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- [00:00]
Sean Gentili
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Sean McIndoo
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Sean Gentili
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- [01:05]
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- [01:28]
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Sean Gentili
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Sean McIndoo
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Sean Gentili
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Sean McIndoo
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Ad Read Announcer
This is the athletic hockey show.
- [02:25]
Sean McIndoo
What up? What up?
- [02:26]
Frankie Corrado
It is the Athletic Hockey show. It is May 13, 2026. I am Sean Gentili. I am at my home in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, briefly, mercifully been taken off the road. I'm here. Sean McIndu and Frankie Corrado. Fellas, how are we doing? We got a couple good games last night, did we not?
- [02:50]
Sean Gentili
Yeah, good buddy. I was just wondering when you were traveling all like. I Don't know. All these weeks, did you have the same luggage get up. That OV had just like a bunch of hockey bags spread out across the airport. Were you doing that whole thing?
- [03:05]
Frankie Corrado
I thought you were setting me up to say that I brought like a two week carry on and did laundry a couple times, which you knew, which
- [03:11]
Sean McIndoo
you were aware of.
- [03:12]
Frankie Corrado
I thought you were just setting me up to get humiliated to have.
- [03:14]
Sean Gentili
I would never do that.
- [03:15]
Frankie Corrado
Admit that I did laundry and you know, whatever. Had to buy. Had to buy Tide pods at an a.m. p.m. In Anaheim to clean my socks and underwear. I did, I did do that. I did not have the ov the ob, the OV setup though. It's funny because we're like really similar in a lot of other ways, but not that particular.
- [03:35]
Sean Gentili
Just promise me one thing. When you go back on the road, we need like an aesthetic check on whatever arena you end up at. Like give us the, the aesthetic vibe in rally and then correspond that with Buffalo, Buffalo, Montreal.
- [03:49]
Frankie Corrado
Nothing's going to beat Anaheim. Dude. I, I, that was my thought. That was. I, I've, I'm getting like, I know that game is in Vegas, but I've gotten like, what's the word I'm looking for, like some kind of envy for, for people who get to spend more time in the place. I love it there. It's a fancy restaurant. It's a, it's a, it's a, you know, a red lobster in 1996. That's the, that's the entire aesthetic there. We did see Vegas come. We can call it a comeback on, on them. Anaheim had a 10 lead off of Beckett, Seneca goal. Pavador fave scores 410 and OT gives the Ducks a 321 in that one. They're up 32 in the series. I think my takeaway coming out of that was like I was, There was a brief period in the second period, in the second period where I was a Ducks believer. They had like a 17:6 shot advantage or whatever it was the second period. I was like, I think these guys, I think these guys might do it. And then Vegas comes back and ends up winning it on the door of Faye. Goal in, in overtime. Man, I do. We think this is the pivotal game for this series. Like, is this the one that gives, I mean, I know it gives Vegas an advantage, but is this when we look back on this, on the series when it's over, is that the moment that we say, like, okay, that's when things changed?
- [05:11]
Sean Gentili
If, if Vegas wins the series, next game Then, yes. But I wouldn't count out Anaheim just yet. Just the nature of the way they play, high flying up and down the ice. They get a to of shots. They get a ton of chances. Like, I'm not willing to say that whatever happened in game five is going to carry over into game six. Like, I just. I can't see Anaheim going quietly. But let me ask you guys this, okay? So Pavel Dorothea scores two last game. He actually left the game. I think he took a shot off the knee and then comes back in, scores the OT winner. It's three goals in his last two games. If you were talking to just like a casual hockey fan who follows their own market only, and then, you know, you know about the superstars, and you ask them, how many goals do you think Pavel Dorothea has over the last two seasons?
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Frankie Corrado
Two seasons? Yeah.
- [06:00]
Sean Gentili
What do you think their answer would be? Because I don't think it would be. Whatever it would be.
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Frankie Corrado
Who is.
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Sean Gentili
It would be.
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Frankie Corrado
Who is Pavel Dorafev?
- [06:06]
Sean Gentili
It wouldn't be in the high 70s. It would be. I don't know. Who is that guy? He's. He's kind of really emerged here as one of the premier goal scorers that people don't really talk about very much.
- [06:17]
Sean McIndoo
And that's the thing. If you asked that same fan, how many goals does he have in the last three weeks, they might say something in the high 70s, because it feels like every single Vegas goal is. Is the same guy. You know, if I'm not watching the game and I'm just kind of following it, I see Jesse Granger pop up on my feed. He must just, at this point, cut and paste another goal, another go. Because it's. It is. He's been fantastic in the playoffs so far. And I mean, to answer your question, Sean, I. This whole series has felt like Anaheim was just on the verge of being the better team. And every time they tiptoe up to that line, it's like Vegas is able to just push him back, and they don't. And it's a pushback. It's. They. They don't knock them down. They don't finish them off. You know, they haven't had that opportunity yet, but it's. It just feels like Vegas is a step ahead. And I gotta say, my experience as a guy watching NHL playoffs tells me most of the time, when you have a series like this, eventually, and maybe it's in game six, the favorite just. Just wears the underdog down and takes it. And. And then you look back, then if you're Anaheim, you look back at all these moments and say. Say if that pocket just bounced a little different, if we had finished here, if we had got the save here, because you feel like you were right there the other 20% of the time. You get to a game seven, and then suddenly, right when you expect it, that pushback isn't there, and that's when the underdog comes through. This does feel like it could be there, and it. But I. At this point, I'm still feeling like this is just too many missed opportunities for the dunks.
