← The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL
The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL
The Beast is Built! Hidden gems in the 2026 NFL Draft class
01:02:07
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- [00:00]
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- [02:11]
Dave Hellman
welcome to an all new episode of Building the Beast. I am your host Dave Hellman and it is a special episode because if you can hear this, then you can log on to theathletic.com and download the Beast. It is Beast release day. Dane Brugler's exhaustive comprehensive 2026 NFL Draft Guide is finally available just in time for stretch before this 2026 NFL Draft on April 23rd. And to celebrate, we did a fun throwback episode of the show. As we've talked about many times, Dane and I go way, way back over the years and we decided to bring on our old buddy. From the beginning of our draft coverage days, our friend Brian Broadus joined us to work through some hidden gems in this year's draft class. We wanted to talk about players that maybe aren't getting their fair share. That's potential first round prospects. That's good value picks to be found on day two. And of course, in the spirit of the Beast, we had to throw in some day three sleepers as well. A really, really fun look through the draft with our guy Brian to celebrate the release of the Beast. It is finally here. Without further ado, let's get it going. Well, Dane, before we dive into this episode, let's, let's just address the elephant in the room. Merry Beast. Miss Happy Beast Day. Like, what's the term we're using here? The Beast is finally available for public consumption. If you're listening to this right now, you can go download it. You can go look through the whole thing. It's over@theathletic.com the beast. I know how much work goes into this thing, man. It must be, it's gotta be a really gratifying day, man.
- [04:00]
Dane Brugler
It's so exciting to be able to share this year's Beast with everybody. I've been working on it for over a year now. It's always a passion project of mine. If you've seen the Beast before, obviously you know what to expect. If you haven't seen it, you know you won't be disappointed. The goal every year is to make it bigger and better than the year before. And I think we did that on multiple fronts. The PDF version is I think 627 pages, something like that. There's over 400 reports, almost 28, 800 players ranked in the beast. NFL verified testing information for all 2800. So all the pro day information is in there. That that's one of the reasons why it takes so long before we able to get this out and share with everybody. But I mean even the level of detail I think from the background is more this year than we've had before. Hundreds of quotes from scouts about who these kids are as, as people, are they a leader, different things like that kind of a peek behind the cur, how coaches and scouts are talking about these guys. Even the art and the digital design is a big upgrade from what we've done in the past. And there are so many people behind the scenes that work tirelessly to make it as accessible as possible. Just in terms of navigation, make sure it looks as awesome as it looks. So a big thank you to them. So yeah, if you're a casual fan, a die hard fan, I think there's something in here for everybody and plenty to digest here these next two weeks. Then of course, have by your side all three days of the draft.
- [05:35]
Dave Hellman
I've always wanted to know this. I know you start watching tape for the upcoming year over the summer. You've obviously been working on it the whole time we've been doing this show and you just finished writing the final words like days ago. But when did you write like the first report? Like, when do you write like the first words that you would call the beast? What month does that happen?
- [05:56]
Dane Brugler
Well, I think the, you know, the notes start really June 1st. That's when I really dive in. But in reality it starts months before that because as I'm doing all of this work, you can't help but when you're talking to a scout or a coach or whoever, they bring up somebody for 20, 27 or a future year. And so, okay, you're making these mental notes or actual notes of who these guys are. And so when I, the month of May, I kind of take a step back. And then June 1st, when I dive back in for the next upcoming class, I've got a full, you know, a couple pages of notes that I can go by and really kind of get me started. And so the summer is where you laid that foundation. And then during the season is where you kind of make the changes based off the updated tape. And then, you know, probably around Halloween is when, okay, I've got, you know, half a season of this player based off of what I thought of him over the summer. Now I can really go in and, and write something. You know, who this, what I think the scout report's going to be. And then obviously it tweaks. It's, it's tweaked throughout the process. But yeah, it's, it's really is a full year type of deal.
- [07:04]
Dave Hellman
It's the best draft guide in the industry. I can't wait to have My hands on it. And it's so cool how much work, knowing how much work went into it. Which, by the way, our wonderful producer Katie, I think throughout the show is going to be putting QR codes on the screen. So if you're watching this, you can go scan the QR code, it'll take you to the Beast and you can download it for yourself. I think they'll be doing that throughout the episode, which I wanted to say that before I brought in our guest because we've now got a QR code for the digital version of the Beast. And the guy that's joining us today is our old friend and colleague who was with us, Dane, when the Beast was a PDF that you sold for $10 a pop all the way back in 2014, 2015. So without further ado, bringing on our old buddy, our old draft show alumni, Brian Broadus. You can find him doing radio in Dallas Fort Worth on 105 through the fan. You can find him talking draft over at Crown Global Media. Longtime NFL personnel guy, director of player personnel, NFL scout, Super bowl winner with the packers brought us. Is that a good enough intro for you? I don't know, man.
- [08:16]
Brian Broadus
You did a great job. David. I always said to everybody if, when I go, when I leave this earth, I want you to do my eulogy and you agreed to it. So I'm going to hold you to that, my friend. But no, it's a, it's a real, a real honor, privilege to be with you guys. It's so funny to listen to you talk about the Beast and you said it was. Dane was selling it for $10, actually selling it for $7 with the link and stuff.
- [08:41]
Dave Hellman
I charged it.
- [08:42]
Brian Broadus
I'm so sorry, I've charged it. But I'll, I will never forget the, that we talked about the Beast. I'm responsible for the name of the Beast. And when we went way back in the day on this one and just knowing that the work that Dane had done on was such a privilege to be a part of that, the early days of that and how much people and you're right, man, you're talking about all the things that went into was just a simple. It was just simple words and pages. It now it's got all the bells and whistles and everything about it. So it's amazing to where it started to where it's now, where it's now at.
- [09:29]
Dave Hellman
As long as we're going down memory lane, here's my 2018 beast with Quentin Nelson on the COVID There you go.
- [09:35]
Dane Brugler
I think brought Us probably had that printed and bound for us. Right?
- [09:39]
Dave Hellman
Yeah. We did this in the Cowboys mail room. Double sided.
- [09:43]
Brian Broadus
Yeah.
- [09:44]
Dane Brugler
We can finally admit that. Right? It's.
- [09:46]
Brian Broadus
I tell you what, man. Was. Yeah. No one's listening. But yeah, that was. I seriously with the link. I just remember like, okay. And talking about it. We were doing the draft show. We were always promoting it on the draft show and like listen if you want an opportunity. And Dane was handling all that and it was, it was so cool to see the growth of it but it was even cooler to see the growth of Dane Brugler to where he is today.
- [10:11]
Dane Brugler
Well, hey, I, I mean I can't. I wouldn't be here without your help. Both of your guys's help throughout. Over the years promoting it and pushing it and Yeah, I mean I, I remember when, you know, it started the Beast moniker started and I kind of, I pushed back on it a little bit. Like I don't know, maybe it's a little too self serving. Like it's a little like I don't know. I mean, you know me, I'm. I'm not a. I'm not a look at me type of person. Yeah. That's just not me. And so I kind of push back on it. But then, I mean, you know, there's so many people that, you know, follow what you say brought us. And so when you just kept pushing it, pushing it and everyone. It was like wildfire. People started picking up on it and I was like, all right, you know what, this is a good way to. Maybe it's motivation or you know, just to make sure if it's going to be called the Beast, it better live up to that every single year. And so that. That's just a little extra motivation every year to. To make sure we reach that bar.
