← The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL
The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL
Free agency day one, part two: The edge and DB markets fall into place
01:49:18
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A
It's that time of year again for taxes. We all know the stress of the old way of filing. You send your documents off and then absolute radio silence. You're stuck refreshing your inbox and sending awkward just checking in texts, wondering if they've even started. But with TurboTax Expert full service I know my TurboTax Expert takes taxes fully off my plate and updates me every step of the way so I don't have to worry. That way I can get back to the things that matter to me, like going on vacation in the spring or enjoying the NFL off season. So stop chasing updates. It's time to switch to the modern tax filing Solution with Intuit TurboTax the best part? You can get experts progress right on your phone while you go about your day. So go for a run or grab a coffee. You'll know your dedicated expert is handling it, looking for every last deduction to get you the best possible outcome and every dollar you deserve. File with confidence. Visit turbotax.com, only available with TurboTax Full Service Experts Real time updates only in iOS mobile app hi, this is Kim Holderness from the Laugh Lines podcast. Let's talk about spring break. You might be thinking, oh no, Kim, nothing good happens on spring break. Well, I'm here to tell you it's time to redefine our vacation time. We all deserve a getaway that is meaningful but doesn't require a ton of planning. Spring break isn't what it used to be. It's better this spring. Stay three nights and get a $50 Best Western gift card. Life's a trip. Make the most of it at best Western. Visit bestwestern.com for complete terms and conditions. Pro athletes don't spend their time meal prepping. They eat smart, train hard and recover fast. Factor makes it easy with dietitian designed chef prepared meals built to fuel your performance. Choose from High protein, calorie, smart, GLP1 support and vegetarian options designed by nutrition experts to support strength and recovery. Train like a Pro. Eat like a Pro. Right now go to FactorMeals.com healthy50off and use code Healthy50OFF for 50 off and free breakfast for a year. That's FactorMeals.com healthy50OFF code Healthy50OFF. Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mays. Part two of of our Day one Free Agency Stream Hitting your guys podcast feed the audio version of the 4 hour and 45 minute show that we recorded yesterday. If you have listened to Part one, you've already obviously heard my spiel Already. But a fantastic day one of free agency. One of my favorite days in the NFL calendar. We had stuff coming in all day. You know, we start with the Alec Pearson who's going back to Indianapolis. We have stuff like the Tyler Linder bomb contract, the J1 Phillips signing. And here to help us sort through all of it. We had 15 total guests or 16 total guests on our free agency livestream today with me, Dave and Derek had such a blast. So what you're about to listen to is part two of that live stream. I don't know when it's going to start. Don't ask me which signing will be first. But you're listening to the second half of the four and a half hour stream that we did. Hope you guys enjoy it. I know we had a blast recording it. Let's get to it right now. We've come to a lowell, thankfully was when we lost all of our desk. I was going to say it feels
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B
so empty with sit with everybody logging off at the same time.
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A
So nothing new has come across here. For the most part, we're just sitting with everything that we've been talking about.
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B
This is a great opportunity. Then allow me to just be the worst version of myself. We should mention John Harbaugh. Got his guy. Jordan Stout.
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A
I'm gonna go to the bathroom.
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C
Punter deal.
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D
Come on.
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B
All Pro last year.
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D
No, I.
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B
It's very. It's very funny. We said that all. We say that all the time. Like coaches identify their guys and culture and the way we want to do things. And of course, the special teams head coach went out and got his punter for a three year, $12 million deal.
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A
Okay, let's. Let's fire up that jets graphic. Talking about teams that have been a little bit active today. The other New York team, we.
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B
We just did it.
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A
I have.
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B
Nick Folk also signed a deal to go to be with the Atlanta Falcons.
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A
Here's what I'm going to do. You know what? Take the graphic off. We'll talk about the graphic later. I'm gonna give you.
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B
No, I have nothing else.
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A
I'm gonna give you 90 seconds before we have Sando on here to talk about Brandon Aubrey in the second round tender because we didn't do it on yesterday's show. And the fact that you didn't bring it up on yesterday's show was shocking to me.
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B
You know what's funny? All right. I'll actually. I'll zig or I'll zag where you might expect me to zig. And of course, there's there's two sides to this. There's subterfuge and misinformation abounds. But if it's true that the Cowboys offered to put Brandon Aubrey on top of the market by like $200,000 or whatever it is so like mid 7 million per year, if it's true that Aubrey's after 10 then please somebody come take him and give me the second round pick. Like I'm not trying to pay a kicker $10 million a year. If and I would be happy, I would be happy to play to pay Brandon Aubrey at the top of the market. Like if the, if the Cowboys really made an offer and again, you can't take any of this stuff at face value. I think Aubrey said himself that the report that he wanted 10 million was false but that's the report make him the highest paid kicker in the league. But like if he really wants a million or if he's even if he's trying to lender bomb this thing and be like yeah, I know that Butker makes seven whatever or six and a half but I want nine whatever, fine, Rams come get him and we'll take
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A
the second round pick for you're. What you're saying to me is that kickers don't matter.
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B
They do matter but they're all the same. There's a line. There is a line. And also the unpredictability of the position makes me very reluctant to invest that heavily in a kicker. I mean you have guys that can do it at a high level for a decade but they are very, very much the exception. And on top of that, I know you'll love this nerd that you are, Brandon Aubrey actually makes you more conservative.
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E
Yes.
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B
So like I'm fine. Let it of a kicker who makes my coach want to kick it on fourth and three from the plus 38. Like I'm, I'm fine if my coach is like I don't know if our kicker is going to make this, maybe we should go for it.
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A
I, I want us to clip all of this because I use it. I want we, I want everyone to know that Dave is against paying kickers. The kickers are all the same and the last point that he just made is a very important one. Having a good kicker is actually bad for your football.
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B
I am against being held financial hostage by a kicker which don't know for sure.
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A
We all have limits.
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B
We all, we all have our limits.
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A
All right, joining us now, thrilled to have him as part of our big day on the Athletic football show. It is the athletic zone. Mike Sando. Mike, how you doing, man? Great.
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C
How are you?
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B
Love the doing wonderful.
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A
Thank you for joining us. A bit of news as we get back rolling here with our guests. According to Adam schefter, Zion Johnson, 3 years, 49 and a half million dollars from the Cleveland Browns. So depending on where Titus Howard plays, which I think is probably still up for conversation considering The Browns need four to five offensive line starters, we have 40% of the new offensive line for the Cleveland Browns with Zion Johnson and Titus Howard both in the fold. Mike, I you spend all day, every day talking to people at, in Indianapolis at the combine, which happened a week and a half ago. I'm sure you had discussions about what the interior offensive line market might how does the Zion Johnson contract align with what you might have expected at these positions?
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C
You know, it's funny, Robert, is I didn't talk to anyone about the interior guard market or most of these markets working on lots of other types of projects.
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A
So where Zion everybody about.
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C
Here's what's interesting though to me is just the one thing I do, one thing I do do coming out of the combine is I'll have some front office people just stack the top 10 in the draft. And what's funny is we do. I love to do the snapshot after the combine, but all these, all these projections change based on free agency. So we've seen Cleveland basically make two big moves, at least two. Right. Two on the offensive line. So most of these teams are just setting themselves up to not have to take, you know, to, to. To reach maybe for an offensive lineman at wherever that five or six in the draft. So that's how I see it. I think the money part of this always takes time to. Takes time to process because the cap has gone up so much that the idea of a $30 million wide receiver or cornerback, still, it takes. There's a lag time before it feels right. And so I think with we're seeing a Lindenbaum deal with the Raiders, I just almost need time to process it and think it through, you know, before even making sense of it. And that's one of the main reasons I do my free agency analysis sort of after the dust settles. To me, it's hard now to piece together even what these teams are doing because it's all set.
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A
I said, you're telling me I'm sitting here for the next five hours trying to do it?
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C
Yeah.
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A
Yeah.
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C
So, I mean, I do. So what did Zion Johnson get again?
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A
So it's three years, 49 and a half.
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B
Like 16 a year.
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A
About 16 a year. And the, the only. I think the interesting comparison point is that we just saw David Edwards get 15 a year for four years. David Edwards is 28. Zion Johnson's hitting a second contract. And so I, I think the, the interesting kind of thought there in the commentary for trying to read between the lines is that the Browns are looking at Zion. And I think this was always going to be the conversation about Zion Johnson specifically heading into this sort of market. You have first round pedigree and you have some flashes in the back half of last year where you really saw some things from him that you had never really seen before. The talent is undeniable based on pedigree and just some of the flashes. And then he really started to kind of gained some consistency in the back half of last season. And so was there going to be a team that looked at that and said, you know what? There are so few second guys available in free agency. We're going to bet on the fact that his best football is in front of him and we're going to overpay a little bit compared to a David Edwards who is 28 years old. And it seems like that's exactly what happened with Zion Johnson.
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C
And when you're so bad, I think. I think when you're so. When it's such a bad problem for you, you know the idea of overpaying is a relative thing, right? You're really raising the floor from what you had. Even if Zion Johnson doesn't reach his peak, right? If, Even if he just is solid from where they've been, you'd take that for $16 million a year. I think that's where a lot of these teams are at when they're, when they're just trying to get to. They're just trying to even get to average, right? It's. It's not like this is. It doesn't have to be great to be a big improvement for them.
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A
The Browns are another one of those teams. We mentioned this with the Saints a little bit earlier today where I think it's important to kind of reframe their financial outlook, because with the Brown, we've had so many conversations over the last couple years about how much the DeSean Watson contract is hamstringing them and how much they're up against it because of that. I think I've said this a lot and I was thinking about this last week for some random reason, just looking at the Browns outlook, the missing draft picks are more important than the cap, like when it comes to the Deshaun Watson trade, they're going to be able to survive the cap elements of this. They have $100 million in 2027 cap space. The Browns do.
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B
Sure.
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A
So it's not all that dissimilar to what we were just saying about the Saints. Where in our minds are this cash strapped team? Do they really have the flexibility to be spending in free agency? But if you look at the multi year outlook of this, the answer for both the Browns and the Saints is
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C
yes, their biggest challenge is finding good players.
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A
Exactly.
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C
And so yeah, yeah, the, the future is totally different than the last couple of years have been for them. And I think the Saints are in that category too. As long as they don't, you know, do any more crazy things.
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B
I don't think anybody wants to hear this with the Browns in particular because it's, we've done it so many times, especially like going back to like the Miles Garrett, Baker Mayfield drafts where you're talking yourself into the two year outlook over what it is right now. But it like there's especially so I, I really like this and we'll, we'll see how well they actually play. But to like have Titus Howard and Zion Johnson there within three hours of free agency starting. And so you've already taken care of a good bit that you have to do on the off offensive line right away it's trending toward you having, having a functioning offensive line, which we sat there for a while and had a lot of concern about. How do you replenish the amount of guys you're losing on that front? Last year's draft class was phenomenal. You have two first round picks in this year's draft. It's such a big if if you do it right. But like there, there's reason for optimism here. If you can hit on some draft picks, I assume you're not going to do anything crazy at quarterback this year. That would be my guess. And so it obviously puts a lot of pressure to solve that problem in 2027. But I like this as sort of a resetting and you can start, start to see the framework for a competent team instead of what the Browns have been the last couple years.
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C
My question for the Browns is just like who's coaching them in two years? You know, what's their real plan? They're always doing. That's no disrespect to Todd Monkin. I mean he's, but he's giddy to get this job because he didn't think he probably was going to, but with the Browns, it always feels like they're scheming on, you know, a bunch of different things and you're not always sure where they're headed. So this feels a little bit this offseason like some of these other teams that have had, you know, almost placeholder type coaches. Right. We had Drod Mayo in there. If you, if you can go back in time and find these one year guys, you know, in between. And so we'll see, we'll see where they're at even in two years from now. I just, they always feel fluid to me.
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A
Can I lay out, like the optimistic case for what this could feel like? And a situation that I feel like is kind of where you can make a solid comparison if you're trying to have the rosy outlook here. I think on multiple different levels. In 2023, the Denver Broncos hire Sean Payton to be their head coach. Not totally similar, but you have a older, offensive minded, play calling head coach. So they're box checked. Same kind of deal. You retain the general manager despite a disastrous, embarrassing previous season, which is what the Broncos had with Nate Hackett. But they KE George Payton on the Broncos that free agency period. And Titus Howard's a little bit older than this player, but they signed Mike McGlinchey, who was an older second contract player to right tackle. They signed Ben Powers to be their left guard. And in the moment, it was kind of like, I don't really get what the Broncos are. Right. Like they're a team that's very far away. They're eating all this dead money with the Russell Wilson contract. Like, how is this all supposed to fit together? And them building that offensive line in the way that they did was ultimately like one of the foundational pieces for how they started to pull themselves out of that over the next couple years. And so that, to me, if you're trying to spin this like, how could this go correctly for the Browns? There's a lot of similarities to what the 2023 off season looks like for the Broncos.
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C
Yeah, I mean, I think Peyton's a totally different, you know, animal probably than Monk. And in terms of just coming in with new ownership there and showing them how to run a pro organization. So that, to me, that's a little bit of a difference. But I do see the
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A
there in a way that Monkin is not going to be like, Andrew Barry still has more say in that building than I think George Payton probably did and how that roster was being built after they traded for Sean Payton. Yeah, it's a little bit of a
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C
different dynamic with the, with the head coaches, his personality and gravitas, so to speak. But yes, putting the team together in the situation and coming out of a dire situation at quarterback and certainly, I mean, the, the Hackett situation was, you know, was worse from a coaching standpoint than the Stefanski one.
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A
So, yeah, Nate Hackett didn't get a new head coaching job two days after he was fired from his previous one like Kevin Stefanski did. Is that what you're trying to say?
