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- [00:01]
A
Hear that? It's holiday cheer. Arriving at Ulta Beauty with gifts for everyone on your list. Treat them to fan favorite gift sets from Charlotte Tilbury and Peach and Lily. Go all out with timeless fragrances from ysl, Ariana Grande and Carolina Herrera. And you can never go wrong with an Ulta Beauty gift card. Head to Ulta Beauty for gifts that make the holidays brighter and even more beautiful. Ulta Beauty gifting happens here.
- [00:31]
B
Oh, hey.
- [00:31]
C
Welcome to gift wrapping.
- [00:32]
D
Whoa.
- [00:33]
C
So we saw Donna.
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E
Hey, can you wrap these please?
- [00:35]
D
Wow.
- [00:36]
C
IPhone 17s.
- [00:37]
E
You splurged at T Mobile. You can get four iPhone 17s on them. The new center stage front camera is amazing for group selfies. It's the perfect gift for everyone.
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C
I'm the worst. I only got my mom a robe.
- [00:47]
E
Well, it's better than socks.
- [00:49]
C
So I have to trade in my old phone, right?
- [00:51]
E
No @t mobile. There's no trade ins needed when you switch. Keep your old phone or give it as a gift.
- [00:57]
C
Incredible.
- [00:57]
E
In fact, wrap up my old phone too for my Aunt Rosa.
- [01:00]
D
Forget that.
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E
Aunt Liz will be jealous.
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C
Sounds like my family drama.
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B
Oh, I got it.
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E
I'll give it to my abuela. I'll take reindeer paper with. Hey, where are you going?
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B
To T Mobile.
- [01:08]
C
The holidays are better. AT T Mobile get four iPhone 17s on us. No traded needed when you switch plus four lines for just 25 bucks a line. And now T Mobile is available in US cellular stores with 24 month legal credits and four eligible board inside essentials for well qualified customers bought or pay plus taxes, fees and $35 device connection charge credits and in balance due if you pay off earlier. Cancel Contact Us Finance Agreement 256 gigabytes. $830 required.
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A
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- [02:13]
C
This is the Athletic Hockey Show.
- [02:27]
D
What up? What up? It's the Athletic Hockey show. It is November 19, 2025. I am Sean Gentili and I am joined by two guys who aren't going to finish the game in New York in a couple months. Frankie Corrado and Sean McDou Falls.
- [02:43]
B
Is that a promise? Promise.
- [02:45]
F
I think you left out a Word from the. From the sound bite.
- [02:49]
D
But, you know, I have a list of words we're not allowed to say on this anymore. And it'll shock you that Patrick wa. Last night dropped one of those in his caught on Mike rant after hit by Miko Rant. And, fellas, let's just start there. That seems like that's the thing that everybody's talking about today. Let's. Let's start with the hit itself. It's written in on Romanov. I actually just watched it the first time. I was so taken aback by what was said, so tickled by that I didn't actually watch the hit. So what do we think there?
- [03:28]
B
Are we going to have a conversation on the hit, or are we talking about the code? Because I think there's two things at play here, right? Like, there's the hit that happens, and if we're breaking down the hit. Like, Ranton is not a dirty player. He doesn't have this inclination to run guys from behind. He's a strong, physical guy, but that's not. This is not something that we've seen from Miko Ranton. If someone can post a compilation of Rantanen running guys in the numbers that I am not aware of, go for it. Prove me wrong. But this is an isolated thing by Rantanen. And when you watch the play develop, you can clearly see, like, Mayfield is trying to get his stick into the way of ranting in. So he impedes ranting in a little bit, which rightfully so, like, that's your right to do as a defenseman to a certain degree. You run a little. A little interference, whatever you can get away with. And then their skates collide, and it's the worst spot on the ice. It's like three, four feet away from the boards. Romanov's facing the boards. Ranton is a huge body, so he's kind of. His momentum's taking him into Romanov. It's just a. It's just a bad storm of a hit, really. Like, that's not. That's not. A guy's making a play and you go and truck stick him from behind and. And finish, you know, the. The guy's face into the boards. Now, okay, that's the hit part. But the code, like, we talk about the code on all kinds of things. The coach yelling at the opposing player and saying, you're not going to finish the game, like, that's not cool. Like, coaches don't like that type of stuff. That's. That's kind of crossing the line. Listen, like, I. I have all kinds of time for. For Patrick Wall.
- [05:09]
F
He.
- [05:10]
B
He was very gracious. We call the CHL series his team in Quebec versus Halifax. And he was very gracious with his us before every game. He was awesome to deal with, but I think that's one of those ones. You got to let the players talk about that stuff. Right. You want to talk to Gulletson. Sure. Like, you could talk to the coach, but you can't talk to the players. And I thought the way Gulletson handled it afterwards in the media, just kind of breaking down the hit and how, you know, it was a little bit of an accident, and I thought Gulletson handled it really well. So two things that play. I don't know if you guys disagree on any of that, but that's my kind of first thought on everything that went down last night.
- [05:49]
F
Yeah. And. And we should. We should be clear if anyone listening to this didn't hear the comments or doesn't know the context for. For Patrick Watt. This is Patrick Watt yelling at Miko Rantman as he's leaving the ice. Okay. This isn't like a soundbite after the game or him saying something to the media, but.
- [06:05]
D
And it's.
- [06:06]
F
And it's like he picked up.
- [06:08]
D
Picked up clear as day on a boom mic.
- [06:10]
F
Very clear.
- [06:10]
D
Wasn't like this wasn't like, you know.
- [06:13]
F
You hear because you've got an injured player. Right. It's. The arena's quiet. Like nobody's, you know, really making much noise other than Patrick Wa, who's yelling at him that the next time they play, you're not going to effing finish the game. Which even given that it's heat of the moment, and I'm sure stuff gets said between the benches that we don't hear quite as clearly and everything. The league is not going to like that. Ever since Colorado, Vancouver and Todd Bertuzzi and all of that stuff, the league does. Does not want to hear anything that could sound like a threat or a promise or premeditated.
