Texans defense rolls over Steelers, leads team to Divisional Round

Summary

The Athletic Football Show: Texans Defense Rolls Over Steelers, Leads Team to Divisional Round

Date: January 13, 2026
Host: Robert Mays
Co-Hosts: Derrik Klassen, Dave Helman

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the Houston Texans’ dominant defensive display in their playoff win over the Pittsburgh Steelers. The hosts analyze how the Texans overwhelmed Pittsburgh, dissect the Texans’ surprising offensive showing (despite several miscues from CJ Stroud), and debate what the result means for both teams’ playoff futures. They also turn their focus to the Steelers’ offseason, raising big questions about Mike Tomlin’s future, the quarterback conundrum, and the realistic path forward for Pittsburgh.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Texans Defensive Masterclass

• Sheer Dominance:
  The Texans’ defense put on "one of the most significant and thorough ass kickings I have ever seen from one defense on one side of the ball in an NFL game since I started paying attention to the sport." — Robert Mays (03:57)
• Historical Context:
  • 3.1 yards per play allowed (second-best by a playoff defense in the past decade).
  • 72.4% success rate (fourth-best).
  • 0.51 EPA per play (best in a playoff game in ten years).
    “This was truly an all-time playoff performance.” — Dave Helman (04:08)
• Steelers Passing Futility:
  Aaron Rodgers—19.4% passing success rate, among the three worst QB playoff performances by this metric all season. “This is a playoff football game. And that is what the Houston Texans defense did to Aaron Rodgers and this offense. They snuffed them out. It was incredible to watch.” — Robert Mays (04:31)

Notable Defensive Sequences

• After rare Steelers big plays, the Texans immediately responded:

  • "I imagine the Texans defenders like cracking their necks like, 'Okay, yeah, you're gonna have an explosive on us? Let's see how this goes.'" — Derek Klassen (08:33)
  • Aziz Al-Shaair’s tight coverage and a subsequent hit on Rodgers after a strip sack touchdown (09:12-09:54).

• Steelers faced nine third-and-10+ situations. “You can’t live like that against anybody. You especially cannot live that way against Will Anderson Jr. and Daniel Hunter.” — Dave Helman (11:23)

Memorable Quote

“They've taken the idea of 'you have to hate every offense' to like include their own if they needed to.”
— Dave Helman (09:12)

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2. Texans’ Offensive Positives (and CJ Stroud’s Wobbles)

• Running Game Breakout:
  • 48% rushing success rate—Texans’ second-best this year, and second-best rushing performance in playoffs by any team.
  • “If I was a Houston fan... we have a reasonable chance of getting to 17, which means we have a reasonable chance of beating anybody in the league.” — Derek Klassen (06:02)
• Stroud’s Wild Swings:
  • Multiple “mind-boggling” decisions, including red zone turnovers and a “disgusting interception” (12:31).
  • Still delivered several “laser beams” over the middle, including a clutch third-and-15 throw to Christian Kirk (06:59).
  • “We saw the worst game CJ Stroud is going to play in the playoffs.” — Robert Mays (19:26)
• Nico Collins Concern:
  • Left the game hurt—potentially significant for the next round.

Notable Moment

“It’s frustrating how good C.J. Stroud can look. And then just a couple times a game, something wild’s gonna happen.”
— Derek Klassen (20:24)

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3. How Far Can This Texans Team Go?

• Super Bowl Contender?

  • Acknowledgment that defensive dominance can be a playoff equalizer, especially in a year where few teams have standout offenses.
  • Hosts split between optimism about Houston’s ceiling and skepticism about their ability to avoid offensive letdowns three straight weeks:
    • “In a one off, I think the Texans could beat every single team left in the field…But over the course of three weeks, getting a good enough performance from the offense three times in a row…I wouldn’t bet on it.” — Derek Klassen (14:44)

• Matchup with Patriots:

  • Texans are three-point underdogs. Hosts feel Houston's offense will be tested by New England’s defense, which surprised with strong play against the Chargers.
    • “The Patriots defense…should have opened eyes to anybody that was watching them play that game.” — Derek Klassen (16:15)

Notable Quote

“If the quarterback did not lose his mind three different times in this game, how would we be feeling about the Texans right now?”
— Robert Mays (06:33)
“We’d be like, oh, that team’s going to the Super Bowl.”
— Dave Helman (06:40)

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4. Steelers Offseason: The Big Reset?

• The Tomlin Question:

  • Debate over whether it’s the right time for a “mutual parting” (27:08) as Steelers face an aging roster and a lack of a franchise QB.
  • “I think it’s kind of a natural end for it all…there is a chapter closing for this team in this moment.” — Robert Mays (25:34)
  • Tomlin’s massive respect in the league; if let go, “he would get every single call from every single team.” — Dave Helman (27:04)

• Roster & QB Conundrum:

  • Steelers have five top-100 picks, but no clear quarterback plan.
  • Continuous playoff berths keep them picking outside the top 10—“play your way out of range to answer long term questions like who’s going to be your quarterback? That was frustrating three years ago and now it’s 2026.” — Derek Klassen (28:29)

• Should the Steelers do a Hard Reset?