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C
Yeah, I think that little. Slight difference there. Slight difference there. Russell Wilson had a better future than Deshaun Watson probably does, though.
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A
That's, that's also a good thing to bring up. Let's, let's sit in chat a little bit. Mike, if what sort of stuff when you were talking to people at the combine was coming up consistently that was interesting to you? You've like started your off season. I know this is some of the stuff is our projects that you work on a little bit later, but I'm always so interested in like what that week looks and sounds like to you and what you can say and can't.
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C
Absolutely. Yeah. So a lot of times I'll go there with two or three projects I'm working on and I, and I may end up doing a piece on it in a year. You know, an example of that was maybe last year we did the beyond the McVeigh effect, kind of looking at the way the coaching ages have evolved and all the tentacles to it. So I'll get a ton of learning out of that, but just for a little bit shorter term. One of the things that was that I was talking to some folks about was it just seemed like the Rams were really just couldn't stop because they couldn't, they couldn't put the season to bed. I mean, I think they knew they were going to win the super bowl, you know, if they could have played the Patriots. And so there were some predictions that, you know, the Rams could come out, could be a little desperate this off season. Right. Like they, they just kept talking about the two point play. It just lingered for them. It was killing them to watch Seattle win that Super Bowl. So would they be, you know, overreact or react off of that? But I would extend that to say I think these teams, if you look at the teams that felt like they should have won at all, you know, whether that's Baltimore, Buffalo or the Rams, these are teams that got, have gotten close. I mean, they've all been in the middle of like high top of the market or unusual moves in trading two number ones that the Baltimore. I think that's the most fascinating part of this offseason off season so far is just everyone knew that this was a great year to win the super bowl with, with Patrick Mahomes sidelined and the Chiefs not being the same. And when you don't make it like there's implications, McDermott gets fired and they're going to make, you know, make some bigger moves in the off season. So I think that's the interesting part of it.
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A
To me, I love that because I think that when I see stuff like this and Baltimore making the trade they did for Max Crosby feels like one of the more important signals when it comes to this. And we discussed it yesterday where it feels like the sort of move that the Ravens just don't really make. And so you kind of take a step back and it's like, okay, so why would they be willing to do something like this? Is this a scenario where people aren't really valuing draft capital in the same way or the other trends that maybe we're not picking up on, but sometimes it's just that you have a level of urgency that you didn't have previously because of what the league looks like and what your season looked like. And maybe that's just it. Maybe teams thought, you know what, we, we're not content to just sit back here and watch this happen anymore because if it didn't happen last year, it wasn't going to happen. We've got to turbocharge this a little bit. And you saw multiple teams have tried to do that. Yeah, I agree.
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C
I kind of like it. I mean, we can, it may or may not work, but I think that, you know, there is, we've seen, I wrote about this coming out of the Super Bowl. I think the last couple Super Bowls have been won by GM driven teams. Howie Roseman and John Snyder making uncomfortable moves and big moves, not just riding it out, not right, not just, hey, let's bring back the same team. And one of the interesting things about Max Crosby is that last off season I believe it's been reported, I've certainly heard it, that the Seahawks were trying to get Max Crby a year ago, Mike McDonald's and obviously they got DeMarcus Lawrence and they, you know, they've got a really good D line themselves. And this year they're not going to go for a Max Crosby after winning the Super Bowl. But who is Jesse minter? Who's Mike McDonald 2.0? Hopefully for the Ravens.
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A
If you look back at the last 10 years of NFL football, I think you could make a very serious argument. And there are numbers that back this up. And if they're not in there, if they're not the top three, they're in the top five. You look at teams that were driven by hometown talent over the last decade and teams that do not typically spend in free agency. I think the three teams at the top of that would probably be in some order, the Ravens, the Steelers and the Packers. Right?
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F
Yeah.
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A
Those are the three teams that operate that way.
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B
And they're all out here doing the
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C
Cowboys like that too.
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A
Probably in the top five as well. I would throw the Cowboys in there. And so now we're at a place where three of those teams are the three teams that made the most aggressive moves, player moves in the entire last two off seasons combined. And let's throw Dallas in there. They tried to do it this year. The Cowboys were the team that was trying to do it. And so if these teams are going to be out here doing wild shit, what does that say about the league in general?
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C
Yeah, no, I agree. I, I think that, you know, I think those teams, the, the draft and develop thing isn't enough. You know, it's good, but it's not enough. It's part of it. It used to be everything in building your team and it's still a big part of your team, but you've got to use all of the other ways because that's what the top teams are doing. Right. That's to get over the top and win it. I mean those are all high floor teams that usually don't have a losing season or much below it unless their quarterback gets hurt.
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E
So.
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C
But, but have they gotten over the top? Right. So I love it when teams are at least trying.
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A
Mike, sincerely appreciate you joining us. Always appreciate the time. We'll talk to you very soon.
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C
Thank you. Appreciate it.
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A
This is good timing. We have our next big signing. As our next guest comes on here, somebody I think you know now, it is Carmen Vitale. Car. How you doing?
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F
I'm so great. How are you guys?
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A
Awesome.
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F
You're about to talk about John Franklin Myers.
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A
We certainly are.
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B
See, I'm Carm. I'm having a blast just letting Maze tell me what's going on. So. I didn't know who it was.
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F
Yeah, you're right. I, I broke that. I'm sorry.
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D
Where did he go?
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C
Where did he go?
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A
Tennessee.
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B
Okay.
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A
Three years, $63 million for John Franklin Myers.
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B
Oh yeah. I think I Called him a finishing piece last week and that was not respectful enough to what he was worth, clearly.
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A
So what I, what I like about this, Carmen, is that sometimes we have this in free agency where you look at certain positions on the board before we even get started. And especially with Connor McGovern signing with the Bills, we were in a spot where it was Tyler Linderbaum and then you get down to like maybe Cade Mays, it's on the interior defensive line. Same sort of conversation we had John Franken Myers and nobody. And so when that's the scenario and you're just looking at the chessboard at certain positions, those are often the guys that they can get. The just the market just blows everybody away. The teams with the money are the ones that end up with those guys. It's exactly what happens with Tyler Linderbaum and it's exactly what happens with John Franklin Myers where the Titans come in and can just offer what no one else else was willing to offer.
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F
Yeah, it's a, it's a really good comp just because of the fact that yeah, they have money to spend. And we've seen that happen now in free agency with like the teams that had the most cap space and have also the most to go when it comes to revamping their team and having to build out. But I really like assigning like John Franklin Myers or obviously like Tali Lindenbaum though, because these are foundational pieces and these are guys that you can build around. So if you're going to invest this money now and still have money to spend, you're going to be able to do it around a guy that, I mean Denver absolutely loved him. I mean I have to imagine this one hurts Denver quite a bit and knowing that this was coming but still like I just, there was no way to keep all those guys together and they prioritize what they prioritize along the defensive line. But John friggin Myers is an instant. Yeah, he's a, he's a team builder, I guess is the way I want to put that.
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B
So it's funny because whatever it was an hour and a half ago, the Titans sign Wanda Robinson, which, you know, he's. He's got familiarity with Dable. I get it. I don't love that so much relative to your other options and the price that it costs you. But considering again what you just said, scarcity and what your options are if you don't bring this in, considering the resources the Titans have to work with and also throwing Wanda Robinson into a pass catcher group that needs a lot of work with. Without him. Doesn't do a lot for me, John. Franklin Myers on this Tennessee front. I'm, all of a sudden I'm pretending Jeffrey Simmons is the man they traded for Jermaine Johnson. I don't think this would stop them from adding a pass rusher with a really big draft pick. Like cooking with some gas here. I'm into this.
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A
What I really appreciate is Robert Salah doing everything in his power to rebuild the 2023 New York jets defense.
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B
There we go.
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A
That's what he's trying to do. He's just like, you know what? This is the best thing that's ever happened to me. I'm just going to see if I can re tap into some of that magic, even though it's three years later.
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F
Meanwhile, the jets are also still trying to rebuild with what they've done so far today.
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B
I do love that Salah's like, all right, let me go retool in Green Bay, in San Francisco for a minute, jfm, you know, across time. I'll reach back out to you. And here we are.
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A
I was looking at it there. The points per game numbers for the 2023 New York jets were not that great on defense. They were third in defensive dvoa. And so that we was the glory time of the jets being really good defensively and not being able to move the ball.
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G
Do you remember.
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B
What year did you say? I'm sorry?
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A
2023.
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B
2022 was the year where, like, they lost like eight games where they held their opponent to like 19 points or something like that.
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A
You know why? Because that was the year where they averaged 17 and a half points and gave up 18 and a half.
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B
Like, if they'd scored 20 points a game that year, they would have won like 10 or 11 games.
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A
Yes.
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B
Ridiculous.
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A
So, yeah, I mean, I. There are worse plans than trying to rebuild the 2023 New York jets defense. I just wonder how good that looks with everybody being three years older.
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B
I mean, that's fair. And Jeffrey Simmons isn't exactly young by NFL standards, but, man, we saw fun. I mean, not to. Not to compare everything to the conference championship teams, but you see what having badass D tackles can do for you. All right, lay it on me, Maze. Yeah, Maze is freaking out over here.
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G
Yeah. What happened?
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A
I love when there's a guy we're all excited about where every single. Like, I'm sorry for the people listening if I broke your eardrums. I was very excited when there's a guy where it's like, I, I really like this guy and I think that he's gonna. The good value. I'd want him. Charlie Kohler going to the Los Angeles chargers. Oh, three years, $24 million for Charlie Kohler.
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B
I. Okay, I told you.
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G
I told you.
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B
Charlie Kohler could get a surprisingly big bag. I love that for him. Doesn't that feel that? Last year they tried Will Disley and it didn't work out as well as they wanted to.
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A
Okay. Charlie Kohler has a little bit more giddy up.
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B
That's what I'm saying. They're like, all right, let's.
- [27:01]
A
That's kind of where I'm at.
- [27:02]
B
Let's not mess about. Let's do this for real this time.
- [27:05]
A
I love this. I. Because this feels to me like again, Charlie Kohler doesn't have the same quite this level of like past catching pop ideally, but it reminds me a little bit of like a slight downgrade from like the Colby Parkinson contract that he got a couple years ago from the Rams. Like you're a third tight end on the, on your previous team, but we're betting on what you can be in a slightly elevated role. And so I, I like this a lot. I think this actually makes a lot of sense for where the Chargers are and what the Chargers need. You pair him with Gadsden and like just their skill sets combined, like, I'm, I'm excited about this. I wanted Charlie Kohler to land in a good spot. I would say this counts.
- [27:42]
F
Is this like osmosis in, in Los Angeles of like the tight end? Just usage in general and this, this, this emphasis on two and three tight end packages now. Just kind of moving over a few miles of Los Angeles county from the Rams and trying to do that now
- [27:59]
B
with into work really well. This could be great.
- [28:02]
A
The only difference is we have a fullback in the other team. Unless we did not have the Rams. Right. So Al Gingold.
- [28:10]
B
Yeah.
- [28:10]
A
So now we have a 21 and 12 personnel world with Alex, Charlie Kohler, Ronda Gadsden, plus Mike McDaniel. I'm already in on the energy, a
- [28:21]
B
capable center, and Tyler beat us. Yeah, no, I'm. Yeah, I'm pretty in on this. I feel like they're after your hard Karm. That's your style of football.
- [28:29]
F
It is. I mean, it's also what I grew up with when you talk about Big Ten football. And it's like just a smash mouth run game and big tight ends and fullbacks and 22 personnel all the time f receivers that we don't need to actually pass the ball or have a spread offense. Yeah, no, I love it. And I just.
- [28:46]
A
I.
- [28:46]
F
Now I have, like, talk about. I think you were talking about Charlie Day earlier. I'm gonna do it again. I just have Mike McDaniel. I know. I just. The Mike McDaniel. You know him like in front of the thing with the.
- [28:59]
B
The map and like the Beautiful Mind conspiracy theories.
- [29:02]
F
It's Mike McDaniel. McDaniel. And it's just him with all of these guys now and all of these pieces in LA.
- [29:09]
A
This is his Pepe Silvia moment. Mike McDaniel is trying to tie the whole run game together.
- [29:13]
D
Carm, before we.
- [29:15]
B
Before we lose you, and if there's nothing else coming down, we got a couple things. Oh, do we?
- [29:19]
A
A couple things.
- [29:19]
B
All right, well, let's keep it current that I was going to ask Carm. No, actually, Carm, walk me through the emotions of. Of Mike Evans, no longer Tampa Bay buccaneer.
- [29:29]
A
Explain a little bit of your background as to why this would matter to you.
- [29:32]
F
Right, So I spent six years with the Buccaneers and all of that time with Mike, and Mike was my dude and still is my dude. But was. I was, like, shocked because as much as I had seen the reports of, like, oh, he might leave. Oh, he might leave. Like, no one actually thought he was leaving. That includes people in the building, by the way. Like, the Bucks were ready to do whatever Mike wanted. Like, they were. It was not a matter of money.
- [29:56]
A
And it never.
- [29:56]
F
I mean, it never is a matter of money when it comes to Mike Evans. It's solely about what he feels is right, and it's solely about what he feels is the right situation for him and his family. What shocked me the most was that this wasn't like the Texans where he has, you know, he's from Galveston, he has a house there. Like, it's. It's a completely foreign environment to him. California has crazy taxes, but again, it's not about the money. I think this really was about just a change of pace, a change of scenery and being on a team that he maybe felt was in a little better position. Though they will be potentially in the toughest division in football when you're talking about the NFC West. I'm shocked talking to people in the building. I mean, I am. I'm devastated as a fan now, but everybody. There are people in the building are also devastated. Like Bucks fans. If you can take solace and anything, just know that, like, everybody in the building is also sad with you because they tried and it was just. It had nothing to do with what the Bucks were offering. Weren't offering anything like that from everybody I talked to. It was just Mike wanted to leave.
