Do the Ottawa Senators have a podcast problem?

Summary

The Athletic Hockey Show: "Do the Ottawa Senators have a podcast problem?"

Date: April 2, 2026
Hosts: Haley Salvine & Sean Gentile, with guest Fluto Shinzawa

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Overview

This episode dives into two core topics:

1. The Ottawa Senators' ongoing drama fuelled by the Tkachuk brothers' podcast and what it means for the team and its fanbase.
2. The Boston Bruins' surprising resurgence and masterful roster retool, with expert insight from The Athletic’s Bruins writer, Fluto Shinzawa.

Also covered: Toronto Maple Leafs' organizational turbulence, William Nylander's future, and a check-in on the Western Conference playoff race.

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1. Ottawa Senators & The Tkachuk Podcast Controversy (02:37–20:29)

Main Theme

The hosts discuss heated reactions among Ottawa Senators fans sparked by recent viral clips from the Tkachuk brothers’ podcast, featuring captain Brady Tkachuk, his brother Matthew, and their father, Keith ("Walt") Tkachuk.

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Key Discussion Points

a. Viral Podcast Clips Stirring Fan Outrage (04:44–08:13)

• Clips in question:
  1. Keith Tkachuk, on the Sens' injuries:
     • “Oh, my God, this team. My pinky hurts. I had a bad sleep. I can’t play today. There’s risk management. Oh, my God, it’s disgusting.”
  2. Keith asks Brady about his contract:
     • “Brady, how many years do you have left?”
     • Walt and Matthew: “Nice timing. That’s for another day.”
• Brady’s reaction: Silent, head down.
• Matthew tries to redirect: "Okay, okay, let's move on."

b. The Implications & Fan Reaction (08:13–13:37)

• Sean Gentile:

  “The Sens fanbase is right to be reactive... If they're mad about this, if they're concerned about this, completely justified. I don't know why this clip was released.... I’m saying, WTF?” (08:13)

• Haley Salvine:

  “Why are you even doing this in-season?... Why would you not just go to your producer and be like, hey, can we take that clip out of my dad ripping on the team I'm the captain of?” (10:14)

• Issue: Brady neither pushes back nor gets the segment edited.

c. Leadership, PR, and Unforced Errors (13:37–20:29)

• Sean:

  “The guy that we saw talking in those clips was not Brady Tkachuk, Ottawa Senators captain. That was Brady Tkachuk, Matthew Tkachuk's little brother, and Keith Tkachuk's son. He was right in that mode.” (11:29) “There were a lot of different choices that Brady could have made... He made none of them.” (15:53)

• Haley:

  “It’s just not a good look to have like the dad of the captain chirping the franchise and the captain just kind of sitting there.” (14:54)

• Sense of doom for Sens fans: Ongoing drama, captains in controversy, a feeling that the “new era” is tainted by weekly PR crises from this podcast.

d. Broader Reflections

• Sean:

  “People who want hockey players to show personality and put themselves out there, be careful what you wish for. It’s a monkey’s paw situation.” (16:42)

• Haley:

  “These just feel like unforced errors by a captain of a franchise with a fan base that have gone through A lot of shit with their captains, with their team in general over years and years.” (17:08)

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2. Boston Bruins’ Stunning Turnaround – with Fluto Shinzawa (23:06–47:02)

Main Theme

How Don Sweeney, Marco Sturm, and elite goaltending have rapidly transformed the Bruins from basement dwellers to Eastern Conference contenders.

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Key Discussion Points

a. Biggest Surprise in the East (23:06–24:52)

• Haley:

  “This time last season, the Boston Bruins were out of the playoff race... finished 28th... It looked like the bottom was finally going to drop... That has not been the case.”

