← The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL
The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL
The 2025-26 debut of Building the Beast with Dane Brugler
01:28:02
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- [00:00]
Dane Brugler
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Dane Brugler
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Dave Hellman
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Dane Brugler
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Dave Hellman
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Dane Brugler
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- [01:03]
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- [01:51]
Dane Brugler
Foreign.
- [01:55]
Dave Hellman
Welcome to the debut episode of what we are calling Building the Beast. I am Dave Hellman and when Robert brought me on to the Athletic Football show, we talked about this. It is here. We have not forsaken you NFL Draft fans. We are back with an in season NFL Draft podcast. We are here to help you build the Beast. Dane Brugler's annual Draft Guide Our Our Bible. My Bible. At least I use it religiously. I have for about 10 years at this point. But what does the process of Building that look like, how does it start in the summer and how do we put it together as we inch toward the 2026 NFL Draft in Pittsburgh? That is the purpose of this show. We're going to dive into everything, the major storylines, the quarterbacks and on down the line, every single position, as many prospects as humanly possible. We're going to be with you throughout the football season. Dane Brugler and talking prospects, talking draft. We are back and I am really looking forward to it. So enough with the intro. Let's jump into it with me and Dane Brugler, building the Beast. If you're listening to a draft podcast in August, let's be real, you probably don't need an introduction for my co host, but I'm going to go ahead and give him one anyway. He is the lead draft writer at the Athletic, longtime draft analyst, good friend of mine, expert barbecue pit master, Dane Brugler. My guy. What is going on, man?
- [03:31]
Dane Brugler
It is so good to hear your voice and see your face as part of this, this is, this is going to be fun. I, I, I cannot wait to do a weekly draft podcast with you as part of the Athletic. This is going to be awesome. You know, you and I go back, man. What the first, I was trying to think, the first draft that we covered together, I think it was 14, was that Zach Martin, Aaron Donald, I was.
- [03:58]
Dave Hellman
I was gonna say, so this is the first episode of Building the Beast. If you're new to the show, if you're new to the two of us, we're excited to have you. But Dane and I go back a decade or more. Yeah, it was 2014 in what I will describe as a very decked out broom closet that we call the podcast studio at the Cowboys old facility way back in Irving Valley Ranch. And it was 2014. So it was Zach Martin and Aaron Donald. It was Odell Beckham, I believe back then before we had this very nice interactive beast, we had to print out our own beast and it was Jadevian Clowney on the COVID Yeah, I'd say we've come a pretty long way, man.
- [04:42]
Dane Brugler
We were worried about Johnny Manziel. Would we have to talk about him in Dallas that year? And of course, we got to shout out Brian Broadus who brought it all together as part of that draft show. You were working for the Cowboys at the time? I was working with CBS and NFL draft scout and Cowboys brought me in to kind of be another draft voice. And it's, it's been cool to see how everything's grown from There. And so who would have thought. Yeah, over a decade later, we're doing this together. And it doing. And so with the Athletic, we've done a weekly draft podcast, really every year since I've been at the Athletic, which is seven years now, which is crazy, except for last year. We took a year off last year in terms of doing an in season draft podcast. And the. I think I can call it outrage. I mean, the amount of messages I received like, hey, why aren't we, you know, we, we need this. And so I'm very happy that we can bring it back to everyone. Well, this will, this will be weekly and we'll have plenty to talk about throughout the year.
- [05:42]
Dave Hellman
It's such a gratifying thing because the draft show then, I mean, the point was to educate Cowboy fans about their team, but what was so special about it was we discovered, or I discovered. Anyway, I don't want to speak for you, but there is such an appetite for draft content that has nothing to do with team specific stuff. Like, obviously, fans want to know who their team is going to draft, and that's all very exciting, but we also just, we want to know about the players, we want to know about the process, we want to know the work that goes into it. We want to stack prospects and argue about whose, you know, stack is the correct one. There's so much about the draft that, that we love and that fans love that really has nothing to do with where these guys end up. And that's what I want this show to be about, is the process, all of that stuff that goes into it. And I think Building the Beast is such an apropos name because we're going to start from square one the same way that all 32 teams do. And by the time we get to April, you'll know, you know, you'll have the blurbs and Dane's guide memorized in time for the draft. It's going to be incredible. I'm really looking forward to it.
- [06:56]
Dane Brugler
Props to. Is it you that came up with that name or, I don't know, Robert or. But yeah, Building the Beast. I think that it really fits what this podcast is going to be all about because it's, it's kind of, you know, a journey together to talk about the 2026 NFL Draft, the players, to know, the risers, guys that maybe aren't living up to what we thought, the entire process. So, yeah, this is gonna be a lot of fun.
- [07:18]
Dave Hellman
I think that's a Michael Beller special. So shout out to him the brains the brains off camera. So let's. Let's start right there because. So I've known you for a decade, and before this show, most of the time I spend talking to you is January to. To late April. Right. Like the true draft cycle. And we always joke like, oh, what is. What does Dane do during the summer? He gets in the lab. He. Like, who. Like, who's he even watching? How does he prioritize this stuff? So I want to start here, if you're not aware, as we're recording this, Dane's top 50, early top 50 for 20, 26 is getting ready to come out. It'll be out later this week as you're listening to this, just in time for the start of college football. Football season. And I want to start with the process of putting that together, not just for you, but let's try to shed some light on how teams do this as well. When you get done writing your last bit of content for the previous draft, take me through that process of getting ready to put a top 50 together.
- [08:23]
Dane Brugler
Yeah, well, the month of May, I take the foot off the pedal a little bit. I try and actually have a life coach, my kids in sports. And then after Memorial Day, it's like diving right back in. There's a ton of work over the next three months, and the summer is. It's huge. It's really where the most important work is done because it's building the database, it's creating a base, foundation understanding of who these players are. That way we have a frame of reference going into the season to know, okay, is a player getting better? Is he regressing? Is he just maybe reinforcing what we thought saw over the summer and all the work in the summer, it limits the surprises in the fall and helps you better prioritize your time about what you need to focus on in season. So by the time January 1st comes around, a lot of people, they're just turning the page to the off season. But for me and my purposes, most of the hay is in the barn at that point where we know these players. And, yeah, there's still little things we need to pick up at all star games, combine workouts, all those things. But it's really the nonstop work in the summer that lays the groundwork. And so, like, I didn't have a single article come out in the month of June, but that's a heavy, heavy work month for me because it's just all about trying to knock out as many guys as possible. And so over the last three months, I've watched, you know, over over a thousand players that are draft eligible that just to get a base understanding of who they are. And so the nice part about the summer is it's all about the film, right? It's, you know, we'll talk about the character stuff, the injury stuff and of that there'll be plenty of time. But right now it's all about identifying traits and understanding who these guys are as football players. And so I really do like that part of it. And that's, that's really how NFL teams kind of their approach as well. Because you know that's the summer is a little bit of step back for scouts. Each scouting department will do it a little bit differently, but it's all about laying the groundwork. I know, you know, like a lot of our listeners, they know this. But just as a refresher, there's two main scouting services, right? National and Blesto. I think there's seven teams with blesto. It's Falcons, Bills, Lions, Giants, Vikings, Steelers and Washington. I believe so. And then there's 20 odd teams with NFS. And so these spring grades, they give you verified measurements. They give teams a working list of draft eligible players going into the summer and then that's what area scouts they'll focus on. They fill in the blanks, you know, the body type observations, the, the character notes, these mini evaluations of the on field talent. And okay, recommend, don't recommend, is he great as an average starter or an above average backup? You know all these things that area scouts will go through. So you know there's a working database to go into the season. So when scouts make these school calls, call starting this, this week in August or this month in August, they'll have an understanding of what to see with each program and then you build upon from there. You trust your sources at those programs. So yeah, this summer is where you lay the groundwork and really create that foundation for what the scouting is going to look like for the next eight months.
- [11:48]
Dave Hellman
I think that's such an interesting wrinkle. I'm glad you brought up NFS and blessed though because as much work as NFL personnel departments do, and they do a ton, that is it is such an essential building block for them is right around the time you start your tape study. Yeah, I'm not surprised that your calendar mirrors NFL teams by the way. It's almost like you've been doing this for a while. But Blessedo and NFS basically give reports to NFL teams like hey, these are the guys in the upcoming draft Cycle. This is who we've got in the database. This is the grades we have on them. So these scouting services will give you a ballpark idea of these are our first round grades. These are our day two grades. These, you know, these are even our guys that don't have draftable grades. These are the schools that they're at. I believe it's, it's seniors only that can give measurements if they want to. Am I correct about that?
- [12:44]
Dane Brugler
Yeah. Then that's how, that's how NFS is always operated and that's how schools are. They don't really want you talking to the underclassmen. Now. Blusto will give some grades on underclassmen, but in terms of getting the verified measurements, yeah, that's, that, that's reserved for only the seniors or at least the fourth year guys.
- [13:07]
Dave Hellman
So I'm sure no two scouting departments do it the same. But you take that list and you spend a healthy chunk of the summer working through it. You assign guys in certain areas to your area. Scouts, higher, scouts up the, the chain of command will over, you know, oversee other things or look at different areas. And then you get to August and as somebody who covered a team, I always, it was always funny because training camp was chock full for probably the first 10 days because everybody in the organization goes out and you want to get eyes on your draft class. You want to have as many people evaluating your young players as possible. And then after about a week and a half, it feels like a ghost town because the entire scouting department disappears to hit the road. And I think that's the part of the calendar that we're in now where, okay, we've got our list. We know who we like, we know who we've watched. Now we're just going to go get eyes on as many people as possible, try to cross chain check what we've seen on tape with what we can see with our own eyes and we'll go from there.
