10 questions we have entering the NHL season

Summary

The Athletic Hockey Show: "10 Questions We Have Entering the NHL Season"

Date: October 6, 2025
Hosts: Max Bultman, Mark Lazarus (with Jesse Granger)

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the 2025-26 NHL season’s “10 biggest questions,” ranging from team previews and player injuries to major storylines—such as Sidney Crosby’s future and the latest on big-name goalies. Max Bultman and Mark Lazarus, with special guest Jesse Granger, break down key debates, roster shake-ups, the shifting balance of power in the NHL, and plenty more, using their typical conversational style that mixes analysis with banter.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Chaotic Preseason: Panthers vs. Lightning

• [01:34–04:08]
  • Mark reports from Florida about an “absurd” Panthers-Lightning preseason game: 16 ejections, 312 penalty minutes, general chaos.
  • Mark: “It was the stupidest thing I’ve ever seen.” [02:11]
  • Frustration with long, meaningless preseason; both believe fewer games would be better.
  • Max notes the original intention of preseason—reps and injury avoidance—is lost when rivals clash repeatedly.

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2. Biggest Question: What Are the Florida Panthers Without Alexander Barkov?

• [04:08–07:41]
  • Barkov is injured; co-star Kachuk is also out.
  • Mark recounts a conversation with Coach Paul Maurice, mentioning Maurice nearly calls Barkov the "best player in the world."
  • Sam Reinhart must step into Barkov’s top role—both offensively and defensively.
  • Max: “It was always the debate—Is Reinhart this good, or is he playing with Barkov?”
  • Sam Bennett’s regular-season value (vs. his playoff dominance) is questioned after his new contract.
  • Both agree the development of Anton Lundell is crucial.

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3. Stanley Cup Favorites in a Post-Barkov World

• [07:41–11:49]
  • Max: “Are the Panthers still your Cup favorite?” Mark says no.
  • Mark’s perpetual pick is the Dallas Stars: “I am Charlie Brown and the Dallas Stars are my Lucy.” [08:13]
  • Vegas with Mitch Marner is Max’s top pick.
  • Mark marvels at the Knights’ salary gymnastics: “Money doesn’t seem to exist in the world of the Vegas Golden Knights.” [09:19]
  • Open field this year: Up to 7–8 teams seen as True contenders (Stars, Avs, Jets, Oilers, Knights).
  • Eastern teams (Tampa, Toronto, Florida) are dubbed talented but not as deep as their Western rivals.

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4. Betting Preview: Cup Odds and Contenders

• [11:24–13:56]
  • West-dominated favorites: Oilers, Knights, Avs, Stars.
  • Carolina only Eastern “top five” contender at current odds.
  • Longshot discussion: Winnipeg (President’s Trophy winners) and NY Rangers have same odds.

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5. Can the Rangers Rebound? (And Are They Better Than the Jets?)

• [13:00–17:18]
  • New coach Mike Sullivan’s impact is debated.
  • Mark skeptical: “This is a pretty veteran team that’s going to be kind of set in its ways.”
  • Max: “...he’s the right kind of presence. His word is going to carry a lot of weight in that room.”
  • The contrast in captain styles (J.T. Miller vs. Jacob Trouba) is highlighted.

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6. Sidney Crosby and Connor McDavid: The Blockbuster Questions

• [20:16–29:32]
  • Will Crosby finish the season as a Penguin? Will McDavid remain an Oiler?
  • Mark says Crosby-as-trade-bait is real: “We’ve gotten a little too precious about Sidney Crosby. ...I would rather see Crosby in the playoffs again than see him retire as a Penguin.” [21:08]
  • Max and Mark agree Crosby still deserves playoff hockey and that the league is “deprived” of his postseason presence.
  • Pittsburgh’s lack of youth and debate about whether trading Crosby for assets outweighs the legacy of "one-team player.”
  • McDavid’s future: “If I’m team chaos, I want to see him reach free agency so badly.” [26:22]
  • Discussion of McDavid's possible next contract (“Is he worth $25M if Kaprizov's worth $17M?”), and the difficult optics of taking a maximum deal in a hard-cap league.

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7. Contract Trends and Cap Consequences

• [30:15–32:53]
  • Max and Mark on the new salary landscape: mid-2020s contracts for young stars will look like steals as the cap rises.
  • Mark: “Don’t sign for eight years. Don’t do it, it’s a trap. It’s what the billionaires want.” [32:53]
  • Short-term deals for stars are the smart play now.

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8. Habs and Sens: Who’s for Real after Breakthrough Playoff Appearances?

• [33:09–36:34]
  • Which rebuild is more for real: Montreal or Ottawa?
  • Mark is slightly higher on Montreal, but voices concern: “Who’s falling out?” Given East depth, new playoff blood hard to envision unless a major team collapses.
  • Max slightly prefers Ottawa’s chances for repeat.

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9. The Carolina Hurricanes vs. the Islanders: Playoff Boredom or Underdog Love?

• [36:34–37:44]
  • East 6–10 is more competitive than West, but Islanders capture underdog interest, whereas Carolina feels repetitive.
  • Mark: “The Hurricanes, I don’t find... as ugly and boring as other people do. They’re a little repetitive...” [36:51]

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10. Goaltender Corner with Jesse Granger

• [39:27–55:58]

Connor Hellebuyck: Can He Rebound?

• Jesse: “He researches and thinks about the way he plays more than any athlete I’ve ever spoken to...I think he learned some things in those playoffs...” [39:54]
• Hellebuyck tends to “tinker” too much in playoffs, needs to trust his instincts.

Jonathan Toews in Winnipeg: Viable #2 Center or Depth Piece?

• Mark calls Toews “the most interesting guy in the league this year; the ceiling is so high and the floor is so unbelievably low.” [45:11]
• Concerns about health, recovery, and whether he can handle a demanding workload.
• Max and Jesse: Toews as a 3C would be ideal—asking him to drive a 2nd line is unrealistic.

Will Vegas Sign Carter Hart?

• Jesse says all indicators point yes, but it’s a PR and on-ice gamble: “He hasn’t played in two years;...it’s probably the hardest position to come back from.” [51:16]
• Mark: “Why would this guy...be worth the inevitable PR hit...he was a subpar goalie his last year.” [53:12]
• Jesse: There are safer goalie options, but Hart’s ceiling and pedigree draw teams in; his highlight-reel athletic saves stand out.

Waiver Watch: New Goalie Names to Watch

• Jesse calls out Clay Stevenson (Washington), predicts he’ll be notable by season’s end.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Preseason Fights:

  • Mark: “I hate the preseason. Players hate the preseason. ... Maybe the Panthers and Lightning...should not be playing three consecutive preseason games.” [02:11]

• On Barkov’s Value:

  • Mark: “He’s like the perfect hockey player...He is irreplaceable.” [04:42]

• Stanley Cup Loyalty:

  • Mark: “I am Charlie Brown and the Dallas Stars are my Lucy. I’m going to pick them for the rest of time.” [08:13]

• On Crosby’s Legacy:

  • Max: “He is a winner, above all...Depriving the NHL, all stakeholders, of him in the playoffs is depressing.” [22:19]

• On Jonathan Toews:

  • Mark: “The ceiling is so high, the floor is so unbelievably low. ... I could see him winning a Stanley Cup, I could see him not even making it to that first game.” [45:12]

• Contract Wisdom:

  • Mark: “Don’t sign for eight years. Don’t do it, it’s a trap. It’s what the billionaires want.” [32:53]

• Carter Hart on Comebacks:

  • Jesse: “He hasn't played hockey in two years...If you're going to sign Carter Hart, you have to clearly believe he is...a different tier of goalie.” [51:39]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment/Topic | | --- | --- | | 01:34 | Chaotic Lightning-Panthers preseason recap | | 04:08 | Florida Panthers without Barkov—Reinhart & Bennett’s roles | | 07:41 | Stanley Cup favorites post-Barkov; West vs. East power balance | | 11:24 | Cup odds: Betting favorites and dark horses | | 13:00 | Can the Rangers rebound? Mike Sullivan’s impact debated | | 20:16 | Blockbuster questions: Crosby trade? McDavid’s future? | | 30:15 | New contract era: short-term deals and cap rising | | 33:09 | Habs vs. Sens: Real Playoff teams or regression? | | 36:34 | Islanders/Carolina: Playoff styles, East 6–10 rankings | | 39:27 | Jesse Granger goalie segment: Hellebuyck, Toews, Carter Hart | | 55:58 | Wrap up and Jesse’s annual “dart at a goalie” sleeper pick |

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Tone & Style

The conversation is high-energy, direct, irreverent, and packed with well-informed takes. The hosts riff, debate, challenge each other, and regularly point out league-wide trends. The episode is jargon-friendly and fast-paced, but explanatory enough for engaged NHL fans (and strongly rewards listeners with background knowledge of current NHL narratives).

