottery ticket at left tackle in addition to your other options as well as bringing back Braxton Jones. I'm just like, great, you caught some shit luck there too. And I feel as though you've put yourself in a decent position considering you lost the guy you would prefer late late in the year.

[Robert Mayes]

I was curious what they would do with that left tackle spot beyond bringing back Braxton Jones. And I think the difference between this and the Carolina situation is that Icky Quan is in the last year of his deal. So the idea that, well, he'd be back for 2027 matters less to Carolina. Like they, they might not have him as an option. Trappillo this I think gives you an indication he will be back in 2027. And so they could just do the $5 million band aid option that Carolina did do before they drafted Freeling in the first round.

[Dave]

The other thing, DJ Moore, good player, frustrating player at times. And you have young guys like Luther Burden and Colston Loveland come on during their rookie years, turning DJ Moore, if you've decided that you're done with that, turning DJ Moore into the opportunity to go add three young players to your team. Because if I'm tracking it right, DJ Moore turned into Sam Roush, Malik Muhammad and Keshawn Elliott, I believe. And so to get three young guys, particularly the super athletic tight end, I mean you say another tight end and I'm like, oh, I'm not upset about it.

[Robert Mayes]

Another let's go. I do think it makes sense for like what they need. They did need a third tight end and this might be like Comet's last year in the team.

[Dave]

So for what they were working with, and again I've said this a dozen times too, is I just, I don't think the Bears need to win the super bowl this year. And so I don't view them that way. And I'm like, okay, if you're responsible, possibly taking Another step into the Ben Johnson era, dealing with some shit luck and fortifying yourself to have more spending money next year. And next year can be the year you get a little more aggressive with it. I think that's fine. If you think the Bears need to be in the super bowl this year, then I get it if you're selling this off season. But that's just not where I think they are. And so I'm. I'm more willing to buy what they've done here.

[Derek]

Yeah, I. I think Dave absolutely nailed it. Like, if you're. If you're excited about the Bears for 2027 and 2028 and looking at the flexibility they have, the money, the young core that they have, you should be, like, over the moon at where this thing is at. But I also think the roster right now is probably worse, a little bit than it was in 2025, or at least I think it's harder to make the argument that it's improved. And again, some of that is luck, like the Tropillo injury, Dalman retiring. And the Dalman retiring thing is like the perfect encapsulation of their off season, where it's like, it's just kind of bad luck that you ended up in this spot that he retires. But then they do all the right things to fix it.

[Robert Mayes]

Right.

[Derek]

Like, you get a playable center for a cheap trade, and then you draft a guy in the third round that you like and can hopefully again in 2027 or 2028, take over that job and you'll be fine. I just think that this was a roster where we knew that they won in. Kind of unsustainable. Feels wrong, but it was a little bit unsustainable.

[Robert Mayes]

Like, they were. Nothing wrong with saying that.

[Derek]

Yeah, like, low success rate, winning a lot of these games late, all this stuff. And there's a chance that because it's all young players that you bake in some improvement. Right. But I think that part of the other side of that was, like, the defense was failing them consistently. And I just. I think there's reason to be excited about this changes at safety. But it's not like last year's safeties were bad. Those guys gave them decent stuff. It's just going to be a very new unit that I think we're going to see how the chemistry plays out. But I'm just not sure that the rest of the defense is any better, even if they've added some okay depth pieces. So this is a team where I think I love where this is going. The three year outlook for 2026. I'm not sure it's better, but to Dave's point, like, that's okay. Like, if this team doesn't win the super bowl today, that's. That's fine.

[Dave]

I also would add, lest you think I'm being too patronizing, I absolutely think the Bears can win the NFC North. I think this team is capable of. Maybe the record won't be as good, but I think they're capable of doing it again. I still think this is a good team. I just don't know that the Bears have taken some kind of meaningful step into being part of the NFL's elite class.

[Robert Mayes]

On offense. I think you can get behind every single thing that they did, and I do think they did a good job of kind of putting out some of the smaller fires that occurred because of just pure luck things and things that there's no way you could foresee. I think they're in a really good spot. And I. I was definitely joking with the Roush thing. Like, I see the vision for it and I actually really like a lot of the way that's coming together.

[Dave]

He's fun, the D.J.

[Robert Mayes]

more part of this is like, D.J. moore just strike. They were paying him. Like, that's truly it. And so I do think the team is worse without DJ Moore. I just think it was the right move to trade DJ Moore and move some of those, move some of that money around again. I just think that that was the right way to approach it. Even if I do think that DJ Moore is a player worth having. And by the way, they felt that way, it wasn't a situation where they're like, man, we got to get this guy off the roster. It was. If you look at what he's being paid, what we're investing him in, what his role is within the offense. It just makes sense to do this. The defense. I'll. I'll say two different things. One, I do think there is a path to the defense being much better, even with only adding those two safeties. Derek, I feel like the types of safeties they added and the potential range it gives you makes the back end feel a little bit different. And with the secondary specifically, I just think it's really important to remember that Jalen Johnson and Kyler Gordon did not play last season as like, real versions of themselves at any single point. And so I think the corner play will be better. I think if I'm trying to find one area where this just whole thing leaves me cold, it's the fact that for the most part, the front is going to be the same group of players it was last year and there are different layers to that. Right. Austin Booker and Dyo Dangbo never played together. By the time Booker came back, Odangbo was hurt. So now even if you're frustrated with Odengbo, he's going to be in the mix there and with Austin Booker. Shamar Turner played 70 snaps last year as like a second round pick. And so getting him back and healthy, hopefully that's one more player to kind of throw at this. I just think overall, I look at the front and I'm like, I still can't get excited about this group, but I understand how you arrive here. You don't have much money to throw around. You've committed financially to so many of these guys that you kind of just have to live with it for another year. And then when you go into 20, 27, that's when you'll be able to move on from Odangbo if you want to, move on from Jared if you want to, move on from TJ Edwards if you want to. And that's when you could potentially take a big swing and even some of the mid tier swings that were available this year up front in free agency. Who did you want? Like, they couldn't afford a Trey Hendrickson, they couldn't afford a Jalen Phillips. I don't think Odafi always fits what this defense is like, do you want to go pay $20 million a year for Boy Mafe when you don't have any money? Would that have solved this? I don't even think they could have done not.

[Derek]

Yeah.

[Robert Mayes]

And so it's, it's a frustrating place to land. When you look at the front and you just know in your bones it's still probably not good enough. But at the same time, I don't know how frustrated you can get about the process that led them here, specifically this spring. Because what they're really doing is they're paying for the sins of previous off seasons by having to live with this group again.

[Derek]

And there are a handful of teams on here who are like that. Right where it's like their off seasons ended up where they are because of what they had done in previous years. We're, I mean, we literally just talked about that with the Jaguars and the Hunter trade.

[Dave]

This is my recurring point. I would way rather try it this way. And I agree with you. If Dylan Thieman is a capital D dude, the secondary could be pretty sick.

[Robert Mayes]

And I, I mean, I'M hoping that Kyler Gordon and Jalen Johnson. I mean, there's no.

[Dave]

They would need to be healthy as well.

[Robert Mayes]

The health is obviously the biggest part of that.

[Dave]

But if. If the secondary's sick and Ben Johnson said they need to coach the front better, we'll see what that means.

[Robert Mayes]

I was going to bring that up. That, to me, is such an unsatisfying thing where it's like, why is the front going to be better? Because we're going to coach them better is just. That's a tough thing to hear.