- [14:12]
Dane Brugler
Right? And that's, it's just, it's, it's. The summer's so important and it's great to get eyes on these guys on film, but you're watching a lot of the same film that you've already seen the 2024 stuff. And so the idea of getting new film and watching new football and for 2025 is really exciting. I was talking to one of my buddies for a team yesterday and he actually moved into a national role this year. And so that first weekend year college football, he would go on a marathon because he'd hit One, try to hit one Thursday, try to hit one Friday, try to hit one Saturday. Because over, over Labor Day weekend, the college football spreads it out over five, six days. And he's really going to miss that this year because he's not, not, not an area scout anymore. So it's something that as much work as it is, area scouts put in a ton of work. It's just, it's so exciting to have real football again to watch and to scout and so plenty of guys that.
- [15:09]
Dave Hellman
We need before we dive completely into the class. I am curious about that, especially for you. Just watching a boatload of tape across the summer. How do you weigh the fact that it is all 2024 tape and you're. How do you weigh the idea of like, I'd like to see a little bit more, but there are things about this guy that excite me that I, that I don't see yet. And you know, when you're trying to do something like make a top 50, I got to imagine that's kind of nerve wracking.
- [15:41]
Dane Brugler
Yeah, right. It's, there's a lot of projection and there's a lot of. You're betting on potential and that's why the NFL draft and scouting in general, it's always going to be about scouting the traits and identifying those traits, what translates and making bets. That's what you're doing. You're making bets on certain traits that, you know, translates to certain schemes and certain organizations. And so, you know, it's, it's tough to do when these guys, these players we're going to be talking about, they're going to be drafted based off of what they do in 2025. That's not to say that 2024, 2023, like the underclassman years. It's not to say that that doesn't matter. But largely what you do in 2025 is going to dictate your final grade and where you ultimately end up next April. So there is a certain amount of, okay, I want to get a firm opinion on these guys now, but then also keeping an open mind to, okay, what there's going to be changes. Guys are in different situations. Guys get better. I mean, we're talking about 21 year old guys. They get better all the time. Not everyone, but a lot of players will get better, especially, especially quarterbacks. You know, I think a lot of people, and we'll get to some of these quarterbacks a little later, but a lot of people, their first exposure to Drew Aller or Kade Klubnick or Nuss Meyer like their first exposure to these guys, that's what sticks with them. Instead of really watching these guys over the years seeing improvements they've made and then keeping an open mind to what this upcoming year will bring. So I think that's really important. It's, it's, it's a fine line of having a firm, confident opinion of a player but then also keeping an open mind that hey, these guys do get better. And so yeah, looking at this year's class as I'm putting together my top 50, I, I think that like this is, I'm not going to like knock this draft class but I'm going to say it's not, I don't think it's 2011 where we had like not one.
- [17:41]
Dave Hellman
Of the best of all time.
- [17:42]
Dane Brugler
Yeah like the first, the first like 10 non quarterbacks were all pro bowlers and like 12 of the first 14 or whatever it was or even like 2020 where Micah Parsons wasn't even a top 10 pick that year. So you know, I don't think it's, I'm not going to go out and say we're in for that type of draft but I think that there's certain positions like like most drafts certain positions are more promising than others. Like offensive tackle, loaded. I think pass rusher has some promising guys. Quarterback like I mentioned, it's a big step up from last year. So you know, it'll be interesting those early observations, the promise that they tease who's going to emerge this season. So putting it into that top 50 I felt like there were certain guys at the top like maybe the top seven I was really excited about as being that top tier. And then 8 to 25 are kind of in their own tier. And then 26 to 50 where it's a little more open ended where I could make a case for a lot of guys fitting in that mix.
- [18:45]
Dave Hellman
It's a perfect segue to dive into some player previews. Let's do that. Let's take an early break and we'll do that on the other side. People keep asking me about my 20, 26 resolutions. Sure, I've got the usual goals. My reading list is a mile long. I've got to get in shape for a wedding. Maybe I'll finally learn that second language. But this year there's a new one at the top of my list. Get comfy. That's where Bombas comes in. They're bringing serious comfort to all my everyday go tos. They've got me covered on the gym front. The all new Bomba sports socks are engineered with sport specific comfort for running, golf, hiking, skiing, snowboarding and all sport. This year I'm planning to be at the gym on the regular and these socks are perfect for it. They're cushioned where I need it most, sweat wicking and loaded with other tech features to keep me comfy and locked in. And for those everyday around the house resolutions, Bombas also has you covered with the comfiest footwear imaginable. Their new squishy Saturday suede slip on shoe looks perfect for comfort on the go. Maybe I can wear them to check out that new bookstore in my neighborhood I've been meaning to visit. And underneath it all, Bombas has the softest base layers that'll have you rethinking your whole wardrobe. Bomba's underwear and T shirts are flexible, breathable and buttery smooth premium everyday go tos that I won't leave the house without and for every item you purchase, an essential clothing item is donated to someone facing housing insecurity. One purchased one donated with over 150 million donations and count. Head over to bombas.com athletic and use code athletic to get 20% off your first purchase. That's B O M B A S.com athletic code athletic at checkout.
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- [21:01]
Dave Hellman
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- [22:43]
Dave Hellman
Okay, Dane, you teed it up perfectly. And by the way, if you are unaware, Dane has been sharing position previews on the Athletic for the last several weeks. They're all there. You can go look at whichever position you prefer. I think by the time this drops, Dane, quarterback will be out, I believe.
- [23:03]
Dane Brugler
Yep. It'll be out this week. So I'm sure it won't be controversial at all and you'll agree with all of them.
- [23:08]
Dave Hellman
So we'll get to quarterback. That's obviously the biggest position when it comes to hyping up a draft class. But so what I want to do, Dane, we're going to go through position by position. I read all your previews and I just want to start. Let's start with the positions that maybe are a little thinner or a little less robust than others. Right. We'll work our way up to some of the deeper, more exciting positions. But right now, before we've played a game of college football, let's start with some positions that look a little on the thin side. And I think it's interesting when you're talking about the hype that goes along with a draft class. Two of the positions other than quarterback that really build anticipation are the skill positions running back and receiver. And at least right now, is it fair to say that we're looking for a little bit more. Let's start with running back.
- [24:05]
Dane Brugler
Yeah, and obviously there's a lot to go through with this, but running back. Last year at this time, running back looked loaded. My August top 50 last year, Ash Agenty was the clear top guy and then right behind him you had a Marion Hampton. Ollie Gordon was a top 50 guy last year to start the season. Both of Ohio State's dudes were right there. So running back looked like a stronger position last year. This year there's a clear running back, one at the top and then I think a pretty cavernous gap to that next tier, at least for me based on the guys I watched. The top guy, Notre Dame's Jeremiah Love. Super instinctive athlete, springy feet, love the burst he's able to create conflict for tacklers. It's a lot of fun to watch. Last year in the FBS There were only two backs that averaged at least 6.9 yards per carry and had at least 14 touchdowns. That was Ash and Genti and it was, it was Love. And who knows if Notre Dame has a healthy Jeremiah Love for the playoffs, maybe they win it all. He has that type of impact potential. And I mentioned there were probably seven guys in that top tier for me based off of what I watched over the summer, Love was included in that top seven. So there, I do think there's a pretty big gap after him like running back two. I think it's wide open. Seniors, underclassmen. Nicholas Singleton at Penn State is my Top ranked senior, 218 pounds and it might run in the four threes. So that alone is going to keep him towards the top of the running back stack. But decision making, patience, a lot of the running back specific traits they need to be better in 2025. I know he's not God awful in those areas, but he's not above average, at least based off of last year's film. And then you know, like usual, it's an underclassman rich position. Right. So which underclassmen are going to show out at running back this year? Texas has two guys that are really talented. C.J. baxter, he's coming back from injury. The hype out of Austin on Baxter was Bijan level before he got hurt. So seeing him back on the field with, with Wisner will be a lot of fun to watch. You know, we'll see him in the shoe week one, which would be awesome. Oregon has to replace Jordan James. They brought in Makai Hughes from Tulane. So but just in terms of top 50 right now, love is the only back that really I, I considered for, for a top 50 this early.
- [26:36]
Dave Hellman
Which to be fair to Jeremiah Love, he's an incredibly fun player. I think, I mean if, if you're familiar with college football at all, you saw some of the fun stu year. Do you think this is a situation where when everybody and their mother hits the draft in 2025, we just don't know as much as we would prefer about the 2026 class.
- [26:58]
Dane Brugler
And, and that's a. It's a great point because running back. We had so many guys come out last year and we usually do right underclassmen, they usually come out early at the position. And so we saw a lot of running backs go in the top 100. There were some. Still some really good running backs. Cam Scatterbo didn't go to the fourth Jo games didn't go till day three. So there are a lot of running backs that I think usually go day two but just got squeezed out is just a numbers game. And so the sheer number of running backs we saw drafted last year in the first five rounds, I think that they're, they're definitely a domino effect here where there's some more uncertain spots. You know, Ohio State will reload at running back. You know, people's was their third. Third back last year. I think, you know, he'll have a excited to see what he could do this year. I mentioned the two Texas GU backs are coming back from injury. Haynes, Justice Haynes at Michigan transfer. So there's a lot of kind of wait and see like maybe this guy could be legit. So there. We have plenty of names for the running back position if we just want to, you know, talk about running backs. But in terms of proven top 50 top 100 guys, it's. It's a lot more wait and see then. Yeah, I definitely feel good about him in this area.