  • Will they consider trading stars like TJ Watt to accumulate resources for a proper rebuild?
  • “If you’re never going to be that caliber of team…you have to revisit what your plan is to become that caliber of team.” — Robert Mays (30:34)
  • On the organization’s risk aversion: “Because they’re the Steelers, they don’t operate the same way as everybody else. They’re way more patient…even if they shouldn’t.” — Derek Klassen (36:19)

Notable Quote

“The goal is not to be a 9 and 8, 10 and 7 team with no chance of winning a championship every single year. That's not the goal.”
— Robert Mays (29:27)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Dave Helman on the Texans defense:

  “If it's going to be that close and that gross, it better be because one defense is thoroughly kicking the shit out of the other team.” (03:31)

• Robert Mays on the Will Anderson/Rankins touchdown:

  “That is among the most...you defensive touchdowns I think I've ever seen in an NFL game.” (08:00)

• On Pittsburgh's existential stasis:

  “It’s very cool that you keep having a winning record, but when this is what you look like in the playoffs and you play your way out of range to answer long term questions…that was frustrating three years ago and now it’s 2026.” — Derek Klassen (28:29)

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Important Timestamps

• Texans’ Defensive Dominance – 02:25 to 06:59
• Texans’ offensive wrinkles and Stroud’s wild ride – 06:59 to 12:31
• Texans as Super Bowl contender? – 13:43 to 16:39
• Patriots next; Defensive matchup talk – 15:37 to 16:39
• Texans’ run-game design analysis – 17:46 to 18:56
• Nico Collins injury & key WR play – 20:05 to 20:39
• Steelers’ season/postseason reset, Tomlin future – 24:45 to 36:40
• Closing thoughts on Steelers’ philosophy – 36:19 to 36:40

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Tone & Style

• Energetic, geeky, and at times irreverent—full of laughter at the Texans’ overwhelming dominance and honest about the pitfalls for both teams.
• Willing to veer into existential "big picture" NFL talk about what it takes to contend versus settling for playoff mediocrity.

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Summary for the Uninitiated

This episode is a “must-listen” if you want to understand how the Houston Texans not only beat the Steelers, but did so in a manner that may reshape expectations for their playoff run—with eye-popping statistical context and lively debate about whether their defense can carry them farther. It also offers a candid (and somewhat somber) post-mortem for the Steelers and a sharp critique of organizational inertia versus real contenders’ moves. Plenty of smart football talk, big-picture perspective, and fun banter throughout.

Transcript

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[Robert Mays]

Welcome to the Athletic Football Show I'm Robert Mays. An unbelievable performance from the Houston Texans defense tonight as they dominate the Pittsburgh Steelers. Just an all timer and that's really what we spent a lot of time talking about today. Watching that Houston Texans defense was just one heck of an experience and think kind of reframes potentially what this team might be capable of in the playoffs. Especially if their offense shows the signs of life it did today. Outside of just three mind boggling decisions from their quarterback today it's me, Derek Classen, Dave Hell breaking down all things Texan Steelers. Follow that up with just a discussion about the Steelers future where what happens with Mike Tomlin is now the moment that the Steelers could potentially move on and hit reset. Seems like it might be. Really enjoyed this conversation. Hope you guys do as well. I'm pretty sure that's the most fun I could have watching a football game that was 7:6 in the fourth quarter. Yeah I was cackling watching what the Texans did on defense tonight. Cackling.

[Dave Hell]

If it's going to be that close and that gross, it better be because one defense is thoroughly kicking the shit out of the other team.

[Derek Classen]

One benefit of us watching games together is I think a lot of time you might think it's hyperbole or conjecture to say you were cackling at something.

[Robert Mays]

No.

[Derek Classen]

Robert was laughing really hard throughout the late third early, you know, mid fourth quarter of this game and and why wouldn't you after a performance like that?

[Robert Mays]

Truly one the most significant and thorough ass kickings I have ever seen from one defense on one side of the ball in an NFL game since I started paying attention to the sport.

[Dave Hell]

You want me to paint it by the numbers here? By playoff games. I looked at just the past decade on true media on a yards per play basis, 3.1 yards per play. It's the second best in a playoff game in the decade. It is the fourth best by success rate at about 72.4% and on an EPA per play basis they hit to they got to 0.51. It's the best best in a game in a decade in the playoffs. This was like truly an all time.

[Robert Mays]

Playoff performance even beyond the playoffs. I was looking it up in the fourth quarter cause I'm like this has to be one of the worst performances by a passing game that we've seen the entire season per next gen stats. Rogers when I looked this up there was 239 left. I'm pretty sure he was out after that 19.4% passing success rate for Rogers at that point that was the third lowest mark of the season by a quarterback with at least 25 drop backs. The only two that were worse were were Justin Fields and Cam Ward against the Broncos. That's it. This is a playoff football game. And that is what the Houston Texans defense did to Aaron Rodgers and this offense. They snuffed them out. It was incredible to watch by the.