- [31:03]
A
It's a new opportunity in a very good situation offensively. And again, he fits exactly what they need out there. Two quick signings that just happened. One guy leaving the New York Giants. One guy going to the New York Giants. Cordell Flat, cornerback Cordell Flat signing a three year, $45 million deal with the Tennessee Titans for $32 million guaranteed.
- [31:27]
B
Titans keep doing this. I don't, I don't know.
- [31:31]
F
I.
- [31:31]
B
Look, I'm, I'm firmly in the Titans corner mainly because of Cam Ward, but this is, I don't know. They, they've done a couple of deals where guys would go on my list of this is a little bit scary. I'm a little bit nervous about the price. Cordell Flat had a really nice season last year. He's still a young player, an emergent season. I would say it's a gamble worth taking. And at the end of the day it's. That's not like an astronomical price tag. But I do think you need more for him at that point, more from him at that price.
- [32:02]
A
It's my, the comparison that I would make at that price is it kind of reminds me a little bit of the deal that Paulson and Debo actually signed with the Giants last year. That was for $18 million a year. But I think that's, that's the comp I would make in terms of like the archetype of player that you're talking about here. So the Titans signed Cordell flat to a $15 million a year deal, joining the New York Giants as Cordo flop moves on Corn D and rapaport. Tremaine Edmonds, 3 years, $36 million with $24 million guaranteed going to the New York Giants after being released by the Bears.
- [32:36]
B
You knew John Harbaugh was going to go get a linebacker. I mean, that, that's not a surprise.
- [32:42]
F
A rangy linebacker. A long, like rangy linebacker. Yeah.
- [32:47]
B
Okay, I'm on. I mean, Carmen, you, you cover the Bears a lot now. Robert, obviously your credentials need not be questioned. Like, how do you feel about Tremaine Edmonds in this act of his career? And like what, like where he is going to the Giants at this point?
- [33:03]
A
Jermaine Evans is a fine player. I think it was just a matter of how much money are you saving? It was he. The Bears, I think saved 16 to 18 million dollars a year. Moving on from him. I mean, he was just getting paid a ton of money based on that last contract that he signed. And so it was more about. It's the same thing. The Tremaine Edmonds thing and the DJ Moore thing to me are somewhat similar. They're not totally analogous because you still needed another linebacker after moving out for Tremaine Edmonds, where at the pass catcher spots, you're probably set without DJ Moore. But the Tremaine Edmonds contract with the Bears is not that he's a bad player, it's about opportunity cost. So you can't pay him $20 million against the cap when you have all of these other needs. And so that's why I thought it was necessary to move on. What I am interested in with the fit here is that one of the first things that the Titans did at linebacker and Denard Wilson's first year there is they traded for Ernest Jones. Right. And so getting like a bigger range year longer linebacker in the middle of that defense is truly one of the first things they did with Dinard Wilson in Tennessee. And so this being the first thing the Giants defense is doing with their Nard Wilson as their defensive coordinator is not surprising to me.
- [34:14]
F
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And I mean, when you have a guy like Jermaine who's also really smart too, right? Like he's, he's kind of captaining the middle of that defense. And I'm with you though, when it comes to letting him go from the Bears, you had not necessarily redundancy because like Robert said, you're going to have to bring in linebackers. And they already did that now with Devin Bush, but it was how much is what he's giving us worth what we're paying him, the opportunity cost of all of this. And I think when you saw at various times throughout this year when TJ Edwards was out, Jermaine Edmonds missed some time. There was like they had depth at that position and they also had a defense that under Dennis Allen is just so what he wants to be man heavy. And it.
- [34:57]
D
You could.
- [34:57]
F
There's just so many moving parts and so many different moving pieces that I think you could afford to like. You didn't have to pay someone that much money and you didn't have to build around someone like Tremaine Edmonds in this tennis Allen defeat.
- [35:11]
B
What are you laughing at?
- [35:13]
A
The dam has broken with the defensive back contracts.
- [35:15]
B
Okay?
- [35:16]
A
The Tennessee Titans are not done. J's three years, $60 million for Alante Taylor.
- [35:22]
F
Taylor.
- [35:23]
A
So Cordell Flot And Alante Taylor on the back half of the Titans defense.
- [35:30]
F
Get every level. Just get every level.
- [35:33]
A
Titans wielding that rookie quarterback contract for all that it's worth.
- [35:37]
B
I mean, we joked about it last week, like, for all of, for all of the money they've spent and for all the deal deals that haven't really worked out that well, they're still in a position to spend and yeah, make the, make the most of your quarterback not costing that much money and make the most of a lot of those deals not biting you as bad. Have, like, they're surprisingly not hampered for the amount of bad decisions that they've made over the last couple of years. So you might as well. I, I really love the JFM signing. Alante Taylor's a good play. I mean, Cordell Flat's a good player too, but. Yeah, it's just, it's funny to see that's. I mean, what. So Wandell got 70. I don't think we mentioned Daniel Bellinger. He got 24 million.
- [36:18]
A
I mentioned Daniel Bellinger.
- [36:19]
B
63 million for Jonathan Franklin Myers, 45 for Cordell Flot, and then how much 60 for Alante Taylor.
- [36:26]
A
$20 million a year for Alante Taylor.
- [36:27]
B
So they've spent north of $200 million. I mean, not all of that is guaranteed, obviously, but they have spent a lot of money. Today.
- [36:35]
A
I'll be curious what happens with Alante Taylor in terms of where he's playing. So obviously last year he was primarily a slot corner. In 2024, he played about two thirds of his snaps on the outside. You're paying dollars a year. That says to me, he's gonna be
- [36:45]
B
playing on the outside for you.
- [36:47]
A
And so, I mean, they, they had needs. I mean, outside corner has been a tough situation for the Titans over the last couple years. They make the legerious scene trade. Obviously, that does not work out. So now you have two new outside corners. You have multiple new defensive linemen, you have Wandell Robinson. Titans are not holding back here in terms of how they're throwing some of this money around. And we have a couple more where
- [37:07]
F
they want their identity to be.
- [37:09]
A
Last defensive back deal to hit before we get to Trevor Sikima here. The Bengals are finally on the board. We're wondering when this might happen. Three years, $40 million per Ian Rapaport. Brian Cook heading to Cincinnati.
- [37:25]
D
You said three years.
- [37:26]
A
43 years, $40 million.
- [37:28]
B
That's the same deal that Kobe got, right?
- [37:30]
A
Yes.
- [37:31]
B
Yeah.
- [37:31]
A
Yeah. So that just seems to be, you know, that's the going rate for starting safeties. This go around what I like about this, and this is not surprising to me at all. When you watch the back seven of the Bengals defense tackle last year, bringing in Brian Cook, it makes a ton of sense. Like, I think that's exactly where they want to be considering how bad they were on the back end last season as they try to tackle anybody. Okay, Carm, thank you very much for the time. Great to see you. I'm sure I'll see you again very soon. We'll talk to you later.
- [38:02]
F
Bye, guys.
- [38:04]
A
All right, before we keep rolling here, let's take our first quick break.
- [38:09]
H
Every now and then you get a piece of clothing that makes you rethink your entire closet. For me, it came in the form of the softest sweater I've ever worn, made out of alpaca fiber by Paca in Peru. As a California native who's done a ton of traveling to colder parts of the country this year, this hoodie has done a lot for me. I am so not used to the colder conditions, the colder weather, and so to be able to just throw this on and not really have to worry that I'm gonna get too freezing cold when I'm out walking the street, the streets and stuff like that has been an absolute revelation. Pakka makes outdoor and lifestyle apparel from Alpaca Fiber, one of the world's most sustainable natural fibers. Their best selling hoodie is softer than cashmere, warmer than wool, and breathable. This hoodie is built for real life, thermoregulating, odor resistant, durable, and made to last. Each one is made start to finish in Peru and features an Inca ID that's hand woven by artisans, honoring generations of knowledge and traditions and connecting you closer to where your clothing comes from. Over 250,000 people have already picked up the Packa hoodie. So if you've been thinking about leveling up your hoodie game, this is your sign to do it now. To grab your Pack a hoodie, go to www.packaapparel.com. that's www.pakaapparel.com.
- [39:24]
A
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- [40:27]
E
You can eat smart, still fit in your bikini. I order Blue Apron.
- [40:31]
A
I've been happy ever since they sent pre portioned meals. I don't make no measurements. Saute the pancetta then I add the mushrooms. Large skillet cause you can't have too much room.
- [40:44]
E
Garlic pesto, tomato paste, Calabrian chili season the taste order Blue Apron today.
- [40:59]
A
Joining us now from PFF and the NFL Stock Exchange, I guess podcast but more YouTube show, right? I mean you guys are crushing it on the YouTube at this point, right? Like just a multimedia extravaganza is the NFL Stock Exchange podcast with Trevor Sikoma and Connor Rogers. Good to see you, man. How you doing?
- [41:18]
H
I'm doing great, guys. First of all, I love this whole setup. This is awesome. Just like popping in and like listening to you guys show when I can throughout the day. I mean like, I love this stuff. This is super cool. Really cool to be a part of it. Appreciate you letting me be a part of it. But I love what you guys are doing today. This has been awesome to watch.
- [41:33]
A
Appreciate you, bud. I want to talk to you about just your emotional journey as you've gone through today. Mike Evans leaving, Alex Anzalone, Kenny Gainwell. Talking me through how you're feeling about. I didn't realize we had two Buck Central guests in a row.
- [41:47]
B
I was gonna say we got Tampa like cornered.
- [41:49]
C
Talk.
- [41:49]
A
Talk me through your journey here with the Bucks over the last three or four hours.
- [41:54]
H
I was, I was in the little waiting room and you guys had asked Carmen about that qu. You asked her about Mike Evans. I was like, all right, that's it for me. And I just, you know, just, just getting up from the seat. No, I'm kidding. The Mike Evans situation is very interesting because I do agree a lot with what Carmen said where a lot of people probably thought that he was just never going to leave and I always felt like the Bucks offer was going to be competitive. I felt as though he was going to be able to get. Get more money elsewhere outside of Tampa. But it always felt like it was going to be competitive. And then to be honest, like, as the day went on and as, like, the days were leading up, I actually felt more confident that he was going to remain with the Buccaneers because it felt like they were getting, like Peter Schrager said himself, he used the word desperate to bring Mike Evans back. And I was like, okay, well, then they're going to be pretty close, compensation wise. And then he ends up going to the San Francisco 49ers. And to me, as I was sort of thinking about this over the last couple of days as well, and even when you read and sort of Mike's and his agent kind of like putting out that farewell via, like, Chapter and some of the other insiders, I think that especially for the amount of money that he signed for, unfortunately for Bucks fans, that speaks very loudly about Todd Bowles and Baker Mayfield, because to me, this speaks of an opportunity where, yeah, sure, you could say to yourself, like, oh, you know, he says that he wants a new challenge after 12 years in Tampa Bay. It's true. But, like, Mike has always been an extremely loyal person, loyal to the organization, loyal to the city, loyal to the fans, all that kinds of stuff. And I'm not saying that what he did today means that he's not loyal. It's not what I'm saying at all whatsoever. What I'm saying is that I don't think he believes in where the Bucks are going, and if he did, he would have resigned with Tampa because the money that he re signed for was very affordable. So I think it's more of a Todd Bowles thing than a Baker Mayfield thing. But Baker was one of the most inaccurate quarterbacks in the NFL in the second half of the season. We have a stat at PFF, uncatchable, inaccurate pass percentage. And over the last 10 weeks of the season, Baker Mayfield was number one in the NFL in uncatchable, inaccurate passes that he threw. I think that Mayfield, as well as the lack of faith that Todd Bowles is the right man for the job, led to Evans signing elsewhere and in San Francisco.
- [44:07]
A
It's interesting to me, this is something that kind of crept up as I talked to people at the combine, and I think it's worth paying attention to beyond the quarterback. When you think about just the shifting quality of the offensive infrastructure with the Bucks over the last few years, where you know, and this is, I'm getting here. You move on from Liam Cohen, who obviously has been one of the best play callers, offensive architects in the league over the last two seasons. You go to the Jonathan Grizzard to step down. But in talking to people in Indy, I was surprised. If I pull like 10 people that I talked to about offensive coaches in the NFL, I had more people pump up Jonathan Grizzard to me than Zach Robinson. Like, I think that right now, like, the Q score among some people in the NFL is higher for Grizzard than it actually is for Zach Robinson, who is supposed to be replacing Grizzard in Tampa.
- [44:55]
B
Josh Grizzard, but Josh Grizzard, excuse me.
- [44:57]
A
So it's, that's, that's interesting to me, right? And so I think even beyond the quarterback, I think my point here is that Mike Evans's lack of faith in the overall, like, stability of what the offensive infrastructure has been in Tampa over the last couple years. There's no more stable place you can go than to go play for Kyle Shanahan. Like, there's no more ambiguity about it. It's just like I'm going to a place where I know what the offense is going to be every year because that guy is here 100%.