[Dave]

At the end of the day, I would still rather. I would rather do it this way. And maybe your secondary is great, and maybe you get a little bit more out of the front. Maybe you're a little healthier. I'd rather do that than do something reckless. Because you thought you were close. I mean, like, Bears fans here in Chicago wanted Max Crosby when that was still on the table, regardless of how realistic it actually is with their finances. I would rather try it this way. And then Grady Jarrett could be gone next year. Diodango Odangbo could be gone next year. If you wanted to, you could move on from Montez sweat early as well and save up a ton of money. And then, like I said, that would

[Robert Mayes]

feel like one step back.

[Dave]

Regardless. Regardless, you. You have paths to get aggressive next year. And I just. I think this is the responsible way to play it, even if it's less exciting.

[Robert Mayes]

Yeah, that's. You're going to have to be sitting there telling me that as I watch this team never be able to get after the quarterback the entire season.

[Dave]

Think about how much is this.

[Robert Mayes]

Was this the responsible path? Dave? I'm really enjoying the responsible path.

[Dave]

Think about how much fun we had watching that Bengals game. It's unbelievable.

[Robert Mayes]

I don't want to live like that every single week. I really don't. All right, let's take our first quick break and then come back and chat a little bit about the Dallas Cowboys.

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[Robert Mayes]

Right now you're probably listening to this podcast on a wireless network. The same wireless network you swipe, scroll and hopefully download the latest episode of the Athletic Football show on. But if you're a first responder, you shouldn't have to compete with myvoice to get a clear signal. That's why there's a clear wireless lane built with and for first responders. So in an emergency, first responders get there first because a network that's not just for anyone helps everyone. To learn more, go to firstnet.com or visit an AT&T store for details. Cowboys had an eventful off season, hired Christian Parker as their defensive coordinator. Additions, most of them on defense. All of them on defense. Jalen Thompson, Rashan Gary D. Winters, Kobe Durant, PJ Lock in there as safety depth in the draft. Caleb Downs, Malachi Lawrence and Deshai Barham. Barham in the third round who's presumably going to play off ball linebacker. They lost Oso Digizua and Dante Fowler. Derek, are you buying or selling the 2026 Cowboys off season?

[Derek]

Think I'm buying it. But like this was one where I think as a lot of the things were happening in the moment, I was like, man, I'm so in on the Cowboys. And then I kind of looked at it in totality and I'm more just closer to like 55% buying it. 45% not. Because I think, you know, we talk the offense, I think is a pretty simple discussion. It's mostly going to be the same guys, but they were, they were a top 10 unit last year, arguably even better than that, especially when they had their left tackle for stretches. And so I think I'm not that worried about that. I know we've talked about other teams not doing a whole lot on offense and taking a step back, but this is a lot of proven veterans and a lot of proven guys. I think that they're going to be fine on defense. How can you not buy what they did in the secondary, right? Like one you Bring in a coach like Christian Parker, who, his whole thing is secondary, but he's also supposed to be one of these up and coming play callers. You get Caleb down. So I think purely on film was probably the best prospect that you were going to get in this class. I think he's incredibly sharp. Obviously he's going to play. It seems like a lot of the nickel for them. They bring in Jalen Thompson, who I think is good. The moves up front, I think I had a harder time buying. And it's not even necessarily that I hated any of. It's like, I just. The picture did not come together to me the way that I wanted. Like Rashawn Garry. I get why they needed a body. They're paying a lot for a player who has not played up to like, at least a Pro bowl level in a couple of years. Now Malachi Lawrence, I know he's a draft pick. He could be anything. I was not as high on him where they took him in the draft, and so it's harder for me to get the clear picture there. And then De Winters is an upgrade, but DE Winters is not. I think. I think again, Dave and I had visions of Jordan Brooks, and he is not Jordan Brooks.

[Dave]

I think it's not over yet, bud.

[Derek]

That's true. They could still do it, and they should. If they do, I'll revisit this. But for now, I just. Where I'm at with the defenses, I think they'll be better. And I like the vision. I still think the front does need a lot of work.

[Dave]

I shouldn't. I shouldn't admit such personal details about my life, but I bought my house as is. I didn't want to get into a bidding war with people, and we had, like, a certain amount of budget. And I also didn't want to go through, like, weeks of negotiations. And we felt good about it. Like, you get an inspection done, you feel good about it, and you're like, okay, there's nothing terribly wrong with this place. We'll put in an offer as is. And it worked. Like, we, We. We skipped through a lot of bullshit. We got the house and it's super exciting and everything's fine, just for the record. But then when you get the house and you bought it as is, you're like, okay, so that's gonna need to be replaced. If not now, then in a year or two. And the fence is kind of moldy. That's. I'm gonna have to do that. And like, whatever you find that's wrong with the House. And it, it's a, it, it can be a little scary. And that's how I feel about the Cowboys, where I'm buying it. But now that I've got it, I'm like, yeah, there's more, there's more wrong here than I would have liked to admit, and it's going to be on me to fix it. Like, they're, they're definitely a buy. I don't think it's actually as good as it looks when you get excited about it in the off season. I, I, I don't think Rashawn Gary and Malachi Lawrence right now are like a meaningful fix to the pass rush. I don't think the linebacker depth chart is good enough right now unless they were to actually pull off a trade for Jordan Brooks. Anytime you do nothing substantial on one side of the ball, it's worth highlighting. I don't completely buy. I know he signed his franchise tag. I don't completely buy that we're done with the George Pickens saga because this is the Dallas Cowboys and some shit's always going to crop up. I don't know what the benefit would be to holding out after you sign your tag, but it's not Cowboys training camp until there's some bullshit drama we have to follow. So I've been around the block a few too many times to think we've heard the last of this, so I buy it. I'm interested to watch the Cowboys this year. I don't think the totality of everything is as good as it looked when you were walking around in March looking at everything like, yeah, this is great.

[Robert Mayes]

I'm buying it.

[Derek]

Okay, you're still there.

[Dave]

Okay, get in there.

[Robert Mayes]

I, I totally hear everything you guys are saying, I guess with the, with the Rashan Gary thing specifically. Is there something else you would have liked this, like, to have seen them done up front, Derek, that they didn't do? Like, is there an alternative out there that you would have liked more than the combination of Rashan and the Rashan Gary thing? They're paying him $16 million a year. Like, it's two years. 32 million for Rashawn Gary. That's quitty pay money. That's not a, did they not also

[Derek]

trade for him, though?

[Robert Mayes]

So they traded a fourth round trade.

[Dave]

A fourth.

[Robert Mayes]

Yeah. And so that's those two things. And I, that is worth acknowledging.

[Derek]

It's not insane capital, but it's at least something.

[Robert Mayes]

But it's, it's a 27, 27 fourth. And most people aren't willing to trade or weren't willing to trade 20, 27 draft picks. And so I think that's at least worth acknowledging, but it's not a crazy amount of money. And so I think overall what they did to reshape the defense without a ton of resources, right. I mean they had some, but this is still a very expensive roster in part because of everything that you're paying to the offense. And so I think making sure that they fixed the secondary as best as they could. And I, I think a lot of the moves they made in the secondary, including the depth pieces, they've completely remade this thing in a way that I think you can get behind. We talked about Kobe Durant earlier this week when we were discussing the Rams moving off from Komi Durant, completely remaking their cornerback room. He's a perfectly acceptable option. A team like the Cowboys based on where they are so that Jalen Thompson, Caleb Downs, PJ Lock is now your third safety and you do enough up front. Hopefully a lot of this hinges on Malachi Lawrence, but based on all the resources they had and where they ended up, I think I'm okay with the roster moves on defense. This is a lot just me having a lot of faith in Christian Parker and make me thinking this is the right choice. And I think part of this and why I'm buying the Cowboys path overall is that I'm so pleasantly surprised by how the Dallas Cowboys have operated over the last year or so. And a lot of the, like, behind the scenes hiring practices, the mindset, a lot of the things that they've done are things that I would have liked to have seen them do for a while. Like, I do think that there have been moments over the last two or three years when I've thought to myself like, does this team actually want to win?