- [28:16]
Dave Hellman
Two things really stood out to me when I looked at your running back preview to that point. Makai Hughes at Oregon, who was at Tulane before, he's the only running back in college football who ran for 1400 or more yards last year and is still in school. And then Bryson Washington, the number five back on your list down at Baylor, he ran for a thousand yards in the Big 12 and was buried under a list of other guys that went probably. So. Yeah, I think with that amount of turnover, I'm excited by the thought that at least this feels like a position where once we've played five or six college games, there's at least the potential that we have a wildly different idea of this group that we do right now.
- [28:57]
Dane Brugler
No doubt, no doubt. And guys are coming off. Jay Knott was banged up all last year at Cal. He transfers to Oklahoma in that new look offense with John Mattier. So what will that look like, you know, there's a lot of guys that are maybe transferred or getting new opportunities or it's. The running back depth chart isn't as crowded as it was maybe a year ago. So, yeah, there are plenty of situations primed for a potential breakout.
- [29:28]
Dave Hellman
Similarly, I think you could say about the same about wide receiver, which it's. It's not to say that there aren't any good receivers in this class. But, but I mean, you already mentioned Jeremiah Smith. We can just put him off to the side. He can't go pro, unfortunately. Even if he would be a top three pick, it's not going to happen. So we have to sort through the rest of this group and there's some intriguing talents, but maybe not a bona fide top 10, top 15 pick. And while that might be frustrating in the summer, I think it's going to lead to a hell of a lot of fun conversation because I, I feel like this is a group where people are going to come to very different conclusions about how, how players stack up.
- [30:09]
Dane Brugler
Right, Exactly. I mean, give me, give me Malik Neighbors, give me Marvin Harrison Jr. Give me those guys. Obviously. But to your point, it will be fun to. Because there's a lot of names once we get to day two of guys that are kind of jockeying for position and trying to prove that, hey, I am worth a top 32 pick because wide receiver is always going to be the most drafted position each draft. You know, it's. It's the position outside of quarterback that will directly impact the scoreboard the most in creating those explosive plays. So. But this year, while I do think that day two has a lot of exciting options, it's just, it's light at the top. There's no way around it. I mean, two years ago, like I mentioned, Malik Neighbors and Marvin Harrison Jr were both top five overall players for me in that class. We had three top 10 picks that year. Brian Thomas was a late first rounder, Lad McConkey went early second. So it was just a loaded group two years ago. Last year it took a little bit of a step back, but we still had two top 10 picks with Travis Hunter, T. Mac. I think both those guys are gonna be studs right away as rookies this year. This wide receiver class, I think it's gonna be more similar to what we saw in 2019, which was the two receivers drafted in the back half around one and then the strength of the position coming day two. That year we had guys like A.J. brown, D.K. metcalfe, Terry McLaurin, Debo was a day two pick that year. So even though the receipt we didn't see a run on the that position until day two doesn't mean there's not good players guys that can really emerge. And so this year, my early wide receiver one, it's Arizona State's Jordan Tyson. Good size six to 200 pounds. He can separate on tape, needs to cut down on some of the drops, but he can win versus man coverage. He can be a threat after the catch. The Sam Levitt to Tyson connection, it's a lot of fun and so I can't wait to see that. Big 12 is so volatile in terms of just week in, week out. But I think Arizona State with the, the coaching staff they have, everyone's returning the that connection. Levitt to Tyson I think is going to be something that helps lift that program this year. Biggest thing really for Tyson, just can he stay on the field. His freshman year was actually at Colorado. His knee got obliterated this last year. He actually missed the Big 12 championship game and then ASU's epic playoff game that they nearly pulled the upset over Texas. He missed that with a collarbone injury. So staying healthy, playing in every game, that'll be an important step for him. And really Tyson, that was the only receiver that made my top 25, my early top 25. So between 25 and 50 there's several intriguing receivers, but you know, we have more questions about those guys. I, I, I heard a lot of surprise reaction when Chris Bell from Louisville ended up as my early wide receiver too. Six, one and a half, 227 pounds, runs a legit 4 4. He became a starter last year as a junior and first popped on my radar when studying Tyler Schuck. And you see the talent right away. He's just a young, young inexperienced player. He just turned 21 years old. Definitely needs maturing, but the traits are exciting. Carnell Tate from Ohio State, he's kind of next up in that pipeline. I've got more of an early second round grade on him than a definite first rounder. Like he's not quite on a mecca, Buka's level, but there's a lot of talent there. And with Jeremiah Smith receiving so much attention on one side, that should open the opportunities for Tate on the other side. Just obviously Ohio State breaking in a new quarterback. So some incons, potential inconsistencies there. Makai Lemon from usc, really savvy slot option, catches everything, snappy route runner, but you know, play strength. Is he a slot? Only those types of questions will pop up with him. So these guys are, you know, definite top 25 picks, but there's reasons to be excited about them. And there's a list of other names like Eric Singleton, Georgia Tech, now at Auburn, smaller player, but is exciting with the ball in his hands. Denzel Boston from Washington, maybe could this year's Jaden Higgins, you know, has the size, maybe not a burner, but has the size to be an X receiver. So it's a high volume of potential at the position and I expect to see a lot of fluctuation in the rankings at receiver as we kind of go through this process.
- [34:41]
Dave Hellman
Again, there's, there's, I just think there's a lot to get excited about as we go through a season. Like, I took notes on these guys as I was reading through your previews and this is, I'm paraphrasing you, but I was reading about Chris Bell and I was like, oh, so this guy's still figuring out how to play wide receiver, but he's six one and a half, 230 and runs a four.
- [35:04]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Four.
- [35:05]
Dave Hellman
That's incredibly exciting. Like if he can put it together from a technical aspect, I understand why you might be high on a guy like that.
- [35:14]
Dane Brugler
Yeah. And you know, I get, people talk about, you know, production and why was he more productive and, and you know, I think guys, they develop at different paces and he wasn't. It's not like he has no production. Last year he was, he was their second receiver. Now it's okay chance to show it on the field. And if he doesn't have a breakout this year, then obviously that grade changes. And then you. We talked about this earlier, but the idea of betting on traits and potential, that's why the early, The August top 50 often looks very different than the final top 50 because some guys live up to it, other guys don't. Don't. That's fine, you know, fluctuations part of this process. But with Chris Bell and talking to a scout about him a couple weeks ago, he mentioned how he just, there's maturing that needs to go on with him. And, you know, he's a guy that wants the ball and when he doesn't get the ball, you know, sometimes he can, you know, not be as, as thrilled. And so, but so he's a wide receiver. So he's. Exactly, exactly. So he is your typical receiver and it's just a matter of a 21 year old working through all that. So I, you know, I, There was no, there's no red flags with him that tell him he can't do it. It's just he needs to be more consistent now as a route runner and in that offense with coach Braum, you know they're going to put the ball in the air and they've got a stud running back, only a true sophomore. So, you know, that's why we're not talking about him yet. But Miller Moss comes in at quarterback transfer from USC who inconsistent last year as a first year starter for the Trojans. But in that Braum offense, I think we'll see the best out of him. So the opportunity is there for Bell to really that breakout a lot of people want to see.
- [36:57]
Dave Hellman
One last note I want to make and you, I mean you mentioned two of the guys on your list, Mai Lemon and Eric Singleton. And then on top of that, if like there are a few other guys like I'm looking at Dion Burks at Oklahoma, I'm looking at Harrison Wallace at Ole Miss. It seems like there's a lot of smaller, maybe twitchier slot type receivers in this class. I think that's, that's an interesting thing. I made note of where I was like, okay, so, so we're going to be having some arguments about who can play inside, who can play outside with some of these undersized receivers, if I had to guess.
- [37:29]
Dane Brugler
Yeah, and that's always part of it, especially with these underclassmen. A few of those guys, you know, you're down in Baton Rouge, I mean LSU obviously, they, they're known for producing receivers and this year they've got some really interesting ones. Nick Anderson is not that, that smaller guy. He's a big 6, 4, 2, 10 transfer in. Can he stay healthy? Big thing with him. But we're talking about the smaller guys. Aaron Anderson from LSU. 5, 9, 190. This dude is short, but he's not small. He is rocked up. And so what will his impact be? Berry and Brown transfer in the speedster 510-58-175. Is he a return specialist only or what kind of role will he brings that LSU offense this year? Chris Hilton Jr. A lot of scouts are bullish on him because even though he, he was banged up a lot last year, five, eleven and a half, 187 pounds, legit, legit four, three speed. And so if sigh. A lot of these guys won't have the size but they will have the speed. And I'm really hopeful we see Deion Burks healthy. He was one of my breakout guys last year, made my early top 50. He just couldn't stay on the field. He was Banged up the whole year. So now this year with, with John Matier taking over a quarterback, new offensive system, Dion Burks is ready to explode if hopefully he can just stay on the field.
