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- [00:00]
Narrator/Advertiser
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- [00:20]
Robert Mays
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- [01:17]
Narrator/Advertiser
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- [02:07]
Sean Gentile
What up, what up? What up? This is the Athletic Hockey Show. It's the Wednesday edition. I am Sean Gentile. I'm with Sean McIndoo. I am with Frankie Corrado. I am staring into a camera. Welcome to the YouTube era of this show. Of our particular show. Fellas, I want to know how you're doing. I want to know how your summers went. But most of all, I would like to know directly from your lips, what are you most excited about in terms of the video era of this show? Because I have some ideas.
- [02:43]
Sean McIndoo
I spent this morning doing tech support with ChatGPT to try to get my camera working. And even right now, I'm like half off. You know what? I'm excited about all of it. I love this. I love this. When I got into writing, my thing was I want to be. I want to be a tech guy. I want to plug things in and out and. Oh, it's great.
- [03:05]
Sean Gentile
If there's anything I'm really good at, it's talking into a camera and fiddling with wires and tech stuff.
- [03:12]
Sean McIndoo
If people aren't hitting the thumbs up on this, I am gonna. I will come to your house and hit it for you.
- [03:17]
Frankie Corrado
I. I can't wait till someone gets eyes on us and says, did Gentilly comb his hair with a pork chop? And then maybe Corrado combed his hair with a piece of lamb. Um, I'm happy that you were using ChatGPT to, like, solve your problems in life, because last night I used ChatGPT for lottery numbers, dude. My wife and I had, like, just put the kids down and she goes, I'm gonna ask ChatGPT for the Lotto649 numbers and go play them. And there I was at the gas station playing chatgpt, like, writing down with my phone next to me the numbers that chatgpt told us.
- [03:55]
Sean McIndoo
Think about how bad your life has to be going that you're like, I bet you, Chad, GPT could help right now. That was me.
- [04:03]
Sean Gentile
I've never. I've never played the lottery in my life. That is like one. That is one vice that I have denied my. Maybe. Maybe the single vice I've denied myself is, Is the lottery not gambling. I gamble. Of course I gamble.
- [04:17]
Frankie Corrado
You got to get in there, man. Lottery, that's life changing stuff.
- [04:20]
Sean Gentile
I pay enough for taxes, man. I don't need to add another one.
- [04:24]
Frankie Corrado
One, one in 64 million. There you go.
- [04:26]
Sean McIndoo
You know what? Every. Every other podcast and, like, sports media thing has gone all in on the sports gambling. We need to be the one that goes all in on the lottery. Just like, oh, yeah, lottery tips. And like, you know, just like, we come on and we're like, I'm feeling good about number 32 today. Yeah, it'll be just as useful.
- [04:44]
Frankie Corrado
Well, you know what I'm gonna. You know what I'm gonna do? Every time Sesame street is on, they have like a number of the day. I'll go six days in a row and I'll let you know what those numbers are and see if I can fit them in for our lottery numbers. And maybe we'll win. We'll have a big party.
- [04:59]
Sean McIndoo
Yeah. And you'll know that's happened because this show will never be on again as soon as that trio hits.
- [05:05]
Sean Gentile
Welcome to Frankie's Scratch Off Corner. It's sponsored by Better Help Boys. It's been too long. I've missed your faces. That's actually the worst part, I would say, of the video era.
- [05:20]
Sean McIndoo
Our faces.
- [05:22]
Sean Gentile
No, it's that I'm staring into a camera and not just gazing slightly below at the. It's a video window. Which is something I realized that I did consistently during our training for this. But how have you been? What's new, Frankie? Have you, like, are you overworked yet? I know we're on. We're on morning one of the season.
- [05:43]
Frankie Corrado
No, it's, it's. It's morning one. I'm not overworked yet, but over the summer, our kids had, like, every illness that a kid can possibly get, like, hand, foot and mouth. And then Rosiola and then this cold and that cold. And my wife and I finally, like, it's. It finished. And then we got into this groove where we were falling asleep at like 10 o' clock and waking up at 7. And now last night, the season starts and I'm sitting my ass in bed waiting for a 10:52 puck drop between the ABs and the Kings, and I'm like, that's it. I got four weeks of sleep and it's over. And. And right. We're right back at this thing. So I'm not overworked yet, but sleep is. Sleep is done again for a while.
- [06:27]
Sean McIndoo
Well, I mean, in fairness, the reason that game had to start so late is we needed to have time for the Kings to do a surprise costume change. This is apparently a new thing in the hockey world. You're. You're just. We're doing wardrobe switch outs before the opening face off for the surprise third uniform drop.
- [06:48]
Sean Gentile
I was psyched to have a. A third jersey ranking post set to go today that we had to scrap and reschedule because whatever, the Kings pulled us.
- [06:56]
Frankie Corrado
Sweet. Sweet. That's fun. That's good.
- [06:58]
Sean Gentile
Think. Think of the content mill. You guys are. You guys are being thoughtless with your, with your surprise drops.
- [07:06]
Sean McIndoo
Frankie, I know you never played for the Kings, but I, I see you've got the setup back there with the helmets. Like, can we get you a bright, shiny silver helmet?
- [07:15]
Frankie Corrado
Well, I would love a chrome helmet. I actually played for the Vaughn Kings, though. That was my. That was my minor hockey team under 16 years. So, hey, I got like, we had these purple third jerseys. Maybe I'll dig one up and I'll send you a picture and we can boot that around. A little bit. If the LA Kings should bring in the old Vaughn Kings third jerseys for a twirl.
- [07:39]
Sean Gentile
What do we think of the games last night? We should start there. We're going to get into other, you know, season preview, season reset type stuff because we, we haven't talked about it specifically but we've got one nights of games under our belt I guess theoretically, because I definitely didn't fall asleep during the west coast game. Wink, wink. Did anything happen last night to pique your guys interest? Is there, was there any takeaway from, from the first slide? Obviously we had Florida, Chicago, we had Rangers, Pittsburgh and then, and then we had the west coast game. Did, did anything stick out for you guys at all?