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Conclusion

This episode previewed the NHL’s new season with a series of interwoven questions, sharp commentary, and positionally focused analysis. Key player injuries, shifting team strengths, the legacies of superstars, contract negotiations, and prospects for emerging or returning teams set the table for what promises to be one of the most competitive and unpredictable NHL seasons in recent memory.

Transcript

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[Mark Lazarus]

This is the Athletic Hockey Show.

[Max Boltman]

Hey everybody, Max Boltman here alongside Mark Lazarus for a new episode and a new season. Really, a new era. If I could be that bold of the Athletic Hockey Show. If you are watching us on YouTube, welcome. Hopefully you've heard us before, but if not, well, you got to see our faces, so that's tough. But we are now on YouTube. For those of you not watching on YouTube, you can go to YouTube.com athletics@the athletic Hockey Show. Make sure you subscribe and follow along all season. It's going to be really fun. I hope it's half as fun last as what we saw in the final preseason game from the Lightning and the Panthers on Saturday night. Different kind of fun, perhaps, but fun nonetheless.

[Mark Lazarus]

I'll tell you, I was at that game. I'm down here ahead of the season opener doing some stories on the Panthers. I had my story. You can see it on the Athletics today. It was not fun at all. It was the stupidest thing I've ever seen. It was a three hour and ten minute preseason hockey game. There were 16 ejections. There were 312 penalty minutes. At one point there were three Tampa Bay skaters on the entire bench plus the backup goalie. They had a goal. A goal was scored. Jesper Boquist scored a goal. And then six minutes later in game time, like 40 minutes later in real time they took it off the board because Nico Mikaela was on the ice for that goal and he had been kicked out of the game and didn't know it. This was. Look, I hate the preseason. Players hate the preseason. I, I'm glad that the new CBA has us knocking this down to four preseason games in the future. I will be happy when it gets down to zero because it's, it's just, it's bad hockey. Nobody likes it, nobody wants to pay for it. And let me just say maybe the Panthers and Lightning, two teams that despise each other, should not be playing three consecutive preseason games in a five day span.

[Max Boltman]

Yeah, it feels like the whole point of the preseason at this point basically is to try to get guys a few reps and not get hurt. And I, I'm guessing that that's why they're playing each other this often is because it's easy travel to and from that. It's easy on their bodies, you know, same day travel kind of deal. But if you're going to go and take 300 penalty minutes in a game, I think we lose the, the player safety, you know, keep it healthy angle.

[Mark Lazarus]

Yeah, Aaron Eckblad got cross checked in the mouth like two minutes into the game. And a lot of this was in response to. It was Greer who had a big hit on Brandon Hagel, a cheap shot in the second game of this three game series. Nobody needs this. This isn't helping anybody. This preseason should be about the young guys trying to prove that they can play in the NHL. It's always a great story when some kid goes out there, scores a couple of goals, makes a big hit, makes a good defensive play and finds himself a spot on the opening night roster. But more and more we're just seeing this kind of nonsense and you know, maybe there's some people left over from the 70s who like this, but it was just excruciating to watch.

[Max Boltman]

Well, we've got a lot of Panthers to talk today because I think the main kind of angle for this show is going to be our biggest questions for this season. We've outlined 10 of them and the most important one is what do the Florida Panthers look like without Alexander Barkov? I mean this is a team that is not short on injuries. Matthew Kachuka, I think you can argue those are the two biggest identity setters for the Florida Panthers. But Barkov is their most important player. He's their heartbeat. I think he deserves MVP consideration every year and, and they're going to be without him. And I Wonder what you think they look like in a, in a non Barkov world for at least a long stretch of this season.

[Mark Lazarus]

I had a nice long conversation with Paul Maurice on Friday after practice and he had to catch himself because at one point he was about to say that Sasha Barkov is the best player in the world and he caught himself and then just said, you know what, he's just a really good player. Let's leave it at that. But there is a case to be made. He's like the perfect hockey player, right? He does everything well at both ends of the ring. He kills penalties, he scores on the power play. He is irreplaceable. But I think what we're going to find out is just how good of a two way player Sam Reinhart is. Reinhardt was number one on my Selkie ballot last year. He finished second on the ballot. He was fourth the year before. We're going to find out just how good he is because he's playing on a line with Barkov almost exclusively and putting up these incredible numbers, better defensive metrics than Barkov while scoring. I think he had 96 goals over the last two seasons. So he is now the number one guy. He's the number one offensive guy and he's the number one defensive forward for this team. Can he do it with Sam Bennett on his as his center instead of Barkov? Can Anton Lundell? Is this the year that he takes a step into stardom? He is incredible. Like Barkov, light player. There's so much depth in Florida and their back end is so good and they still have Sergey Bobrovsky. You know, a lot of people are talking about, you know, maybe this team doesn't make the playoffs this year. I'm just not buying that it'll be harder. But they're still going to get in and when they get there they're going to be dangerous.

[Max Boltman]

And that was the debate. Like as I filled out my Selkie ballot, it was okay, is Reinhardt this good or is he playing with Barkov? Right. And you say his better metrics, when, when two guys are on a line, those are skewed by those like little 10 second increments. When one guy gets off the ice a little bit sooner and you have, it's really hard to parse that. So you're right. It's going to be a really interesting year for Sam Reinhart. I think it's the Sam Bennett component of all this is fascinating to me because he was one of the most interesting free agents last year. He was the guy that we all looked at and we're like, how much do you pay this guy who for the 82 regular season games is a really good but not like headline free agent level player the playoffs flip on. He won the Con Smythe. He deserved to win the Con Smythe. He was one of the most important players in both of the Florida Panthers Stanley cup runs. Now he's going to have to be that important to them during the regular season. I'm, you mentioned Lindell. Like Lindell can ease that burden on him for sure. But I, I, I think Sam Bennett is in under a huge spotlight this season as well after signing that contract.

[Mark Lazarus]

Yeah, I mean Sam Bennett is like an ideal number two center, but he's got to be your number one this year. Right? So that's a huge question that this team has to answer. But again, you look at that team and it's, it's, it's terrifying to look at their cap sheet because every one of these guys is signed through the end of the decade, through 2030. Like so they're going to be here for a long time to come. They might get better in the long run by learning how to play without Barkov. This year they're going to learn a lot about themselves and about who can play what kind of roles. But I think Lundell is really the guy that I think takes this huge step this year. Bennett, I feel like he is what he is. You know, he is a guy who is made for playoff hockey and his, his, his game succeeds. But we've seen those guys year after year after year that just, you can't do that. You can't play that way for 82 games. It's too much. So I think Bennett will be fine. I think Lundell has to be great for this team to be what it needs to be.