- [08:04]
Frankie Corrado
Yeah, it was something. I. I think this kind of speaks to what you were saying, Sean. Like, it was something they were pushing pretty hard on the ESPN broadcast last night. Like, okay, where's. Where's Jack Eichel? Like, this is the game where Jack Eichel steps up because he's got two assists in the series. You know his lines. They're. They've got a. You know, Vegas has a 21 goal lead when they're on the ice, but that's not. Obviously not producing at 5 on 5 the way that we're accustomed to seeing from him and him and Barbara Chevin in particular. And it did. It didn't happen last night either. Right. So you keep. That speaks to something, though, where you're like, all right, we're gonna see this next level from Vegas in. The longer it goes with them
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Sean McIndoo
bleeding
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Frankie Corrado
in this series now, the. The more inevitable it kind of starts to feel, right, because they are. They're getting carried by Dorothea. That's. That's great. But it does feel like at some point, you know, the big gu. Vegas, Eichel in particular, are gonna. Are gonna step up. And what we saw last night, too, is they got good goaltending, man, especially in that. Especially in that. In that second period, it was. It was Carter Hart looking like he knew what he was doing out there, and that's something that, you know, we've seen the flip side of it plenty of times, too. So there's stuff that's happening here for Vegas, you know, there. I should say, stuff that's not happening. Like, they're up 3:2 in the series, right? But they're not getting the production from the big guy. They're, you know, heart hasn't been particularly good until. Until this last little chunk where you're like, okay, stuff is starting to change and that. That's where, like, I'm not counting out the Ducks. Like, obviously not, but, you know, it does feel like stuff's starting to shift, at least for this Next game.
- [09:52]
Sean Gentili
Well, to your point, on Carter Hart over, it's. It's been six games, really, where he's really caught fire here, where he's got like a 415 goal saved above expected. He's got a 932 save. Six games in the playoffs is a long time and it feels like an eternity. And he's played at, you know, the level that we probably became accustomed to before he had to leave. And Torts was the coach for that. And there's a few things now. So Carter Hart has emerged for Vegas. Torts is the coach. And for me, I kind of think Torts is just staying out of the way because he's got a lot of tools at his disposal. And one of those tools is a guy who didn't play much in the regular season. And William Carlson, like, he was hurt. He played 14 games now he's played five in the playoffs. And his ice time is going up. Like, starts at 11, goes to 13, then game three, he's at 19 now. He's in that, like 17 to 19 range. And that makes a big difference for Vegas. Like we always talk about it, premier centerman, guys that can play matchups and guys that are defensively responsible. Well, you're playing against Anaheim, who has a lot of speed, a lot of skill. It's important to have that kind of player. And essentially it took him two games to get up to speed. And so that's another thing that makes a difference for Vegas that they didn't have in the regular season when we were having all these conversations about Vegas and being skeptical about what it could look like in the playoffs. They had Aiden Hill or Akira Schmidt and net. They had Bruce Cassidy as a coach. They didn't have William Carlson. Like, those are three things that have changed now. And Vegas looks different. And you can mitigate Jack Eichel not scoring at the rate that you would like him to, because these other things have emerged.
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Frankie Corrado
Because part of that and part of that you can. You can play Marner with Carlson, too. Like, that's. That's what they can do now that they couldn't do before is that you can have Marner in the kind of spot. I know they maybe wanted him with Eichel when they signed him, but, you know, if Mitch Marner was a center, he would play center full time. And there's a reason that he plays on the wing. It's because. It's because he's better there. And now you have him playing with Carlson. Your. Your top six makes a whole lot More sense. And you have a line that can, if nothing else, like, control the run of play for significant amounts of time in the sort of layout that you want it.
- [12:15]
Sean McIndoo
Yeah. And you start wondering now if you're, if you're a Vegas fan, maybe if you're an Anaheim fan. They're up three, two. What happens when we get the Jack Eichel game that we haven't got yet? And that's, that's always in the playoffs. It's, that's always it. Right. You see it in, in Montreal when Caulfield wasn't going at 5 on 5. It's sort of like on the one hand, man, it stinks that our guy isn't. Isn't producing. On the other hand, we're still here and especially.
- [12:42]
Frankie Corrado
And it's going to happen eventually. Like, that's, like, that's what the feel is.
- [12:45]
Sean McIndoo
You got to think it has to. I mean, Jack Eichel is too good a player that, that he's not going to blow any. And he had the two assists last night. So, I mean, maybe this is. Is the start of it, but you're, you're looking at a guy who's. Hasn't scored yet, but he's there. And, and you mentioned Mitch Marner. He's been the story for Vegas for a lot of the, the, the first run he's held off the scoreboard last night. And I wouldn't say they don't miss a beat because it was overtime. I mean, we're one. One shot the other way from having a very different conversation. But sometimes that's what a good playoff run looks like. It just the, the. The bad thing is always one shot away, but it never quite gets there. And next thing you know, you're. You're deep into a playoff run and everybody's starting to buy in.
- [13:31]
Frankie Corrado
Yeah. I mean, we're past the point of where you worry about how wins happen and you just worry that they do. Like, it doesn't, it doesn't matter that, you know, that they needed a, that, that they blew a late lead and needed overtime to, to take the lead or that you needed Carter Hart to steal another one or that Eichel still hasn't scored a goal in the series. Like, like who, who cares?
- [13:53]
Sean McIndoo
You're.
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Frankie Corrado
You're up three, two. Like, you don't. And it sounds corny, it sounds like a cliche, but you don't, you don't ask questions and you don't necessarily make apologies for, for how you come across wins whenever, whenever you finally do.
- [14:05]
Sean Gentili
No and to that point, like, even how you construct your lines in a game, like, I, I guess I find it fascinating that Mason McTavish, who has been a healthy scratch, Olin Zellweger, who's been a healthy scratch, McTavish, two assists, Zellweger gets a goal. And if you looked at Anaheim's lineup on any given night, where McTavish was out of the lineup, you would look at it and say, you're telling me VL and Washy and Johnston are better players than Mason McTavish, but you just put the lines together the way you think you're going to win a game. And, you know, a good for those guys for jumping in and getting some points and feeling good about their games because they're supremely skilled players and they've had great moments in their career. But I kind of wonder now, if you're Anaheim, are you onto something there? Like, keep keeping a little more skill around and trying to see if you can, you can get back into it that way. Like there, it's a close series. It's not like Anaheim's so far behind. Like, it's, it's one goal. Either it's one moment here, here or there that's making the difference right now. So when the margins are that slim, you're just. Everyone's walking this, this tightrope. And even more so if you're the team that's down in the series.
- [15:20]
Frankie Corrado
Yeah. And we're probably going to see Mason McTavish play a bigger role in this moving forward because Ryan Palin gets hurt last night. Right. He's. He'd given them big minutes, good minutes. He's playing 3C for them over the last chunk of games. And he, he leaves with what looks like a concussion after a hit after hit by Braden McNabb that got Braden McNabb tossed because it was, you know, 15 minutes late.