- [45:23]
H
And, and I, I do think that Evans's, you know, biggest career goal at this point is he wants to win another Super Bowl. Like, I don't think he's lying in that regard. However, I think that there is a major underlying factor that Evans, who was hurt this past season, it was the first year that he didn't get a thousand yards in, in, in a season. I think he wants to go to a place, be fully healthy, get the thousand yards again. And then certainly for his hall of Fame case and for his legacy, I think it's already wrapped. That case and that legacy, if he goes to San Francisco now or wherever he was going to go, he needs to be able to, after what happened this past season, say, look, every year I was healthy in the league over a decade of play, every year that I was fully healthy, I got over a thousand yards. And being able to say that in a Hall of Fame and legacy case, I think means a lot, not just to him personally, but also just to his case overall for wanting to get to CAN. So when you look at the San Francisco 49er setup, they're going to move on from Brandon Iuk. Juwan Jennings is a free agent. Obviously they don't have Deebo Samuel anymore because they dealt him previously. But Mike's number one. George Kittle is going to miss most of the year. Like, Mike is very clearly, without question, number one in that offense, and he's going to be working for, like you mentioned, an offensive mind where it doesn't get more stable. When you're a number one option in a Kyle Shanahan offense, you eat plain and simple, like, that's it. So I also think that this landing spot specifically meant a lot to Evans because he's truly trying to cement his legacy, to make sure that there is no shadow of a doubt that he's going to be a Hall of Famer whenever he's done.
- [47:01]
A
Again, I think that his case is probably solidified as well, but it's not dissimilar to Devonte Adams looking at last year and being like, I'm going to la. I'm. I'm giving me, like a supercharged setup. Let me have another monster year and just leave no doubt here. Was I called. Was I calling Josh Grizzard, Jonathan Grizzard, by the way, you were. That's. My brain is melting.
- [47:19]
B
Yeah. Who is still a Viking as of right now, Trevor, I.
- [47:23]
A
We. I would be remiss if I didn't have, like, a version of this conversation with you before you got out of here. As you've looked at all the signings that have happened today, I'm sure in your mind you're always tying it back to, what does this mean for the draft? What does this mean for the draft? What does this mean for the draft? So when you think about the dominoes that have fallen over the last. I'm looking at the counter right now, 3 hours and 40 minutes, and how they affect what the first round of the draft might look like. What are the biggest things to have fallen in your mind?
- [47:48]
H
Yeah, I think the running back room, I think, is something that. That's certainly worth monitoring because when we were leaving Indianapolis, you couldn't hear enough people, like, sing Jeremiah Loves praises. And there were people who were like, oh, his, his. His range starts at number three overall, like with the Arizona Cardinals. And with the Cardinals, you know, resigning James Connor and being in the running back market again today, like, I don't think that that's happening with them getting Tyler Ogier. Like, they still have Trey Benson, but now it feels like he's kind of on the out. But it doesn't feel like they're a Jeremiah Love destination. I kind of feel that way about the Saints as well. You feel that way about the Kansas City Chiefs and, like, those were the Three most likely spots where I felt like there were landing spots for Jeremiah Love in the top 10. So all of a sudden like yeah he could potentially go to the Washington Commanders, but does he, you know, because if he doesn't go number seven now all of a sudden you go well okay, Jeremiah Love might be available to be had outside of the top 10 for the first time in like two months. Like that was not something that people were thinking about that was possible with him. Especially again if we turn back the clock a week ago to all of the places that he could have gone in the top 10 that you would have felt good about. So I think that the certainly the, the Jeremiah Love domino they're very interested to see sort of what all of these defensive moves for the New York jets also means on who might they might be honing in on. To me it speaks to more of an Orville Reese type of a number two overall pick than anything else. Just because they are getting bigger there, there is some, some familiarity there like signing Demario Davis. I don't think that they draft Sonny Styles. You know, not that tomorrow Davis going to be there forever. I don't hate the idea of Davis and Sonny Styles but to me it just says hey we're filling out a lot of different like specific traditional roles on our defense. Let's draft the guy who's a true off ball on on ball linebacker hybrid in Arvl Reese. So to me what the jets have done goes into Arvl Reese starting to be more of the status quo number two overall pick than like, like Ruben Bane obviously was in that conversation but more so recently Sunny Styles or David Bailey. I think that we're honing in on Arvl Reese being that pick at number two.
- [49:56]
B
I would agree with that. I, I like your logic Trev and I can go along with it. I just feel like I don't trust NFL coaches to just not become enamored with arguably the best player in the NFL draft. And so I know our guy Dane Dane had Jeremiah Love at four to the Titans in his most recent mock and so if you look at it and say well we just spent a small GDP on our defense, maybe we could help our offense out a little bit. And then I said it jokingly to Robert earlier on the show but John Harbaugh is going to love Jeremiah Love like he's going to love him.
- [50:31]
A
So here's my I've there's like so many competing and again just like reading tea leaves and like guys history with certain positions which isn't always the biggest indicator, but it's worth paying attention to. So two different things I have in mind. One, John Harbaugh just walked away from a situation where he watched what Derrick Henry could do for an offense. Right. We get a true, like ridiculous force of nature type player in here. What can that look like? Joe Shane, let's say Juan Barkley walk out of the building.
- [50:59]
E
Okay.
- [51:00]
A
How does that impact his thinking on what adding a guy like that back into the offense might look, what might look like. And so again, whether that has any bearing on their decision, I don't know. But the fact that, that your two main decision makers presumably. Right. I don't. Who knows how much Joe Shane is actually pulling the, pulling the levers over there anymore, but presumably your two main decision makers have an interesting history recently with big time running backs, to say the least.
- [51:27]
B
No, that, I mean, the Giants obviously are a conversation unto themselves and I think that would just open 10 different cans of worms. But like, if you remove all of those trappings from it, it. If I tell you Jeremiah Love is no worse than the second best player in this draft. And I think, I think evaluators think that way more so more than fans want to give them credit for because typically those of us on the outside, you know, you're talking about contract value and all of these very important things, but I think a lot of times it just boils down to who's the best football player.
- [51:59]
H
I also, I also think that how the Raiders have gone about things really over the last week, like we'll factor in the Max Crosby trade as well. Right. Like, I think that that has totally changed the outlook of this draft and how aggressive that that team might be. Like, I love the Tyler Linderbaum edition. You're about to get a young franchise quarterback in there. Why not get in a super experienced center, one of the best in the NFL, for him to be able to talk to and have a good relationship with. And obviously before the ball was even snapped, you're communicating with this guy. You're. You're leaning on his expertise. I love that there. Obviously getting Jalen Naylor helps for them too. And then when you look at the Max Crosby trade, I understand that like everybody kind of talked about what, what Max does for the Ravens. Right. Like that's, that's sort of the immediate. But to me, I think that that trade meant more towards the Raiders because you just never, almost never have your general manager, your head coach and your quarterback, your franchise quarterback, basically, like on the same timeline, having all of this room to work with each other and actually have long term plans because a lot of times it's like, all right, one of them is on the hot seat. So you don't really get that continuity between the three time the Raiders have that now. And trading away Max Crosby to me was actually most advantageous for them because now especially getting two first round picks, it allows them to really lean into what is a major rebuild and what's going to be the identity of not just Clint Kubiak's offense, but then also who Fernando Mendoza is as a quarterback. So I love that they were super aggressive to go get Tyler Linderbaum. I really like that move there. Obviously upgrading and receiver helps as well, but I just, I think the Max Crosby move was the correct one for them as well.
- [53:38]
A
It was funny because we didn't, we did the show yesterday and we didn't really talk about the Raiders side of it in real time and this is oversight. But part of the reason for that is that I thought it was so self evident that it was the correct decision for the Raiders to make that there really wasn't a ton more analysis to provide than that. Like you traded away a 29 year old pass rusher and when we were talking about how we don't normally see these types of moves for 29 year old third contract players, that sort of trade market, like getting two first round picks for it, how it was a hyper aggressive trade trade for the Ravens, the other side of that implicitly is it is the correct choice because of the value you're getting back for the Raiders. And so that to me was one of the driving forces for why we didn't spend a lot of time talking about it. Is that in my mind it was just self evidently the correct choice for the Raiders to make when it comes to Max Crosby moving on from a
- [54:28]
B
valuable asset that's on a different timeline from everyone else in your organization while he's still highly valuable. Yeah, like I don't think you need to spend a whole lot more time on it.
- [54:37]
H
Yeah, because also this, this question of like, like oh, is Max gonna want out? The Raiders aren't very good. Like that was also probably going to exist a year from now.
- [54:47]
B
Right.
- [54:47]
H
It's not like oh, they get Fernando, they're, they're going to be all good to go. They're going to win the division, they're going to be winning everything like that. So I just, I agree with you. I think this is totally the right
- [54:55]
A
move to make for him. Trav, sincerely appreciate the time, buddy, great to see you. Best of luck. As you dig into draft season. I'm going to make you come on the show again before we actually get to the draft. So just, just be on the lookout for that.
- [55:06]
H
Sounds good, guys. Appreciate you having me Keep killing it.
- [55:08]
A
Talk to you later. Joining us now, our old buddy from the Prime Vision broadcast on Amazon, one of our favorite friends of the show, it's our friend Sam Schwarzstein. Sam, how you doing man?
- [55:20]
D
What's up? You guys are grinding right now through the news.
- [55:24]
A
It's 3 hours and 47 minutes in. I, I, I feel like I could keep going for another four hours if I needed to.
- [55:30]
B
Well, fortunately for you, we have at least another hour and a half, so.
- [55:38]
A
My brain just short circuited. As I just said, I can go for another three hours. Anything that's come across, your timeline in the last couple, in the last few minutes here, that is a front of mind for you. What's, what are you thinking about right now as we're three and a half, half hours into this thing?
- [55:50]
D
I, I, I've been, I've been mixing it up on the Linder bomb news, right? And you know, there's the sides of it where I, I was looking for the tweet where I said linder bomb should win the Heisman. As a former center, my talent evaluation is can you do the things I could never do? And him reaching two eyes is a shame. Running outside zone is the best outside zone center I'd seen since like Chris Myers or some of those old Alex Gibbs style outside zone teams. He does so much there and he didn't run it a ton in Baltimore. I hear a lot of people talking about, hey, we should evaluate a quarterback and center being paired up and giving us a quarterback, a veteran center. So I see why you want to do it with Kubiak. The problem is, is that they don't need, you don't need a massive center or a huge center center, contract style player to operate an offense that runs play action 30% of the time. If that's your plan, you're not making the mic points, you're not changing protections. That's not the focus of it. So it's, it's different than if you were getting like a, if you were putting a top tier center for Joe Burrow and they said, Joe, you do so much at the line, let's just focus on you throwing that football and we'll have a center do all that for you where you're manipulating protections. That's a different story. And so, you know, it's market resetting. It's crazy. I want to hear people talk more about what did they give up by spending so much money on Linderbaum versus just looking at historical data. Because one thing that's interesting is every team, if you talk to their analytics staff, is looking for what's the future of this game? Where are there going to be runs on spending on players based off where the game is going, rule changes, what's going on? Nil transfer port portal. That could be a big deal because you cannot run the same offenses in college football with no continuity year to year. And so teams are trying to project out what will be a run. So maybe center's going to get a crazy payday because of protection and line calls. And maybe they're ahead of this thing. I don't think they are by double Payne versus Connor McGovern. But it's an interesting conversation. I don't think anyone can just go overpay. Massive underpay what the market was. You know, I think Hellman, you said it earlier, but like sometimes you, you might not trust certain things that teams will do. You have. The coaches are coaches and they're going to want certain things. And so I think it's, it's been my big discussion also. Charlie Kohler going to the Chargers is going to run a lot of lead screens out of the backfield because that's what Mike McDaniel likes to do. Those are my two takes.
- [58:09]
A
So a little bit of corner news came across the timeline while we were transitioning to Sam here. Josh Jobe back to Seattle. I didn't see the. I think it was three years, 24, but I know it's $8 million a year. So $8 million a year for Josh Job back to Seattle. This is one that's interesting to me, Sam, because. Because we talk about markets at positions and kind of how they start to unfold. You have guys getting twice that, Cordo Flats getting twice that to go to the Titans. Josh job at $8 million a year, you understand how that market develops. Because in a vacuum for any system, Josh Job is probably not as valuable as a lot of these other guys, but he's extremely valuable to. For what the Seahawks specifically need. And so the idea that you can spend half on Josh Shob, knowing what he gives your defense, even if he has limitations in a vacuum for every system, it. That's just one of those sightings where it's just like you'll feel really good that you're paying him $8 million a year compared to the corners that are costing 15.
- [59:07]
D
That's serendipitous because that's. That. That's a crazy deal. I did a bunch of research post super bowl on him because one thing I'm fascinated about is I talk about this every year on your shows. How do we use data to better tell stories and then how is there also mislabeled data and how can you take advantage of that? Josh Job plays on a defense that overall play some of the most zone in the NFL. He himself plays some of those, man. Because he's always in the boundary. Yeah, he's always one on one and he's playing that backside X a lot of the time covering him, man. And so you have. You could consider him a lockdown corner for what exactly like you said, for what this defense needs at a great discount for what a lot of these teams have. So you know, they have three stud corners and I think now you have one that's probably one of the more important ones that people don't talk about because of the ability they have to play, man. Backside side or they have all the funky zone going in the front side.
- [59:57]
B
I just love you. Took the words right out of my mouth. Like there's no projection here. That's what. That's what makes free agency so scary is like you're. You're moving across the country. It's a new scheme, it's new coaches. It's a new level of talent around you. Most of it is projection and if there's none whatsoever for a pretty discounted price for a starting caliber corner, I. That's one of my favorite things that's come across the ticker all day because I don't have to imagine what Josh Job is going to look like for the Seattle Seahawks. I can just go watch his games.