[Derek]

Like based on what Cowboys hater do

[Robert Mayes]

they actually want to win? And I was very open about that and I you look at what they've done over the last couple off seasons, the hires they've made, the coaching staff that they've built, and you combine that with some of the stuff they did this year and the fact that they are pushing their chips in a little bit, I'm buying this version of the Cowboys. It's imperfect and I do think that there are still questions about the defensive roster, but based on where they started and where they are now, from January 1st to this moment, I can get on board with what the Cowboys have done.

[Dave]

I don't think you can ever completely override the culture of a building when Ownership is as involved in the day to day roster building as the Jones family is. I think Brian Schottenheimer's trying his damnedest to do that and the results are there. I and I want to be clear, I'm in on this in the big picture. But talking about the Cowboys from where they were last year, making meaningful, meaningful strides to potentially winning the division, being in the playoffs, that is a big jump and it's scary to think that they've pulled that off. I feel good about some of this. I don't think they're quite as good as they need to be. I don't. I can't get all the way there. I It would do wonders for me if come June they really do swing a trade for Jordan Brooks, which I think is at least still a possibility, if not a likelihood.

[Robert Mayes]

I guess that part of it is

[Dave]

this is a nice first step, though

[Robert Mayes]

that's not going to make or break it to me. Like the upgrading from Dee Winters to Jordan Brooks or Demarian overshone to Jordan Brooks. That's not what's going to make it break it to me.

[Derek]

Linebacker in this defense kind of does make it or break it to me a little bit. I think that that goes a long way. In the Fangio defense. I think that that goes a long way.

[Dave]

One and I know we based this on the odds. This is not a criticism of you, Robert, but like just looking at the exercise where we have the Cowboys bucketed it, it's kind of bullshit that the Cowboys would be here and the Bengals are back in the middle class. I guess that's kind of where I sit with it, where I'm like to. To throw the Cowboys up into playoff contender status after where they've been the last couple years is it's. They're. They're being fast tracked. I don't know that what they've done coincides with that sort of discourse about them. Even if I do feel good about where they are.

[Robert Mayes]

We talked about it in the moment on the Bengal show. To me, the biggest and the most key difference is that when you sweat wop out the coordinator and you have a different person in charge of like building everything about this thing, it is just so much easier to talk yourself into that unit taking a massive leap forward. I think for the Bengals, again, even with all the additions that they made, it's harder to get yourself to a place where you see them going from 30th in every defensive metric to 12th with Dallas. The fact that you're not just adding these pieces you're bringing an entirely due, entirely new approach to that side of the ball. It's easier for me to imagine that sort of leap for the Cowboys, which is it's just harder for the Bengals.

[Dave]

This is a crazy thing to say about a unit that was as bad as I've ever seen last year, but I'm excited to watch the Cowboys secondary like Jalen Thompson, I think is a really good player. Kobe Durant, y' all already stood on the table for him, but I refuse to let the playoffs completely color the season that he had last year. And obviously Caleb is a huge part of that. Like this won't be the best secondary in the league, but it's one of the worst I've ever watched last year and I think it'll be pretty fun this time around, especially with Christian Parker orchestrating it in my to me, the

[Robert Mayes]

best case scenario here again, when you have this kind of mystery box as a play caller and there are certain elements of this defense and the personnel that are different than the team I'm about to mention. But what if Christian Parker is just like Jesse Minter? Like is the couple as defensive personnel that much worse than what the Bron what the Chargers have been working with over the last couple years to be like a back half of the top 10 defense or. I don't really think so.

[Derek]

I think the I think the edge and linebacker rooms are less talented than than the Chargers room, I think.

[Robert Mayes]

100% definitely.

[Dave]

But I don't know why don't the linebackers scare you?

[Robert Mayes]

I just don't think they scare me that much.

[Dave]

They should. I like Dee Winters and I like the Marvi on Overshot.

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It's.

[Dave]

It's not enough as it stands right now.

[Robert Mayes]

I just think, I just don't think overall the talent level was that bad to if again the like the overall defensive infrastructure and ecosystem we're talking about aren't going to be enough to get them where they want to go. I just think that is on the table for me. Even with some of the roster concerns, I can't move on.

[Dave]

Yeah, we do.

[Robert Mayes]

All right, let's talk about the other team in Texas. The Houston Texans brought in Wyatt Teller, Braden Smith, traded for David Montgomery, Reed Blankenship, Logan hall. In free agency brought back Ed Ingram, Tim Settle and Christian Kirk. The main losses this year in the draft we got Keelan Rutledge in the first round, Kaden McDonnell and Marlon Klein in the second round. Dave, are you buying or selling the 2026 Houston Texans off season?

[Dave]

I buy it I'm worried that I'm going to wind up liking it on paper way more in May than what we see during the season.

[Robert Mayes]

What makes you say that?

[Dave]

We talked about it on a previous show, but mainly the, I mean the offensive line and what it looks like on paper. Looking at the depth chart, you're like, this is awesome. Wyatt Teller is a good player. Braden Smith is a good player.

[Robert Mayes]

I think we should have pump the brakes a little bit more on Wyatt Teller than we've been doing over the last two weeks.

[Dave]

That's, that's my. No, that's actually my point though is like it's easy to look at him on a depth chart and say this is an upgrade from what you had. But what does that really mean and what will it look like in practice? Odds are for one reason or another, it won't be as good as I can convince myself it looks right now. And I think you can say the same thing about Keelum Rutledge. It's, it's very fun to get excited about him and, and everything I've seen is really cool. But the like, the odds that he just takes it and runs with it and is immediately this amazing player, hopefully that happens, but it's not a realistic way to look at this. And so it's easy to say, look how much better and tougher the offensive line is. This is. And, and David Montgomery's there to run behind him and get the. To gritty yards. And that's all very exciting. Is it actually going to play out that well in practice? I hope so, but I've done this enough times to think the reality probably won't be as rosy as what I'm imagining right now.

[Derek]

I think I am buying it because, and I do fear I'm doing a little bit of the same thing. And I think for me it's not necessarily like the name value of it all. It's. I think sometimes, and I talked about this a little bit when we did the cold takes with the Titans defense where it's like, because I so obviously buy what the identity is supposed to be, I might be overrating how good it might actually end up because like again, Teller, Rutledge, Montgomery as like a grind them down runner. Like this is an offense that wants to beat the shit out of you up front and then throw all those play action shots down the field to Nico Collins and all these other big receivers, Jaden Higgins and guys like that. And so I can buy the vision. And this was still an offense that like they could find explosives Last year the issue was just that they're down to down play was just not good enough. They could not get out of second and longs. They were in a lot of third and longs because the run game was not good. And then even I think the short passing game was not as good as it needed to be on some of those downs. And so if that can just be 10% better because we made a lot of these upgrades, I'm buying it for that. My really only concern is one, a little bit of that maybe I'm looking at the offensive line through rose colored glasses. The defensive edge depth does worry me a little bit, but there are at least guys on the market that they could go pay $8 million to to solve this problem.

