The Jets-Titans trade, the Malik Willis market, and the rest of the news from combine week

Summary

The Athletic Football Show: The Jets-Titans Trade, the Malik Willis Market, and News from Combine Week

Date: February 27, 2026
Host: Robert Mays
Guests/Co-Hosts: Derrik Klassen, Dave Helman

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Episode Overview

The Athletic’s flagship NFL podcast closes out combine week from Indianapolis, offering an inside look at the biggest stories and movements from around the league. Host Robert Mays is joined by Derrik Klassen and Dave Helman to break down a notable Jets-Titans trade, the rapidly changing Malik Willis quarterback market, and major roster and coaching developments discussed on the ground at the NFL combine. The trio dig into both headline and under-the-radar moves and provide expert, candid analysis rooted in their conversations with league insiders.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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1. Combine Week Atmosphere and Insights

[02:01]–[04:43]

• Robert sets the tone with reflections on combine week as the NFL’s off-field convention:

  “This is our convention. Like, this is the opportunity for everybody in our business to get together and just kind of chat, shoot the shit, learn stuff.” – Robert Mays [02:15]

• The combine is bustling, so much so that Robert missed news like the major trade that happened the same day.
• Light draft chatter: Discussion of Reuben Bain’s notably short arms and how busy the week keeps everyone.

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2. The Jets-Titans Player-for-Player Trade

[04:43]–[10:41]

Trade Details

• Jermaine Johnson (Jets) to the Titans
• T’Vondre Sweat (Titans) to the Jets

Analysis

• Jets Perspective:
  • Robert Saleh’s influence is clear, as Sweat fits the new defensive regime.
  • “When regime changes happen, that’s when you can see opportunity… just because you have a scheme change.” – Robert Mays [06:21]
  • Jets fill a major defensive tackle need and clear cap room, anticipating an Edge pickup with their #2 draft pick.
• Titans Perspective:
  • Edge rusher is a dire need: “They need bodies and bodies and bodies at edge.” – Derek Klassen [09:16]
  • Johnson gives the Titans a high-upside, still-young edge rusher with a relatively low $13M salary—“that’s still a bargain for a really good edge rusher.” – Robert Mays [08:36]
  • Titans free up cap by releasing Lloyd Cushenberry and Xavier Woods; still flush with cap room.

Notable Quote

“It’s always fun when you try to solve all these problems and you solve none of them and you have to do it all over again.” – Robert Mays on the cyclical nature of Titans’ rebuilds [11:06]

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3. The Malik Willis Market and Quarterback Carousel

[11:06]–[25:52]

Malik Willis Free Agency

• Reports (Jordan Schultz) peg Willis’ market at upwards of $30M/year—“The 30 million says more about desperation than it does about Malik Willis.” – Derrik Klassen [12:18]
• Every QB-needy team is at least ‘talking’ about Willis, confirmed by John Eric Sullivan (Dolphins GM):

  “If they tell you they’re not talking about Malik Willis, that would be a lie.” – paraphrased, [11:24]

• Players like Baker Mayfield and Sam Darnold signed modest "second chance" deals in prior years—now Willis’ market is 8x what it was for Mayfield.

Is $30M Justified?

• Will teams really go that high, and which ones make sense?
• “When you break it down and look across the landscape, it does get harder to find a suitor.” – Dave Helman [14:38]
• Potential fits discussed: Jets, Cardinals, Browns, with a nod to Miami (complicated cap).
• Risk: Spending $30M on a bridge QB may cost a team the flexibility to draft a rookie if things go bad—“Now you’re stealing one year of the rookie quarterback contract window if you have to draft one.” – Robert Mays [15:29]

Willis vs. Kyler Murray

• The crew debates whether teams should pursue Willis ($30M/yr) or try to trade for Kyler Murray, who has more of a track record. Derek is clear:

  “The worst Kyler Murray is better than the best Justin Fields has ever been.” – Derek Klassen [30:34]

Anthony Richardson, Matt Jones, and More

• Vikings could be an interesting fit for Anthony Richardson, who’s apparently been cleared to seek a trade [37:48].
• Mac Jones is likely not moving unless someone’s willing to pay a steep price (possibly a 2nd-rounder) [39:32].
• Kirk Cousins’ market may be evolving toward high-end backup/insurance on a contender.

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4. Team-Specific Quarterback & Roster Moves

[25:52]–[41:51]

Cardinals Optimism

• Replacing Kyler Murray with Malik Willis, adding a top OL in the draft, and using cap for guard reinforcements could retool the offense effectively.
• “I cannot believe it’s February 26th and I’m starting to talk myself into the Arizona Cardinals again.” – Robert Mays [25:52]

Vikings QB Plans

• Internal debate on whether Minnesota should ride with JJ McCarthy or take a swing at Kyler Murray/Anthony Richardson.

  “I would feel worse having this roster and not giving ourselves the best chance, even if it blows up and we nuke ourselves in two years.” – Derek Klassen [34:44] “Hoping that it’s better than awful again...doesn’t sit well with me, when Justin Jefferson has already been in the league for six years.” – Dave Helman [35:54]

Steelers & Aaron Rodgers

• “I’m going to spend no time or energy talking or thinking about [the Rodgers situation] until we have clarity.” – Robert Mays [41:28]

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5. Cowboys Contract Moves and Roster Rebuild

[45:12]–[54:37]

• Tagging George Pickens for $28M; discussing restructures for Dak Prescott, CeeDee Lamb, and possibly Tyler Smith.
• Cap-clearing options (possibly moving Kenny Clark), and the flexibility it creates: “If you cut Kenny Clark that’s a linebacker and a safety [you can add].”
• The Cowboys’ off-season patience/frustration cycle: “We’re going to get all excited, like, oh, they freed up all this money...then free agency...it’s just crickets on the Cowboys front while the first tier of free agents fly off the board.” – Dave Helman [50:32]
• Hypothetical trades: Would Dallas deal Pickens for a 1 and a 3? Most would prefer to keep the star WR but consider moving a #1 pick for Max Crosby.
• Max Crosby to Cowboys/Rams/Bears/49ers? All discussed, but cap and fit make it tougher for some.

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6. A.J. Brown Trade Possibility

[56:24]–[59:34]

• Sourcing from the combine suggests the Eagles’ relationship with A.J. Brown may have “reached the end of the road.”
• Likely cause: Brown’s desire to move, not Philly pushing him out.
• Possible cost? “A two and some scraps is possible.” – Robert Mays [57:26]
• Financial breakdown: acquiring team gets flexibility, and “for a team that needs a player like this, it’s Buffalo. It has to be.” [58:53]
• Realistically, deal gets done after June 1 due to cap/dead money implications.

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7. Play-Calling Shifts Among Coaches

[60:10]–[63:37]

• Sean Payton gives play-calling to Davis Webb in Denver:

  “I would have guessed you’d have to pry play-calling out of Sean Payton’s cold, dead hands.” – Dave Helman [65:09]

• Dave Canales hands play-calling to Brad Idzik in Carolina – indicative of head coaches expanding into CEO roles and preparing assistants for future head coaching opportunities: “Usually when the head coach is your play-caller, they don't give it up.” – Derek Klassen [61:49]
• Webb is “about to be a rock star” among coordinators.

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Noteworthy Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Player-for-player trades are consistently my favorite thing that happens in the NFL because I always find them so compelling.” – Robert Mays [05:00]
• “The 30 million says more about the desperation than it does about Malik Willis.” – Derrik Klassen [12:18]
• “If you’re spending $30 million on Malik Willis, though...you’re likely devoting an amount of resources...where if you are one of the worst teams...now you’re stealing one year of the rookie quarterback contract window.” – Robert Mays [15:29]
• “I just want to say one more time...there are intriguing options out there for the Pittsburgh Steelers and it...doesn’t sound like they’re interested in any of it. And maybe that’s wrong...but doesn’t seem like it.” – Dave Helman [41:14]
• “When you do what the Dolphins did...and leverage your finances...when you’re trying to maximize these windows, the end is going to be messy. And that’s exactly where the Dolphins sit right now.” – Robert Mays [32:21]
• “Hoping that it’s better than awful again...doesn’t sit well with me, when Justin Jefferson has already been in the league for six years.” – Dave Helman [35:54]

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Important Timestamps & Segments

• [02:01] – Combine week reflections, setting the scene
• [04:43] – Breakdown of the Jets-Titans trade
• [11:06] – The Malik Willis market and depth of the QB carousel
• [25:52] – Arizona Cardinals’ off-season blueprint if they move on from Kyler
• [34:04] – Vikings QB outlook and urgency for new direction
• [41:28] – Steelers’ potential indecision regarding Aaron Rodgers
• [45:12] – Dallas Cowboys’ cap and contract machinations
• [56:24] – The A.J. Brown trade scenario
• [60:10] – Head coach play-calling handoffs, career pathways

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Final Thoughts

With free agency and the draft fast approaching, the episode delivers a dense, insightful rundown of the league’s evolving landscape, focusing intently on the domino effects of a few key trades, the escalation of the “second-chance” QB market, and the ways cap space, draft picks, and internal politics are shaping team strategies. The hosts blend sharp analysis with humor and candid war stories from the combine floor, making this an essential listen for NFL fans wanting both news and context.

