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- [01:39]
This is the athletic hockey show prospect series.
- [01:54]
Hey everybody, Max Boltman here alongside the Athletics Corey Prominence, Scott Wheeler and Flo Hockey Chris Peters for another episode of the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. Today is our Olympic Depth chart debate episode. Guys, so similar to what we did on the World Juniors two weeks ago, we're going to talk about we came prepared with a 15 forward, 8 defense, 3 goalie list of how we would rank Team USA Team Canada. And we're going to kind of simulate a roster debate here from a management team. So starting right off the top with Canada, there's obviously a lot of consensus and it helps that we had the four nations tournament, we had a starting place, so no surprise to Anyone that Nathan McKinnon, Conor McDavid, Sydney Crosby, Sam Reinhardt, Mitch Marner, Braden Point are in everyone's top nine. Another guy though who is in everyone's top nine is Macklin Celebrini. And I wonder, Corey, are we at the place now where we can call Celebrini a lock? Which is not something I thought we'd be saying with our chests out on December 3rd a month ago?
- [02:52]
E
Yes, I think unquestionably yes. He's a lock. He's one of the league's offensive leaders. He has a well rounded game. He's able to, he's a top end skater, top end competitor. I think he's going to be one of their most important players.
- [03:07]
B
Yeah, it felt like coming into the year that that was going to be a debate. It's. Can you get Macklin Celebrini onto this roster? The number of us that had Celebrini on the first or second line here. And I know it's not necessarily true lines, although I did mine that way a little bit. I wanted to kind of match out. But you know, Scott, I mean, it just seems like everyone feels so confident in the complete game of celebrity that you can play him big minutes at a tournament like this.
- [03:29]
C
Yeah. And I think to add to Corey's case, the World Championships I think helped him too. The fact that he performed at the World Championships for Hockey Canada, that they felt that they had built some chemistry with Sidney Crosby or whoever else. I think that matters. He's been involved with them. He's not coming in fresh in the way that a Conor Bedard would be coming in a little bit more fresh to, to, to sort of return to Hockey Canada after the world. Jun.
- [03:58]
So it's, I guess he was sparsely used at a men's World Championships, but no, it's, it's, it feels to me like an inevitability at this point and I think that speaks to everything Corey said, but also just to what he's accomplished at an early age here. Like it just, it's beyond reproach at this point. Like it's, it's, it's locked in.
- [04:22]
B
Not quite as high on everyone's list, but two more guys that were unanimous that were not on the four nations team. For all of us, more Mark Scheifele and Nick Suzuki and Chris, I think Scheifele in particular is a guy who the first half of this year has really, it's a hard case to argue against. I think what Mark Schaeffele has put on tape over the last three months.
- [04:40]
D
Yeah, I think that's accurate. You know, I mean, I think there's a lot of things that he brings to the table that certainly Team Canada is going to be able to use. You know, I think that he's, he's got, you know, improved two way capabilities on top of, you know, the offensive attack that he's able to provide. I think like if you're looking at building, you know, a third line kind of situation, a Player like that goes a long way for you. And so, you know, I think that there's, there's a lot to like about what Scheifele can potentially bring to the, to the table. And you know, I just think, yeah, he's put himself in a position, a much better position at this point to be part of this team based on, you know, what we've seen over the last little while.
- [05:22]
B
Yeah, yeah. And Suzuki, I think was maybe the most impressive player down the stretch last year among the cuts. He picked up right where he left off too. And so he's, he's put himself in a very good spot. He's everybody's 4C.
- [05:33]
C
Scott Suzuki deserves it. Frankly, I, I think Suzuki there, I think there was a little bit of politics at play in, in sort of the way that things went down at Four Nations. All of the talk about him not going to men's worlds and not being a regular participant in Hockey Canada's programming, but I think he's just, he just deserves to be on the team. You start to look at some of the players that could be subtracted from last year's team, whether it's Travis Konneckney or you go down the list. He's just a better, more impactful player. He plays a premium position. He can play center. He can check. I think him and Seth Jarvis both check at among the highest levels on this of those who are capable of sort of being a part of the bottom six for this Team Canada. He can play with anybody. It. There, there's, there. I don't think there's much of a reason at this stage, barring politics, to, to keep Suzuki off and to, to add on Scheifele. I, I, the one thing I, I thought about a lot with Scheifelee and I included him on my roster as well, is that this Team Canada up front isn't all that big and Scheifely isn't the hardest player. But Bedard, Marner, Suzuki, Sorelli, Jarvis, like there's a lot of 5, 11, 6 foot types on this team. And I think the, I think it matters that shite flea is 6, 3 and 215, 220 pounds. Like I do think that's an element that Canada actually needs a little bit more of, especially when you match them side by side what Team USA is going to look like up front.
- [07:01]
B
All right, so those are our consensuses up front. There's plenty of debate still to be had, even if it's not so much for, you know, who's on or off. Although we do have a couple of those bubble things that we're going to get into shortly. But also how you use guys and when you have an all star team like this, Corey, there's always going to be who do you want to use uses a center when you know, realistically a bunch of these guys can play center for you. I think that really starts at the 3C debate. And you know, Chris has Sidney Crosby there, I have Anthony Cirelli, Corey and Scott have Braden Point. So Corey, why don't you kick us off here? Like how did you approach this? Why. Why do you have Braden point as a 3C and you could use him so many different ways.
- [07:38]
E
Yeah, I think first you go through the players, you determine who fits in this group on talent, and then to take it from there, then you have to figure out who's the best fit at center. I think the point with his two way play, his skating, his, his competitiveness, and to go with his skill, I thought of the players that I put on this top 15, I thought he was the one most deserving of the 3C slot. That being said, I think right after I made this roster, I think Sorelli went on an absolute terror. And maybe I'm a little harsh leaving him off the roster. I'm guessing he won't be left off when it's all said and done, given just how well he's played lately. But that was the argument for me there. Like, I think McDavid Crosby are the top two Cs. I'd have a hard time getting either them out of the, the top two center spots. The only thing I don't like about how this ends up is the, with Crosby Point Suzuki, I guess less cross because he's just so hard working with. I don't love the idea of Point Suzuki being both like 5, 10, 511 centers in your bottom six. But I think that's just the roster and you still got to take the best players and they have capabilities of playing hard minutes, defensive minutes, killing penalties, playing competitive style hockey. And that was my lean.
- [08:52]
B
I took it as point on that third line, but I put Sorelli in the middle and I left all three Tampa guys together. So I've got Hagel, Sorelli and Point on a line that I think John Cooper, if you put him a tense situation, that's a line he's going to feel really good about. They have natural chemistry. I think that really matters at a tournament like this is, you know, whether they have familiarity with the coach or not, they have familiarity with each other.
- [09:11]
C
Scott.
- [09:13]
I do wonder if we might get a little bit carried away by that. Like the Taves, Devin Taves, Kale Makar pairing and the Tampa guys like you. These are the best players in the world. They can play with each other. They can figure it out. There's, there's something to be said for chemistry in a short period, but I don't know that that has to be the starting point or the knee jerk. Maybe it's something you go to in a pinch. Maybe it's something if the line isn't working that you go to in a pinch. But I think you have to start by building lines that, that just work now maybe that maybe that is that Hegel and Sorelli and. And point are. Are together. But I think there that doesn't ne. That wouldn't be. If I'm sitting in that room, that wouldn't be my starting point necessarily.
- [09:57]
E
And I think it's tough that in order to get those three Tampa guys together, if you look at Max's depth chart, you have to take one of Mark Stone or Connor Bedard or Scheifele out of the top nine. And I would probably wager, I would wager I'd want one of those guys on pure talent ahead of one of those three players, which is fair.
