The most interesting teams of the offseason, part 3: Bengals, Ravens and Eagles

Summary

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The Athletic Football Show (Feb 26, 2026)

The Most Interesting Teams of the Offseason, Part 3: Bengals, Ravens, and Eagles

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Episode Overview

Host Robert Mays concludes his off-season series by diving into the pivotal crossroads facing three perennial contenders: the Cincinnati Bengals, Baltimore Ravens, and Philadelphia Eagles. Featuring in-depth conversations with the teams' beat writers—Paul Dehner Jr. (Bengals), Jeff Zrebiec (Ravens), and Zach Berman (Eagles)—the show dissects why 2026 feels like a make-or-break year for all three franchises. Heavy on detail and sharp on analysis, the episode spotlights how roster moves, coaching changes, financial pressures, and looming contract decisions are shaping three of the NFL’s most scrutinized organizations.

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Cincinnati Bengals: “A Year of Existential Dread”

(00:00–27:40)

State of the Franchise

• Pivotal Crossroads:

  • The Bengals enter 2026 with heightened urgency: resources in hand, but major questions on defense after a poor season.
  • "This is it. Everything is kind of... all of it points to it needs to happen now, or there is going to be a lot of questions that no one quite knows the answers to." – Paul Dehner Jr. (04:06)

• What’s Looming:

  • For the first time, there’s a tangible feeling that continuity may end—Zach Taylor's job security, Joe Burrow’s future (albeit unlikely to leave), creation of a new team identity potentially on the horizon.

Spending, Cap, and Team-Building Philosophy

• Conservative Approach to Cap:

  • Bengals have ~$50M in cap space. If they restructured Burrow, could free up ~$20M more, but are reluctant to jeopardize future flexibility.
  • "His [Duke Tobin’s] point was, ‘we have a plan where we don't have to [restructure].’” – Dehner Jr. (09:22)
  • Frustration among fans/media that ownership won’t go “all in” like other teams with star QBs.

• Mid-Tier Free Agency:

  • The Baker’s signature move has been stacking the roster with mid-level free agents rather than stars—a formula that paid off in 2021 (Mike Hilton, Chidobe Awuzie, etc.).
  • “They need floor raisers... bring in floor raisers that can help it so it can't look like last year.” – Dehner Jr. (19:20)

Defensive Overhaul: Where to Spend?

• Defensive Tackle:

  • Top off-season priority, but weak DT free agent/draft class. May need to overpay for John Franklin-Myers-type or try to develop in-house talent.

• Linebacker:

  • Disaster last year fielding two rookie LBs. Urgent need for a veteran stabilizer ("force multiplier"), possibly Bobby Wagner or Demario Davis type to help young guys develop.
  • “Defensive suicide. You can't do that. The defense cannot operate in this league at this moment with guys that don’t know what’s going on…” – Dehner Jr. (15:11)

• Edge Rusher & Youth Dilemma:

  • Pass rush still needs a jump, but unwilling to block first-rounder Shemar Stewart’s growth—difficult balance between urgency and patience.

• Safety, Cornerback:

  • Free agency could offer affordable upgrades at safety; less concern at corner.

The Stakes for Zach Taylor

• Staff Continuity and Pressure:

  • If the defense doesn't rebound, Taylor could be out. “This is it for Zach Taylor, man... it's going to be new coach time in Cincinnati.” – Dehner Jr. (22:55)
  • If Taylor fails with a healthy Burrow/Chase/Higgins core, ownership may rethink the current regime.

• Bengals Head Coach: A Good Job?

  • Unique organizational circumstances (patient ownership, but resource-constrained) mean future HC candidates must adjust expectations—and will get time to figure it out.
  • “Never bet against Joe Burrow, and being with that guy is probably going to work out well for most people.” – Dehner Jr. (25:52)

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Baltimore Ravens: “A Franchise at a Fork in the Road”

(30:44–51:44)

New Era Post-Harbaugh

• Regime Change:

  • Jesse Minter replaces John Harbaugh after 18 years; Anthony Weaver back as DC to stabilize shifting staff.
  • “...this was my first head coaching change... most comfortable transfer of power… but it was a really interesting process.” – Jeff Zrebiec (31:26)

• Staff Construction:

  • Unusual number of college coaches on staff, with a focus on player development.
  • Lamar Jackson heavily involved in new OC/DC hiring process.

Financial Headaches, Cap Constraints

• Huge Cap Hits:

  • Lamar Jackson’s $75M cap hit needs to be restructured/extended to create flexibility. Steve Bisciotti suggests adding void years if extension isn’t done by FA.
  • Marlon Humphrey ($26M), Roquan Smith ($32M), and Justin Madubuike ($30M), all have hefty cap numbers.
  • Notably, none of these top players have agents, complicating negotiations.

• Roster Pillars in Flux:

  • Marlon Humphrey very unlikely to return at current number. Madubuike extension is a “head-scratcher”: optimism, but no clarity yet.
  • “They have both an offensive and defensive line that badly need to be fortified... they need a high impact edge rusher.” – Zrebiec (39:45)

Where Will the Ravens Be Aggressive?

• Pass Rusher Priority:

  • After years of middle-of-the-road pass rushers, this could finally be the year the Ravens “take a big swing” (i.e., Jalen Phillips).
  • “[Eric DeCosta] saying, you know what, I know how we do things here…I know how I’ve always done things. We need to change it up a little, get a little more aggressive...” – Zrebiec (41:17)

• Draft and Asset Flexibility:

  • 11 draft picks, including four 5th-rounders, as usual for the Ravens. While they have ammo, they rarely trade up for stars.
  • Retaining Madubuike would be the "biggest addition" they could make.

Offensive Line Dilemma

• Multiple Starting O-Line Holes:
  • Realistic possibility of needing to replace all three interior OL spots. Tyler Linderbaum’s extension talks are delicate; Ravens reportedly have offered a "market-setting" deal, but negotiations are slow.
  • “You better have a plan to replace him... and that plan can’t be using one of those day three picks.” – Zrebiec (49:11)

Organizational Tone

• Feeling the Pressure:
  • After years of steady success, Ravens fans and front office both sense more urgency for bold change.
  • “I think there’s a feeling they need to be more aggressive this offseason... Eric DeCosta... it's kind of on him now.” – Zrebiec (50:28)
  • Look for the Ravens to be more active than usual early in free agency.

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Philadelphia Eagles: “Tinkering or True Transition?”

(53:29–end)

Offseason Arrivals & Departures: Coaches and Core Players

• Coaching Turnover:

  • Offensive staff shakeup with Sean Mannion (first-time NFL OC) replacing Brian Johnson and Jeff Stoutland (legendary OL coach) leaving.
  • “He’s the best assistant coach I’ve seen.” – Zach Berman on Stoutland (55:27)
  • Multiple philosophical/schematic changes coming.

• Offensive Core Uncertainty:

  • Speculation around AJ Brown’s future and the health of Dickerson/Johnson generated “smoke” about instability, but Berman emphasizes separating typical physical wear-and-tear concerns from deeper organizational change.

AJ Brown, Cap Strategy, and The Eagles Roster Plan

• AJ Brown Dilemma:

  • Brown’s dissatisfaction could force a trade despite no football reason to do so. If forced, a post-June 1st trade would yield cash savings despite dead money.
  • “They’re not scared of dead money... they really separate the cap and the cash.” – Berman (57:56)
  • Eagles preparing for upcoming waves of young, cost-controlled defensive talent to eventually supplant highly paid offensive stars.

• Star & Rookie Strategy:

  • Notable for avoiding “middle class” deals: fielding a roster of expensive stars, rookies, and minimum/lottery contracts.
  • “Their roster strategy is stars, rookie contracts, and one-year lottery tickets...” – Berman (59:40)
  • Future “stars” like Jalen Phillips (priority to re-sign), less likely they’ll retain mid-tier FAs.

Defensive Needs and Positional Outlook

• Edge & D-Tackle:

  • Jalen Phillips (FA) is a classic "Eagles guy" at premium position, but price matters.
  • “There will be a number that's too high for Jalen Phillips and then they need to pivot.” – Berman (62:40)
  • DT is strong; Campbell’s presence mitigates loss of Nakobe Dean.

• Secondary Holes:

  • Eagles like their “elite” duo of Quinon Mitchell and Cooper DeJean (the latter can play everywhere, but prefers slot).
  • Outside corner opposite Mitchell is unclear; likely a one-year vet again (“this year's Adoree”).
  • Safety spot opposite Drew McKuba is also in flux; Blankenship likely priced out.

• Draft/Positional Trends:

  • TE: Might finally prioritize a true blocking TE under Mannion/new scheme—Eagles have rarely drafted or valued that shape of player.
  • O-line: System change may require more “agility,” but they’re unlikely to shift drafting philosophy much.