- [60:31]
A
Smaller one, but one that's worth mentioning here. Larry Boreham is heading to the Lions. We do not have numbers on that quite yet about where he'll be playing. Larry Boreham for the Dolphins last year played mostly right tackle in his career. He's kind of bounced back and forth. He played mostly left tackle. 24. So is this potentially a stopgap or competition at that left tackle spot if Taylor Decker is going to move on? We mentioned this with the Decker News. Are you ready to kind of seed that job to Giovanni Manu or do you need a little bit more competition in that room? Day one signing for Larry Boreham seems to indicate that maybe he has a chance to play for that team a Little bit more than we might have thought.
- [61:10]
B
And that to me signals we're not going to have a panic attack if our options at pick 17 in the draft don't lend itself to helping that position. Yeah, and I mean draft drafting a drafting a good tackle that at 17 like that far down the list in the first round is easier said than done. I actually, I do think this is a year where you could potentially pull that off. But that lessens the urgency on you to solve that problem in the draft, which is I always think, a really smart way to approach free agencies. We're like, hey, we won't be screwed if we don't do something more about this later.
- [61:46]
A
Sam, now that we're in kind of a lull with the sightings and the fact that we don't have any currently rolling in, I'm curious, just going back to any other bigger picture kind of studies or things that you wanted to table set before free agency started. Like what were the bigger picture thoughts that you kind of had on your mind as you were thinking about this group and how the money would get thrown around?
- [62:05]
D
Yeah, I mean I keep going back to what, what the Raiders are doing because they made the big trade to get rid of their franchise piece with Crosby and now we know they're going to take for Manoza first overall. That that's been made clear today as a tough AFC west and the Chiefs one of the better DVOA teams that didn't make the playoffs with our good friend Aaron Shots. So I think that that team is taking massive swings. I have no idea if they're, they will work out. And then you want to look at the commanders because the commanders they've missed on a few of the prospects that apparently wanted, they wanted Alec Pierce. They have a new offensive coordinator in David Blau who we don't even know what his offense is going to look like with a quarterback who, you know, he ran more pro style. Jaden Danielson is at Arizona State, but now how long ago is that? And so if they're going to a pro style offense, that's, that's going to be a brand new look over there in Washington for a team that looked like it was, you know, on the precipice of being a big player in the nfc. I haven't seen them make enough moves to make me feel comfortable with them being a big player again. They might have another down year.
- [63:16]
A
I wonder what the Washington mover receiver is with both those guys now off the table with Pierce now off the table. Is that The Romeo Dobbs team now that Mike Evans is in San Francisco. And then the other thing here is what happens with Brandon Aiyuk, right. Like they're in on Alec Pierce. Is Brandon Iuk now a fallback option for them? Like there are still some solutions at one of those boundary receiver spots, but they're starting to dwindle a little bit.
- [63:38]
B
Is Brandon Iuk a solution right now?
- [63:40]
A
Now I mean that's a good question, a worthwhile question.
- [63:44]
D
I guess we'll see no substation nearby,
- [63:48]
B
but there's other substation in D.C. suburbs.
- [63:52]
A
I am worried about Mike. Mike Tissue.
- [63:55]
B
He's had the hamstring issues in the past.
- [63:57]
A
We're just, we're veering into very tough territory here.
- [64:01]
D
Yeah, I think Mike Evans is an awesome one too because I think what that, what that offense wants to do is to give Brock Purdy a guy who can have the three way go at the top of that route. Whether it's going to be the go ball, the out route or the dig. Right. That's like a lot of what's built into a lot of their offense. And he's actually one of the better throwers of time and he's a tough. He struggles a little bit with teams that are ready for that. Like I went to the Monday Night Football game against the Panthers. He is the throws slowest throwing ball over 20 yards from a miles per hour perspective and that shows up a lot and when teams can run with anticipation but having a big body like that we. Mike Evans has made a lot of quarterbacks a lot of money and now Brock Purdy's being paid a lot of money. I think it's, I think it's going to be a great fit having that guy like he did with iuk where you could just trust one player to make one big play is going to be a huge value for this offense. That was missing Juwan Jennings, love him to death. But that was not the guy that you wanted to anchor this offense a wide receiver position last year.
- [65:01]
H
Year.
- [65:02]
A
I'm not, I'm not trying to retread the same territory. We've, we've done a million different times when it comes to running back value. I don't really care what the answer is. I, I just think that this offseason in particular is an interesting one for having a discussion about how important they are for individual offenses and the two things that I feel like are kind of working in tandem with each other this off season in particular and what happened today, Kenneth Walker going to Kansas City and The Chiefs being like we need this level of popper running back for offense to come together in the same off where we're potentially going to be talking about Jeremiah Love as a top five pick. I just think that the bulk of data and the touch points that we're seeing at that position this spring Sam, it's at least worth thinking about how they all fit together and what it overall means for the types of players and the types of skill sets you're seeking out at that position.
- [65:52]
D
I mean that's a really funny one for me because the Chiefs of the past two years are one of the more successful running games and this is without the ability to QB sneaker at the quarterback on fourth down which can influence fleet rushing success rate numbers and but they had almost no explosion. Right. So from a television perspective we love it. We have a consistent good offense that shortens the game, that makes the games closer. Now they have Kenneth Walker who we want who, who we almost did a thing on him on Prime Vision where we would measure how much backwards running he would do before going forward. We're gonna get it for next year but it makes it worse now because because he's in an offense that wants to find explosive runs. That's what he. Because they're trying to change what they're doing on offense with that's a clear indicator but they want. They teach their backs go straight. Just get me four. I don't know if you can teach Kenneth Walker that he's going to want to run up to line scrimmage, run backwards and then use his speed to get outside unreal posterior chain on that guy. If you know, you know. So I'm, I'm, I'm going to be interested to see are they going to change the offense with Nagy out to where they can manufacture more explosive runs, get into the edge versus where they've been is just try and keep Mahomes out of being super backed up because he'll make third and seven look like third and two.
- [67:07]
A
Sam, as always, buddy, it's great to chat with you. Excited to have you back on the show as we dig into some more kind of bigger picture philosophical offseason discussions. I will make you do that at some point in April, May and so we'll do that when the time comes. But sincerely appreciate the time. We'll talk to you very soon.
- [67:22]
E
Soon.
- [67:22]
D
You're a very demanding guy. You say this to everybody as they leave off. I will make guess what the rest
- [67:28]
B
of the calendar today.
- [67:29]
A
I just, I hope you're not surprised when I send you a text on like May 1, being like, hey, anytime of the next month you want to come on and do do X and Y. So that will happen. Just be ready for the tech arrive.
- [67:38]
D
I do like it because we all show up and do it for you end of day Hellman. So it's like a very funny thing.
- [67:44]
A
Appreciate you buddy.
- [67:44]
D
You say we're going to and we will.
- [67:46]
A
I'll talk to you soon. Soon. All right, before we move on, we're going to take one more quick break. It's that time of year again for taxes. We all know the stress of the old way of filing. You send your documents off and then absolute radio silence. You're stuck refreshing your inbox and sending awkward just checking in texts, wondering if they've even started. But with TurboTax Expert full service I know my TurboTax Expert takes taxes from fully off my plate and updates me every step of the way so I don't have to worry. That way I can get back to the things that matter to me like going on vacation in the spring or enjoying the NFL off season. So stop chasing updates. It's time to switch to the modern tax filing Solution with Intuit TurboTax. The best part? You can get Experts progress right on your phone while you go about your day. So go for a run or grab a coffee. You'll know your dedicated Experts Expert is handling it, looking for every last deduction to get you the best possible outcome and every dollar you deserve. File with confidence. Visit turbotax.com Only available with TurboTax Full Service Experts Real time updates only in iOS mobile app everyone deserves to be connected. T Mobile and US Cellular are joining forces. Our networks are coming together bringing more T Mobile coverage all over the country. Switch to T Mobile and save up to 25 versus Verizon by getting built in benefits they leave out. Check the math@t mobile.com Switch and now T Mobile is available in a US cellular store near you Bigger network the combination of T Mobile and US Cellular's network footprints will enhance the T Mobile network's coverage savings versus comparable Verizon plans plus the costs of options, benefits, plan features and taxes and fees vary. Savings with three plus lines include third free line free via monthly bill credits credit stop if you cancel in lines. Qualifying Credit required. Over 90 of the top 100 U.S. accounting firms trust bill to simplify and secure bill pay. That's proven financial infrastructure built on over a trillion dollars of secure payments. Visit bill.com proven for a special offer. Joining Us now. And we're going to have him roll in while we pull up the top 150 graphic and see what's left on the board. It is our friend from Yahoo and Reception, Perception, our man, Matt Harmon. Matt, how you doing, bud?
- [70:00]
E
What up, boys? Quiet day?
- [70:01]
A
Not.
- [70:02]
E
Not much.
- [70:03]
A
Nothing has happened.
- [70:04]
H
I'm.
- [70:04]
A
I'm doing fine. I'm not completely fried.
- [70:06]
B
I love the part. This is the part of the day where you might go 6 to 12 minutes without something happening and you're just like, what the hell, I'm bored.
- [70:15]
A
Give me more.
- [70:15]
B
Keep the dopamine to keep going. Let's go.
- [70:18]
A
So not much has changed over our top top 50 here as we look at it, compared to the last time we checked in, we still got Trey Hendrickson left. That's going to be a really interesting one. Devin Lloyd still in the borough. Dafa away. Rasheed Walker, Jermaine Illuminor. A lot of offensive linemen in that collection of players. We saw Josh Jobe head back to Seattle. Tariq Wolin still available. Boy Mafe, the other Seahawks defender we have not seen come off the board. Matt, I'm curious about. As you sit there and look at Romeo Dobbs being, you know, him and Juwan Jennings being left here and we've seen some of the dominoes start to fall. Receiver Mike Evans ends up in San Francisco. We see Jalen Naylor head to the Raiders. Your landing spots right now for Dobbs and Jennings, when you think about their skill sets and the teams that need guys like that. What's on your mind?
- [71:02]
E
Yeah, Dobbs. I actually was the guy that I had pegged to go to San Francisco, so that moved.
- [71:07]
D
Yeah.
- [71:07]
E
Okay. Well, there you go. That moved that off the board. Mike Evans is basically the better version of that. I love that fit there as their ex receiver. I think for Jennings, it's. It's tough with him because frankly, I just don't think he was great last season. Obviously he was playing through a lot of injuries. Everybody in San Francisco is playing through a lot of injuries, so there is that to consider. But, you know, he also is kind of miscast as. I think again, to come back to the Evans thing, he kind of had to play as their ex receiver, which was obviously not the plan. I don't think that's the ideal usage for him. So I think that's a part of why. I think he wasn't as impactful as you probably would have wanted him to be. But Baltimore, to me stood out as a landing spot for him because I think he Brings some size to the, the position. He's also not old enough to. And probably not like a high pedigree enough to land on that disgusting list of like, receivers who finished their career with the Ravens that were 33 years old and were great back in like 2015. But bring some size at the position that I think they need. He can play on the ball, allow you to do some fun stuff with Zay Flowers. So that was still one that I think makes a lot of sense for him and for Dobbs. It feels kind of cheap to say New England, but I've seen that one kind of connected and it would make sense. They do need more help on the perimeter. And a guy that can just like consistently pick up first downs. He is a guy that I think helps you move the chains.
- [72:25]
B
There was so much smoke about Alec Pierce to New England and we talked about them not meeting Indianapolis's price, which is few and far between at this point. But like, if, if you came out of this with Romeo Dobbs at a much lower price point, I would feel pretty good about that.
- [72:41]
A
Yeah, the two teams that again, where I think we're in on the Pierce thing that I think do make sense as landing spots for Dobbs because of needing that skill set at Washington and New England. Those. Those are the two teams that I think are. Are worth mentioning there. I'm curious how you feel about Naylor.
- [72:53]
E
The.
- [72:54]
A
The price tag, the fit in, the fit with the Raiders, just that pass catching group in general. I know you had been doing some work about the free agent receivers before the market opens. So where do you sit with Naylor and. And his elevation going from decidedly the number three in Minnesota to now profiling as more of a number two option with the Raiders.
- [73:11]
E
Yeah, got that Jaylen Naylor charting profile up on the site on Sunday night, so thank God we got that one signs the first day of free agency. No, I really liked what I saw to Jalen Naylor, honestly, at times I thought he had like the best chemistry with J.J. mcCarthy last year. Which, by the way, is not a good thing. Right. Like, it's, it's good for Jalen Naylor, but you don't want your third receiver to have the best chemistry with the quarterback. That's not an ideal situation for a situation that we all know was not ideal in Minnesota last year. But I thought a few things stood out with Jalen Naylor going back and charting his eight games for reception perception last night and over the weekend. Number one made a lot of plays at the catch point. Like Contested stuff, attacked the ball, ball well shielded defenders away from the ball. I thought that was pretty nice to see. Not really a strength of any of those Raiders receivers at this point. I do think they have some interesting useful guys potentially on the roster, but they don't necessarily have someone that could do that. He's also a guy that I think can play all three receiver positions credibly, probably more of a Z and slot option at his best, but still I think that allows you to unlock some movement with the other guys there because like I, I liked Bash as a prospect, but I thought he might be a little bit more developmental. Dante Thornton was like a pure developmental player to me. It still bothers that they just pushed that guy in the deep end after drafting him from the Looney Tunes Tennessee offense. That made no sense to me. A lot of stuff did not make sense to me with what happened in Las Vegas last year, but that was one of the more perplexing ones, so I wouldn't want to give up on those guys necessarily. But Naylor allows you to just kind of unlock your best three at the receiver position. In addition, like Trey Tucker is a guy who can legit spread like stretch the field. He led all wide receivers in snapshare last year in terms of like most stats gaps from on a percentage basis of his team's offense. That's probably not what you want out of Trey Tucker. So again, Naylor just allows you to come in here and and level set things a little bit. But yeah, I wouldn't say that the Raiders got themselves a future star or anything with Naylor, but a really legitimate, useful player, which is something they definitely lacked at wide receiver last year.