- [38:56]
Dave Hellman
So to take it back to the top. You said Tyson as your top guy right now is like a mid-20s sort of player for you. So that's like you said, he's, he's.
- [39:06]
Dane Brugler
In the top 25. So like he'll, he'll probably end up in the teens by the time the top 50 comes out. I, I haven't finalized it, but he'll probably be in the teens somewhere. But it's not like he's a lock to go that high or even maybe could he end up going top 10. Sure. But he, there are plenty of things he'll need to do this year to kind of prove he belongs there.
- [39:27]
Dave Hellman
To, to bring it back to your point about the 2019 draft, which, yeah, it's, it's funny to look back and see how many of the second round players wound up hitting in a big, big way. Not to say Hollywood Brown was a bad draft pick, but yeah, when A.J. brown and D.K. metcalf and Debo Samuel go in the same draft, it's going to be something interesting to watch if any of these guys take it and run with it or if we're stuck in a situation like that where we're evaluating a bunch of guys bunched together, you know, at the, at the round one, round two level. All right.
- [39:58]
Dane Brugler
Nikhil Harry was, he was crazy first round.
- [40:04]
Dave Hellman
You know, we didn't have to bring him up. But yes, famously a first round pick.
- [40:08]
Dane Brugler
In 2019 and didn't quite work out.
- [40:11]
Dave Hellman
All right. I do want to dive into some of the exciting, some of the deep positions in this draft and what better place to start? Which I don't want to. You tell me if I'm getting ahead of myself, If I'm evoking 20, 23 with offensive tackle. Like, is it that exciting?
- [40:32]
Dane Brugler
Yeah, potentially. Offensive tackle, I think it's pretty clearly the top position that I've, I've watched so far. Now that's underclassmen heavy. So, you know, when you're talking about redshirt sophomores and juniors, it all depends on those guys hitting their potential and coming out and being a part of this draft class. But it's put it this way, it's the most well represented position in my top 50. I think there might be double digits. I mean, it's nine or ten. It's up there. So there's a Lot of underclassmen will need to be tracking closely. Last year, this year in terms of development, and I think it starts at the top with Kaden Proctor from Alabama. Six, seven, 360 pounds, just rare explosive power. The body composition's really unique. He was high on Bruce Feldman's freaks list for a reason. 32 inch vert at that size is silly. The main thing for him, I just, I want to see the same guy for the entire year and for all four quarters. I mean, the conditioning level needs to be consistent. So snap one looks like snap 75. You watch the Georgia tape, the South Carolina tape, earlier in the year, you see a top five pick, things get rocky. Later in the year, you throw on the Michigan tape, the bowl game, and it's like, okay, I, I want to see Proctor playing at the same level week in, week out. Opponent doesn't matter, who the opponent is, doesn't matter, you know, whatever's going on and you know, part of that just keeping his weight in check and because when he is, man, explosive power for days. Utah is going to be a team to watch this year. They've got the best bookend tackles in the country.
- [42:16]
Dave Hellman
I'm going to say, please talk to me about Utah having two of the five tackles that you decided to preview. That sounds very exciting if you're a fan of the Utah Utes and both.
- [42:27]
Dane Brugler
Were high recruits, they both were legit guys coming out that, you know, Michigan wanted them and you know, Notre Dame wanted them. There were a lot of teams vying for these guys. Guys, they go to Utah. Spencer Fano started a left tackle as a freshman and then moved to right tackle last year. And man, he just kicks ass. He moves well, plays with power. See, he's not the biggest or the longest guy, but the play demeanor, the, the execution is big time. Scouts see a top 10 pick and I agree. I mean he, he'll end, he'll be one of my top 10 players. And it's kind of like, like Troy Fontano when he was coming out of Washington and he was one of my top 10 players. I think he finished number nine on my final board. I was really big on him. That's the kind of feeling I get when I watch Spencer Fano. And then at left tackle, Caleb Lomu, terrific movement skills. He has left tackle feet, no doubt about it. And the way he can recover is just, it's big time, especially for a guy that was a first year starter. He was a redshirt freshman last year. Now does he get it? Need to get stronger. No doubt about it. That was what kind of kept me from moving him up higher on my list. But he's only a redshirt sophomore this year, so I'm very eager to see what kind of jump we see from him in 2025.
- [43:44]
Dave Hellman
That goes back to my point about how you weigh things that you don't know yet, right? Like you look at Caleb Lamu's tape and you're like, this guy needs to get stronger. But at the same time, you watch him and you think, yeah, Kyle Whittingham's got a pretty successful program there at Utah and they've got a pretty good track record of putting guys in the NFL. I'm very confident that a guy like that can gain play strength over the course of an off season at a place like Utah, which makes me all the more excited about what he might look like here when these games get fired up.
- [44:17]
Dane Brugler
Yeah, exactly. I mean, if someone like, if they want to put him Lomu in like the top 10 because they're projecting that out, that he'll reach that level in terms of play strength, I get it. But that, and that's where it's just, it's projection at this point. So a guy going into his third year, his second year as a starter, I'm just very excited to see what, what it could look like for him this year. I don't know, just looking at the Utah schedule, how many big time pass rushers they're gonna face. And so, you know, I wish there were, you know, more of that on the schedule, but I need to find my way, I mean, to find my way to Utah this year because I want to see these guys in person because they, they, they look awesome on film. Two of my favorite players that, that I did this summer.
- [45:03]
Dave Hellman
So I'm not trying to get you to put a draft board together today. Obviously this is a slow burn, but just, and that's, I'm curious about how we view the depths of these positions. So, for instance, receiver, we're looking at a guy who's a little bit further down in a, in a final top 50. Whereas Spencer Fano, you're calling him one of the 10 best players you've watched this summer. And obviously, I mean, all you need to do is look at a photo of Katon Proctor to understand why that's exciting. But we're talking about at least a handful of tackles that, that we should view as, I don't know, some of the best 12 or 15 players that you've looked at over the Course of the summer.
- [45:41]
Dane Brugler
Yeah. And so Proctor fo those guys will be top 10 and then if we extend it like top 20, I think that's all. Xavier Chaplin will be in there. Virginia Tech transfer. He's going to play at auburn this year or 67335 dude is massive and he can move. You see it in the run game, you see it in pass protection. Some flexibility issues show. But there's a lot of. He's another guy that's really raw. And so you're projecting how much with, with the coaching and the development. How much better will he get this year in 2025 if he reaches his potential. We're talking about him as a first round pick. The left tackle at Miami, Francis Mawinga. He's a future NFL starter. It size, strength, you see that. But, but some teams might look at him as a guard because it will help hide some of those inconsistencies that he put on film. But he's going to have every opportunity this year to prove that. Say no, hey, I'm a tackle at the next level. And those are, those are all underclassmen. So that's, that's, I think five names. We just mentioned all five underclassmen. We're talking about seniors. Drew Shelton from Penn State, left tackle. He's my top senior. He's been getting some first round love. Jude Bowery at Boston College. He's a guy that could maybe crack the top 32. Isaiah World @ Oregon, transferring from Nevada. There's a lot of names at offensive tackle that we haven't talked about yet that could emerge this year with another year. You know, I really like tackle at Pitt. Texas has to replace both their guys. But Trevor Goosby comes in and he started, he started the Arizona State game. He started one game last year. He's really, he's got a lot of traits to work with. So as a full time starter quarter this year, maybe we're talking about him in the first round mix. I can't wait to see him in Columbus week one. So yeah, even the, the tackles that maybe aren't thought of as first or second round guys yet, the potential says they might get there by the end of the year which it only strengthened this class even more, which I.
- [47:44]
Dave Hellman
Misspoke earlier it was, it was 24, not 23 where we saw seven tackles go in the first round of the draft. I think think it's you're, you're getting ahead of yourself to try to get that high up there. But this certainly looks like a group that has A lot of potential like this. This feels like a good year to be looking at offensive tackle play if, if your NFL team happens to need.
- [48:05]
Dane Brugler
One. Yeah, no, and I knew exactly which class you were talking about because that was a, that was a pretty, pretty legendary class that we talked about for a.
- [48:14]
Dave Hellman
While. We've done this for years, Dane. And you can typically, it used to be, be something you could say all the time, be like, look, if you want a great offensive tackle, you're out of luck if you don't have like a top 12 pick. And then that year just blew all of my priors out of the water. So I don't, I don't want to put that much pressure on 2026 yet, but we're starting in a good.
- [48:36]
Dane Brugler
Place, it sounds like no doubt. And I mean I was mentioning guys that emerged like at this time last year we knew Will Campbell was going to be a high guy. Like we knew he's gonna be a top 10 player and that, that, that came to fruition. But Arman member, he came out of nowhere. And it wasn't until I think it was November, right around Thanksgiving when I watched him for the first time and it was like, oh yeah, okay, this guy's a first round pick. And so when we get to October, November, December, it'll be interesting to see who else we're talking about in this mix as guys that could potentially go that early, which like I said, only would only strengthen an already loaded class attack.
- [49:16]
Dave Hellman
Tackle. There's two other big positions I want to preview in this draft class. That would be edge rusher and quarterback. We're gonna do it on the other side of one more break. That's called a tease, folks. We'll be right.
- [49:26]
Dane Brugler
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Dave Hellman
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- [50:58]
Dave Hellman
Days. All right, Dane, two positions that get people really, really excited. Let's we'll leave quarterback for last but let's talk about the edge rushers in this 2026 draft class. How how do we feel about it? Because it, it feels maybe there's not like a superstar Chase young sort of player that we can all circle ahead of time, but it does feel like there's a lot of guys worth being excited.