[Max Boltman]

I mean his line with Marchand and loose Derinen was a defining part in all of their series victories, their entire run. And now it's just going to be even more ice time. Maybe that can be an okay thing for the Panthers. That can elevate them. It can give Lindell more confidence. Obviously you want to guys at his age to start grabbing more and more responsibility. We're going to find out if the Florida Panthers, I'm going to assume the Florida Panthers are no longer your pick for the Stanley Cup. If they were to begin with after this injury, Alexander Barkov, they were not. Okay. Who is your favorite in a, in a post Barkov injury world, your favorite to win the Stanley Cup?

[Mark Lazarus]

I am Charlie Brown and the Dallas Stars are my Lucy. I'm going to pick them for the rest of time until I finally am.

[Max Boltman]

Correct and you got a chance at it. The Dallas Stars are really, really good.

[Mark Lazarus]

Really good.

[Max Boltman]

They're going to have a full season of Miko rant in it. I think any, you know, ideas of like the growing pains, the fit were answered pretty thoroughly by what he did in that first playoff series against Colorado. But I think they only get smoother as the more time that he has to practice with this group to build chemistry with this group. Thomas Harley takes another step. He was a massive star turn last year and he takes another step in that. So I think the Dallas Stars are a very valid pick. Who would you guess though as we do our our bet MGM segment, our sports betting partner. Who would you guess is the favorite? It's co favorites. I'll give you that hint.

[Mark Lazarus]

I'm guessing the Edmonton Oilers are one of them.

[Max Boltman]

They are. The Edmonton Oilers of course have been to the last two Stanley cup finals. Lost to the Panthers. Their co favorite at +800 odds is my pick to win the Stanley Cup. The new and improved featuring 100% more Mitch Marner, Vegas Golden Knights.

[Mark Lazarus]

You said new. I was like, are you going to say the Rangers right now? Seriously, I was going to reach across the screen and smack you in the face. Vegas, I get it. Yeah. You got Mitch Marner up there. Jack Eichel, he's playing for a contract. There's a lot to like in Vegas right now. That is a good team. That is a ruthless team and you know they're going to figure out a way to keep adding. Somehow money doesn't seem to exist in the world of the Vegas Golden Knights. Yeah, absolutely. A good pick. It feels, doesn't it feel more open this year than it has in a lot in a long time? I can name seven or eight teams that I could say realistically could win the Cup. I think Dom and Shayna and and Gentile did their preview. Didn't they have Tampa Bay is the best team in the league this year. Like a team that we had that their run was supposed to be over and here they are.

[Max Boltman]

Here's the thing. I picked Tampa Bay at the start of last playoffs to win the Stanley cup and Florida, you know, snuffed that out in a hurry.

[Mark Lazarus]

Yep.

[Max Boltman]

But now in this new landscape, I mean I think a lot of the things that I liked about Tampa last April I still really like about them. I think they're still very loaded up front. I think they have kind of restocked their third line. And I don't know if it'll ever be quite what it was in their heyday. The way that their third line, much like what the Panthers did last year, you know, changed matchups for them. They still have Andre Vasilevsky. They still have Victor Headman. I think the Tempe Lightning have as good a chance as anybody as at least coming out of the East. I just think the real heavyweights are in the west this year.

[Mark Lazarus]

I agree. It has been that way for a while. Not really. The Panthers notwithstanding, it feels like that the balance of power is in the west, even though the east has been dominating for a long time. You know, you look at that Central Division alone, you've got Dallas and you've got Colorado. Colorado is a trendy pick to win the cup again this year. They're just so damn talented. You know, the Winnipeg jets are the reigning Presidents Trophy winner. You got the Oilers and the Knights in the Pacific. I feel like those five teams, to me, those are the five best teams in hockey. There's nobody in the east that I would put up against them. I think the world of Tampa and Toronto is still, you know, up there and talented. And Florida is not going away. I'm certain of that. But I don't think New Jersey is ready to make that leap yet. I don't think that really any of these teams, you know, Ottawa and Montreal are not there yet. I still think that the road to the Stanley cup is going to go through the West.

[Max Boltman]

Four of the top five by bet. Mgm. Stanley cup odds are in the West. Oilers in Vegas at +800, the Avalanche at +8.50, and the Stars at +900. The Carolina Hurricanes are the other team in that mix. They're tied with Colorado at +850. Then some of the other teams you mentioned, Panthers and Lightning plus 1100, New Jersey Devils plus 1400. You get the Toronto Maple Leafs at plus 1600. And after that, you know, you're into the kind of the longer shots. The 2000 and up club.

[Mark Lazarus]

We have the Rangers and the Winnipeg jets have the same odds to win the Stanley Cup. A team that face planted so badly and missed the playoffs that they had to rethink the whole thing. And the jets won the President's Trophy and they have the same odds to win the Stanley Cup.

[Max Boltman]

What's the difference between the New York Rangers and the Winnipeg jets to you? Because I think not much of one.

[Mark Lazarus]

I mean, obviously the goaltenders are what you go to first. It's the two best goalies on the planet.

[Max Boltman]

It's an elite goaltender that, that you're asking to carry the mail and a bunch of other things for you, right? Like they are everything to their teams. There is some star power for sure. I mean, that Adam Fox, Josh Morrissey, really good defenseman Corey Promen's going to jump through my window here and tell me that Adam Fox is not on the level of Josh Marcy. That might even be true. I don't know. But I think that they're actually remarkably similarly constructed teams. I might slightly prefer the Rangers forward group to what the jets are rolling out this year. I mean, Panarin and Kyle Conner, you have, you know, down the middle. I think New York, you got to have trochecks advantage at Miller. I think I'm taking that. And we'll obviously get to Jonathan Toews later, but I think I'm taking that over what the Winnipeg jets are rolling out with Scheifele, Lowry and Taves.

[Mark Lazarus]

All right, well, let's just go right to one of our questions. Was can the Rangers rebound? Let's just put that in right now since we're talking.

[Max Boltman]

I think yes. I think Mike Sullivan walks into a roster that is made to win right now and I think he will get him back into the playoffs.

[Mark Lazarus]

He's made to win. I mean, better be regressed. Adam Fox regressed. The power play was terrible. J.T. miller is your captain. I don't love the blue line beyond, you know what, Fox and Gavrikov, it's just a bunch of guys. I don't like a lot about this Rangers team. It's aging in all the wrong ways. Panarin is seems to be declining slightly. Zabanajad, is he still a guy? There's no star power on this team whatsoever outside of the goalie. And Adam Fox is not the player that he was a couple of years ago. I have deep concerns about this Rangers team.

[Max Boltman]

I will grant that I would take Josh Morrissey over Adam Fox, like head up in terms of your number one defenseman. But I think I'm also taking Gavrikov well before I'm taking the number two jets defense. But I think it's Dylan Sandberg and he's out for the first time six to eight weeks of this year. So honestly, I think that these two teams are remarkably similar. I'm surprised that you're surprised that they have the same odds.

[Mark Lazarus]

Well, I'm surprised just in the fact that one of them, one of these teams was the best team in the league last year and one of them missed the playoffs. Vegas, for all of its savviness, is usually not this ahead of the curve in anticipating one team making that big of a leap and one team taking that big of a decline. That's why I'm surprised.

[Max Boltman]

I think they're going to meet in the middle and they're both. I mean, I think Winnipeg will be maybe a little bit better than a wild card team. I think they'll be a 2 or 3 in the Central Division.

[Mark Lazarus]

I think it's a tough division. There's no doubt about the, the, the, the Central Division is so much more difficult than the Metro that you know you have 105 points and be in fourth place in the Central.

[Max Boltman]

That one doesn't surprise me. Do you, do you buy, I mean Mike Sullivan comes in, he's, he's one of the most respected coaches in hockey. Do you buy the kind of impact that, that he can have? I mean, usually we see the new coach bump more as a mid season thing, but I think it could happen at the start of the season for the Rangers.

[Jesse Granger]

It could.

