← The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL
The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL
Ravens Maxx Crosby trade highlights a busy weekend on the eve of free agency
01:02:23
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- [00:00]
Dave Hellman
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Robert Mays
Foreign welcome to the Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mays. Special Sunday episode for you guys today on the eve of the tampering period and the league you're starting in the NFL. We talked about it on Friday. If some stuff happened and we felt like there were enough newsworthy moments over the weekend, we would record something on Sunday. I would say that the weekend cleared the bar. I think we got there. Max Crosby traded to the Baltimore Ravens for two first round picks. We. We didn't talk about the Raider side of this at all on the show, which I that's on me.
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Paige from Giggly Squad
What?
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Robert Mays
Let's do it now. Totally makes sense for the Raiders. Like you're a team that's resetting to get two first round picks for Max Crosby. I think is where you want to be as you kind of put everything on the table when it comes to your roster. It's a lot to get for a 29 year old player. We don't often see this sort of price tag for guys on third contracts that are hitting this point in their career. We talked about that element of it from the Raven side at length on the show, but from the Raiders side of this, Max Crosby is a fantastic player, but I completely understand if you're the Raiders and you're totally resetting thinking this is the best path forward. We've seen what the Raiders are with Max Crosby and not much else. And I think trying to explore a different sort of reality completely makes sense if you're John Spytech and if you're Las Vegas Bunch of other moves that that came down the pike over the last couple days we had some other movement on the edge rusher market with Khalil Mack. The interior offensive line market has started to come into focus with the Connor McGovern deal signing back with the Bills. Sean Ryan signs with the Packers. That kind of pushed us to discuss some of the other center moves that we'd seen over the last few days with Tyler Biotish going to the Chargers and Garrett Bradbury coming to the Bears. We had a few other smaller moves like the Zaire Franklin trade to talk about and then the Eagles making a big move resigning Jordan Davis. And then we spent some time thinking about what that may mean for the Jaylen Carter trade market and what his future might look like in Philadelphia. So very much enjoyed this conversation with Dave Hellman and Derek Classen. Let's get to it right now. Little emergency podcast action here on a Sunday morning which been helped along by the daylight savings. So it's actually feels more like 10am but little podcasting with your coffee this morning. Very excited to do it because we had a ton of news this weekend. I figured that we might. But Dave, you're sitting there Friday night. I'm enjoying a nice leisurely evening with my wife on the couch and then I get the alert on my phone. I am incredibly excited. She does not care. A tale was old this time. One of my favorite things that happens when we get these like massive news moments at those times of night and we got, we had, we had a hell of a one on Friday night. We can say that.
- [04:26]
Derek Classen
See, that's the fun difference is I am marrying somebody who works in the industry. So Carmen and I just dropped everything we were doing and we were like charting out the value, deciding how we felt about it. I think we were like making dinner and had a TV show on and we just dropped everything for like 45 minutes to, to gauge how each other felt about this. It was great and it's, it's right in line. Like, we joke about it for a reason. Like as soon as it's Friday night or as soon as you kind of feel like things are calming down. The Baltimore Ravens swing a major trade to, I don't even want to say, like, pry their window open because I think even despite of a, despite a pretty disappointing season in Baltimore, I think most people were, were probably still going to be pretty high on them when all was said and done. But talk about a swing for, for the fences to get you excited about a new regime. I mean, John Harbaugh leaves and all hell breaks loose. Like the biggest, the biggest Ravens trade in history. I mean, I know that's only 31 years, but still, this is even for a team that hasn't been unwilling to spend. You know, we talked about Roquan Smith recently. Like, they, it's not that they've been unwilling to do it, but this still feels like another level when you're talking about the Baltimore Ravens addressing a problem.
- [05:42]
Robert Mays
There's no doubt. I think there are a few different layers to this. Where it feels unprecedented, might be strong, but it definitely takes things into a new direction. I feel like for the market for players for the Ravens in general, I think there are a lot of layers that we need to dig into here. But Derek, I'm just curious, your initial reaction when you saw this, like, what was your thought when you saw that Baltimore was the team that ended up willing to do this?
- [06:02]
Dave Hellman
I mean, I think this is a team that again, is closer than last year felt. I mean, they were extremely banged up on, on both sides of the ball, but definitely on defense, their quarterback was hurt. Like this, to me feels like a team that is at its core like a ten plus win team pretty consistently. And I think for them to realize that lamar Jackson is 29 years old, which is not old, but given the way that he plays quarterback and the way that he might age compared to some other guys, like this next three year window is kind of it. And so for them to try to pry it open with Max Crosby, who I know last year was a down year and you know, I think some people have even made the argument that the year before was a down year. I still think he is a monster. Like, I just. He is an ironman. Like the way that he's going to defend the run for them is incredible. He's the best pass rusher they've had in I don't even know how long. Like it's been a very, very long time.
- [06:47]
Robert Mays
So Terrell Suggs on the Edge. Yeah, I mean, I mean, that's what we're talking about here.
- [06:51]
Dave Hellman
Like, legitimately, like it's been a very long time since they've had a player like this. So I'm incredibly jazzed for, for this. I think it's going to be really, really good.
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Derek Classen
Yeah, kudos to you, Maze. I saw, I saw you pumping your, your take from, from the week where, hey, but you were, you were right. I mean, obviously it's a different player and you do something totally different. But a Jalen Phillips signing, the idea was to accomplish a similar goal and you just took it to a completely different stratosphere.
- [07:19]
Robert Mays
I don't think I deserve any credit for that. I think it just mostly speaks to where I thought their mindset might be. And that's my first reaction to this. It's funny that you guys go to, oh, they're still close and that's why they have to do this. My thought when you see a move like this is we're further away than we want to be, like, in terms of just being able to ride it out and stay the course and operate the way that we typically like to. And I think that's, to me, one of the more surprising elements of this is that, you know, the Ravens, especially at edge, if you look back over the last 10 or 15 years, they've just done such a good job of having this kind of assembly line where they would cycle through these day three, day two to day three type of picks over and over and over again. And they'd let those guys hit free agency because they were comfortable being able to replenish that position. And it's kind of run dry. You know, the OA thing is interesting. Obviously he's going to get paid a lot in free agency, but he's a specific type of player. You know, he's a little bit undersized. He's, you know, pass rushing is mostly what he's giving you. Typically when they were hitting on those guys, I mean, Derek, they were big bodied players that really were able to give you a little bit of everything. And for them to just not have anybody like that come along in the last four or five years, I think just kind of speaks to, if not desperation and urgency at the position in a way that we don't typically see with the Ravens. And that's what this feels like to me. This feels like them scrambling a little bit in ways that they don't often have to. And that's not even a criticism. I actually think it's probably the right approach with where they are right now, but that's the element of this that just doesn't feel like a typical Baltimore Ravens move to me.
- [08:54]
Dave Hellman
Well, and I think part of the issue with why the edge stuff has run dry is they were drafting different players. Like you said, like when they were drafting those third, fourth, fifth round guys, it was Pernell McPhees and Zadarius Smiths. It was the 270 pound. Yeah. Matthew Judon, like it's going to be these guys who are 260 to 275 pound. We're going to put him at three tech. Sometimes we're going to put them over a center. They're going to be spinners. All this stuff. David Ajabo, like Adafe owe, those are not guys who really do that. And I think they kind of just started to go for speed in a way that just didn't really work for them. And I think that they couldn't figure out how to replenish the room in a way that they had for, you know, 10 years before that. And so I think this is, I think maybe it's a little bit of desperation. But I also do think that this is like you bring in Jesse Minter and you're like how do we get his defense off the ground as quickly as possible? And I think getting, if we consider both free agency and the likely trade market, like Max Crosby was the best player that you could get on the market. And so I think for them to go out and do that also knowing like specifically with Minters defense how important it is to have a edge defender who can defend the run like at a really high level and set the edge like that. I think this is going to go a really long way for them for that specific reason.