- [08:13]
Frankie Corrado
Oh yeah, the Rangers. I know it's only game one and things can change and night one in the NHL usually just feels like a one off but you're supposed to be, you know, playing your home opener and have some adrenaline and try and make a statement based on what happened last year. And the Rangers were so flat and disappointing and honestly like that was a pretty lifeless game considering you know, you have a new head coach who's playing against his former team who is trying to, you know, change the way that team kind of thinks and operates. And you know, they're talking about like no bs. That was, that was a brutal performance from the Rangers. The only thing that looked good about the Rangers last night was those, those jerseys. But they were, they were as, as flat and not spirited as you could. You, you couldn't even possibly imagine the Rangers were going to have that kind of performance last night on night one against the Penguins too. Like, you know, it's not like you had to play against Florida or Tampa night one. You were eased into it with a lot of motivating factors and laid an egg.
- [09:21]
Sean McIndoo
It was, it was as, I, I won't say as easy a matchup because there's no easy matchups in the NHL. But that was, that's the matchup you want if you're trying to start a new era. A team that nobody thinks is good at home got the former coach situation that's concerning. Like I, you never want to overreact and we're in that era now where for the next month every time people like us say anything, someone's going to jump in and say it's too early. And it is. But also that, that worries me if, if I'm the Rangers or a Rangers fan and I make. And I'm looking for something different. Not that you lost, but that there was Just nothing there.
- [10:04]
Sean Gentile
It's the ultimate night. One game too, because, you know, I'm from Pittsburgh. My friends and family are all psychopathic Penguins fans. Of course. Multiple group chats last night popping off like, penguins, maybe they're not that bad. Like, maybe they're not as bad as we thought. And they're. And they are bad. That's a, that's a bottom five roster. That team's gonna, that team's gonna struggle. But the fact that they, that that game went off in such a way for a fan base in Pittsburgh to think based on 60 minutes of play against the New York Rangers, like, hey, you know, maybe if a couple breaks go their way, maybe they're back in the. Like. No, that speaks extremely negatively about the Rangers. And that's basically it. Like, there's nothing to learn about the Penguins other than the fact that they're going to play hard and that they played harder than the New York for.
- [10:56]
Sean McIndoo
60 minutes ago and they might have a goalie. Is that maybe the one thing that we learned that we didn't know about Pittsburgh?
- [11:03]
Frankie Corrado
She Loves is good. She loves He's a good goaltender. Like, he's going to be overworked this year. But it is a statement, too, that she Loves gets the start and Tristan Jari doesn't. And we're how many years removed from Jari getting extended and Ryan Graves coming into the fold, signing a long term ticket. And now Graves is playing in Wilkes Barre. Jari's not starting night one, but the youth movement is the correct thing for the Penguins. And she loves is talented Maroshov. I got to see him in a preseason game in Montreal and I was blown away by that kid. Like, he, he really has something there. Like, he's, he's going to be the goalie of the future for Pittsburgh. And by all accounts, they're really excited about. But the youth movement kind of had a little bit of an exclamation point last night for the Penguins. Game one for Ben Kindle. First round pick last year, Harrison Bruinick, and it's at msg. And I thought this was just such an incredibly classy and savvy move by new head coach Dan Muse, that he started Bruinick with Latang, who's a Pittsburgh legend, Penguins legend. And then he started Kindle up front with Crosby and Malkin. Like, you never forget your first NHL game, your first NHL shift, but for those kids to be able to do it and look next to them and see hall of Famers and like legends of the game at msg that is one of the coolest starting lineup moments that I can remember. That was, that was incredibly classy by Dan Museum.
- [12:36]
Sean McIndoo
Which, which hall of Famers did you start with on your first NHL shift?
- [12:41]
Frankie Corrado
I, I, I did not start the game and luckily because I think I had the Bambi legs going. But I, I, someone was asking me about this this morning. I got a good lick on Marcus Krueger on my first shift and then I wasn't nervous anymore after that. But then like we, we played against Chicago. Chicago won the cup that year and we won 3 1. I had a good game, played like 17 minutes and then I found out the next day that like the Hawks wrote at the Roxy the night before. So they, they probably did me a favor.
- [13:14]
Sean Gentile
Marcus Krueger was nice for a little bit. He was, he's a good bottom six player. Frankie's out there doing work.
- [13:19]
Frankie Corrado
Oh yeah.
- [13:20]
Sean Gentile
Do you have any Ben Kendall thoughts while we're talking about, about the Penguins? He's a, he's a first round pick last year. Did you, did you catch him in any of your CHL travels last year? I know, I know he was, you know, a little bit of a reach for Pittsburgh in the, in the first round according to some boards and you know what? Wasn't, wasn't a guy who people were anticipating getting the nine game cup of coffee, but it seems like that's where we're at. Man, he didn't look out of place.
- [13:44]
Frankie Corrado
He didn't look out of place. Bruinick didn't look out of place. I think Cam Robinson had a great tweet from elite prospects talking about, if you're Team Canada's world junior brass and you're seeing Kendall and Bruinick and Parak and all these guys starting the year in the NHL, you're starting to panic about what your world junior junior team is going to look like. But Kindle's really intelligent. Like, he, he's, he's smart enough, he's fast enough, he's crafty enough to be able to play. He is undersized and, and I know at the time people talked about it being a reach, but like he's, and it's a small sample size, it's training camp in one game, but basically like he, he's proven that he is, he is worth where he was picked. He's, he's really intelligent. Like I, I, I think he, he probably is one of those players who, when you play at the junior level, you're with guys of a certain intelligence level and all Of a sudden you jump up to the NHL and you're more with guys on your wavelength and it makes you look better. So he's, yeah, he's, he's quite the player. And I know like everyone in Pittsburgh's talking glowingly about him. I can't go on Twitter without seeing, you know, someone write out the tweet. Man, Ben Kindle's really good or we didn't know he was this good. He's, he's excellent. So he's, he's surpassed expectations at this point for sure.