[Mark Lazarus]

I mean we've seen it with previous Rangers coaches where they come in and then they last two years and then they're gone. I don't know if it makes that big a difference. Is he going to single handedly solve the power play? Is he going to bring lafrenier back to where he was two years ago when he was on the verge of stardom? I don't know how much you can do as a head coach with a veteran team like this. This isn't like a young team where he can mold it and reshape it. This is a pretty veteran team that's going to be kind of set in his ways. They should be better under Sullivan. He's an excellent coach, but I don't know if he's going to single handedly come in and completely change the complexion of this team.

[Max Boltman]

I think it's the right combination of. When you have veteran players who want to win, you bring in one of the most respected voices like in terms of presence. Like Mike Sullivan is going to command that room extremely well. He's the head coach of Team usa. He's won Stanley Cups. His word is going to carry a lot of weight in that room with a lot of players who are going to know what he's talking about. He's not going to have to teach hockey to these kids. He's not going to have to teach what it's like to be in the NHL to these Guys, they're going to know what it is, and I think they're going to be really motivated. You mentioned, like, J.T. miller is the captain. I know how it all went in Vancouver last year, but I think you bring a guy that fiery, that competitive into a locker room of players who they've kind of seen. This core of Rangers players has pretty much seen it both ways. They've seen fantastic success in getting to the conference final, and they've seen what it's like last year when everything goes awry. I think that they're going to be bought in, and I think they are going to get back to the playoffs. So that's my prediction for the Rangers. Peter Baught, you know, has been all over me whenever I've tried to hype up the Rangers the last couple years, and he's often been right.

[Mark Lazarus]

So Miller, the Miller of it all, is very interesting to me because he's such a different guy than Jacob Truba. For all of his big, you know, massive, bombastic hits on the ice. Truba is kind of a quiet guy, right. Where Miller is all like, you know, fire and brimstone in a lot of ways. So I'm curious to see how that lands with the new team. The Rangers are fascinating. The Rangers are always interesting. Give him this much. They're never boring. And this is another year where they could just be anything. And you tell me about these veterans who want to win. Where are these veterans who don't want to win? Max, explain these to me.

[Max Boltman]

That's not my point. My point is these veterans who. Who do want to win. I'm not. I'm not saying that there's all these veterans around the world who don't, but I'm saying you have this collection of guys who are like, all veterans. They all know what the clock is like. The Rangers have this assembly of guys, so it's like, you have to do this the next two or three years.

[Mark Lazarus]

Yeah, their biological clocks are ticking. I get that.

[Max Boltman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. That's the point I'm trying to make. I'm not saying that there's, you know, all these guys are on the league who could take it or leave it. They just want the. The Marriott points or whatever on the road, so.

[Mark Lazarus]

No, that's me. That's me.

[Max Boltman]

Yeah, exactly. Right. All right, well, let's take a quick break right there. We'll be back with more questions for the 2025, 26 season.

[BetterHelp Narrator]

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All.

[Max Boltman]

Right, we're back, Laz, and let's get into the player movement, or, I don't know, hypothesized player movement, wishcasted player movement portion of the program here. Everyone's going to be wondering two big questions this year around the NHL. Sidney Crosby finishing the season as a Pittsburgh Penguin. And is Connor McDavid finishing the season as an Edmonton Oiler? I'll let you pick which one we hit first.

[Mark Lazarus]

Let's start with Crosby, because I feel like that's. I don't know, it feels more realistic to me at this point that he could be traded, which is almost shocking to me that we've reached this point. But I feel like we've. We've gotten a little too precious about Sidney Crosby. Right? I mean, we've seen Bobby Orr as a Blackhawk, Mike Madonna as a Red Wing, Ray Bork as an Avalanche. Patrick Kane is a Ranger, Jonathan Toews is a Jet. We get, this is just what happens now. And I. I love the idea of a guy spending his whole career with one team. I really do. Like, I'm a Mets fan right now, and I'm dreading seeing Pete Alonso in a Yankees uniform next year. I'm going to be bashing my head against the wall when I see that. It's the worst. But I, frankly, rather see Sidney Crosby in the playoffs again than see him retire as a Penguin. And if he retires as a Penguin, we're never going to see him in the playoffs again. So I want to go to Montreal. Let's go have some fun, man.

[Max Boltman]

Yeah. So much of this comes back to the Pat Bresson comments that Pat gave to Pierre LeBrun. Bresson, obviously Crosby's agent. And I think that I know Crosby, in the wake of this, has talked about, like, look, I didn't ask him to say that. He didn't, you know, run that by me. I do think that Bresson had a really good point, though, Right. And whether it's a coordinated thing or not, I think is kind of beside the point. Common sense often wins out in these situations, right? And I think Bresson is right. Sidney Crosby should be on playoff teams. That's who he is. Sidney Crosby is a winner. Above all, like, when you talk about Sidney Crosby's legacy, there's going to be players who are better goal scorers than him. There's going to be players who are better playmakers than him. There are very few, if any, and I'm struggling to think of any Better winners in the history of the NHL than Sidney Crosby. And depriving the NHL of Crosby, every, everyone involved, all stakeholders of him in the playoffs is depressing.

[Mark Lazarus]

Yeah. And I think deep down, Crosby would never say it because he loves Pittsburgh. He's so loyal. One of the things people love about him is he's a genuine, loyal person. But deep down, he doesn't want to just play out the string. He's still a great player, right? He is still an elite top 10 player in the world. He should go somewhere and take advantage of that. He's not some like, old guy just clinging to the NHL. This guy is still great and he doesn't want to waste the rest of his career just for the sake of being a 1 uniform player. I think he would love to be if, you know, if he got traded, there would be tears. It would be really hard. That first practice would be bizarre and weird to him. And the first time the puck drops at the Bell center or wherever he goes at, you know, Ball arena in Colorado, wherever he is, and he feels that juice again, he's going to be like, yeah, I made the right call here. He deserves it. We deserve it. The hockey world deserves it.

[Max Boltman]

Right? So I said it's in everyone's best interest for Crosby to be back in the playoffs.

[Mark Lazarus]

Right?

[Max Boltman]

And the Pittsburgh Penguins are probably hearing that and their fans are probably hearing that and saying, right with us. So, like, quit trying to get us to trade him. Right? I want to ask you, do you think that that is, I guess, both possible and, and like realistic of the Pittsburgh Penguins to believe that they can get back with him? Or is this situation where to get back, you know, Crosby is going to keep them out of the bottom three, bottom five for sure. Like, they're going to have a hard time getting a Gavin McKenna as long as they have Sidney Crosby.

[Mark Lazarus]

Oh, they're getting Gavin McKenna. They are 100. It's been 20 every two decades. They get the best kid in the world. That's how it works. They got Lemieux and then they get Crosby and now they're getting McKenna. There's no doubt in my mind there's going to be a frozen ping pong ball with the Pittsburgh Penguins logo on. That is happening. But yeah, I mean, is that, is that beneficial to the Penguins? Is it good for the Penguins to have Crosby make them finish seven to last instead of second to last? Like, don't the Penguins benefit in the long run from trading him and getting, you know, a host of draft picks or prospects or something? Because there's not a lot of youth in that system. And I, I read the Penguins writers, and they're always like, oh, look at this guy that nobody's ever heard of. He could be a star someday. They're desperate. They're desperate for youth and hope in the future, and Sidney Crosby can provide that for him, for them, by being traded.

[Max Boltman]

In a sense, he can.

[Mark Lazarus]

Right.

[Max Boltman]

But, you know, Laz, you covered the Patrick Kane trade. Like, you don't get, for these guys, the Claude Giroux trade from the Flyers. Like, I think Crosby would get more than those guys did, partly because he's Sidney Crosby and partly because I think he's still got a little bit more juice in the, you know, gas in the tank than those guys did at the time. But, man, you really don't get what you should, and you certainly don't get, like, the legacy benefits of that and the idea that, you know, Sidney Crosby can bring some of these players along. Right. And I get what you're saying about Harrison Bernicke and Billy Koivan and not being, you know, true star prospects. Right. But I do think the Penguins are going to place a whole lot of value in having those guys learn from Sidney Crosby, of being able to have a Sidney Crosby statue, and he only was ever a penguin. And I don't know, I'm not saying that that erases the need to get talent, but I, I don't know that they're going to get enough talent to actually outweigh that.

