← The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL
The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL
Conference Championship Games Recap: Patriots and Seahawks advance to Super Bowl LX
01:08:33
Loading summary
Transcript204 lines
- [00:00]
Robert Mays
You know how everything's a subscription now. Music, movies, even socks. I swear if I to continue this.
- [00:06]
Ad Voice
Ad, please upgrade to premium plus platinum.
- [00:08]
Dave Hellman
Uh, what?
- [00:09]
Robert Mays
No. Anyway, Blue Apron. This is a pay per listen ad. Please confirm your billing. Oh, that's annoying. At least with the new Blue Apron there's no subscription needed.
- [00:17]
Dave Hellman
Get delicious meals delivered without the weekly plan.
- [00:19]
Robert Mays
Wait, no subscription? Keep the flavor. Ditch the subscription. Get 20% off your first two orders with code APRON20. Terms and conditions apply. Visit blueapron.com terms for more everyone deserves to be connected. That's why T Mobile and US Cellular are joining forces. Switch to T Mobile and save up to 20% versus Verizon by getting built in benefits they leave out. Check the math@t mobile.com switch and now T mobile is in US cellular stores. Savings versus Comparable Verizon plans plus the cost of optional benefits. Plan features in Texas and fees vary. Savings with three plus lines include third line free via monthly bill credits. Credit Credit stop if you cancel any lines. Qualifying credit required.
- [01:00]
Derek Classen
Par le tu francais? Hablas espanol? Par l'. Italiano? If you've used Babbel, you would Babbel's conversation based technique teaches you useful words and phrases to get you speaking quickly about the things you actually talk about in the real world. With lessons handcrafted by over 200 language experts and voiced by real native speakers, Babbel is like having a private tutor in your pocket. Start speaking with Babbel today. Get up to 55% off your Babbel subscription right now at babbel.com acast spelled B A B-B-E-L.com acast rules and restrictions may apply.
- [01:45]
Robert Mays
Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mays. Just buzzing after that NFC Championship game. Man was everything you could have hoped it would be between arguably the two best teams in the league. Teams that had played two bangers of games coming into this one and just a back and forth phenomenal football game to decide who gets to go to the super bowl out of the nfc. And that team is the Seattle Seahawks who have had a staggeringly impressive year just on both sides of the ball. Everything they seem to do in the off season turned to gold and so many of those moves came came up huge for them in a back and forth game against the Rams. So absolutely love digging into that one. I mean we spent a ton of time on that game. I'm not sure how we couldn't based on how that whole thing went. ASC sort of a different story. A Very strange, ugly game influenced by the weather, two pretty brutal offensive performances. We mentioned it when we were breaking it down. I mean there were like three or four plays from the Patriots offense that ultimately swing that game for them. You can count them on one hand. It doesn't take a lot to work through those, but ton of credit to the Patriots for the season that they've had. We will see them in the Super Bowl, a rematch of my first super bowl which is after the 2014 season. The Patriots and the Seahawks, very different feel to these teams, a wonderful feel to these games. Let's dig into it with me, Dave Hellman and Derek Classen right now. After the way that the first two games between these teams went, especially the second one, all we could have hoped for is a game like the one that we just watched. I'm still just buzzing here. My notes are a mess. I wrote 10,000 words about this game. I'm going to be trying to dig through them in real time as we talk about this thing. Just an unbelievable football game between the probably the two best teams in the league for a chance to go to the Super Bowl. There is nothing more that you could want from that game than what we got.
- [03:41]
Dave Hellman
And a little bit of the best of both worlds, right? I mean the final score is 31, 27, very high scoring game, plenty of big offensive moments and, and Sam Darnold had laugh with some really clutch throws at the end but for no points to be scored in the fourth quarter and, and the defenses to have their moment, specifically the Seahawks defense at the end of that drive. Man, I'm, I'm going to be thinking about the 84 yard 14 play turnover on downs by the Rams for a very, very long time. Just like everything you could possibly love about football distilled into one possession and the Seahawks get the last laugh and they are onto the super bowl and it lived up to all my wildest expectations.
- [04:22]
Derek Classen
My notes also look like a light show. Usually when we start to do these shows I go back and we'll highlight a bunch of different things in different colors that in my mind mean different things. But as I was trying to go through this, every single line is just highlighted with some of its scheme stuff. Some of it's just good plays that football game for it to come down to literally inches between whether or not Puka Nakua was inbounds or not on that final play for this series to again come down to inches when it was one of the best three game series I've ever seen. One of the Best playoff games that I can remember in recent history. This was everything that this game was supposed to be, which you don't always get. Like I think sometimes we take for granted. Like we think these games are going to be great and sometimes they're not everything they're supposed to be. But this game was truly everything it could have been.
- [05:06]
Robert Mays
We weren't sure what to expect. I think just because we've had different versions of this game this year. The first time these two teams played it was ugly. It was defensive. Seahawks defense did something to the Rams and no team really all season was able to do in the second game. Obviously we get a ton more points. The Rams offense consistently moves the ball. The Seahawks needed a special teams touchdown to win that game because we had some really tough moments from Sam Darnold who has struggled consistently against Chrushula specifically over the last two years. The way that his season ended last year with Minnesota and then the first two starts they had gotten him a bunch of different times. He turns the ball over I think five or six times combined in the two games previously against that team this year. And so I think that's where you have to start this conversation. Sam Darnold was magnificent in this football game. Magnificent. 62.5% drop back success rate for the Seahawks in this game per next gen stats. I believe that's the 15th best mark in any single game this season. So not. I mean just think about that the scale of this game against what had been a really good defense for most of the year. He has one of the best games of the season. 46 EPA per drop back for Sam Darnold in this game which for context I think we talk about this all the time. 0.23 is usually like MVP level. So we're talking about double that from Sam Darnold in this game and on just so many different levels. Is that an incredibly cool story? And obviously we know how his season ended last year. We know that he's been a liability at times this season, including in both of the Rams games. And it brings me back to a moment I had before the 2024 season when I was up in Minneapolis talking to Sam Darnold before his first season there was. And just talking to him about the process of getting there and what his year was in San Francisco was like. And he just seemed to be somebody who was so appreciative of the opportunity but also had just had. Was very clear eyed about like what he could do with it. And in talking to him about his time in San Francisco and just what he learned being in that offensive system and obviously one that has carried over that he's played in with Clint Kubiak, who will talk about today, he was just talking about how he learned that you don't need to do everything as a quarterback. All you need to do is just consistently make the right plays if you're in an offensive system that allows you to do that. And he made plenty of spectacular plays today. But him playing within himself over the last two seasons and learning how to do that, he's an incredibly talented player. Those flashes are going to come. But watching him not try to do too much and the great moments that have come from that and it culminating in something like this where a guy who has had an incredibly strange ride to this moment shows up the big biggest in the biggest moment of his entire career. It's just an unbelievable story. And selfishly, I can't help but really appreciate this for him because again, I just think that he's handled all of this with a ton of humility and grace and really does deserve it on a certain level.
- [07:59]
Derek Classen
And I think it looked even different and better than you would have imagined. Like, I think the bargain with like what the Seahawks team was supposed to be and what he even was with Minnesota was like, can we get him to kind of control the game, not make some mistakes, make five or six really key throws on 26 pass attempts. He dropped back like 40 something times in this game and he really only made maybe two plays where he put the ball in danger and for the most part made like a dozen incredible throws. And you know, some of them were incredibly schemed up, which we'll talk about from Clint Kubiak. But he was pretty nails both in terms of like knowing where to go with the football and really attacking these Rams DBs down the field, which we've talked about. The RamsDBs are nice when they can click and close on stuff that is right in front of their face in the, you know, inside of 10 yards of the line of scrimmage. When you throw some of these digs, some of these deep crossers, some of these, you know, deep outbreakers and stuff like that, you can really get these Rams corners. And they picked on Kobe Durant for a lot of this game. They picked on Darius Williams early down the field and Sam Darnold just knew where to pick all his matchups. And I thought down the field he did a really good job of giving these guys match, giving them good opportunities when they were there. But I also Thought underneath, like he did a fantastic job of leading for yards after catch. I mean the ball that he throws to Cooper cup there at the end where he kind of stretches over and barely gets over the first down marker, if that ball isn't perfectly leading him, they don't convert that play. And he had like a handful of other passes this game where he's perfectly leading guys. Setting up for yards on after catch and making it really difficult for this Rams defense to consistently tackle that moment.
- [09:25]
Robert Mays
On third down is important to bring up one of eight for the Rams on third down in this game. Seven of 13 for the Seahawks on third down in this game. I mean that's in those moments where it really is all on the quarterback. And these are two teams that both love play action. They love putting their quarterbacks in advantageous spots. But when you're just sitting back there and it's third and seven, third and eight. Darnold came up huge in several of those moments today when it really was kind of all on him. And those receivers.
