← The Athletic Hockey Show
Loading summary
Transcript69 lines
- [00:00]
Kat
It's smart to always have a few financial goals and a really smart one. You can set earning cash back on what you buy every day. And with Discover, you can get this. Discover automatically matches all the cash back you've earned at the end of your first year. Seriously, all of it. And we trust you to make smart decisions. After all, you listen to this show. See terms@discover.com credit card hey, this is
- [00:24]
Max Boltman
Knox from the Popcast. The youth mental health crisis is growing and social media is a major driver. Kids are spending up to nine hours a day on screens, often unsuperv and studies show a direct link to anxiety, depression and even suicidal thoughts. That's where Gab comes in. Gab offers safer phones and watches for kids with no social media. Tailored to every age, offering the right tech at the right time or tech in steps. From GPS tracking enabled watches for younger kids to phones with parent enabled apps for teens. Each device allows kids to more safely grow their independence. Visit gab.com getgab and use code getgab for an exclusive offer. That's gab G-A-B-B.com forward slash gabb gab tech and steps independence for them. Peace of mind for parents. If you've used Babbel, you would. Babbel's conversation based technique teaches you useful words and phrases to get you speaking quickly about the things you actually talk
- [01:23]
Shayna Goldman
about in the real world.
- [01:24]
Max Boltman
With lessons handcrafted by over 200 language experts and voiced by real native speakers, Babbel is like having a private tutor in your pocket. Start speaking with Babbel today. Get up to 55% off your Babbel subscription right now at babbel.com acast spelled B A B B E L.com acast rules and restrictions may apply. This is the athletic hockey show. Hey everybody, Max Boltman here alongside Shayna Goldman for another episode of the Athletic Hockey Show. The Carolina Hurricanes. Shayna are the 2026 Stanley cup championship. There's so many places we can go for this and we're going to get to all of them. But I think we just got to start with what an incredible team the Carolina Hurricanes have. I think it's, it's kind of perfect that Jordan Stahl, the captain of this team and he had a great Stanley cup final, gets the con Smythe because he's not this massive point producing superstar. He's a grizzled veteran. He's a, if anything, more of a selkie guy than anything else. He does have an outstanding cup final with the Six goals in the first five games, well earned. But I think that speaks to the total team feel that the Carolina Hurricanes have all along.
- [02:59]
Shayna Goldman
Yeah, it feels like up until that very last moment we were going, okay, who could win the cons, Mic. And you could talk yourself into it so many different ways, right. Like heading into the series it felt like this is Taylor Hall's to lose. Okay, well, Logan Stankhoven starts scoring goals and now look at Jordan Stahl. And it's exactly that. The way that it's like the passing of the baton throughout the entire team, like this is such a complete effort down to the goaltending, which you literally never see happen. So really, really impressive by the Canes. Total, complete effort. And that's a good thing, right? Because sometimes we have it where you're nitpicking, who could win if you can go this many ways? It just shows the depth that they have which has been a part of their identity this entire time.
- [03:36]
Max Boltman
1 thought I was having, as you see them all pass the cup around to each other on the ice and there are some incredible players, right? Some first rate NHL players, all star level players. This Carolina Hurricane team and then this Carolina Hurricane victory I think gives a little bit of hope to any market that you know, isn't at the top of every team's no trade list that doesn't have, you know, J. Michael and Mitch Marner and these kind of superstar in every list, in every, you know, the face of everything players. And, and I that I don't mean that with the utmost respect for the Carolina Hurricanes is that it is a true team that you can win when you're built a little bit differently, when you do business a little bit differently. You know, the way they're staffed. Eric Tulski's really never gotten enough respect for, for what a great hockey mind he is. And I think it's a vindication of him and I think it's a vindication that it's not all about your headline star, it's about what you do as a unit.
- [04:25]
Shayna Goldman
Yeah, absolutely. Because listen, you can go be the number three or four or five in Vegas and you totally could. Right? They're going to keep interchanging that sporting test. That's what they do. And there's reason why players would want to go there. But also you look at making the choice of the Canes, it's totally different because it might give you a chance to be someone that's a little bit more important. Yes, you're a part of this entire team effort. But Also you're Nikolai Ehlers and you're getting your moment. I think that would look a little bit different if he was in, say, Dallas, right? Like he's a little lower on the depth chart. Maybe he doesn't get his chance to be the guy at points in this series. Maybe Taylor hall doesn't get to be. We've seen him, you know, years ago, he goes to Boston for a playoff run. He's a Middlesex guy. He's a contributor. He's not one of the driving forces that it, it gives you this opportunity to break out in a different way as well.
- [05:09]
Max Boltman
And he gets the, the clinching goal.
- [05:12]
Shayna Goldman
It's.
- [05:12]
Max Boltman
It's the empty netter, but to go to 3, 0. But that was the moment that you knew this is done and dusted. This is the Carolina Hurricanes to win and he's the guy who picked Carolina. So I do think that's very fitting. Loved the first place. Jordan Stahl goes with the Stanley cup in this. It's not hall who it very well could have been. It's not Jacob Slabin, who I think is as much of a standard bearer of the Carolina Hurricanes as anybody. It's to Freddy Anderson, the guy who did not finish this series as the starting goaltender. And if that doesn't tell you something about everything we're talking about here, the team, everybody mattering. When you talked about the, the Con Smythe early, you didn't say Freddie Anderson or Brandon Busy. You just said the goaltending. It takes everybody. It took everybody to get here. And I think for a guy who could have been maybe a little bit of an afterthought with all the feel good of Brandon Bussey and his story for Freddie Anderson to get the cup first, I thought that really speaks to everything they're about.