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Next Up: Combine recap show with Dane Brugler, and a free agency mailbag (submit questions at athleticfootballshowmail.com).

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(Advertisements, extended intros/outros, and sponsor reads have been omitted for clarity and focus.)

Transcript

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[Robert Mays]

Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mays. Our last day in Indianapolis. I'm driving home in like two hours. Great week. I. I love the combine. I just, I love the combine. It. This is, I think my 15th or 16th one. You know, spent four days here just visiting with other writers, you know, people from other media companies, friends, coaches, personnel people. It. It's unlike anything else in the NFL. Obviously the super bowl is the super bowl, but the super bowl is a. A massive sprawling event where not the entire league is there. I was talking to a coach yesterday at the Starbucks in the jw, which is the nerve center of this entire thing, where Mike Sando just holds court for an entire week. And he was just saying, like, this is our convention. Like, this is the opportunity for everybody in our business to get together and just kind of chat, shoot the shit, learn stuff. And that's exactly what the week in Indy is every single year. And so excited to go home and see my wife, but also sad to be leaving this because I really do enjoy it. We wrapped up our combine week here on the Athletic Football show in the same way we have reached the last couple years. Obviously, there's a lot of news nuggets that are going to come out that have nothing to do with the draft. Who's getting cut, who's not, who's getting franchise tag. What does the quarterback carousel look like? What does the early kind of scuttlebutt about player movement sound like? That's what we did today. Me, Dave, Derek, digging into all of the news that was from the NFL combine in 2026. So let's get to that conversation right now. We are here at Radio Row at the Indianapolis Convention center on what is our final day of 2026 NFL combine. And the good news is all of us have longer arms than Ruben Bane.

[Derek]

A. I don't need to fact check that, but I'm going to roll with it.

[Dave]

I can't. No. Everybody knows how short I am. I can in good conscience make fun of Ruben Ban. He does have very short arms, though.

[Robert Mays]

It's the only bit of news I've seen that that's the thing when I'm here is that, like, the days are so busy in a really cool way. Like, I love being here. But even, like, the trade we're going to talk about on the top of the show today, I didn't see it until, like, five hours after it happened just because that's kind of how the combine goes. And so the only bit of, like, draft nugget news I've seen is that Ruben Bane has really short arms. But we kind of already knew that.

[Dave]

I know we were talking about that before you sat down. Like, from the time he got on the radar as a prospect, it was like, well, Ruben Bane's not going to measure. Well, you just kind of have to make peace with that. He's still a good player, but then when you see the number, everybody freaks the hell out. It's like, well, if no defensive end or edge player drafted in the top 100 has ever had arms that short, I get why it's a talking point, but I don't know, man. The tape's still really Fun.

[Robert Mays]

We're going to have plenty of time in the next month and a half to talk drafts.

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[Robert Mays]

Two months. I mean, the draft is essentially two months from right now. We're going to spend today kind of doing what we've done the last couple years. On the final show from combine week, we're just going to discuss what the news was around the NFL over the last few days. Some of this is going to be nuggets from press conferences. Some of this is going to be things that people have reported about markets for certain players. Again, we've got a trade to talk about. So we're going to spend the next hour or so scooping up all of the things that have kind of come out over the last few days. And let's begin, Derek, with the trade that happened today. This is a fun one. There's, there's a lot of layers to this. It's kind of like a player, player for player. Trades are consistently my favorite thing that happens in the NFL because I always find them so compelling. This is another one where it's kind of a throwaway deal. But think there's a lot to chew on here. Jermaine Johnson goes from the New York jets to the Tennessee Titans. The jets get back to Vondre Sweat in that trade. Your initial thoughts about this?

[Derek]

So I don't think it's a throwaway deal because this very clearly says that like Robert Sala has full control over what's going on with the defense, which we probably all assumed that that was going to be the case. Right. And so I think him getting a player that had been effective under Salah previously and actually had played some of his best ball like back in 2023 and I thought was finally ascending into the player he was supposed to be as like a second round pick obviously gets hurt, that kind of starts to ruin some of that. And so I'm pretty interested in what that looks like. My conflicting thought on it is like I understand that Salah's style of defense doesn't really employ these 330 pound nose guards. They don't really care for that. Tavandra Sweat to me is like too good for that to be a consideration. Like I would still want that kind of player on my football team.

[Robert Mays]

That's why I like it for the Jets. That's why for the Jets I really like it because it was funny. I was talking to a personnel guy today and we were just discussing, discussing pro personnel strategy and some of the players that you seek out in a given off season. And when Regime changes happen. That's when you can see opportunity, right? Because there are guys that are good players that may not be valued by the new regime in the way that they were by the old one. Just because you have a scheme change. Tamadra Sutton's a perfect example of this, right? He had a really, really nice second season. But you go now to a four down attack front with Robert Sall. He doesn't really fit that style of defense. So he's more expendable than a player of his talent level should be. And Jermaine Johnson's hitting free agency. It's $13 million against the caps wets $10 million less than that. And Dave, you know this better than I do, but picking second overall in this draft, if the jets want to pick an edge rusher with a second overall pick, they can fill that spot. So now in a down year for defensive tackles specifically, you fill a defensive tackle need while also having an avenue to replace Jermaine Johnson with four more cheap years potentially.

[Dave]

That's the, that is the main component of this for me. I do the Salah part is a good, is a good note, Derek, but it just crystallizes what the jets might do for me. And like Fernando Mendoza is going one overall. We've known that for quite some time. I think it, it stood to reason the jets might do this anyway even with Jermaine Johnson on the roster. But now you do that and now it's Will McDonald basically and some parts as far as edge rushers go. And now take your pick. I would assume if it, if it were me, I would start doing the photoshops of Arvell Reese in New York Green. But if you like David Bailey if from Texas Tech, I want the schools

[Robert Mays]

now that we're in a, we're away from the building the beast world. I'm doing this for me as much as anybody else. I don't know that strongly who David Bailey is, so I assume there are some listeners out there who do not know who David Bailey is.

[Dave]

Arvel Reese from Ohio State, David Bailey from Texas Tech, Reuben Bain from Miami. I think his arm measurements are going to keep him from going too overall. But hey, if the jets love him, then they could make him the number two pick as well. But it feels very, very likely that if the jets are making that pick, it'll be who they think is the top edge rusher in the draft.

[Robert Mays]

And I want to be clear. I do like this for the jets and I do think it makes sense. I think it's just A smart move based on where they are. I also think this could work out for the Titans because Jermaine Johnson is still a young player. We've seen him be really productive. It's he's playing on his fifth year option. It is 13 million bucks. But if you get really nice production out of him, that's still a bargain for a really good edge rusher. And he was an ascending player in 23. He was not as good last year. Two different considerations there. First year off in Achilles, always a crapshoot for guys. And two, it's just a scheme that he wasn't familiar with. Year one of a new system, you put him back in that wide nine world, we're going to let you pin your ears back, get after the quarterback and edge rusher was a massive need for the Titans. Just a massive, massive need.

[Derek]

It was a massive need just based off last year. And they're losing some of the guys that they had last year like Arden Key, Jihad Ward and those were all guys that really wouldn't have even made sense to bring back based on the defense anyway. So like they other than the guy they drafted last year, they need bodies and bodies and bodies of edge.

[Robert Mays]

Couple more things, bits of news for the Titans. They released Lloyd Cushionberry and Xavier woods on Wednesday. Frees up about $8 million in cap space. Is the team that even with Jermaine Johnson on the book, still has like $90 million in effective cap space. Which is another reason I like that trade for the Titans, because the cap space has to go somewhere. There aren't that many edge rushers in free agency that you'd want to pay $13 million a year. So using that money on Jermaine Johnson and making a trade would be the reason you find a guy like that, I think makes sense. But Cushion Berry, that's another one where coming off the injury just was never quite the same. And Xavier woods, even if he played okay last year like you were talking about Derek, it's an older player, you know, and so sometimes that just you can go a different direction. There are a million safeties available in free agency and so if you want to get a little bit younger at that position, that is something potentially the jets could do.

[Dave]

The Titans have spent Titans.

[Robert Mays]

Excuse me.