Organizational Identity: Range of Outcomes and Internal Mood

• Uncertainty & Experimentation:
  • Sense of intrigue and risk with Manion as OC: no play-calling history means wide range of possible results; staff turnover is the “yearly” expectation but this time brings extra instability.
  • “This is going to be a different offense. You have an offensive lineman of blue chip players... you're taking these guys and you're saying, all right, let's run a different scheme. It could be re-energizing, but it could fall flat.” – Berman (74:12)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Paul Dehner Jr. on Bengals urgency:
  "I think Bengals fans would be like, I think what's looming over this year is existential dread..." (03:55)

• Jeff Zrebiec on Ravens' OL woes:
  “You can’t just depend on 11 draft picks...to fill some of these holes.” (37:54)

• Zach Berman on Eagles’ cap approach:
  “They’re not scared of dead money...they really separate the cap and the cash.” (57:56)

• Paul Dehner Jr. on Bengals’ coaching future:
  “No one said this, but I think everyone understands: this is it for Zach Taylor, man.” (22:55)

• Robert Mays on Bengals’ perennial tension:
  “The rug is going to get pulled out from under me again.” (21:26)

• Jeff Zrebiec on Ravens’ FO pressure:
  “I expect them to be more aggressive than what we’re used to...because, you know, they don’t like going to the draft with major holes.” (50:34)

• Zach Berman on Eagles’ range of outcomes:
  “Yet another year where it feels like the range of outcomes associated with the Philadelphia Eagles is as wide as you could possibly imagine.” (74:49)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Start | End | |-----------------------------------------------|-----------|----------| | Bengals: Existential Offseason | 03:11 | 27:40 | | Ravens: New Regime/Cap & Roster Challenges | 30:44 | 51:44 | | Eagles: Coaches, Cap, Core’s Future | 53:29 | 75:01 |

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Conclusion

This meticulous episode distills why Bengals, Ravens, and Eagles fans alike are gripping their armrests entering 2026. Each franchise is rich in talent yet facing rare organizational volatility, with bold questions about spending, philosophy, coaching, and identity looming. The season ahead will almost certainly be era-defining for all three teams—successful recalibration could cement their contender status, while failure may trigger regime change and roster upheaval.

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Transcript

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[Zach Berman]

Foreign.

[Robert Mays]

Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mays. Our most interesting teams of the off season series rolls on but also comes to its conclusion today. Three teams that are in an interesting spot just because we're used to them being kind of playoff fixtures and contending level teams, but for each of them, some level of turnover and consternation. Maybe this offseason started things off with a conversation with Paul Dana, who covers the Bengals for us, about the Bengals plan for fixing their defense in what is becoming an increasingly important year for Zach Taylor, and that staff followed that up with a great conversation with Jeff Zaribeck about the Baltimore Ravens, who I mean, this is a new situation for a team that spent 18 years with the same head coach. A lot of financial things looming over the Ravens. More needs than typical for the Ravens, who have to figure out how they're going to scrounge up the money to fill some of those needs. And then our old buddy Zach Berman, who covers the Eagles for us and does a fantastic job, came on to chat a little bit about just the state of the Eagles. The last time we talked to Zach, we were talking about the offensive coordinator search in Philly. It was before Shawn Manning got hired, but after that we have Jeff Stoutland moving on. We have Lana Dickerson and Lane Johnson contemplating retirement. So talk to Zach about how much of this is just another year of Eagles tinkering and how much of this is actual cause for concern with. With the path that the Eagles were on. Really enjoyed all of these conversations and every discussion that we've had with our beat writers this week. Hope you guys do as well. Let's get to it right now. Joining us now, it is our esteemed Cincinnati Bengals writer here at the athletic, Paul Danor Jr. How you doing, buddy?

[Paul Danner Jr.]

I'm doing great. This is one of my favorite moments of the combine because you always pick the Bengals because it's always something weird happening.

[Robert Mays]

So I love it mostly just because I like talking to you about the Cincinnati Bengals. That's like 60 of it. Yeah, the Bengals are always an interesting team because it always feels like there's something looming over the Bengals. Last year it was T. Higgins. This year it's not as much drama, but I think it's in a really pivotal off season just because of how bad the defense was last year. And they do have some resources to spend. And so I think that's where a lot of my intrigue lies with this Bengals team is, okay, here is a pile of money, a smaller pile than I thought, by the way, but here is a pile of money that we're going to need to use to fix this defense. What is that process going to look like? And that's what I want to dig into today.

[Paul Danner Jr.]

Yeah, you talk what's looming over them. I think Bengals fans would be like, I think what's looming over this year is existential dread. You know, of like, this is the

[Robert Mays]

feel good fairy dust has worn off.

[Paul Danner Jr.]

This is it. Okay. This is the year. Everything is kind of. We've been talking about this a lot over the last couple of months. We haven't had a lot else to talk about, but is how every single thing that's happening right now feels like is just another underline under the arrows pointing towards this year. It has to happen or else there's nothing you can count on beyond that. I mean, from Joe Burrow's words himself, right? Like, there was a reason why I wanted to ask the most pointed question last year, which is, are you here next year? Like, let's just talk specifics. Yes. Anything beyond that, you Think about a lot of things was what he said, you know, like that the coaching staff. This is the first time we've ever seen de facto GM Duke Tobin named in a support statement from Mike Brown. Everything that's been known as this is who the new era Bengals are with Zach Taylor and Joe Burrow. And everything is about to maybe change if. If they can't make it work this time because they have the continuity. They have year two, Al golden, this coordinator. You have almost everyone back on this offense that they have, that Zach Taylor and Dan Pitcher have built around Joe Burrow and Jamar Chasen, T. Higgins, like all of it points to. It needs to happen now, or there is going to be a lot of questions that no one quite knows the answers to in terms of how deep it will go.

[Robert Mays]

The urgency is very real, and I think the urgency would have been real for most franchises last year. Right. It. This is a different team. They operate a little bit differently. We know that. I was talking to a coordinator yesterday. We were just discussing what head coaching jobs might come open next year. It's one of the first ones we started talking about. It's like, if this goes poorly, the Bengals job will be open potentially with Joe Burrow. Potentially, maybe not. Like, right. There's a lot of stuff hanging in the balance for this Bengals season, specifically.

[Paul Danner Jr.]

I mean, I would say most likely with Joe Burrow. Can I. Here's my thing.

[Robert Mays]

Yeah, that's.

[Paul Danner Jr.]

Can I. Can I just do one thing here? Because the national conversation often goes to, how can we. How can we get Joe Burrow out of Cincinnati?

[Jeff Zerieback]

Right.

[Paul Danner Jr.]

Here's the thing that no one ever talks about in that conversation. Joe's not going to leave his guys. He got Jamar and T signed. They want to play football together. They love playing football together. And he's not going to be like, deuces boys. Enjoy that. I'm out of here. Okay. Now, when all their contracts run out, which isn't that far off in the distance, it's a totally different story. But he. That's. That's not necessarily what's going to happen, but the dynamic changes. Those guys just want to win. Joe Burrow has been a lot of time scoring a million points, losing games and getting hurt. Okay. It's frustrating. He's frustrated. So, yes. But he just wants to win. I think they all would be perfectly happy playing in Cincinnati if they can just do what they think that they can do each offseason that hasn't quite turned out. So that's kind of the part of It, I think that often gets overlooked in this conversation.

[Robert Mays]

I want to be clear about this. I don't think Joe Burrow will leave Cincinnati. That was more nodding at you, just saying that, like, who knows what will happen beyond this year. The idea that, like, Joe Burrow is not going to be on the Bengals, he's going to force his way out or Joe Burrow is going to get traded next offseason, like, that is very, very far away from my radar. Or like, to me, that's like the most remote possibility. I do not think that's going to happen, nor do I care if it happens.

[Paul Danner Jr.]

But the dynamic changes in terms of how loud the groundwork about his future in the NFL is. This is a very pivotal crossroads season for them in terms of if you can't win here under these circumstances where all they've got to do is fix the defense. And I know that's saying a lot when you consider where it was and you have all of this continuity around an elite quarterback and then maybe the best receiver in the NFL and maybe the best one A as ja' Marr Chase will call him, T. Higgins in the NFL, you have all, all of these pieces, good coordinators, like, you have all of that. If you can't do it now, everything needs to kind of be rethought. And I think that would be something we've heard Joe Burrow be very loud publicly about trying to get the team to do things in the past. Like, I just think all the dynamics change. If you're like, we can't do it with this, what. What can we do? And that ends up leading the next five years of Bengals conversation potentially. So it's just, it's pivotal year to show that they can do it because they're set up to. As much as it may feel far away last year, one good off season and fixing the defense can get you to where you want to be.

[Robert Mays]

And here's where some of the frustrations about what the Bengals are start to creep in, because this is a pivotal off season. I think most other teams in this situation, the Bengals, as of right now, looking at something like over the cap of about $50 million in cap space. If they restructured Joe Burrow's contract, they would give themselves instantly another $20 million in cap space. And if they wanted to seek out three to four new starters on defense and do the exact same thing they did in 2021, where they completely microwaved the defense with free agents and it got them to the super bowl, in theory, they'd have more money to do that. Duke Tobin was asked yesterday during his combine me availability do, is he going to restructure Joe Burrow's contract? And the answer, in many, many words to say nothing. Seemed to be no.

[Paul Danner Jr.]

Seemed to be, we have a plan that we can do what we think we need to do this offseason without having to jeopardize future years.

[Robert Mays]

Or they have $150 million in cap space next year.

[Paul Danner Jr.]

Yeah.

[Robert Mays]

What, What I mean, jeopardizing future years?

[Paul Danner Jr.]

Well, yeah, I mean, talk in terms. Yeah, absolutely. I'm just saying this is a philosophy. And I mean, I feel like every time we talk to Duke, we, we ask him some version about this. Is there ever going to be a time where you go a little bit more all in? And his point's, I'm always all in. I'm all trying. Well, we know you're trying hard. Like, we know. We know it matters to you. We know it. The bottom line is an all in is. Is that move like is is saying, hey, we have a chance to get Minka Fitzpatrick or we have a chance to make a trade for whatever it is, some ad that somebody at the top, Jalen Phillips or whatever you want to do. It's like, well, that wasn't in our plan, but that's available to us if we're willing to just, hey, let's just use the borough money like most quarterbacks with those types of deals do.

[Robert Mays]

It's obviously a reluctant free up, so you would spend if you did that. And just looking at the math off the top of my head, he has how many more years left on his deal?

[Paul Danner Jr.]

329.

