Building Team USA and Canada Olympic Rosters

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Athletic Hockey Show

Episode: Building Team USA and Canada Olympic Rosters

Date: October 30, 2025
Host: Haley Salvian & Sean Gentile
Guest: Shayna Goldman

---

Overview

This episode dives into two major themes:

• Early-season NHL "vibe check"—which teams and players are exceeding or lagging expectations.
• Deep discussion and debate around constructing Team Canada and Team USA men’s hockey rosters for the upcoming Milano Cortina Winter Olympics, including spicy hot takes and tough roster decisions.

The conversation features insight, witty banter, and sharp analysis, geared for diehard hockey fans as the Olympic selection process intensifies.

---

NHL Early-Season Standings & Vibes

[03:07–19:28]

Early Standings Surprises

• Host Haley opens by noting strange early top-five teams (including Devils, Penguins, Utah Mammoth, Avalanche, Canadiens).
• Sean and Shayna poke fun at the over-analysis of "too early to judge," but agree it’s worth noticing looming surprises.

Notable Discussion Points:

• Pittsburgh Penguins: Once expected to fade, are catching eyes with a rejuvenated Malkin and strong showings by reclamation projects like Anthony Mantha.
  • "Who among us thought they would do literally anything this year? … It's more surprising that it's not just Sidney Crosby doing everything."
    —Shayna, [08:31]
• Comparison with past Capitals “aging legend” teams— banking points early keeps fans engaged.
• Note: Frustration with ongoing speculation about Crosby’s future.
  • "Sidney Crosby has said over and over again what he wants and people continue to not take him at his word." —Sean, [11:35]

Utah Mammoth—Breakout Analysis

[12:35–17:02]

• The move from Arizona, young-gun scoring, and finally healthy lineup has the Mammoth exploding.

• Shayna highlights Nick Schmaltz, Logan Cooley, and Dylan Guenther’s impact, and the evolution of Clayton Keller from overlooked talent to legitimate star.

• "We knew Logan Cooley had that star potential... Now you're seeing it in more meaningful games ... It's coming together the right way."
  —Shayna, [13:19]

The Evolution of Great Players

• Sean discusses underestimating players’ jump from “good” to “great”—using Keller as prime example.
• "It is fun to see players jump from being a 7 to an 8-and-a-half. That’s a big part of what we've seen from Keller."
  —Sean, [15:52]

Logan Cooley’s Contract

• Shayna frames the $10 million AAV as smart and in-line with NHL’s shifting salary landscape.
• Comparisons to Jack Hughes’ contract; notes elite center value.
  • "10 million in today's NHL [is] totally different from what it meant before."
    —Shayna, [17:12]

---

Where NHL Teams Get Their Best Players

[18:43–26:52]

Shayna’s Player Pipeline Study

• 91 of the top 150 players (“Player Tiers”) were drafted by their teams; most stars aren’t gained via free agency.
• Florida Panthers/Vegas Golden Knights called out as outlier teams relying heavily on trades.
• Teams increasingly “overpay” to retain top talent, and it’s justified due to the scarcity of elite players in free agency.
  • "You have to draft and develop tier one players. That’s how it’s 10 out of 10.”
    —Shayna, [20:13]

Notable Quote

• “Only 13 of the top 150 players were acquired by their current teams as free agents. That’s wild.”
  —Sean, [21:32]

Draft Value & Moving First-Rounders

• Evidence suggests late first-round picks matter more than GMs may realize—unless you’re a true contender.
• “Even those late first-round picks matter maybe more than we give them credit for.”
  —Shayna, [24:02]

---

Building Olympic Rosters: USA & Canada

[29:03–53:10]

Spicy Roster Takes

[29:03–35:53]

• Shayna's USA Take:
  • Dylan Larkin must be on Team USA and play major minutes.
    • “Get Dylan Larkin on there. Get that man at the face off dot at every chance they go.”
      —Shayna, [29:34]
• Sean's USA Take:
  • Cole Caufield belongs on the roster over veterans like Patrick Kane.
    • “Put him on and take Kane off ... We need Cole Caufield just for the sake of fun, because he’s been good!”
      —Sean, [31:29]
• Debated using “shooters” like Caulfield vs. sticking with experienced playmakers.
• On Kane: “If you’re trying to put out the best roster, I—you know, maybe Caulfield isn’t the guy that replaces him, but I think you can do better than him [Kane] in some capacity.”
  —Sean, [34:11]

Nick Suzuki for Canada:

• All agree his offensive and all-situations growth merits a secure Olympic slot.

Team Canada: Tom Wilson & Emerging Stars

[35:53–42:55]

• Sean asserts Tom Wilson is lock-worthy:
  • “If everyone wants to sit there and obsess over the element the Kachuks bring to the US team—fine ... I think Wilson, you know, if you’re looking for counterbalance, you got it.” —Sean, [36:03]
• Shayna: “He can now go up against top competition and play a shutdown role… it’s not just the physicality, it’s not just the offense.”
• Sam Bennett and Travis Konecny discussed as possible fringe/controversial picks.

Bedard or Celebrini as Canada's Teen Prodigy?

• Consensus: Only one will likely make the team.
• Shayna's pick: Celebrini—due to maturity, multi-situational play, and prior international experience.
  • “If Celebrini doesn’t slow down in the next month, I would pick him.” —Shayna, [42:55]
• Sean points out: “His game is already such that you don’t need him to be top six; he can play effective depth roles.”

Crowd-Sourced Roster Projections

[45:15–52:09]

Team Canada Forward Pool (sample projection):

• Sidney Crosby, Nathan MacKinnon, Connor McDavid, Mitch Marner, Brad Marchand, Braden Point, Sam Reinhart, Mark Stone, Nick Suzuki, Tom Wilson, Anthony Cirelli, Macklin Celebrini, Brandon Hagel, +1 (Jarvis/Schiefele/Bennett debated)
  • “If you want versatility, go for a Jarvis or Bennett over Scheifele." —Shayna, [46:05]

Team USA Forwards (sample projection):

• Jack Hughes, Jack Eichel, Auston Matthews, Clayton Keller, Dylan Larkin, Jake Guentzel, Kyle Connor, Tage Thompson, Matt Boldy, Brady Tkachuk, Matthew Tkachuk, J.T. Miller, Cole Caufield, +1 (Nelson/Nyes/Kane debated)
  • “I think it’s very clear like Jack Hughes isn’t going to be viewed as a center—there probably. Shouldn’t.” —Shayna, [51:43]

The Kachuk Brothers’ Health

• Both need to be healthy and productive for the USA’s spark:
  • “That’s the secret sauce for them—they have all the BS, but they augment it with being elite hockey players.”
    —Sean, [48:40]

Fringe Debates

• Matthew Nyes for USA? Unconvinced.
• Patrick Kane’s Olympic spot? Out, sentimentally missed but "if we’re building the best team, gotta move on."
• Sam Bennett for Canada? “If you have a Wilson, do you need a Bennett?”
  —Shayna, [40:13]

Goalie Hot Take!

• Shayna: “My hot take—it's going be Jeremy Swayman that takes over [for Team USA].”
  —Shayna, [52:46]

---

Memorable Quotes & Fun Moments

• “Who among us can watch all of the games when they’re all on at the same time, honestly?”
  —Shayna, [06:17]
• “Delete Facebook. Why? Yeah, stop doing this.”
  —Haley, poking fun at fake hockey rumors, [12:01]
• “Nobody, no American, has more goals than Cole Caufield in the NHL right now.”
  —Haley, [34:57]
• “Are we friends? Or are you here to build a roster?”
  —Shayna, roasting debates about legacy picks, [34:54]
• “We've simply built a Team Canada that's too powerful for my taste.”
  —Sean, [46:49]

---

Closing Stick-Tap: Brad Marchand's Kindness

[58:59–61:45]

• Brad Marchand missed Panthers practice to coach a friend’s U18 team to support after a bereavement.
• “Just an incredible show of support and friendship from Brad Marchand ... Just a really beautiful gesture by a guy who’s showing that deeper well than people maybe thought when everyone was hating him and calling him a rat.”
  —Haley, [61:45]

---

Key Timestamps

• [03:07] — Opening; NHL early standings surprises
• [12:35] — Utah Mammoth's breakout, Logan Cooley contract
• [18:43] — Where top NHLers come from; Shayna's Player Tiers story
• [29:03] — Transition to Olympic roster debate
• [29:34] — Spicy USA take: Dylan Larkin
• [31:29] — Spicy USA take: Cole Caufield over Patrick Kane
• [35:53] — Team Canada: Tom Wilson, Sam Bennett, youth movement
• [42:55] — Bedard vs. Celebrini debate
• [45:15] — Building Canada and USA forward groups in real-time
• [52:46] — Goalie hot take: Swayman for USA
• [58:59] — Brad Marchand’s off-ice leadership, final note

---

Takeaways & Tone

• The discussion is insightful, fast-paced, and sometimes irreverent, but always grounded in sharp analytics and up-to-the-minute league knowledge.
• The hosts and guests challenge each other—especially on legacy vs. emerging star debates.
• Both Team Canada and USA face deliciously hard choices—fans can expect big names to be left home and “new guard” players to rise.

