Canada, USA World Juniors roster debates

Summary

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The Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series (Nov 21, 2025)

Episode Summary: Canada, USA World Juniors Roster Debates

Hosts/Panelists:

• Max Bultman (The Athletic)
• Corey Pronman (The Athletic)
• Scott Wheeler (The Athletic)
• Chris Peters (FloHockey)

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Episode Overview

In this Prospect Series episode, Max Bultman is joined by Corey Pronman, Scott Wheeler, and Chris Peters to conduct a comprehensive, on-air debate over the projected World Junior rosters for Team Canada and Team USA. The panel creates depth charts (not just lines) for both teams, discusses which NHL players might realistically be released for the tournament, and delves into the most contentious positional battles and bubble players. The hosts highlight areas of consensus, notable disagreements, and evolving storylines as selections near.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Team Canada: Forward Depth Chart Debate

(Segment starts: 02:12)

The Big Challenge: NHL Player Availability

• Major Point: Canada’s greatest uncertainty is whether NHL teams will loan top prospects like Beckett Sennecke, Berkeley Catton, Michael Misa, and Ben Kindel.
  • “Canada has so many contingencies… There’s ultimately the pool they’re going to end up with.” (Max, 02:33)
  • Consensus Top 5 Forwards: Gavin McKenna, Berkeley Catton, Beckett Sennecke, Porter Martone, Michael Misa.

Player-By-Player Availability Analysis

(03:58–08:56)

• Beckett Sennecke (Ducks):
  • “He’s been good for the Ducks... I’d be surprised right now if Sennecke was available.” (Corey, 04:11)
• Michael Misa (Sharks):
  • "I would bet that Michael Misa is playing for Canada at the World Juniors if he’s healthy." (Scott, 05:26)
• Berkeley Catton (Kraken):
  • Max describes Catton as a “likely gold medal hopes” candidate—if made available. (06:59)
• Ben Kindel (Penguins):
  • “Kindel’s playing a lot of minutes right now... I’d be surprised at this point if... they loaned him out, but that could change.” (Corey, 07:57)
  • Kindel’s rapid ascension since summer camp is noted, moving from “outside looking in” to maybe 2C. (Chris, 08:20)

Bubble/Secondary Forwards and Fit Debate

• Extensive discussion of how specific skills and roles (e.g., centers vs. natural wingers) impact depth chart decisions:
  • Jake O’Brien: “He’s not a penalty killer... if there’s a middle six power play opportunity, all of a sudden I think he’s in that mix.” (Corey, 09:21)
  • Brady Martin: Positioning is about “versatility... physicality... not necessarily scoring. He can score... but it’s what he brings in short tournaments.” (Scott, 12:11)
  • Tij Iginla: "Since he’s been playing this year, he’s been one of the very best players in junior hockey." (Corey, 13:46)
  • Liam Greentree: “You need scoring. He does that. That’s why he’s in for me.” (Scott, 21:56); but Corey counters, “His pace does worry me... when the game gets really fast, is he gonna be able to keep up?” (23:38)

Consensus and Contentious Final Cuts

(24:41–27:49)

• Summing up, Max lays out a theoretical top depth chart and bubble list.
• On cutting talents like O’Brien and Martin: “It’s frustrating... based on NHL availabilities, there are clear scenarios for either of them actually being on the team.” (Corey, 25:29)
• “One domino turns into another... Suddenly there’s an opportunity for Jake O'Brien to play very high in this lineup.” (Chris, 26:09)

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2. Team Canada: Defensemen & Goalies

(Segment starts: 30:16)

Blue Line: Unanimity at the Top, Uncertainty Deeper

• Consensus Top 4: Sam Dickinson, Zayne Parekh (confirmed available by Eric Francis), Kashawn Aitchison, Harrison Brunicke.
• 3rd/4th RD: Ben Danford, Keaton Verhoff—“the questions are which of those players Canada actually gets.” (30:52)
• Left side depth is “bleak” if Dickinson isn’t loaned. Discussion focuses on:
  • Cam Reid: “They were very eager to get Cam Reid there... he's right there amongst the lefties.” (Chris, 35:05)
  • Jared Woolley, Owen Protz, Xavier Villeneuve: Make the “who rounds out the D” debate.
  • Villeneuve’s Role: “If you have a Villeneuve, you know exactly what his utility is... You know when to insert him.” (Chris, 41:51)

Goalie Situation

(45:32–48:19)

• Split between Carter George (“I think he was Canada’s best player at last year’s World Juniors...” – Scott, 47:37) and Jack Ivanovic (“Ivanovic just looks spectacular this year... reminds me a lot of Juuse Saros at the same age.” – Corey, 46:36).

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3. Team USA: Depth Chart & Debates

(Segment starts: 50:41)

Forwards: Top 9 Clear, Secondary Roles Debated

• Broad agreement on a core group: James Hagens, Teddy Stiga, Brody Zeimer, Max Plante, Will Horkoff, Cole Eiserman, Trevor Connelly, Cole McKinney, AJ Spellacy, Shane Van Sagic, and Camille Bednarak.

• Key Theme: Lack of natural centers after Hagens.

  • “There aren’t many good centers in this group.” (Scott, 52:14)
  • “It was the story of their age group—it was basically just the Hagens line... secondary scoring is going to be a story in the middle round games.” (Corey, 54:00)

• Notable Quotes:

  • “I think it’ll probably end up still being James [Hagens at C], but the fact that it is already, that it’s happening on his current team... little concerning to me.” (Scott, 60:41)

• Bubble Forward Roster:

  • Riker Lee, LJ Mooney, Cullen Potter, Jack Murtagh as 13th/14th forward possibilities.
  • “If I was actually making this team, I would take him [Lee] over LJ Mooney. I don't know that Bob Motzko is going to take him over LJ Mooney, but I would.” (Corey, 54:43)
  • On top checking line: “That’s the exact kind of line that you want checking the Canada line.” (Max, 62:00)

• JP Hurlburt’s [WHL scoring leader] hopes: “If you search JP Hurlburt's name in the USA Hockey database, it comes up with files empty.” (Chris, 62:51)
  “0.0% chance.” (Scott, 63:10)

Defense: Right Side Strength, Left Side Shallow

• Locks: Cole Hutson, Adam Kleber, E.J. Emery, Dakota Raue-Mullen, Luke Asborne.
• “This is a good core. I don’t know that it’s going to wow you... Cole Hutson has the potential to be one of the very best defensemen at the World Juniors.” (Max, 64:21)
• 7th/8th D: Considerations for Blake Fiddler, Jacob Rombach, Chase Reid (strong OHL season)— but little likelihood for meaningful ice time.
  • “I think Chase Reid has made a very compelling case to be in camp...” (Scott, 65:03)
• On power play: “You could just have Cole Hutson play the entire power play and call it good.” (Scott, 67:14)

Goaltending: Big Red Flag

• Nick Kemp is the consensus #1. “Kemp is the only option and will be the only option for them as the number one goalie.” (Scott, 72:30)
• Massive drop-off behind him: “Probably the weakest goaltending crop I’ve seen here.” (Scott, 74:52)
• “You just have to hope that one of those guys is going to have his A game in that setting, because otherwise it’s going to be a long tournament—or a short tournament.” (Scott, 75:36)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “It's all about trickle down—one domino turns into another domino turns into another domino. Suddenly there’s an opportunity for Jake O’Brien to play very high in this lineup.” (Chris Peters, 26:09)
• “If you have a Villeneuve, you know exactly what his utility is... You know when to insert him into the lineup.” (Chris Peters, 41:51)
• “0.0% chance... It is for the reasons you mentioned. It is the political thing.” (Scott Wheeler on JP Hurlburt, 63:10)
• “I think it’ll probably end up still being James, but... little concerning to me.” (Scott Wheeler on James Hagens’ usage, 60:41)
• “You just have to hope that one [USA] goalie has his A game in that setting, because otherwise it’s going to be a long tournament—or a short tournament.” (Scott Wheeler, 75:36)

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Timeline of Important Segments

• 02:12 – Episode theme, method, and Team Canada forward pool introduction
• 03:58–08:56 – NHL prospect (Sennecke, Misa, Catton, Kindel) availability breakdown
• 09:57–24:36 – Debates over secondary forwards, stylistic fit, & bubble players
• 30:16 – Transition to Team Canada’s defense (availability issues, depth)
• 45:32 – Canada goalie debate (George vs Ivanovic)
• 50:41 – Team USA forward pool begins
• 54:00 – Center depth concerns, how to maximize a thin group
• 62:41 – Checking lines, forward depth for Team USA
• 63:43 – US D core, evaluation of bubble D options
• 72:30 – USA goaltending: Kemp as reluctant #1, general lack of confidence

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Final Thoughts

This episode serves as an honest, nitty-gritty “war room” on-the-fly debate about the razor-thin calls, possible “snubs,” and strategic priorities driving the upcoming World Juniors for Canada and the USA. The panel’s depth, context, and candid disagreements offer essential insight for fans wanting to understand how these high-stakes, “best on best” youth hockey rosters take shape.

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Summary prepared for listeners interested in in-depth prospect debates and real-time team-building strategy ahead of the 2026 World Junior Championships.