- [51:28]
Dane Brugler
About. Yeah, I think so. And that's definitely the optimistic way of looking at it, which I think is fair. Yeah, no Miles Garrett. Not even an Abdul Carter who you know, like last year he was the top guy from start to finish. Abdul Carter was my number two player in August and that never changed all the way through April. This year I just, I don't think we have an Abdul Carter, but there are several players that could come close when it's all said and done. Keldrick Falk from Auburn. Six six, £270. Power, quickness, very young. In a lot of ways he reminds me of Mikel Williams at this time last year because he looks the part. The flashes are there. One of the youngest players in the entire class and you're going to get a day one run defender who can hold up and make plays and then the potential as a pass rusher are really exciting. And so I mentioned those seven dudes earlier that lead off the top 50. Falk is one of them because he has that type of potential and really excited about what he could look like this year for Auburn. T.J. parker from Clemson. He's got juice off the edge. If you watch the pit tape, you watch the SMU tape, you see a locked top 10 pick. But then you throw on Texas or some of these other games and he disappears at times. So seeing better consistency out of him will be the key for him to because he can go top 10, top 15. Just want to see it more week in, week out. Oregon had three defensive linemen drafted last year. The lone returning starter Mateo Ui Angele, DJ's little brother. I gotta work on that but we'll get.
- [53:08]
Dave Hellman
There. I just like you said DJ use little brother is a badass edge rusher. Like that is a storyline that I'm really looking forward.
- [53:16]
Dane Brugler
To. 6 5, 270 yeah he's got a chance to really emerge and, and cement himself as a first round guy this year. LT Overton at Alabama really talented. Six, two and a half, 274 pounds. Another guy that's, you see the flashes, you see the body control and just he's different for, for that size. He's just not there yet in terms of technique, in terms of pass rush value. So a big step in 2025 that'll put him in the first round. So and, and kind of like I was mentioning with, with tackle, there's a lot of breakout candidates at this position. A lot of these guys probably won't but at least guys that tease their potential and say hey, I've got traits to work with now I just need to put a, put it together. More on film David Bailey at Texas Tech Big time transfer from.
- [54:08]
Dave Hellman
Stanford. I wanted to highlight David Bailey really quick and our, our purpose here is not to like we're not here to preview the college football season or like we're not worried about going to win the national championship on this show. But I do think it is a very interesting storyline what's happening out in Lubbock. Texas Tech famously dove into the transfer portal. They look like a team that is ready to punch above their traditional weight class and David Bailey is a very interesting prospect which he transferred from Stanford, only started two games. But I get why, I get why people are excited about him being a big piece of this Texas Tech team.
- [54:51]
Dane Brugler
Team. The arc explosiveness that he brings is just silly. You know, so he has that type of speed that you see on Sundays and so Texas Tech paid him a good amount of money to go to LCK and be a part of that, that defensive line and what they're building out there. And yeah, I mean really the overall conversation with NIL in general and just it's, it's fascinating how it, how it works and how know scouting in the NFL are still learning what it means for their process. Obviously you know, scouts don't care that these guys are being, are legally able to be paid. Like that doesn't matter. But I think it does give you a little bit of preview of okay what is this guy like when he gets money? Is he still working his butt off? You know does he still have that carrot, proverbial carrot, on a stick in front of him, even though he just got paid seven figures. And so in that respect, I do think IL is really interesting for, from an evaluation perspective to understand these guys when, hey, they do have money in their pockets and, you know, just to make sure football is still a top priority for them and understanding that this is the way to more money is by getting the most out of my football potential. And so a guy like David Bailey, who is still more potential than production, what does it look like this year for him now moving on to the Big 12 for that Texas Tech squad. I can't wait to see him. He could be. Be one of those guys that emerges this.
- [56:23]
Dave Hellman
Year. One of the scouting services we mentioned earlier in the show, I was looking at this. I counted eight draftable grades for Texas Tech. Now, obviously that's going to change over the course of the season, and I'm not trying to throw shade at Texas Tech, but this is a different animal than what you would typically associate with that program. I'm, I'm, I for one, am very excited to see how they look and whether some of these guys deliver on the potential that, that we see in them before the season.
- [56:53]
Dane Brugler
Starts. Well, it's fascinating to see these college programs mirror NFL front offices in terms of structure and having a general manager. And, you know, James Blanchard, he kind of runs personnel over there in Lubbock, does a great job. You know, it obviously helps that they've got the resources pouring in there now that help make the. The facility is the best that you can have and you have a payroll now with, with your paying players. And, you know, so it's just. College football is bizarre, man. And it's, it's still up to scouts to kind of weed their way through it and figure out, all right, what is this? How can we use this toward advantage to find the best.
- [57:35]
Dave Hellman
Players? It's, it's clearly, it's. It is so much the wild, wild west. And. Yeah, I.
- [57:41]
Dane Brugler
Mean. Oh.
- [57:41]
Dave Hellman
Yeah. You know, I was talking to somebody recently who was telling me, like you mentioned, teams don't want to give out out numbers on their underclassmen. And a huge part of that is because they're not trying to get poached by other programs by making.
- [57:54]
Dane Brugler
Things. Retention.
- [57:56]
Dave Hellman
Exactly. It is a wild world to live in. And I would guess it's going to change drastically again within the next five, six years. But navigating this space right now is a wild spot. But I don't know. I'm Intrigued by the potential here and I just wanted to throw out as long as we're talking about other programs. Keldrick Falk I couldn't help but notice Dane, going through your previews I saw the Auburn Tigers on a lot of these lists and it made me very curious what the ceiling is for this team because according to your summer evaluations they got a lot of dogs on this Auburn.
- [58:31]
Dane Brugler
Team. Yeah, I mentioned chaplain coming in at left tackle from Virginia Tech, Eric Singleton coming in the wide receiver Georgia Tech over to to the Tigers. But I still think the big question mark will be quarterback and that's where I it looks like Jackson Arnold, the former Oklahoma quarterback is going to be the guy, you know, Hugh Freeze and his offense could, you know, I think it's an upgrade compared to what Jackson Arnold was running at Oklahoma. But at the same time I, I've got a lot more questions than than answers when it comes to the quarterback situation and at the end of the day that's what dict and losses more than anything else. Even you know in the SEC where you know there's some defensive dudes and it'll be Auburn will have a not an easy road this year and so we'll find out pretty quickly how legit they can be or you know, with the 12 team playoff, one loss, two loss it those things don't matter as much anymore. You know, if you can reach 9, 10 wins you got a shot to get in the playoff. And Auburn, while I'm not going to pick them to make the playoffs playoff, they're at least throwing a lot. They're better than last year in terms of acquiring talent and trying to put the best possible product on the.
- [59:51]
Dave Hellman
Field. It's a perfect segue once again. You're such a pro Dane. And let's talk, let's talk about it. Quarterbacks drive the web hits. Quarterbacks are what get people pumped about a draft class. You could have the deepest, best draft class in the world and if you don't have at least a handful of good quarterbacks it's not going to matter to the general public. Public not speaking to you wonderful sickos listening to this. But let's just call it, let's just call it like it is. But fortunately we don't have to worry about that this year because we got a lot to choose from. Even, even if you don't want to mention Arch Manning which at this point I'm not even really sure we need to, I'm fairly confident he's going to return to school if I know anything about the Manning family, but even, even without him, this looks like a pretty loaded group. I don't like. Do you want me to list off the names? Where do you want to start with this. How excited should about this quarterback.
- [60:44]
Dane Brugler
Class? I think it's a really interesting class because there's no like, there's no Caleb Williams or like Drake May where we knew a year or two out. All right, this is a top three guy. They will be drafted somewhere in the top three picks. We don't necessarily have that guy this year that. No doubt about it, top three pick. But it's wildly more promising than what we had at this time last year at the quarterback position where it really felt like you had to talk yourself into those guys. Guys. I mean this time last year I think Carson Beck, he looked like an NFL guy in 2023 and then quickly regressed in 2024. I always liked Shador, but more as a low end NFL starter. You know, I, it wasn't like Shador was a lock top 10 pick from the start. Cam Ward. It was, it was great to see him realize more of his potential at Miami and really at Miami and really emerge as being a true number one overall camp candidate. But all in all it was rough and it was really the exact opposite of what we had the year prior where we had six quarterbacks drafted in the top 12. Last year, you know, we didn't get to our six quarterback drafted until day three. So it's just a wildly different quarterback classes this year. It's probably, it's somewhere in the middle but there's a lot of names that are going to be fun to talk about and really track their progress this year. And you know, you mentioned with Arch Manning how I, I still think we're not going to spend a ton of time on him necessarily this year where we're covering them every week. But you what you never know. So we at least have to mention him and say look and like. Okay, for my purposes going into the year where we have a small sample size, how do you possibly rank Arch Manning? We've been talking a lot about potential. He's my quarterback one going into the.
- [62:36]
Dave Hellman
Year. You liked what you saw though, didn't you Dan? I mean it might have only been two games but you were a.