[Mark Lazarus]

You're right. I mean, he's going to have full control. He's going to go where he wants to go, but there's going to be a bigger market for Sidney Crosby than there was. All due respect to Claude Drew and Patrick Kane, they, at that stage of their career, were not where, where Sidney Crosby still is and certainly don't have the stature. Sidney Crosby's top four all time. He is on Mount Rushmore. I think more, more people would agree with that than wouldn't.

[Max Boltman]

Oh, yeah.

[Mark Lazarus]

So even, even at his age, he's a better player now than those guys were at that stage of their career at younger, at a younger age. And he has much, much, much bigger name recognition, star power, respect, the, the what he brings to a locker room. I, I. Yes, you're not going to get full value in a Sidney Crosby trade. This is never going to happen. You're not going to get the next Sidney Crosby. Right. But the, the, the Penguins need to do something here and just clinging to these, this trio of guys just for the sake of clinging to them. It's not doing their fans any favors and it's not doing themselves any favors.

[Max Boltman]

All right, so we're trying to trade Crosby. Are we trying to trade McDavid or. I think he sticks in Edmonton, but I'm not saying it's for like an eight year deal, but I think he sticks in Edmonton for at least another couple of years.

[Mark Lazarus]

I want to see him reach free agency so badly. I think I'm team chaos all the way. It would be absolutely incredible to see a bidding war on the open market for maybe the single most talented hockey player that's ever lived in his prime. It'd be incredible. I just can't imagine it. Right. We know what he's going to do. He's going to wind up signing for two or three years, which is what, frankly, he should always be doing what all Stars should be doing, especially with the way the cap's going up right now. You should always be signing short term deals and betting on yourselves. And the fact is, like we talked about earlier in the show, the Oilers are still among the best teams in league. They still have as good a chance to win the Stanley cup as just about anybody. And the teams that can afford him right now probably aren't better than the Oilers, as bad as their goaltending situation might be. As frustrated as McDavid might be, the Oilers of the teams that could afford him are probably one of their best bets. Could he go to Dallas? Would he go to Dallas? I don't know, but chances are we're never going to get to see it. I think he signs a three year deal and he tells the Oilers, hey, tell Stan Bowman, build me a long term winner if you want me to stick around longer than that.

[Max Boltman]

You'd love them to go to Dallas and your predictions will finally be correct about the stars.

[Mark Lazarus]

They finally win the cup, it'll finally happen.

[Max Boltman]

I think you talked about being able to afford him. I think any team that, that has an inkling that it's an option will just do whatever it takes to afford them. Like they'll just give away one of their best players because they know they can go sign McDavid, basically.

[Jesse Granger]

Right.

[Max Boltman]

Like that's how that would work. I agree, though. I think a short term deal makes sense there. I would pay money actually to have been able to have a camera on Connor McDavid when he heard about Kirill Caprizev $17 million deal and just see the, the rush of emotions in both directions going on in his head.

[Mark Lazarus]

It's like a Cartoon character. There's just dollar signs in his eyeballs. His tongue rolls out of his mouth like the mask. Yeah. I mean, if Kirill Caprizov is a fabulous hockey player, but if he's worth $17 million, then McDavid's worth, what, 25? I mean, a lot.

[Max Boltman]

And would you take. If you're McDavid, and all of this is about, like, you know, winning and being able to put the right team around him, can you have that position and then go ask for 18 million or 20 million? Like, is that even really the smart thing to be doing?

[Mark Lazarus]

It's a tough spiritual situation to be in. Right. Because, you know, we talked about Sidney Crosby and Crosby kind of. He never got paid what he was worth. Right. He wanted his little 8 and 7 in there and, and he wanted to take less so that the team could win. And McDavid has said pretty much the same. I believe that, you know, he doesn't feel like the need to break the bank. He wants to make sure that the Oilers can win. He doesn't want to hamstring them. But there's an obligation to your fellow stars here, too. The cap is going way up. Salaries are going way up. What Kirill Kaprizov did, as crazy as it looks on the outside, is very good for other elite players in the NHL. They're starting to get paid the way athletes in other sports are starting to get paid. And we can argue all day about whether that's good for the health of the league and if this is going to lead to another lockout in five years or whatever. But the fact is, if Connor McDavid signs for 15 or 16 million dollars, there's going to be people that are mad at him. There's going to be other players, there's going to be agents that are mad at him, because if the rising tide lifts all boats, right, he's in an absolute no win situation when it comes to the size of that contract. If he signs too big, he's selfish. If he doesn't sign enough, he's selfish, he can't win.

[Max Boltman]

That's true. I think Connor McDavid and other star NHL players should be making more into that stratosphere, should be making 15 million-plus. But you have to always weigh it against what the cost is to your team. And that's an unfair position to put these athletes in. I, I don't like having to be the one to point that out because I don't think, you know, it should be Connor McDavid's responsibility to figure out how the Edmonton Oilers build a winner around him. But yet there is that trade off. Like if you do try to raise the bar above Caprizov, which by the way, he would be worth every penny of, he's fully deserving of it. It does make it a little bit harder to build out the rest of the roster, especially when you already have, you know, in Draisaitl Steel, by the way. Now it looks like the steal of the century in this new landscape. So maybe that's how you make it work. But.

[Mark Lazarus]

And this only happens in hockey, right? Because baseball, there's no salary cap. Basketball, there's like, from what I understand, there's slots. Like you can sign a max contract and it's predetermined. And in football, guys restructure their contracts when things aren't going well if they want to help the team out. You can't do any of that in hockey. It's a hard cap world and it's unique in that way, in that, you know, the more you take, the harder it is to win. It's just a, you know, it's a zero sum game in the NHL and it's unfair. It's an unfair burden to put on these players. But, you know, Connor McDavid is thinking about it and he's thinking about the optics of it. Whatever he does, it's not good. And that's a tough spot to be in.

[Max Boltman]

So I guess from that lens, how many thank you cards did Jackson Lacombe get from the nhlpa?

[Mark Lazarus]

Jackson Lacombe. Jackson Lacombe is making the same amount of money as Cale Makar. He's. Caprisov is making $5 million more than Miko Rantanen. This is, look, it's going to be, it's going to be wacky stuff here the next few years until this kind of course corrects and everyone reaches that next contract is if Jackson Lacombe, real nice young player.

[Max Boltman]

Exactly. Really good player. I think that deal is going to age just fine.

[Mark Lazarus]

It might. That's what teams are doing, right? They're like, this guy is going to be a $15 million player in three years. So why don't we just throw all this money at him now, shock and awe him and get him locked up long term. Because if Jackson Lacombe is worth $9 million, what is calm, a car going to get in two years? 20 probably right. He's the second best player on the planet in a lot of people's minds.

[Max Boltman]

Red Wings highest paid player is Dylan Larkin at $8.7 million. So a year ago they extended Lucas, Raymond and Moritz both on long term deals. Cider for seven years, Raymond for eight. In the eight to eight and a half million dollar range. Right. One year later they are just phenomenal steals. And that was after going right up to the doorstep of their highest paid player. And you're going to see a bunch of the contracts that were signed between 2022 and 2025, that age, just like that. It's going to be fascinating.