• Fluto:

  “I would've put money on this being yet another season of trying to get back into the playoffs.... To be this comfortable in the wild card spot? Did not see it coming.” (24:00)

b. Under-the-Hood: What’s Pulling This Off? (24:52–27:45)

• Team still below water in expected goal share.
• Swayman’s goaltending: “If he's not in the Vezina finalists, then the GMs don't know what they're doing.” (26:09)
• Outperforming expected goals both for and against.

c. The Jeremy Swayman Effect (27:17–30:53)

• Fluto:

  “He is absolutely number one reason... I go through my mind, I can't think of any goals that he's let in that shouldn't have gone in. He's been tremendous.” (29:15)

• Swayman's resurgence attributed to:
  • Partnership with Linus Ullmark broken up.
  • Contract holdups and missed training camp.
  • Rediscovering confidence at Worlds last year.

d. Center Depth and Roster Construction (30:39–33:50)

• Sean:

  “I looked at [the center depth] in October... This isn't the center depth chart of a team that's going to have 94 points.”

• Fluto:
  • Lindholm, Zacha, Minton—no stars but good enough.
  • Minton may wear a letter in Boston someday.

e. Don Sweeney’s Trade Masterclass (35:30–39:56)

• Haley:

  “Victor Arvidsson, Casey Mittelstadt, Pavel Zacha, Fraser Minton... all deals that have aged very well for the Boston Bruins, not so well for the teams that were dealing with Don Sweeney.”

• Fluto:

  “It’s hard to pick the best one... The obvious one is Minton. What did Carlo do for Toronto last year? Not much, this year forget it, and then Minton could be wearing a letter for Boston.”

  • Highlights Arvidsson, Maternal (Allmark trade), Kaslak, and a strong future draft position.
  • “That’s thievery for the Bruins.”

f. Coaching Impact: Marco Sturm & System (39:56–44:53)

• Sean:

  “How much does Marco Sturm have to do with that? Is he getting enough pub in the Jack Adams race?”

• Fluto:

  Describes: honest, direct, great at identifying how to use players (e.g., Mittelstadt). “The plan was for [Higgins] to finish out the year in Providence, not even see NHL games...” (parallels McAvoy’s path)

g. Bruins Playoff Outlook (44:57–46:25)

• Question: Can Boston beat Buffalo if they meet in round one?
• Fluto:

  “Sure. Because I think the goaltending could be a difference maker... Swayman’s playoff pedigree makes the difference.”

---

3. Toronto Maple Leafs Turmoil & Nylander’s Future (50:03–59:16)

Key Discussion Points

• Leafs up in the air:
  • Keith Pelly’s press conference and his claim of “four generational players” (Matthews, Nylander, Nyes, Tavares).
  • Sean:

    “My favorite line... we have four generational players... That phrase means nothing at this point.” (53:19)

• Nylander to Jonas:

  “Unless it was a full rebuild and we were going to get rid of everybody, then that’s a different story... I still want to be here.” (51:20)

• Debate: Is anyone on the team actually “generational”? Are the organizational moves on track?

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4. Western Conference Playoff Race: Sharks Back In It (60:08–66:39)

Key Discussion Points

• San Jose’s surprising run:
  • Macklin Celebrini shines—“There is a generational talent.” (60:30)
  • Sharks suddenly winning, playoff spot in reach.
  • Sean:

    “All it takes is a team winning three games in a row to really get themselves back in the race... I was foolish to have written them off, you know, a few days ago.” (61:47)

• Haley:

  “Is there something to be said about getting that playoff experience versus a high draft pick...?”

• Senators cited as negative example of endless rebuilding not leading to playoff success.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Sean, on the Tkachuk podcast drama:

  “The Sens fanbase is right to be reactive... If they're mad about this... completely justified. I'm saying, WTF?” (08:13)

• Haley, on Sens leadership:

  “Why would you not just go to your producer and be like, hey, can we take that clip out of my dad ripping on the team I'm the captain of?” (10:14)

• Sean, reflecting on personality in hockey:

  “Be careful what you wish for. If you want those guys to show their personalities, be prepared to not like what you see.” (16:42)

• Fluto, on the Bruins' transformation:

  “There aren’t any whiffs in terms of acquisitions, signings... This on-the-fly rebuild... it’s A-plus all around.” (27:17)

• Sean, on the definition of generational talent:

  “When you’re not the best player of your generation, you can’t be generational. Call me crazy.” (55:01)

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Important Timestamps

• 02:37 – Opening banter, intro of topics
• 04:44–20:29 – Ottawa Senators drama & Tkachuk podcast breakdown
• 23:06–47:02 – Boston Bruins segment with Fluto Shinzawa
• 50:03–59:16 – Maple Leafs & Nylander news, “generational talents” debate
• 60:08–66:39 – Western Conference playoff race; Sharks' postseason push

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Tone & Style

The hosts maintain a sharp, irreverent, and candid tone, blending deep hockey analysis with playful banter and direct criticism. They do not shy from voicing strong opinions, especially regarding team management, player PR blunders, and overblown media narratives.