- [11:06]
Brian Broadus
Well, no, it was like I said, it was so much fun to be a part of that where you were working on that thing. I mean it was. And I'll tell you this, I'll tell you a story. And maybe Dane won't admit this but Gil Brandt of the Dallas Cowboys, my man Gil Brandt was always on me and he always would get on me about. He's like, when's Brugler going to have the Beast ready? When Brugler. Here's a guy. Legendary hall of fame player personnel director. My. Some of my greatest times I have in Cowboy season tickets from 1972 until, you know, until I started work with the Green Bay packers there in 1992. That Gil Brandt was like my guy. Like I Gil Brandt was my. My, my. The guy that I looked up to as a far as an evaluator and stuff like that. But here he is asking me every day. He would call me, when's the Beast going to be ready? When's that Brugler kid going to have the Beast ready? When's Dang going to have the Beast ready? And so many a day of having, like, Gil, you just. You got to let it. It's going to be there. We're going to get it there. It's going to be okay. We'll be fine.
- [12:20]
Dane Brugler
That's really the, you know, hearing from some. My buddies are on the league and different people. I mean, just people I've never talked to before, sending me messages when it comes out. Scouts or personnel, guys, like, that's. That's the ultimate.
- [12:34]
Brian Broadus
Oh, it's the ultimate compliment, for sure.
- [12:35]
Dane Brugler
It really is because that's. I do my job as if, you know, I was working for a team and it's. I put a lot into it to make sure it's the most comprehensive, the most detailed. And, you know, I. The fact that, you know, teens are looking through it. And I was talking to Scout the other day how the only. The only thing he does not like about it is he gets pissed when there's something in there that he didn't know about that. You know, like it's in his area and he didn't. He's reading it for the first time. That's the only time he does not like what I do. But again, I. I take it as
- [13:08]
Dave Hellman
a lot of respect and there will be. I'm. I'm positive of that. All. Okay. We're.
- [13:13]
Brian Broadus
All.
- [13:14]
Dave Hellman
We're very happy about the Beast and we're very proud of Dane, but this is a little too kumbaya for me to be.
- [13:21]
Brian Broadus
Show starts at 10 minutes. That's the thing. If you want to. That's what I get all the time. Everybody says, hey, when you. When you're complimentary to somebody, the show actually begins. If you want to skip to 10 minutes, here we are. Yeah.
- [13:32]
Dave Hellman
In the interest of reprising the draft show and the fun conversations that we used to have, Brian Dane and I thought a fun theme for today would just be hidden gems of this draft class because that's. That's what the Beast is. I mean, obviously we care about the top 10 prospects in this draft, but we want to go deeper than that. That's the goal on this show. And so I thought it would be fun to have some conversations about some hidden Gems. I wanted to split it into three categories with y'.
- [14:00]
Dane Brugler
All.
- [14:00]
Dave Hellman
We're going to do first round picks that could surprise us. Like, of course, we're not just purely going to talk about day three guys. I want to talk about maybe those fringe prospects we always see. Every year. There's a guy that's going to get drafted somewhere in the back half of the first round. That makes a lot of people go, oh, hey, all right. That team liked him a lot more than people thought. So I'd love to go through that sort of category with y'. All. I'd love to talk about maybe underrated. Day two guys. Guys that are probably gonna wait until Friday to hear their name called, but maybe somebody that you're really willing to stand on the table and get excited for. And I also want to do some true day three sleepers, like guys that really aren't getting their. Just due right now.
- [14:44]
Dane Brugler
Who.
- [14:44]
Dave Hellman
Who you're really excited about. So does if. If that sounds good to y'.
- [14:48]
Dane Brugler
All. I don't know.
- [14:50]
Dave Hellman
Dane, it's. It's your day. Let's start with you. I want to talk to you about maybe some surprising back into the first round guys and. And me and Brian can argue as we see fit.
- [15:01]
Dane Brugler
Yeah. And obviously there's a million mock drafts out there. So I'm sure some of these guys we're going to talk about are popping up maybe in a few of them. You know, it's hard to find that. That true. Cole Strange. That was like a true shocker that might.
- [15:17]
Dave Hellman
That might never happen again. Like that degree of shocking.
- [15:20]
Dane Brugler
But in a draft like this where it's kind of a little weak at the top and it. But that. That second tier, second and third tiers feels like there's a lot of names in there and the order is all over the place depending on who you talk to. So I. I do feel like there could be a few. I. I'll start with a few of the interior offensive linemen in this class. I think there's. There's three guards that I wrote down. Obviously. Venga Yoane, Penn State guard's going to go early, but that second guard off the board, who is it going to be? And could it be one of these surprise names? So I think there's a very good chance Chase Besantis at Texas A and M goes in the first round. Depend or just based off of how I. How certain teams feel about him. They. They think he's going in the late first round. And then two other names. I want to throw out there, Keelan Rutledge from Georgia Tech, Jennings Dunker from Iowa. I think both those two players would be, you know, names we don't hear a lot about in first round mocks, but if they ended up going sneaking into that late first, I wouldn't be surprised at all.
- [16:25]
Dave Hellman
This is now the second or third time I've heard Rutledge's name over the last few days. Like, I mean, and this is the time of year where people like you, Dane, who are talking to people are getting tidbits that maybe not everybody was privy to. So I'm. I'm making a mental note of that. Brian, what. What do you think?
- [16:43]
Brian Broadus
Yeah, I think the thing with Rutledge, I. And I have every one of those guys that he mentioned, I have them all kind of grouped together, you know, on my stack. So I was trying to kind of like now when I get down to the final bit of the stack, going through my notes and stuff, how do I have them actually, you know, how I have actually had them lined up? I, I don't know about you guys. I really struggle with this offensive line group this year and maybe it's because I'm so spoiled with the, with the. What we've seen in the past three, four years. I would like to say that to me with this group and you mentioned about the inside guys in a drafts of years past, maybe these guys aren't talked about like this. Maybe they're not talked about possible, you know, back end of the first round. I just feel like to me there's this. It's like there's like one or two guys that are really, really kind of high on and then everybody else. I'm trying to figure it out. I, I think there's a reason why Cleveland's talking about moving. I don't think anybody's. Listen, I'm going to be real honest. The whole thing with guys like Freeling, you know, from the tackle from Georgia, first time I ever saw his name. Dane did a mock draft. I think one of your first mock drafts you had. First one, yeah, him at 25. And I looked at Vaj Lombardi, who I do work with, and I said, have we done this kid from Georgia? Dane's just mocked him in the. As the on at 25. And no, we'd work through a lot of these tackles and stuff like that. But all of a sudden here are these guys like a Freeling, you know, that's. He goes from 25 to now teams are talking to him. If you like people mocking him at 6 to Cleveland. You know, everybody's saying, oh, Cleveland wants this guy, but they want to trade back because. But that's, I think that's what this, this class of offensive linemen are kind of looking at right now. I just don't think it's. Listen, I can't with any certainty. If I had to draft you an offensive lineman right now, I think I'd have some real, real issues with it. I like the names that Dane mentioned. I personally would not take either any one of those guys in the late one myself, but I understand why teams might do that.