- [06:55]
B
Bingo. Yeah, it's a great. And.
- [06:57]
F
And remember what that situation was with. With Colorado in Vancouver. That was Mark Crawford, who was. Patrick, was coach in Colorado during all the crazy Detroit stuff. So, I mean, there's a connection there that, you know, I'm sure Patrick Waugh knows that he shouldn't have said it, or at least that he. He is not happy that he got caught saying it. And he knows that phone call is coming. It's probably already happened. And he knows that the next time these Two teams play now. It's going to be a bigger deal for the league. You know, the league I'm sure will send people just like they sent perils to the, the Panthers Lightning game. They'll, they'll do that whole thing and, and warn everyone and make sure that, that nothing comes of it. Because you, you just can't have a situation where something happens and instead of being a spur of the moment, oh, this just happened on the ice, it becomes premeditated. The coach, you know, told me to do it. The coach gave me the go ahead. So that's going to be a problem for Patrick Wan, the Islanders to the. It'll be a fine or it'll be something and it'll make it much harder for them to do anything down the line if, if they were even inclined to do it. I tend to agree with you, Frankie, on the hit. I think they sort of clip skates and it was a more of an unfortunate situation than, than anything. But it was five minutes and they did review it.
- [08:25]
B
Yeah.
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F
And they stuck with the five minutes. So I don't know, do we think suspension coming?
- [08:31]
B
I don't think so. I don't think so. Because the five minute major is probably the fitting punishment where you could look at it and say time served, like he did it Right.
- [08:42]
F
And the league kind of looks at that as like almost a one game suspension of its own. We've seen that in the past from them.
- [08:49]
B
Yeah. And these, the, these two teams play against on March 26th.
- [08:54]
D
March 26th, yeah, that's when they play. I mean we've all had these conversations in one way or another. Like I used to talk to someone with the department of player safety when hits were an even bigger problem. Dirty hits were a bigger problem. We were talking about suspensions and whatever else every other game it felt like. And something that always stuck with me that this person said over and over and over again is like some dirty hits are just penalties. Like that's, that you gotta, you gotta remember that like that's what the majors for. Like sometimes, sometimes stuff can be dirty and it can be a hit that you don't want without rising to the level of, you know, get this guy out for, for three or four. My, my, my question, Frank, this is probably more for you is, is there any chance that when was doing video or whatever, he looks at that and says like okay, actually it wasn't, you know, Mayfield, Mayfield got, got his, got his stick out a little bit. Like maybe it goes and goes. The guys like, you know what never Never mind. Don't injure this guy. On. On March 26, it actually wasn't as bad as I thought.
- [10:07]
B
There's. There's probably some people and some coaches that would look at that and say, yeah, okay, maybe I was a little off.
- [10:14]
D
I overreacted a little bit. Right. Something tells me that's not in the cards.
- [10:19]
B
I don't know if that's the. The guy who's gonna say that. Right. Like, he has been, if anything, throughout his entire playing and coaching career, staunch in his opinion on how he views things for better or worse. Obviously made him incredibly successful as a goaltender and has had a lot of success as a. As a coach now at the junior level, at the NHL level. So, no, I don'. I think he could watch it 100 times over. And I'm just purely speculating. Like, I have no. No inside knowledge, but it just strikes me as the type of guy that's watching.
- [10:53]
D
Why didn't. I didn't call you last night? It didn't text you? Like, hey, I checked. I'm sure it's actually not that bad.
- [10:59]
B
Like, everyone else is wrong and I'm right. But here's. Here's my other question. Okay. Like, okay, a coach throws out. Let's call it a promise. Let's not call it a threat. Let's just call it a coach throws out, a promise to a player that he's not going to finish the game.
- [11:14]
D
It's about the implic. As Dennis Ren once said. Yes.
- [11:17]
B
So if you go through the Islanders roster right now, and by the way, the Islanders have done an unbelievable job this year standing up for Matthew Schaefer. Like, any time something has happened to him, specifically, it's everyone in. And let's just pack mentality it. Right? No one has to feel like they're an underdog or outgunned or whatever. But this is different. This is like, if you're talking about Miko Ranton, he's 6 foot 4, 225 pounds. Like, he's. He's a force. And you're going to see, okay, trying to envision how he doesn't finish this game, which is crazy to talk about it the way we're talking about it. Who's doing that? I'm looking at their roster right now. Like, who.
- [11:56]
F
Who.
- [11:56]
B
Who is it? Like, is Matt.
- [11:58]
F
It might be Patrick Wa. He might be the guy.
- [12:00]
B
Yeah, it would be. It would be Patrick number one and number two would be if Matt Martin potentially came out of retirement. I'm not even convinced that would. Would get it done. Like no one's doing it.
- [12:11]
D
So listen, emotions spike is drink at intermission.
- [12:15]
B
Yeah, like emotions. Emotions run high heat of the moment. Right? Like that's, That's. That. That's been wa. Forever. Very fired up. But I think when. When it all. When. When everything kind of blows over, maybe his opinion of the hit won't change, Sean, but his reaction to it afterwards, I'm sure he would probably say that that was a little too far.