- [09:49]
Dave Hellman
Look at the way the Rams were able to move the ball. They had a four play full field touchdown drive in this game. Like that doesn't happen to the Seahawks. They had the drive that I mentioned that ended in the turnover on downs. They could very easily let this game slip if Darnold wasn't nails on that final possession. And the third and seven to cup was incredible. And then the second down out to Jackson Smith than Jigba. He's very open on that play. But to put the ball in his hands. You're up by three, you're. You're up with. You're up by four with three minutes to play. The Rams have just burned their final time out. Plenty of people would advocate being very conservative there and Kevin Burkhart and Tom Brady kind of were. They were like, look, they're throwing here. And to put that on Sam Darnold and have him deliver for you with two really, really clutch throws. And I know the Rams eventually got the ball back, but you bled it out to the point where it was going to be a last gas sit. That's all Sam Darnold. And it was very, very impressive to watch him. So, you know, going back to the wild card round, Stafford talked about it before the game, like taking people's hearts. Darnold was doing that with the game on the line in those final few minutes.
- [10:57]
Robert Mays
You mentioned that second and 10 completion of JSN. I think that's a really good one to kind of like zone in on as we talk about the guys that really shine for the Seahawks offense in this game. That is a combination on that play of Sam Darnold, JSN and Clint Kubiak, calling that on second and 10 in that moment, knowing they have no timeouts left and just saying we're going to try to win the game. Yeah, I love that being the mindset from the Seahawks there and then jsn, what he does on that route and what he did on so many of those plays in this game. Just an incredibly special season from a guy that we've talked about this so much. Derek is just different than most people. Like I think if you go back and you really compare him to anybody over the last 10 years, like Prime Antonio Brown is probably the closest guy I would get to when it comes to like the way he moves and the way he plays. And so for him to kind of have that moment and then we'll talk about some others where just this perfect confluence of you have this incredibly special receiver and you have a play caller who in my opinion was just dialed in the whole night, period. But that moment, specifically with the game on the line, second and 10, we're going to call play action pass because we believe that our guy can make this happen and Sam can make that throw it. Just so many just nails moments from that trio specifically in this game. Unbelievable stuff.
- [12:10]
Derek Classen
And it started from like incredibly early in the game with in the first quarter with like three and a half minutes left. They had that third and two like in the red zone and they do it starts off with Clint Kubiak. They start with trips to the right hand side and then they motion a player to the left. It actually gets the Rams DBs to flip. Where now Kobe Durant ends up taking Jackson Smith and Jigma as like the point man in that bunch. He has to run across the field to him on that crosser. And that's the play where Jackson, Smith and Jigga makes that insane one handed catch like just like stabbing it on the sideline so he has that play and then they just had a bunch of other ones like the corner post that he takes against cover, cover two right before.
- [12:48]
Robert Mays
I love that play.
- [12:50]
Derek Classen
That is an incredible call and an incredible route. Like you. It's a good like you knowing that the Rams play a bunch of COVID too. That's just a great call from Clint Kubiak, knowing what you're probably going to get. And we talked about that coming in like the Rams play a lot of it and for a lot of this season that Seahawks had not had good answers. That's an incredible play call. Sam has to be so just ready to rip that ball. And he was. That was a really good throw. Like, they just had so many incredible moments this game. And I was just. Again, that was probably the fact that we got a Sam Darnold game of. What did you say, 62% success rate? 62 and a half drop backs is just like. That's not the type. That's not the type of game I thought that he was really capable of, especially against the Rams defense that has its issues. And the corners are very gettable, but I just didn't think he would be able to do that in a playoff game.
- [13:35]
Dave Hellman
I was about to say they sacked him three times. They pressured him 14 times on those drop backs. Like, they got to him and made him uncomfortable. And he fought through it anyway.
- [13:43]
Robert Mays
There were some times when he made some really nails plays against the. Against pressure. And I want to talk about a couple of those. That sequence, Derek, that you just mentioned, though, where that. That sequence and that swing in the right at the end of the first half is a massive swing in how the game goes. The rams are up 1310. They give the ball back to Seattle with like a minute left. And so then you have that sequence of plays from the Seahawks, that one you're talking about. There's 37 seconds left in the second quarter when he makes that massive throw to JSN down the field. And I. That's just such a. There's so many little details on that play, but at right before the play, get a quick motion from cup that gets Quinton Lake running from side to side. And then because of that, the number, the corner that's over, JSN bumps out with cup right as that play was happening. And so instead of JSN having, I think it was Kobe Durant, like, on him on the line of scrimmage, he gets a free release on that play because of the motion, and it essentially leaves him one on one with the safety to that side. He does an incredible job with his shoulders in the head fake, which he always does. And Darnold puts it on the money. And so that play is designed. It's what JSN skill set is. It's Sam making it great to throw it on the field. And then that drive ends with the touchdown to JSN from the backfield, which they do all the time where they want to get him singled up on linebackers, and they'll throw the ball to the flat a decent amount when they get him in that situation, but instead he runs a corner out. And then if you look at the rest of the design on that play, Shaheed runs a big crosser so it yanks the corner out to that side. And then cup ties down Quinton Lake, who's the flat defender. So it's really just Nate Landman having to carry JSN on that corner route. He drops him touchdown. And so that, that sequence with like less than a minute left in the second quarter where you have the monster chunk play against Cover 2 and then the JSN touchdown out of the backfield, that it's a massive, massive set of things that turns it from a three point deficit at half for the Seahawks to a four point lead. And so just so many little moments in this game of those guys with Kubiak and JSN and Sam Darnold just being on the exact page.
- [15:43]
Dave Hellman
I fully expect the Raiders job to stay vacant through the super bowl based on the way Tom Brady was complimenting performance.
- [15:52]
Robert Mays
I completely understand that. And then it's. Even when you got into the second half, it's. This wasn't like the showiest version of it, but there was a stretch in the second half when they, they went down to score. It was 24, 20 right. The Rams had just scored a touchdown. And then the Seahawks kind of answered there and it was another big third and nine conversion. They actually motioned and they actually had a bunch on the left. And that's when McCullough just kind of drops cup in the left flat. And so Sam hits him. It's wide open. And then you have this sequence where it was like the answer from Darnold and Kubiak combined was just so good. There was a little empty check down on 1st and 10. They use a lot of empty and good ways in the second half. You have the little design swing to JSN from the backfield which he makes somebody miss after the catch. You have a little boot to Barner on first down that gets you into like a second and three. And then on third and three, which was the cup touchdown to go up 31 to 20, they have a little bumper motion with Kenneth Walker on the left side that lets Sam know that it's zone coverage. And then so he's allowed to come all the way back to comp on that play and he hits him for a touchdown. And that's another example where you talk about the pass protection. It was there. He was pressured. You're always going to be pressured against this Rams team, but for the most part, they had time to come back to the backside on a lot of this stuff because the protection down to down was really good. And the guy that jumps out to me, there's Charles Cross, was left one on one with Jared Verse for like a huge chunk of this game. And over the first 20 drop backs, that's the last time I looked it up. Verse had four pressures on 20 dropbacks, none of them quick pressures. Average time to pressure was 3.05 seconds. And so what Charles Cross did against Jared Verse in this game to give the offense that much time to hit plays like that, even if Darnold was pressured, which inevitably is going to happen, I just felt like the pass protection overall for Seattle was really good and needed to be.
- [17:41]
Derek Classen
And that tracks with like just what I. It felt like you were watching too because most of the pressures in my mind were like, Sam Darnold gets pressured through the middle and then had to bail out. It was a lot of times to his right. He ended up bailing out. Had a couple of throwaways, had a couple of nice check downs that way. But I really did think the tackles played incredibly well in this game. And this was one where I think in a lot of other times that they've played this matchup, the longer, stronger rams, defensive ends have kind of had their way in that matchup. And so. So the fact that Kross not even, clearly not even being 100% healthy coming into this game, playing the way that he did, I thought was incredible. I want, I want to go two more shout outs on the Seahawks offense before I kind of say my piece here in terms of Kubiak's play calling. I thought he had a. In the first half, I thought he had a couple of really nice like feel moments. On the first drive, they attacked Darius Williams straight down the field on a go ball. The very next play, they throw like a smoke alert screen at him and they're like, you just gave up a big play, we're going to make you tackle. And they pick up like another eight or nine there. I thought that that was just like a smart way to attack kind of your matchups and know what you're doing. And then there was another one where inside the red zone after that, actually the JSN insane one handed snag. They had got set back on second down with a penalty. And so it ends up being like 2nd and 17 or 18 or something like that. They run this little play where they have JSN starting to the left. He motions all the way to the right, orbits back around the backfield to the left. So everyone's got eyes on him. Everyone's going to the left and they run a fake screen to JSN to the left and then screen back the other way to Kenneth Walker and pick up most of the yardage. They lost on the penalty and they don't get the third and nine into the end zone or whatever. But I thought it was just such a. A sharp way to like understand how to move these guys. And it was a really good like, get back play call. So you had those moments and then Kenneth Walker today was.
- [19:24]
Robert Mays
He was unbelievable.
- [19:26]
Derek Classen
He was unbelievable. Like he just. The one, the first, the first touchdown he gets where he just bounces duo out the front door and just outruns Byron Young and insane. And then the play against Spates in the backfield, that's like crazy.
- [19:39]
Dave Hellman
I think we have that too. I mean, we have the touchdown for sure.