- [15:02]
Sean Gentile
Big news this morning obviously is Kyle Connors contract extension getting done. We're going to talk about the other big contract. We'll save that for, we'll save that for segment two, but I wanted to touch on this in the first segment. Kyle Conner signed the richest deal in jets history, which is I guess damning that with, with, with faint praise to some extent. Another big name comes off the, comes off the free agency board for, for next year. I'm trying to pull up the contract details there because it kind of just happened. So the specs on it, and this is according to Darren Dreger, first 55 million in salary for, for Kyle Connor, 41 million in a signing bonus over eight years. And that, and that according to LeBrun, certainly the structure that Kyle Connor was looking for. So eight years, $12 million. AUV. Again, Kyle Connors, he might have been the biggest name to hit free agency next summer at this point based on the work that we've seen done over the last little bit. So fellas, what are we, what are we thinking about that deal? What does it mean for the Jets? And if you had Kyle Conner, would you pay him $12 million for eight seasons?
- [16:09]
Frankie Corrado
Oh yeah, I'm paying Kyle Conner that money. If I'm the Winnipeg jets and I'm giving him the signing bonus and I'm giving him the no movement clause. You just lost Ehlers. You're in a competitive window to win right now and you're way worse without Kyle Conner. So they, you know, similar to the Caprice off situation, you had to capitulate and you had to pay Kyle Conner, but you're happy to do so. Like he's been super consistent. He's a point per game player essentially for the last seven or eight years. He's average like he's over 30 goals the last seven years. This is, this is a no brainer for the Winnipeg jets. But it's crazy that you know, the Caps going up so much that you look back at some of the deals the jets had signed, you got Scheifele and Hellebucket, $8.5 million, Josh Morrissey, $6.2 million, and now Cal Connor, who, you know, I. I would. I think Kyle Connor's best player on that team, making 12 million. He deserves it, but, man, that's. That's a lot more money than the other best players on that team are getting. But he. He deserves every penny of it.
- [17:12]
Sean McIndoo
Yeah, it feel. It feels a little rich to me for 30 goals and 80 points, which is what he's pretty consistently doing. But it is Winnipeg. And I don't, you know, I don't want to say Winnipeg Tax, but you. You gotta. When you know you're not a super desirable destination, you're not going to be able to light it up in free agency. And, you know, trading is sometimes an issue. Yeah, you got to get it done. This is. This was reasonable. This was in the range. It was nice to. It was nice to see a big signing that kind of made sense after the last two where we sort of had the extreme of, you know, oh, my gosh, I can't believe it was that much. And, oh, my gosh, I can't believe it was that little. So this. This one fits a bit more.
- [17:53]
Frankie Corrado
Think about it this way. Is. Is Kyle Conner $5 million worse than Kirill Capri? Soft. I don't know if he's $5 million worse of a player. He's a couple million. I could just. I could. I could reason with a couple million. Caprisoft. When he's healthy, he's a top 1012 player in the NHL, but not five. So, like, I think considering where the market has kind of been set for the scoring winger, the jets did okay. But they're going to have to pony up in bonuses, which is not something that they normally do. Right. They don't do the big signing bonus, walk to your mailbox July 1, pick up a fat check. You know, they don't do these no movement clauses, right. So they had to make other, you know, other arrangements, which is not something typically they do. But here you are now in this new world where you have to do these types of things.
- [18:42]
Sean Gentile
We know he works with Scheifele. We know he works with Gabe Velardi. I think that's an important element here, too, is that you have proof of concept that he's, you know, not just the best player on that team, Frankie, like you said he is, he's the engine for a pretty effective line. So, yeah, man, if the jets are going to make this work. Let's call it the Connor Hellebuck window, if that's the way we want to phrase it. You got to keep some talent around him, and it's starts with a guy like Conor. So, yeah, $12 million a year. I think part of it too is that, you know, it's going to be a process for all of us that, that write about the sport and talk about the sport and stare into cameras when, when we talk about the sport. The, the Bills are going to change. We need to recalibrate how we think about these players because it, because it's going to be a significant shift in the salary structure moving forward, because the caps. So we got to put this idea, these preconceived notions that we've been able to work in over the last however many years of what a $12 million player looks like and recalibrate it moving forward. Kyle Connor moving forward is a $12 million player a year and a half ago, maybe not, but things change. And I think this is like one of the first really good examples we have of what paying talent is going to look like for the foreseeable future.
- [20:07]
Frankie Corrado
Remember when you were in school and you wanted to use a calculator and your teacher said to you, you have to figure it out either on paper or in your head, because you can't carry a calculator around everywhere you go for your entire life. And they were wrong. And that's okay, and we won't fault them for that. But now that everyone has a calculator in their pocket, every time a contract comes down, we have to figure out the percentage of the cap because that's the number that matters the most. And then you're gonna go back and you're gonna say, okay, when we were in a flat cap world at 95 or $90 million, what was 11% of that cap? And then you're gonna look at it and say, you know what? Yeah, Kyle Connor is worth $12 million. Lane Hudson is gonna be worth $10 million. Like there's, you know, all these, these deals that are going to come in now. It all, it all has, it's all going to do with percentage of the cap. But as a, as a former player and a pa, you know, union member, I am now happy that the big boys are going to push for more money. Because in the flat cap world, listen, it was tough. The more of the pie that you took, the less there was for everyone else. And it was the haves and the have nots to a Certain degree now that there's more money at play and everyone's flush, go get that bag. And everyone else is going to go do it too because like league minimum in a few years is going to be a million dollars. Like the league's in a really good financial place. Players are paying zero escrow right now, like zero percent escrow. And they're talking about expansion. I was in the league, we were paying anywhere between 15 to 18% escrow. Finally Vegas came in and it was 11 and a half. Like owners are ready for this. Like, don't kid yourself. They, they can pay these guys. So it's up to the big boys to keep pushing it forward.