- [18:58]
Dave Hellman
Man, I, I guess it depends on where, but in particular, I got excited when Dane told me he was going to mention Chase Besontis. I just, I don't know. I, maybe it's because of the amount of A and M tape I've watched because they have so many guys, but I just think he is a ready made player. It's. I, I really, really enjoy watching him. And like if you told me that a team that had a need could plug him in, especially again, I get excited at the back of a round because it's a lot of teams that have made the playoffs in the previous season and I just like, yes, please, plug me right in. I mean, I know this isn't first round, but I know 37 to the new York Giants is a spot where Bezos is, is commonly mocked. And I get excited in, in a situation like that. If you told me a team that
- [19:46]
Brian Broadus
should make you feel, that should make you feel bad with the Giants picking this guy at that spot because the Giants have tried forever to grab offensive linemen and we could go, we got
- [19:56]
Dave Hellman
to get it right eventually, right?
- [19:57]
Brian Broadus
We got to go back to second round. Will Hernand from utep, you know that this, this team has struggled with offensive line play. And I'll say this about Santis if I could. I think the longer he has the block, the more problems he has. I don't see a great finisher here. I really, really don't. And I could. I listen, I get it. The guy's a at 6, 5, 3, 15, I think is what we're working with. But I think there's some. He gets a little top heavy the way he plays. You know, like to say the run block and stuff I think is okay. The lateral slide, things like that. I, I don't know about that. You know, like I say, if you're talking about, if you're Talking about late 1 second round guy, I would, I would, I would be a little Bit. I'd be a little bit scared on this one.
- [20:45]
Dane Brugler
Short armed guy, right? We don't see a lot of offensive linemen with under 32 inch arms drafted in the scout.
- [20:51]
Brian Broadus
Tell me this, how many times do you see an offensive lineman extend his arms?
- [20:58]
Dane Brugler
What do you mean extend?
- [21:00]
Brian Broadus
Fully extend on a defensive lineman. Fully extend. If, if these offensive linemen are fully extended on guys. And I listen, it's, it's a thought. It's a thought. Fully extension usually ends up being over extension, to be honest.
- [21:16]
Dane Brugler
Sure, sure. I mean that's every, every inch counts. Let's, let's be honest like, especially when, you know, in keeping guys in front of you, you know, reaching them before they reach you or keeping a guy going through the A gap, you know,
- [21:31]
Brian Broadus
like these guys do a great job of keeping themselves small lane. We, we're good. You, you talk about, look at, look at the way Bain plays. You watch 17 games of Bane playing. He has figured out how to play without with short arms and he's figured out how to keep long armed offensive tackles from getting his hands on him. You know, like I said to me, and I, I understand, I mean there's a, there's a big thing to be made about, you know, but every time I've ever seen a blocker fully extend, that seems like that blocker is like, like way out of balance right now.
- [22:06]
Dane Brugler
It's usually the short armed guys because they have to fully extend to, in
- [22:10]
Brian Broadus
order to reach, but not everybody fully extends.
- [22:13]
Dave Hellman
Right.
- [22:13]
Dane Brugler
Well, and that's what I mean. I'll put it this way. If length didn't matter, you watch, you
- [22:18]
Brian Broadus
watch, you watch, you watch the kid from, you watch the kid from A and M. The tackle, the, the right tackle. You watch him like crown over.
- [22:26]
Dane Brugler
Crown over.
- [22:27]
Brian Broadus
Yeah, yeah. You watch him catch blocks all day with long arms.
- [22:32]
Dane Brugler
I mean, look, hey, in no way is long talking about this guy. Sure, and he'll go in the fourth round, but in no way is lengthy.
- [22:40]
Brian Broadus
He'll go fourth round. He can play guy. That's why I'll go. I mean.
- [22:44]
Dane Brugler
Yeah.
- [22:44]
Brian Broadus
People think, yeah, you guys make a big deal about these short arms all the time. You do?
- [22:52]
Dane Brugler
NFL teams do. Oh yeah, you do? No. Well, we do because NFL 17 weeks.
- [22:58]
Brian Broadus
Watch 17 weeks of Bane and tell me that, tell me a short arm guy that's not, is productive like that.
- [23:05]
Dane Brugler
There's a reason Bane is a historical outlier. Like we've never seen somebody like Bain before.
- [23:10]
Brian Broadus
And you don't take him. He's historically kicking your ass every year you know, that's.
- [23:14]
Dane Brugler
And if he. And if he does, that's. That's great. He'll still be a historical outlier. I mean, we. You don't ignore that, right? I mean, ask any scout why they have a measuring tape with them at all times.
- [23:25]
Brian Broadus
Like, we don't seem to get that. We don't. I don't know. We're having problems measuring arms at the combine for some reason.
- [23:30]
Dane Brugler
Yeah, they are. I. I don't know why I. That.
- [23:33]
Brian Broadus
That is, like, it seems like I have to wait to go to Tallahassee or College Station to get the arms right.
- [23:40]
Dave Hellman
This is exactly what I was after when I asked Brian on the show. All right, Brian, you. You don't like. You don't like the back end of the first round offensive lineman?
- [23:48]
Dane Brugler
Who.
- [23:48]
Dave Hellman
Who's your guy for the back end of the first round?
- [23:51]
Brian Broadus
I. Me, personally. Listen, I'm a. I am a big fan of. I. I love these safeties of who, where. And I'll tell you this. This. Trading stooks from Arizona is a guy.
- [24:03]
Dave Hellman
That dance guy.
- [24:05]
Brian Broadus
I feel like now. Does Dane like this guy? Then I'm. I'm totally switching my guy right here.
- [24:10]
Dane Brugler
No, no. Well, hey, I wrote down six names for this category, and Stukes was one of them. So, yeah, we're on the same page.
- [24:16]
Brian Broadus
There we go. If we're talking about back in. I mean, to me, you watch this kid play and the ability that he plays in, like, there's guys that. That, like, could cover and there's guys that could tackle and there's guys that can play down. Everybody's talking with Dallas. We're trying to figure out this hybrid position. We're trying. You know, we're trying to. We're trying to see if Christian Parker, was he going to play with this guy? How's he going to play with this guy? Is he. Does he have a guy on that? He's. That he's. You know, are they. Are they still hunting one of these guys? Dallas died on the nickel last year. They died. You know, they let Jordan Lewis go and they died. So now they're in a situation where they're trying to have to kind of make up. I think that Stukes, to me, when you watch him play, he seems like the guy, and there's several of them. But I like him the best of. Because of. Like to say, I like the way he plays in the slot. I love the way he's sticky, the way he plays. I love the way he tackles. I like how physical the player is. I wouldn't surprise to see him in the back end of that first round.
- [25:19]
Dave Hellman
It sounds like you're kind of trying to tell me something, Brian. I don't. I mean, somebody with ties to the Cowboys talking to me about safeties at the back end of the first round. I don't know.
- [25:28]
Brian Broadus
Yeah, I. You know what, listen, depending on what happens in the front end for Dallas and you know, we're gonna. We're gonna have discussions about, well, you don't take a safety, it, you know, you're not gonna take a safety high and you know, the history will tell you not to do that. And all this, that and the other depending on with, you know, downs, I think is the best one in the class when it comes to all the things that you could do with. With him and the way he plays. But we're going to get to the back end of this thing. I know that a lot of people are talking about McNeil Warren out of, you know, the Vikings seem to be the one team that's talking about these safeties more than anybody. Am I right about that? Dane that Minnesota is the team. They're. They're trying to kind of get that. That position taken care of. Harrison Smith is, you know, moving on or potentially can move on from. From the Vikings. So I think we're all kind of looking at these safeties in the back end of. What kind of safety are you? I think this is one of the best groups that I've seen in a long time, just from the ability of their ability to cover their ab. To. To. To. To be physical when they have to. To play at a couple of different spots.
