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- [00:01]
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- [01:01]
Max Boltman
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- [01:21]
Corey Proman
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- [01:23]
Max Boltman
the Pros of Socks. For another pro you go to bombus.com audio and use code audio for 20% off your first purchase. That's bombus.com and use code audio. This is the Athletic Hockey Show. Hey everybody, Max Boltman here alongside Corey Proman for another episode of the Athletic Hockey Show. Corey, I don't know if you missed a memo or something. I know we're recording on Friday our usual day but this is the we moved prospect series up this week man.
- [02:11]
Corey Proman
This is.
- [02:12]
Max Boltman
This is the the non prospect version of the Athletic Hockey Show.
- [02:16]
Corey Proman
Well despite what some people do think I actually do follow the NHL as well and I actually know with the players in the league so maybe not. You know, I may not follow as closely as Laz and Haley and Sean do, but I I hope this is still a good show. People people watch and haven't already clicked clicked off at the moment.
- [02:36]
Max Boltman
We appreciate you filling in today. A good one last night in game five four two win for the Carolina Hurricanes. They are on the brink of winning the Stanley cup and a lot of key developments last night. I want to start with the top line for the Carolina Hurricanes. It's been a subject of a lot of discussion. Aho and Svetchnikov quiet offensive playoffs overall not just the Stan final and last night they they Both score Svechnikov 2 goals Aho as a goal. It's the breakthrough that really we've been waiting for from that line.
- [03:05]
Corey Proman
And I think that's always kind of been the calling card of this team is I think you look at this, this team and they have like high end players. Like obviously Slavens are a high end defenseman, Ajo is a high end forward. But overall, this is not a team that is, you know, you know, a superstar built. It's not like how the Oilers were built in previous Stanley cup runs. It's always been their depth. I think that they have three lines that they can roll, four lines, you can 3D pairs. And you know, for a lot, part of a long part of the playoffs, it was the Stankovin line that was driving the bus here. And you know, if there's a stretch here where they don't produce at the same level, it's that if the Ajo line can even get going a little bit, which I think there's plenty of talent on in that group, that it, I mean that this is just why they were such a dominant, even strength team and why they're they're in the Stanley cup finals is they just have so many weapons. Even if, you know, sometimes it's been that those lower lines like the Jankowski and the Carriers that have been chipping in and now if they can get their top guys going here too, it's why they're 60 minutes away here from winning the Stanley Cup.
- [04:10]
Max Boltman
I like the move to put Jordan Martin hook on that top line with them too. I think you had a guy who can go down, finish hits, dig out pucks. Seth Jarvis is a great player, but I think you actually spread yourself out better when you put Jarvis with Jordan Stahl and you have his offense feeding Jordan Stall. We're obviously going to talk about him in a second, but I think Martin Nook, maybe not your classic top line winger, but. But he can do the job.
- [04:32]
Corey Proman
Yeah, it's interesting to see Jarvis kind of struggle a little bit after what I think, you know, he had a couple of just absolutely monster playoff runs and I think is that's what actually got him into those Team Canada conversations. It wasn't his regular season, it was his playoffs, but Martin obviously, you know, very physical, competitive player and the results have spoken for themselves in terms of how that line played yesterday.
- [04:56]
Max Boltman
Yeah. All right, so what, you know, one of the reasons that that line has needed to step up is because the Jordan Stall line has been taking the Eichel match. And you figure, okay, if you can, if you can get that to cancel out. You need someone else to step up. But man, let's go to stall and everything he's done. Because it's not just taking the hard matchup against Jack Eichel. He's got six goals in five Stanley cup final games. Now, as you said on the prospect series over the weekend, probably a guy who was underrated in Selkie voting this season, but it's all coming back around for him at the very most important time of the year.
- [05:26]
Corey Proman
I think that's what's so. What's so impressive about him is just how high a level he's playing at the age he's at, for how long he's been doing this, for the fact he's already won the championships. And for him to still have like that, that grind in his game to want to, you know, play, you know, to be at this level this late into the season, it's, it's really impressive. Like, I mean, he's been to me, the most impressive player in the playoffs and just the do everything element in his game for Carolina. He's on their top power play unit. He's, he's the matchup guy. He's, he's great defensively, obviously scoring big. Go. Everything about this guy's game is just so impressive. And again, they're doing it at the age that he is doing it. Even though I think people google him, they see the numbers aren't great, they think, oh, he's a nice third line center, but I think like on another team where he would be getting, I think, you know, bigger minutes, this would be, I think, a much higher scoring player in a different environment.