- [15:40]
Sean McIndoo
Right.
- [15:41]
Sean Gentili
So Paling wears the tinted visor, too, which would tell you that, like, there's some sensitivity there already. So that's unfortunate. And he eats some of the hardest minutes of any centerman in the NHL. Ryan Bailey.
- [15:53]
Frankie Corrado
All right, the other game, the early game, it was Canadian Sabers, obviously, that series is tied after two. We see Buffalo come back and tie it last night. The story come out of that was, and maybe I'm just, maybe this is American hockey fan watching the American broadcast. But the. Because there was a ton, a ton of focus paid on ESPN to the penalties. But the story coming on that came to me was, was the penalties. There were seven called On Buffalo, there's four on. On Montreal. Buffalo, of course, ends up capitalizing more than Montreal does. Montreal goes 1 for 7 on the power play, which I'd love to see how many times that's happened over the last couple years. Buffalo scores a couple. My, my take on the penalties is that every single one like. And, and of course, one of my buddies is a Sabers fan. He's losing his mind over it. He's, you know, sending the diving Canadiens memes from 2009, right. That were, that are getting resurfaced again.
- [16:53]
Sean Gentili
Those are OG memes, man.
- [16:54]
Frankie Corrado
Uh huh. That's. Yeah, it's an old, it's an old meme, but it checks out. Every single one of those calls was a no doubter. That's, that's the wrench in the works when it comes, when it comes to all this stuff. And it was. It's similar to stuff we saw in Carolina, Philly, where you're seeing high sticks and you're seeing just very, very blatant, you know, by the book, by the book penalties. And it's clear that there's at least a couple series in this postseason where they're just. Where they're not willing to let that slide. I don't have a problem with it. We were talking about it in the,
- [17:27]
Sean McIndoo
in, in the group, in the group
- [17:28]
Frankie Corrado
chat last night, boys. But like the, the, the point that I want to make here is that this is what it looks like when the rulebook, when the rule book gets called. And this is something we hear year after year, series after series from fan base after fan base that's mad about missed calls on their team is just call the rulebook. And I get it. Like that's, that's, that's fair. Like, I kind of agree. But you got to remember, if you're the Buffalo Savers in particular right now, this is what calling the rulebook looks like. Like if you get hit in the face with a stick and you got in your bleeding a little bit, it's four minutes. That's, that's the way it goes.
- [18:10]
Sean McIndoo
I've been saying for years when people say, just call the rule book, you don't want that. Because. And, and when I say you don't want that, I don't even mean to be a bad thing because. Because I know Frankie's got his, his. I mean, Frankie loves the referees, so
- [18:27]
Frankie Corrado
he's, he's a big ref guy in general.
- [18:29]
Sean McIndoo
Big ref apologist. Exactly. So. But, but I'll just. When people say just call the rule book. Or they say, I just want. No, no, no. You. You want your team to get all the calls and you've got it in your head that if they just called the rule book, surely my team, I mean, maybe we give up a couple power plays, but we'd have nine every night. That's definitely the way it would work. No, you don't. Just don't. Don't say you want the rulebook called. Don't say you want consistency. Don't say you want any of it. Just say I want my team to get a lot more power plays and that's.
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Ad Read Announcer 2
That's.
- [19:00]
Frankie Corrado
You're entitled to that. Like, like fans. Fans should want that. You should want your team to get 10 power plays and the other team to get none.
- [19:07]
Sean McIndoo
It sounds wrong to say it, so it. People have. Have figured out these little code words for it and just call the rulebook it. Most nights is going to be 10 plus power plays between the two teams. And, and, and most fans don't like that. They turn around and complain even though they got what they ostensibly were asking for. But again, I'm not. I'm not captain, ref. So let's let it look like him waiting.
- [19:36]
Sean Gentili
Let me just go get my striped stripes. I have my striped jersey upstairs. And I call Jax and I call Kelly Frazier.
- [19:44]
Frankie Corrado
He's a Kelly Frazier jersey. Yeah.
- [19:46]
Sean Gentili
Okay. Here's my thing about the a million penalties that get called. It'll happen for a little bit until everyone adjusts. Because over the course of the history of the NHL, there have been different rule changes and implementation of things like obstruction or hooking or cross checking or you name it, and the players have adjusted. How long does that adjustment take? I think that depends. But in the playoffs, like, if you look at that game last night, High stick is a high stick. It gets called every time. If you're Bowen Byram, why do you have your stick in the air? You're. If you're. If you're Tage Thompson and you've taken offensive zone penalties, it just happened, man.
- [20:31]
Frankie Corrado
It was last game.
- [20:32]
Sean Gentili
Like, why. Why do you need to cross check Kaden Gooley from behind? Does that have anything to do with the play? So you're asking for it as far as I'm concerned. And Buffalo wins that game last night despite the fact that. And you're gentile. Your buddy is probably going to hate this, but this is what it is. That was a reckless game from the Sabres. The way they played and the way they acted when it comes to their penalties. And they got away with One, because UPL played great and Montreal couldn't cash in on the power plays. Simple as that. Matthias Samuelson is trying to cheat for offense. He's leaving Jake Evans all alone in front of the net and they score after. Yeah, Guy, it's kind of rec. It's kind of reckless playing that way. And so.
- [21:12]
Frankie Corrado
And like some degree, some degree of credit to Lindy Ruff. I know like we're not crazy about, about giving that in these parts. But like he said it after the game, he was like, this is like this is on basically this is unsustainable. And it's. And it's. And it's our.
- [21:25]
Sean Gentili
I felt like the dam was. The dam could break at any point in that game and maybe if that game was a little bit longer, which it felt like it was the longest game ever played in regulation, the dam would have broke. But that is not a recipe for Buffalo to have success. So listen, like, you could. We can have the argument about call it like you see it, but a lot of those were just automatics. They're just, they're has to put his hand.
- [21:49]
Frankie Corrado
People were complaining about it in the, in the, in the Philly Carolina series and there's like, it's like puck over glass stuff like the most textbook like, like easy, no brainer, automatic calls that you're going to see. It's like, I don't like sometimes this stuff happens.