[Derek Classen]

End of this game. And we, we just watched the Chargers offensive performance against the Patriots on Sunday night and how woeful that was. And they also did not score a touchdown. The Steelers EPA per play was twice.

[Robert Mays]

As bad as the Chargers from last night.

[Derek Classen]

As the Chargers Chargers from last night. The Chargers finished with an EPA per play of -0.32. You're right. The Texans did snuff the Chargers out last year.

[Robert Mays]

So it is twice.

[Derek Classen]

It is.

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[Derek Classen]

Which game I'm talking about.

[Dave Hell]

That's the second worst game by EP epa. There you go.

[Derek Classen]

By the way, they doubled up the Chargers woeful performance from last night. And I would bet it's similar to whatever they did to poor Justin Herbert last year.

[Robert Mays]

Yeah, the, the fact that the Texans offense, which I would really leave this game very encouraged by the way that the Texans played on offense because they were doing things that we had just never seen them do the entire year.

[Derek Classen]

Brother, are you kidding? The Texans rushing success rate was 48% in this game. It was one of their five best rushing performances of the year and the second best rushing performance of any team in the playoffs by success rate. Like, and we, we can get into everything C.J. stroud did that was dumb and bad. But to the Texans move the ball on the ground like that. I would be so geeked if I was a Houston fan. I'm like, we have a reasonable chance of getting to 17, which means we have a reasonable chance of beating anybody in the league.

[Robert Mays]

If the quarterback did not lose his mind three different times in this game, how would we be feeling about the Texans right now?

[Dave Hell]

We'd be like, oh, that seems going to the super bowl like they would.

[Robert Mays]

Feel as dangerous as you could possibly imagine.

[Derek Classen]

Which is so great because you could say if CJ shroud doesn't lose his mind 3 times they demolish the Steelers and they demolished score maybe is 30 or 44 to 6 instead of 30.

[Robert Mays]

I made this joke in real time when CJ Stroud hit Christian Kirk for that, that huge gain that puts them in field goal range when they were up seven to six. I literally said in that moment it was a third and 15. It was a great throw and that's that that play helps swing the game. So it's seven to six at that point. It's a huge crosser from Christian Kirk from the slot. Christian Kirk had an incredible game today. Kyle Duggers with the free safety. They Kirk outruns Brandon Echols. A beautiful ball by Stroud. At that point I think they were in range like a 55 yard field goal. And I ha. I jokingly said they should maybe just kick the field goal on first down to go up 10 to 6 because at that point would you have any faith in the Steelers ability? Well then they lost score when they came out on a penal hold immediately on the next play. So they eventually do get 4 yards. They kick the field goal to go up 10 to 6. But that's how it felt the entire game. But the moment that encapsulates this entire thing. It's not just the fact that the Texans scored a touchdown on that Sheldon Rankins play. It's the way that it happened when you watch that play unfold. Will Anderson wins around the corner almost immediately. He sack he gets this initial contact on Rogers. Rankins does a little stutter bull rush, puts his hand right in Isaac Salomali's chest, bowls him over. The ball just ends up right in his hands and he essentially walks in for a touchdown. That is among the most you defensive touchdowns I think I've ever seen in an NFL game. And when you watch that happen in that moment I think you really start to full. It starts to fully crystallize what we're watching in this game.

[Derek Classen]

My favorite part about that was it came two plays after the Steelers converted their only they picked up one of their biggest chunk gains of 14 yard. Yes, 14 yard gain. And like I just imagine the Texans defenders like cracking their necks like okay, yeah, you're going to have an explosive on us. Okay, let's see how this goes.

[Robert Mays]

That was my favorite part of this game is that we joked about it in real time. I think that there are some defenses that would get a little bit demoralized with all the turnovers and the short fields. The Texans seem to take it personally. Like it just made them meaner every single time they were put into a bad position or the Steelers would have like one 10 or 12 yard game.

[Dave Hell]

They've taken the idea of like you have to hate every offense to like include their own if they, if they needed to.

[Robert Mays]

However you got to get there and.

[Dave Hell]

Today they needed it to I think to my favorite play about so obviously Hunter gets the strip Sack, they bring him back for a touchdown. The very next play, Rodgers does a patented like performative deep ball. He tries to throw a seam ball down the middle too. I think it was Pat Fryermouth. Incredible coverage by Aziz Al Shire running with him on the pole play. And then on the very next play, Rodgers tries to throw a check down and Aziz Al Shire nukes him. And that to me was like the fact that you get the sack, the strip sack, bring it back for a touchdown. And then on the next two plays, your middle linebacker makes two very different incredible plays and coverage. I'm like, this defense dude is just. There's something.