[Robert Mayes]

As I look at it, I think the argument my question with the offensive line is the offensive line is different and it's probably better, but how much better? And I think the argument that you're maybe a little bit more sound at tackle with Ursary in year two and Braden Smith and you're figuring out on the interior versus last year where by moving Titus Howard to guard, you were figuring out a tackle for the second half of the year. I do think that just being like, hey, we got all these bodies on the interior, Jake Andrews, Wyatt, Teller, Rutledge, we will figure it out. We will get three guys that we feel good about and we really feel good about the stability that we have at tackle. And then you combine that with David Montgomery is kind of a calming force in the run game, but also just in pass protection, like having a David Montgomery is that sort of presence in so many different areas of the offense I do think is a really good thing for this team specifically. And so while I do think the offensive line and the improvement is more theoretical than it is proven in practice, I'm hopeful about how this can work out. And then when you extend everything to the defense, I just like the plan of what they did on defense this off season. Like the Keelan Rutledge thing is like a pivot point for what you can be up front. And the body types you're seeking out Kaden McDonald. Jesus. Kaden McDonald as being, yeah, listen, just throw Keelan Rutledge over there too. Kaden McDonald is being like a pivot point for what the defensive front can feel like. I totally buy into that. And Reed Blankenship is like, exactly. We talked about this with a lot of this type of safety over the last week or so, but just throw $7 million at it and then you get to sleep a little bit better. Like, that's exactly what Reed Blankenship is. And like, it's supposed to be within this defense. And so I, I'm, I'm on board with it. Like, I, I do believe in what they did. Even if I think there's still more questions about the overall quality of the offensive line than maybe you like when you make this many moves. But I'm with Derek in that I'm buying into the mindset shift being the most important thing that can come from the types of players that they've added there.

[Dave]

And the other thing I would say is you can't guarantee it'll work out. I don't fault the thought process and what they're trying to do. So from that standpoint, I absolutely buy it, even if I'm a little on guard about how. How well it actually works.

[Robert Mayes]

The Green Bay packers brought in Jonathan Gannon as their defensive coordinator. Bobby Babich is their passing game coordinator, which I think is kind of interesting and worth noting. Those are two very different worlds, like where Bobby Babich came from with the Bills and what Jonathan Gannon has traditionally done. And so I think that's worth throwing out there. Not a ton of veteran additions this off season. Tyrod Taylor is now the backup quarterback. Bought in Javon Hargrave, traded for Zaire Franklin, lost Romeo Dobbs, Quay Walker and Kingsley Enigbare in free agency in the draft. No first round pick, cornerback Brandon C. Say in the second round. Defensive lineman Chris McClellan from Mizzou in the third round, and Denis Dennis Sutton out of Penn State on the edge in the fourth round. Derek, are you buying or selling the Green Bay packers off season?

[Derek]

Yeah, Derek, I think I'm selling a little bit. Like, I. It's hard for me to get there with a lot of what they did. And this is another team where they were pinched for resources, right? They spent a lot of their money last year on Aaron Bank. Go look at how much money they're spending on Aaron Banks, by the way, and how long until they can actually get out of that deal.

[Robert Mayes]

This is one of those where I looked at what they did in free agency last year, and even in the moment and even in talking to people, there's. It was kind of like, what is Nate Hobbs supposed to be like? Are you going to play him outside? Is he going to play in the slot? And again, I just think that they have this oh, well, he can play all over the place mindset with these players sometimes, and it gets them in Trouble. But the Packers 2025 off season was pretty curious and I think a lot of that stuff has come home to roost a little bit.

[Derek]

They are, they are paying for those sins. And then again like you make the Micah trade, there's nothing wrong with that. But because you don't have a first round pick then it's harder to add any talent this year and like continue to reload there. And so, so they were just pinched and like there were some of their creative solutions to some of these things I actually think was fine. Like letting Quay Walker go and going to trade for Zaire Franklin, like that's a good solution to the problem I think.

[Robert Mayes]

Agreed.

[Derek]

Signing Javon Hargrave I think is like a nice little. This team had no defensive tackle depth. Getting a guy who played fairly well last year, even if in spurts I think was nice. Reloading at corner was probably the right move given I think defensively that was their biggest issue last year. And just getting more bodies there is good. But the big thing with the packers and I think why they've been easy to get excited about over the last two seasons really is that the depth, especially at offensive line and wide receiver, it was everywhere. And so even if you couldn't find all these stars, it was like, man, they just have so many guys where it's hard to see the bottom falling out. Well now they're in a position where Jordan Morgan has to start at left tackle, Anthony Belton has to start at right guard, Sean Ryan has to start at center. These were all propositions that if it happened last year, then it happened. Now they are stuck in that spot. And the same thing is obviously true of the receiver core when they lose Romeo Dobbs and Don Tavian Wicks. Now Matthew golden has to play. At least with Golden, I actually do think people got down on him too quickly. I think there is still a lot of talent there. He was a first round pick. I think he, he could be good. But they're just stuck in so many of these spots where guys who were top 75 picks, depth, maybe they win the job. Guys, you know, last year or two years ago, they all now have to start because they have just not like all the other guys who were starting ahead of them just had to walk out of the door.

[Dave]

The other thing I would point out that confounds me about the packers is several of their biggest blue chip players that would make you feel better about them are coming off of really scary injuries.

[Robert Mayes]

There's nothing you can do about that.

[Dave]

No, there's nothing you can do about it. But does it or does it not affect how you feel about the packers

[Robert Mayes]

heading into the season? I, I'll spin it this way. The fact that all those guys were hurt at the end of the year, are we two down on what the end of season 20, 25 packers were? Because Tucker, Kraft, Devonte Wyatt, Micah Parsons, all of those guys were hurt. They're all coming back from injury now. But I think the fact that they were hurt maybe is coloring our maybe overall pessimism about this team more than it should.

[Dave]

I would say no. And we actually had a fun discussion about this in our discord last week. They were frustrating before, before Crafts even went down, let alone Parsons. And like, not to say they were bad. They were just a frustrating, inconsistent team. The Arizona game, the Cleveland game, like Carolina, the Carolina game, like they were frustrating before all of that stuff.

[Robert Mayes]

Philly game was frustrating.

[Derek]

Well, that was more than. That game was disgusting.

[Dave]

I'm like, oh Jesus, I forgot about the Philly game.

[Robert Mayes]

I mean the Philly's a good team obviously, but the fact that that was an ugly game than a frustrating game.

[Dave]

So I, I would argue no. Just because they were confounding before a lot of that happened.

[Robert Mayes]

I think that's fair. I'm more just like pushing back a little bit on the idea that the packers were some failure last year when in reality like they did get hurt toward the end of the season when they were on their way to potentially being like 11, 3 and 1.

[Dave]

I think that's fair. But my point, and you're right, it's not their fault. It's shit luck. Very similar to the Bears with, with Drew Dahlman, but blue chip players that are supposed to be able to lift things and make you feel better, like Micah Parsons. When's he available?

[Derek]

Will it be week one?

[Dave]

Will it be week five? And what's he look like? Same goes for tougher Tucker Craft, devonte Wyatt, Zach. Tom is another guy worth mentioning where

[Robert Mayes]

he has also heard again.

[Dave]

And I, you know, some of these guys, like Kraft and, and Tom, it sounds like they'll be stuff in training camp, but what do you look like? How quickly do you get back to looking like the guy we remember? That just influences a lot of my opinion here. And so that combined with everything Derek just said about losing some depth, about having to pay for previous decisions. Yeah, I, I kind of sell it. If I'm looking for copium, it would be. And I think the irony here is funny because we've been been super high on the packers too soon recently. What if the packers are this year's team that looks a hell of a loss, a hell late in the year than they do at the start because Micah Parsons starts turning it on in week eight and Tucker Kraft gets better and better. Like the fact that I'm selling this right now doesn't necessarily mean the packers are a worse team because they have that stuff in their back pocket. But as far as how their offseason has gone, which is the question, I'm selling it.