- [06:28]
Max Boltman
Carolina is funny because they're the kind of, the reputation is they're this analytics team. Everything's spreadsheets or whatever. Right. But you look at their players and these are all guys that scouts would fawn over. Jordan Stahl, Jacob Slavin, Keandre Miller, the power winger, Andre Svetchnikov. Ajo is maybe a little different look than what you would typically, you know, peg as your number one center. But he certainly gets the job done as a, as a two way, you know, 80 point guy who's got a great defensive conscience. There's a ton of overlap here in the eye test and the numbers and they just do it all.
- [06:58]
Corey Proman
Yeah. Other than the fact that Stankovin and guys like Blake and Jarvis are a little small. All three of those guys are really competitive, especially Stan Covet and Jarvis. Blake's competitive. You have, you know, like I said, I think there's just compete throughout their forward group. Their blue line is big and heavy. Yeah, it's absolutely how they build it. I think where they're going to argue is the way they've acquired these players might be a little different than other teams, but the type of players they acquire tends to have some overlap with how other teams tend to target those players, too.
- [07:28]
Max Boltman
And Ealers too, I guess, would be one more exception that I wasn't thinking of.
- [07:31]
Corey Proman
But, you know, but external acquisition, you know, reasonable contract value, you know, and, you know, a scoring winger that we always talk about on the prospect series, the kind of guy who you tend to be able to find to plug in the hole when you get those other core pieces already in place.
- [07:48]
Max Boltman
And then the other guy, especially as you talk about acquisition Brandon Bussey, Corey, I mean, Brandon Bussey came into game three trailing big time, gets that game to ot. They do not win. But he's won. He's helped them win both of them since. This guy is an unbelievable. He was an unbelievable story early in the year, and it looked like maybe that, you know, it had turned into the pumpkin, so to speak, and here it is back again in the Stanley Cup Final. He's doing it again.
- [08:12]
Corey Proman
That's been the one thing Carolina has always been missing in their. Their runs that haven't gone deep enough has been goaltending. And goaltending can be the hardest thing to predict at times in the playoffs. It can be very variable. But I mean, this has been what they needed. They got it from Freddie early on, obviously. Now he's. It's hard to tell what happened, whether his performance or he's hurt or what's. What's going on with him. But if they can get. I mean, this is the best, best even strength team in the league. They're deep, dominant team that can beat you in a very. A variety of ways. If they just get okay goaltending in the. In this next game or two, you got to think that they're going to win the Cup.
- [08:48]
Max Boltman
It's an interesting kind of Con Smythe debate because I think coming into the series, there was some momentum for Freddie Anderson. Stank event. It's really hard to argue with everything he's done, especially the timing of some of his goals early in games, late in games. And then you got. You know, honestly, I don't. I don't think Bussey's played enough to give him the con swipe.
- [09:06]
Corey Proman
I think so.
- [09:06]
Max Boltman
But the timing, I know that there's going to be some love for it, but stall, I mean, okay, so here's a great stat. So six goals in five games. The only others to do it, John Beliveau, he's the last one to do it in 1956. The other two, Rocket Richard in 51 and Cyclone Taylor from the Vancouver Millionaires in 1918. This is the company Jordan Stahl is keeping here on the offensive side of the puck.
- [09:29]
Corey Proman
Yeah, I think he's the favorite if they win. Like I, I know Stan Coven had a, had a brilliant playoffs and I thought coming out of the third round he would be their front runner. But just given how good Stahl's been in the last round here and throughout the playoffs, if they win the next game, I think he should get the Cod Smythe.
- [09:46]
Max Boltman
Yeah, Stankovin and Hall too, coming into this series. But it's just been a little quieter,
- [09:49]
Corey Proman
you know, in this one and I think setters always get the preference.
