← The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL
The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL
How much better—or worse—is each NFC team after the first wave of free agency?
01:18:52
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- [00:00]
Dave
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- [02:07]
Robert Mays
Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mays, rolling on with our how much better are these Teams Really? Series we hit the AFC yesterday with me and Derek looking at the halls for all 16 AFC teams and asking as the dust has started to settle a little bit from free agency, how much better are these teams really? David back with us today to hit all 16 teams in the NFC. Some of them spent very little time on the Rams are better. Just if you're curious, like the Rams are better after trading for Trent McDuffie with some teams, the answer is a little bit murkier. So we spent more time unpacking it. Really enjoyed this conversation. So let's chat about how much better the NFC teams are after the first wave of free agency with me, Derek and Dave. Did the AFC yesterday. Today it is time for the nfc. We are running through every team in the NFL and asking a seemingly simple but I think sometimes hard to answer question. How much better are they really after the first wave of free agency is over? Dave, you were not with with us for the AFC yesterday. You get to join us for the nfc. I'm curious how many you have today that Derek had yesterday where it's kind of like I don't know, I don't know. I'm neutral. I don't know. There's. There was a lot of that yesterday which I think is totally fine. As part of this exercise.
- [03:34]
Dave
I knew we were doing this, but like you said, I wasn't on yesterday's show. But I listened to y' all this morning and the whole time I was like, oh, I. I kind of hate this. Like, it sounded really fun in theory, and then when you start applying it, it gets really stressful. And that's so. And then I spent most of my day leading up to this prepping for the N. And I hated every minute of it, particularly. I'm going to save it. But there were, there were a handful of teams that, that really, really stressed me out trying to answer this question.
- [04:06]
Robert Mays
The fact that it's hard is why it's worth doing right. Taking a step back and trying to figure out after all the dust settles where these teams are so excited to dig into the NFC teams today. I ordered them in the same way that I did yesterday was most spending to least spending. So let's start with the NFC team that has shelled out the most money in guaranteed contracts up to this point. Derek, and that is the Washington commanders, who came into this thing with a ton of cap space and have signed a bunch of guys. As we sit here on St. Patrick's Day, how much better or worse are the Washington Commanders now than they were about 10 days ago?
- [04:41]
Derek
They're one where, like, the roster, especially defensively, is clearly better. But I'm still sitting here looking at the offensive depth chart and it's still really terrifying me. And so, like, they are a better team, but given that, in my mind, this is a team that should be weaponizing their young quarterback. Like, the roster just feels weird to me still, even if they clearly did add more useful players in this off
- [05:04]
Robert Mays
season, what is okay, I think that's a fair representation. They have not done much on offense. I mean, the biggest thing that happened for them on offense so far is either signing Chico conquo or letting Tyler Biotish go right. Like Biatch signed for $10 million a year with the Chargers, Chico Conqua signs for $10 million a year to play tight end. So you're talking about similar levels of players. Those are the two most consequential moves that have happened for their offense. Is there something you wish they would have done with the offensive depth chart and the money they had available that they have not done up to this point?
- [05:33]
Derek
I mean, they were clearly in on a number of the wide receivers, which they should have been when you look at their how bad their off their offensive depth chart is. And like, that is still something that they could address in the Draft, but I still going in, having to go into April 23rd or whenever the first day of the draft is going to be. With 30 something year old Terry McLaurin trailing Burks and Luke McCaffrey as your top three wide receivers, that's just a really scary place to be. And I think think they were trying to get out of, you know, March without that being the case and they, they clearly just didn't.
- [06:05]
Robert Mays
You guys continue to ignore the Brandon nyuk move that is coming because you just don't trust that it's anything, it's anything real.
- [06:11]
Dave
Sure, I mean I use this analogy a lot, but buying a scratch off ticket's a lot of fun. Like counting on it to pay your mortgage is not as fun. You know, like that's just supposed to be for shits and giggles, not actually fixing your situation.
- [06:27]
Robert Mays
How do you feel about where Washington is right now, Dave? How much better is Washington right now than they were 10 days ago?
- [06:32]
Dave
I mean call it a cop out if you want to, but Washington's one of a handful of teams. The more money you spend, the more I'm just like, well you frickin better be better. Yeah, what, what are we doing if you're not better after spending $200 million in free agency? I share all of Derek's concerns about the offensive side of the ball. And I don't know how well it bodes for the commanders that like you said, Robert, the, the most notable thing they did on that side of the ball was probably cut a guy that other teams were in a rush to talk to. Like you don't ever want people to line up for the guy that you just fired. But there are two sides of the ball and I feel so much better about Washington's defense coming out of this. And I mean even, even if you're not sold on individual moves, obviously Oda Fayo got a ginormous contract, right. Tim Settle got a pretty big contract for where he is in his career. You don't have to love every single single thing they did, but they did enough that I just, I don't think they could help but be better. I think between the three or four guys that they threw at the pass rush away Caleb on, Chase on even Charles Amin who like they are going to have a better pressure rate than 32% assuming moderately good health in 2026, they got younger at linebacker Leo Chanel, great signing. My guy Nick Cross, not only a great signing, but for $7 million a year I just feel so much better about the defensive side of the ball than I did 10 days ago or at any point during the 2025 season, to be honest with you. And they're younger, by the way. I think like a Minahu and a couple of these guys are, are like 28, 29. But the vast majority of these signings are guys that are like 26, 27 years old. Like even guys that have been in our consciousness for a long time. Caleb on chase on is 26, even though we've known who he is forever, I'm telling you, he's. He might be, it might be his year 27 play.
- [08:33]
Derek
It's like we all know them forever.
- [08:35]
Dave
It might be his year 27 season. But like he, he is not an old player. Amik Robertson is only like 27 years old. So not only did they add talent, but my big beef with the Commanders last year was that it felt like a retirement home on their roster. And I don't think you can argue that they are much younger, much more athletic. Like there's more juice on this team with the guys that they've brought in. And now I think with what they've done with the pass rush and, and bringing in Cross and Robertson, I don't think you're so screwed defensively that you have to use that number seven overall draft pick on any one thing in particular. So if you love a receiver there, you can do that. If you're the Jeremiah Love team, I think people would probably hate you for it, but it could be a hell of a lot of fun to put him on that roster with Jaden Daniels or you can obviously continue to address the defense. So they are definitely a better team. How much better? Open for interpretation, but I, I like most of what they did. The OA contract kind of scares me, but I like most of what they did.
- [09:37]
Robert Mays
I think your guys circling this idea is they're a better team. I wish they would have done a little bit more to find one of those receivers. Maybe pay if can. Are you the team that pays a little bit more for Romeo Dobbs than you should have? Let's just say that. Derek, let's play out that hypothetical. Let's say Romeo Dobbs is on this team for $19 million a year. How much better do you feel about Washington and do you feel like that would have been worth doing given the amount of money that they have and given the current state of the roster,
- [10:03]
Derek
I would have been happier with that. Again, when you have a young quarterback like a Jaden Daniels, I'm willing to pay premiums for offensive Guys around him, especially, again, like, as your best. Your. Your only definitively good receiver is Terry McLaurin, who is coming off of, like, what was a kind of a shaky year for him last year, and then is only getting older. And so for them to pay to be younger and have, like, an obviously useful receiver, I would have been pretty into that, even though the price tag probably would have been expensive, but I wouldn't have minded it.
- [10:28]
Dave
I got a question for y'.
- [10:29]
Derek
All.
- [10:29]
Dave
And here. Here's the way that I kind of look at it is, like, you got to address. You gotta. You have to use the draft to address some things. Like, you're not going to do it all in free agency. And I know y' all haven't watched everybody in the NFL draft class. I get that. If you just look at it as resource allocation, like, would you have rather gone in on Romeo Dobbs and now you've probably got to find that edge rusher with your number 7 overall pick, or would you have rather sign Oda Fa away to a huge contract and now you have that freedom to, let's say, get Carnell Tate if he's there at number seven overall? Like, which of those feels like the better use of your resources? And I do. Like, I think I'd rather have the edge rusher, to be honest with you.
- [11:15]
Derek
I. But in free agency or the draft,
- [11:18]
Dave
no, I. I'd rather have the edge rusher already taken care of, especially since they threw multiple darts at it. I think I'd rather have the edge rusher taken care of and say, hey, all we got to draft is a. Is a two that can play behind scary Terry and we'll be okay. I think that is probably a more manageable ask.
- [11:38]
Derek
That's more manageable. I think if I'm spending a top 10 pick, I want him to be my ace at that position group, which I know that, like, that is not really how teams are building. Wide receiver like, Devonta Smith went high. Jalen Waddle went high.
- [11:48]
Dave
But, like, it's also not this draft.
- [11:51]
Derek
That's. That's also a good point.
- [11:53]
Robert Mays
I think it's kind of potato, potato for me. I'm not sure I have, like, a preferred destination, because I think that when I look at Away and I look at Dobbs, they're kind of similar in that they're good players, but they're number twos and they're limited players and you're paying them, I think, kind of at similar spots in the market. Right. And so I don't know if I have a preferred path that I would have taken. I think that it's kind of a coin flip for me. I think they're very similar discussions. No matter how you want to handle it, I think the answer would be which players are better prospects in the draft. And I just don't have an answer for that right now. Let's get to our next one here. The Carolina Panthers, who also spent a shitload of money over the last week or so. Dave, how much better are the Carolina Panthers now than they were 10 days ago?