---

Summary by Key Themes

1. Early Season Surprises

• Penguins and Utah Mammoth are ahead of schedule; lessons about not judging too quickly.

2. NHL Roster Construction Trends

• Elite NHLers overwhelmingly homegrown; blockbuster trades/free agency are increasingly rare sources of top-end talent.

3. Olympic Roster Debates

• Stakes and emotions run high with calls for youth, speed, and skill to overtake reputation.
• Names like Larkin, Caufield, Suzuki, and Celebrini at center of debates.
• Patrick Kane and other veterans likely squeezed out in favor of current form.

4. Human Side of Hockey

• Closing with Marchand’s selfless act highlights how the sport’s community bonds run deep.

---

For Listeners Who Missed the Show

This episode gives a lively, richly detailed look at how elite hockey teams are built—at both club and Olympic level—through stats, scouting acumen, and tough choices. Jaw-dropping stats (the lack of free agency stars!), genuine hot takes (youth vs. vets), and plenty of good-natured chirps are on offer.

If you want to be prepared for the coming Olympic debates, this one’s a must-listen—or just use this summary and argue your friends into oblivion.

Transcript

[Capital One Bank Guy]

Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts and no overdraft fees. Just ask the Capital One bank guy. It's pretty much all he talks about in a good way. He'd also tell you that this podcast is his favorite podcast too. Ah, really? Thanks. Capital One bank guy. What's in your wallet? Term supply see capitalone.com bank capital1na member fdic.

[Jeffrey]

Morning Zoe. Got donuts.

[Dana]

Jeff Bridges why are you still living above our garage?

[Jeffrey]

Well, I dig the mattress and I want to be in a T Mobile commercial like you Teach me so Dana.

[Dana]

Oh no, I'm not really prepared. I couldn't possibly AT T Mobile get the new iPhone 17 Pro on them. It's designed to be the most powerful iPhone yet and has the ultimate pro camera system.

[Jeffrey]

Wow, impressive. Let me try. T Mobile is the best place to get iPhone 17 Pro because they've got the best work.

[Sean Gentile]

Nice.

[Dana]

Jeffrey, you heard them.

[Jeffrey]

T Mobile is the best place to.

[Sean Gentile]

Get the new iPhone 17 Pro on.

[Jeffrey]

Us with eligible traded in any condition. So what are we having for launch?

[Dana]

Dude, my work here is done.

[Commercial Announcer]

24 month bill credits on experience beyond for well qualified customers plus tax and $35 device connection charge credit same and balance due if you pay off earlier. Cancel Finance Agreement. IPhone 17 Pro 256 gigs 1099.99 and new line minimum 100 plus a month plan with auto pay plus taxes and fees required. Best mobile network in the US based on analysis by Oaklove Speed Test Intelligence Data 1H 2025 Visit t mobile.com we.

[Sean Gentile]

Will answer your call as soon as we can.

[Capital One Bank Guy]

Are you still running your business? With one creaky old phone system, missing calls, losing track of messages, and scrambling to keep up with your team? It's time to break up with the past and say hello to Kuo. Kuo is the number one business phone system with 4.7 stars across 3,000 reviews on G2. Quo brings all your business phone calls and texts into one app for your team. No more juggling devices or being tied to a landline. Quo's built in AI logs calls, creates summaries, automates follow ups, and can even answer and route calls so you never miss an opportunity. Whether you're a solo operator or leading a growing team, Quo keeps you connected and helps you deliver standout customer experiences. Join over 90,000 businesses using Quo and see why. It's the one business phone system for customer satisfaction. Level up your workflow with Quo. Get started free plus get 20% off your first six months at Quo.com Tech. That's Quo spelled Q-U-O.com Tech and if you have existing numbers with another service quo will port them over for free. Quo. No missed calls, no missed customers. This is the Athletic Hockey Show.

[Haley Salvian]

What's up, everyone? Welcome to the Athletic Hockey Show. It's Haley Salvian and Sean Gentile here with you on another fine Thursday. Not a ton of action in the NHL on Wednesday night, just one game between the Toronto Maple Leafs and Columbus Blue Jackets. We can thank the Frozen Frenzy for that one. But instead of breaking down the games, we're going to jump around the league with our pal Shayna Goldman instead and and discuss her great piece about where NHL teams get their best players. We're also going to take a look at some pressing Olympic roster questions because we are officially under 100 days away from the Milano Cortina Olympics. But first, as always, let's bring in the one and only Sean Jintilly. What's up?

[Sean Gentile]

Are we going with Milano Cortina permanently there? Is that. Is that the correct way to refer to this whole operation?

[Haley Salvian]

On first reference, that's technically correct.

[Sean Gentile]

Is it is Milan Milano in Italy.

[Haley Salvian]

Milano Cortina. That's the Olympics. That's the official name of the Olympics.

[Sean Gentile]

I thought we were going to talk about Blue Jackets maple leaves for 45 minutes. You just do that, right?

[Haley Salvian]

Do you want to do that instead?

[Sean Gentile]

Yeah, I got a good 22 minutes on. On Jer Shinova in me for sure. Very, very simple. Nope, I don't know who that is. I have no opinions on that man.

[Haley Salvian]

Mitch Marner's absence on the power play.

[Sean Gentile]

Oh my God. I get that. Maybe almost felt sick to my stomach just hearing that. Just the idea of analyzing such a thing makes me.

[Haley Salvian]

Makes me ill. Well, the Toronto mate beliefs are now 11 games through the season. Most teams in the NHL are around that 10 game mark into 20, 25, 26. Which feels like a great time to do some early season vibe checking. And there is nobody better to do that with than Shayna Goldman, who joins us now. Shayna, thanks for doing this. How's it going? What are the vibes for you right now?

[Shayna Goldman]

The vibes are that we need to talk about the Toronto Maple Leafs because they demand our attention. I mean. No, Come on.

[Haley Salvian]

We simply must.

[Sean Gentile]

I get enough of that. I have a five of former Leaf and maybe the world's foremost Leaf fan in my ear for an hour and a half every. Every Wednesday. I don't need it from you guys either. That's enough. That's enough.

[Haley Salvian]

Are you talking about Frank or Frank or other Sean?

[Sean Gentile]

Yeah. McAdoo played for the Leafs. Did you not know that? He was part of, like, the Darcy. He wasn't aligned with Darcy Tucker for a while in the 90s.

[Haley Salvian]

I thought McIndoo was the one that was always in the press box. Yeah, that's eating his little bag of popcorn.

[Sean Gentile]

That's him.

[Shayna Goldman]

He has the right idea with the popcorn, at least. I mean, it's the only snack you should be eating at a game.

[Haley Salvian]

It's true.

[Sean Gentile]

Shana Haley brought up the vibe check. Is it. Is it back for this season? Because I feel like that always. I always look forward to it because I feel like it covers up some. Some. Some blind spots for me from not being able to watch every game all the time, unlike. Unlike certain other people. Is it. Is it back for 25, 26?

[Shayna Goldman]

I mean, who among us can watch all of the games when they're all on at the same time, honestly? But, yes, it's back. It runs today because we do not need 10 games or 12 games or whatever is on the Thursday schedule to destroy the story.

[Sean Gentile]

It's part of the fun of power rankings, too. Dom and I started doing that. We just made a real bad decision to do it on Thursday night four years ago or whatever, and now we're just locked to it. We're chained to it forever. We gotta wait till 13 games and every night to do it.

[Shayna Goldman]

So, yeah, don't do it on. I moved. I moved my fantasy column for that reason. It is no longer Friday Fantasy trends. I don't care if Thursday is not catchy. Thursday it is.

[Sean Gentile]

We're. We're. We're. We're stupid people. Dominique, you've. You figured it out in a way that we haven't.

[Haley Salvian]

So on this Thursday morning, though, we are waking up and taking a look at the NHL standings, and there's maybe two teams, one for sure, maybe two, depending on where your allegiances lie, that we could have expected in the top five in the NHL standings this season. I would say so. Number one, it's the Devils, the Pittsburgh Penguins, the Utah Mammoth, the Colorado Avalanche, which would have been the given, at least for me, and then the Montreal Canadiens. Some teams mixed in there that we could have thought would be interesting, but also some teams that we thought were going to be terrible. I definitely know that Sean said the Penguins were going to be bottom five. I heard him say it. I heard him say it, and he's still saying it, but Shayna, how do you look at this little crew? How surprising is the current top five? We know it's early. We can preface it with that. We still. We still have to talk about it. If not, we'd have nothing to talk about.

[Sean Gentile]

I'm so tired of prefacing everything. We know it's early. I got.

[Shayna Goldman]

From everyone who I complained.

[Sean Gentile]

About it earlier today, like, I get it. We have to say just. I just. I wish. I wish we didn't have to.

[Shayna Goldman]

I feel like I didn't once in my column, now that I think about it. So I can't wait for everyone to be like, h, we've decided everything. As if it's not seven to 10 games. I think I forgot. I think I just erased it from my brain of like, I'm not doing that anymore. Yeah, but whatever.

[Haley Salvian]

What do we think? How. How surprising is that top five?