[Robert Mays]

Yeah. So he has three more years left on his deal after this. So if you prorate that $20 million, it's an extra $7 million on the cap each of the next three years. It's nothing, right? It's nothing. And so like, that's, that's how the frustration starts to creep in a little bit.

[Jeff Zerieback]

Yeah.

[Paul Danner Jr.]

You sound like every Bengals fan I talked to. Yeah, I mean, it's. There's no doubt, but this has been their philosophy. They just don't believe in doing it that way. They believe in having the contract set the way that they set them. And now, in fairness, we don't know what they're going to do. He didn't rule it out. He didn't say we wouldn't do it. His point was we feel like we have a plan where we don't have to. So they have done things differently in regards to Burrow. So they. I mean his contract looks different than any other Bengals contract that's ever been signed. It was, it was 100% in line with all of in structured way that all the major quarterbacks contracts are. So maybe it is. Maybe they are holding that in their back pocket and they just don't feel like a need to talk about it. I don't know why you would want to hide that as much as maybe they kind of do, which suggests that maybe they're not going to do it. But I don't. I'm not going to like cross it all the way off. But you know, we'll see if, if there's a player and there's an opportunity in free agency and the reason they didn't do it was because of money or that's used as an excuse. It's hard not to hold that against them if they don't use that lever.

[Robert Mays]

You look at what's happening right now, if it ends up settling somewhere around that 50 million, the positions of need. You laid it out kind of as like a big board positionally on the athletic, I think it was last week. Defensive tackle in your mind is still probably the number one need on the team. You said that for the second straight off season and I can understand that. Right, like so you have Chris Jenkins who draft in the second round. He has not come along. TJ Slayton is a run stuffer. BJ Hill was banged up last year. He's getting a little bit older. And you do have some young edge rushers in the pipeline. The problem as you laid out free agency is not the place to be looking for an interior defensive lineman. So the thought might be in the first round there might be guys at that spot available when they pick. So interior specifically makes sense as like a round one target for the Bengals.

[Paul Danner Jr.]

Yeah, I mean the problem is who's that? Yeah, this wrong year for that, you know, I mean 10 overall.

[Robert Mays]

Yeah, that's the, that's the problem. If they're picking 25 again, there's a lot of guys go back and you

[Paul Danner Jr.]

know how you go back and you look through drafts. You'll find some really nice defensive tackles from that like 8 to 15 range. Man, there's a ton of dudes that are some of the highest paid defense tackles in history. That's where they've come off the board. And then this year it's just not there. Now you can talk yourself into somebody and maybe they're going to do that this week with whoever, but it's not now I think the depth you like better, but that doesn't fix your current problem. And is that whoever you bring in, if you draft another second round defensive tackle, well, is that you're still in the same spot that you're at with BJ Hill and Chris Jenkins and these guys. So to me, you know, John, Franklin Myers is not going to be the world's greatest pass rushing three technique. You can. He's flawed as a top of the free agent guy at that position, but he's better than anything else they got. And so if you're going to extend yourself somewhere like we were kind of talking about, like that would be the direction that you would go. But again now you're in this bucket with all these other people that need the exact same thing and he's the only real guy that looks like that kind of. So it's a. I'm interested to see if they have any real pursuit over him to add into their mix because for their situation, I think he would be a nice piece that it's okay, like you can put other guys around him a little bit. He doesn't have to be a star, but you just got to pay him. Like you're just going to have to

[Robert Mays]

pay the price at every position. I think defensive tackle, edge rusher, linebacker, corner, maybe not. We know that's two starting outside corners are and they probably need one starting safety. But at defensive tackle, edge rusher and linebacker, I think all three of those positions, my question is which of those spots do they feel comfortable with like in house development from young guys and which of those spots are they? Like, you know what, we can't rely on that because linebacker to me feels like the position where you. Even if they invested in it last year in the draft, the gap that those guys have to close to get to a level where you feel good about them is so big that I would argue that trying to solve it in free agency and just saying like, you know what? This didn't work. We need an instant solution. You can justify that even if you spent two draft picks on guys last year.

[Paul Danner Jr.]

They used the term force multiplier a lot yesterday in terms of like, you know, like they need. We talked to the linebackers coach, Mike Hodges, who's went through it last year, two rookie linebackers.

[Robert Mays]

It was tough.

[Paul Danner Jr.]

We talked to him at the end of the year and it was like, let's just wait till the end of the year to have this conversation, right? And his point was, I've never talked to anyone that's had to coach Two rookie linebackers starting next to each other. And I was like, let me go double check and look it up. I had to go all the way back in terms of the amount of snaps that they played. They both were well over 100 tackles a ton. Over 700, 800 snaps. I had to go all the way back to 2012-40. Find two rookie linebackers that play that much next to each other. It's defensive suicide. You can't do that. The, the A defense cannot operate in this league at this moment with guys that don't know what's going on at the, at the cortex. Like, you can't do that. And so that to me, I point to somebody like, there's a number of veteran linebackers that are out the Demario Davis is the Bobby Wagners. There's a ton of guys in there, early early 30s, that could be players for you or even if just. You just need somebody who can stabilize that group to let those guys actually develop and not feel like they're just trying to stop from drowning every day, every game. And that was so much amongst many things, the core of what was going wrong. We would laugh because what must it have been like last year to be an offensive coordinator playing the Bengals during the week and be like, what can we do to mess with these guys? Every week it was reverses and like all. All this stuff, all this crazy heads

[Robert Mays]

pop in real time every single week.

[Paul Danner Jr.]

Offensive coordinators were having so much fun just toying with the linebackers every week and they had no clue what was going on. So adding in some sort of leader at the center that can, I think that can make those guys, you can feel better about those guys if you just have somebody else that can help stabilize things for them. And then the other side is the Shamar Stewart quandary that they put the themselves in. Because he was hurt. He also looked really lost when he was out there. Like really lost. And he was always going to be a project. He was raw, great athletic ability. But now you're in a spot where you don't want to block him if you believe in him. Miles Murphy did finally break out last year. You, you, you, you. Like I'm out on Miles Murphy last year. He eventually finally did it. It took three years, but he did finally come along last year. Year.

[Robert Mays]

That's the problem. Do they have another three years to wait for Shemar Stewart? I don't think they do.

[Paul Danner Jr.]

They don't and so. But you can't block him. But it needs to be better now. They do they can move him around. He's more of a moving, versatile piece where he can kick inside. So I've used the name like Draymond Jones, who you could pair with him nicely, who's versatile in and out as well. So they're both on the field in different roles. You're not blocking him, but you are augmenting your pass rush. So there's players that probably can fit what Shemar needs. So he's still playing, but it's a tough spot because Duke's number one thing is pass rush is king. I have to get the pass rush better. It hasn't been good enough. It's the core of so much of what's going wrong for them there as well. Well, how do you do it when you're also. Then you are ultimately counting on Shemar Stewart to be part of that. He's your first round pick last year. And so if he, if he is not, if it does take another year, that could be what brings the whole thing down.

[Robert Mays]

The nice part about this, when you look at the needs that they have, the guys who will be available in free agency and the amount of money that they have, you can imagine a scenario where this does come together in a way that works because the positions they really need and this free agent class, we're going to talk about it next week, there are not a lot of stars at the top. You mentioned a couple of the addressers who are going to get paid. Whether they're in that market, I think remains to be seen. But for the most part this free agent class is thin at the top, but there is a middle ground of players where there are a lot of starting caliber guys. And especially at positions like linebacker and safety, you can find starting caliber guys as a very reasonable price. So the idea that you can go out and sign a, I don't know, let's say it's a Quincy Williams or like a Devin Bush or guys like that. For seven to ten million dollars a year at linebacker, you can go find a starting safety for that price. You can go find a complimentary rotational edge rusher for that price. Like you can find three or four guys to add to the mix here that add up to $50 million and maybe feel pretty good about where you stand at the end of it. That is possible in this free agent

[Paul Danner Jr.]

crop specifically, and that has been the Bengals primary approach in free agency over time is to try to take advantage of the. Of hitting in the mid tier. And they've. And when they've been at their best in 20, 21 and 22, that's what they did. Mike Hilton, Chita Be, Wuzier, Von Bell, Larry Ogan, Joby, all guys that were huge pieces of maybe the best two year run in franchise history. It was built on the back of mid tier free agents. And so I think they see that as their path here because what I've been using is the phrase is they need floor raisers. I think they're inevitably, their ceiling is inevitably going to be decided by all the young players that they've drafted, whether they develop or not. But they have to bring in floor raisers that can help it. So it can't look like last year. There has to be a level that it's just if you have enough players that are solid, reliable, they just didn't have starting level players playing last year. And if that's what's available in free agency, you can take advantage of that. But there, there's areas that we can talk about and we have about the pass rush. Like, I don't know how you're going to get to the ceiling that you need to get to, but you can raise the floor enough that you can get it where maybe guys can develop the force multiplier thing around them. And so I think that's. It feels like the most likely approach, the most Bengals approach, you know, a, a, a Draymont Jones, Caden Ellis, and maybe their stretcher is like, hey, Minka becomes available and they're able to add a mink on the back end to stabilize. Like that feels like a plan. Like that feels like a thing that you would see maybe happening with them.

[Robert Mays]

It's interesting because I think safety is the one position where there's so many guys available that that feels like a spot where you could skimp a little bit in terms of like the tier of guy you're seeking out and still get somebody you feel decent about. Like, nick Cross is 24 years old.

[Jeff Zerieback]

Yeah.

[Robert Mays]

You know, could you get somebody like that and feel like that's an upgrade over what you had before? And I think linebacker is the same way. It's just, it's one of those things where I feel myself already talking myself into the idea that like, oh yeah, this could be okay and then the offense is going to be great and I just know the rug is going to get pulled out from under me again.