- [12:37]
Dave
So the answer that I came down on is the Carolina Panthers still have the look to me of a 500ish football team, but it just might be more enjoyable the way that they get there. With like, with what you've added with Adam, you know, with getting a guy like Jalen Phillips putting Devin Lloyd behind him, you could potentially have the makings of an exciting Carolina defense. Like maybe not a top tier one just yet, but, but with what they did last year with the guys they just added, I mean, what two of the, if not two of the top five defenders on the market this year? Definitely two of the top 10 in, in the same free agent class joining right away, I think could just make the Panthers a more well rounded team, unfortunately. And I, I really, I hate the way that most Panthers talk turns into the Bryce Young discussion because it's not all about the quarterback. But it does get hard for me to assign a higher ceiling to the Panthers with the, with the current situation. Like I don't think of Carolina as being that much better of a team until we can either drastically improve the skill, talent and just the overall talent around Bryce Young or until Bryce Young shows us a more consistent level than what we've seen to this point in his career. I do. I commend Carolina for solving their offensive line problems on a budget. Like we've talked about the Luke Fortner edition many times already. I really liked that. I really loved, you know, for the Price getting Rasheed Walker there as icky equanu insurance, I thought was a good move. So just to have options to help you sort out your offensive line after an untimely injury and then obviously losing Cade Mays. I liked what they did. I think they're basically the same caliber of team, albeit maybe a little more well rounded.
- [14:31]
Derek
So I think I agree with that in the sense of like the ceiling of the team only goes so far as the quarterback does.
- [14:36]
Robert Mays
That's not the conversation, but that's, that's
- [14:37]
Derek
what I was going to say. Like What I will say is that if we're doing. Devin Lloyd is replacing Christian Roseboom and Jalen Phillips is replacing all the snaps that DJ Wonham gave us last year, those are two pretty sizables.
- [14:49]
Robert Mays
They're better.
- [14:50]
Derek
They are significantly better. And they didn't really lose anybody. Obviously they lose Cade Mays, but they replace him with a like, like to like sort of player and a guy like Luke Fortner in terms of quality. Like I, this is a team that like, again, I don't know what the ceiling is going to be, but this was one of the like three teams in the NSC where I looked at them and I was like unquestionably, undeniably better football team.
- [15:10]
Robert Mays
Yeah, I land in the exact same spot. The defense they needed to get so much better at linebacker. Even if you had last year some lingering concerns about Devin Lloyd's ceiling and was this a one year blip, Whatever. This is a much better football team and they paid for it, right? They paid a premium to get there. But if you look at the defensive roster now, I think that the defense, to say they were close is probably overstating it, but they were on a good trajectory. When you think about where they were two years ago and what they looked like last year, you saw the vision starting to come together with some of the guys that they added and now to add two guys on second contract, two second contract free agents at their two biggest positions of need. I think the defense has a real chance to feel like, if not a top tier unit, the one that like creeps closer toward the top 10 this year. Like I, I am excited to watch the defense in a way that I wasn't even last year. And on offense, I, I totally agree with everything you said, Dave, about how the ceiling is going to be determined by what happens with Bryce Young. But when you think about what the offensive roster looked like a week ago and what it looks like now, I would have said they were better even before the Rasheed Walker thing happens. I'm sure they were sitting there being like, wait a second, this guy's worth 10 million bucks. It would cost us 10 million bucks to solve left tackle for this year and have a stopgap option after Dan Moore was signing for $20 million a year last year. Let's just do this. Like we have to move some money around to give ourselves an answer for a season. Let's just do it. And so I can completely get on board with that. Combined with what they did on defense, my answer is definitively yes. Whether this Means they're like an 11 win team. I have no idea. But I think they're definitively a better team than they were last year.
- [16:50]
Dave
So I think that's right. And I guess the way that I'm looking at it, like I have the Panthers 2025 season pulled up in front of me, they go 8 and 9, they win the division. And I think the difference for me is like, I absolutely think the Panthers could finish with a better record. I think they're more or less the same caliber of team. Only maybe this Panthers team doesn't get absolutely dog walked two or three times this season the way that Buffalo managed to do to them or New England or that ridiculous San Francisco game that they played. Like there were three or four where, and I remember joking about it last year, where every time you want to get excited about the Panthers, they just play one of these egregiously awful games. Or conversely, one week after they beat the shit out of the Falcons, they go get wiped off the field by New England. And so maybe you get to a point this year where this team is, like I said, I still think of them as 500 adjacent, but not all 500 teams are created equal. Like maybe you're more competitive in a handful of those games because of these additions that you've made.
- [17:59]
Robert Mays
I also think their offense just has a chance to be better because they're healthier this year. Robert Hunt played three games for them last year, so if you're going to get a fuller season out of him. Jalen Coker missed a handful of games you really felt when he wasn't in the lineup last year. So I just feel like overall, I think the offense has a chance to just be a more stable group than it was a season ago, even if the ceiling still has concerns. And you combine that with a defense that I think just looks a lot more complete than it's been. I the ceiling Questions about this team overall are totally founded. I just think that right now they're a better team than they were and they're especially a better team than they were 10 days ago when they had to figure out left tackle in a way that we never would have had to predict for 95% of last season. Let's stick in the NFC South. The the New Orleans Saints. Derek, how much better are the New Orleans Saints now than they were a week ago?
- [18:51]
Derek
I think. I think I'm comfortable saying they're a little bit better, but not a lot. Like, I love the David Edwards thing and I think if there's Anything here, like, the David Edwards signing has potential to be like an exodia type thing for them, where all five of the parts of the monster come together and the offensive line is like, maybe one of the best in the league. Like, that could totally happen. And maybe that makes the signing look even better than it already looks on paper. The thing is, like, I do worry about the defense a little bit. Like, it was a quietly good unit last year, but I do think losing to Mario Davis is going. You lose Alante Taylor, which is starting caliber corner, that hurts you. And they did sign Kaden Ellis, who I think is nice, but I think not quite as good and not quite as useful of a player like Davis, even in his age. So I think they come out a little bit better, but not like, significantly,
- [19:38]
Dave
in my opinion, is exodia. Yu Gi. Oh, reference.
- [19:42]
Derek
Correct.
- [19:43]
Dave
Okay. I just. I had to Google that. I feel so. I feel so old right now, but I got the gist of what you were saying. I like that we're bridging the generational divide here.
- [19:53]
Robert Mays
I understood it based on context, but I have absolutely no idea what's going on.
- [19:57]
Derek
That's if we can get it by context. That's all I need. I've done my job.
- [20:00]
Robert Mays
I just knew what you were getting at.
- [20:01]
Dave
Yeah, I guess I probably would have gone with Voltron like the child of the 80s that I am.
- [20:07]
Derek
That's a generation before me, which, like, I also understand that, but not where my head goes immediately.
- [20:11]
Dave
You know what's funny? I mean, like, I really. I like what the Saints did, and I think I joked about it last week that they're going to become everybody's darling to go from worst to first. I think that's more about the overall quality of the NFC south and that it's a division without a true juggernaut. But it's so. It's funny how the last six, seven weeks of the season color your perception. I mean, if you add David Edwards and Travis Hn to an offense where Tyler Shook continues to play like an ascending player and to continues to look that way, it's really easy to talk yourself into this being a much better team. How realistic is it? I think you probably got to split the difference and say, well, it's not going to always look that great and Tyler Shook is not a finished product, even if he is very, very exciting coming out of his rookie season. I think that's probably fair, Derek. But I do, again, I think the Saints are closer to being a.500 type of team. Like, if you're going to lose Demario Davis. I think they do a good job of offsetting that. They were never going to hold on to Elante Taylor for that price. But I actually think there's a lot of fun DBs in their secondary like Kool Aid. You get Quincy Riley and Jonas Sanker very quietly were like awesome, awesome rookie players for them that you can be excited about moving forward. They very quietly resigned Julian Blackman like way before free agency even got going. So even losing a guy like Alante Taylor, I feel pretty good about their secondary. And again now you open yourself up to do the best thing with a top 10 draft pick. It's probably not going to be a running back anymore, but could you add a top tier receiver to your offense? Could you find an edge rusher like very similar to Washington other than the fact that they didn't give a hundred million dollar contract out at edge rusher. But what do you feel better about when your pick comes up at number eight overall? It's tempting to be really, really excited about the Saints because of potentially finding a quarterback answer, but I think the, the more fair answer is that they're probably like marginally better after this. Even if I am excited, I land
- [22:21]
Robert Mays
in a pretty similar spot when it comes to the overall difference in quality. Like I think that they're a little bit better but my favorite part about this is they just feel normal now, right?
- [22:32]
Derek
Them just like kind of doing one cool signing little things here and there and they just had like a regular off season. It was a little jarring to go through actually.
- [22:40]
Robert Mays
It's, it's just so comforting. Like the Saints have a second year quarterback. He flash a little bit. They are now in a spot where they can spend in structured contracts in the same way they signed all these guys. There are no void years on any of these deals. Like they're able to just hand out these contracts like a normal NFL team. You look at some of the rising players especially in the secondary. It's one of the reasons you can let a guy like Alante Taylor go because you drafted a lot of guys that you want to have opportunities. This team had six picks in the first four rounds last year. They have five picks in the first four rounds this year. Even the signings that they made. David Edwards is going to be 29 but sign a guard to his age 29, 30, 31 seasons, like that's a multi year proposition for you. HN is obviously much younger than Alvin Camara is and so and Kate Nellis is younger than Demario Davis is. So you're trying to get a little bit younger with some of your free agent signings. You're trying to plug a few of these holes. You have one kind of two like top ish of the market signings, which is a completely reasonable thing to do when your quarterback is making half a million dollars a year. And now you have a lot of draft picks again for a team that is retooling a little bit. Like, I don't know how much better roster is now than it was 10 days ago, but I think the entire approach is part of a larger plan that makes the Saints feel just like a normal. We're doing things on the rhythms that we should be doing things NFL franchise. And that's worth celebrating. Like, you throw a party for that shit.