- [75:07]
A
So let's play this out because I'm interested in this because you, you do so much thinking about this exact subject. So we got Besh, Trey Tucker, Jaylen Naylor, Brock Bauer. If you're trying to piece together what the roles with that group looks like, or let's just say your answer at the end of this may be they still need I was going to say X, but that's a misleading letter to use. When it comes to receivers, they still need fill in the blank. In terms of skill sets, how do you think all of those pieces do fit together in an ideal scenario for the Raiders in a world where, and again, I think this is worth mentioning, Clint Kubiak we were having conversations heading into last year about how it was a weird collection of skill sets with Seattle's receivers and it didn't end up mattering and so he does have some very recent experience with maybe what seems like an odd collection of players and making a really cohesive offense out of that.
- [75:57]
E
Yeah, I mean to, to put a fine point on it, I kind of do think they need like a nominal X receiver here in this room. Like somebody just play on the ball and beat pressman coverage consistently. Because even if you didn't have proof of concept of Jackson, Smith and Jigba being a outside boundary receiver prior to this past year, you definitely. This was a drum I beat consistently with him. Is you did have proof of concept of him being able to man coverage. So you could like make a case that he would transition well into that as a three level player even if it was unproven at that point. I don't think any of these guys rise to that level. Even if you do like Naylor and like I liked Jack Besh as a prospect, Thornton would be that guy. But again, is he ready to do that? I didn't see a lot of evidence as a rookie that he was ready to do that and I didn't expect him to be that as anything again more than a developmental guy. So that's probably like the skill set that they need is. Is that type of player. But. And we talked about this a lot last year with the Seahawks offense that because they are play out of so condensed formations, it does kind of blur the line between slot and outside receiver. So I think all of those guys, Tucker, Besh and Naylor can do that at just at different levels of the field. You probably would say that like Naylor and definitely Tucker are your deeper threat guys, whereas Besh is going to operate in the short to intermediate area. And I mean for a guy like Tucker too and, and I guess Naylor as well, part of your job is just open up space for Brock Bowers to be able to do everything as a move around threat. Which I mean I remember last year when, when the Seahawks drafted Elijah Arroyo and John Schneider said like oh yeah, our, some of our coaching staff like really thinks he could play X receiver. I'm like Brock Bowers is like the actualized version of that theory. So I think they'll be able to get away with that more often here in Las Vegas.
- [77:37]
B
Understanding that the answer is everything. When you're as bad as the Raiders were, is there a direction they could go with their new Ravens pick that would get you you more excited than other places?
- [77:52]
A
It's a really good question.
- [77:53]
B
I was, I was pegging offensive line for that pick, but that was before they got Tyler Linderbaum for $81 million.
- [78:00]
A
I mean you could still make a very serious argument though.
- [78:03]
B
I mean they need it all free
- [78:05]
A
agency like the DJ Glaze thing is unfortunate. The the closest comparison I would make it remind. It reminds me a little bit of what happened with Braxton Jones in Chicago where mid round pick thrust into starting role as a as a roller rookie plays well enough where he earns the job again the next season but then you bring in an offensive infrastructure that's just hot flaming garbage. He plays terrible and then now you're in a place where do we have to replace him and the Bears ended up doing that and so kind of remind like it's a developmental plan that has been uneven to no fault of his own. I get I guess is what I would say and that's why I think but if when you're on that development plan plan you could absolutely justify just being like it. We're getting ahead of this. We're going to draft guy in the first round. We're just going to put this to bed. So if they replace their right tackle and their left guard I still wouldn't be surprised by that.
- [78:52]
B
That would make me really excited just to watch the Raiders offense. But then you flip over to what their defense looks like right now and I don't know might need some balance between the two.
- [79:02]
A
We just said they, they, they have no players making more than $10 million a year. It's an insane roster.
- [79:08]
F
It's.
- [79:09]
A
It's kind of wild when you actually think about it about it. The other big receiver contract Matt that I wanted to ask you about. I know you weren't overly excited about what his market was going to look like. Wandell Robinson making 18 and a half million dollars a year in Tennessee and how that fits with the current collection of Titans pass catchers. Where are you at on this?
- [79:27]
E
I mean it's fine, you know. I know that sounds good.
- [79:36]
A
3:10pm we're four hours into this. It's exactly where we all are.
- [79:40]
E
Right. It's fine. Especially we all come to terms with this was going to happen. We just needed to know what the number was going to be like four days ago. Yeah, I mean honestly probably when we all saw Brian D. Get hired by Tennessee we knew that this was coming. But yeah, I mean look credit to Wand Robinson.
- [79:56]
A
He.
- [79:56]
E
He played really well last year within his given role and and they kind of essentially just took his really stupid hitch heavy rout tree from 2024 and like what if we threw him a deep post every now and Again, like, you know, mostly against like the Bengals and the Cowboys. Hideous secondaries. What if we just did that? Which by the way is what he did at Kentucky with Liam Cohen in college. Like it, it made sense to finally sprinkle some of that in. I mean in 2024 he literally had a negative EPA per target, 93 catches, 699 yards. So you could again just sprinkle some downfield stuff. That would be nice for him and I think they'll do that here in Tennessee. My two concerns, One is like more of a meta, maybe macro level concern, but the first one is just like does he overlap not from a how they win perspective, but from a pre snap alignment perspective. Does he overlap too much with Jamir dk? Which if you think Jamir DK is just a gadget guy and like a good return player, that's fine. I think that's totally defensible. Take I I But if you think he's more than that, does Robinson block him a little bit there from getting on the field? Because Robinson definitely has to be a slot player who's going to, you know, move around the formation a little bit, which again I think is probably the ideal usage for Chamir dk. But you mentioned blank slate with the Raiders defense. This pass catching group to me is a blank slate. So if you just want to throw resources at it and see what stick, I, I think that's fine. But the second thing, again, that would just have me concerned if I was a Titans fan. Not that you're not going to get some use out of Robinson. You are. And this could also extend to Romeo Dobson. Frankly, I think it could extend to like Alec Pierce a little bit too. Although he's definitely a better version of his archetype than these two guys are. Are you not just better off trying to find the next version version of Wando Robinson or Romeo Dobbs or even again Alec Pierce? Although he was definitely a better prospect and better player last year than either of those two guys because to me it's just like I look at those three players and I see three guys that were just good enough to like hang around for four years just starting roles and get better and better and better incrementally throughout their career because they just again had time to develop and grow on the job where like I thought Dobbs and I guess even Wanda too, they were like terrible players in their rookie season. Like they were just not useful on a consistent basis. But then again it's 10% better every single year. Are you not better off trying to find the next guy there rather than paying 18 million whatever it is for Wandell Robinson. I think that's like a discussion to have. But when you're the Titans and you have all this money, I, I, I, you got to spend it somehow and you got to try to make a quarterback's life a little bit easier. So I guess I can get behind it in that way. But that was just something that I, I thought about consistently over the last few days before we headed into free age.
- [82:40]
A
I love this and I think it's a really interesting discussion and I think it's my knee jerk response is it's all about where you are in the team building process. Right? Because having they did get so much better. Like watching Romeo Dobbs last year. Like some of it was the way that the Bears played man coverage late in the season. But you watch Romeo Dobbs last year in one on one situations and just like what he was doing as a third down, gotta have it player for that offense, that was not who he was early in his career. And so if you're on the precipice, you think you're competitive, that's the skill set you're missing for your offense. You're willing to pay a premium for that in the moment because you don't want to wait around for three years for him to develop into that sort of player. But if you're a team that's a little bit earlier in the early, in the early stages of this thing and you have time for those players to grow into those roles, then I think your point totally stands. It's like why would we pay $18 million a year for Romeo Dobbs when we could have romeo Dobbs in two years for $4 million a year? Because we drafted him in the third round. But yeah, which teams have those years to wait around and wait for that development to happen? I think is the question right?
- [83:45]
E
Like is Alec IO man or the next Romeo Dobbs?
- [83:48]
A
Maybe, right, maybe.
- [83:49]
B
But plausible to me.
- [83:51]
A
And I think the, and this is actually a perfect example because what the packers didn't do is they didn't sign the 18 million dollar version of Romeo Dobbs to block Romeo Dobbs's development. And that's the reason he turned into this sort of player. And so that's always kind of the push and pull when it comes to these things is yeah, you can solve this problem with money in the short term, but are you cutting off development pathways to guys that will eventually get there at a cheaper price? And so that's always kind of the push and pull that you're having to weigh in these sorts of moments.
- [84:24]
B
And I think, I mean, ideally, the Titans get to a point where that's a problem for them to confront. I don't blame them if they don't think they're there just yet. Even. Even with a couple young receivers on their roster. Like, I understand those guys are there, but if you kind of feel like you need to microwave this thing in the meantime to get Cam Ward up to snuff, I understand that compulsion.
- [84:44]
A
Well, what I would say is, let's say the Titans move on from Calvin Ridley, which I. I don't think would be shocking necessarily at the price if they decided to move on because they're
- [84:51]
E
paying him a lot of money.
- [84:52]
A
That makes sense.
- [84:53]
E
The.
- [84:53]
A
The best analog for what the Titans are doing right now. You don't have to. It doesn't take much creativity. So the Patriots did last year. Right. And so let's even play that out further beyond just the amount of money that you're spending. Let's say Wandell Robinson at $18 million a year slots into just the expensive receiver bucket that you put Stefan Diggs in last year. That still leaves a can kon booty get better for us bucket for you. And let's say you put I manor into that one. It doesn't have to be one or the other. You can do both at the same time. But if you're going to sign one of those guys, it's going to come at the expense of reps and development opportunities for some young player on your roster. And outside of Calvin Ridley, that's all they had. All they had was young players at those pass catching spots.
- [85:37]
E
So, yeah, I think you saw enough from those guys last year to, like I said, leave the door open. But I wouldn't say that any of them, whether it's IO man or DK or whatever, none of them were just so authoritatively good that it's like, okay, that position is locked down for us. So because the familiarity is there with Wondale and you know, with Brian DL and everything, I. I can, I can get behind. Like, all right, that was the guy we wanted. I'm just like, would I be the one to pay if I was in charge of things? Which I'm not. I'm just in my little box here. But if I was in charge of things, like, would I have been the
- [86:06]
G
one to do that?
- [86:07]
E
Probably not, but I can understand their thinking.
- [86:10]
A
Anything else? Any parting thoughts about what's went down today? What's gone down today that you feel like is something that's still on your mind.
- [86:19]
E
I think the Colts situation probably landed in a, in a good spot for everybody involved. To me, like, I'm just always worried when a guy like Alec Pierce goes and becomes, you know, the number one receiver for somebody else, which his contract would have demanded had he left. And I, I just think they were so. They, they were really intentional on how they used Pierce last year. Like yeah, he was still outside on the line of scrimmage, boundary stuff, but they definitely condensed him a lot closer to the offensive line than in previous seasons, which again gives him so much more space to operate as that X receiver. To me it's just like had he gone to Tennessee and it's much more of a true spread out offense under Brian Dable with more of a tr Again, more traditional like old school leanings at least in my opinion. I think there's a chance that like okay, he has 84 targets or 90 targets for the Titans next year and he has 850 yards. And Titans fans are like, why did we pay this guy $30 million? Kind of in the same way that like the Steel, like Steelers fans are like we paid DK Metcalf $30 million for year. Like I don't know how, I don't know how well that contract is age. And I frankly think they're like similar actually as a prospect. I compared Alec Pierce to like the, the bad analysis on DK Metcalf as a prospect, like kind of stiff, can only really run three routes, probably has to play on one side of the field and like that's it. Now Pierce has again gotten better at so is DK Metcalf. But staying home sometimes is like the grass is just not always greener. So I think that actually landed in a pretty good spot for Pierce. Even though the idea of him with Drake May was pretty fun. I, I do think think like staying with the coach that knows you like a team that knows you can still be good. And you know, for Pittman, actually with, with DK Metcalf, I think he gets a new deal, he gets to start over. I think Pittman's a really smart player, great culture guy, gonna work really hard. It is just kind of funny that the Steelers team that I always like hated this narrative just they can't miss when it comes to day two receivers. They can't miss. Well now they've traded for like two other players, discarded veterans in back to back offseason. So I think we could probably put that narrative to bet at the this
- [88:20]
A
point, I think the Pierce thing is, is so well founded and it we look back, we were talking about this last week when we were just discussing the recent history for agency. And not even just the recent history, but you go back a decade, I mean the landmines at receiver is crazy. And I think it's the. If there's a lasting lesson from that. And the Pierce thing is a really good example of this. Receivers are more situational dependent than I think we like to admit sometimes. And so a guy like, like Pierce, like that's exact. That scenario scenario of it's 90 targets, it's 65 catches, 850 yards. How many times have we had to watch that? We've watched that happen so many times because we just think, well this guy was productive in this place, he's going to be productive here. And those small little idiosyncrasies and nuances with the role matter so much for getting the most out of those guys. And so allowing him to be in that situation where we've seen him thrive, it just. There's so much better. The chances of success are just so much higher because there's no, no confusion and there's no blurriness with what the role should be. You know exactly how to get the most out of this guy.
- [89:24]
E
100%. Like, and I think too you should always be considering am I signing this guy so he can just come in and replicate his production here? Probably a bad idea, but am I signing him to like help another player like Mike Evans? Again, he's this better version of what I thought Romeo Dobbs would bring to the Niners. Like him being that on ball X receiver allows like Ricky Pearsall to do more and move around and not just have to be a vertical guy. So you should always be kind of considering that as well opposite. Just like we're trying to, you know, Dave said earlier, like microwave this production for certain teams that that doesn't make a lot of sense. And specifically with guys that are hyper specific and if you're making it to free agency, you're a hyper specific type of receiver.