[Dave]

The Titans have spent so much money on so many players over the last like two years and somehow they're still in this like. Well, it's a blank slate phase which it's exciting because you've got the quarterback answer, but it's also just like man, how much money have the Titans given out over the last, like, three years, and for what? So far to this point, I still

[Robert Mays]

support a good chunk of it because I think that I was so firmly

[Dave]

in favor of what they did. Even like before they got Cam, when it was with Will Levis. It's like, okay, how are you supposed to evaluate any of this stuff without some sort of infrastructure in place? So I don't say that to be mean to the Titans, really. It's just, it's funny that we're still here, they're still in this phase of team building, even though they've been spending a lot of money to try to get out of it.

[Robert Mays]

It's always fun when you try to solve all these problems and you solve none of them and you have to do it all over again. The other bit of news I wanted to hit at the top of the show today, Malik Willis and just the Malik Willis sweepstakes and what that might look like here in the early part of free agency. Jordan Schultz reported earlier this week, that looks like Malik Willis is going to be getting upwards of $30 million a year. We'll see about that. But I think that the overall, and it's beyond just one report, John Eric Sullivan, who's the new GM of the Dolphins, at his, I think it was on Pro Football Talk or even during his media availability this week, quote, was any team that is potentially in a needy quarterback situation, if they tell you they're not talking about Malik Willis, that would be a lie. So there obviously is going to be a market for his services. And Derek, not to take away from Malik Willis, who I think all of us, when we watched him play in the back half of last year, you watch him in that Chicago game, you watch him in the Ravens game, think the logical conclusion for a lot of folks was this is a starting quarterback in the NFL. He deserves an opportunity to do that. So not to diminish that, because I do think that's true. At the same time, the idea that there is this rabid market for Malik Willis I think says as much about the other avenues and options at quarterback this spring as it does about the viability of Malik Willis.

[Derek]

The 30 million says more about the desperation than it does about Malik Willis. Like this, to me, what Malik Willis has shown, where it's a half dozen of pretty exciting games, you really like the tools. He's still young, clearly got better in his second stop, which I think, like showing some development is a nice thing if you're trying to invest in a Young quarterback. But that to me is like in a more normal quarterback market, potentially somebody who signs for $15 million a year and it's like kind of still a competition. You're not really necessarily committing to him, but this is going to be an amount of money that if you bring him in, like that is your starting quarterback and you don't have any other options.

[Robert Mays]

We're going to throw Malik Willis. People are going to throw Malik Willis into the same bucket that we've seen with a lot of these kind of second chance quarterbacks over the last three or four years, your Bakers, your Darnolds. And I know Malik Willis is a third round pick, but he's a very talented player. Right. Watching how fast I was talking to somebody about this today, watching how fast the market for that archetype of player has changed over the last three years is insane. Baker Mayfield, who was the number one overall pick in the NFL draft, signed a one year, $4 million contract with the Bucs. And then you've watched it climb, right? And so you have the one year was Darnold 10 million, right?

[Derek]

It was like Minnesota.

[Dave]

Yeah, I think, yeah, something like that.

[Robert Mays]

So one year 10 million for Darnold. Last year, it's one year, 15 for Daniel Jones. But even the Justin Fields thing, Justin fields being at 20, I think is a direct reflection of it working with Darnold. And now, because it has worked again with some of these guys, Daniel Jones, Darnold again. Now, the second chance quarterback contract market is $30 million a year. So the fact that it's been, and I know there's nuances and differences in the situations, but essentially we're 8x ing what the comeback quarterback market was from three years ago is incredible.

[Dave]

I was going to say, when you said, we'll see about that, I wanted to ask you, like, do you. Do you not think he's going to hit it?

[Robert Mays]

I mean, I. We'll see how many teams are willing to go to a certain press, because I know there are teams. I talked to a couple people this week. They're like, I know this team likes them. It's just going to be a matter of what price they're willing to do it at. We could talk about some of the situations and I think what the walkaway price would be. So in your mind, as you're thinking about Malik Willis, the other quarterback options and the teams that need quarterbacks, who do you think could justifiably pay $30 million for Malik Willis because that team is harder to find for Me, like

[Dave]

when you, when you break it down and look across the landscape, it does get harder to find a suitor. Let me think about this.

[Derek]

That's like my thing for that amount of money and if I'm going to spend, if I'm going to go into that tier, spending that amount of money, I would rather pursue Kyler Murray. And I know that it'll be a little bit more expensive. But there's so much more proof of concept that that is a good NFL player than there is with Malik Willis. And maybe, maybe Malik Willis is a really good NFL quarterback, but at least with Kyler Murray, like we have seen it before and he, Murray is more akin to the Sam Darnolds, the Baker Mayfields, where it's like extremely talented, top five pick, maybe just had some sort of falling out with his team, maybe had some sort of injury that kind of stumbled him a little bit. Now maybe he can revive it. That's not even really what Malik Willis is like. It's such a different thing.

[Robert Mays]

Here's my concern with this. So the three teams that I listed out like that, I think you could look at and be like, all right, I can understand why they would be involved in Malik Willis, Jets, Cardinals, Browns. Okay, okay.

[Dave]

I was going to say Cardinals for sure.

[Robert Mays]

And then the other, obviously Miami has explicitly said that we might be interested. But here's the Miami problem. It's a money issue, right? Like, is Miami going to have the financial flexibility to sign a guy to a $30 million a year deal? The other three teams can, right? Like the Cardinals can find the money. The jets obviously have the money. And if you look at the Brown situation, my assumption is they're going to restructure Watson's deal. They can restructure Denzel Ward's deal. They could have upwards of like 40 ish million dollars this year. And I think they'd probably be fine pushing money into future years because right now they have like $100 million in 2027 space. And so if they want to free it up and spend, they can. When you're spending $30 million on Malik Willis, though, for the jets, the Cardinals and the Browns, my problem with that sort of price tag is if it's one year, if it's 15 a year and it doesn't work out, you move on. Next year, you're back in the quarterback market. If you're spending $30 million a year, you're likely devoting an amount of resources and eating enough into your 2027 cap where if you are one of the worst teams in the league and you're picking in the top five now you're stealing one year of the rookie quarterback contract window if you have to draft one. And I just, I'm not sure how I feel about that overall calculus if I'm one of these teams.

[Dave]

To go back to your point about the second chance quarterback market changing, these used to be one year flyers and I feel like now, at least in the case of Malik Willis, this is, this has to be like a two year commitment to see if he can be your guy. But I would argue we, and we don't have to get too deep into it because we did it like last week. But if you were to trade for Kyler Murray, that's a two year commitment probably before you can get away from

[Robert Mays]

Kyler Murray because the guarantees that will click into place with his deal early in the league year, it is a two year commitment.

[Dave]

So what's the difference other than I guess you have more proof of concept that Kyler Murray is a pretty good end.

[Derek]

I've seen him be good.

[Robert Mays]

Let me play devil's advocate. You've also seen where the limitations of Kyler Murray are and you talk yourself into Malik Willis not having those same limitations.

[Derek]

I disagree. The limitations in the bottom end of Kyler Murray is as good or better than anything Malik Willis has shown so far. Like you're. And so I just like I'm.

[Dave]

I would rather your Kyler Murray love is still in there.

[Derek]

I'm not going to let it go. He's a perfectly fine NFL quarter and

[Robert Mays]

I don't want to get too bogged down in this because I think that we've seen teams dead money is not an necessarily a roadblock to moving on. Like let's, let's play this out hypothetically. Let's just say that in this draft there were two quarterbacks and the jets were picking second overall. Justin Fields is this year's version of Malik Willis. When you look at the numbers, it was 2 for 40 last year. A good 30 bat was guaranteed. If the jets were to cut Justin Fields this year, it'd be $22 million in dead money. If they were picking second overall and there was a worthwhile quarterback there, you walk away from that $22 million and you never think about it. So maybe that's going to be the same situation for a team if Malik Willis doesn't win work out. But when that number starts creeping up and up and up, there is a consideration there. Like there is an anvil financially that you'd have to deal with if this doesn't work out. Is there a team that you would like to see Malik Willis land with? Of the ones that I mentioned, of

[Dave]

the ones that you mentioned, I just think it's probably cleanest for the Cardinals. Like, if you can move on from Kyler Murray, you have things in place there. You got a left tackle that you feel pretty good about. Trey McBride's the man. We'll see what happens with Marvin Harrison Jr. But like, there's, there's infrastructure there. And so I think it's just like, to be honest with you, it's hard for me to get excited about and maybe this is like off base because it's always easier to clean up finances than I think we give it credit for. It's hard for me to get excited about the Dolphins knowing what Tua's money is going to do to them.