[Paul Danner Jr.]

Right. And then it's Thursday of free agency and you're like, how come the Bengals didn't sign anybody?

[Jeff Zerieback]

Right.

[Paul Danner Jr.]

Like, it's, it's just weird things like that have happened. They've just, it's found ways for it to go sideways in what's felt like unforced errors a lot. You know, they last year were so focused on T and Jamar that they essentially lost their focus and sat out on free agency on accident and it hurt them all year. They didn't have the starting level players that they should have added in on Wednesday of free agency because they were getting those deals done and dealing with the Trey Hendrickson debacle that just got worse and worse and worse and they obviously didn't handle his situation properly. You can't have the unforced errors in an off season where you just. They don't have to be perfect, but they need to be B plus. Okay. You can't just have a bunch of unforced heirs and not signing the right type of guy. And they get it thrown back in their face when they say we've done this before, we can do it again. They have had multiple seasons runs of success in free agency, understanding how to handling it and being successful. I think that they can do that. They just haven't in the last couple of years. I don't think they forgot how to do it. But this is it. Like it goes back to the beginning of the conversation. Now or never, man. Like, because everybody that's here making these decisions right now might not have a chance to make them again if you don't do it right.

[Robert Mays]

And you feel that change in dynamic as somebody that's there every day, you feel, you feel that there is like very much so. There is, there's a level of urgency here that there just hasn't been before in like Taylor era.

[Paul Danner Jr.]

Unquestionable. And I think, you know, I. No one said this and but I mean I, I think everyone understands like this is it for Zach Taylor, man. Like it probably should, should have been. I think he got the benefit of the doubt on the burrow injury last year and the fact that they were changing over coordinators and so much. Many problems happened in trying to build personnel in connection to what Al golden actually wanted and that blew up in their face. It's like, okay, well we'll give you a chance to build this other defensive vision now with everything you've got. And we understand what Al golden once now in year two. I think we, we didn't understand that properly last year and now it needs

[Robert Mays]

to go work or else, you know,

[Paul Danner Jr.]

it's going to be new coach time in Cincinnati and it'd be a job. I mean the idea of going to get Play with coach Joe Burrow is not a tough one to sell.

[Robert Mays]

Well, it's so funny because it's, there are factors and arguments on both sides. Right. Coaching the Bengals and the way that the Bengals operate as a franchise, there are challenges there that there wouldn't be in a lot of other buildings. You also get Joe Burrow.

[Paul Danner Jr.]

Yes.

[Robert Mays]

So, like it's their competing forces on both sides when it comes I, that is something where if it seems like we're headed to a place in the middle of the season or in the back half of the season, it's week 13, they're under.500, it feels like this is going to be over. I'm very much looking forward to asking people in and around the league, is this a good job?

[Paul Danner Jr.]

Yeah.

[Robert Mays]

Like, is the Bengals head coaching job a good job? Because I think that there are arguments that it absolutely, absolutely is on a bunch of different levels. You get a top five quarterback, no matter how you slice it, you get arguably the best offensive skill position player in the NFL. It's easy to make that case. And you get an organization where there's going to be real patience to allow you to see this through. So even if the resources and some of the spending and some of the support staff isn't at the level of an average NFL organization, there are still plenty of arguments for why this is actually a good spot to land as a head coach.

[Paul Danner Jr.]

And then you also have to deal with being the coach at Cincinnati Bengals, which is, it's a different, it's just a unique challenge in understanding how this ownership operates differently. And that takes time. The good news is they'll give it to you. But it does take time to understand why things are different here compared to other places and figure out how to work around that. I mean, after 2019 and 2020, when they hired, he was 625 and 1 and they were like, run it back and they went to the super bowl. And so that's validating.

[Robert Mays]

Yeah.

[Paul Danner Jr.]

So, so, you know, they're going to sit there and say, well, we, last time we were really patient with our guy. And so you're gonna get that. So what's important, you know, if you're a coach and you're, you want, if that was where we were at. What's important to you in a job, is it just getting, you know, you'll probably get that third year of the check. You'll win whatever it is. Like, I, I don't, I don't. It depends probably on the coach. I, I, I just say never bet against Joe Burrow and being with that guy is probably going to work out well for most people.

[Robert Mays]

That's typically what I would say. Yeah, that's typically what I would say. And I think, again, there are, like, we don't have to dig into this fully, but when you talk about ownership groups and which ownership groups are. There are some teams like the Titans in this cycle, I think that there were some coaching candidates that were scared off just because by the nature of the ownership and how volatile it's been over the last few years, the Bengals ownership isn't volatile. It's just very cautious. And it's. And so there. There's a difference between having an ownership or having an owner that's consistently meddling and making your job harder in that way, and having an owner that's probably not giving the things you need to be on proper footing to compete in the NFL. And that is where Cincinnati is. And so those are two different sets of problems.

[Paul Danner Jr.]

Yeah, I mean, it's. Yeah, it's a different scenario. And you get in there and then you have to find out what are the workarounds.

[Robert Mays]

Yeah.

[Paul Danner Jr.]

Like, how do I. That's why it's a unique job to take. Like, how do I find a way to work around in terms of managing up and down and dealing with whether it's less resources or different voices that you have that you talk to and, you know, approaches to free agency and contracts and all that stuff. So it's a unique job. But for now, Zach Taylor, you know, who's the last man standing in the AFC north, somehow, is it could be the next John Harbaugh here. Because guess what? If it did come together and they made a run that Joe Burrow's more than capable of, he ain't going anywhere for a while.

[Robert Mays]

But you buy yourself even more time.

[Paul Danner Jr.]

Yeah, yeah. And they will be like, look, we know this guy can do it now. He's done it multiple times in different. You know, you could see that being the end game or it's over. And that's why all the pressure is on this year, because this is that crossroads season.

[Robert Mays]

Paul Danner, always great to chat with you, sir. Great to see you. We will do this again very soon.

[Paul Danner Jr.]

I look forward to seeing what we're talking about next.

[Robert Mays]

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[Jeff Zerieback]

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[Robert Mays]

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[Robert Mays]

cargurus.com foreigning us now it is our Ravens writer here at the Athletic, Jeff Zerieback. Jeff, how you doing?

[Jeff Zerieback]

Good, Robert, how are you doing?

[Zach Berman]

Very well.

[Robert Mays]

The Ravens are a part of this discussion in part because for the first time in 18 years, they have a new head coach and a new coaching staff. So a very new feel to what is going on in Baltimore after John Harbaugh moves on. Jesse Minter is hired. Your initial kind of thoughts, reactions to what the first month or so of that staff has been like as you've gotten to ask him some questions, watch the actual coaching staff come together, all of that stuff.

[Jeff Zerieback]

Yeah, it's been interesting. I've been covering the Ravens since 2011 and this was my first head coaching change and I've had one, I've had one general manager change and it was the most comfortable transfer of power, zero trouble whatsoever you can possibly have. And you know, once Harbaugh got let go, the number of our writers who have dealt with this on an every other year basis just taunting me saying, yeah, now you know how we feel. So, yeah, it was an interesting, I thought the process was really interesting. I mean, you know, they interviewed 20 people. They interviewed three college coaches. Names haven't even basically come out because that wouldn't be fair for them with the recruiting benefits you'd get and all that. Or you know, how it could hurt your recruiting and just how, you know, I think you went in knowing Jesse Minter's history, knowing the whole factor of Mike McDonald, and there could be a feeling. Look, we missed on this one. I'm not saying Jesse's Mike McDonald, but the mold. So you thought he was kind of the favorite going in, or at least one of the favorites. And that's how it ended up. But to get there, you know, to interview 20 people and do what they did there and then even their coordinator search, I mean, it wasn't, it wasn't really predictable. Like there's not a ton of guys that Jesse, you know from the Charger staff. You have a couple. But you know, Declan Doyle wasn't really on my radar when we started this, you know, but it's an interesting staff. I think Jesse did a really nice job for being a first year head coach and obviously Decost and his staff helped him a lot. Just getting out of his comfort zone and bring in guys from, you know, they have three college coaches on their defensive staff, so it's an interesting group.

[Robert Mays]

Yeah. When I watched all that come together and how a new head coach builds the staff, why they build the staff for those reasons is always so interesting to me. And you mentioned it, there's a bunch of college guys on that staff. I think that not only do they bring Jesse Minter back and kind maybe trying to atone a little bit for letting Mike McDonald's out of the building, but bringing Anthony Weaver back as the defensive coordinator, that was part of the problem in the year. One of the Zach or regime is that it wasn't just losing Mike McDonald, it's that you lost half dozen assistance off of that 2023 staff. And so bringing back Jesse Minter and Anthony Weaver to kind of bolster that side of it. And you may not have had Declan Doyle on your radar. I can tell you he was on mine. So it's seeking out, trying to figure out how to tap into that offensive system that the Bears and the Lions have had so much success with over the last couple of years. That to me is one of the more fascinating questions about all of this is that, I mean, the Ravens offense with Lamar Jackson is very different than what the Bears did last year with Ben Johnson and what Ben Johnson has been doing in Detroit. And so where they land and who they want to be and how close it is to what that offensive structure looked like in Chicago, that becomes a fascinating question. And so. So on every single level, the guys that they ended up with from the head coach on down make me more interested in what the 2026 Ravens are going to look like.

