Loading summary
Transcript141 lines
- [00:00]
Jesse Granger
Buying a car is a big deal,
- [00:02]
Mark Lazarus
so you shouldn't go in blind with the Cargurus app. The new dealership mode is like having
- [00:08]
Jesse Granger
a personal cheat sheet in your pocket. Instantly compare the car in front of you to similar options. See deal ratings and price history, and estimate your final price. It's no wonder Cargurus is the number one most visited car shopping site according to SimilarWeb's estimated traffic data. Buy or sell your next car today with CarGurus.
- [00:26]
Mark Lazarus
At CarGurus.com Go to CarGurus.com to make
- [00:30]
Jesse Granger
sure your big deal is the best deal.
- [00:32]
Max Bolman
That's C-A-R G U R U S.com CarGurus.com AI is transforming customer service. It's real and it works. And with Fin, we've built the number one AI agent for customer service. We're seeing lots of cases where it's solving up to 90% of real queries for real businesses. This includes the real world, complex stuff like issuing a refund or canceling an order. And we also see it when FIN goes up against competitors, especially top of all the performance benchmarks, top of the G2 leaderboard. And if you're not happy, we'll refund you up to a million dollars, which I think says it all. Check it out for yourself at Finn
- [01:08]
Jesse Granger
AI, you're a pro at running your life, at committing to your workout, at showing up every day.
- [01:12]
Max Bolman
At Bombas, we're pros too. Pros at making socks. Our sport assortment has specialized socks for whatever sport you're committed to. Running, hiking, golf, Pilates, and so much more. Made with sweat, wicking yarns, blister fighting details and targeted arch support. Bombas sport is pro level Socks from the pros.
- [01:31]
Jesse Granger
Socks for another pro. You go to bombus.com audio and use
- [01:34]
Max Bolman
code audio for 20% off your first purchase. That's bombus.com and use code audio.
- [01:51]
Mark Lazarus
This is the athletic hockey show.
- [02:06]
Max Bolman
Hey, everybody. Max Bolman here alongside Mark Lazarus and Jesse Granger for another episode of the Athletic Hockey Show. What a weekend of hockey. Guys, we were absolutely spoiled. It's Sunday was the, the peak of it. I mean, we, we get a phenomenal Game 7 between Montreal and Tampa. Super tight the whole way. And, and that's, that's where I want to start here last. How did Montreal pull this off? They finished with nine shots on goal. They get a win, fewest ever in a playoff win. And it's a, a big one.
- [02:32]
Mark Lazarus
You know, it's hilarious. Sometimes we spend all weekend in the show trying to Come up with something to talk about on Monday. And we've got like six lead topics today with, you know, Toronto and Edmonton and the Wild Avalanche series. And now, you know a game seven where a team has nine shots on goal and wins. And they're like bragging about it in the post game locker room. Like imagine how different would be if they had lost that game. That would have been like a scarlet letter around the necks of this team forever. And it becomes a punchline because hockey is the stupidest sport in the world. I love it. They had no business winning that game whatsoever. And they go and they beat one of the most dominant teams of the era in a game seven on the road with one of the worst performances we've ever seen. I love this stupid Sport.
- [03:15]
Max Bolman
It went 27 minutes, Jesse. 27 minutes between shots on goal. Let alone goals, shots on goal. The entire second period is within that Spanish.
- [03:25]
Jesse Granger
Yeah, the entire Habs team wasn't terrible. There was one guy back there, Jakob do, who was pretty awesome, who stood on his head all series long. He's a rookie. He's facing Andre Vasilevsky, the goalie of this generation. He probably watched him as a kid, even though Vasily is not that old, but Dobish is so young that he probably grew up watching Vasilevsky and he outdoels him in this series. He was so good. That is like the series of legends for a Montreal goalie for a rookie to come in and do that. And he was spectacular yesterday. And he's a huge reason why they're able to get those lucky bounces. I mean, lucky maybe not. It was the. The. The Suzuki tip is obviously goes off a Tampa defender and into the net. And then the second goal is batted from behind the net off as Levsky and. And you only get the opportunity to get those lucky bounces to win the game. If Jakob Dovish is as awesome as he was.
- [04:14]
Max Bolman
Yeah, I mean, we talked about this with Team USA in Canada and John Cooper is the connective threat on those two games. He comes up on the wrong end of both of it. But the goalie is on the team. They're allowed to be. The reason you win the game, it doesn't take away from it. To me, do I think Tampa deserve to win this game? Yes, I do. Tampa was the better team all night. That being said, Jakob Dovish was the best player on the ice. And this was a dead tight series that was liable to be stolen by a goalie. I think if you told me that was going to happen, I would have thought it would be Andre Vasilevsky, but it's Jakob Dovish and that's. That's Montreal. That's credit to Montreal that they have that guy in their net and they can do that last.
- [04:49]
Mark Lazarus
Yeah, I mean, I mean, look, this was not a great series by the Canadians. It was certainly not a bad one. They were good. They were really good with the. On the power play, five on five. They were kind of underwhelming. Stafkovsky, Caulfield, Suzuki were all badly outscored at 5 on 5 in this series, but they kind of came through every time. They need the most adept guys like. Guys like Kirby Dock and Zach Boldu coming through. And obviously Dovish, who, you know, I think he's third behind Anderson and Ulmark in goal saved above expected. He won this series for the Canadiens. I don't think the Canadiens, you know, quote unquote, deserve to win this series just based on their overall team play. But like you said, it only takes a goalie. And this was always going to be a toss up coming in, and it was a toss up down to the last few minutes of the third period. We didn't know who was going to win this series. And that's the kind of first round matchups you want.
- [05:35]
Max Bolman
Did Tampa deserve to win the series? They had a lot of flat nights in this series. I don't think Tampa deserved the series anymore. They deserved last night, but they didn't deserve the bulk of the series any more than Montreal did. I didn't think.
- [05:45]
Mark Lazarus
I think that's fair. This is not a dominant performance by either team, which is why, you know, all of a sudden I, you know, everyone was looking at Tampa. We always look at Tampa. Every year we're conditioned to look at Tampa as the team to beat in the east despite their now chronic failures in the first round. But, you know, all of a sudden I'm looking at Buffalo because I just see flaws. I see flaws with the Canadians. I saw flaws with the Lightning. And every team in the east is flawed. We talked about it all year, that there were no great teams in the east, just pretty good ones. And Carolina we could debate until we're blue in the face, until they do it in the playoffs, I can't call them great. So I look at Buffalo now as a team that might be the team to beat in this, in this conference, because as exciting as the Canadians are, as awesome as the environment is, as much as we want to see a Stanley cup final at the Bell center, my God, how awesome would that be? I'M not sure they've got the goods based on that series.
- [06:36]
Jesse Granger
We, we talked about how Tampa was flat. Maybe Montreal's top players didn't show up. But we have to talk about Nikita Kucherov without a single point in the series in seven games. And maybe he's dealing with some kind of injury. But I mean he wasn't even getting chances. Like, yeah, like Gonzalves is going to have nightmares about Jakob Dovish. Not just last night. He robbed him several times last night. But I feel like throughout the series, more than half of Jakob Dosh's highlight reel saves were on Gonzalez. He's never going to forget this, but none of them were on Nikita Kucherov. Like, it's not like he was all around the net trying to score. To be honest with you, the only time I remember Nikita Kucherov interacting with Jakob Doic is him jarring, jawing at him as he's going to the bench in two different games, trying to get under his skin. And this rookie goalie is just completely owning Nikita Kucherov on the ice and he's just like doing whatever he can to to. I don't know what he's saying. Thinking he's getting under his skin. It's clearly not working. Nikita, maybe try getting shots on goal. It's wild how invisible Nikita Kucherov was in this series.