[Robert Mayes]

I think there are two different considerations here. One, the packers. Absolutely. All this stuff could come into, could fall into place. But I think like Derek alluded to, it's exactly what I had in my notes. Like all of these guys that were now that were used to be depth pieces or were kind of rotational players contributors have to be load bearing players, especially your first three, your last three first round picks like Lucas Van Ness, Jordan Morgan and Matthew golden based on what the rest of the roster looks like, like those guys have to be good for you and Van Ness took a step forward last year. I'm also still optimistic about Matthew Golden. The Jordan Morgan one is probably the biggest question. Like he's just left tackle, like how's that going to go? And so there's just more fragility overall to the entire situation here. Even if I'm open to the idea that this is still a good roster with a relatively high upside overall.

[Derek]

And so that's the thing. Like I think the star players give you some sort of ceiling it to me it's the offensive line we're going into last year. You could at least spin it where some of these guys were just in the mix but not necessarily earning starting jobs that it's like maybe this works out and they can find the best five. The fact that all those guys now are just the starting players and the offensive line was not good last year and I know some of these guys will be playing different positions than they played. But like that's where it's hard for me to like buy what is happening here.

[Robert Mayes]

And I mean that's the, that's. You could spin it the other way. Like right, like the offensive line wasn't good last year. This is a different group like Sean Ryan center and Belton the guard. Like we only saw that for like a stretch of the back half of the season. Then Tom got hurt. Like, like it's possible that they're just better across the board, but there are absolutely more question marks. The last thing Derek, I would ask you and again, I think it's important to kind of bring it back to this question. For all of these teams, would you have done anything differently, like, base, even if they had limited resources, is there something you would have liked to have seen them do that they didn't do that would make you feel better right now?

[Derek]

I mean, it's hard because, again, the offensive line is my biggest issue. But almost like the Bears pass rush, they are just, like, so heavily invested here that it's like they've drafted those guys they drafted or paid them. Again, like, Aaron Banks cost them a lot of money. And so it's like they are pretty committed to a lot of those guys. I don't know if there's anything I would have done. Like, again, this is the corner they've kind of just painted themselves into with the Micah Parsons trades, some of the money they spent last year. And this is not a team that, because they have a handful of other, like, expensive deals, like, they're paying their quarterback, they're paying Michael Parsons a lot of money. They don't have that much, like, cap space for 26, 27, 28 right now. I don't think that there was, like, a big move for them to have been made. So if I looked at it, maybe there were one or two, like, small ancillary things they could have done, but probably not a lot of moves that would have been like, man, I feel so much differently about them now because of this.

[Robert Mayes]

They've got a good chunk of space and flexibility next year, but they have need new contracts for Tucker, Kraft. Christian Watson's going to need a new deal after this year, and so they've got some looming financial decisions to make. On top of, like you said, they've committed to a lot of big money players over the last couple years. All right, before we get to the Eagles, let's take our next quick break.

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[Dave]

Well, you're gonna take a left at the old oak tree at this here road. Nah, I'M just kidding.

[Derek]

Let me get my phone out.

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[Derek]

Spectrum.

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[Robert Mayes]

Eagles hired Sean Manning as their offensive coordinator. Replaced Jeff Stoutland as their offensive line coach. Traded for Jonathan Garnard. Traded for Don Tavian Wicks and signed Hollywood Brown. Signed Reek Woolen at corner. Also brought in Arnold Etty on the edge losses, presumably A.J. brown. I. It's. It's gonna be. I. I'm just gonna act like he's not on the team as we have this discussion. I think that's just a little bit easier.

[Dave]

We don't have to wait that much longer. It's mid May already.

[Robert Mayes]

Jalen Phillips also go on Nakobe Dean and Reed Blankenship in the draft. Makai Lemon in the first round, Eli Stowers in the second round to tight end Markel Bell in the third round. Dave, are you buying or selling the 2026 Philadelphia Eagles off season?

[Dave]

Answer this question for me and I'll tell You what I think how much better does Hollywood Brown, Makai Lemon and Don Tavian Wicks make you feel about not having A.J. brown?

[Robert Mayes]

The entire my entire thought process with this team is I'm buying it because I think they protected themselves in the areas they should have based on the guys they either lost or theoretically going to lose. Jalen Phillips not coming back, trading John, trading Jonathan Garnard to make that happen, knowing that you're probably losing A.J. brown, getting Makai Lemon and also other pass catching pieces is part of that. The only thing we can talk about this that I'm kind of like I don't know how this totally fits based on like what they need and where they're going and where the holes are is like the Eli Stowers skill set in the second round being the thing they should have sought out there. Like that's the only thing to me that I it's kind of just like floating out there in a way I don't totally understand. Not even criticizing it. I just don't totally get it. Almost everything else they did I think is a very good reaction to either the guys you're losing this off season or the guys you never had. Like the second, the number two outside corner that they didn't have all of last year. So I think I'm answering your question with a definitive like I think I am buying it overall.

[Dave]

I think in totality I buy the Eagles off season because I implicitly trust the people making these decisions, AKA Howie Roseman. And I mean the Jonathan Garnard thing is such a perfect example of why you trust the Eagles and the advantage that they have in terms of team building. To use to use a three for Jalen Phillips because you know you're going to get them for Milton Williams and Josh Sweat and so you feel comfortable doing that, then you turn around and use a current three which you have because of Milton Williams and a future three on Jonathan Grinard. Which by the way that future three is going to come back to you because of the comp pick that you're going to get from Jalen Phillips because he signed a $130 million deal. It's just incredibly smart team building. We said it in March that the Reek Woolen signing is like for the price and the lack of invest like one year you're not tied to them for the long term and it's not that big of a price tag. It's an amazing way to address your secondary. I like much of what they've done in the big picture and that's what I admire about Philly, is they're usually a year or two ahead of things. My only qualm is, and again, it goes back to what your expectations are for the Eagles. They won a Super bowl two years ago. They were in another one before that. This feels like a team that should be pushing, pushing, pushing. And it was confounding that they weren't better last year. And getting rid of a guy who I still think really highly of in AJ Brown goes contrary to that. Like, and, and maybe it'll be good in the big picture, right? Like over two or three years. Maybe that is the right thing to do. But if you're on the cusp of getting back to the super bowl and maybe you should have gone deeper in the playoffs than you did last year, is that the right thing to be doing? I guess the counter argument to that would be the vibes in Philly. When they're bad, they're really bad. And maybe moving A.J. brown out of here is a chance to address that and reset the vibes a little bit. I don't mean to, to paint AJ Brown as the only problem here, but why else would you do something like this? Like, it, it doesn't feel like it should have to happen. And I think that's weird.

[Robert Mayes]

I don't think in an ideal world they would have traded A.J. brown on a football level. I, I just think that we got to a place where it had run its course. Yeah, I mean, I think that's it. I, I, I again, I think your football team is better off with AJ Brown than it is with Makai Lemon and that collection of guys. Even if you're excited about Makai Lemon, but at a certain point, like, I, I, it really did feel like the entire relationship with him in the franchise, him and the quarterback had kind of

[Derek]

run its course well. And so that's kind of where I'm at with their off season. I think from a pure on the spreadsheets roster building perspective, they did a phenomenal job, like signing Tariq Woolen, doing the swap for Jalen Phillips, and then trading for Jonathan Granard, adding some of the other depth that they did at the edge, like you said, Robert, insulating themselves from the looming trade of probably knowing that A.J. brown is going to be gone, making sure that we have four or five playable guys next to Devonta Smith. I think that that was like a really, really good job by them. I have a hard time buying it overall, at least for 2026, when they have clearly pissed off two of the five most important people in the. In the building to the point that they are going to be gone in AJ Brown and Jeff Stoutland. Like that. That's deeply concerning to me in terms of like, how good can this team really be? Because we haven't really seen this version of the Eagles be like a high level team without a dominant offensive line. And obviously it's a lot of the same pieces, but Lane Johnson's getting older. Landon Dickerson was not really healthy last year. They're losing Jeff Stoutland. Like, I think even though we're in a spot where you can see some of the talent and I like some of the roster moves that they made overall, looking at the picture, I just, it's hard for me to feel like this thing is moving in the right direction. Direction.