- [09:53]
Max Boltman
Yeah, for sure. And it's really hard to argue with Stahl. He's doing it in the most important games. Even though he wasn't maybe scoring earlier in the playoffs, you know, with the matchups, he's taking what an important role
- [10:03]
Corey Proman
he's playing and, and he's not like piling on points. These have been close, competitive games, lead swings and you know, he's been, you know, brilliant in those games.
- [10:14]
Max Boltman
Yeah. All right, let's go the other side of things here for Vegas because, yeah, they're on the brink of elimination here. It's also kind of the way they've lived all season. They have had to face a ton of comeback situations. They've pretty much come back every single time. It's, it's kind of Jesse's running joke on the show is like, yeah, they're down too. They're going to win this game. And you know, now, now they're at the brink of elimination. Carolina certainly has a lot of momentum going for him, but John Tortorella sounds confident. He says he's leaving his clothes at the hotel in Raleigh and they're a really good team.
- [10:45]
Corey Proman
Despite the fact I think Carolina's a little deeper. You know, Vegas has better high end players and if Eichel and Marner have a bit, have a big game six, all of a sudden now, you know, it's very reasonable that we can have a game seven. The question I have for them is going to be more on the goalie front. Obviously everyone's seen that Carter Harts had a bad series. I don't get the apprehension on Tortorella to even like Talk about making a goalie change. I know you don't want to say it out loud because it's like, you know, kind of a confidence kicker, kicker in the nads to heart if they actually did decide to go back to him. But you know, Carter Art basically just got hot there for basically a month and a half. It's not like he had a great season. They were splitting starts there with a number of goalies in Vegas, his numbers weren't very good. He's never really been like this, no doubt number one guy. So I don't know, I think you have to at least talk about making a switch here, especially with, with your season on the line and I don't know if Vegas. I don't know if Vegas can win this series unless they win the goalie battle right now.
- [11:44]
Max Boltman
Jesse had a great article to that effect today, Corey, on like whether Aiden Hill could be their best chance here. My only hesitation on it is that he hasn't played since April 9th. And so if you were going to put him into a game for a third period and you know, let him feel the ice, let him feel the puck a little bit, track it, I think that's one thing. And then maybe you go launch from there. That's bas what happened with Bassi. But two months to go into the net and start an elimination game, that does feel like even a higher degree of difficulty.
- [12:12]
Corey Proman
Yeah, it's just, I get it, like it's not a clear cut decision, but I think given the level of difficulty the heart has been going through, the amount of hockey he's played and the fact that I don't think like he's this all world talent that you like. He's not like Vasilevsky or Shisterkin or Sorokin where you're like, you can't go away from this guy. Like, he's a nice goalie, but he's not like a pretty premium athlete. Ever been a premium goalie in the league? Like, I think you have to at least have a conversation, you know, really assess internally where's his fitness level at? Is he ready to do this? Is he mentally in this in the next game? Like it would be a close call for me.
- [12:50]
Max Boltman
Yeah, well, it's, you know, Carolina just, just saw this, right? Like Anderson probably had not had this, the workload to justify going every other day with him. Now Carolina's path here made that a little bit easier. They hadn't had any long series. But you get into this rhythm and you wonder, okay, is he getting fatig fatigued Is it time to change things up? It's a very similar argument for Hart. Like he didn't have the workload this year and now can you switch it up and go to Hill? Has he just gotten fatigued?
- [13:15]
Corey Proman
It's a really interesting dynamic in how we approach goaltending in the playoffs versus the regular season because in the regular season we've gotten to like this load management thing. Teams realize that goalies can't play too many games before they get fatigued. They got to be cognizant of, you know, of back to backs, three and fours. You know, keep trying to keep the split 65, 35, etc. And then we get to the playoffs and you just ride a guy you know. But I think it's reasonable to wonder whether they should be. Unless it's really is that elite a goalie that the, the drop off is going to be that significant from him to the next guy. I think it's worth having that conversation. But yes to that. You know, not playing two months is a long time and there's, there's, there's risks on both sides of this decision.