- [12:40]
F
And, And, And I, you know, it's. It's two teams. They're not in the same conference, so you're right. They don't play again for four months. This might be a very different situation if it was a home and home. If this was like the Rangers and the Islanders at the old school Patrick Division, home and home series where you'd be worried that. That tempers are still going to be hot. But I got to say this. You guys maybe saw me perk up a few minutes ago because I knew I'd seen somewhere. They don't play for four months. They don't play till March. Okay. You know, that's the way the schedule works. But Frankie, you. You said it, and I just double checked it. You're right. March 26th. March 26th. Does this date mean anything to anyone? I know it means a lot to some fans in Colorado and Detroit. March 26, famously, that's fight night at the Joe. And who was in the middle of that? I seemed like there was Claude the mew and Darren McCarty and there was some crazy goaltender who went nuts that Patrick Waugh. You telling me Patrick was not looking at the calendar and seeing March 26th and just twitching a little bit about payback and. Because I'll tell you, you know who didn't finish the game that night was Claude Lemieux. So the game has changed a lot in 29 years, which is what we're talking about. It's changed a lot for the better, I'll say it. But yeah, I love that it's Patrick wa. In the middle of this. I don't know if this is the hockey gods messing with us or what it is. But yeah, good old Patrick, he's gonna.
- [14:11]
B
He.
- [14:11]
F
He's. He's gonna. I'm. He. I'm sure hear about it a little bit the next few days. And then in the lead up to that game, maybe hide the calendars from Patty squad just.
- [14:22]
B
Do you remember. Do you guys remember that old clip from. I think it was a high school football player. It went viral where he was Talking about how you guys had us in the first half, right?
- [14:32]
F
Not going to lie. Yep.
- [14:33]
B
Not going to lie, Sean. You had me in the first half just there. Because when you start talking about March 26th, and you're like, do you guys know what March 26th, this? And I'm like, yeah, it's my birthday. Like, why is my birthday.
- [14:47]
F
Wow. All right, what the hell?
- [14:50]
B
And then you start talking about fight night. Like, oh, okay, never mind. But, yeah, you had me in the first half. Not going to lie.
- [14:57]
D
Okay, who's going to be in the building for that one? This is going to be full, like, lumberjack match. Like, old school WWF mode, where there's people. Like, it's going to be paros. It's going to be whoever. Whoever else. It's going to be a bit. The box will be full with the league on March 20th. A real, real short drive. You can just take. Take one of the town cars over from the league office to Elmont.
- [15:21]
F
It's so funny when they do that, right? Like, I mean, we. We all had, like, the day as kids where, you know, maybe there was a substitute teacher and everybody was being a little rowdy, and so, like, the vice principal had to come and sit in the back of the room with their arms crossed so that everybody would settle down. But I'm trying to imagine the scenario where some hockey player is like, man, I watched my teammate get taken out on a stretcher. I watched my teammate go to the hospital. I watched all this. I am going to. Oh, Gary Bettman's up there. Okay, I won't do anything.
- [15:49]
D
Gets laughs. Gets last in the building.
- [15:51]
B
Oh, no.
- [15:52]
F
Oh, no. He's giving me a bad look. I don't know about that. I don't. The one guy is. Maybe Pronger. Pronger might do it. If Pronger just stands up and cracks his knuckles, I could see that settling everybody down.
- [16:02]
B
He's the one guy, but he's got a big presence. Like, Pronger walks in the room, you feel like he's in the room. We called a game in in St. Louis last year, and I guess he was doing some of the intermission work, and he walked into the media area upstairs, and you're like, holy. Like, that's. That's Pronger, right? He. He walks in and you notice. But you know what else you pay attention for? And I know it's a long way down the road, but the officiating, like, deployment for that night, if for some reason that was a night where it might have been a younger referee, like, there's a few young guys that are kind of getting started now and getting their feet wet. I think that's one of those ones where you go 1500 games right across the board and say, like, you know, if there was someone else scheduled to do that game, then, sorry, we're going to go with a veteran crew, because who knows what could happen? I think you just have to. When. When stuff like that gets caught on camera and. And you can hear the audio of it, and it's very evident you have no choice, really, if you're the league, because you're negligent, if you don't take the appropriate precautions because you kind of got your warning shot right now, that something could happen, and it's in your.
- [17:09]
F
Try and mitigate it with Bertuzzi, right? And Steve Moore, the lawsuits and all of this stuff. So it really is. It really does matter. By the way, that game in four months, March 26, is in New York, and that does tend to matter who's got the home ice? And, you know, so now you got to worry about the fans, too. And what's that situation gonna be like? My gut tells me four months from now, this is not gonna feel like a thing. That four months from now, about a few. A few days before the game, somebody will point it out and be like, hey, remember? And we'll go, oh, yeah, that's right. That was a thing. And. And then nothing. Nothing will end up happening. But the. The league is going to make sure that nothing happens by doing all the stuff that. That we've talked about, because you had. Patrick was saying what he said.
- [17:55]
B
And one. One other thing before. I know we got to go to break, but one quick one, like, we. We kind of went through the Islanders and looked at their roster and said, well, who's going to be the guy? Like, if this was something that were to happen, who would be the guy? I'm kind of happy the Islanders don't have. Like, they used to have Ross Johnston, right? Like, boss. I'm happy they don't have a guy like that on their roster right now for that guy. Because if there was a single dude that you're like, that guy's a heavy, right? Like, pick your guys. Whether it's the lawyer or. Or Johnston or Olivier, like, now that guy's got to live, like, yeah, exactly, though. That guy has to live the next four months kind of wondering, like, do I have to take out ranting or something four months from now and, like, kind of deal with the stress and the anxiety that comes with that it's not an easy job as it is. Like, knowing that on any given night, you have to take punches and fight. Like, guys lose a lot of sleep over that. Like, four months is different than four days, and that would be a long time for, like, that one guy to think about. Man, what the hell does that night hold in store for me?