[Robert Mayes]

At a certain point. Didn't you need to try to do something different offensively? Like at a certain point wasn't it time to just be like, hey, we gotta start over and I think the

[Derek]

quarterback is still there.

[Robert Mayes]

Well, that and, and well, here's.

[Derek]

Maybe he won't be. Yeah, that's.

[Robert Mayes]

That's kind of my thing here is that this to me feels like a. Our right. We're trying this, we're trying to take this in a different direction. If it doesn't work, what gets what goes on the table when it comes to potential options and paths in 2027, like, I just don't think that's a crazy way to be thinking about this team and like where they could go from here. And so I, I get like obviously losing Jeff Stalin after what he's been is a huge loss. But at the same time it just seemed like they were starting from square one offensively. And this was just the casualty of that where for, you know, they're going to bring in, they're maybe not going to have him be as much part of the run game, whatever it was going to be. And so I. Obviously losing him is a huge deal. But I understand why they felt like they needed to go in a different direction based on how much they had pigeonholed themselves on that side of the ball over the last couple years.

[Dave]

The only reason I don't agree with you completely is just. And he was a well established offensive play caller with a lot of cachet to him. But like Kellen Moore came in on the back end of a very embarrassing season and they won a Super bowl like did. Do the Eagles need to reinvent the wheel to be successful? Cause they didn't reinvent the wheel to turn 23 into 2024. They changed out the play caller for a better one. That's, that's all they did.

[Robert Mayes]

But I also think if you look at what that team was like, they just stopped throwing the ball. Like it's not, they didn't figure it out on that side of the ball. They just stopped throwing the ball. And I just don't know if that is like a viable way to solve this problem again, like just asking like, well, let's, let's just do the 2024 thing again. I just don't know how possible that was when you consider what that actually looked like in practice.

[Derek]

And I think that that's actually fair. Like what 2024 was. They, they caught lightning in a bottle where they were the best run game in the league as a spread run game mostly and were the most explosive run game. Like it just by far. Like they, they probably weren't going to do that again in 2025, 2026, whatever it was going to be at that level at least. Obviously that could be your identity if you wanted it to be. I just, the pivot to me should not have involved moving the really, really good offensive lineman or offensive line coach and run game coordinator out of the building. And again, I don't know how all those things transpired.

[Robert Mayes]

I think that was his choice though. I don't think that was something that.

[Derek]

How did they arrive there is kind of my question.

[Robert Mayes]

I, I don't think they should not have been.

[Derek]

I, I, because I, because you can probably say that about A.J. brown too. Like it's his choice that he wants to be off of the Eagles, I think. And it, to me it's just why have they arrived in a spot where both of those people wanted to be out of the building? That's where it makes it hard for me.

[Robert Mayes]

I just don't know if like the rotting vibes over the last couple years we should take that into account when we think about whether they did the right things this off season.

[Dave]

I just, I think in, I think in a big enough picture and again, I, I, I trust the way they do this. They've reinvented themselves and pivoted so many times and I trust that in, in a long enough timeline it's going to be successful. But are you a better team without and good, good job Derek shouting out Jeff Stoutland as part of this too. But even if you eliminate coaching and just say are you a better team without A.J. brown, even if A.J. brown's not being maximized the way that he would prefer. I think my answer is no. Even if I understand why it's happening and why in the big picture it can work. Are you better in 2026 without AJ Brown? I don't think I can get all the way there.

[Robert Mayes]

I think that's fair. I just think there's so many different considerations as to why A.J. brown is no longer on the Eagles that go beyond whether you're a better football team.

[Dave]

No, I.

[Robert Mayes]

They had to weigh those.

[Dave]

I think that's. I. I think that's the right answer. But I'm. I'm curious to see exactly how good it looks at least in year one.

[Robert Mayes]

Get to our final two teams here. The Detroit Lions Drew Petzing in as the offensive coordinator, signed Cade Maze in free agency. Also brought in Larry Boreham as Juice Scruggs and Juice Scruggs as offensive line depth in the secondary. Roger McCreary, Christian Izzy and Chuck Clark as kind of like a piecemeal group as they deal with a lot of those injuries from last year. Lost David Montgomery, Aladeen Muhammad, Taylor Decker move. They moved on from Taylor Decker and then Alex Anzalone leaves in free agency in the draft. Blake Miller in round one, Derek Moore in round two, the pass rusher. Derek. Are you buying or selling the 2026 Detroit Lions off season?

[Derek]

I think I'm. They're a tough one. I think I like how they are. I don't even know if I want to say that I like Blake Miller, but here's my issue with the the Blake Miller pick. They could have had a couple of other guys who who were going to play laughter left tackle for them and they're obviously choosing to take Penne Sewell, move him from right tackle to left tackle and he could obviously do that. He's an player. But to me it's like that just feels like that opens up two avenues of volatility and questions of moving him and then drafting a young player.

[Robert Mayes]

That's so interesting.

[Derek]

Instead of just opening the one of just like drafting Monroe Freeling and now you only have the one.

[Robert Mayes]

I think I would. I'd be able to get on board with that in almost any other situation. Two things are influencing me here. One better like right or wrong. The Tristan worst thing is absolutely in the back of my mind and I get that like watch a team just do this and I want to soften my stance up on how much of a mistake I think this is. Two watching all the offensive tackle prospects and considering what your line would look like with all of them. So like let's just play it out like, all right, so at left tackle you have either Monroe Freeling or Max to Honachor, one of these like really high ceiling kind of prospects. And you keep Penny Sewell on the right side. That's a version of this. By flipping it the way that they did, you are swapping out two positions. And so that is inviting volatility. But I think as a player, Blake Miller is less volatile than a lot of these other guys. And so I think you can make an argument that that path actually has less volatility overall. Like they're going for more of a safe solution by doing this, even if it involves Penny Sewell moving to left tackle. Like that's the vibe I get from how they landed on this version of it.

[Derek]

And I think I get that like day one, Miller probably is a safer prospect. But like, even though, though Freeling was billed as this like projecty guy, like I think he would be fine from day one if he had to start and I think he'll still be a really good player. So maybe that's just me weighing too heavily how I thought about these players.

[Robert Mayes]

And I probably think too heavily what the floor on a guy like Blake Miller is. We do this all the time where it's just like, well, he's just, he's gonna be fine and then that doesn't happen. And so I at least want to admit that that's a possibility. But if I'm trying to like figure out their line of thinking, I think that version of it makes sense to me.

[Ad Voice 2]

Me.

[Derek]

And again, I want to be clear, I still think this will work out. Like, I liked Blake Miller a lot and then getting Cade Maze at center I think was good too. And so hopefully better play around those guards will also lift their level of play. I think the offensive line with Drew Petzing in there calling plays, I think the offense can be fine and good. I think my thing with them in totality is they are another team where they are paying for the sins of previous off seasons, specifically previous drafts where like they over the last three years have only had one third round pick and it was Isaac Tislot and it's because they keep trading them away. They had traded away a future first

[Robert Mayes]

third round picks to get Isaac Tesla. So yeah, they traded third round pick, right.

[Derek]

They trade multiple third round picks to get him to make their only third round pick. Basically they had traded one to up to get Sionevaki at one point. Giovanni Manu.