- [14:02]
Max Boltman
The other variable here for Vegas is that William Carlson sounds like. Sounds like is not expected to play the rest of this series. He left the game early. Certainly looks like an arm ish injury after the hit he took. It's a tough one. I mean that line with Marner and Howden has been their best line since Carlson came back in these playoffs. In this series it's a 65% expected goal share for those three when they're on the ice together. Obviously they are the top players in the series by that metric. This is a tough one for Vegas to overcome. In addition to the, you know, heart and soul elements that Carlson brings, that line has just been a defining line for them.
- [14:36]
Corey Proman
Do you think he's been the best player that light or have has Howden and Marner been probably more the anchors of that line for you?
- [14:44]
Max Boltman
Well, offensive. I mean they're all good, well rounded players. Certainly the offense is coming from Marner and Howden, but I it's similar to what we talked about with Martinuk earlier. If you have a guy who can do some of that dirty work, you know, Marner certainly capable of playing a good defensive role. But I think Carlson's maybe more built physically for some of Carolina's players for that and it just takes, takes load off him, frees him up to do Mitch Marner things freeze Brett Howden up to score all these big goals. I think you could do you think
- [15:10]
Corey Proman
they move Howden to the middle?
- [15:12]
Max Boltman
Now what's interesting is earlier in the playoffs they were, they were listing Marner as their center. And I would, I kind of argued with Jesse about it at one point because I was putting together a list of the two Cs that were remaining and I was like I should list Howden or Hurdle. And he was like, well, Marner is. And I was like, well, but I think it's Howden. You could kind of debate it. I think Howden is probably how I would view it. Whether however they write it on the stat sheet, I guess is up to them. But yes, that's probably how I would do it.
- [15:36]
Corey Proman
Yeah, I guess my point is more like I think Carl Carlson's an excellent hockey player and it's a big loss. But just when I've watched the playoffs, it's been those two that I think even though they're the wingers, quote unquote, I think they've been the ones that have to be. Have been driving that line more than Carlson, which is not usually how you usually view things, usually a center drive in the wingers. But I've found that those two guys have been the critical components. So while I think Carlsen's a big loss, I still think that line should be in good shape. But you still got to. We'll see how they figure things out.
- [16:07]
Max Boltman
Yeah, still a big piece nonetheless and we'll see how it looks. All right, let's take a quick break right there. We're going to come back, we're going to talk about some other news items in the NHL.
- [16:17]
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- [17:42]
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- [19:35]
Corey Proman
Yeah, I think I know he's gotten beat up a lot and I understand why. When you sign a big contract, when you're on a team that has a high profile that's make deep playoff runs, your performance is going to micro analyze especially with that number on his cap hit. I still think he's a useful NHL player. Like, I think on an average team he's a second pair defenseman. I think on a good team he's like a four or five. Just off of the world championships, he played a big role on team Canada. Like, this is still a useful player. Big, mobile, highly physical. The puck play, the hockey sense has never been super inspiring and the offense has definitely dwindled as he's gotten a little bit older. But he could still be a useful player. I think the Debate is at 9.25, how useful can he be? So I think you're looking at situations for teams that can really absorb a big cap head. You're probably looking at young teams, teams with who haven't dolled out, you know, big money contracts to UFAs. And I think you're looking now. What's going to be interesting with Nurse is you have these two, you know, big free agents, quote, unquote big. You have to debate how big they are in Erasmus Anderson and Darren Radish coming to free agency. I think for pro scouting departments, they're going to have to have serious debates about if we want to go out and get one of those two guys. Where does Nurse fit into this conversation? Nurse is a better defender than both of those guys. Better skater, doesn't have the puck play of either of them. Different, so different player types. But also you're going to have to give Anderson or Radish probably six or seven years as opposed to Nurse at four years.
- [21:04]
Max Boltman
I think that's the key. Right. So if I look at the evolving hockey contract projections, which I think historically have always been pretty good, they've got Rasmus, Anderson projected to get $9 million on a seven year deal. Darren Radish, 8 million on a seven year deal. If I can get nurse at 9 million, 9.25 for four years, cut the term basically in half on both of those guys. I would strongly consider that. I mean, there's certain situations where you need a certain skill set. Right. If I was a team that desperately needed a power play guy, okay, then you know, that's going to incline you a little bit more toward Radish. But I think, you know, especially if you're a team that's like, well, I don't want to extend myself that much and I can give up. What do you think a medium asset for. For Darnell Nurse, that four years starts to be kind of appealing.