- [24:07]
Dave
It's very refreshing to understand what the Saints are doing. Like, they were spending like crazy trying to maximize a window and then they just kept that attitude like, five years longer than they needed to. And now to. To see them behaving in a way that tracks with what's on their roster and what their books look like, it's nice, it's normal.
- [24:28]
Robert Mays
And you look at the roster right now and I think the one of the benefits of just where they sit, there are a couple needs that are more glaring than others, right? Like, they absolutely need another receiver. Like, and if they did that in the top 10, I would completely understand that they need more guys on the defensive line. Like, but with the way the current roster is set up, this isn't a finished product. Like, the fact that they need more pieces at some of those positions is completely acceptable. And now they're in a spot where they have a lot of draft picks to potentially address some of those needs. Again, it just feels like a normal football team conversation.
- [24:58]
Derek
They are in a spot where this top 10 pick is like, perfect. I know we say best player available for a lot of teams, but they don't have like an oh, shit, we need to solve this position. They truly can just like, whoever is there at. What are they, eighth in this draft? Yeah, seven. Something like that. They can just take literally whoever they want, which that range of the draft is pretty nice.
- [25:16]
Dave
I would throw like, cornerback too. Like, we mentioned Delonte Taylor leaving.
- [25:19]
Robert Mays
Like, if.
- [25:20]
Dave
If they love their option at outside corner at number eight overall, that makes perfect sense too. I. Hey, what's funny is Saints fans hate that Saints. The Saints never seem to draft, like, the popular LSU players, so that would be if they cleaned up their books and started behaving normally and then drafted an LSU player in the top 10. I don't think anybody in Louisiana would know what to do. That would be really funny.
- [25:46]
Robert Mays
All right, let's take our first quick break here and then come back and chat a little bit about the New York Giants.
- [25:51]
Derek
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- [27:07]
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- [28:06]
Robert Mays
The New York Giants A lot of moves, right? We've Got a lot of new faces on this Giants roster and a lot of guys who departed this Giants roster. Derek. But I'm curious, as you look at all of that movement, how much better are the Giants really than they were 10 days ago?
- [28:23]
Derek
I'm not really convinced they're better. Like, they're one that feels kind of worse to me a little bit. Like, I.
- [28:30]
Robert Mays
So if they're worse, but I definitely don't know if they're better.
- [28:33]
Dave
Well, that's harsh.
- [28:34]
Derek
I said maybe worse. Question mark. I think if it was like, if you absolutely had to push me one way or the other, I would be like 51% towards worse. But I do think they're probably neutral. But, like, so you lose Wanda Robinson, and I know I harped on, like, other teams signing him, the amount of money and stuff, but, like, when he's being replaced by Darnell Mooney, who's coming off of, like, a banged up season, and Calvin Aust, that's probably a downgrade. I know they added Isaiah likely, but in my mind, he's like a very niche player, and I'm probably not as high on him as a lot of other people. And then at corner, you lose Cordell Flot for Greg Newsom, who really, really struggled last season and kind of didn't have his best year even before that, even if at his best, he's a pretty good man corner. So I, I came out of this, like, feeling kind of uneasy about where the Giants ended up.
- [29:17]
Robert Mays
I don't disagree with that, but can't you understand all the bets they made?
- [29:21]
Derek
Right.
- [29:21]
Robert Mays
Like, even if in the aggregate, Darnell Mooney, the combination of Darnell Mooney and Calvin Austin are a little bit worse than Wando Robinson. You're paying pennies on the dollar for those players, and I get that, but
- [29:32]
Derek
it does make them worse. Like, those two things can be true at the same time, I think.
- [29:35]
Robert Mays
Yeah.
- [29:36]
Sponsor Voice
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- [29:36]
Robert Mays
I, I think that's fair. I, I look at it and I, I think I land in a similar spot where it's like. And they're probably like, it's probably a lateral or like a tiny bit worse. But at the same time, I think everything that they did could pay potential dividends on their way to being a better football team. I think that's kind of where I land with it. Like the Tremaine Edmonds signing, like, he wasn't worth that contract to the Bears. There's a chance that deal looks pretty good given the linebacker market and given how young he still is. The Greg Newsom thing we we talk about this with corners and we mentioned it with Cordell Flat, how corner is just so volatile and so getting Greg Newsome at I think it was like 10 million bucks. So it's not that much of a discount, but it's still a little bit of a discount given the top of the corner market. And so you're buying a dip potentially with if he's better than he was last year, is there a little bit of value to be had there? So I think there's enough of those where I can get behind most of the moves that they made. Even if they're not definitively a better team than they were earlier this month.
- [30:32]
Dave
I mean we would all, I, I get it. The draft hasn't happened. Crazy shit's going to happen every year. It always does. And I think the Giants have a huge variable just in the sense that they have a young first round pick quarterback that we don't know how good he actually is yet. I mean, if Jackson Dart whips, then a lot of this stuff doesn't matter. And the Giants will probably be better than we give them credit for. But right now we would agree on paper the Giants look like the worst team in the division. Or am I like, do y' all agree with me on that or are y' all not willing to go that far?
- [31:09]
Derek
I mean, probably like Philly and Dallas, I think clear them for sure.
- [31:14]
Robert Mays
Conversation. I think it's where you land.
- [31:16]
Dave
It's a matter of where you sit with Washington. If you want to, if you want to quibble about Washington, that's fine.
- [31:20]
Sponsor Voice
Fine.
- [31:20]
Robert Mays
I guess Giants are still probably worse. I think they're still probably worse.
- [31:24]
Derek
Yeah. Cause I think if we assume health for both quarterbacks, like I would rather just even if I'm a little bit iffy and have my questions about both rostered, I'd rather have like we've seen really good play from Daniels, whereas Dart is like still kind of a question.
- [31:35]
Robert Mays
I think my offensive line has more upside for Washington than it does for
- [31:39]
Derek
like if Conor Giants.
- [31:40]
Robert Mays
Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
- [31:43]
Dave
My overarching point is if you can accept the idea that Rome wasn't built in a day and John Harbaugh was brought here with some job security to lay a foundation and do this thing correctly. I think the Giants are probably better in the long term, even if they're still the fourth best team in their division. Like, I think if I was going to hold on to one of the big three of their free agents, Jermaine Illumina is the guy that I would want to hold on to even though, even though he's the oldest of the three, like if you've got him for three years, your offensive line has hope of becoming a strength moving forward. Robert, you took the words right out of my mouth. It's always hard to parse this stuff at this time of year, but Darnell Mooney's deal is worth up to 10 million and Calvin Austin's deal is worth up to 4.5 million. So if you get the absolute best version of those guys, you're still paying like 3 million less for two players than you would have to keep Wandell Robinson. I'm fine doing that every single time. Same thing with the Greg Newsome stopgap thing for Cordell Flot. Stopgap players with at least a chance to give you something and if you don't, so what we're trying to draft these guys replacements anyway. So I think this is a very typical coach coming in and laying a foundation, free agency class. Like you get a guy like a luminor and then you're looking for stopgap guys and culture guys. You know, you, John Harbaugh's got like of course John Harbaugh redid the whole specialist team. Like of course he did. John Harbaugh brought in Patrick Ricard. Like he's got some guys that are going to help him do some, you know, lay, lay down the program that he's accustomed to and you haven't made a decision that's going to screw you in the long term if you got it wrong. So yeah, I, I, I think the Giants are better in the long term right now, even if I'm not convinced how good of a football team they're going to be this year. And like I said, if Jackson Dart is good then this could look a lot better than we give it credit for really quickly. And they still have a top five tip, top five pick and a top 40 pick to use as well. I'm, I'm not going to go as far as to say I'm bullish on the Giants, but yeah, I think they're, I think they're a better team. Even if I still think that this is going to be a multi year process.
- [34:04]
Robert Mays
The moves that they made I think are in service of becoming a better football team. I know that's couch in like 10 layers of caveats but that, that's where I sit with this. Even if they're not immediately better. The other thing I wanted to make very clear about this exercise just to get out ahead of people clipping this later on when a certain team is better or worse, when we say is this team better? It is purely the roster. Is the roster better? Because of course if Jackson Dart or Tyler Shuck take a huge step forward, those teams are going to be much better. But there's no way to account for that right now. We're not building in improvement for young players toward the overall quality of like what the team does on a wins and losses level. This is purely right now the players on the Rock roster, are they better now than they were 10 days ago? I don't just making it very clear about that like in the spirit of
- [34:54]
Dave
the exercise on Friday night when the Giants are done picking and I know they gave their three to Houston last year so it's not as much capital as you would probably prefer, but after they've made a pick in the top five and then pick 37, I bet I'll be able to half assedly talk myself into them being like kind of a frisky team.
- [35:17]
Derek
Oh man on the island there.