[Mark Lazarus]

We're going to have to get past that whole thing where it's like, well this is our biggest star player so nobody on the team can make more than that. These guys are going to have to put their egos aside and understand that the financial landscape of this league has shifted dramatically and it's going to be years until a course corrects. You know, Dylan Larkin should not be the highest paid player on the Red Wings two years from now. Like that's a problem if he is. That means that the Red Wings are being too precious about this. And these guys are going to have to kind of, you know, just accept the fact that their timing was bad, they signed contracts at the wrong time and they didn't cash in and that's life. And if they still play, if they remain at the top of their games, they'll get rewarded at in the end of it.

[Max Boltman]

And that's your point about the short term deals for the star. I mean in the NFL, whoever the the most recent quarterback to get paid becomes pretty much the highest paid player in the league because the cap's always going up.

[Mark Lazarus]

Don't sign for eight years. Don't do it. It's a trap. It's what the billionaires want.

[Max Boltman]

I just like if my bosses are listening to know that I would sign for eight years. So go ahead and just that over.

[Mark Lazarus]

Especially for $17 million a year.

[Max Boltman]

That's right. We got Jesse waiting for us here but I want to hit you with one more before we get to him. Habs and sends two great stories last year. Two rebuilding teams. The sends longer than the Habs but both rebuilding teams that broke through that make the play playoffs. Which one are you buying or both? Are you buying both or are you buying neither? Repeating it in 2026.

[Mark Lazarus]

All right, between the two I'm higher on Montreal than I am on Ottawa. But I have concerns about this. This is what I keep coming back to. A lot of people, a lot of you people seem to think the Rangers are going to be playoff team this year. Right? All right, well who's Falling out. Columbus thinks it has a chance to make the playoffs. Detroit thinks this could be finally the year. Buffalo has still has hope. The Islanders think that they can come back and get back in the playoffs. Who's coming out? Not Toronto, not Tampa, not Carolina, not Jersey. Washington might regress a little bit, but they're not going from the top seed to out of the playoffs. The Panthers are still going to make the playoffs in my mind. So who's falling out? It's most likely Ottawa and or Montreal. Right? Just because of the sheer volume of better teams ahead of them. Like they took big steps last year, but that one step. Progress isn't always linear. You take that step into the playoffs, it doesn't mean you're getting back in for the next decade. Here I have concerns about both those teams.

[Max Boltman]

As a result, you make a really good point about the numbers game in the east, and I think that both of them are vulnerable. I even wonder if Toronto is a little bit vulnerable after losing Marner. Although I think, you know, if Anthony Stolars can be what he was when healthy for 50, 55 games, that would help a lot. But that's an open question, right? So I think those are all vulnerable teams in the Atlantic. I think between these two, I'm buying the Senators slightly more. I think Montreal and the young talent on the way is really hard not to like.

[Jesse Granger]

Right?

[Max Boltman]

I mean Lane Hudson was fantastic last year. They may have repeat Calder winners because Ivan Demidov is going to be the Calder favorite this year. You bring in Noah Dobson to that mix.

[Jesse Granger]

Right.

[Max Boltman]

Like there, there is a lot of reasons to like the Canadians. And yet I also can't help feeling like the second, you know, post Four nations stretch last year for them was a little too magic carpet ride. Like a lot of stuff went right. They were extremely healthy. Nick Suzuki was one of not just one of like the 10 best. I mean he was not just one of the best, best centers in the HL, one of like the 10 best centers in the NHL. After the Four nations break, I don't know that I see him there like over a full season and he's a really good player. He's a 1C all day, but like 90 points over a full season. Again, I, I, I think it would be really hard for me to see him repeating it and Sam Montembo being as good as he was. We don't know what, what does Dobson look like if he's not power play one and Hudson is right. Like some of these things I think are a little bit harder Now, Montreal is still really talented, and the talent may overcome all of it, but I think Ottawa's was maybe just like a little more repeatable the way Ottawa did it.

[Mark Lazarus]

You're forgetting about Sidney Crosby. Montreal, Canadian from.

[Max Boltman]

Well, if that happens, I take it all back. How about that?

[Mark Lazarus]

No, I'm all for new blood in the league. I want to see Buffalo make that leap. Finally, Detroit would be. I want to see a playoff game at Little Caesars Arena. I love it when the Islanders get in because it pisses everybody off because everybody hates them so ugly when they play. I love that. Like, I want to see new blood into the playoffs. I just don't know who's fallen off. There's the. The teams that are in, that are locked in, they're just models of consistency at this point. It's hard to imagine. I want to see Columbus get in. I just don't know how the math shakes out. I feel like, you know, we talked about how the west is so much better, and I do think it is, but, like, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 in the west is different than 6, 7, 8, 9,. That's where the east strength is.

[Max Boltman]

Do you feel the same way about Carolina that you know about the Islanders? Because that's always something that I can't figure out about myself. I feel the exact same way when the Islanders are in and everyone's whining on Twitter, don't let them advance. They're so boring. I'm like, oh, yeah, now I like them more. But I don't feel that way about Carolina. Carolina. I'm like, yeah, no, I agree. It's kind of boring.

[Mark Lazarus]

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. As a native Long Islander, I used to be an Islander fan, I think. Yeah. I think I take special pleasure in people hating on people from Long Island. Like, you know, like, watching the Ryder Cup, I wasn't really proud of my brethren, but it was also really funny. So I think I take a little special, special joy in that. The Hurricane. I don't find the Hurricanes as ugly and boring as other people do. They're a little repetitive to watch sometimes, but I kind of admire how they. That. That Rod Brindamore stick to it is they do this no matter what.

[Max Boltman]

Oh, I admire. I'm just saying I have a harder time, like, getting swept up in this.

[BetterHelp Narrator]

Them.

[Max Boltman]

Right. Like. Like.

[Mark Lazarus]

Yeah, no, I agree with that. I think that's just because they've been better, too. Right. They're just. They're like legitimate contenders everywhere. The Islanders spiked those two Final four appearances, but nobody ever mistook them for a true contender. They're, they're kind of this scrappy underdog that just is like beating people up on the way into an eight seed. I take, I, I enjoy that a lot.

[Max Boltman]

That's right. It's the underdog of it all. That's exactly what it is. All right, let's take a quick break right there. We'll be back with Jesse Granger for Granger Things. Hi, this is Joe from Vanta. In today's digital world, compliance regulations are changing constantly. And earning customer trust has never mattered more. Vanta helps companies get compliant fast and stay secure with the most advanced AI automation and continuous monitoring out there. So whether you're a startup going for your first SoC2 or ISO 27001 or a growing enterprise managing vendor risk, Vanta makes it quick, easy and scalable. And I'm not just saying that because I work here.

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[Max Boltman]

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[Mark Lazarus]

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[Max Boltman]

All right, we're back and let's bring in now Jesse Granger. And Jesse, we've been going through some of our biggest questions today ahead of the 2025, 2026 NHL season. And we got a couple goalie ones that I want to hit you with. Not to pigeonhole you too much, but I think we've, we've brought you in pretty much every time we want to talk about Connor Hellebuck here. So here's one of our questions for you. Will Connor Hellebuk win the Vesna again? And will we remember that he Won it because he didn't have a good playoff again.

[Jesse Granger]

I mean, I didn't think he was going to do what he did in these playoffs this last time. I was the one kind of championing the fact that he's playing better than he ever has and he's going to get over that hump. So it's to be seen. But I will say this. If I'm looking, if I'm a Jets fan and I'm rooting for Connor Hellebuck to lead this team to a Stanley cup, to me, this is the optimism. This is where you can find optimism. There was this famous quote that he said during the playoffs. Nobody has watched more goaltending, nobody's researched goaltending more than I have. And he's right.

[Mark Lazarus]

And he was.