- [62:40]
Dane Brugler
Fan. Exactly. It's. And it's not just because of the last name. It's. You watch us start against Mississippi State and you see natural quarterback rhythm that you just, you want to see in a quarterback. And so if I had a Bet on any of these quarterbacks right now, it would be Arch. And who knows, maybe time will tell. That was a wrong bet to make. But now, again, are we wasting time even talking about him? I. Probably. But look, things change. What if, what if he wins the Heisman? Or what if he leaves Texas to a national title? Or what if the Saints finish with a number one overall pick next year? The chances that Arch declares are very low. But you never know, there's still time, so we'll figure that part out after Arch. So my early quarterback two, it's another young player who the excitement is there. And Dave, I know as a, a avid SEC watcher, an avid LSU Tiger watcher, I don't have to sell you on Sellers. Lenora Sellers, South Carolina. You do.
- [63:45]
Dave Hellman
Not. No, you do not. At least. Okay, you don't have to sell me on the excitement. Let's put it that way. Like, I'm not, I'm not ready to talk about him in these very lofty terms. Like I don't know if he's like a top five pick yet, but I understand why people think he could be.
- [64:04]
Dane Brugler
First. Sure. Yeah. And okay, if the draft were tomorrow and you're going to take a bet on high ceiling players, I get it with Lenora Sellers because like he's not a one dimensional quarterback, but as a dual threat player, that's what gets you excited. Like he, as a passer, you see touch, you see velocity. His superpower is what he does with his legs and his. I don't think, with all due respect to Cam Newtle Newton, Jalen hurts. I don't think I've ever scouted a stronger quarterback. Some of these tackles that he breaks are, it just doesn't make any sense. And then you know, on top of it he has legit speed where he can erase those pursuit angles and, and make things happen. So it just, you feel like you're never out of it. Now obviously you want him to live from the pocket and that dual threat ability is kind of the, the backup plan. And so there are times where he will bypass a read speed and use his legs when you want to see him maybe hang tight for an extra half beat, find that open crosser, anticipate those windows coming open and that, that'll he, that'll come with time, right? That'll come with experience. He was a red shirt freshman last year, first year starter. Like he's still learning a lot of things. So yeah, you want the speed option and you want all these things to be part of the offense. But at the same time, I'm looking for that maturation from him here in year two, and, you know, hopefully he gets better consistency from the offensive line. It was dreadful last for the Gamecocks, but I just don't have to squint to see the talent with this.
- [65:36]
Dave Hellman
Guy. I love the way that football evolves because even, like, when I started really being part of the draft process, like, even then, and, you know, like, famously, as much as we love him and he's an incredible player, like Patrick Mahomes. People weren't sure what to do with Patrick Mahomes at the time that he was a prospect. And that was only eight years ago ago. And now we are chasing that so hard. You know, like you. The easiest way to become a force in the NFL is to find these quarterbacks that can play out of schedule, play on multiple different platforms, make plays with their feet. You know, I mean, it's not a coincidence that the three best quarterbacks in the league all kind of fit this description, and they all came into the league within the last. Last six to eight years. Right. And so I get why you're going to chase this, and that can lead you to make mistakes. I'm thinking about Anthony Richardson when I say that, unfortunately. But. But that does. That shouldn't put you off of the chase, because if Lenora Sellers can be one of those guys, it is worth the hype and it is worth the investment. We just gotta find out if he.
- [66:50]
Dane Brugler
Is. Yeah, I think Josh Allen is the guy that, like, for sure, think about what he was in college and, like, you think about his trajectory. Like, there were so many question marks, but you bet on the person, you bet on the raw talent. And yeah, it's not a foolproof plan, but at the same time, you know, you can understand. And it's not just, if watching tape was all you needed to do, this job would be a lot more simple than it is. But obviously, especially when you talk about quarterbacks, the intellect, the way they see the field, the way they, you know, work around their teammates, their rock locker room presence, like, all these. These things factor in for all these quarterbacks. And so, you know, these are all boxes that we need to figure out and check throughout the year. So it is way too early to say, oh, yeah, Lenora Sellers should be a top five pick. But if the draft were tomorrow, I would certainly understand why a team would roll the dice on a guy with that type of talent and just that type of ability. It's just. It's the way he can Change a game. Talking about that LSU game that they should have won. The way he can change a.
- [68:00]
Dave Hellman
Game. Just for the.
- [68:02]
Dane Brugler
Record. Yeah.
- [68:03]
Dave Hellman
True. One of the stupider football games I've ever watched in my life. Okay, before we devolve into a controversial LSU South Carolina debate, all right, I want to go over this. Okay. Arch Manning needs no introduction. Neither does Garrett Nussmeier. Again, if you're listening to this show, I don't know what else we need to say about Garrett Nussmeier that we don't already know. Then we just have to watch more games. Kate Club Nick at Clemson, Sellers in South Carolina, Drew Aller at Penn State. Carson Beck's gonna have an opportunity to bounce back at Miami. Sam Levitt, who you've mentioned at Arizona State. Nico, I am ala. Is at UCLA now. Certainly. Like, the talent is intriguing, although I just don't think we've seen enough to have a firm opinion about it. Am I forgetting anybody big? I know a lot of people have been talking about Fernando Mendoza transferring from Cal to Indiana. Am I forgetting anybody big that we need to have an eye on this coming.
- [69:03]
Dane Brugler
Season? Definitely Mendoza. Like, I really like Mendoza as and I liked him at Cal. Watching him last year, like, he's just very even keeled. He's 6, 5 2, 25. He's got a feel for layering, layering passes down the field. So he's not a plus athlete by any means, but he's not a statue either. He can do some things with his legs at least to get himself out of trouble, even if it's not going to be a weapon for him. But I think he does a lot of quarterback things. Well, mentally, his processing, the way he sees the field. I just, I'm really excited to see what he can do with Kurt Signetti. I mean, you look at that situation at Cal, who he was throwing to, the offensive situation. He's going to Indiana where he'll have wide receiver talent. He will have a really strong presence, just offensive infrastructure in that program. Program. So I cannot wait to see what it looks like. I mean, Georgia was going after Fernando Mendoza with good reason because of the talent that he has. He starts the year as my quarterback 4. And as a guy that will. He'll be in top 20, in the top 30. Somewhere in my top. In my top 50 comes out. So I'm, I'm very high on Mendoza as a player that could emerge. I think it's, you know, we'll see the Penn State game. There's a lot of games coming up on that Big Ten schedule that I think, you know, he can really prove himself. Yeah. Looking at my other names. John Matier, we mentioned him a few times. What does he look like in that Oklahoma offense this year? Eager to see what that looks like. Taylon Green out of Arkansas, that some scouts are really excited about him. You know, he's, he's a bigger guy. He's almost.
- [70:47]
Dave Hellman
66. Say you talk about.
- [70:48]
Dane Brugler
Traits. Yeah, he can move. Good athlete. Yeah, he, he can, he loses his top, top two receivers, I think. And so there would be some, some turnover there. But you know, this is a big year for AR on that program. They need Taylor Green to step up. Wouldn't be surprised if in April we're talking about him as maybe that, that fourth round gamble that could really turn out to be.
- [71:11]
Dave Hellman
Something. How many? And I understand that as we're recording, you're not done with it. If you had to guess how many of these quarterbacks are going to be in your final top 50? Not you're not your final, your initial top.
- [71:24]
Dane Brugler
50. I think seven. So you know Arch Mendoza, Nussmeier Club, Nick Aller, and then Levitt. Yeah, I. And will all seven of those guys live up to it? Probably not. Some guys, they might be more 20, 27 draft players, you know, like Sam Levitt, you know, might be that type of guy. But I'm excited for what these guys have shown us that they can be potential first round picks. So again, even though this is not, we don't have a Caleb Williams, we don't have a Drake May, this is a at least quarterback group that you can get excited about. There's something about each one of these players that I think you can point to and say, okay, that's why he's going to be a starter in the.
- [72:10]
Dave Hellman
NFL. At the risk of sounding like a casual. I just think it helps you, it helps you put a draft class together so much if you have a group of quarterbacks that you can sort of build it around because like the, the importance of the position, position just helps you stack things up. Like if you've got two or three guys that you can count on to be top 10 picks. For me, it's just easier to visualize how everything else stacks up. As opposed to last year where a guy we talked about as a potential top five pick went in the fifth round, I mean, what do you do with that? That's, it's, it's hard to sort things out when you don't have clarity at the most important.
- [72:47]
Dane Brugler
Position. Well, and to Be fair. There's, you know, we'll see how it plays out. Maybe only two of these guys end up going first round. I mean, who knows how, how, you know, Mendoza could end up staying for another year at Indiana. Does Drew Aller take that next step? You know, he had his issues his first year as a starter in 23, took a big jump last year in 24. But like we saw in the playoffs, there's still way re or areas where he needs to get better. And so will he take that jump in 2025? Hopefully. Same thing with Kade Kubnick, who started off rough, started to come around last year in 2025. But what's his ceiling at the next level? That's where I think there are some. There's a lot of disagreement among scouts on Cade Klubnick and what his ultimate ceiling is in the NFL. Sellers and Arch Manning maybe both go back to school. You know, they're both really young players. So yeah, there's still a lot that we don't know about the 2026 quarterback class, but at least there's more excitement with these names that we're talking about as opposed.