- [10:04]
Robert Mays
That. And that's where I land with this as well. The price is obviously huge and we can talk about it, but having a two way guy that's going to be able to contribute on every single play. But, but at the same time, I don't think he'll play every single play for the Ravens defense the way he did with the Raiders. And that's kind of why I think the production, you actually on a per play basis might see him be more efficient and more impactful. And listen, you look at the numbers from last year, he was banged up, he's on an imploding team betting that you're going to see a better version of Max Crosby in 2026 than you did in 25. I completely understand that. If you're the RA so on a football level, I'm 100% with you. But you look at the price and you just look at history and we just don't usually see stuff like this, Dave. I mean, two first round picks, you look at the guys who've been traded for two first round picks over the last 10, 15 years, you even go back for a little bit further than that. It's almost exclusively second contract players that are star level guys. Micah Crosby. Micah Crosby, Micah Parsons last year is an easy example.
- [11:01]
Derek Classen
We've got Micah Crosby.
- [11:03]
Robert Mays
Micah Crosby will be right. Yeah, just think about it. Mike Crosby would be real good. So Michael Parsons last year, you have that example. You know, Jamal Adams, Laramie Tunsil. These are guys that are second contract guys kind of hitting their prime. Max Crosby is going to be 29 years old. And so this is just a market we don't typically see. And you know, Quinn Williams is probably the closest analog when it comes to guys at this stage of their careers. Quinn and Williams goes for a one and a two to Dallas. Dallas was trying to send a one and a two to the Raiders for Max Crosby. And the Ravens, be that. Because that con, because that offer is on the table, they have to top it. And that's how you get to this place where you're sending two first round picks for a guy who's about to be 29 years old. And that's just not typically the type of move that we see anybody make.
- [11:50]
Derek Classen
Which I want to be clear, it's, it's a little unprecedented for the Ravens. I said on Friday night that it's exciting and it is undoubtedly exciting to absolutely a top four edge to your team. And, and we don't think the Ravens are going to be as bad as they looked at times year. I don't love it. I, I can, I can get as far as to say I like it for Baltimore because Lamar Jackson gives you a chance to be competitive if you get this defense back to the level it was at a couple years ago. Like, we know the Ravens are good enough to, to be a big factor in the playoffs. Potentially even have home field advantage throughout. Like, that's not a pipe dream. But two first round picks is such a lofty price to pay. And it's funny, I came to the opposite conclusion from the same amount of data as Derek because it's like, oh, Lamar Jackson is, is 29, 30 years old. This is the time to go for it. And I'm like, I don't know, man. This feels like the Time where you want to have assets on hand to replenish things around Lamar Jackson. Like, if something goes wrong, if, if the offensive line isn't up to snuff. And for, to be clear, also, we don't know what the Ravens are going to wind up looking like yet. We still have the vast majority of free agency in the draft to go. If your offensive line is still a problem point. If you're receiving weapons are a problem, which, spoiler alert. They kind of have been for a long time. If the Ravens can't get all of that right, all of a sudden you have that fewer resources and none of the big ones to fix it with. And when lamar Jackson is 30 years old, that makes me a little bit nervous. Like, you are putting a huge amount of onus on Max Crosby to be that dude with a capital D. Like, if he's pretty good or like, yeah, like he's. He's still. Then that's, that's not good enough. Like, it's got to be defensive player of the year caliber type stuff to make this pay off. And it's not to say that it can't, but I think I said this last week, like, you're just, you're raising the threshold that much higher. And the other part of that too, you mentioned is other teams were willing to do this and the Ravens leapfrogged them. I think you're right. Like, that is a. I think desperation comes with a negative connotation, but they were very adamant, very, very adamant to try to get this thing over the finish line. And it's like I said, I think it's a high threshold, it's a high bar to clear when you're doing this type of stuff. And it makes me pretty nervous.
- [14:17]
Robert Mays
The price is the price, right? I mean, if a team is willing to give up a first and a second and like, you want them, like, the price is the price.
- [14:23]
Derek Classen
But should you be willing to beat that? Like, should you. Should you be willing to beat the Dallas Cowboys in a bidding war? That would make me nervous. If I were Ravens, I would be
- [14:34]
Dave Hellman
like to have, I think, especially again, when you consider mentors defense money, it's right. It's not my money. But here's the other thing. I think I'm a little more like with team building, like, scared money don't make money. Like, I'm going do shit like this. I think. And especially on defense, when you have like true field tilters like Roquan Smith, like Max Crosby, it just like changes the math for you on Defense, we saw this with them before. Obviously they have Kyle Hamilton as well. Like when you have enough of those guys who are field tilting players and if you have one of them at all three levels, if you get that on top of like Lamar Jackson even playing at 90% of whatever his peak was because last year he was like, you have a team that is again the top of the afc, like I, this probably does hurt them for whatever they might look like in 2028 because you're obviously taking away first round picks. But what is the chance that either of those first round picks is even 75% of the player that Max Crosby is going to be for the next three years? And also money wise, if mask, if Max Crosby explodes, I think they can get out of this deal in like a year or two and it doesn't really hurt them cap wise. Like I don't think that this is that bad for them.
- [15:39]
Derek Classen
I want to take the opportunity to point that out. And it's another layer of this too. And I think it's only fair to say because the Ravens are one of those teams, they just, they have a great reputation for good reason. They get, I think a lot of the things they do tend to get seen through rose colored glasses. Cause you can see the logic in the process of it all. Robert, you already said it, but you wind up in this place because you haven't been drafting as well as the reputation suggests that you do. And, and I think that's worth pointing because every draft weekend the Ravens take a guy with a name that we know who's not supposed to be there and everybody freaks out about it. And to be fair to them, sometimes that's Kyle Hamilton and they have definitely made some great picks. But you don't do this if you've been drafting as well over the last three, five years as the reputation suggests that you do.