[Shayna Goldman]

I mean, the Penguins are the oddball because who among us thought they would do literally anything this year? And I think it's more surprising that it's not just like Sidney Crosby doing everything. It's Afghani Malkin having this massive bounce back year and Brazo and Mantha scoring a ton. So they are definitely surprising, but at least they're interesting. Right? Like, it could be a lot worse. We could be watching the Penguins games, trying to enjoy these like, last couple seasons of Crosby and watching the world's worst game on earth, which is pretty much what we all did last year.

[Sean Gentile]

Yeah, it's similar, I think, to some of the vibes that we had not last year with the Capitals, but the year before that, the first carbery year where everybody was like, okay, this seems gonna suck. It's gonna be a slog to the Gretzky record for Ovechkin. Like, let's see if we can get some half decent hockey out of it. But I don't think anybody expected them to be, you know, the watch that they've been for the last couple years. Like, this is. That's the vibe that I'm getting from Pittsburgh right now. And I'm not trying to compare Dan Muse to Spencer Carberry straight away. Right. Even though both are. Both are bald men.

[Shayna Goldman]

How many NHL. What was it last year? And it was like Huska taking over Carberry, or was it two years ago and it was just like. And Greg Croton and just a bunch of bald men with glasses.

[Sean Gentile]

Yeah, this is. But this is bald excellence on the part of Spencer Carberry and Dan Muse, so congrats to them. But I think there is some shared DNA there. I think some, some of the effect that Muse has had on that team is similar to what we saw from Carberry early on. And I think some of the dialogue and some of the discourse surrounding Pittsburgh this season is similar. Where it's like, okay, well, you know, I think we're at the point now where it's fair to say that they're not going to suck as badly as we thought they were going to suck. And that first year under Carberry, yeah, the Caps had the gold differential of minus a zillion or whatever it was, but you know, they banked points early and they strung together enough to be relevant down the stretch. And I think there's something to be said for that, for sure. When you have a player who's old like that, whether it's Crosby now or Oveskin a couple years ago, where you're like, okay, we just need some kind of excuse to watch this team. We need something to hold on to that doesn't make this, this depressing affair to watch one of the all time greats, you know, play out the string. I'm getting similar vibes from Pittsburgh at the moment.

[Shayna Goldman]

I mean, until the trade deadline, right? Like, if anybody does get moved, because you definitely have your aging stars and those franchise cornerstones still, like the Caps, David Carlson and Ovechkin. And then you also have these up and coming players. And we just saw Pittsburgh make a couple call ups from the AHL to get some of their young guns in the mix. And then you have reclamation projects, like Anthony Manta has struck out at a lot of different stops, including Washington. So now it's like, okay, what can you do in a different surrounding with a different coach? So you put all together and there's definitely similarities, but it all depend on what they do, if anything, with Raquel, who obviously is injured now, and Rust and Eric Carlson and not Sidney Crosby. Because this is. That is the one discourse. I don't. I'm done until he says otherwise. I don't want to hear it again. He's not leaving until he says it.

[Sean Gentile]

I love it. You're on my side on that one. Thank you.

[Shayna Goldman]

It's annoying.

[Sean Gentile]

I. It's disrespectful. I'm gonna say it again. I said about it so many times, like, Sidney Crosby has said over and over again what he wants and people continue to not take him at his word. And I think that's just one of the crummiest things you can do with a player who's, who's. Who's Spent his career doing the kind of stuff that he has. So. Yeah, I need someone else on my side here.

[Shayna Goldman]

Yeah.

[Sean Gentile]

Haley, you're. I think. I think you've been on. On the right side of stuff, too, for the most part. But no.

[Haley Salvian]

Yeah, mostly because I need my dad to stop asking me about it. And he's gotten duped by, like, fake Bob McKenzie accounts on Facebook over the years. He was like, oh, my God. Breaking news from Boob Mackenzie Crosby. He's been traded to Montreal. And I'm like, delete Facebook. Why? Yeah, that's doing this.

[Sean Gentile]

It's. It's Blorb McKenzie. And there's four underscores, Frank. Like, this isn't. This isn't going to work.

[Haley Salvian]

Yeah. Blorb was probably more respectful to Bob. I hope he's enjoying retirement.

[Sean Gentile]

I'm sure he is.

[Haley Salvian]

Shayna, one of the teams that you have found the most interesting to start the season has been the Utah Mammoth. Their top five in the NHL. Nick Schmaltz is tied for second in league scoring with Nathan McKinnon. What has made the Mammoth so, so fun for you in the early goings here?

[Shayna Goldman]

Maybe it's that I thought they would be good last year and they weren't off the bat because they had so many injuries that I'm like, look, I'm vindicated now. But, like, honestly, it's the pace, it's the. The young gun scoring. Like, I think Clayton Keller is such a sick player. I don't think he gets enough respect because he was in Arizona because the team around him was bad. But now you're seeing him with an actual sporting cast and he looks excellent. And Nick Schmaltz is another guy. Like, I know for fantasy. Every year I'm like, pick this guy up. He plays so many positions.

[Haley Salvian]

I had him last year.

[Shayna Goldman]

Yeah, he's great to have. And. And. And at the beginning of this year, I think his roster percentage was like, 36. But, like, you just see it coming together now. Like, we knew Logan Cooley had that star potential. Now you're seeing it, and you're seeing it in more meaningful games because it was down the stretch. And Sean, that was something we got told for player tiers, too. Like, he did it when it was garbage time. Now do it when it matters. Okay, he's doing it. Gunther's doing it. Paterka looks great. Sergachev. Look at that. He could be a true number one defenseman. It's coming together the right way.

[Sean Gentile]

Keller is just one of my favorite player archetypes, too. Where you know, say three years ago, four years ago, five years ago, you know, he's sick when you watch him, right. Like he does, he's, he's such a great playmaker and he does so much in the offensive zone, but the numbers didn't quite back that up. Like he, he wasn't a great 5 on 5 player. He was, he was a deficient defensive player I think in terms of his impacts for, for a while. So there was always that asterisk that came, you know, next to his name and as part of the discourse surrounding him. And now it's like, nevermind, he's good, he's, he's 85, 90 point, 95 point capable clearly. And is, and he's added enough substance to his game where we can, you know, talk about him in, in some, in some different terms. And, and you've, and you've seen that, you know, those two parts of the game, you know, the, the, the sick factor and then the substance factor kind of dovetail in the, in the right way and really, and really combine to make a player who everybody should just kind of consensus agree is one of, one of the, one of the best in the league. He's, he's fun.

[Shayna Goldman]

Yeah. And that's like all we're asking for is for players to be fun. I think too it's a reminder of, you can teach defensive structure, sometimes it takes a minute, but that shouldn't be priority number one. When you have someone who is such an offensive threat, like maximize their game, help them be the best version of themselves. And then you build on it. You look at someone like Leon Draisaitl who got hyped for the sulky last year, you know, if he killed more penalties, he could have won it honestly. But a couple of years ago like his defensive game was pretty disastrous, but it's fine because he's so good everywhere offensively. And then, oh look, it came together. It takes time for that side to develop. You can teach defensive structure. You're not teaching someone to have that offensive iq, Right. Like you can refine your skills but you're not outright recreating them. And I think that's something so important to remember. So when you have someone like Clayton Keller who has that ability and it was there and I think we were seeing them together, like just let them cook and it'll, it'll come to fruition.

[Sean Gentile]

Yeah. And I think too there's something to be said for, I feel like maybe we don't, you know, collectively we don't, we don't focus on this enough. When a really good player becomes great, I think that's, I think that's a jump that sometimes we miss. You know, when we have these, we have an idea in our head like, okay, this, this player is really, really good at things one through four. He's, he's less, less good at things five and six. And then we just kind of let him stagnate mentally like for us and maybe don't give them the credit that they deserve quickly enough. But it is fun to see players, you know, jump from being a, being a, being a seven do it to an eight and a half. Right. And I, I just, I, I just like, I like seeing it. I think that's a big part of what we've seen from, from Keller and I really sums up a lot of what makes Utah yeah, an interesting watch maybe a year later than we thought they were going to be. Because I, I know she, you and I both thought that we were both on their bandwagon pretty early last year and it didn't quite pan out until the end. But yeah, they're, it's, it's good to see them get off to a good start for sure.

[Haley Salvian]

Logan Cooley signs 10 times 8 year contract Shayna, I know the Wednesday guys talked about this, but what do you like about the bet that the Mammoth are taking on their 21 year old forward here?

[Shayna Goldman]

Well, it's definitely a reminder of like what this new look cap world is. And I feel like people see the number 10 million and they're instantly like, oh my God, this guy's overpaid. Only X number of players should be paid 10 million. Well, like okay, sure, but 10 million in today's NHL, especially next year's NHL when we expect the cap to go up even more is totally different from what it meant before. So I was skimming through of like which centers in year one of their deal. You know, we're in a similar cap hit percentage of what Cooley is and that's 9.6%. Well, Jack Hughes was 9.7%. Someone who didn't have the fastest start in year one. But you saw the pieces come together pretty quickly in his NHL career and now, oh look, that's a superstar player. That is a franchise cornerstone. That is a true number one center and that is exactly the path that.