[Robert Mayes]

They had traded Carlton Davis was a

[Derek]

third round pick exactly like they have just moved all of their third round picks picks off of the roster. And in 2023 this isn't like trading one, but in 2023 they spent a first or a third round pick on Hendon Hooker which just like to me was a throwaway pick even at the time. And obviously he's not even on the roster now as a backup. And so they've just kind of burned a lot of these picks that are supposed to be your kind of not like back end of the roster but like your mid level, like lower level starters for you. And they just don't have a lot of that because like the core of this team is awesome. Like their best seven players are as good as any team in the NFL. The next 45 guys, I think you have a lot of questions about.

[Dave]

I've said this already but the NSC north pisses me off. Like tell me, throw out an order of the four teams and I would be like, yeah, I can see that. I absolutely could see that. I I think the Lions are still a playoff caliber team. I think they could win the NFC North. I think it slipped a little bit from where it was like two years ago because of all the reasons that Derek just outlined. I will say though, I would be up here selling the shit out of this except I really do love what they did at offensive line that much. I and I think it's valid. Maybe the Tristan Wurfs thing is coloring my opinion too much, but Pen se is that caliber of athlete and that caliber of player. I think Panayu will be able to switch to left tackle tackle seamlessly. And Bell, you can clip this out for our cold takes exposed episode. If I'm wrong next year I think he's going to be awesome. I think we don't know how well it's going to work, but I understand the logic of drafting the guy that started 42 college games at right tackle. That makes perfect sense to me. Cade Mays is there and I so I look at the offense and I'm like, okay, I could see this offensive line really kicking ass and being the engine for another really great, great Lions offense. Maybe Isaac Tislaw. Like maybe he just only does circus catches. Maybe he's just going to be freaking amazing in his second season.

[Robert Mayes]

We have no idea what he is, right? I mean like in theory Isaac Tesla could be a much bigger have a much bigger role and be a much more important part of the offense than he was. But I think like Derek said, it's important to acknowledge they spent a lot to get him.

[Dave]

Yeah, I, if I were a Lions fan, I'd be excited about what it would look like with a larger sample size. Not, not to say it'll definitely work. I would just be excited. The, the defense is really where you lose me, and it just, it just kind of, it feels like, like squeezing a lump of jello and trying to keep it from coming out of the different gaps in your hand where it's like, oh, well, we drafted, we drafted Derek Moore, but does that replace, like, is that enough opposite Aiden Hutchinson? Like, do you have enough in your edge rusher room? Have you done enough to offset the fact that Kirby Joseph and Brian Branch are not fully healthy? And Brian Branch, at least that's going to go right up to the season. I mean, we talked about Christian Izzy and earlier this week. That's a fun buy low, sell high sort of thing, but you can't count that. Roger McCreary looks like he's going to play meaningful snaps for this defense. I just, I don't love the totality of it at all. I think it's worth mentioning. It's easy to say Isaiah Pacheco is just David Montgomery light. I can't say I feel awesome about that. In 2026, Jameer Gibbs is an incredible player, but he's never had to be the workhorse in the backfield. I mean, he, he's averaged like 14 carries per game over the course of his career to this point. So if Isaiah Pacheco isn't as good as David Montgomery, what sort of impact could that have? So, like, there's, there's a lot here to like, but in totality, I'm just like, ah, this, this doesn't look like the juggernaut that it was two years ago, at least not on paper.

[Robert Mayes]

I get everything that you guys are saying, and I don't necessarily disagree. I, I think if I were trying to push back or just maybe play devil's advocate bit, when you look at the front, specifically the idea that like, well, it's just Derek Moore next to Aiden Hutchinson, how's that going to go? That's not really any worse than the shape that spot was in over the last couple years. And this defense has played at a high level during some of those stretches. Ale McNeil played 10 games last year, but he clearly wasn't right coming off of an injury. And so the idea that he's going to maybe potentially be the second most important player in your front one year removed from that injury, I can get on board with that. And in the secondary. It's like, well, if Kirby Joseph and Brian Branch are going to be back in week two, how much do you really want to spend on whatever the contingency plans are at those spots when you've already really committed to Kirby Joseph and I assume you're going to be committing to Brian Branch here pretty soon. So it's.

[Derek]

I don't know that part of it I actually want to talk about. Cause this, this was kind of the thing with their 2023 draft class and like I'm not usually the, you know, how much are we paying or not paying non premium positions, whatever. But the fact that in 2023 it was like running back, linebacker, tight end, safety, and all of them are obviously worth paying. Like, like all of those players, you know, Sam Laporta, Jameer Gibbs, they haven't

[Robert Mayes]

paid any of them.

[Derek]

That's the thing is that for this year and maybe this is a like next offseason problem, but like which of those guys do they decide are actually the core of this team in 2027 moving forward? I think that is some decisions they could start to make this off season. But I think think where they decide to go with that. I am very interested about assume all

[Robert Mayes]

of them will be back. And I actually misspoke. Before I said The packers had $60 million in 2027 space, I had the Lions in mind. They're in a very similar spot where I think they have like 15, 18 million right now for 2026. Not a ton of wiggle room then they have more in 2027. The packers have like 40 with a couple guys to sign Kraft and Wetson. The Lions have 60. But McCreary, excuse McCreary. He's at the top of the free agent list. They gotta pay Roger McCreary. How are they. I mean that's, that's what the money's gonna. The third. The three guys on that list right now, Campbell, Sam LaPorta and Brian Branch all need to get paid heading into next year. And then the Jameer Gibbs contract is needs to happen. Even though his 2027 cap, it is probably not going to be higher than 14 million, which it is right now.

[Dave]

You. So you think all four of those guys will get extensions with the Lions?

[Robert Mayes]

I kind of think they have to like what are the alternatives going to be at those spots?

[Derek]

I don't know. It just does feel like didn't the Colts have a roster build like this like five years ago? It was a lot of money at like like linebacker and safety and tight like and all this and running back obviously with. And I don't think that that's wrong, but I just don't know. It would feel. They would feel like the only team in the league that is built like this and maybe they are okay with doing that. I think it would just be like kind of shocking.

[Robert Mayes]

Well, what I would say to that is they're also paying guys at premium positions. It's not that they're totally paying guys there. They, they're paying two wide receivers, they're paying a quarterback they're playing, they're paying a tackle, they drafted another tackle in the first round. They're paying an interior defensive lineman, they're paying a pass rusher. So it's mostly just that they've drafted a lot of guys that they're going to need to pay I there. It's not that they're over allocating resources to non premium positions.

[Derek]

Well but it's. That's the thing though. How many top of the market deals can you really have on your team? At the same time the answer to

[Robert Mayes]

that question is going to be how much money do you want to spend?

[Derek]

Because I mean, I guess, yeah, part

[Robert Mayes]

of this overall conversation. Jared Goff has a $62 million cap hit next year. Year that is likely not going to happen.

[Dave]

Yeah, that's got to change.

[Robert Mayes]

And so they have massive salaries on their books right now. Gossip 40 million. Aman ra at 24. Aline McNeil's at 22. Penny se is at 24. So the answer to how many of these guys you can afford is going to be how many checks does the Ford family want to write? Because you can try to outrun this thing and try to retain all of these guys for the foreseeable future if you want to. I wonder if that's ultimately what's going to happen. Happen. Golf is a $62 million cap hit next year and then a 63 mil or $70 million cap hit in 2028. So if you just want to keep pushing that money out, that is an option for you. That'll be his age. 34 season.

