← The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL
The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL
Free agency wrap: Taking stock of a busy start to the new league year
01:03:45
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Dave
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Robert Mays
its two juicy beef patties, three slices of melted cheese and tangy Big Arch sauce, the Big Arch is what happens when you start making a McDonald's burger and never stop. The Big Arch the most McDonald's McDonald's burger yet for a limited time. Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mays, architect. Our fourth day of free agency coverage here on the feed. Do a little bit of a wrap up today. It's been a little bit slower. The news rolling in over the last 24 hours or so. We did hit almost all of the smaller signings that have happened. The OSA De Gazooa trade, Jonathan Allen going to the Bengals, they actually did fit into a lot of the categories that we hit today, but that's what we did today. Ran through about eight to 10 different categories. Little superlatives about what the free agency class has looked like up to this point. Our favorite fits the best values, the high risk move that we like the most, the signings we didn't know we needed until we actually saw them and more like that. So a little bit of a zoom out on what the first 72 hours of free agency have looked like so far with me, Dave and Derek. Let's get to that conversation right now. Day four of our free agency coverage here on the Athletic Football Show. The signings, the moves, they have started to slow down. And so today we're going to zoom out a little bit and just talk about some of the most notable moves that have happened over the last 72 hours or so, we'll talk about our favorite fit, some of the values that we like, some of the bigger, maybe high risk signings that we think are worth the dive that these teams are making. Before that, Derek though, we're going to dive into a couple of the bits of news that have come out over the last week or so.
- [02:58]
Derek
Actually.
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Robert Mays
No, no, I think we're, we're, we're going to hit some of those in most of the categories that we're talking about today. So let's just get straight to the categories. We've got about a dozen of them here that we want to get to today. Let's just start with those favorite fits. Dave, as you look at the first 72 hours of free agency here and you look at all of the signings that have happened, what is your favorite fit so far, player to team that you have seen?
- [03:19]
Dave
I don't agree with a few of the things that they've done this week but, and, and he was already doing this but last night when the Titans traded for Solomon Thomas completing this jets back to Titans arc, I just, I really love it like Robert Sala's desire to recreate his Jets D line and build it around Jeffrey Simmons instead of Quinn and Williams like that being the main difference. But you got JFM back in the fold. Jermaine Johnson was added way back at the combine. Now you bring in Solomon Thomas and all those guys are still playing pretty good football. Like Solomon Thomas was a useful piece for the Cowboys. Not anything amazing but just a good rotational depth piece. Jermaine Johnson, we, we've talked all week about how much we love jfm. I just, I think that fits and they're back with Robert Sala and I find it very funny and, and I think it's going to work.
- [04:09]
Robert Mays
We'll talk about the Titans a couple different times on this show. There those moves I understand like trying to rebuild that front and getting guys that have played that front for you. That makes sense to me. A couple of the other things that they did. I'm like, I'm curious why it's not all we'll get to them in other categories.
- [04:23]
Dave
Definitely not all good.
- [04:25]
Robert Mays
What was your favorite fit so far of this week Derek, of all the signings that you've seen. So up to this point I have
- [04:30]
Derek
one that's like big ticket and then one that's a little bit smaller ticket. The big ticket one to me is like Ken Walker to the Chiefs I think is awesome. Like a team that we have for two years now. Desperately said like they need some pop. Whether it's at running back, whether it's at tight end, receiver, whatever it is, they need somebody who can get explosives. I think Ken Walker obviously brings that to them so long as he can stay healthy, which this year he did finally after that having kind of been an issue for him for other years. The other one I really loved was Draymond Jones. The Patriots like that is just an extremely like I know like the Caleb on Chase on gave them a lot last year, but to now go and get an ass kicker for Mike Rabel's defense, I'm pretty in love with that.
- [05:06]
Dave
I like the Patriots did that last year. They signed some attitude guys that could sort of do the variable thing and just doubling down on it. This week has been fun. Like Draymond Jones. Reggie Gilliam is another name that comes to mind. Just make him even more of Rabsey than it already was.
- [05:21]
Robert Mays
Looking at the Kenneth Walker signing, I can understand an argument that you have enough holes we're spending $14 million on a running back. Is that the best use of your available resour? But Dave, everything I've come to understand about this running back class in particular is that it's a pretty far departure from what last year's group looked like when there was a ton of guys available into the second through fourth rounds. And so I think that has to play into the discussion like this almost feels like two years ago when we had that really good free agent running back class, there weren't a lot of running backs available in the draft. It pushed those numbers up a little bit. It feels like that might be happening again. And I think it's easier to get on board with the che with what the Chiefs did, knowing that there might not be the same amount of dart throws in the third and fourth round that there was last year.
- [06:04]
Dave
I'll say the same thing I said Monday, and I like Kenneth Walker as a player. I don't love the idea of spending that much money on a running back just as a general thing, especially for a team that's a little bit strained financially. But you're so right. You look at it and it becomes a lot more palatable because I use the same example. You draft Clyde Edwards a lair, it doesn't work out and you spend the next four years kicking yourself and saying, that could have been Jonathan Taylor. Holy shit. How good would we be if we had chosen a different Running back number 32 overall instead? This year is not the year to do that. Like it's easy to circle pick 29 because you have it from the Rams now in the Trent McDuffie trade and say there's our running back that doesn't really exist this year. It's Jeremiah Love who's going to be a top 10 pick. Even, even with all the teams that have added running backs, I still think Jeremiah Love is going to be a top 10 pick one way or the other. And then after that, it's a pretty long wait for the next guy. I mean, I think you're talking about his teammate out of Notre Dame, Jadarian Price. You're talking about Jonah Coleman out of Washington. I know Mike Washington out of Arkansas made himself a lot of money at the combine, but there's no consensus second running back off the board. And even if there is, he's probably not going to go until mid to late second round at the absolute earliest. Like there isn't a second first round running back in this class. So you take all that stuff and you say, all right, if, if you don't want Love at nine or if you don't think he'll last to nine, this is a fairly effective way to spend your, your cap space. So I didn't like it at first. And then when you think about the actual parameters of this specific league year, I think it makes more sense.
- [07:42]
Robert Mays
And you look at what they've done in free agency. I mean, the big ticket items that the Chiefs needed other than running back, they do still need, right? They're still, they still want a pass rusher at some point. I still, I will continue to bang this drum until I'm blue in the face. I still want like a big body per receiver as part of this overall like plan that they have going on that side of the ball. I still, I'm curious what the Joann Jennings market will look like. I'm curious if we get to a place where he is available for a price that the Chiefs can justify adding a guy like that on top of everything else they've done. But even if they don't go do that in free agency, Dave, they have a ninth overall pick. There are potentially receivers available in the top 10. They are picking again in the back half of the first round with that Rams pick. So the idea of them finding an edge rusher and a receiver combined in the first round, that's still very much on the board. And then you look at some of the smaller things that they've done. Alohi Gillman, they signed Kader Kohu today and so Cater co did not play last year, but he has been a starting caliber nickel in the NFL when he has been healthy. He did not play last year for the Dolphins and they had no Williams that they drafted in the third round last year. He flashed enough where I think you felt comfortable moving on from Trent McDuffie. And so now the back end, like you could make an argument that what you really need to do here now is kind of replenish that depth in the middle to late rounds, which they can, which they consistently do. And so even if they came into free agency with a decent amount of holes, I do think that some of the smaller signings they've made, plus all the picks that they have, there is a chance that we're looking at this team on May 1st. And even with the amount of money allocated to Kenneth Walker, we say, hey, they filled most of the spots we wanted them to this offseason, they filled
- [09:21]
Derek
most of the spots they wanted to. And outside of maybe somehow finding the money for Trey Hendrickson or whatever, if we just said going into free agency, the Chiefs are going to spend big money on one playmaker somewhere, Ken Walker, like in terms of what they needed and where they needed was probably the best that they were going to do. Like the Alec Pierce they were probably going to get priced out of. And then a lot of the other receivers, like I really like Romeo Dobbs, I would probably rather spend the amount of money they're spending on Kenneth Walker than I would like a Romeo Dobbs. And Romeo Dobbs would be a great fit for their offense. But like I like what Kenneth Walker brings to their offense compared to Romeo Dobbs.