- [21:46]
Corey Proman
Radish does scare me a little bit. Like, and I know he Had a wonderful season and I think he's a good player. Like he's a very smart, has the big point shot but his skating is a problem. Is defending I think in the hard minutes is going to be a problem. Like I do wonder a little bit. Like I think he's obviously he's got skill, hockey sense. I do wonder how much he was just a product of that amazing Tampa power play. A product of playing five feet away from Nikita Kucherov every night on the power play. I. He'd scare me especially since, you know, never been a big point scorer. Then at ripe age of 29 he jumps from to a 70 point guy all of a sudden when given the opportunity to run the power play with Victor Headman being out, you know, for a lengthy part of the season.
- [22:35]
Max Boltman
Yeah. And so if you're, you know, the most D needy team that we're always talking about mainly on the prospect show is San Jose. But if you're the San Jose Sharks, why wouldn't you have you got money to burn. You can bring in Darnell Nurse for, for four years and have him be a veteran stabilizing force on your blue line as opposed to going and spending the same money for longer term when you know, certainly we think they're going to draft their future on the blue line at some point this year.
- [22:57]
Corey Proman
Yeah, I think that make a lot of sense and make more sense in spending money on Ferraro too. I think Nurse is probably ahead of Ferraro if you had to pick one of those two players. And I don't know if that's the future necessarily for Nurse, but I think just to. I think there's a lot of frustration that there's nothing on their blue line currently. I think, I think it just would come. It'd make a lot of sense for both parties. Clears cap space for Edmonton, gives San Jose something to work with on the blue line because you presume whoever they draft this year probably is not playing in the NHL right away. Might take a year, maybe even two years for them becoming a really established impact player. So yeah, I think San Jose makes a lot of sense. Philly makes some sense for, for Nurse and really just, you know, you think of young teams like Chicago comes to mind a little bit. They have room on the left side after Vlaszyk, but I think they have got some big money contracts coming up. Can they fit him in? And cap wise, I don't know. But you're definitely thinking of younger teams when it comes to Nurse.
- [23:53]
Max Boltman
Just not to hammer San Jose too hard. But it's like you bring him in, he can venture Sam Dickinson and if whoever that, you know, let's say they take Chase Reed. I'm not saying it's fait accompli. Who knows what's going to happen at 2, but then you have him there still and whenever Chase Reed arrives or whoever that defenseman from this draft could be arrives, maybe he's still there for a year or two and you've imported this guy who's been on winning teams, who's been to Stanley Cup Final. I just think it makes a lot of sense and they have the assets to do it. It wouldn't be super expensive. They could, they could deal from depth in their system.
- [24:21]
Corey Proman
Yeah, I agree. I think that's just looking at need and fits. It's the most logical. Obviously. We'll see what happens. The question now after that is what does Edmonton do? Like, yes, they have the cap space now. Gay Anderson's available. Rash is available. Does. Do they really make sense in a team that has Evan Bouchard already? Like, it's great to have the cap space now, but they need, they'll need blue line help, but it's not quite clear where they're going to get it from.
- [24:48]
Max Boltman
But I think there's a bunch of different ways they can use the cap space. I think you could make just as good a case to try to use that cap space somewhere up front and trading for a forward to make that a deeper forward car. When I look at like the Edmonton blue line right now after Bouchard, like I know at Colm's getting old, you know, Walman, you can have kind of questions either way. They're probably going to try to keep. Keep Connor Murphy. I think that's still a decent enough like top four for your blue line and I think if you can bolster your forward group with the money, I think that's maybe the smarter way to spend it.
- [25:17]
Corey Proman
Or you keep Philip Robert.
- [25:20]
Max Boltman
Well, that would have been the optimal move, but unless you got a time machine you're sitting on over there, that one might be out the window. Yeah. Holy cow. Both Broberg and Holloway are like the exact thing that Edmonton's missing. Young speed and, and scoring and then, you know, the shutdown defensive from those young legs, bro. Broberg has, man.
- [25:39]
Corey Proman
Yeah, that's a shame.
- [25:41]
Max Boltman
All right, let's take a quick break right there. We'll come back. We're gonna talk about the hard trophy.