- [22:02]
Sean Gentili
Like one call, I don't, I don't think should have been a penalty. I will give Buffalo the one call. It was the Zucker on Valeno where Valeno kind of toe picks a little bit, but then Zucker gives him the business after.
- [22:15]
Sean McIndoo
So you, what about the.
- [22:16]
Sean Gentili
You made sure it was a penalty by doing that.
- [22:19]
Sean McIndoo
What about the Rasmus Dahlian interference call? What was your thought on that as a defenseman? Because that was close. He had the big reaction to it. And I think that's partly what got people fired up, that when you see a player react like that, you go, oh, this is going to be one of the games where we complain about the refereeing.
- [22:35]
Sean Gentili
If you don't think that Rasmus darling knew he was trying to get a piece of Kaden Gooley, you're fooling yourself. Like, he knew he was going to get a piece of Gully and Gooley knew that. He saw Darlene's heels and he's like, well, he's going to get a piece of me. So I'm going to make sure everyone knows he got a piece of me type of thing. Like it Sometimes it takes two to tango. Right? But that's another one where, hey, we're putting ourselves in a situation where we don't need to do that. They did that a lot last night.
- [23:03]
Sean McIndoo
So. So, guys, this, this art. It's been a good talk about this game. It's been a good conversation. I'm not sure if we got it quite right, though. Could we. Do you guys mind if we just ground everything to a halt for 15 minutes or so and just. Just to do a review? Because, I mean, we got to get this. What the heck was that last night? A double review just took 10 minutes. 10 minutes at least 10 minutes. And, and, and to. To figure out that something was a goal, which I have. I, I. Look, I'm no big fan of replay review, but puck over the line. Yes, that's a, That's a good use of review. And that was a case where the puck was in. Even the people who say, well, that shouldn't count as a goal. It's. It's the same as the Oilers Ducks one, right? Like, we all know the puck is in. Now we're just looking because the NHL has trained us to look for the get out of jail free card where we can still not count goals, but then we get the, The. The long review to figure out if the puck is in. And then Martin St. Louis, I. I believe, knowing perfectly well that he doesn't have a great case. Challenges for goalie interference because he knows game management, the ref, if it's 60, 40, they don't want to call 60, 40 the same way two times in a row. So he challenges on a very questionable goalie interference, and he gets it. And after 10, 15 minutes, we're back where we started.
- [24:39]
Sean Gentili
Okay.
- [24:39]
Sean McIndoo
Oh, it's exciting, isn't it?
- [24:41]
Sean Gentili
It was. It was riveting stuff. As we were sitting there at the TSM studio, we were on the edge of our seat, but I don't know if you caught this. The camera goes to Marty St. Louis on the bench after, after the call,
- [24:54]
Frankie Corrado
after the call got made, I knew you were going to say this.
- [24:57]
Sean Gentili
And. And he brings the official over. I can't remember if it was Kelly Sutherland or TJ and he gets that look in his eye where he's like, like he's scolding you. And he looks at him and he goes, it's goal interference. There's two I could challenge for. And basically what he's saying is, the initial player that went through the crease, I think it was Hellenius Helenius, and then Samuelson going into the crease. He's like, there's two there. And he's very animated about it.
- [25:26]
Frankie Corrado
And then whenever the call goes his way, whenever. Whenever he finds out that it worked, no reaction at all afterwards, like. Like just completely telling his team to wake up. There was a hundred percent.
- [25:39]
Sean Gentili
They were playing like. Like crap before that. And that kind of woke them up. That was that 12 minutes. Helped help them find their legs a little bit. For sure.
- [25:48]
Sean McIndoo
Yeah. But you know what? Puck don't lie. Eventually we got the delayed one here. Boy, that. Because it looked like it was all Montreal. And then suddenly the old bank shot.
- [25:59]
Frankie Corrado
Amen.
- [26:00]
Sean McIndoo
One of the Forum ghosts must have wandered down into the corner at the wrong time and taken one off the bean.
- [26:06]
Sean Gentili
Because you guys want to know something? Like, I call a lot of games in that building. Obviously, we see that that Zamboni door is a huge issue. We see that all the time. Not every game, but way more often than other buildings. And Dobish is aware of that, clearly, because watch him. It's a dump in a lot. That's a very active goalie. Usually he would be out there back playing a puck. He'll even body check the boards to try and knock it down. Like, he's super aggressive. And he stays in the net. His net, because he knows that. And he still got burnt for it because it was the most perfectly unlucky bounce that goes off his pad and in there's. He's playing it exactly the way he's supposed to.
- [26:47]
Frankie Corrado
That's in defiance of, like, basic geometry, basically. It's one of those. It's one of those bounces where you're like, okay, like, who? What are you gonna do? One note before we move on from that UKA, Lucanin pretty good yesterday. He's 28 saves. He's got a goal saves above expected of about 1.6 on the game. Obviously replaces Alex Lyon for game four. Just quickly, boys, like, do we. Do we go back to him for. For number five? Like, has he. Has he played his way back in for. For another start here? I tend to think he has 100%.
- [27:24]
Sean Gentili
You do. This is not. Like, this is not true. Starter backup territory for the Sabres. They're like a number of other teams that need both goaltenders and have needed both goaltenders. And Lucanin was the guy who started the playoffs. He was the guy that was supposed to be the guy. And he played excellent in the regular season. So, yeah, you're going with Lucan. And as far as I'm concerned now, until he has a stretch where either he's bad or the team is bad, but there's no way you're taking him out for next game.
- [27:52]
Sean McIndoo
Yeah, not, not after a win, unless it was one of those wild 8, 7 type wins. And I mean, I think this is, this is probably. I was, I was a little bit surprised Lindy Ruff made the change. I thought he might wait to play that card one more game. But I, I think if you're Lindy Ruff, you got to really honestly ask yourself, do we see us winning the Stanley cup with Alex Lyon as the goalie the rest of the way? And if the answer is no, then you got to figure out a way to get back to your guy. And, and they did it last night and it paid off. And so I think it's, I think it's got to be him. The. Maybe not the rest of the way because there's, it feels like there's room for a lot of twists and turns in this series still to come. But yeah, for the, for the next game at least.
- [28:34]
Frankie Corrado
Feel like we thought this one was going to be short. Like for a split second, you're like, this can be shorter than people thought then. I think yesterday disabused us of that notion.