[Derek Classen]

Another fun example of the Texans just taking things personally. There was another one the Steelers faced, I think 11 third and 10, no 8 third and 10 pluses in this game. They were in third and long and I love next gen, but they define third and long by third and seven plus. And I wish I could see third and 10 plus because the Steelers were living in third and double digits in this game. And one thing that stood out to me midway through the third quarter, again you're talking about them taking things personally. They picked one of those up. It was their, one of their only third down conversions of the night.

[Robert Mays]

He hits Rogers MBS, right?

[Derek Classen]

Yeah, it's MVS for 14 yards. Next play is a Petri stuff for negative 2 yards. And then the next play is when Daniel Hunter spun Troy Fautanu and was just in Rogers his lap and chasing him out of the pocket. And then the next play he tries a deep ball against Kamari Lasseter and he just tips it away like nothing. And the only reason it even had a shot is because people were booing for a DPI flag. Like the, like I said, every good Steelers moment. It just felt like you could feel the Texans being annoyed that they got anything right against them at all.

[Robert Mays]

I meant to bring up the third down thing when we were talking about that strip sack because before that play happened, The Steelers were one of nine. Their average distance to go was 11.3 yards on third down.

[Derek Classen]

Crazy.

[Robert Mays]

I looked up while you were talking. They faced nine instances the Steelers did of third and 10 plus in the.

[Derek Classen]

There we go. That's.

[Dave Hell]

You can't live like that against anybody. You especially cannot live that way against Will Anderson Jr. And Daniel Hunter.

[Derek Classen]

I think like their, their shortest third down of the night was probably third and seven. Like I don't, I don't think they got into a third and ma what you would call third and manageable all night long. Or if they did.

[Dave Hell]

It was maybe on those first two drives where they were.

[Derek Classen]

Okay, A very, very.

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[Robert Mays]

Yeah, yeah. They had 0 third in shorts. They had 2 third in mediums.

[Derek Classen]

Okay, good.

[Robert Mays]

They were 1 of 12 on third.

[Dave Hell]

Which I'm assuming is what, like 4 to 6 yards? Like, that's. To even only get into those, let alone whatever you're converting is crazy. My favorite thing, too, is, Dave, you said at the top, just cackling it. The way this defense plays. The thing is, it's not one.

[Derek Classen]

It's just one guy.

[Dave Hell]

It is obviously Will Anderson Jr. Has the strip sack and had a couple of other good moments. The play where Hunter does the inside spin move on Troy Fatani was just like, oh, my God. And then the other play where he knifes inside on play action. That's insane by Daniel Hunter.

[Robert Mays]

I was just laughing. And as that play unfolded, like watching how fast he got into the backfield and how terrified Rogers was cut across.

[Dave Hell]

An offensive lineman's face so fast that you don't even really get touched is pretty rare. Stuff like that was insane.

[Robert Mays]

And then my. One of my favorite sequences the whole game is after the interception, which is just a disgusting interception. Just a disgusting interception by C.J. stroud, Jalen Petrie, like two times in three plays. It was just like. I'm just going to let you guys know right now, none of this matters. None of this is going to matter on your side of it. So let's. Let's take a step back and this is all worth celebrating, but I want to reframe just what this makes us feel about the Texans for these playoffs specifically. We've. We've said this a bunch of different times in this season, specifically because it is a weird collection of playoff teams where you have some of these really dominant defenses. And typically, if you look back at history the last 10, 15 years, you need to be a historically great defense in order for your defense to propel you all the way to a championship. We're at a point now where it's like them and the Seahawks, honestly, because of what this field looks like? And if the life that the Texans offense showed despite CJ Stroud trying to throw the game away like three different times. Are we at a place where we think this Texans team with the defense playing this way can actually get them over the hump and do that, win the Super Bowl? Yeah, that's.

[Derek Classen]

That's tough. I mean, you're still talking about.

[Robert Mays]

Honestly, man, I don't want to. I see you smiling.

[Dave Hell]

Think about who they would.

[Derek Classen]

No I.

[Dave Hell]

Look, I don't. All of these.

[Derek Classen]

I didn't say no. I didn't say no.

[Dave Hell]

I wouldn't pick them. So like I'm not picking them as like my pick right now, but like if. Because obviously I think the AFC bracket, we've probably spent a lot of air talking about how they would beat a lot of these teams and they've played a couple of these teams and then you think about who's probably going to come out of the nfc. I would assume it's to me probably going to be one of the NFC west teams.

[Robert Mays]

Wrong. But that's fine.

[Dave Hell]

Even if it's the Bears. Do you like Caleb against, against this? I think no matter who they play, like they, they got a shot to just like nuke anybody.

[Derek Classen]

I mean that this is, it's not even worth talking about right now. But like Caleb is uniquely suited to deal with those guys.