- [16:33]
Robert Mays
Derek pointing out that you're seeking out field tilters on defense, that to me speaks to the larger conversation about what this means for the Ravens and their overall construction at the end of this process. We're now at a place where for years and years and years, when the Ravens were real in 2023, let's just say 2023, when the Ravens felt like their peak was as good as any other team in the NFL other than Lamar Jackson. How many like superstar level players were on the Ravens? Roquan and Kyle Hamilton. Kyle Hamilton was kind of ascending to that place, right? Like on offense, they were the most efficient offense in football that year. Excuse me, 2024 they're the most efficient offensive football. Let's do 2024. They're the most efficient offensive football in 2024. And it was Lamar and, you know, maybe Tyler Linderbaum. But for the most part, it's not a star laden team. That's how the Ravens have been competitive consistently for a while here, where you look across the roster and you're like, ah, there's not a lot of star power, but there's not a lot of holes either. Like, it's just well constructed and, you know, there are a lot of contributing pieces and it all kind of makes sense together. This move specifically is pushing you in a slightly different direction where that type of build, where you were solid across the board, but the peaks at the roster maybe weren't that high, never really got you there. And now you're at a place where this becomes very quickly, very top heavy football team. If you're looking at 2027, Lamar, Roquam, Matabk, which is an entirely different conversation. Max Crosby, Kyle Hamilton, and then we don't want to throw Ronnie Stanley in there as well. But even if you didn't, so Jackson, Smith, Matabk, Crosby, Hamilton, you have five guys who are gonna be making $26 million a year against the cap. You have two guys making between 24 and $10 million a year. That's. That's what the roster has become to an extent when you do something like this. And part of the reason is you feel like you're pushed to this place because the roster isn't quite as good top to bottom as it used to be. But this comes with risks. It's a different sort of mindset that comes with its own set of problems. And now you're in a place where after doing this like Dave kind of alluded to, there's still a lot of holes on this team. You're probably not bringing back Tyler Linderbaum. You need at least one new guard. You probably need another pass catcher. You need another starting safety. You probably need, if not a starting outside corner, then some depth at outside corner. The mat BK question looms. If he comes back, then your interior feels a lot better. But this is a team that it's not Baltimore Ravens roster where you're looking at it on March 1 and thinking they don't really have that many holes, they can kind of do whatever they want. That's not what this is. And so to see this type of a Baltimore team make this type of deal, I think it feels new. Coming from two different directions.
- [19:20]
Derek Classen
The fun Thing is the quickness with which things can change. I mean, there's a lot of smoke and speculation about a Lamar extension. We've talked about it. If you can get him extended and free up that money to suspend a little bit more than you might, then, then maybe the whole picture for this thing changes. And for that matter, we talked about it at the beginning of the off season. If Namdi Matabk comes back with a clean bill of health, I'm just going full Derek and I'll just jump right on the bandwagon and not even think about it. So there are some pretty big variables here that can still change. But right now, as we sit here on Sunday morning, I'm like, this is exciting, but I can't get all the way to love mere merely like the
- [20:03]
Dave Hellman
thing I'll say doesn't. And maybe I'm coping because I already like the deal anyway. Doesn't them doing the deal feel weirdly optimistic for the Matabk thing? Like, I think if they thought that he wasn't going to play for them, they might be in more of a spot where it's like, okay, maybe we do need to stick, take a step back here. But if they think that he might be ready to go, then it's like, well, why don't we just load up and get another Max Crosby and throw it in?
- [20:26]
Derek Classen
I love. We just keep, we keep having different reactions to the same stuff. Because I'm sitting here thinking, if they felt really good about Matabk, they're like, okay, we've got an all pro guy coming back to this line. We don't need to do anything nuts. We can probably draft or make some middle of the pack signings that would get this thing up to snuff if Namdi is there and trading for Max Crosby to me might signal, hey, we need a do everything guy who can wreck shit on his own no matter what's going on with Matabk. So, and to be clear, I have no idea what is going on.
- [21:02]
Robert Mays
That's where I sit too. Even going to speculate, I have absolutely no idea. When you look at the finances of it, they're currently $12 million over the cap. If you look at over the cap though, they're going to do something to Lamar's contract, right? Like, it's whether if he doesn't get an extension, then they're probably going to restructure it. If they take it down to zero, they would have like $26 million in cap space. There's some other things they can do as well. And I'll be curious, do they touch Crosby's contract? Because as Derek alluded to, there's no guaranteed money left on that deal, I think, at all. And so if they want to just restructure that thing, it's $30 million in base salary. That'll give them a little bit more W. And again, it feels like you're kind of compromising on the way that you want to do things on a couple different levels here. But maybe we're just in that place where they understand they have to do that because if they can free up a decent amount of cap space, then you can find a starter at center, starter at guard. You go out and find a safety, maybe a corner. Like they might have the financial flexibility to shop in that middle class tier of players to fill some of those holes. But it's just a different conversation about the Baltimore Ravens than the one I thought we'd be having. The last point here I think I want to make is that some people are going to look at the Cowboys being willing to deal a one and a two for Max Crosby a year after trading Micah Parsons and be like, what the hell? You didn't want to keep Micah, but you were willing to do something like this for a guy who's three, four years older. Two things I would say about that, like we talked about with the contract, because that contract already exists, the cash payout is just going to be a lot different with Micah Parson than it is with Max Crosby. I think with Micah, the first two years in cash was like 85 million. With Max, I think it's 60 million. And so that just gives you a big chunk of change to work with, to spend on other players if you're Dallas or if you're a team like Baltimore here. And the other thing, and this came up a lot in conversations with coaches, for personnel people at the combine consistently. And it wasn't even about Micah necessarily. It touched on a bunch of different players. But I think from people in our seats, we underrate how important it is for teams and for people in those buildings, for the guys they pay the most amount of money to be the guys who set the culture in those buildings. And I think with Dallas, whether you like it or not, they did not see Micah Parsons as that sort of guy. Max Crosby is that sort of guy, Matt. Max Crosby is the sort of guy where if you're paying him $30 million a year and you watch the effort and everything else, you're like, that's who we want to on that side of the ball. And again, I'm not sure how much, how much that should play a factor, whether we over index for that and how teams make these decisions. But if you're trying to compare the Crosby situation with the Michael Parsons situation, I think that element of it at least needs to be acknowledged to understand why Dallas would do A and not B.
- [23:45]
Derek Classen
Never underestimate the importance of relationships inside the building. And if I haven't been clear enough about that, I apologize because yeah, the, the relationships with Micah in Dallas were not good by the end clear. And I mean it doesn't get to that point if they're better. But I will say in defense of the Cowboys, and it's a moot point because it didn't happen. You can't decide who wins until you see the big picture two, three, four years from now. But like if the Cowboys had managed to trade Micah and use those resources to get Kenny Clark, Quinn and Williams, Max Crosby and still hold on to at least one first round pick and not be without first round picks in any of those years, you can't say that they would have been the winners in that situation. But I would have called that pretty nice. Like I would have looked at that and been like, oh, they kind of cooked here. But they would have given away two
- [24:41]
Robert Mays
twos in that scenario though. I mean they're.
- [24:43]
Dave Hellman
They still more than they got.
- [24:45]
Robert Mays
Yeah.
- [24:47]
Derek Classen
To come out with Quinn and Williams and Max Crosby and not have gotten rid of a one to do it though is, I mean I think if it weren't the Cowboys, I be saying some pretty nice stuff about that.
- [24:58]
Robert Mays
I think it's more so just that again I, I've said this a bunch about the Quinn Williams stuff. The Quinn Williams train wasn't free, you know, like that you're still paying a lot to get those guys even if you can still hang on to your first round picks as part of the calculus. All right, we're going to take a quick break and then we're going to come back and chat about the other edge rushing move that happened over the last couple weeks.
- [25:18]
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- [28:55]
Dave Hellman
And they should have, right? Like, I, I kind of thought it would have been fun to see Khalil Mack on like a different contender. But in my mind the Chargers are still a roster that is obviously going to be a playoff team. And so him just kind of returning there, keeping the, keeping the stable on defense, that that's a playoff team. Like, come on.
- [29:09]
Derek Classen
Like that, that's a playoff team.
- [29:12]
Robert Mays
No Jesse Mentor. You know, I just, you know, it's worth having a conversation.
- [29:16]
Dave Hellman
I trust the, the Jim and Justin offense over there.
- [29:20]
Robert Mays
The only reason that my response to this wasn't just wholly positive is kind of like, ah, it's fun to watch players change teams like that. That's the only element of this that just doesn't look at it and be like, good for them, good for him.