Transcript

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[Max Boltman]

This is the athletic hockey show prospect series. Hey everybody. Max Boltman here alongside the athletics, Corey Prominence, Scott Wheeler and Flow Hockey's Chris Peters for another episode of the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect series. Today we are diving into the USA and Canada world Junior roster debates. And we've got a lot to get into here. So we're going to start with Team Canada here. And here's how we did this. So we're. What we're trying to do here is create a depth chart. Canada has in particular has so many contingencies. They have to work through guys with players that they will have available players that they would like to get and maybe don't know if they're going to get. And then there's ultimately the pool they're going to end up with. We could spend four hours going through contingencies. So we're going to try to keep it somewhat tight. But the end goal here is to produce maybe not a projected roster, but a projected depth chart for kind of to show where we stand on all these guys and how we would if we were Team Canada, how we would have them rank. We'll do the same thing for usa, thankfully, a little bit simpler on that end of things. There's are going to be some visual components to this. So if you're listening via podcast and you want to see some of these depth charts that we've kind of started depth charts we've created, feel free to check us out on YouTube as always. But let's dive right in here, guys. And starting with the Team Canada forwards, there is some agreement. Fortunately, five of everybody's top six is consensus. Gavin McKenna, Berkeley Catton, Beckett, Seneca, Porter Martone, Michael Misa. That's the good news. The bad news, as we're going to run into over and over again, we have no idea how many of those players Canada is actually going to have available to them. So we're going to get to that as we roll here. But let's just start with this. Berkeley, Catton and Beckett, Seneca and Michael Misa all are in the NHL. If there's one of these players that you feel Canada is least likely to get, Corey, who is.

[Corey Prominence]

Has to be Seneca, right? I mean, he's been good for the Ducks. The Ducks are winning games. He's playing regular minutes, which Katton and Misa are not for the Sharks. Misa's hurt right now, but even when he was healthy, he wasn't. I would be surprised right now if Seneca was available.

[Max Boltman]

All right, so given that we all have him high on the list, I think we don't need to spend a ton of time on him.

[Chris Peters]

We're.

[Max Boltman]

We're going to put him on the final depth chart, I think, because we would agree that. Or if you guys feel strongly that we don't. We cannot. But I think we all agree he's going to be high on the wish list for Canada, but we're not going to spend a ton of time on him because we don't think it's super realistic when it comes to Michael Misakori. There's a little more of a debate here because as you said, he's been injured more in and out of the lineup. What do you think the odds are Canada gets their hands on Misa?

[Corey Prominence]

Scott?

[Chris Peters]

I think the odds are good that they get their hands on Misa. I think based off of the way that he's looked in the NHL, how little he has played, when he has played and just the, the general feel around him and his role on that team and his fit on that team. Even once he's healthy, I don't think he's a every night guy for them. I don't think he's going to be used prominently for them. And I think it a lot of sense to send him, have him play a top six role for Team Canada and be a big, big, big part of this team Canada. They obviously didn't take him a year ago. He's likely in the NHL next year. So this is kind of Misa's year to, to be on this team and to have his world Junior experience and be a go to guy. So I would bet as, as we sit here today, I would bet that Michael Misa is playing for Canada at the World Juniors if he's healthy.

[Max Boltman]

And what would you do, Chris, with Berkeley Catton as the Seattle Kraken? It's a little different situation. Kraken again, a team that's going to try a playoff spot and Catton's in their lineup, but maybe not at the very top of it.

[Scott Wheeler]

Yeah, you know, I think the advantage for, for Seattle is that they've already been through this process before. They've, they've done, they did it with Shane Wright and you know, made, made the decision that they made. And I think, you know, you look at Cat right now, no goals yet in 14 games, but they did put him past the 10 game threshold. You know, he's probably, he's, he's, his ice time has been a little bit all over the map. It's been quite a while since he's gotten on the score sheet. To me, it makes all the sense in the world to allow opportunity to go to the World Juniors to be a top center, a top six center on this team. A guy that, you know, is Going to be relied upon to produce and allow him to build that confidence and then make a decision after that about ultimately where he should go next. And, you know, he is one of those guys where it feels like he's done pretty much all he can do in junior hockey. But coming off of a world Junior championship last year where he had one assist, I would have to imagine that Berkeley would also like the opportunity for some redemption with a team that has legitimate gold medal hopes.

[Max Boltman]

Anyone not think Canada is going to have Berkeley Catton available to them?

[Corey Prominence]

Kraken do have some injury issues, and that'd be the only thing I'd be thinking about there, depending on the health of the roster. I mean, they've. They just bumped Shane right to the wing on that line to have Cat and center, that third line. So I think there's a chance.

[Max Boltman]

All right, so let's say Catton is in this mix there. So if we've got five of the six figured out and granted, Seneca may or may not be available, we think probably not. The rotation of other players that this group of selectors kind of rotated through has a lot of variants. Right. So Corey has Michael Misa at center and that opens up a spot in his top six for TGginla. Scott has Michael Misa on the wing with another NHL player, Ben Kindle, at center, and that's actually probably the segue we should go to next. Do we think the Pittsburgh Penguins right now, against all odds, holding on a playoff spot? Corey, is Ben Kindle going to be available to Team Canada and kind of.

[Corey Prominence]

Similar situation to Kat, and they have a lot of injuries too, which has resulted in Kindle getting significant ice time. If they were fully healthy, maybe, maybe not. I think they would be a little bit more open to that conversation. But Kindle's playing a lot of minutes right now for that team and he's, you know, he's been on the top power play at times. I'd be surprised at this point if, if they. If with the information we have now, if they loaned him out, but that could change in a couple of weeks.

[Max Boltman]

Okay.

[Chris Peters]

The thing, the thing with Kindle, too, is it's not that long ago that we were coming out of the World Junior Summer Showcase, and I think Ben Kindle was on the outside looking in of this roster. So he has transformed where he's at in terms of just an NHL prospect in the last, last little bit. And we talked about it on the show a couple of weeks ago, clearly the Pittsburgh Penguins were in the right spot when they Took him where they did, but I don't think he was. I don't think Team Canada in. In August is what, four months ago? I don't think Team Canada viewed him as a piece of the puzzle just four months ago. And now he's. He's probably what, they're 2C behind Catton.

[Corey Prominence]

Yeah, Fun question, just tangent. Is there anybody that went before Kindle in the draft that you would take Kendall over?

[Max Boltman]

Right now I have him higher on my depth chart than Brady Martin, who I'm a big believer in.

[Chris Peters]

I think I'm probably taking him over Brady.

[Corey Prominence]

I probably take him over Brady, and I probably take him over Mertka.

[Max Boltman]

What about. I think you have him over o' Brien as well, Corey.

[Corey Prominence]

Yeah, but that. So where I have o', Brien. You guys can show my depth chart if you want. Just for context, o' Brien is going to be one of those weird ones when you're putting together a roster, is that I don't think he fits in a bottom six. He's not a penalty killer. He's not gonna be in those. Those tough defensive situations. But if there's a middle six power play opportunity available for Team Canada, then all of a sudden I think he's in that mix. You talk about Becca Seneca coming out of that second line, right wing. That could be a spot for Jacob Brian, quite frankly, in this lineup. But I feel like if you're looking for him to be a fourth liner on this team, I'm not sure that that's quite the fit.

[Max Boltman]

Yeah, and.

[Chris Peters]

And I think that's incumbent on the conversation that we just had of if, if, let's say they don't get two of Kat and Misa Kindle, for example, then suddenly I think Jake is more firmly in the mix of what the middle six of this roster looks like. But if they're. If they're fully loaded, it's. It's. It's tough to imagine where he fits.

[Max Boltman]

To Scott's point, Kendall is in the top nine for three of us on our depth chart here. The one that doesn't have mod is Chris, and Chris omitted him because he doesn't think there's any chance Ben Kindle is going to be available to Canada. Right. So to your point, Scott, about how Kendall has elevated himself, that is pretty clear in these projections. So the names that I want to dig into as we talk about what to do in the top six of Canada, Corey, I completely agree with your point about o', Brien because I ranked him. If you want to put my chart up here, I put him as the number two center mainly because I think that's where he fits. Right. And so I don't know that I would take him over Ben Kendall. I don't think I would. So maybe I'm kind of misunderstanding the assignment. But if I'm thinking who do I want playing with Michael Misa and Porter Martone, it's a playmaker like Jake o'. Brien. So I know Chris, you have Brady Martin in that spot. And so, like, there's a lot of debates that you can have about how to structure this top six. And so to try to keep it orderly, let's start here. How about, Chris, why don't you tell us why you would have Brady Martin that high?

[Scott Wheeler]

You were talking about depth chart, not necessarily line combinations. And I think that the, the thing is, is that I think Hockey Canada would view Brady Martin as a, as a more critical piece to their team than, than Jake o' Brien at this point because of the versatility that he provides, the physicality that he provides, you know, and so, like, would I necessarily have him as the second line center on this team? Not necessarily. And I think that's the interesting thing about depth charts versus line charts is that there are values to what a player brings that especially in short tournaments that I feel like are more critical. And I think for me, you know, Martin delivers on a lot of things that aren't necessarily scoring. He can score. He had probably the goal of the season in the, in the OHL so far this year, but.

[Corey Prominence]

And hasn't scored other than that goal.

[Scott Wheeler]

That's true. But it's like, but it's one of those things that, that, you know, for, for the versatility that he provides, there's a huge benefit to his overall skill set. So I think he's going to play significant minutes. Like there's a chance that, you know, the way Canada utilizes its second line, depending on what that is and who they get from the NHL, that maybe there's, you know, maybe they have like their tone setting line, which could be their third line or their fourth line or whatever, start a lot of games for them, set the tone kind of thing. And I think that that's what Brady Martin brings and why he's so high on my list.