- [10:21]
B
And you know, you talk about Stone like there's a handful of Team Canada guys here that were on the four nations roster, a gold medal winning roster that are very much on the bubble. Sam Bennett guys is not on any of these rosters. Mark Stone and Brad Marchand, like it's kind of hit or miss how people have them, how high up they have them. I was the only guy that had Travis Kynekney on, on my roster among this group. So there is a real bubble here. And for me and Chris, you could probably speak to this like where I tried to break the ties is I think this is a tournament that's going to come down to a lot of pace. This was fast hockey, this was tight hockey. Like I look at Brad Marchand who's having an amazing year and if he doesn't have the pace, then I at least need something else. And for me, that was Mark Stone with the size, with the defensive stick. But you can hem and haw that a lot of different ways with this group of guys that are on the bubble, someone has to come out. If we're all for all putting celebrity, if we're all putting Suzuki, if we're all putting Shifely, and if we're all putting Connor Bedard in two, three, four of these guys are coming off.
- [11:18]
D
Yeah. You know, and if the arena is as short as it's going to be, I don't know, necessar like is pace going to matter in a, in a smaller surface as much as heaviness? I, I mean that's, that's going to be the real question I think they're talking about right now is, you know, there's no room to move already, so how do you combat that? And I think, you know, there's going to be mixed opinions on that. I think USA is pretty clearly going with heavy and Canada can counter that however they want to, either heavy on heavy or with speed, you know, and, and that's why a reason that I have, you know, a Brad Marchand on my roster and in on my depth chart just because I think that he is going to give you some of those little extra things while still being able to contribute offensively and having a recent Stanley cup performance in his back pocket. You know, I think that you need somebody that's going to needle the opposition a little bit and he can do that where you still are. You're not giving away a ton on skill. But you know, to when we were talking about Scheifele, the size factor is really intriguing here as we look at can. You know, my depth chart, anybody's depth chart is that you are kind of struggling to find that size and obviously Brad Marchand doesn't help you in that department either. So, you know, there's a lot of different things that kind of are going to be decided. But if this is a smaller ice surface, I do think that there is going to be an emphasis on some of that heavy hockey and that does open the door, I feel like more widely for a Mark Stone who wasn't on my list. But you know, the more you think about it, the more maybe he makes sense there.
- [12:59]
E
Yeah, he makes sense a lot for me in that third line rule. I, I just think he offers too much to that group and I think what he's been healthy. The big issue for them has been health. But if he's healthy, I think the skill compete combination there will be really exciting. What I don't get in this Team Canada bait is all the Tom Wilson stuff I've heard discussed. Chris probably could talk to this more than I have. He's covered more double edge of turns than me if there's so many guys in the mix. And I understand that that USA Canada game is going to be really physical and really intense. But I Don't think Tom Wilson is the kind of guy who double IHF refs are gonna look favorably on. And I think he's a guy that could easily get Canada into penalty trouble in a medal round game.
- [13:41]
C
Aren't they using NHL refs?
- [13:44]
D
They are, they are. But I would say that the, the standard, like the penalties are different. So like the, the, the contact to the head is automatic. Like if you have that, you could lose a player for the game. We've seen it happen plenty of.
- [14:03]
So there's, there, there are NHL refs who will probably call it more NHL style, but the, the level of penalty is different and the standard is different in the double ihf. The reason I, I think with Tom Wilson, it comes back to this, this heaviness that I think is going to be there. The other thing is Tom Wilson's actually also a, I think a really good skater and a guy that is going to play the game at the pace that this.
- [14:27]
E
He's a great player. I just mean the rationale for why people think he needs to be on this team.
- [14:32]
D
I mean. Yeah, and yeah, it's heavy hockey. I mean, I think, I think the thing is, is that he, it's not just about hard body checks. I think it's how hard he is to take off the puck, how hard he is to stop going to the middle. Those are going to be the things like the game is still going to be one between the dots and guys like him are going to help you get to the interior more, I think, you know, just with, with, with kind of sheer aggression. Now I have him on the very tail end of my depth chart. I think he's on the bubble. But at the same time, I think as you're kind of making that calculus, like, like the other thing is too, like look at the goals this year. I mean, he's scoring a ton this season. You know, like there's. He's playing really well.
- [15:10]
E
He's a great player.
- [15:12]
D
Yeah. So, I mean, I do think that the risk, the penalty risk is huge in international play. Power plays and everything are going to make a huge difference.
- [15:21]
I think if, if you know Tom Wilson, I think people sometimes think maybe he can't help himself when it comes to some of the physical stuff.
- [15:31]
If they can kind of get him an understanding of the mentality it's going to take to play at this level and the focus it's going to take to play at this level, then I think that he does still make sense.
- [15:43]
E
I just feel like this happens a lot in these tournaments and I know even the team in Canada coaching staff is going to be in the mid when the Mel comes around the world juniors in a couple of weeks. I think they're going to be closing their eyes every time Ksha H is out there on the ice and hoping he doesn't do anything stupid in the semifinals.
- [15:59]
C
Or Brady Martin if he makes the team.
- [16:02]
E
Yeah.
- [16:03]
B
Scott, why don't you make the case for Brad Marchand because he is having such a great year here and yet he's not on all of our rosters.
- [16:09]
C
Yeah. My final roster debate was Brad Marchand versus Tom Wilson. So it doves tails nicely out of the conversation we just had. I just felt like push comes to shove hockey Canada loves Brad Marchand and it's easy to see why they love him. He's having a year that I think qualifies him to be on the team in terms of his play. I think he's been given all of the injuries, I think he's been excellent. Debatably Florida's best forward this season. They were playing the Leafs last night. I tuned into the game and he was their best forward in that game. Like he's just, he's so consistently good and has been so consistently good for. For team Canada that even with players that we all agree should be on the team ahead of him, like Seth Jarvis, who we talked about before. Like, I'm not sure the Canadian brass going to make that same decision. Like, I'm not sure they view Brad Marchand as a, as a bubble guy. A year ago he wasn't. He won it for the Four Nations. Wasn't he one of their original six players that was named, or am I misremembering that?
- [17:08]
B
I don't remember. But your point stands. Like, he's a legacy guy who I.
- [17:11]
C
Think, like he's built up. I think the only way he, he, he was coming out of the conversation is if he took a step back this year and he started to show his age. And if some of those things happen, then you start to have more of a conversation about Martian. I think if he played well enough to be on the team that they were going to find a way to be on the. For him to be on the team. So that's kind of where I, where I landed with Brad. And I think he belongs just like the rest of the sort of bubble guys do.
- [17:35]
B
All right, so just looking at my notes here, we are agreed that Nathan McKinnon, Connor McDavid, Sidney Crosby, Mitch Marner, Sam Rinehart, Macklin Celebrini, Brandon Hagel, Braden Point, Mark Scheifele, Mark Stone, Nick Suzuki, Anthony Sorelli, Connor Bedard and Seth Jarvis are on the team. I think Corey, that leaves our debate really down to. Based on what we've all just talked about, it sounds like we're at Marshand versus Tom Wilson.
- [18:00]
E
Yeah. And I think they both bring a lot of things to the table that you like. They both bring skill and speed. They bring some, some nasty in their game. The big difference is that you, you know, one Marchand is, was also on this team at the Four Nations Stanley cup champion. And there's a size differential there, there's a physicality differential between him and Wilson. My guess is just based on how he's played this year, how he played in the playoffs last spring and just his experience with Hockey Canada. My guess is the lean here would be towards Marchand. But my guess, the one reason why I think they might go the other way is that if they're bringing Suzuki, if they're bringing especially Seth Jarvis, are you bringing too many small players there, like I think like Jarvis? And if we had this kind of issue with Jarvis and, and, and connect, me and Martian at the, at the tournament of the Four Nations, I, I kind of feel like they all kind of cancel each other's rollout a little bit. Whereas Wilson would bring something a little bit more unique.