- [29:33]
Derek Classen
No, that's why like I had the same reaction as Derek, but it made me laugh when I was examining it. Cause I saw the news and I was like, oh, that's kind of boring, isn't it? And then I thought about it and I was like, Khalil Mack resigned with a team that's been at the playoffs two years in a row. Like if he had, if he had gone to a different team that's been at the playoffs two years in a row, I would think it was very exciting. So good for good for the Chargers, even if it's kind of anticlimactic on Monday.
- [29:57]
Robert Mays
And they had arguably one of the biggest edge needs in the entire league. If you currently look at their roster. I mean they had, we talked about this last week. I mean it's Tuli Tuple and not much else. With Odafa OA and Khalil Mack hitting free agency and they've got more money to spend. We'll get to the other kind of move that they made over the last few days here in a second we talk about the interior offensive line market, but even with Biotish in the fold, even with Khalil Mack in the fold, this is a team that is still going to be able to spend. Whether it's an edge rusher, interior offensive line, they've got a lot of money to throw around. A team that has less money to throw around, but nonetheless kind of started the domino effect we're going to see with these interior offensive line markets. Connor McGovern signs back with the Buffalo Bills. Four years, 52 million. I believe it's $32 million guaranteed. You look at that contract by AAV, it slots behind only Creed Humphrey and Cam Jurgens. Now with Drew Dalman out of the mix, RIP and not surprised, you know, based on this market, how many teams might have been interested in him. But still, Derek, $13 million a year for Conor McGovern is a healthy number as we kind of kick off the spending with this center group in the interior offensive line group in general.
- [31:06]
Dave Hellman
The Connor McGovern deal is like this to me. I know we tried to put him on 8 million other teams because there's 8 million teams that need a center and he was, you know, other than Tyler Leonard bomb going to be the best one on the market.
- [31:16]
Robert Mays
That's why he's getting $13,000,000 a year.
- [31:18]
Dave Hellman
Exactly. As well he's getting $13 million a year. But I, I love this for Buffalo because to me, if you're going to one, they are losing offensive line coach Aaron Cromer, like he left. And I think to me, if you are promoting the offensive coordinator to be your head coach, I think it helps him a lot if you can keep one of the pillars of your offense in place in your center and like take some of the mental load off of the offense a little bit and let Joe Brady do some of the head coaching stuff that is now going to be on his plate. And so I think keeping continuity there was, I think if they had to pick between one of these two interior offensive linemen, like regardless of which one you think is the better player purely on quality, McGovern was probably more important to keeping their like, overall continuity and level of play.
- [32:02]
Robert Mays
You lose two starters and your offensive line coach two starters, including the center in a given off season, it's a lot of stability that's walking out the door. And so being able to maintain some of that while losing Cromer. I completely agree. And we can have a conversation about which of those guys is a better player or more Valuable in a vacuum. David Edwards is going to get more money in free agency because he's a guard. But I always, and Barnwell would just hammer this into my brain over and over and over again. Ten years ago when we were having these conversations and he was always right and I was always wrong. He would talk about the multi year outlook for guys when it comes to how much they're worth in free agency. And we're going back a while now with David Edwards, but Conor McGovern signed as a starting guard for the Bills when he got there in free agency a couple years ago. David Edwards signed for a few million bucks a year as a depth piece and now is going to be getting $15 million a year on a third contract. And so I think that on multiple different levels, the fact that McGovern is the one that they wanted to shell out for at the end of this, Dave, I don't necessarily find surprise.
- [33:04]
Dave Hellman
No.
- [33:04]
Derek Classen
And I think it's an expensive win, but for all the reasons y' all just outlined, I think it's, it's a win for the Bills that maybe this is more a perception thing, but it just feels like they needed it. Like you're cutting guys left and right on your defense to get your finances right. Some of that justified. People have been crushing the bills for the D.J. moore trade for the last couple days. And to get, get one of your two guys because, yeah, like you lose both of them, I do think that is a very big deal for the Buffalo offense and to retain the center who has so much to do with setting protections and helping the quarterback and kind of being the quarterback of your offensive line. Typically, if there's a guy that you were going to hold onto as a team that has a decent amount of retooling to do, I think it's a big, big win. And again, maybe this is a perception thing, but it feels like a culture win to get it done before the market opens as well. To like go to a player that knows that he's about to hit the market and be like, can we get something done? What's a good price? And the player agrees to it without needing to hit the market and have competing teams send in offers for him. Like, clearly Connor McGovern likes Buffalo enough to want to be there and want to be part of this coaching change with Joe Brady. Like I said, maybe that's more perception than anything. But from the outside, it feels like it matters to me that you're able to hang on to that guy three or four days ahead of Time and before he's in line to to have a bidding war for his services. Cause clearly that would have happened based on the price that the Bills gave him and what we know Tyler Linderbaum's going to be worth in a few days. He probably could have made more money if, if that was what really mattered to him. But resigning with Buffalo was, was something he clearly prioritized.
- [34:52]
Robert Mays
I, I know it's tempting to like all over the Bill's offense and what they were at the end of the year. The Bills finished fourth in offensive DVOA last season. Fourth.
- [35:01]
Dave Hellman
It's them. The three superstar quarterbacks are in a spot where if they don't have the best offense in the league every single week, we're like, what is wrong with them? And that was what the, what it was with the Bills.
- [35:12]
Robert Mays
Obviously there were issues with this team. We talked about it. The pass catching group by the end of the season was just nightmarish. But now when you bring back Conor McGovern and you trade for DJ Moore, we can hem and haw about the price and I totally understand that. I think it's an aggressive trade, the one that they pulled off for DJ Moore. But if you just look at the roster right now, you essentially have the 2025 Bills offense that finished fourth and offensive DVOA with the DJ Moore and you have to figure out a starting left guard, like if they can somehow piece that together with a guy who's maybe going to make half as much money as David Edwards will in free agency and you can get hit passable play at that spot, that's really now the only piece that you're turning over. An offense that was very good and now DJ Moore is in the fold. So this sort of move, when you just look at the roster and the depth chart in totality, it's like, all right man, like I can get behind like what this thing looks like now when you have all of the good elements for the most part of this thing coming back and you add if an expensive player in DJ Moore, one you absolutely did not have. When you think about the skill set you're adding to the offense, this to
- [36:17]
Dave Hellman
me feels like yeah, if they go and sign like Chris Paul to play left guard or something, just a guy who can get it done, and then you have Dj Moore who can actually play wide receiver and win some one on ones in a way you couldn't before, it's like the offense is probably better.
- [36:30]
Robert Mays
All right, that's a fair point. But that brings me to the next deal I want to talk about because I think we're at a point where Chris Paul might be a little bit more expensive than you want him to be. Packers resigning Sean Ryan per Ian Rappaport, three years, $33 million on a deal that can get to 39 million for Sean Ryan. We'll see about guarantees. You know, the packers are one of those teams where the guarantees don't go quite as far into the deal as some other teams like Thearon Banks contract last year is a perfect example where the AAV is like 19 million. But if you actually look under the hood, it's not quite as strong of a deal as some other contracts with that AAV at the position might be. But nonetheless, even if it can be a tiny bit misleading, three years, $33 million for Sean Ryan. I think it kind of speaks to what we were dancing around with the interior offensive line market last week, which was these guys on second contracts that are hitting free agency. Like if they can chew gum and block somebody at the same time, like they're going to be getting way more money than you probably think. And I think that Sean Ryan, Dave, is kind of like the first shot across the bow here when we think about what that market is going to look like over the next week week.