- [05:59]
Shayna Goldman
Yeah, absolutely. Because look, going into the playoffs, we had no idea who the Cane star was going to be rewrote that playoff preview and our like X factor was like, who in the world was going to tend the goal? We don't know because Brandon Vessey's play is tapered off. Frederick Anderson doesn't have a playoff reputation. All of that is true. But then it comes to pass and look, they made it three rounds. Did Anderson stand on his head like some of the other goalies? You know, by the numbers. He looks really good, but he was there for the big time saves that they needed through three rounds when they needed to put someone else in, someone who has not played since April. Bussy comes in and he was fantastic in the game that he, you know, joined for that third period and then into the overtimes, the next two games. Are they perfect? No, but you're seeing, you know, the vibe shift or the energy change. And look, they're playing looser defensively and he's handling it. He's handling the chaos so well. And then it comes to this game and he gets to have a standout moment. He does save three goals above expected. He makes the key saves at key times that they needed. It was a group effort to get there. And it'll be interesting to see, like, what teams take away from this, too. Like, what are they going to learn from it? Because you could look at it and say, look at what you can have. You can have players who, you know, set a new tone for themselves, like I think Anderson did in the Eastern Conference final. And how quickly you can forget that narrative. Right. But you could also learn from it too, of, you know, do you need elite goaltending? I know that. Conversations already coming up. And when you look at the Anderson and Bussey of it all, it's like, well, are you built like Carolina? Do you have that stout defense? Because I don't know if you're getting away with that. But, you know, maybe you do have to know at what's the right moment to switch your goalies around? Like, when's the right moment to stay with someone or maybe who's best in a series, Right. Anderson style of play, how does it complement certain, you know, the Canes against certain opponents and how does busy work in certain situations here? I just think it's all interesting and the fact that he got the cup second, I think it really just kind of brings it all home, of just how important he was to all of this, too. And it's so easy to forget because his series wasn't perfect here.
- [07:52]
Max Boltman
Yeah, no, totally. And a lot of things you just said, especially with how you manage that situation, comes to coaching and, you know, Rod Brindemore has gotten his flowers. If there is a superstar in this Carolina Hurricanes franchise, it's the guy behind the bench. It's Rod Bryn Moore. He's kind of the face of it all. And he's obviously fingerprints all over everything we're talking about here. The culture of Carolina. That to me is Rob Brindem.
- [08:12]
Shayna Goldman
Yeah, absolutely. And here's the thing with it, too. We look at the Canes and the types of players they've acquired over the years, and so many times you look at guys and you go, that's the perfect Rob Bryn Moore player in the Perfect Carolina Hurricane. And that's true for a while because he helped them build this system and identity. He is one of those consistent cornerstones. We talk about Slave and we talk about Ajo, and they obviously are huge parts of this, but it's Brindamore, the way he keeps the ship so steady. Even last year they just plug and play and it worked. But I think this year it's fascinating to see. Not just did they bring in those Rod Brindmore players. Nikolai Ers isn't that Taylor hall last year. Year was not that. Right. And they get embraced into the system. And now we're thinking bigger than just the forecheck, and we're thinking of the pressure that Rod Brindemore demands his players to play with and how you can do it in different ways while still maintaining that Rod Brindemore signature. I just think it forced us to think about it a little bit differently and show what a great coach he is, too, to understand what this team needed going into the playoffs. Right. Like making the lineup tweaks, saying, okay, the Jordan stall line, Stahl and Martin up. Those are pure four checkers. Okay, what if you put Ehlers there and now all of a sudden you have this deep approach and we see how much it elevated Jordan Stahl's game. Right. Like he did all of the things that make him click and that make him such a great player. But now let's go against the green and give it a totally different look as well. So you have a little bit more versatility and he knew the buttons to push to do it. And I think that's really commendable because you could say for how many years. It's like, does the system work? We've heard the conversation. Well, look at the skill he has and now look at how he figured out how to use them.
- [09:40]
Max Boltman
Yeah, I mean, you're right. You can't tell the story of this team without those past experiences coming up short. Right. Those past failures where you get to the conference final and it's not, you know, it's not close. Even if the games are close. It's. It's a sweep or it's. It's a lopsided series.