- [19:01]
B
Yeah, Chris, I know you mean you're the Wilson guy. Do you want to make a final case?
- [19:06]
D
Yeah, I mean like I, I think there's a couple of, a couple of things here and Corey mentioned some of them. I think the size thing is huge. I've mentioned the heavy hockey. And then on top of it, you've got Tom Wilson playing, playing the best hockey of his career. I mean he's on a 49 goal pace right now in, in what he's in this season, he does bring a different element. And you know, I think it to me, like I have a hard time arguing against Marshand as well. He was ahead of Seth Jarvis on my depth chart, you know, and, and that's going to be interesting to kind of see how this debate all ends up playing out in, in real life. But I think that the, the combination of things with how physical Marsh or how physical Wilson is, the way that he's playing this season, the pace that he plays at, the imposing nature of his game, especially on a smaller ice surface, I think that that goes a long way. And it's not just about, you know, you're, you're building a team to, to beat Team usa, like, that's what we all kind of feel like. But I think he's going to help you really intimidate other opponents. He's going to make sure that you have, you know, anybody that's kind of coming near him is going to have to have their head up. And yes, you do have to be careful about the penalty situation. He's going to have to play not restrained, but, you know, smart and, and do that. So to me, because of the nature of the difference that he brings to your lineup, that's why I would have Tom Wilson and I would have him in my regular lineup, too. He wouldn't be on the bench for me. He would be, you know, in, in the everyday lineup.
- [20:34]
B
Well, let me ask this. Is there anyone that would be willing to take Jarvis off and take both Marshand and Tom Wilson?
- [20:42]
Doesn't sound like no.
- [20:44]
D
I mean, aside from me. So.
- [20:46]
B
So you would do that?
- [20:47]
D
We already knew me, so I could.
- [20:49]
B
Be talked into it. I mean, I think these are both legacy kind of players that, you know, Wilson less so. But I can see the argument about, like, there's redundancies in, in Marchand and Seth Jarvis.
- [20:59]
E
I didn't think Jarvis didn't play his way out of the lineup, though. Like, he's been good at the NHL. He's been getting. Carol, you know, he's, you know, he's been a playoff performer. I thought he was, you know, of all those kind of guys I mentioned who were similarly, you know, rolled at the four nations, I thought he was arguably the best of the three. So I, I be. I don't know if he's played his way off this roster.
- [21:20]
D
Yeah, yeah. And I don't think so either. I mean, I, I think that's the, that's the hard part when we get to these discussions. I think right now it's more all about roster structure and balance and whatever else and. But I would agree. I think Jarvis has every reason to believe that he should be on this team. Yeah.
- [21:36]
B
All right, well, then let's vote. Everyone who wants Brad Marchand on this team, raise your hand.
- [21:43]
D
2.
- [21:44]
B
I'm going to vote with Chris on Tom Wilson, and we're going to have a tie. Anyone? We could bring back the old super vote from. From last. I don't know if it was the summer or what. Anyone feel really strongly and they want to pound the table and hammer this?
- [21:57]
E
No. But I can, because I could be persuaded on Wilson, like, I'd be on the fence. So I'll. I'll Come on to your side with Wilson so we can move on here.
- [22:07]
D
That's good radio right there. I quit. I forfeit.
- [22:12]
C
I think it'll be. I think there's a chance both of them will be on, but I do think Brad's going to be on the team in the end. But I'm okay. I'm okay with Wilson for, for our team.
- [22:21]
B
All right, so then the last thing we should talk about with these forwards here before we get to the D is Connor Bedard and the role we see him in. Scott, I think you have him in the top six. All the rest of us have him more. 4th line, 13th forward. That's different than how we're talking about Celebrini. And I think there are people listening that want to know, like, why is that? So why are we talking about Macklin? Celebrini is like a, hey, top six guy and Connor Bedard as a 13th forward.
- [22:42]
E
Corey.
- [22:45]
Some mild differences. You know, at the end of the day, this is still a roster with the very, very best players in the ahl. And I think people will reasonably look at Bedard and say, well, he's top five in the NHL and scoring right now. He's a. Does that mean he's a top five player in the NHL? I probably wouldn't go that far yet. He's Probably a top five 10 player in the NHL right now in terms of his pure offensive abilities, his skill, his offensive sense, his goal scoring ability. Like, I think he probably fits a. You probably want to find a way to get him onto a power play unit if you're Team Canada. I do worry a little bit about the frame. I think his skating is pretty good. I don't think it's elite for his size. I don't think his physicality is elite for his size. And when you start, you start asking about the guys he has to knock off. Like, are you knocking off Sam Reinhardt, who's been a playoff performer for the last two springs? Are you knocking off Mitch Marner, who's also a prolific player, Much more developed body, much more of a two way game. You could keep going down in terms of, you know, the guys that he needs to beat out to be in the top nine? At least with celebrity you could say, yes, he does play that fast. He is that strong. He is that competitive. He can win that many battles against these grown men on USA who are big and strong and are very physical. That's the question for me. I think that's going to be the obvious question for Team Canada and putting the roster together. But if you put him in the top six, top nine, and the argument is just that you feel like he's so above the other candidates offensively that you just have to and I think there's a reasonable debate that he is based on what he's shown so far in the first half of the season.
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- [27:18]
E
All right, let's go.
- [27:18]
B
Now to the team Canada, defense and goalies. And again, a lot of agreement here. Everybody's got Kale Makar, everybody's got Devin Taves, Josh Morrissey, Thomas Harley, one of the breakout stars of the four nations. There are a few players though who are whether they're returners or whether they're kind of legacy players who someone had an issue with. So Corey, you didn't have Drew Dowdy on your list. Why was that?
- [27:39]
E
I think Drew Doughty is great and when we did this conversation in the a couple months ago, I had him in there. But for me the difference is one, you're going to have a healthy share of Theodore this time around and two, I think Jacob Chickren has been that good in the first half of the season and I think he brings everything you want in a team Canada fence. But he's got great feet, he's big, he works hard, he has significant offense, he can move a puck, he's got the big point shot. I think he, he offers a lot of to this team and I know he wasn't even on the initial camp roster, but for me, I think it's not about less about Doughty and more just about how good Chickren has been in the first half of the season. I think he deserves to be in this conversation.
- [28:24]
B
Yeah, Scott, you didn't have on the flip side of that, Colton Pareco.
- [28:28]
C
Yeah, I didn't have Pareco Sanheim. There were a couple of guys from last year's roster that I just felt weren't really in the mix. And Mackenzie Weger, who we talked about as someone that could be a sort of number eight a couple of months ago when we did this, I think has played his way out of the mix. So the group of players that I was strongly considering kind of shrunk over the course of this season. And the only name that sort of usurped someone that jumped into this group outside of the eight that I had previously was swapping Matthew Schaefer in. I've got the same seven defensemen otherwise. And I think Schaefer just much like Jacob Chickren has played his way into the mix. I think Matthew Schaefer has played his way into the mix. And I think if you were playing Matthew Schaefer at some point in the tournament, 15, 16 minutes a night, I think he's more than capable of handling his own. And he has shown that with his skating and the way that he thinks the game that, that he's, I think, ready for this. Maybe not for starring in this, but I think he, there, there's a, there's. There are minutes that he could play in this event. So I felt that Schaefer was sort of the last guy on. For me.
