← The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL
The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL
Which NFL division has the best quarterbacks in 2026?
00:48:34
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- [00:00]
Robert Mayes
Right now, you're probably listening to this podcast on a wireless network. The same wireless network you swipe, scroll and hopefully download the latest episode of the Athletic Football show on. But if you're a first responder, you shouldn't have to compete with myvoice to get a clear signal. That's why there's FirstNet, a clear wireless lane built with and for first responders. So in an emergency, first responders get there first because a network that's not just for anyone helps everyone. To learn more, go to firstnet.com or visit an AT&T store for details.
- [00:33]
Katie
Are you really buying a car online on Autotrader right now? Really? I can get super specific with dealer listings and see cars based on my budget. You can really have it delivered or pick it up.
- [00:42]
Child
Mommy's walking.
- [00:43]
Derek
I think kid is walking up the slide.
- [00:45]
Katie
Really?
- [00:45]
Robert Mayes
Autotrader, buy your car online.
- [00:47]
Child
Really?
- [00:48]
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- [01:14]
Robert Mayes
Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mayes. It's another mailbag Monday here on the Athletic Football show feed. We are deep into the off season now and the questions reflect that and I mean that in a very positive way. We had a couple really fun ones to chew on as part of this, like picking the best position groups from each division, which we spent a long time doing. That was a great question, but a lot of good ones. Thank you to everyone who spent the time to send in the questions. We do this in part because the quality of the questions is so good every single week. So let's get to it with me, Dave, Derek, and our producer, Katie. Right now, It's another mailbag Monday here on the Athletic Football Show. Very excited to get back to these. We've got a really good collection of questions. Sincerely appreciate everyone who spent who spent the time to send them in. Bell is out today, so Katie, our producer, is going to be reading the questions. I honestly think think you have the biggest shoes to fill of anybody that could be missing on this show right now just because of the dulcet tones that Bell brings to this process every week.
- [02:25]
Katie
I know. I thought about doing an impression of his voice, but I really don't think that would go well. So we're just.
- [02:29]
Robert Mayes
I kind of. I kind of wish you would. I would kind of like to see what that sounds like.
- [02:32]
Katie
No, it's not going to go well.
- [02:35]
Robert Mayes
Got some good ones today. We are deep in the off season now and some of these questions reflect that. I mean that as a compliment. These are like some deep off season questions. There are some really fun ones in here that some like actually spent took a lot of time and some prep and some real thinking and I really am excited to get to a couple of those. But let's kick this off. Katie, what's our first one?
- [02:54]
Katie
First one is from Discord. Single T says pure off season question. What players from the pre HGTV era of football would you most enjoy having today's level of access of film and analytics to study? What does a Barry Sanders run from the ALL22 with the AI trail line and advanced stats look like? What does a Reggie White Bull rush look like from the end zone cam? Things like that. Robert, go ahead and take this one.
- [03:18]
Robert Mayes
I'll throw out two. And they're kind of connected. My answer to this is pretty consistently like Dan Marino, like I would love to go back and watch like 80s Dan Marino from the All 22 and see what it actually looked like. And one of the game I would really love to watch. And this kind of takes me into the second part of the thing is in 85 when Dan Marino was the only quarterback who could beat the 85 Bears. I would also love to go back, especially on the heels of what the Seahawks were last year and the fact that defense is really back in the NFL and we have these really, really good defenses. What did the great defenses of previous eras feel like? Like when you watch the Texans and you watch the Seahawks on all 22 now and you get a sense for, I don't know, kind of like the visceral elements of what it's like to watch a unit like that did other defenses from other eras that they feel similar to that when you watch them, then they feel different. So going back and watching like great defenses and getting a sense of that and then also just getting back and going to watch what Dan Marino was in the 80s. Like those are my two answers.
- [04:17]
Derek
That 85 Bears game, obviously it's not in HD, but that game is on YouTube for like people who have not seen it. Like you can find the full game and it's I watch it like once a year. That game is amazing.
- [04:27]
Dave
I feel like Dan Marino is a consistent through line for questions like These, which completely makes sense. I've said it before when we've answered questions like this, I'm always in these hypotheticals going to go back and try to get my hands around old, old Titans of the league. Just guys that played in an era where anything more. Okay, I'm not going all the way back to Jim Thorpe this time.
- [04:53]
Derek
No, no, no.
- [04:53]
Robert Mayes
I thought you, I thought you were. I thought you literally meant old Titans. It's just like George, I really gotta go back and watch Kyle Vanden Bosch. Like that's really what I'm into here.
- [05:03]
Dave
Titans of the game, not Tennessee Titans. No, I mean Tennessee Titans haven't even been around that long. No, I specifically would love to go back and watch a guy like Deacon Jones. He, he's responsible for the term Sack. He had three different 20 plus sack seasons during the course of his career. I just love to see what that looks like. I mean we, we know the name and you've probably seen grainy highlights at one point or another during your life. But I'd love to see how dominant a guy like that looked. Like, you know, how different does he look against that caliber of NFL Night Train lanes. Another one one of the greatest DBs of all time. He had a 14 pick season and a 10 pick season in pretty quick succession during his career. Obviously this was in like the 50s, so I expect you're going against bricklayers and guys who have day jobs and shit like that. But just what does that level of athleticism look like and how you know somebody that was that dominant like a Deacon Jones, like how similar to a modern NFL player does a guy who's good look, I would love to, to be able to watch stuff like that.
- [06:18]
Robert Mayes
That, that brings me to just like the, the interception totals. It's just like I would love to get my hands on like some mid 2000s Ravens, all 22 and just like watch what the game was like from Ed Reed's perspective. Like when he. So by the time my first year watching like all 22 of NFL games was 2012, I want to say which this is a whole different rabbit hole. But the, the NFL game pass like interface in 2012 was phenomenal. Like watching all 22 through the NFL's product was actually very easy and very good. And so that year like was the first year I think I had access to it because it was the first year I was doing football full time and that was the last. He was 34 years old at that point. So never while I was doing this job was Ed Reed like the player he was at his peak 2010, he had eight picks and was first team all pro. I was not watching football from that angle in 2010. So that's another one I would really like.