- [28:42]
Sean McIndoo
Yeah.
- [28:43]
Frankie Corrado
Game five is Thursday night at 7 o'. Clock. We're going to hit a break. We got some breaking news here on the Wednesday show. We're going to talk about that after our little intermission here. Stick around.
- [29:01]
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- [30:18]
Frankie Corrado
All right, we're back. Guess who's not back. Craig Baruby, fired today by the Toronto Maple Leafs. John Shake announced that the club has parted ways with Brewery, who was their coach for two years. Two years left on the contract. Quote from Chaika in the tweet. This decision is more reflective of an organizational shift and an opportunity for a fresh start than it is an evaluation of Craig. Sean McIndu, let's see if you can talk for eight minutes uninterrupted. I feel like it's. I feel like it's possible.
- [30:53]
Sean McIndoo
You know what? I don't know if I can do eight minutes on this. If the decision had gone the other way, then we might have been looking at 80. Because, look, I, I loved Craig Berubai as a player. I liked him as a coach. When they hired him two years ago, I thought he was the right guy, but it didn't work. You know, even year one, they, the record said it worked, but most of the rest of it didn't say that. Year two, obviously complete disaster. So I really felt like this was the first early test for the new management group, and I felt like this was an easy one, which scared me because if they get the easy one wrong, then you just kind of throw your hands up and say, we're, we're really in for it here. I, I mean, the, the only reasons that I believe that you keep Craig Rube is number one, because ownership is going cheap and saying we're not going to pay a guy not to coach, and that's bad. Or number two, because the new management group is doing what new management groups do and keeping their powder dry and saying, we're just going to write off the first half of next year so that we still have a card to play and it buys us time and all of this stuff. So. Which would also be bad. They didn't do that. They made the right call. I'm not, you know, it's an easy one. This is, this on the, on the sat of fixing the Leafs. This was just filling your name in properly. But they could have screwed it up and they didn't. So good for them. I guess it's the right call. Now we see obviously who they go out and get and, and we go from there. But I mean, at the very least, hey, I would have been beside myself if they had found a way to screw it up. They didn't. So thumbs up, I guess, to the new guys.
- [32:48]
Frankie Corrado
And they did it in like a relatively normal timeframe too. Like this wasn't, this wasn't something that dragged on and something that was done relatively quickly. Like we should all be hesitant to give the Peli regime all that much credit about anything here. I think we've learned that. But it happened in the timeframe that
- [33:06]
Sean McIndoo
it probably should have.
- [33:09]
Frankie Corrado
Also, this is something From Jeff Fayette 2021-2026 here's a list of the things that the Leafs A list of stat of statistical categories in which the Leafs have declined attempts 4 per 60 attempts against per 60 attempt share expected goals 4 per 60 expected goals against per 60 expected goal share Goals for Goals Against Goal share Save percentage than PDO they're, they're, they're, they have a higher shooting percentage now than they did in 2021. And that's not all on Craig Barubi. Like there's obviously been a talent drain really up and down the lineup and starts with, it starts with Marner but extends all the way down, especially relative to the last five years. That's the kind of stuff that if you're a process minded person that, that you look at and you say this is just not, this is just not sustainable. It's not all in Barubi. It's about roster attrition and whatever else. But that just makes it borderline impossible to see the degradation in their performance at 5 on 5 over the last, over the last few seasons under him. It's, it's just, it just makes it, it makes it really, really tough. So yeah, Frankie, I don't know if, I don't know if you got thoughts on, on what comes next year or what kind of, what kind of candidate you look at if, if, if you're them. But that's going to be, you know, the phase of the discussion that we move into here shortly.
- [34:37]
Sean Gentili
I think the candidate that you look for is whoever is Spencer Carberry 2.0. For me, like that's, that's who you'd be looking at, someone who speaks the language of William Nylander and potentially Auston Matthews if he's going to be around because like the numbers don't lie. Auston Matthews in the time that Craig Berube has been the head Coach is a 33 goal scorer and a 27 goal scorer. Regardless of the fact that he missed games and he was hurt. That's what he was. And a lot of that has to do with the way the team was playing, the way he was used. The deployment. Yes. Mitch Marner is not there anymore. That can't be a crutch for every single thing. And if you go back to the start of the season, we all kind of look at these models that everyone shoots out. Dom's got one like everyone's got a model. You know the consensus around 95 to 100 points for the Toronto Maple Leafs, they were nowhere near that. They were one of the worst teams in the NHL. Not all of that is injuries, not all of that is roster construction. Like, it's. It's how the team played and how badly they. They underperformed. He might have been the right coach at the time when he first came in. As we sit here today, he's not the right coach for that group. He's not the right coach for the timing of where this group is at now. The only reason I'm surprised they would do this today is because if you're John Chaika, you have so many bullets that you can fire early on, right? And if there was any kind of notion that someone above him wanted to keep Craig Berube on, you would say, okay, we'll keep them on. I'll keep that bullet. And as soon as I see things going south,
- [36:18]
Frankie Corrado
see in November, that's exactly. That's when we can hit that button.
- [36:21]
Sean Gentili
But it does make a lot more sense if you truly are in the business of getting this team better and looking the way it's supposed to look and aligned with everything. Craig Brube is not the right coach for that. He's a good coach, good guy, well respected. It's none of that.
- [36:40]
Sean McIndoo
Just.
- [36:40]
Sean Gentili
He's not the right coach for this group at this point. So it absolutely makes sense that you're changing him out.
- [36:46]
Sean McIndoo
And you know what? A lot of new GMs would come in and they keep the coach because you get that initial patience from the fan base and you want to ride that out. That patience is not there in Toronto. We saw it at the press conference last week. We saw it in the reaction to the hirings. If I. If I'm John Traika, I'm going to. If I'm being told like, hey, maybe we don't want to spend the money, I'm going, guys, I. I've been on the job a week and My feet are being held to the fire. I've got a. You know, I can't. I can't be keeping my powder dry. I've got to, I've got to come out firing Frankie, would you. You're talking about the next Spencer Carberry. Is Bruce Cassidy, because that's the name we're going to hear in Toronto because it's, it's the big name available. Is that an option or is that. Is. Is that something for a team in a different situation than the Leafs are in?