- [18:59]
D
There was actual hockey played in that game, by the way. The Islanders beat Dallas 3, 2. I wanted to mention Matthew Schaefer because I feel like we're on highlight watch for him every game at this point. Like, he's esthetically just such a. Such a fun guy to watch. In addition, you know, to the substance and overall really solid play, he had one of the sicker, you know, almost goals you'll see from a rookie defenseman. I think that's fair to say. He went behind his. Behind his back and through his legs to kind of get outside and. And put a shot on Dallas. I mean, he's. He's the best rookie in the league. He's been One of the 10 best defensemen, insanely enough. If. If you look at pretty much anything, what, like, do you guys. Frankie, what's your. What's your takeaway on him after, you know, a quarter's worth of. Of the season? Because he's really. Man, he's out. He's. He's out kicking coverage and out shooting expectations. I. I feel like he's just so fun to watch. That's.
- [20:02]
B
It's. It's crazy. It's amazing how fearless he is like that. That's the biggest thing. Like, young defenseman, you're not supposed to be able to do the types of things that he does, you're almost just worried about surviving at this point in the league. But the fact that he skates so incredibly well and you almost get. You almost get mesmerized by his feet, like, if you're watching him, but also, I guess if you're playing against him, like, the. The little subtleties and the way he moves around it, it's. It's wild what he's able to do. He just plays fearless, right? Like, not. Not loose in the sense that it's. It's reckless or careless, but he's not necessarily afraid of what consequences are if you turn over a puck or if you were to turn over a puck, because he knows he can recover and he can get back, and a lot of times he's the first player back. It's pretty cool, man. Like, yeah, I agree with you. Not only is he the best rookie. He's been one of the best defenseman stories in the NHL and he's not even 20 years old. It's pretty remarkable what he's able to do. Like, he's. We, I think the last couple of years we've kind of talked about how Cale McCarr and Quinn Hughes are in like that category of their own. And then everyone else just kind of, you know, Warrenski gets up there, Adam Fox gets up. Like, take your pick of guys that kind of push up there. Like, this is probably a guy that's going to be in that top tier for a long time now. And the Islanders just have been starving for a high end elite player like this who's flashy in all the right ways. But yeah, it's remarkable.
- [21:34]
D
I said that to Chris Branch, who does the Pulse newsletter, which I'm sure everyone watching this or listening to this subscribes to. It's. It's great. The second best newsletter at the Athletic.
- [21:46]
B
Thank you.
- [21:46]
F
Thank you.
- [21:47]
D
Yes, you're welcome. You're welcome. Contractually obligated to. To phrase it that way, but Branch asked yesterday specifically about some young guys, including one that we're going to talk about in segment two. But he asked about Schaefer as well. And what I told Branch was like, I feel like we're starting to watch defensemen and this is going to make us, all three of us feel ancient. We're starting to watch the generation of players that grew up watching Kilmokar. This is, I feel like this is part of what you get. You know, if you're Matthew Schaefer and you have that level of talent and you've been watching Kale Makara mixtapes for the last six years, that this feels like some kind of evolutionary step there where McCarthy is doing stuff that you can't teach and all that. But now it feels like we're getting closer to maybe seeing guys that watch the kind of stuff that he does in and incorporates it into their game. Right.
- [22:41]
F
Am I off Kale Makar and Kale Makar and Quinn Hughes were the guys who grew up watching Frankie Corrado. So it all comes back.
- [22:49]
D
Hell yes. Hell yes.
- [22:51]
B
I was just gonna say, like, if I look back at my, my experience, I was watching Drew Doughty on YouTube and I was watching like PK Suban on YouTube and so, okay, those guys were in the league, what, 2009, 2010? I was drafted in 2011. So yeah, man. And we're not that far away from the, the 12, 13 year olds who are playing now telling us. Yeah, I used to watch Matthew Schaefer highlights. Like we're not that far away from that either. So you deal with that.
- [23:24]
F
I'm done with that sound bite from. From somebody. I'm out.
- [23:31]
D
I gotta take a breather after that one. Too old.
- [23:33]
B
We're old.
- [23:34]
D
Segment two. We're gonna talk about some other young guys. I think you folks might have heard two say youngish forwards had big nights last night. We're gonna talk about that after the break.
- [23:51]
A
Hear that? It's holiday cheer. Arriving at Ulta Beauty with gifts for everyone on your list. Treat them to fan favorite gift sets from Charlotte Tilbury and Peach and Lily. Go all out with timeless fragrances from ysl, Ariana Grande and Carolina Herrera. And you can never go wrong with an Ulta Beauty gift card. Head to Ulta Beauty for gifts that make the holidays brighter and even more beautiful. Ulta Beauty gifting happens here.
- [24:20]
B
Oh, hey.
- [24:21]
C
Welcome to gift wrapping.
- [24:22]
D
Whoa.
- [24:22]
C
So is Saldana.
- [24:23]
E
Hey, can you wrap these please?
- [24:25]
D
Wow.
- [24:26]
C
IPhone 17.
- [24:26]
E
So you splurged at T Mobile. You can get four iPhone 17s on them. The new center stage front camera is amazing for group selfies. It's the perfect gift for everyone.
- [24:35]
C
I'm the worst. I only got my mom a robe.
- [24:37]
E
Well, it's better than socks.
- [24:39]
C
So I have to trade in my old phone, right?
- [24:41]
E
No AT T Mobile. There's no trade ins needed when you switch. Keep your old phone or give it as a gift.
- [24:46]
C
Incredible.
- [24:47]
E
In fact, wrap up my old phone too for my aunt Rosa.
- [24:50]
D
Forget that.
- [24:50]
E
Aunt Liz will be jealous.
- [24:52]
C
Sounds like my family drama.
- [24:53]
E
Oh, I got it. I'll give it to my abuela. I'll take reindeer paper with. Hey, where are you going?
- [24:58]
C
The holidays are better AT T Mobile get four iPhone 17s on us. No trade in needed when you switch plus four lines for just 25 bucks a line. And now T Mobile is available in US cellular stores with 24 month legal credits and four eligible board ins on essentials for well qualified customers. Photo pay/taxes fees and 35 device connection charge credits and imbalance due if you pay off earlier. Cancel Contact us finance a Griben 256 gig. $830 required visit t mobile.com hi, I'm.