- [09:53]
Dave
Just because I think we're so conditioned to think the receiver is more valuable but.
- [09:57]
Derek
But he's not explos and we're all saying what do they need?
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Dave
Absolutely. And I think we're trending back toward a place where like running back, it's still positional value, still matters, but it doesn't need to be as much of an afterthought as it was four or five years ago.
- [10:10]
Robert Mays
And I think Juwan Jennings there's a chance that Juwan Jennings comes at a similar price to what Kenneth Walker did. 14ish million dollars a year. And so you might have had to choose between those two guys. And then you think about the draft in concert with that. There is a good chance they have intel that Jeremiah Lopes isn't going to be there for them at nine. And so the idea of going running back at nine and receiver in free agency, if that's not an option, do you just flip it in the way that they did?
- [10:33]
Dave
I think as long as you're addressing the things in some way or another. And if you got pick nine and pick 29, it's a sick year to need an edge. Like even, even at pick 29.
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Robert Mays
Music to my ears, baby.
- [10:44]
Dave
You don't say that often. Like even in the back end of the first round. I think there will be guys you'd be excited about. And this isn't the most loaded receiver class of all time, but there's just
- [10:53]
Derek
a lot of them.
- [10:54]
Dave
I mean, I think I've said it before. Dane 17 in his top 100. So it, there's always going to be receivers and it's a great year to need an edge. So when you have all of that in your, in the back of your mind, I think it makes a lot more sense to spend the money on Kenneth Walker.
- [11:10]
Robert Mays
My favorite fit among all of the signings that have happened up to this point in free agency, I legitimately think is Jalen Thompson going to the Cowboys.
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Derek
That is a great one.
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Dave
I do love that.
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Robert Mays
I just really like that. I just. You look at the price, it's 11 million. The guys at the top of the, at the, of the safety market have made around like 13. Talk about Cam Curl, Brian Cook, Kobe Bryant, all those guys are right in 13. Jalen Thompson's a little bit older, but when you think about all the quarters those Cardinals teams played, what he is is a guy coming downhill. He's played in a bunch of different systems. He's a veteran player. I just, I think that's a really good fit for what that defense is likely going to want to look like with Christian Parker. And safety is a position consistently that I like spending that mid tier free agent contract on because it's all about what sort of floor are you operating that spot. And I think that that's the difference to me of like, and these are Trevor Merrick is a more dynamic player than Jalen Thompson is. And I think that the Trevor Merrick signing as a second contract player has looked good so far for the Panthers. But to me, when you get up near the top of the market or you start pushing into like the top 10 at the position, that's where I think maybe you can overpay a little bit. But when you're paying just middle of the road money for starting safeties and free agency, it typically is a good aisle to be shopping in. And so for the Cowboys to go find a guy at that price range that I think fits what they want to be. That's one where the more and more that I think about it, I'm just like, I like that when they walked into this off season in a we need to plug some holes placed defensively and I think he's the perfect sort of player for that sort of mindset.
- [12:45]
Dave
Similar to what you said about the Titans. I don't love everything the Cowboys have done or more so the lack of some things that they've done. But that is a, that's a departure from what they usually do like spending what did it come out to like
- [12:58]
Robert Mays
11 million a year?
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Dave
Yeah, that's. That's per year. Like they typically they rarely cross over the 10 million per year threshold. And even if it's only by a little bit. I spent a couple hours watching him on Monday after that came down and I was like, oh yeah, this makes all the sense in the world for a lot of reasons. And he is an older player that he's heading into year eight, I believe he's only 28. He's turning 28. Like he, he was a young player when he came in. So to be a third contract guy, he's a little bit younger than you might guess for a guy who's starting his third deal. I like, I like that for a lot of reasons.
- [13:30]
Robert Mays
Let's shift to value here. Just guys that you look at the money and you look at what they could potentially give the teams that they signed with and you just like the bet that these teams are making. Derek, let's start with you. Your favorite value signing of free agency as we move through day four here
- [13:45]
Derek
has been what I mean talking about safeties. I really like Reed Blankenship to the Texans. Like I just like he there's gonna,
- [13:51]
Dave
there's gonna be some overlap here on this show. If I had to guess like he
- [13:54]
Derek
just as a guy be a solid roll down in the box. Like be your hook player, be a late fitter in the alley. Like certain stuff like that. He is really, really good at that. And 8 and a half ish million for what they're going to get for him a year is really not that much for like quality level safety play. And he is again I've said this before, he's going to be the fifth when they're in nickel he's the fifth best DB on the field which is a great spot to be in when one the rest again the rest of your secondary is that good. But they've got guys all around. The rest of this defense, obviously Aziz Al Shayer is a really good linebacker, and then that front is about as good as it get. So I think them. I really, really like what Reed Blankenship can do for this defense.
- [14:32]
Dave
Reed Blankenship. We're going to go through a list of categories. The. The one I put him in was signing. You didn't know you needed.
- [14:39]
Derek
Oh.
- [14:40]
Dave
Cause like, in your mind, you're like, the Texans have everything.
- [14:43]
Derek
Like what?
- [14:43]
Dave
Like, I'm not thinking about the Texans defense. They need to fix their offensive line. They need to do this and that. And then when I saw that deal, I was like, yes. Oh, my God, that's fun.
- [14:52]
Robert Mays
That's funny because that one more safety is like, to me, was at one of like, the top of their list in terms of what they needed.
- [14:58]
Dave
I. I hear you, but like, like, what is like a blinking red light or what would you consider, like, it
- [15:03]
Derek
was like if they didn't address it, they could get away with.
- [15:05]
Dave
Exactly.
- [15:06]
Robert Mays
It's truly like when you. When you're going through an exercise, whatever publication you want to look at where it's like just team needs and they're listed one after the other. Positionally, it would be like the third one on the Texans line, but like another starting safety, I feel like is absolutely something they could have done. And so that is the exact type of player that I would have anticipated. There are going to be a couple Texans moves on this list for different categories, but I think that's a really good one. I'll just say mine because I think it's in a similar sort of vein. I love Jalen Hawkins for $5 million a year to the Ravens.
- [15:34]
Dave
It's really good.
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Robert Mays
Like, it. It's. So we. The conversation we were having about Devin Bush. Devin Bush, Devin Lloyd, where he gets a little bit less than you thought, and one of the reasons was one year producer, as teams were thinking, like, trying to figure out how much to pay him. Jalen Hawkins, same sort of deal, late breakout player. And you have a late breakout player who's a little bit older combined with a flooded market. And so if you're trying to figure out how does a Jalen Hawkins played really good football last year.
- [16:00]
Derek
Yeah.
- [16:01]
Robert Mays
So how does a guy who played that well only million. I think those are the two factors. He's a little bit older, and there are 10 starting safeties available in free agency. And so the market gets depressed a little bit. But that doesn't mean that a year from now that 5 million bucks might not look really, really good if he plays even close to the level that he played at last year. And so to get a guy who I think can be that starting caliber safety for you, a starting caliber safety plus for the Ravens at $5 million a year, I think that's one that it could look really good in a year. And even if he doesn't play well, you lose $5 million in the couch cushions in free agency. Like there's just very little risk associated with that sort of move. Yeah.
- [16:41]
Derek
And I don't even think he needs to play. If he gives you exactly what Alohi Gillman gave you last year, which I think, I think he's a better player than Elohim Gilman, then it's like a very, very good move.
- [16:49]
Robert Mays
When I was thinking starting caliber safety plus, it was Alohi Gilman plus exactly what I was thinking about in my head as I said that.
- [16:56]
Dave
One of my lasting memories from this free agency period, when we look back on it in future years, will be when we were in the middle of a conversation about like, ah, are the Ravens just as stupid as every other team in the NFL after this Max Crosby fiasco? That's when they do that deal and we're just like, ah, smart team, great signing, Classic Ravens.
- [17:15]
Robert Mays
What's your, what's your value pick?