- [07:09]
Derek
The the game player really was actually good then. It's better now that it's NFL Pro. But there was like a 10 year stretch there where it somehow got worse because I started in 2013. Like the year after it. Like it was pretty good back then
- [07:19]
Robert Mayes
and the filters were incredible back then. Like you get down distance situation like I it was very good and very granular. But that again it was like that was in 2012. And so a couple years before that I wasn't seeing what I wanted to the last thing I'll say about this, and I probably shouldn't say this but I'm going to anyway. I this idea of going back and watching small players doing some stuff with it. I'm we're circling it a little bit. We'll, we'll see if we can try to do something that is involves this line of thinking at some point this off season. Cause I think it would be very fun. So I'll just, I'll just say that and leave it there.
- [07:55]
Dave
Hell of a tease Katie.
- [07:58]
Katie
What's the next one Babbling Bill on Discord hey task crew. I've been thinking about how we categorize o line prospects. We often label guys as either dominant run blockers who need pass pro work or polished pass protectors who lack a run blocking punch. In a league that is more pass heavy than ever, why does it feel like the NFL still value, still values the Mahler run blocker as the higher end prospect? Is it a belief that you can't teach the size and violence required to move bodies, whereas pass protection is a technical curriculum you can coach up if you had to choose between a prospect who is elite in one and mediocre in the other, which are teams actually prioritizing in 2026? Is it the road grader still the still the gold standard because they provide a physical floor slash anchor that finesse players lack? Or are we just collectively addicted to the highlights of linemen burying people? Derek, let's toss this one to you.
- [08:50]
Derek
I think I'll start with like what our team's doing and I think it like genuinely just depends on the team. Like Paris Johnson was a prospect who came out where it was like he's a phenomenal pass protector. Same thing I think with Olufashanu. But it was like what are you really going to get out of him physically in the run game. And sometimes that's what teams are targeting. I think sometimes you get the other end where like Arman member was a good pass protector, but you were drafting him because he was an absolute demon in the run game. And like, I think Kelvin Banks was a little bit of that. Like Monroe Freeling, I think this year, like physically is a guy who like you draft him because of what he can do in the run game. And so I think that part kind of just depends on, on the team a little bit. I do think this actually got me thinking a little bit because I do kind of subscribe to the general wisdom that like violence and then even strength after a certain age is kind of harder to add on than it is just like, can we teach this guy where to put his hand pass pro and all that. But then I was thinking about it a little bit more because to me that's like the natural skill in the run game, so to say. But I do think with pass protection there is like a natural hand eye coordination and just feet movement coordination that like you sometimes just can't teach that to guys. And some guys do just have that natural ability. But where I ended up ultimately back at the end is like, if you are a really good run blocker in college, that does suggest to me that you are coordinated and you can track movement and you can do all of these things.
- [10:12]
Katie
You can.
- [10:12]
Derek
You just haven't done it quite as well moving backwards yet and you maybe need a little bit more teaching there. Whereas on the flip side, where it's like, if you're a great pass protector and like you know how to stay in front of guys, your technique is really good, but you just don't show this oomph in the run game. I, I just. There are not that many examples where I feel like guys learn how to be violent. Like, you kind of just are.
- [10:32]
Robert Mayes
I think explosiveness is like a, a key part to being an elite lineman. And if you're not explosive, like I, I think a couple different things. I'd put push back on the question a bit just because I don't necessarily think those are the buckets. Like, I don't think you prospects fall into one or the other. Like in, in this draft, if you had to kind of drop a player into each of those categories, probably be like Kaden Proctor and Caleb Lomu, right? Those are the two guys that you would put in something like that. And again, I don't even think that's perfect. But I think when I look at guys like, that I don't think even really captures it. I'll say this. Even in like a pass happy pass happy world, strength and power are still like a necessary part of playing offensive line. And so if you have like the strength and explosiveness to be a dominant run blocker, I do think that that potentially translates to explosiveness overall. And so I, I think that sticks out. Like, just because a guy is a refined pass protector, if he's not an explosive player, I still think that you're going to be lacking in other areas. And I also think that having like the requisite anchor to play offensive line and offensive tackle in the NFL, that's necessary. Like, you can't just be like this fleet of foot athlete. You still have to have like a requisite amount of power. And so I think that the lines between those two archetypes of players are more blurred than the question suggests.
- [11:53]
Dave
Also think I, my, my main issue with the question was I would just argue as fun as Maulers and road graders are, and, and you're right, Robert. Like, strength and explosiveness and anchor are very important. But if you're talking about a guy with a certain amount of baseline ability, the, the length and reflexes to make a guy a great pass protector, even if it's just a projection, I still think that is massively valuable. And I think NFL teams would rather take a chance on a gazelle type athlete who can wipe out angles and, and get out in space and stuff like that. I think they'll take a chance on a guy like that all day. And even if he's not as physically dominant as you might prefer. Having said that, I think people are drawn to Maulers because it's just less guesswork about the type of player that you are. And if you can see a guy finishing blocks and putting people on the ground and playing to the whistle and being an asshole, that's a hell of a lot easier than being like, okay, you weigh this much, you move like this. Why don't I see it? Like, why aren't you violent? Why aren't you more explosive? Do I have to coach that into you? Can I coach that into you? Are you wired the way that I want you to be? I mean, the, the trope is that offensive linemen are gritty, grimy guys who, you know, mix it up and play to the whistle. But not all players are wired the same. And I think if you see evidence of that on a guy's tape at, at that level, it's just less projection about who he is as a guy, once he gets into your room. And I think that that gets people excited because it's less guesswork.
- [13:34]
Robert Mayes
Armand Menboo is a good example. But, like, when. You know what, I watched him at Missouri, Derek. And just like going into last year's draft, the run blocking stuff was obviously, that was sort of some of the most tantalizing moments that you saw, but that explosiveness that showed up as a pass protector as well, like. And so I think that explosiveness overall often manifests watching people move guys off the ball in the run game. But that same pop and explosiveness often also creates a theoretical upside as a pass protector that you wouldn't have if you were a less explosive player. I think he's a good example of that.
- [14:08]
Derek
He is. And I almost think that, like, this argument that we're having is actually better suited for, like, if we're talking about third or fourth round prospects, because it's kind of like if you are a mediocre, like, truly mediocre at one or the other, you're just not going in the first round. Like, like, you're just not going to go that high in the draft. And so this probably is like a better argument for, like, what are the types of guys you want to take swings on in third and fourth round or I guess even the second round.