[Robert Mays]

It's really hard to figure out what that's going to look like because I just don't with the Cardinals. The Cardinals are in a spot where I'm looking at the numbers right now as you're talking. If they, they have, they have to be so motivated to trade him. If they trade him before June 1st to Arizona, it's only 7. It's $18 million in dead money. They saved 34 against the cap. Even if they cut him post June 1st, it's $47 million in dead money. They only get $5 million in against the cap. And if they cut him before June 1st, it's a disaster. And so the hope has to be that because in the musical chairs quarterback situation this offseason, there aren't that many attractive options. A team is willing to throw you a six for Kyler Murray and just say, you know what? We're willing to live with the fact that it's kind of a quagmire financially if you're Arizona with the Dolphins, there's no good solution. It's like no one's trading for that contract, I think.

[Dave]

And that's. I think the Cardinals are the closest of the, of the teams that have a very obvious quarterback need, I think the Cardinals are closest to being a compelling team. Like, they have the least amount of work to do. And you put Malik Willis into that situation with a top five, you know, picking top five in this year's draft all the way through, I could, I could get pretty excited about that. That's. That's pretty easy sell for me, especially if that includes a trade Kyler going somewhere else. And you sort of not only tidy that up but free up the money. Hopefully that would come along with it.

[Robert Mays]

And is there a tackle that's worth taking at three if you're Arizona offensive? Yeah, worth.

[Dave]

I don't know about worth. Like there's a guy you could.

[Derek]

There are.

[Dave]

There are guys you could draft. I think the name that I would say is Spencer Fano out of Utah. You'll see. You'll see. A lot of people talk about him. I think Mel Kuiper or one of the big draft experts had him going in the top. Like that's perfectly justifiable. It's not. He's not that caliber of offensive tackle where it's like slam dunk. We feel amazing about this. I think you'd probably feel a little disappointed about the value that you're getting there. But that's the story of this draft class. Like it is not this blue chip filled top 10. And so take the best offensive tackle in the class. I don't think that would be the end of the world at all.

[Robert Mays]

All right guys, before we move on, let's take our first quick break. People keep asking about my 2026 resolutions and sure I've got the usual goals. Read more Tweak my workout routine, make sure I'm eating well. But this year there's a new one at the top of my list. Get comfy. That's where Bombas comes in. They're bringing serious comfort to all my everyday go tos. The all new Bombas sport socks are engineered with sports specific comfort for running, golf, hiking, skiing, snowboarding and all sport. This year I really want to go on some longer walks with the dog over the course of the week. And these socks are perf perfect for that. They're cushioned where I need it most, sweat wicking and loaded with other tech features to keep me comfy and locked in. For those everyday around the house resolutions, Bombas also has you covered with the comfiest footwear imaginable. Anybody doing some spring cleaning and just wanting to be comfy around the house. Their luxurious Sherpa Sunday slippers will feel like walking on clouds. Made with a super comfy and lightweight eva, the Friday sandal, the new squishy Sunday suede slip on for comfort on the go and underneath it all the softest base layers that will have you rethinking your entire wardrobe. Bomba's underwear and T shirts are flexible, breathable and buttery smooth premium everyday go tos that I won't leave the house without. And for every item you purchase an essential clothing item is donated to someone facing housing insecurity. One purchased one donated with over 150 million donations and counting, head over to

[Dave]

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[Robert Mays]

So let's just play this out one step further because I'm curious how you'd feel about this. Let's say Malik Willis lands in Arizona. They managed to trade Kyler Murray. They've got, with a couple more cuts, 90 ish million dollars in cap base to play with. They draft a tackle in the top 10. They desperately need a right tackle. Jonah Williams is a free agent. Kelvin Beecham is 58 years old. They still have Yelta Frohol. We have two guard needs. It's a good free agent class with Edgard. They'll have the money. Let's say they add two new starters at guard. Frohol Paris Johnson, right tackle, pass catchers Malik Willis, Michael Fluor.

[Dave]

You're selling Me, I can start to buy it.

[Robert Mays]

I mean, I'll watch it. I'm not upset about that.

[Derek]

Same as last year. It is all dependent on, like, how good can we make Marvin Harrison Jr. Like, how. How good can we get him up to speed?

[Robert Mays]

Does that matter less because Michael Wilson is Randy Moss?

[Derek]

Maybe.

[Host/Guest]

Maybe.

[Derek]

I also, I do think the Michael Wilson thing is interesting because when he became Randy Moss, they used him like Randy Moss, where it's like, you're going to be our downfield guy. You're going to be running outside the numbers. You're going to be our deep, contested guy, which they obviously wanted Marvin Harrison Jr. To be. But if the new staff comes in and is like, listen, Michael Wilson is clearly better at this. We're going to use him for that. Marvin Harrison Jr. Is going to be kind of our Z adjuster, an oversized version of that. And that's just how we're going to run the offense. I can start to buy it a little bit.

[Robert Mays]

Man, I cannot believe it's February 26th and I'm starting to talk myself into the Arizona Cardinals again.

[Dave]

Embrace it.

[Derek]

Every now and then a team disappoints us, but is not actually as bad as they looked. And I do think the Cardinals are kind of.

[Robert Mays]

That's undeniably true.

[Dave]

I like that take.

[Robert Mays]

I was talking to somebody yesterday. They could no longer call up guys from the practice squad because they had exhausted the amount of roster spots they used over the course of the year. That's how injured the team was last year. I mean, it's that and it's important to remember that, like, this was a team that absolutely. Were they disappointing? 100%. They bottomed out in large part because they suffered a rash of injuries that you just. The level to which you do not typically see in the NFL.

[Dave]

This is a little bit off topic, but I was thinking about this the other day. Remember the Thursday nights Seahawks Cardinals game?

[Derek]

I do, yep.

[Dave]

Just a fantastic Thursday night game. And like the Seahawks won and they looked good. But I would have never guessed that was going to be a team that dominated the super bowl or the Cardinals bottom out or that the Cardinals would be one of the worst teams in the league. Like, it's crazy how much things change.

[Robert Mays]

Jumping off the Malik Willis stuff into the rest of the quarterback carousel here. We've talked a little bit about Kyler, obviously. We talked to Alec Lewis this week about the Viking situation, where Kyler might land. It sounds, you know, based on a lot of the rumblings that Minnesota is not going to be that assertive in the other quarterback option they bring in, that it's going to be something where they kind of wave at the idea of competition. But in reality, there's a chance they roll with J.J. mcCarthy again. There's a lot baked into why that might be the case. We can talk about that if you guys want to. But I also think that makes a guy like Kyler maybe a less likely answer for somebody like Minnesota. And so with Kyler specifically, that brings me to a place where I'm like, where does he make sense? Right? If it's not a team like Minnesota, where would Kyler be? The right answer.

[Dave]

Well, you know what's funny? And I listened. I'm even. Even when I'm overseas, I'm always watching. I listen to the show that you did with.

[Derek]

With Dan.

[Dave]

With Dan, yeah. Talking about, like, oh, well, maybe like, Mike LaFleur is there now, like, between the contract and everything else, like, maybe that's their best option. Maybe Kyler stays in Arizona. And having been here for four days. So, like, I came to Indy with that on my mind, like, well, maybe he'll just stay. And after four days here, I'm just

[Derek]

like, it's become evident that's not the case.

[Dave]

I don't think that's happening, man. So my answer to that three days ago would have been, maybe the boring reality is he just stays a Cardinal. But that doesn't sound realistic. And if that's not the case, I really don't know the answer. I mean, I would love to throw out Pittsburgh, but everybody's just resigned to that being Aaron Rodgers. Maybe that's not true, but that's how it feels.

[Robert Mays]

It's kind of weird. I mean, I'm looking at the quarterback depth charts right now. Like, if you're trying to find a dance partner, that makes a lot of sense. I really don't know who it would be.

[Derek]

I don't know who it's because, like, the, like the Browns, it's going to be really difficult. And I also just wouldn't want to see Kyler Murray in a spot where, like, they have to refill literally all five starting offensive line spots. Like, that just seems like a waste of everybody time. And then the. The jets almost are. They probably make sense in terms of, like, who needs a quarterback who has the money and resources to do it. They make a lot of sense. And the offensive line I actually think is pretty solid and has some pieces. The issue is, like, Frank Reich with Kyler Murray seems like a weird fit. This is still a team that has like zero offensive weapons and maybe they can address that in the draft and free agency and stuff. But kind of until I see what the rest of the jets roster looks like, I'm not sure how excited I can really get over that. But they realistically are pretty, probably the best spot because like Colts, obviously, you know, they might need a quarterback, but they're I don't think really have the resources to do all that Miami's not going to be able to do. Really is hard to find the spot. Unless you think Aaron Rodgers is not going to come back and he's a Steeler.

[Dave]

Let me ask you this and I would go as far as to say this is an insulting idea because I fall along the same lines as you where for all of his flaws, I think Kyler Murray is a perfectly solid NFL quarterback. Does Kyler Murray have to wait for another chance to be a team starter? Like is that not in the cards because of the league landscape?