- [35:21]
Robert Mays
The last thing I want to say about this likely is one of those players where landing spot was going to be very important for like how much I liked the move and as much trepidation as I kind of have about the Matt Nagy hiring overall, the ability to utilize and build an offense through this one specific type of player, I actually do have faith in their ability to figure that out and so I do like the likely thing more for them than I might in a different sort of offensive system that doesn't really understand how to tap into sort of
- [35:53]
Dave
skill set that probably is fair.
- [35:55]
Derek
Isn't. Also Greg Roman is on the staff. So like and obviously that's a little bit more of a run game thing, but still.
- [36:00]
Robert Mays
Yeah, I just, I mean think about where Nagy comes from. Like obviously the Kelsey one is the easiest thing to point out when it comes to, you know, utilizing this sort of tight end. But like Nagy's been doing this since like Trey Burton was on the Bears in 2018. Like it's this has been a part of this offensive philosophy for a while and so I do think likely has a chance to be more productive here than he might be on a team where he'd be a little bit miscast. Let's get to our next one here. The Chicago Bears. Derek, are the Chicago Bears or how much better are the Chicago Bears now than they were 10 days ago?
- [36:32]
Derek
So I said they are a little bit worse, but not in a way that makes me scared. Like I think yeah, I Think the roster is a little bit worse. Like, it is.
- [36:41]
Robert Mays
It's okay to say that.
- [36:42]
Derek
Exactly. Like the Bradbury thing, like him replacing Dolman. 1. You didn't know Dalman was going to retire like that. And, and they made as good of a move there as they possibly could. That's totally fine. I think a lot of the changes on defense, they have more depth, I think, but like, overall, a lot of the changes to me kind of come out like net neutral. And then on offense, the off the more one is funny because, like, yes, losing a player of his quality hurts. And we talked about, I said on the AFC show how much that might help Buffalo, but that clearly was just not like a healthy situation for anybody. And like, if Roma Dunes is just healthier next year, like, that probably just doesn't matter as much. So I'm. I think I pretty much came out like net neutral, maybe 1% worse.
- [37:23]
Dave
The other thing about the DJ Moore trade is, like, we all were making peace with the idea that DJ Moore's time in Chicago was up, like in December. Like, I didn't make that up. People were doing the mental math on that before the regular season was even over. So to, to, you know, be upset that something you expected two months ago finally happened. And I, it. I just don't buy it. Yeah, I mean, I think it's fair to say the Bears are probably a half step worse than they were at the end of the year, and that's mainly just because Garrett Bradbury is not as good as Drew Dman. But I agree with you, Derek. Like, I thought they did a really good job of addressing a shitty situation. Like, that's not something you can really plan for. And to mitigate it the way that they did, I think was really nice. I think retaining Braxton Jones and bringing in Jedrick Wills as like a lottery ticket is phenomenal.
- [38:16]
Robert Mays
Like, I was going to say the exact same thing. Like, I would say the same thinking applies to the left tackle situation in my mind, where you're making a decent thing out of a bad situation, even if it's not overly exciting.
- [38:27]
Dave
Khalif Raymond is just Olamide Zakias with a Ben Johnston history. Like, I'm, I'm a fan of that. Like, I pretty much like everything the Bears did. Like, they got cheaper at linebacker. Kobe Bryant's a good player. Neville Gallimore is a good depth signing. Like, yeah, the Bears don't have the edge rush juice that they need to be like, a true contender. And I think, you know, sorry if this rubs Bears fans the wrong way. Like, last year was amazing. I don't, I think it's okay if they're not contenders yet. Like, they were.
- [38:57]
Robert Mays
Absolutely true.
- [38:58]
Dave
They were ahead of schedule and it's okay to not make up all of that ground in one off season. In fact, I commend the Bears for not rushing to do that because they think they're super close or because, because they're trying to get a stadium built or whatever other dumb reasons they might come up with. It's okay to do this in a more natural way. You can try to find that guy in the draft or you could trade for that guy at a later date. Like whether it's later this off season or at the trade deadline or a year from now, you're in a really good spot, your quarterback. Let's, let's all hope for Bears fan sake, like if Caleb Williams is that guy that you want to pay, that's not going to be a problem for a long, long time. And so it's, it's okay to slow play this thing. I think they're, I think they're probably a half step worse than they were at the end of last year, but that's, that's fine. I'm not losing any sleep about it. They could still win the division with this team, but yeah, I think it's fair to say they're at least a little bit worse.
- [40:00]
Robert Mays
They are. And that's not really a criticism. Like how they solve the Dolman thing is fine. What they did at left tackle is fine. I really like what Kobe Bryant potentially give them on the back end. That's an upgrade for me. You get a little bit cheaper at linebacker and now you've got four picks in the top 90 and three in the top 60 to try to fill the rest of this thing out. Right. If you can go find a safety in that range, it's. Everyone's told me there are a million of them. You sign Cam Lewis's depth, you drop a starting safety into that thing. You can use your first round pick on defensive line help. You can find hopefully a long term answer at center with your third round pick, which is 89, or you have a pick in the fourth round. Like they're, they have enough draft capital. Combined with what they did in free agency and combined with the contingencies they had where they were scrambling at those offensive line spots where I think you, I look at this and I'm completely fine with how it all went down. Even if I do think they're a slightly worse team now than they were 10 days ago or at the end of last season. Let's get to the next one here. We don't spend a ton of time on this. The Los Angeles Rams. Derek, how much better are the Los Angeles Rams today than they were two weeks ago?
- [41:05]
Derek
Significantly better. They actually have a secondary now moving on.
- [41:09]
Robert Mays
There isn't a lot to say like, they're significantly better. They spent a ton of resources to be significantly better. I hope they'd be better. And I, I think that they are
- [41:19]
Dave
number one in your power rankings heading into 2026.
- [41:24]
Robert Mays
Yeah, I, I just don't think there's that much more to say. Like, they brought back Cam Curl, they traded for Trent McDuffie. They signed Jaylen Watson. The guys they lost or are pending free agents are Jimmy G. And Kobe Durant.
- [41:34]
Derek
Yeah, the guys they lost were guys at secondary who they replaced with big ticket guys anyway. Who cares? Like, it.
- [41:39]
Robert Mays
Yeah, the Rams. 13.
- [41:42]
Derek
Yeah.
- [41:42]
Dave
I want to see what they do with pick 13. Like, the fact that they still have a pick that good to add to it is crazy, but I can't wait to see what they do.
- [41:50]
Robert Mays
The Arizona Cardinals. Dave, how much better are the Arizona Cardinals now than they were 10 days ago?
- [41:57]
Dave
Time is a flat circle because three years ago, the Arizona Cardinals were the tank team, the team that everybody just knew were tanking. And here we are again, like, after they flirted with feistiness for a couple years. The Arizona Cardinals are significantly worse. And the funny thing is, like, it's not even as if they let a ton of good players go. I mean, the guys they let go were guys that they cut. Like, they knew they were moving on from Kyler Murray, they knew they were moving on from Jalen Thompson. But when you incur losses like that and your best signings are A, A Gardner Minshew signaling that you're moving forward with this quarterback room. B. Isaac Sulu, who we've already joked is a really good player, but a puzzling ad at the age of like, 31 for a team that is multiple years off from contending. And then what, like Tyler Alier? I mean, I actually, I really, I really like Kendrick Bourne as a budget signing at receiver, but not, not for a team that is this far away from mattering. And I just, I think of the Cardinals team where, like, you started building a house and before you were even done, you realized that the foundation was screwed and you were like, all right, this thing's going to sink into the earth in a matter of like, five years. If we don't just gut it back down and start over again. And that's what it feels like the Cardinals are doing. I mean, you're even seeing. I don't know. Well, I don't know if this would actually happen, but like there were rumors on the Internet over the weekend that Josh Sweat could be had in a trade. So like a guy that you signed last year who was actually good potentially being available, it's just, I mean, the Cardinals are not making their intentions a secret. Like this is a team gunning for big time draft capital next year.
- [43:47]
Derek
So I think if we can remove the Kyler Murray thing, which again was kind of like predetermined. Right. Like we already knew that that was not going to be on and he really wasn't on the roster like in any real way for most of last season. I think if we remove that, I think they're maybe like slightly better. Like I think the skill players are better. Say Amalu is a nice AD at the offensive line. Defensively, losing Thompson and only adding Roy Lopez, that is obviously a little bit of a downgrade. But if they are not the most injured defense of all time, they'll probably end up in a pretty good spot there. Like, I don't think this is going to be a good team, but I do think the offensive roster actually has more depth and options to it than it did a year ago.
- [44:28]
Robert Mays
I guess that's true.
- [44:30]
Derek
I mean it's to the point of like it's not going to account amount to a whole lot. But I do think they have like more depth to their team than they did a year.
- [44:39]
Dave
How, how much fun are you going to have watching the Cardinals secure a top five draft pick? Like, is that what you're saying?
- [44:45]
Derek
Yeah, I mean, kind of. Like I, I like this is not going to be a good team. I actually like because they don't have a quarterback and because the offensive line, even if I think say a Mallow is a good ad, still needs help and maybe they can address that at three, it's still not going to be a good team. But I like, I do think the moves that they made this offseason, if we remove the Kyler Murray three, they come out like slightly positive for me.
- [45:08]
Dave
If you remove cutting their franchise quarterback.
- [45:13]
Robert Mays
Yeah, he wasn't playing in the back half of last year, so I don't even really consider him part of the roster. When I think about like where the Cardinals were, I think it's probably pretty neutral. I think Jalen Thompson is a good player. The funny thing About Sale Mallow and Algier is they would be two of my favorite additions to a team that was actually in like, within spitting distance of being competitive, right?