- [22:00]
Sean McIndoo
Now how is. Speaking of the big boys, what an up and down few weeks for Jack Eichel, the next big name to. Maybe not the next big name to sign, but the, the next biggest name on the unsigned list. Like, he's happy about this one, I feel like. Right, like, I mean, because, because he's, I think he's better than Kyle Conner. So you know, seeing, you know, I did. Not that he wasn't going to be able to probably write his own ticket in Vegas one way or another, but this, this makes it easier after some steps forward and back over the last couple weeks.
- [22:42]
Frankie Corrado
You know what I wonder with the Eichel thing. And I'm sure Vegas is going to do this with him. They're going to look at the McDavid deal and say, listen, Connor McDavid just left, what is it, 6 million on the table per year? We're not expecting you to do that. But like, what is, what is the 6 million, what is Jack Eichel's version of the $6 million discount to make sure that Vegas can stay competitive. And no one's going to feel bad for Vegas with how cutthroat they've been over the years. And part of that being cutthroat is actually bringing in Jack Eichel and making that trade. But it's also like for me it's not going to be apples to apples because Vegas is in a note state tax. It's no state tax bracket. So Jack Eichel can, can be afforded that luxury and, and still make out okay on his take home money. But I just, I don't love the narrative that star players have to leave so much money on the table so the team can be competitive. Like star players can leave a little bit, but they also still deserve to get their, like they deserve to get their, their market value because at the end of the day like you go to watch Vegas play to watch Marner and Stone and Eichel. You don't go to watch, you know, fourth liners. You go to Oilers games to watch McDavid and Draisaitl. You don't go to watch the, you know, Matthias Yanmarks of the world. So like, you know, they deserve their fair share without being cast as selfish for getting close to market value.
- [24:10]
Sean Gentile
Let's save some more Talk of the 12 and a half million dollar man for after the break because the Oilers start their season tonight. We're going to talk more about McDavid. We're going to talk more about some of the games, the games this evening, the season openers this evening. And we're going to do that right after the break.
- [24:27]
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- [25:57]
Robert Mays
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- [26:24]
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- [26:57]
Frankie Corrado
All right, we're back.
- [26:58]
Sean Gentile
You folks knew we weren't just going to talk about Connor McDavid for 30 seconds. I think we need to devote a little bit more time to him because this is still the main talking point in the league at this point.
- [27:10]
Frankie Corrado
Right.
- [27:10]
Sean Gentile
Like, we're still early enough in the season and it was a big enough deal that it feels like there's still more meat on the bone as it relates to the, to the entire McDavid discussion. We just got another example to flash across here. Matias Ackholm, three years, $4 million per. That's the second player to sign in the immediate wake of, of, of the McDavid decision. Of course, Jake Wallman, seven over seven. We're seeing Edmonton already kind of reap some of the benefits of McDavid taking the deal that he took and, and also putting their money where their mouth is and showing him that, you know, they're going to keep the guys he wants, he wants around for, for some meaningful amount of time. So I, I mean, I know again, we're not trying to rehash stuff, that stuff that's already been discussed, but I think it's important for both of you guys, you know, to like, share your thoughts on, because it's a, it's a big deal. It's going to affect how we talk about the league moving forward and certainly going to affect how we talk about the league this season and the one.
- [28:13]
Frankie Corrado
Oh, yeah, after it. Okay. Put it this way. While the salary cap is going up exponentially, Connor McDavid has elected to live in a flat cap world for the next, you know, two years after this one. That's his choice because at $12.5 million, he can leave some money on the table for the Edmonton Oilers to, to try and bolster that team and win. And if he, you know, he kind of comes to the conclusion that if he takes any more, the Oilers are going to have a hard time doing that. I think if there was ever a year for someone to win the King clancy on night one of the season, it's a lock. Like Connor McDavid. Congratulations for your contributions to your community and, and your team. You're very charitable. You win the King Clancy and you can put in your Twitter bio. Professional hockey player slash philanthropist for, for what? For what you've done for the city of Edmonton at this point, leaving that much money on the table. And there, if there was ever like a pressure meter that was cooking on high heat for the next three years, like that's Jeff Jackson and Stan Bowman. They got to, they, they have to figure out how to take this team come playoff time from how far are McDavid and Draisaitl going to take us to. That's a really deep team and it's led by McDavid and Draisaitl.
- [29:36]
Sean McIndoo
Two things on this. First of all, with McDavid and Kyle, I am so sick of these small market Canadian teams getting these discounts. When is the league going to do something about the advantage that these low cost of living markets have over the, over the others? The other thing is, look, this is, this is great news for Edmonton to get a guy like Connor McDavid at a huge discount. That is stating the obvious. If you're an Oilers fan, you heard this news, you were doing cartwheels. But you talk about the pressure of the next three years if it doesn't work. Connor McDavid at this point has not just every right because every player has the right contractually to do what they want. Nobody can say a word if after two or three more years, Connor McDavid says it hasn't worked. I gave you guys $10 million in extra cap space. I'm out.
- [30:35]
Frankie Corrado
Try 12.
- [30:36]
Sean McIndoo
12 million, 12, whatever. I mean, figure the number. I mean, he could just say I, I want out. And yeah, and people will criticize him because that's, that's what we do. But there's never been a guy who's more positioned to say, you know what? I've done everything I can possibly do. I'm now, I need a new, I need a new start somewhere.