- [25:48]
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- [26:42]
Max Boltman
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- [26:49]
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- [27:22]
Max Boltman
All right, we are back and Corey, I want to close today. Just talking about the Hart Trophy announced last night. The winner is Nikita Kov. It was a stunningly close vote, 1436-1426. Nikita Kucherov. Edging out, Conor McDavid here, my guy who I voted for finished third, Nathan McKinnon. So I'm very interested to hear what you saw, what you thought when you saw the results last night.
- [27:44]
Corey Proman
I don't have a vote in this process but if I had one I would have voted for McKinnon as well. My thought process is, you know, the raw numbers are close and I thought Colorado was the most dominant team I watched this season. Not really a hot take. You look at the numbers, even straight numbers, the the wins, the goal totals. Like they were a team that was a pretty dominant all around team in the regular season. I thought McKinnon is their best player. Maybe you could have debates with him versus him versus Makar. But when I watched him I thought it was McKinnon that just really stood out the most between the two of them. Such an elite skater, a play driving centerman, a guy who really stirs the Drink there on the best team in the league. And I just for what I saw this season, I thought he was the most dominant night in and night out player. I know when it comes to these awards it's not a perfect correlation, but people go to the point totals and they sort it and they've. It tends to be a tight correlation between how what the actual results be are as opposed to, you know, deeper thoughts that I think that you would put into this max. And so I'm not shocked by the results, But I think McKinnon was the best player in the league this year. He was the most valuable player in the league this season and he. I think he didn't get snubbed because I think Kucherov and McDavid had wonderful seasons and they're great players. But I think the center versus the wing, particularly like I think what McKinnon provides to Colorado is more than what temper got from Kucherov this season.
- [29:17]
Max Boltman
Yeah. I had a very similar argument with Laz late in the season as we were talking about this and he was talking about man like we never talk about Kucherov. And I said it's because he's a wing and the responsibilities of a center are just that much more. But I agree with you. Like the reason I voted for McKinnon is exactly what you said. Every time I watched Colorado this year, it was like Nathan McKinnon is the most dominant force I've seen this season. And it's tough when you do these awards, especially the Hart Trophy, where the definition is player most valuable to his team. And I think everyone views what that is a little bit differently. I think in Kucherov's case, they kind of looked at the gap in scoring between him and his next highest teammate. Right. And McKinnon did fall short of him in that category. But I don't think Martin Neches is 100 point player without Nathan McKinnon there making a lot of that happen. Right. I think I give McKinnon a lot of the credit for Elevate. We saw what the elevation was when he came over from Carolina to Colorado. I give McKinnon credit for that. I don't knock McKinnon for that.
- [30:09]
Corey Proman
I find it interesting how we parse the words on the trophy when it comes to the heart. But the like the Calder most proficient in their first year of competition or the Selkie, the forward with the best defensive responsibility, we just kind of skim over that one. But with the heart, we kind of zone in on what most valuable means. Well, at the end of the day, I think we all think who was the best player, who was the best rookie, who was the best defenseman, who was the best player. And by best, we don't mean best per game. We mean who delivered the most wins above replacement, the most total value to a team. That's. That's mostly how we tend to think about these things with some variation. But I think. And in that way, like, yeah, you could argue celebrini had whatever, 60 more points or whatever than the next best player on Saturday. But McKinnon was the best player in the league this season to me. Not to the voters, obviously, but to me, he was the best player in the league. He deserved to win the heart trophy.
- [31:05]
Max Boltman
I just think he fits both definitions. I really do. And it's like a player most valuable to his team. I do try to be really faithful to that because that's what they're asking me to vote on. Right? Same with the Calder. Right? Like, I voted Michael Bunting ahead of Lucas Raymond a few years ago. I always look back and think, man, I'm going to look stupid on some, you know, if people look back at that 10 years from now. But that's in that year, who was the most proficient? I thought, okay, Bunting had an awesome year. It was close, right? And I try to be faithful to these definitions. I just thought McKinnon hit it from both. And it's what you said, right? It can't just be because a guy has a good team. I'm not going to vote him high. And I think McDavid has been the victim of that at times. And I don't think it's fair to say that the reason this team is this good is because they have this guy. And that was the case.