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Conclusion

For listeners looking for a thoughtful yet cheeky breakdown of pressing NHL stories, this episode delivers an incisive look at the collision of new media and team culture (in Ottawa), an expertly guided tour of the Boston Bruins' unlikely resurgence, and high-level banter on Toronto’s identity crisis and the wild West playoff chase.

Next up: Max and Haley on Monday; more Athletic Hockey Show through the week.

Transcript

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This is the athletic hockey show.

[Haley Salvine]

What's up everybody? Welcome back to another episode of the Athletic Hockey Show. It is Haley Salvine and Sean Gentile here with you reunite on this fine Thursday. Today on the show, Flute O Shinzawa is going to join us from Florida to discuss the surprise of the Eastern Conference, the Boston Bruins, and the masterful job that GM Don Sweeney has done retooling that roster. We're going to eat our words on that one. I think we had at least three podcasts where we said the Bruins were going to be terrible this season, fifth in the east in points. They could jump out of the wild card and into the Atlantic playoffs. So we're going to talk to Fluta about all that. But first, let's bring in Sean. Say hello. What's up?

[Sean Gentile]

Hello.

[Haley Salvine]

It's, like, so weird every time you do that.

[Sean Gentile]

Hello.

[Haley Salvine]

Like, it just kills whatever energy and vibe that I tried to provide.

[Sean Gentile]

Yeah, I know. That's me. That's me. Real energy killer, you know, that's what I would say. So that's what I'm out here to do. Good evening. Good morning.

[Haley Salvine]

Hi. It's the morning. Okay, so there's one thing I wanted to bring up to start the show before we get into fluto. And then later in the show, we're going to talk a bit about the Western conference playoff race, specifically the wild card, because it's pretty spicy. It's kind of fun.

[Sean Gentile]

It's just another segment where I'm gonna have to eat crow. By the way, that's what the theme of.

[Haley Salvine]

That's the theme of today's show.

[Sean Gentile]

I've been wrong in the long term, in the medium term, and in the Reese, in the very recent past, I've been extremely incorrect about stuff. Cool.

[Haley Salvine]

Yeah. Well, we could bring up our awards. Watch again. Dom and I. The day that you had the man flu, Dom and I had to sit there and do that alone.

[Sean Gentile]

The man.

[Haley Salvine]

You didn't have to answer for your crimes. Yeah.

[Sean Gentile]

Because the man flew.

[Haley Salvine]

You had a cold, but you were really extra about it.

[Sean Gentile]

That's not. I couldn't talk. I lost my voice.

[Haley Salvine]

Manful. You could have. You just didn't try. A woman would never. Says the girl who's like, never on the show anymore. I was at Frozen 4 last week, wasn't I?

[Sean Gentile]

No, that was the week before that.

[Haley Salvine]

Was that continue last week?

[Sean Gentile]

Continue.

[Haley Salvine]

You weren't on the show either last week. That was Prospect boys. Anyways, okay, so I'm getting this on the rails here. So here's some of the context of this discussion. I noticed a few clips last night of the Tkachuk brothers podcast going viral, and wait for it. While I was standing in line alone to get into the Hayley Williams concert, I went to a concert by myself last night.

[Sean Gentile]

It's a big step.

[Haley Salvine]

For the first time. I was so brave. And I just thought to myself, well, there's this very expensive ticket I could buy. It's a solo ticket. I'm not going to wait around to see if anyone can go and see if there's double tickets. So I can either go to this pod. This concert by myself, or I don't go and see Haley Williams, who has been my, like, favorite artist, my favorite Record of the year. So I went by myself.