[Max Boltman]

Corey, you have teacher Ginla in the top six and it's not at center because again, it all depends on how you, how you slot players positionally. But why don't you make the case.

[Corey Prominence]

For teacher Ginla and Teach has played center. That's junior hockey. You're gonna have a lot of centers playing wing on a team Canada.

[Chris Peters]

I think Brady's, I think Brady's a winger for this team. If he's on the team like they, they just have too many natural centers and they've used Brady as a winger previously.

[Corey Prominence]

He doesn't have like the high end sense to be a top two line center on this team. From what I've seen maybe, maybe in a fourth line center or something like that. But in terms of Iginla, I mean since he's been playing this year, he's been one of the very best players in junior hockey. He's got to be like, he's like what, like two, well over a goal per game right now. Something like two points per game. He's been dynamic for, for Kelowna and this is a guy who's a very important part of this age group. At the U18 Worlds when they won gold. I think they're going to look to this guy for his, for his skill, his finish, his compete level and you know, this is his time, this is his age group and I expect for a 19 year old with his talent level that he will play a very prominent role in this lineup.

[Chris Peters]

The left side is where things really open up for this team too. Like you start to look at the, at all of our depth charts. You've got Katten Kindle, Luchenko Reshnie, Coots, o' Brien as centers. You've got Brady Martin as a center. On a couple of our, our lineups. The right side you've got Martone potentially Beckett, Senake, Michael Hage, Justin Carbono, Liam Greentree. The left side after McKenna there are job though. That's where I think the jobs are to win. And Teej, I sort of agree with Corey here. I think Teege is, is well positioned to be one of those guys as a left shot winger behind McKenna somewhere.

[Corey Prominence]

And the next guy I have after him is Dino. But that one's. That was a struggle to figure out where to put Caleb Deno. I think it's the same issue with Brady Martin. They're both really, they don't, didn't but they haven't played well this season. So it's like what I, I like Deno because of the size, the PK ability and the like kind of. And like I think there's a way for him to affect the game. But I can understand, I think Scott, you're about to say you left him off. Like I completely understand leaving him off too. He hasn't played well this year.

[Chris Peters]

Yeah, I just think push comes to shove, you start to look at the centers or even the left shot guys. The left shot centers that can move over. I think we've seen more from Braden Coots and Cole Reschni and some of those guys then Dan. And I think you've got guys like Cole Bodu that are going to be on the. On the. And Jet Luchenko that are going to be on the roster as returnees. So I just don't see, I don't see. With the way that Dan has looked early on with the injuries, with the wrists coming off the wrist, I just don't see why he's on the team over any number of those guys.

[Max Boltman]

And we could have a similar conversation about Kaden Lindstrom. Corey's the only one that put Kaden Lindstrom on his six lines. Deep depth chart here.

[Chris Peters]

Oh, really?

[Corey Prominence]

Good God.

[Chris Peters]

Kaden was one of my very last cuts.

[Max Boltman]

Absolutely.

[Chris Peters]

Sam O'Reilly and Danoya, those were kind of my three last forwards that I didn't include here. But again, has Caden shown more than. Than. If you're looking at the very bottom of my depth chart, has Caden shown more than Merrick Vaniker this year?

[Corey Prominence]

I mean, not offensively, not even close. I guess looking at. I had litch him as like a fourth line wing. Yep. I guess my argument there is high end speed, high end physicality. Like for a 10 to 11 minute a night guy in those tough games against us Sweden, I think he will have a lot of value. But if he gets more than two points in that tournament, which is what he's got in the year so far, I think. I think that'd be hoping for too.

[Max Boltman]

Much outside of those big five.

[Scott Wheeler]

The.

[Max Boltman]

The real consensus is here are Cole Boudoin and Michael Hage. Everyone has both of them somewhere in their top 12 and it's typically in the bottom six. So those guys, I think as we have our debate, we don't need to spend a ton of time on because there's pretty broad agreement here. I think the guys that are going to be interesting. And let's start with Justin Carbono out in the queue. This is a guy who is fairly high on my list. I think fairly high in scottslist. Corey, I think you have him toward the very bottom of your depth, the chart.

[Corey Prominence]

Yeah, hockey sense, minor concern there for me. I think with Carbono you love the skill, you love the tenacity, you love the shot. But then the question starts becoming, you know, Scott mentioned all the really good right shots on this Team, particularly the, the right wingers that you're going to have eligible guys like Martin, guys like Hage co could be a winger on this team. And I start going through all these options and I start asking like, okay, well, where does he really fit? Who are you really leaving behind? Are you really going to leave Lenko behind for him? You're really leaving Brady Martin behind for him. And I, I just don't see it. I feel like he's going to be a guy unless they lose all the NHL guys. I feel like he's going to be in the conversation to the end and then ultimately gets cut.

[Max Boltman]

Luchenko is one I really struggled with because I absolutely loved what he did for Team Canada at his own U18s. And I think that history tends to translate. I think hockey Canada is going to value that. I think they're going to see him as a guy that they can trust. Even if it does end up being a fourth line role. Like, that's really valuable. I just struggled to find. Yeah, right. Obviously he can kill penalties, but I just struggled to find, like, where do I put him? It would have had to come at the expense of Deno Ye or Brady Martin for me. And I don't know if it's recency or what, but I just couldn't kind of get myself there.

[Corey Prominence]

It's a tough one because I agree with you, like, as a hockey player, the last like 12 months for Luchenko have not been overly inspiring. I know he had that really good camp with the Flyers a year ago, but since then it's. You've kind of been wishing for a little bit more offense out of this player. I still think, like you said, the U18s loom large here a little bit. I feel like he didn't have a great U18s and his world juniors last year was just okay. I feel like he could be like a Chris Bigra type of situation here where like, even though he's returning guy, he could still easily get cut. But I feel like because he has that strong track record and because you're not really hoping to put him in a scoring role, you're thinking 11, 12, 13 forward on this roster, I would still find a way to get him in here. You know, keep in mind this age group. When they played the U18s, they only had two centers they could trust. It was Bo Dwen and Luchenko. So, like, I do think, think at the end of the day he makes it. Is he going to play a lot of minutes on this team? I wouldn't go that far.

[Max Boltman]

Couple other bubble guys that are interesting. One of them is Cole Rashni. And Chris, I know he didn't end up on your list that we're going to. When we display it, he won't be there. But I know you, you meant to have him on there. So we'll just assume that, like Cole Rashni's on everybody's list here. But it's still like the role is interesting. I, I put him on the kind of a checking third line again. I, I know I probably did a little more of a lineup than I was supposed to, but it's also a guy who could very easily be the extra.

[Chris Peters]

Scott, I think Reshnie just fits on any roster. He can play center. He's excellent in the face off circle. He's one of the more reliable players in this sage cohort. He can check, he can. He's plays with pay. He's now playing with a lot more pace and then he's got the skill game and the playmaking. And he was a standout at the summer showcase this summer and one of the only standouts at the summer showcase this summer. So I didn't really worry about when I, when I was considering my sort of roster here, I didn't really worry about Reschni. Like, Reshni wasn't a guy who felt like a bubble guy. Guys like Bovair and Vaneker and o' Brien felt like bubble guys to me. Rashni still feels to me like a player who's going to be on this team. I think he was sort of penciled into this team coming out of the summer showcase after the way that he performed there. And he's had a good. Not like he hasn't had a great year at North Dakota, but he's still a point per game and an important part of that team. And I just think he's a. He's a bit of a Swiss army knife like he. You could play him with skill. Guys a little bit higher. You could play him on your third or fourth line. With guys like Luchenko and Bo Dwain, I think he could fit there. There's a lot of utility for Reschni at an event like this. I think he's. He's probably in the mix.

[Corey Prominence]

So I really like Reshni, but this is why I would put Dino. Yeah. Over Reschni. I feel like if we were in the summer right now, we hadn't started the season yet. We presumed Danouye was going to come back healthy. Would anybody here have put Reshni Over Denoye for this team?

[Max Boltman]

No, because November and that didn't happen.

[Corey Prominence]

No. Right. But Denoise played seven games. It's not like he's played a full quarter of a year and he's played poorly. It's been seven games, one of which he left like beginning of the game due to injury. So, like, I'm hesitant and there's similar player styles. The Noye is bigger, but they're both kind of these two way hard working forwards. So like, I look at this, I'm like, yeah, Denoise, big been, hasn't been good. But I feel like what you're hoping to get out of Reshnie, you can get out of him. And I feel like the offense is going to be close and I just value this player more. I feel like even he has a better track record too. So anyways, that was my argument there. I don't think it's unreasonable to take Reshnie instead of De Noye, but that was my, my line of thinking.

[Max Boltman]

I, I have both. But I just. As I was trying to figure out how to slot him, I was just thinking like, it's hard to put the one above the other when the, when the one is playing so well and arguably against better competition. So that, but that's one that will. I think we'll debate as we get a little bit deeper into this. The other player I want to talk about, just as we figure out who the bubble is here is Liam Green. Tree. I left him off. I think Corey, you have him pretty low. Scott, you have him right at the fringe. Chris, you have him. I think third right wing for you. Do you want to make the case for Liam Greentree?