- [19:42]
Derek Classen
I, I hope we have the one where he makes space miss, because the one where he makes spade Smiths is like, that looks like a Madden juke. Like that. That looks like what it looks like in the video game. Like that just doesn't happen in real life very often. And he was insane.
- [19:55]
Robert Mays
The catch he had in the left flat late in the game.
- [19:58]
Derek Classen
Oh my God.
- [19:58]
Robert Mays
Making a guy miss on that play, he was unbelievable. If I did not win my fantasy league, I'd be so bitter about the Kenneth Walker playoff breakout. I would be just furious about it. But now, because I did, I can just enjoy this in all its glory.
- [20:10]
Dave Hellman
I. Stats can lie because. And I know he had receiving yards, but like the, the, the next gen will tell you he had a 42% rushing success rate. Bullshit. I don't believe it, man. And look, I gotta learn how to take notes as detailed as y' all because mine is just a hodgepodge. So I just, I searched the word Walker and it's just like six instances. Holy shit. Kenneth Walker. The touchdown was one, the spades play was two. You just mentioned the third and ten, which again, that's just a throw to the flat. If he doesn't get that, the Seahawks are punting like three minutes earlier to Stafford could change the game entirely. And then he had another one later in the fourth quarter, second and six. It's after the turnover on downs. Byron Young has him dead to rights in the flat.
- [20:56]
Robert Mays
That's the play I was talking. Oh, second and six after the turnover.
- [20:59]
Dave Hellman
He had two plays in the flat. Cause the other one was the second.
- [21:01]
Robert Mays
And six is the One I was.
- [21:02]
Dave Hellman
Talking about, he picks up a, he picks up exactly 10 yards on a third and 10 that lets the Seahawks bleed another series off the clock. And then the Byron Young play where you tackle him there, it's third and long in the shadow of your own goalpost. I mean Darnold was dialed in so maybe he gets out of it anyway. But you pick up 15 yards on a play where Byron Young has you in the grasp. Every time he touched the football, he gave them new life. I thought he was incredible. Like other than Darnold and jsn, he was so, so good.
- [21:32]
Robert Mays
He's a free agent after this year and I, I would not be surprised if what he has done in the playoffs gets him a healthy chunk of change heading into the market next offseason. The last play I want to mention because I think it takes us into a different part of the conversation. The Bobo touchdown is another one of those just really well designed plays. You come out on that in, on in that situation with that personnel, in that grouping. They're in 12 personnel with Bobo out there. What does that tell you? Derek?
- [22:00]
Derek Classen
That's I would think that tells you we want to run the ball here a little bit. Yes.
- [22:03]
Robert Mays
Yeah. On the field is one of your two receivers and 12 personnel. It's like that is a run, run, run formation and instead play fake Bobo on the little end breaker. And that to me is the best example in the whole game. Kobe Turner is coming on that play. I think it might have been on a twist he's has completely unabated bearing down on Sam Darnold who makes just a on the money throw to Bobo on that play. So again that's one of those. We are playing with expectations. We know what you probably think this is because of the personnel that's on the field. We're going to play action. We're going to rip it behind you. And if you watch how hard the linebackers bite on that play and the space, it creates another one of those really good moments. And why I wanted to finish the Seahawks offense conversation there is that it kind of brings us into the swinging doors elements of this game because that touchdown happens immediately after Xavier Smith drops that punt inside the 10 yard line. And so it in. In whether this is fair or not. I'll be curious what you guys think about this. I almost feel like in terms of like the karmic swings in the game, the Xavier Smith dropped punt into a touchdown and the reek wo and taunting into a touchdown just kind of like neutralize each other like it's 100% agree that one happens on each side and then we can just kind of play the rest of the game.
- [23:18]
Dave Hellman
I agree in the like zero sum aspect of it, but the. No, I can't all the way get there because I don't support the taunting.
- [23:27]
Robert Mays
Okay, clear.
- [23:27]
Dave Hellman
But that is how clear. That is a clear distinction.
- [23:30]
Robert Mays
That's fair.
- [23:30]
Dave Hellman
That is fair. That's fair. Look, guys are going to drop balls in playoff games. Shit's going to happen. It happens every year. That's part of football. It sucks for Xavier Smith, but that, that's football. The league wants refs to throw a flag in a situation like that, which sucks.
- [23:46]
Robert Mays
I can't.
- [23:47]
Dave Hellman
Are you kidding me?
- [23:49]
Robert Mays
Even I understand that he was like taunting the entire way down the sideline. I'm ok. You mean to tell me championship?
- [23:56]
Derek Classen
Who cares?
- [23:57]
Dave Hellman
We spent 10 minutes before kickoff talking about how marvelous it is that these teams have played two games separated by four points and two yards or whatever. It was like they are neck and neck playing for the Super Bowl. They are division rivals. How the hell wouldn't you be talking your shit all the way down the sideline after you make a play like that?
- [24:17]
Robert Mays
It's undeniably ridiculous. I more so I'm equating them just in the sense that like both teams had a brutal stretch where it ended up giving the other team a touch touchdown.
- [24:26]
Dave Hellman
And, and I want to be clear, like I don't, I don't go in for officiating nonsense. Especially like DeMarcus Lawrence got away with a face mask on.
- [24:33]
Robert Mays
There was a lot of stuff down in this day. Eminem war yanked demonte Adams by the hair. Like there is a bunch of stuff.
- [24:38]
Dave Hellman
There'S plenty of stuff on both sides. But like the, the, the league, like that is a coaching point for the league. Like the league will look at that and be like, yes, that's what you should have done. And I hate that it is so soft. Anyway, rant over.
- [24:52]
Robert Mays
I, I 100% agree with that. But that again, those are like there are two sequences in the game where like the other team kind of gets a touchdown that materializes out of nowhere. That really didn't happen in like the normal rhythm of how the game went otherwise for the most part. I mean the Rams offense had another fantastic day against the Seahawks and it was such a strange version of the game. Derek. I mean I think some of it is driven by the fact that and the broadcast hit on this into the second half and I had noticed it kind of going back and rewatching a bunch of the plays. But then especially when I was looking at some of the stats at halftime, the Seahawks were just playing in and crazy amount of man coverage in this game, like a crazy amount of it. They were at 58.8% at halftime per Next Gen Stats. 58.8%. I wish I had gone and looked at what, how that compared to any half the Seahawks had played all year. I guarantee you it was maybe double any other half they had played all season. Maybe the first Niners game is like the only example where that's not the case.
- [25:50]
Dave Hellman
Talk for long enough and I'll try to find your answer for you.
- [25:53]
Derek Classen
And you know what's funny is the, the first third down of the game, I think it was like a third and three or something like that. The, the Seahawks did run, man, they ran like a little bit of like one robber where the safety is coming down. And I was like, oh, interesting change up here for the Seattle Seahawks defense. And then for the like entire rest of the game they tried to do that. It was. This part of the game is going to be, as it always is, incredible to go back and watch on film because it just felt like so much of how the Rams move the ball was either stuff they actually don't do a lot or Stafford making an unbelievable throw like, like right past somebody's fingertips. So there were all those moments which we'll talk about, but then there were just a couple of stuff that I thought the Rams did that they don't do a whole lot of. They popped like two or three draw runs for like really successful gains. One of them got them a first down which they don't call a whole lot of like under center draw. I thought that was like a really nice just change up that they were able to find there.
- [26:43]
Robert Mays
It was awesome. It was the only way they were able to run the ball out of 11 personnel. It was the really way they were able to run the ball out of 11 personnel in this game is with those two second and long draws that they had. And then the problem was, was they went back to it one too many times. That second and 15 late in the game where they only get three yards on it and sets up that third and 12. That's one where I'm like, ah, I'm not running a draw on second and 15. Like I think early in the game it's like somewhat more normal down in distance. That was the one time where I was like, I think they went back to the well one too many times.
- [27:13]
Dave Hellman
Okay.
- [27:14]
Derek Classen
And by then you've already kind of shown your hand.
- [27:16]
Dave Hellman
The Seahawks played 59% man in the first half against the Rams. The next highest after that all year, 46% also against the Rams in the first game.
- [27:27]
Robert Mays
Interesting pick up on that in real time when it was happening. But they've done.
- [27:32]
Dave Hellman
They like. They ran 40% man against the Colts in the first half. But like for the most part, I mean it.
- [27:38]
Derek Classen
The.
- [27:39]
Dave Hellman
The average for the season is 22%. So I mean a lot more than usual for sure.
- [27:44]
Robert Mays
And when you look at just the stuff that was working for the Rams in this game, I mean, Derek, did you imagine. Imagine a scenario where the Rams most important and effective plays in the passing game. We're just going to be like one on one go ball shots down the sideline. Like I just. That's not a version of this game that I anticipated. And how many of those had to happen? You have the one to Puka down the right sideline against Spoon on the. I think it was maybe the second drive where they end up kicking the field goal. You obviously have the. There's a fade to Devonte which happens. Trying to find it in my notes. There's the fade to Devonte that happens at some point in the second half. And to me, the coolest part about that play is so that that drive starts first of all, that drive starts with that big over route to Parkinson off play.
- [28:30]
Derek Classen
That's like the four play touchdown drive, right?