- [37:38]
Sean Gentili
I think it's for something for a team in a different situation where you need a couple of years to push yourself over the edge and try and win. Like the year Toronto lost to Florida in the second round. That's a good year for Bruce Cassidy. But you think Bruce Cassidy is the right guy to see through Gavin McKenna starting his career or potentially some young guys that you could be trading for if Matthews isn't going to be here or Nylander is not going to be there? Like, that doesn't fit. A couple years ago, if Bruce Cassidy was available, he would be hired right away. But that is not like. I think you're going with someone who's a little more forgiving at this point than, Rather than someone who's a. Details are great, but I think. I don't think he's as forgiving as he would need to be. For a team that could potentially be going young and inexperienced, it's got to
- [38:28]
Frankie Corrado
be a little bit of a longer play. Like his. Bruce Cassidy, you know, he's. Look, he's great to the media, he's a great quote. He explains things better to reporters than anybody. Like I, like he. He's beyond successful. This is a cup winning coach. Like he, he has a place in the league at any time. He wants one. When you hire that dude in particular, the clock starts because guys get sick of them and it takes, it takes probably two or three years and then, you know, in most cases, I know he was in Vegas for a bit longer than that, but I, I don't know that that's. I don't know that that's the right. I don't know that. That it's. That it's the right time. I think I, I think I agree with now that can do. I know what you're gonna say. You're like, this team doesn't have two years to waste. Which, you know, fine, they might.
- [39:19]
Sean McIndoo
But I think there, there are two problems with Bruce Cassidy to, to Toronto. First of all, he doesn't, he doesn't fit the organizational culture because he's actually worked in hockey over the last few years. He's had a job. So, I mean, it's. Sorry, man.
- [39:35]
Sean Gentili
Go.
- [39:35]
Sean McIndoo
Go get. Go find a subway that's hiring. Do that for three or four years, and then maybe we'll circle back. The other thing is, you know, Frankie, you said, you know, a year ago, if Bruce Cassidy is available. Bruce Cassidy's not available right now.
- [39:49]
Sean Gentili
Apparently, according to Edmonton, he's not.
- [39:52]
Sean McIndoo
The Vegas Golden Knights are not allowing anyone to talk to the coach that they fired. And, you know, did we. We got the. The Craig Berube news this morning, which I don't think shocks anyone, but if you had had me bet on which coach we were going to find out was fired this morning, I would have bet Chris Knobloch after the story emerged that it was the Oilers were trying to talk to Bruce Cassidy. That's got to be awkward, doesn't it? Like, how do you. Short of a full denial, this never happened. We. This is our guy. How do you go back to Chris
- [40:28]
Sean Gentili
Knobloch when that's going to be.
- [40:30]
Sean McIndoo
Somebody knows.
- [40:32]
Sean Gentili
It's crazy, right?
- [40:33]
Sean McIndoo
On other coaches, like, that's. That ain't right.
- [40:36]
Sean Gentili
No, that's. You gotta. You gotta almost like mercy fire him at that point and put him out of his misery. I don't know how. Like, it's hard for him to keep credibility within the room with some of these guys when you've basically been dangling him to be fired by saying, you want to interview other coaches. So that'll be tough for him to come back to. You know, one name that just kind of popped into my head, and he's. He's gained a lot of momentum in the last couple years because he won an AHL championship, is Manny Malhotra, who was on the bench in Toronto already, so would understand a lot of the intricacies of the organization and maybe its flaws and where they've gone wrong and how to handle certain things. And from the time he's left to now, he's grown a lot as a coach, clearly being a head guy in the ahl. Like, and he was on the staff with Spencer Carberry, who. I said Carberry 2.0. Like, is there. He's also there. That. That. That makes sense.
- [41:33]
Sean McIndoo
Yeah.
- [41:33]
Sean Gentili
No, no letters.
- [41:34]
Frankie Corrado
Checks. He checks the baldness box.
- [41:36]
Sean Gentili
It's no letters. I get it, dude.
- [41:38]
Frankie Corrado
Can you imagine if they hired Manny Malhotra? A team with the first. With the first overall pick, they hire Manny Malhotra to coach them. Who is the best center in the 2026. Oh, brother. Get ready for it, dude. We just. We just 4D our way. 4D chest our way into, Into. Into the next show.
- [42:03]
Sean Gentili
The Vancouver special right now is they're picking three. And you could honestly make a serious argument for Caleb Malhotra to be picked at three if you're Vancouver, especially since you have no centerman. None. And he's the head coach of the AHL team right now.
- [42:20]
Sean McIndoo
Let's start pushing dominoes down. If, if the Maple Leafs call up Vancouver and say, we want to talk to Malhotra, if you're the Canucks and you're looking at the season you just had and you're looking at the coach that you have, how about you put
- [42:31]
Frankie Corrado
together a trade package for us?
- [42:33]
Sean McIndoo
Well, you could do that, or you could say, maybe we need to move on from Adam Foote and we need to make sure that. That we keep our guy. Oh, man, I don't know. And. And I mean, the last thing I'll say is we. We all assume, you know, if the. If the Vegas Cassidy story is true, we all assume it's because Edmonton's in the division. Wasn't there a little.
- [42:55]
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Wasn't it?
- [42:56]
Sean McIndoo
I feel like I remember there being something with Vegas and Toronto involving tampering last year. Maybe, maybe a little bit of blackmail got, you know, somehow happened into. Into forcing a trade. Do you think Vegas would be super eager to help out Toronto or do you think they'd go, gosh, guys, there's very strict rules about tampering. And I mean, we all know we gotta call the rule book, wink, wink. So, no, I don't think Bruce Cassidy is going to talk to you either.
- [43:22]
Frankie Corrado
See, this is the kind of conspiratorial stuff that we only get when Leafs news breaks. On the podcast, baby.
- [43:27]
Sean McIndoo
I'll show you my whiteboard in the next segment.
- [43:30]
Frankie Corrado
Yeah, there's. Attach the string to it, like during
- [43:34]
Sean Gentili
the break, we managed to make the playoffs. About the Leafs. Look at us.
- [43:40]
Frankie Corrado
We can do anything. Frankie, what's up, bud? What's your schedule like this week?