- [26:38]
Dave Hellman
I cheated with my guy. Cause I think my guy is. He's a name that I think everybody's comfortable with as a potential first round pick. But my hypothesis that I want to throw to y' all is what if Max Iana out of Arizona State just goes. What if he goes even higher than people are talking about? Like you. I think you see a lot of people project him as pick 23 to 32. What if he's pick 17? You know, like I, I mean considering the little amount of football that he has played, the athletic profile, and I've brought it up a few times, but I just go back and watch him against Texas Tech and the fits that he gave all those edge rushers that the Red Raiders have, and I'm like, if this is what this guy looks like after like three or four years of football and he's 22 years old, it seems like Sky High upside to me. Like, I just, I, I don't think I'd be surprised if his name got called even earlier than people are anticipating.
- [27:34]
Dane Brugler
I mean, I, I talked to multiple pass rushers who said that he was the best blocker they faced in 2025. Logan Fano, one of them. Spencer Fano's brother for Utah. And the fact that he had, it's, it's, it's, you know, a two sides of the coin type of thing. He has only been playing the position, only been playing the sport for a handful of years. So with that, you understand there is considerable upside where he's not reached his football ceiling and he might not even be close. But on the other side, does that mean he has to take a little bit of a red shirt year in, year one, or if you're going to play him, it might be ugly early until he learns and adjusts to the speed of the game. And so it's, it's a little bit of both. And it will be interesting though, really, with all those tackles in the first round, there's no set order, you know, in terms of who's gonna be the first tackle drafted, who will be the seventh tackle drafted. It's, it's all over the place. And so if, if he ends up going a little bit earlier, I, I wouldn't be shocked because the talent says, yeah, that makes sense. But I think that it'll just depend on the team because a lot of these teams are going to be looking for a tackle, plug and play that they can put in from day one. Like, and that's where you debate a guy like Blake Miller from Clemson, who is not as gifted, but he is a plug and play guy, where if a coach needs somebody from day one to take that right tackle spot, you feel a little bit better about Miller than you do about Arizona State.
- [29:04]
Dave Hellman
Give me the, give me the $5 million vet that you don't love and I'll draft the. You not sure I'm, I'm fine with that.
- [29:10]
Brian Broadus
All right, sure. I'll tell you this about him, though. I would rather have him than Blake Miller. I mean, I mean, we could talk about plug and play and stuff like that all day long, but why don't you go get the best player? You know, that's where I think I
- [29:27]
Dane Brugler
said that's the question. Best player for 20, 26 or the best player for the life of your rookie contract? That's where I think the debate comes in.
- [29:34]
Brian Broadus
I think this kid, I think the Arizona State kid would outplay Blake Miller right now. Absolutely. And I know that he only started playing since 2021, but, man, you talk about beautiful footwork. You talk about a guy's got a nasty side to him, the way he plays. You know, he's a run blocker you could watch. Like I say, you could watch the Texas Tech game. You can watch TCU game. You can watch him play against some of these guys. We're all kind of touted as top 10 pass rushers, you know, and he's handling these guys. I. I think the learning curve for him might be a little bit smaller than. Than what people might believe, experience or not.
- [30:07]
Dane Brugler
I mean it to my ears, I say watching him at the Senior bowl right there, I. I think he's got a little ways to go. I. I really do. And that's. I mean, the only pass rusher he faced this year that was, you know, you're really getting excited about is Bailey, obviously from Texas Tech. Besides him, I don't think there's a lot of pass rushers he faced that are, you know, you're getting excited about. And I just. Watching him up close, the talent is real. It's just. I think there's. There will be an adjustment period. I. I really. I really believe that. And I don't think it's as much as you have to sit them for a year. I'm not saying that, but I do think that there will be. There will be bumps along the road that you have to. To navigate.
- [30:44]
Brian Broadus
How do we. How do we. How do we account for Blake Miller's. And this is what kills me every year. This is the one thing that kills me every damn year. It's the offensive tackle that has no power. That has no power. You know that. And I watch Blake Miller play, and I see a guy that's made a million starts, and that's cool. You know, Ben, I've also. But I've also watched Terrence Steele play for, like, the last six years, you know, and not play with any power, and every year trying to replace him. So I always. I miss on the guys that. That are tackles that don't have power, you know, but I kind of feel that way. Give me. I would rather take. I'd rather take the Arizona State kid, because I know how he. I know where he physically is. Whereas Blake Miller. All I see is experience, and I see, like, no power at all with the way he plays.
- [31:38]
Dane Brugler
Yeah, I mean, I think. I really do think it comes down to just preference, you know, the type of tackle, the. Like I said, the plug and play element of this. That's where I think, yeah, coaches, scouts, the gm. There will be debates and all these. And throw Caleb Lomu in there. Throw, you know, some of these other tackles in there. Like, there you go. I think, I mean, Lomu is another guy that's clearly underpowered. Like, it's just, he's going to need time to, you know, mature his body and really develop that part of his game. And it's, it's, you know, it's not who, who's. How do you put a timeline on that in terms of when you're going to feel comfortable for him out there? It's tough. And so I. That there will be no set order. It's. It's going to change from team to team, how they view these tackles.
- [32:21]
Brian Broadus
Yeah.
- [32:22]
Dave Hellman
Fighters, fighters, fighters, go back to your corners. I've got.
- [32:25]
Brian Broadus
I trap, I trap, I trap. Blake Miller, I'm doing podcasts with you on a weekly basis. That's how I look at it.
- [32:32]
Dave Hellman
We're taking a quick break so we have time to argue about some day two prospects. We'll be right back. You know that hoodie you can't stop reaching, the one that feels like a second skin, soft, warm, somehow makes you feel a little more grounded? Well, I found it and trust me, it's not what you'd expect. It's called Pakka, spelled P A K A. And if you're tired of hoodies that stretch out, pill, or feel heavy, this is the upgrade you've been waiting for. Pakka makes outdoor and lifestyle apparel from Alpaca fiber, one of the world's most sustainable natural fibers. Their best selling hoodie is softer than than cashmere, warmer than wool, and it's breathable. And in case you think I'm only reading ad copy, I give this endorsement as a self described hoodie expert. I buy them as souvenirs. I get them out of college apparel shops. I impulse buy them on Instagram on occasion. I know my way around a hoodie and I'm wearing mine right now. I can tell you the Pakka hoodie is just as breathable, just as comfortable as it says, and I would argue, despite that, still incredibly warm. It is a versatile piece of my wardrobe. It's not terribly surprising that I've been wearing it for most of the winter. Cannot recommend it enough. So to grab your pack a hoodie, go to www.pakkaapparel.com. that's www.p a k a apparel.com.
- [34:00]
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- [35:20]
Dane Brugler
it's that
- [35:21]
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- [36:23]
Dave Hellman
All right, Brian Dane started us off with Day one, give me, give me some good value. Day two prospects. Maybe some guys that you can find on Friday that you're excited about the value. Maybe some guys we're not talking enough about.