- [17:16]
Dave
In a world where Tyler Linderbaum got 27 million a year, Connor McGovern got 13 million a year, he's actually the fifth highest paid center coming out of this week. Cade Mays getting him, getting him for $8 million a year in Detroit.
- [17:30]
Robert Mays
And I get it, I'd be odish, actually is my number one. So we're in the same sort.
- [17:33]
Dave
Yeah, I think getting Cade Mays for a lesser salary to go to Detroit, I just, I love the value there. And I know it's a limited number of reps. Like Biotish is a four or five year starter at this point. Like that.
- [17:44]
Robert Mays
So like that's the difference. Right. Is that the theoretical ceiling for Cade Mays because of the power that he's bringing you? There is like an unrealized bit of potential for him because we just haven't seen him as much. But at center, again, it kind of reminds me of safety where I want the floor. Like I want to make sure that I reach a certain floor at the position. And so Biotish giving you like quality starter reps at 10 million a year when Linderbaum's getting 27, that's one where I'm like, you know what, I just really like that. As soon as it happened, I really liked it.
- [18:15]
Dave
I Think I like the fit with Maze too, though, where he. I mean, like, you. You talked about having the FU center, but also when you have Jared Goff, I love the idea of having a center who. It's hard to push him back. Like, he is just a powerful guy who can hopefully give you pocket integrity. He's hard to move around, even if he's not the most athletic center available. And so, yeah, to. To get him at a. Because we go into free agency every year and you're expecting silly money to get thrown around. And sometimes it does, but to get him for $8 million a year, I just think it's. It's extremely good value. And then you look at some of the other good pieces that the Lions have on their line. I just. I liked that a lot.
- [18:54]
Robert Mays
I had two more. Okay. Mike Evans for $14 million a year is. Yeah, phenomenal. I like. Even if you think he's on the
- [19:00]
Dave
back half, that's like, that's.
- [19:02]
Derek
He just has to be good for one year.
- [19:03]
Dave
I wonder how many. I wonder how many teams who didn't think they were in the Mike Evans business were like, wait, that's what he was willing to sign for?
- [19:10]
Robert Mays
Well, he was willing to sign for that in San Francisco. And that's. That's the thing. And so that's one of those moments where when you have a really nice infrastructure, you can potentially coax somebody like that to take a little bit less. And so, again, even if we're on the back half with Mike Evans, even if next year is a step back from where he was this year, we're
- [19:28]
Dave
definitely on the back half of Mike Evans. We're in the twilight of Mike Evans.
- [19:31]
Robert Mays
Back half is probably the wrong way to say it. If you look at the 2024 production, Mike Evans was an excellent player in 2024. He was a step back of last year. And if we take the similar step back this year, I think that can still happen. And he's worth $14 million a year to your offense like that, even if you're baking in further depreciation.
- [19:53]
Dave
I completely mean the. The number that came out blew me away. So, yeah, when you. I mean, what.
- [19:59]
Robert Mays
What did it.
- [19:59]
Dave
It came out to like, $14 million a year.
- [20:01]
Robert Mays
Like, after 14 million, I think it was 14 million, like a one year of kind of $14 million deal is like, what it ends up being because
- [20:06]
Derek
you're not paying him to be a one now, which is like, you're paying him to be like a 1B on a team that also has George Kittle and also has cmc. Like the skill player group is like, is very full.
- [20:16]
Dave
It's funny you say that because that was my thought process. I think even consider even if you have doubts about him or, or if you're not convinced because of the price tag, Romeo Dobbs's AAV is outside the top 25 in the current receiver landscape.
- [20:34]
Derek
So like I did think you would get more than that.
- [20:35]
Dave
That's to get Romeo Dobbs at like $17 million a year. It sounds insane. I consider that a discount or a bargain at least.
- [20:43]
Robert Mays
It's just the further increase on inflation to like what Darnell Mooney got a couple years ago, like that. That's the. The like 2ish receiver. That's the market now. And I think that's kind of what Romeo Dobbs is in should be to
- [20:56]
Dave
get Dobbs for two money basically and still be able like, obviously I think New England needs to try to find a better receiver, but you can do that in the draft. You can. Maybe they try to do something crazy like trade for AJ Brown later on in the year, but you're not like, if Romeo Dobbs isn't putting up wide receiver one numbers, you're like, well, yeah, he's not a wide receiver one and we're not paying him like one. So I consider that a good deal.
- [21:19]
Robert Mays
I have one that's like very, very deep. The Panthers are in a spot where they lose Cade Maze in free agency gets paid a little bit more than you might expect coming into the year. Austin Corbett's a free agent. Ikea Kwan is going to be out for a good chunk of the season with the Achilles. They signed Luke Fortner and Stone Forsythe to a combined $6 million. And there I think that's a we. If we need to get by with this, these are the guys we need to get by with. And so to be able to potentially solve those problems for a short period of time for 6 million, do I actually think those are like decent signings by the Panthers for where they are right now?
- [21:54]
Dave
Luke Fortner got to New Orleans with like a bad reputation coming out of Jacksonville, but played well for them and we'll see where it goes. But like, for that money, who cares if it doesn't work out again, you lose that money in the couch cushions doing the free agency game. So I. Yeah, I thought that was a really great budget signing.
- [22:11]
Robert Mays
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- [22:15]
Derek
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Robert Mays
See Offer page for details. All right, let's move beyond value to guys throwing some money around. What is the big money high risk move that you have liked the most over the first three days?
- [25:19]
Derek
Derek it's not insane money because he did take a discount for the reason that he is a high risk move. But Elijah Vera Tucker for the for the Patriots is like he's there's not a guarantee that he's like ever really going to be that healthy again. Obviously in 2022 and 2023 only played a combined 12 games because he tore his right tricep in 2022. In 2023 he tore his Achilles and then obviously last year missed all of 2025 with a torn left tricep. So now both of his triceps have been torn and so there's a chance that he just never has the same punch that you wanted. He never quite reaches that like Pro bowl ish potential. But he's in for as long as he can be on the field he will probably still be an upgrade. And if he is healthy, in the event that he recovers well from all of these things, he's still relatively young and we know what the ceiling can be. And so I, I really like that this is a move where again, it's not insane money, but he could like very clearly overshoot the value here if he just stays on the field, the
- [26:13]
Robert Mays
guard market in general. So you have AVT at that price, which was a pretty sizable price for a guy who struggled to stay healthy. You have Zion Johnson making with Zion Johnson made given his, let's call it uneven career up to this point. And then David Edwards is what, going to be 29 this year. This is age 29 season and those are the guys that all got big money. Like there is some buyer beware with all three of those guys. And with Edwards, obviously I think he's the safest bet of the three guys at the top of the market. But you had to pay a premium to get him. That's a real amount of money that the Saints had to shell out. We'll talk about that Signing, because I actually like that signing a lot. But I still feel like, like, and I was thinking about this in relation to the Chargers, specifically, where people are going to get so frustrated that they have not spent money on a starting guard and then they decided to skimp on and they. The guy that they went with was Cole Strange for six and a half million bucks or whatever it was. And I look at those guard contracts and I'm like, who would you have wanted among all those guys? Like, maybe the answer is Sello Mallo, but I still feel like most of those guard contracts that got handed out, like Ed Ingram made $12 million. Is that the market that you want to be in? Almost every single one of those guard contracts has come with a pretty big tax for just competency at that position,
- [27:28]
Derek
which I think is interesting now, too, because a lot of the old, like, capable guards are still out there. Like, Kevin Zeitler is unsigned. Wyatt Teller is unsigned. Joel Batonio is still unsigned. Like, a lot of these guys, for teams that have waited out the guard market can probably still find an answer if they want to.
- [27:44]
Robert Mays
And that's. That's the argument. Right? Would you rather have. If Joe Boutonio decides to play somewhere that's not Cleveland and you can get Joe Batonio for $7 million, would you rather do that over spending $14 million a year on Elijah Vera Tucker? I don't know. But there's real risk with all of the guard contracts that have been handed out. There's no perfect players.