- [31:01]
Frankie Corrado
You know what's crazy? You can't possibly criticize him because not only did he leave all this money on the table and he's going to give you 13 years of service, essentially guaranteed. He's led the way in the playoffs and the regular season. Like it's not like, not like he hasn't done his job. The only thing I can think of that McDavid hasn't truly delivered on was two years ago, Game 7. He could have, he could, he could have gone off in Game 7 and we wouldn't be having this conversation because everything would be okay. And McDavid probably signs a long term deal in Edmonton and most money ever, yada. Yada yada. There's only one thing other than that he has delivered and then some in every aspect you could possibly imagine. And now they have to get it right in Edmonton. And I truly think it comes down to three things. You guys tell me if you agree or disagree. The goaltending. If this new goalie coach thing doesn't work for Stuart Skinner, you have to make a significant investment in that position and that means bringing in someone who is a viable upgrade over who they have.
- [32:05]
Sean Gentile
I appreciate the work they did, by the way, pushing the goalie coach narrative over a little bit. Like we heard, we heard a whole lot about Edmonton's new goalie coach and certainly much more than we hear about other new goalie coaches across the league. So bravo. Way to put that one in front of people, folks.
- [32:23]
Frankie Corrado
And we'll give them the benefit of the doubt. Go ahead. Right, like show us that you're right and we're wrong for thinking you need new goaltending. So that's one. The other thing is, and they just signed matthias Ekholm to three years, $4 million per year. He's also 30. He's going to be 36 soon. So is Matthias Ekholm still the guy who can eat huge minutes and play against top lines or does, does he age? And you do need to find another player like that. Like I think you need to probably bring in another guy similar to that. But that remains to be seen. But, and I think three is probably more important than number two. They have to find scoring in the middle six. Like they can't get into a situation where all of a sudden Leon Draisaitl has to carry around, you know, Kapanen and Pod Colson and you know, expect that line to be really potent offensively because it basically rests on Draisaitl shoulders at that point. Like it has to be. There has to be scoring throughout that middle six that really hasn't been there as consistently as it should have been. But now they'll have the funds to make sure it's there.
- [33:33]
Sean Gentile
Maybe they can trade for Dylan Holloway. They should try to do that.
- [33:36]
Frankie Corrado
They should, they should.
- [33:37]
Sean McIndoo
Hard to get a guy like that.
- [33:39]
Frankie Corrado
It is tough. Yeah, it's a bargain too.
- [33:42]
Sean McIndoo
This, this is sort of what you, what you have to do wisely with this extra cap money. Because we've, we've seen this before. Remember when Connor McDavid signed his 8 year old $12.5 million deal. Even at the time you looked at that, even though he was the highest paid player in the league and went he he could have taken more. He could have, you know, he could have squeezed him for more. And then they kind of went and took that extra money and gave it to like Zach Cassian, who was scoring 20 goals playing with Connor McDavid. And it's like really big though.
- [34:11]
Sean Gentile
Yeah, big guy.
- [34:12]
Sean McIndoo
If you're gonna just give my money to somebody who's not very good, who's gonna play on my line and get numbers because of me, then what are we even doing here? So it's, it's fascinating because Stan Bowman was brought into Edmonton to push this thing across the finish line. He was the closer. That was the idea. He had done it in Chicago, taken the young team and got him over the finish line and now he's got to do it in Edmonton. The pressure here is off the charts.
- [34:44]
Sean Gentile
I love it.
- [34:44]
Sean McIndoo
It's, it's. They're, they're going, the Oilers in the next three years are going to win a Stanley cup or they are going to be considered one of the great failures in the history of the NHL. No middle ground, one or the other.
- [34:59]
Sean Gentile
And it in the front office is going to wear it like that. That to me is the big, is the big differentiation point here. Like I did post drop this morning, something I worked on yesterday, because it was a discussion point at the athletic, like among the non hockey people, because you see this and there's two things that come to people's mind. Connor McDavid, best hockey player on earth, the guy that non hockey Fans know makes 12 and a half million dollars a year. What's that? What's that now? So people are looking at that and saying like, this is what a decent bench player in the NBA makes. This is what, you know, an inside linebacker in the, in the NFL makes. So there was some kind of sticker shock over people realizing that. But then it moves on to like, wow, is this the biggest bargain that's, that anybody has ever given to a franchise in professional sports. That was like the framework for this. And it's not for a couple different reasons. Like we've seen NBA players give tens of millions of dollars back over the course of their contract. We've seen Sidney crosby signed for 12 years at 1 percentage more of the cap than Connor McDavid signed, signed for a couple of days ago for the entirety of his prime. Right. This isn't the greatest bargain of all time. The variable is that the bargains that are bigger, Sidney Crosby, Kevin Durant, Tom Brady, guys in that class who objectively left more money on the table, were doing it for organizations that deserved it. They were doing it for organizations that showed that. Had shown those players that they knew what they were doing, that they had the juice necessary to win titles. And Edmonton hasn't done that. The Oilers have failed that. Whether it's Stan Bowman, whether it's Ken Holland, like, pick whoever you want. Over the course of Connor McDavid's career, nobody affiliated with that organization has given him any reason to do what he just did. So have other players given more money back? Yeah, absolutely. But they've done it to stay in situations or join situations where you already knew that the rest of the framework was in place. So that, to me, is where McDavid is remarkable, is that he's giving these guys a chance to build around him, despite not ever having any real reason to believe that it's possible outside of the fact that he's on the team and Leon draisaitl is on the team, which, which is the easiest boxes in the world that you could possibly check. So it is, man, it's. It's a. It's a wild. I know we're two days out from it, but it's just a wild state of affairs. And I think it's something that's gonna. That's gonna hang over, you know, certainly The Oilers, certainly McDavid, and I think to some extent the league over the next two years. This is the story in the National Hockey League for the next two or three seasons is. Is what just happened in Edmonton.