- [37:40]
Derek Classen
Which let me, as the non Bears fan, say this so that it sounds objective. My main takeaway from a lot of what's happened over the last three days is, damn, the Bears got some really good intel when they decided to trade a future five for Garrett Bradbury on Friday. Because that deal comes down and you know, I spent 30 minutes on Thursday trying to convince you they should go after Tyler Linderbaum. That deal comes down and it's like, well what are they doing? Like these better centers are about to hit the market and you can do much better than Garrett Bradbury, even if he had a nice season for the Patriots. Like he's only under contract for one more year. What's going on and all in quick succession. I don't think we mentioned Tyler B. Otish is a charger now for $10 million a year. I think our guess was maybe like 7. And Connor McGovern is a bill again for $13 million a year. I think our Guess was like 10. And now Sean Ryan's getting $11 million a year for or however the math winds up going. But a $33 million contract. So I look at that and I'm like ah, trading a future five for a serviceable guy with one year left on his deal. Not A bad bit of business for the Chicago Bears if you're trying to stay out of what is clearly going to be a very expensive market. If this weekend is any indicator, I'll say this.
- [38:57]
Robert Mays
The, The Biotish and McGovern contracts are about what I expected them to be. So if you look at those two prices, like, I thought McGovern would come in at that sort of number if Linderbaum was going to make 20 million a year. And when we were talking about Tyler Linderbaum on the show last week, I said it over and over and over again. I'd rather have Biotish for half. I'd rather have beat us for half. It's exactly half of $20 million. And so those contracts came in about where I thought they'd be. But these are guys that have multiple years of proven track records as starters. Sean Ryan started seven games for the packers last year at center. And so that's the one that I feel like is just a little bit richer than I expected it to be. The market overall with the Biotish and the McGovern deals, that settled about where I thought and I'll be honest with you, the, the Bradbury thing, I think given the market constraints and given the spot that you're in and given the skill set that you're seeking out. I joked about this when the deal happened with you guys, but it almost feels like the, the Peter Parker glasses meme like Tyler Linder bomb and Gary Bradberry like that that's where we're at. Like they're very and even Dolman. Like if you look at the mock draftable like spider charts for centers, Dolman and Garrett Bradbury, the two most similar when it comes to like, size, athletic ability, everything else. So them seeking this out is not surprising. I, I, I'm fine with this being the outcome. But I'll tell you this. When I saw the 3 years 30 million for biotish with the Chargers, I was like, God damn it. That's. That was it like that. That was, that was the sweet spot, man. Like, and the Chargers pulling that off again, a a good player a like clears the bar. Absolutely. You can win with him starting center as an above average starter to get that for 10 million before the market even opens knocked you into any sort of compact situation because he was cut like that is a win for the Chargers. I to see that for them. And I'm surprised that Washington didn't try to get at least something for him. And when it comes to a pick because there was clearly a healthy market for biatish and that doesn't surprise me at all.
- [40:51]
Dave Hellman
Yeah, I don't know what that was about, about them just cutting him instead of trying to get something out when you knew like six teams were going to try to need a new center this year. Like that just.
- [40:59]
Robert Mays
He had three visits immediately before the weekend was even out.
- [41:02]
Dave Hellman
He had three visits set up exactly. Like, the only thing I find interesting and not in a bad way about the Chargers signing Biotish is I think Mike McDaniel's offenses have been a little bit more used to having guys who are a little bit smaller, a little bit leaner, a little bit quicker. And Biotish is not that. Biotish is all of 315 pounds and like a more burly, kind of knock him around type of center. So I'm just kind of curious to see what the run game ends up looking like for that reason. But obviously I trust that that offensive staff is going to, to get it to work out. The Bradbury one is funny. The more I, when I looked at it initially I was like, like players not good enough. Like, like Bradbury's just not good enough. But then I'm like, dude, he's playing next to maybe the best guard duo in the league.
- [41:42]
Robert Mays
That's it.
- [41:43]
Dave Hellman
It'll probably be fine. Like I, I was like, he's not that if he's center 22, but he's playing next to the best guard duo in the league. It's, it's probably going to turn out pretty good.
- [41:51]
Robert Mays
I think it's just covering your ass. Like I think that's what this is where you get a guy. It's a $5.5.7 million against the cap this year for Garrett Bradbury. And so you're looking at that compared to the deals that you're going to have to sign guys to in free agency. And again, I assume they'll point on day two in the draft or maybe even a little bit later. Dag, Day two is probably rich. Consider. I know I've looked at the draft setters a million times. I know that they're probably like outside the top 100 in the, in the fourth round. But I assume that the Bears will address this at some point with a lot of the mid day two to mid round picks that they have in this draft. But now that guy doesn't have to hit for you. That's the whole point of doing something like this is like if we have to get by with Garrett Bradbury for a year at center because of the quality of the other guys on your offensive line because of the scheme and being able to I think plan around some of his limitations. I think that you absolutely can live with Garrett Bradbury for a single year and that that's why I like this move at the price it costs them.
- [42:49]
Derek Classen
I deeply love it. And like I said, if I were the Bears, I'd rather have just knocked that out for a small price than venture into these bidding war waters which to go back to the original point, I get it if it's a little rich.
- [43:04]
Robert Mays
But.
- [43:04]
Derek Classen
But in Sean Ryan, a guy who can serviceably start for you and can play as many as three positions on the open market, that's probably worth million dollars. Worth a million dollars. It's worth $11 million. So I mean, great, great for him.
- [43:21]
Robert Mays
The last thing I'd say about the Bears and stop gaps. The other bit of news that I think is should be of note to them. Taylor Decker asking for his release from the Lions potentially being on the market, obviously not the player he was a couple years ago has been dealing with tons of health concerns. I mean there's a reason that he was openly talking about retirement in December. But if you're a team like the Bears in the situation that they're in, it's very similar to the Garrett Bradbury conversation where it's like we did not expect on December 15, we did not expect to need a new left tackle and a new center for the 2026 season. Let's just do what we can to get by for this year and then we'll be able to address it. It Taylor Decker at the right price and the connection with Ben Johnson, all of that, I think that is a reasonable solution to that problem if he does end up hitting the market. So I mean he would make sense for the Bears. I'm sure he'd make sense for a couple different teams that just need a stopgap player at that position. But 100% worth monitoring. And now if you're the Lions, you're going to need to be relying on that offensive line development pipeline that you were trying to put in place a couple years ago. You know they drafted Giovanni Manu, they traded up to get him. That was clearly kind of a multi year plan where he's raw. Can we get him to the place he needs to be when Decker moves on? That time is now Derek. We we the hourglasses run out here when it comes to the Lions needing to figure out who the next steps are for pretty much all of that offensive line except for Penn A that really drove who they were a couple years ago.
- [44:49]
Dave Hellman
Yeah. Like, in my mind now Taylor Decker is going to be like what Jonah Williams has been the past couple of years, where it's just like a guy who is barely passable starter. He can just get by for us and that'll be enough. Which the Bears at left tackle. I think they would absolutely take that with the Lions. I'm curious they if they believe in Manu enough, if they think he's developed enough to go and start, or do they want to flip Penne Sewell to left tackle, which is like, I don't
- [45:13]
Robert Mays
know, unacceptable to me?