- [28:02]
Dave
It's an interesting point about the veterans that are still available. And if, if the Chargers find their way to one of those guys, it would make me happy. But I think we. We talked about it a day or two ago where, like, when you're top three in cap space, who cares if. Like, if, if the guy doesn't live up to the deal, whatever. I'm like, just protect Justin Herbert at all costs. And I. It's. It's not good optics to not be turning over every stone to try to protect the quarterback that gets killed every single year behind your offensive line. You got draft picks and to bring back two of the guys that have a hand in that, too, like Trey Pipkins and Trevor's making like 5 million
- [28:41]
Robert Mays
bucks a year, though.
- [28:42]
Dave
Like I said, it's. It's optics. It's not. I get it. They're going to do more. I hope they do more because. Because they had the money to do better. I need them to do more. If. And I think a big thing. You have to remember is that it's March 12th and all of these teams are going to look vastly different by the beginning of May. But I don't blame Charger fans if they're frustrated about that.
- [29:03]
Robert Mays
Dave, what's the high risk move that you have liked the most so far?
- [29:06]
Dave
I've said it already, but I mean Jalen Phillips has missed 25% of his possible games as a pro and he got $30 million which I consider to be hugely risky. But when he's on the FIELD his last two full seasons, top 10 in pressures, I think it's, it's worth the risk that he's put the injuries behind him. And if he has, there is no doubt in my mind he's going to be awesome. You put him on a front with Derek Brown. Nick Scorton showed you some fun stuff last year. Wharton is still there. Like that could be a pretty kick ass front in short order and all. It, it just, he just needs to be healthy. Like again, I get nervous projecting, oh, this guy's been a 2 and now he's going to be a 1. Is he worth that kind of money? No. Jalen Phillips whips ass. He just needs to be healthy. So that is a risk. But I feel convicted about who he is as a player as long as he's on the field.
- [29:56]
Derek
Like it totally is an overpay. But I do like it too because we, how much did we say? Right. Because we said last offseason like the Panthers really paid to be competent up front and they were better up front. The pass rush was still awful for most of the season outside of a few Nick Scorton moments. And so now pairing him with a guy who is a, maybe not the best number one style of rusher, but like he, he can be a number one for you. And so it feels like a lot of money. But again, if he can stay healthy, he's a young player, you know what he is when he's on the field. Like this is probably pretty good for them.
- [30:26]
Robert Mays
I also think that we can reframe what we think about when it comes to number one rushers. Like the team just won. Who's the Seahawks best pass rusher?
- [30:36]
Dave
Great question.
- [30:40]
Derek
Probably Leonard Williams.
- [30:42]
Robert Mays
And Leonard Williams is but on the, but on the edge.
- [30:44]
Derek
It's like I don't know.
- [30:45]
Robert Mays
Yeah, Leon Williams is a very good player. Leonard Williams, when you, and if you're talking about like number one rushers on teams, he is not the type of player that comes to mind. Like you don't think of Leonard Williams as like A true ace pass rusher. And obviously the Seahawks are a very unique case, right? Like their third edge rusher just made $20 million a year in free agency. They have a level of depth and quality across the board that you don't normally see. But I also think that we can take some signal from that and just look at these more as collective units rather than oh, he's not a number one, so he's not worth a certain price. The way I've talked, I talked about it a lot yesterday when we were discussing some of this stuff and the place that I've landed on, place I'm landed with this is impact players, right? Is it an impact player that you were signing in free agency? It's really, really, really hard to find like true impact edges at free agency. In free agency, for the most part, you are getting rotational and guys that are complementary pieces, not really impact guys. And I think that Jalen Phillips is an impact edge rusher in free agency and that for players like that you have to pay a significant premium. And I think I'm okay with them paying a significant premium for that sort of skill set dropped into your team. Even if he's not a number one guy who's going to get you 13 sacks.
- [32:06]
Dave
I think it's fun that he got that contract after a five sack season and has never had a double digit sack season in his career. I mean that stuff does matter, but yeah, there's there, there's more than one way to be dominant as a rusher than to just have 16 sack seasons.
- [32:23]
Robert Mays
The guy I keep coming back to in the comparison I've made with this, it reminds me of the Bears and Montez sweat. Like that, that, that is, I think, and we're talking tiers of players. That is what it reminds me of. And the Bears had to give up a second round pick and $24 million a year to get Montez Sweat. So you're paying $30 million, which is a lot, but there's no draft pick involved in that. And so if you think about the overall price for both of those players, I actually think it's an okay thing to do if you're the Panthers. Again, it's risky, but these are the risky moves that are worth making and I just think that's one of them.
- [32:58]
Dave
And again, it's, it's just availability. Like when he's out there, he's been a good player multiple times, a really good player multiple times over the course of his career. And that just, that makes me weirdly more comfortable I know typically you're kind of, you know, you're gun shy of injury, quote unquote injury prone players or guys that have had a lot of medical issues. But seeing is believing and I've, I've seen him be that sort of impactful player.
- [33:24]
Robert Mays
I'm really excited about this one. The signing you didn't know you needed until you saw it. I've got a couple here. Derek, what is yours? The signing you did not know you needed until you saw a come across your timeline.
- [33:33]
Derek
Mine is a two for one. I did not know I needed Quay Walker Nakobe Dean reunited.
- [33:38]
Robert Mays
That's a good one. That's a. That's actually.
- [33:41]
Derek
That is so sick because obviously in college, I mean that was, you know, I know Walker's been like a frustrating up and down NFL player, but in college you can't get a better linebacker duo than those two. And so to see them together again, like I'm just super excited for that. Like they are really, really good players at their best. And I know last year was weird for Koi Walker, but I think he started to come on at the end of 2024 when the defensive line in front of him looked better and then to Kobe Dean as he got healthier last year, like looked really, really good. So I'm. If they can play well together, I'm pretty excited about that.
- [34:11]
Robert Mays
Again, I thought had flashes last year though you can still tell especially early
- [34:16]
Derek
before the defensive line exploded in front of him.
- [34:18]
Robert Mays
I understand looking at that guy and being like he is such a I can fix him guy. No one has ever been in more I could. And it's not that he needs that much fixing. Right. He's a capable player.
- [34:30]
Derek
Right.
- [34:30]
Robert Mays
But the idea of I can get more out of him, I can make
- [34:34]
Derek
him a Pro Bowler. Yes, yes.
- [34:36]
Robert Mays
And they paid him an amount of money where I think it indicates they think they can get him there. Dave, what is the signing you did not know you needed until you saw
- [34:44]
Dave
I said Reed Blankenship already another one. Similarly and you might disagree because we talked about it at the time we knew they needed a CB2. We know that was an issue for them last year. But I just, I wouldn't have guessed Requill and would wind up in Philly. And when I that's a really good one. When I saw it I was like, hell yeah. Like if I didn't realize this was an option because I thought he was going to demand a much bigger, longer contract. And so to get him at that price and what they already have on defense, I was just like, you know, I, I thought. I thought we'd be making a run of the mill signing here. I thought James Pierre would be CB2 in Philly or something like that, and instead it's Reek Woolen.
- [35:19]
Robert Mays
Don't. I don't like that tone. No, I know.
- [35:21]
Dave
You're right. I love James Pierre. I love that signing for the Vikings. But I just, I thought it would be a much more under the radar sort of deal. And instead you get. I mean, Reeks probably in terms of, like, ability, not he didn't get the biggest deal, but, like, this is the most talented corner available in free agency this year. Or am I forgetting somebody?
- [35:39]
Derek
I mean, like Jamel Dean. I guess we're gonna talk about the
- [35:42]
Robert Mays
cornerback market here in a second.
- [35:44]
Dave
I, I would say Reek Woolen talent wise. And. And also I just. It fits Philly so well. Like, just an insane volatile market where they build a statue of you if you're good and immediately are angry at you if you're not good. And I think the roller coaster of Reek Willen just fits the. The vibe of Philadelphia so well.
- [36:05]
Robert Mays
The one thing I'll say about the Reek Wallen thing, and just because I think one of the categories we're going to hit is the guy who. It changed your opinion of his trajectory, where you saw him sign. No more Christian Parker in Philadelphia, I think is at least worth thinking about when it comes to the fact that every single db, young DB that has landed there, there's like essentially poured gasoline on it and their development has looked fantastic. Their cornerbacks coach, Roy Anderson, this is his third year there. He got there during the 24 off season, and so he has been the cornerbacks coach since. Got. Oh, my God, what's angio? Or who's the corner?