[Robert Mays]

Well, I think that's going to depend on if he gets cut, then he can get signed to a backup contract. This is to me like what a team trade for the deal. And this is interesting. Like so you look at the finances of it and I think that you guys talking about The Kyler money versus the Malik Willis money, if it's going to be $30 million a year, is actually a good way to think about it. So I think everybody's so scared of this 19 and a half million dollar base salary that Kyler has in 2027 that comes guaranteed three days into the league year. Well, that's all you'd be on the hook for. He has a roster bonus.

[Dave]

It's not that scary. Yes, it's just not.

[Robert Mays]

So that's. It's the exact same. It's the exact same thing we're talking about with Justin Fields. Justin Fields has 22 million in dead money if he gets cut this year. Kyler would be 19 and a half if he gets cut after this year. If you're the jets or a team like that, it's just like who gives a shit.

[Derek]

The worst Kyler Murray is better than the best Justin Fields has ever been. Like, you're not worried about that kind of money when it comes to something like that.

[Robert Mays]

Maybe the jets are in a position position where again, you don't want to eat. 22 for Fields this year and 19 for Kyle next year. You're starting to rob Peter to pay Paul. But again, if you look at the Justin Fields contract and it's no worse than what you'd have to take on for Kyler Murray. And we've seen Kyler Murray play at a much higher level.

[Dave]

I'm. It's impossible to know until we know what happens. But like, I will.

[Host/Guest]

I'll.

[Dave]

I'll be buying stock in, in Kyler's next stop. Like, I, I'm not ready to give up on him as a viable NFL spot.

[Robert Mays]

Let me look at, look at Miami's finances and just see like, what we're talking about here.

[Derek]

If he does get cut, it starts to open up the avenue for a lot of other teams because I do think he might be more willing to sign for something a little bit less like what teams would be on the hook for now. But if it's a trade, it's kind of. It's hard to find a spot other than New York or maybe Pittsburgh. And even then, doesn't Mike McCarthy and Kyler Murray sound weird?

[Dave]

You see that? I'm glad Robert. I'm glad Robert's doing this. So if he's. Robert's looking at the two of them contract and, and well, in the Dolphin salary cap, it's criminal.

[Host/Guest]

So bad.

[Dave]

So if you think the Kyler Murray contract is scary, go look at the Dolphins finances and get back to so bad.

[Robert Mays]

I'm just playing around with over the cap as you guys are talking. And if he, even if he's a post June 1 cut, even if you do that, you still lose $11 million in cap space this year.

[Dave]

There's nothing that's. There's no nice way out of this.

[Host/Guest]

It's.

[Robert Mays]

It's really rough. It's really rough and I'm playing with it right now. So right now, as it currently stands, Even without the Tua contract, the Dolphins have $74 million in dead money on their books. What? Yes. It's a tyree kill. Jalen Ramsey, Toronto, Armstead.

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[Robert Mays]

When you do what the Dolphins did from a draft pick from a draft capital perspective and leveraging your finances in the way they did, when you're trying to maximize these windows, the end is going to be messy. And that's exactly where the Dolphins sit right now. And that's why I think they're a hard team to figure out.

[Dave]

I don't. I don't really blame them. For the record, kind of the same thing we were saying about the Titans.

[Robert Mays]

I understand why it happens.

[Dave]

They tried and they failed spectacularly. But it's better than not trying at all, in my opinion.

[Robert Mays]

The other guy in Arizona that I actually. The Jets. I think could go one or two different ways. And we were talking about this when we were just talking, discussing big off season questions where it's like, okay, what do you want a potential multi year quarterback situation solution or do you just want like eh, we'll figure it out for a year and then we'll actually address it in 2027. Jacoby Brissette for the jets is like, I think it legitimately makes sense. You have the history with Frank Reich and what I like about Jacobe Brissette, I didn't say that he is the. My concern when you hand wave your quarterback position for a year is that you get so bad that you can't evaluate the rest of the roster. Jacoby Brissette will throw the shit out of the ball for 17 games.

[Host/Guest]

Sure will.

[Robert Mays]

Like he will give you enough where I think you can stay afloat and you be your real team. And so that's why that one for me it's like you're a rebuilding team, notoriously good dude, good locker room guy, like making a few million bucks a year. Throw them a late round draft pick. Just see how it goes. Like jacoby percent with the Jets. I do think there's a lot of

[Derek]

boxes that checks if I'm the Vikings. Like if you're not going to be an aggressive at the quarterback market and trying to just get a guy who can kind of compete, I would, I would want a Jacoby Brissette because I think that's a good benchmark for JJ McCarthy. Like if you can't be better than Jacoby Brissette, we've got a problem here.

[Dave]

Are we okay with the Vikings not being at least somewhat aggressive about their quarterback issue here?

[Robert Mays]

Here's why I think this is potentially okay. What is the best case scenario if you go out and you get aggressive with a guy like Kyler Murray? Like, do you think that you're a Super bowl team with Kyler Murray as

[Derek]

you think can be? Yeah, I don't think. I'm not like picking them to win the nfc, but I can at least like see a viable path. Like we can be the 2 seed in the NFC. We can win 13 games and if Kyler gets hot 3 times in a row, we actually have a shot.

[Dave]

I know that it's dangerous to look at it this way.

[Derek]

It is, but there's definitely away. They win eight games and it blows up.

[Dave]

We're a year removed from Darnold doing

[Derek]

what he like, we're like a month. We're a month removed from Darl doing

[Dave]

it We're a year removed from the Darnold deal and everybody being like, murray

[Robert Mays]

is good as Sam Darnold.

[Derek]

Yes.

[Dave]

That sounds like I. I think he has the potential to be as good as Sam Darnold. Yeah. Like, it sounds silly considering everything Sam just did, but we didn't feel that way about Sam a year ago either.

[Derek]

Sam, don't. Sam Darnold played, like, two good games from November and on.

[Dave]

Played the game of his life.

[Derek]

He played the game of his life in the NFC title game, to be fair. But that's kind of the point, is that a quarterback of this caliber, if he can just get hot at the right time, the rest of the Vikings roster right now is good enough for that.

[Dave]

If Sam Darnold is worth taking that chance on. And it's obviously a little bit different because Sam was a free agent and you don't have to potentially trade for him. But, like, I'll take that chance on Kyler Murray, too. Absolutely. Like, I think it could be similarly rewarding, especially on a team that's already got a really nice roster.

[Derek]

I would feel worse.

[Robert Mays]

I'll hear that argument.

[Derek]

I would feel worse having this roster and not giving ourselves the best chance, even if it blows up and we nuke ourselves in two years. I would feel really bad about not giving this roster the best chance.

[Dave]

Hoping. Hoping that it's better than awful. Again, it just doesn't sit right with me, like, considering we had 10 games of what J.J. mcCarthy was. And that's not to say that he can't be a better player, but just like, hoping that it won't be as bad as it was last time, that. That doesn't sit well with me when. When Justin Jefferson has already been in the league for six years.

[Robert Mays]

And that. That's arguably that argument, the Justin Jefferson part of this, to me is the most compelling reason. It's because it's like, that's. The issue is that it's. I think there are two different arguments that you could make about this. I think that trying to scramble to get the most out of this aging roster and saying, like, we have to do everything we can to make sure 2026 is maximized because the rest of the roster is aging. I think you can make mistakes thinking that way.

[Dave]

Yes.

[Robert Mays]

But at the same time, I think that rolling with the exact same. If you roll with JJ again, and it's the same sort of issues again, what that does to a Justin Jefferson, the erosion that happens, like, with the culture and everything else in the building, that, to me, is Even if it can be misguided to have that level of urgency to maximum maximize this year, the downside of allowing it to play out again and having this further rot with everything else, I think that's also real. You're damned if you do, damned if you don't. Like, that's, that's the problem here.

[Derek]

That is the thing. Like, there's a more likely than not neither of these options work out for them being like a serious super bowl contender. But like I, to me, like, at least going after a guy like Kyler Murray, not running it back with JJ McCarthy, it like replenishes the buy in, if that makes sense. And I think that that is kind of important, especially when we're. Kevin o' Connell's been there a long time, like at this point in like a coach's tenure, that you kind of need to find ways to be able to do that unless you already have the elite quarterback there to kind of facilitate that. And they obviously don't. And so I think this is kind of a good way to do that.

[Robert Mays]

I have one more suggestion for you.

[Derek]

Let's hear it.

[Robert Mays]

Anthony Richardson.

[Dave]

Oh, I'm willing to listen because as

[Robert Mays]

of yesterday reports, both sides have come to a place where they're going to allow him to seek a trade. And so I don't know, is that actually the most exciting, compelling option for the Vikings?