- [45:14]
Dave Hellman
Yeah, I would not want to do that. Like, I understand. You can see the logic, right, of like, you know, left tackle is in theory more valuable. You know. You know, we've seen certain guys do that before, but I just. He's already the best right tackle in the league and like a true difference maker for you. You don't want to take him from an A plus player to like even an A minus or B plus player. Like, I would just rather keep him where he he's at.
- [45:35]
Robert Mays
I think the thing with this, is it potentially not even about a commentary on is he ready? I think it's my bigger question is, is this a move about him being ready or is this a move purely about money? Seems like this move is mostly about money. And so does that send you to a place as we head toward the season here where you don't love your options, but you also couldn't live with Taylor Decker at that price anymore?
- [45:57]
Derek Classen
My only pushback on that Derek would be, I said all the same stuff about Tristan Wurfs when the Bucks moved him to the left side and it worked out awesome. And you know when you have a freak like that, those are the types of guys you can typically ask to make the switch and have it pay off. So I'm. I got that in the back of my mind. Like, I typically agree with you that I don't want to ask guys to move and potentially get worse at at a position. But Panay Sewell might be the type of freak who can do it and all of a sudden look like a top five left tackle.
- [46:28]
Dave Hellman
That is a good point. Tristan Worst did make the switch in like, Tristan Worst made that look better.
- [46:33]
Derek Classen
He made it look effortless. He's like, what? It' hard to just flip across the line and play the toughest position in on the offensive line and be an all pro at it. Says who?
- [46:43]
Robert Mays
Little bit of breaking news as we're recording this. It's 11:51am Central Time. By the way, as we're kind of sorting through everything that's happening here, Justin Stroud was about to hit free agency back to the Broncos. Three years, $18 million for Justin Stroud. It's interesting, was the exact deal that Alex Singleton signed in 2023 to come to the Broncos was three years, 18 million. So obviously with, you know, inflation, it's a slight step down from there. They're really, I guess the closest comparison would probably be the deal that Malik Harrison signed for the Steelers last year, which was two years, 10 million. It was $5 million a year. That's kind of what this feels like, Derek. Like, if that's now the market for third linebackers, that's what Stroud kind of is, is for the Broncos, where Malik Harrison is a situational kind of guy. He's not going to be able to play for you every single down. Stroud is a fantastic blitzer, but, you know, his skill set is fairly limited when it comes to being a do it all kind of guy. So slotting in like, about for like where a guy like Harrison would be with cap inflation, I actually kind of think that makes sense when you consider a market for somebody like this.
- [47:52]
Dave Hellman
And I think this, to me too, is like the type of contract that covers your ass in the sense of like, like it's not an obscene amount of money to pay for a quality move around third linebacker. But also in the event that they can't get something with done with Alex Singleton and they don't like whoever they end up drafting to replace him, he can just start and we can get by with it and it'll be fine. And that's a decent amount of money to pay there. So that feels just like a. We're familiar with him. We're going to keep it consistent. If he's a little bit of an expensive third linebacker, that's fine. And if he's our second linebacker, that's also fine.
- [48:22]
Robert Mays
Speaking of that tier of linebacker, it's a step up, but I think a lot of the same thinking applies to this deal that we're going to talk about now. Packers trade for Zaire Franklin Deal Kobe Wooden to the Colts for Zaire Franklin. You look at the remaining money on Franklin's deal, it's essentially two years, $15 million, which again, you're comparing that to what Stroud just got and I assume Green Bay part of the reason they're willing to do something like this. Talking about the linebacker version of the Garrett Bradbury sort of contract, it's that well, we know what Quay Walker is going to cost. He came back to us with a number. Not sure we're willing to go there. There's a chance that this move for Zaire Franklin, Derek, is maybe half of what Quay Walker is going to get on the open market. And I think you could make an argument that with Jonathan Gannon was with Quay or with Zaire Franklin in Indianapolis. There's some familiarity there. I think as a we just want stability and we want it at the right price sort of move. I can totally understand this for Green Bay.
- [49:17]
Dave Hellman
I actually love this move. You know, I still have some questions about like who the hell is playing defensive tackle for this team?
- [49:23]
Robert Mays
And obviously that's where we're going next year.
- [49:25]
Dave Hellman
Right. And they're, they're changing things around a little bit scheme wise. Like I think they need a guy who's a little bit more of a nose guard than, than some of the other guys, but they still are so thin that I think them. It's hard for them to say that they can afford trading away anybody in that room. But again, if you are trying to save money at linebacker, which if Quay Walker's number gets up to 14, 15, $16 million a year. Zaire Franklin is not quite the level of player that Walker can be at his peak. But I think he's a really good hammer like between the tackles. And so you're going to lose maybe a little bit of something in coverage. But I think as like an enforcer downhill between the tackles. Pretty nice player to pair with Edrin Cooper. So I'm, I'm kind of into it as like their best veteran answer to replacing Quay Walker. Like they could have done it in the draft there, maybe could have signed some other guys. But I think this is actually a really good answer.
- [50:13]
Derek Classen
Very similar to the Garrett Bradbury trade. I love a creative answer to a problem where like I don't think Zaire Franklin is as good or at least his potential at this point in his career is not as high as Koi Walker's, but what are the prices? And considering what I think co Walker's going to be worth trading a player for a guy who can play and occasionally at a high level. We'll see what's around him by the time we get there. But I feel fine plugging Zaire Franklin into that and knowing the baseline's probably going to be pretty good and you didn't have to give up a ton to get him and now you can avoid bidding for higher priced players next week. I think it's great.
- [50:53]
Robert Mays
Zaire Franklin's going to be 30, right? It's not like Zaire Franklin is a hundred years old. Like, he should still have a little bit left in the tank, especially on the deal that you're getting.
- [51:01]
Dave Hellman
I think that's good because we've, how many times have we said like this roster, oh, it's so young, all this stuff. I actually think there's a little bit of value of getting guys who are, they've done this a little bit longer, they're a little bit more mature, they're a little bit more fat. Especially in that position, especially at that position when the guy next to him is like 24 years old and still a little bit young.
- [51:19]
Derek Classen
I'm not saying you're wrong. I understand the logic completely. But I still, it's funny the, the things we talk ourselves into where it's like, damn it, we're too young. We need a, we need a 30 year old in here. Like that. Typically the opposite of what we say about all roster building. But I, I see the logic.
- [51:37]
Robert Mays
All right, before we move on, we're going to take one more quick break.
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Dave Hellman
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- [53:39]
Robert Mays
The last kind of headline grabbing move that I want to talk about here before we get out the Eagles give a contract extension to Jordan Davis three years. $78 million for Jordan Davis. That's a $26 million AAV with $65 million guaranteed. Reportedly very similar to the deal that Milton Williams signed last off season. Exact same AAV guarantees come in about the same number. Milton Williams deal was longer, but I mean you're looking at it. Only Chris Jones right now has a higher AV among interior defensive linemen than Jordan Davis just got from the Eagles. And even if you account for some cap increase in cap inflation, that's a really healthy deal. And I don't know Derek, I mean I can understand it based on the player he was last year that Jordan Davis is commanding a lot of money. But you rewind like a year ago, the idea that we'd be having this conversation on March 8th of 2025 and Jordan Davis would be worth $26 million a year I think really speaks to the strides we saw from him as a player and just in how often he was on the field last year.
- [54:44]
Dave Hellman
That's the biggest thing is that he was on the field more. Like I think when we all saw him in college we were like, oh my God, there are just not very many def tackles built like this. But even in college there were some. He was maybe a little bit too big. Some of the conditioning issues you were like how long can he sustain this? And that was for the first two or three years of his career. True. Like he was really good for the 40% of snaps that he could play. But now him bumping up to 65%. I think he was a better pass rusher this year than he had been at any other point in his career and so I think that helps you also like small thing for him, he was kick ass on special teams, like blocked a number of kicks for them this year, which is a nice little bump.