- [07:40]
Mark Lazarus
And look, this is becoming an issue with the Lightning. Their biggest stars are not coming through in the playoffs. Vasilevsky has been pretty bad the last four playoffs. Now I think he's got an.886 save percentage over the last four playoffs. He's 7 and 16. Braden Point. I don't know if this is an aberration just due to injury or a trend. He's not the player he was. He just turned 30. Usually you don't fall off the cliff that early, but it he doesn't look like Braden Point anymore. You know, obviously not having Victor Headman was a huge deal for this for the Lightning team. If he's in this series, they probably win it. But right now is Darren Radish the guy? Are they going to overpay him based on one fluke season or is he really a 30 goal defenseman? Like there's a lot of deep concerns for the Tampa Bay Lightning moving forward. It's been like every year we're like we get suckered in and then every year, you know, whether it's against Florida or Florida again or I think it was Toronto a few years ago, they're just not coming through and it matters most.
- [08:30]
Max Bolman
This is consecutive years that Tampa was at least like a strong top two in the east team for, for our staff coming in. And they go out in the first both times. Four straight years. You mentioned it. I just don't know what you do. Like, can you. You can't really make a major earthquake to this group because of everything that they've accomplished in the past because of their ages. I don't think you're. You're massively remaking this. And yet when you hit the same wall four years in a row, that is the impulse.
- [08:59]
Jesse Granger
Yeah, it's. It's fascinating. Like you said, the roster construction, they're all like, there isn't room to make a massive change. The other option is coach. You're not upgrading from John Cooper? Like, no, you could say, oh, they need a different voice or whatever. I don't believe in that. I think get the best coach and they've got the best coach. So to me, there's no way to upgrade that. It's going to be interesting. And like Mark said, Vasilevsky has struggled. His numbers are not good. And especially last year against Florida, I thought Vassi was a big reason they lost that series. This time. You can't put it on Vasilevsky. Like, he was nails in this series. Maybe the stats because Montreal can't get enough shots for him to have a good save percentage. But like in game six, he was the only reason that there was game seven. And then last night, like, those two goals were fluky, weird bounces. Every shot that was an actual shot that a goalie can read and predict. Vassi was just spot on. So they've got one of the best goalies in the world with all the history, like, if you can't do it with him, you're not going to do it with anyone. I there. It's. It's tough to find a way for this team to improve.
- [10:02]
Mark Lazarus
First of all, I want to haul you into kangaroo court for saying Vassy five times. It's long. But it's funny because, like, Tampa right now is Toronto, right? All those years of Toronto where it was all these great regular seasons and then first round flameouts. The difference, of course, is they've won two Stanley Cups. So it's easy to say whatever. You know, they've already got their two Cups, but I mean, they're basically having the same run now that Toronto had all those years where they're just underperforming when it matters most. And I don't know how much leash you get with that. You're right. They're not going to find a better coach than John Cooper. You're not going to find a better player than Nikita Kucherov. These guys are signed long term. It's a, It's a well constructed team. They dominate all regular season long. I don't know what you do about it. Like, you could write off two Florida ones losses in a row because a Florida plays a style of play that nobody else plays. And they went on to win the championship both years. But the Toronto loss, this loss, it's. I don't know. I don't know what this team is anymore.
- [10:57]
Max Bolman
I will say this last. Like, I. From what you were saying about Buffalo maybe being the favorite and the. I, I think you're asleep in a little bit on Montreal. I think this was a heavyweight series and the reason that neither team looked all that dominant is because they were both really, really good. And it was a little bit of a war of attrition. Like, I don't think Buffalo saw any. Saw nearly the level of challenge that Montreal did in the first round. And so if they made it look a little easier to me, that makes sense. And that would be why I, like, I think Montreal is the favorite. I would probably take Montreal on six in this upcoming Montreal Buffalo series.
- [11:26]
Mark Lazarus
It's fair. It's wide open. Like I said, these teams are all pretty good. Buffalo is not a great team yet. Montreal is not a great team yet. They're on their way, but they're not great teams. Carolina should be a great team, but it is really wide open. These where you have the Avalanche and then everybody else in the west. You don't have that in the east right now. So it is wide open. There's Montreal. Absolutely could get to the Stanley Cup Final in this setup. I just feel like they're not a. They are building things the right way. They have done everything. They are now the model franchise for a rebuild. But they're still. They're not at that last step yet. Like, I don't feel like they're done with that process yet.
- [12:00]
Max Bolman
No.
- [12:00]
Mark Lazarus
So if they win now, it's. It's ahead of schedule. That's all I'm saying.
- [12:05]
Max Bolman
Yeah. Do you want to get to like. Well, let's. Let's get to this Montreal Buffalo series and I guess we can start with what Buffalo did to get here. They made it look pretty easy in that elimination game against Boston.
- [12:15]
Jesse Granger
Yeah, that's because the Bruins are terrible. Just to be completely honest like that. The Bruins have been terrible all Year the Bruins are not a good hockey team. They were carried to the playoffs by Jeremy Swayman single handedly. He's the only reason that team's in the playoffs and he was the only reason that any of these games were remotely competitive. I mean, I thought Buffalo was clearly the better team in every aspect of play. In all six games, Jeremy Swayman had a couple where he was amazing and it was close or Boston was able to pull out a close victory. But yeah, I mean, to me that was a Buffalo team that clearly has arrived. They are talented at all three levels. Forward defense and their goalies played well against a Boston team that was just completely overmatched and was relying on Jeremy Swayman to single handedly steal it for him. And he did a couple times and the rest of the times he wasn't able to.
- [13:08]
Mark Lazarus
I really like this Buffalo team right now. Look at their third line. Their third line is Josh Norris with Zach Benson and Josh Doane. That's like the kind of third line that wins you championships, right? When you got that kind of depth, that kind of an energy line like that. And I, you know, I mean, we've been talking. I, I was out west, so I was talking about especially Quinn Hughes and Cale Makar and Miro Haskin and. But I think Buffalo might have the best blue line in the league right now. I mean, you got Dahleen, who's, who's every bit as good as most of those guys. Samuelson and Owen Power and Bo Byram Kesselring on the third pairing. Like, there's so much to like about this team and their stars are playing like stars. Tage Thompson, Alex Tuck, you know, Byram Dahlin, these guys are playing like stars right now. All their best players are coming through when it matters most. I like, I like Lyon and goal. I think he's calmed things down there. You've got a backup. You know, we see this a lot where you need to have two legitimate goalies and you know, Pekalukan UKA Pekalukonen is still absolutely a capable player. I just like the way this team is built. I mean, they beat Boston with what, one power play goal and they did it handily. That's how good this team is at five on five.
- [14:09]
Max Bolman
Well, what's interesting, Laz, you mentioned that third line. I think the third line was actually even at its best when they had Noah Oslin there, who was out and so Norris is back in now. But I like that line even more when Oslin was between Benson and Doan. So they got not only that, they've got, you know, depth too to this. Like they can get way different combinations. They can do. Peyton Krebs had a monster series.
- [14:27]
Mark Lazarus
Yeah.
- [14:27]
Max Bolman
That the Eichel returns. Krebs and Tuck have delivered for them in these playoffs. My question though is, is did they really have to check at nearly the level that Montreal did against Tampa and is this going to be a huge wake up call of a series for the Buffalo Sabres when, when Montreal comes in off of that and Buffalo's coming in off of. Off of how they came in, I think that's going to be a little bit of a shock to them. They, they got the horses, but I.