- [89:59]
A
Matt Harmon, always great to chat with you sir. People can check out all the work you're doing like four times a day. On Yahoo. We have the Fantasy, the Yahoo Fantasy podcast. You're on Football 301 with Nate. Always doing fantastic work. People are not checking out either of those. Please do so we will talk to you very soon.
- [90:16]
E
Appreciate you guys. Thanks for having me.
- [90:19]
A
Our last guest of the day got just Nothing but Runway here. Beth, for last, our buddy from Phly. My guy is our guy, Fran Duffy. Fran, how you doing, man?
- [90:30]
G
What's happening, guys?
- [90:31]
A
A lot, actually, that just came down that we have not talked about yet. There was a stretch. I love when this happens. We're just certain position groups. Just. It all happens at the time.
- [90:41]
E
Same.
- [90:41]
A
Same time we had the DD's about half an hour ago. We got the Edge Rushers now. You ready?
- [90:46]
B
I saw this one.
- [90:48]
G
I'm sorry.
- [90:48]
B
Well, you know, I can't.
- [90:50]
A
The whole vibe of the show.
- [90:51]
B
I can't stay off of Twitter for five hours. Go ahead, though.
- [90:55]
A
Bo Mafe. Three years, $60 million to sign with these.
- [90:59]
B
Okay. I did not see the price.
- [91:01]
G
Holy.
- [91:02]
A
Three years, $60 million for Boy Mafe. Okay, let's. I'll lay this one on you if you like that one. $20 million a year for Boy Mafe. The Washington Commanders are signing Odafe O. Four years, a hundred million for Odafe to go to Washington.
- [91:18]
F
Whoa.
- [91:19]
A
And so, again, I. The Edge rusher market had some interesting pieces in it, Fran. Compared to years past, we had Jalen Phillips, we had Adafe O, we have Boy Mafe. Was wondering where those prices would sort out. It's funny that we have equal distances. So you get Jaylen Phillips at $30 million a year, you get away at $25 million a year, and now you get Bo Mafia at $20 million a year. There's something very beau about that.
- [91:43]
G
Yeah, we had talked about it on our show earlier. Once the Jalen Phillips numbers came out and it was 30 million, we kind of thought, all right, it's going to be high. Maybe 27 a year, maybe 28 a year. We did not talk about 30 million a year. And so when that came through, I was like, all right, what does that mean for the rest of the market for OA to come in at 25? I. I like the scheme fit, you know, with Dan Quinn. I think that could be really fun. I think you get into some of the things that Durante Jones has done in the past, like, or, you know, been around Brian Flores moving those rushers around. That could be fun.
- [92:12]
A
Yeah.
- [92:12]
G
So I'm excited for. For that, but that's a. That's a. That's a pretty penny, man. I mean, you know, when you're looking at some of the other guys that are in that market or even just below that, you know, Danelle Hunter, before they just redid his deal, I mean, he was at 24. 5. So, like, that's. That's the, that's the echelon we're talking about now with where adafe always being paid. And then when you get into that next bucket with 20 million a year, I mean, that's. That's a. A big price to pay for or for. For. For. For the kid from Seattle. Just phenomenal, uh, that he was able to catch up in that way.
- [92:42]
B
I don't think we actually talked about this at the top of the show, but. And, and it, it was a big price to pay. But when I saw the Cowboys throw a fourth to the packers for what's left of Rashan Gary's contract, I thought
- [92:55]
A
you were gonna say for what's left of Rashan Gary. That's much meaner than I typically get from you.
- [92:59]
B
That is mean, but fair. Based on what Rashan Gary looked like in December and January, I, as soon as I saw I was like the edge rusher. Prices must be nuts. Like, the Cowboys must be terrified of what they're hearing out there if they're doing this. And I'm not saying it's going to work, but I understand the logic. If you'd rather hope Rashan Gary can give you more for a. For a future fourth than $25 million for ODAF OA or $20 million for Boya Mafe.
- [93:27]
A
There's. I really like this. So you look at just analogous contracts for what the ODAFA away contract looks like. Fran got $106 million over four years with $70 million guaranteed, always getting $100 million over four years with $68 million guaranteed. And so it just. I think it really speaks very cleanly to what free agency is versus what it looks like when you're resigning. Guys in your own building where Benito has been so much more productive and again, undersized guys, they give you a very specific sort of impact within the defense. But Bonito has been so much more impactful and consistent and productive over the course of his career than a OE is. But when you're hitting the market and you have these teams who are seeking out that skill set because they couldn't find their own guys, that's how you get to a place where ODAFA is worth the same amount of money as Nick Bonito.
- [94:17]
G
And it's, I'm sure the push pull that, you know, I look at it from a player's perspective as well, right? Where if you are. If you are Nick Bonito and you say, all right, well, I'm getting ready to hit the market, should I do I want to stay here in Denver where I've got a proven place where I want to be, I can have success. I'm happy with where I'm living. I'm happy in this situation with this coaching staff, with my teammates. Let's take this deal now where yeah, I'm, I'm pushing up near the top end of the market, but I could probably make more if I wait this out. But what happens if I get hurt? What happens if production falls off, you get out. There's all these other factors that come into play, but it's the, it's the Kirk Cousins thing, it's the Dak Prescott thing where it's like, yeah, like, but if you hit the market, you've got that ability to just push that future earnings number higher and higher and higher. So yeah, I definitely felt that honestly seeing a number of these contracts today, certainly at wide receiver, there were a number of numbers that, that surprised me. You guys were just talking about that. I think when you're looking certainly at these premium positions, I think you, you said it, you guys said it over the weekend. If you're an offensive lineman that can walk and chew gun at the chew gum at the same time, you're going to get like double digit million per year guaranteed. I think at the end of the day, wide receiver, pass rush, offensive line, those are, those are the premium spots. And even just suitable play, teams are willing to pay top dollar for that spot.
- [95:34]
A
Boy Mafe getting that $20 million a year if you look at it. And Paul Dana did a great job of pointing this out. If you account for cap inflation, it's essentially the exact same swing they took TON Trey Hendrickson five years ago. And that you think about the situations, Trey Hendrickson comes from New Orleans where he's the third edge rusher on that team and you're trying to bet on, okay, this is a guy who's productive. If we send him, if we put him into a role where he's getting more snaps, can we kind of just extrapolate that production into more playing time and can he be a valuable piece for us? That's exactly what Trey Hendrickson was for, for the Bengals on that contract. And now I think they're making a very similar bet here, Fran, about whether Boya Boffet can follow a similar path.
- [96:15]
G
I, I will say like I, I, when, when Hendrickson was leaving New Orleans, you know, I was with the Eagles at the time. The Eagles and the Saints had played a lot over the, whether it was post season, pre, in the, in the Regular season, they played a decent amount. It was like a four year stress. I'd watched a lot of Trey Hendrickson and I felt like that was a good, that was a, that was a good bet. That was a great signing in freezer. I was like, yeah, like I feel good about this. This is a good bet. Bet to make. I don't feel the same, the, the same warm and fuzzies about this bet for, for Cincinnati. You know, Mafe, I think that when you look at, at his game like he's, he, he had explosive traits going back to Minnesota. When he was coming out of college. You saw that the, the potential was absolutely there. But I never felt like that the whole was greater than the sum of the parts, you know, and I know that like some of the efficiency metrics can paint him in a good light, but I just, in watching Seattle over the last few years, like, you know, even this year, obviously with that defense, like the versatility I love, he could do a lot of different things and there's certainly value there. But I did not see that same level of like impact rusher where. All right, if I'm able to project this into a bigger role, I think the numbers are going to take off. That's going to be interesting to track.
- [97:20]
B
I was trying to get him at 14 million a year and good luck, my friend. I, you, I mean, you, you laid it out last week really well that the middle class doesn't exist anymore. No, I'm talking about, talking about defensive end contracts.
- [97:36]
A
We're at hour five different conversations, socioeconomic conversation.
- [97:40]
B
But I mean, it's, it's true, like you, I mean, you got to pay a premium for these guys or else you're, you're fishing at the bottom of the barrel.
- [97:48]
A
So the other, speaking of the Cowboys and the markets and the defensive players they were seeking out, Jalen Thompson is where the Cowboys land at safety. I believe I, I had the numbers and then I lost them. For Jaylen Thompson, three years, 36 million. Three years, 36 million. So this is, I love when this happens where we just have a price like this is what it costs, right, to sign a player at this in free agency. So in this class, it's 12 to 13 million dollars for a safety. Last year it was 17 or 16 to 18 million dollars for a corner. That's what we're doing. So Jaylen Thompson PR signs the 2026 free agent safety contract to have head to Dallas. You obviously watch Christian Parker very, you know, you know that system. You watch Christian Parker very closely. Over the last few years, as you think about how Jalen Thompson profiles into that defense and those roles that were filled by Reed Blankenship and others over the last couple years, how do you feel like Jalen Thompson fits into what Christian Parker wants to do?
- [98:48]
G
Yeah, I think that is. It is a good fit conceptually, and I think that there's some carryover with. What are the. Some of the things that he did with Nick Rallis, which, you know, out in Arizona, they did some wacky stuff, so it's not completely apples to apples, but in terms of trying to project him forward into this Christian Parker scheme, I do like the fit there. I think when you're looking at Thompson, you're betting on a guy that's got traits. Obviously, it was a unique situation with him coming out of college football, going in the supplemental draft. I think when you're looking at Thompson, this is a player that has that ability to work down close to the line. He could play split safety, move over to the post. I think that that versatility will serve him well. The biggest thing. And I think that when you take. Talk about that system, the. The safeties and the nickel are so, so important in terms of the. The term you always use, Robert, the. The connective tissue.
- [99:34]
A
Right.
- [99:34]
G
Of that defense, how often they have to. They are forced to communicate with those guys on. On either side and just being able to kind of pass things along and be kind of that sheriff there on the back end. It's important to kind of have, like, do you know that that's what you're getting with Jaylen Thompson? But right away, I'm like, all right, who does. Who. Who in that building and Dallas now can kind of speak to that. Well, their offensive coordinator, Clayton Adams, came from Arizona last year.
- [100:00]
A
Yeah.
- [100:00]
G
And can. Can speak to. Oh, you know. Yeah. Like, he can be that. He definitely is that kind of presence there. So I do think that that's probably a box you wanted to check here in Philly. We were wondering, all right, like, could Christian Parker pluck Reed Blanketship? There are a lot of safeties here in the market. Would they go with Reed Blanketship? Because he is that guy on the back end for the Eagles in terms of being that traffic cop and kind of setting the defense back there. So him being. Then deciding to go with Jalen Thompson and pass up Reed Blankenship, he. He must have had someone in there that was able to say, like, yeah, like, he's got the physical talent and provides the intangibles there.
- [100:32]
B
And he does. It's I mean, it's easy to draw the line and I did it on the show. Fran For RE Blankenship, Ryan Smith is the secondary coach in Dallas now, coming from Arizona. That was one of Christian Parker's hires.
- [100:46]
A
So, yeah, there you go.
- [100:46]
B
There you go.
- [100:47]
A
It's always. I always like this reminds me a little bit of when Cam Bynum signed with the Colts last year. When. When you have those safeties that are coming from those funky systems and you're just putting so much on those on the back end. I just. Because we always wonder, like, there's always a question of what's a guy going to look like in different circumstances. What's a guy going to look like when you put something different on his plate. And when you have guys that are coming from those defenses where everything is on their plate, I think you feel pretty good about what they can look like in a different situation. And so Jalen Thompson kind of fits that bill last year in the same way that Cam Bynum did going to the Colts. Anything else wise, that's a front of mind for you. And what happened today, obviously Jalen Phillips walks out of the building, but I mean, there's nothing you could do about that, right? Like, I mean, $30 million a year, it's like there's nothing you can do. It's. It becomes a version of what the Milton Williams thing was last year.
- [101:37]
B
I mean, Fran, like, what do y' all even do? Like, is everybody just bored in Philly right now? It's so quiet. Like you do Jordan Davis yesterday. But I don't know. I even, I, I would. I was expecting more activity because there's always activity with the Eagles.
- [101:52]
G
Yeah. I think the big thing was that we. And you kind of knew this coming in, that this was going to be a big off season. Next year will be the same in terms of like ext. Extending your own and resigning. And there, you know, I know that there has been a lot of reporting that they were trying to push to extend Jalen Phillips and get that deal done. To me, that there you were always going to have a walk away number there because the Eagles went into the season last year with Nolan Smith and Jalex Hunt and Nolan Smith at this time last year, everybody's like, you know, rocket to the moon with what he looked like in the postseason. He was just never really healthy this, this past year and was on injured reserve. They did. They had nobody opposite Jayla's Hunt, who was just a safety in the Ivy League like five years ago. So he was like, all right, like, he obviously took a big step this year, but you didn't have anybody opposite him. And so they go out, they make that trade, they feel motivated, they feel. They feel the urgency to trade for Jalen Phillips. Well, they. When they acquire him, it was like, yeah, this guy, he's. We want to keep this guy. He's. He's everything we want in the locker room, on the field, off the field. He's got all the traits. He's a great fit for the system. He's great for Vic. He can project forward into a new defense once Vic Fangio does retire. So I think that they would have liked to keep him, but at some point, it couldn't match what other teams were going to offer. And the point I made up on the show earlier today was that, like last year, Carolina, they. They lost out on Milton Williams. Remember, there was reported, oh, he's. Milton Williams is going to Carolina. And then New England swooped in and stole them out. So they weren't getting out bid this time for their. For their Eagles defensive lineman.