[Sean Gentile]

Cooley's on in a player who shows up on the dreaded, if you're a player or an agent, the, the, the dreaded biggest bargains list or, or, or certainly should. Right. Like that's that's how we talk about Jack Hughes now. And he's, he's in a world where his brother plays for the same team and is making more money than him. As, as you know, we, we love, we love Luke Hughes. He's, he's, he's going to be great, but he's certainly a less accomplished player than Jack is at this point, too, and he's making a, a pretty significant chunk of change, more than him. So, yeah, it is funny to see how that, how that shakes out.

[Haley Salvian]

All right, Logan Cooley was selected by the Coyotes, aka now the Utah Mammoth, with the number three pick in the 2022 draft, the highest player born in Pittsburgh to be drafted. If we want to give Sean a.

[Sean Gentile]

Little shout out, I gas him up on Wednesday, baby. West Mifflin legend Logan Cooley, let's go.

[Haley Salvian]

Yeah, but this is a nice segue into Shayna's story here that came out on Tuesday about where NHL teams get their players. And it's one thing to discuss Logan Cooley and use him as an example of how important it is to draft and develop your talent. But this story, Shayna kind of lays it pretty plain. 91 of the top 150 players on player tiers came through the draft. Just wondering if you could take us through a bit of that deep dive and your biggest takeaways, because to me, it's looking at, okay, you want to get a stud, you're going to have to do it through good scouting and development and through the draft. But what do you think? You went through all of it?

[Shayna Goldman]

Yeah, I think there are some teams that are going to be exceptions. Right. And the Florida Panthers stand out at one of them because they have 10 players on player tiers. Only two were drafted by the team. And it's Bark off and Ekblood. Two top five picks, but they've benefited from a lot of trades. They have a waiver claim, the loan waiver claim of the top 150, and Gus Forsling, you know, they've made it work and someone like Vegas does, too, but that just isn't the norm. Like, they're the exception to the rule. And anyone else can try to embrace that energy and go off that would be super interesting. But it just isn't the case. You know, like we every year we do player tiers and we look at it to look at who are the best players and which teams have the most players. But there's something to figuring out how you get them, especially when you look at the rising contract world. And I Think how quick everyone is to call every contract an overpayment and that happens with Cooley. It happened with Kyle Connor and Caprice off. But Capricev is one of 10 guys in tier one and you have to drift and develop tier one players. That, that's how it's 10 out of 10. So Karl Kaprisoft, they have that franchise cornerstone. He is a top three winger in the world. It makes sense why you would overpay to retain a star versus starting the process all over again, which would just crush the Wild, you know, if they were to let him walk. Same goes for Kyle Connor. You know, it's a little different. He's a tier three guy and I think it's easy to be like hey, his AV is the same as Marner and Ranson and they are a full tier part. I think it's 2B to 3B. That's a pretty big gap. But even when you account for the differences in 12, 12 million a year from year to year with the salary cap jump, you know that's the jets highest ranked player up front. You know they have Morrissey, they have Hallebuck, but that's their franchise cornerstone at forward. And you look at how free agency dwindles every single year. Every top guy is off the market by July 1st. Could they try for a nature or Kempe at this point? Yeah, absolutely, if they were to lose Kyle Conner. But who's to say they'll even be there on July 1st. So it just makes more sense why teams should be prioritizing, retaining their own guys even if, if you have to overpay a little. Because these are the best players in the world. Literally the top 150 players.

[Sean Gentile]

Yeah, I, I, Martin Neches and Adrian Campy, those, those are, those are really good players. Right. But they can't be your best player if you want to, if you want to truly contend for a cup. I, I think we've, I think we've seen that in some capacity and that kind of leads us into another big takeaway from. The piece for me is I think it's 13 players or out of the top 150 were acquired by their current teams as free agents. We're signing free agency. I mean that's wild. And we hear year after year that the, you know, that the, the pool is thinner than we're used to. And yaddy, we've seen so many players who could have been in the mix, you know, even sign of over the last few weeks. Were you surprised to see the number that Low, because I'm saying this as someone who put together the list with you and knows that thing like the back of my hand at this point. I don't know that I gave enough thought or enough shrift to the idea that 13 out of the 150 top players in the league, according to our little list here, ended up on, ended up on their team, you know, just strictly by the free agency market. That's, that's wild.

[Shayna Goldman]

Yeah, I didn't think it was going to be that low. And then it was a reminder of like all of the signs signing trades or, you know, trading draft rights and I'm sorry, sign signing rates. Guys like Gensel Marner, they technically don't qualify for the free agent list. So it shrunk even more. Same with Logan Thompson in tier five. But yeah, you look at it Tier one, there's zero free agent signings. Artemi Panarin is the lone guy since Marner doesn't count in tier two. Bobrovsky's it in tier three. In tier five, you have eight guys. And I think that really speaks to what we've been seeing in recent years. Right. Like the 2025 class could have been stacked. It wasn't. It was a mid tier guys making it there. It was the Vladislav Gavikovs of the world and that kind of sweepstakes and you know, Nikolai Ehlers versus anybody else. So it makes sense that those are, you know, the very high end supporting cast guys or just outright supporting cast players who don't make the cut. It makes more sense. But I didn't believe it until I saw it in front of me. I really thought maybe 20 players there, you know, like something a little bit higher.

[Sean Gentile]

Yeah, it would have been 20. Like if you had made me set the over under at the start of the process, I'd be like, yeah, and like 19.5. Give it, give or take if I just said it there. Yeah. So to see it, you know, clock in as low as it did was, was honestly eye opening. And again, coming from someone who's looked at that list a zillion times more than I ever care to admit, you know, have having it be that fuse was kind of, kind of wild.

[Shayna Goldman]

Yeah. You can debate the list like all day and we did and we went through every single player and it's like, it's interesting to see too like the players who, you know, the top guys who were traded and the guys who were traded before they ever played NHL games, like, you know, there's a handful of those players on the list, like Fox and Suzuki and Faber and Forsberg. And I think that makes it more interesting too. Like, will teams try to make more bets on that? Or maybe will we see teams move first round picks a little bit less? Because there's so many first round picks on this list. It's have it here, 29 top five picks, 32 other players who were drafted in round one, and then you go through the players who weren't drafted by their current teams. You still have nine players who are top five picks and another 23 who are round one guys. So, you know, we see first round picks get moved around like, like they're candy. And it's. I think some teams can afford to do that, right? Like you're a Vegas, you're Florida go off, right? Because you're looking for that final piece to solidify your group. You already have a ton of players up and down the 150, but if you're anyone below that contender tier, maybe think about it twice, right? Because even those late first round picks matter maybe more than we give them credit for. And if you're a team that's in the middle or rising up the ranks of Montreal, Columbus, maybe don't move those first round picks at all unless you legitimately have so many players on your roster that were those former top guys that you feel confident about it. Mm.

[Haley Salvian]

That was one of the big thoughts I had after going through the stories. Like, I wonder how teams or like how we as analysts will reconcile this idea of like, you want to build with your draft picks and all these players who are like, you know, team grown talent, but also knowing and understanding and appreciating the GMs who are like, I actually don't care about the draft. I'm going to go try to win. We've seen Tampa do it, we've seen Florida do it. We all complain about the Oilers when they don't do it. So there is this interesting juxtaposition of use your draft picks, get that top talent. But also if you're, if you're one piece away, then actually who cares? Like, if you have Connor McDavid on your team, you shouldn't care about a first round draft pick because you have the greatest player in the planet and you should go spend that draft capital, especially when free agency is looking a little bit bleak. Free agency, 20, 26, McDavid, Caprio, Kyle, Connor, Jack, Eel, they've all extended early. So did Jake Wallman, like even Anthony Stolars, I think Panarin and Sergey Bovsky are the only two members of that 2026 class in the top three tiers of player tiers as Sean kind of dropped in the stock. So maybe teams this year should be holding on to their draft picks. I don't know. Let's take a little break, though. Coming up next, we're going to talk about the Milan Olympics. We are under 100 days out. We've got some questions, some topics we can peruse around as we preview the NHL going back to the Olympics. That's coming up next on the Athletic Hockey Show.

[Jeffrey]

Ready to order?

[Shayna Goldman]

Yes.

[Dana]

We're earning unlimited 3% cash back on dining and entertainment with a Capital One Saver Card. So let's just get one of everything.

[Sean Gentile]

Everything. Fire everything.

[Jeffrey]

The Capital One Saver card is at table 27, and they're earning unlimited 3% cash back.

[Haley Salvian]

Yes, Chef.

[Dana]

This is so nice.

[Sean Gentile]

Had a feeling you'd want 3% cash back on dessert.

[Dana]

Ooh, tiramisu.

[Sean Gentile]

Earn unlimited 3% cash back on dining.

[Jeffrey]

And entertainment with the Capital One Saver Card.

[Capital One Bank Guy]

Capital One what's in your wallet? Terms apply.

[Commercial Announcer]

See capitalone.com for details.

[Jeffrey]

Morning, Zoe. Got donuts.

[Dana]

Jeff Bridges, why are you still living above our garage?