- [14:51]
Mark Lazarus
It's certainly a step up. It's absolutely a step up in competition. No question.
- [14:56]
Jesse Granger
It kind of reminds me of what I wondered about Colorado because they just smoke showed the LA Kings and like they hadn't played a competitive game in weeks. And then you got Minnesota who's coming off of a battle with Dallas. And I thought maybe, I was like thinking maybe game one, Minnesota will kind of come out there and shock them. Like they're just. Colorado wouldn't be quite up to speed. And that obviously wasn't the case. So it's going to be interesting to see like to me, a very similar situation in the East.
- [15:23]
Max Bolman
Well, we're going to talk about that one a little bit later in the show. For now, let's take a quick break. We're going to come back and we're going to talk about the big Toronto Maple Leafs front office hires with Chris Johnston. I don't know about you, but I like keeping my money where I can see it. Unfortunately, traditional big wireless carriers also seem to like keeping my money too. After years of overpaying for wireless, I finally got fed up with with crazy high wireless bills, bogus fees and free perks that actually cost more in the long run. And I switched to Mint Mobile. And I gotta tell you that the amount of money that I'm saving now on Mint compared to the other big wireless carrier, it's a game changer. You should stop overpaying for wireless just because that's how it's always been. Mint exists. Purely to fix that. Mint Mobile is here to rescue you with premium wireless plans starting at 515 bucks a month, you can bring your own phone and number. You activate with ESIM in minutes, you can start saving immediately. No long term contracts, no hassle. Ditch overpriced wireless and get three months of premium wireless service from Mint Mobile for 15 bucks a month. I'm telling you this is what I use. And I think you should use it too. Something I noticed since I switched from my old provider is that Mint Mobile's wireless service is crystal clear. The quality is great. Plus, like I already said, you're gonna save some money. If you like your money, Mint Mobile is for you. You can shop plans@mintmobile.com NHLShow that's mintmobile.com NHLShow upfront payment of $45 for 3 month 5 gigabyte plan required equivalent to $15 a month new customer offer for first 3 months only. Then full price plan options available. Available. Taxes and fees are extra. See Mint Mobile for details.
- [17:20]
Mark Lazarus
A Better Help ad Hold on one second.
- [17:25]
Chris Johnston
I just need to.
- [17:31]
Mark Lazarus
What if you had a room where no one interrupts? No notifications, no expectations, just space to talk with. BetterHelp therapy happens in a space that's yours. Visit betterhelp.com randompodcast for 10% off your first month of online therapy. Security program on spreadsheets, new regulations piling up and audit dread. It's time for Vanta. Vanta automates security and compliance, brings evidence into one place and cuts audit prep by 82%.
- [18:04]
Jesse Granger
Less manual work, clearer visibility, faster deals, zero chaos.
- [18:08]
Mark Lazarus
Call it compliance or call it compliance. Get it? Join the 15,000 companies using Vanta to prove trust. Go to vanta.com calm.
- [18:24]
Max Bolman
All right, we are back. And as good as those games last night were, we had an additional piece of huge NHL information come across. Chris Johnson joining us now, our NHL insider at the Athletic. He he is minutes away from heading down to the Toronto Maple Leafs press conference for the introduction of new general manager John Chayka and Executive Hockey advisor. Do I have that title right? Matt Sundin?
- [18:45]
Chris Johnston
Yeah, something along that. A lot of words, not a lot of clarity. Exactly what it means yet.
- [18:50]
Max Bolman
What do you think this signals? I mean it's obviously been kind of a hot button as this has kind of leaked out in the recent days. A lot of opinions about John Chaca and Matt Sundin in that combination. What do you think that signals about what the Toronto Maple Leafs kind of view as their short and medium term direction here?
- [19:06]
Chris Johnston
Well, definitely from an ownership level and you know, from senior leadership level. The Leafs want to be in the playoffs next year and you know, I think it's going to be a gargantuan task for anyone to take on, but in this case, John Chayka as the main hockey decision maker has been tasked with. You know what I think is almost a near impossible mission. The Leafs finished 28th overall in the standings. Their cupboards are bare. Obviously the product of 10 years of all in kind of maneuvering at the trade deadline. This is not a particularly strong free agent class. You know, there's not a clear window for them to return to being an upper echelon team in the league coming off the season they just had. And yet that's the mandate that's being given to this new front office. So, you know, I think that they're in a really difficult spot right off the get go. You know, more than likely I would say John Cejka is going to oversee perhaps the departure of someone like Auston Matthews in the coming years with just two years left on his contract. And so this was a tough spot to be dropped into, but Chaika waited six years almost to get back as a gm and I guess you take the jobs you're offered.
- [20:12]
Mark Lazarus
We see this all the time in hockey where guys, you know, fail their first time around in a head coaching job or as a GM and then they get that second chance and they succeed. John Chaega is a little different. He failed pretty spectacularly in Arizona. It was a disaster. Yes, ownership is everything that happens in Arizona deserves an asterisk. But what did he accomplish? What did he do and what has he done in the meantime that has led the Maple Leafs to think that he's the guy to do this job?
- [20:38]
Chris Johnston
Million dollar question, Laz. And I can't really put myself in the shoes of Keith Pelley and tell you what, what they saw as separating him from the other potential options they had. I think if we're going to be charitable to John chayka, he was 26 when he became the GM in Arizona. He's now almost 37 in Toronto. So that's a pretty key 10 years of learning and experience gathering in anyone's career, I would say. And the fact that he has a data background, founded the company Stathletes family business that's still going and still providing analytical information NHL teams. You know, I could see where he's the sort of thinker that, that they were looking for, maybe someone still a bit younger. But you know, the fact he hasn't worked in the league and there's been 25 GMs hired since he last, you know, since he resigned in Arizona in July 2020, that kind of tells you that this wasn't a guy in demand. This isn't necessarily what you would expect a team like the Maple Leafs to have, you know, a lot of resources that other organizations in the NHL don't have to go and chase the best talent, especially in the non cap related things, you know, like off ice personnel. And so, you know, this is that. I'll tell you the reaction I've gotten in my conversations around the league the last week is a lot of people are stunned and surprised that John Chaco was the guy that the Leafs chose out of all, you know, after this process. And so I'm with you. I'm willing to sit here and say for sure, I could see him having another successful act, a more productive time in the GM's chair after the way things went in Arizona. But it's a big Hail Mary right now for the Leafs. And this is an organization in theory that shouldn't have to be, you know, tossing a 60 yard pass into the end zone and open.
- [22:16]
Jesse Granger
Chris, as you mentioned, he's kind of the numbers guy. He was the youngest GM ever. He's not really a hockey guy. And then they, they kind of announced this pairing with Sundin, who is as much a hockey guy as anyone. Like what do you see his role being and how good of a match do you think those two are kind of tag teaming this?