- [31:47]
Corey Proman
Even that deep a team, like, I know they have a great team. They're one of, like I said, the best team in the league. It's not like they were like Carolina's builder, where it's like these four lines deep. Like, to me, that team is like six, seven, like, wonderful hockey players and particularly two extremely wonderful hockey players. And I would argue the reason why they were such a good team is at least like 30% due to how good McKinnon is.
- [32:10]
Max Boltman
I think at the trade deadline when they added Kadri and Wa and there was already, I think, a little like, McKinnon started so good and his first half of the year was, like, undeniable for the heart. And I don't know if it's boredom. I don't know Like, Kucherov's numbers after the Olympic break are truly video game numbers, but I'm also not giving him like, extra credit for just like you had the best 20 game span or 25 game span in the league. Right? And I, like, Tampa was a really good team. I voted Kucharov second on my ballot and I really wrestled with him or McDavid for second. And I felt like, you know, similarly, I just didn't. Wasn't that impressed by Edmonton this year. Even though McDavid's numbers were great. It was like, well, if Edmonton's not that good, it's hard for me to, you know, bump it up that high. But I really wrestled with those two and I was willing to go, okay. Kutrov, the way he finished the year is amazing, but I can't give him the whole award off of what he did after the Olympic break. Just how I looked at it.
- [33:01]
Corey Proman
Yeah. And Tampa was an amazing team. He had an amazing season. I think he's absolutely worthy of the conversation. But I think if it wasn't close, like, if he had 15, if he had like 20 more points or whatever than McKinnon, you'd be like, okay, like, the offense was really that much better, but it wasn't. And he and McKinnon led the league in goals and like, whatever. People voted how they voted. It's fine. I'm used to the awards getting it wrong, so it's not that surprising kind of thing, but we're. We're just. We're just in an echo chamber right now kind of thing. Just so.
- [33:34]
Max Boltman
No, I get it. There's people listening who are like these two guys who just agree with each other, just hammering it. So we don't like Kuchar, like I said, I voted him second. He had an awesome year. But I think Nathan, and Nathan, it's not the first time, by the way. I think McKinnon's been snubbed on one of these, man. I don't know what it is if there's some hesitance for people to take it all the way, but I think he could have three of these by now, right now.
- [33:53]
Corey Proman
So I think, like you said, I think there is some part of it that is like the why someone's on a super team. Just like when, like, Cooper got ripped for winning the Jack Adams kind of thing. I think people, like, look for the. The bigger gaps in terms of, like, bet from, you know what, the Jack Adams is playing above expectations with the heart. It's the level of play above the rest of his teammates, etc. But we've already been over those points already.
- [34:18]
Max Boltman
That's an interesting point that you raised though. Kucherov wins the heart, Vasilevsky wins the Vezina, Cooper wins the Jack Adams this year. Tampa Bay first round exit and I wonder like you know, where is this team in their window? There's a few teams like this, a few really good teams. You and I were texting about Dallas yesterday and like how much longer is their window going to be on open? Some of the class of the league right now they still got great prime age players but the clock's ticking.
- [34:42]
Corey Proman
Well I told you the other day I think temp is a prime candidate. Trade for Larkin and just put throw geeky, throw Sam O'Reilly in there. Burn it all to the ground prospect wise. Give yourself an extra couple of years because if they don't do that, you know they're going to lose Radish probably maybe we'll see. Maybe they want to pay in the 8 million, whatever. But Hedman's really at the end here. Like if he even if he comes back next year like, like when he was playing even he wasn't very good. Like it's. And these guys are getting the rest of the core is getting up there in age. It's still a really good court. Like Hegel's still doing playing very well. Shirelli's still playing very well. Kucherov still playing very well. They still got and Vasilevsky's been was had a great year. Yeah they still have a window here but it's dwindling especially on that that blue line is going to become a concern and you look at that roster and how many guys are were they playing or replacement level players, fringe AHL level players and it's starting to get up there. So I think they're going to need, if they don't trade for Larkin, they're going to need geeky and Sam O'Reilly. I think on that team contributing next year otherwise things are going to start getting a little hairy.