- [55:20]
Robert Mays
He was just the odds for you bringing that up and not Dave in this conversation were off the board in
- [55:25]
Derek Classen
Vegas, I would have gotten there.
- [55:27]
Dave Hellman
Yeah, I'm exactly. I'm sure he would have. And then the last thing that I would say too, and you know, we kind of talked about this a little bit with Crosby and Micah. The fact that we are getting so many swirling rumors about are the Eagles going to trade Jalen Carter, are they not going to pay Jalen Carter and you go and pay an obscene amount of money to Jordan Davis. That says something to me. That says something.
- [55:48]
Derek Classen
Oh, that's such a good shout. If, if you're.
- [55:50]
Robert Mays
What does this mean?
- [55:51]
Derek Classen
If you're not. If you're not watching, if you're listening to this, Robert is doing the wind horn horsed. What does this mean? Fingers.
- [55:59]
Robert Mays
And what does this mean if they're the fact that they did this before extending Jalen Carter and now you're attributing this amount of money to your defense? I think they, the reports are that they might want to bring Jalen Phillips back, which is going to be a really healthy number. Somebody's going to be the odd man out here. And Jeremy Fowler from ESPN reported. I, I can't keep the timeline straight. It's either last night or this morning that teams have called about Jalen Carter, and that's not necessarily surprising when you see this sort of team deal. There were some reports that they had made him available in the Max Crosby conversations that the Eagles might have been having. So Carter's extension eligible after his third year, his fifth year option would cost $27 million because of where he was drafted and because he made a Pro Bowl. He's coming off a season where. And this is what worries me when you have a procedure on both of your shoulders during a season. I mean, he was open about this. Apparently he couldn't do a push up at points this year. And you saw that. I mean, it really kind of came to. To the nadir of. It was when you watched him play against the Bears in that Black Friday game, he just couldn't play. I mean, you just saw the fact that he just could not be out there. So how much of an issue is that? How much do the Eagles know about that? So, Dave, there clearly is some smoke here with Jalen Carter and how available he might be, and that throws a wrench into the interior defensive line market this off season in particular, where there just are not a lot of guys available.
- [57:22]
Derek Classen
It's very classic Howie Roseman being ahead of the problem. And maybe, maybe Jalen Carter were to get dealt imminently, or maybe this is just anticipating what could be a problem a year from now. But you get Jordan Davis under contract, all of a sudden that's a little bit less scary. And I know they have different roles, obviously they do different things, but just having that piece of your defensive line. And if you're banking on Jordan Davis continuing to be this guy, which I just wanted to say what a cool story that I think, think probably went under noticed on a larger level just because the Eagles were a super frustrating team. And typically when you're talking about the Eagles, it's like, why aren't they better? But Jordan Davis kind of reinventing himself into a peloton guy and just being the slimmest.
- [58:14]
Robert Mays
Listen.
- [58:14]
Derek Classen
6, 6, 300 and whatever pound defensive tackle. Yeah, Robert, you can relate to that.
- [58:19]
Robert Mays
You don't have to tell me.
- [58:22]
Derek Classen
And like, it's, it's badass because there was, there was so much talk about him as a prospect, like, oh, he's too big to stay on the field. He's going to eat his way out of the league or just be too heavy to be a viable NFL player. And he's just a monster now. Like, he is a svelte nose tackle, which isn't supposed to happen. And he was phenomenal last year. Like I said, I think it kind of. It got buried under the angst about the Eagles, but a very, very cool story. Happy for him. And now, even if they're different players, like I said, it's. It's less intimidating trying to replace Jalen Carter if he's there doing his thing in the middle of that line. So not to say Carter's future in Philly is over, but it, like I said, it's a hallmark of Howie Roseman to be like 8 to 12 months ahead of what might happen. And that's kind of what this looks like.
- [59:13]
Robert Mays
Peloton has to fold this into their marketing in some way.
- [59:16]
Derek Classen
They should.
- [59:17]
Robert Mays
It's. You use peloton make 26 million.
- [59:20]
Derek Classen
As soon as that video came out of him talking about, he's like, yeah, like, I already worked out today. We had practice and I'm just gonna go hop on my peloton. I was like, well, that's, that's marketing right there. Let's get that into a commercial.
- [59:32]
Robert Mays
Last big deal that I wanted to hit before we got outta here. It feels like this happened 10 days ago, but I think it was on Friday. Cam Curl back with the Los Angeles Rams. Three years, 36 million, $24 million guaranteed. Not surprising when you think about the Rams having some financial wiggle room. The fan fact that now bringing him back, Derek, you got to feel pretty good about what that secondary is going to look like. You have Quinn Lake at safety if that's where you want to play him. You know, obviously we're going to have some flexibility there with Trent McDuffie, but now you got Lake, Trent McDuffie, Cam Curl all in the fold here. The interesting thing to me is more so what this means about the market at the position, because there were some questions about what that was going to look like. I mean, we talked about it a lot last week, but if you look at a lot of the outlets that were trying to guess these things, there was a wide range for safety in particular. I think Cam Curl is very indicative of that. The PFF numbers had him at like 9ish million dollars a year. I think Daniel Popper for our guy, Daniel Popper here at the Athletic had him closer, like 14 or 15. It sits in at 12. And I think that is going to be a number that's worth keeping in mind when you look at what some of these other safeties are potentially going to make next week.
- [60:43]
Derek Classen
All right.
- [60:43]
Dave Hellman
And him getting 12, who I believe now a third contract player for him, he like, he's a little bit older than some of the other guys that might sign. I think some of the younger guys, like a Brian Cook, they are probably going to now get up to 14, 15, 16 million, I would guess, based on what Cam Curl has done. But a lot of money, man. It's a lot of money. And I, I, there is Cam Curl to me, compared to some of the other safeties, it's just like, I don't know, man. There is such a stability to his game that I absolutely love. And so for the Rams to bring him back and then kind of like you mentioned, gifts allows them more flexibility with Quinton Lake because like I, I could have envisioned the world where they let Curl walk. They just move lake to safety. McDuffie's your nickel. We figure it out at outside corner, but that kind of locks you into that. And I think we've seen maybe teams taking a little bit of, you know, the blueprint of what the Seahawks just did with them being able to shuffle around, shuffle around some of their corners and also what the Ravens have done for a very long time with Kyle Hamilton and some of their corners and Marlon Humphrey sometimes being a nickel and sometimes not, I think teams are kind of taking that blueprint a little bit. And so I think the Rams trying to make sure that they keep those avenues open, I think is a pretty good option for them.
- [61:52]
Robert Mays
Yeah, you look at it now, I mean, with, with curl, you still have cam kins in the fold. Obviously, you know, they bring back Quentin Lake. If you want to play Quentin Lake in the nickel. When you're in nickel and you have McDuffie on the outside and then you can figure out that other outside corner spot. I mean, this group is in a very good spot, especially compared to where they were last year, even with a guy like Kobe Durant hitting free agency. So this Rams team, team is, they're addressing the potential issues that this roster was going to have as they know just how much is riding on this season. And so it not surprising to see them show a little bit of urgency in making sure that group comes together in a way that it did not by the end of last year.