- [14:31]
Dave
I would argue mediocre without crazy traits that let people project you.
- [14:38]
Derek
Yes.
- [14:39]
Guest
Because.
- [14:39]
Dave
Right. You can get drafted in the first round being mediocre on tape, but if you've got crazy trades, people will. Will hand wave it away.
- [14:45]
Derek
That's correct.
- [14:46]
Robert Mayes
Yeah. Yeah. Like, I like. Jalen Guyton is a good example of this. Right. Like, Jalen Guyton, I like, it's. He wasn't great at anything, but you watch the way that he moves. Just like, yeah, we'll take that guy in the first round. I'm. I'm. I lost that. Taking that guy in the first round. Tyler Guy. That's what I meant. Yes.
- [14:59]
Dave
I just. I'm laughing because Jalen Guyton was the speed demon receiver who wound up in la.
- [15:04]
Robert Mayes
Jalen Guyton. The game I remember from Jalen Guyton is the huge touchdown he had in that Justin Herbert game against the Bucks in like, the first Justin Herbert run where we were just like, yeah, that's. That. That's the Jalen Guyton stretch that I remember the most. I. We did not. I did not anticipate mentioning Jalen Guyton on the podcast today, but Tyler Guyton is the player I was referring to. Yes. Before we move on. We're going to take our first quick break.
- [15:29]
Guest
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- [19:40]
Robert Mayes
All right, let's get to the next one.
- [19:41]
Katie
Katie, this one's from Nick W. Inspired by the who is coaching the jets and Browns next season discussion on the podcast. Who do you have your eyes on as the next hot name head coaching candidates specifically thinking about young offensive minds and play callers to pair with the promising crop of QBs. Anyone that should be on our radar. Dave, you got any names here?
- [20:03]
Dave
I mean I feel like Robert is the assistant coach whisperer, but if you're, I mean if you're talk. If you're talking about guys that are like on, on the come up on specifically on the offensive side of the ball. And ironically some of them aren't even play callers because so many heart. Yeah, that's the issue.
- [20:21]
Derek
Right, Right.
- [20:22]
Dave
Exactly. So I mean like Nate Shieldhouse for the Rams. I don't think if, if you listen to this show, you don't need a big primer on Nate Shieldhouse moving into the offensive coordinator job for the Rams now that Michael Floor is off to Arizona. Clayton Adams in Dallas, also not a play caller, but just seems to be a rising star on that side of the ball. Even bigger name would obviously be Davis Webb, who did get the play calling duties from Sean Payton in Denver. I mean he, he was as far as guys who like didn't get a head coaching job in this cycle. It seems like he's, he's like the biggest name in that group of players. I've, I've got a few others, but I'll throw it to y'.
- [21:03]
Derek
All.
- [21:04]
Robert Mayes
I think a lot of those names are absolutely worth mentioning. Webb is one that I, I probably should have had closer to the top of my list but didn't. Especially because he is calling plays this year. You mentioned Shield House. Clayton Adams I think should be more in consideration than he has been. Like I don't think he got a single head coaching interview last spring and I think that's a mistake.
- [21:25]
Derek
I think with the information we have now about these guys because almost none of them have called plays yet. Neither has Adams to be fair. But like just based on the work he's done with two offensive lines so far and the with the how good those units have looked, at least in the case of Arizona, like better than they should have been and then last year's I thought Dallas kind of kicked ass. He's the guy I would be circling and now maybe one of these guys, once they start calling plays, like really looks like one of those guys. But based on what we know now, I, I like Adams.
- [21:51]
Robert Mayes
Yeah, I think he should be in there. The young guys are going to be really interesting. Like Declan Doyle is somebody that at the end of this year, if it goes well with the Ravens, he absolutely is going to be a guy that is in consideration for one of these jobs. And I honestly think he should be like th. Those two guys, Declan Doyle and Grant Udinsky, both of those guys are immensely impressive. And just everything that I have heard about the way that they think and the way that they work and how organized they are, it's. That job is. It's a really interesting job. And I, and I think that for those two guys specifically it that when you're the offensive coordinator, even if you're not calling plays As a 28, 29 year old guy, it's a very good kind of proving ground when it comes to like interpersonal dynamics. Because even if you're not the person who's calling plays as the offensive coordinator, you are in charge of the offensive staff. Like that period from Sunday night when the game ends and even beyond that, even like into Thursday, Friday, Saturday, when a lot of the assistant position coaches and some of the QCs are getting ahead on game planning stuff, you're. You oversee like what that process looks like and kind of how that information is incorporated into the game plan. And so from the time that like look ahead stuff starts late in the week to what happens early in the week from like Sunday night when the game ends to Tuesday night when the game plan is put to bed, you're overseeing a lot of that and you're in charge of like making sure that the coaches are being incorporated to that process in the right way. And so even if you're not calling plays for a guy like a Grant Udinsky or somebody like a Declan Doyle, who's really young and in that role for the first time, it is a very good experience when it comes to just having a ton more oversight than you would otherwise. And so even, and I think that's true for all offensive coordinators, but especially for guys like that, because I think that's the biggest change when you, when you're a manager at age 29, it's a very, very different job than being an ideas guy when you're 27. And so for those guys specifically, I'll be curious what they do. A couple others I throw out that are just a huge unknowns this year but there's a lot of variance. I'll be very curious to see what happens with Sean Manning and David Blau this year, like, what those offenses look like. I. There could go a bunch of different ways. Dan Pitcher from the Bengals is somebody that I think is interesting. I think that he probably deserves at least some conversations about being a head coach. That, that. That job is just a lot different than a lot of other offensive coordinator jobs. Their staff is bigger than it used to be, but it used to be a very small staff. And then two other guys I throw in there. Brad. Brad Edzig, who we'll talk about again later on the show, is calling Place for the first time in Carolina this year. And I'll be curious to see what Tommy Reese does in Atlanta with the offensive talent that they have in Atlanta, because it's just a very different situation than it was with the Browns over the last couple of years when he was calling Place. So that. That those are the names I would throw out there.