[Dave]

Do you need me to pull up the clip of Kevin o' Connell telling Anthony Richardson to remember that he's a bad MFer? No. It's funny because I was not, I was not bought in on Anthony Richardson, the prospect because of the small amount of games and the inconsistency, and I thought that all got carried away. But once you're here and the price to acquire him is not going to be high, and again, if it's an accomplished offensive head coach like Kevin o' Connell with a roster that can put him in good positions, I don't want to get too far out ahead of myself. But like, even if I didn't love him as a prospect, that's very intriguing to me. The flip side of that though is, and I mean, Anthony Richardson is so freakishly talented, but like, isn't isn't that what you have already? You're like, oh, this guy's talented and could be good, but he hasn't shown it yet. I mean, we already, we already got him on the roster.

[Derek]

I will say it makes the competition more interesting to me than with a veteran because this is like a true, like, even terms competition where it's two young guys who have not played a lot of football together. They're both kind of talented, have never put it together, have often been injured, and I think it would be fun to like, see which of those two kind of comes out on top. My thing with Anthony Richardson, everyone with the draft and with the Rams having an extra first round pick are like, oh, they're going to spend it on the quarterback. They need these contingency plans. Why not trade for an Anthony Richardson? Yeah, I'm kind of into that one. Like, that's where I'm looking at it from.

[Robert Mays]

That's actually. I actually do like that. Like, they're in a position where if they just want to like, take the dice roll.

[Derek]

Yeah. And if he sucks, who cares?

[Robert Mays]

A couple other quarterback names to throw out. Matt Jones. Just based on everybody I've talked to this week, just like, it's going to be too pricey to get Mac Jones out of San Francisco. And I mean, it sounds like we're talking like a second round pick and change because of how cheap he is. And I think that's part of it is that like when you. The combination of young and cost controlled is just. His price is going to be at a place where I don't know if teams are going to be willing to pay it, even if they're desperate in the Mac Jones mold. Like, how many years ago was it where like everyone was like, how many Kirks are you remember? Remember, like that version of quarterback discourse. Matt Jones is like somewhere on the Kirk timeline. And so Kirk also released where Kirk ends up again. We just talked about, is there a winding spot for Kyler Murray? Like, is. Is. Does Kirk want to go to Cleveland? I sincerely doubt that. Like, is. It currently stands. If you look at it, it's not going to be Minnesota, which obviously comes with a million different complications. And that's why I think it might not happen. It kind of seems like Kirk might be destined for, like very high end. We're protecting ourselves backup status in this cycle, even if it is a down year.

[Dave]

Contender. Backup.

[Robert Mays]

Yes. Right. Like, doesn't that make sense? Yeah, like, it's.

[Host/Guest]

I.

[Robert Mays]

The Kirk is the type of quarterback the Colts should have tried to have behind Daniel Jones in the back half of last season.

[Dave]

I just want to say one more time, it's. It's frustrating for me that I don't want to act like it's this cure all that would solve your quarterback issues for the next decade, but there are intriguing options out there for the Pittsburgh Steelers and it like it, but it doesn't sound like they're interested in any of it. And maybe that's wrong. Maybe we'll see. Maybe they've got more up their sleeve than just reuniting with Aaron Rodgers, but

[Robert Mays]

doesn't seem like it.

[Dave]

Exactly. And like that's, that's disappointing to me. If like, you know, you, you could do things to, to upgrade the talent there, get younger, get more talented, give yourself some upside. And it doesn't sound like they're interested.

[Robert Mays]

My approach to the Aaron Rodgers in Pittsburgh situation and Omar Khan came out this week and said there's no deadline, but he doesn't foresee it going as late as it did last year. I'm going to spend no time or energy talking or thinking about this until we have clarity. Whether it is or isn't Aaron Rodgers,

[Derek]

I think that's fair.

[Robert Mays]

If it's not, tell me. If it is, tell me. Until then, I'm not going to spend a single second thinking about it.

[Derek]

Especially now that we've already seen what it looks like. At least last year when he was kind of doing this dance, it was like, you know, maybe we'll see what he looks like at a new team. We've already seen what he looks like with the Steelers. I don't really care anymore.

[Robert Mays]

We're going to take our second break here and then come back and chat a little non quarterback combine news.

[Host/Guest]

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[Robert Mays]

Dave we're at the combine, so it's time to talk about Dallas Cowboys contract drama. Oh man, the Cowboys are tagging George Pickens. Jerry did his how are you? Happy or sad that you no longer have to do the Jerry combine? Gaggle?

[Dave]

A little bit of both.

[Robert Mays]

It's the only proper response.

[Dave]

It's fun and it's a whole spectacle.

[Robert Mays]

But where does he do it? On the bus?

[Dave]

Jerry has his bus driven up to Indy and usually on. Actually, I don't think he's done it yet, for the record. Oh, he hasn't? I don't believe so. He usually will have the bus pull up next to the stadium on Saturday afternoon and he'll come down from drills and sit on there for 50.

[Robert Mays]

How many seats are on the bus?

[Dave]

The bus can seat. There's a couch, there's a couple of like captain's chairs like it could seat. It can seat like Seven guys. So it'll be like, there's two newspapers in Dallas. The team website will be there. John, our guy with the Athletic will be there as well. So, yeah, it's like seven reporters that get to go on.

[Robert Mays]

Well, why it matters less is because, let's say for a lot of these teams, right, like, just like to peek behind the curtain for people who don't really understand some of this stuff. Like, so a lot of teams will do this where they will have off the record either conversations or even dinners with the local media. And it's hugely valuable because you don't really get that sort of time during the season. There are some teams. Dallas was like this. Jason Garrett used to do this where he would do an off the record session with the pros, like weekly. Right. And so that. That's not really normal. So for a lot of press corps, if you. When you go to the combine, having that hour of off the record conversation with the head coach or the general manager is as valuable as anything you're going to do all year. One of the reasons that it's not quite as important with Jerry is he talks every day.

[Vanta Advertiser]

Yes.

[Dave]

So I was going to say the

[Robert Mays]

scarcity doesn't really matter with Jerry Jones.

[Dave]

Jerry hasn't done his annual combine thing, but we still have quotes from him talking about what he's going to do because.

[Robert Mays]

Exactly. Right.

[Dave]

He talks. It's all right. We don't need to get inside baseball with beat coverage. But when I covered the Cowboys, every time you would come to something like this, other beat writers would inevitably be like, oh, you're so lucky. Your general manager talks all the time and you just have all this content. And I was like, yeah, he talks all the time. It sucks. I want to cover a team where the general manager disappears for three months and I can take some vacation.

[Derek]

Good Lord.

[Robert Mays]

Yeah, he's talking constantly. And that's why I assumed he had already done it, because he came out, told reporters that they're going to restructure all these contracts. And so they tagged George Pickens $28 million, even after tagging him. What Jerry said was, it sounds like they're going to restructure Dak, they're going to restructure CD and maybe Tyler Smith. So if you look at the numbers financially for Dallas, if they restructure all those guys and they cut Kenny Clark, that's $35 million in cap space. And so that gives you at least some financial flexibility, even with some of those bigger deals on the books. And the Pickens tag to try to add a couple pieces to your defense here and that's that. That's what has to happen.

[Dave]

My inkling from being here, I don't, I don't think they want to cut Kenny, but they got to get that number down something.

[Derek]

Yeah. It's not that he's a bad player.

[Robert Mays]

That's exactly right. And so it's a. But when you're looking at it, when you can free up $21 million in cash base to move on from him, that's two starters.

[Host/Guest]

Yeah.

[Robert Mays]

And so you can't justify that level of. And especially when you already have OSA and you already have Gwinnett Williams on the roster. Being able, if you cook any Clark that's a linebacker and a safety, like, so it's just about opportunity cost. It has nothing to do with the quality of Kenny Clark's play.

[Dave]

I think they're going to try to like, get something renegotiated with him and

[Robert Mays]

that's also an option.

[Dave]

And if they, if they can't, then, yeah, do what you have to do. But I mean, we did this on the biggest questions of the off season show like it's all, it's all there for the Cowboys. Like, once you process the Micah Parsons trade and whether you agree with it or not, what's done is done. The resources are there. They have all the money they could possibly want to do whatever it is they think they need to. They have two first round picks. And I'll just steal your line about not caring what the Steelers do. Show me. I don't care. Do something, do anything. And it's already frustrating because it sounds like we're going to do the Pickens dance for at least a little while. Hopefully it doesn't extend into the summer, but based on their history, I can't say I'm optimistic.