- [09:56]
Mint Mobile Advertiser
When people hear that Mint Mobile plans are only $15 a month, a lot of them wonder, what's the catch? Well, I can tell you from firsthand experience, there isn't one. There are no gimmicks, no gotchas, just unlimited talk, text and data, fast, reliable coverage on the nation's largest 5G network, and an award Winning care team. I guess that makes Mint Mobile a catch. Since switching to Mint, I've saved money on my wireless bill and my service has been better. Pretty hard to beat. Mint Mobile took what's wrong with wireless and made it right with Premium Wireless. For $15 a month, you can even bring your current phone and your number. Choose from 3, 6 or 12 month plans and say goodbye to a monthly bill. Ditch overpriced wireless. With Mint Mobile, it's so easy. You sign up online and get three months of premium wireless service for 15 bucks a month. To get your new wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month, go to mintmobile.com NHLShow that's mintmobile.com NHLShow Cut your wireless bill to 15 bucks a month at mintmobile.com NHL Show. That's it. There's no catch. $45 upfront payment required. Equivalent to $15 a month. New customers on first three month plan only speed slower above 40 gigabytes on unlimited plan. Additional taxes, fees and restrictions apply. See Mint Mobile for details.
- [11:19]
Kat
It's smart to always have a few financial goals and a really smart one. You can set earning cash back on what you buy every day. And with Discover you you can get this. Discover automatically matches all the cash back you've earned at the end of your first year. Seriously, all of it. And we trust you to make smart decisions. After all, you listen to this show. See terms@discover.com credit card.
- [11:43]
Shayna Goldman
Take this as your sign to go. Just get out there and go this summer at Best Western, get 1,000 bonus points and a chance to win 250,000 bonus points. Points. Life's a trip. Make the most of it@bestwestern.com no additional purchase necessary for sweeps. See bonus points, TNCs and sweeps rules for details.
- [12:08]
Max Boltman
When did you know that this Canes team was different? Watching this run, when did you start to feel like this is not going to be the same old story?
- [12:15]
Shayna Goldman
I think it was really in round two when you saw them. I think at the end of round one when you saw that they were leaning on their rush game a little bit more, it was like, okay, this is interesting here. Like their foretelch is getting broken up and they have different options. But I think in round two, like they finish that off and you're like wait a second, like I get it, it's the Flyers. But you go like now, now I'm really intrigued here because they feel different and all of a sudden now we're asking the different questions, right? Does the system work? Is it too Much wear and tear on players, the same conversations every year. And you're going, well, they got back to back sweeps. Can they adapt now against Montreal? And I think that was that kind of turning point moment. And also then it's. And Eric Tulski brought this up when we spoke to him on the Athletic show a few weeks ago, you know, a few months ago, whatever the playoffs, flat circle, you know, in between rounds, we were asking him about, like the cane system, and he's saying too, like, it is less wear and tear if you don't always have to go get the puck yourself and pressure to get it back and you can play a different style. And I think that was kind of that, like, it kind of made it click a little bit more of like, wait a second, this team really is different. Like, we're seeing them use their rush game against four checking teams. Now how will they look against totally different opponent in Montreal? And I think that's when you could start seeing like, this team has more layers than we've seen in the past.
- [13:26]
Max Boltman
It's funny, I picked against them in round one. Like, I thought the Senators all year were a team that was some good goaltending away from being a terror. And as the year went on, they started to find some good goaltending. They got good goaltending in that series from Linus Hallmark. And it just didn't matter because of this machine like Hurricane's team. And over the course of the playoffs, you know, it wasn't like I was fading Carolina, that I was bullish on Ottawa and seeing, you know, I'm not saying they dispatched them easily. I think those were all pretty good games in the series. But Carolina never really had to sweat it too hard like they were. They were always in control. And when it got to that Montreal series, that to me was like, okay, this Montreal team can be really explosive. And, you know, for what you said, right. It's always the question of, is it going to work? Is the system going to kind of hold up deep into the playoffs? It worked against a really fast, really talented Montreal team. And pretty much from that moment on it, I mean, granted, I guess I'm talking about the conference final there, but it was pretty clear that this Carolina team had a different sizzle than they've had in past years. And I think they've always had depth. I don't know if they've ever had this much depth. Top to bottom, this team is a terror to play against.
- [14:31]
Shayna Goldman
Yeah. And listen, you're saying, oh, it's the conference finals. It's a bad time to change your tunes. Listen, we've seen what has happened to this team in the conference finals last year. Going into the playoffs. It's not like they had played that much more. When they went up against the Panthers, it was kind of that recognition of that system can work, but look at the skill the Panthers have within it. And it's funny because I did originally pick against the Canes too. Going into it, my bracket, I put Ottawa and literally the second Zube got hurt in game one because you had time to change it, I was like, nope, I'm going back to the Canes. I was wrong. And I immediately changed. I've never done before. I was like, it's not happening. Why am I galaxy braining this one? The Canes have something, but I didn't think they were going to go this deep either because, you know, it just felt like other teams were getting hot at the right times. And it's like, maybe they'll be able to pick apart the Canes. But I think the Canes surprised us because they literally won games in different ways. Like they were able. We're watching them too. It's like they weren't dominating on the score sheet, right? And we've seen this happen before. Like, look how good the Canes are. But it doesn't matter in this series. Look how good the canes are for 20 minutes. And then Vegas flips the script so well. But I think when they got it to that Montreal series, we saw them actually like blow the doors off for a game and it's like, okay, so it happened to you once. Now you're back to these like close knit games and then all of a sudden they start running away with it and you're like, so you can win games in that way. And I think that was a good sign for them as well.