- [25:21]
G
Darina, co founder of Quo. You might know us as OpenPhone. My dad is a business owner and growing up he always kept his ringtone super loud so he'd never miss a customer call. That stuck with me. When we started quo, our mission was to help businesses not just stay in touch, but make every customer feel valued, no matter when they might call. Quo Gives your team business phone numbers to call and text on your phone or computer. Your calls, messages, and contacts live in one workspace so your team can stay fully aligned and reply faster. And with our AI agent answering 24. Seven, you'll really never miss a customer. Over 90,000 businesses use Quo. Get 20% off@quo.com tech. That's Q-U-O.com tech and we can port your existing numbers over for free. Quo no missed calls, no missed customers.
- [26:19]
D
All right, we're back, fellas. I feel like at some points, we're going to get sick of talking about Macklin Celebrini and Connor Bedard and what have you. It's gonna happen. It's just human nature. It's gonna be March, maybe March 26, and we're gonna be tired of talking about how good these guys have been. But I'm not there yet. Last night was another pretty big signpost for them. Both of them had hat tricks. It was the second day in NHL history to feature multiple hat tricks by players age 20 or younger. When. When was the first, by the way?
- [26:52]
B
Is that not said in obi?
- [26:53]
F
No, I, I. Well, I, I only know this because I, I saw it on Twitter and I swear.
- [26:58]
D
And I put in the rundown, sean.
- [27:00]
F
If you ask me, I'm not gonna do it. All right?
- [27:03]
D
I didn't do it.
- [27:04]
F
But it was like 1940s, right? And it was both. It was two players on the Leafs.
- [27:09]
D
It was.
- [27:09]
F
What. What was the year?
- [27:12]
D
February 19, 1944 is the last time this happened.
- [27:15]
F
So that's it. And that's even. Not that it doesn't count, but that's like World War II times where the rosters were very thin because of that. So that's probably why you had two teenagers doing it for the same team. But, yeah, that's. That's pretty amazing. And the. The Jack.
- [27:31]
D
Shout out to Jack Hamilton and Bud Poyle, who were the last two guys to do it. You've been. You've been.
- [27:38]
F
There you go. All right.
- [27:41]
D
Celebrini has 30 points now. He's the fourth teenager in history to do that. Fourth. And I think you guys. You guys can guess the other three. Who are the other three teenagers?
- [27:51]
F
I have. I have a thing that I reference, which is called the stat spoiler, which is that anytime you get one of these in, in hockey, like, only X guys have done it, and you perk up, and then there's always one name that kind of ruins it. Where they're like, this guy, this guy, this guy. And then they mentioned, like, Miroslav Freecher did it. You're like, what? There's no stat spoiler on this.
- [28:14]
B
I'm a stat spoiler. I'm. I'm literally that guy. I think, like, you know, like, make NHL debut at 20 years old. Who was the. And it's like, oh, Kevin, you were.
- [28:23]
F
Yeah, that's right.
- [28:24]
B
That guy. And you're like this bum that no one's ever heard of. I'm stat spoiler guy. So who is it? It's got to be cross.
- [28:31]
D
Frank. Come on.
- [28:32]
B
I know, I know. Crosby, Ovechkin.
- [28:37]
F
Crosby, Gretzky, Lemieux.
- [28:41]
D
And that's it.
- [28:42]
F
Which is. That is all absolutely wild. That's crazy. That's stunning. They. They. Crosby and Lemieux, once. Gretzky did it twice, by the way, just to show you what, like, intellectual level I'm working at today. I saw that and I was like, wow, it's crazy. Gretzky only did it twice. And then it took about five seconds before my other brain cell kick him was like, you idiot. Like, what was he playing when he was 14? Like, how many times is he supposed to.
- [29:08]
D
How many times is it. How many times can you possibly. Does the. Does the Indianapolis stuff count?
- [29:12]
F
I don't think so. It wouldn't know. It's an NHL record. So it's. It's. But I mean, this is. This is crazy stuff because this is 20 games, right? This is not, you know, not one game. Okay, that's. That's impressive on it in its own right, but, you know, we've seen guys have weird one game blips. Like the Sam G effect kicks in sometimes. You're talking about.
- [29:35]
D
Stops us from. That's what stops us from being a fake stat, you know?
- [29:39]
F
Yeah, It's a long 30 points. And it's not. And. And that's. Those are nice round numbers, too. This isn't like, you know, the. Here's the guys in 17 games have had four block shots and this and that. And they, you know, they list nine things and. And it's like, okay, this is a real stat. And this is really impressive, especially when you look at the names that are not on that list. Frankie Said, Ovechkin, right? There's no McDavid, where. There's no, you know, McKinnon, Matthews. Go down the list of guys you think of as great players. This is the real deal. And this is. This. That's good company. I'm just going to go on the record and say when you're in a. When you're on a Mount Rushmore with Gretzky, Mario and, and Sid. Yeah, pretty, pretty good.
- [30:26]
B
It's, it's crazy too, because yes, they're having a lot of success. These guys are both playing over 20 minutes a night. Like, it's not like, it's not like they're just riding heaters either. It's not like, ah, it's just like a little bit of a short sample size. Like, no, Connor Bedard has arrived, man, like Macklin. Celebrini was unbelievable last year too. But there's always, it feels like. Not always, but it feels like there's that, that sophomore slump. There's a reason why we people have coined that term over the years. That is not the case for him. And both these guys with the amount that they're playing on teams that, you know, coming into the season were not supposed to be good teams. Now Chicago is exceeding all expectations. San Jose is definitely playing better than a lot of us thought. Like, who would have thought they would be above.500 at this point in the season with, with both of those rosters? It's, it's remarkable. And now you look at the, the leaders in scoring in the NHL and if you're Canadian, you're pretty happy seeing the names that are there. McKinnon, Celebrini, McDavid, Bedard, Scheifele. Top five Canadian. You're like, I'll take that. Like the next wave of Canadian superstars have, have arrived and they're taking the jump. And like, I'll just pose the question to you guys, like, if, if both these guys don't make the team. So let's just say one of them makes the team for, for Team Canada at the Olympics. Did the other one even have a shot? Like, if Celebrini makes the team and Bedard doesn't make it, you can honestly say, well, he just had no shot anyways because there's literally nothing he could have done to put himself on that team. Given, given the start to the season that he's had 13 goals, 29 points, playing 20 minutes a night team successful. What am I missing there?