[Robert Mays]

But here's the difference with me in Dallas and Pittsburgh, from a player acquisition standpoint, 100%. Show me until it happens. Like, I'm not going to spend a lot of time talking or thinking about it. The fact that the Cowboys moved on from the static, kind of staid world of Mike McCarthy and the Steelers are stepping into it, that's what creates the intrigue around the Cowboys for me. And that's why I will be more excited about them. That is probably justified.

[Dave]

I agree with you. The thing is, is I've done this before and I know, like, we love the Christian Parker hire. The Cowboys staff is. It's young and energetic.

[Robert Mays]

It's not like it's been in A very, very long time.

[Dave]

I agree with that. It still requires the people in charge of the purse strings changing the way that they've approached off seasons for 12 years at this point.

[Derek]

The fact that they seem willing to

[Robert Mays]

restructure all these deals, though, is like. Like, that's a level of financial aggression that they have not shown in a while.

[Dave]

I want to believe, like, let's be clear.

[Derek]

David's like, we need to cross the finish line before I'm even thinking about the race.

[Rippling Advertiser]

I want.

[Robert Mays]

This is a broken, beaten down man. He's seen too much.

[Dave]

Because we're going to do this. We're going to. We're going to get all excited, like, oh, they freed up all this money. They're going to get aggressive. They have these draft picks and then free agency, like, the legal tampering. We're able to do deals on, like,

[Robert Mays]

Monday and we'll be live for five hours, buddy.

[Dave]

I can't be ready for that. And I can't wait for Monday afternoon to roll around and like, it's just crickets on the Cowboys front while the first tier of free agents fly off the board.

[Derek]

No, they're going to sign a $4 million linebacker and that'll be it.

[Robert Mays]

That's okay to me. Like, I don't need them to be shopping at the top of the market. Like, they're a team that they need a safety, they need linebackers, they need edge, depth. If they solve that with a lot of mid tier free agents and two first round draft picks, that's an acceptable solution.

[Dave]

You are right. And no, I don't need them to do anything insane. But. All right, let me rephrase. It won't be Monday. I need them to have done some things by, like, Wednesday after.

[Robert Mays]

That's fine. Okay. All right. And they don't do that. Yes, they usually. That's true. It's May before they do stuff.

[Dave]

12 days after free agency starts and they're like, all right, we're ready to do some shopping.

[Robert Mays]

Rubbing their hands together.

[Rippling Advertiser]

Cool.

[Dave]

Can I interest you in a lightly used Kenneth Murray Jr?

[Robert Mays]

One thing I want to flow to you guys. I'm just curious how you think about this Tag and Pickens. Let's just say hypothetically, you get a call from a wide receiver. Needy team. We'll give you a one and a three for George Pickens. Do you do that if you're Dallas.

[Derek]

How good are the receivers this year?

[Dave]

A 1 in this year's draft? Yeah, I'm not. That's. That's a nice price But I don't think I'm interested. There was like, there are good receivers in this draft. There are always going to be good receivers. With the way the game is now, I think Dane's top 100 has 17 of them. So, like, there's talent. But I think I. George Pickens is 25, by the way. He's not yet 25. He turns 25 sometime in March, I think. I think I'll just take the 25 year old who just did what he did. And that's what frustrates me with where the Cowboys currently are. And like that's. People have talked about that. I saw there have been like proposed trades of like Max Crosby and a. And a two for George Pickens.

[Robert Mays]

Something like that. I think is that. That that's maybe even more creative than just another first round pick thrown onto the pile.

[Dave]

I just. The offense was already like one of the best in football. It really was. And to know that you have that and to know that Dak Prescott is closer to the end of his prime than the beginning at this point, I just, I'd rather try to maximize that window with this collection of talent. You have two first round picks if you do your job well. And Dallas hasn't been drafting quite as well as their reputation suggests the last like two or three years. But if they hit on these picks, like you could be. You could be cooking with gas really quickly. And I think I'd rather just not get too cute because I was that impressed by what their offense was.

[Robert Mays]

All right, so let's do this one. Would you use one of those first round picks to trade for Max Crosby if it was a first round pick

[Derek]

and change, But I can keep George Pickens? Yes, yes, yes.

[Host/Guest]

If.

[Dave]

Yes, if I get to keep Pickens and I'm only giving up one of the ones, Yes, I would do that.

[Robert Mays]

Max Crosby right now. And this is why it's a little bit different than the. Than the Mica contract would have been in large part because the Mica contract, if you had spent a ton of cash on that deal last year, the Max Crosby deal, he's obviously on an extension. It's $30 million in base salary in 2026, but the cash just would not be nearly to the same level. And if you wanted to restructure that deal to give you some flexibility against the cap, you could. And so I'm sure some people be like, well, you just didn't do the mica thing. Why would you pay Max Crosby? There are enough differences and nuances to that where I could understand wanting to go down that road.

[Dave]

I mean if you, if you come out of all of this and the upshot is you have a couple more big time draft selections than you would have and Quinn and Williams and Max Crosby are under contract with the Cowboys and like, and George Pickens is here. It's way too soon to declare winners and losers but like if that was the upshot I would, I'd feel pretty solid about it.

[Robert Mays]

Anybody else on the George on the Max Crosby horizon that you've been thinking about when it comes to team fitness?

[Derek]

I threw out the Rams because they have all the picks and I think that's crazy.

[Robert Mays]

But if you're ready.

[Dave]

Who's, where is he playing?

[Derek]

He's better than everyone they have except Jared Verse. What do you mean where is he playing?

[Dave]

What are the snap counts on that team?

[Robert Mays]

My God, how much math have you done, Scott, about figuring out if the Bears can fit Max Crosby into the cap? Yeah, it's tough because I was talking about this yesterday Chicago radio but the Bears right now as it currently stands have the fifth highest number allocated to edge rushers against the cap of any team in the league with Daiwo Bangbo. Dial Dangbo.

[Dave]

Really? That's not a great place to be

[Robert Mays]

considering

[Derek]

they probably have the worst like dollar per sack in the NFL.

[Robert Mays]

It's a tough situation. So I, I would, I love to see Max Crosby in the bound the Bears. Yes. But I just think when you think about the resource out allocation and everything else, just hard to pull that off and so we'll see. I, I, the other team I keep coming back to is just.

[Dave]

You said, you said San Francisco.

[Robert Mays]

San Francisco. Yeah, like I just, like I just think if you look at can they

[Derek]

make it work money wise? I think they can.

[Robert Mays]

I think they can. And then so the other bit of San Francisco news that's worth talking about, the Trent Williams stuff where it seems like they're trying to get his number down. I think Barnwell did a really good job of this. Like there are some levers that they can pull into some leverage ploys that San Francisco has to try to convince him to push that down. So that's just something to keep an eye on is like what happens overall with the Trent Williams money situation with the Niners as well.

[Dave]

I do like and the Cowboys are always going to dominate those sorts of conversations because of who they are. But outside like the, the handful of teams where I really feel like it makes a lot of sense for Max Crosby, it's just, it's not as big as I would have guessed.

[Robert Mays]

It's just a big price. Yeah, I mean, it's just. It's just a big price. I think that there. And honestly, I think that fewer teams have the appetite for those sorts of deals when you just consider like the history of them and the downside of them, all of it. The other guy who has been in a ton of trade conversations, and I think this is one where it is worth paying a lot of attention to it for a bunch of different reasons is A.J. brown. Right. So it seems like in talking to folks here, it's very possible that we're headed for a divorce with AJ Brown and the Eagles. And this has more to do with A.J. brown's desire to move on than the Eagles thinking that they'd be a better football team without A.J. brown. But talking to people last night, it just seems like we've kind of reached the end of the road with this thing with like him wanting to be there. When you think about the quality of the quarterback play, all the Turnover on offense, etc. The price for A.J. brown, where Max Crosby be a one and change. Right. I think you think about positionally, the age, all of that kind of stuff. I think A.J. brown for like a two and some scraps is possible. So A.J. brown right now he's 20.

[Dave]

He turns 29 this summer.

[Robert Mays]

Turns 29 this summer. With receivers, the age curve is a

[Derek]

little bit different, especially one like him where it's like, it's a pure explosiveness and so.

[Robert Mays]

Right. It's been hard on his body.

[Derek]

It reminds me of like DEZ Bryant where like when it goes, it's gone.

[Robert Mays]

Yeah. So I think that's absolutely consideration.

[Dave]

That hurt my.

[Derek]

I'm sorry.

[Host/Guest]

And it's.

[Robert Mays]

I spent lot of time looking at.

[Dave]

And I love AJ I don't want AJ to like go over a cliff like that.