- [28:31]
Robert Mays
That Stafford just like.
- [28:33]
Derek Classen
Yeah.
- [28:33]
Robert Mays
The layering on that throw to Parkinson s on that big over route is just so crazy good out of 13 personnel. And then they hit a fade to Devonte Adams. And the coolest part about that faded Devonte Adams right where they. That was the drive where they went down 24 to 20. So they hit that fade to Devonte is against Josh Jobe who's like isolated on that side. And my favorite part about that is in the first half there was a third and five. It was that sequence where Amanwari had the multiple pbus in a row. And so on third down on that drive, if you look at the way the play unfolds, that zone this was man. But on that play, Stafford has Devonte on a fade against Josh Jobe. He turns it down and checks it down to the back. The Eminwari just eats up and they're punting. And if you watch the plays actually as they happen in real time, the. The safety is Julian Love on both of them. He's on the hash on both plays. So man, Zone, whatever it is a choice. I'm going to take this fade with him on the hash or I'm not. And so he didn't the first time. Ends up biting them. They're punting. On the second one, he's like it, like I'm taking my shot to my guy and he throws a beautiful ball. And there are plenty of those. I mean a ton of really good down the field strikes from the Rams over this entire game. I don't have the numbers in front of me. I'm curious like what the explosive play rate combined with any other, especially down the field. Like explosive plays down the field, like 20 plus air yard throws. In this game versus any other game the Seahawks have played. It's gotta be night and day.
- [30:04]
Derek Classen
Well, and after the whole Woolen taunting thing, like the Rams get into the end zone cause they throw a go ball to Pukinakua, which is just nasty work.
- [30:11]
Robert Mays
Good to go after that guy as he's tilting is an incredible choice.
- [30:15]
Dave Hellman
Yeah.
- [30:16]
Derek Classen
Again, both play call is doing a really good job of like we just frustrated this corner let's go out of again. So again, yeah, just their ability to. And it wasn't just the downfield stuff with a lot of one on one. There were so many instances in this game where Rams were creating three by one or four by one after the snap and just taking that isolated player and being like, we're going to throw goalball here, we're going to throw deep stop route, we're going to throw dig. We're just going to trust our guy to win one on one. And there were a couple of cases where Tariq Woolen makes a really great play or you know, whoever it was just makes like a really good play on the ball. But the Rams were very confident playing a lot of ISO ball, which I thought was really, really interesting, especially since over the last like three weeks it just didn't seem like Devonte Adams had been fully healthy, but he had the one. I think my favorite devonte Adams play in this entire game was it was second and six. Early in the second quarter, he just bullies through Devon Witherspoon and just like throws him down. At the top of his break on a slant route, Stafford pins a right, he goes and runs for another 15, 20 yards or whatever it was. So their ability to challenge the Seahawks corners and really play a lot of one on one ISO ball again, they lost a couple of those reps, but they won more of them than I would have thought. And they definitely won enough to have won this game if like one or two other things had went their way.
- [31:28]
Robert Mays
And that same point we made about the Seahawks, the only way you can play this game the way the Rams did it and how they pushed the ball down the field. Your pass protection against a fantastic front front has to be really good. And for the most part in this game it was. I mean, the Seahawks defense and the Seahawks defensive front specifically is capable of taking over and controlling any game they play. We said it might have happened when we did the preview show and that that just did not happen. Like Stafford for the most part had enough time to do what he wanted to throw in the ball in this game. And that was far from a guarantee. When you think about how good Seattle's front has been all the like the.
- [32:02]
Dave Hellman
Entire season sub 30 pressure race, which, I mean, Stafford gets rid of the ball so quickly. But even still, the. The job they did keeping him clean and also the job Stafford did getting away from pressure when he had to.
- [32:16]
Robert Mays
The Stafford scramble is one of my favorite places.
- [32:19]
Dave Hellman
Think about, think about how big it would like how large it would loom in this game. The fourth down where DeMarcus Lawrence had him dead to rights and he somehow willed his way past the sticks. I mean, what a play that, like I said at the top, that drive was just so excellent. Like the stuff Stafford was doing, the, the degree to which he was dialed in. And then Mike McDonald had a wonderful play call like just mugging the entire line on 4th and gotta have it and just dropping everybody back. He gets the last laugh. But oh man, that was. It was pure adrenaline watching Stafford deal with that all the way down the field.
- [32:58]
Robert Mays
I mean you. That. That drive from the Rams period was just. He was just taken. Check down, check down, check down. Just like so methodical. And it was impressive sequence in just the way that he was playing. And then you get down into the red zone and the Seahawks with multiple just huge plays. And so em and worry had that stretch where he had the second and second and five and third and five PBUs in the first half. And then in the second half you have the third and four and the fourth and four and Witherspoon gets the PBU on both of them. He's on Mumfield on the first one and then on the second one you mentioned it. Seahawks are totally mugged up. Looks like it might be cover zero. And instead of bringing seven on that play play they bring two and a half, right. And Julian Love specifically does such a great job of peeling with the back on that play where that would have been the quick outlet if Stafford and I think that's where Stafford wanted to go. They not only just doing love do it. Lawrence also peels off with him on that play. So there's nowhere for Stafford to quickly go with the ball. And the coverage from Weatherspoon on that like backside bender by Terrence Ferguson, he's, he is in his hip pocket step for step and gets a pass breakup and essentially wins the game for the Seahawks after, before that last drive. So just the Rams for the most part, I mean in this game with a 48% success rate, they have a 55% drop back success rate against the best defense in the NFL and but ultimately it comes down to one or two like high leverage moments, red zone moments and the Seahawks defense does what it needs to do.
- [34:29]
Dave Hellman
So cool. Just.
- [34:32]
Robert Mays
Unbelievable football game.
- [34:34]
Dave Hellman
Everything I could have wanted to be.
- [34:36]
Derek Classen
Again the fact that these teams played three times in all three games were if we listed like the best dozen games of the year, they might all be in there. Like what, just what a treat that we got to watch this for the NFC Championship.
- [34:48]
Robert Mays
All right, before we get to the rest of this game, let's take a quick break. What if sports were traded like markets? Now you can put your sports IQ to work in real time with Robinhood Prediction Market Markets. It's not you against the house. It's you participating in a live market. You can buy or sell your positions.
- [35:06]
Dave Hellman
Live all game long.
- [35:08]
Robert Mays
Use your sports knowledge in the moments that matter. Robinhood Prediction Markets changes the game. It's people moving the action so when momentum shifts, you can move with it. I always knew the game but never had a dynamic way to apply that knowledge. Now I can actually take part.
- [35:23]
Dave Hellman
Live in a market powered by people.
- [35:25]
Robert Mays
People you're no longer just a spectator.
- [35:28]
Dave Hellman
Play by play, you decide.
- [35:30]
Robert Mays
Trade every play with Robinhood now available.
- [35:34]
Dave Hellman
Across the U.S. download the Robinhood app.
- [35:36]
Robert Mays
Now to begin futures and clear swaps. Trading involves significant risk and is not appropriate for everyone. Tonight contracts are offered by Robinhood Derivatives llc, a registered futures commission, merchant and swap firm.
- [35:48]
Dave Hellman
Want to turn challenges into chances?
- [35:51]
Robert Mays
Go digital enterprise and adapt to every.
- [35:54]
Dave Hellman
Change by combining the real and digital worlds.
- [35:59]
Ad Voice
Transform the everyday with Siemens Flowers die in three days. Matching underwear from Meundies. That's a gift that lasts. Meundies creates matching prints for couples and friends. Same adorable designs and different cuts for each of you. All made from their signature ultramodal fabric that feels impossibly soft. With 30 million pairs sold and 90,000 five star reviews, MeUndie's matching prints are the perfect gift gift. Valentine's Day is February 14th, so don't wait. Get exclusive deals up to 50% off at Meundies.com acast code acast that's me. Undies.com acast code accast.
- [36:41]
Robert Mays
The only. I think the last thing that's worth talking about just and how the game ultimately went is the decision. The, the timeouts is kind of like whatever like they call the final time out at 3:05. I think that we've seen more and more teams start doing um. Ben Johnson does that a lot where like calling timeouts really, really early to preserve as much clock as possible. I'd be curious what the actual analytics say about that, but I think there's probably some merit to approaching it that way. The fourth and four going forward in that situation, the numbers will tell you to go for it. I'm fine going for that. Like you kick a field goal, you still need another score and so try to score the touchdown there. I think the numbers will support it in that moment and anecdotally I support it in that moment. The one mistake that I think is worth bringing up just in terms of game management from them not going for two when you score the touchdown to go down 31, 27, that feels like an unforced error because there's really no downside to that. If you don't end up getting the field the extra point, you're down 31, 26. And so even if they were to kick a field goal at some point, you're still only down one score and you need the two pointer anyway. And so to make that 31, 28, if that's the score in that moment, you don't need to worry about going forward on fourth and four. You can kick that field goal and just kind of go on with the game. And so in terms of like the game management choices, that's absolutely the one I have the biggest issue with from McVeigh. But all the other stuff, I'm pretty okay with how it went.