[Sean Gentile]

I would say you did not let 30s. Your 30s have officially begun today. That's a sign of. That's.

[Haley Salvine]

I've never even gone to the movies alone, so this was huge for me. So, anyways, I'm in line for like an hour. I'm 300 meters away from Massey Hall. That's how deep this line was. And I went way before doors open. I'm bored. I'm scrolling Twitter. All I can see is Sens fans blowing up about the latest clips. Not just one clip. The latest clips from Matthew and Brady Chuck's show. It really killed the time for me, genuinely. Thank you. Sense fans really keeping the news cycle alive with this podcast. But I wanted to ask you, Sean, so some context. One of the clips I saw going around was. And their dad, Walt Tkachuk was on the show with them. This was before, like, another Tkachuk bowl. Sens and Panthers were playing against each other. So they're all together. The Chuck brothers are doing their little paid autograph signing. We're not getting into that. We're not. I'm. I'm not talking about that. I've chosen to ignore that. That was the thing. So there's one clip I saw going around because we can't play it for everyone. You can go find it if you want. Walt said they're talking about the salary cap going up. It's this much. Now it's going up again. And Walt goes, brady, how many years do you have Left? Embrace this. 2. And then Walt and Matthew do a couple, like, nice timing. That's for another day. And then there's another clip going around of Walt talking about, you know, he says something like, oh, my God, this team. My pinky hurts. I had a bad sleep. I can't play today. There's risk management. He said, oh, my God, it's disgusting. In reference to Senators players not being in the lineup was my read on the situation. And Matthew's kind of trying to get it on the rails, being like, okay, okay, let's move on, let's move on. And Brady just kind of has his head down, doesn't say anything. So these are the two clips that I saw going around that sense fans have specifically locked in on. And my question for you, Sean, just knowing that context, you've watched the clips again, everyone, like, watch the show, watch their podcast or listen to their podcast if you want the full context. I know these are just social media clips, and I'm just trying to read them to you guys. But Sean, like, knowing what you've watched, do fans have like a reason to be this upset about what we've kind of seen there?

[Sean Gentile]

Yes, yes. I. Look, I. The Ottawa senator fan base, I think understandably, is a little reactive when it comes to this sort of stuff. This is for good. This is for good reason. I am not criticizing them for that. The amount of off ice, drama, weirdness, whatever, that has affected that team, not just this season, not just the last five, the last ten. There's a long list of stuff like this to take place and kind of color the situation in Ottawa going back a long, long way. The sense fan base is right to be reactive and, or overreactive to this stuff. And we've come to, we've come to expect that they're a little bit touchier about this stuff than the average. Right. So I thought for a split second when I started watching those clips that maybe that's what this was. And it wasn't. That ain't what this is. If they're mad about this, if they're concerned about this, if they're scratching their heads and swearing to themselves about, about this, completely justified. I don't know why this clip was released. I. It's. It, it's fair, it's fair to wonder in a lot of different directions. And if I were a sens fan, given the way things have worked out again, not just, not just over the last 24 hours, but over the course this full season, I'm saying, wtf? When I, when I watch this. Completely valid response.

[Haley Salvine]

Yeah, My main thought when I watched both clips and the one I saw first was him being like, oh, this team. My pinky hurts. Da, da, da. And like, Brady's not joining in on it, but like we host podcast, there's been times where like I mispronounce a name or I say something where I'm just like, you know what? Hey, Jeff, Producer Jeff. Or like, sweet King, can you delete that? I don't think.

[Sean Gentile]

I never do that sound.

[Haley Salvine]

Can you, can you delete that? I said this wrong. That's a bad stat. Or let's retake the shot.

[Sean Gentile]

I live with my mistakes. I say I, I never ask Jeff fix anything.