- [15:49]
Max Boltman
Your point? Switching the pick on Zube, I think it's like the highest compliment you can pay a team. And it's true of this Carolina team is that if anything about your game is not in order, if anything goes wrong for you, good luck. And that is, that is very true to how it feels to play against Carolina. It's true in this series, by the way, I mean, William Carlson, a huge piece for the Vegas Golden Knights. When I saw William Carlson was out, that was when I was like, yeah, they've got no chance. I thought this could go seven. You know, going into that certainly the whole way through the series pretty much. But once Carlson was out, it's like you really Just can't afford to be down, guys. Against Carolina, they don't give you any margin for error at all.
- [16:22]
Shayna Goldman
Yeah, no. And, like, it's tough to be like, oh, you could have won the cup if you had one guy. It's like. Well, it's not that because it's the ripple effect, Right? Like, we already know Jack Eichel is playing at such a high level, but not at the level that they needed. Not MVP caliber that we've seen him play at this level, at this very level before and at points this season. And not only that, your center comes out of the line and you have the option of. Do you go Mitch Marta back to center, which he did well at, but he obviously popped off when they put him back at the wing. And having Carlson be a center was a difference, too. Or Brett Howden, who technically is a natural center. Right. Like, this is someone like I watched up close for years trying to figure out, like, could he be this guy? Because there was so much hype around him from the junior level, from the leadership of it all. And it was so much around, like, this is a great center. And then now he's not even play center, you know, like, he has this great postseason, and he's finishing those chances. And a lot of it's his line mates doing the heavy lifting. But he still earned a lot of credit, I think, for how he was winning battles in the series. But here he is back at center, and I think it was very clearly, like, his worst game of the series. And it's not like they've played with Carlson all year. It makes it even tougher, right? Like, they should have been a little more adaptable to Carlson being out. They had to deal with it earlier this postseason. But like you said, Carolina doesn't give you that inch to breathe. And I think especially last game, the way we saw them finally take over, win a second period, hold it for 60 minutes, and play that way, it was like, that's a really poor position for Vegas to be. Yeah.
- [17:45]
Max Boltman
It's funny, like, I want to ask you what's the best story, but I know it's an impossible position. Like, there's. They're infinite here. I mean, you can go to Taylor hall and be in this guy who's kind of your first overall pick, and. But you end up bouncing around teams, and I don't know two years ago that I thought Taylor hall was going to be in. Able to be in contention for a Con Smyth Trophy. He's a great story. You know, Slavin, I Think, you know, and he becomes the second American Everett with ken Morrow in 1980 to win both an Olympic gold medal and the Stanley cup in the same season. But Jacob Slavin forever had this kind of underrated label. Nobody's underrating Jacob Slaven anymore, right? At this point. You got Stankovin, you got Blake, I think you got the front office in this conversation and, and the non traditional approach. And it works. Shane Gossas Bear is another guy who I think people have questioned at various times of like, you know, can this guy be a, a true winning player? Brenda Moore getting over the hump, right? As a coach, like there's, they're infinite. Is there anything busy? Of course, I mean that's, that's, you know, on waivers, claimed in October and now he's, he's the guy leading you to a shutout in the clinching game of the Stanley cup final. Is there any of these that's really resonating with you as just in the, in the first few minutes here after
- [18:50]
Shayna Goldman
this happens, okay, it's hard to pick, but I'm going to cheat a little. I'm going to go the management route. Eric Tolski is a nerd, right? Like this is a different general manager who comes in and has worked his way into being a hockey man with all the experience he has with the Hurricanes. And he's someone that, like, when you see the moves he makes, you know, some of us look at it and go, okay, that's a risk. That's interesting. Like that's an interesting bet. And it's the early contracts, right? Like Jackson, Blake got extended early. Logan Stankovin to acquire him in the first place to go for Miko Ranson, it doesn't work. And then to make a second move in one season and everyone immediately counts them out. They bring in Logan Steinkhoven, they get him to play center, right? Like they, they work with him this summer to make sure he's prepared for it. They signed him early to this extension and as the year went on, you're seeing him get more and more comfortable with it. It's all different risks that he's taking. You're buying into someone like Kendra Miller who has all of the raw skill in the world, but you have seen multiple coaches in New York not figure out how to challenge it in the right way. And they bring them to Carolina knowing he will work in the system and they will get the best out of him and look what happens. Someone like Dealers, right? You could say, why go for that rush based talent it didn't work out with nature. They chose not to sell low on nature's to keep him to orchestrate this whole thing and then knew they could add someone with that kind of skill set and it would all work out. He is so fascinating. All of these moves, all of these contracts, all of these risks that have been taken. I am so curious if other teams take note and go look at having that thinker as your general manager and what can happen, right? Like will we see others take note and I'm not saying don't have former players in general manager roles, but like will we see more of these, you know, analytical data driven perspectives in AGM roles to have a greater say or more teams going for that in their general managing roles. And then you have the former players as the agm, so you still have that, you know, widespread thought process. You look at it with the Canes and how involved Rob Brynmore is and everything and you look at the front office, they have, you know, former players as well. That's kind of my takeaway because when you want to talk about this series, it's knowing to bet on Brendan Bussey, like, okay, none of us saw this one coming. It's knowing to bet on Taylor hall and knowing he could have this resurgence and betting on Blake and Stankhoven and having these incredible contracts that, you know, a lot of the times you see teams win and you go, how much more can they do this? We know costs are going to rise. We know that every player who just won just went up in cap space and their next ask is going to be huge. So many players are locked in place already. It was done preemptively without knowing necessarily this is what the result was going to be this year. And they're a contender with a ton of cap space and a ton of flexibility to keep this window open in the long term.