- [38:04]
Dave Hellman
The only thing I would say there, and I think it's, it's valid to bring that up. That happens with two minutes to play in the third. Right. And the way the game was going, I just would never have guessed that no points would be scored in the fourth quarter.
- [38:17]
Robert Mays
You're right.
- [38:18]
Dave Hellman
But you never know.
- [38:19]
Robert Mays
I mean that's one where like it's that. That feels like a free decision to just be like we're just going to make a three point game like you.
- [38:25]
Derek Classen
Said it doesn't hurt you.
- [38:27]
Robert Mays
The downside to me there's just not that much downside side. And so to, to not do that I think ultimately does come back to bite them. But it, I'm not going to sit here and like on Sean McVeigh for a, a failed four failed two point conversion decision at the end of the third quarter when the Seahawks played just a phenomenal football game, that, that was not the difference in this one.
- [38:47]
Dave Hellman
I'm glad you bring it up though. Cause it just reminded me and they showed him on the broadcast. And I don't mean this as a criticism. It's, it's just fascinating to think about. But McVay, they will call a timeout to get into the right play call. He fricking loves doing it and he doesn't do it on the fourth and goal and he just decides to let it ride. And like understandably so because if you don't get it, you're going to need every timeout.
- [39:08]
Robert Mays
And so they ran out of time anyway.
- [39:09]
Dave Hellman
He swallows his, he decides not to do it to keep the timeouts and it doesn't make a difference. And I, like I said, it's not a criticism. But knowing Sean McVeigh, he's probably going to lose sleep about like, oh, what could I, what play call could I have gotten into if I had called timeout right there? And would we have taken the lead? And that's fun to think about. I don't think he did anything wrong. I think, I think he did it the right way. You gotta keep your timeouts in that, in that situation. But I bet he's not gonna feel that way when he wakes up thinking about it tonight.
- [39:38]
Robert Mays
But you guys are gonna handle the post mortem on the hangover tomorrow. So I just, I, I want to hit this restrict beat before we move on. I think he's gonna be thinking about this entire season. You know, I, I, this is gonna be one of those where the Seahawks were. The Seahawks are an awesome team. Just an awesome team. And top to bottom and like for the offense to be able to have this gear in this moment and pick up the defense when the defense has been just the centerpiece of the team for most of the season, just really does speak to how complete they are. They get the big special teams play which has happened for them over and over and over again all year. They're starting on the 35 every time they get a possession because the other team doesn't want to kick. To Rashid Shahid, who had his own big moment in this game. So credit to John Schneider for that. That. But the. Their Seahawks are an incredible team. But we talked about the setting in the Rams. This felt like everything was kind of falling into place. You know, you had an MVP caliber season from a 38 year old quarterback that's been consistently banged up. Was it going to be were you going to have a better chance than this with McVeigh and Stafford still in town? And I think the answer is probably no. And so to fall short, knowing that's the case and knowing how many things fell into place here for you to steal another one before the end of this little mini era ends, this is going to be one that sticks with them for a very, very long time. You could feel during the game how much McVay wanted it.
- [41:03]
Derek Classen
Well, you could feel me too. To me too. This was like Matthew Stafford and this Rams offense, the way they've put it together. This really felt like the only offense that can do this to the Seahawks defense.
- [41:16]
Robert Mays
Yeah.
- [41:17]
Derek Classen
And the fact that it still wasn't quite enough in the end is, is that hurts a lot. It hurts a lot.
- [41:22]
Dave Hellman
I don't, I don't say this to dogpile on Xavier Smith. Cause like I said, if it didn't happen to him, it would happen to somebody else. But just like think about if, if a handful of special teams breaks go the Rams way, the Eagles game comes to mind. You have an extra point blocked and you miss a field goal against the 49ers, the Rashid she touchdown, the Rashid return against.
- [41:43]
Robert Mays
You might be playing this game at home.
- [41:45]
Dave Hellman
You would be playing this game at home with like three other special teams plays. And of course it comes back to doom you in the postseason. And a team that was so, so good winds up as a wild card and comes as close as they do. Yeah, nobody, nobody on the Rams is going to be sleeping well for at least a couple of weeks.
- [42:02]
Robert Mays
But the Seahawks deserve just so much credit.
- [42:05]
Dave Hellman
Not to take any credit away from Seattle.
- [42:07]
Robert Mays
It's just. And Mike McDonald was hired to be the Sean McVeigh stopper and Kyle Shanahan. And so for him to beat both of them en route to getting to the super bowl is just such proof of concept for everything that you want to wanted when you hired him to be your head coach. And we talk about it, you know, when we decided like was he the coach of the year? And for me the argument, one of the arguments for it is to have last season happen. And this happens where you're a first time head coach, you know, you're Scrambling to put a staff together and, you know, you make a decision somewhat out of convenience for who your first offensive coordinator is. It goes poorly. You know, it just, it never came together. They never played a style. Last year, in his first year on offense that I think McDonald was ever comfortable with. And so for him to go out and after one year be like, all right, we're cutting bait, starting over. What is my ver. Like, what's my vision for what I want the offense to be? And I think it's so telling that he went out and got Clint Kubiak because think about life as a defensive coach in the NFL who makes it hardest on me? Like, what is the type of offense that makes it hardest on me? And I think for McDonald's specifically, it was always those offenses where the run and the pass are tied together, where everything is cohesive, everything builds off of each other. And if you watch the Seahawks offense from last year, it was the exact opposite of that. There was zero cohesion between what the run and the pass was. And so to go the exact opposite direction in a very intentional way to go seek out this sort of offense, he deserves credit for that. And Kubiak has been even better than you ever could have imagined. We've talked about this and Derek, I think the first time we ever hit was after the Thursday night game against Arizona, where seeking out this type of system, that's a structural choice. There is a difference between offensive structure and offensive execution. Play calling is the expression of that execution. And Kubiak, so often this year it wasn't just we're going to use a bunch of heavy bodies and we're going to use a lot of play action. His play calling feel and his ability to understand what were the right buttons to push levers to pull in the moment has consistently come over up all the way through this season. And I think you can make a serious argument that given the stage, given the outcome, given the results, this is the best performance that Clint Kubiak had the entire year.
- [44:25]
Derek Classen
I mean, it's like being a pitcher, right? You can have all the right stuff, but if you don't know when to throw it and how to throw it and where to, like, you know, how to paint the plate, like it doesn't really matter. And I do think that was the part of the Kubiak thing that surprised me. Like, you could have sold me that the system would help the offensive line a little bit and it would keep Sam Darnold on the rails and all that sort of stuff. But I Just, just some of the situational stuff in the specific game planning stuff. Like all the three or four different moments that we talked about in this game where he's picking on something specific with the Rams. That part of it I just, you know, he'd never really had a good enough roster with New Orleans to really be able to flash enough of that like they had the first two weeks, but that's like the first two weeks of the season is kind of fake. And so the fact that we got such proof of concept over the course of this year and really did build in different ways, like obviously over. I know Sam Darnold threw the ball a lot in this game, but for the last like six, seven weeks, it's really been more of a rushing attack and he's adapted to that incredibly well. Exactly. Like the fact that they've. He's been able to oscillate and really go between both of the worlds. I just, I didn't know if he had that and he clearly does.
- [45:24]
Dave Hellman
We said this on, we've said this a few times since the Seahawks really got rolling, but it's just so cool and wild that like everything you could have daydreamed about about didn't just come to fruition but like hit. You know what I mean? Like, you do the Darnold thing. Everything you do the Darnold thing. He has a career year. You bring in Cooper cup. He doesn't light the world on fire. But he just scored a touchdown for you to win this game.
- [45:48]
Robert Mays
This game. He draw that. Did the defensive hold that he drew.
- [45:50]
Dave Hellman
He had a JSN makes the leap. Byron Murphy makes the leap. You got a defensive rookie of the year candidate playing on one side so.
- [46:00]
Robert Mays
Much of who you want to be defensively.
- [46:02]
Dave Hellman
If we gave offensive rookie of the year to offensive lineman Gray Zable would at least be on the podium 100%. Like he is absolutely phenomenal. Rasheed Shahid makes. He makes six plays all year, but all six of them swing games for you. Just every single decision that they made going back to March wasn't just good, it was like a home run. And now you're in the super bowl.
- [46:24]
Robert Mays
And it's co. Now you're on the doorstep of the super bowl where you will play the New England Patriots. Before we get to Broncos Patriots, let's take one more quick break. Everyone deserves to be connected. That's why T Mobile and US Cellular are joining forces. Switch to T Mobile and save up to 20% versus Verizon by getting built in benefits. They leave out. Check the math@t mobile.com switch and now T Mobile is in US cellular stores. Savings versus Comparable Verizon plans plus the cost of optional benefits, plan features and Texas and fees vary. Savings with three plus lines include third line free via monthly bill credits Credit stop if you cancel any lines. Qualifying credit required. A password manager should be the first security purchase you make for your team. Why?
- [47:10]
Dave Hellman
Because compromised passwords are the number one.
- [47:13]
Robert Mays
Way bad actors attack companies, and small businesses are their favorite targets. But unlike a lot of security challenges, passwords actually have a pretty simple solution. 1Password lets you manage all your business's.