[Robert Mays]

Yeah, I just made, I just made. Robert, we're not discussing this. I just think that you look at, I mean the Patriots played really well yesterday. Drake May has been so good this season. I cannot wait to see Drake May against this defense. But I absolutely think the Texans can beat the Patriots.

[Derek Classen]

Here's where I, here's where I come down on this. I think in a one off, I think the Texans could beat every single team left in the field.

[Babbel Advertiser]

Yes.

[Derek Classen]

But over the course of three weeks and getting a good enough performance from the offense three times in a row and not having C.J. stroud lose his mind and get strip sacked twice and throw a red zone interception while also getting the best possible version of the defense three times in a row, I wouldn't bet on it. But get into those games and anything is possible. Like there is no team left in the field on either side of the bracket where I'm just like, ah, they'd probably have Houston's number. I don't think that team exists.

[Dave Hell]

Is it weird to say after the charges game, I'm definitely, I'm like way more scared of whatever the Texans offense is capable of versus New England's defense than I would be of like can the Texans defense stop potential mvp Drake may actually think they have a decent shot at doing that. I'm not sure they'll put up 20 against that new England defensive.

[Robert Mays]

I honestly and I don't want to overstate this because the chart Chargers offense is obviously in such a weird place with the pass protection. The, the unit that I watched this weekend that kind of made me sit up in my chair and rethink about what that team is what that team is capable of in these playoffs. Was the Patriots defense.

[Dave Hell]

Yeah.

[Robert Mays]

The way, the way that they played yesterday, watching just how muddy they made things on the back end and what they looked like. I know Milton's back for a couple weeks, but with Milton, Williams, with Spillane and just the fact that they have those corners on the outside and just how murky they were making the entire game. You combine that with what the quarterback is capable of and it' man, all right, like that's. I'm interested in that.

[Derek Classen]

Even if you account for the fact that Justin Herbert didn't play well, the Patriots defense acquitted itself so well and there were so many questions about how good are they actually and who have they actually played and what can they do? And it's. I mean, they'll have another opportunity, but they. I think they should. They opened my eyes and I think they should have opened eyes to anybody that was watching them play that game.

[Robert Mays]

So the line is out. According to BetMGM, the Patriots are three point favorites. I've seen it at two and a half somewhere else. So it's. They're at home.

[Dave Hell]

That's basically just home field advantage.

[Robert Mays]

And that's, I mean that's, that's what we're looking at here with the Texans moving forward. I think just the overall formula the Texans were able to follow on offense in sustaining some of these drives. I mean that drive, that their touchdown drive, we were just marveling at it in real time. Like the only touchdown drive the offense had, which is hilarious, but you watch that happen. They had five successful runs in a row. 9, 6, 27. And then you're mixing that up with again on early downs when they were able to run the ball efficiently and staying out of third downs. And they were incredible on third down tonight. But if you watch the early down plan, this offense I think is at its best when, if you can run the ball and then you can hit some of those in breakers off play action. That's what C.J. stroud does really well and that's what they were able to do in this game. And you look at the run game plan and I'll be curious to go back and actually watch it in detail. But it really seemed to me like we're just getting a ton of variations of like downhill runs out of jumbo personnel. I showed you guys after the play happened. It was on that drive, there was a play where Cade Stover was lined up between the tackle and Blake Fisher, the extra offensive lineman, right between them, right behind them. In a three point stance, like there was ready to go. There was, there were, there was nothing like sneaky going on with how the Texans were trying to run the ball in this game. They did a good job with some motions, kind of displace people and I'm not trying to minimize that, but it really was like a downhill run at you plan and it was consistently working. They were moving those guys off the ball and I just, I wasn't ready for it. It was kind of bewildering to watch in real time.

[Derek Classen]

Well, even when they do the jumbo stuff, it, it hasn't always worked that well.

[Robert Mays]

It's been terrible. Yeah, it's been bad.

[Derek Classen]

So like to like, it's easy to say, oh, we'll get, get another tight end out there and get Blake Fisher out there and you'll be good to go. That hasn't really been the case. So to be as successful as they were, that was, that was so cool. Like where you don't see that in the NFL very often where they're just like, all right again again like five times in a row all the way down.

[Robert Mays]

He called an awesome game too. Yeah, I was very impressed with the way they the his feel for what they were trying to do in all these moments. I thought he was really good tonight.

[Dave Hell]

And I also think too what I was thinking about a little bit like compared to I think Liam Cohen maybe going away from it a little bit in their game. For as good as the Jags run game was in that game, it was a lot of trick em dick them. It was a lot of like, we gotta move guys, we gotta get on the perimeter. We're pulling, we're doing all this weird stuff that can be hard to like chain into your other plays. This was pretty much all just like duo a little bit of like weak zone every now and then. It was just like downhill stuff like you said that you can tie to your play action. So I think he was comfortable. Just like we're just gonna pound it and then once or twice a drive we'll see if we can hit the glancer out over the middle.