- [21:26]
Max Boltman
Yeah. And to your point, Drew Livingstone had a Great post earlier. No one with a cap of 10 million or more for the canes, I mean, 9.75, you're knocking on the door there. But increasingly as we get into this higher cap world, 10 is not such a big number anymore and they're still all under it. It kind of leads me to the next place I want to go here, which is like there's really not a lot of attrition on the, on the docket for the Carolina Hurricanes this summer. I mean, Freddie Andersen, Nick DeLaure and Mike Riley are the UFAs. I think Bussey and Kachekov seems like you could go forward with them as your 1, 2. If you wanted to. If Anderson wanted to move on and chase a, you know, maybe more premium role, you could certainly bring him back, too. You got the space to do it. Like, can this Carolina team, are you going to put them as your favorite to begin next year?
- [22:09]
Shayna Goldman
I definitely think they're going to be up there as a favorite in the east and we're going to have to see how all the other chips fall because there's so many teams that are right there that could be in the mix. But like, to me, they are locked in as a contender in the long run. Right, because they're so different from other teams where it's like you can have the roster but you don't know how those buttons are going to get pressed. You don't know how it's all going to work out. You could look at any contender around the league and maybe you could pull the Panthers out of it and say, Paul Maurice is going to be safe for years, rightfully so. We're talking about John Cooper. We don't know. You know what I mean? Like, I get he wants wins coach of the year this year, but there's conversations about guys like him and Bednar. You literally do not know who is going to be coaching teams ever in the NHL with the Canes. It's not just who's coaching the team. It's this is the foundation. Like, it's not just a system, it's an identity. It is up and down the lineup and everything that you could look at this roster and see how many players are locked in. And yes, they're going to need tweaks over the years. Right. Like Jordan Stall is 37 years old, Jordan Martin is 33 years old and Slavin's 32. So you're eventually going to want to have people that can, like, take over the heavy lifting. And obviously having Miller and Chapfield, that helps. But you know what I mean, like, you're going to want to keep that going, but to know that foundation that you have of now, young core talent and the coaching and the system and the identity. Oh, and the system and the identity can actually be adaptable now and can be broader than we ever thought. Like, to me, that is so sustainable.
- [23:25]
Max Boltman
The contracts that stink of it, Blake, are just ridiculous.
- [23:27]
Shayna Goldman
I mean, it's ridiculous.
- [23:29]
Max Boltman
That second line could have. You know, a lot of people made this joke on Twitter. Like, you just give it to the whole second line. It's true. I mean, Hall Stankeven, Blake was like, just no matter what happened, you could bank on those guys and it was true tonight and it was true throughout the playoffs. And those those two, Stankeven and Blake are locked in at unbelievable numbers for years to come. I love days like these at the pool, but my moderate to severe plaque psoriasis can sometimes take me out of the moment. I'm ready to make a splash with clearer skin thanks to Skyrizi risankizumab RZA Skyrizi is a prescription only injection for adults who are candidates for systemic or phototherapy. At four months, most people saw 90% clearer skin when measured from head to toe and many were even 100% plaque free. People also saw significant improvement in psoriasis symptoms of pain, redness, itching and burning.
- [24:24]
Shayna Goldman
Don't use if allergic to Skyrizi. Serious allergic reactions, increased infections or lower ability to fight them may occur before treatment. Get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor about any flu like symptoms or vaccines.
- [24:36]
Max Boltman
Now there's nothing on my skin thanks to Skyrizi and that means everything. Ask your doctor about Skyrizi, the number one dermatologist prescribed biologic and psoriasis. Visit skyrizi.com or call 1-866-Skyrizi to learn more. Rally Caps Lucky Socks Never stepping on the foul line Baseball is full of superstitions. We hope give us an edge, but let's be honest, most of it's just luck. That's how I used to feel about hair growth products until I found Nutrafol, the official hair growth partner of Major League Baseball. It's physician formulated, clinically tested and recommended by dermatologists. An actual game plan for thinning hair. Nutrafol has formulas for men at every stage. There's Nutrafol men for guys 18 to 49 to help grow thicker, fuller hair in three to six months, and Nutrafol Men 50 plus, designed specifically for men 50 and up who want to keep the hair they've got. Go to nutrafol.com promo code baseball for $10 off your first month subscription and free shipping. Find out why Nutrafol is the only hair growth supplement brand trusted by mlb@nutrafol.com spelled n u t r a f o l.com promo code baseball that's nutrafol.com promo code baseball it's smart to always
- [25:58]
Kat
have a few financial goals and a really smart one. You can set earning cash back on what you buy every day. And with Discover you can get this Discover automatically matches all the cash back you've earned at the end of your first year. Seriously all of it. And we trust you to make smart decisions. After all, you listen to this show, see terms@discover.com credit card.