- [29:29]
B
I had Matthew Schaefer as my last guy on too. And, and for me it came at the expense of Shea Theodore, which I didn't feel great about. But I just look at the rest of the Canada depth chart and I see Thomas Harley, Josh Mor, like, I see Devin Taves, even like I see guys who are similar toolkits to what Shea Theodore brings, who I like more. And so at that point it was, let me reach for the dynamic element of Matthew Schaefer. I know he's very young and Corey, maybe that's why you and Chris probably didn't have him on. But I, that to me was my argument with Schaefer is he at least brings that special quality.
- [30:00]
E
He's extremely talented, but man, like he's 18 years old and, and I, I know how good he's been to start the NHL season and we'll get to this when we get to Team USA. But I really like what USA's manager Bill Guerin said when he was asked about this and he's like, this is not a peewee trial. It's not about who had two good months. It's a thorough player evaluation. You got to look at the body of work. You got to look where the toolkits are right now. And you know, Matt Schaefer has an 18 year old's body and you know, I think he'd be fine against Slovakia and Switzerland and teams like that, but I don't know how he's going to do when the Tkachuk brothers are bringing down his neck in a metal round game. Like, would concern me a little bit. And I think if you asked me to go two, three, four more names, he would be there. But I just had eight other names I'd prefer to bring at this stage and. But I think if we're talking about, you know, this is 2026, if this was a 2028 tournament, I absolutely could see him be in the conversation.
- [31:00]
C
Are we that much more confident that Colton Paro or Travis Sandheim with some of those players breathing down their neck, are.
- [31:07]
E
Aren't I. I'd rather have. I'd rather have Paro killing penalties than Schaefer.
- [31:12]
C
They've got. They're going to have plenty of guys who can kill penalties. Like, Colton Pareco hasn't scored a goal this season.
- [31:18]
B
They don't have anyone else like Colton Pareco anywhere on this roster. Like, they don't have anyone with his level of physicality on this defense core.
- [31:24]
E
Or maybe the size too. Like, yeah, and his skating. Like, he's a pretty unique. Like, he's gonna be a tough one for them to leave off, even if he's just like a seven. Like.
- [31:35]
I know he's like, his offense is very limited and if you ask him to make a pass more than 10ft at this level, you're asking will probably too much. But I think you gotta have someone like that.
- [31:45]
C
That to me is more valuable than.
- [31:48]
Making a pass at this level. And executing at this level is more valuable than adding toughness on the back end to this. Like, Devin Taves can penalty kill. Cale Makar can penalty kill. These are the best players in the world. I don't think they're going to be.
- [32:00]
B
I don't know that you want my car. Penalty killing in a gold medal game. Yeah, he can do it in the NHL.
- [32:05]
C
But Perico is like a. I'd rather kill Makar with the chips on the table in any situation than. Than Colton Pareco. Like, it's.
- [32:15]
E
I think that's.
- [32:16]
C
I think.
- [32:18]
Inserting size.
- [32:20]
E
That's not how penalty kills work. It's not about, like, skill. Like, you got to have big guys who go block shots.
- [32:25]
C
Penalty kills on the best team in the league.
- [32:27]
E
Yeah.
- [32:32]
D
Where.
- [32:33]
C
Where does Colorado's penalty kill rank relative to St. Louis's penalty kill? Like, what do you mean, Kale? These are the world's best players.
- [32:40]
D
He's not a penalty kill there. Like, I mean, he's just Not. I mean that's, that's the thing is like you do have to still build roles. He's not going to play 30 minutes a game. Like and for.
- [32:53]
B
Nor would Matthew Schaefer be. We're not bringing Matthew Schaefer to penalty kill either. And nor would be Evan Bouchard.
- [32:58]
D
Right.
- [32:58]
B
So it's not like everyone's going to pk. But I don't think you're bringing Colton Prager for a totally different job than you're talking about from some of these other guys.
- [33:05]
C
I just think that Josh Morrissey and Drew Doughty and all of these guys can do do that job.
- [33:10]
E
Yeah.
- [33:11]
C
And there's enough guy like obviously Evan Bouchard is a different conversation but the rest of these guys can can penalty kill and do with and do penalty kill with all of their NHL teams.
- [33:21]
E
I have some concerns on Theodore being a penalty killer on this team. I'd have like some even like like I said, like I don't know like you said. Even like Morrissey and Makar. Like, like I said it's. It's like can they do it? Yes. Can they do it at the highest possible level in hockey when you really need someone to be a stopper. Like that's where I think the debate comes in and why you prefer at least somebody who's a hard defenseman on this team even though like you are giving back a lot in terms of the, the puck play. Like I get like it's less about the penalty kill and more about the even strength impact. Like would you rather have Schaefer playing 10 even straight minutes or rather have Pareco playing 10 even straight minutes is more of the, it's more the debate there for me. But in terms of the PK ability like I think that's clearly a role that's lacking on this team with the.
- [34:06]
B
Group right now there, there are going to be one if not two Kachuks on the ice when Team USA has is on the power play. And I, I need a defenseman bigger than six foot one back there. @ least one of them on the ice for when there's down low battles and retrievals. Like I just can't have it all be on Josh Morrissey, devontaves great players like Norris candidate players. But if one or two of the Kachuks are out there, I need someone with.
- [34:28]
E
Size. Yeah, Harley's big but he's not hard.
- [34:31]
C
Either. And when Colton Perako coughs a puck up in the slot to Kyle Conner or Auston Matthews or any of the number of Shooters, like, there's give and take with every hockey player. You take the players who are going to drive play and win their minutes. And I don't think Colton Perako is up to that.
- [34:48]
B
Task. But nobody's, nobody's driving play on the penalty kill. No one is. Like, the whole point is get an icing and get off the.
- [34:54]
C
Ice. Yes. And the best players in the game find ways out of trouble in the defensive zone and make plays on the penalty kill. Like it's, I don't know. I, I think we're, we're grossly overstating the value of, of a player like Colton Pareco at, at this kind of an event. Like Drew Dowdy. Drew Doughty has played how many, how many hundreds of penalty kill minutes has Drew Doughty played in his career? Successfully? Like it's, and he, but you need.
- [35:21]
E
Candidates. He'd be candidate for that also. I, I would just guess as well, given who the manager of Team Canada is. That parade was probably could have be there just.
- [35:32]
B
Just. But this is our list. Like, this is not, this is our, our formulation. Let's go to Evan Bouchard. This is a related conversation with Evan Bouchard, frankly. So let's just go there now. He's on both Scott and Corey's list. He's not on either of Chris and mine. Scott, like, you're already kind of making the case, I think, as you are. But go ahead and make Bouchard's.
- [35:48]
C
Case. Yeah, I, I just think the case for Bouchard's the same one as it was previously. I, I, I, I think he's the perfect sort of number seven, number eight guy for this group because he gives you an option on the power play if someone gets in, if a Kale Makar gets injured or a Josh Morrissey gets injured, he immediately becomes an upgrade over Shea Theodore who runs the power play in Vegas and some of those guys. There's just a level gap there for the, on the power play for me, more of one with Evan Bouchard on the power play than with Colton Perako on the penalty kill for me. And, and I think he's proven it over the last two play he had. He got off to it. Like, let's be honest, he got off to a really rough start to this year. I think he's been much better recently, but I think he's shown enough over the last two playoff runs, especially the playoff run two years ago, that he can, he can be a guy for you. Is he going to be playing 20 minutes a night on the back end for Team Canada at this event. No, I don't think the coaching staff will trust him to play that kind of a role. But I think him as an option, as a backup, as a number seven, number eight, makes a lot of.
- [36:47]
D
Sense.
- [36:48]
B
Yeah. There is an argument to be made that if Cale Makar is for any reason unable to be in a game, if he's hurt or whatever else, like Evan Bouchard is the guy who would elevate the team the most because he could be an elite power play quarterback. There might not be another elite power play quarterback in this bunch.