- [35:49]
Max Boltman
Well that's the point I was going to make is almost the opposite of my Edmonton point. Right Is like you, you have geeky and Sam O'Reilly and with the upper level forwards you have already in Tampa, you could play those two in the roles that I think they need to be played to start their career. Third line kind of minutes, maybe even fourth line because you have Yanni Gordon, you have some other veterans on your third line that can eat minutes. It's the blue line because like you said Headman was really banged up this year. He's getting toward, you know, the very end of his prime if, if we're even saying prime still. And if Radish walks, I think you could probably have an easier time bulking up your D and improving that way than. Than I think you do up front. Like Larkin definitely moves the needle for anybody. But when I look at what Tampa has, like Point and Sorelli are still a pretty gold standard one two center combo, at least in my eyes.
- [36:32]
Corey Proman
Yeah. You almost wonder if one of the best move to the wing if you brought in a Larkin. I just meant like Larkin in the way of like doesn't have to be Larkin. It could be someone else. It just means that this window is closing. They. They very much have adopted, you know, Breezeball has definitely much adopted the less need model of, you know, F them picks. And it wouldn't surprise me if they just just moved their best prospects just to give themselves four more years of going for it and that's how they've operated.
- [37:00]
Max Boltman
And I, I can understand. I. I wonder too especially in some of these Sunbelt markets and you know, all the emphasis is on them because you know, they have the favorable taxes, the favorable weather, they've been winning. So players all want to go there. I also think those are some of the franchises that have the most incentive to be relevant. Like if in those markets where hockey is not, you know, baked into everybody's blood from birth in the way that it is in Canada and the way that is in some of the northeast states, you know, Minnes even I would say Detroit, like you have to be really good I think to keep filling those buildings.
- [37:30]
Corey Proman
So what's interesting is I'm going to take us to junior hockey because I obviously I watch a lot of junior hockey is the opposite actually applies to those smaller cities is in those small cities like not the London's, the Kitcheners, The Halifax is, etc. The ones that are always going to get the fans in the, in the building. Those markets have a real hesitance to go all, all in because it looks good for one year but then when you're like really awful for four, five, six, seven years in a row, you start talking about like relocation.
- [38:01]
Max Boltman
Yeah.
- [38:01]
Corey Proman
Bad. It can get over there. So I think that is a little bit. I think in Tampa it's a little different because they've won so many championships already. You know, this is that they're starting, you know, the everblades that in that area are getting are really big. Like that's a little different I think than I know like when the coyotes were in town that was like tearing it to the ground ground and being like absolutely awful for five years was something that they got a lot of pushback on for, for, for those kinds of reasons.
- [38:30]
Max Boltman
Tampa's not going to be absolutely awful. I don't think in, in any scenario, I guess, you know, in six years or whatever if they haven't found any more prospects by then. But I do trust that they will.
- [38:41]
Corey Proman
Yeah, I think, think but you know, I think I'm wondering like Colorado kind of say they have no draft picks. Like at some point if it gets really bad there, you wonder when, when is that window up a little bit? They have. No, I think they don't have, I think they have like one top two round pick for like the next like three years, something like that. I don't think this window's closing anytime soon. McKinnon, MCAR are still no ripe age, but you got, you got, you know, at some point the window closes for everybody.
- [39:04]
Max Boltman
Yeah, well, window wide open still for the Carolina Hurricanes in Vegas Gold Golden Knights this year. Game six for that one will be on Sunday. We'll talk to you soon. Your team just added its 67th AI tool and also your 67th security blind spot. The good news? The Vanta agent works like a GRC engineer in the background, finding every app your team uses, scoring the risk and drafting fixes for you. Vanta is the platform used by over 16,000 fast moving companies like Ramp Cursor and Harvey who are shaping the future with AI and staying ahead of AI risk. Get started@vanta.com the 2026 FIFA World cup meal at McDonald's is underway with one of nine legendary cups in the lineup. Christian Pulisic, David Beckham, Lamine Yamal, Ronaldinho, Thierry Henry, Son, Young Min, Alfonso Davies, Santee Hill and between the posts, it's Grimace. Get one of nine collectible cups with a FIFA World cup meal at participating McDonald's for a limited time while supplies last. All rights reserved. 20:26 McDonald's at FIFA World Cup 20:26
- [40:15]
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