- [103:14]
A
I'm curious what you think the Jordan Davis deal means potentially for Jalen Carter. Like, do you think this is a move where one impacts the other? Like, is there smoke here? Like, how do you think this ultimately gets resolved with Carter after we saw that contract for Jordan Davis?
- [103:28]
G
You know, we. We talked about it a couple weeks ago where it was okay when if. Basically, no bad ideas, right? Let's throw everything out on the table. The different things that Howie Roseman, Nick Sirianni, leadership. Jeffrey, Larry can talk through here this off season. And one of the ideas was the idea of trading Alan Carter, even though when healthy, like, this guy is an elite player, and that's what you're trying to do in the draft is acquire elite talent. And the Eagles did that in the top 10. You go and you draft Jalen Carter last year, he was not healthy at all. He. He dealt with a shoulder, literally, was not health, was not on the field to start training camp because of one shoulder, ended up getting a procedure done, then got a procedure done on the second shoulder. So, like, you know, he was saying, you know, he couldn't do push up. He couldn't do a push up at some point mid season. And it's typically hard to do or hard to play defensive line if you can't use either shoulder. So I think when you're looking at Carter, what you saw last year is kind of a shell of what you would come to expect. And he was. He was dominant down the stretch in the second half, his second season, when they won the Super bowl in 2024, my gut tells me they would love to be able to try and get something done. And you want to try and extend him. And my guess is is that if he does get extended, he's going to set the ceiling, he's going to reset the market. You're at 31 and change right now with Chris Jones. From an APY standpoint, a defensive tackle, my guess is that Jalen Carter will surpass that when that deal does get done, whether that's with the Eagles or elsewhere. Now, a lot of the reporting has been that, you know, teams have called the Eagles. I, I know that there was like some scuttlebutt that when the, the Micah Parsons situation was happening down in Dallas, that Carter's name was floated in terms in exchange for Micah Parsons. And so there were some that said, oh well, would they do the same thing for Max Crosby? And so it's, it's been a lot of stuff in the wind, but nothing concrete. I do think that this is a great situation here in Philadelphia for Jalen Carter and I think that they know like this guy is a difference maker, a needle maker mover, one of the best players along the defensive line. So my guess is, is that they're going to try and get something done. I would not rule out, you know, if they, if they wanted to explore the idea of a trade. Mauro Ojimo is also a really good player and he's entering his contract year. I find it hard to believe that they would be able to give Jordan Davis the contract that they gave him and then pay Jalen Carter at top of market and then pay market value for Mauro Ojima, like you're not gonna be able to do all three, especially when you're giving out 30 million plus to Quinan Mitchell and Lord knows what it is going to be for Cooper Dean. And you just, there's too many guys for them to pay. It's one of the, the double edged sword of drafting the way that they have in the last few years. So when you're on that kind of heater, yeah, there's a lot of young talent that you got to pay. But the Jordan Davis contract blew me away. I was, I was surprised by that.
- [106:00]
A
Yeah, I mean we talked about a little bit yesterday. It's like, let's rewind a year. If I told you on March 8, 2025 that Jordan Davis was going to have the second highest AAV in the league among interior defensive linemen I'm not sure that's. You would have taken.
- [106:15]
G
Yeah, yeah. It's funny because as the Eagles are on that run to the super bowl, everyone's like, oh, the Georgia. The.
- [106:21]
E
The.
- [106:21]
G
The. The Georgia Dogs and all these guys. And Jordan Davis kind of got clumped in there. And in reality, because here's the thing, what's tough about Jordan Davis is that he's a very easy player to, to root for. He's a great personality. He's a great kid that everybody loves, everybody around the team. He's. He's beloved in the locker room. The fans love him. So there's a lot to like there. But in reality, had not up to that draft slot, was not playing it, you know, was not a presence on third down. So his early down presence and was really kind of a flash player against the run. What we saw this year, and there was all the talk, best shape, best shape of his life. And it all started going like, Midway through the 2024 season, second half of the year, he really kind of turned a corner with the way that he was, kind of his preparation and everything and handling his body right away, Week one. And remember, Jalen Carter, you know, spits on Dak Prescott, gets tossed from the game before the first play of the season starts. So right away, Jordan Davis in the spotlight. And I thought, going through the tape that night, you know, that next morning, he was outstanding. And it was like, all right, we have not seen Jordan Davis look like this. And he maintained that throughout the course of the year. Now, still was not really playing all that often on third down, but he had turned into a dominant, truly dominant point of attack player, a great run defender. And so when I'm looking at contract projections, I'm looking at like, all right, maybe like an uptick from what Travis Jones took from the Baltimore Ravens towards the end of the year. You know, that's not in the 20 plus million range. So when that came across on Saturday, that. That was the number that we got from Jordan Davis, I was shocked because you're putting him in the upper echelon. You're putting him. Even if you say, like, oh, we're going to count the fifth year option, and so it's not really 26 million, which is what Milton Williams got on the open market last year. It's actually closer to, you know, 22, 23 and a half, you know, that kind of thing. If you want to play it that way, that's fine. That's still Dexter Lawrence. That's still Duron Payne. Like, you know what I mean? Like that's still dominant players. Yeah. To me you can't give him that contract unless you think there's even more meat on the bone that he can take, you know, like he can ascend to that level level of player. There's been a lot of talk here in Philly like oh well he's taking the torch from Brandon Graham. He's that guy in the locker room if I'm bg, I'm like you didn't pay me that way. Like, you know what I mean? Like I didn't get that level of love financially. So yeah, it's. It's an interesting contract. We'll see where everyone how everybody feels about it here in Philly in a couple years.
- [108:34]
A
Let's put a period at the end of the edge rusher sentence here that we started with Fran Quitty pay $16 million a year to sign with the Raiders. It was funny, I thought the quiddie pay would be this year. Is that Dio Dangbo, right. Coming from the Colts, you know more flash and traits than production. But young guy, second contract guy is a team bet on him. He gets exactly the same amount that Diodango got in free agency last year to sign with the Bears.
- [108:58]
B
But having just heard these other deals come down, I like that doesn't blow me away.
- [109:03]
A
Well there were there the thing is about last year's free agent market at edge. And let me, I mean I without looking at it, I'm pretty sure this was the case last year there was was no Jalen Phillips boy Mafe or Odafe Oway. And on the edge market like that that player didn't exist. Like Josh Sweat was really the only guy that kind of fit that bill last year. I mean then Chase Young resigned with the Saints but that was it. I mean there were no guys that were worth really shelling out money for on the edge last year.
- [109:29]
F
This.
- [109:29]
A
This year was better. Like there was no denying that.
- [109:31]
B
If you can make peace with the fact that Tyler Linderbaum did a generational thing and just an insane leap in terms of like value of the contract and aav, I like what the Raiders have done today. Just I mean like I don't know if you can call Linder Bomb a sensible signing but I think it's a high floor sign signing and then three or four other like sensible signings that just make them a more well rounded football team. And other than Linder Bomb which that's a huge but like the rest like Eric Stokes, Jaylen Naylor Quiddy pay. These are not insane deals that are going to cripple you. So good. Good job, Raiders. I think I like what you did here, Fran.
- [110:10]
A
We're going to let you go. Always appreciate it, my friend. We will chat with you again as we get closer to the draft. I'm sure. Best of luck over the next month and a half. We'll talk to you soon.
- [110:20]
B
Later, man.
- [110:20]
G
Yep, sounds good, guys.
- [110:21]
D
Appreciate it.
- [110:23]
A
All right, so one of the first things we talked about today was whether Tua would sign with the Falcons. That has happened officially.
- [110:30]
D
Officially.
- [110:32]
A
Sources tell the athletic for Diana Rossini that the Atlanta Falcons plan to sign Miami Dolphins quarterback to attack on a one year deal.
- [110:39]
B
You know, selfishly, I just appreciate getting it out of the way because like, remember, remember when Russ signed with Pittsburgh and he like they like people saw him on his flight to Pittsburgh and like there were photos of Russ at the airport and it was this high stakes drama. Except it's not. Because what are this Russell Wilson Steelers even getting to be? Just, let's just get it out of the way. Like let's get, let's get Tua where he needs to be. I'd love to wrap the Kyler thing up ASAP as well. We don't need to drag these into being like one and two week contract standoffs. Let's just, let's just do it.
- [111:14]
A
So obviously that's going to be one of the big, big things has to fall tomorrow. We still have no Trey Hendrickson deal as we're four and a half hours into this. Most of the other top free agents, let's pull up this off.
- [111:23]
E
Yeah.
- [111:24]
B
Can we see the list really quickly? Yeah, that's okay.
- [111:28]
A
I mean for the most part, I mean it's been updated with all the guys that have signed. Right? I mean Rasheed Walker hasn't gone anywhere yet. Hendrickson, Devin Lloyd, Illuminor. We got the OA thing in there. Well, we went to Washington, but we still got to change the. A couple of the logos. But the, the color of the names is correct. So those are some of the bigger names that are still on the board.
- [111:49]
G
Why?
- [111:50]
B
Kind of surprised that we've had enough going on that I haven't spent a lot of time thinking about it. But like, I'm kind of surprised Devin Lloyd wouldn't be one of the first guys off the board. Like Alec Pierce was gone 90 seconds after this all opened. So for an unquestionably top of his position guy, first round pick, young play, like second contract player, for him to still Be sitting there is interesting to me.
- [112:13]
A
Worthwhile question. Obviously we had some big spending teams. Jets spending a ton of money today, the Titans spending just the Titans insane amount of money.
- [112:23]
B
Godly amount of money.
- [112:24]
A
So let's go through the Titan sightings just very quickly before we get out of here. Okay. Looking at what the Titans have done, we have four year 78 million for Wand Robinson. Three years $63 million for John Franklin Myers, three years $60 million for Alante Taylor, three years 45 million for Codel Flat. And then just, it feels like just thrown in. It's like me at dinner where I'm just like, yeah, we'll take that too.
- [112:46]
B
That, that does do that, by the way. It's great.
- [112:48]
A
Daniel Ballinger, 3 for. 3 for 24.
- [112:51]
E
So just.
- [112:51]
B
That's the. That's the roasted Brussels. In this order. Like. Yeah, okay, we'll do the roasted Brussels.
- [112:56]
A
Yeah, there's some interesting, like. Oh, it's got like a weird like orange thing on it. Yeah, I'll take that. So we. Right now, if you're adding it up. 84. This is. I'm going to do some terrible math.
- [113:05]
B
Wait, I. I got over the cap. Has it. I'm looking at it.
- [113:08]
A
Total guarantees.
- [113:08]
B
Total guarantees. 84 million in total guarantees for the Titans.
- [113:12]
D
That's what it says.
- [113:12]
A
No, no, no, no. That's just Alante Taylor and John Fr. Franklin Myers.
- [113:16]
B
It must not be updated.
- [113:17]
F
It's.
- [113:17]
A
It's about $170 million in the first day.
- [113:22]
B
They do have their total and I know it like if it's not guaranteed, it doesn't really matter. But according to this. So the Panthers have spent the second most total money today. Most of that's obvious.
- [113:33]
A
Yeah, they give Jam folks $120 million,
- [113:36]
B
so it's $121 million. So their other signing was negligible. They're $130 million behind the amount of money. The Titans have gotten it out today.
- [113:46]
A
Great stuff.
- [113:47]
B
2,259 million total.
- [113:50]
A
When you see teams succeed with approaching things a certain way, I think that you can start talking yourself into it. And like we said it. The Titans hiring Robert Salah. It was like, this is Mike Vrabel. Correction. We want. We want Mike Vrabel. We want. We want Robert Salah to be the. The Patriots version of Mike Brable. And they are spending money like the Patriots did last season heading into year two of that rookie quarterback contract. So Titans have spent a ton. I'm sure there will be other teams that start nipping at their heels as we move it into tomorrow for now, based on the signings that are rolling in, I think that's all we're going to have. This is the only day we're doing this, the only day we're going to be live for 5ish hours. But we will be live every day this week. Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday at least over the next three days. We will be here 2:00pm Central Time tomorrow, 3:00pm Eastern Eastern. Fingers crossed that Derek will be here. I don't want to count my chickens here considering some of the travel issues we had yesterday, but Derek should be here. We'll be wrapping up each day of free agency 3pm Eastern right here at this desk over the next three days. Very much looking forward to that. Really, really, really, really appreciate everyone who stopped by today. I don't even know if I can roll through all of them without missing anybody. So there we go. Thank you to Bill Barnwell, JP Acosta, Jordan Rodrigue, Deontay Lee, Nate Tice, Ben Sol, Kelly Connor or Mina Kimes, Mike Sando, Carmen Vitali, Trevor Sikma, Sham, Sam Schwarzstein, Matt Harmon and Fran Duffy. I love doing it this way.
- [115:21]
B
What a what a cast. Thank you all so much for hopping on.
- [115:25]
A
It is a busy day for everybody. Obviously everyone else is working and so the fact that people are willing to take time out of a busy day and a busy week to join us, I truly do appreciate it. It's just a fun thing to do, you know, it's a fun thing to cycle through everybody, get their thoughts, be able to respond to this stuff in real time. I meant it at the beginning of the stream. Truly one of my favorite days of the entire year in the NFL calendar. Just because it's a shit show, it's non stop. There's things flying your way all day. It's a blast. Appreciate everybody who spent time with us today. We will be back Tomorrow right here 3:00pm Eastern. Until then, appreciate you listening. We'll talk to you soon.
- [116:07]
E
Foreign.
- [116:14]
A
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A
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H
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