- [22:35]
Chris Johnston
Well, I mean, from the PR standpoint, hiring Matt Sundin is good business. If you're the Maple Leafs. You know, probably the most successful run in my lifetime for the Leafs teams were the ones where Mats was the captain of the team and the leading scorer every year. You know, unimpeachable character. Someone who's always professed nothing but undying love for the city and the organization. I think it makes sense to want him involved. You know, what is going to be tough for Matt Sundin is he's getting thrown in at this very perilous time for the Leafs and they're taking a lot of heat in the marketplace right now. And as I sort of sketched out there, I think that they are un. Like I don't think it's very likely they're going to be a playoff team next year. And so what are the ramifications of that? He's sort of joining at a, at a, you know, a spot in the stream where things are not good. And I, I think they're hoping that, you know, he's able to maybe absorb some of that, that heat maybe directed in a more positive manner for the organization. And you know, he hasn't worked in the NHL in at least an official capacity since he retired and that was all the way back in 2009. So, you know, he's, he's not experienced as you know. Someone making these decisions. Again, I like the idea of having him involved in the front office, but I think we have to be realistic about what his immediate impact can be, you know, what he can bring to the table. How well does he even know players around the league? Like, I think these are all fair questions. I think he's a smart enough guy to figure it out and become useful over time, but, you know, this isn't the kind of job where either he or Cheik are able to just sort of ease their way in. They're being thrown into the fire directly.
- [24:06]
Mark Lazarus
It seems to me like they're trying to recreate the Brendan Shanahan, Kyle Dubas dynamic, where you have like the veteran hockey guy and the young analytics mind. So for those of us who weren't like, intimately involved with how the Leafs were run day to day, how was the delineation of power in that with that duo? It seems right now that all reporting is that Cheik is going to be the top guy here. He's the, you know, for lack of a better word, the president of hockey operations. So how did that dynamic work with Shanahan and how do you expect it to work here?
- [24:33]
Chris Johnston
Yeah, that's the key delineation, I would say, lads, you know, with the Shanahan Duvas pairing, Shanahan was unquestionably at the top of the hockey operations pyramid. He primarily or exclusively dealt with ownership and the board. You know, Kyle ran the day to day you know, decision making with the team, but any major decisions obviously had to be approved by Shanahan as well. And so, you know, I think that that was ultimately what led to their breakup in 2023, is, you know, at that point, Dubas wanted more power. He wanted more autonomy in decision making and, and he didn't have it. Ultimately, he gets fired in a bit of a power play and lands at Pittsburgh with the dual role of president and ultimately general manager. So he has that kind of power in Pittsburgh and that's what led to the divorce. You know, what's happening here is Sundin is, is going to work in the hockey ops department. The idea is that I think he's going to service a number of, you know, tent poles within that, you know, from player development to culture setting and assisting with decisions. But he's, he's not. The buck doesn't stop with him. It's John Chayka that's reporting upwards to senior management. And so it's, it is a different setup. But you're right from. If you're, if you're going to, in generality, sketch out. It's kind of a recreation of that, but I don't think it's nearly the same thing. I mean, at the time when Kyle Dubas came along, he was sort of a whiz kid. You know, he'd spent a number of years inside the organization and climbed his way up to the spot of gm. You know, Shanahan worked in the head office of the NHL for years before coming to Toronto. Had a lot of, I think, valuable business experience in addition to his playing career. You know, the Leafs don't have that in this, in this go round. I mean, both these guys have been out of the league a long time, relatively speaking, because so much changes year to year in the NHL. Players turnover, prospects coming in, all that stuff. And so, you know, this is, it'll be interesting, I think, to see who they bring in beyond these two. These are the only two hires right now, but clearly they have a front office structure to fill out still, because I think they're going to need more experience in that, in that room.
- [26:23]
Max Bolman
C.J. you talked about the surprise around the league to the hire. I'm curious, like, what is John Cejka's reputation among other, like, hockey ops executives? Because at the end there were some kind of high profile foibles. There's obviously the prospect testing one, if I'm not mistaken. I think he, he was in talks or interviewing for, for another with another organization toward the end there. Like, what is the fallout of that, you know, six, seven years later here now? And should the Maple Leafs care about his reputation with other hockey ops execs?
- [26:51]
Chris Johnston
I think they should care because, you know, ultimately has to do business. You know, the NHL to me is a small town. And so part of living in a small town, sometimes I grew up in one is, you know, you got to be able to do business with your neighbor even when things are uncomfortable. Right. Even though obviously each team is competing in this league, the GMs have to make trades with each other. They have to try and suit each other's needs. I mean, I recognize it's not an easy line to crawl. And by no means am I suggesting every single person in the league likes every other single other person. But, you know, for John Chaco, I do think there's some trust to be rebuilt there. There's certainly trust to be rebuilt with the NHL's front office. I know there's definitely some, some bad feelings left over from the fact not only that he ended up talking to the New Jersey Devils while under contract to the Arizona Coyotes, which led to him being suspended for conduct on becoming to the league. But secondarily, you know, he was involved in prospect testing that was outside of the bounds of what's clearly allowed in the cba. And, you know, I don't think the NHL felt very kindly about the way that whole thing went down. And so, you know, ultimately he's going to have to, I think, prove himself anew, rebuild some, some trust within some key spots of the league. And you know, again, he's, he's under pretty strict timelines here. Like he has to start making moves in the next two months. This, this cannot be an off season where the Leafs sort of just stand pat and, you know, sign a fourth line right winger and call it a day. You know, I think that they have a lot of work to be done on their roster and the only way to get that work done is to, to basically deal with everybody else. And right now I don't know what the appetite is out there to deal with them. We're just going to have to see.
- [28:22]
Mark Lazarus
It's really just an incredible hire, isn't it? I mean, this is such an urgent time for the Maple Leafs. We're entering this new phase where free agency is basically dead and things are going to have to be done through trades. These dire situations, Matthew's situation, and they just throw a guy with so little experience, he's been in the private sector for years now. It's just an incredibly ballsy, perhaps insane move by the, by the Maple Leafs. It's such a fascinating development.
- [28:48]
Chris Johnston
Yeah. I have to imagine it might be crazy enough that it works. It must be sort of some of the rationale in Keith Pelley's mind. I mean, look, I some level I can applaud the fact they didn't just go find the biggest name who already has certain accolades that might, you know, on a day like this where you're introducing that candidate, no one's going to ask questions, but maybe doesn't still have the fire or maybe, you know, the game has passed them by in some ways. Like, I do appreciate that they're trying to find the next great GM versus, you know, getting someone who's past his prime and just going to cash a few checks before retirement. But, you know, it is a, it's a pretty insane gambit. It really is. I mean, it's basically a month ago that this, this started out. The lease fired Bradshaw living at the end of March. He's probably at a press conference the next day and sort of sketched out, you know, wanting this data centric person, wanting to have more synergy or continuity through the front office, the way everybody works together. But if you had told me then that John Chaiko was going to be the guy that they hired, I never would have believed it. Just because his name really has been outside of hockey circles during this time where he's been away from the NHL. Haven't heard him rumored for other jobs. You know, it doesn't seem as though, you know, he was truly in the mix. And yet, you know, he's got ties to Tai Domi, who's still got an influence, clearly here in Toronto, you know, as does Matt Sundin, their best friends. By no means am I suggesting Tai Domi made the hire, but I don't think it hurt that, that he has a pass with. With both Jacob and Sundin and has the ear of Leafs ownership. And so, you know, it's. I mean, sometimes truth is stranger than fiction. Is kind of where I'm landing on this. Like, I just would not have guessed that this is where they'd end up. And, you know, I do want to, you know, I've been a little critical here. I want to allow them the chance to make moves before, you know, I'm being too critical because ultimately, it doesn't really matter what I think or what the reputation is. It matters what they do with the roster. But I just think that they're being thrown into a really tough spot and, you know, there's not a lot of time to figure it out. That's. That's the key. To me, if it's a year from now and we're talking about the Leafs just starting a full rebuild, I mean, I'd argue they should probably be looking at that right now, but that's just not the way they're focused.