- [45:31]
Derek
I had like Algier to Denver and I'm like, God, that would have been incredible. And then he's in Arizona. It's like, ah, it's not as fun.
- [45:36]
Robert Mays
I think that they're probably a similar sort of team and it just doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. We're in like full Jacoby preset is a perfect Tank Commander mode and that's totally fine. Like, it just. You are. I think Dave's analogy was very good. You are starting back, if not at ground zero, because you've added a lot of young pieces over the last couple years in the draft and you hope those guys can still be foundational players for who you want to be. But in terms of, like, how aggressive you want to be and what your expectations are, all of that stuff, you're back to square one. And I think that's an okay place to be if you are the Cardinals right now. Let's talk about a team that actually finished the whole thing off last year, the Seattle Seahawks. Derek, how much better are the Seahawks now than they were 10 days ago?
- [46:23]
Derek
They are obviously worse. And also, who cares? You just won the Super Bowl. Like, this is kind of, kind of the inevitability of winning a Super bowl like this.
- [46:30]
Dave
Seahawks fans care for the record, like, no, we're not trying to be worse. Were trying to go for two. They are worse.
- [46:37]
Robert Mays
And I think it's impossible to argue otherwise. They lost Kenneth Walker, Boy and Mafe, Kobe Bryant and Tariq Wolin. The moves that they made were retaining Rashid Shahid and Josh Job and signing Emmanuel Wilson. So their biggest moves are just bringing back guys who are on the roster already. And then they signed a rotational running back. My the question I wanted to ask about this team is I just wonder what the overall mindset is here because if you look at the prices for all of those players, I can completely understand just in a vacuum, looking at 14 million for Kenneth Walker, 20 million for Boy Mafe, 13 million for Kobe Bryant, and even 1 year 12 million for Tariq Wallen when you already have Josh Job on the roster and saying, that's not for us. We just don't want to spend those prices on those players. But this team has a decent amount of money. They've got like 40 million in cap space for this year, and then they have a pretty decent chunk of change next year. They have some big extensions on the horizon. And maybe they're just trying to keep flexibility and give themselves pathways to anything they want to do over the next couple years. I think that's reasonable. This is a team that last year was potentially sniffing around a Max Crosby trade. Like, they are the sort of team that is willing to do some splashy things if the opportunities present themselves. Maybe that's the answer. Even if they don't have an actual way they want to be spending that capital. Right now, they're just looking at those players at those prices and saying that's not in our best interest. If that's the thought process, that's fine. But I'm just wondering what the thought process actually is as to why, like, Kobe Bryant at 13 million isn't something you'd want to do, even if theoretically you have the money to do something like that.
- [48:11]
Dave
I don't know. The fact that they have the money makes it interesting because they do. They have a larger amount of cap space than you would expect from a team that just won the Super Bowl. But I wrote down in my notes, with all due respect to those guys, like, I like Kobe Bryant, I like, like, like, I like. At this point, I think we're at. We've reached a point where Reek Woolen is better than he gets credit for. Even if his flaws are very real, he's still like, he. Like you would like to have him on your team, headaches and all. Kenneth Walker, also a good player, but I wrote in my notes, like, those are the types of guys that you're supposed to let walk and try to replace in free age or in the draft. I mean, and I don't disagree with that at all.
- [48:51]
Robert Mays
I think that's the right way.
- [48:54]
Dave
Maybe. Maybe their philosophy is, like, let Jon Cook. Like, they had a ridiculous tear at the beginning of the 2010s that helped them build the first super bowl team and then there was a lull and they're on another heater right now. And maybe the philosophy is we got three top 100 picks. If we keep kicking ass, we can find these guys again. They do. They have fewer picks to work with, though, because of the Shaheed trade and a couple. They have four total, four in the entire draft. So it's. It's not as much capital as you would probably prefer to replenish that. And that's why I have a. I have an eye on the running back situation because I, I'm just looking at it. I know they signed Emmanuel Wilson, but if Zach Charbonnet Tore his ACL in January. That's a spot where, like, I'm trying to bring in some more proven production there. And considering you'd probably like to replenish the cornerback spot, considering you'd probably like to just keep adding pass rushers, there's. I. I wouldn't want to use a draft pick on a running back if I were the Seahawks. Like, I think I'd rather try to get creative and find somebody else to come in and help tide me over until Charbonnet is available.
- [50:05]
Robert Mays
This, to me, felt like the team. I mean, there's 12 million.
- [50:09]
Dave
Absolutely. So I'm. I'm looking at that. Like, I wonder if the Seahawks have more to do there or if they'll try to. I mean, nobody loves drafting running backs with big picks more than the Seahawks do, but that's just. Just not. That's not something I would want to do with my current team. I would be trying to restock the guys that I lost on defense.
- [50:27]
Robert Mays
All right, well, the Seahawks are a little bit worse, but I think we can understand how they arrived at being a little bit worse. And there's really no arguing that they did anything wrong or had any significant missteps over the last 10 days. Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Derek, how much better are the Bucks now than they were 10 days ago?
- [50:45]
Dave
They are worse.
- [50:47]
Derek
They are a worse football team. You lose a guy like Mike Evans, that is obviously huge. And again, I know he's getting older, had some of the injury stuff, but still a pretty damn good player, especially if he can be healthy next year. And then on their front, like, they added some guys who are maybe a little bit more competent and the D line has a little bit more of a rotation. But I. I didn't see any needle movers. Like, this team is a little bit worse.
- [51:06]
Robert Mays
To me, they didn't sign any needle movers. They signed, like, three useful pieces. Anzalone, Ashaan Robinson, and Al Kadeem Muhammad.
- [51:12]
Dave
All of them.
- [51:13]
Robert Mays
It's just like, all right, like, I get how that's in service of you having, like, a somewhat deeper, more well rounded defense, bringing back Kate Otten. Get that. But you look at the players they lost, like, the Mike Evans and Jamel Dean thing. Even if you have Benjamin Morrison waiting in the wings and you were already planning for something like this, I do think they're a little bit worse. Dave, you. You have a better sense for this team than I do. I'm looking at this right now, and as I sit here and look at the roster and their approach this offseason and, like, who they are and where they're supposed to be and what they want to be. And I don't even mean this as a criticism. I think this is more. This is like, a consistent thing with me. I just don't really get them. Like, I just don't really understand them. Like, what are the Bucks trying to be right now? Because it kind of seems like they're a team that maybe should be pushing the throttle down a little bit more than they are. But at the same time, should they be one of those teams? Are they actually that close? Like, it's just a hard team for me to get my arms around, and I think it's been consistently that. And what they've done this off season has certainly not helped that issue at all.
- [52:14]
Dave
I'm flattered that you think that. And I know, you know, I. I got the Ryan Jensen jersey on the wall behind me, but, like, I feel equally confused by Tampa Bay this year and for the reasons that you just outlined. Because in my heart of hearts, like, Jason Light wants, like, they want to be a draft and develop team and they want to reward their own guys and build it all through the draft. They got all their own draft picks this year. I just. I came out thinking that they're roughly the same team, honestly. Like, I know they lost Mike Ev.
- [52:45]
Robert Mays
He only played half the season last year. I think that's worth mentioning when you talk about where they were last year and where they are now.
- [52:50]
Dave
Like, if. If you've got a Buka and Godwin is still there and Jalen McMillan is still there, and you bring back Kate Otten and you got Bucky Irving, you still got pieces on the offensive line, and then you swap out Levante David for Alex Anzalone, and you add a couple nice pieces on the defensive line that don't get you crazy excited. You lose Jamel Dean. But the guys they drafted last year look awesome. Like, if. If they want to make a bet on Benjamin Morrison and Jacob Parrish, I don't. I don't care. Like, I don't blame them for that, but it all equals out to, like, roughly the same team. And I'm just like, yeah, this team's probably capable of winning 10 games and getting bounced in the first round. And what's confusing about it, you just kind of outlined it. Robert, is like, you are a draft and develop team that wants to do it all in house. A, you haven't been able to gain any ground doing that. B, by the way, Baker Mayfield's already in a contract year. Like, Baker Mayfield is up for a new contract at the end of this season. And so are you pivoting off of that? Are you going to try to get a deal done this off season even though Baker was injured and very underwhelming over the second half of last season? If, like, are. Are you. Clearly they're not pushing their chips in to try to really get somewhere in the last year of Baker's deal.
- [54:13]
Derek
It's.
- [54:14]
Dave
It's very weird to me. It feels very. Just sort of running in place. Like they've just got the treadmill set at like 6 out of 10 and they're just kind of going for a nice jog and they'll probably be a pretty good team. But I mean, last year I thought they were pushing to be something more than that. And sitting here right now, I'm just, just like, I, I don't see it. Unless you get just like this crazy run of good health. Like, unless Ebuka explodes into being an elite receiver and Kalija can see is healthy and gives you something amazing this year. And Anzalone and the rookie and the young DBs are like, way better than we think. Like, I guess there's a bunch of ways this could happen, but you're just banking on development and I, I don't think that. I don't think you can do it all that way. And when you consider that Todd Bowles's job security is in a tenuous spot, I'm just like, ah, I just feel like we're playing out the string until we try something new next year.