- [26:24]
Max Boltman
Let's shift gears and talk about Vegas now, because Vegas, I think, had a fantastic run here, too, and you come two games short of winning the ultimate prize. It's brutal, it's difficult, but I think Vegas outperforms, especially if you look back to like the first week of April, Shayna, and you're making the coaching change and you're bringing in John Tortorella. Like, Vegas accomplished a ton to get here and, and we'll talk about what they have ahead and some of the tough decisions here, but this was still a really impressive run from the Golden Knights, and they just, they run out of steam. I, I, you know, I think how much they asked of Carter Hart in the playoffs was always going to be an issue with how little he played in the regular season. And Tortorella really bristled. So, you know, I, I guess he's standing by that one. Right. And I understand that there's a psychological element to that, but it did feel like, you know, and I don't think he had a terrible game six or anything like that, but it did feel like he ran out of steam a little bit. And then obviously the Carlson injury as well.
- [27:15]
Shayna Goldman
Yeah, I think hearts play really slipped between, like, games two, three, four or five. And it showed just how much work, like the heavy lifting that the defense did in front of him for so much of this postseason, too. And, you know, even when he was making saves in some of these games, he looks shaky or you could see it like he's allowing these goals on, you know, three straight goals and three straight shots in the rest of the game. It just, he doesn't look settled. So that was part of it. And I think too, like, yeah, like, it's true, we think of Vegas as these constant contenders because they have been right. Like, they get the big name players, but it shows. When they made that coaching change, I mean, I looked at it like you're buying time. You were buying time and hoping that a change in voice and not tactics is going to be enough. You're going to have someone that can come in and make your tweaks, and it bought them time. Yes, they had an easier path. They had inexperienced teams, and so many times this postseason, they look like the more experienced team in those situations that they knew how to flip momentum. Even in this series, what they did was impressive to get this far. No one saw, you know, that to come out of the Pacific Division after this year and all the ups and downs that they've had. Yeah, it, what they did was great until it wasn't. It's going to be tougher for them to build off of it because of the cap concerns.
- [28:24]
Max Boltman
I mean there's so many moving parts to this now, right? I mean Aiden Hill's contract is, you know, he's the guy who led him to their last Stanley cup very early in that deal at over 6 million AV. Rasmus Anderson, a guy who they traded for, they made a big move for. I think we all thought they were going to find a way to keep Rasmus Anderson. I don't know that Rasmus Anderson's playoffs make him a guy that this extremely cutthroat Vegas team looks at and says this is the guy we can't afford to let walk. And, and you know, with Vegas you're always looking at two things. Who are they going to go out and add and who are they going to be willing to cut bait on to make it happen. And both of those are massive questions here as the offseason begins for them.
- [29:00]
Shayna Goldman
Yeah, I feel like they sunk the cost into Anderson. They're going to keep them. But the inconsistencies, it's not just year to year within the season alone and his postseason wasn't great. And it's like they get him. He struggles at first. Okay. You know, it took longer than you would have expected for him to find his footing. Then he does and then it starts slipping up when it matters the most. And you know, this is someone that if he were to hit July 1st tomorrow, you know, if he hits July 1st, he's making money. I don't care how season went. Like right handed defenseman in this league. He's hard nosed and does a little bit of everything. And I understand Vegas saying we know how to get the best out of him. We did at times and it'll be a longer process and sure it's just going to be like what, what do the dollars and cents work out? Can they get them below that 8 million dollar mark? I think it's going to be huge here because the term and that money could be a problem just because he's so much more difficult to project his outcome when we don't know what he's going to be on a nightly basis. So then it's going to be who, who would be the cut. And obviously it's, you know, Hill is up there and that's a tough one to move this early. He only has a modified no Trade. So that's going to benefit Vegas here.
- [30:01]
Max Boltman
I'm also not convinced that he might not still be their best goalie. By the way, it was a tough.
- [30:05]
Shayna Goldman
I'm not either.
- [30:06]
Max Boltman
I've seen it from him. We know goalies can really oscillate year to year. What it looks like. It wouldn't shock me if they, if they did trade him. It wouldn't shock me if he was right back to being a 915 goalie next year. And it wouldn't shock me if they kept him and he was a 915 goalie next year on like 40 starts.
- [30:20]
Shayna Goldman
Yeah. I will be really curious where he goes. Does he go to a contender and keep up this level? Because if he goes to another team, I'm not so sure he can. But yeah, that's going to be a tough one. And then it's who else goes? If they want a Stanley cup and you're saying here's a player with a shiny new ring. I think it's easier to shed space. But they always manage.
- [30:38]
Max Boltman
They do. It's just, it's interesting that it's always a big part of the conversation. Two guys who are not going anywhere. Mitch Marner and Jack Eichel and I honestly, I think both had outstanding playoffs. I know that the two goals for Eichel throughout the playoffs was a source of frustration. None more frustrating than the two on. Oh, that goes off the crossbar of the post. Him and Stone tonight. That's obviously a big one. Marner. I, you know, I, I saw the people on Twitter talking about Marner. No points the last two games of this series as they get eliminated. I can't do it. I, I can't knock Mitch Marner. I think he, I think he had a great playoffs. No, he didn't do it. In the final two games here we talked about some of the, the line factors to it. I really think he still had a great playoff. But you know those two guys are always in the spotlight and, and when you are the stars. We talked about the Carolina end of this. Right. It's, you know, when you're the kind of the ultimate team we can overlook. You know, I don't think really we ever killed Sebastian Aho on this show even though he had a fairly quiet goal scoring playoff. Right. But Jack Eichel is Jack Eichel and Mitch Marner's Mitch Marner. There's just more spotlight that comes with those guys.