[Jeffrey]

Well, I dig the mattress and I want to a T Mobile commercial like you teach me. So.

[Haley Salvian]

Dana.

[Dana]

Oh no, I'm not really prepared. I couldn't possibly at T Mobile get the new iPhone 17 Pro on them. It's designed to be the most powerful iPhone yet and has the ultimate pro camera system.

[Capital One Bank Guy]

Wow.

[Jeffrey]

Impressive. Let me try. T Mobile is the best place to get iPhone 17 Pro because they've got the best network.

[Sean Gentile]

Nice.

[Dana]

Jeffrey, you heard them.

[Jeffrey]

T Mobile is the best place to.

[Commercial Announcer]

Get get the new iPhone 17 Pro.

[Jeffrey]

On us with eligible traded in any condition. So what are we having for launch?

[Dana]

Dude, my work here is done.

[Commercial Announcer]

The 24 month build credit is on experience beyond for well qualified customers. Plus tax and $35 device connection charge Credit send and balance due payoff earlier. Cancel Finance Agreement. IPhone 17 Pro 256 gigs $1,099.99 A new line minimum $100 plus a month Plan with autopay plus taxes and fees required. Best mobile network in the US based on analysis by O Speed Test Intelligence.

[Shayna Goldman]

Data 182025 Visit T mobile.com Third Love makes better bras. Period. ThirdLove was founded by women who were tired of settling for bras that were just good enough. Each piece is made with the highest quality materials to solve for the fit issues so many of us face. Get extra lift Smooth out back spillage and so much more. All in over 60 sizes from double A to H. They even have exclusive half cup sizes, which means if you're in between sizes, you can get the perfect fit every time. Stop settling for average bras and get solutions made for your body. Get 15 off your [e-mail] with code podcast15third love. Your best fit awaits.

[Haley Salvian]

All right, welcome back to the Athletic Hockey Show. As we mentioned, the Milan Olympics are under 100 days out. We've got some roster projections we can take a look at. NHL.com had a couple for a bunch of the teams, especially with Canada and the U.S. shayna Goldman is still here with us. I'm going to put you on the spot here, Shayna, and start with a tough one. Do you have like one really spicy, like Olympic roster? Take it. Could be for Canada or the U.S. is there someone you're like, I need them on the roster now or I need them gone yesterday.

[Shayna Goldman]

I don't know if it's spicy, but I'm gonna go with, I need Dylan Larkin on that roster and I need him playing big minutes or I, I'm gonna be upset. I am on the Dylan Larkin train. I thought he was sick of four nations. I thought he did not play enough. I don't need. And I love Brock Nelson's game. Like, I don't need Brock Nelson there. I, you know, I think you can swap out some centers or just find ways to move them up and it's gonna be tough. You have Matthews, you have Hughes, you know, you have Eichel. But get Dylan Larkin on there. Get that man at the face off dot at every chance they go. You're looking at the Red Wings right now and what they're doing with him. And it's so interesting, like, he's being thrown out there for the initial face off of every penalty kill. And then he gets off the ice within 10 seconds. Just get him on Team USA and let him cook. Let him do whatever he wants.

[Sean Gentile]

I want to, I want to put Cole Caufield on. On the U.S. roster.

[Shayna Goldman]

Yes.

[Sean Gentile]

I'm gonna get him there.

[Haley Salvian]

I. I was saying that at four nations. Everyone respect me.

[Sean Gentile]

And we heard swears so much too, coming out of four nations about how certain players couldn't keep up with the physicality. Certain players didn't show the jam that was required in, in that tournament. I get it. A lot of people with a lot of teams, oh, you want to talk.

[Shayna Goldman]

About Adam Fox and player tiers, we can talk about.

[Sean Gentile]

We can we can. We can talk about Adam Fox, we can talk about Jack Hughes to some extent. I, I think people are not enamored with the tournament he had there. But like, so whatever, we're taking those concerns, we're completely throwing them out. We're saying give me the small gold boy in Cole Caufield and put him on the roster. But I think. I think I want it to happen. And I'm looking at the. I'm looking@the NHL.com 100 days out projection just kind of as my. Is my. Is my. Is my guideline here. Put him on and take Kane off.

[Haley Salvian]

Yes.

[Sean Gentile]

Yes, put him on. And to put him on and take Kane off, that would be my. Sorry. I'm sorry. I. I have a real degree of sympathy for the Patrick Haynes of the world and the Chris Kreiders of the world and these guys who aren't going to be able to play, you know, who are going to miss out on so many Olympic chances due to, you know, the NHL and IHF not being able to play ball over the last bunch of years. I get it. I feel bad for you guys. I've also aged out of Olympic eligibility too, over the last 10 years. But we need Cole Coffield to get involved just to like, just for the sake of fun, because he's been good. Also Caulfield, right. Like, he's added some stuff to his game. So. Yeah, I want to see Caulfield on the ice against. Against Nick Suzuki at some point in internationally. I think I need that.

[Shayna Goldman]

Yeah.

[Haley Salvian]

Suzuki, like in lock territory for Canada for you guys.

[Shayna Goldman]

Yeah. Yeah. He should be. Yeah. Because he's. I mean, the difference between him and a coffee is like Caulfield, everyone will say, well, he's only good at one thing. And it's like. Well, first of all, he's good at more than one thing.

[Haley Salvian]

Good at like the. One of the most important things that you can do, especially in a overtime game against.

[Shayna Goldman]

Yeah, the thing that usa.

[Haley Salvian]

Yeah, yeah.

[Shayna Goldman]

A little bit important there.

[Sean Gentile]

And isn't Nick Suzuki of a type with the player we discussed earlier there or the player I, I brought up earlier? The, the archetype, which is Clayton Keller, like the. The really good player who gets closer to great at some point in. In their career. I think everyone needs to. You know, I. I'm glad to see it. Over the last couple years, as Suzuki's gotten better in, in, in, in. And added to his game and changed it, some of the people who. Who rightfully were not sold on him have kind of Come around and realized that this is a, this is a high end player who deserves to, you know, be in these conversations from the start. We shouldn't be talking about Nick Suzuki as, you know, sneaking on to this roster. I don't think I, I think he probably should have a, I think he should have a spot and I think he should have it comfortably for sure.

[Shayna Goldman]

He was outright their MVP last year. And I don't know, both players look good in the playoffs and they were up against a season team like the Capitals. I wasn't. Look at them going up. They're shrinking away and you know, they're. It's all crap. Like it's, it honestly is. And people will go for Patrick Kane who yes, in his day was an elite player, but also like he's an elite playmaker. You need shooters and you look at the roster and you're like, well, Eichel is an elite playmaker and you know, Jack Hughes is an elite playmaker. You have a lot of those guys already. I would want more shoot first players.

[Sean Gentile]

And if you're going to dock Cole Caufield for a lack of physicality and a lack of size and a lack of jam, like you can dock Patrick Kane at this point in his career, certainly for a lot of that. And he's also not a substantive 5 on 5 player anymore either. So it's like, I get it. I have. Patrick Kane is the best American player of his generation and, and if not the best of all time, you know, at the very tippy, top of the list. I get it. But man, if you're trying to put out the best, the best roster, I, you know, maybe Caulfield isn't the guy that replaces him, but I think you can do better than him in some capacity. Is that cold? Is that mean? Is that, is that like a kick in the butt after. After all, he's meant for USA Hockey.

[Shayna Goldman]

Like, are you friends? Are you here to build a roster? What do we do?

[Haley Salvian]

Nobody, no, no American has more goals than Cole Caulfield in the NHL right now. Like we're not talking about some scrub. He and Jack Hughes are tied for the lead among forwards, I should say, in scoring. They each have nine goals. Next up to Shane is original point. Dylan Larkin has eight. Those are the top American scoring forwards in the NHL right now. Cole Caulfield, Jack Hughes and Dylan Larkin. So these shouldn't be crazy takes, but I think that does speak to what players like a Cole Caufield is up against because of the size, because of the way they Play, but also because you're going up against, you know, the institution that is USA Hockey at times, which is like, we've got to take care of our guys and Patrick Kane is very much one of them. Even if Cole Caulfield should very much be on the roster. But I would rather boot Patrick Kane than like a Tage Thompson. Call me crazy.

[Sean Gentile]

Are we gonna do spicy takes on the Canadian roster too? Yeah, do it. Do you have a quick one there, Shannon?

[Shayna Goldman]

No, go first, go first.

[Sean Gentile]

I got one.

[Haley Salvian]

Sean clearly has one.

[Sean Gentile]

Tom Wilson's on the team already.

[Shayna Goldman]

I could see.

[Haley Salvian]

Yeah.

[Sean Gentile]

Gotta, gotta play himself off like he would have, he would have to be hurt. He'd have to be hurt or bad for, for the next, for the next few months for him to play. If I'm in charge of that group, like for, for him to play his way off. I think the season he had last year, you know, the, the, the, all the first off, he's all the way back from ACL surgery, which there's something to be said for that. But also just that dude's turned into such a well rounded hockey player. He's such a, such a, a playmaker to a degree that he doesn't get credit for. You know, he's meshed with, with, with Dubois and, and, and, and, and produce in a lot of ways. I, and he is, he is. If everyone wants to sit there and obsess over the element that the Kachuks bring to the US Team, fine. I, I, I think Wilson, you know, if you're looking for counterbalance, you got it for, to the Kachuks. You got him there. And also he's just a really good hockey player on his own accord at this point. Like he's on there easily for me.