- [55:14]
Robert Mays
But isn't that kind of what it feels like this to me. So a couple different thoughts here. One, when we were talking about how there's aren't that many teams anymore that are these draft and develop methodical teams, like every single one of them did a splashy thing over the last four or five years. The Bucks are probably the best. Like, they're, they're probably the team that aligns with that type of thinking more than anyone else in the league in this like, current version of the NFL with like the current decision makers in place? So I think that's part of it. They are that team. The other part of it is, doesn't this feel a little bit like a GM that knows he has job security, building a team for a coaching staff that doesn't have it, where it's like, why am I going to do something crazy here? To borrow from the future future. To build a team for a staff that's probably in a make or break it year anyway. Let's just be patient. Let's build this thing the way that we always do. We'll see what they can do with it, and if they can't, we have opportunities to pivot off this as we figure out what the next version of this looks like. That's probably what this is. It's just those dynamics. There's just a lot in play there that we don't often think about because typically everyone has a level of urgency within the building, and I just don't really think that's the case with this Bucks organization right now.
- [56:26]
Derek
That does make sense, though, because if that wasn't the case, you look at this roster and I think you can make this case for two years. It's like, why are they not acquiring like another difference maker on defense? Like, why are they not trying to go sign whoever it would be, Jalen, Phil, whatever you want it to be in this class? It doesn't really matter the fact that they are consistently just going for okay, we'll like draft DBs in the second and third round and we'll fill in like decent rotational defensive lineman signings. Like them not going for swings in that way. I think. I think it's getting a little bit frustrating.
- [56:53]
Dave
Yeah, they just, they feel like the same team, which, to give them credit, could be a pretty good team because they won the division several years in a row. But after the way last year ended, that's just not really inspiring right now.
- [57:05]
Robert Mays
We're going to take one more quick break and then come back and talk about another team that has done a lot of drafting and developing over the last few years.
- [57:14]
Pablo Torre
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- [58:11]
Dave
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- [59:36]
Robert Mays
The Dallas Cowboys Derek how much better are the Dallas Cowboys now than they were 10 days ago?
- [59:43]
Derek
I think they're better.
- [59:45]
Robert Mays
I think so too.
- [59:46]
Derek
Yeah, I think they're better. The defense, I mean them adding Jalen Thompson is nice. Kobe Durant, I know I harped on a little bit when he was with the Rams, but like he's that team needed any sort of secondary help that they could get. So I liked that. Obviously losing Oso Digizua is going to hurt you a little bit in terms of the pass rush, but you add Rashawn Gary, hopefully that does a little bit of something for you. Like they just desperately needed a bunch of bodies on defense and they did something. And the thing I want to say about the other side of the ball, they have done nothing on offense basically. Obviously they keep George Pickens, but they didn't really add anything. And last year when we did this with Arizona, it was like, okay, they have added and we did this with the Falcons too. It's like, oh, they've added nothing. They're probably going to stall out. This is not going to be good for them with Arizona. They were also losing Clayton Adams in the case of Dallas they still have him on the stack. But also the difference is like the Dallas offense is really good already. Like with teams like Arizona and Atlanta, it was like they were interesting, added nothing and then kind of stalled out. If Dallas kind of holds the line at where they were, like, that offense is really, really good. So, like, I'm kind of okay with them actually not doing a whole lot. And plus two, they could obviously, they could obviously still address something in the draft if they really wanted to.
- [60:56]
Robert Mays
I also think when you look at Atlanta specifically, and the only real issue Atlanta had is that they missed a handful of games from Dalman. But Ryan Newsle to me, the biggest argument you can make for why the Cowboys have a chance to be even better on offense next year than they were last year is that you're getting those guys back healthy, hopefully. I mean, the idea that Tyler Guyton might be healthy for an entire off season in year two of that offense, Cooper Bibi missed a handful of games. Like, I think that them staying the course on that side of the ball and just hoping for better health up front being the thing that's going to feel different about that team this year. I actually don't mind that overall as like a strategy and a thought process. Process.
- [61:34]
Dave
I'm looking at the Cowboys depth chart and I don't know where you would add help on offense. I mean, I guess you could have, maybe you could have tried a different running back instead of Javante Williams, but they did that deal so early before free agency that he was good last year.
- [61:49]
Robert Mays
He was good. He was.
- [61:50]
Dave
He was like, I don't have a problem with them resigning them, but that's just one of the few spots that I look at and I'm like, yeah, I guess they could have gone a different way, but they've invested a ton in the offensive line. Like it. It's not easy or. Or like advis my opinion to move on from most of those guys at this point, I guess you could try to find a better third receiver. But Ryan Flournoy is my guy. Like, I was really excited about what he showed last year, so I'm perfectly fine with them running it back on offense. Defense is definitely better. It's just a matter of how. Like, how much do you need to improve from historically awful? And it sure doesn't feel like they've done enough. Like being regular bad is instead of like historically bad. I'd still, I'd like to be closer to mediocre than bad. And I feel like the Cowboys are still a couple pieces away I don't disagree with that.
- [62:45]
Robert Mays
I also think that weirdly, Kobe Durant is the sort of player that you add to go from historically bad to just kind of bad. And I think that those players are really important.
- [62:53]
Dave
Kobe Durant had a good season and it just so happens that most people only remember the playoffs and like they were. The Rams secondary was bad in the playoffs, but Kobe didn't. Durant is a great addition for them. I love the Jalen Thompson signing Rashawn Gary. Look, I get it. Nobody in Green Bay was happy about him leaving. But if he can improve the run defense and give you anything, I think that's fine. Really. It's mainly, it's the rest of the cornerback room and then the linebacker room. And I, I could use a little bit more on the edge considering Don Donovan Ezraku's coming off of an interview injury. But yeah, man, the, the linebacker situation is terrifying. The cornerbacks outside of Durant, I mean, Duron Bland could still be a useful player, but I just feel like there's a lot more work they need to do.
- [63:42]
Robert Mays
The linebacker thing is the one question that I have. Like, I'm just a little bit surprised in this market where there were so many linebackers available that they didn't add somebody that could be like a starting caliber piece just from day one. Be like, yeah, we're dropping that and we're not thinking about it. That's the only thing thing that I'm like, I, I'm just a little bit surprised. Everything else they did, I'm like, I get it. Even the Odigo thing, it's like, I understand he's a good player, but you, you don't have enough draft picks because of the Pickens trade, because of the Quinn Williams trade. You have the two first, but other than that, you didn't have a lot of capital and you have a lot of needs to fill. And so trying to get one of those back and save $20 million against the cap. I completely understand that. Even if Odigo Zoo is a good player, the linebacker thing is the one area where I'm like, I can't really believe they haven't done anything yet to address that.
- [64:27]
Derek
I don't know if this has been like an accident or if this is just something the Cowboys are more willing to do. But, like, they seem pretty willing to take linebackers in the first round. Like more than a lot of other teams are necessary. Like, they took Vander Esh, like Jalen Smith. Obviously they've done it before. Like, these are all pretty recent Guys, they're willing to do that and it's a healthy enough linebacker class that if there was one they liked there at 20, I don't think that that would really surprise me.
- [64:48]
Robert Mays
Maybe that's the answer. If you can get a defensive lineman like an edge rusher and a linebacker in the first round, is that the path that you're trying to take and do you feel better about things if that's the case?
- [64:58]
Dave
Yeah. If I had to bet today, I would put a, I'd put a sizable bet on like CJ Allen out of Georgia being their pick at number 20 overall. Like that makes a ton of sense. But is, and this is the Cowboys are a draft and developed team. This is what they like to do. They've hit a lot of home runs doing it. But is asking two defenders drafted 12th and 20th to be the difference for a team with a Super bowl caliber offense, like, is that fair? Is that the right way to do it? And what I was going to say before that is to hear it from them. They were in on Nakobe Dean and he chose Vegas over them. And I'm like, all right, well if you were in on Nakobe Dean, then there's three or four other options where you could have tried to land the plane and to not have anybody. Like, I would, I would genuinely feel if, if the only difference about this Cowboys team was that they were coming out of free agency with Nicobe Dean or Devin Bush on their team, I would be like, all right, yeah, let's go. You got two first round picks. Like this sounds great. And I just, I, I think they are one, one more difference making addition away from me being really, really pleased with what they did.
- [66:10]
Robert Mays
That's pretty much exactly where I stand. Like if the one a signing of that tier of linebacker, do you feel a little bit different about the plan overall and how many needs they still have remaining heading into the the draft? Let's go from the team that traded away Oso Digizua to the team that traded for Oso Digizua, the San Francisco 49ers. Dave, how much better are the Niners now than they were 10 days ago?
- [66:31]
Dave
The San Francisco 49ers on paper are way, way better in my opinion. And that's mainly because I, as the 49ers truther from last year, am factoring in things like Fred Warner, Nick Bosa, Mikel Williams coming back from injury. Like you're getting a lot of reinforcements just from guys that weren't able to play for you last year. George Kittle, I think obviously it's going to be a longer wait on him, so I don't include him like for the start of the season, but hopefully this is a healthier team. And then you add Mike Evans to it, you trade for Oso Diggie Zua even, you know, you bring back guys like our man Jake Tonjas, you got Dre Greenlaw back. It would be so much fun if he looked anything resembling the guy we remember from San Francisco. On paper. Paper, I think this looks like a much, much better team. Whether it kind of whether all those boxes get checked is probably up for debate, but I think there's a lot of reason for optimism based on what they've done and also what they're just already getting back from their roster from last year.