- [37:02]
D
Chris. No, probably not. I mean, and I, I just think that there's the, the one dimensional nature, you know, I think is really the separating factor and why I didn't have Bouchard on there. I think you can have specialists in this, like, you know, I mean, if we're gonna spend a lot of time talking about Colton Preco's penalty killing abilities, you have to talk a lot about Evan Bouchard's value on the power play. I mean, Cal McCarr once went to a world juniors as basically only a power play guy, you know, so I, I think that there are opportunities to, to utilize that player. You know, in the end I, I just think, you know, I, I, I look at various options of what they have and I feel like you're getting a bit more versatility from some of the other guys. You know, it's, I did debate having Bouchard over Doughty on my final list. You know, he's, I basically added two extra defensemen below on my depth chart just because, you know, to kind of really make sure that I, you know, as I saw all, you know, all of them there, all 10 of them there, what it looked like and you know, ultimately decided that versatility was going to win out. But I think that to Scott's point, you know, you lose Makar for any amount of time, you really are starting to feel like, hey, we, we, we could have had somebody better on the power play. And that's, that's where that debate comes.
- [38:23]
B
In. All right, so I think we've got seven solved based on everybody's lists. Devontaves, Kale McCarr, Josh Morrissey, Drew Doughty, Thomas Harley, Colton Pareco and Shea Theodore are on. We have one spot to give between Jacob Chikrin, Evan Bouchard, Matthew Schaefer and Travis Sandheim. So we're gonna have to vote there. So I guess. All in favor of chicken hand up?
- [38:49]
Just Corey. All in favor Of Evan Bouchard. Hand up.
- [38:55]
All in. Okay. Scott is in favor of Bouchard, Matthew Schaefer. Hand.
- [38:59]
E
Up.
- [39:03]
One to one. To one to.
- [39:04]
B
One. And I guess we know where that's going for. Oh, wait, who's that? Who's that a hand.
- [39:09]
D
For? Well, for the only player.
- [39:11]
B
Left. Travis.
- [39:11]
D
Sanheim. Travis Anheim.
- [39:13]
E
Yeah.
- [39:13]
B
Okay. All right, so we're one to one. To one to one. I would be pretty inclined to flip to Sanheim if I was going to flip mine, but does anyone want to flip theirs first?
- [39:25]
All right, so I'll. I'll vote with Chris. Travis Sandheim is our eighth player, and that's our defense core. Devontaves, Kale McCarr, Josh Morrissey, Drew Doughty, Thomas Harley, Colton Pareco, Travis Sanheim, Shea. Theodore. Scott's given a grimace, man. You're.
- [39:42]
C
Not. I don't. Travis Sanheim would have been fourth. Like, I would have gone Bouchard, Schaefer, Chick, any of those three over. Over Sanheim. But that's. All.
- [39:52]
B
Right. All.
- [39:53]
D
Right. We are. We are debating the guy that. The guys that are probably going to have the least amount of ice time on this team. So, yeah, the only thing we.
- [40:02]
B
Have left on Team Canada is the goalie. And it's a short debate because almost all of us have the same grouping. Logan Thompson, Jordan Bennington, and Darcy Kemper. But Corey, you have Aiden Hill, so I wanted to at least give.
- [40:12]
D
You.
- [40:12]
B
I. You've already been outvoted, frankly, but I wanted to at least give you the chance to make the case for Aiden Hill here over Darcy.
- [40:18]
E
Kemper. Just. I like the athleticism there, but if you really all felt confident that Kemper could be the three again, we're talking about three here. I think for me, the more interesting debate is who we think is the starter, because I think Thompson deserves to be the.
- [40:29]
B
Starter. It's just going to be so hard for Team Canada to go away from the guy who delivered them the gold medal a year ago. And I get it, he's been horrible this year. He's been one of the worst goalies in the league to start it out. And maybe that will sway them. Maybe they'll get to camp and be like, thompson's just way better. But don't you think no matter what, Bennington's getting game.
- [40:48]
D
One?
- [40:51]
Oh, yeah. I mean, and as. And as. As, you know, as an American, I think that's a great.
- [40:55]
C
Call.
- [40:58]
I. I'm right there with Corey. I think it should be. I think it should be.
- [41:01]
B
Thompson. Unmarried.
- [41:03]
C
Yes. The one the one calculus sort of mistake that they made in this entire process was just bringing three goalies to their their summer summit, whatever you want to call it, that backed them into a corner. And now two of those goalies, I would argue, have played their way completely out. Like Sam Montambo isn't even talk about the worst goalie in the league. Sam Montambo isn't even in the.
- [41:24]
E
Conversation.
- [41:27]
C
So. And they should have just brought five or they brought a ton of defensemen and a ton of forwards. They should have brought five or six goalies in the summer. I think that was silly in.
- [41:36]
B
Hindsight. All right, so that's Team Canada. We're going to take a quick break. We'll come back with Team.
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A
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- [43:13]
B
Done.
- [43:19]
All right, we are back and the draw for next summer's World cup is on Friday at 12pm Eastern. You can watch the Athletic FC podcast live stream reacting to all the major fallout immediately after the draw has wrapped on their YouTube channel make sure you check that out. Should be exciting. Now let's hit Team usa. And once again, ton of consensus high in the lineup. I think that the top nine is pretty much consensus for everyone. The Chuck Brothers, Jack Eichel, Auston Matthews, Jack Hughes, Dylan Larkin, Matt Boldy, Kyle Conner, all unanimous in everyone's top nine. Jake Gensl, and almost everyone's. And really not that far down anywhere else. Everyone has Tage Thompson somewhere on this team. I think that's notable. But really, again, what we're talking about here is the guys who are at the Four nations and who are now kind of on the bubble. And so J.T. miller is the most obvious case of that. I think most of us kept him on, but, Scott, you've got him off your.
- [44:07]
C
Roster. Yeah, there were a few of those guys, whether it was Nelson Miller, Trocheck, who I just think have been outplayed over the course of this season. Season. Like, I think Jason Robertson's been better. I like Shane Pinto as sort of a fifth center. I think Alex DeBrincat has played his way into the conversation. Cole Caufield has played his way into the conversation. And despite the fact that Caufield's a little bit smaller and a debrink, it's a little bit smaller. I don't think this team is wanting for size. Like, they don't have to search for it maybe like, quite like Team Canada did. And I don't think that they. They. That necessitates bringing a player like a JT Miller. They've got the Tkachuk brothers, Auston, Matthews. Like, they've, they've, they've. If Tage Thompson's on all of our rosters, I know he's not the hardest player, but he brings. Certainly brings size. So for. For me, that was. The calculus was just A, I don't think J.T. miller has played particularly well this season, and B, I don't think you're desperately wanting for what he brings to the.
- [45:01]
E
Roster. He's got plenty of skill, though. Like, he's. This is like a. You know, a guy who has a. Pretty prolific.
- [45:10]
Yeah, he's not a. Like, he's not like a.
- [45:13]
C
Grinder. No. But he hasn't produced nearly in line with any of those, like, any of those players this year or.
- [45:20]
E
Last.
- [45:20]
D
Sure. Yeah. And his role, his role on Team USA would be a grinder. Yeah, like. Yeah, that would be his role. If.
- [45:27]
E
He'S. I don't know if Cole Caufield's a.