- [24:40]
Derek
Yeah. As far as the offensive guys go, I think that that is kind of the list. And again, we talked about it, like, almost none of these guys have called plays yet, and some of them will this year, but it's. It gets complicated because of that. Like, usually we have five or six guys who have called it and, like, they're going to be the next ones up. But the defense is really more where you get some of those guys where, like Jim. Jim Leonard and Christian Parker. I'm interested to see how those defenses go. And then Campanile almost got jobs this year. Obviously he was taking some. Some.
- [25:06]
Dave
Campanelli is just a guy that I view as like a head coach in waiting at this point.
- [25:11]
Derek
I mean, it's going.
- [25:12]
Dave
Maybe I'm out over my skis, but, yeah, I feel pretty confident about that.
- [25:16]
Derek
The. The last defensive one, I think if we land in a spot next year where Jeff Ulbricht gets a job because somebody wants, like, a more stable, older defensive guy, I would not be that surprised.
- [25:28]
Robert Mayes
He did a really good job last year.
- [25:30]
Derek
He did an awesome job. Yeah.
- [25:31]
Robert Mayes
The other guy I'd throw out, like, I could see their defense being really good this year, in part because of who the head coach is, but I also think he's done a good job as a defensive coordinator is Anthony Weaver.
- [25:40]
Derek
Yeah, totally.
- [25:42]
Dave
So, Anthony, head coach makeup, that's for sure.
- [25:45]
Robert Mayes
Yeah, I would. I would throw him out there as well. All right, what's our next one?
- [25:49]
Katie
Katie T. Larson, 60 on Discord. On your last mailbag, you were debating Whether the Browns or jets would be a better landing spot for the number one QB in next year's draft. And it got me thinking. Not to make the fans of these cursed franchises feel any worse, but does it even matter which of these teams we choose? Would either of these teams with the number one pick from next year be able to rise to the level of consistent contender that would make the selection a success in the long term based on what stands in their way? The dream in drafting a quarterback number one overall is to have a special MVP caliber player who can help you overcome the deficits on your roster and compete for championships consistently. That is what both the Browns and Jets and Dolphins really are hoping for. However, when you look at the AFC north and AFC east respectively, there are already two special MVP caliber quarterbacks in each division. Jackson Burrow, Allen May My larger question is is it possible for there to be three MVP caliber quarterbacks in the same division at the same time? I cannot think of a division ever having three of these quarterbacks for an extended period of time. Is it possible for an Allen, May and hypothetically Manning to exist in the same division four plus years? Can the Browns or Jets, even if they were to hit on their quarterback next spring, become relevant if These other Star QBs and their teams remain at the height of their powers for the rest of the decade? For their fans sake and my personal enjoyment, I hope so. Derek, what do you got?
- [27:16]
Derek
Answer I actually did find a division that had this for a stretch there. The NFC south had Matt Ryan, Cam Newton who won back to back MVPs and obviously drew Brees was there for a lot of that and so I don't know how long you would say like their peaks overlapped maybe like seven years or so but that's a long time that both of the like all three of those guys were playing at MVP potential level and their teams were consistently in it and that sort of stuff and so it doesn't happen a lot but that one was one where it's like two literal MVPs and a hall of Famer who was consistently in the discussion.
- [27:47]
Robert Mayes
Also Tom Brady joined that division immediately after those guys left it and so this feels like there I don't what was would be the reason that this wouldn't happen.
- [27:58]
Dave
Like there's no, there's nothing happening right.
- [28:01]
Robert Mayes
It just happenstance and the fact that we don't have this many. There's only so many MVP type quarterbacks and so I think that's more the question than like a Highlander situation where there can only be two in any given division. Like, I don't, I don't think there's some cosmic rule against it. I would also say this. I don't think that success if you draft a quarterback in the top five is dictated by whether that player is a consistent MVP candidate every single year. If you're a fan of the jets and you, let's just say the first couple years are a little bit better because the circumstances are better. I know we're like, this is now fantasy land. If Trevor Lawrence, if you got Trevor Lawrence, if you were a Jets fan. And it's not about having an MVP caliber quarterback, it's about having a functioning adult play the position for the first time in a very long time. Like, I don't know if Caleb Williams is ever going to be a year in and year out MVP candidate. I'm pretty happy with the outcome so far for him. Being a draft pick in Chicago. Jordan Love, like, it's better that Jordan Love is the quarterback for the Packers. Like C.J. stroud. It's been up and down, but C.J. stroud, life is better with C.J. stroud than it was with Davis Mills. To me, this is more about can. Did you draft the quarterback that in the course of his rookie deal and hopefully beyond gives your team a real fighting chance to win and that's enough. Like that would be a victory if you are a Jets fan or a Browns fan.
- [29:26]
Dave
I mean, not to dogpile on those wonderful fans, but it makes me think of Matthew Stafford too. I mean, he was absolutely worth that pick. And the Lions never achieved the success that they wanted to while he was their quarterback. I mean, there's so many variables that go into this. Like you can nail the pick and draft a guy who's putting together a Hall of Fame resume and not necessarily sniff the ultimate goal. It's. It's a harsh reality of the sport. And then the other thing, speaking of harsh realities of the sport, so much shit happens. I mean, Joe, Joe Burrow's missed the playoffs two years in a row. Now. Some of that is because of in. Yeah. Is it three?
- [30:03]
Robert Mayes
Holy.
- [30:04]
Derek
I'm pretty sure it's three. Yeah.
- [30:05]
Robert Mayes
Three, four, five.
- [30:06]
Derek
Yeah.
- [30:07]
Dave
Joe Burrows missed the playoffs three years in a row at this point. And some of that's because of injury. Some of that's because it's hard to put a great team around a quarterback. I mean, Drew Brees missed the playoffs plenty of times during that stretch. You were talking about Derek. So. Ha. Like nailing the pick is not a guarantee that you're going to. Yeah, like, be in the MVP conversation and be in the playoffs every single year. I mean, what Josh Allen is doing is really remarkable. Patrick Mahomes was on a really remarkable run up until this last year, but even Patrick Mahomes was susceptible to falling out of the playoffs for various reasons. So, yeah, it, it'll all even out in the end. Like, I, I, I think that's fine. And then on top of that, let's say, let's say it's Arch Manning and let's say Arch Manning takes his star turn in year three. Well, Josh Allen's going to be 34, 35 by then. Like he will be. Not to put an end date on Josh Allen's career, but he will be closer to the end of his career than the beginning by that point. So I think May 8, Dave is
- [31:09]
Robert Mayes
driving a stake into Josh Allen's career at age 35.