[Scott Wheeler]

I mean, I, I think it's, it's hard, it's. It's. It's hard to make the case. It's more of a positional thing. Like, I think the, the thing is, is you want some guys to be playing in their spots. You want them to be kind of in the more natural positions. I think he can play on either side. He has, you know, scoring ability, size, those things. I think the reason that, you know, a lot of us view him and, and that's, yes, he's high on, higher on my list. But I really think that a lot of these guys, as we get outside of the top, you know, seven or eight forwards are fairly interchangeable for a lot of, a lot of ways. And he's one of those guys where, you know, the track records there in terms of the production, he was one of the top players in The OHL last season. He wasn't available this summer, you know, so, like that we didn't get a chance to see him in that environment. You know, I think if you go back to his under 18, he had a hard time getting on the ice, and I think that'll absolutely stay in the memory of. Of Hockey Canada, which is why I'm sure, you know, you guys are kind of more on the fence about him, you know, But I also was looking at kind of some of the different things and making sure that you have, you know, some. Some good size, but with some skill against the US Team in particular or a Sweden team that is going to have some. Some of that. I think the US Team is going to be tougher. Like, just. They're not going to be as big overall, but, you know. Yeah, I mean, I think he's one of those guys that he's really tricky to figure out, and he's often leaving you wanting more, yet you look up and he's always producing. So to me, that's. That's. You need scoring. He does that. That's why he's in for me.

[Corey Prominence]

He's been a really impactful junior player and he's got the size. His pace does worry me.

[Scott Wheeler]

Correct.

[Corey Prominence]

And, like, I'm worried if I was in team Cat position. Like, not worried, but, like, I'm thinking if I was in the position he. I feel like they're gonna pick him apart in the way that team can have picked apart. Like a guy. Like a magical Dal Cole, for example, where they're wondering, like, he's been. He's a great scorer at the OHL level, but when the game gets really fast against USA in Sweden, is he gonna be able to keep up? And I kind of feel like the top. Maybe it's like a 13th forward. That's kind of what he was at his Helenka, for example. Like, I could see him in that type of role. Top nine. I would imagine they want a little bit more.

[Chris Peters]

The one ripple for Green Tree is that despite the fact that he has played exclusively as a right wing in his junior career, he is a left shot. So I don't know how comfortable he would be moving back to his natural side. But the left wing is a potential option for him, I think, if they can. If they see more of a glaring hole there than they do on the right side.

[Max Boltman]

All right, so here's where I think we are based on that debate. So at left wing or.

[Chris Peters]

Let's go.

[Max Boltman]

But line by line here, line one. If everyone is available McKenna, Cat and Seneca. Second line Againla, Misa Martone, third line, Boduan, Ben Kindle, Michael Hage, fourth line, Cole Reschni, Jet Luchenko, Justin Carbono. And then right at the bubble, the fifth line guys. Jake o', Brien, Caleb Denoyer, Brady Martin, and the sixth line of guys who I think there was, there's varying degrees of advocacy for, but just couldn't get enough. Merrick Vaneker, Braden Coots, Liam Greentree. And then just cut completely from our conversation, basically were Sasha Bevere, Kaden Lindstrom, Sam O'Reilly and Roger McQueen.

[Scott Wheeler]

It's a lot of good players not on there.

[Corey Prominence]

Yeah, I think in our conversations, probably the most contentious ones were Jake o' Brien and Brady Martin. Like, those are really good players, really unique players. And it's, it's frustrating because we, One, we couldn't find a spot in the lineup for them. But two, based on how the NHL availabilities go, there are clear scenarios for either of them actually being on the team. Right.

[Max Boltman]

I mean, if you don't get Seneca and let's, I think you probably get Mesa, but let's say you don't get Misa all of a sudden. Like the offensive argument for Jake o', Brien, who's putting up two points a game in the OHL right now. I think it's really strong, Scott.

[Chris Peters]

Yes. I just think it's, we've talked, we talked about it off the top of the show. I just think it's going to be tricky for o' Brien on the whole. If they're fully loaded, if they get even the majority of their NHL guys, where does he fit as a 18 year old who's not a checker and is a skill guy, but may not play as a skill guy on this ro. So I think it, it's, it's all about trickle down. It. What. One domino turns into another domino turns into another domino. Suddenly there's, I think, an opportunity for Jake o' Brien to play very high in this lineup. But when we, when we started to put together our depth chart, it's just, I mean, forget that we've cut Bovair and Lindstrom and O'Reilly and we didn't even. O'Reilly, who plays for the Hunters, and we didn't Even mention Roger McQueen in our previous chat. Even some of the guys on this fifth and sixth line that we've technically included here are also likely to get cut here. So at least if they get the majority of their NHL guys back. So there's, there's a lot that needs to be sorted. They're going to need to find out those commitments from NHL club soon. We will get to the defense, but we heard today that that Zane Parek has been confirmed as someone who's going to be playing for Team Canada and that those, I think those are going to start to trickle out now. Canada's announcing its roster as we record this in about two and a half, three weeks here. So there the the Runway here is is shrinking for some of these guys to continue to make a case. Certainly o' Brien has made a very compelling case. So has Merrick Vaneker, who we've hardly discussed playing with with Jake o' Brien on that top line in Brantford. So a lot of very, very good players. As always.

[Corey Prominence]

I think the defense is going to be a lot less contentious than this.

[Max Boltman]

You are correct about that and we will go to that next. So let's take a break right there. We'll come back with Canada's Blue Line.

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[Max Boltman]

All right, we're back and we're going to go now to the Team Canada defense. Fortunately, a lot less moving parts on that one. We all agreed on the top four D. We all agreed on the third and four right D in some order. The four that we all agree on up top, Sam Dickinson, Zayn Perek, Kashan Aitchison and Harrison Brunicke. The third and four right D, Ben Danford, Keaton Verhoff. The questions, Chris, are which of those players up top will Canada actually get? It does sound like based on reporting from Eric Francis on Wednesday, that Team Canada will get Zayn Perect. That's a huge sigh of relief for them. Will they get so lucky with San Jose and Sam Dickinson?

[Scott Wheeler]

Well, I think they better hope to because I think once you get past Sam Dickinson, there's a lot of uncertainty there. And I, you know, I'm to the point where I'm like, I mean, I don't know, you might have to start looking at guys playing their offside and different things because as we, as we kind of look towards the end, two of the guys left shot guys they had in camp in the summer were Terence Smith and Owen Protz. And I think they're both very solid junior defensemen. I think you could bring them, it just, you know, are you going to play them a significant amount of minutes? But, you know, you lose Sam Dickinson and then you're pretty much certain to have one of those two guys. I think you're looking at Cam Reed being in that mix, you know, so you're, you're, you're trying to, to find ways to, to get a little bit more out of, out of your decor. And that's why I think like Keaton Verhoff all of a sudden looks more like a lock to be in there than maybe we would have thought otherwise, even though he's, you know, a big right shot. So I, I think this is a situation and really it showed up in the camp at, in the summer. We saw, you know, Schaefer leaves and Dickinson leaves and all, you know, the Perek leaves and, and then you're starting to play with that next tier and it looks pretty, not amazing when you're, when you're kind of getting to that depth and you know, it's, it's a. It's an issue that we're going to talk about with Team USA as well because I think that defensive depth is going to be something that's tough for them, but really down that left side, the way that it thins out is fairly dramatic to me.

[Max Boltman]

So you mentioned Cam Reed. So that's a name that I debated strongly and I, I didn't know where to land on him. I ended up going with Jackson Smith. Not that I necessarily feel great about it, but part of my logic was maybe the most, I guess physically, stylistically similar to Sam Dickinson. If when you talk about the skating, when you talk about. I don't know if he has quite as much offense as Sam Dickinson does, but that's where I went. But I think I was kind of on an island with that one. Corey.

[Corey Prominence]

I haven't liked Smith at all this year. I think Chris, Chris and I have talked about this off. Off camera before. Like I think at Penn State he's been very average. I think you like the skill, you like the skating, like the size. I think you. You want. He fights the puck a little bit at that level. He basically hasn't killed a penalty all year. I thought his U18s were just good, not great last spring. Like, I think there will be other guys they will consider over him. I think he will be a really strong candidate for the team the following year. But I'd be a little surprised if he was on the team this year. Even with these issues on defense that we're talking about.

[Max Boltman]

I with.

[Chris Peters]

I do think Smith has been better than the credit that Corey's giving him there. But the, I think the. The U18s loom large. Like he had some tough moments at U18s and they got to a. They still played him. He still played 18, 19 minutes a night for that team. And I had him sort of further down as my sort of fifth left shot deep because I think the. The options start to get pretty slim. But he that I, I think that U18s especially that when it's the previous U18s and you're not talking about a 19 year old defenseman, you're still talking about an 18 year old. I think that will loom large for, for Smith in the conversation. Like they, they desperately for example, on Cam Reed who we started this conversation with, they desperately wanted Cambridge there. They were very eager to get Camry there. And Kitchener just played too long in the playoffs for that to be a reality. For Team Canada and I think that also looms large. Camry didn't go there and have an opportunity to show whether he was going to play poorly, but they felt that if Cam Reed had been there that he would have been a huge, huge part of that U18 team. And I, I think they're hot just based off of that. I think they're quite high on Cam. He's also been better. Like we talked about him a couple weeks ago on the show. Just sort of a one. I think we had a sort of one off quick conversation about Reid. A couple getting off to a slow start a couple of weeks ago. He's been outstanding basically since the moment we had that conversation in Kitchener. Like he's been playing 28, 29 minutes a night. He's been one of the better players in the OHL over the last month. So I think Cam sort of his game coming back around and how well rounded he is. He felt for me after Dickinson and Aitchison like he's right there amongst the lefties.