- [31:38]
Shayna Goldman
Yeah, absolutely. Like with Ajo was like, okay, if they can't go and get going in this series, you're gonna have a problem. Okay. They got going in this series and he had really big moments that helped contribute to wins and comebacks that I think built goodwill for, you know, the following wins with Marner. To have two of your stars not be your best when you need them to, and you know, the history, it's hard to overlook. I'm not super worried.
- [31:59]
Max Boltman
I had a series, he had a four point game and we're talking about
- [32:04]
Shayna Goldman
him for the cons. Mike. 48 hours ago, like, come on.
- [32:07]
Max Boltman
No, totally. I, I get it. And I think, you know, certainly some of the, Some of that is driven by narratives from people like us and Toronto fans reacting to them. Right. We were given Mitch Marner all kinds of flowers throughout the playoffs, and I think Toronto fans were ready for it to stop. Obviously it has stopped, but I, I do have to tip my hat to him. I thought he had. He answered a lot of questions in these playoffs. Even if in the end he doesn't get a Stanley Cup.
- [32:30]
Shayna Goldman
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, he was the guy. He was the guy at center, he was the guy at wing. He did it on both ends of the ice. He did it in the big moments. Yes. He should have done it here. It didn't happen. But like I, if, If he didn't have the Toronto history, this isn't a conversation. And I get why it should be. If he was bad all postseason long, it's one thing, but like he carried the load for. So it's the polar opposite of the Canes. Right. Everyone else carried the load, so Ajo didn't have to. Then they needed a ho too, and he stepped up. Right. Mitch Marner did it for so long. Someone else should have stepped up.
- [32:57]
Max Boltman
Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, it kind of goes back to the core difference between these teams. When you're a star driven team, the depth just tends to be lighter. And I think that's the interesting thing for Vegas is that's where a lot of their contracts are coming up this offseason. Like when you look at Vegas this summer, Riley Smith, Brandon Sod, Colton Sisons, Cole Smith, Jeremy Lauzon, Dylan Coughlin and Rasmus Anderson, as well as Ben Hutton, their UFAs. You know, there's some guys who were key players. I thought Coughlin probably did as much to improve his reputation as any player this postseason. Colton Systems had some good games. Cole Smith had some really good games. But we'll see. Like, to me, there's a lot of room for Vegas to retool the bottom six and, you know, as much as goaltending is the spotlight of the difference in this series, I do think, like, the depth was the actual difference in these two teams.
- [33:43]
Shayna Goldman
Yeah. Because Vegas went into the series having three lines that clicked, and I feel like their fourth line didn't do as much. And, you know, it's the interchanging bunch of guys who has the better cast of it. And I didn't look at Carolina as a bunch of guys, you know what I mean? Like, if that makes any sense. I didn't feel that way at all. Like, the bottom pair for Vegas, you're like, okay, who's playing tonight? And, you know, you don't expect them to step up and they didn't. So I guess that's why you think of them that way versus, like, look at this deep lineup. Look at these four lines. Look, it's such a complete team. Like, we talked about the stars a lot in the series.
- [34:15]
Max Boltman
All right, here's the biggest free agent for Vegas, John Tortorella. You bringing him back?
- [34:22]
Shayna Goldman
Does he want to come back? Right. I think that that's part of the conversation. Does he want to come back? Because I really don't know the answer to that. I would take another year of John Torrella on Vegas. Why not? Look what he did in such a short time. And, you know, is there more work to do? Absolutely. And I think that he could do it. Like, I think that he's demanding of his players. But who else are you going to. Like, who else are you going to hire at this point?
- [34:43]
Max Boltman
No, it's true. And, you know, that's a very good point. I mean, the, the market sorting itself out in this way does. Does tend toward, you know, you're the last team up. You probably should stick with what's working. But it's interesting because I felt like his. Our producer sends a message in the chat. Bruce Cassidy's available. That would be quite something after everything that's gone on. I, I think, you know, he's proven he's an excellent tournament coach here, and I think he's ideal for that. In, in what would almost be maybe in everybody's best interest is like a one or two year deal here. So that if things go awry, we know how quickly Vegas likes to change gears. Tortorella is protected from a Bruce Cassidy like situation. This clearly is someone who lives to coach, but it also gives him a little more time with this group. And I think he managed them exceptionally well throughout this whole thing. I mean, that was the way he came into this. He was talking like he wanted to be a guidance counselor. I think he pretty much was that. We saw some of the mic'd up moments of how he talked to his team and you know, the way he backed him. I think you know that there was that viral exchange where he said the, the heart question was the stupidest thing you'd ever heard. That's clearly. He knows what he's doing there. Right. And so I think the way he managed Vegas was excellent. We also know that there tends to be a shelf life for how long his style lasts. I think that's increasingly true for like 98 of coaches in the National Hockey League. It's pretty much just John Cooper and Jared Bedner that it doesn't seem to go anywhere with. So I, I'm with you.