- [37:49]
Sean McIndoo
You're absolutely right. But I'm laughing because I can just picture all the Oilers fans who win like news drop that the McDavid extension is coming. We're like, finally, I don't have to hear about this for a little while.
- [37:59]
Sean Gentile
It's incredible.
- [38:00]
Frankie Corrado
Yeah, you're going to hear about it.
- [38:01]
Sean McIndoo
You're going to hear about it.
- [38:02]
Frankie Corrado
By the way, when you say it out loud that the best player in the national hockey league makes 12 and a half million dollars, you know where my mind automatically goes to. And this is so random. And it's not apples to oranges because it's two different sports and revenue streams. But Danny dimes was making $40 million as the quarterback of the Giants. And I'm like, the best player in our sport just signed for 12 and a half over two years. He's going to make just over half of what Danny Dimes made in a year. I can't, like, I can't wrap my head around that. It's just crazy. It's just crazy.
- [38:37]
Sean McIndoo
You head in the piece like, wasn't it like Jake Ferguson makes like, you know, a guy who's like in the oh, 5 to 10 range of best tight ends, which if you're not a football fan is like, you know, maybe the seventh most important position.
- [38:51]
Sean Gentile
And yeah, the one I, the one I led, the one I led, led with was Robert Spain. He's like a meat and potatoes like middle linebacker who's good at stopping the run and he's on his fourth NFL team and he makes as much as Connor McDonald like we like it's an apples the bowling ball comparisons when you're talking about salary structure with, with the other major sports. But it's also instructive to some extent because, you know, I, I think that's where McDavid also really stands out is like in terms of percentage, he left a whole bunch on the table. Even though in terms of raw dollars, when you look at Dirk Nowitzki or whatever 15 years ago, it's, it's not quite there. So yeah, man, I, I'm, I, I, we need to be prepared to keep talking about this for the next three years and Oilers fans unfortunately need to be prepared, prepared for it as well because this is, this is a big, unique, fascinating story that dropped in our lap and it's not going away anytime soon.
- [39:48]
Frankie Corrado
No. And you know what there's with, with first overall picks like Connor McDavid has lived up to the hype. He's held up his end of the bargain. And I think, you know, it's, we watched Connor Bedard last night play for the Chicago Blackhawks opening the season against Florida. And I think there's a world where Connor Bedard maybe doesn't live up to the generational hype that followed him, but it still is on a trajectory to be a superstar. I just don't know if it's this year for Bedard, but I liked what I saw from him last night. It looked like he had picked up maybe a half step of acceleration. But I don't know how you guys feel. There's still not the help that he needs. And I don't think Chicago has all the pieces of in place just quite yet. And keep in mind, like, Edmonton was in, Edmonton was in the playoffs in year two of McDavid's tenure. Like, we're going to be in year three now. Chicago's still going to be in the basement. And I, I just, I'm not sold that Bedard truly has that, that, that wingman that, that, you know, Nathan McKinnon had in Rantin and McDavid has in Dreidle. But like, I don't know, like, do you think Bedard still has superstar in him? Because I, I do. I just don't think it's, I don't think it's quite yet, but I think he'll take another step this year.
- [41:09]
Sean McIndoo
I, I, I see. I think superstar is still on the table. I think what has sort of been left behind was this idea that this was a generational talent coming in, the idea that he was going to be the next Crosby, the next McDavid. Crosby won the MVP year two. McDavid won the MVP year two. Connor Bedard last year kind of actually saw his numbers drop a little bit. Now you can still be a pretty good player in this league and not be Sidney Crosby. And there are lots of really good players in this league who did not become MVP level superstars in year one or year two, including Leandre Seidl, including Nathan McKinnon, including Joe Thornton. There's a lot of guys that, when you've got that level of talent, you can, you can still be something. The question is, you know, you talk about Chicago doesn't have the guys around him. Is Chicago even trying to put the guys around him at this point? That's sort of becomes the question is, is, versus, you know, are they, are they trying to put guys around him right now or is the idea in Chicago still going to be collect prospects and then just hope it all comes together at some point? You know, it. Do you, do you owe him at some point to say, we're gonna, we're gonna put some guys around you that they can really show what you can do? Or is it, you know, the patient approach? It's been extraordinarily patient in Chicago so far. But, you know, at some point you gotta try to win some games, collect.
- [42:38]
Frankie Corrado
One prospect and he's playing at Penn State this year and it's Gavin McKenna, right? Like, okay, so if you, I'm going.
- [42:45]
Sean Gentile
To see tomorrow, by the way, I will be at the Gavin McKenna Home Open opener in State College.
- [42:50]
Frankie Corrado
He is unreal. He's, he's incredible. But like, if you use the Nathan McKinnon case study, okay, it really took McKinnon about four years before offense popped and, and he was the version of Nathan McKinnon that we know right now. If you go Back to the 2016, 2017 season, it's when Rantanen hopped onto the scene. McKinnon has 53 points, Rantane has 38 points. Colorado is a basement team, but they, and they were both like, fairly healthy that year. The next year, 2017, 2018, they both explode. McKinnon gets 97 points. Ranton gets 84 points. The Colorado Avalanche squeak into the playoffs. And you're like, that's it. Like, it's not that rantin and made McKinnon. It's that they both kind of had each other to work off of. And now it's at the point where you moved on from Rantanen, Marty Nachos, you're in there like, McKinnon makes everyone around him better. Like, he's, he's that good. But he needed, he needed the support around him to get to that point. So, like, I think at some point, if, if Bedard has his version of Rantanen, like, he'll, he'll get to superstar status. But yeah, generational, like, that's, you know, that's, that's asking a lot at this point. But it took McKinnon a while. Once Bedard gets someone, he has, he has the ability to do it. Watching that game last night, you can see Bedard, he has to do a lot one on one, and I'm like, you know, he makes a cross ice pass to Colton Doc, and I'm like, Doc just whiffs on it. I'm like, if that, if that is McKinnon to Ranton in 2017, 2018, that's likely a goal, right? But that's part of the difference, right? Just not being able to have that guy to work off of give and go situations. I still find he has to do a lot one on one, which is not going to help the point totals, per se.