- [32:13]
F
If they're not both on the team, it's because the 200 hockey men putting this team together were not going to bring two young forwards and that's, that's the end of it. And they were competing with each other for the, for the one spot that was even available, no matter how well they did. You're exactly right. But I think at this point, I think we're getting pretty close to, you know, what these two are in, and you just got to figure it out because at some point, we know how these tournaments go. You're going to be locked in a game and maybe it's not against Team usa. Might be Finland, it might be Latvia. Who knows who you're playing and what goal. It gets hot. But you're going to be one goal away and you're going to be looking down the bench going, do we need the checking line? Do we need the grinders? Or should we maybe have brought the most dynamic offensive players in the league that are sitting at home because they were too young and maybe they might make a mistake at some point? We'll see. And John Cooper gets a big say in this. What's his comfort level with playing guys like this? But I think the best way to do this, maybe the only way to do it in terms of getting both guys on, is they have to just kick down the door and leave no doubt. And they're doing it right now.
- [33:28]
B
Yeah. Don't you think they've done it? They've so far done it.
- [33:31]
F
Yep.
- [33:31]
B
There's. There's no way they haven't.
- [33:34]
D
I'm. I'm interested to see what happens with Scheifele. I feel like he's the bubble guy who could maybe push off Bedard. Because, Frank, you went through that list. It was the top five. Four. Four young guys slash superstars. And then number five was who? It's Mark Scheifele. I'm wondering if he's going to be the guy who's on the bubble or at least was, you know, at least was recently. And you. You saw him last night?
- [33:57]
B
Like, yeah.
- [33:58]
D
What is.
- [33:58]
B
I was doing that game. Yeah. I was doing the Jets Blue Jackets intermissions last night. And listen, Mike, Mark Scheifele has had a great season. I think there's. Last year, it really felt like he took the 200 foot game to another level by his standards anyways, like, really seriously. And his line has been very consistent. Like, he's a big reason why that line kind of drives forward. I'm. I kind of look at this roster though, Sean, and I'm like, give me someone who's the best at what they do. Right? So, like right now, Connor Bedard is one of the best at scoring goals and I can't help but wonder, like, if you are thinking Connor McDavid is the best playmaker, do I want to put the best playmaker with the best goal scorer? Who's got the best release of his shot, Left handed shot.
- [34:54]
D
Shouldn't. All those goals he's scoring, all those goals he's scoring from the slot. Specifically that one last night. Like that. That puts him on it should, that puts him on my. Like last night I feel like was a tipping point for me personally.
- [35:10]
B
Yeah. Doesn't it start to percolate in your head a little bit? You're like best playmaker left handed shot. Best shot, release right handed shot. And I can have them working in unison together and I'm going to pass on it for what? Why, why would I, why would I do that? I don't know. I would be so curious to see how that looks.
- [35:27]
F
But we know how these decisions get made, right? Like, I mean you look at Team USA leaving Tage Thompson at home for four nations, scratching Kyle Conner in a gold medal game so that Brock Nelson can, can take a shift because he's the grizzled guy who knows how to play the right way. Different country obviously, but the same, same sort of thought process. I would just put it this way, like Sean, you're, you're sitting down there in the States with your Team usa, you know, your flag and your pen and your jersey and all that. You watch the games. Who, who are, who do you not want to see when that lineup comes out? Who are you sitting there going, you know, boy, I'm, I'm really worried. Are you worried about Macklin Celebrini and Connor Bedard or are you sitting there going, I'm really worried about Sam Bennett anchoring that, you know, third or fourth line, right? It's Bedard that you're scared of. It's celebrating that you're scared of. And something to be said with celebrating the guys you would hope you, you would hope but honestly like it one bad turnover that we all just jump on and talk about for a couple of days can, can knock them right down the list. And it's, and look it is Team Canada. It's tough. There's a lot of guys making strong cases to be on that team. But I think you just, you got to take those two guys and that's even before you think ahead to down the line and go, let's get these guys some experience because four years from now there's not going to be a debate. Four years from now it's going to be these guys are going to be the key players on that team. So let's get him the experience now. Let's get them, get them in there and you Don't. You don't have to necessarily play them on the first line. You don't have to play them 20 minutes a night and in fact, you don't even have to play them at all because it is the expanded roster. There's some extra forwards and room that you've got. But get them there, let them have the experience so that four years from now when it's their team, they're ready to go.