- [30:52]
Max Bolman
Yeah. Before we let you go, C.J. i did want to get your thoughts on some of the comments out of Edmonton and their locker clean out. You know, I think that these were honest comments from Connor McDavid and Leon Dry Seidel, you know, McDavid saying they've taken a step back, Dry Saddle saying, you know, not trending in the right direction. I think we would all agree with that. But what do you. What did you make of that? Hearing them say that publicly? Did that read as a challenge to the organization? Are they just shooting it straight?
- [31:17]
Chris Johnston
They're definitely shooting it straight. And I have to say, one of the things I appreciate most about the Oilers and their top players is that those guys make no excuses and you know, they also discussed some of the injury challenges they were dealing with, but there was never an excuse put forward there about why this year was off. They just talked about it like it is. And I think everyone in Edmonton knows that next year is the only really guaranteed year that they're going to have both of these guys back. I know McDavid does have two more years under contract, but the way it sets up is, you know, at this time next season, there's got to be a decision made. He's either signing an extension or the organization is looking to trade him, because I just don't see them walking him into a year where, you know, he could be a free agent. I don't think that would be very comfortable for anyone. And, you know, it's been a long time now, too, and frankly, they are headed in the wrong direction. That's, you know, part of what both Leon draisaitl and Connor McDavid said is that, you know, they look at 2024 when they get to game seven of the cup final, lose two one. They only got to six games into the final against Florida in 2025. They're out after just two wins in the first round in 2026. And, you know, there's, I think, reason for real concern as their core gets a little bit older with each successive year. They don't have a lot coming in their own pipeline that, that basically that, you know, the time might be up on them. And so if you're Stan Bowman or Jeff Jackson who run that Oilers team, the only thing you have guaranteed is that next season, you know, these guys are going to be members of your team, two of the best players in the world, and I think you have to react accordingly. So I would say nothing should be off the table in Edmonton this summer in terms of anything that can improve the team because, you know, it was a disappointing year from, from top to bottom for the Oilers.
- [32:52]
Mark Lazarus
It sure felt like a direct challenge to me. I mean, the way McDavid phrased it, he says we've all got to be better. And then he paused and then said, you know, starting with me, he was great this year. He's possibly the MVP this year. It doesn't start with him. It starts with Stan Bowman and, you know, Tristan Jari and Trent Frederick were his answers last time. And I think that's pretty clear. That dry side of the McDavid are saying that wasn't good enough. You have to be a little more dramatic here, a little more drastic. And the clock is ticking. I don't think there's any GM under more pressure now in the NHL than Stan Bowman, and that includes John Shaka.
- [33:23]
Chris Johnston
Yeah, and it's a lot of the same dynamics. The difference is Edmonton's, you know, they got a better team, Edmonton's closer. At least, you know, they've made the playoffs. They have McDavid, six time scoring champion, you know, was the leading point getter again this season. But you know, they face the same challenges when you're trading first round picks. Every trade deadline, eventually, you know, there's a cost to that. Right. And you know, we're seeing a lot of the younger teams in the league jump up. You know, Montreal moving on to round two, the latest example, you know, we're seeing turnover in the league and some of those organizations are trying to hang on and still be competitive. And it's, it's a tough thing to do. I think as long as you have McDavid and Draisaitlist and look, you got Anaheim and the Pacific Division on the rise, but I think the Pacific Division is still pretty cozy place to be. I mean, I'm not going to say the Oilers can't do it, but it's, it's got to happen right now. And you're right. Huge summer, Laz. You know, this is actually, you know, Connor McDavid signed his extension, gave them essentially that massive discount by not having a raise. You know, this is where they get the benefit of that. It kicks in starting next season. There's already the cap jumping up, so there's, there's room to maneuver there. But weak free agent class. I mean, it's probably going to have to come through trade if they make a sizable addition to that roster.
- [34:32]
Max Bolman
Yeah. Story of the NHL this off season as well. On that note. All right, great stuff from Chris Johnson. We got to let him get to this press conference. Thanks so much for joining us, cj. We'll take a quick break.
- [34:45]
Jesse Granger
Hey, it's Paige from Giggly Squad. We need to talk about Abercrombie's new summer drop.
- [34:50]
Max Bolman
Especially the swim.
- [34:51]
Jesse Granger
Just seeing the new coastal inspired prints and patterns is making me want to book a last minute trip to the beach. And Abercrombie made packing for vacation even easier with the launch of Reversible Swim. Perfect for mixing, matching and customizing your look. Prep for summer with Abercrombie in app, online and in stores. Hey honey, it's mom. Did you know if we switch to Verizon, we can get 4 phones for $0 plus 4 lines for 25 a line?
- [35:18]
Mark Lazarus
Call me back.
- [35:20]
Jesse Granger
Me again.
- [35:20]
Mark Lazarus
That's just a hundred dollars a month
- [35:22]
Jesse Granger
for four lines on unlimited welcome.
- [35:23]
Mark Lazarus
Plus four phones. No trade in needed.
- [35:26]
Jesse Granger
Call me.
- [35:27]
Mark Lazarus
It's mom.
- [35:28]
Jesse Granger
America's best network. Verizon.
- [35:29]
Mark Lazarus
That's the one we're talking about.
- [35:31]
Jesse Granger
I'll send you text. America's best network based on RootMetric's best
- [35:34]
Chris Johnston
overall mobile network performance.
- [35:35]
Jesse Granger
US second half 2025.
- [35:37]
Mark Lazarus
Four new lines and unlimited welcome and autopay. See verizon.com for details. Okay, I have to tell you, I was just looking on ebay, where I go for all kinds of things I love.
- [35:46]
Max Bolman
And there it was, that hologram trading card. One of the rarest. The last one I needed for my set.
- [35:52]
Mark Lazarus
Shiny like the designer handbag of my dreams.
- [35:54]
Chris Johnston
One of a kind. Ebay had it. And now everyone's asking, ooh, where'd you get your windshield wipers? Ebay has all the parts that fit my car. No more annoying, just beautiful.
- [36:06]
Mark Lazarus
Millions of finds, each with a story.
- [36:09]
Chris Johnston
EBay, things people love.
- [36:15]
Max Bolman
All right, we are back. And Jesse, at the end of segment one, you. You kind of got us into Colorado. Minnesota. This could not have been a more different viewing experience than what we saw from Montreal. Tampa, this tight 21 game where Montreal finds a way with only nine shots. This was the opposite of that. Colorado jumps out to an early 30 lead on the Wild. Minnesota fights back. They lead it 5 4, and they lose it. 9 6. 14 different goal scorers in this game. If you didn't score, if you played in this game and you didn't score, did you even play? Is basically what it would have felt like watching. Holy smokes. How do you sum that up, Jesse?
- [36:52]
Jesse Granger
Yeah, for Colorado sports fans, this is what they've been used to seeing. I'm a Denver Broncos fan. 96 is pretty much the regular scoreline for us. And so. So they're very comfortable with 96 games. It's just usually not that team in town. What an insane game. The goaltenders obviously didn't have their best night. It just looked like the game was too fast for them. And it's hard to blame them because the game was insanely fast. Like Quinn Hughes versus Kale Makar. And the way they're quarterbacking everything at the. At the point and the way they're challenging guys like they were not passing the puck around, they were going around guys attacking into the high slot. It just gets the defense scrambling. And such a fast game by both teams. That is going to be an elite series. I don't think most of the games will look like that but they, but score wise, but speed wise like I think we're in for a treat. The, these two teams are so good.