[Jesse Granger]

He was kind of clowned for saying that. And it wasn't the best time to maybe bring it up, but this guy researches and thinks about the way he plays more than any athlete I've ever spoken to. And I think he learned some things in those playoffs. I've. I've spoken to some people that work with Conor Hellebuyck. That said, even, like, even they will admit, like, yes, he was a little rattled. He started getting off his game. He started trying to change things in his game. He thought, this isn't working. It's two years in a row now that the playoffs, it's not working for me. Let me change my game. Let me try to do something different. It wasn't working. It didn't work. It made it worse. I do think he learned some things in that playoff run that he's going to take. And I assume Winnipeg is going to be a playoff team because he's good and they're good. I expect Connor Hellebuk to have learned some things. I think he's going to enter the next time he enters the playoffs. I think he's going to do it with a different mindset of maybe I don't need to think so much. Just let my play, just let my kind of body react. Let my plane, my body go on autopilot and let it do the things that I'm so good at doing that he does all season long without thinking about it. I really do think that there were some encouraging signs. You look at the way he played in the second round, it was much better. He wasn't his brilliant self, but he was much better. And I do think that he's going to look back on this, and I think that when he lost to Colorado, it seemed like he kind of just like was, like, that wasn't. I played fine. They just found ways to score on me. I think this time, the way it happened with St. Louis, how bad it was, I think he actually is going to look inward and say, you know what? I actually, there is something wrong. I'm not playing well in the playoffs. I have to approach this differently than I have in the past. And I think that there is reason for optimism that he actually will play the way he can when the games matter.

[Mark Lazarus]

What is it about his mental makeup, you know him better than we do. That makes you think that this won't affect him? Because when this happens to players two years in a row like this, no matter whether they're, you know, world class or not, it stays with them, it gets in their heads and it affects their play on the ice. What is it about Conor Hellebuyck that makes you think that he can bounce back from doing this two straight years?

[Jesse Granger]

Because he's so interested in the process, like, the process of it. Like, he's not as interested in the results. And like we. You. I mean, you're in locker rooms every day, we hear these guys talk about this. This is such a hockey player thing of like, the process, the process. But it's. It's not easy to do, to focus on the process. And like, I think back to Mara Attesh and I did a big story on Conor Hellebuk two years ago, and we talked to his father and we talked to a bunch of people that he grew up with. And like a lot of them, his dad talked about how, like, when Connor was a young kid, he was saying, like, yeah, my goalie coach is trying to get me to do this, but I don't want to do that. I'm watching the guys in the NHL and I want to be the big boring goalie. Like, that's, that's what I want to be is the big boring guy who doesn't move around. And like, sure enough, that's exactly what he became. He's the guy that reads the play better than anyone. He uses his 6 foot 6 frame to get in the way. I think he thinks about things differently than any other human I've ever spoken to. And the way he focuses on the process, I think that can help him in terms of going into the playoffs. If he's doing his process right, I think that can help his mind in terms of not focused on what the past results were. And, and as long as I do my process the same way. Whereas I think in this last playoffs I think he got rattled. I think he changed his process and he thought, what I'm doing isn't working. I need to do something different. And that was the worst thing he could have done.

[Mark Lazarus]

Will we see Winnipeg lean on him a little less in the regular season? Maybe. Is there. Will there be some kind of shakeup and just how they approach him just to make sure he's at his best in the spring?

[Jesse Granger]

That's a super interesting question. I would love for them to do that. It's. The funny thing is, if there was a season where they could have done that, it was probably last season because they ran out to such a big lead and they were, like, cruising to the President's Trophy. So we don't know how this season is going to play out. They may have to lean on him more just to get to the playoffs. You never know. But I do think. I mean, they didn't change anything behind him. Eric Comrie is still their backup. He's not the most talented backup in the league, but he is a veteran guy that they can kind of like. You don't. You're not afraid to put Eric Comrie in the net during the regular season and have him get you some wins. So, yes, I. If it was me, I would be looking to get him less starts. We'll see if that's feasible or not, because like I said, if you're. If you're chasing the playoff spot, what are you going to do? You're going to play Connor Hellebuck every night.

[Max Boltman]

I think the key is what you said in your very first answer, though. I mean, it's great to do all this research and think about goaltending as much as possible. The more you think, the less you're reacting. I think that that may even be an origin to some of this. So I think that's really interesting. Let's stay with Winnipeg here and go to something that's not a goalie. And maybe last, I'm going to start with you here because you know Jonathan Taze as well as certainly anyone on this podcast. When I heard he was coming back to Winnipeg, I thought it was a really good story, and I thought he could contribute in, like, a depth role, be a veteran leader. Is he going to be their number two center? Like, are you buying that that is a viable path here?

[Mark Lazarus]

Winnipeg seems to be right. Like, that's their goal, is to have him be their number two center. And it just. Look, I want to see Jonathan Toews succeed. I think he's the most interesting guy in the League this year, the ceiling is so high and the floor is so unbelievably low. We don't know how he's going to look, how he's going to handle the grind. Right. Because with his health issues, his chronic health issues, Long Covid, chronic inflammatory syndrome, all these things he's got, it's the recovery that's going to be the most difficult part. His last season in Chicago a couple years ago, he couldn't work out. He gained a lot of weight because he couldn't work out because his body couldn't recover from the rigors of the game. So how are you going to be playing 15 to 18 minutes a night as a number two center if you can't recover now? Hopefully he's better now, but these are chronic conditions. They don't just go away. So, you know, I've talked to Marat a lot in Winnipeg about this. I'm very interested to see how it goes. It looks like he, his hands are still there, his brain is obviously still there and he can get to. He's not that he's never been the fastest skater. He can still get to those spots. The question to me is how is he going to be able to handle playing three or four games in a week? How is he going to be able to handle back to backs? Does he need special NBA style load management to survive? Because I could see him winning a Stanley cup this year and I could see him not even making it to that first game against Chicago on October 30th. The range of outcomes for Jonathan Toews is almost limitless. It's by, to me, the most fascinating story in the league.

[Max Boltman]

See, I have a really hard time seeing the top end of that range though. You say he could win the Stanley Cup. That's really hard for me to imagine. He's already got a tweak in the pace preseason.

[Mark Lazarus]

Well, Connor, hello. Bucks is goalie, I understand. Yeah, well.

[Max Boltman]

Well, for one, Winnipeg did have a tough off season like losing Nick Ehlers. And now, you know, Dylan Samberg's gonna be out six to eight, I think I read. Yeah, Adam Lowry's gonna miss the early part of the season. Like they need Jonathan Toews right away to be good. There is an example of a player who has been out of the league for a couple years coming back. It's a recent example, it's a high profile example and being good, and that was Gabriel Landiscog in the last year's playoffs. The difference there, and I don't know that we can overstate this is five years like Gabe Landiscog at 32. That's old for a hockey player for, for a top six hockey player at this point. Crazy. I don't like saying that I'm 30. Right. 37 is a different ball game, Jesse.

[Jesse Granger]

Yeah, for sure. And, and I think like to tie these two conversations with Hellebuck and the jets and Taves with the Jets, I think I'm fascinated in what Mark was talking about of maybe load management and maybe don't make him the most important player during the regular season and like let it because I think that part of the issue with Hellebuck in the playoffs isn't just himself, it's the way the jets play. I like my, my goalie tier story comes out today actually. And one of the big things that a lot of the goalie coaches talked about when I asked him about Connor Hellebuck and his playoff struggles was I the jets are overrated. Like I think that people think the jets are better than they are and then they get to the playoffs and they play and they win so many games during the regular season because there's a lot of bad teams in the NHL combined with the fact that Hellebock's so consistent they get this inflated record. But the truth is they don't play that well against the best teams and they don't play the type of playoff hockey where you have to be strong in front of your net. A lot of these goals that are going on on Connor Hellebuck are screens and deflections. And it's just the jets aren't playing playoff hockey as well as they need to to win, even if their goalie was playing well. And to me, Taves, yes, they lost some stuff, but they add Jonathan Toews. I think he could be the difference on this team if they, they can manage him and keep him healthy. He knows how to win playoff hockey. Like I think he could be a super valuable asset to this team that can. And again, if you can just get guys to clear the front of the net a little better, Connor Hellebuck starts feeling good. You Mark jokes he can't win the Stanley cup because Hellebox is goalie. But if you get Connor Hellebuk to play him to his peak in the, in the playoffs, you're going to win a Stanley cup because he's your goalie. So it's like if, if Taves can bring that playoff like hockey to this team and, and give them something in the playoffs, I think it's, he has a chance to, to Make a huge difference.