[Robert Mays]

I also think there's a little bit of. You can go two ways with this. You could either be really scared by the way that he played or you could take it the other way. Where we saw the worst game CJ Stroud is going to play in the playoffs.

[Derek Classen]

I think almost certainly not only that, but I would argue you can't wave off the amount of just head scratching stuff that happened here. The interception in Particular, but I thought he, I thought C.J. stroud threw some laser beams in this game too. Like, particularly over the middle of the field. I'm looking at it right now. He was 10 of 13 for 101 in. In between. In the seams, like in between the numbers. And like him and Nico Collins, which. That's something to watch. Nico Collins left this game.

[Robert Mays]

That's. Yeah, that's massive. That's.

[Derek Classen]

That's tough if, if you don't have him for this next game. But he, he threw some, some piss missiles over the middle of the field in against really good coverage. I did one Steelers thing I wanted to make sure I said, and you and I were going back and forth about it all night. Joey Porter Jr.

[Robert Mays]

Kicks ass.

[Derek Classen]

Yeah, he, he's such a good, fun player, but they got, they got the better of him a couple times. Linking up with Nico Collins over the course of the game, it's really, it's frustrating how good C.J. stroud can look. And then just a couple times a game, something wild's gonna happen.

[Robert Mays]

The ball placement for the most part was pretty good throughout the game. He missed Nico on that crosser right before the half, but even on that play, he's moving while he's throwing that. So his pocket movement and really anytime he had to get moved off his spot in this game, the feel and just how those plays are sprinting, it.

[Dave Hell]

Just, it was bizarre.

[Robert Mays]

It was a very weird performance from him. And again, I hope that this is an outlier where you just kind of say, well, we were able to overcome this. Hopefully he plays better moving forward. But just a strange, strange game from C.J. stroud. And really, at no point over the course of the game did it feel like it was going to matter. At no point.

[Derek Classen]

It's so funny that you say that because football teaches you that you will pay for that stuff. Like, if you watch enough of these games and it's 7:6 going into the fourth, and most of the time you're just like, come on, guys. Like, this is, this is how you get beat, especially in the playoffs. Like a missed throw here, a bad decision there, a turnover. And like, even with all the dumb CJ stuff, I never, I never got there. I never felt like it was really in danger, even when it was a one point game.

[Robert Mays]

Before we move on, let's take one quick break.

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I've got the usual goals.

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[Derek Classen]

At the top of my list. Get Comfy.

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[Robert Mays]

So now I think we have to turn our attention to what happens next for the Pittsburgh Steelers because this turns into a fascinating off season. What happens at quarterback and what happens at head coach, I think, are obviously the two biggest questions, and I think they're two questions worth asking. It seems like Rodgers is probably going to be done right, and so he's kind of alluded to that multiple times over the course of the year. So if he is, who's going to play quarterback for the Steelers becomes a huge question, and there's really no easy answer to it. I want to start with the Tomlin thing, though. Does it not feel like this might be the right time for everyone to start over? Does it not feel that way because.

[Dave Hell]

There'S been so much other shuffling? You have so many options in the deck now.

[Robert Mays]

I just look at the overall makeup of the roster as well and where they're at right now. The Steelers have seven picks in the first four rounds. They have multiple comp picks. They have the trade. The. The. They have a pick they got in the Pickens Trade. They have five top 100 picks. Really, the only kind of vestiges of the previous version of this roster are Cam Hayward and TJ Watt. It's really it. Everything else. You have a very young roster. You have a team that's kind of like starting over in a lot of ways with like, who your most important players are going to be and one Hayward under a contract for next year. I understand that, but it really does feel like if the Steelers wanted this to be the end point for whatever this whole thing was, it wouldn't be crazy that this would be it. I actually think it's kind of a natural end for it all. And I think he's signing up for. It's not a rebuild, obviously. Like they're. They were a playoff team, but I think he's signing up for a transition as the Steelers head coach. And I can understand wanting Mike Tomlin for something like that. I think he's well suited for something like that. But it kind of does feel like there is a chapter closing for this team in this moment, and I wonder how both parties are going to look at that moment and how to handle it.

[Dave Hell]

I think that's a good point because it would probably take you two years to get back to being like. Like an actual. Like you could Go to the championship caliber team to like, definitely. And you would need on a lot of things for that to be even be the case. So like I. The Talmud thing is always so tough because I think I would understand if they fire him. I also do think, like, he would get every single call from every single team.

[Derek Classen]

As soon as he's gone, I'm with Mays. I can't, like, I can't imagine the Steelers firing.

[Robert Mays]

I don't think they fire him. I think it would be a mutual party.

[Derek Classen]

Hey, we all had a good time. We love you. Let's both agree to do our own thing.

[Dave Hell]

Which I almost to get from Tomlin's perspective because it's like, if he doesn't think the Steelers can get a quarterback, why not maybe try to get to a spot that maybe you, for whatever reason either feel like they have one like Tennessee. You look at Cam, you look at Cam Ward and you're like, that's better than anything we're going to be able to get.