- [73:49]
Dave Hellman
To. Except year ago, Roger Goodell just balled his fist at the suggestion that they both stay in school. Like, absolutely not. We need quarterbacks to drive this draft cycle, Damn it. All right, you mentioned, you just mentioned club naked Clemson. And so we're not going to do full position previews for all 11 positions. You can go look at Dane's previews on the Athletic if, if you want more. But there are some players we haven't hit yet that I do want to mention. And let's start with this big fella at Clemson, Simpson, Peter woods, who you seem to think very highly of. Your, your exact words in your preview were 90% of Jalen Carter, which is the type of thing that, you know, makes my eyebrows jump up, that's for.
- [74:33]
Dane Brugler
Sure. And I didn't say. I don't say that lightly. I spent a lot of time. Because that's. You see some Jalen Carter with the way he plays, I spent a lot of time saying, all right, what's the percentage I should put in here? Like, should I say 75? It's like, no, he's better than that. I'll go up to 90. He. He could be 90. Jalen Carter. I'm not going to say he is as good as Jalen Carter, but he could be close. And it's strength, it's movement skills. You know, you see the ability to break down blocks, be Productive. And it's against the run game. It's as a pass rusher. He just. His ability to rid himself of blocks and go make play plays is exceptional. And so he enters the year as player number one on my top 50 and we'll see how that plays out. But I feel pretty good. This is going to be one of the blue chip players in the 2026.
- [75:25]
Dave Hellman
Draft. It's really disheartening for me as an LSU alum to hear that Week one, let's put it that.
- [75:32]
Dane Brugler
Way. I'm not LSU clumps and it's at Clemson.
- [75:35]
Dave Hellman
Right? It is. I'm not optimistic. This is the least excited I've ever been about a season opener, if I'm being honest with.
- [75:42]
Dane Brugler
You. With.
- [75:42]
Dave Hellman
You. But we'll.
- [75:43]
Dane Brugler
See. Hey, we'll see. You got Nussmire coming back. There's, there's. We even talk about on defense, some of their guys with Whit Weeks and you know, what does Harold Perkins look like? But to your point, Clemson, they look.
- [75:56]
Dave Hellman
Nasty. They look really.
- [75:58]
Dane Brugler
Good. They do. Not even mentioning offense, but just on defense. They're going to have three guys in my top 20 with Peter Woods, TJ Parker and then Terrell at corner who is. Is undersized. But man, I, he just nat at a barbecue, man, he, he annoys the heck out of receivers and he, he will. He is pesky, he is physical. I love the way he plays. And so even though I want better size at the position, man, he's fun to.
- [76:28]
Dave Hellman
Watch. This is. This definitely looks like I just in time for them to open against lsu. This looks like a Clemson roster like we got used to seeing from 16 to 18 probably, you know, when they had top picks all over their D line. And.
- [76:41]
Dane Brugler
The. Yeah, AJC is going to stop them. That's the thing. I think that's why a lot of people are saying they're legit national title contenders because you know, like Miami, they should be okay. Better than okay. I mean we'll see with Carson, Beck and how that plays out. Smu, you know, they bring them back a lot of the team last year that went to the playoff. So I mean it's not like it'll be a cakewalk for them. But I think Clemson, if we're just relatively speaking with the big 10 SEC, Clemson will have an easier road than say Georgia or Ohio State with their schedule and the way it sets up. Although LSU in the opener will be fun because lsu, that, that is a game, that is a matchup where I think we'll Learn a lot about both these.
- [77:27]
Dave Hellman
Quarterbacks. LSU hasn't won an opener since Joe Burrow was on the team. So I'm just. I'm just going to wait and.
- [77:34]
Dane Brugler
See. Come on, Brian.
- [77:34]
Dave Hellman
Kelly. Just going to wait and.
- [77:36]
Dane Brugler
See. Figure it.
- [77:36]
Dave Hellman
Out. One other name that I at least wanted to make sure we hit and if, if I have forgotten anybody, please fill in the gaps. But I do think we at least got to say the name. Caleb Downs. One of my favorite players in the last couple years in college football. He's my favorite thing in football is a safety who knows what's happening before the ball is snapped. They are so much fun to watch and he fits that bill. I know he doesn't have a ton of takeaways. I know that was one of your notes on him, but I don't care. The guy just teleports to where the ball is. He is such a fun.
- [78:08]
Dane Brugler
Player. Well, this will be a fascinating test case because we don't see safeties go early in the draft. I think if, for comparison purposes, I think we have to go back to Eric Barry maybe to find a guy that a safety who has playmaking skills really smart to show a lot of what Caleb Downs has, has. So I don't. He's not a lock for the top 10 and that's more about the position that he plays, more so than the ability and the talent. But yeah, you can't talk about the best players in this draft without mentioning Caleb Downs. You know, we saw Ashton Gente, a running back, go early in last year's draft. So, you know, it's not crazy to see a non quote, unquote, non premium position go early. Caleb Downs, if you're going to draft a safety early, this is the type of guy you draft early. But at the same time, like, I don't think he's going to run a 4, 3. The size is okay. It's not great. So like, I don't think he's going to get that pre draft bump, you know, like the combine testing and all of that. So it'll be really interesting. I think the coaches will be pounding the table for this guy and general managers will be kind of left kind of talking to themselves saying, all right, we love him obviously, but do we take him here at 5 overall or do we take the toolsy pass rusher or, you know, the, the raw tackle who might end up being a foundational for us, but we could take the guy that we know is awesome right now. And so there's going to be a Lot of Caleb Downs discourse over the next, you know, six months or so. But all I know is he's one of the best players in this draft, arguably the best defensive player in college football. So it'll be a lot of fun to watch him this.
- [79:52]
Dave Hellman
Year. I get that a safety needs to be special to be a big time draft pick, but we watched it in the moment and we knew it was dumb in the moment when Kyle Hamilton fell to.
- [80:02]
Dane Brugler
14.
- [80:03]
Dave Hellman
Yeah. And if you've. There's a lot of football to played but if you feel that way about Caleb Downs by April, stop overthinking this stuff. Like I, that would. I, I would be happy to draft this guy early if he builds on this season the way that I think he's going to. All right. Is there any, is there any other top graded player that we haven't mentioned that you think we.
- [80:26]
Dane Brugler
Should. We. I think we hit on all of the guys in my top 10. You know Jermod McCoy, the corner from 10 Tennessee, he is, he, he had a torn ACL in I think January and that's the only reason we, I don't think we've mentioned him yet. You know, when does he get back on the field? What does it look like? Is he 100%? So all those questions or those needs to be answered before we really start championing him, but he could be one of the best defensive players in this draft. No doubt about it. He was a lot of fun to watch last year for Tennessee's defensive defense, so he would definitely be one. And then if I was going to mention somebody on offense, I think that Kenyon Siddiq, the tight end at Oregon, I obviously had Oregon offense is going to look a lot different with Dylan Gabriel moving on. So you know, what does Dante Moore look like a quarterback. That all factor into Sadiq and in that next step he takes but a ton of ability. He's a really good blocker. I think people look at 64250 or you know, he's not the biggest guy but he's a really good blocker and he's an exceptional with the ball in the air. He, the movement skills, the body control, natural pass catching, it's there, man. He, he has a chance. If you told me that Sadiq was the number one pass catcher drafted next, next April, I wouldn't be shocked. And then that speaks to this receiver class like we've talked about. Not being a lot of high end guys, but also Sadiq just being a guy that might end up being a top 20.
- [81:57]
Dave Hellman
Player. In this draft, his touchdown against Penn State, which you linked in your tight end preview, was very, very special. I understand why you're saying this after just watching that one.
- [82:08]
Dane Brugler
Snap. Yeah, exactly. And again, not, not the biggest guy, but. And I, I loved Ferguson last year for Oregon, one of my favorite players last year's draft, we know they're going to use the tight end and so hopefully they. With the questions at receiver Evan Stewart, one of the top senior receivers down with a knee injury. Loses him. There'd be a lot of youngsters that there have talent, but maybe unproven. So do they lean a little bit more on Sadiq this year in the tight end position? Can't wait to see it because I think he's got a lot of ability, a lot of.
- [82:42]
Dave Hellman
Talent. One more question that I had for you about this. Just looking through your previews and you can't set your watch to this. It just depends on the year. But in recent years, you know, you'll, you'll have like Siobhan Ravel out of East Carolina last year. Quinon Mitchell, obviously amazing player coming out of Toledo. Harold Fannin at Bowling Green turned a lot of heads last year with what he did against Texas A and M. Obviously was a pretty high draft pick. I didn't notice a lot of small school players among the guys that you previewed and feels like it's probably a symptom of nil. Like, are all of the bigger programs just consolidating these guys or is there anybody on a smaller stage that, that we should be aware.