- [36:36]
Brian Broadus
I don't think we're talking enough about Drew Aller, the quarterback from Penn State.
- [36:41]
Dave Hellman
Not the name I expected to hear. Please. Yeah, shockingly, shockingly the 30 some odd year scouting veteran loves the Tracy Cannon armed quarterback who can throw the ball over the mountains. I can't believe.
- [36:55]
Brian Broadus
Yeah, he could throw the ball through the car wash and it not get wet. You know what I'm saying? But did you want me to say the Arkansas quarterback? Would that be somebody that. Because I really like the Arkansas. I like the Arkansas quarterback too.
- [37:08]
Dave Hellman
You know what? On day two.
- [37:10]
Brian Broadus
Yeah, I'll tell you what, I wouldn't be surprised. I would not be one bit surprised.
- [37:16]
Dave Hellman
I really drew out and Taylor Green, just not on day two. That feels rich to me.
- [37:22]
Brian Broadus
I'll tell you what man, the Drew Allard. I think that to me it's unfortunate what happened to him injury wise.
- [37:30]
Dane Brugler
Yeah.
- [37:31]
Brian Broadus
You watch him play and you watch him stand on wide right college hash and throw the ball all the way left sideline and throw it on a, on a, on a dime right there. You watch him throw the ball down the field. I think the mobility is, I think the mobility, the scapability is good enough for him. The way he wants to move around, the way he could kind of move in the pocket. I, I think there's something to this kid. I don't think we're talking. There's. Penn State was talked about as a very, very highly ranked team, much like Clemson was and you know, and I think some things kind of fell apart for him. But you watch this kid playing some big games. You watch it play like against, you know, the Oregons and the Washingtons and people like that. And the guy plays at a pretty, pretty high level. So I am, I'm, I'm, I'm on board with this guy. And you're right, I'm the crusty old scout that kind of likes the, the quarterback that'll stand in there and make throws. But man, this guy, I feel, feel like that somebody's going to get him and they're going to take advantage of his ability to get the ball down the field and, and, and do it at a high level.
- [38:42]
Dave Hellman
What's your grade on, on Aller Dane?
- [38:45]
Dane Brugler
I have a fourth on him as a developmental type of quarterback. I mean there's a lot to like about him. It's Just not enough of what he does. Just looks natural. It just doesn't like the, there's no, there's not a lot of rhythm in his footwork. The, the feet, the eyes, the arm. It just feel like they're on different pages too often. And this is a guy that, remember, he has not been playing quarterback his entire life. He wasn't groomed to play the position from a young age. He didn't really start playing quarterback till high school, and then he didn't become a starter until midway through his sophomore year. And, you know, it really is unfortunate that he got hurt. He didn't have the second half of this year to, you know, prove that he could maybe get better throughout the year. He didn't have the Senior bowl to go show off what he could do down there in Mobile. And, you know, obviously the. He had the combine, but he's coming off the ankle injury and it didn't. You know, there's still some areas where you could tell he was knocking the rust off. So there's. There's a lot of inconsistency to his game that I don't feel really strongly that he's going to be able to figure out, you know, and the. He. He would. I struggle with him on third downs. He struggled. He was under 50 completions on third downs. There's just not a lot of explosive plays on his tape. And that's, I think, partly because of the supporting cast around him. But it's still. You're a quarterback with this big arm. Let's see you push the ball downfield. I mean, he ranked at the time of his injury, he ranked 112th in college football in terms of plays of 20 plus yards. So it just, it wasn't there. And again, part of that is supporting cast. Part of that's the offensive line. A lot of reasons for it. I just, I. I expected to see more out of him this year in the. The. The first half of the sample size we had.
- [40:30]
Dave Hellman
I think this is a case of you both being right, because I would be excited to draft Drew aller in the 1/ hundreds, but he has a physical profile and a skill set that could absolutely get him drafted on day two.
- [40:43]
Dane Brugler
The physical tools, the intangibles, like, yeah, there's a lot of things that kind of check the boxes of like, hey, if I'm going to make a bet on a guy and let's try to develop him, I can see why a team would look at Aller and say, that's. And we don't want to wait until the fourth. Let's see if he falls to us in the fourth. So we'll take him at pick 87.
- [41:00]
Dave Hellman
Who's your day two value, Dane?
- [41:04]
Dane Brugler
Um, let's see. I wrote down, see five names here. Let's go with Tyler. One. Adam, the defensive tackle from Texas A and M. I think he is a guy that isn't being talked about enough, as you know, because this is not a strong defensive tackle class. We might not see one go in the first round or we might not see one go in the top 25 picks. I think the value will be on day two and I think that onyerum is that kind of that guy on day two where whether it's pick, you know, say it's pick 70 or whatever it is, like, that's where I would look, look at and say, okay, a guy that can give me a little bit of juice in terms of attacking gaps, he can hold up versus a run. He can go make plays from away, away from a square. The motor's there. He's a good athlete. The intangibles are there, really. He played at Iowa State last year and the tape wasn't all that much to get excited about, but that's why he went to A and M because he was kind of stuck in that three man base they did at Iowa State. Goes to A and M, plays a little more three technique, and you see him start to make plays. And so I, I, to me, I think he's a guy that's on the upswing and somebody in a day two that is well, more well liked by NFL teams than I think people realize.
- [42:24]
Brian Broadus
I think Dane absolutely has the player. Right. I think there's some things that, that there's some times with the, the media scouts that we might be a little bit behind of where the NFL teams are. I think the way that Dane described this player is an absolutely the right way to go.
- [42:40]
Dave Hellman
A and m has like 16 guys. Like I said, they're. They're one of those teams where, you know, Ohio State, Indiana are.
- [42:47]
Brian Broadus
They had the most at the combine, didn't they? Didn't they have the most at the combine?
- [42:50]
Dane Brugler
Yeah.
- [42:51]
Dave Hellman
Turn on an A and M game and you'll just find like nine guys worth watching. I wanted to ask y' all if you think I'm off base with this because obviously we've covered a lot of drafts and I remember arguing with y' all for years about not thinking the bang was worth the buck for like, day two edge rushers. And famously we argued a lot about it with DeMarcus Lawrence when the Cowboys traded up to get him in that 2014 draft. I feel so much better about the day two options at edge this year than I can ever remember. Like, typically I just, I'm like, ah, is that guy, like if, if he was good enough to go 40th, then he would just be a first round pick, you know, like, that was kind of my logic for a long time. And this year I just look at it. I mean, take, take your pick. I love Zion Young. I love Gabe Akis. I like TJ Parker. Derek Moore is a guy. Dane and I have talked a lot about our Mason Thomas.
- [43:49]
Dane Brugler
I wrote down one Edge player. Let's see if you name them that because that's. I'm with you.
- [43:55]
Dave Hellman
Okay, so I, and I know, actually, I know who you're going to say, so I'll throw in one more. We all know Cash is Howell. Even with the length issues, I think at least has a chance to be a first round pick. And then there's Malachi Lawrence, who, I'll be honest, I, I don't have a firm take on him, but I have talked to people who know more than me who will plant their flag on this guy and I know plenty of people think he's got a shot to go in the first round. So I just named like seven, eight guys who could get drafted somewhere between like 25 and 50 and I would be pumped about pretty much all of them. Like, I just really love this stretch of Edge talent in this year's draft class.