- [47:25]
Dave Hellman
Credentials so you can feel confident that.
- [47:27]
Robert Mays
Your data stays secure as your company grows. Find out more at 1Password.com specialoffer and.
- [47:35]
Ad Voice
Start securing every login behind every scaled company is a founder who started with nothing but a scrappy idea and a willingness to take the leap. The podcast Long Strange CEO to CEO dives into those beginnings with leaders who built their company from the ground up to unpack the early case chaos, the pivotal choices, and the moments that changed everything. In each episode of Long Strange Trip, Brian Halligan, co founder of HubSpot, speaks with leaders to unpack the real stories behind scaling their companies, everything from the emotional toll of leadership to the tactical decisions that shape a company's future. Learn from leaders like Vlad Tenev of Robinhood, Parker Conrad of Rippling, Sasan Godzari of Intuit, and more. Whether you're an aspiring founder, seasoned CEO, or simply curious about the stories behind the CEOs on the long Strange trip of building endearing legendary companies, this is a show you can't miss. Tune in to Sequoia's new show, Long Strange Trip to hear from some of the top CEOs who are defining the new CEO rulebook. Long strange Trip is available everywhere you get your podcasts. Listen to Long Strange Trip today.
- [48:42]
Robert Mays
Fun for me, it's my first Super bowl was Patriots Seahawks after the 2014 season half that day. The ball behind us is from that super bowl as a way to like quietly commemorate that. And so the fact that this is a Super bowl rematch that between two teams and it harkens back to a Super bowl is very important to me is extremely fun. But let's dig into that. Patriots win the New England Patriots win a very weird game 10 to 7. Can I just say on their way.
- [49:10]
Dave Hellman
To the Super Bowl, I said this to you during the game and look, I'm not clearly this was a weird game and the weather got in the way and it's fine.
- [49:18]
Derek Classen
Oh did it?
- [49:18]
Robert Mays
I just, I just saw Drake May's style and I had not seen it yet.
- [49:21]
Dave Hellman
Oh, it's, it's horrendous.
- [49:23]
Derek Classen
Completely insane.
- [49:24]
Dave Hellman
I, I, I genuinely love that these two games happened on the same day. And like it's, we need a reminder if I, I don't care. Even having watched that and even knowing that it was a disappointing end to the AFC season for just people that want to see good football. I love that football can be wildly influenced by like when you play and where you play the game. And if you want to sit through a three hour, conditions are better. Go watch baseball. I, I like that about football. You gotta find a way to adapt to this shit.
- [49:56]
Robert Mays
Where do you land on this, Derek? As a man who has never had to endure weather in his entire life.
- [50:00]
Derek Classen
I, because they don't. I, we remember them because when they happen, they're completely insane and obviously the end of this game. But I, I think it's so much of like, I'm okay with it when they happen a little bit sparingly. And the other thing about this game, specifically for like 49, or like maybe not 49, but like almost 45 minutes of this game, it was like relatively normal conditions. Like, it was cold and windy, but it was not the insane blizzard that we remember for the fourth quarter. Like, the first half of this game was relatively decent conditions. There was not snow on the ground and it was still disgusting football.
- [50:36]
Dave Hellman
It didn't even, it didn't get silly until like the fourth quarter though. Like, it was snowing in the third, but it was normal snow games, snow. No, it didn't become unusual until fairly late in the game, I would say.
- [50:48]
Derek Classen
And I think because of that, because the whole game was not played this way because we got three quarters of like relatively normal football and then the end becomes this, like, do you have this gear to you as a team and as a coach? I actually do kind of find it like pretty compelling as, as theater.
- [51:04]
Dave Hellman
If this happened on a regular basis, I might change my mind. But we played 272 regular season games and a dozen playoff games. And if five of those a year us back to 1908, I think that's okay. Yeah, I think it's fine.
- [51:19]
Robert Mays
I land in a, in a place where I'm like, all right, I'm generally supportive of this possibility because the other side of it, where every team just plays in a dome is disgusting to me. Like, I, the like, it's too sterile. Playing all football under sterile conditions and not having any sort of like outdoor. Like the fact that the Bears are building themselves a dome. I, it just makes my skin crawl. Like, I cannot believe that that is going to happen in this town where you have so many fun mom late in seasons where it's cold and like, I just hate that. And so if we're going to stumble into one of these every so often as the price to be paid for playing these games outside and giving them a little bit of character and a little bit of feel to them, that's okay with me. At the same time, when you watch a playoff game where it's not a real football game by the end, that does frustrate me a little bit. Like, I think it's the cost to do in business if we want to play the sport in the way it should be played, like Dave is talking about. But it's still one of those things where I'm like, ah, it's kind of a bummer that like it wasn't really a game for the final quarter.
- [52:21]
Dave Hellman
It is kind of a bummer. But the Broncos lined up for a makeable field goal with five minutes to play and Leonard Taylor just got a finger on it.
- [52:29]
Robert Mays
That's like, it's, yeah, we're just going to, we could have played this, we.
- [52:32]
Dave Hellman
Could have played this game forever. Because if that game is tied and I don't know what the hell was.
- [52:36]
Robert Mays
Going to happen, I'd like to thank Leonard Taylor for making sure that wasn't a 12 hour football game. Because it might have been otherwise.
- [52:41]
Dave Hellman
The Patriots found ways to overcome and to Derek's point, which I never in a million years saw this coming. I didn't think the surface of the field would be unplayable by the end of the game, but Sean Payton didn't have to go for that fourth down in the, like earlier in the game where you had a chance to go up 10, nothing. He opts to do that, which I'm sure the numbers backed him up. But considering that you have a backup quarterback and guess what? NFL teams keep track of forecasts, by the way. Like the Broncos might have had an inkling this was coming even if they didn't know it was going to be that crazy. And so you go for it. You don't get it. These things happen. I, it was a bummer of a game, but I am in favor of games like this being possible.
- [53:23]
Robert Mays
Yes, I'm in favor of games like this being possible. I think it's, it's, it's kind of sucks when they ultimately decide the AFC championship game. But in the end, I'm. I'm fine with that happening every once in a while because I do want to see the weather and the conditions affect the game to an extent. I just want to be able to like pick all a cart how much the weather is affecting the game. So unfortunately, we can't do that. That play you're talking about, obviously just a massive, massive, massive play. So it's 4th and 1 9, 28 left in the second quarter, then the play before, and this is something that will be, I think, completely forgotten. I, I don't, I don't want to hammer him for this decision. Cause I can understand turning it down, but I don't think he even looks at it. The play before the 4th and 1, it's 3rd and 6 for the Broncos. Patriots send a big pressure coming off the left side and Stidham actually has little Jordan Humphrey. And I think it was Carlton Davis is going to close down on it. But if he throws that ball immediately, that is a completion that he leaves on the board. And it ultimately goes to fourth and one because he takes off and scrambles on that play. If you go back and watch third and six, he immediately runs to the right side instead of trying to potentially make that throw. So that's kind of a sliding doors moment. But then you get to the fourth and one, and on that play, Derek, I don't know what your read on it was, but felt like the Broncos just kind of botched the protection. I mean, you look at it and you have two guys like Milt Williams just comes completely unblocked. Miners blocks nobody. The left guard and the center block the same guy. And so it just torpedoes the play before it even has a chance to get started.
- [54:52]
Derek Classen
I mean, my guess there is that I think it's 46, Adam Prentice. I would guess he's like, he's blocking n man on the line of scrimmage, right, which closest one to him is Jelani Tavi. But like Milton Williams ends up being the one who is the bigger threat. But he's lined up so much more inside and kind of stunts outside at the snap. I actually think it was just like kind of a good overload call from, from the Patriots. And like, I just, I really didn't hate the decision to go for it because I almost think, like, I almost think in my mind, if the weather is coming, I don't want to just take points. I actually do want to rack up as much as I can and make the other team score on us. When it starts, just, you know, snowing everywhere in the fourth quarter. So I didn't hit the decision. I thought the play call, I think again was just like a pretty good call from New England. And Milton Williams gets a there immediately. And Stidham had some moments as a runner and as an athlete in this game, but he's not going to get away from an athlete like that right in his face.
- [55:41]
Robert Mays
So you have that. And then the other play when the Broncos offense is on the field that ends up swinging the game is the fumble. I mean the intentional grounding that turns into a fumble on that backward pass.
- [55:54]
Derek Classen
Speaking of blowing protection, I don't understand what Denver is doing on that play because they, New England only had two guys over set to the left hand side, like to Denver's left, but they have four potential rushers set over to the right hand side, but they end up sliding it to the left. The back doesn't stay in on protection on that right side. He's actually going from right to left crossing the formation. So I was just like confused why both the back and the center went to the left. I know they had some like pre snap checks where stum was moving guys around and they tried to reload the formation. And so maybe guys just got a little bit mixed up about where the slide was supposed to go or what the back was supposed to do, but they pretty much moved all of their protection away from where all of the potential, the potential New England rushers were in. One got free immediately and just didn't really have an answer for it.
- [56:42]
Robert Mays
Yeah. And that. And he just makes a bad play. Catastrophic.
- [56:44]
Ad Voice
Right.