- [44:45]
Sean McIndoo
Is there a level he has to get to this year for us to not start to be concerned? Like, is another 60 point year good enough? Or, you know, do we. Do we just kind of put the expectations on hold until he's got some talent around him?
- [44:59]
Frankie Corrado
It's got to be like a point per game. He's got to be, you know, 75 to 85 points this year. I think that's fair because he was almost a point per game player in his first year and that obviously dropped in year two. And then even prior to him getting hurt in year one where he took that, that hit from, from Brendan Smith, I think he was 33 points in like 36 or 39 games and 15 of those were goals at that point. So he was on a good clip. He's got to find, like, he's got to be on that clip again this year, like point 90 to one point per game.
- [45:30]
Sean Gentile
Essentially, I had a head coach tell me over the summer when we were working on the player tiers thing, that they need to figure out whether he's capable of transporting the puck by himself, like, at a high level, or if he needs someone to help with that. That seems like a big deal. That's an important thing to try to figure out for a player like Conor Bedard in year three. Like, is he. Is he Braden Point or is he Nikita Kucherov? And which version of those does he need to plan a line to make him, you know, the best version of himself that he can possibly be? And I think that is something that we need to watch with Bedard because the dude is. He's magic. Once he's in the zone, we know that he's just not there enough. And if that's. And they need to figure out what the best way to get that guy more zone time is, and if that means that he needs to be better or if they need to surround him with better pieces or some combination of the two, I feel like that is the priority for. For Chicago this year season.
- [46:29]
Frankie Corrado
Yeah. And I think that, like, that half step of quickness that we saw last night, that is going to help with that. Like, we'll.
- [46:36]
Sean McIndoo
We'll.
- [46:37]
Frankie Corrado
We'll see him be more able to. To transport the puck. But all that, to be. All that to say that, like, the McKinnon superstar trajectory, if you were looking at it going into year three, you weren't sold yet. And I think with Connor Bedard, like, we can use the McKinnon case study and say that there's still time for him to really pop. And it's just Year three.
- [47:03]
Sean Gentile
Frank, you working tonight?
- [47:05]
Frankie Corrado
Yeah, yeah. We're doing a little Sports center panel for Canadian opening night, and then I'm off to Detroit for Habs Wings. I'm excited for that. Like, there's a lot of excitement around the wings right now with Sanding Pelica and Branson Nagaard and Emmett Phinney all making the team and sounds like they're all going to play. So a little bit of a youth movement happening for both of these teams in the Atlantic. Should be a fun night on Thursday.
- [47:31]
Sean Gentile
You're ready for some Atlantic Division hockey, baby. I see a lot of you, I feel like.
- [47:35]
Frankie Corrado
Oh, yeah.
- [47:36]
Sean Gentile
All right, man. Enjoy. Good seeing you. We'll talk to you again next week. What we learned with me and McIntosh coming up next.
- [47:48]
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BetterHelp Advertiser
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- [50:16]
Sean Gentile
Sean McIndoo we're on day two of the NHL season. We've had to learn some things, right? Right.
- [50:21]
Sean McIndoo
What have we learned? And I feel like I've learned over the last week that we are officially now in the Florida Panthers villain era. And I say officially because some of us have been talking about this for a while now. I remember even before they they won their first cup, I wrote a piece where I said these are the new villains. These, these are, this is a team. It is a dirty team. And I don't necessarily mean that as an insult because in the NHL you can be as dirty as they let you get away with. And they're very good at getting away with it. They've Got a lot of the, the pieces in place to be the Villains. And we saw it last week in a couple ways. First, with the whole situation with the Lightning in that garbage exhibition game, that didn't mean anything other than it was a chance for everyone to take runs at each other. And I'd say everyone, but apparently not. It was only the Lightning doing it because they were the only ones who got pushed back. Yeah, our little Florida Panther Angels with their, with their halos got off scot free. Now we found out about the Stanley cup rings. They apologized to no one. Okay, I'm just gonna say this for the Florida Panthers. Look, sports is better with villains, and it's better when the Villains embrace the role. But we're at a very key and sensitive point in the villain arc here for the Florida Panthers because this could, this could get good or this could get lame real quick. And I don't feel like we're off to an awesome start with the whole cup ring thing. I don't think the, when you've got your, like, your, your little slogans that you know about not apologizing, just, just tread carefully is all I'm saying. We've got something here. Let's build on this. But let's not let the wrestling promo guys take over and turn this into something where three months from now, we're all rolling our eyes going, oh, are.
- [52:33]
Sean Gentile
The panthers still trying three months from now? What about like three days, 16 hours.
- [52:38]
Sean McIndoo
Ago, one Palmariese press conference? I don't know. We got to see, like, he had the whole summer work on new material. I'm assuming he hit the clubs.
- [52:46]
Sean Gentile
And now it's like, I can't wait. I can't wait to see what Maurice has workshopped over the last, over the last four months in the South Florida comedy clubs. Man, he's, he's really going to bring the heat. Yeah, like, they're leaning into the we apologize to nobody stuff pretty hard. I don't remember, like, I don't remember people being upset about that necessarily. It's one of those things where, I.
- [53:10]
Sean McIndoo
Mean, people have certainly. There's been lots of complaining for a couple reasons. A, they're dirty and B, they get all the players at decent to cheap prices because everybody wants to play there. So I get and look and they, they win. And that's the number one rule in sports. When you win. Everybody else cries about it and finds a way to complain and, and try to take it from you. So I'm all good with that. It's just, you know, Okay.