- [44:37]
Dane Brugler
And I wrote down Malachi Lawrence for the question about who could go in the first for this one. For underrated. Day two. I. It was actually Kieran Crawford from Auburn.
- [44:47]
Dave Hellman
Oh, oh, Kieran's on my list too. I'm. I'm so sorry. I didn't even mention him. I mean, then there's, I mean there's even more. I mean, if you want to get into later guys, you've got Danny Denis, Dennis Sutton, Romello height, Joshua Josephs. Like, the list goes on and on and on. Like, I love the Edge talent. Like on day two in this draft.
- [45:08]
Brian Broadus
Any love or do you guys have this guy too late? Max Llewellyn from Iowa.
- [45:14]
Dane Brugler
I have a fourth on him. Solid player, I think. Yeah, you. You add him to your defensive end rotation and he's going to give you some. You just, you know what you're getting with him. Yeah, the motor's not going to stop. You know, he's. I think he's ideally more of A, A third, you know, rusher as part, as part of your rotation, but yeah, I'd take him on my team any day.
- [45:35]
Dave Hellman
So Dane, I mean, Kieran Crawford's a guy that you're particularly high on, but. Yeah. So you don't think I'm crazy? Like, this is a, this is a pretty enticing list of edge rushers that I think you could get on Friday. Even if some of these guys wind up going in the late first, there's still going to be quite a few.
- [45:51]
Dane Brugler
I mean, I think that might be the story of the second round. Right? Is okay, where is Gabe Akis? Go, you know, and we'll see who's left at that point. But yeah, a guy like Kieran Crawford, I think that he's not going to have to wait very long on day two. You know, you, you obviously watch that Auburn defense for Keldrick Falk, but I think you come away looking at number 24 and saying, okay, yeah, this guy can play. I mean he's explosive, he plays with a purpose. It doesn't matter if he's rushing the passer, playing the run, not the longest, doesn't have as much maybe pure power as you'd like. But even when he's attached to bigger bodies, he finds a way to get off the block and go make a play. He can drop in space, he can stand up and so there's still some things that he's working through technique wise. But he's twitched up and I love the compete skills. So I would love to draft this guy on day two and whether it doesn't if I'm running a 3, 4, 4 3, a hybrid version, whatever, I think there's a fit for him somewhere.
- [46:56]
Dave Hellman
One more guy I wanted to throw to y' all before we go to break. Dane. We've talked a lot about how much we like Jeremy Bernard for just being like a solid football player.
- [47:04]
Dane Brugler
Right. Yeah.
- [47:05]
Dave Hellman
I feel the same way about Antonio Williams out of Clemson who just feels completely under discussed.
- [47:14]
Dane Brugler
Yeah, I, I mean I. He's someone that had some momentum coming into the year and then was hurt,
- [47:19]
Dave Hellman
banged up and so the entire Clemson team is a bummer. We know this. But he is.
- [47:25]
Dane Brugler
He.
- [47:26]
Dave Hellman
I still think he's a good foot. I think he's a good football player though.
- [47:29]
Dane Brugler
I think so too. Yeah, I mean, heck, line him up at quarterback. He had a 75 yard pass, touchdown pass this year. Like he's just, he's a good athlete. I was worried about the drops a lot. Like just watching him over the summer he had a drop rate at almost 10%, which is really concerning. But this year the drops were non existent. He, you know, made some adjustments and that was less of a worry based off of his 2025 tape. And so he just. If you want a guy that is going to work primarily at a slot, but he can create a separation, he's enough of a glider where he has a speed, he can work vertically, the body control is there, the focus is there. And I love how he just, he seems to always play with a slow heartbeat. You know, it doesn't, it's not like he's going to play too fast when the moment on money downs or when the moment is, you know, really calling for a big play. He's just really controlled. I wish there were more explosive plays on his film. Like this is another player where, okay, you're a little bit undersized, but you're a good athlete. You catch the ball well. All right, then I should see a lot of explosive plays on your tape. All right. Well, no, he had, he was like 196th in the country in terms of plays of 20 plus yards this year. So it's like, okay, I wish there was a little more in that area. But yeah, there's a little bit of like a Khalil Shakur type of player to his game where he's just going to come in and be a solid guy. So that's a good guy to mention.
- [48:59]
Dave Hellman
We all wish that Clemson's players had better tape than they do, but if, hey, if that means I can get them in the third round or late toward the, like, back end of the third round, even better.
- [49:11]
Brian Broadus
Where do you guys have Kyle Lewis from Pitt? Is he a day two guy for you guys?
- [49:16]
Dane Brugler
Yeah, I think he's too good. The question is, where do you play him? Yeah, that's, that's the, that's the only question I have.
- [49:23]
Brian Broadus
Safety.
- [49:23]
BetterHelp Advertiser
Did you play him?
- [49:24]
Dave Hellman
I'm saying some people see him as a safety, right?
- [49:26]
Dane Brugler
Yeah, I mean, I think that's probably where he. A hybrid version. I think that's where he has to play, you know, because he's not a traditional linebacker. Right. I mean, he's not going to take on a block. That's just not who he is. But as an athlete, yeah, I would love to draft him in a third round and figure, you know, just work with my defensive coordinator to figure out a spot for him.
- [49:47]
Brian Broadus
Yeah, I think this guy makes a lot of plays. I mean, you could see him around the ball, you could see him in coverage. You Know, I think he's a really. When you start to talk about football intelligence, I think he sees the field very well. I think he's a really good finisher. I put him on my board as a strong safety in that group because I'm going to. I'm going to. I think that when you watch him, especially when you watch him work out the other day, the movement skills. You can see the movement skills on the workout, on tape, the way he does things. So I think somebody is going to take this particular player and I think they are going to find a role for him because I could see him making a ton of plays for a team.
- [50:26]
Dane Brugler
Range, instincts, man, coverage. The upside is there. It's just. It's not realized at this point. But yeah, he won't be a fit for everybody. But I think, yeah, for the team that takes a chance and finds that right role for him. I absolutely agree. And watching him at the Senior bowl, he was a blanket, just covering tight ends and backs and. Because when you watch him on film, he was mainly that curl, flat zone defender. Right. Yeah.
- [50:54]
Brian Broadus
There were a couple of games, I think it was North Carolina State, they tried to run. They. They took either watching the game, they went on a wheel route with him and he carried like from, you know, he dropped and then had to adjust to. To carry the route going vertically. So, yeah, there. There's some coverage skills there in. In this particular player. I think whether it's in front of him or maybe carrying him up the
- [51:14]
Dane Brugler
field, I think he's kind of what a lot of people wanted Harold Perkins to be. That undersized athlete who is where Harold Perkins feels a little bit more of a tweener. This guy feels like more of a. Like we just. There's something for him. Like we will make. There's a spot for him because how instinctive he is. He's a C ball, get ball guy, nose for the ball, explosive closing speed. Yeah, I mean, I'm with you. I would love to have him on my team and have my defensive coordinator figure it out.
- [51:48]
Brian Broadus
Yeah. I think there's something that was the biggest misuse of talent at lsu, what they did to Harold Perkins. That's. I'm ashamed that we did that to that kid because we don't have to
- [51:59]
Dave Hellman
talk about what happened with Harold.
- [52:01]
Brian Broadus
No. As a proud LSU alum, I'm embarrassed what we did to that kid.