[Haley Salvian]

Who do you take off? Because I think that's fair. Is it Seth Jarvis because he's so scared?

[Shayna Goldman]

No, I want both of them on there because to me, I look at them and I go, Wilson can now go up against top competition and play a shutdown role. That's now, it's not just the physicality, it's not just the offense. He has that. Seth Jarvis is that pesky all situation player that you need my hot take. Well, first of all, let's see what happens with Mark Stone, what he looks like by then, if he's healthy. I think he's my wild card. The other one is I can go without Mark Shipley. He's a good player. I think there are other players on here that I would rather, I would rather have Seth Jarvis to a Mark.

[Haley Salvian]

Shipley, I think that's fair. I just think Seth Jarvis became kind of the punching bag at Four Nations. Like, he was the one that people were like, I won't stand for that doing anything. I agree. I'm just asking the question. I'm just the host. I think Tom Wilson should be on this roster. And there's an interesting debate of, like, do you want to add him? Like, if nothing else, just because he has that physical presence? Like, is Matthew or Brady Tkachuk, if healthy by the Olympics, going to be trying to drop the gloves in the first four seconds? If it's Tom Wilson over Brandon Hagel on the other side, maybe not. But I also think that the Olympic roles are different. So, like, do you want a guy who's going to get, like, booted? Like, it's more. They're more stringent and strict about the fighting and penalties.

[Sean Gentile]

He's the best than they would have.

[Haley Salvian]

Been at Four Nations.

[Sean Gentile]

He's the best.

[Haley Salvian]

But I think beyond just the physical element that is Tom Wilson, like, I think this is more the point I'm trying to make. Maybe two years ago or three years ago, when people are having this debate, it's like, do we want Tom Wilson for his physical presence? Well, like, no, you can't fight at the Olympics. Well, you shouldn't fight at the Olympics because the penalties are larger, but also, like, he brings more than just that now. And, like, it's okay to acknowledge that Tom Wilson's a good hockey player. He's not just a big hockey man, even though there are benefits to having his physical presence beyond fighting.

[Sean Gentile]

Yeah, there's. There's no fights at the Olympics, really, but there's certainly physicality in the corners. And I think Wilson is still a force there. And he. And he can skate. He can skate still. That was always his superpower, even when he was at his worst with the disciplinary stuff, you know, the 10. 10, eight. Eight years ago. That was part of. That was part of the problem was that the dude skated like a freight train. And. And he. And he was capable of generating a ton of speed and laying down violent, dirty, illegal hits. And he's reined it in now, but he's still, you know, especially two years out from that injury, man, he can. He can skate. So I'll. I'll take him on my team 100 times out of 100.

[Haley Salvian]

Are we cutting Travis Koneckney?

[Sean Gentile]

Yes.

[Shayna Goldman]

I mean, I guess it feels like. I feel like that's gonna cut someone. Yeah. Well, okay, so here's one other name I'll throw out there. And I think it's similar to the Tom Wilson conversation. I am not. It's tough, it's very tough to say this because we all know he's electric when it matters the most.

[Haley Salvian]

I don't know, girl.

[Shayna Goldman]

Sam Bennett's play this year. I am concerned about his start to the year and I am concerned about him within the bounds of Olympic hockey versus and I get it. Listen, I get playoff. Sam Bennett is he, he is as good as it gets. Right. But there's something there that I'm going. If you have a Wilson, do you need a Bennett? Do you need that same element? Do you think he will not like? This is not the NHL with. I'm sure the officiating is going to be controversial, but it's so different from the NHL playoffs where you look at it and go, oh my God, the officiating is God awful. And he's getting away with so many things that he like, that's not going to happen here.

[Haley Salvian]

Officiating is going to be bad in a different way.

[Shayna Goldman]

Yeah. Can he, can he do enough elsewhere, though, to make up for it? Like, I don't. I would like to see a little bit more from him this year.

[Haley Salvian]

And if you can only take one. Are you taking Wilson over Bennett?

[Shayna Goldman]

Yeah.

[Haley Salvian]

In the year 2026.

[Shayna Goldman]

I think I needed, I think I am.

[Sean Gentile]

See, she came around. They all laughed at me.

[Shayna Goldman]

I am with you that he's very. I think the big thing is remembering like a player's health and recalibrating that timeline. That's the key to being like, oh, he's not washed. And I think we have to think about all players the same way now.

[Haley Salvian]

With that, where do we stand sticking with Canada? We'll go back to the US And I honestly feel like the forwards are the more interesting ones. I feel like on both sides, the top Dr. There isn't really like a ton of debate. Maybe I'm missing something here. But we can stick with the forwards for Canada and we're going to ignore the goaltenders completely. That's just not a subject I'm willing to talk about at this time. How do we feel about the Connor Bedard and Macklin Celebrini of it all? Bringing a teenager like Celebrini would be spicy. And that hasn't happened since, like 1998.

[Sean Gentile]

They're not going to be able to fit them both. I, I, I think it's just in.

[Haley Salvian]

Do you take one at all?

[Sean Gentile]

Yes, I think you certainly try to get one on there for sure.

[Shayna Goldman]

Yeah.

[Sean Gentile]

You look who's the favorite, though.

[Shayna Goldman]

Celebrating. He's done. He has. He has a better track record. I think Connor Bedard's been excellent to start this year. I think he looks like the player we all expected him to become. Celebrity did it last year, celebrity is doing it this year. I think you look below the hood and you see the makings of a superstar. You're seeing a superstar, not even the making, screw it. Yeah, you're seeing a superstar player. You look at him on any given night, what he can do in transition. Look at the speed, look at the creativity, look at the shot, the passing, every part of it. I don't think Bedard's done it consistently enough. And it's not to say that he won't this year, but if Celebrini doesn't slow down in the next month, I would pick him.

[Haley Salvian]

I said 1998. That was the first time NHLers were allowed in the Olympics. So, like, if we're actually having this discussion about, like, he would be the first teenage NHL player to make Team Canada, they've never taken a team. So as great as Celebrini is, and I agree, I would take him. He also, we've talked about this before. Like, he went to world championships when Bedard didn't. Not to constantly pit them against each other, but like, come on, this isn't happening in a vacuum. Like, if you're going to take one, I take the kid who's already been taken face offs and going to training camp with Sidney Crosby. But taking a teenager to the Olympics is as much as he shouldn't be a long shot based on his play, it kind of is based on, again, the system institution that we're dealing with here.

[Sean Gentile]

I can't get the sequence leading up to that goal by Will Smith at the Garden out of my head as it relates to Maclin Celebrini. Like, he creates a shot in front, puck kind of squirts out to the corner, he chases it down, wins a puck battle, finds Will Smith in, in the spot. Like, that's the kind of stuff that the decision makers for Team Canada or whoever else are going to remember whenever it comes time to choose one over the other. Because that's the sort of stuff that, that you need from a fourth line player at the Olympics. Like, God bless Connor Bedard. He was incredible on, on Tuesday night. We gas him up on, on the Wednesday show. Like, he's, he's shown plenty. He's in and he's Shown a little bit more bite, I think, than we've seen in the past. But celebrities game is already such that unless you. That you don't need him to be on a top six, you can say, buddy, go. Go play. Go play. Right wing on a fourth line. And he. And he's got the size and whatever else that it takes to really make that stand up. So yeah, I. We don't need to go into the. The pit pitting them against each other. I personally think it's fine because, you know, this is sports and we're allowed to like certain guys more than other guys. Like, that's just kind of the way it goes. But I think as it relates, as it relates to the, to the Olympic roster, man, I like. He's. He's the dude. 10 times out of 10 for me, I'm in.

[Shayna Goldman]

I'm all in.

[Sean Gentile]

Let's go.

[Haley Salvian]

Can I propose some players here then? I can't count fast live, so check me if I haven't set enough people, but here's like a Canadian forward group that can go to the Olympics. Anthony C. This is in alphabetical order for the most part. That's not my first player on, even though he's great. Anthony Culli, Sidney Crosby, Brandon Hagel, Nathan McKinnon, Brad Marchon, Mitch Marner, Conor McDavid, Braden Point. Sam Reinhart, Mark Stone, Nick Suzuki, Tom Wilson, Macklin celebrini.

[Shayna Goldman]

Think that's 13.

[Sean Gentile]

It's not a hockey team I want to play against.

[Shayna Goldman]

No.

[Haley Salvian]

Can we? Who else? And then we have room for one more like a Seth Jarvis or Shifely or Bennett or someone.

[Shayna Goldman]

Yeah, I like that. And I think. I think if you want versatility, you go for a Jarvis or potentially a Bennett over Scheifely.

[Haley Salvian]

Yeah.

[Shayna Goldman]

But I like that a lot.

[Haley Salvian]

Those three for the last spot.