- [45:29]
D
Grinder. He's not. But, like, that's the thing is like J.T. miller, if you're looking for that, that may be the, that may be. As I built this team, I was like, oh boy. Like the reason J.T. miller ended up on my depth chart is largely because I was like, well, if nothing else, he might not, he at least plays a hard nose brand of hockey. Typically not all the time. You know, this year has definitely not been his best showing. But I mean I, I do think, you know, I look at kind of my roster is like, wow, there's a lot of, there's an awful lot of skill there. You know, how many guys are gonna, you know, really be able to do it at both ends against a Canadian team? That's going to be quick. And if they do have some size, you know, like a guy, like a Tom Wilson, you know, I would not want to be in the same corner as Tom Wilson and Cole Caulfield at that point. But either way, you know, I think it's going to be really interesting to see, you know, Bill Garon has tipped his hand that heaviness is, is going to loom large in the decision process.
- [46:28]
B
Here. I took him on mine partly because, you know, he was on the team last year. I think Mike Sullivan, who is now his head coach with the Rangers, and that may be a good or a bad thing based on how J.T. miller has played this season. But I think obviously that that's going to help the familiarity. And I think he's just a guy who you can put in a bunch of different situations if you needed him to play center. And we've talked about, you really don't have to force that on these superstar teams because a lot of guys can play center. But it's less true of team USA than it is Team Canada. There's, there's more places to put J.T. miller in a pinch than there are for me like a Jason Robertson and that's a guy who was popular have on mine and I know he's been super productive, but there's just only I'm not going to put him on the, on a fourth line that I'm expecting to check. It's really would only be if something came up in the top six. And that was the thing I grappled with with Jason Robertson.
- [47:13]
E
Corey. Yeah. And I probably wouldn't have him in my top 12. I think he's one of my reserves. But his skating so bad that I think unless he's in your top nine, you think he's going to play regular even strength and Power play for you. It's going to be tough to fit him into the lineup. I put Knives on my fourth line because I like the heaviness there but as I've thought about it since then and obviously with Toronto struggles this season I. I wonder if they would go a different direction there. But I feel like with fourth line guys that fit that role, you know, like I said, Killer doesn't really fit that taste. Thompson doesn't really fit that. Caulfield doesn't really fit that. So if Garen wants to build a heavy team, I feel you could. I don't know if the bubble candidates that. There's a lot of guys who really fit that description.
- [47:57]
B
Yeah. And if we stick talking about returners like, you know, Vincent Trocheck is another guy Corey that I don't think you had on. On yours and I have him on mine. Chris has him on his. I don't think Scott had him but Scott, why don't you start then on this one? Why no. Why no Vincent.
- [48:11]
C
Trocheck. I just another one him talk like I just think some of those guys have been outplayed. Like I just think you start to look at, at the options and I think they've been outplayed and I think there is room for a Caulfield or a DeBrincat in place of a guy like a Tuck or a, or a Trocheck or a Miller in that you do start to look at. Okay, PP1, you kind of know the names but PP2, there isn't really that sort of dying. Cage Thompson maybe if he's sort of on PP2 on the flank. There isn't really a dynamic flank player I think left for PP2 so that's kind of where I factored in a Cole Caufield a little bit more than a Tro check or a Tuck or.
- [48:53]
One of the Matthew Nyes. I, I don't think Matthew, Matthew Nice has played well this season but I don't think he's quite there in terms of level.
- [49:01]
E
Yet. But it had one name I wish I would have put on there was Nelson. Like now that I'm thinking about it, I probably instead of Knives I probably should have had Nelson in there just based on the different elements. Probably better skater than Nice.
- [49:13]
C
Too. I just thought Nelson had such a tough time last year. Like I, he. I maybe, maybe that was just me writing him off a year ago but I, I kind of took him off my roster last year and didn't really about him. Thought about him.
- [49:26]
D
Since. Yeah, he's it's so interesting. He's. He's an interesting one because I thought about him for a really long time before leaving him off as well. The other factor is. This is the hidden factor. This definitely doesn't matter is, you know, the, the whole Roo element. If USA hasn't won a gold medal without a player from Roseau on the team, so. Or not Rose. Sorry, Ward. Oh my gosh, that was a terrible mistake. Waroed from the team. So. Wow. Please, Minnesota don't come for me, world. I understand, you know, but. But on top of that, like, yeah, I actually thought the four nations to me was a bit underwhelming for Brock. And I have tremendous amount of respect for a player that, you know, it took me a long time to warm up to and boy, does he. He's. He's had just a tremendous career. I think he has that versatility that USA may want in its depth and he very well could be there. But, you know, I, I agree with, you know, there's just some elements that just didn't fit for.
- [50:23]
E
Me. I probably think the most competitive player, if you're looking, maybe not the heaviest player, but because I think Nelson would provide that combination of heaviness and size. Probably the most competitive player is probably Cooley. Like, I think the way he plays, the way he can get inside, the way he can win battles, Like, I think you see how he's played this year. I think I'd be surprised if he's not on this team in some capacity. Like he. He's just, even as a young player, I think more than Keller, more than Caulfield. Like, I think he's the one that should. Has played his weight into this.
- [50:55]
B
Conversation. Well, basically where we're at here is we've just mentioned a bunch of different names and we have. We have two winger spots on the fourth line and then we have our fifth line, quote, unquote. And that we have so many names to choose from here. So it's kind of hard to get a handle on all of it. But let's try to vote here and get some consensus. Based on the lists everyone submitted, we're going to put J.T. miller and Cole Caulfield in, and then the guys we have to decide between are Logan Cooley, Brock Nelson, Matthew Nyes, Vincent Tro Check and Clayton Keller. And we had Shane Pinto, Alex Tuck got mentions, but not nearly enough, I think, to even put them in this vote. I think, Corey, your Cooley idea has some merit and it sounds like Chris is on board with that. Is everyone cool if we go with Logan Cooley on this.
- [51:46]
C
Roster? Cooley, I'm good with.
- [51:49]
B
It. And Corey, you know, the point about him being a center sticks here because right now I think we have Tage Thompson as a center here. There may be a world where Team USA wants would rather have Logan Cooley centering a fourth line than Tage.
- [52:00]
E
Thompson. I think there's a world where the Buffalo Sabres would rather have Taste Thompson on the wing than that center right now. So I think there's. I have a hard time imagining Taste Thompson being the fourth line center on tv. Usa. I just can't see it.
- [52:14]
C
Happening. Sabers fans will tell you that Tage Thompson's best hockey has been played at center and not at the wing. But yeah, I tend to.
- [52:21]
B
Agree. I know we're not like unanimous on Vincent Trojek, but he's a guy that I think could, you know, help Team USA's brass sleep easier if he's on this team too. Do we have opposition to Vincent Tro check on this team? A lot of.
- [52:35]
C
Shit. I'm okay with pro.
- [52:36]
B
Check. All right, so I think to me, when we have Cole Caulfield, when we have Kyle Conner, I only want to take one of Clayton Keller or Jason Robertson here. So let's have that debate here. Anyone want to make the case for Jason Robertson?
- [52:52]
Sounds like an easy debate. All right, so we're Keller then. Chris, you had him pretty high on your list. Why.
- [52:58]
D
Keller? Yeah, you know, I just think that he is a facilitator. I think he can really make. Make guys around him better. I think he's a heady player. I don't think that he shies away from the. The physical games. Yes, he doesn't have size, but I do think that he, you know, is. Is a competitor. He's going to make plays. You know, he was pretty disappointed to not make the four nations team last year. And I think he was one of the later cuts of that, of that team. You know, he had a 90 point season last year, not quite at that same pace this year. And now he's, you know, dealing with the unfortunate and untimely passing of his father as well. But to me, Clayton Keller answered the call last year, was part of that gold medal team at the World championship. I don't think that you use Olympic spots as rewards for that necessarily, but I think that that was a moment that was significant for Team usa, for him as well to go there. And then also just kind of having had that success, I do think matters. So there's a. There's a number of things there, but for me, I think that Clayton Keller is the kind of guy that's going to make players better. He's going to help Team USA score goals. By the way, he can drive play. So I. I just felt like he is in this mix of players. He belongs in this mix of players. You know, I. I could. I could certainly be swayed, but I just think you. You look at kind of the. Some of the guys that are. That are in the mix, and you think about Caulfield and Connor and others. I was like, you know, like, I think having a Clayton Keller or somebody along the lines that can, you know, and you'd have to have a bigger center, but, you know, have somebody that, you know, can get those guys the puck, and I think he.