[Jeff Zerieback]

Yeah. And you know, credit to Anthony Weaver too for having the humility to come back. He was a finalist for that head coaching job. He had been passed over twice for Ravens defensive coordinator job. But for him to be able to come back, and I think that'll be a huge resource for Jesse Minter. He needs somebody to command that room. Well, Anthony Weaves is a really good coach first and of all. And we saw how many issues they had with just the defense not appearing to be on the same page and you know, just the breakdowns they consistently had and not playing up to the talent that they had on that group, and he'll help there. But Jesse really needs a guy that's going to run that room, run those meetings, and they need to start developing some young defensive linemen, too. That's been an issue here that we've seen play out. So, yeah, it's. It's definitely an interesting staff. And, you know, the other aspect of it is Lamar Jackson's, you know, input on it. You know, he met with Declan Doyle for a while. He was involved in the mentor process. And, you know, this is the off season of Lamar in Baltimore. It seems every off season is. It's just, what. What's the question? But they're pretty pleased so far at his level of engagement in all these things because they want him involved. It's up to him to kind of step in and be involved.

[Robert Mays]

The other element of this being an offseason of Lamar, $75 million cap it for Lamar Jackson, as it currently stands, that needs to be addressed in some way. The base salary is astronomical. Like, if they wanted to just convert it, they would be able to. But then I think you're looking at like an $87 million cap at next year. And so based on everything I've read, the questions you guys have asked, it seems like the best solution here for the Ravens to get that number to a tenable place that would allow them to them to do some things in free agency is for Lamar to sign an extension. There have been some not competing messaging about that, but I think it was DaCosta kind of came out and said, we need this to happen before free agency in order to give us a little bit of wiggle room. Jesse Minter was not quite as firm about that timeline. So where do you think this ends up settling? Do you think they get an extension done with Lamar before we get into the free agency period, so they can spend a little bit.

[Jeff Zerieback]

Call me skeptic, skeptical, because I've covered these Lamar negotiations before and nothing ever happens quickly.

[Robert Mays]

Yeah, we're two weeks away.

[Jeff Zerieback]

Yes, I know. So to think that it's going to get done in short order, I think at some point they will reach an agreement on extension with them. But I see, you know, Steve Bischati was pretty clear when he talked about it, and thankfully, because we've talked about this before, Robert the walking on eggshells around all things Lamar Jackson, the organization, I don't think it helps anybody, and I think it hurt John Harbaugh in the end. So Bishotti just put his cards on the table, said we want to sign a new extension, we need to sign him extension. But if we can't, we're just going to add void years to the back of his deal and he's going to have a similar cap number in the ad last year and we're going to have the room to do what he needs to do. If I'm guessing, I think that's probably the route this goes. And then they agree to a deal at kind of a later date. But that's fine, right? Yeah, exactly.

[Robert Mays]

The biggest problem is if you again, if it's an 87 million dollar capit next year because you restructure it, eventually you're going to need to sign that extension. But that gives you an entire another year.

[Jeff Zerieback]

Exactly.

[Robert Mays]

Figure that out.

[Jeff Zerieback]

Yeah, I could see them buying some, buying themselves some time but. And I'm sure we'll get into it a little bit, but I can't remember, you know, I've been covering steam for a while. It's been a long time, Robert, since they've had this many needs that need to be addressed. So they need that money, they need that space. You can't just figure, you can't just depend on the 11 draft picks, most of them on day three, to, to fill some of these holes.

[Robert Mays]

There is. So there are such big looming financial questions surrounding this team right now and I think that the first set of those questions is the guys currently on the roster or guys hitting free agency. So the Lamar question you talked about, this is something you wrote this week. Marlon Humphrey is a $26 million cap hit. They would save $7 million. They moved on from him. He did not play at the level of a guy making the $26 million last year. Namdi Matabk has a $30 million cap hit this season. We don't know what his future looks like. And so there are just so many kind of load bearing pillars. Rogue One has a $32 million cap hit this year. There are just so many load bearing kind of pillars of this team as we've come to understand them that have at least some questions hanging over them as we get into March.

[Paul Danner Jr.]

Very true.

[Jeff Zerieback]

I cannot see Humphrey being back at that number. And he's another guy. He doesn't have an agent. So those pay cuts become harder to navigate his team.

[Robert Mays]

Does Roquan have an agent?

[Paul Danner Jr.]

No.

[Robert Mays]

So Roquan Lamar and Marlon Humphrey don't have agents.

[Jeff Zerieback]

Three of the top. So I can't imagine Eric DaCosta's getting a whole Lot of sleep these days dealing with some of that stuff. But yeah, like I can't imagine Marlin's back under that current deal. But I also think he's a proud guy who it matters to him to be in Baltimore. He'd love to finish his career here. So he'll probably play ball with them and he's not getting anywhere close to that on the open market. So maybe he'll. There's some leeway there. The Matabike thing is the biggest head scratcher. They just kind of. He's been in the building. Everyone says his upbeat. He said some stuff on social media that lead you to believe he's gotten some good news but they won't talk about it and he won't make himself available to talk about it. So yeah, they have so many decisions. They have both an offensive and defensive line that badly need to be fortified. They've questions that receiver. They need a high impact edge rusher. So it's Eric Dacosta has his hands full this offseason.

[Robert Mays]

I will be so interested in what their free agent shopping looks like.

[Paul Danner Jr.]

Yeah.

[Robert Mays]

Because I think beyond those there are certain spots and this is going to be a theme as we talk about all these teams that have needs at this position. Hloh Gilman and Adarius Washington are hitting free agency. We know this is a team that you want two capable starters at safety so you can use Kyle Hamilton the way that you want to. This is a free agent group where you can pay 7, $8 million a year for a starting safety and find one. I assume they might be in that market. But other than that, you look at some of the other guys available like and the price they'd have to pay to get them. It's out of character for what the Baltimore Ravens normally are. But if you can get Lamar's number down in a big way and you have some money to throw around. This is actually the team where I look at a guy like Jalen Phillips and I'm like, you know what that you could talk me into that pretty quickly.

[Jeff Zerieback]

Yeah, I think, you know, we had this discussion last year. I remember distinctively. Is this the off season? They need to take a big swing. They need to go out and get themselves an edge rusher that can change a game. That can, you know, you want to stop blowing leads, get an edge rusher that's going to get you off the field late in the fourth quarter. You want to create more turnovers when you get to to the playoffs. They don't create turnovers when they get to the playoffs. That's part of the issue. They turn the ball over. They don't create. You get a guy that can strip, sack and get to the quarterback and do all that. They just, They've had some okay pass rushers. I think Mike Crean will eventually be good, but you need. That's him.

[Robert Mays]

Right now you have a bunch of guys hitting free agency. So even beyond, you can still be mildly optimistic about Mike Green's development and still come to the conclusion of we need to be aggressive.

[Jeff Zerieback]

Yeah, exactly. And if Matabike doesn't come back and is not able to play, you know, Travis Jones is a nice piece, but you need two other guys there. So, yeah, it's. There's a real lot, a lot of uncertainty. And, you know, the DaCosta angle is interesting to me because he's a very celebrated general manager. He's done a very good job in a lot of ways. I do not think he had a good off season last year. You know, John Harbaugh's one of his best friends. I think this has really hit him hard just having to let go of Jon and, you know, now it's kind of on Eric. John shielded a lot in this organization over the years where he took a lot of arrows that other people didn't take. So I could see a very motivated Eric DaCosta saying, you know what, I know how we do things here. I know how I've always do things. We need to change it up a little, get a little more aggressive on different fronts. Maybe they go out and make a trade for a legit piece here and willing to give up some draft capital. Maybe that's signing one of the top edge rushers like Jaylen Phillips that's going

[Paul Danner Jr.]

to be available in free agency.

[Jeff Zerieback]

But you'd say all that and they need to get their finances in order. They need to create a little more flexibility to do some things.

[Robert Mays]

Looking at their picks, I'm always curious what picks will be in the couch cushions for the Baltimore Ravens. We have four fifth round picks for the Ravens this year. It's just every single year. It's hilarious and like, you open it up like a present, you're just wondering, wondering what's in there. So the Ravens right now, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. They have 11 picks, which is actually on the low end for them, which is that. That's the funny part about this. And so they'll do the same things they typically do in when it comes to the draft, but they do have some pieces to throw around if they did want to make a trade. I think that's kind of the point here. So the defensive line, Matabk becomes the biggest swing piece because if he comes back, that's the biggest piece that you can.

[Jeff Zerieback]

That's one of the biggest things they could do in the entire off season. It would be the biggest addition.

[Robert Mays]

A healthy Matabe he comes in and if he can be even close to the player he used to be. What that does to your interior pass rush obviously elevates the entire unit if they go out and get an edge rusher. I agree with you in the fact that it seems like this might be the time to get a little bit aggressive with it. Like Odafa always a free agent. Like there are guys that of there are guys available that can give you juices pass rushers. So trying to go out and get that piece in the market, I think that makes sense. Again, a starting caliber safety. That may be a little bit more of a modest add. That makes sense. But then you go to the offensive side. There are still needs on the offensive side like you right now. I think you can make a very serious argument that they probably need to address all three interior starting offensive line spots in some way with follow Lele and Linderbaum hitting free agency.

[Jeff Zerieback]

I would agree with that 100%. Now you, they do like Emory Jones, their third round pick last year. But you, you, you can't leave it to a young player who basically had a red shirt year last year.

[Robert Mays]

If that's one of. If that, if that's solution at one of the guard spots, fine. But that still leaves two other spots where litter bomb. Obviously that's the biggest question. But do you feel good about Andrew Voorhees after the last way the last couple years went? I mean I think that's up for discussion.