- [52:07]
Dave Hellman
Well, hopefully his draft stock doesn't reflect what his last few seasons in college looked like.
- [52:12]
Dane Brugler
Can I add one more guy that day 2 Underrated of course. So we're going to see a lot of receivers come off the board on day two. I think one that may be closer to the top of that list in terms of where we see him go. Dejean Stribling from Ole Miss. Former Washington State player, former fun player. He is. And obviously when you're that size and you run a 43 that's gets you, you know, have you stand up and you know, sit up a little bit, a little bit more. But yeah, 622-07436 in the 40 and when you see the ball in his hands and see him be able to run with space, you see that 43 speed. And I think that watch Ole Miss in the playoffs, I mean he averaged almost 100 yards receiving in, in those games, those three playoff games that they had this year. His ability to quickly accelerate the top speed is awesome. Dependable hands. I think he's more than willing to do the dirty work whether it's working over the middle, whether it's blocking. So I just think that, you know, he, he's maybe not the most well rounded in terms of the route tree and you know, finding full success, but big body athlete with ball skills and speed, competitive toughness. He's going to find a role. Wide receiver 2, wide receiver 3 in some offense like if I'm the Colts in looking at round two. To me this is the type of player that would, would fit them perfectly.
- [53:42]
Dave Hellman
It meant a lot to me that he went off in the biggest games Ole Miss played too. Like he doubled his production in the playoffs as opposed to, you know, his, his usual output from the regular season. He was really fun to watch. All right, we're going to take one more break and then we've got some day three sleepers for you before we get out of here.
- [54:01]
TurboTax Advertiser
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Dane Brugler
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- [56:05]
Dave Hellman
all right. It's called Building the Beast. This is the whole point. I want to hear about some, some names we haven't talked much about, if at all. Dane. So no better place to start than the guy who just finished the Beast. Give me some day. Three sleepers. Some guys that really aren't on the radar. Who you're excited about.
- [56:23]
Dane Brugler
Caleb Proctor, defensive tackle, Southeastern Louisiana. This is. And I mean you guys are eastern.
- [56:30]
Brian Broadus
Yeah.
- [56:31]
Dane Brugler
I, I think you're familiar with him because of what he did against your lsu.
- [56:36]
Brian Broadus
Killed it. He killed lsu.
- [56:38]
Dave Hellman
I am familiar. I just, it's not often you hear Southeastern break contained from, from that particular area code.
- [56:46]
Dane Brugler
I mean he, he's, he's from Oak Grove, Louisiana and like he went under, recruited, played at a small level, you know, and just it was hard for him to get noticed during the recruiting process. And then he kind of worked his way up. I mean he was, he never really played the defensive line until he went to College, he was a linebacker and so he expected to stay at linebacker when he got to college and they eventually moved into the defensive line and he just kept getting better and better. But you know, he's, he wants to be around that 290 mark he got there at the combine. Six two, two ninety, ran the four sevens. You see the, the quickness and the ability to get off the ball. And watching him up close at the Shrine bowl practices, that was helpful to kind of get a better idea for him as an athlete there. I really enjoyed talking to him at the Shrine bowl and the combine. He just, everything that coaches and scouts talk about him as just being a special leader, he comes off that way when you talk to him. So I think the ability on the field and the person to make up the intangibles on day, like early day three when he, when he's drafted, I think Proctor is going to be one of those underrated gems.
- [57:56]
Dave Hellman
It's funny that between Caleb Proctor Wrecking Shop and Garrett Nussmeier continuing to not really be able to throw the ball downfield. Like that was right around the point in the season where I was like, oh, oh no. LSU is not as good as I thought they were. Maybe that Clemson game didn't mean so much after all. Brian, who you got?
- [58:16]
Brian Broadus
Yeah, I'm going to, I'm going to sell you a guy that probably might not get drafted. But I'll tell you what, I know a guy out on the west coast that might draft this guy and that's my guy, Les Snead. And I'm talking about Landon Robinson, the defensive tackle from Navy is what we're talking about. And I'll tell you what, he's 6 foot, he's 287 pounds. And you watch him play, and I am. And you can watch him against Notre Dame, you can watch him against Memphis. Saw him at the east west game. The army game is, you know, it's a, a battle for the ages is when those guys get together. But I love this kid because I think he's got exceptional leverage. I think he plays with a really first step quickness. There's some violence to his pass rush, the way that he gets after him. I say not the tallest guy, super active. They like to move him around. And so you always kind of see him playing on the move, whether it's a little bit of a twist stunt, but they try and keep him moving so he could be able to tack up the field. He wins with quickness, he wins with strength. He's A penetrator. He can make tackles for losses. Again, he's not the prototypical size. At 6 foot 287, that's going to be probably a problem for some people. But I'll tell you what, you draft this guy, though, you're going to get a guy that absolutely doesn't quit. But the way he plays with the leverage and the explosiveness and the quickness, I think he's going to be a hard guy to get rid of that.
- [59:45]
Dane Brugler
That's exactly. I think my final line of my report on Lana Robinson is he's going to make it extremely hard for an NFL team to cut him. Like, it, just the way he plays, it's, he's just, he's a make it player. Right. And another, another former high school linebacker who kind of outgrew that position once he got to college. And you, but you still see that with the pursuit skills and his ability to get to the football. Yeah, I, I gave, I put a sixth on Landon Robinson, so I'm right there with you.
- [60:19]
Dave Hellman
My guys are names that are, if you follow college football, if you follow the draft at all. I bet you've heard these names. So maybe I'm being generous with the term sleeper, but I'm looking for running back. Stane. I'm, I'm stubbornly looking for running backs because I just, I'm, I, I'm stubborn and I get tired of hearing that there's nobody worth drafting after, like the first three or four guys.
- [60:44]
Dane Brugler
So I wrote two names here, so I'm eager to see if one of them or who you're going to mention is one of them.
- [60:50]
Dave Hellman
Well, I'm, I'm going to give it away because both of my guys went to the same school. If we're talking about day three, I'd be happy with. I, I, I like those players. But no, the, the Penn State guys. The Penn State guys, I like Nick Singleton and Katron Allen on day three. And I think for different reasons, like Katron Allen, clearly, by the fact that I'm guessing you don't have a 40 for him in your, in the Beast Dane.
- [61:17]
Dane Brugler
Who's that? Katron Allen?
- [61:18]
Dave Hellman
Yeah.
- [61:19]
Dane Brugler
No, he didn't do it.
- [61:20]
Dave Hellman
Exactly. And that's why he's gonna get drafted on day three.
- [61:24]
Dane Brugler
You're not gonna do anything. He, like, literally did not do a single testing, pro day or combine.
- [61:30]
Dave Hellman
You're not drafting him for his athleticism, obviously. But I just, I think he's a fun football player. I think he's shifty. I think he's physical. I think if you're drafting a day three running back who could carve out a role in your backfield. I like him a lot. Nick Singleton is the better athlete. Very underrated as a receiver. I mean a guy you know a hundred plus catches in college and then obviously he's got special teams value.
- [61:55]
Dane Brugler
The kick return value. Yeah, that's big.
- [61:58]
Dave Hellman
I'd be happy to draft either one of those guys. So I, I get it. This is, this is not a wonderful running back class. But. But there are guys that I think I, I could get into drafting in the right round on day three. But. So I'm guessing one of the Indiana guys is. Is on your list.