[Dave]

We've done three of the four NFC north teams on this show and for all three of them I'm just like, I think they could win the division. I don't, I'm not willing to say that they're like a Super bowl favorite and that's. It's, I mean it's a frustrating thing to try to parse out. And that's how I feel about the Lions, the Packe, the Bears, the Lions offense.

[Robert Mayes]

The last thing I want to say about this is I think their bet on offense was with better health and then more physicality. Right. Like, swapping out Graham Glasgow for Cade Maze is like, you're. You're making a very pointed shift there by more better health and more physicality up front and an offensive coordinator that we think will just play nice and, like, be somebody that is a active part of how we're trying to be a football team. Is that enough for us to be really, really good on offense next year? Year? I kind of buy that. Like, I kind of buy that that might be enough for them to be really, really good on offense again next year.

[Derek]

And I will say that I'm open to that possibility, too, because they were closer last year than we were. Like, they were still a really good offense last year. They just weren't the second best offense in the league. Like, they were still really explosive. The down to down just wasn't as good.

[Robert Mayes]

Yeah, they were just more inconsistent. We've talked about that a lot. Like, I believe that they can find some of that consistency and be really good. I think the defense is where the questions come into play. But I also don't really have a ton of issues with how they handled what they did with the resources that they had. Well, speaking of teams and what they did with the resources that they had and being a little bit confounded by it, the Denver Broncos this off season traded for Jalen Waddle. That. That's it. That's end of list this offseason. They lost John Franklin Myers lost Dre Greenlight and didn't make a pick until the third round.

[Derek]

Like, it.

[Robert Mayes]

It's crazy. Looking at the Broncos depth chart, unlike our lads, you look at every other team and there's yellow for new sightings and whatever color the rookie, the rookies are in. And it. There's so many different changes. You look at the Broncos depth chart top to bottom, there is one new player among the 22 starters.

[Dave]

The Broncos and the Jags, it's very similar where you're just. You're expecting to see all the different colors and you're just like, nope, we're running it back back.

[Robert Mayes]

The Broncos doing nothing other than trading for Jalen Waddle.

[Derek]

If you even look at the second line on our lads, there's only two changes. And one's a one would be a backup offensive lineman who is like, not going to play unless he absolutely needs to.

[Robert Mayes]

So how do we feel about this?

[Dave]

Okay, I. I feel strongly about this, so I'll Jump in and say I'm buying the out of it. Actually, I, I honestly, I view the Broncos as a contender. I, I'm, I'm all in. And I don't blame them for anything that they did wrong. Jonathan Frank. Jonathan. Franklin Myers is a guy that I like a lot. It is a little curious that they let him go, but made $21 million a year. Actually, I, I. Let me rephrase. It's not curious that they let him go because if you're reading the tea leaves, the Broncos have extended every damn player they like over the last two years. Like every key piece of this team is on a long term extension. It's honestly wild. Thank you, Walmart. Smart. And so it was kind of in like you could read the tea leaves and see that he probably wasn't going to be around. And I would point out, I think obviously you still have Zach Allen, you keep DJ Jones, you keep Malcolm Roach. Both good players. I do think it's worth pointing out the first draft pick they spent was on Tyler, on Yadum, who can fill that role and be a versatile piece on the interior, their defensive line. I think it's worth pointing out too that they, he's a restricted free agent, so it's easy to do. But they kept Jaquan McMillan. So on top of drafting a DB in the first round last year, your secondary is still incredibly strong for losing a guy of JFM's ability. I think the defense is in a perfectly good spot. And then you trade for a badass receiver who I think works with your quarterback extremely well. I mean, I remember talking about it when they did the waddle deal that like, I think he should be able to match Bo Nix's skill set so. So well, when you talk about, about a guy who can take those 10 yard digs and slants and turn them into big time explosive plays, I think it's something that Broncos offense could really benefit from. And then they get a pet kind of mine in Jonah Coleman as their third running back where it just makes me feel a little bit better about the overall depth there. If you're telling me Bo Nicks is healthy and ready to go, I think, I think they kick ass and I feel really good about what they did, even if it's not a whole lot of actual moves.

[Robert Mayes]

I also think it's worth pointing out that they brought back a couple guys. Guys. So the ways that they use some of the money that they had this offseason is that they just brought back players that were going to be Free agents. Alex Singleton was going to be a free agent. J.K. dobbins was going to be a free agent. And so they just retained the players that might have hit the open market. Derek, When I see something like this and I see a team like, do almost like next to nothing other than like one big swing, there's part of me that always is like a little bit uneasy about it, where I'm like, I don't know, man. But when I look at this, it's. It's like, I don't know. What would they have done that you would have wanted them to do that they didn't? Like, I do feel like overall the roster's in a pretty good place. Like, we can talk about, well, you know, the tackles have been super healthy over the last couple years. Is that going to happen again when it comes to why there's not just going to be this, like, linear progression on offense, but at the same time it's like they have decent depth there. Like, they've gotten by with their offensive line depth over the last couple years. Like, I don't know, like, there's part of me that it would leave me a little bit uneasy, but I also don't know what elements of it I would specifically criticize.

[Derek]

I mean, I'm all in on what they did on the offense. Like, I know that I've been critical of Bonix and how the offense is operating, all that stuff, but again, to Dave's point, like, he's the perfect receiver to do what they want to do. Where you need a guy who you can spit the ball out to, who can stretch the field a little bit if he needs to, can be like your yak target. And so I think I absolutely buy a team that, that didn't really have many glaring holes and a team that we said last year, like, they do a lot of stuff and they keep the, the boat afloat on offense really well, they needed juice and they just didn't have it. And I think this was obviously the best move that they could make. So I'm overall in on it. But I do look at the defense a little bit and I'm, even though It's a good 11 starters, not being able to make any move does concern me a little bit, just because defense can tend to be a little bit more volatile and I am worried about the depth at linebacker and safety a little bit. Like if one of those guys, guys goes down, they are playing guys that just really have not given them hardly any positive NFL snaps. And so I do worry a little bit there, but overall I think that this is they were a very good team last year. If Bo Nicks was healthy, they could have absolutely been in the super bowl and I probably expect them to be like an 1112 win team again this year.

[Dave]

Don't love the linebacker situation, but I do think it's worth saying too Dre Greenlaw can still be a good player and especially now that he's back in San Francisco.

[Robert Mayes]

But didn't for them last year.

[Dave]

He did not give them much. Like he was more of a name than a player for Denver. Maybe that'll change now that he's back in San Francisco, but I don't think that's some crazy loss for them to sustain. I wish the linebacker situation was a little bit better, but I think they can get by and and there's enough talent everywhere else that it makes me feel better about again.

[Robert Mayes]

It just always makes me a little bit uneasy where teams are like yeah, we're good. They get I I that just there are enough examples of that not going well, but at the same time I there's nothing really specific. I'm like I wish they would have done this. I would feel better about it. Maybe depth at a couple specific positions. Like you mentioned Derek, but overall I understand approaching the off season even something like they drafted a guard in the fourth round. Ben Powers is going to be a free agent after this year. Like even that makes sense. Like I I just for the most part, even if it was a very quiet offseason, I can understand the Broncos approaching it this way. My God, do they need Jalen Waddle to be a good player?

[Dave]

I mean for sure that it banks on him being that guy, but I'm comfortable with the swing.

[Robert Mayes]

All right, that is all we've got for the playoff hopefuls. We will be back next week breaking down the contenders and whether or not we are on board with the way they approach the off season, for now, that is all we've got. Appreciate you guys listening. We're talk to you very soon. Thanks for tuning in. Make sure to hit that subscribe or follow button so you never miss an episode. If you enjoyed what you heard, please like comment and leave a rating. We'll see you next time.

[Dave]

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[Robert Mayes]

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