[Jeff Zerieback]

Yeah, they, yeah, they. And then you know swing tackle is a huge position in Baltimore when Ronnie Stanley's hurt a lot like you need another starting tackle. So. And that's absolutely right because you look at different things and you know, yeah, you Marlon Humphrey legitimate cut Cannon. Well what do you do at cornerback? Who's starting opposite Nate Wiggins, who's your number three cornerback. And then you open, you can't keep opening these holes. Like at some point you need to figure something out with the guys you have because you already have enough holes to fill and yeah, absolutely. Two starting offensive linemen interior and you know, we'll see about the Linderbaum situation. But I think there seems to be a groundswell among the fans of Let him go, like, that's too much for center. We have too many needs. But that's daunting to find three starting interior offensive linemen in the off season. Now, people say the Bears did it, but there's different levels to what they need, how much they can spend, how you go about doing this. And look, I just think you kind of, yeah, you're going to have to overpay Linderbaum, but it's one of those things where what's the alternative? The alternative isn't pretty when you have to fill three starting interior spots in front of Lamar Jackson.

[Robert Mays]

I want to walk through just the process with Linderbaum with you because obviously they discuss comes out this week, says we've offered him a market setting contract. Okay, so whatever that means, it doesn't really matter the details. But they are willing to go to an aggressive place to bring him back, reportedly. But if that's the case, why did it take this long for them to give him or offer him that sort of deal? Like the fact that we're on the eve of free agency and these are kind of the dynamics we're playing with. Something about it just feels a little bit off. Like, why weren't they more motivated to get this done earlier if they saw him as that type of player?

[Jeff Zerieback]

Well, a couple things. Well, one, the comments from Dacosta and anybody who's followed the Ravens like you have, obviously, and know how Eric does business. For him to put that on the street when he won't even confirm offers ever, certainly tells you there's probably some frustration right now and how those negotiations are going to be. And he wants to.

[Robert Mays]

Maybe that's the story. Right? It takes two sides. Yes.

[Jeff Zerieback]

But like could you blame Neal Cornridge, Linderbaum's agent for, you know, we know these talks happen this week, for shopping them around, seeing what's out there and saying, okay, we could get this Ravens, what are you going to give us? But so I think it's clear that the engagement between both sides, there hasn't been a lot of cooperation. There hasn't been a lot of aggressiveness here to get a deal done. And Linderbaum's side is pretty content where he is. The other thing which I found interesting, Robert, you know, they declined his fifth year option. Right?

[Robert Mays]

Well, that's, that's the interesting part about this set of negotiations overall is that for a lot of players, if you were willing to offer a market setting contract to a player, the answer would be if you can't figure Something out. You just tag a guy. Yeah, but because we're in a spot with the offensive line franchise tag and some of the. Just the quirks around how you'd have to pay a center in that situation, that's how you arrive here.

[Jeff Zerieback]

Yeah. And, and there's reasons why they declined the fifth year option. And then none of them have anything to do with them not wanting to have Tyler Linderum. One was, the number was so ridiculously high because of how centers are grouped with tackles. The other was, if you recall like two summers ago, Linderbaum had the neck issue, missed most of training camp with the neck issue. So I don't think that's an everyday issue they're worried about. But we know neck and the Ravens organization has not been a good story. So if they picked up the fifth year option, it would have been guaranteed for this year. So if he went out last year and had a recurrence of that issue and had a major deal, he would have already been guaranteed this year. So I think they kind of were protecting themselves by not picking that up. Where if something happened with that situation and there was a recurrence of it, they weren't on the hook for it for this coming year, but now they got to deal with it. And you know, he's, he's going to get paid. He's going to get paid well over $20 million, whether it's by them or somebody else. And you know, I, I could see both sides of it, but you better have a plan to replace him, you know, and that plan can't be using one of those day three picks to try to find a plug and play guy.

[Robert Mays]

It's a really interesting conversation about resource allocation and how much you're willing to stretch yourself at one position specifically. And let's say, let's just play this out hypothetically. Let's say he moves on. He gets. What is the high. What is the biggest contract for a center in the NFL right now?

[Jeff Zerieback]

18 million for green Humphrey.

[Robert Mays]

So let's say it ends up becoming 20 million for Tyler Linderbaum because you have four to five teams in the mix here, which wouldn't surprise me whatsoever. You got teams like the Raiders who need a starting center, Chargers that have a ton of money to throw around. That's what drives the number up. Let's say it ends up settling somewhere around $20 million. There are other guys in free agency just throwing out hypothetical names, Cade Mays, people like that, where you could potentially pay 55% of that for starting caliber center and so that's the calculus of your Eric Dacosta that you have to

[Jeff Zerieback]

play with a little bit here. Yep, yep. And I'm sure those conversations will be had in this week. Who else we could get? And when you need a guy on his. On the center's right and the center's left, that adds to it. Like how many guy.

[Robert Mays]

How many realist starters for that? 20 million.

[Paul Danner Jr.]

Exactly.

[Jeff Zerieback]

Yeah, like, how many guys can we get for this? And. And who could some of these guys on the radar? And look, the quarterbacks had a heavy role in everything they've done, and he's pretty close to Tyler Linderbaum. And you wonder how much Lamar Jackson's opinion, look, we can't let this guy leave. And you wonder how that. How that opinion adds to the situation. It's a very tough call, you know, but you just know the Ravens and how they do business. Rarely do they let guys like Tyler Linderbaum walk out of the. The building without a significant fight. Sometimes they just throw up their hands in the air and say, look, we can't afford the guy. We know he's a great player, we love him, but go get your money because we'll take the comp pick because we can't afford them. But, man, given their situation with where they are in the interior offensive line, that would be a tough one just to let walk out of the building.

[Robert Mays]

So this. This, like, feeling that we're talking about here, with increased urgency, they need to spend a little bit more. Do you think that's something that we're projecting onto them? Or as you've talked to people and gotten a sense of where they are, do you think that's the feeling they have right now?

[Jeff Zerieback]

I think there's a feeling that they clearly need to be more aggressive this offseason. You got a fan base.

[Paul Danner Jr.]

I'm into that.

[Jeff Zerieback]

Yeah, you got a fan base that's really frustrated. You're going to want to hit the ground running with Jesse Minter and give him every opportunity to succeed immediately. You know, and I just as. And I think you got a motivated Eric Dacosta, who knows, it's kind of. It's kind of on him now. Not that it wasn't before, but, you know, all eyes are pointed at him now. And you got the quarterback situation. So, yeah, I expect them to be more aggressive than what we're used to. And that aggression comes in different ways. Right. It doesn't necessarily mean throwing money at the top free agents, but I think they're going to have to do that they're going to have to make a couple forays onto the free agent market because, you know they don't like going to the draft with major holes. Yeah, you know, they want to be able to sit at 14 and not worry about position, just say, okay, we're going to pick the best guy. You can't do that when unless you start filling some of these holes before the draft.

[Robert Mays]

Yeah, it's it's a different sort of feeling for the Baltimore Ravens offseason, and I will be paying a lot more attention to what the Ravens are going to do on the first couple days of free agency than I would in a typical year, I would say. Jeff Zack, always great to chat with you, sir. Sincerely appreciate the time. We'll do it again very soon.

[Jeff Zerieback]

Enjoy it, Robert. Thank you.

[Robert Mays]

All right, before we talk to Zach Berman about the Eagles, we're going to take one more quick break.

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[Robert Mays]

Joining us now, it is one of our wonderful Eagles writers here at the Athletic, Zach Berman. How you doing, man?

[Zach Berman]

Doing great. Thanks for having me.

[Robert Mays]

We could start this conversation at a bunch of different places. Here's where I want to start it. From the outside looking in. Because since the last, the last time you and I talked, it was about speculation about who the offensive coordinator would be. We talked a lot about Sean Manion and that's why I didn't feel like, I felt like the conversation held up even though he got hired two hours after he stops talking. Since that happened, a million things have taken place with the Philadelphia Eagles from the outside looking in. If I'm somebody who doesn't understand all of the context and nuance around this and I watch Jeff Stoutland retire, is that the right phrase?

[Zach Berman]

I would not say okay, so I would say leave.

[Robert Mays]

If I watch Jeff Stoutland leave.

[Zach Berman]

Yes.

[Robert Mays]

If I see the speculation about is Landon Dickerson going to play in 2026, is Lane Johnson going to play in 2026? It feels to me like there's just a little bit of stuff smoke about what is going on in that building and just how tenuous things feel there. Do you think that is a fair representation? And I want, I want you to tell me how I should feel about everything that's happened in, at the NovaCare Complex in the last three to four weeks.

[Zach Berman]

Yeah, it's, it's a fair question. I think I would separate those two things. Like the, I think the Jeff Stoutland question and all that goes around with it has more to do with the changes in the coaches. They have change in the offense. I think the Lane Johnson, Landon Dickerson speculation before, you know, it was determined they would come back. Was that, was that, that's more health related, right? That's, that's kind of just players who play a physical position beat up at the end of the year. So I would separate those, those two things. But I think the first one, the coaching staff changes, the scheme changes, some of the philosophical changes, I think that's real and it has a major effect because Jeff Stoutland, I've covered the team, this will be my 15th year. He's the best assistant coach I've seen.

[Robert Mays]

I'm looking at this team and I think that you listen to Howie Roseman talk yesterday and you know, the idea of trading AJ Brown and you know, do we really want to be in the business of trading away good players? And I think there are two different ways that I'm Looking at the situation that Eagles are currently in one one, is this another off season where you tinker with some members of the coaching staff, you add a couple new pieces and you thrust this team right back into contention? Or is this an off season where it feels like this is a group playing out the string and I don't know where between those two places I land right now.