- [36:41]
Derek
Oh, Quinion.
- [36:41]
Robert Mays
Jesus Christ. Like, my God. We're just, we're. We're deep into day four here. Quinon, Mitchell, Cooper, DeJean. Yeah, so. But again, it's we. Christian Parker not being there anymore. Just one thing to mention. I still think that it's a really good spot and he's a great answer. Tariq Wynne is for this category. I have two. I can't believe you. Neither of you guys mentioned this one. Keaton Mitchell to the Chargers.
- [37:02]
Dave
I would.
- [37:02]
Derek
Yeah, that's.
- [37:03]
Robert Mays
That is the Chargers. I did not know I needed that and now I desperately need it.
- [37:07]
Dave
Similar to Salah's bit with his defensive line, when I saw that the Chargers landed him, I laughed out loud at my Phone. Cause of course Mike McDaniel wanted him.
- [37:16]
Derek
He's like, I need my fullback and I need my five, nine speed. Please.
- [37:20]
Robert Mays
I, I cannot wait for Keith Mitchell to have like 1, 300 yard, 3 touchdown game this season.
- [37:27]
Dave
Hopefully it doesn't come at the expense of your guy. Kamani Vidal, though, I mean.
- [37:30]
Robert Mays
Oh, that's okay.
- [37:31]
Derek
I'm.
- [37:31]
Robert Mays
I'm willing to sacrifice Mitchell into the Mike McDaniel offense. And the other one, we mentioned his name earlier and when I see where he signed and the position group he's joining and we can talk about the philosophy that kind of come along with this. David Edwards going to the Saints, that
- [37:47]
Derek
was my other one.
- [37:48]
Robert Mays
I did not know I needed that. And that's one of them where I really like when teams that have a building strength on one of their fronts, they're just like, we're just going to put this thing away and spending a premium to drop him into that group that already has a lot of young promising players. You know, if Eric McCoy can get healthy. That's one where I've, I've said that talked about in these terms before, but like, you drop it in and it all goes green. Like that's to me like what the David Edwards thing is for the Saints offensive line. And I just. Even if they had to pay a lot to get him, I really like that one and I think it's great
- [38:22]
Derek
too, because listen, they also signed Travis Etienne, who is not a perfect player, but if you set him behind an offensive line like this, that can move people. He's got gas when he gets to the open field. And if they can just create some more of those opportunities that way, because Kelvin Banks is moving people, David Edwards is moving people, Fuaga is moving people. Like, there's a chance that the offense can be. Can be kind of fun. I've still got my questions about the defense, but the offense. I'm really intrigued to see what this is going to look like.
- [38:47]
Dave
I really hope Eric McCoy stays healthy. Yeah, I need that desperately.
- [38:51]
Robert Mays
All right, let's get to the other side of things here. The move that happened that you still don't really understand, whether it's the amount paid to a player, whether it's the fit for the player in the team, what is the move is, even as you've thought about it more, Derek, you still really can't wrap your head around.
- [39:06]
Derek
I've got three, two of them we can go through quickly because we've already kind of talked about Isaac, say Alo, like choosing to play for the Cardinals I think is kind of.
- [39:13]
Robert Mays
That's fine.
- [39:14]
Dave
He gave, he gave an answer. Did you see? No, he's. It's a great quote.
- [39:18]
Robert Mays
They paid me $10 million.
- [39:20]
Dave
The quote started like, well, of course money's great. And then he was like, but I also, I wanted to be somewhere where we could build toward winning something with like people that believed in me. And I was like, okay. But the stint started with, that's just
- [39:33]
Robert Mays
another version of they paid me. The, the people who believed in me is truly just another. That's who paid me the most money. That's fine. From his perspective, I will never ever blame.
- [39:45]
Dave
I'll be honest with you. Money's good. But the biggest part is I want to win. And I want to win with a team that wants me here.
- [39:52]
Derek
Like, for someone his age, I do get that too. Like you're man on the wrong side of 30. You never know how many more times you're going to get.
- [39:58]
Dave
I'm not trying to hear anybody act like I feel like someone else could
- [40:01]
Derek
have got him $10 million.
- [40:02]
Robert Mays
I want to be very clear about that. This, this is not a Isaac Sello question. If he got paid the most money to go to the Cardinals. Go with God, my friend. Like, take the $10 million a year. I want what's good for you. Why the Cardinals, who are a rebuilding team that is going to play Jacoby Peret at quarterback this year, want to spend $10 million a year on a 32 year old guard? I just don't understand how that price aligns with what they are, what they want to accomplish this year and the timeline they're going to be on. I. Maybe there's something I'm not seeing that one. I just don't understand. Like that's the category. Yeah.
- [40:39]
Derek
The whole thing just didn't make any sense to me. I think one of my other ones too, like, it's not a signing. Washington cutting Tyler Bata still doesn't really make any sense to me. Like, I still think that that is bizarre. And so obviously that's not a signing. The signing that when I look at it, I understand. Like they need players at this position, but for the money. I just think it's kind of crazy with Given where he's at in his career, the bill signing Bradley chubb for like $14 million.
- [41:02]
Robert Mays
Word.
- [41:02]
Derek
I was like, I don't know.
- [41:04]
Robert Mays
We were about to get there. Don't you worry.
- [41:06]
Dave
That happened eight minutes after we got off the show yesterday.
- [41:09]
Derek
Yeah.
- [41:09]
Robert Mays
Good timing. So do you have your movie? You still don't understand.
- [41:13]
Dave
I have a few, actually. Let's talk about Chubb, though. We haven't talked about because it's the
- [41:17]
Robert Mays
next category that we're going to hit. So I don't want to. I don't want to get us too far ahead of ourselves here. What's the move you. You still don't understand as you've thought
- [41:22]
Dave
more about it, I actually completely understand it, and I completely understand the relationship in the building. We don't have to dogpile on Wanda Robinson, but that's just a lot of money for me. It's like Romeo Dobbs and Michael Pittman were both deals that got done that I would have been more in on at a similar level of guy where I was like, you know, if. If you go after Wanda Robinson because Romeo Dobbs is gonna flirt with like $22 million a year, I'm like, okay, I understand that. But if Romeo Dobbs is getting 17 million, and I know, you know, maybe playing with Drake May is part of that, and maybe the Patriots had an advantage in negotiations. But also, we know the Titans wanted Wondell Robinson. It was a poorly kept secret for like a month.
- [42:04]
Robert Mays
What I'll say if you're looking at the construction of those receiver rooms. Right. Romeo Dobbs is a skill set that the Patriots need in a way that Wendell Robinson isn't. Right. And if you look at the Titans, I think you can make an argument that what you saw from Iowa Manor. Yes. Last year is worth continuing down that path and letting him develop. And if you go get Romeo Dobbs, I think you're stepping on that. You're stepping on him, his development plan. Cherry DK is the guy that you're getting ahead of with a Wando Robinson signing. And I think you should be more okay with that. That than cutting off IO manners, potential ability to develop. That. That's where I would land with it. I want to be very clear about this. I'm not paying Wando Robinson that amount of money.
- [42:45]
Dave
It's a lot of money.
- [42:46]
Robert Mays
I just think that for the Titans specifically, I can understand seeking out that skill set when you have a needed receiver versus somebody like Romeo Dobbs because of the way the room is built.
- [42:56]
Dave
Zion Johnson's deal we already touched on is another one where, again, I get how it happens. It's not that I don't understand it.
- [43:02]
Robert Mays
So let's keep going because that we're touching on what I think the next category speaks to, which is the market for a that you don't understand. So this is purely based on Price. And so Zion Johnson, yours is based on Price.