- [43:44]
Sean Gentili
Just doing sportscenter hits and then May 21, leaving for the Memorial Cup. Getting exciting. The Kitchener Rangers punched their ticket to Kelowna last night, sweeping the Barry Colts. No one cares. Work harder.
- [44:01]
Frankie Corrado
Oh, I heard that. Feels like it happened a month ago. I completely forgot about that. All right, bud, we'll talk to you next week.
- [44:07]
Sean Gentili
See you, boys.
- [44:14]
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Sean Gentili
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Frankie Corrado
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- [45:50]
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- [46:24]
Frankie Corrado
All right, there goes Frankie. Sean McIndoo what have you learned?
- [46:27]
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What have we learned?
- [46:28]
Sean McIndoo
Sean I learned that despite as we've already discussed, every fan unanimously agreeing that we just have to call the rule book that you can just decide not to call the rulebook and everybody will be fine with it. And I learned this in the series we haven't talked about yet, the Colorado Minnesota series where Josh Manson appears to but end Michael McCarron is called for a major appears to we get a say it with me a lengthy review. Oh, they're so exciting.
- [47:07]
Frankie Corrado
Oh, this is a lengthy review.
- [47:09]
Sean McIndoo
And at which point the officials come back and say it's a double Minor, but not a major. And as, as, as the resident rulebook nerd, I will point out that when it comes to but ending, it's one of those penalties in the rulebook where there is no minor. There is a double minor for attempted infractions, and it is an automatic major for the infraction itself. So in other words, they looked at that play of Josh Manson taking his stick and stabbing Michael McCarron in the head with it and said, you know what, that was an attempt. But I don't think he made contact. That was the result of that lengthy review. And we should point out the next day, Manson gets fine. So the league is like, no, you did. You 100 made contact. But the fascinating thing for me was the reaction that I saw from a lot of fans online. Kevin Biexa on Hockey Non Canada people were like, yeah, that's about right. That should be two minutes. That's four minutes rather. That shouldn't be a major. I guess if we don't like the rule, we can just not call the rule and people are okay with it.
- [48:24]
Frankie Corrado
And then part of it too, is that McCarron's reputation, his bad reputation, came back and helped him. That was something Russo said yesterday on Twitter. Of course I saw Mike getting into an argument with a random person over it, which is so unlike him. Basically saying that McCarran. This is the direct quote from Ruse. Actually. McCarran's been branded as an embellisher, plain and simple. He earned it earlier this season when he delayed the Wild Pred's game five minutes to review a major he faked. And now he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt. Like Russo saying flat out that's why that penalty didn't get called in game. And it's like you can kind of see how that tracks because refs are like, this dude is a faker. Like, he has done this before. He, like he faked it. He faked it. Faked his way through an entire review. We're not getting God again. And it turns out that it was,
- [49:12]
Sean McIndoo
by the way, is how it should be.
- [49:15]
Ad Read Announcer 2
Yeah.
- [49:15]
Sean McIndoo
If you, if, if you are somebody who's a clear embellisher, diver, faker, whatever you want to call it, you shouldn't get the benefit of the doubt. That that clip, when you do something as dumb as he did against the Wild, this is when he was still with, with Nashville and it was Matt Zuccarello slashed him, got him in the leg. He starts shaking his wrist and and skating around the then, yes, every referee should see that. And every referee should say, hey, man, hope you enjoyed that power play you got in November.
- [49:45]
Frankie Corrado
Yeah, you're never getting another one. It's the last.
- [49:48]
Sean McIndoo
Never getting another one. Yeah, that's. That's how you get rid of this stuff or at least. At least reduce it. But, yeah, it is. This. We didn't talk a lot about the series. Is this over? Is. Is there any path to a Minnesota comeback here? Do you think?
- [50:05]
Frankie Corrado
It's tough. It's tough to see there was. It goes back to that game three game that they have, and I feel like we didn't talk about that at all because it fell. I mean, that's been. We don't need to re. Litigate that, but I. I think that that's when it flipped. Not even. Not even. Not even last. It's. It was just. That's a. They're laying an egg there to. To follow up. The way that the. The way that they won with the way that they lost. That's the kind of stuff that when you're playing a team like Colorado, man, it's just. It. It feels like. It kind of feels like game over to have Boldy and Caprizov in particular play the way they did. They did in that game. They're just trying to do way too much, and it didn't. And it didn't work out. So, yeah, I'm of the mindset that this is just that this is. If it's not over tonight, it's over
- [50:50]
Sean McIndoo
in two days or it really does feel that way. And it's.
- [50:53]
Sean Gentili
And.
- [50:54]
Sean McIndoo
And look, I. I don't know that there's ever been a 3:1 comeback that people said, oh, yeah, we all saw that coming. When the series gets to 3:1, I mean, it's.
- [51:03]
Sean Gentili
But.
- [51:04]
Sean McIndoo
But usually there's at least a path you can cut to see that goes beyond maybe the goalie stands on his head, maybe this or that. I mean, it's. It's just Colorado's been a bit better on everything and a lot better on a handful of things. It's. It's almost. It's almost tough to talk about the Avalanche because it's kind of boring to say, oh, the team that was the best team in the regular season looks like also the best team in the playoffs. But they do. These guys are loaded, they're stacked, and they're playing a real good, wild team. But it's. It's.
- [51:39]
Frankie Corrado
And that's something you can extend to Carolina, too, in the East. Like. Like, it's just like they're better. It seems like they're better than everybody. So you try to find creative ways to say that, but you can only say it so many times.
- [51:50]
Sean McIndoo
Yeah. And the other piece of this is, is look, Carolina got a couple of, I wouldn't say easy matchups, but Ottawa, Philadelphia, not exactly a murderer's race row. Colorado's playing Minnesota, where Colorado had a first round buy against LA and Minnesota had that very tough series six games against Dallas. So the. This is the first playoffs in a while where it feels like the seeding actually is coming into play. Being the number one seed in the conference. Who would have thought is actually has
- [52:20]
Frankie Corrado
actual benefits to it? I know.
- [52:22]
Sean McIndoo
Not bad. Hey, I might actually watch them in the regular season next year. It might matter.
- [52:26]
Frankie Corrado
Not me.
- [52:28]
Sean McIndoo
Forget it. All right. What did you learn?