[Zach Berman]

Yeah, it's a good point because a lot of it depends on what happens with aj. I do think there's a window with this offensive core and part of this is if you just follow the money. The Eagles have had all these defensive players on rookie contracts. Those guys are going to have to start getting paid in the next one to 15 months, let's say. Right? And so that's going to that naturally, all these $20 million a year players that they have on offense, whether it's the offensive line, wide receiver, like that's going to start to change. And so there is going to be an influx of young cost controlled offensive talent. That said, that young cost controlled offensive talent is not going to be what helps them win a Super bowl next year, if you know, and that's obviously their goal. So there's a window with this offensive core that has been to two Super Bowls, that's won one. But a lot of that depends on what happens with A.J. brown and if A.J. brown forces the issue because there's no, I don't think there's a good argument for trading AJ Brown from a football perspective, but if you're like, look, the toothpaste can't go back in the tube. AJ has, he's been on record stating he wants to be the best receiver in the league. If he doesn't feel that can be accomplished here, based on scheme, based on personnel, however you want to frame it, then you move on, get compensation. I don't think they would willingly do it. I think it's more if the issue gets forced on them and I think there's a real chance that could happen. And if AJ's not on the team, he's such a special player that the offensive dynamics change and then it goes into you're definitely not playing out the string, then you're tinkering for sure.

[Robert Mays]

The A.J. brown question. And just the problem for me is if I'm looking at it and just the mechanics of dealing him in the money. I'm sure you've looked at this. Can you just talk me through just the practical reality of what it would mean if they were to trade him? Like how could they afford to do that with the dead money that they would incur as I'm looking at it, just like from the outsider's perspective.

[Zach Berman]

Yes. So now if they were to trade him post June 1st.

[Robert Mays]

Yes, that's.

[Zach Berman]

Yes. But even pre June 1st. One thing I know about the Eagles is they're not scared of dead money. A lot of it's how they structure contracts with the void years to begin with. They're actually much more interested in potential cash savings. So they really separate the cap and the cash so they can take something on the chin cap wise, sometimes structure new contracts and such that they have low cap numbers but have cash to spend. And if they can, if they were to trade AJ it would save a significant amount of cash that can then be redistributed for, let's say in theory, a Jalen Carter contract extension, a Jordan Davis contract extension, eventual Cooper De Jean and Quinon Mitchell contract extensions, or even short term a Jalen Phillips contract. Although you know, I mean that's independent A.J. brown. But I think they can absorb a cap hit. It could limit them in some other areas, but you know, they have some real smart people in that building. Bryce Johnston is one who really kind of puts the cap numbers together and there are opportunities there that I don't think it would preclude them from putting the roster that they want together. And they're actually cash savings. I think it's more. It's not a financial question, a football question. How do you have the offense you need without AJ Brown looking at their

[Robert Mays]

cap is just hilarious every single time I open it. So the only players right now on the Philadelphia Eagles who don't have a base salary under like 1.3 or $1.4 million are all the guys on rookie contracts. So Jordan Davis, Morrow, Jomo, Tyler, Steen. No Smith. Or Michael Carter who was not an Eagle when he signed that contract. I assume he's going to be a cap casualty.

[Zach Berman]

Yes, exactly.

[Robert Mays]

At some point in the next spring. So essentially every single player on the Eagles other than the rookie contract players have base salaries of $1.3 million or less.

[Zach Berman]

Yes. But then the fascinating. I'm glad you brought this up. This is actually a topic that really interests me and I'm writing about it on the Athletic this week is the Eagles haven't. It's a bad roster if you believe in the middle class. Their roster strategy is stars and then rookie contracts and one year lottery ticket players because you pointed out the base salary and you're correct about that. But then if you look at the average annual salary they have. They went into last season with as many 20 million dollar a year players as anyone in the league. They only had one guy making between 7 and 15 million dollars going into the year. They don't do the middle class, but then I think they had eight or nine players making above 17 million. And that's, you know, I've spoken to Howie Roseman about this and his whole point is difference making players. You pay for difference making players and then you, you, you have to make tough decisions elsewhere. But so let's, let's kind of look at, at, at their free agents in conjunction with this conversation. They have four big free agents. Jalen Phillips, Dallas Goddard, Reed Blankenship, Nicole Dean. If you just look at it from like a financial perspective, Reed Blankenship is probably, let's say like a $10 million a year player. That's not the type of market that the Eagles tend to shop in. Jalen Phillips is probably a $25 million a year player. That's the market the Eagle shop. So they're more apt to keep Jalen Phillips and let the other three go than they would be to sign three middle class players. From my perspective.

[Robert Mays]

Yeah, that makes sense. And I think that that's the Zach Bond comparison is the one you would make with the Jalen Phillips thing where when Zach Bond has a season that he has, he suddenly becomes one of those players and that's why he gets retained. In your estimation, do you think that Jalen Phillip Phillips does come back?

[Zach Berman]

I think they're going to try like crazy to do it, I think. And knowing Howie, he'll have a walk away number. So there's a. But I think that's a premium player at a premium position. You know, the fit. The interesting thing about Jalen Phillips is because they traded for him, that's typically the type of guy who they would have tried to sign to an extension early. Right. So if he was Jalen Carter or he was Jordan Davis, like you're, you're trying to get that deal done before he's a contract year. Instead they, they, they trade for him halfway through his, his final season. But he was, and I don't need to tell you he was terrific. He's what Vic Fangio looks for on the edge. And I think he is the type of player they would pay. But this is a bad free agency class and he is, I mean Daniel Popper did outstanding rankings as we know.

[Robert Mays]

He's a bad free agency class for the Eagles. Right. Like it's those Are the, they're not the types of players the Eagles are going to be signed. It's a free agency class for full of Reed Blankenships. Sure.

[Zach Berman]

Exactly. Well said. And so like, you know, Jalen Phillips is the number three player on Daniel Popper's board. If he's, if, if you're looking at 27 million, that might be too rich for the Eagles. And I think like last year the Eagles really liked Milton Williams. They knew they had no shot of signing Milton Williams. Now it's a different situation because they had D tackles in the building already. But there will be a number that might be too high for Jalen Phillips and then they need to pivot other

[Robert Mays]

than edge and potentially bringing Jayden Phillips back. You said D tackle is a position where they have multiple guys they feel good about. Obviously you draft John Campbell in the first round last year. That allows you to move on from the Kobe Dean safety in corner. Feels like those are two spots where something probably needs to happen and they probably need to address those. How do you think those second safety and corner spots get addressed this offseason?

[Zach Berman]

It's a great question because that's one where they've tried to plug some players in the draft and it hasn't quite worked the way they wanted to. You know, they, they, they used a third round pick to trade up for Keely Ringo. They traded for Jacorian Bennett. Last year. They drafted Mack mcwilliams and like you're hoping one of these guys would emerge into a starter opposite Quinon Mitchell and with Cooper DeJean and so I should start with this. They feel like they have two elite cornerbacks and they feel like Cooper DeJean can play every position in the secondary. And so. But I spoke to Cooper about this. He wants to play the slot. He thinks that's where it's the best

[Robert Mays]

solution when you have a guy that's a lead in that position. One, just streamlining what they're doing I think makes them better in that role. And two, we've just seen over the last couple years how valuable it is to have an elite player in that position specifically.

[Zach Berman]

You're absolutely right. So then who's that corner on the outside opposite of Quinon Mitchell last year was Adore Jackson. I don't think that was the desired outcome going into the the year. I think they would have loved a Keely Ringo.

[Robert Mays]

On the problem from day one, like literally the first game of the season, we realized how much of an issue it was going to be.

[Zach Berman]

And so Adori improved over the year, but I, I don't think they're going to keep Adore or I think that's the type of thing where you probably look for this year's Adore, which is like a, a veteran on a one year deal and he's competing in, in camp and you know, you try to figure it out that way. The second safety spot be to going is harder because Reed Blankenship on paper is the type of guy you would want to keep. I mean he's a captain of the team, homegrown player, went from undrafted rookie to defensive captain. Started for them in for super bowl champs. But I don't see them paying 10, 11 million dollars for Reed Blankenship. So how do you solve that spot next to Drew Macuba? It could be a rookie. I mean they were hoping Sidney Brown would develop. That hasn't really happened. So I think that's also where Hall. Howie knows that you can't have blue chip talent at every spot. And even if you look at the super bowl rosters this year, like you know the safeties, they had some weaknesses. You look at the Patriots, you know that they were getting by with some

[Robert Mays]

league average one year deals for Jalen Hawkins, fourth round pick for Craig Woodson. Even if you look at the Seahawks like it's the guys that they have. Kobe Bryant was a mid round pick. Why? Who's the other Seahawks safety that I'm blanking on right now? Julian Love. Yeah, so it's, it's. There are guys that you're not paying a ton of money and that not even just the makeup of the best teams in the best defenses in the NFL, but if you look at it, the Eagles in terms of how they view positional value, it has been somewhat of a moving target based on how the league has changed. Right. Like the idea that the Eagles would sign Saquon Barkley to that contract eight years ago would have seemed shocking. The idea that the Eagles would draft Jihad Campbell in the first round would have seemed shocking. But Drew McCuba is the highest drafted safety. The Eagles have had some since when Malcolm Jenkins.

[Zach Berman]

Well, they, they signed Jenkins.

[Robert Mays]

That's right.

[Zach Berman]

Yeah. So. So since Jaquan Jarrett, I would. Or Nate. Yes, since the, since Jaquan Jarrett.