- [54:34]
B
Could.
- [54:35]
E
Yep. On a tangent there, Chris, like, I know we have him on the roster and we. I. I love Cole Caulfield, so I've been. I've been a huge Cold Cockfield fan for a long time. You know, Bill Garrett. Is there any way he's bringing Cole Caulfield into the 12 of this.
- [54:47]
D
Team? Yeah, that's. That's the thing. I. I am very skeptical of that, you know, and I think he's. He's been pretty open about the way he wants to build this team. I don't necessarily agree, you know, like, because I think that with goal scoring at a premium, it'd be hard to leave one of your best goal scorers off. But I.
- [55:08]
E
Think. I think Scottsden has a text that 20 that they're. They're kind of opening the door for another just an applicator situation.
- [55:14]
D
Here. Oh.
- [55:16]
B
Man. But none of these guys are just an applicator. Like, these are. These are all NHL All Star players that we're talking. This is a different player pool than Team USA's had.
- [55:23]
D
It. Well, don't. Don't. Hey, hang on a second there, Max. Don't, don't. Don't be shocked if somebody comes out of left field that we aren't even talking.
- [55:32]
E
About. Like a Brian. Like a Brian Russ or something like.
- [55:36]
D
That. Well, yeah, and actually, Brian Russ still wouldn't.
- [55:39]
B
Be. He's like, doubled so far. Applicators, career.
- [55:41]
D
High. And.
- [55:42]
B
Yeah.
- [55:42]
D
Yeah. It's.
- [55:43]
B
Just. It's no offense to Justin Abdicator, who's a very nice.
- [55:46]
D
Person. He's a great guy. Former Cedar Rapids Rough Rider, you know.
- [55:49]
E
Yeah. Bringing Chris Kreider back or something. Like who. You.
- [55:53]
D
Know. Yeah. I mean that. Like, again, I. I think there's there's, there is a world where that is a possibility. And maybe that's where Brock Nelson kind of fits into this debate as well in terms of, you know, maybe, maybe you're sliding him in and that's, I'm not saying that he's at that level. I think he's, you know, he's having a great season, so, you know, he makes sense if he's, he's in the options. But I do think, like, when you like, to the outside world, Cole Caulfield seems like an obvious guy to the way that they're building this team. He very much is on the.
- [56:22]
B
Bubble. He is on ours, though. And so the one last decision we have to make here is Brock Nelson or Matthew Nies for one of these two spots. Nelson does have the center thing, but with Cooley and Trocheck already in place, my lane would be for the physicality with Nice. He's also having a better year. He's younger. I know, I know. Scott, what you said about like, not being ready to be kind of at this Olympic level, I would take him here for the role, especially with all the small scores you have. I, I would pound the table for Matthew.
- [56:50]
C
Nice. I'd lean Knives over like, I'm not, I don't, I'm not excited about either of those players being on the, on the Olympic roster, but I would lean Nice over Nelson based off what we saw for. At least in Nice, you know exactly what you're getting, which is a heavy below the goal line for checking. Dig in the dirty areas and get guys the puck player. Like, if you have, I don't, I don't think you're starting him in your, in your top 12. But if you have to insert him under your fourth line, I think you're, you have a better idea of what you're going to get, even maybe more than the more veteran in Nelson who you just don't quite know if he's at this level.
- [57:27]
B
Either. Scott Corey, any objections? Denies. All right. Matthew Nies. Welcome to our Team.
- [57:33]
E
Usa. Yeah, I do wonder when it comes down to it, if they start looking at the certain qualities. And you mentioned, Chris, mentioned the world championships. I wonder about Nasara because of the year he's having, because of the energy level he plays at. I wonder if he leaps some of these skill guys, these more traditional skill.
- [57:51]
C
Guys. I, I do think the last month for Nazar has probably ended that conversation. Like I, I last time, last time we did. Even before that, he, he was not playing like he cooled off considerably and was not playing well and they were cutting his minutes. And I think that. That I thought coming into the year, we mentioned it the last time we had this chat, that I thought he was kind of a. A dark horse, but I don't know whether he still is he.
- [58:21]
E
Baby. He's kind of like the Seth Jarvis type of player that Canada has. So that would be the.
- [58:26]
B
Argument. All right, let's go to the D now. And honestly, even more so than the forwards, there's a lot of consensus here. We all got Quinn Hughes, Charlie McAvoy, Jacob Slavin, Jake Sanderson, Zach Warinski, Brock, Fate, favor. The debates are pretty simple. There's an obvious one, that's Adam Fox. We'll get to that in a second. But Noah Hannifin did not make it onto a whole lot of these projections. Guy. Chris, you're the only guy that had Noah Hannifin on these rosters. Corey, why not Noah.
- [58:51]
E
Hannifin? I just think there have been other players this season that have leaped what he can bring. Like, I think Hughes skates just as well, if not better than him. Brings just as much, if not more offense than him. Happened maybe, you know, a little bit harder defender, but I think, you know, Hughes brings more elements. I think Seth Jones brings some of the same, if not better elements than Hannifin brings. I just. If they're healthy, which they work last time because they didn't have Quinn.
- [59:22]
I. I think there's just better.
- [59:24]
B
Candidates. I. I know that we talked about in the this with the lightning forwards in the Canada segment, but I also really like the idea of reuniting him and Zach Werensky on a third pair for Team usa that being set.
- [59:36]
You know, Seth Jones's playoff run was outstanding. He was one of the Panthers three best players, I thought, on that cup run. So he's on my team as well. Leaping over Noah Hannifin.
- [59:45]
C
It'S. I don't.
- [59:46]
B
Know. Hannifin didn't do anything at the last tournament to play himself off the roster. And that's where I feel bad. And Chris, you can kind of speak to that, but I just felt like Seth Jones leaped.
- [59:54]
D
Him. Yeah, I mean, that's. That's certainly fair. I mean, I think that there's. There's a lot of. I think these last couple of D spots are really up for grabs and that there's going to be a lot of debate points. You know, I didn't. I would say that Hannifin, among the players that I put on my depth chart, was probably one of the ones I felt the least strong about. And then I also watched him against the Blackhawks last night, and that definitely did. There were. There were good and bad for that. So, you know, you kind of just see various things. I, you know, I'm gonna be really fascinated. I know, like, Corey has Luke Hughes, and. And, you know, there. There are other guys, like, Scott's got Lane Hudson. Yeah, Scott's got Lane Hudson. You know, like, that's. I. I think Hannifin is the type that I think they would bring relative to some of those. Those other guys that have maybe more offensive prowess. I think that that's ultimately why I had him over some of the other guys that were on there, because I, I, you know, know, if it was my team making it, you know, I think Lane Hudson, I'd find a spot for him maybe as my seventh D. And. But at the same time, you know, I just. I'm also trying to think about how. How things would go and. And I think players like Hannifin would be more in line and why, frankly, Seth Jones ended up on my list.
- [61:20]
E
Too. And if you're going to bring, like, Hudson or Fox, they probably play our second power play, because you figure. Or Wensky, right, Quinn are on the second power play. You could put 2D there. But then it's a question of which of these. These tremendous forwards are you leaving off to bring another defenseman onto your power.