[Shayna Goldman]

Yeah, I like the idea. The young guys on there too, like changing of the guard in. In motion. Right. Like, you only have so many guys who are going to be able to play with Sidney Crosby because they missed many Olympic years. And I feel like something about that, it's like sticking with me, like, okay, let these younger guys go.

[Sean Gentile]

How old do you think Seth Jarvis is?

[Shayna Goldman]

He's in his 20s.

[Haley Salvian]

He's like 24, 26.

[Sean Gentile]

He is 23 years old.

[Shayna Goldman]

Okay. Younger guy.

[Haley Salvian]

I was going to say he's either way younger or, like, older than I thought.

[Shayna Goldman]

Yeah.

[Sean Gentile]

Yep. That was the mustache or what. But, like, people think he's older than he is. We've simply built a team Canada. A team Canada. That's too powerful for my taste. I don't. I don't care for this.

[Haley Salvian]

We can look at the US Quickly here. Before we let Shayna go, though, like, is there any other thought on the US Forwards, like, the health of the Chuck brothers is obviously a concern for the US they're both out with injuries. Each likely will be back in the NHL before the Olympic break. Unless there's some crazy or negative updates on the both of them. But, like, are they going to be as impacted as you would hope that they would be? Especially when we talk about. Not we, us three, but a lot of people in the media and people in hockey like to talk about, like, that's going to be the secret sauce or the wild card for the Americans is that they have the Kachuks who bring a different element to the table. So that's a concern for them. I'm not willing to take them off the roster at this point.

[Shayna Goldman]

No, no.

[Sean Gentile]

They have to be healthy and they have to be generating offense. None of that stuff matters. Whether it's the NHL or in international hockey or whatever. That stuff's nice. It's popcorn to some extent, though. Like, you need. You need production, you need goals, draw, maybe draw some penalties. Like, if. If that's not happening. If it's just sideshow stuff and, you know, the. The certain elements that we saw during the Four nations tournament, man, like, none of it. None of it matters. The good thing is, like, they're great hockey players. That's the secret sauce for them, is that. Is that they have all the bs but they augment it with being elite, elite, elite hockey players. So if you can't have one without the other. And I think the hope for the US Certainly has to be that they're capable of bringing both by the time February rolls around.

[Haley Salvian]

Do we cut Kreider, Nelson and Tro check off the U.S. roster after Four Nations?

[Sean Gentile]

Yes.

[Haley Salvian]

Yeah, I think we comfortable. Oh, go ahead, Shayna.

[Shayna Goldman]

Oh, no, I was going to say, like, I think Crater, like, he might be bouncing back this year, but you don't need it. I think Brock Nelson, like, I think you can find a little bit more uptempo versus you have too many utility guys. I feel like. I feel like Larkin and Miller are them right now. I think the only way you have a Nelson or Trocheck make it is if for some reason, Miller doesn't. And that just goes to, like, the injury conversation because unlike the Chucks, he is playing through an injury and, like, it's holding him back. Like, if he's Actually good by then it's one thing if he's not. I think a Trojack could replace him. I think a Nelson could easily replace him.

[Haley Salvian]

So some ads we can play with here. We all agree we want Cole Caufield and we want Tage.

[Sean Gentile]

Goals.

[Shayna Goldman]

Do we?

[Haley Salvian]

And then we're adding Keller. I mean adding Clayton Keller.

[Shayna Goldman]

A must.

[Haley Salvian]

What about Matthew Nies? Was he on the four nations roster?

[Shayna Goldman]

No, I don't think so.

[Haley Salvian]

Are we adding Matthew? Nice.

[Shayna Goldman]

I'm not there yet.

[Sean Gentile]

If he didn't play for the Toronto Maple Leafs, he wouldn't be in a consideration here.

[Shayna Goldman]

Yeah, I think that's kind of my feeling too. And it's like he's not. He's playing Matthews right now like he has one of the best centers in the world. World. And I, I'm. I'm not insulting his season, but I'm insulting.

[Haley Salvian]

Steal that.

[Shayna Goldman]

No, it's not good enough. I think there's better options. I rather see Matt Baldi get those prime minutes. I'd rather see more Kyle Connor who I don't know can still score. Yeah, he's scoring goals right now. He looks pretty damn good and I think his play driving's up too.

[Sean Gentile]

Matt, Matt. Matt P. Might have been their best forward at that tournament. He was incredible.

[Haley Salvian]

Okay, so to wrap up because this was a big forward conversation. Let's go. Us forwards count with me. We'll go Matt Boldy, Kyle Conner, Jack Eichel, Jack Hughes, Jake Gensel, Clayton Keller, Dylan Larkin, Austin Matthews. Are we keeping J.T. miller?

[Sean Gentile]

I think J.T. is going to make the team.

[Shayna Goldman]

Yeah, I think he's gonna make.

[Haley Salvian]

Okay. J.T. miller, Brady Tkachuk, Matthew Tkachuk, Tage Thompson, Cole Caufield.

[Sean Gentile]

13.

[Haley Salvian]

And now we have room for Matthew Nyes or Patrick Kane or one of the other old heads that we cut.

[Sean Gentile]

I like that he tried to drag me into another J.T. miller debate. Too smart for that.

[Shayna Goldman]

No, he's there. He's the.

[Sean Gentile]

It'll never happen again.

[Shayna Goldman]

Put him as for Cook.

[Haley Salvian]

Add Brock Nelson back.

[Shayna Goldman]

I would be fine with that. I mean I like Brock fine with that.

[Haley Salvian]

Nelson or Nelson over Matthew Knives?

[Sean Gentile]

Nelson or nice Patrick Kane.

[Shayna Goldman]

It's not bad to have the extra centers too because I think right now it's very clear like Jack Hughes is not going to be viewed as a center. There probably shouldn't. That's totally fine. And Tage Thompson is playing wing and he's playing much better.

[Sean Gentile]

So he's not a center.

[Shayna Goldman]

Yeah, I think other guys like a Miller. You could Shift back and forth, but I don't. I think having that extra center is not a bad thing.

[Haley Salvian]

Okay. I think the Canada forward sound more fun to me personally.

[Sean Gentile]

Oh, what. What about goaltending? It's like frame. Frame removes. There's like a. Like the. Someone pulls the. Pulls the plug. We'll talk about that later. I guess some other time.

[Haley Salvian]

Will find himself again.

[Shayna Goldman]

Oh, yeah. Bottom three goalie in the league right now. He'll turn it on when he take.

[Haley Salvian]

A stroll through Milan and be so inspired and feeling so patriotic.

[Sean Gentile]

Yeah.

[Haley Salvian]

And he's going to stop every puck and beach ball that comes near him. It's going to be great. And Connor Hellebuck will panic once he realized the stakes of the tournament. And Canada's gonna win.

[Shayna Goldman]

Here's my hot take. It's gonna be Jeremy Swayman that takes over.

[Sean Gentile]

I love it. Love it.

[Shayna Goldman]

I like Jay Gonger. I think it's gonna be Swamin.

[Haley Salvian]

All right, well, we've got 99 days to debate all this. Sorry we didn't get a chance to go into the defenders. I feel like we should have just talked about this for the whole show. That's my fault. I had the host.

[Sean Gentile]

It's been a while. Gassing up Clayton Keller. I have no. No beef with that. All right.

[Haley Salvian]

Thanks, Shayna.

[Shayna Goldman]

Thank you, guys.

[Haley Salvian]

That's it.

[Shayna Goldman]

We did it.

[Haley Salvian]

Yeah, we did it. Okay, we're gonna take a break. We're gonna let Shayna go, and Sean and I come back, we're gonna gas up Brad Marchand. I've had enough of these Americans. Let's talk about a nice Canadian boy. That's coming up next on the Athletic Hockey show.

[Shayna Goldman]

Foreign.

[Capital One Bank Guy]

Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts and no overdraft fees. Just ask the Capital One bank guy. It's pretty much all he talks about. In a good way. He'd also tell you that this podcast is his favorite podcast too. Ah, really? Thanks. Capital One bank guy, what's in your wallet? Term supply. See capitalone.combank capital1.na member FDIC.

[Jeffrey]

Morning, Zoe. Got donuts.

[Dana]

Jeff Bridges. Why are you still living above our garage?

[Jeffrey]

Well, I dig the mattress, and I want to be in a T Mobile commercial like you. Teach me. So, Dana.

[Sean Gentile]

Oh, no.

[Dana]

I'm not really prepared. I couldn't possibly AT T Mobile get the new iPhone 17 Pro on them. It's designed to to be the most powerful iPhone yet and has the ultimate pro camera system.

[Jeffrey]

Wow, impressive. Let me try. T Mobile is the best place to get iPhone 17 Pro because they've got the best network.

[Dana]

Nice Jeffrey, you heard them.

[Jeffrey]

T Mobile is the best place to.

[Sean Gentile]

Get the new iPhone 17 Pro on.

[Jeffrey]

Us with eligible traded in any condition. So what are we having for launch?

[Dana]

Dude, my work here is done.

[Commercial Announcer]

The 24 month experience on for well qualified customers. Press tax and $35 device connection charge credit send and balance due if you pay off earlier. Cancel Finance Agreement iPhone 17 Pro 256 gigs $1099.99 and new line minimum $100 plus a month plan with auto pay plus taxes and fees required. Best mobile network in the US based on analysis by Ooklev Speed Test Intelligence.