- [43:14]
Dave
Almost all of these are based mainly on Price. The other one, I don't. It's something that happened last night. I'm just gonna put it off to the side because I assume we're not done. I'm curious to see where Dallas goes from trading Oso Degi Zua. And I get it. They had a, they had a glut of D tackles. You got a lot of money invested at a similar position group. But I feel like something corresponding feels like it's coming or at least I think it should be. Like, even if OSA doesn't fit what Christian Parker wants to do, you're still taking a good player off your defense and creating more need at a unit that desperately needs good players.
- [43:53]
Robert Mays
I love that move for Niners.
- [43:55]
Dave
Oh, I thought you meant for Dallas.
- [43:57]
Robert Mays
No, the 49ers.
- [43:59]
Derek
I think it's really, really good.
- [44:00]
Robert Mays
He's 28. He has a $16.8 million cap at this year year. He's at 20 million each of the next two years. I don't think any of that is guaranteed. And so you, you're taking on what is a three year, $57 million deal. So that's $19 million a year for a 28 year old player. You gave up a third round pick to do it in a year where the market for interior defensive linemen was absolute dog shit. There was nothing available. And so to get to come out of this free agency period with this player, even if it cost you a third round pick, it's just not something that I thought would be available to most teams because of what the pool of interior defensive linemen looked like as we headed into last week.
- [44:45]
Derek
I didn't either. I've spent some of this offseason trying to put another edge up there. But like them getting any juice up front is an obvious win because like, and the other thing too, it's not that there were not that many other like three tech guys to go and get. They drafted C.J. west last year in the fourth round, who I, I thought he struggled a lot of last year. Like he just gets moved off the ball a little bit too easily. And then Kevin Givens, who was like a dec player for them also 3 tech is not going to be, at least right now, is not on the team. He's a free agent. So they needed a body period. And for them to go out and address it in really the most aggressive way that you could. And they have the cap space to do it like this Made a lot of sense to me.
- [45:20]
Dave
I don't think it makes that much sense for the Cowboys and people.
- [45:24]
Derek
Jerry's just in there pressing buttons.
- [45:25]
Dave
Well, people are going to say like Chris, like if, if he's not a scheme fit. You see this stuff happen with regime changes all the time where if Christian Parker feels this way, at least you could get a top 100 pick for him. But again, this was, this is one of the most talent poor defenses in the NFL.
- [45:41]
Robert Mays
I also don't understand how he's not a scheme fit. We saw Milton Williams when the Eagles Super Bowl. I don't.
- [45:46]
Dave
That's the funny. The crazy thing to me is people are like, well they're, they're three, four now. He's not a scheme fit for they. What they want to do. I'm like, nobody plays that much in base anyway. Like what are we doing? You can find a role for a good football player. And considering they've done nothing at linebacker, the cornerback room is a mess they don't have. I mean their best edge rusher is a second year player who just had surgery as a raku. I just, like I said, I'm, I'm putting it on a shelf until I see what they do because maybe by the time it's all said and done, it'll look better. But right now I don't think it looks very good.
- [46:20]
Robert Mays
And I'll say this, I think that the Eagles, it was, it was fun. I was talking to a coach last offseason during the training camp about this where the Eagles had this kind of cool situation where it was a Fangio defense. But, but they're. Jeremiah Washburn, who is Jim Washburn's son is on the Eagle staff and obviously Jim Washburn is that like wide nine attack front. That's where it started like way back when. And then Jim Schwartz is a part of that tree and then Chris Kurek and that's all connected. And the Eagles kind of had this world where they were trying to do some of the attack front stuff in a Fangio defense. And so that's where you can have those like one gap penetrators be really productive. And there's a chance that the Cowboys are going to play in a more traditional kind of Fangio way up front. And maybe it's not as much of a fit as a Milton Williams might have been for the 2024 Eagles, but I don't know the answer to that, I guess is what I would say.
- [47:11]
Dave
I don't either. I just right now for where the Cowboys are. And again, this is a team with a quarterback who's turning 33. I would think you want to maximize that. I'm not trying to ship good players off of my defense, even if they do get a top 100 pick in return. But by May, maybe I'll feel differently. But I just, I saw that last night. I was like, yes, I love this for San Francisco. I don't understand the vision for Dallas, but we'll see.
- [47:40]
Robert Mays
So my markets I did not understand. I have two of them. Bradley Shepp was the first one. It just, I don't think when I saw wasn't that I got to the end of thinking about it and was like, oh man, that's a terrible contract. It was mostly just it's surprising that he got that amount of money and like guarantees into the second year. I just, I just didn't necessarily expect that given his injury history. But he was healthy last year. He was a productive player last year. It's what, $14 million a year. So I don't think it's crazy. I was just surprised that the market was that healthy for him given his history and age.
- [48:15]
Derek
So was I. Which I guess given it's Buffalo, they're kind of like desperate to really try to like get things going right now. Some major part of connection.
- [48:22]
Robert Mays
Like right, so he's coming from Denver. He was in Denver. Like it's somebody that is familiar with the way they want to play and so there's some connections there to be made. I was just surprised that it was that much and that again, the con, the, the. I thought he'd be like a one year, 17 million kind of guy rather than a multiple year deal with guarantees into the second, second year.
- [48:42]
Dave
I wasn't surprised when I saw the team because this is Buffalo's favorite thing in the world.
- [48:47]
Robert Mays
$30 million guaranteed.
- [48:48]
Derek
It's a, it was a lot of money.
- [48:50]
Robert Mays
The numbers were guaranteed 29 million guarantee for Bradley Chubb, half heading into his age 30 season. That, that is surprising.
- [48:56]
Dave
If Buffalo doesn't have an old expensive edge rusher joining them to try to get them over the top. What are they even going to do with social.
- [49:02]
Robert Mays
They have, they have to do it the other one. And again, I don't. It's not that I necessarily hate it. I was just surprised that he got this amount of money and I was talking to a coach that they were in the nickel market as well and he was like, I can't believe D. Alford got the amount of money that he got from the Bills. And D. Alford played well last year, but it was again just one of the those markets where it was like, man, I'm just surprised D. Alford got that kind of contract on the, on the market.
- [49:27]
Derek
Which that to me too. And I said this a little bit about Alante Taylor. If you really needed a nickel, how many options did you really have this off? Like there just were not that many of them. So I do wonder if a team was like, listen, we know he can at least give us passable play. And the Bills were a little bit desperate to at least get passable and hope that maybe he has a little more in their defense.
- [49:45]
Robert Mays
Okay, so the next category we wanted to talk about was positional market. That were a little bit surprising to you? And my answer to that is the top of the cornerback market was richer than I expected it to be. ALANTE TAYLOR Getting $19 million a year from the Titans, that is not something I had on my bingo card heading into free agency and you could even extend that. Cordell flock getting $15 million a year is not something that I expected. The Titans overall being that aggressive, signing corner corners is not something I necessarily expected. So that entire situation in Tennessee was just not something I saw happening and unfolding. Whether that's the players getting the amount of money that they did or the Titans being the team to shell it out. And even Jalen Watson getting $17 million a year for the Rams, I just thought those numbers would come in a little bit cheaper than that. And they did not. So though like a lot to Taylor getting 19, Jalen Watson getting 17 and Cordell Flock getting 15, that is not something I expected.
- [50:47]
Dave
Snead's still on their roster, right?
- [50:49]
Robert Mays
Ye. He's. That's. That's okay.
- [50:50]
Dave
I figured as much. But they've just, they've spent a lot of money at the position.
- [50:55]
Robert Mays
Any markets positionally that you were surprised by how they unfolded?
- [50:58]
Derek
I just some of the linebacker contracts were like a little more up and down than I thought. Like Walker and Dean being so close. Just I think based on some of their potential and injury history was a little bit interesting to me. And then again, I know Devin Lloyd is a little bit older than maybe we realized for a second contract player, but I did think given that he was maybe the most high potential player on the market of the position, I kind of thought that he would get a little bit more. Especially with some of the other players that we've seen get in that $15 million range already. I kind of thought maybe he would creep up closer to 17, 18. So I think just some of those numbers came in a little bit lower than I expected. And then Dean came in like slightly higher than I expected.