[Corey Prominence]

I don't think we had a conversation. I'm pretty much sure you were the one who just kind of slammed him in that when we, when we did that possible too. We mentioned how Sam O'Reilly didn't get into the conversation for us and I feel like just given the high end names that we cut, I don't think anyone here was really like contending that he needs to be in here. But I feel like if we're talking like a London night that the Hunters might try to sneak in here. I feel like on D there's like there's a way they might try and get Jared Woolley and they're just given the bleakness on the left side, especially if they don't get Dickinson, where you got a guy with size who competes, who's putting a pretty good offense this year in the ohl. I don't love him, but we're talking about some pretty. Like I said, it's thin on the left side and I could absolutely see them bringing Wooly if they, especially if they don't get Dickinson.

[Scott Wheeler]

Yeah, I, I'm with you. Actually, when I saw that on there, I was, you know, I guess a little bit surprised, but it also, it makes a ton of sense. You know, the more I thought about it as I looked at it and you're right, he has had a really, really strong season. I mean, 6 foot 5, he's looked pretty good. But yeah, I mean, like, you know, the one guy that I, that I would like for us to talk a little bit more about because I didn't have him on mind. And I think all the rest of you did was Xavier Villeneuve. Yep. Does the availability of Perek at all impact that. That decision for you?

[Corey Prominence]

Yes. He's up. They're not, they're not. They're not bringing him now.

[Scott Wheeler]

Yeah. Yeah. That's what, that's kind of what I thought.

[Chris Peters]

For what it's worth, I think that's a mistake. And we went through this entire process last year. Suddenly, if Dickinson's not there and you pat yourself on the back for having Parek, you're still one injury away from having Harrison Brunicki or Cam Reed or whoever else running one of your power plays. Which works at the junior level will not necessarily work at the OHL or at the world junior level.

[Corey Prominence]

But I think they can always fly him in. Right.

[Chris Peters]

In theory, but just, just bring, bring, bring that guy. You could, you could. They've done. We've been through that before with Jager Ferkus flying in and then sitting in the prep. Like, just bring, bring the, the insurance. Have him as your seventh or 8D. You get to bring 8D to the tournament. I think there's a role for a guy like Vil neuve as a 7 or 8 D on this team from day one. And speaking of U18s, another player who was excellent for them even at 5 on 5 at U18s. Like, I just, I think it's a. If, if you're, if you're going to bring Jared Woolley and Owen Prats and these guys to, to pet. Like, we've seen that not work again and again. Like, those guys just aren't built for the world junior level. We've. I could list off 10 players in that mold who've played for hockey, Canada at the last several world juniors who have struggled and haven't been able to. To elevate. I don't think you have that same issue if you bring Xavier Villeneuve as a power play, stop gap guy like.

[Corey Prominence]

Five on five in the worlds.

[Chris Peters]

Yes.

[Max Boltman]

I don't know that he played five on five. Yeah.

[Chris Peters]

Yeah.

[Corey Prominence]

He was like a power play guy for them by the end. The important games.

[Chris Peters]

Yeah. Early in the tournament, I thought he was, he was excellent. He was one of their better defensemen.

[Corey Prominence]

I love him, but I just didn't see that personally, but pretty disagree. That's fine.

[Max Boltman]

Let's talk about the name that Chris had that he, he had Taryn Smith. And this could be somewhat of a solution to this answer with A little bit more size. Chris, do you want to a pitch for Terence Smith?

[Scott Wheeler]

I mean, not a strong one really. You know, like, I think that's kind of what we came, that's kind of what we came back to is. And, and, and to Scott's point, I think some of the things that he said like, so in my depth chart, did I go with what I would have done or what I think Hockey Canada would do? And I think you're going to air the way that traditionally they have aired on the side of who's got a little more size, who's got a little more pop. And really Smith this year, like I said, he was involved at the, at the summer showcase, you know, didn't necessarily impact the game in a significant way, but he's a point per game defenseman right now in the whl. He's captaining the, the Silver Tips. A player like him maybe fits the mold a little bit more of what we've traditionally seen them bring. But like, that's the thing is like, I think as you get further down and this is kind of what I was alluding to when we talked about Sam Dickinson, the decisions become not just difficult, they become not great in terms of like, you don't want to get into that situation because you don't want to be debating between these players that are kind of fringe world junior players. They're very good junior players. They're professional prospects. Are they a world junior player right now? That's the question that you have to answer. And that's where players like Villeneuve, others that can maybe fit into a role, like in a power play situation or a way to present some offense that could help them. But yeah, I mean, so I like, as I made the left side, I was like, gosh, I, you know, I almost just want to start listing more guys. And that's why guys like Jared Woolley, you know, Villanueva as the, the other guys that are in the mix here still make a lot of sense to me as well because I don't think you can make a strong case for any single one of them.

[Corey Prominence]

I just looked it up. Villanuev played the third fewest even straight minutes for Team Canada in the middle round game.

[Max Boltman]

Corey will find a receipt no matter, no matter what he has to do where the time he is going to.

[Scott Wheeler]

Find the only receipt checkers better than Corey are at Costco.

[Chris Peters]

So that's, you know, who also didn't play for Team Canada at last year's World Juniors that they brought Bo Achi, who they brought to play three minutes a night and then when a power play quarterback got injured, suddenly, they had no options to run either of their two power plays.

[Corey Prominence]

Yeah, I like Xavier. He's on my death chart. I'm just. I just didn't think he was.

[Chris Peters]

Everyone's welcome to vouch for Jared Woolley or, or Owen Prots, but Jared Woolley and Owen Prots could end up being Boeki and playing three, four minutes a night. And then at least, I would argue, yeah, I would agree. And at least if, at least if you have a Villeneuve, you know exactly what his utility is, you know when to insert him into the lineup, you know what role he's playing. Why bring another. Like, they. They've got. You're talking about size. They've got plenty of size. If they bring. If they get Dickinson, they've got Dickinson, they've got Harrison Brunick, he's not mean, but he's 6, 2, 6 3. Keaton Verhoff could be on this roster. Ben Danford is one of the thickest kids in, in junior hockey. Like, they don't have a shortage of that. And I think if you're doubling down on that, you're making the same mistakes that they've made in recent tournaments here in terms of constructing the blue line. Like, they need to bring guys who can move pucks, who can run, who can potentially run the power play. And I don't think Zayn Perek gives them a free pass on, on bringing those types to round out the rest of the roster.

[Corey Prominence]

Well, that brings probably more interesting conversation than Villa Nov Is Verhoff is, I thought, coming out of the Hunka Gretzky. He's on the outside looking in two months into, you know, into his freshman year, where he's been pretty strong for North Dakota. I would be more inclined, I think, to bring him and to give him a real chance to play on this team because I think he's shown he could move pucks very well at the college level. And I don't know if he's going to play big minutes on this team, but given the bleakness on this blue line, I think he deserves a chance.

[Max Boltman]

I believe he's in everybody's top eight and it's him and Danford in some order at 3, 4. We could probably get into that right now. Like, who would you rather have as a third pair guy?

[Corey Prominence]

And I had Dan for three. But I submitted this, I think, what, like a week ago, and the more I thought about it, the more I wonder whether I should have split that and get Verhoff into the starting six.

[Max Boltman]

I believe that is how Scott has it. Right.

[Corey Prominence]

Yeah.

[Chris Peters]

If, if Corey flipped Danford and Verhoff, we'd have the exact same three pairs at the top there.

[Corey Prominence]

Yeah.

[Max Boltman]

So an easier conversation there that I think basically that's where we're arriving at is that it's Dickinson Pere. It's HS and Brunicki. It's Verhoff at 3rd.

[Scott Wheeler]

If.

[Max Boltman]

Chris, are you good with that?

[Scott Wheeler]

Yeah.

[Max Boltman]

Danford at 4rd. And then it's. The conversation still comes back to the left side. Like, I guess that's the ultimate question on this blue line is who's three and who is four? We're ultimately going to have 10 names on this list. Who do we feel good about on the third pair opposite Keaton Verhoff?

[Corey Prominence]

I'm for Cameron Reed. Just the way he skates. Like, like there's too many similarities at Town or Kenner, Mullen, Dick. Who they, who they brought as an 18 year old. Like, I think that's the guy.

[Max Boltman]

Let's pencil in Cam Reed there and then at 4 lefty, who, who's opposite of Ben Danford? Is it Owen Prats? Is it Xavier Villeneuve? Doesn't sound like you guys are sold on Jackson Smith.

[Corey Prominence]

I bring Prox Woolly or Villanov. I don't really care at this point because I don't. Because I feel like there's pretty similar, I mean not similar talent because obviously Villa does a high end offensive talent. But in terms of how I feel about them in the lineup, I'd probably just take parts. I think that high, high end physicality is something that you'd value as a 7th D and that'd be my argument.

[Max Boltman]

Okay, Chris, what do you think?

[Scott Wheeler]

Do I have to?

[Max Boltman]

You do.

[Scott Wheeler]

Oh, man. I guess you guys have talked me into Villa new a little bit more.

[Corey Prominence]

You guys. There's been one person who's been arguing for it.

[Scott Wheeler]

Well, you're. He's on your depth chart too. He wasn't on mine. So. So we're talking about the fourth pair right now. Yeah.

[Max Boltman]

But again, this is a depth chart. So if you lose Dickinson, this guy's all of a sudden in your nightly.

[Corey Prominence]

And they can bring. And they can bring eight and they probably are going to bring both of these guys. If we presume that, you know, that's. If.