- [52:32]
Frankie Corrado
I'm just gonna steal Haley Salvian's lead from Montreal. Minnesota in the PW last night. It might have come a day later than scheduled, but on Tuesday night, in a decisive Game 5 of the PWHL semifinals between the Montreal Victoria and Minnesota Frost, the inevitability of Marie Philippe Poulain came through. I. I don't want to say that I learned that Marie Philippine is the greatest women's hockey player of all time or that. Or that she's clutch like maybe nobody else in the history of the sport. We knew that. But I kind of thought that with the way things went down, you have some like a stomach bug or whatever. Whatever it is that ran through Montreal's locker room delays that game a day. We know that Pullen is dealing with some sort of knee issue because we saw it, we watched the Olympics. Like she's been very cagey about what's going on, but she hasn't looked 100%. She's been gritting her teeth through a lot of this playoff run. I was briefly wondering whether she was going to have the opportunity to do the kind of stuff that she's done so many times before. And I was proven incorrect. She scores the decisive goal in that game, pushes Montreal through the final, ends Minnesota's two season run at the top of the league to, you know, since its inauguration or since it's an inaugural season rather. I'm not surprised by it, but I thought that maybe mitigating factors were just, we're just going to win out. Nope. It happened again. And I can't say I'm surprised.
- [54:05]
Sean McIndoo
Ensured that we will finally hear the words in professional hockey, a Canadian team has won a championship because we got Montreal, Ottawa, and this is again another reason why this League is just better than the NHL. They let the Canadian teams win every now and then.
- [54:22]
Frankie Corrado
Absolutely. Now they stack the deck in favor of. Of the Canadian teams.
- [54:26]
Sean McIndoo
Clearly. Yep.
- [54:27]
Frankie Corrado
Absolutely.
- [54:28]
Sean McIndoo
And it's. And. And did. Did I read this right? That it's the first time in league history that a. A favorite or at least the higher seed has won the playoff? That's. That's wild.
- [54:42]
Frankie Corrado
We're in playoffs number three. It's the first time a higher seed has won a series. And it's the first time the Minnesota lost one. Period. Crazy. It's all because I'm refilly plan. I saw a sign in the crowd yesterday that said bring Walter home for the Walter Cuff. It was. It was like all.
- [54:57]
Sean McIndoo
All the.
- [54:58]
Frankie Corrado
All the bring Stanley home crap you see with like with the NHL. I do. I. I do appreciate that. Even though I think technically the Walter Homes. The Walter Cuffs home is in Los Angeles because that is where Mark Walter lives. It's fine. But hey, congratulations on that one, you guys. You guys deserve it.
- [55:17]
Sean McIndoo
Pretty excited.
- [55:19]
Frankie Corrado
As I. I say through gritted teeth.
- [55:23]
Sean Gentili
What.
- [55:23]
Frankie Corrado
What's your post this morning? I have not. I have not seen it because I was lining up the show.
- [55:27]
Sean McIndoo
I have got a post. I've made up another fake trophy.
- [55:30]
Frankie Corrado
No.
- [55:31]
Sean McIndoo
Decided that we're doing too much.
- [55:34]
Frankie Corrado
We need a.
- [55:36]
Sean McIndoo
The Con Smythe is great. But your team has to win a bunch of. To win the Con Smite. And I don't think that's fair.
- [55:43]
Frankie Corrado
I think we should reward exclusionary.
- [55:45]
Sean McIndoo
Yeah. And you know, maybe some people might have some punch lines about which team I cheer for and. And that sort of thing. But I. I've invented a fake trophy for the playoff. MVP of the teams that get knocked out in the first round and gone back and. And retroactively.
- [56:03]
Frankie Corrado
Is there one specific name for this trophy or does each team get its own?
- [56:07]
Sean McIndoo
It's the Dennis individual trophy named after the guy who had I think the second best playoff of anyone who. Who lost in the first round that I was able to find back in.
- [56:22]
Frankie Corrado
Interesting six.
- [56:23]
Sean McIndoo
I think he had like 13 points in a five game series. The guy who had the first, third and fourth best who probably should have the trophy named after him unfortunately is Theo Fleury. And I felt like maybe he is.
- [56:36]
Frankie Corrado
He is withdrawn. He has been withdrawn from consideration for all honorifics.
- [56:42]
Sean McIndoo
Maybe we'd skip that one. And we go. We go with. We go with Maruk. So yeah, it's. You can find out if anyone on your favorite team has ever won the coveted Maruk trophy.
- [56:52]
Frankie Corrado
Are you gonna make. Are you gonna make a cuff like is. Is there, is there going to be a trophy that you pass around? Can you. Thanks.
- [57:05]
Sean McIndoo
You know what?
- [57:06]
Frankie Corrado
Damn, that's a nice. That's a nice community set on that.
- [57:09]
Sean McIndoo
I'll see if I can.
- [57:10]
Frankie Corrado
All right, well I'm gonna read that. I'm gonna hang up with you revved up. I'm gonna say goodbye to everybody. Thank you, Frankie. Thank you, Sean McIndoo. Shane and I got the next show that is tomorrow, the 14th of May. Haley's gonna join us ahead of game one of the PH or PWHL final and we have an elimination game tonight as we have potential elimination game tonight as we have outlined. So enjoy that and we'll talk to you real soon.
- [57:39]
Ad Read Announcer 2
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- [57:45]
Frankie Corrado
Wait, we're going on tour?
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Ad Read Announcer 2
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- [57:48]
Sean Gentili
so it's easier to upgrade.
- [57:50]
Frankie Corrado
Let's get in the tour bus and hit the road.
- [57:52]
Ad Read Announcer 2
No, not a tour bus. It's a regular car we use to deliver and set up customers phones at home or work.
- [57:56]
Ad Read Announcer
Are you a groupie on this tour?
- [57:58]
Ad Read Announcer 2
We deliver and set up phones. It's not a tour.
- [58:00]
Sean McIndoo
Oh, you're definitely a groupie.
- [58:02]
Ad Read Announcer 2
Introducing store to door switch and get a new device with expert setup and
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Sean Gentili
delivery wherever you're at.
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Sean McIndoo
Delivery available for select devices purchased@boostmobile.com it's
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Ad Read Announcer
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- [58:37]
Frankie Corrado
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Sean Gentili
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Frankie Corrado
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