[Haley Salvine]

Sean, it's that simple to just go to your producer during the show, after the show, hey, let's take that out. And as. And as the captain of an NHL team that is going through another season filled with theatrics and drama, and in a season where this podcast specifically has led to some of that in terms of like, the clips going around and fans being upset and, like, clips going viral and, like, there's just been so much heat on Brady because of this show where I'm like, number one, why are you even doing this in season? Because, like, you're pissing off the fan base every single day, whether it's right or wrong, whether they're sensitive or not. Like, why are you doing this? Like, it's literally just turning into, like, a PR nightmare on a weekly basis. And number two, why would you not just go to your producer and be like, hey, can we take that clip out of my dad ripping on the team I'm the captain of.

[Sean Gentile]

Let me. Let me say quickly in response to that, the. The guy that we saw talking in those clips was not Brady Tkachuk, Ottawa Center's captain. That was Brady Tkachuk, Matthew Tkachuk, little brother, and Keith Tachuk, son. He was right.

[Haley Salvine]

That's what I mean, though. Like, you don't have. That is say, hey, dad, knock it off. Take that cap off, put your sense jersey back on and say, hey, can we maybe take that out of the show? It's gonna look bad. Nope, because now I'm getting heated. Because it's like that you're in little brother mode.

[Sean Gentile]

Maybe don't say that.

[Haley Salvine]

Text your producer. An hour later, you go home and you're like, maybe a little anxiety's keeps, like, coming in. You're like, maybe that's Flip side to that.

[Sean Gentile]

The flip side of that is maybe they didn't care. Maybe. Maybe nobody involved thought it was.

[Haley Salvine]

And that's a problem.

[Sean Gentile]

And that is arguably a bit, maybe inarguably a bigger problem. Like, it's one thing if. If you're. If you're Brady and you get. And you get caught up in a discussion where your. Your brother and your father are chopping wood, and you're just like, okay, whatever. And you. And you. And you screw up and don't tell the producer to delete it. That's. That's one thing. If it's something else, if there's another degree of intentionality to it or whatever, that's where things start to get really messy. And the problem for Brady and the problem for the Senators is that they've completely left that door open. It is choose your own adventure to anybody who's listening to those clips, right? Like, the full context of it makes it worse. It makes it more confusing. And people are right to be skeptical and wonder why that stuff got out, because it was honestly bizarre to see. And like I said before, I fully expected to watch it and think that it was the Senators fan base being. Being overreactive. 10 seconds. And I was like, nope, not. Not what this is. And whatever fallout comes from this is completely, directly and unquestionably on the tachuks. And it's. And it's on Brady and whatever that, whatever the consequences are there, man, he's got to live with.

[Haley Salvine]

Yeah. And like, some of the context of what's been going on in Sens land too. Like, Linus Ulmark has been taking some serious heat for missing Saturday's game against the Lightning. Travis Green head coach said he needed some rest. He's unavailable. Fans don't like that you're our number one goal. You're making this much money, you're back with the team. We're glad that you're feeling better. But, like, you gotta play is the thought. Frankie Corrado talked about this literally yesterday. Right? He's taking some heat right now. Three days later, he's back in. He has his rest, gets lit up by the others, gets pulled, allowing five goals first one eight seconds into the game sends lose six to three. So fans have been venting some frustration about all Mark himself. So, like, maybe it's not that crazy for a podcast that talks about the sends to have someone being like this is ridiculous, but it just feels and means a little different when it's coming from like the Data. The captain and Keith didn't say anyone by name specifically, but when he's being like, you know. And to be fair, I think he kind of made fun of Brady at one point because Brady was out for like six to eight weeks after thumb surgery. So, like, Keith kind of made fun of Brady too. Just being like, oh, my pinky hurts. I'm out for six to eight weeks. Like Brady. That might have been making fun of Brady, but then it goes into like, I had a bad sleep. There's risk management. People used to play back to backs. Like, it's disgusting. Like, that's where it's just like, you know what like is? Maybe it's more okay for fans to like and maybe that's me being unfair. Like, now I'm wishy washing on it of just like, is Keith Tkachuk saying anything different than a lot of fans are? But I think it's the fact that it's the captain's dad going on a show and being like, this is disgusting. Like, it's just not a good look to have like the Data, the captain chirping the franchise and the captain just kind of Sitting there.