- [56:44]
Robert Mays
I mean, like that's just the one thing that you cannot do in that situation, especially when your defense is playing the way that it was. I mean, that the Broncos defense in this game was incredibly good. Like you can count on one hand the really important, important, crucial moments that the, the Patriots offense had over the course of the entire game. You have the huge scramble, the huge second down scramble from May that sets up the first, that sets up the field goal drive for the Patriots, which, I mean, what May did with his legs in this game, you have this scramble, you have the design quarterback draw for the touchdown. And then obviously the final play of the game, that final third and six, where apparently that was not the corner call. He like kind of freelanced in that moment.
- [57:29]
Dave Hellman
I missed that. Wow.
- [57:30]
Robert Mays
Andrew Callahan, I believe is his name, who writes for the Boston Herald, wrote that apparently that was not the call. And May didn't tell anyone in the huddle that he was planning on doing.
- [57:39]
Dave Hellman
That, that looked like so obviously the call that I was like McDaniels genius. Like wow, good for you, Drake May. That's incredible.
- [57:48]
Robert Mays
So you have the plays he made with his legs, you have the flea floor flicker and that's like it. That's it.
- [57:56]
Derek Classen
So the flea flicker I want to talk about because on, on one hand it's an insane call in the weather. Like to, to have that amount of ball handling in the weather is crazy. We like shit on Dave Canales for trying that a little bit earlier. Like it's a completely insane thing to do. But one, they actually execute it pretty cleanly and pretty well. Drake May has to step up and make pressure. But the reason I loved it is that he's throwing that big, that big over route to Matt Connor Collins. Because of the weather and especially in the second half, you could see in this game Drake May couldn't really like drive the ball on a rope the way that he wanted to. There was like speed outs he was missing and putting in the ground. There were a couple of dig routes he put in the dirt because he just wasn't able to like drive the ball through a guy's chest. But that's a layered throw. That's like I can just put some air on this and put it up and over a guy. That to me is just. It's such like a niche little like we need an answer for something to get something going in the passing game. I thought it was a great call and it's obviously just, just a phenomenal throw in that moment.
- [58:50]
Robert Mays
My favorite part of that play. And he. There were four or five moments and I no reason like go through all of them in my notes, but Randre Stevenson had a bunch of really nice moments in pass protection in this game. And so if you watch what happens on that flea flicker, he gets the ball, flips it back to Drake May and I can't remember who it was, but it might have been Singleton was kind of coming untouched on that play. And unless Stevenson picks him off after tossing that ball back to May, he is not going to have time to get that throw off. And there were multiple really nice moments from Madre Stevenson in pass protection.
- [59:25]
Derek Classen
The scramble where he gets them into the 30 yard line like that. Stevenson like taking the mugged up a gap player and just punching him in the mouth. And it gave me some space.
- [59:32]
Robert Mays
There was one where he did a he I think it was. Somebody was coming on, touched off the left edge and he picked him up and he again like four or five really Nice moments from Madre Stevenson in pass protection and that those three handful of plays that the Bronco or the Patriots had, there's a reason for that. Like the Broncos defense in this game. I think two things really stood out to me. One, the Patriots front or offensive line really had no shot against that Broncos front. And that's the area that I would be most concerned about if I were a Patriots fan heading into this game against Seattle. Like you are outgunned when it comes to your offensive line against this team. Morgan Moses got dusted by, I think it was Jonathan Cooper at one point early in the game. Will Campbell has, I mean multiple plays where they're just trying to cut quickly that end up going horribly for them. And Nick Bonito is affecting these players plays. And so that was happening consistently and I thought the Broncos defense did such a good job of passing things off in man coverage on third down. There were like multiple really nice moments of that in the game. The first play, the first drive for the New England where it's a near pick, I think it was to Funga. May thinks that Huang is getting cleared out and man coverage on that play, he falls back on it, nearly picks it off. There was a Zach Allen sack on like what was a simulated pressure with like six and a half minutes left in the second quarter. Quarter where they drop out, they drop. It's only. They only bring four. They do a fantastic job passing it off. Drake tries to take off and scramble, gets dropped at the line of scrimmage and then on third and three at the goal line with like six minutes left in the third quarter. The both the Broncos drop off a defensive lineman on that play and then the whole players and McMillan on that play do a fantastic job of passing everything off. And so. So Drake May couldn't do really nothing throwing the ball in this game. Some of that is the pass protection and some of it is you go back and watch these plays, there is nobody open. Like there is absolutely nobody open because of the way the Broncos are playing on the back end.
- [61:29]
Dave Hellman
It's funny you bring up that sack the play before. One of the plays that's going to linger with me longest was the direct snap to Stevenson.
- [61:38]
Robert Mays
Yeah.
- [61:38]
Dave Hellman
Where they kind of rigged it up to make it look like a fumble, which I love the play call. And Talano Hu Funga just destroyed it. And maybe if it's a cleaner snap, it goes differently. But the Broncos were keyed in on everything. And yeah, I guess we haven't brought that sequence up. But ultimately the quarterback sneak that gets spotted as a first down. And again, like I said about the. The Seahawks Rams game, like, when this happens, this was before the weather had really come in. And I'm like, okay, well, didn't really look like Drake May got that, but you hold him to a field goal, it's 10, seven, you got plenty of ball game left. And I, I had no idea how few real scoring opportunities would be left in this game at the time.
- [62:22]
Robert Mays
And that drive, there was a third on that drive where they kicked the field goal. I think it speaks to the mindset that Josh McDaniels had in this game, and I kind of don't blame him. Given you're playing in certain conditions, you know that the conditions are probably going to get worse. You're playing against the backup quarterback back. Just don't torpedo the game. Like, just do not make the sort of mistakes that will torpedo the game. That play that you're talking about, that fourth and one sneak, the play before is third and 10, and they were on a tight end screen. That was. That was the mindset from the Patriots in most of this game. It was like, we are not going to make the catastrophic mistake that's going to allow you guys to get back into this thing.
- [63:00]
Derek Classen
And I actually had that in my notes. I thought that was an unbelievable effort from Hunter Henry to, like.
- [63:06]
Robert Mays
You could sneak it.
- [63:08]
Derek Classen
Yeah, like, to get it to fourth and one was like, I thought that was going to be fourth and six, five. Like, it just did not look like that play had anything left for it. And so I thought that was an insane effort. I think the thing I really want to say about Drake May, obviously the passing stats are bad because, yeah, conditions. Broncos defense played out of their mind both in coverage. And I thought they tackled incredibly well in this game. But what really stuck with me about May in this game is right after that Allen sack. Is it. It felt to me up to that point, Drake May just wouldn't go. He just, like, would not pull the ripcord and scramble. He was trying to stay in the pocket. He was trying to make these plays. He was waiting too long. He just didn't feel like he was ready to just sprint through the A gap. And after that moment is when you finally got some of the scrambles where he's taking off, getting them into the red zone. They start calling quarterback draw for him. Obviously, he takes the final play where he just boots out. Like he. It felt like for the first quarter and a half, he was a little, little just kind of stuffy in the pocket and didn't quite know what to do with himself. And the fact that he kind of eased into the game and realized, oh, the only way I can win this is if I just take off and do this myself. I thought that was like a small moment of like, good job, young man. That's. That's like the correct way to have played this game out.
- [64:17]
Robert Mays
He.
- [64:17]
Dave Hellman
He looked shook in the early going of this game between the way Denver was playing and the protection. There was a, there was a third down early. I think it was after the. Denver went up seven nothing where they just. Yeah, it was, it was third and 15. He had just gotten sacked and so you're already. You're backed up anyway. And they just called like a, you know, he, it was like a dumb little out to the flat just to try, you know, get, get out of here. And he shorted it to Stevenson and I was like, ooh, we got to work through some things here. But he eventually did.
- [64:51]
Robert Mays
I mean, in just all the moments in the second half where the Patriots again were just like, we're just not losing this thing. There was a third and 10. 10 where they just like had like a sprint out throwaway in the fourth quarter. We just like chuck the way he chucked the ball out of bounds.
- [65:03]
Ad Voice
Crazy.
- [65:03]
Dave Hellman
The per. The most perfect example of what this game devolved into is a give up. A give up. Like I've only. You only. You usually only see those types of things when you're trying to like kill seconds off the clock at the end of a half. And to do it in the middle of the fourth quarter was really funny.
- [65:23]
Robert Mays
And then the. There even early in the game, I could just tell that I think they were really playing a risk averse sort of version of things where there was that second down in the first half where they threw a bubble screen to Stefan Diggs. Just got completely blown up. They had a third and five late in the first half where again, I know it was quick game because they had both the tackles cut and they just threw like a little flat route to Hunter Henry and was just like a punt is okay here. And so it's. The Broncos defense is fantastic. I think the Patriots played an ultra conservative sort of game on offense because in their minds, as long as we don't beat ourselves, their offense with a backup quarterback is not going to have enough against our defense. And ultimately they were right. I mean, it took a block field goal, it took a fourth and one failure and it took the weather ruining the game in the second half. But Ultimately that it was a, an approach that paid off for them in the long run. I guess that's what I'll say.