[Mark Lazarus]

Like Mark said, we have only seen Jonathan Toews in the playoffs one time since 2017, and that was during the COVID playoffs. That's how bad the Blackhawks were for all these years. And Jonathan taze, he was 32 at the time, 33 maybe. He looked like old school. Jonathan Taves, he had a huge game in the one that. When they knocked out the Oilers in the first round, the, the, whatever they call it, the preliminary round, Jonathan Taze was the biggest reason why he does know how to win. That said, by the end of that Vegas series, the first full round of that, he was on the bench unable to move his legs. He literally, he was like hoping that Jeremy Collinson wouldn't call his name because he wasn't sure if he could make it over the boards. This is what he's been dealing with for five years now. So I get, yes, he can play playoff hockey. He does play that heavy style that succeeds in the playoffs. He is, he's a Con Smythe winner for a reason. He's one of the all time clutch players. He's a great leader, all of those things. I just don't know how his body will hold up. He doesn't know how his body will hold up. You can train all you want in the off season and feel great entering the season. How will you feel in mid December after game 30 something? That's, that's the only question I have, right?

[Max Boltman]

And when I say that I have a hard time seeing the upper end of the outcome like that's, that's part of it. It's not. Jonathan Toews, the competitor is a legend. He's amazing. Endless respect for what he brings, you know, to a playoff, to a team, to a playoff series, all those things. The issue I think is can you ask him to do that in such a prominent role? Can you ask him to not just be on your second line, drive your second line based on how they're constructed? I think even if Adam Lowry, if his line can elevate and maybe be the number two line in terms of minutes and Taves lines, I like him much more as a number three on a playoff team, then I can just work myself into believing that a 37 year old who hasn't played in the league in two years can drive a top six line for a team right now, that's what they would be asking him to do. So I think it's hard.

[Mark Lazarus]

Fully agree. If he's their third or fourth line center, it'll work. If he's their Second line, center. I don't think it will.

[Max Boltman]

Yeah. All right, Jesse, you're in Vegas, so I think you're the perfect one to field this one. And it's obviously it's a sensitive one as we talk about some of these Hockey Canada guys that may or may not come back into the league. Now after this trial has ended up. Do you think that Vegas is going to sign Carter Hart? I think that they're the team that everyone's watching.

[Jesse Granger]

Yeah, I do. At this point, it's, it's all signs point to them and that's a lot of that is reporting by our own Chris Johnston. It seems like they're very close. Wouldn't surprise me if a deal is announced, any or not announced. But if a deal is. Is agreed upon anytime soon, obviously can't sign until October 15th. So I don't expect the team to announce it until then.

[Mark Lazarus]

I.

[Jesse Granger]

This team will not announce, I'll put it this way, not expect this team will not announce it until it's official because that's how the Golden Knights are and I don't see why they would want to go through this PR twice instead of just once when they sign him on October 15th. So yes, I do think there's a very good chance the Golden Knights sign Carter Hart. How it goes is. I'm not nearly as certain that is going to be fascinating to watch. Like you said, there's a lot of non hockey stuff to this, but even just the hockey stuff itself, incredibly complicated. This is a guy who hasn't played hockey in two years. I think at a position that it's probably the hardest to come back from. Like it that every. You talk to a goalie who misses two weeks with an injury and he comes back and you're like how.

[Max Boltman]

How was practice?

[Jesse Granger]

Well, it's hard to get back to the speed of things and then he gets back into a game and it's like, well, practice was good but now I have to get used to the speed of things in a game and, and reading plays and all this stuff. And Carter Hart, it was not a particularly great reader of the play. Like when I, when I watched him at his best in Philadelphia, I thought he was more of a goalie who relied on athleticism, relied on kind of hand eye coordination, not so much reading the play. So it's going to be super interesting assuming he does sign with someone, how the hockey stuff goes. And obviously that's not even the most complicated part of it. But, but even that part, there's still a lot of Moving parts, and we'll see how he ends up playing. There's also the fact that he didn't play that well towards the end of, like, the. The last couple years that he was playing in Philadelphia, even before time off. So, yeah, it's. It's there. It's a risky move in a. In a lot of different ways.

[Mark Lazarus]

That. That's what I wanted to get at here. Like, sitting aside everything else. Like, why would this guy of all guys, be worth the inevitable PR hit that you're going to take the fans, you're going to alienate. He wasn't. He was a subpar goalie his last year. He was, you know, he came out, he had this great pedigree. I think he was a. He was a high pick and he had two really good years coming out, and then he was a mediocre at best goalie the last handful of years in Philadelphia. Is. Is he that much better than Akira Schmidt, who currently is the backup to Aiden Hill?

[Jesse Granger]

I don't think he is, but the Golden Knights clearly do. If they're willing to go through this PR of what they're going to go through to sign him, they clearly do believe he's an upgrade. Akira Schmidt wasn't great last season. He. They traded for him from New Jersey. He came over. He played almost the entire season in the AHL for the Henderson Silver Knights. And I mean to stick up for Akira Schmidt a little bit. The Gold. The Silver Knights were one of, if not the worst teams in the entire ahl. They were a disaster, so they weren't helping him a lot. But he was really, really bad in the hl. He lost his job to Carl Lindbaum, a much younger goalie with less experience, basically in his first pro season in North America. And he ended up becoming the Silver Knight starter by the end of the year. Akira Schmidt, at the end of the NHL season, he gets called up, he plays a couple games. He had like a.940 save percentage in those two games, so he looked good. But there is reason to be concerned about Akira Schmidt. But it's not even just him versus Carhartt. To me, like, I look at waivers and like last night, on waivers, I mean, there are good goalies. Michael DiPietro in Boston got waived. Nico Dawes in New Jersey. Capo Kakonen got waved from Montreal. Clay Stevenson got waived from Washington. He is a guy that, if you're listening out there and you've never heard of Clay Stevenson, I think by the end of this NHL season, you'll know who Clay Stevenson is, he is the third goalie in Washington who has been kept in the ahl and store, he's been dominating down there. The Capitals don't have room for him up there because they've got two good NHL goalies. This is the first time they've ever had to put him through waivers. He's never had to go through waivers before. I would not be surprised if he gets claimed and I wouldn't be surprised if he's a really good goalie in the NHL. So it's there, there's a handful of veteran goalies that are good out there that are good bets to be a good backup. And if you're going to sign Carter Hart, you have to clearly believe that he is not just better than those guys, but without a doubt, like, like that's a different tier of goalie that you think you're getting. So it's going to be interesting to see how it works out. It's like I said, it's risky and, and, and there are other moves that maybe seem like they would be less risk with the same type of reward. But if, if you really believe Carter Hart, I mean he was, he was a high draft pick. He is an athletic kid. He makes some insane saves. I will say that, like, if you go through like every goal in the NHL and you take the, the top 10 most impressive looking saves they've ever made, Carter Hart stack up with any goalie in the league, like he makes some ridiculous acrobatic saves. It's going to be interesting to see how his consistency level is after all this time off.

[Max Boltman]

And by the way, I know we have some new audience here on YouTube. For those who have not listened to our show much before, when Jesse throws a dart at a goalie at this time of year, it's usually something you want to pay attention to if you want to go back and check out what it was a year ago. So pretty good track record here. Jesse, thanks so much. That is going to do it for us today. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Athletic Hockey Show. Please, if you're enjoying the show, leave us a five star rating and a review. Frankie Corrado will be back with you on Wednesday between two Sean's Gentile McIndoo. We'll see you then.

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