- [67:36]
Derek
Yeah, I think the roster's just better. Like, they, Mike Evans is an upgrade over Juan Jennings, Brandon Iuk, whoever it would have been last year, and then Oso Diggy Zula. They just did not have playable three technique guys last year at all. Like, I know that they drafted a couple of guys, but they just didn't have that. So to go from that to a guy who is certainly above average and gives you a lot of juice, like, I, I'm pretty jazzed about where this team might be going.
- [67:58]
Robert Mays
They're better. I don't think it's all that complicated. They're better. The Diggy Zoo, I think, kind of puts it over the top. The third round pick is. It's not nothing like that. That's a real amount to give up for a guy on that contract. But you look at Evans, you look at him, I think they're absolutely better. And all of this is going to come down to a combination of two things. How much better do your young defenders get from last year? And are Fred Warner and Nick Bosa. Fred Warner and Nick Bosa. Like, does the defense take a significant step forward because of all of those factors? But that's not really the conversation we're having here. It's. Is the roster better than it was at the start of free agency? And I think the answer is undeniably yes. And just as we're recording this, Christian Kirk to the Niners, one year, six million, which I don't know how that fits in general with like where the Niners are right now and that receiving core, right, like I. With. With Piersol in there, like, I don't know exactly the role that Kirk fits that they don't already have. But for $6 million, just getting a little bit more depth at receiver like, that just feels worth it.
- [68:58]
Derek
I think that's honestly all it is. I mean, think about just how ravaged they've been over the last couple of years at receiver. Like, them just getting like, hey, we just want to protect ourselves a little bit here. I totally get that. And that's a good guy to go out and do that for.
- [69:09]
Dave
It does give me pause that the Niners are, I mean, they do it. They have a lot of young players on their defense, but to some degree, it feels like they're doubling down on being an ancient team. I mean, Mike Evans, now, Christian Kirk joining the fray. We know all of the older, all pros. Christian McAffrey is another year older. I mean, the, the age of the roster gives you pause. But again, on paper in March, I think they look so much.
- [69:35]
Robert Mays
It's all, it's one year deals essentially though, right? Like, if you're making the, if you're like assigning foundational pieces that are aging, that's different to me than like, we're trying to push it as far as we can this year. They want to move on from Christian Kirk and Mike Evans this year along with Trent Williams, and get a little bit younger on offense. That pivot is available to them. And so when it's one year deals for some of these aging guys, that matters to me and worries me a little bit less. Fair the Atlanta Falcons. Derek, how much better are the Falcons now than they were 10 days ago?
- [70:07]
Derek
They're definitely not better, I don't think. I think they've added, yeah, they've added a lot of depth on defense, but that's kind of it. That, like, that's really all they've done.
- [70:18]
Dave
The Falcons, to me, have the look of a team that are asking Matt Ryan, Ian Comet Cunningham and Kevin Stefanski to just sort of of evaluate things for a year and decide what to actually do next year.
- [70:30]
Robert Mays
It's exactly it.
- [70:32]
Dave
I mean, when I was doing this exercise and trying to get a handle on where the Falcons are, I flipped the tab over to their 2027 cap space and I was like, oh, okay, they're, they don't give a shit about this year. The Atlanta Falcons are. They're lying in wait for 2027. And so I, I don't think it's terribly surprising that they don't look like a better team. They look like a team that just wants to tread water for a year.
- [70:56]
Robert Mays
Yeah, they're in a holding pattern. They have $144 million in cap space next year. They have to figure out deals For B, John Robinson, for Drake, London. There are things looming there, but this is a team that is very much in figure it out mode. And so the fact that they've. There's been a little bit of attrition and they're not better, I think that's completely acceptable. This one's a slightly different conversation. The Detroit Lions. Derek, how much better are the Lions now than they were 10 days ago?
- [71:20]
Derek
So I like some of what they did, but they're worse. You lose Decker, you lose David Montgomery. And I know like the offensive line you can sell yourself a little bit on, like, the depth is going to be better. They signed Cade Mays, who should be a better center than they had last year. Juice Scruggs is better depth than I think a lot of the guys they had last year. And then I even actually like some of the other DB signings that they made, like Roger McCreary. To potentially play the nickel for you for a team that has been decimated at corner for the last two seasons, I think is kind of nice. And then one of my favorite little like, role playing players in the entire NFL, Christian Izzian, who had been on the Bucks for a few years, has played. He will play literally anywhere in the secondary. And so again, for a team that is constantly banged up in the secondary, that's a pretty good ad, I think. I still just look at this roster and it's like, you have no edge players. You lost some of those guys there. You lost some of your other defensive line depth. You lose Alex Anzalone at linebacker. Like, I just, It's a worse roster.
- [72:16]
Dave
I would agree with that. I would just add the caveat that not all of it is because of things that happened in free agency. I mean, if, if you want to include Taylor Decker being cut as a free agency thing, that's fine. That's obviously a big one. But the other thing for me, looking over the Lions, I was like, God, it just sucks that I don't know what to do with Brian Branch or Kirby Joseph right now. Like, Brian Branch tore his Achilles in December. Kirby Joseph's knee injury is very mysterious. Dan Campbell didn't have much of an answer about it when he was asked about it at the combine. And I'm just like, a few of your biggest pieces are just question marks heading into the sea or not heading into the season. But for where we are right now in the calendar year, they are question marks. And then you add that into the usual attrition that you get. I already said it. I love the Cade Mays signing. But across the board, I think it's fair to say that they're a little bit worse. I mean Isaiah Pacheco is a downgrade from David Montgomery at this point in their respective careers. So. So it's not all their fault. I think some of it's bad luck, but I do think they're worse.
- [73:23]
Robert Mays
This team's in an interesting spot, right? Like I understand moving on from Taylor Decker at this point in his career if he's not willing to take a pay cut, but you still need to figure out that position. Now, even if you can understand why they did a lot of the things that they did, when you just look at the depth chart right now and you look at, I mean they have picks, right? They got a fourth round pick back from Montgomery. They don't have a third round pick because they traded them for Tesla. But they've got enough. They've, they got four picks in the top one 28, four picks in the first four rounds. But you're looking at the depth chart and it's like they need an edge rusher somewhere here. Like they kind of need to take one in the first couple rounds and that guy is going to need to play for them. Like it just feels like overall this team is scrambling to fill some of those holes in a way that they haven't been over the last couple years. They just don't feel like nearly the filled out deep rocket that they did at their best over the last couple seasons.
- [74:17]
Derek
Well, and I think this is kind of like to what you're talking about with some of the trade stuff. You mentioned the Tesla one they also traded up in the year before for. Was it Manu that they went up for in the third round? Like traded some capital there. Like if those guys are good and they work out, nobody really cares if you don't have those draft picks anymore. But if neither of those guys are going to be significant contributors for you, well, it's like now those guys are just kind of like mid level players for our team, maybe depth and we lost out on picks to replenish in these spots. Like maybe they could have spent that extra third on another defensive lineman last year. Maybe that guy can actually play for you, that sort of thing. And so I think we're just seeing some of the attrition of them kind of trying to draft the way that they had at certain points.
- [74:56]
Robert Mays
And they, they don't have a third round pick in the 2024 draft. They traded that for Carlton Davis. And so there's Just like a decent amount of missing draft picks from over the last few years. And listen, Tesla might be, might be a contributing piece for them. He, he might be a bigger part of the offense now than he was last year, but it's just hard to bake that sort of progress in when you doing an exercise like this. The Minnesota Vikings sticking in the NFC North I don't think we have spent a ton of time on this one. Are the Minnesota Vikings better now than they were a week ago?
- [75:21]
Derek
Dave?
- [75:22]
Dave
Yeah, they're better. They have a quarterback. No offense to J.J. mcCarthy.
- [75:28]
Derek
They have a quarterback who is playable and like a solid NFL veteran. That's kind of all this comes down to.
- [75:34]
Robert Mays
Yeah, even Lyft, you look at the losses. Jonathan Allen, Jalen Naylor, Javon Hargrave, Ryan Kelly, Harrison Smith. There is some attrition here. I don't think it nearly offsets the potential upgrade from JJ McCarthy to. And again, I've said this a lot over the last week or so as we've talked about Kyler Murray. Even if he's the 18th best quarterback in the league, that is a huge upgrade from where they were a year ago. And I still don't think all of those losses offset the improvement from JJ McCarthy to merely average NFL quarterback play.
- [76:03]
Dave
Can I, can I throw a grenade into the show real quick, please? So I. We don't actually have to do this because it would take another 30 minutes. Would you be willing to power rank the NFC north right now, 1 to 4? Like how you feel about the teams?
- [76:17]
Robert Mays
It's a mess.
- [76:18]
Dave
When I was doing this, like when I was.
- [76:20]
Derek
I need another hour.
- [76:21]
Dave
When I was prepping my notes for this show, I was just thinking about it and I was like, holy. I don't know. I wouldn't know what to say. And I wouldn't blame the fan base that was pissed at me for ranking them fourth because, because it is just a cluster trying to figure out how you feel about that division.
- [76:39]
Robert Mays
I truly don't know. Like, I. I truly don't know.
- [76:42]
Dave
I.
- [76:42]
Derek
It.
- [76:43]
Dave
It's borderline impossible.
- [76:44]
Derek
And I don't know if thinking about it and staring it at it longer is going to make it better or worse. I think it might be worse. I think I might like get even more freaked out looking at it for an hour.
- [76:54]
Dave
Just, just punt and wait for the draft. Like wait. Wait for someone to have a draft that you absolutely love so you feel okay. Like elevating them above the rest.