- [51:34]
Robert Mays
When I look at the Titans signing those guys, the. When you look back at like Robert Sala defenses, when Trevarius Ward signed with a bro with the Charger, with the Niner, was Solid a defensive coordinator there or was that after Solid already left? That was after Solid already left for the Jets. So I don't know, man. I just, I just did not expect them to sign like, go that hard at corners specifically. And I just, I don't know if those guys are worth those price tags.
- [52:01]
Dave
That's. I mean, I, I admire what they did with their line, but that's what
- [52:05]
Robert Mays
I would expect, right like that that's where I would expect them to shell out money is up front and they did that. But to pair that with spending as much money as they did in the secondary on the heels of the sneak thing, which just did not work out. And I know this is a. It's a different front office, all of that, but I don't know that. That one was just surprising to me.
- [52:22]
Dave
It's. I, I'm trying to, trying to gauge. I think I made a joke about this before free agency is like when you see the Titans do something, I just associate it with so many bad moves. Like, I think that colors my perception a little bit. But Wondale and these corners, I'm just like, ah, this reminds me of, of Titans disaster deals from years past. That doesn't, that doesn't mean they're guaranteed to not live up to those expectations. But I do, I do think that colors my perception a little bit. Even though it's a completely different front offices doing it.
- [52:55]
Robert Mays
The other market positionally is a very specific market. The fourth contract defensive tackle market.
- [53:03]
Derek
Oh my God.
- [53:04]
Robert Mays
Was richer over the last day than I thought it would be. Like, the idea that Javon Hargrave and Jonathan Allen got cut and then Hargrave gets $12 million a year and I believe only one year of that is. I think it's like 11 million a year for Hargrave. I essentially only one year that is guaranteed, that's fine. But to see Jonathan Allen get $13 million a year on that deal from the Bengals, again, I don't even necessarily dislike that. I was just surprised after the way the last year went for those guys to be scooped up this quickly and at those prices.
- [53:34]
Dave
I'm. I was joking about Derek with this before we started recording. Like, I'm just Kind of surprised that they signed those deals in Minnesota. I, I don't think they were awful. Like, I go back and watch the Vikings, like there, there were moments there and you saw flashes. But just the well rounded dominant players you might have remembered for them to play that way on big deals get cut. And yeah, it's one thing if somebody wants to give them some money, but immediately snatched up and given a fair amount of guarantees is what surprised me. And maybe like Green Bay makes a little more sense to me because the, what's it called?
- [54:07]
Robert Mays
You have the Gannon connection there.
- [54:10]
Dave
The Gannon connection. You need bodies. Micah potentially could not be there for the start of the season. Like even, like that's what, you know, when the deal came down, people were like, well, he doesn't defend the run. And I was like, if Micah needs some time to get back on the field, you need somebody that can rush the passer from somewhere. So it makes a little more sense. But I was, I was surprised at how quickly those guys got resigned and how, how big the deals were.
- [54:34]
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- [56:36]
Derek
is what Jalen Watson to the Rams was one that, like, I, I, I think he obviously played pretty well for stretches in Kansas City. I just wondered a guy like him. I was like, there are certain players, when they place well in a certain defense, I'm like, what does it look like elsewhere? And I think sometimes for corners and spag system, unless you were like, clearly above that, like Trent McDuffie at his best is clearly above that. But Jalen Watson, I had some questions. The fact that now he is paired with Trent McDuffie again is nice, but then I think they're in some of the ways that they call the defense, there is some overlap in what Shula does to a lot of what the Spagnola stuff does. So now pairing that with how insane insane the front is, I'm like, okay, there's actually a chance that we do see some of the best of Jalen Watson, whereas I think if he had landed in some other spots, I would have been like, I, I'm not entirely sure how much I love that deal.
- [57:23]
Robert Mays
I think that's a good one.
- [57:25]
Dave
So this is the opposite of what I was talking about with, like, Jalen Phillips. My number one thing I'm scared of and what I'm trying to avoid is giving a guy a shitload of money in the hopes that he can ascend into a different tier player. So for starters, Quitty Pay didn't break the bank in a way that I was guessing he might like. I what it was like three years, $48 million, perfectly reasonable amount of money for a guy anyway, to the point where I'm like, okay, this is fine. Then Max Crosby lands back in Vegas. Obviously, we don't know if it's going to stay that way, but he put up his Undertaker video last night and it certainly, you know, he's, he's making it sound like he's happy staying in Vegas if you get Quiddy Pay for that deal. And now he's unquestionably your number two and you have Max Crosby back on your line as your force multiplier. I like that a lot. Where I'm like, oh, quiddy pay could do some damage there. If that is the hierarchy of things. And on top of that, it's not costing you as much money as I might have guessed. I went from, I went into the week like, ooh, I'm, I'm terrified of who's going to be asking Quitty Pay to become their best pass rusher. And now I'm like, oh, this is fantastic. This is an amazing landing spot for
- [58:35]
Robert Mays
quiddy pay, catch, counterpoint. I'm still not sure Quitty Pay is your second best pass rusher.
- [58:41]
Dave
Who am I behind?
- [58:42]
Derek
Looks healthier.
- [58:43]
Robert Mays
I'm just saying, like, I'm not sure that's the place you want to be. I, I am too close to the Diodango situation from last year.
- [58:52]
Derek
I'm too same, I'm too close to it.
- [58:55]
Dave
If he is a reliable like 6 to 8 sack guy at $16 million a year, I don't think you're going to regret at that, which is kind of what we said about, I mean fair.
- [59:07]
Robert Mays
He had four sacks last year. He had eight the year before and
- [59:09]
Derek
eight and a half the year before. He's, he's had, he's solid.
- [59:11]
Dave
He's, he's, he's solid. He's probably like considering he's a first round pick, not what you're hoping for, but like he's, he's been perfectly fine.
- [59:19]
Robert Mays
I have one on each side of this where a guy whose trajectory I'm more excited about in a positive way. And the second one is there's some nuance to it which we can about talk about Logan hall going to the Texans for $6 million a year. The Texans are one of those teams where when they sign a defensive lineman, I pay attention. It's like, all right, okay, why? And like what is that guy going to look like?
- [59:40]
Dave
And so, so they're the new Niners, which is not surprising.
- [59:44]
Robert Mays
Yeah, they're very much in that. So like the, this is perfect to me. Okay, so last year, I mean, let me look at this because now I'm curious about the actual numbers on it and we can, we can, we can, we can dig through this. Okay. So in 2024, Tim Settle signs a two year, $6 million contract with the Texans this week at age 29. So two years later, he goes from making $3 million a year with the Texans to making $8 million a year with the Commanders. Instead of re signing 29 year old Tim Suttle, the Texans decide that they are going to sign Logan hall, who is 25 years old, to a contract that's $2 million a year or less. And so now I'm excited for Logan Hall's contract to be up with the Texans in two years and for him to make $9 million for whoever signs him next. This happens consistently like it's consistently happening with the Texans. Tommy Togi has played well for them. Rankins had that bounce back season and so watching Logan hall and a guy that is young is going to be switching schemes. Like, it's just. There is a lot there where I'm like, I would not be the least bit surprised if we're looking there in week eight. And it's like, man, Logan Hall's really outplayed that contract he got from the Texans.
- [61:01]
Dave
Pick 33 too, by the way. Which, yeah, like so not. You're not even dealing with the tax of signing a high draft pick that you usually see.
- [61:09]
Robert Mays
Yeah, that's. That's one where I'm like, oh man, okay, I'm paying attention to that. The other one. And again, I think he'll be fine. It's mostly that I just wanted to see him on a good team because I thought that he would be a nice addition to an overall defensive line room. Watching Kingsley Anig Barre go to the jets was like it's just a little bit disappointing for me and I that's fine. It's a good. The jets are a rebuilding team. He's a youngish player. You know, I think the price tag was fine. I just more wanted to be watching Kingsley Anik Barre in a meaningful Week 12 game this year as part of like a really good defense. And that's probably not going to happen.
- [61:44]
Derek
Yeah, I did too. At least it is only a one year deal. So maybe he's just doing this so like I can flash here and then I can go somewhere else again.
- [61:50]
Robert Mays
He made 10 million bucks. It was a healthy deal. He signed very early in free agency. I just thought he. I wanted to see him as part of a contending team.