- [36:02]
Shayna Goldman
Don't forget Ben.
- [36:03]
Max Boltman
Rod.
- [36:03]
Shayna Goldman
Of course.
- [36:03]
Max Boltman
How can we forget the guy who. Stanley cup right now. That's right. And I, you know, he could do it forever. I, I genuinely think he's, he's a guy who. You can't get sick of. Rod Brindemore.
- [36:13]
Shayna Goldman
I mean, no.
- [36:14]
Max Boltman
Fourth person to be a coach and a captain to get in the Stanley Cup. I'd be curious to see how many of those were for the same team. That's a Dave McCarthy stat. Really good stuff. And, and obviously he should already be in the hall, but this has to clinch it, right?
- [36:28]
Shayna Goldman
Yeah, yeah, he should definitely be in the hall. Like he should be in the hall as a player and then as a separate. It should be a separate thing altogether.
- [36:34]
Max Boltman
Totally. I mean, put them in twice is what you're saying, right?
- [36:37]
Shayna Goldman
Yeah, yeah, basically.
- [36:39]
Max Boltman
Any final thoughts here? I mean, there's going to be so much more to unpack as the Sean's get to this later in the week, but anything else that I'm not teeing you up for that, that really stuck with you throughout this game or this series.
- [36:50]
Shayna Goldman
I think the Tortorella point is going to be fascinating. And I do wonder now if Bruce Cassidy is allowed to speak to teams because like if I'm Vegas, I want everybody else waiting to hire a coach until they know what they're doing because you don't want anyone else being taken off the market in case Tortorella doesn't work. But I do, I do think that he makes sense to stick around. Like, it's a veteran team, you see how well it works. Like, why not keep it going for a little bit longer? I think that one's really interesting. I'm also going to be curious to see like what happens, you know, Vegas is not a very young team. So how do they stay young is going to be. It's not, it hasn't been a priority so far. Right. Like this is a team that to them draft picks, their trade capital and it's worked for them for so long and they keep extending this window because they are so ruthless. They attract any free agent in the world, any trade person and they want to go to Vegas because you see how Vegas wins and how yes they're cutthroat but they're doing it for in hockey the right reasons. Like you know, it's because they're trying to win at all costs. So what happens next with the Dorothy of situation? Because to me, you know he's been such an important part of this team. He is one of those younger players. His goal scoring is so important also like they're the team that knows how to guess the get the best out of him. Like I could see Chicago going here's $12 million Pavel Dorothea and he's going to be a $6 million player there. He's not the play driver and he's not great defensively. You know, Vegas has those strengths up and down the lineup, those two way strengths. Teams like Vegas, teams like Carolina can handle that. I don't know if anyone else can as well. I'm sure other contenders can but anyone with cap space I should say so I'm going to be curious how they navigate that one as well because we talk about Rasmus Anderson but they the door fee of one is going to be fascinating. The fact that his game went a little bit colder here in this final I think, you know, is part of the conversation. But we also look at it like last year the conversation was can he even play in the playoffs. And I think he answered that with flying colors this year. But it's like a building block for him I would say. I don't think it's going to be a problem for him in the long run. He ripped off that band aid was the contributor they needed. But like how do you navigate that this summer? And I'm going to be really interested to see that one.
- [38:48]
Max Boltman
So much more to look forward to. Look ahead to this summer and there'll be more to look back on. I'm sure the Sean's are going to have that for you on Wednesday. Sean Gentile, McAdoo and Frank Corrado that is going to do it for us tonight. Thanks for staying up with us and thanks for listening to this episode of the Athletic Hockey Show. We'll talk to you soon.
- [39:10]
Kat
It's smart to always have a few financial goals and a really smart one you can set earning cash back on what you buy every day. And with Discover you can get this Discover automatically matches all the cash back you've earned at the end of your first year. Seriously, all of it. And we trust you to make smart decisions. After all, you listen to this show see terms@discover.com credit card this is Kat
- [39:35]
Shayna Goldman
and Nat from Katnat Unfiltered and this episode is sponsored by Michaels. Your destination for all things Birthday Parties. If you've ever planned a birthday celebration, you know it goes from cute idea to full on chaos real fast. The party shop at Michael's makes life easier with over 4, 500 party supplies in 60 plus themes like Bluey Rodeo, Soccer Rainbow and more. Starting at just 99 cents. You can shop same day delivery or order online for pickup in store and they even do free helium inflation on select balloon styles. Michaels everything. To celebrate anything, visit Michaels in store or shop online now.
- [40:16]
Kat
Need up to $250 before payday. You know the vibe. A few days left your account on empty and all your bills hit at once. With Clio you can get up to $250 cash advance to help cover the gap. There's no interest, no credit checks and you can repay on a schedule that works for you. Download Clio and get the cash you need before payday. Depending on eligibility, you can get up
- [40:40]
Max Boltman
to a $250 cash advance.
- [40:42]
Kat
Terms and conditions applied.