[Scott Wheeler]

Yeah, I'll go. I'll. I'll. I'll lament. Yeah, I'll go with Villanuev then in, in the, in the, in the very bottom Bottom pairing situation here doesn't sound.

[Max Boltman]

Like Corey's in the mood to protest. So we're gonna, we're gonna slot Villeneuve in at 4Ld, Owen Prost at 5Ld. And then 5.5Rd, I think is unanimously Charlie Ellick one of Corey. You might have had, had Villeneuve on the right side on your depth chart.

[Corey Prominence]

But I did, I did, yes.

[Chris Peters]

I, I didn't have Ellic, but Ellic is fine as a 5rd. And you hope that he's not playing more than 12 minutes a night, I think is the.

[Max Boltman]

Well, and ultimately it's a depth chart.

[Chris Peters]

Right.

[Max Boltman]

So the, the practical is that it's probably not going at all. But just for our purposes, that's, that's the, the, the defense chart. Let's move over to the goalies here real quick because I think it's 2 to 2. I believe it's Chris and Scott have Carter George, Corey and I have Jack Ivankovic. I'll let you start. Chris, make the case for Carter George.

[Scott Wheeler]

You know, I think it's, it's experience. I mean, both of them have it. Obviously both of them have international experience. But you know, I've looked at Carter George and the way that he plays and the way that he approaches the game and you know, I think that he has all the tools there except for, you know, tremendous size and things like that. But he's a competitor, he's got high end hockey sense. He doesn't shrink in the spotlight. I mean, I think it's 1A, 1B situation for them, which is crazy because you've got a first round goalie that, you know, we're talking about as a, as a number three. But you know, I, I think I, I at this point have a little more faith overall in, in George, but it's really not a significant difference between him and Ivan Kovac.

[Corey Prominence]

And I had ivan Kovac at 1, but I feel the same way. Both are great goalies, Both have been really good in, in big events. When I've watched him this year, maybe just because I've watched a little bit more Michigan than I have Owen Sound, I just. Ivan Kovacs just looks spectacular this year, quite frankly. Like, he's just like been one of the better freshman goalies I can remember. You know, just because he's Nashville, it's hard not to connect the dots and say like, man, this guy lost. Reminds me a lot of usay Staros at the same age, but I love his game. But Carter George, you know, has played with the senior team. He was fantastic at the Last year's world junior is fantastic at his U18s. He absolutely deserves to start game one. But I feel like it's going to be a situation where the coach is just going to have to make a last minute call on who's starting that middle round game.

[Max Boltman]

I do think there's some rhyme in Ivan Kovac and the guy who won the last two gold medals and Trey Augustine. It's very hard for me to erase that from my mind. Scott.

[Chris Peters]

Yeah, I would, I would counter that. I think Carter George was Canada's best player at last year's World.

[Scott Wheeler]

Yeah, he was.

[Chris Peters]

And it's pretty hard, pretty hard not to go back to the guy who's your best player. I think to Corey's point, I would be very, very, very surprised if Carter George isn't starting on Boxing Day. Whether that changes, we'll see. Jack. Ivan Kovic only played one game last year. He was also excellent in it and it was a shootout loss to Latvia, unfortunately. But he was very good in it. But I George won gold for them at U18 Worlds as well and was debatably other than Gavin McKenna, their best player in that game as well. So the track record for both of these kids is pretty hard to contest with. But I think George, based off of how he played at last year's tournament, I think he'll be the guy.

[Max Boltman]

All right, well, with what, with what Corey said and then obviously your guys's strong feelings. Let's go George, Ivan Kovic and then Ravensburg. And so that is our Team Canada. We're going to take a quick break right there. We'll come back with Team usa. I promise that will be a quicker discussion.

[Chris Peters]

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[Scott Wheeler]

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[Corey Prominence]

I mean, when was I don't think Horkoff is really a center like I think that he's, he's much better suited for the wing because he's just. Because of his skating. He's got great skill, great goal scoring ability. But I think like bitten our just a heart. He's a hard player, a good skater, a two way player like Horkoff's a way better player. Don't get me wrong. I just don't view him as a, as a center on a world junior team.

[Scott Wheeler]

Yeah. And you know what? I think that's fair. What I would say though is that there aren't many centers, good centers in this group and I think that that that opens the door for a Will Horcuff to potentially play down the middle to allow you to kind of bring some different looks from other players. But yeah, I mean I think in general you're right and this is kind of the story of this team. I think you're putting a lot of different players maybe in not the best position that you could, but it's, it's really. You don't have a lot of other options. You know, Bednarak is one of the, he was right next. You know he was the next guy on my list as well. You know, I think that he, he has plenty of, plenty of, of. Of qualities that, that will allow him to fit there. But I mean I think that yeah, USA is in a, is in a bit of a. A they just don't have the depth at the center position. They don't have. The other thing is Horkoff has a size advantage. Some other things there too. But yeah, I mean would he be better served on the wing? I'm sure. But I don't know that they have that luxury.

[Max Boltman]

Let's get that list of players back up again. It could be any of our depth charts but the center position for USA as a whole here after James Hagan's, it doesn't really inspire you offensively. Like you have these pretty good offensive wingers. Cole Iserman, Max Plant, Trevor Connelly. Most of us have Riker Lee. We'll talk about that in a second. I do think you want. I mean there's something to be said for a good two way defensive guy down the middle doing a lot of that dirty work.

[Scott Wheeler]

It.

[Max Boltman]

USA is going to be hard up to generate offense. I think down the middle outside of like a Will. This was my logic. Like Will Horkoff. There's a tried and true recipe for him to create offense around the net. Granting even what Corey said about kind of where is it best for him. I'm Wondering like what's best for Team USA here.

[Corey Prominence]

It was very well, this was the story of their age group when they were at the ua. Team level was basically just the Hagens line and Eisenman kind of rotated in and out of it. It's very similar to the Will Smith age group with, with Perot and Leonard like it, it's very well could be like a power play that plays, you know, the whole two minutes just to make sure Hagus doesn't get off the ice. I think they're going to score, but I think secondary scoring is going to be a story when they get to the middle round games.

[Max Boltman]

Games.

[Scott Wheeler]

Yeah.

[Max Boltman]

Let's talk about Riker Lee because this is not a team that's necessarily short on skilled wingers. Corey. So I can see why maybe that it wouldn't seem like a priority area, but I think Riker Lee's first half has been really strong. So what was the decision like to leave him off.

[Corey Prominence]

For me is I look at the top nine wingers and this is where I guess come out to Horkoff. As Horcuff is a center. It changes the calculation me a little bit, but I think I look at Stiga, Ziemer, Plant, Yzerman, Horkoff and Connelly as my top nine wingers and I don't think Lee gets in the mix gear as a fourth liner. Now if I was actually making this team, I would take him over LJ Mooney. I don't know that Bob Motzko is going to take him over LJ Mooney, but I would. But I think as a I love Riker. He's looked really impressive this year as I see super skilled, super creative, could shoot the puck 5:11 below average skater though I feel like if he's not in the top nine which again that Horca, I really practically never even thought about Horkoff as a center. So like just the two of you guys did kind of surprise me a little bit. But anyways so that would change things a little bit for me. But if, but if Horkoff is on the wing that I don't really know where Riker fits in this conversation. Yeah.

[Max Boltman]

Scott, you have L.J. speaking of L.J.

[Scott Wheeler]

Mooney.

[Max Boltman]

Like you have him as your 3C.

[Chris Peters]

Yeah, again to. To Chris's point, I just don't know who's playing. Like I don't want Camille Bednarik playing with skill guys on a second line and going over the boards for offensive zone draws, which I think you want those line. Those lines at the very Very top of your lineup to be doing. So I think LJ can. Can check and do a lot of things that I think people don't give him enough credit for. He's been very good as a center. He played center as an underager for them at U18 Worlds. He's played a lot of the wing recently too. But I think when you're starting to sort of piece together the pieces of the puzzle down the middle, I would rather a Will Horkoff and an LJ Mooney there in the guts of the lineup than I would Camilla Bednarak. Like, I think if you're bringing up Bednarik, it's as a 13th or 14th forward kind of thing. I would say to Corey's point, about. About Riker Lee. Riker was a excellent for them at the World Junior Summer Showcase this summer. Like, I was convinced after having one conversation with Bob Motskow about him in a scrum that, that he was a big, big fan of Riker. Rikers, I think, got more dog in him than people realize. I think he's shown that in college this year he's scratched. Like, I think Riker can kind of play more up and down the lineup than people realize. And I would also say Corey's got Jack Murtag there as, as a fourth line. Like, Jack's not a. He's. He's a scorer. He's a. He's not a checking winger. Like, I just don't.

[Corey Prominence]

Theoretically there was. Was the left shot versus right shot there. I think. I think Riker Lee is a better player than Jack Murtagh. Like. But I really struggled after those first three left wings. I could. I couldn't find another guy I really was passionate about. That was. That was a left shot to put there. To be perfectly honest, unless I'm missing somebody obvious.

[Chris Peters]

I was part of the reason I like, I put spelacy there same and. And move spelacy to the wing for that reason.

[Scott Wheeler]

Yeah, I, I just don't think.

[Chris Peters]

I just don't think Jack's sniffing this team. Like, I don't think he's. He's even in the mix.

[Max Boltman]

All right, so let's kind of try to synthesize some of this. So the first thing we need to settle is who we're putting it to see here. So Corey, can you be sold on hor cough at 2C or. That's just like a you don't see it happening thing.

[Corey Prominence]

When was the last time he played setter?