- [37:26]
D
I've spent the last week checking in with, with some folks, some, some hockey men to write the obligatory, you know, what are we watching from Bedard and Celebrini and Leo Carlson to, to some extent I would be shocked if Celebrity wasn't on the roster because I think what he's done, not just this year but, but this past season, I think he already has the rep of being a 200, like pick your, pick your cliche, pick your, you pick your, you know, Your, your descriptor 200 foot player, incredibly high compete like next level competitive, you know, competitive ability that's gonna allow him, if they need to, to play him farther down the lineup. I think that's what's gonna win out with Celebrini is that he has that body of work and he certainly has that reputation, you know, among people with the mindset that you see from, from the team Canada brass that they're going to be able to say, you know, he can plan a third line or he can plan a fourth line or he can plan a second line, like just we can, we can do what we want with it with this kid. I think there was some degree, and granted this is before last night, but there was some, there is still some degree of trepidation with Bedard where it's like, if he's not in the top six, like what do you do with them? And I think, do I think that's right? I don't. I think you keep him, at minimum, you keep him as a spare and you play him in a couple games and you can say like, you know, we have Connor Bedard to play on the second line if we want. But I, I think where we're at now, based on some conversations I've had, I, I think Celebrity, I would be truly, truly shocked if, if he wasn't on the roster. Bedard maybe still has some work to do, but it's not going to take much. Like you guys said, you know, there's going to be these moments from now until the selection until selection day where we're going to see where you're Going to see stuff and you're like, what. What else? What else is there? What more do we have to see? Like, I'm, I'm sold. And I think those moments are happening, especially with Bedard in. In quick succession.
- [39:34]
B
I also wonder if, if you're selecting Team Canada, you got to look at this two ways, right? We talked about the goaltending position and maybe the uncertainty around who would be the other goalies behind Bennington. We know Bennington's going, and hopefully, like, I'm, I'm probably more confident than others that he'll find his game once. Once we get closer to it. But let's just say that Canada has got a question mark as far as what they're getting in that when they get to that tournament, does Canada look at it and say, okay, do we need to just really button this thing up defensively and go with more of, like a defensive roster because we want to help out, you know, the goaltending position as much as possible, or do they look at it and say, the goals are. Goals could go in. We need to be able to score five in a game, which, which, okay, that seems extreme, but, like, that's. That's the way you're looking at it. We could win a shootout type game if we had to. And that leads us to bringing a little more firepower. I'd be curious to hear how they handle that conversation, because if you really dumb it down, like, if you really want to dumb down your team, then I, I believe you run the risk of what Team Canada has done at the World Juniors the past couple of years. Way too into role definition, which is fine to have role definition, don't get me wrong. But a little too much into it and you leave too much firepower at home and on the table. And then when you need one, you're screwed. And that's the end of your tournament. And it doesn't take much for that to happen, as we saw. Like, junior level is a little different than NHL level, of course, but that's what would. Would concern me if they're looking at it saying, let's just bring the most lock it down team we could possibly have, but we forgot to bring the scoring as well. Yeah, that's.
- [41:24]
F
That's the dreaded ghost roster approach right from way back in 98 that got Rob Zamner on the team instead of Mark Messier because they decided we need a checking winger who can kill penalties. Who's the best guy in the league? Oh, Rob Zamner is that guy.
- [41:39]
B
All right.
- [41:40]
F
We bring him and the difference. And I think the evolution in that thinking has been the realization that, all right, you need a checking winger who can kill penalties. Guess what? Mitch Marner might have 100 points, but on this team, he could be that guy or somebody else can move down and be that guy because they're so skilled and they're so good. Now, can a 19 year old or a 20 year old do that? That's the question. And you're right, Frankie, like it's. It's the big question. I just feel like we know what the answer is going to be from the sort of people who make these teams, which is going to be, let's lock it down. I don't think they're going to build a team that's designed to beat the the United States 5 to 4. I think they're going to want to win 2 to 1. I think they're going to look back at that 2010 or the 2014 team where nobody could get a sniff and it was just one. Nothing wins. And you know what? It was boring. Nobody remembers anything that happened in that tournament other than Canada won the gold medal and everybody was happy. They might be looking at it the same way, going, you know what? We don't have to entertain anyone. We've got to just lock it down and everybody will like that. And your crusty uncle will think that's the right way to play. Right up until there's five minutes left in a gold medal game against the United states and it's 2 to 1 for Team USA and you're looking down the bench going, I don't think Anthony Ciarelli is a guy we want to be throwing out there.
- [43:09]
D
I was waiting for him to take some shrapnel. I knew Sorelli's name was going to come up unfair. Frankie, where you at the rest of the week, bud?
- [43:17]
B
Oh, buddy, I got. I got your team tomorrow. I got the Washington Capitals in Montreal. We got them coming to town, so get a good look at them.
- [43:26]
D
What games are we watching tonight? We got Oilers caps. We got flame savers. We can scratch that one off the list. Canes, Kane's wild with number with first line. Wild center Danila Yurov. As I read Michael Russo writing this morning, Bruins ducks in the 10pm slot.
- [43:44]
B
I'll watch that. I'll watch Ducks any chance I get, man.
- [43:48]
F
They are.
- [43:48]
B
They are entertaining regardless. And I'll watch the caps because I got to know what's going on for. For tomorrow's game. Back to back Jacks Simple. Yeah.
- [43:57]
D
127 days till your birthday. By the way, Frankie. Oh, producer Jeff has let us know. 127 days until Frankie Cradle's birthday.
- [44:05]
F
And Frankie, I'm not saying waited. I'm not saying it's going to be a big party, but I don't think you're making it to the end of that.
- [44:13]
D
Love it. Take it easy, bud. Talk to you next week.
- [44:15]
B
All right, boys, see you later.
- [44:22]
D
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- [45:57]
D
Just me and McIndoor, my friend. We've learned things this week, have we not?
- [46:01]
F
I have. I learned two things this week, actually.
- [46:04]
C
What have we learned, Sean?
- [46:05]
F
Twice as much as I normally learn.
- [46:08]
D
And the first one this afternoon.
- [46:10]
F
Man, I'm just going to tease this. I learned something this week about the NHL standings that I think, I honestly think I have discovered a new immutable law of the hockey universe. And it's important and it's going to have a big effect potentially on two teams. And you're going to see that probably on Friday from me. So that's the tease for what?
- [46:37]
D
That is a classic DGV tease.