[Derek Classen]

I think that's a phenomenal point. And you know, there's precedent for this. Sean Payton kind of did this, right? I mean, he called it a retirement at the time, but. But he was out of the game.

[Robert Mays]

For a year and the Saints were in a very similar position. You'd gotten to the end of the Breeze era. There was really no clear path forward. It was an aging roster. And I think that you can make a really serious argument that both parties would mutually benefit from having this be the final kind of closing chapter of what this is. This is run out of road. How many years in a row are we going to watch them get their asses kicked in the playoffs and think, well, if we do this and we kind of tweak this and we make these small changes, maybe that's going to be enough. And then it's not. It's not going to be.

[Derek Classen]

This isn't revelatory because we know who the Steelers have been. But I just think it's. It's wild to see it laid out. They picked top 10 in 2019 and since. And now we.

[Robert Mays]

They're traded up to do that, didn't they?

[Derek Classen]

They dropped.

[Robert Mays]

Oh, my God. You're trying to trade it up to take back Devin Bush in that draft.

[Derek Classen]

They were an 8 and 8 team. These are their. These are their draft positionings. Good shout by you remembering that they traded up for him. But even still, they're locked into the 21, 21st pick heading into the spring. Their last, whatever, six, seven picks, 21, 21, 2014, 2024, 18. Like that's just the world that the Steelers are living in. And to your point, like what's your path to a quarterback? When, I mean it's all, and this is, I'm sure this is a debate in Pittsburgh every single year of like it's very cool that you keep having a winning record, but when this is what you look like in the playoffs and you play your way out of range to answer long term questions like who's going to be your quarterback? That was frustrating three years ago and now it's 2026.

[Robert Mays]

The goal is not to have a winning record every year.

[Derek Classen]

I, I, I mean yes and no. Like the goal is to get to the playoffs, but not if it's six years of this.

[Robert Mays]

The goal is not to be a 9 and 8, 10 and 7 team with no chance of winning a championship every single year. That's not the goal. The goal is to win the Super Bowl. And are the Steelers closer to a Super bowl now than they were two or three years ago?

[Dave Hell]

No, because they're not closer to a quarterback any closer than they were.

[Robert Mays]

They're not closer to a plan that would get you to a Super bowl path than they have been over the last few years.

[Derek Classen]

You know what's frustrating about this is like the, the prevailing logic would be, and not every year obviously you, the, the goal is to compete in a window and build a team that can really be dominant and really be a contender. But the prevailing logic is get in the dance and you've got a shot. Look at what the five seed Houston Texans look like right now. But like no matter how they've done it, like in 2020, they wonky 12 and four team they've, they've had, they've gotten 10 wins three years in a row. At no point have they ever looked like a team that could be dangerous in the dance. The way that, that the 49ers made, have made so many runs as a wild card, as a team that didn't win their own division. The Steelers, no matter how they get in, they haven't looked like that caliber of teams since 2017.

[Robert Mays]

And at that point, if you're never going to be that caliber of team by the end of the season, I think you have to revisit what your plan is to become that caliber of team. Let's just say they run, run it back with Tom, which I wouldn't be surprised if they did because I get wanting that level of stability even if in this moment I think it's the wrong decision. What is the path to a quarterback? Because at some point you have to have a multi year option that you feel good about. And in this off season, if you're picking where the Steelers are picking, what's going to be 20th, it's 21st, 21. Okay. In this draft. So you maybe you take a swing on like a Ty Simpson.

[Derek Classen]

You're praying Ty simpson falls to 21.

[Robert Mays]

So you just did that, right?

[Derek Classen]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dave Hell]

Taking the old guy who's a little bit smaller, doesn't have the biggest arm.

[Robert Mays]

You just did that. And you need to keep taking those dice rolls, but how effective is that one going to be? So if you don't do that, your multi year solutions at quarterback this off season are signing Malik Willis, trading for Tanner McKee. Like that's what you're doing here. I don't think anybody's excited about that. So if you don't want to make that sort of multi year commitment in this off season, then you're kicking the can down the road again and what are you doing? You're trading for Geno Smith and you're having one more year where you got a 30 something quarterback that's probably near the end. Like it just. There's no clear path out of this unless there is like some sort of hard or medium pivot. And I just think that now might be the time to do that.

[Derek Classen]

I would. And I don't say this because like I say this out of admiration for Mike Tomlin. I, I think he's a really good coach. I think his, he's a, he's, his culture is impeccable. I think it's cool that he keeps having a winning record even if it starts to feel hollow after a while. I think the, like the ability to string together that amount of wins week over week, year over year, no matter who you don't have, no matter what. I think it is really impressive and I admire Mike Tomlin. I would like to see this end so that we can stop stringing this along. He could go have a shot to do, to add another team if that's what he wants to do. Or he could spend a year in a studio talking ball with Gronk. Like Sean Payton looked like he had a hell of a time doing that a few years ago, so. And then the Steelers can pivot to something new without risking like dragging Tomlin's image down because they're not good of a team, which I think eventually happens, if it hasn't already happened already with.