[Sean Gentile]

The. The issue is that Brady just sat there. He didn't. Like. Like, if. If you want to go all in and have the discussion, and if you really want to go in, almost like, PR mode, PR brain. If. If you're Brady, you push back and you. And you get into an argument with your dad over it, and you say, like, you know, here's. Here's why you're wrong and whatever. That ain't what happened.

[Haley Salvine]

Or you text your producer and say, pull that 10.

[Sean Gentile]

There were a lot. There were a lot. There were a lot of different choices that Brady could have made in the wake of all that, and he made none of them for sure.

[Haley Salvine]

Yeah.

[Sean Gentile]

And that's. And that's the problem.

[Haley Salvine]

Yeah. It's just a little tough. I don't know what to make of it, but it killed my hour wait in line. I just saw that and was like, poor Ian Mendez,

[Sean Gentile]

who.

[Haley Salvine]

Seriously, like, I feel like. I feel like every week I'm seeing something blow up on Twitter from that podcast.

[Sean Gentile]

Yep.

[Haley Salvine]

And it just makes me wonder, like, do we need this? Do we need it here?

[Sean Gentile]

We need it because we just got. We just got 15 good minutes of talking about it. I'm not. I'm not gonna complain.

[Haley Salvine]

I feel like I'm like, I don't even know what's going on anymore.

[Sean Gentile]

What's happening. We said it before, man. People who want hockey players to show personality and put themselves out there, be careful what you wish for. If you. If you're. If you're a Sense fan is upset about all this, you know, understandable. But it's a. It's a monkey's paw situation. You want those guys to show your personalities. Show their personalities. Be prepared to not like what you see. And I. And I. I. I think that's part of it.

[Haley Salvine]

Yeah. I just think it signals, like, the clips specifically of them being, like, two more years left. Ooh, good timing. Lots of conversation for another day. The most charitable way to look at that is dad Keith being excited that Brady can get a bag in two years. And then there's that, like, if you're a Sense fan, you're not going to. You're not going to look at it that way. You're going to be like, oh, is he leaving us? Is our captain going on a podcast and joking about leaving? And again, like, whatever. Like, yeah, show personality. Have your show. Talk to your brother. Talk to your dad. But, like, these just feel like unforced errors by a captain of a franchise with a fan base that have gone through A lot of shit with their captains, with their team in general over years and years. Like we have the Eric Carlson, you know, getting scratched for being late to practice. I think he was captain at the time. You have the Hoffman Carlson debacle, You have Uber Gate. You have everything that happened with the owner. Now this is the problem is like this was supposed to be like the new era. Here's the young guys, we have a new owner, new gm. Like things are going to be going well and better in Ottawa. Arena is coming and instead you have a fan base that are just like doom scrolling and like spiraling over clips from this podcast every week. And I just think as someone who worked and lived in Ottawa, I just think that sucks that like this like media storm is. It's like weekly of like, here's the next horror for Sens fans courtesy of your captain show. Like, what are we doing here anyways?

[Sean Gentile]

No, and also like, sorry, he's sitting next to his bro. He's doing that, doing the two years, you know, interesting.

[Haley Salvine]

He's.

[Sean Gentile]

They're having that conversation. He's. He's. Or his, his, his father is, is floating that when, when one son forced his way out of, out of his. His previous team force, you know, twisted their arm and, and kind of forced them to trade him to the Florida Panthers like that.

[Haley Salvine]

To be fair, I think he was looking for a longer term deal before signing that bridge. But whatever,

[Sean Gentile]

it's.

[Haley Salvine]

Anyways, you sign a bridge deal and say, I'm getting the hell out of Calgary. And now, yeah, it's. None of this is happening in a vacuum. Like, if this is just like a buddy, buddy show, like with the brothers and dad, like we're, I don't know. See, this is where I'm gonna text producer Jeff, be like, did I overreact? Should I take that clip out? It's that simple. It's that simple. If you feel like, ooh, maybe I stepped in it, you can just ask your producer to take it out.

[Sean Gentile]

It ain't hard. Like I said, it's something I never do. It's something I never do and I never will do. I've never said a word on this pod that I've asked Jeff to remove. Not once. Not one time. Yeah, but I have the option.