- [37:45]
Mark Lazarus
Yeah, these are not your big brothers. Minnesota Wild, the most boring team in the world. This is high octane star power team. I have deep concerns about the Wild. The Joel Eric's neck injury is massive. They were already so weak down the middle and you take away their best two way center against a team like Colorado. He's going to miss game two. They need him back by game three. Or, or this might get out of hand but I almost think and this is going to sound weird when you lose to nine to six. I think that was almost like a, an encouraging game if you're the Minnesota Wild that you know you can, you can go toe to toe with this team and you can score at the same pace they can score. Obviously you do not want every game to look like that. But the Wild haven't, you know, they, we know they've got it in them that they've got the players to do that but the fact that they fell down 30 early and just stormed right back and took the lead, I think even though they lost that game, that's not a discouraging game for me. I'm not worried about Jesper Walshead. He was phenomenal in the first round against Dallas. He's the biggest reason they won. He's going to get right back in there in game two and you know, if he settles down then everything will be fine. But I think that's, there's a lot to take away from that game. That's encouraging if you're the Wild knowing you know what, that team can score a lot of goals but hey, so can we and if that's the way they want to play, we can play that way.
- [38:53]
Max Bolman
But you said it with Eric Sinek. I mean that was my thought the whole game last night is this game looks totally different if Eric Sinek is
- [38:59]
Mark Lazarus
in and he's probably 8 to 6 with him.
- [39:02]
Max Bolman
No, I think it's probably like, I mean it's probably like five to four or six to five. I mean I think he's that big of a factor of the game and, and you take that piece out of their lineup. He's their best center. He's such a two way presence. I think he gives their own lineups like just so many elements around the net and man, that was to, to be without him for game one hurt now you know you're without him again for game two. It you could be down two zero in a hurry here.
- [39:25]
Mark Lazarus
Jonas Brodine too. So I mean, obviously that's two of their better defenders that are out.
- [39:30]
Jesse Granger
Yeah, and color it makes it even worse because Colorado centers are just so disgustingly good. Like obviously McKinnon and Nelson, but like adding Nick Wat, the deadline has fantastic addition. They're up the middle there, as good as it gets. And then Minnesota, that's like their biggest weakness. And now it's even more of a weakness. On Mark's point about Wallstead, I'll give John Hines credit because we've talked about it a couple times this playoffs on this show about how like coaches have to manage the two goalie setup. And Wallstead was one of the biggest reasons they won in the round one, I think when it was three nothing early. That's an easy spot for a coach to pull a goalie. And then you put Philip Gustafson in there, who was the starter. All say he plays a little bit better, but you still lose. Well, now everybody's wondering who's the guy going in? And it's like it can change the entire dynamic. I thought that even though he gets lit up for eight goals, he'll shake that off. He, he, he knowing his mentality, I don't think that's going to mess with him at all. I think that Hines did a good job of not allowing this to become a discussion by just letting Jesper play that out. And, and I agree. I think he's going to bounce back. He was not good in that game. He was not his. I always praise him for his patience. To me, that's his biggest trait. He looked like he was guessing a lot and that's just, this feels too fast for me. I'm trying to guess what's happening. He guessed wrong a few times and looks bad. But I thought Hines handled it well. And I think going forward, big picture, even though he gives up eight goals, that was the right move to keep him in there.
- [40:55]
Mark Lazarus
I agree. You gotta, you gotta stand by your guy and say, this is still your net. One loss isn't going to change that. And Philip Gustafson, let's not forget, was atrocious down the stretch, like he lost the net. Walsa didn't even take the net. Gustafson lost it and he, I didn't love his attitude, you know, covering that Dallas Minnesota series. At one point, Mike Russo walks up to him. I was, I was right next to him after a practice and says, hey, Gus, you got a second? And Gusison looks at him, goes, go Talk to the players that are playing. That's not the attitude of a guy who's feeling great right now. You know, you're supposed to say, hey, I just want to. I just. I want to support my guy. I'm real happy for Jesper. He's playing great. You know, as long as we're winning, you know, it's about the team. He said, go talk to the guys who are playing. That's a guy who's sulking right now, and I don't think he's the guy you want to throw in, given how badly he was playing and how lousy his attitude seems to me, that's not a guy you want to throw in against the Avalanche right now.
- [41:43]
Max Bolman
We talked about the Wild being without Ericsson act. The Colorado Avalanche, for a while there, looked like they might be without Cale McCarr. He comes back to the game, scores two huge goals for the Avalanche. It was as a scare for. For Colorado to have been without Makar for a little bit there. But, no, nothing you could have seen would have been more reassuring than him coming back in and playing like that.
- [42:02]
Mark Lazarus
What I love, I love that these guys, like. It is very clear that Cale Makar knows he's going up against Quinn Hughes, and Quinn Hughes knows he's going up as Caleb Carr, and they want to be the best guy. This happened at a much, much different level earlier in the year here in Chicago when. When the Islanders came to town. I talked to Artem Levchinov, who had his best game of the year by far against the Islanders the next day. I asked him how much of that was Matthew Schaefer's here, and you're getting. You're almost jealous of the attention he's getting. You want to show that you're that guy, too. He goes, oh, absolutely. Like, he didn't even hesitate to say it. Like, these guys absolutely know they're the two best defensemen in the world, and they want to be the best defenseman in the world. They know that this is a series where they can really earn that title, and they care.
- [42:41]
Jesse Granger
It is electric the way, like, the puck goes to one end, and because they're defenseman, the puck's on their stick the whole time. Like, it. It is awesome to watch the second goal. Cale McCarr scored the way he's. You can. Like, they showed the angle from behind him, and you can see him waiting for the lane to open. He, like, fakes the shot to create the lane, and then he's just waiting, waiting, waiting, and then finds that Far side corner, Wall State. Couldn't see it through the traffic. Those two are unbelievable. It. It really does feel like a one. It's almost like, like you get that in basketball kind of where it's like one star versus the other. It feels as much like that as you can get in hockey.
- [43:16]
Max Bolman
All right, so this one was 15 goals. I'll set the over under for the next two games combined at 14 and a half. What are you taking?
- [43:23]
Mark Lazarus
Combined.
- [43:24]
Max Bolman
Combined.
- [43:25]
Mark Lazarus
So you're talking like a pair of three. Two wins is what you're. It would be the under right now.
- [43:29]
Max Bolman
No, because it's 14 and a half. That's only 10.
- [43:31]
Mark Lazarus
Yeah. Jesus.
- [43:32]
Jesse Granger
So I'll go three still.
- [43:34]
Max Bolman
Yeah.
- [43:34]
Jesse Granger
I think it's going to be a high scoring series. I don't think it's going to be like this game, but I do think we're going to see some high score.
- [43:39]
Mark Lazarus
I'm gonna go because I. I think you're gonna see these guys adjust dramatically because, look, we love this. Coaches don't love this. This is not the kind of hockey they want to play. Jared Bender doesn't want to play like this and John Hines does not want to play like this. I think we're going to see a rather dramatic reversal in the styles of play in games two and three. So I'll take the under.
- [43:58]
Max Bolman
All right. Okay. So that's game one of that series. The other game one that we got this weekend was Saturday night. That was Carolina, Philly. And I think predictably, Carolina. Carolina rolled here. And so this is kind of the interesting thing about the weekend, lads. And this is maybe true to an extent with the Wild, certainly true with the Canadians, certainly TR with the Sabers. We get some of the new blood out of the first round. It's really exciting. It's fun to see these new teams that haven't been in the playoffs or haven't advanced in the playoffs start to take their strides. But, man, after the first weekend of round two, you can definitely see a world where we're just headed for Colorado, Carolina anyway.