[Capital One Bank Guy]

Data 182025 Visit T mobile.com youm hired a new employee. Time to get to work, right? Not quite. First comes HR software for payroll and benefits. Then IT tools to manage devices and app access and finance software for expenses. Oh, and none of these softwares work together. That's sad. Software as a disservice. Rippling lets you run hr, IT and finance on one unified platform with automations that save time and connect your workflows. For a limited time, you can get six months of rippling free when you sign up at rippling.com podcast. That's R-I-P-P-L-I-N-.com podcast. Terms and conditions apply.

[Haley Salvian]

All right, welcome back to the Athletic Hockey Show. A big chat with Shayna Goldman off the top two segments now it's just Sean and I, Sean, really quickly, a big game to keep an eye on today. There's a ton on Thursday, but I think one of the big, big ones here, it's the Chicago Blackhawks and the Winnipeg Jets. Jonathan Toews playing against his former team for the first time since making his return to the NHL and playing in his hometown or for his hometown team, we should say the Winnipeg Jets. What's. That's obviously a big circle. What stands out to you about that game?

[Sean Gentile]

I thought Laz did a great job of summing up on the site earlier this week. You know, just the, the idea of. It's funny. Tave seems like he's still kind of. He. He referred to the Blackhawks as we. In his conversation with. With Laz, which I thought was, yeah, illustrative and kind of. And kind of fascinating. I don't, I don't know if that's just. I'm getting, I'm getting soft as I get older. But, but these, these kind of moments where like we're Just the. The fact that Taves is in Winnipeg already is. Is. Is kind of poetic enough, but the fact that we're going to get these moments over the course of the next however many years of him, you know, these interactions that he has with the Blackhawks when he goes back to Chicago, it's going to be something else entirely. Right. Like, this is. This is something to track. And I think part of it is because Taves is a. Is a thoughtful guy and he's. And he's really transitioned into that mode, clearly, you know, not. Not just. Not just now, but towards the end of his time with. With Chicago, he's willing to be publicly, you know, thoughtful and. And kinda and kind of pensive. And I, I think that, you know, there's something to be said for that, and I think he's bringing a lot to the table with the way he's kind of approaching all this. So, yeah, I, I thought he said some really interesting stuff in the run up to this game. And I'm sure he's gonna say more, you know, once it. Once it's all over.

[Haley Salvian]

And what's interesting is when he says the we. There's maybe two players left from the Blackhawks teams that he would call we. And that last had that in his story, Connor Murphy and Jason Dickinson. Those are the only Blackhawks left that tapes would have spent any significant amount of time with in his time with the organization. But when you see spend so much time there, as much as there's all this, like, a great hometown excitement for him to be in Winnipeg, he's jazzed about Kyle Connor's extension bursting with hometown pride. There is still obviously a really long and meaningful connection with that franchise. And that's going to be obviously a really interesting game to. To watch for Winnipeg jets fans, for Chicago Blackhawks fans, like people who grew up watching Taves at such an important part in his career, obviously a ton of success there. So it's going to be an interesting game.

[Sean Gentile]

Yeah, we get to watch him for a few more months and figure out whether he's still good. That's part of the fun, too.

[Haley Salvian]

All right, one final stick tap to end the show here, Sean. And it's going out to Brad Marchon. There was a tweet on Wednesday.

[Shayna Goldman]

From.

[Haley Salvian]

Panthers practice, no Brad Marchon on the ice. Very quickly, we caught wind online that Brad Marchand was not at practice because he is in Nova Scotia or he was in Nova Scotia on Wednesday to cover for coach JP McCallum after the loss of his daughter. So the Florida Panthers allowed Brad Marchand to go and coach this U18 major hockey league team. For this coach who just lost his daughter. Just an incredible show of support and friendship from Brad Marchand to this team, to his community. Just wanted to end the show with a stick tap to Brad and the Panthers for saying, yeah, we're in the middle of season. Skip, skip practice. It's fine.

[Sean Gentile]

This is more evidence of Brad Marchand, like, finding a way to tap emotional wells that I think people didn't, Weren't. Weren't expecting or 10 years ago. If you'd have said this kind of thing happened, I think. I think publicly people would have been shocked. But we've seen it from him a couple times over the last, over the last week or so. The first time was him going back to Boston and him, you know, having one of the most emotional displays you're ever. You're ever going to see on a. On a hockey rink ahead of that game. And now. And now we see him going back and doing something special for, For. For someone close to him. Yeah, it's a. It's quite a story. And I know, I know there should be some more stuff on the site about this if the story interests you. I think we got you covered there moving forward, because it really is. It's something to be celebrated and something to be. Something to be gassed up. And he deserves. He deserves whatever credit he gets for all this.

[Haley Salvian]

And JP McCallum, who was the coach who lost his daughter, is a close personal friend of Marshawn's. This is on a story from the Daily Face Off I'm reading right now. They have worked together in the off season during training. They've coached various levels of pro. JP has coached various levels of hockey. And there's a statement from the league president in Halifax as well. Quote, this gesture reflects the true spirit of the hockey community in Nova Scotia, one built on compassion, loyalty and connection that extends far beyond the rank. Our thoughts are with jp, his loved ones and the entire Hunters organization. And the game on Wednesday is going to feature the Hunters. That's the team. JP coaches taking on the Halifax masks. Max. And it's going to be a fundraiser to support the family. One of Marshawn's jerseys, a raffle prize during the game. There's an online donation link as well. So, Sean, you put it, put it nicely, just like a really beautiful gesture and by a guy who's showing that deeper well than people maybe thought when everyone was hating him and calling him a rat.

[Sean Gentile]

Yeah. Still do in these kids and these Kids get to say that they were coached by Brad Marchand. Pretty cool.

[Haley Salvian]

Exactly. All right, that's our stick tap to end the show. Thanks everyone for listening to this episode of the Athletic Hockey Show. Thanks to Shayna Goldman for joining us. Sean. Thank you. Thanks to producer Jeff. The prospect boys have the day off tomorrow. Laz and Jesse Granger have the next show on Monday. It's going to be a later in the day release because of the west coast. Let Jesse sleep until like 8:00am Pacific. You know, it's fine. We can all wait.

[Sean Gentile]

I've never moved to a superior time zone, Granger. Come on.

[Haley Salvian]

When I lived in Calgary, I made Mendez weight. I was like, I'm not waking up early for this. I'm sorry.

[Sean Gentile]

Checks out.

[Haley Salvian]

I'm on mountain time.

[Sean Gentile]

Checks out.

[Haley Salvian]

You need to rearrange your schedule around me. Sean and I are going to be maybe back next Thursday. I'm traveling. You'll find out then.

[Sean Gentile]

Stuck with me. In the meantime, if you love to travel, Capital One has a rewards credit card that's perfect for you. With the Capital One Venture X card, you earn unlimited double miles on everything you buy. Plus you get premium benefits at a collection of luxury hotels when you book on Capital One travel. And with Venture X you get access to over 1,000 airport lounges worldwide. Open up a world of travel possibilities.

[Shayna Goldman]

With a Capital One Venture X card.

[Sean Gentile]

What's in your wallet?

[Capital One Bank Guy]

Terms apply. Lounge access is subject to change. See capitalone.com for details.

[Jeffrey]

Morning, Zoe. Got donuts.

[Dana]

Jeff Bridges, why are you still living above our garage?

[Jeffrey]

Well, I dig the mattress and I want to be in a T mobile commercial like you teach me. So Dana.

[Dana]

Oh no, I'm not really prepared. I couldn't possibly at t mobile get the new iPhone 17 Pro on them. It's designed to be the most powerful iPhone yet and has the ultimate pro camera system.

[Jeffrey]

Wow, impressive. Let me try. T mobile is the best place to get iPhone 17 Pro because they've got the best nuts network.

[Sean Gentile]

Nice.

[Dana]

Jeffrey, you heard them.

[Jeffrey]

T mobile is the best place to.

[Sean Gentile]

Get the new iPhone 17 Pro on.

[Jeffrey]

Us with eligible traded in any condition. So what are we having for lunch?

[Dana]

Dude, my work here is done.

[Commercial Announcer]

The 24 month credit is on experience beyond for well qualified customers + tax and 35 device connection charge credit sending balance due if you pay off earlier. Cancel Finance Agreement. IPhone 17 Pro 256 gigs 1099.99 and new line minimum 100 plus a month plan with auto pay plus taxes and fees required. Best mobile network US based on analysis by Oaklove Speed Test Intelligence data 1H.

[Shayna Goldman]

2025 Visit t mobile.com this holiday give the gift that says let's cancel plans and just lounge. Meundies has dropped their new holiday collection, and it's made for maximum cozy we're talking soft as snow, ultra modal fabric, festive prints, and loungewear so comfy your couch might get jealous. Onesies, hoodies, joggers, even delightfully quirky holiday designs. You're welcome. Knock out all your holiday gifting needs with deals up to 60% [e-mail] acast enter promo code acast that's meundies.com acast code acast.