[Robert Mays]

I spent a lot of time looking at and studying this over the last day because it's impossible to know the finances for the Philadelphia Eagles. He has a minimum base salary which every guy in The Eagles does 27 and a half million dollar option bonus for AJ Brown this year. So if you are the acquiring team, you have one of two options. You can not execute the option. You can pay him 27 million or like 28 million against the cap this year and then you have flexibility beyond 20, 26 or you can execute the option bonus in the same way the Eagles would. And if you. If you want to, and you want to play the financial game the exact same way The Eagles were where you just take on the contract and you execute the option bonuses in the same way Philadelphia would have. You can get A.J. brown for minuscule cap hits over the next two years. You're pushing into future years. So when I look at that and I think about the financial levers needing to be pulled, the price that it would require and the team that needs a player like this, it's Buffalo, it has to be. It's just, it's. They don't have a lot of flexibility. They need this exact skill set. I think based on through the grapevine stuff, he'd be open to playing there or might want to play there. That's the one where on June 2nd, if I'm the Bills, I just think if it's on the table, it's a move that you almost have to make.

[Dave]

Do you think? I mean actually Howie's probably the perfect guy for that because typically when we're, when you're talking about trades of that magnitude, the team trading the player wants the pick before the draft. But like the Eagles are so good at stockpiling things and getting ahead of things, they also.

[Robert Mays]

The money just doesn't make sense. Like trading him before June 1st. Like what the dead money you'd have to take on. It's, it's almost a non starter but trading him after June 1, it's absolutely

[Dave]

something you could do. I do wonder how that affects the price though. Like sure, 2 and 2 and change makes sense but if you're not getting

[Robert Mays]

them in this year's draft final until the next draft. Yeah, yeah. Well it's, I mean two and changes will eat maybe the price you'd have to go for a normal team. I'm sure that with the Eagles there would be 20 picks involved and it'll be future years and it'll be this and it'll be that. But I think when you think about the finances, the price tag, everything else, if the Eagles decide they are going to move on, I still just come back to Buffalo being the team that makes the most sense. Anything else from this week that we have not hit that you guys feel like has been at front of mind for you over the last 72 hours or so.

[Derek]

To me, some of the play calling news I think is kind of interesting in terms of who's taking it on. Like I think the Sean Payton giving it up to Davis Webb one is interesting insofar as like Sean Payton has never done that. But it's not that interesting insofar as the only way to keep him on the staff was to basically let him call play. So it's like, I get how we have. How we arrive here. Dave Canales giving it up to Brad Izik is more interesting to me because I don't think that that's really, like, a point of contention for, like. I mean, maybe they were worried about Brad Izik moving on, but I think it's interesting that Canales, like, even talked about, like, I want to be able to do more of the head coaching job and not just call plays, which I totally get. Like, he got the job as a play caller, but I think if you're going to grow in this league and be, you know, do this until you're 55, 60, 60 years old, you probably do want to be able to get better at a little bit of overseeing and things. And so I think it's kind of interesting that he's already wanting to take this step and give it to Idzik, who obviously he was familiar with and

[Robert Mays]

worked with in Tampa Bay and Seattle. I mean, those guys have known each other forever. Forever. They go way, way back. Brad. Brad and Dave do. And I think this is something that they were dancing around last year. I think that during the summer, I think that there were some, like, initial conversations about whether that's something they'd want to eventually explore floor. They didn't end up doing it last season. I think Breck, I think it's a called it a little bit during the preseason. And so I think that the wheels were in motion about this a while ago. This is not something that I think they just came to at the end of this season.

[Derek]

It's not a snap decision.

[Robert Mays]

No, it is not. I think it's something that they had been kicking around back and forth, and they just decided to let Canalis call it for this year. But when I saw that, it was not surprising based on just conversations I had had when I was there for training camp last year. That's what I would say. It's not a reactionary thing. Okay.

[Derek]

Yeah. And I didn't imagine necessarily to be a reactionary thing, like, oh, my God, like, we've got to panic and do something. I just found it interesting that usually when the head coach is your play caller, they don't give it up. Like the offensive guys. Sometimes we've seen more. The defensive guys are a little bit more willing to give it up, but the offensive guys are usually like, this is my baby. I'm going to do this. I'm not going to give it up.

[Dave]

Play calling is like the usually the last thing you do before you go get fired or if you're like trying to keep that from being the next.

[Derek]

And that's why it's interesting because I don't really imagine that being the case with Dave Canalis scooted into the playoffs in a way that you shouldn't have.

[Robert Mays]

It's interesting. I'd be curious to talk to him about this. But it's funny, I was talking to somebody about this today where obviously the pathway to head coaching opportunities is extremely different when you are a play calling head coach and when you're a non play calling head coach. So let's just look at this cycle. For example, you had non play calling offensive coordinators get head coaching jobs. It was the Cardinals job, right? It's just the types of job. And think about the guys who, you know, Todd Monkin is in a different sort of situation. Right. Todd's a little bit older, all of that. But the other guys who were interviewing for the Browns head coaching job that were finalists for that job, they were offensive assistants who were not play callers. So if you're not a play calling offensive coordinator, you can get head coaching opportunities. You're just getting head coaching opportunities that are probably a rung or two further down than you want them to. And so some head coaches who are play callers in order to give guys pathways to better head coaching jobs, they're like, hey, you can go be a play caller somewhere else. I won't block that. If they're going to give you the opportunity, I'll let you do it. It almost seems like Canalis has just done it in house where it's like in order to give you a better opportunity, I'm just going to let you do it here rather than you taking it somewhere else. I don't think that was imminent, but I think that's just kind of a nod to a guy to like maybe give him a better chance as he moves forward in his career.

[Dave]

And that was my big takeaway. Similarly to the Davis Webb news. Not that it's surprising, but it was just further confirmation of what we were guessing based on how much interest he was getting in the hiring cycle. Because I think like the average NFL fan, I mean Davis Webb was, he was drafted highly as a quarterback. I think people were aware of him. But the amount of interest that he drew I think opened a lot of people's eyes. And then for Sean Payton to give him play calling, it just further cements for me like okay, this guy, if he's not a rock star, yet he's about to be a rock star. And like I would imagine, I hesitate to compare him to your guy, Ben, but he's going to be that sort of candidate, though, like now, like, that's

[Robert Mays]

the only way you become that sort of candidate is if you're calling plus Absolutely right. And that's part of it when, when the allure you build up is different than when you're the play caller.

[Dave]

As Reese like, as soon as assuming, you know, the Broncos look like they're going to be very good, assuming everything stays on track this season and you know, Ben obviously had multiple offers and decided to stay in Detroit for the extra year. So over the next year or two, I really feel like Davis Webb is going to have the opportunity to rise to that level of candidate where teams are just throwing, throwing the checkbook at him when he's ready to take a head coaching job.

[Robert Mays]

The only difference, and there are several differences, but I think the most important difference is the Panthers one. And this is outside information. Outside looking and no inside information. That one seems very like clean and amicable. The Broncos one seems messier.

[Dave]

That's what makes it. That's, that's what makes it interesting to me is like it is great if a head coach wants to do that, but I would have guessed you'd have to pry play calling out of Sean Payton's cold, dead hands.

[Robert Mays]

Whether and based on my understanding and this has been reported that he would consider he was considering doing it even in season, it seems like he was okay seating it, but you had to fire an offensive coordinator to get to this place. So it just seems like overall the dynamics at play with the Denver situation, again, just a tiny bit messier than what we're talking about with Carolina. All right, that is all we've got for today. The next show on this feed will be coming to you guys on Monday. We've got a little combine recap. We're doing an early release for building the Beast next week.

[Dave]

I can't wait. Dane is. Dain has been ping ponging around this building for the last four days getting hand measurements. He's learning about, like, which high school guys transferred to and we're gonna have it all. It's gonna be awesome. And the as we're sitting here recording, I can see the drills have started. So he's. Dane's probably like, oh, his guy Caleb Banks. Oh, oh, Caleb.

[Robert Mays]

Oh, man. Dana's watching Caleb Banks run through on the 40 right now, salivating. Dane.

[Dave]

Dane is like somewhere on that 40 line. Wait this is actually riveting TV.

[Host/Guest]

Caleb.

[Dave]

Caleb Banks is the man.

[Robert Mays]

All right, so what? See how this goes. 66 and a quarter, 327 Caleb Banks, defensive lineman from Florida.

[Derek]

Oh, false start.

[Robert Mays]

Well, it's just this is terrible podcast. Now we got to cut it off. So Monday combine recap Dave and Dane. Tuesday we're going to be doing a free agency themed mailbag on the show. So another mailbag. We're going to be doing them weekly during the off season other than select weeks like free agency week. But we love doing them. We're happy to be doing them. This one's going to be free agency themed. So if you're listening to this on Friday, start sending in your questions. Athletic footballshowmail.com we would love to hear from you. For now, that's all we got. Appreciate you guys listening. Dave and Dan will talk to you on Monday. Par le tu francais hablas espanol?

[Derek]

Parl italiano?

[Host/Guest]

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