- [44:32]
Mark Lazarus
Yeah, it's pretty funny. And everybody wants to see the new blood. We talk about that all year. Like, oh, just want to see some new teams. We're sick of the Panthers and the Lightning and the. The Avalanche and the Golden Knights. And then you get those matchups like, oh, I don't want to watch this. Where are the big teams? I want to watch the big teams. Where are the superstars? Right? I mean, Colorado Carolina would be an amazing series. Like, it would be. It's Two of the. It's the two best teams in the league according to standings, the two top seeds. It'd be great. I don't know if anybody would watch it in America because, you know, we're, we're. We're simple like that in this country, apparently. But it would be a great series. But yeah, I want to see Buffalo in there. I want to see Anaheim like I want to see Minnesota. I, I love watching Colorado play, but it's more interesting to me to see something different like an Anaheim Buffalo series. Are you kidding me? Just right into my veins, man. Give me that.
- [45:20]
Jesse Granger
I think they'd both be. I guess I'm, I'm not the demographic that they need to, to pull in to get Carolina, Colorado.
- [45:27]
Mark Lazarus
Yeah, I'm pretty sure we're watching regardless.
- [45:29]
Jesse Granger
Yeah, right. But yeah, I mean, Carolina, they, they look, they've looked great at times throughout the postseason for years now. But I don't know if they've ever looked this good with Logan Stankhoven scoring the way he is. That's always the issue for this team is the scoring. Where are we going to get it in the playoffs? Where are we going to get the tips? Because we're not getting the tic tac toe goals that you get in the regular season. Things tighten up in the playoffs. You've got to score those greasy goals. Where are the Hurricanes going to get that? And so far the answer has been Logan stakeover and he's been awesome. They still have the insane shot suppression that they've always had. Like Philadelphia feels like. Like I don't like Freddie Anderson. That's his second shutout of the playoffs. I don't think there's an NHL caliber goalie who wouldn't have had a shutout that night. Because it feels. I don't. Like, it's helpless. Like, it doesn't feel like the Flyers will ever score a goal. Like it feels like they could play for a week and they won't score. Now they'll make some adjustments. The game will probably look a little bit different in game two, but the way that game was going, it felt like there was no way they were going to score a goal.
- [46:33]
Mark Lazarus
You know who won't make any adjustments? Rod Brindemore. Because Rod Brindmore doesn't do adjustments. He will do what Rod Brindemore does and that will annihilate this Flyers team. The question is, what will it do against Buffalo or Montreal or Colorado or Minnesota or Anaheim or Vegas? That's where I really want to see what Happens because this Flyers team is completely overmatched. They have zero chance to win the series. Absolutely zero chance to win the series. And Carolina is going to have possibly only eight games played by the time they get to the conference final. They will be rested and healthy. And this is the best chance they've ever had to go and win a Stanley cup that we've, that we've. They've been on the cusp of for years. But can they do it in the conference final against a good team? Can they do it in the Stanley cup final against a great team? That's what I'm still unsure about.
- [47:17]
Max Bolman
Jesse, you mentioned Stankeven and he's been outstanding. In fact, with Brandon Hagel out now for the Lightning, Stankeven is probably the leader in the clubhouse for best player in the playoff or, you know, eventually if Carolina gets there, the Con Smythe. It's interesting, Laz, because we're talking about Colorado being a wagon. We're talking about Carolina being a wagon. These are the two teams that traded away Mo Rantin and a year later. I mean, Dallas had a phenomenal run last year to the conference final. Miko Ranan was excellent starting about midway through that series against Colorado and, and he was very good. And Mika Ran had a very good year. He still put up his points in the playoffs. But we're looking at it a year later. And the two teams that traded him away look like they're the ones that could be on a collision course.
- [48:01]
Mark Lazarus
It's funny how that works, right? I mean, when, when the Dallas Stars got eliminated and, and I wrote a column like the day before they got eliminated that Mikko was not holding up his end of the bargain. He wasn't playing well enough. He was just kind of like getting secondary assists on power play goals and was a complete non factor at 5 on 5. All the avalanche fans started coming on being like, yeah, we know we've seen this before. Unless he's playing us because he hates us for trading him away in the first place, he's invisible in the playoffs. All of a sudden, like Dallas fans who got, who got clearly the best player. Like there's no question that Miko Ranton was the best player out of all these trades. They got him and they signed him long term. So Dallas is relatively happy. Marty Nachos was 100 point guy this year. So Colorado is perfectly happy. They replaced 100 point guy with 100 point guy who's a little younger. And Stankovin men, has there ever been a better fit, a better team that fit a player better than Logan Stanko. And there are, there are Carolina guys and there are non Carolina guys. Miko Rantin, not a Carolina guy. Logan Stankovin is like the ultimate Carolina guy. So everyone, I think everyone's pretty happy with this trade right now. But it is interesting that Dallas fans have the most consternation a year later.
- [49:09]
Jesse Granger
Yeah, and you nailed it in terms of just the styles. Like, it just feels like Chris McFarlane in Colorado. Martin Naches is perfect for the way the avs play hockey. Like they. He was good in Carolina. He did not look like he does in Colorado because he wasn't in that fast environment playing with that style of hockey. And then you, like you already said Stankhoven is a Carolina guy. I thought both GMs just completely.
- [49:33]
Mark Lazarus
You're.
- [49:34]
Jesse Granger
You're not going to trade for a player better than Ranton and so find someone who fits your team better. And they both nailed it.
- [49:41]
Max Bolman
I still think Colorado should have found a way to get this done with Ranton. And I don't think Colorado needed change there. It's funny because right now the player that I think Dallas could really use is Nature's because they look pretty slow in that first round series against Minnesota. Nature has the wheels, but I'm fully with you, Jesse. I did not see this coming out of nature's. Even knowing what kind of environment he was going into with Colorado, it is probably the perfect environment for him. But this, he was not close to this player, at least in terms of the offensive output, potency, consistency that he was, that he has been in Colorado. It's been really amazing to watch. All right, let's shift gears now to the series coming up. Jesse, game one tonight, Vegas and Anaheim, you'll be there. What are you expecting in this? I mean, Vegas finds a way at the end of that series to really look like kind of big brother at the end of that. And Anaheim could be a pretty similar, similarly built team to Utah. You expect somewhat similar styles of play, but they're also maybe a little higher end at a couple of those spots.
- [50:41]
Jesse Granger
Yeah, exactly that. I've been talking to Vegas players the last couple of days and that's the kind of. The thing you keep hearing is Anaheim is almost exactly the same team as Utah. They're just a little better everywhere. It's a. It's a team that was built through the draft with young players. They are fast, they want to score in transition. They pass the puck horizontally across the ice more than any team in the league. Utah, I think, was number Two. I think Anaheim's right up there with them. They might just have a little more skill, like. Like Utah early in the series. Logan Cooley and Dylan Gunther, the young kids, they had really big games in the first two games, and it was like, oh, is this their arrival in the Stanley cup playoffs? And Vegas pretty much shut them down for the rest of the way after that. Now, it's a similar kind of story for Leo Carlson, Cutter Gautier, Bennett Senike. I think they're obviously a different tier than Cooley and Gunther were. It's going to be tougher for Vegas, but it is a very similar challenge in that. Can we clog up the neutral zone, slow those guys down, make them go 200ft to try to score through all five of our defensemen? Utah ultimately wasn't able to do that. Will Anaheim be able to. It's going to be fascinating. I think it's. It's, like I said, really similar matchup. I didn't. I wasn't all that impressed with the Golden Knights in the first round. They struggled through that Utah series. They haven't looked as good as they can now. Mitch Marner came alive at the end of this. At the end of the series, Jack Eichel started to look a little bit more like himself. So they are showing signs that they're getting there, but they're going to have to be better against Anaheim than they were against Utah to get through this.