- [31:12]
Dave
Stop it.
- [31:12]
Robert Mayes
He's saying it right now.
- [31:14]
Dave
Somebody's going to believe that. No, I'm. Josh Allen could play till he's 40, but even then he, so he'd have six years left and Arch Manning would be just beginning his career. So, yeah, I just, I don't think this, I think it'll even out over the course of enough years.
- [31:30]
Robert Mayes
I just think that when you draft a quarterback in the first round, my bar is not, is he going to be a year in, year out mvp? It's, is he good enough for my team to win? If other things are correct, and if the answer to that is yes, I think you'll be just fine. And so I, I hope that for the jets and the Brown sakes, if they draft a quarterback who's good, it does matter in some way, even if that player is not an mvp. The framing of that question from D lson is like, my God, if I were a Jets or Browns fan reading that in like the middle of the early May, I would be so, so depressed.
- [32:00]
Dave
Just really love that our debate about would you rather quarterback the jets versus The Browns. Like it. It prompted some real introspection and I appreciate that.
- [32:09]
Robert Mayes
Probably some introspection that people didn't enjoy. The final result of looking a little bit too deep into the abyss for some people. All right, before we move on, let's take one more quick break.
- [32:22]
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- [33:55]
Robert Mayes
All right, what's next?
- [33:56]
Katie
Katie this is also from Discord. Darpadarp is the username. Here's a fun roster building exercise for the mailbag. Build the best roster you can by using each NFL division to fill each of the eight position groups. For simplicity's sake, use the presumed starters from last year and let's ignore if they were injured. If you use one division for a group, you get the average performance level of all players on those teams. For example, if you want to use the AFC east for quarterback to get Josh Allen and Drake May, you also get Justin Fields and TUA averaged into their performance. You must use each division once and only once to fill each of the following position groups. Quarterback Offensive Line Running Back Tight End Slash Wide Receivers Defensive Line Linebackers Cornerbacks Safeties Robert, what do you got here?
- [34:44]
Robert Mayes
So just first off, I did the exercise wrong. I did it for this upcoming season. So I apologize about that.
- [34:50]
Dave
I think.
- [34:50]
Robert Mayes
Which I think is more fun anyway.
- [34:52]
Derek
I think yeah, that's also what I did.
- [34:53]
Dave
So we're all
- [34:56]
Derek
Good.
- [34:56]
Robert Mayes
Okay, that's fine. That's fine. I just want to acknowledge that like that's. I did it for this upcoming season. So that's it. I, Justin Fields and two are not involved in this, but Gino and Malik Willis are. When I'm weighing the AFC east quarterbacks, I think that's fine.
- [35:09]
Dave
I. I think that's fine.
- [35:10]
Robert Mayes
We can project enough. I'm not going to go through every single position here. I think we could take a position by position. I think that would actually be fun. Okay, so quarterback. This is difficult because the court disagree.
- [35:24]
Dave
I think this is the easiest one.
- [35:26]
Robert Mayes
Really.
- [35:27]
Dave
I think I, I feel really good about my. If we're projecting for 20, 26. My answer for quarterbacks, the NFC North.
- [35:35]
Robert Mayes
I also had the NFC North. I, I didn't think it was that easy though.
- [35:38]
Derek
I did the AFC east because I wanted the NFC north for something else.
- [35:42]
Robert Mayes
So my answer for quarterback in a vacuum, I think is NFC north because I just think that the floor is highest among that group. Like there just. There isn't like a real stinker in there. Depending on what you think of Kyler, I think Kyler is among like if every division the fourth best quarterback in that division, Kyler is the best one. And so I think that's partially why the NFC north was my answer. But if we can only use each division one time, I at the NFC North I think is a good candidate for some other positions. A spot that I actually don't think is as good of a candidate for other positions. And that's why it would probably be my runner up, probably be the AFC west because you get Mahomes and Herbert and then Nix is third and then, well, some combination of Cousins and Mendoza. I think the NFC north is the answer, but I didn't have AFC west for any of my other ones. And so I might go AFC west for that one.
- [36:35]
Dave
Specifically AFC west is a AFC west is a sneaky good answer. I also, I went NFC north because I'm with you, Robert. I would just rather, instead of averaging the four positions, I think of it as like if one of these four guys has to start for me, who's going to scare me the least? And so the NFC north that like
- [36:54]
Robert Mayes
cuts to the point like that puts you in like the emotionality of the moment in this exercise. And that's why I think it's the most effective way of thinking about it.
- [37:02]
Dave
So yeah, I, I just feel more comfortable asking all four NFC north quarterbacks to start for me. But I know Derek's answer And I get the thought process, though. Like, I don't. I don't hate it.
- [37:13]
Derek
I mean, if I have two MVPs, I feel like I come out in the average at, like, quarterback nine or 10, and I'm okay.
- [37:18]
Robert Mayes
You say, who's the second MVP in the AFC East?
- [37:21]
Derek
I mean, Josh Allen and Drake May was like, three votes from winning it.
- [37:25]
Robert Mayes
He did not win it is all. I'm saying it like, he's. We did this earlier.
- [37:29]
Derek
He was right there.
- [37:30]
Robert Mayes
One of the other questions was just treating like Drake May like he'd be an MVP candidate for the next decade, which I'm open to. But, like, let's just pump the brakes, like, a tiny bit.
- [37:38]
Derek
Coming off there before the season. I was there before the season. I'm just saying.
- [37:41]
Robert Mayes
Just. Just coming off the playoffs, I just, like. I think we can just pull it back a small bit with Drake May being as good as Josh Allen. Like, just like a tiny bit.
- [37:50]
Guest
That's all.
- [37:50]
Derek
He's. He's not as good. Josh Allen is obviously like Josh Allen. I'm certain will be that Drake May is like. I would bet on him to be that perfect.
- [37:58]
Robert Mayes
That the completely acceptable way of framing it. Okay.
- [38:01]
Dave
I just. I love the idea that Derek is that it's like a Frankenstein's monster of Geno and Malik Willis and Josh Allen and Drake May playing a game. And it's like, well, there's some bad in there, but the good will override it.
- [38:14]
Derek
Yes, sir.