- [62:17]
Dane Brugler
Yeah. And I mean those are good shout outs. Yeah. I've got a fourth on Catron Allen, a fifth on Singleton. Like Singleton is not like he just doesn't have the vision and like I don't. I just. He's not gonna be consistent as a between.
- [62:27]
Dave Hellman
I do think it's interesting like the guy, the guy with such bad athleticism that he didn't want to test has a better grade though. Like he is the better running back. Right?
- [62:36]
Dane Brugler
He's a better running back. He's just. He's not. Singleton's a better athlete and Catron Allen's a better running back. So it just. It kind of depends what you're looking for but I do with Singleton if you're looking for I like he has to get better in pass pro. Like it's hard to call him a third down back when he struggled as much as he did blocking but as a kick returner and a guy that you can maybe develop to be that third down back. Totally get it. It's a shame that he had the foot and we were robbed of what his 40 was going to be at 220 pounds because that he is a freaky dude. Yeah. I wrote down Eli Heidenreich, the Navy running back who's really more of a slot receiver but he had one of the craziest three cones that I can remember seeing for a running back. It was 655 which anything under 7 is awesome and he was close to 65 which is crazy. But yeah. Caitlin Black for Indiana who's my top ranked non combine running back this year. He ran 445 at the pro day. Indiana pro day. He just, he runs so dang hard and I just think he's a guy that's going to find a role and even if it's the third they're running back on the depth chart he's going to be make himself too valuable to get rid of. So I do like Caleb Black on day three.
- [63:56]
Dave Hellman
Let me get your running back thoughts, Brian, on, on these guys or anybody else.
- [64:00]
Brian Broadus
Yeah, I'll tell you what, I'm kind of in that mode right now where I'm trying to kind of figure out these guys. The running backs are always. I really, I know that people were talking about the Washington kid from, from Arkansas and the way that, that he was able to, to add the, you know, the combine, the testing and all that stuff like that. I really liked him. I like, I was, I'm interested in Claiborne as well. I think him, McGowan. Those are a couple of guys. When you start to talk about late guys would be guys I would be very, very interested in. I can I throw another player at you though that I'm more interested in than the running backs? Of course. Can I throw, can I throw Cole Wisniewski, the safety from Texas Tech, at you as a guy. And I'm saying this, this is young man to transfer from North Dakota State. So he knows what it's like to play, you know, championship level football. This guy was a linebacker with North Dakota State. I, you could play him in a couple of different spots. I, I think that he's the absolute best when he could play down, when he could play forward, you know, his ability to see the ball. I think he does a great job with that. He's, he looks very relaxed though in the way he plays, but he's got this feel for how to attack and then how to be able to kind of get through gaps and make tackles for loss or play against the screen and all that. He's not a headline grabber at all, but he's one of these kind of these functional type of players that could do a lot of different things that you want to put him on your defense. I love his size. I got him at 6 3, 214 pounds. I think that to me he's one of these guys that's just a football player. So Cole Wisniewski from Texas Tech would be a guy a day three guy.
- [65:45]
Dane Brugler
I would keep an eye on 6, 3, 2, 20. He's the rare guy where he's a six year senior. So six years in college, had eight interceptions and they all came in one year, which is just kind of ironic. But he had a lot of juice with scouts after that 20, 23 season. That's when he was an FCS All American, had the eight interceptions and then goes into 2024, has the foot injury. So he misses all of 20, 24 transfers to Texas Tech this past year, stays healthy and was solid. I think it was honorable mention all big 12. I know the injury stuff might catch up with him. Like he was limited at pro day. Like he didn't run a 40 or anything like that because of some of the things that were lingering with him. But yeah, he's a good player and he's already, you know, has that pro mindset. Like you know the type of person you're getting that, that preparation, the way he carries himself. So, so yeah, it's. That's a good name to bring up.
- [66:42]
Dave Hellman
So that puts us at like six defenders from Tech that are probably going to hear their names called. Am I missing anybody?
- [66:51]
Dane Brugler
Let's see, at least a safety of lineman. Yeah, I think. And obviously Rodriguez. And then so like that. What's that? Four. And then I think Wisniewski's on the edge. He's kind of that borderline. And then.
- [67:06]
Brian Broadus
Oh, you said just defensive players, right? They got the wide receiver too.
- [67:10]
Dave Hellman
I did mean just defense. But yeah, Reggie as well.
- [67:13]
Brian Broadus
Yeah.
- [67:14]
Dane Brugler
Caleb Douglas has a chance. I had some teams really like him. So yeah, it's. And then I mean some teams are interested in Morton, the quarterback. I think he's more of a pfa, but all it takes is one team, especially in this quarterback class which is really all over the place with some of those day three grades.
- [67:31]
Dave Hellman
Dane, before we get out of here. Anybody else, let's see.
- [67:35]
Dane Brugler
How about. Can I interest you in a Jimmy Roller, I think from Michigan. He's someone that doesn't get a lot of, a lot of pub, but he's someone that's always around the ball. Chicago kid who is. Has yet to play his best football. You know, he kind of took over that because he was only a one year starter. He was kind of a backup and Michigan wasn't sure what they had. And then this year he, as they moved Barham down to an edge role, they were able to kind of get the best 11 on the field and that meant getting rolled or more of an impact position, impact role. And he led the team in tackles. And so the athlete that he is, like he's not an explosive thumper necessarily, but he is sideline to sideline. His instincts seem to get better and better. Just the awareness and the ability to sniff things out. I think he's going to be a day one contributor on special teams and it won't be a surprise at all if he's starting NFL games Here at some point in the near future.
- [68:36]
Dave Hellman
Is this like an Aiden Fisher that I can get at a discount because his team didn't play for the national title? Like that's kind of what I'm hearing.
- [68:43]
Dane Brugler
Yeah. I have a fourth round grade on him. I think, you know, he's kind of that first linebacker for me once the we turned to Saturday and day three so, you know, I could see a team maybe even taking them late day two. But I think early on day three is kind of his range and I think he'd be a really good value pick at that point.
- [69:03]
Dave Hellman
Guys, we could do this all day, but we do have other obligations. But good news for you, the listener, if you want to dig through more good values sleepers and whatever else the beast is available again, you can go find it@the athletic.com the Beast. All the prospects, all the reports, all the draft grades available. I'll say it one more time, the industry standard for draft guides. Excited for y' all to get your hands on it. Dane, super pumped for you, man. Brian, this was a blast. Really.
- [69:35]
Brian Broadus
Thank you guys. Appreciate you. Thank you so much, guys.
- [69:38]
Dane Brugler
Thank you.
- [69:39]
Brian Broadus
Yeah, I appreciate you putting up with me today. You guys are the best. Absolutely.
- [69:43]
Dave Hellman
It's exactly what we wanted it to be. But guess what, we still have several more weeks until the draft comes out. So even if the beast is built, we got plenty more prospects to talk, plenty more draft to discuss. We'll be back with you all next week. Until then, we appreciate it. We'll catch you next time.
- [70:00]
TurboTax Advertiser
Thanks for tuning in. Make sure to hit that subscribe or follow button so you never miss an episode. If you enjoyed what you heard, please like comment and leave a rating. We'll see you next time.
- [70:11]
Dave Hellman
Par le tu francais hablas espanol Par.
- [70:15]
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- [70:50]
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- [71:21]
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