- [52:18]
Mark Lazarus
I like Anaheim in this year. I just. Their offensive depth is incredible. I mean, you talk about. Again, we were talking about third lines earlier with Buffalo. Buffalo. I think Cutter Gaultier and Mason McTavish are on that third line. That is scary. And Vegas's biggest weakness is goaltending. I do not trust Vegas's goaltending at all. And Vegas was bad, like, legitimately bad for significant stretches of this regular season. I know that they've kind of stabilized. I can't believe I'm saying this, but you got to give John Tortorella credit. He's done good work and kind of stabilizing things over there. But the wave after wave of talent that Anaheim has, like. Like you said, like Utah, but better. I just. I think Anaheim is. Is really coming into its own. And, you know, one thing Joel Quentinville is really, really good at is adjusting in playoff series. He's like. I think it was 18 and one in games five, six, and seven with the Blackhawks. These Ducks are not those Blackhawks, certainly not yet. But this is a coaching matchup that heavily, heavily favors the Anaheim Ducks. And I think they're going to come out of this one.
- [53:14]
Max Bolman
On paper, goaltending should heavily, heavily favor the Ducks too. Dostal did not have an overwhelmingly convincing first round though.
- [53:22]
Jesse Granger
Jesse yeah, and it's like I was saying during that series you almost have to grade him and, and the Oilers goalies on like a Grant Fear scale of like just make the save we need you to make. Like Grant Fear stats are terrible, but he won a bunch of Stanley Cups because he made the save he needed to make. He might not have made the three before that, but the big one before the big one you need to make. And Dostahl did that like he he stuffed Connor McDavid with the the toe save in game six. Huge saves. This is going to be a very different series for him. It's going to feel like it's in slow motion. Compared to that Edmonton Oilers attack, the Golden Knights are a more methodical, cycle the puck around type of team. Do Stall has a ton of success against Vegas. Obviously I cover all those games so I am used to seeing him and he always seems to have his best stuff against the Golden Knights. I think he's got a.9 17 save percentage in his career. In five games against him this year he went 20 against Vegas. The Ducks won all three meetings this year between these two. Now two of them were in overtime and the other one was a 43 win. So they were all really, really close. But the Ducks did get the better of the Golden Knights and like Mark said, Carter Hart, it was a rough series and I, I was very surprised. We didn't see Aiden Hill at any point. Part of that is John Tortorella trusts Carter Hart from his Philly days and he's just kind of, he's going to ride him until there is like it's, it's he's going down with that ship if Carter Hart doesn't improve. He was giving up goals like Carter Hart did have moments where he made big saves, kind of like Doe Stahl. But he also there were so many shots that were wrist shots that were he saw cleanly, that were from outside the dots that most NHL goalies are going to make those saves and they were beating him glove side and blocker side. I have to imagine the Ducks shooters, the snipers, they've got have seen that film and are salivating at that. It's going to be if Vegas is going to win this series, they're going to need Hart to maybe not outplay Doe Stahl, but at least match him and make it close because if Doe stalls significantly, outplaying him, the Golden Knights are not going to overwhelmingly win the possession battle enough to overcome that.
- [55:18]
Mark Lazarus
Jesse, I love how ride or die you are for Lucas Dostal. That guy could have, like, a.400 save percentage, and you would be sitting here saying, that guy's awesome. He's the best. I love him.
- [55:28]
Chris Johnston
He.
- [55:29]
Jesse Granger
It's. It's. You always hear players and coaches say, like, process over results. And, like, when I watch Luca, it's part. That's part of it. It's like, he does everything so right. Like, I. He could give up eight. And I'm like, yeah, but I don't think any of them were his fault because he did everything he was supposed
- [55:44]
Mark Lazarus
to do, and he does give up eight sometimes. That.
- [55:46]
Jesse Granger
That.
- [55:46]
Mark Lazarus
That team is a high event.
- [55:49]
Max Bolman
I will say, like, it kind of feels like everything's gravy from here for Anaheim, like they've won a round. I think that that that's a successful season for them. Anything that happens on here is just a bonus. It does feel like if. If they win this series and if Leo Carlson is really good in this series, having taken out the Oilers with McDavid and the Golden Knights with Eichel, this could be kind of Leo Carlson's opportunity to put himself in that very upper tier of NHL centers for the broader public, I think.
- [56:15]
Mark Lazarus
And Jackson lacombe, too, on the back end, he's been having the same kind of run.
- [56:19]
Jesse Granger
I think it's very, like. I think there's a lot of, like, nerves from the Vegas fan base and, like, excitement for this series because it does feel like the Ducks are trying to prove that, like, there's a turnover in the Pacific Division. And beating Edmonton in Vegas would. And with their age, would signal that maybe there's a different chapter of this division than we've seen for the last nine years. So for that reason alone, I feel like this Vegas team, they're going to want to impose their will and, like, prove that we're not quite there yet.
- [56:45]
Max Bolman
Yeah. And then they have the capability to do it. I mean, it will be. To continue the theme of this segment, it will be very funny if, at the end of all this, three of the Final Four teams standing are Colorado, Carolina, Carolina and Vegas. Three of the four teams we all would have picked to be in that Final Four at the beginning of the year. But that story is yet to be written. Really fun. Round two on tap. And we will be with you for all of it. In the meantime, I'll be back with Corey Proman and Scott Wheeler, as well as Flo Hockey's Chris Peters. Tomorrow night, Tuesday for the NHL Draft lottery, we're going to be reacting live to it on YouTube. You can join us there@YouTube.com the Athletic Hockey Show Sean Sean and Frankie will have you covered for Wednesday, but that's going to do it for us today. We'll talk to you soon. AI is transforming customer service. It's real and it works. And with fin, we've built the number one AI agent for customer service. We're seeing lots of cases where it's solving up to 90% of real queries for real businesses. This includes the real world complex stuff like issuing a a refund or canceling an order. And we also see it when Fin goes up against competitors. It's top of all the performance benchmarks, top of the G2 leaderboard. And if you're not happy, we'll refund you up to a million dollars, which I think says it all. Check it out for yourself at FIN AI Marketers.
- [58:01]
Mark Lazarus
You know that feeling when your creative clicks, when that social post sends engagement
- [58:05]
Jesse Granger
through the roof, when your outside of
- [58:07]
Mark Lazarus
the box campaign hits ROI positive, when a personalized homepage turns prospects into customers. It's utter marketing bliss. Contentful helps you create tailored omnichannel experiences without working overtime. No stress, no limits, only possibilities. Get the feels@contentful.com if you work in
- [58:28]
Max Bolman
university maintenance, Grainger considers you an MVP because your playbook ensures your arena is
- [58:33]
Mark Lazarus
always ready for tip off.
- [58:35]
Max Bolman
And Grainger is your trusted partner, offering
- [58:38]
Mark Lazarus
the products you need all in one
- [58:39]
Max Bolman
place, from H Vac and plumbing supplies to lighting and more.
- [58:43]
Mark Lazarus
And all delivered with plenty of time left on the clock.
- [58:46]
Max Bolman
So your team always gets the win.
- [58:49]
Mark Lazarus
Call 1-800-GRAINGER visit grainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done.