- [38:15]
Robert Mayes
Do you think that's an acceptable answer? Especially we can only use each division once? I think the AFC ease depending on, you know, if. If you're choosing to see Geno in a certain way and you have a lot of faith in Malik Willis being at least decent. I think the AFC is a decent answer. Okay. Offensive line is the next one. I think this is an easy one for me.
- [38:33]
Derek
It's the NFC east, right? Yeah. Ooh. All those lines are good. And the best players in there are insane.
- [38:42]
Robert Mayes
Can I. Can I offer you a potential alternative? And here. And I think this alternative, I think is okay in part because I think they. This position doesn't have any other candidates. Like, this division doesn't have any other positional candidates. What about the NFC south for offensive lines?
- [39:01]
Dave
Yeah, I thought about them.
- [39:02]
Derek
That's pretty good, actually.
- [39:05]
Robert Mayes
There are no, like, abject bad offensive lines in the NFC South. The Saints, top to bottom, are a group you can get excited about. The Bucks went healthy, have a very good offensive line. The Panthers, we'll see what happens with Freeling But I think for the most part getting Robert Hump back, you know, even if they got to kind of squint at center a little bit, it's not a bad group. And Atlanta, Atlanta is a solid offensive line and so those four are pretty good. NFC east is the other candidate that I would throw in there. But I think you can pick the NFC east for a couple other different positions and you can't for the NFC South.
- [39:35]
Derek
I think that's. I did, I did have the NFC south for one later that I felt actually really good about. When we get there.
- [39:40]
Dave
McGarry retiring gave me pause about the DNFC South. But like Juwan Taylor is a perfectly solid addition, especially at that price point. I don't, I don't hate that. I still think there are just. There are so many animals on the offensive lines in the NFC East. I mean between Andrew Thomas, Lane Johnson, Jordan Mylotta, like all the guys in Philly, Dallas is loaded with first round draft picks. Fricking Laramie Tunsil plays in Washington. They're just so many monsters that that play in that division and what healthy
- [40:13]
Robert Mayes
like caused me back for a whole year. Year two of Connerly like Washington right now. Derek, would you rather have Washington's offensive line of the Giants?
- [40:23]
Derek
Man, I would probably say the Giants. I think the ceiling is a little bit higher. But yeah, I would probably say the Giants because the. But Washington's line isn't bad. Like especially if Connor Lee does take a step.
- [40:37]
Dave
That's a pro Giants thing, not an anti commanders thing. Like the Giants looks really promising which
- [40:44]
Derek
like two years ago I was like that's the worst unit I've ever seen.
- [40:47]
Robert Mayes
That's exactly right. And that's. I'm like just put yourself in this position where it's even a question. I think that's a pretty good spot. But so all right. NFC South, NFC East. But again NFC South. I just think there are fewer candidates running back.
- [41:00]
Derek
I landed on the AFC West. The AFC west is loaded with backstude and I didn't love that many other spots for that division. But Genty Genti Hampton and Kenneth Walker is a pretty sick. I, I think running back room.
- [41:16]
Dave
I can get on board with that. I did, I did AFC East. I just think it's top to bottom
- [41:21]
Robert Mayes
solid AFC east is my answer as well.
- [41:23]
Derek
Oh, that is good.
- [41:24]
Robert Mayes
Like the AFC West.
- [41:25]
Derek
Devon Hin.
- [41:26]
Robert Mayes
Yeah, yeah. Like Javante and RJ Harvey is like your fourth one there and we'll see what happens with Hampton in year two. But AFC east is top to bottom. Pretty good. Pretty darn good. Like, Ramandre Stevenson is probably like the worst of those running backs in the afc Ease. And Roger Stevenson is a pretty solid player. AFC east was my answer.
- [41:45]
Derek
That's good. The depth is definitely better in the East. I like that.
- [41:48]
Robert Mayes
The one that I'm most interested in, in how we're talking about it now versus how we'll be talking about at the end of the season. The NFC west
- [41:57]
Derek
for that room. Yeah.
- [41:58]
Dave
I think NFC west is a. Is a perfectly solid answer considering we
- [42:03]
Robert Mayes
haven't seen two of them play in the NFL.
- [42:05]
Dave
Yeah, exactly. Like the only thing, no NFC west is a good answer if you believe. I mean, certainly I think most people believe in Jeremiah Love, although the, the surrounding cast is going to matter a lot. And then Jadarian Price as well. Like, I don't, I don't dislike that. But yeah, I'd like a little more information.
- [42:24]
Robert Mayes
Tight ends, wide receivers. One of the reasons that I was going away from quarterback for the NFC north is that I was going to go past catchers for the NFC North. So I think that's why I defaulted to AFC west for quarterbacks, because I, I think that NFC north for pass catchers is. That's pretty clearly the best answer.
- [42:42]
Derek
To me, I think there are only a couple of these where it's like that's objectively the correct answer. I think NFC Northrop pass catcher is like objectively correct. Like Justin Jefferson, Tucker Kraft, Colson Loveland, Amon Ross, St. Brown. Once you get to like 4 and 5, it's still like Roma Dunes. A Christian Watson is good. Like Sam Laporta is in this division. Like, it just, it doesn't end with this. Jordan Addison is still in this division. Hawkinson, like, you're, you're like 11th best player in this group is still like could make a Pro bowl in any given year.
- [43:12]
Robert Mayes
Yeah. And I think that's a good way of looking at it. And also which team's pass catching group in the NFC is the worst one in the NFC North? It's the Packers. Right, The Packers.
- [43:23]
Derek
And the worst talent.
- [43:24]
Dave
Yes.
- [43:24]
Robert Mayes
And that like, if that's the worst one, then you're doing pretty damn good. Like, yeah, the biggest question when it comes to like the quality of the pass catchers in the NFC north is what is Matthew Golden a first round pick going to be? And like, what are the limitations of a player like Jaden Reed who just got like a decent second contract? Like, those are the biggest questions about the past catchers in the NFC North. That's a pretty good place to be overall across four teams.
- [43:51]
Derek
Insane division.
- [43:53]
Dave
If you don't, if you subscribe to the exercise and you don't want to reuse the NFC north, like, I'll take the NFC north quarterbacks at the expense of losing all those pass catchers. And if I, if I'm doing that, then I'll submit the AFC north just because, I mean, you get Jamar Chase, and he is a good start right off the bat. Then you get DK Michael Pittman. I think in totality, Baltimore's collection of talent is fine. And then I like a lot of the young guys in Cleveland. And again, like, this is because I had other answers with other divisions. Like, I'm not saying it's loaded top to bottom, but. But again, I mean, Jamar and T across like, as that is my starting point makes me feel fine about it.