[Max Boltman]

I don't know.

[Corey Prominence]

He didn't play hasn't played center at Michigan, didn't play center at the U18 Worlds. So you're talking about like last fall.

[Max Boltman]

Maybe he played at the ntdp.

[Chris Peters]

Yeah, yeah, he played it at the NTP in the first half of the season before he left.

[Corey Prominence]

So, so he has a plate center in a year, but he's going to be the second line center at the World Junior.

[Scott Wheeler]

Look at the list, Corey. What are we trying to do?

[Corey Prominence]

McKinney's on the same team with him in Michigan. He's the center there.

[Max Boltman]

Well, I just think for the sake of getting the best top nine that we can, I think the best way to do that is with Will Horkoff at center. So even acknowledging that, yes, like McKinney's the more natural option here, let's, let's put Will Horkoff at 2C. We'll keep Cole McKinney at 3C for 4C. Do you, do you want Bednarak at 4C or you like Spellacy there, Corey?

[Corey Prominence]

I would probably lean towards midnight. Just the experience with this national team. Yeah, that'd be my, that'd be my lead. Since spells he kind of be like his run and gun physical speed guy on the wing.

[Scott Wheeler]

Yep.

[Max Boltman]

And that's kind of Scott and I's point. Like, like you get him on the fourth line, left wing, like it's, it's a, it's a, a good solution to a depth issue there for Team usa. All right, so I think where we're at then with Team USA is top line. Is everyone good with Teddy Stiga? James Hagens, Brody Zimmer?

[Corey Prominence]

Don't think Chris is okay.

[Chris Peters]

Chris?

[Scott Wheeler]

Yeah. So like, you know, I, I think Teddy, Teddy Stiga, he's, he started to pick it up a little bit this year. You know, I did not like the way things were looking early on in the season. Very scrambly, you know, he, the only shot he took at the world Junior championship was the game winning goal last year and I, I, he's on the roster. Like he's on my team.

[Chris Peters]

I have a hard time too.

[Scott Wheeler]

Yeah, yeah. And he's got, he's got a lot of the qualities but man, it's just, it's, it's tough for me to have to see him, you know, kind of on that, that top line situation, you know, in terms of pure depth chart. You know, like I think, you know, Connolly and, and others could potentially give you more just in terms of pure depth chart. But I mean he's going to play with hey, like the top line is probably going to be Stiga, Hagens and Zeamer as the actual top line. It might not look that way.

[Corey Prominence]

It's a fun question. If that's actually the top line, who's the center? Because there have been times this year where Stig has been the center and Higgins has been the wing.

[Scott Wheeler]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think it'll probably end up still being James, but. Yes.

[Chris Peters]

I. I don't think prob. I wouldn't even use the word probably. James Hagens was the first line center for last year's team. I. Yeah, I don't think it's a conversation.

[Scott Wheeler]

Let's hope not. But the fact that it is already, that it's happening on his current team and that we're seeing the results that we're seeing from both of those guys, little concerning to me.

[Chris Peters]

BC's been a tough watch. Whoo.

[Corey Prominence]

Except for Dean Letourneau. He's having a great year.

[Scott Wheeler]

Look out for the Dino, the Dean Pot. Let's go.

[Max Boltman]

All right, so let. Let's go with Stiga, Hagen, Ziemer. I. I know some people had Plant. Some people had Eiserman on the top line. I, I think in my projection, I had those as the wingers for Will Horakoff on the second line. How do you guys want to. Do you want to argue for anyone else there? Riker Lee?

[Corey Prominence]

I feel like we all have the same top nine wingers now. If we're putting Horck at center, then I think we would all agree with the top nine wingers are. And it's just a matter of where you're.

[Max Boltman]

Essentially, my thought was Plant the playmaker to just kind of set up Eiserman.

[Corey Prominence]

Which is what they did with the. They did that with the program, too, to varying levels of success. But that was something they've tried before.

[Scott Wheeler]

Yeah, Plant. Plant will be with. I, I would. I would imagine that Plant's going to be with. With Iserman.

[Max Boltman]

And do you want that with Horkoff as a center or with McKinney?

[Scott Wheeler]

Horkoff.

[Max Boltman]

All right, so then that leaves Trevor Connelly and Riker Lee are the wingers next to Cole McKinney on line three and then line that four. I think we decided on Spellacy, but Narik and I think unanimous was Shane Vince Sagi at fourth line, right wing. Is that right?

[Scott Wheeler]

Yes, sir.

[Max Boltman]

And that's a good. That's a good checking line. Like I'll say this, they're going to play a lot. Beating up USA a little bit this year. I do think that's the Exact kind of line that you want checking the Canada line. So that's something they've got going for them. The interesting part here is the depth. And like we talked about, Scott had LJ Mooney pretty high. Cullen Potter, I think is a name that everyone kind of had somewhere on their list, usually at the bottom. I know this isn't likely, but I felt like we should at least discuss JP Hurlburt leading the Western Hockey League and scoring. Look, for political reasons, I get it. You left the ntdp. You're probably not getting onto the world Junior team in your draft year. But is there any validity to this discussion?

[Corey Prominence]

I don't. I think next week, when he plays those NTP teams games, if there's any blood, bad blood in those games, perhaps.

[Chris Peters]

I think it's actually in the bylaws now that if you search JP Hurlburt's name in the USA Hockey database, it comes up with files empty. So.

[Scott Wheeler]

Yeah. Yeah, I will. Here. Max. I just want to. Just to put a. Like, let's make sure that we. We understand fully, like the. The chances of this happening.

[Max Boltman]

Oh, no.

[Scott Wheeler]

Okay. Just wanted to make sure that everybody. 0.0% chance. And. And it is. And it is for the reasons that you mentioned. It is the political thing. It is, but it. But at the same time, if you take a player that left the program for and then ignore all those other 22 guys that are still there, it's hard to make that sales pitch to future recruits, I would imagine. So is it. Is it fair? No. But would I have them on my team otherwise? No, I would. Yeah.

[Corey Prominence]

All right.

[Max Boltman]

Well, then let's go to the defense here. And again, like, this is a. I.

[Corey Prominence]

Might bring him over Potter if I was really like, well, I'm not bringing Potter.

[Scott Wheeler]

I'm not. Yeah. Yeah.

[Max Boltman]

So Chris is bringing 13 forwards to the World Juniors for TBSA. No injuries allowed. Let's go to the defense here now. And there's a lot of unanimity there as well. Everybody's got Cole Hudson, everybody's Got Adam Cleaver, E.J. emery, Dakota Rayo Mullen, who I don't think was on our projection in the summer. I believe he's on all four of these lists.

[Chris Peters]

So he wasn't initially invited. He was a late invite due to injury to the summer showcase. He wasn't even initially invited by USA.

[Max Boltman]

Hockey, but he was very good there, and he's had an extra.

[Chris Peters]

He was good there.

[Max Boltman]

And that's how he, you know, becomes a unanimous pick for all of us. As well as Luke Osborne, different slottings. But I, you know, this is a good core. I don't know that it's going to wow you. I think Cole Hudson has the potential to be one of the very best defensemen at the world juniors, but it's all about kind of how you surround this group here. And of the names that we're going to debate here, I don't know that there's anybody who feels amazing. I mean, you're talking about Blake Fiddler, Jacob Rombach. Who else got a mention here? Sam Lorilla. It's not splashy, but is there anyone who want Will Skahan, anyone want to make an impassioned case for a name they had on their list?

[Chris Peters]

I think Chase Reed, he was, he was my fourth right shot defenseman. They're much deeper on the right side than they are on the left side, so it's tricky. But I think Chase Reed has made a very, very compelling case to if not be on this team, then at the least be in camp. I think he's one of the best players in the OHL right now and has really like even elevated this year beyond how good he was last year immediately. And I think he's a player that they could benefit from bringing into the fold and getting this kind of experience, even if it's as a number seven or number eight defenseman. So that was my one where. And you'll notice like I don't have Henry Burstavich or Blake Fiddler. Two first round picks. I don't have actually Fiddler was a second round pick in the end, but I don't have either of those guys on my team. And I, I think Chase has, Chase has played his way into that mix for me. I don't know whether he will for NCAA legend Bob Motsko, which I think is what Chris is going to say here. But this was supposed, I think supposed to in theory be our case.

[Corey Prominence]

Yeah.

[Chris Peters]

And our team and Chase re. Chase Reed would be firmly in the mix. Not sure he's playing in your top six, but I think he, he belongs in that 7, 8, 9, 10 conversation for this group.

[Corey Prominence]

It'd be quite a change of heart for them to have cut Chase reed from the U18 World Team. He was at the camp, they cut him, they brought him in, saw him, left him home. And then six months later you're bringing him to play for the U20 team ahead of all those guys on that team, including Blake Fiddler, who was one of. I think they're. He was their minutes leader. At that tournament. So I like Chase Reed a lot. I'd just be surprised if he actually was on this.

[Chris Peters]

I also part of the case for Reed, for me, is that similar to the conversation we had with Canada is, is Luke Osborne going to be running your, your second power play here? Like, is that what we're, Is that.

[Corey Prominence]

Maybe I would get. I would guess so, yes. But I also kind of say, like I said earlier, I don't think that first power play is getting off the ice. Yeah, I don't.

[Max Boltman]

They should.

[Corey Prominence]

I don't care what this. I don't care who's on the second power play. They're not Plague.

[Chris Peters]

With the talent you have on the second power play, I don't think that's going to be the case. You could have Riker Lee and Trevor Connolly on and.