- [46:39]
F
Now the other thing that I'll talk about is I was watching some highlights of the Rangers and the Golden Knights last night. And what I learned is that Rangers captain J.T. miller, who loves to yell at people and talk about effort and all that stuff, he's got to really sit down and have a heart to heart with Rangers player J.T. miller about the lack of effort on one goal in particular, where he just, you know, it's. It's the old unplug controller meme. Remember the Ovechkin one that we all, like, just absolutely ripped them for for years and years and years, way back when.
- [47:20]
D
That's been stuck in my brain for like 15 years now, or however long it's been. Yes.
- [47:25]
F
Yeah. Because it was so obvious. If you haven't seen it, J.T. miller had one last night that was almost as bad. And this was on the. I think it was the second Golden Knights gold, like the 2 nothing goal in the second period. So this wasn't like, hey, it's 7 to 2 and we're losing and there's no time left, so who cares? Which would not be. You would not excuse that. But maybe in the context you might understand it. No, this is just J.T. miller just kind of going, ah, you know what? I'll let somebody else handle this. And not a good look for anybody. Definitely not a good look for a captain. And definitely, definitely not a good look for a captain in a big market who loves to go in front of cameras and talk about how everyone else's effort isn't good enough enough and everyone else isn't working hard enough. And, boy, he might have to look in the mirror. And he'd probably prefer looking at the mirror to looking at that footage when it comes out. In the tape breakdown, we get someone.
- [48:22]
D
Ask Elias Pedersen about that play today.
- [48:24]
F
Yeah, I wonder if he'd have anything that you might want to say something.
- [48:28]
D
Something tells me he's got. He's got an opinion on it. I learned a wonderful bit of news from Peter Baugh a couple days ago. Everyone lost their mind over the Red Wings versus the Rangers. A few days back on Sunday, it was a red jersey versus a blue jersey. That's something we've seen in just such short supply over the years. It was a thing to a degree that I didn't realize until Monday morning when I opened up my, you know, for you page, and it was just people losing their marbles over it. Pete was on it and he got an NHL spokesperson to say basically that they're encouraging more teams to do this. That's a big. That's a big bit of breaking news there because it's one of those things, man. I know you and I have talked about this at one time or another. There's no reason why this shouldn't happen. We love to see the color flood, and I know you know, it's unfair to make assumptions about every single fan watching NHL hockey in 2025, but I think it's fair to say that there aren't many that are doing it on black and white televisions.
- [49:35]
F
Probably not.
- [49:35]
D
So not a ton.
- [49:37]
F
I feel like Lou lamarillo, and that's.
- [49:40]
D
Maybe lamarillo got the rabbit ears up, even though those don't even work anymore. So we can, we can look forward to this, I think is. Is the big takeaway. Like, the league's encouraging it. It takes some amount of effort. Like, you got to get equipment managers and the broadcasters to sign off on it, which is all well and good. Certainly not going to do it if you want to have whatever the Predators in yellow versus the Penguins in yellow. Like, I don't know why you'd want that in the first place, but it does feel like it's one of those things that thankfully we're going to see more of and people don't have to, you know, whenever it does happen, they don't have to feel sad that it doesn't happen more, more frequently. So it's good news.
- [50:25]
F
You know, the, the most famous example of this in, In. In this era was the big house game between the Leafs and the Red Wings, where again, you had the. The blue and the red, and everybody loved it. And to their credit, the NHL saw that, they heard their fans, and they said at some point in the next dozen years or so, see, in 15 years, everybody, we will get around to making this incredibly simple change. And yeah, that's. And yeah, it makes life a little tougher on the equipment managers, but that's okay because the equipment managers don't vote on this stuff. It's the GMs who decide everything. So as long as it doesn't make a GM's life tougher, then it's going to be completely fine. But I look forward to hearing about why this is actually way more complicated than us fans realize. And maybe it can actually be done.
- [51:18]
D
Folks, if you ever see something cool happening in the league, just remember, you got to ask yourself, what does this mean for the general managers? How do the GMs feel about this? Because that's what matters more than somebody.
- [51:33]
F
Think of the GMs.
- [51:36]
D
McIntyre, what's up? Okay, so you got your Friday post up.
- [51:41]
F
Yeah, that's it. And I've got a post that is is probably out now. I didn't even check, but I decided to rank every single time the Toronto Maple Leafs have ever traded away their own first round pick. And it turns out we're there.
- [51:59]
D
We're at that point in the season already. Good.
- [52:01]
F
Well, it felt, yeah, it felt timely and it ended up as with many things like this that I tried to do, it ended up being a longer list than I thought and probably a much longer list than my editors thought they were getting when I pitched them the idea. But how's this? How's this?
- [52:17]
D
7,500 words long?
- [52:19]
F
That's about right.
- [52:20]
D
Yeah. Hey, they won last night. We made it through a whole show without talking about them in any kind of substance. Big fan of that.
- [52:27]
F
Good for us.
- [52:29]
D
Keep it up. Next week, start the streak at two.
- [52:31]
F
That's one of our words that you're not allowed to say anymore on this.
- [52:36]
D
Leaves, Leaves. Thank you, buddy. And thank you, Frankie, wherever you are. Thank you folks for listening to this athletic hockey show. Three of us are back next Wednesday. I'm back tomorrow with old Jesse Granger. Haley's also checking in from Vancouver. She's there for PWHL stuff that season's coming up. She's gonna preview some of that. Also go into some other interesting stuff she's been working on. That's tomorrow. Until then, this is the Wednesday show. Signing off. My Chemical Romance returns to the Hollywood Bowl.
- [53:22]
C
See My chemical romance for two seconds. Special performances in 2026.
- [53:29]
D
Friday, October 30.
- [53:31]
C
With special guest the Used and Saturday, October 31 with special guest thrice.
- [53:39]
D
Sign up for access to tickets@mychemicalromance.com.
- [53:45]
A
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