- [66:15]
Derek Classen
And actually kind of speaking of the field goal, other small moment we forgot, I actually thought about Dave when, when this happened, the Broncos missed a field goal before the half, which like we joked about, like if they're, if they're going to win the super bowl, especially now with a backup quarterback, Dave said they're going to have to will lutz their way into the Super Bowl. And you have that one missed and then you get the one blocked that maybe that goes in. If that doesn't get blocked, those six points win you the game. If New England doesn't get into the end zone at any other point or doesn't put up any more points of their own. So like those small moments were huge. And then the last one I really want to bring up is the Stidham interception he throws at the end. Obviously conditions are terrible, all that other stuff, but the part of it that was impressive to me and goes back to like having to figure out how to win these games. The clock is running and Denver is trying to sub on a player late and Vrabel does the thing again where he's like, oh, you're subbing. We're going to get our 300 pound defensive lineman and move them a little bit on and off the field and submit.
- [67:09]
Robert Mays
Let me get my slowest running players to jog very casually on here and burn off another few seconds and like.
- [67:15]
Derek Classen
The last guy gets off the field with like 4 seconds, 3 seconds on the clock. And so stum's just got to go immediately. He can't reset, do anything and then he just kind of chucks one up. Gonzalez does an incredible job of knowing what's coming and that's pretty much the game right there.
- [67:29]
Dave Hellman
I can't believe some people don't view Variable as like a cerebral coach. Like I feel, I feel like that is, I don't know, that's the line on him for some people. And I just couldn't disagree more.
- [67:39]
Robert Mays
I mean, I said it when they beat the Chargers, like what does your CEO coach do for you? What's he doing for you? And Mike Vrabel as that type of CEO, CEO coach does a lot in those game management situations for these teams.
- [67:49]
Dave Hellman
Real quick since Derek brought up special teams. While it's on my brain, it's going to get consigned to the scrap heap of history. Jeremy Crawshaw was amazing in this game.
- [68:00]
Robert Mays
Yeah, he was so good.
- [68:02]
Dave Hellman
I Don't. I'm not even kidding.
- [68:04]
Robert Mays
I know.
- [68:06]
Dave Hellman
51 net yards per punt. He allowed two punt return yards on the day, six punts, two return yards allowed. He pinned three inside the 20 and I believe two inside the 10. Like he gave the gave the Broncos a chance to let the Patriots muck this up many times and the Patriots just didn't take the bait. But it was an outstanding punting performance and he had a couple good ones last week as well. Like that's pretty, pretty nice from a rookie punter.
- [68:35]
Robert Mays
Very strange run to the super bowl for the Patriots. Just like a very strange collection of games. And it's not even like to disparage what it has been. But you just think about what their offense hasn't had to do because of how bad the other offenses had been and what their defense has done. I mean, they dismantle the Chargers in the first round. They play a disgusting game against the Texans, Texans in round two, and then they play this game against a backup quarterback in a snowstorm in round three. And so I think I can pretty safely say that in San Francisco two weeks from today, the offense will have to do more than it has done in its three previous playoff games that they're going to beat the Seahawks. Not saying they can't, but they're going to have to do more than they've done.
- [69:23]
Dave Hellman
It is wild how they've simultaneously, I mean, they've taken what Drake May has not. Now, I don't know, let me rephrase that because you can't say Drake May has done something when you pass for 86 yards in a game. But the Patriots have taken down two of the best defenses in the NFL back to back, including a Chargers defense that is also no slouch.
- [69:44]
Robert Mays
Well, they, the Patriots, before the playoffs started, had played against one team that finished in the top 10 in defensive DVOA. This season it was just the Browns. That's it in the playoffs. They've already played against three of them. Yep. And then now we'll play against a fourth one that was the best defense in football.
- [70:03]
Dave Hellman
Which, and I said before the Texans game, like, if they win that game, I don't want to hear any of the qualifying and I stand by that. I'm, I'm legitimately impressed by what they've done. But you're not, you're not winning the super bowl with the way that Darnold's been, with the way Darnold played today and what we've seen from the Seahawks offensive and what we know about Their defense, you're not winning the super bowl with the offensive performances we've seen the last two weeks because you can even, you can give them a mulligan for what happened in the fourth quarter here. But first of all, plenty of time to play better while the conditions were still good. And we saw what happened even against the Chargers, like, it's not even. Like it was just the Texans in the snow too. Like the Chargers game was very, very ugly. It's not going to get it done.
- [70:44]
Robert Mays
Yeah, the Chargers game, I look back at that game and like the, the ball security stuff and some of the mistakes from Drake may loom large in that game. I do think overall the offense was considerably better game, down to a lot.
- [70:57]
Dave Hellman
Better in wild card weekend than it has the last two. That's definitely fair.
- [71:00]
Derek Classen
Yeah.
- [71:00]
Robert Mays
I mean, over the last two weeks, I mean, obviously today is like the gross, whatever it ends up being. And then last week we, we talked about it. They had those three drives last week where they had like those three slant flat completions and then they had the one pass interference go ball again. And you can remember the moments on like one hand. And then they have the game today, the Chargers game. They only score 16 points in game. But, but down to down it, it's not like they had a 44% success rate in the Charger game. They went 4 of 11 on third down. Drake may put the ball on the ground a couple of times. The, the overall like quality of the offense moment to moment didn't offend me. Against the Chargers the last two weeks it's been pretty offensive and the conditions play into that. But it has not been a good showing for the New England Patriots offense the last two weeks.
- [71:43]
Dave Hellman
Do you think what we got from them against the Chargers is getting it done against the best team in the league?
- [71:48]
Robert Mays
Which. No. Yeah. Because again, the Seahawks offense isn' imploding in the way the Chargers offense did in that game.
- [71:54]
Dave Hellman
I. Yeah, like it was better. I think that's worth saying. And you're fair to point it out, it was not good enough to win the Super Bowl. Unless the fog descends on Levi's Stadium and we get another insane game in.
- [72:07]
Derek Classen
The super bowl, which it's been insanely foggy over here in California over the last couple of weeks, so that is entirely possible.
- [72:14]
Robert Mays
Well, we will be at Levi Stadium two weeks from today. We'll be in San Francisco for all of super bowl week. Very much looking forward to this that you guys are handling the hangover tomorrow. We're going to do some Deeper dive post mortems and look aheads for both the Rams and the Broncos and kind of how the season goes. Just, just one more note on the Bronco. Like to have this sort of season to be in the AFC championship game and then to have to play this game with your backup quarterback, it's a tough way for the Bronco season tent because if Bo Nicks plays in this game, I think there's a very, very real shot that they win this game.
- [72:45]
Dave Hellman
I told you during the game, like, no, I don't say this tongue in cheek like Bo Nick is so well equipped to help you win a game like that. The same way Drake May was three.
- [72:55]
Robert Mays
Or four plays with his legs that Jared sit him could not make.
- [72:57]
Dave Hellman
Yes.
- [72:57]
Robert Mays
And so and I think that you look at some of the plays where Jared Situm's pulling the ripcord a little bit quickly in the pocket in this game. And I just, I think with Bonix there's a very good shot that the Broncos win this game. And so the fact that they weren't playing with a full deck in, in this sort of moment does suck.
- [73:12]
Dave Hellman
We'll definitely get into it on the hangover, but like there's so much reason for optimism about why the Broncos could be back here very soon. But it's the cliche we keep going back to with Dan Campbell where you just, you never know that for sure.
- [73:27]
Robert Mays
The Broncos right now $1.2 million in dead money on their books, which is a pretty significant departure from what things have looked like over the last couple years of that Russell Wilson contract. So they got like $27 million in cap space. You guys are going to talk about that tomorrow. I don't want to let this get there. Right now that is all we've got for today. We will have a full slate of shows coming your guys week, week over. Coming your guys's way over the next week or so. For now, that's all we got. Appreciate you listening. We'll talk to you very soon.
- [74:10]
Dave Hellman
Here's how to stay alive longer so you can enjoy Boost Mobile's unlimited plan with a price that never goes up. Do not mistake a wasp nest for a pinata. Stay alive and switch now at boost mobile. After 30 gigs, customers may experience lower speeds. Customers will pay 25amonth as long as they remain active on the Boost Mobile unlimited plan.
- [74:26]
Robert Mays
Everyone deserves to be connected. That's why T Mobile and US Cellular are joining forces. Switch to T Mobile and save up to 20% versus Verizon by getting built in benefits. They leave out. Check the math@t mobile.com switch and now T mobile is in US cellular stores. Savings versus cash Comparable Verizon plans plus the cost of optional benefits, plan features and taxes and fees vary. Savings with three plus lines include third line free via monthly bill credits. Credit stop if you cancel any lines. Qualifying credit required.
- [74:55]
Derek Classen
Par le francais, hablas espanol par if you've used Babel, you would Babbel's conversation based technique teaches you useful words and phrases to get you speaking quickly about the things you actually talk about in the real world. With lessons handcrafted by over 200 language experts and voiced by real native speakers, Babbel is like having a private tutor in your pocket. Start speaking with Babbel today. Get up to 55% off your Babbel subscription right now at babbel.com acast spelled B A B-B-E-L.com acast rules and restrictions may apply.