- [62:27]
Derek Classen
I'm not surprised, but I'm, I am disappointed that your rundown doesn't include the Niners signing Eddie pinero to a four year, $17 million extension. Like, I hate to be a caricature of myself, but you just leave me no cheers choice when you're trying to leave out major resignings like Eddie pinero to the 49ers, which I, I mainly just think it's funny. Eddie Panuro was great last year. Like, he was 28 of 29. He like, I mean, he was fantastic. But it's funny to me that the Niners got out from under the Jake Moody fiasco and immediately were like, let's tie ourselves to another kicker for the long term. Like, I don't know, Eddie, Eddie Panero played great, but did the Niners have to rush out and do this? Was my, was my main response to that, that deal, I mean, just your
- [63:14]
Robert Mays
buddy that has had terrible, terrible relationship luck for way too long and then just throws himself into the first thing that comes along.
- [63:20]
Derek Classen
Yeah, like, you can be single for a little while. Like, that's okay if you're just getting out of something, but enjoy yourself. The Niners disagree.
- [63:28]
Dave Hellman
The entire Shanahan's whole tree thing with their whole thing with kickers is just, I don't want to think about them anymore. And so the fact that he, for a little bit, didn't have to think about him, just like send it off.
- [63:37]
Adam Grant
We're good.
- [63:38]
Derek Classen
I'm rooting for Eddie Panero to stay that good, but I thought it was a funny decision by the Force Niners.
- [63:44]
Robert Mays
All right. That's all we've got for Today, again, this will be up a little bit later on Sunday. We're going to give this a little bit of breathing room before our live stream that starts tomorrow at 12pm Wait, wait.
- [63:57]
Derek Classen
We can't. We can't. We can't sign off without talking about the hair. Like, we can leave it till the end.
- [64:02]
Robert Mays
Oh, come on. Like, it doesn't need to be addressed.
- [64:05]
Derek Classen
You don't want to address the hair on the live stream for the first time because, like, we have all of our friends coming on. Like, they're going to say something about it.
- [64:13]
Robert Mays
It's not that complicated of a thing. I'd had the same haircut for a very long time. I was bored of it. I wanted to do something a little bit different. I didn't know what a, like, shorter middle ground might look like. And so my thought was, you know what? It. I'm just going to take it all off. I've done it before. I know my head isn't weird. And we're just going to figure out what we want to do on the way back to where I was.
- [64:36]
Dave Hellman
What an insane sentence. I know my head is.
- [64:39]
Derek Classen
My head isn't weird.
- [64:40]
Robert Mays
If you've met. If you. You have not ever done this.
- [64:43]
Dave Hellman
Yeah, I guess. I don't know. I don't know.
- [64:45]
Robert Mays
Just. And there, there are. There's so many things that can go awry. There's so many different reasons that this could be a bad choice. I did this a lot when I was young. I did it in college consistently. And so I knew that the downside was only so low. So I was like, you know what? I just. I just wanted to change a pace. That was really it.
- [65:03]
Dave Hellman
That, that.
- [65:03]
Robert Mays
That's all my. I came back. I came home. I. I had told my wife this was. Was possible. Okay. I had been dancing around it for years, like, legitimately. The first time this ever came up was after our wedding in 2023, and we were going on our honeymoon. And I was like, you know what? I just want to take it all off post wedding. Like, I just don't want to deal with it anymore. It's going to be for the summer. Let's do it. And so this isn't.
- [65:25]
Dave Hellman
Not.
- [65:25]
Robert Mays
I didn't, like, spring this on her, but I did not confirm before I left for the haircut on Friday that I was going to do it. And so I just rolled back into the house with this. And she said, it's like those videos of babies that see their dads without beards for the first time. Like, that's how I feel right now. Now.
- [65:42]
Derek Classen
Incredible that you just went in blind with your, with your wife. That's fantastic. That is bold.
- [65:49]
Robert Mays
She's coming around on it. She's, she's warming up to it because she's getting used to it.
- [65:52]
Dave Hellman
She doesn't have a choice.
- [65:53]
Derek Classen
I mean, I think it looks great,
- [65:56]
Dave Hellman
but it is, it's a shock. It's a culture shock.
- [65:58]
Derek Classen
You know, I, I, I would, I wouldn't go in blind with my fiance. I would like give her a heads up, like, hey, it's going to look different when I come back to the house. But hey, that's, I, I didn't know.
- [66:09]
Robert Mays
I honestly didn't know. When I left, I did not know I was gonna do it. I got there, sat down. The stylist that I work with, her name is Izzy. She's been great. I've known her for years and years and years. We had a real conversation about it. I was like, I'm considering doing this. What do you think? And she's like, why don't we take it like halfway down and then you can make a decision. And she took it halfway down. I was like, I'm ready. Just do it. Just, just, just, let's get rid of it.
- [66:32]
Derek Classen
So that's where we're at. I think we should do at least one episode episode where Derek lets all of his hair down and then I'll like, I'll quaff my thing up as good as possible and we'll have like all three stages of hair growth on one tv, on one podcast.
- [66:48]
Robert Mays
Dave, you know this, part of the reason for this is you had, there was no, like, I, if I'm not wearing a hat, had to do it. There was no like intermediate step where I just didn't have to pay attention to it. And so now the fact that I don't have to worry about it at all for a while, I'm really looking forward to that. And so that was part of it. Part of it was laziness.
- [67:09]
Derek Classen
I understand the appeal of that, but I'm, I don't know, I'm too afraid of not having my hair. It's too valuable to what I've got going on.
- [67:17]
Robert Mays
There is part of me as a 38 year old man that it's like, what if it doesn't grow back? But I, that's not how science works. Yeah, that's, I understand that it's going to grow back.
- [67:25]
Derek Classen
It'll stop when it stops.
- [67:27]
Dave Hellman
It's not really about when you decide to cut it.
- [67:29]
Derek Classen
I pride myself on not being superstitious, but I think I've said three superstitious things things on the show this week. So maybe I, maybe, maybe I'm more superstitious than I give myself credit for because I can't risk it not growing back.
- [67:41]
Robert Mays
Listen, sometimes you're pushed into a place of desperation. Me with my hair, the Ravens trading for Max Crosby. Like you're making decisions that are not optimized, but you feel like that's what you have to do in the moment. And that's where we are bringing it
- [67:53]
Derek Classen
back on the tracks. There we go.
- [67:55]
Robert Mays
That's all we've got for today. Like we mentioned tomorrow or if you're listening to this on Monday morning, today day March March 9 Monday, 11am Central Time, 12pm Eastern. I've been saying it in central time because we schedule things on central time. I understand that's probably not how I should be talking about it. The people in the discord were a little bit annoyed and I totally understand this. There was a listener from the UK who's like, I, you can't ask me to know that.
- [68:20]
Dave Hellman
They only need, they only get to learn one time zone.
- [68:22]
Robert Mays
And they basically ask me to know that. Totally fair. So 12pm Eastern on Monday, March 9, we will be starting, starting our free agency live stream. 1516 guests going to be coming on over that five hour stretch. One of my favorite days of the entire year. Encourage you guys to come by, spend the day with us, spend the time we be doing it from the studio. Derek's flying in today. Very much looking forward to it. For now, that's all we got. Appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you very soon.
- [69:05]
Dave Hellman
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- [69:36]
Robert Mays
hey, it's Adam Grant from Ted's podcast Work Life, and this episode is brought to you by ServiceNow. AI is only as powerful as the
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Dave Hellman
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Robert Mays
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Dave Hellman
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