- [61:34]
C
Play. It's. It's fun. I will say, it's funny you mentioned that you were watching Noah Hannifin play against Chicago last night, and he didn't play well because Seth Jones was also terrible against the Leafs last night.
- [61:46]
D
So.
- [61:48]
Bad timing.
- [61:49]
B
Guys. All right, so, Corey, you left Adam Fox off of your lineup here. You're the only one that left him off. And you left him off, I thought, interestingly, in favor of Luke Hughes. I know there's more size. I know there's more skating, but is there really? Especially after the case you made against Matthew Schaefer. Like, is there really. I know Hughes is a little older, but is there really that much more impact you're getting out of Luke Hughes than. Than Adam Fox.
- [62:11]
E
There?
- [62:13]
It'd be close. Like. It is. It's close, but I think you're trying to think about what you're getting from there. Your seventh 8D. I think that's a variable for sure. It's why I would take a Pareco over a Shaffer. If I'm putting together a depth chart, putting together a roster, like, there's no way you're maximizing Adam Fox on this team, like, I just don't see how that happens unless you have several significant injuries. Same thing with Hudson. Whereas I think with Hughes, like, he's still probably more of a power play, tilted guy, but I think with his skating, you can live a little bit more with him at even strength against the team Canada, against a team Sweden. His retrievals, his transition game will be good enough at this level. Even. Even if he's a little bit of a questionable defender decision maker at times. That's my lean there. Like I said, I think in order to. In order to bring Fox, he has to be on your power play. And for me, he's just not on my power play, so that'd be my.
- [63:01]
C
Lean. I would. I would argue that in order to bring Luke Hughes, he has to be on your power. Like, I don't think Luke Hughes defends nearly well enough to be. Be an even strength guy for.
- [63:11]
B
Them. I agree. You'd have an easier time selling me on Noah Hannifin over Adam Fox than you would on Luke Hughes over Adam Fox. For me.
- [63:18]
D
Same.
- [63:21]
I think it would be cool if all three Hughes brothers were on the team. That'd be cool. But, I mean, yeah, like, that's the thing. Like, I. I kind of agree. And I think that there's. There's. There's a lot of different things that, that they're going to weigh here. And I think particularly on the blue line, I do think, like, the reason that guys like Seth Jones are going to be there and, And I do think Adam Fox will ultimately make the final roster, but I do think his. His status is very precarious. It's. It's all about having guys that you can depend on and rely on. And as much as I love Luke Hughes and as much as I love Lane Hudson and even like a Jackson lacombe, I don't know if there's enough track record there for me to take them over the more senior players. And that, I think, is what will make the difference here in some of these.
- [64:13]
B
Decisions. All right, so I'll propose this then to end the debate. Adam Fox is on the majority of these ballots, but Corey, can you live with that if Scott and Chris agree to put Seth Jones on this roster here as.
- [64:25]
E
Well?
- [64:26]
B
Sure. All right. Very simple, Scott. Chris, are you. Are you comfortable with that.
- [64:31]
D
Compromise? Yeah, I had Seth Jones on.
- [64:34]
B
My roster, so the grimace from Scott here is amazing. He really doesn't want Seth.
- [64:38]
C
Jones. Yeah. Seth Jones. Like, I would have. I would have rather Noah Hannifin than Seth Jones.
- [64:43]
B
But. But that's the compromise, right? Like, because I think for me, I mean.
- [64:47]
C
Peters. Peters had. Peters had Hannifin on his.
- [64:51]
D
Roster.
- [64:52]
C
Yeah. Did you have Hannah higher or lower than Seth Jones? On your. On.
- [64:56]
D
Your. I had.
- [64:56]
C
Him.
- [64:56]
D
Peters. I had him. I had him lower.
- [65:00]
B
Yeah. No, you don't have Seth Jones on.
- [65:02]
D
Yours. Wait, I.
- [65:03]
B
Don'T?
- [65:04]
D
No. Oh, dang it. Yeah, he's. He's listed fifth on my. On.
- [65:10]
B
My. On your left side chart. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that's kind of my thought with the compromise is that, like.
- [65:17]
D
If.
- [65:17]
B
If. If it's Jones or Hannifin, I think Corey and I are. Are good with.
- [65:22]
C
Fox. Did you not have Fox.
- [65:25]
B
Max? I have Fox. So. So Fox is on. But I'm saying, like, just to, like, kind.
- [65:30]
C
Of. I. I'm just angling not to have to make like.
- [65:36]
No, no, we're all going to have guys off of our roster if Fox was going to end up on it either way. I don't know whether we have to compromise with Corey here. Like, if there's a guy that.
- [65:45]
B
Three of us, well, then the debate's just going to become Jones or Hannifan is what's going to happen, so we can do that. So Fox is on, and then the debate is Jones vs Hannifan. And to me, it's a fairly simple debate because one organically plays the right side and has huge familiarity with the guy that I want to play him with, which is Zach Wensky. So that's my argument for Seth.
- [66:02]
C
Jones. Okay, well, maybe it's as simple as I've lost the debate on Seth Jones for now.
- [66:07]
B
Then. All right, so we'll take Seth Jones, and then the only thing we have left to decide today is the third goalie for Team usa. Connor Helbuk, Jake Ottinger, everybody has those. But it was a 2:2 split on how the rest of us wanted to proceed. I have Jeremy Swayman. I believe Chris also had Jeremy Swayman. And then Corey, I know you had Spencer Knight, and I think Scott did as well. So that's the debate we have to have here. And it's not an easy one. These guys have both been off to really good starts to this season. Swayman obviously was on the Four nations roster, so to me, that gives him a lean and a tie break. But I also can buy Corey if the argument is, hey, Spencer Knight might just be your goalie at the 2030 Olympics. Like, that's not a bad case to make for your third.
- [66:47]
E
Goalie. And I do just argue he's been. You don't want to overreact to a couple of good months, but to me, it hasn't been a couple of good buts. It's been a couple of outstanding months. Like, the level he's played at, to me, has been one of the very best goalies in the league. And you look at the toolkit, you look at his track record, there's a lot of reasons to be optimistic about this player, to think that he could handle this level if he's given the call, and I think he's just deserved it, quite.
- [67:17]
B
Frankly.
- [67:19]
All right, so I guess what we need is somebody to volunteer to flip here. So, Chris, I don't know how married you are to Jeremy Swayman over Spencer Knight. Do you have an inclination to go.
- [67:30]
D
Knight?
- [67:32]
I certainly. I think the way that Spencer has played this year has been outstanding. I mean, the other thing that I'm going to come back to is it's. It's going to be Jeremy Swayman. You know, he. He was the goalie for the gold medal game at the world championship. Had a shutout in that game. You know, I feel like that decision was made a long time ago, and I don't think that it's going to.
- [67:54]
B
Change. Scott, Corey, either of you want to come over to the Swayman.
- [67:57]
E
Side? We could put Swayman on there. It's fine. I just disagree, but it's.
- [68:01]
D
Fine. Yeah, I mean, I. I think Spencer's playing better.
- [68:03]
C
So. Yeah, I actually had both Knight and Swayman on my team and didn't have.
- [68:06]
B
Ottenjer. Oh, you left Ottinger.
- [68:08]
C
Off. Yeah, I'm okay either way. I. I think you ride the hot hand in this kind of a format, but I did have Swayman as my number two at night as my number three, so I'm. I'm definitely good with Swayman being the number.
- [68:19]
B
Three. All right, well, that does settle that. And there's our team. There's more. Our Team usa. And that is going to do it for us. Thanks for listening. This episode of the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect series. You can, of course, catch more of Chris over at Flow Hockey.
- [68:31]
E
And.
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Ready to.
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D
Order?
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G
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B
Here.
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His podcast called up. We'll talk to you soon.