- [77:04]
Robert Mays
I want to look at the division odds. The Vikings are 6 to 1, they win the division. The Bears are plus 340 right now at the sets on the sportsbook I'm looking at. So they have a Packers, Lions, Packers, Bears, Vikings.
- [77:18]
Dave
Lions. Packers, Bears, Vikings. See, I don't. I don't think I agree with that. I know. And I don't know the order for the record, but I don't think I agree with.
- [77:28]
Derek
With that.
- [77:29]
Robert Mays
It's a jumbled mess. That's where I land with it.
- [77:32]
Derek
Lions first feels wrong. I think that's my only take. That doesn't feel right.
- [77:38]
Dave
Okay, here's my. My hot take right now in March, subject to change my opinion. I think the answer for me would be Chicago or Minnesota. I'm not kidding, man.
- [77:52]
Robert Mays
I. I'm choosing not to engage in this discussion for multiple reasons. For multiple reasons.
- [77:57]
Dave
It's not worth it. There's no upside.
- [77:59]
Robert Mays
Give me and then I'll talk about it.
- [78:01]
Dave
Yeah.
- [78:01]
Robert Mays
Sticking in the NFC north. The Green Bay Packers. Dave, are. How much better are the Green Bay packers now than they were 10 days ago?
- [78:09]
Dave
So, having just said I wouldn't have them in the top two, I. So I think the packers are worse, but I don't think they're as bad as, like, the name power lost suggests that they are. So, like, you look at it and you're like, oh, they lost Quay Walker and they lost Rashan Gary and Romeo Dobbs and Nate Hobbs and Elton Jenkins and Kingsley and Igbari. Like, like, it's a long list of players that did things for them and a few of those matter. Right. But you offset Quay Walker with Zaire Franklin. Losing Dobs hurts. There's no way around that. But you have three or four other guys. Christian Watson was awesome last year. You just drafted Matthew Golden. It's a realistic hope to think that he can ascend. You lose Malik Willis, but you're hoping he can net you like, a big comp pick in the future. I don't think I know Packer fans aren't losing sleep about losing Rashawn Gary. I don't know how you could be losing sleep about losing, like, Nate Hobbs or Elton Jenkins. And so I look at it and I'm like, yeah, there's a lot of production gone here, but I think most of it is weatherable. Really the biggest thing for me is just, what's Micah Parsons status? And that is my biggest question mark. Like, if you promised me Micah Parsons was going to be ready for week one, I probably would have the packers on top of the division. But I think he's that important and it's that big of a question mark that it makes me nervous. But the losses in free agency don't freak me out as much as I thought they would.
- [79:40]
Derek
I think I like and understand what they did. And also they are a worse team. That's kind of where I landed with it. Like, that's the short of it.
- [79:46]
Dave
That's a more blunt way of saying it. Like that's. Yeah, that's fine.
- [79:49]
Robert Mays
Yeah, I, I think that's where I land as well. Every. Everyone they lost, there is already some plan for how they're going to replace that player. Maybe like an Igbari may be the only. Except exception to that.
- [80:01]
Derek
Edge is probably the only one where that's the case.
- [80:03]
Robert Mays
Yeah, I think in general they need.
- [80:06]
Dave
Yeah. Still, Anik Bari is like the most painful loss of the guys that they lost for me because there's no clear
- [80:12]
Robert Mays
replacement on the roster. Right. Like, they need to replenish just the interior depth and the edge depth, period. But you look at everybody else. Romeo Dobbs, they drafted Matthew golden in the first round. Quay Walker, they traded for Zaire Franklin. Elton Jenkins, they resigned. Sean Ryan, Rasheed Walker, they drafted Jordan Morgan in the first round two years ago. Now he's going to get to play left tackle. So at least there are some sort of. Sort of contingencies for everyone they lost. Even if they're going to be questions about how well those contingencies play out compared to the guys that are walking out the door.
- [80:39]
Dave
Oh, and a big one. I forgot I mentioned Micah, but also tell me what Tucker Kraft looks like, how many games I'm getting out of him and how well he plays. Like, if you, if you're telling me Tucker Craft and Micah Parsons are playing at an all pro level for all of or most of the season, then I'm in, baby. I'm back. Like, I never left. Like, I love the packers just as much as I did last year year. But those are very big ifs and not ones that I'm willing to bet on in March.
- [81:05]
Robert Mays
Last one. Philadelphia Eagles. Dave, how much better are the Philadelphia Eagles now than they were 10 days ago?
- [81:11]
Dave
Similar to the Seahawks, I think the Eagles are like moderately worse, but it's in an unconcerning way for me. Like the. I mean, these are just the things that happen when you're a successful team. You were never going to compete with that price for Jalen Phillips, so he's out the door. Nicobe Dean is gone. But you drafted Jihad Campbel the first round last year. Like that is, that's smart team building. Drafting Andrew Makuba a year before you lose Reed Blankenship is smart team building. Finding Johnny Munt and finally getting a tight end who can do some blocking for you is good team building. And then the, I mean, the Reek will improve it deal is my absolute favorite thing. I think that's a high upside signing. I think across the board, like the. The edge situation gives me Paul pause. The receiver depth and offensive line depth gives me pause. So I think in totality, I think they're a little bit worse, but not in like some kind of crazy way. Like, I still feel perfectly good about this team.
- [82:11]
Derek
I came out at neutral and I think for the two big defensive things, obviously it's losing Jalen Phillips and then adding Tariq Woolen. Phillips is a better player than Reek Woolen is. But to me, the gap between Phillips and the next guy down on your starters on defensive line is split smaller than the gap that they have made up for what cornerback two was last year to what Reek Woollen is. And so that probably like all comes out to relatively even for me, like when you factor in also losing to Kobe Dean. But like, I kind of like what they're. I honestly think if anything, having Reek Woolen gives them a little bit more flexibility. Like they were just so locked into playing certain coverages certain ways last year because they just did not have a third corner they believed in at all.
- [82:54]
Robert Mays
Yeah, I think that. I totally agree with that framing and I was thinking about it in those terms when we were planning for this. I think the Jalen Phillips is a better player than Tariq Woolen. I think it's easier for them to get by on defense with Tariq Woolen instead of Jalen Phillips.
- [83:08]
Derek
Like J. Hunt will give you more than like a dory Jackson was giving them last year if he has and they signed right.
- [83:15]
Robert Mays
Like, I think I, I think that like they can piece that thing together and I think it's harder to piece together the quarterback two spot. They tried to do it all of last year and it did not work.
- [83:27]
Dave
I mean, that all sounds good, but they did trade for Jalen Phillips midway through the year. Like, it's easy to say you'll piece it together until you get to week six and you just don't have any juice off the edge.
- [83:38]
Robert Mays
Well, they, they have the 23rd overall pick. Right? Like that's where that, that's where that comes from. And even the Jalen Phillips thing, this team is just conjuring third round picks every year. You know they have the 68th pick in this draft because of the Hassan Radek trade.
- [83:52]
Derek
Hassan? How is that still possible?
- [83:55]
Robert Mays
68th pick in this draft is going back to the Eagles and guess what? As of right now, they have a third round compact because of the Jalen Phillips thing. So this is what happens when you have endless job security. You can trade a third round pick for Jalen Phillips and you know you're getting that third round pick back in two years anyway. So who gives a shit?
- [84:12]
Dave
They also have two fours in this upcoming draft. Like, I mean, and I know people get tired of hearing it, but the Eagles are just one of those top tier teams when it comes to knowing how to do this. And again, like having guys like Campbell and Makubo waiting in the wings as solutions to free agents that you're about to lose. I mean, they're just, they are usually a year ahead of things and when they're not, they're aggressive enough to fix it by doing stuff like trading for Jalen Phillips. Which is, that's another reason why even if I think they're a little bit worse, I'm not worried about them because they will be willing to do whatever it takes to fix the problems that arise.
- [84:51]
Robert Mays
Yeah. And I assume that Edge Room is not going to look the same on September 1st as it does right now.
- [84:56]
Dave
Yeah.
- [84:56]
Robert Mays
All right, that is all we've got for today. Dave and Dane will be back with our first post free agency or mid free agency I guess. Building the Beast episode that will be in your guys feed tomorrow. Tomorrow we'll be back with shows on Thursday and Friday later this week. Very much looking forward to it. For now, that's all we got. Appreciate you guys. Listen, we'll talk to you very soon.
- [85:32]
Pablo Torre
Hi, this is Pablo Torre from Pablo Torre finds out and today I want to talk to you about Boost Mobile because we spend a lot of time analyzing inefficiencies in sports, overvalued contracts, money tied up in the wrong places, and so on. But those inefficiencies aren't just on a roster. Sometimes they're in your own monthly expenses. Boost Mobile says switching to their $25 Unlimited Forever plan can unlock up to $600 in savings a year. That's $25 a month for unlimited data, talk and text when you bring your own phone. If that money is trapped in a pricey phone bill, it might be worth a second look. Visit boostmobile.com to learn more. After 30 gigabytes, customers may experience slower speeds. Customers pay $25 per month as long as they remain active on the Boost Mobile Unlimited Plan Savings claim based on a January 2026 Boost Mobile survey of 1,000Americans with single line unlimited plans, comparing average annual payments of major carriers to 12 months on the Boost Mobile Unlimited Plan. For full offer details, visit boost mobile.com
- [86:29]
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Dave
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