[Robert Mays]

Mike Tomlin as Their coach. The Steelers have a stated goal every single year of trying to be a nine or ten win team that makes the playoffs. If Mike Tomlin is not their coach next year, I don't think you have to operate with that stated goal. And I actually think the franchise benefits by not being in that mindset or place.

[Derek Classen]

Even if nobody wants to admit they care about the streak just, just ending that. This era I think would just be easier for everybody and like if it's new coach who's cutting his teeth with a younger roster and I mean, yeah, Hayward and Watt might still be there, but it's a lot of younger players, I think that's a lot more palatable than everybody saying, oh, once mighty Mike Tomlin is coaching a 2 and 7 roster right now, like nobody wants to see that.

[Robert Mays]

I don't think anybody wants to see that. And I also think it changes what you would do with things like quarterback. Right. Like you need a little bit less certainty and maybe a lower floor, but something that's a little bit higher variance. If Mike Tomlin's not the coach, maybe you're willing to take a chance you wouldn't have been previously. Even if Mike Tomlin's not there, you still have a weird pathway to whoever your quarterback.

[Dave Hell]

Right. That would be the argument against like not. It's like you're, you have the weird spot to a quarterback no matter what but now you, it matters so much.

[Robert Mays]

Less if you just change the mindset for what you're trying to accomplish next year. And you understand we're at a spot where this is a multi year reset as we get younger and we just have to evaluate again what the pathway and the timeline looks like.

[Derek Classen]

See and let me ask you this and this. It's so weird because it's just, it's hard to imagine the Steelers functioning this way. Like they've had a winning record for almost 20 years and they famously have only had three coaches. And like we talk so much about the Rooneys and the way they do things and it seems completely opposite of their DNA. But like would you trade a WAT to jumpstart that process?

[Robert Mays]

Yes.

[Derek Classen]

I mean, I think you should. But would they? Like that's something you can imagine like everybody else doing, but it doesn't feel like the Pittsburgh Steelers. And do they financially, I think that.

[Robert Mays]

Might be a concern. That's my only, that's the only other thing I'd say just in terms of like the how pragmatic and possible that might be.

[Dave Hell]

That's right. Like if you do one do it all just like. Like, commit to tearing it down. Like, don't just fire Tomlin and then like, hired because a John Harbaugh or whatever to just like, oh, we're going to keep it going with a different guy. It's like, you might as well try to scrap it and do something completely different.

[Derek Classen]

I'm sure it's easy to talk yourself into the idea of, like, okay, if we just get to 10 wins and we're in the dance, anything can happen. But got a lot of data and how many. We have a lot of data that suggests that it's not.

[Robert Mays]

And.

[Derek Classen]

But can you convince the decision makers in Pittsburgh that that's the case?

[Robert Mays]

T.J. watt has a $30 million dead cap, and if he is traded, they would save $12 million against the cap. He has a $32 million base salary next year. Very tradable. Yeah, very tradable. If they wanted to make that happen. And if you're committing, hit the reset.

[Dave Hell]

And if you're committing to tearing it down, do you even really care about the money that much?

[Robert Mays]

It's not even tearing it down. Again, there is. They have a ton of picks. They have some young people.

[Dave Hell]

The offense.

[Robert Mays]

Offense, the offensive line is, like, fully intact. I don't think you have to commit to being this bad team. I just think you have to commit to a different organizational approach and they just haven't been willing to do that. And I think now might be the right time.

[Derek Classen]

I agree with you.

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[Dave Hell]

It.

[Derek Classen]

It's one of those things that I have to see to believe because I like who the Steelers are is just baked into my brain because that. Because. Because they're the Steelers, they don't operate the same way as everybody else. They're way more patient. They're way more willing to play it by the book, even if they shouldn't. I think that's what they should do. I just. I need to. I need to see that to believe it.

[Robert Mays]

It's going to be a fascinating conversation and something to watch as we move into what is going to be a really intriguing week from, like, the coaching standpoint. What's happening with John Harbaugh, Mike McDaniel getting all these interviews. We're going to scoop that up on Wednesday into Thursday this week. That's going to be our midweek show. Just kind of catching up with all the coaching news. Normal Building the beast. This week, we're deeply into draft time. If you guys are not checking out Building the beast, now is the time to do that, and then we will be back on Friday with a two part divisional round preview for Saturday and Sunday. We have the Times. Lucky for me, the Bears will be playing right into our Sunday night recap. Again. Can't wait for that. But a lot of fun stuff on tap as we head into the best football weekend of the year pretty much every single year. For now, that's all we got. Appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you soon.

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[Dave Hell]

Woohoo.

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[Robert Mays]

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