- [44:36]
Robert Mayes
And so I would say if I was like, I'm. I use AFC west. And so I'm still subscribing to the exercise. AFC west for the quarterbacks, NFC south for the Lions, AFC east for the running backs. And so I can go NFC North. But even if I wasn't, I would throw out two that we have not mentioned otherwise that I still think I'd rather have over the AFC North. And that's in part because I think the AFC north has one of the clearest answers for a different one. The NFC east pass catchers are still pretty damn good, especially if we're counting AJ Brown is in there right now. So the Eagles are in a very good spot. Washington, obviously, after McCorn is a question, but you still have Terry McCorn. The Giants still have Malik neighbors. Like, we're just forgetting about Malik neighbors. He's still in there. And then Dallas, I mean, Dallas's pass catchers are ridiculous. So the NFC east is good, and I think I'd rather have the NFC west than the AFC North.
- [45:23]
Derek
The NFC south also, if we're doing pass catchers, is pretty good, like Drake, London, Tel and McMillan propaganda. It is Chris Olave. Like, I mean, I know they lost Mike Evans, but, like, the Bucks still have some good guys. Like, that's a good. That's a good one, too.
- [45:38]
Robert Mayes
I think there are more questions on the two through four of those teams than there are with some of these other divisions. There's a lot of, like, built in optimism for young players. Like, I think the Saints with Jordan Tyson can be very good. We still have never seen Jordan, Tyson play in the NFC West. You got Puka and devonte. Plus the group of tight ends with the Rams in Arizona. Even if you don't love Marvin Harrison, it's still Marvin Harrison, Michael Wilson and Trey McBride. Like, you have to throw Trey McBride in there. For Seattle, we have JSN as part of this conversation. And then for San Francisco, like Mike Evans, Ricky Pearsall, George Kittle, if he's healthy, like, the NFC west is still pretty damn good, especially if we're not going to use them anywhere else.
- [46:20]
Dave
Well, I'm going to use them somewhere else. That's the trick of this exercise. And I, I really like where I wound up with the NFC west. So you're not wrong, but I'm. I'm sticking to my guns here. All right?
- [46:31]
Robert Mayes
I'm going to use NFC north for my receivers because I didn't use them for quarterbacks. I think I feel okay about that defensive line.
- [46:39]
Dave
That's where I'm using the NFC West. Give me Seattle, give me the Rams, give me Boza and O Diggy Zua and, And they. Yeah, give. Give me. And honestly, like, Arizona is whatever. I don't give a shit. If you give me those 3D lines, I'll make it work.
- [46:54]
Robert Mayes
I don't care if Arizona gets Walter Nolan and Josh Sweat is still in there. I had AFC north for my defensive lines. Yeah, Cincinnati is a projection. Right, but you still have Dexter Lawrence as part of that. And then in Baltimore, if Mattabik is Trey Hendrickson, we have Trey Hendrickson and Matabk in Baltimore. We know what you have in Cincinnati or in Cleveland and then you have Pittsburgh. And so AFC north for a defensive lines. I wasn't going to use them anywhere else. And so that's why I was tempted to go defensive lines with the AFC North. NFC west is a good shout, though. I, I for. I guess it's because in San. For San Francisco right now, the defensive line wasn't good last year and so I'm not considering them that sort of team. But you still get a Doogie Zoa, you still get Bosa, Mikel Williams in year two. Yeah, NFC west is good with that. Who is your answer for that? Derek? For defensive lines, I.
- [47:45]
Derek
So I ended up. I think those are better. Like, I think to me the best answer is the NFC west, but I ended up kind of needing them and wanting them for something else. I actually, this is where I ended up putting the AFC south because I think the high end for so many of these is like insane. Obviously you have the Texans and then you have the Jaguars. Ends are also pretty Damn good. And then at D tackle, you have, like, DeForest Buckner is in there. Jeffrey Simmons is in there. Grover Stewart is a really good nose if you need him, like Kaden McDonald. I know we're projecting a little bit, but, like, he's in there. I think you get, like, the lower end of this division is kind of tough, but the high end is so high that if we're doing the average, like, we're okay.
- [48:22]
Robert Mayes
I think you're asking the Texans to do a lot of lifting there, and there's a chance they can.
- [48:26]
Derek
I think they can.
- [48:27]
Robert Mayes
Right? That's.
- [48:28]
Dave
That's possible.
- [48:29]
Child
I.
- [48:30]
Robert Mayes
We can transition to this one next. Because I think that there was a clear answer for me for the AFC south, and it's cornerback. The corners in the AFC south are like.
- [48:42]
Derek
It's pretty insane.
- [48:42]
Robert Mayes
All the other divisions, if. If we're doing Dave's thing where you have to watch a game as a fan of this team with these guys in there. Every other division has at least a team where you're just like, nope, I don't. I don't want to do this.
- [48:57]
Derek
I like this. I'll flip this. Cause for corners. So initially, when I did this exercise, I was actually not necessarily doing the average, but I was just like, how can I build my best five or six or whatever it is? And so I had the AFC north for corners, because if you do the best five, you can get a pretty good one. But I would probably actually flip it now and do AFC north for my D line and then AFC south for corners if we're doing the average, because, yeah, the bottom end, even for corners in this division outside of Tennessee, is pretty damn good.
- [49:23]
Dave
Tennessee just spent a small portion of the cornerstone. Taylor.
- [49:30]
Derek
Yeah, never mind.
- [49:31]
Dave
AFC south was my choice for cornerback as well, just because I'm not terrified of anybody's room.
- [49:39]
Katie
If you.
- [49:39]
Robert Mayes
If you. Right now, the starting eight outside. And again, we Nickels, you throw in there as well. But if we're just doing the starting eight outside corners in the AFC south, it's Derek Stingley, Kamari Laster, Charvarius Ward, Sauce Gardner, Monteric Brown, Travis Hunter, Alante Taylor, Cordell Flock. Who's the worst player of those eight?
- [50:00]
Derek
Like Monteric Brown.