- [83:27]
Dane Brugler
Of? Yeah, and I think you, you, you nailed it. I mean, it's tougher to find these guys because they usually transfer up. Siobhan Revel, he turned down 500 grand from LSU and Texas and Penn State and all these programs that wanted him to stay at the ecu. And you know, I think, you know, two years ago or three years ago now, Tucker Craft, one of my favorite players, I mean, he was number like 35 in my August top 50 that, that year. Love Tucker Craft from the get go. And part of it, he, he chose loyalty at South Dakota State. He, Alabama, I think it was Alabama. I think they offered six figures for him to transfer to the sec. He stayed in the fcs. And so now I'm not going to blame a guy for taking the money and, and transferring up. We've got plenty of those guys. But it is tougher to find the quote unquote, small schoolers this year. The top FCS prospect is probably wide receiver out of North Dakota State. Bryce Lance, that, that last name might sound familia. That is Trey, Lance's little brother. 63207. Big athlete with, with receiving skills. He's got a chance to maybe. I think right now he's kind of viewed as a third or fourth round pick by teams now. Could he improve upon that? Possibly it'll be, you know, about the Senior bowl or Shrine bowl and, you know, going to all star games and testing well and those types of things. But he's got good size, good pass catching ability, so he's got a chance to be a starter at the, at the next level level. Among the group of five guys. Toledo, man, they got another dude on defense. Safety Emmanuel McNeil Warren, 63 and a half, 210 pounds, long, rangy. They've got balls. He's got ball skills. Credit to Jason Candle for his run on producing these guys. Not just recruiting them, but developing them and then convincing them to stay around. I thought this stat was pretty crazy. To lead. The last four years, they've produced five draft picks on defense. So 2022 to 2025, that's the same number of draft picks on defense they produced the la the previous 34 years. So 1987 to 2021, again, says a lot about Candle and you know, aside from our Mount Union connection, just, you know, props to him and what he's done in.
- [85:47]
Dave Hellman
Toledo. I was going to say Toledo has rapidly become one of those programs where if I see Toledo next to the guy's name, I'm like, okay, I'm listening. Like, y', all, y' all got a track record at this point. I'm ready to, I'm ready to.
- [86:00]
Dane Brugler
Watch. They do. And it's funny doing like all the research I do on these players. A lot of these guys, their first offer, like, they end up going to Alabama, but their first offer as a sophomore or whatever it was was Toledo. Like they, Toledo does a really good job dipping in the Florida and identifying these guys early and trying to connect, you know, and that's what happened with Quinon, Mitchell. Mitchell and you know, some of these other players, they, they develop that connection and then develop them on the field. Let them stay around. And so yeah, Toledo is one of those group of five programs that you certainly take, take notice when they're, they're. They've got a, they've got a.
- [86:39]
Dave Hellman
Dude. Something worth remembering when you're watching Max later on this fall. All right, that's basically it for the top 50, at least for now. Although real, real quickly. I don't know how much how in depth we need to go here, but by the end of this week, dude, we'll have college football on tv. Like week.
- [86:58]
Dane Brugler
Zero.
- [86:59]
Dave Hellman
Yeah. Is Saturday. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna exaggerate and say it's this crazy good slate. It doesn't really look that great from a draft prospect perspective, but at the very least with the track record that Iowa State and Kansas State have, I'll be at least interested to tune into that. I think great idea on this their part like Iowa State, Kansas State, both really solid programs, but on a regular college football Saturday, they're probably the sixth or seventh best game at best on TV that day. So play in week zero where you are easily the best thing going. And I know there's at least one guy that you're pretty high on for Iowa State that's going to be playing in this.
- [87:41]
Dane Brugler
Game. Yeah, there, there's quite a few guys that I think you know are legit prospects with Kansas State. They've got playmakers on offense, every Johnson quarterback, Jace Brown at receiver. I think the best prospect versus prospect matchup is in the trenches. What you were alluding to with Iowa State defensive tackle Dominique Orange. Six two, 328 pounds, huge hands, 34 inch arms. He's viewed as I think a top 100 guy by NFL scouts. He's gonna face Sam Hesh, the Oklahoma or the Kansas State Center. 6 4, 300 pounds. Love the way he uses play strength. He has size. He can sustain, sustain a little heavy at times, but I think the FBI is outstanding. So I gave draftable grades to six centers this year, six senior centers and Hesh was one of them. So Orange vs. Hess should be a good matchup to watch in that week one or week zero. I should say week.
- [88:38]
Dave Hellman
Zero. We've been doing it for a few years at this point and I still struggle with it. But like I said, I think that that's a better matchup than it than it would get crazy credit for on a regular Saturday. I'm looking forward to that. I don't know about Kansas State, Fresno State or Stanford, Hawaii. If you want to flex your, your draft brain, please feel free. But otherwise we can, we can move past.
- [89:00]
Dane Brugler
It. Well, there, there are definitely a few other individual players that I want to check out on week zero in Kansas. They've got a few dudes. Dean Miller is a tall, lanky pass rusher who he could be drafted, drafted late. Daniel Highshaw now the starter at running back with Devin Neal in the NFL. So we'll see how he does. And then another guy I'm interested to see a quarterback for western Kentucky, Maverick McIver. Draftable grades are on the leak. Texas Tech transfer, Abilene Christian transfer, really good football processing. Won't be surprised if he puts up those some big stats and that.
- [89:39]
Dave Hellman
Hilltop. And this is exactly why you come to building the beast. This is, this is what it's all about. Eight months from.
- [89:45]
Dane Brugler
Now.
- [89:45]
Dave Hellman
Exactly. You'll be able to find those guys in the position listings. All right. And at week one, obviously headliners galore. It's as, it's as good as it gets. Texas, Ohio State, Alabama, Florida State, lsu, Clemson, Notre Dame, Miami, those are the headliners. I don't think you need anybody to tell you to watch that if you're interested in the draft. There's going to be guys on both sides of the ball. I get. Does, does anything in particular about that stand out to you? I mean obviously everybody's going to be watching Arch Manning to see how he handles not just his debut but Ohio State on the road of all places. Is there anything.
- [90:22]
Dane Brugler
Else? Yeah, I mean I think just we talked about, just talked about Caleb Downs, but I want he's I think to me the key for Ohio State because Ohio we know with breaking in Arch Manning a new quarterback, they're going to be heavy on the run game and so Caleb Downs being able to identify that make plays these, both these teams they lo Ohio State had 14 players drafted last year, Texas had 12. So not only do we have two new starting quarterbacks, but a lot of new faces and two programs that recruit and produce NFL talent as good if not better than most. So I think my only gripe about this game is it's at noon instead of of a night game. So thanks Fox for that but little bit of a bummer. Fox, it is a name to watch too. We saw Gunner Helm emerge last year for Texas and with first year starter quarterback with Arch Manning we know and Sark the way he likes to use tight end, I think we could see a nice emergence for Jack Enduries transfer from Cal who is a smooth athlete, good ball skills. Want to see him get better as a blocker, but we could see he could be one of those breakout guys this year at tight end with the opportunity and then also the talent that he.
- [91:45]
Dave Hellman
Has. I'll be watching it with my emotions invested. So take that with a grain of salt. But objectively, objectively as an analyst, Garrett Nussmeier and Kade Klubnick have every reason to hope that they can be QB1 in this draft class. So to see those two guys go against each other on national TV in week one, it's. It's what dreams are made of. Is there anything before we get out of here, Dane? Like I said, I don't, I don't know if you need in depth previews of all of these NFL loaded rosters. Is there anything more under the radar, anything below the headline level that you're really excited to see in week.
- [92:23]
Dane Brugler
One? Well, I. Because Florida State was so bad, historically bad last year, I think, you know, it's easy to overlook them. But I think that Alabama, Florida State game could. There's, there's dudes to watch. So another trenches battle that I think to pay attention to. Alabama guard Jaden Roberts vers Florida State defensive tackle Daryl Jackson. What? These are two NFL guys, so that'll be a lot of fun to see them go at it. Roberts, potential day two player. One of the strongest guys that I watched this summer. 6, 4, 325 pounds. He excels at fitting up, owning blocks, driving guys out of the picture. He'll be tested in this one because. Daryl Jackson for Florida State, six' five, 340, 35 and a quarter inch arms, 11 inch hands. This dude is massive. He's bully strong, hard to move, powerful at contact and a better athlete than you would think for a guy that size. So he actually made my top 50 last year at this time based on the traits. Didn't play up to it. 2024, there's a lot more hyper, not a lot more height, but a little more promise. I think based on what the coaches have said about what he's going to show in 24, 20, 25. So Alabama, Florida State, even though that may be, you know, because of Florida State wasn't as good last year. There are some NFL guys to watch in this one. So. Yeah, keep an eye on that. Notre Dame, Miami is going to be fun. Lsu, Clemson, it's all about the quarterbacks, right? So that's. I cannot wait for week one of college football. There's from noon until night and then even on Sunday and Monday there's going to be something for us to.
- [93:54]
Dave Hellman
Watch. It's going to be a great weekend and it's going to be a great season, my friend. And we will be.
- [93:58]
Dane Brugler
Here. I can't wait all the way through.
- [94:00]
Dave Hellman
It. We will. We have an episode every single week. Although we won't have an episode next week. We're going to wait. You know, there's only four or five games in week zero. So we're going to, we're going to wait until the week one games are played. So Labor Day, we will be back with our reactions from week one and we will be with y' all through the entire 2025 college football season, talking prospects, talking teams, whatever comes up in between. Dane, I'm, I'm so excited to be back with you, man. I'm looking forward to, to doing.
- [94:29]
Dane Brugler
This. I cannot wait. This is going to be a lot of fun. I know just based off of the comments when you said we were recording today, I know a lot of people are looking forward to this. So we, we'll be doing this. Yeah, weekly between now and the 2026 draft. So this is, this is going to be a blast. And so I very excited to go on this journey with.
- [94:52]
Dave Hellman
You. You and me both, man. And we're excited to have you all along for the ride as well. We will talk to you in about two weeks and then every week from there on after that. Looking forward to it until then. We'll talk to you soon. We appreciate it. Thanks a.
- [95:05]
Dane Brugler
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Dave Hellman
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Dane Brugler
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