[Scott Wheeler]

Well, you know what? You could just potentially just have Cole Hudson play the entire power play and then.

[Chris Peters]

Yes, call it.

[Scott Wheeler]

Good. But, but Scott, go ahead.

[Chris Peters]

I think that's a re. I think that's a very real possibility. Why don't, why not have Cole? I think there's enough talent that you need to get Riker Lee and Trevor Connolly and some of these because they're going to have Plant and Those guys on PP1. They always have. Yeah, but I think you want to get those other guys looks and touches and, and feeling the puck there. So I, yeah, I hadn't actually considered it, but Hudson running both units, I don't think is.

[Scott Wheeler]

Yeah, I mean, like, that's, that's, that's how I would do it. But you know, like, and, and I'll tell you what, Scott. Like, I think the Chase reach the, the. If you are going to have an evaluation camp. Camp Chase Reed 100% should be in that camp. And yes, it's, you know. Yeah, you, you take him over like Drew Shock and other guys that were part of your group last year at the under 18s. But I think based on what we've seen from those guys in college and Reed in, in junior, you know, this is a guy that's playing. He's leading all players in minutes in the OHL, you know, playing around 28 minutes a game. So, you know, this is a real player that, that you should. This camp. Like, he should have been there in the summer, too.

[Chris Peters]

Yes.

[Scott Wheeler]

Like, I, I, I thought for sure he should have been there in the summer. That's what that is for. That is there. I'd rather take more guys that I'm less sure about than guys that I'm really sure about like they've done where they've sent the, the returnees home this year. They didn't do that. But in past years, send the returnees home. Give these other guys a look. But I, but I agree. Like, to Corey's point, what's. How much of a change of heart are they going to have over that. That period of time?

[Corey Prominence]

But look at the, look at the right shots. Cleaver, Emery.

[Scott Wheeler]

Yeah, he's not going to fit.

[Max Boltman]

Hensler.

[Corey Prominence]

Yeah, Hensler. Like he's not on the team. Like he's just not on the team.

[Scott Wheeler]

He's not. He's not. You're right. But.

[Chris Peters]

But.

[Max Boltman]

And I think, you know, I don't. I think Fiddler did nothing to not endear himself to be. To be back after the U18s. Like, I think to me he was a Fairly easy for RD.

[Chris Peters]

I thought Fiddler was just okay at U18s, honestly. And, and I, and he. He's not having a great year.

[Corey Prominence]

Like, I know he isn't. He's one of the best players on one of the best teams in this WHL right now. He.

[Chris Peters]

The last few times I've watched Blake, he has fought it.

[Corey Prominence]

His puck plays kind of crap, but I think he's a good defender.

[Scott Wheeler]

But yeah, that's the thing is like, I think, I think right now, like, if you're usa though, and you're looking like these are. I have a feeling the debates are much more impassioned and much more banging your head against the wall in the actual USA room. And we haven't even gotten to the.

[Max Boltman]

One where, oh, the goalies.

[Scott Wheeler]

We haven't even gotten to the one where you're just like, oh, so.

[Max Boltman]

Well, we'll get there very shortly here. Let's settle on our D here. So I believe we're pretty consensus that Cole Hudson is one ld. Split opinions on who's opposite him between those three.

[Scott Wheeler]

Right.

[Max Boltman]

Defenseman. Anyone have a really strong feeling that it should be Cleaver, Emory or Hensler?

[Chris Peters]

I just think, I just think it'll be Emery because of the track familiar program of them as a pair.

[Max Boltman]

Chris?

[Scott Wheeler]

Yeah, I don't. I'm. I'm. I. I think EJ is probably going to be on there. Bottom pairing. Yeah.

[Max Boltman]

All right, so we'll say Cleaver for now. Second pair would be. I think we're. Are we saying Osborne? Are we saying Dakota?

[Corey Prominence]

I mean, I think, I honestly think those SEC. That was those next 4D which I presume are gonna be Osborne, Emory, Hensler and Rayon Mullen. You could just do whatever combination you want of those. To be perfectly honest, I think that. I think they're the pretty similar talent wise.

[Chris Peters]

I think Osborne is probably the second pairing guy over Ro Mullen.

[Scott Wheeler]

I. I agree.

[Corey Prominence]

Yeah.

[Scott Wheeler]

And.

[Max Boltman]

And my thought there was to go with Osborne, with Emery, just because I think Hensler a little more of the offense too, to spread it around. But I think you can kind of go any different way with that.

[Corey Prominence]

You get the Wisconsin teammates together too.

[Scott Wheeler]

Yep. Yeah.

[Max Boltman]

Okay. So then on the. On the fourth pair, I guess we're talking about did we. Did we decide on Fiddler or what did we decide on there?

[Scott Wheeler]

I mean, it's a pick them. It's a pick them. And. And honestly, it. It doesn't matter because they're never going to see the ice.

[Max Boltman]

We decided to be very sad.

[Corey Prominence]

I wouldn't surprise if they. Chris or I. If Bob just brought. If Matsuko just brought Ron back. Be quite honest.

[Chris Peters]

And that's. That's the reason I had Ron back as.

[Corey Prominence]

Yeah.

[Max Boltman]

So Ron Bach will be the 4Ld and it's opposite. I think we're saying Fiddler at this point. All right. So the goalies to Chris's point, when I was putting my projection together, I was like, all right, somebody's got to be off to a hot start. And I went through our projections from the summer and I did not like what I found. So I left it exactly as we had this summer, which was Nick Kemp, Caleb Heil and Patrick Quinlan. I know you guys all had slightly differences. I don't think anyone else had Quinlan on this roster. Harrison Boddinger and Cam Hendrickson were the. The two names that we ended up vying between. Between the three of you. Chris, how do you see this position shaking out for the U.S. i mean.

[Scott Wheeler]

I think Kemp is the only option and will be the only option for them as the number one goalie. Caleb Heil is going to the world junior a challenge, but he is very much still in the mix and very likely, I think, to be the number two goalie on this team. I put Harrison Bottager there because he's the. Like he won't be because he wasn't even that at the Under 18 Worlds last year. I don't know what happened where, you know, he was their best goalie at the USA CHL Challenge and then really saw playing time dip over the course of the year. But really it is. It is a. Like, just think of the. The. The gap from Trey Augustine and Hampton Slickinski and Jacob Fowler the year before to where we're at now. And listen, it's hard. I don't mean to be, like, mean to these goalies. Like, they are all, like, Kemp is a. You know, they're. They're. They're legitimate prospects, and they're. They're going through it. But the fact of the matter is, is, like, you know, like, Cam Hendrickson and Jackson Parsons and. Or Jack. Jack Parsons and all the guys that they have brought in to the camp, they're playing. They've played two games. You know, they. They have not even. They're not their team starter. They're barely their backup at this point. And so this is the. This is the pool that you're pulling from. And, like, I was even trying to look outside of, like, is there anybody that we're missing? Is there anybody out there? Who do you got? Do you have one, Scott?

[Chris Peters]

They're. They're not going to be in the mix, but both Minchak and Fedorov. Fedorov have been two of the better goalie. Like, I've seen both them play live already this year. They've been two of the better goalies in the ohl, which is why it's ironic that. That Max had had Quinlan on his team, another OHL guy, because he's been. I think he's like Sarnia, but he was disaster.

[Scott Wheeler]

He was the starter at U18s last.

[Chris Peters]

Yeah, exactly. But. But, like, Minchak has outplayed Gavin Betts in Kingston and Federal's the starter in Ottawa. Like, they've. They're not going to be in this conversation. They've never represented USA Hockey.

[Scott Wheeler]

That is a good. That is a good poll, though.

[Chris Peters]

There are American goalies. Yeah, there are American goalies playing. Playing well. They're just not the five who were in camp. Although Kemp. Kemp's been decent this year.

[Scott Wheeler]

Yeah, like, he's been fine. And. And I know that they went to look at him again just to kind of see how he's been doing.

[Chris Peters]

And.

[Scott Wheeler]

And it sounds like, you know, he had a good weekend in front of the USA brass. And, you know, it is. It is what it is. You know, I think that it's probably the weakest goaltending crop that I've seen here. I mean, Corey, I was thinking, like, they did have, you know, a few years ago, Caden and Barico was their starter, but then they. They did eventually go to Augustine, who was the underager at the time, you know, and. And went back and forth a little bit. So, you know, there have been times where. Where the goaltending has been a weaker position then there have also been years where you didn't really know what they're going to have like the year Kyle Kaiser was their starter and other things like that. They, and they find a way. You just got to hope that one of those guys is going to have his, his A game in, in that setting because otherwise it's, it's going to.

[Max Boltman]

Be a long tournament or a short tournament or a short tournament.

[Scott Wheeler]

It's gonna take a while. Yeah. In front of the home fans too. So. Good. Good one.

[Max Boltman]

All right, so here is our Team usa. Not the most inspiring group, but you never know. And then you get into one of these tournaments, I think you're, you're hoping that a team comes together and you can make something happen. And if you get to the knockout round, good things are possible. That is going to do it for us. After a long and grueling episode of the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect series, you can of course catch more of Chris over at Flow Hockey and on his podcast called up. We'll talk to you soon.

[Chris Peters]

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[Scott Wheeler]

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So is Saldana.

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[Max Boltman]

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[Chris Peters]

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[Max Boltman]

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[Chris Peters]

Oh, I got it. I'll give it to my abuela. I'll take reindeer paper with.

[Max Boltman]

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[Max Boltman]

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