- [50:04]
Robert Mayes
Yeah. And how much did Monteric Brown just.
- [50:05]
Derek
Yeah, and like, Tarek Brown had a really good season. Exactly.
- [50:09]
Robert Mayes
He's making $11 million a year, and he's the worst player among those eight like that. That, to me, was the clearest one I get.
- [50:17]
Dave
I mean, it's. It's injury but like, I'm tr. Travis Hunter is still mostly an unknown to me.
- [50:23]
Robert Mayes
That's fair. That's fair.
- [50:24]
Dave
I hesitate to call him the worst corner, but I just don't know as much about him as I'd prefer.
- [50:29]
Robert Mayes
All right, fine. So the guy who was billed as a generational cornerback prospect is the worst corner in the division. That.
- [50:36]
Dave
That's fine.
- [50:37]
Robert Mayes
That's the answer is just as good.
- [50:39]
Dave
It's fine.
- [50:41]
Robert Mayes
Linebackers is next. That I didn't even know where to go with this. I'm very curious where you guys went because one of the fun parts of this exercise is that you really do get a holistic look at like the quality of the position across the entire league. There are no good. There are no divisions with like good linebackers across the board. There isn't a single one.
- [51:01]
Derek
I. This is where I felt like this was the best use of the NFC west because again, the high end, you have Fred Warner, obviously you get Ernest Jones, who is really, really good. Drake Thomas played fine. And then like, that's where you get. You get to the third and it's just like, it's not that great. Derek, the high end is so good.
- [51:21]
Robert Mayes
Derek is just like. I love Derek in this exercise. Cause it's just like I'm just taking the best players and then I'm never going to make. I have to worry about you. You realize that you. You just picked the division where three of the off ball linebackers that are starters right now on the first line of the depth chart are Mack Wilson, Nate Lamon, Omar Spates, which like, Nate Lamon was fine last year. But like the. You just picked a team.
- [51:46]
Derek
Mack Wilson wasn't that bad last year.
- [51:50]
Robert Mayes
That I. That's. That one's tougher.
- [51:52]
Derek
Problem is like, who else do you put here with who we have left? That becomes the issue.
- [51:56]
Robert Mayes
It's a really good question.
- [51:58]
Dave
So I don't feel great about it because Robert is right. There's no division that you completely feel great about. But this is where I used the AFC West. Cause it's. It's mostly fine across the board. And the Raiders really helped me out here by paying Quay Walker and Nicobe Dean a shitload of money.
- [52:16]
Robert Mayes
So with the Broncos guys.
- [52:18]
Dave
The Broncos guys are not great. But then you have. You got Bolton and Chanel. You got Derek's guy.
- [52:26]
Robert Mayes
It's true. Tranquil.
- [52:28]
Dave
I meant Drew. Tranquil. They're all. I get them confused.
- [52:31]
Derek
I do love me a Denzel Perryman though. I'll give you that.
- [52:34]
Robert Mayes
All the white linebackers are the same, says Dave.
- [52:37]
Dave
Your words, not mine. Yeah, I, I think it's. I think it's mostly solid.
- [52:43]
Derek
The floor is higher here. The ceiling is much higher.
- [52:47]
Dave
Floor is what I'm always. High floor is what I'm always going after here.
- [52:51]
Robert Mayes
Do we get to a place by the end of the year even though we've already used them, where the AFC east is going to be in this conversation? The Giants have Jermaine Edmonds and Arvell Reese now Jihad Campbell. Nfcs, excuse me. Tremaine Edmonds and Arvell recent with the
- [53:09]
Dave
Giants all over the place, trying to keep all this together.
- [53:12]
Robert Mayes
The nfc. I think the NFC east by the end of the year would be an interesting one to watch with signing.
- [53:17]
Derek
If we were just doing, like, who is the best? Like, it. It could be them there again. I think the offensive line is almost so good I want to use that. But, like, that could be in a vacuum. That might be the answer.
- [53:28]
Robert Mayes
Safeties north was the first place my mind went here, but I've already used them. And so I'm curious.
- [53:34]
Dave
I'm jumping in because I'm, I'm. I. I'm charting. Derek's. I'm. I'm keeping track of you, Derek. And I'm guessing this is where you use the NFC south also.
- [53:43]
Derek
Yes. And I think it's like that.
- [53:45]
Dave
Hell yeah, brother.
- [53:47]
Derek
Loaded here.
- [53:47]
Dave
It's great. It's wonderful in the NFC south, like
- [53:51]
Derek
Anton Winfield, Jesse Bates, Trevin Merrick, Tyke Smith, Justin Reed, Jonas Sanker. Like, this division is loaded with good safeties.
- [54:00]
Dave
It is.
- [54:00]
Robert Mayes
That's a good one.
- [54:01]
Dave
It's very fun.
- [54:02]
Robert Mayes
The Nick Scott part of it, like, when I went through this, I was thinking about the low end and like, if the low end is low enough, I was worried. And so Nick Scott still being a starter for the Panthers, I'm like, I don't know how I feel about that. But across the board, like, seven of the eight guys. I think you're right. I think that's a really good use of these divisions.
- [54:19]
Derek
I forgot to mention Xavier Watts, who played pretty well for the Falcons last year. Like, they. Almost every safety in this division is like, pretty good.
- [54:26]
Robert Mayes
And again, I. If we. The other. We used them before. But the NFC north safeties, if, you know, you project them in to be decent player and guys are healthy. You have Kobe Bryant, Dylan Theman in Chicago, Kirby BR and Brian Branch in Detroit, Evan Williams and Xavier McKinney in Green Bay. And then the Vikings guys is kind of like, we'll see with Harrison Smith gone, but they've gotten decent play out of that position for a while now. So the NFC North, I think three of the four teams are in a really good spot, but afc, NFC south is a very good answer there. I think that's probably right. All right. That was fun.
- [55:00]
Derek
That was a beast. I love that.
- [55:01]
Robert Mayes
We just spent like 20 minutes on that, so that's going to be the last question of the show. As always, sincerely appreciate everyone who sent in those questions. We will be back here next Monday with our next mailbag. For now, that's all we got. Appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you very soon. Thanks for tuning in. Make sure to hit that subscribe or Follow button so you never miss an episode. If you enjoyed what you heard, please, like comment and leave a rating. We'll see you next time.
- [55:28]
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