[Robert Mays]

Yeah. It's been a long time. Like even for a sec. Even a second round pick at safety for the Eagles is kind of out of character. So I would not be surprised if they kind of. All right, let's take a couple low cost dice rolls and see if one works out. The other question that I'M really interested in how he said something when Brooks Gamina wrote about it yesterday and just kind of recapping what how he said at the combine, he said something that

[Zach Berman]

I, I don't know if a lot

[Robert Mays]

of other people would pick up on, but for me it's like my spidey sense started tingling. He was talking about the types of tight ends usually seeks out and he was saying that again talking about and I think how he deserves a lot of credit for this where over time he has not been dogmatic and how he sees certain types of players and what their value is. And so he was talking yesterday about how when you look at the types of tight ends he has sought out for the roster, it has often been pass catching type guys.

[Zach Berman]

Exactly.

[Robert Mays]

You're calculating terror is your Kylon Grantz's. Even Jer Dallas Goddard is a more well rounded player than this. But especially the depth at tight end blocking tight end has not been a role on this team. And so him being as kind of forceful and transparent as he was about that yesterday, I think that's going to be a skill set they seek out. And it brings me to a question of now that we have Sean Manning in the building and we assume the offense will stray a little bit further from the model we've got seen under Nick Sirianni for the last five years, how do you think that impacts personnel decisions and maybe new types of guys they seek out that the Eagles traditionally haven't on that side of the ball?

[Zach Berman]

Yeah, I'm, I'm curious about this because they, they clearly want to go to this Shanahan McVeigh style. You know, you're going to see more under center, you're going to see more play action, you're going to see more wide zone running. And you know, I spoke to Nick Sirianni extensively last week about this and I should say we, the Philly media did. And yet this is a change. Like this is not going to be the offense you've seen in the past. But I don't think Howie can totally adjust the player acquisition part of it because you don't know what this is going to look like in 2026. Yes, I'm sorry, 2027, you still need to just get really good players and then coach know what to figure it out. But to your point, Howie's view of the tight end position has evolved and I think within that there are roles that will be adjusted. The fascinating thing is the offensive line because Howie and Jeff Stoutland, you know, for the past 13 years. If you and I were talking at the combine, I could tell you what a Jeff Stoutland offensive lineman is going to be, right? And you can see like the certain critical factors that player has. There's a lot of traits that. Because you're kind of saying if you take a player with traits, he can develop them. You know, Jeff Stalin has that track record of development and Eagles have had these big physical offensive linemen. I mean, they're the first guys off the bus that you want to see. Whether you're talking about, you know, Jordan Mylata, Landon Dickerson, you know, obviously Lane Johnson at right tackle. I mean, look what he did with Makai Becton at right guard. You know, so it's, it's a little different than I think you're, you're. You're going to look for more agility, more speed, it's weird to say speed, but, but more agility and athleticism at, at, at some of those offensive line spots in, in this system. But I can't imagine how he deviating from the way he's evaluated offensive lineman.

[Robert Mays]

I'll be curious about that because I will say one thing. If you look at. So Mannion specifically comes from Green Bay, right? So when you look at Green Bay, their run game has been a little bit of everything over the last few years and they do have some guys on the lighter side, but a guy like Aaron Banks is not a small offensive lineman. And so, and then if you even extend that a little bit further, you know, the, the Vikings have been a decent amount of zone run when Manion was there. But then you look at, you can expand it a little bit further. I think the Rams are a really good example of this where even if the DNA of the offense comes from that place. When the race Rams got a lot bigger along the offensive line, their run approach changed. It wasn't as much zone, it was a lot more gap scheme stuff as the offensive line got bigger. And so I wonder because that group has a little bit more size, where do they land in between that like gap heavy world that the Rams have been in and the zone heavy world that these guys traditionally come from?

[Zach Berman]

Well said. And I think when, when this group's healthy, and that's a big question because they were really banged up last year. But there's, there shouldn't be a coach in the league who wouldn't want these five as your offensive line. Like this is, this is a Super bowl caliber offensive line so you can make it work. And I think these guys are good enough and Like Lane Johnson can play in any offense.

[Robert Mays]

Right.

[Zach Berman]

He's incredible.

[Robert Mays]

I think most of these guys probably could.

[Zach Berman]

Exactly. Yeah. I think the one who maybe you have a little more questions about is Landon Dickerson, but I think Landon Dickerson too can playing any offense.

[Robert Mays]

Yeah, well, I was looking at it when you were talking, just because I was curious about it. So if you look back at tight end, specifically the last 15 years for the Philadelphia Eagles, they've drafted four tight ends in the last 15 years, which in and of itself is kind of a shockingly low number. But there's a couple different considerations there. One, this has been an 11 personnel team for a very long time, and so the fact that they have not prioritized that position is necessarily surprising. But even if you look at those four guys, of those four, only one of them weighed more than 240 pounds, and that was Dallas Scott. And so beyond the fact that they haven't prioritized it, the body types they've sought out, they haven't drafted a blocking tight end in a decade and a half. This might be the year where something like that happens.

[Zach Berman]

Yeah, it's a good point. And I personally think blocking tight end is, is, you know, you don't need to spend major resources on it.

[Robert Mays]

You get them in the fourth or fifth round, that's when you get those guys.

[Zach Berman]

But I, I, but assuming or if Dallas Goddard's not, not back, you need to figure out who your top tight end is and you, you ideally would, would want a complete tight end. And Dallas earlier on, you know, I, I don't think he was the best run blocker this year, but he's been a good blocker.

[Robert Mays]

Absolutely.

[Zach Berman]

But you know, you bring up a great point about tight end because really the luxury the Eagles had is they take Zach ertz in the second round in 2013, he takes over for Brent Selleck, who is a really good tight end. Zach Ertz is a starting tight end for them really through 2021. They take Dallas Goddard in the second round in 2018 and he's the succession plan, he takes over. And so it's, it's kind of like the offensive tackle situation for the Eagles where, you know, at left tackle they went from Tre Thomas to Jason Peters to Jordan Mylata, they went from Brent Selleck to Zach Ertz, the Dallas Goddard. The difference here is they don't have someone waiting in the wings to take over here. And so whether it's in the draft, via trade, via free agency, they're going to have to find that number one tight end because it is going to be an important role in this offense.

[Robert Mays]

This is a team that every single year they're doing something. They're replacing coordinators because they got hired to be head coaches. They're replacing coordinators because those guys got fired. Like this is a yearly thing, every single winter and spring for the Eagles where there's going to be some level, level of turnover. And I think that each year has been a little bit different. You know, like when they, when they replaced those guys after the 2023 season with Vic Fangio and Kellen Moore, I think they're. Even if in most years where you're replacing two coordinators that were fired, there would be a level of like apprehension and concern. But I didn't feel that that year as much because of the guys that were replacing them. Right. Like when you can get Kellen Moore and Vic Fangio, there's love of stability that comes along with that. And so I wonder, as you think about this version of the team, how much like uncertainty and instability does it feel like there is right now compared to previous off seasons?

[Zach Berman]

Yeah, offensively, very much so. The reason I hesitate is. Instability is an interesting word there, I think curiosity, because with Kellen Moore, they wanted an established play caller. This year's search, they, I think Nick started the search looking for an established play caller, Mike McDaniel. I talked about the last time I was on with you, Mike McDaniel and Brian Dabel as the search evolved and you know, Nick said he interviewed 17 candidates. They had seven in for four second interviews. He softened that prerequisite, if you will, and it really became. There was conviction that he saw from Sean Manion there. But it's completely unknown to have a 33 year old offense coordinator who hasn't called plays. He's coached in the NFL for two

[Robert Mays]

years and now he's been a position coach, nothing else.

[Zach Berman]

And now he's, he's, you're, you're taking, I think Jalen is now, I mean he's a Super bowl winning quarterback, but he's going to be asked to do things differently than he's done in the past. I mean this is going to be a different offense. You have an offensive lineman of blue chip players. You have, we'll see what happens with AJ but two elite wide receivers, you have one of the best running backs of the past decade and you're taking these guys and you're saying, all right, let's, let's run a different scheme. It could be re. Energizing but it could fall flat, right? This is, I think it's a little different than Kellen Moore when you had a sense of what it was going to look like with Kellen Moore.

[Robert Mays]

Yet another year where it feels like the range of outcomes associated with the Philadelphia Eagles is as wide as you can possibly imagine. Zach Berman, always great to see you my friend. Always great to chat with you. Appreciate the time. We'll do it again very soon.

[Zach Berman]

Look forward to it. Thank you.

[Robert Mays]

All right, guys, that's all we got for today. Thank you so much to Zach. Thank you so much to Paul, thank you to Jeff Zek. Really enjoyed those three conversations. Hope you guys did as well. We will be back tomorrow. We'll get the game back together. Me, Derek, Dave Breaking down the week that was at the 2026 NFL Combine. Be our last show of the week. Monday we will have a combine recap coming your way with Dave and Dane. Who I mean Dane is. You should see Dane this week. He's just a pig in shit like that. No, no one has ever been happier than how how Dane Brugler is when he is at the Combine. I got to have dinner with him last night, which was shocking that he actually had the time to swing it, but very enjoyable on that front. Great week. Really enjoyed talking to all the writers. Really appreciate everybody who took the time to jump on with us. For now, that's all we got. Appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you very soon.

[Zach Berman]

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[Robert Mays]

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[Paul Danner Jr.]

Oh actually they will have to get up and open the door.

[Zach Berman]

Oh right.

[Robert Mays]

Delivery available for select devices [e-mail] terms apply.

[Jeff Zerieback]

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[Robert Mays]

That's why T Mobile and US Cellular are joining forces. Switch to T Mobile and save up to 20% versus Verizon by getting built in benefits they leave out.

[Paul Danner Jr.]

Check the math@t mobile.com switch and now

[Robert Mays]

T mobile is in US cellular stores. Savings versus Comparable Verizon plans plus the

[Paul Danner Jr.]

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[Robert Mays]

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[Paul Danner Jr.]

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[Robert Mays]

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