- [61:57]
Derek
Totally.
- [61:58]
Dave
It's how I felt about Demario, which they're teammates now.
- [62:01]
Robert Mays
All right, let's finish this up. We have a couple more, but we're running a little bit long here. Let's finish this up with the guys who have not signed. So the guys who have not signed quite yet that you are most interested in what their landing spot is going to look like. Derek, why don't you kick us off?
- [62:17]
Derek
So one of my categories actually was the old man guards, which we've already talked about a little bit. My other one is a boring player who I think would actually be really good if you're one of these contending like 4, 3 style of teams. AJ Epanessa I think like if you need a third defensive end who is long defends the run, pushes the pocket a little bit, I'm thinking teams like the Lions if the Niners can now I know their cap situation is a little bit different now with the Odiggy Zuo contract but like he would be a good third guy for them. The Seahawks have enough money that if they want to replace the edge room a little bit that like he could make some sense for them. So just a guy who is going to give you really good early down snaps every now and then push the pocket for you. I just think that he's like a solid player for a contending team.
- [62:56]
Robert Mays
Let's I'll give you like the puzzle piece version of that. A guy who was just on the Lions is not an early down snap guy, but I do think is going to give you production right now. Al Kadeen Muhammad has been good for the Lions over the last couple years as a rotational pass rusher. Tom Pelissero reported earlier today that he's visiting the Bucks. That's one where I'm curious where he lands because again he's, his career is fascinating, right? Like he's bounced around. He signed I think mid season with the Lions or at least got onto the field late in the season with the Lions two years ago. And you're watching him late in the season for the Lions when that entire defense is injured two years ago, it's like holy shit, he looks incredible. And he played really well again last year. And so I think he wasn't at
- [63:38]
Dave
the Ravens game early in the year before. We knew the Ravens were struggling where he just like he like wrecked shop that game, didn't he?
- [63:45]
Robert Mays
This is his age 31 season, right? And so he's played for 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 teams and I just think he's played, he played so much better for the Lions than I ever would have anticipated. And so just as a rotational pass rusher, I am curious where he lands and for the Bucks specifically, I think this is a way to get some pass rush juice in the building for what is probably not going to cost a lot of money.
- [64:09]
Derek
That is a really good solution in terms of like purely just getting a third down guy. That's probably the best that they're going to do left in this market.
- [64:15]
Robert Mays
So that's, that's one of the ones that I had the two others. I mean this One's I obvious like when does Kyler sign with the Vikings?
- [64:21]
Derek
I was going to say it's not interesting because it will be with the Vikings. Yeah.
- [64:25]
Robert Mays
And then mine before he signed today was Jonathan Allen. I was curious where Jonathan Allen would be. So now obviously we have an answer to that. And then the last one in terms of like bigger money guys that have not signed yet and most of the players at his position and his tier have already found a team. Is what happens with Jaquan Brisker.
- [64:42]
Derek
Yeah.
- [64:42]
Robert Mays
Where. Where Jaquan Brisker goes.
- [64:44]
Dave
I think it's mainly right now health related. Why he would still be maybe there.
- [64:47]
Robert Mays
Yeah, maybe. Yeah. Obviously the concussions and the history with that is keep in mind. But he's one of the guys where that's one of the last kind of remaining dominoes.
- [64:57]
Dave
I maybe this is just my bias cause I love him. I'm a little bit surprised Juwan Jennings is still out there. Who else? I the guards are a good one. I get again I know people dog on him and he's a frustrating player. I would have thought somebody would prioritize Juwan Taylor a little bit more just because a starting right tackle is not easy to come by and then just because of his explosive ability, what he can give you as like a, as a threat. I would have guessed David and Joku would have had suitors by now.
- [65:30]
Derek
I so that's a great one. I I really do think that he's like a nice answer for somebody but
- [65:35]
Dave
like it's David and Joku at the point in his career where, you know, teams are like, hey, we're going to see what happens in the draft because there's a ton of tight ends and then we'd be happy to give you $8 million in June and he might have his pick of like two or three really good teams that just don't want to do it right now.
- [65:52]
Derek
That's a really good point. Which again, there might be some team. Yeah. Post drafts are like, oh, they miss out and they signed David and Joku. I'm like I'm a little bit more interested in their offense.
- [65:59]
Dave
This is definitely a year to wait and see how the draft shakes out if you want a tight end. And I mean now that I've said this, David Njoku is going to sign on Friday night. But it wouldn't be surprising if that's how teams were looking at this.
- [66:12]
Robert Mays
It's interesting you look at it right now, right now and I don't think there's like a really clear cut answer to who needs a right tackle like Joanne Taylor?
- [66:22]
Dave
Maybe that's the issue.
- [66:23]
Robert Mays
I'm looking at like the entire league depth chart wise at right tackle. Like, we'll see what happens with the Browns. Like, does Titus Howard play guard? Because if he's going to play guard, then I think they're a team that would need a starting right tackle. So I throw at that. Them out there, they've been willing to throw money at anybody who can start for them. That's a team I would mention. Mention kind of running through these like the Raiders. Right. Like DJ Glaze is there now. Like, we'll see what they want to do with him. Is that something where they'd rather draft somebody rather than spend a decent amount of money on an aging guy like Juwan Taylor?
- [66:53]
Dave
Reckless. Can I?
- [66:56]
Robert Mays
Of course. Always.
- [66:57]
Dave
If you're willing to ask Panay Sewell to move to left tackle. Detroit.
- [67:02]
Robert Mays
Well, so they signed Larry Boreham in free agency.
- [67:04]
Dave
Oh, they did do that.
- [67:05]
Robert Mays
And I wonder what that means. I wonder if that is.
- [67:08]
Dave
That's not a deal that guarantees him playing.
- [67:10]
Robert Mays
Oh, God, he was for 5 million bucks. I mean, absolutely not. I mean, there, there's 100% a chance that that's just a depth piece for them, but they at least did something to address their tackle depth with Taylor. Decker moving on. All right, we've got one bit of breaking news here before we get out of here. Oh, this is a fun one.
- [67:31]
Derek
Oh, is it?
- [67:32]
Robert Mays
What do we got? Dre Greenlaw back to the Niners.
- [67:34]
Derek
Oh, that's incredible. I love that.
- [67:37]
Dave
I'm shocked.
- [67:38]
Robert Mays
Dre Greenlaw back to the Niners about a day after he had been. He was caught by the Broncos one year seven and A in Pere Rap Port. I assume there's some up to involved at that considering he was just cut.
- [67:49]
Derek
But sorry, what was the number one
- [67:52]
Robert Mays
year seven and a half million rap port.
- [67:54]
Derek
Okay. I mean, I still like this. If he, he, he still looked solid when he got on the field last year. It's just he missed a lot of time again. And so obviously that's a huge consideration for them. But if they, if the Niners can get back to a point where their three linebackers are very good again. And I know Dee Winters was a. An exciting player last year. I still think the best of Dre Greenlaw, if he's healthy, is a better player right now. But if those are your three guys, that is a really, really good spot to be in. When going into last year, we weren't sure if they had a good second linebacker, let alone now having potentially three again.
- [68:25]
Robert Mays
All right, that is all we've got for today. As we said earlier this week, we will not have a live show coming your guys way tomorrow, but we will have a podcast coming every single day next week. So there will be a new show in your feed on Monday. Building the Beast will be back next Wednesday. So we'll be chatting a little bit about how free agency has affected this year's draft and then we will have another week's worth of free agency coverage next week. Last year we did a set of shows about how much better these teams are really after all these signings have come down. We'll do versions of that show next week we'll talk about some of the remaining questions that we still have after free agency and then when we get to the end of next week, March 20th. That should be our last purely free agency podcast starting March 23rd a week from Monday. It is all draft all the time here on the Athletic Football show for about a month before we get to the actual draft, we will talk more about what our live production for the draft is going to look like this year. We're blowing it out again. Very much looking forward to to that, but a lot of time between now and then and plenty more free agency discussions to be had. For now, that's all we got. Appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you very soon.
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