- [53:39]
Sean Gentile
I don't know.
- [53:41]
Sean McIndoo
Look, it. It's. It. It is like pro wrestling. You need the heel, you need the bad guy. But let's.
- [53:46]
Sean Gentile
You can be the cool bad guy.
- [53:48]
Sean McIndoo
Instead of the dweeby bad guy. Right? Like, let's.
- [53:51]
Sean Gentile
Let's try to. We're going to go way. We're. Man, we. We could really go down wrestling rabbit holes here, and we're not going to do that. I feel like you and I could rip off like a solid five minutes about. About the. Talk about XPOC Heat or something, but it just feels like they're giving themselves a nickname here.
- [54:10]
Sean McIndoo
Yes.
- [54:10]
Sean Gentile
You know, like, okay, we apologize and no one's on the ring and it's in the box and it's engraved all over the place. Like, we. We. We get it.
- [54:20]
Sean McIndoo
Yeah.
- [54:21]
Sean Gentile
Get it. Should apologize to somebody. Apologize.
- [54:24]
Frankie Corrado
Somebody.
- [54:25]
Sean McIndoo
There's got to be somebody out there.
- [54:26]
Sean Gentile
Someone to apologize for.
- [54:27]
Sean McIndoo
Apologize for hitting Ariana Grande in the head with a puck when she was 4 years old or whatever it was. That'd be something.
- [54:36]
Sean Gentile
I've learned that Alex Petrangelo is actually not going to play this season. Officially not going to play. We got the release from the NHL yesterday and. And it was a co. Signed by the. By the PA&CO. Signed by the Vegas Golden Knights, saying, like, he's out, essentially. This is in the wake of Petrangelo a couple weeks ago giving a progress update on his health where he's saying, like, I'm not actually not taking anything off the table. We'll see how rehab goes. You know, we'll see what happens. And of course, in June we get the update. This past June we get the update on Petrangelo. He needs bilateral femoral reconstruction, which sounds like the most painful injury to ever take place. You know, his career is in doubt and yada, yada. Then Petrangelo kind of walks it back and opens up the door a little bit. We saw that slam a couple days ago.
- [55:28]
Sean McIndoo
Then he got invited to meet with Kelly McCrimmon in the parking lot and suddenly was limping back out of there.
- [55:36]
Sean Gentile
There's. There's security cam footage of McCrimmon whispering something very gently into Petrangelo's ear.
- [55:43]
Frankie Corrado
He puts.
- [55:44]
Sean McIndoo
McCrimmon puts his cigarette out dramatically and walks away. And that's. That's the last we've ever seen.
- [55:49]
Sean Gentile
Pushes a piece of paper across. Across his desk and Petrangelo reads it and goes white. And that's. And then boom. Statement gets released. I think that was a necessary bit to happen over the last couple days because everyone knows how the Vegas Golden Knights operates. Everybody knows how, you know, cutthroat teams like that operate under this iteration of the cba. People were thinking like, they're going to pull some funny business and stash Alex Petrangelo for seven months. And then Night won the playoffs. He's magically going to have recovered from his two horrific hip, hip and quadricep injuries. That's not going to happen. He clearly is. Is extremely injured and his career might be over. But I, I think that kind of clarification actually needed to take place because anybody who's paid any amount of attention to the NHL at large or the Vegas Golden Knights specifically over the last couple years, like what we heard from Petrangelo a couple weeks ago, man, the gears started turning and I, I think. I think people started thinking that there might have been something in the work, and there clearly is not. Well, I appreciate, I appreciate the clarification.
- [56:58]
Sean McIndoo
The other thing that, that we learned, I think, or at least a lot of people learned, is is this new rule where if you want all the cap space for a player, you've got to declare at the beginning of the year that they are out for the whole year.
- [57:14]
Sean Gentile
Yep.
- [57:15]
Sean McIndoo
Otherwise, you get a portion of the cap space which is, you know, for example, what's happening with Florida, with, with Sasha Barkov, he could miss the entire season, but he could be back at some point in the playoffs. And so to leave that open, they don't get the full 10 million in cap room. It's three or something like that. And this was a similar thing where in order to get that cap room that Vegas is now going to get and use and probably go out and get your team's favorite player, because that's just what they do. They had to declare this. And then you get into the whole situation where on the first night of the playoffs, they have to fit everything in and, and, and all of that. But this was a good kind of reminder that this is how this new rule works. This is the new CBA thing, and update your list of complaints about Vegas and Florida and Chicago and all these teams that do this stuff, because you got to know the new rules. So you make sure you're complaining about the right thing.
- [58:14]
Sean Gentile
Yeah, they'll. They'll find some other loophole. That's how it works. That's what successful teams do. But this.
- [58:19]
Sean McIndoo
But will they apologize about it? And to who?
- [58:23]
Sean Gentile
That's. I think that's our new motto on the Wednesday show is we apologize to no one except Jeff when we stumble over our words and to the people who are watching us on camera, they deserve biggest apology of the biggest apology of all. You hear that watcher? YouTube watcher. We apologize to you.
- [58:43]
Sean McIndoo
I think we need to do this every week. We need to figure out who we're apologizing to. Forget about what we learned. Who did you apologize to this week?
- [58:50]
Sean Gentile
Some apologies. We apologize to some people. That's our. That's the motto, baby. Welcome back to the Athletic Hockey Show. Thank you, buddy. And thank you, Frankie, wherever you are. Thank you. Thanks to you fine folks for listening and for watching. The three of us are back next Wednesday. Haley and Dom, that's his name. We're back tomorrow with a Thursday show. Enjoy your week. We'll talk to you then and see you real soon.
- [59:22]
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