[Haley Salvine]

I overreacted.

[Sean Gentile]

I have the option.

[Haley Salvine]

Yeah, it's that simple. All right, let's take a break before I say delete the entire segment because I've overreacted. All right, we're going to take a quick break. When we come back, the Boston Bruins. They're still among the best teams in the conference. Our pal Pluto Shinzawa is going to help us figure out why, because I'm confused about it. That's coming up next.

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[Haley Salvine]

All right. This time last season, the Boston Bruins were out of the playoff race with a roster that underwent significant change at the trade deadline. Moving out Brad Marchand, Brandon Carlo, Charlie Coyle. Other moves came in the off season. They finished 28th in the league standings. It looked like the bottom was finally going to drop out in Boston. That has not been the case. And I'm surprised Sean's surprised. Maybe everyone is. Maybe not Fluto, because you know, he's there with them every day. He could have Seen this coming. Fluto's the smartest guy in Boston. The Boston Bruins right now are fifth in the Eastern Conference in points. They're sitting comfortably first in the wild card with a masterfully retooled roster. To break it all down, we're going to bring in our Bruins writer, Fluto Shinzawa. We don't know how this is happening, so we brought in an expert. Pluto, what's up? How's it going?

[Fluto Shinzawa]

We'll try to explain, Haley, but, yeah, I'm right there with you.

[Haley Salvine]

Okay.

[Fluto Shinzawa]

No, this was not. I would have. I. I would have put money on this being yet another season of trying to, to get back into the playoffs. You know, maybe they'd be knocking on the door, but to be this comfortable in the wild card spot. Did not see it coming.

[Haley Salvine]

That makes me feel better then.

[Sean Gentile]

Fluta, when. When did you have to, like, when did you realize that this, that this was actually happening? I think is my. Is my first question because I, I'm not sure I really internalized and was like, oh, yeah, they are a lock to make the wild card until, you know, they hit 94 points. I'm sure it was earlier for you, but I'm wondering if there was, like, at some point during the season that, you know, where, where you were sold on them, on them, you know, ending up in the spot that they're in right now.

[Fluto Shinzawa]

No, it was even at the Olympic break. Sean, I'm thinking, and. And I had a very good conversation with John Healy, who's the CEO COO of ClearSight Analytics. So all the numbers are there. And it was. It was not even close in terms of expected goal share. All situations, like, they were underwater significantly. And they still are.

[Sean Gentile]

They still are.

[Fluto Shinzawa]

So if you, yeah, if you look at the numbers, you're thinking, okay, this is. This is going to hit the wall at some point. But if you look at the overall style of play, this team is always in the fight. They don't give up. They are relentless. They're. They are no fun to play in terms of being physical and, and, and fighting. And the goaltending had regressed to back to where Jeremy was. Back to Jeremy. So you see it all, but you're still thinking, okay, this is. This is. This can't be sustainable because you look at the numbers, it's still. Jeremy Swayman has performed above expected significantly. If, if he's not in the vezine of finalists, then the GMs don't know what they're doing, frankly.

[Sean Gentile]

And.

[Fluto Shinzawa]

But then you look on the flip side. They've been scoring way above expected in all situations, too. So you. You look at both sides, face it, they are performing above, literally performing above expectation. But then if you look at the roster, boy, there aren't any whiffs in terms of acquisitions, signings. They don't have many draft picks. That's been an issue here in Boston, but that's coming just because of what they did last year. James Higgins, he's right around the corner. They still have Toronto's first round brick. It's crazy in terms of how they've been able to manage both ends in terms of being a contender today and also retooling for tomorrow because that was pretty much job one because they had nothing in terms of futures. There's still work to do there. But you look at this on the fly rebuild that they've been able to execute, it's just a plus all around. A plus.

[Haley Salvine]

We can get into some of the trades throughout this conversation too. And the Fraser Minton one will continue to haunt Toronto and the Maple Leafs and their fans, but we can get into that in a few minutes. I wanted to start myself with Jeremy Swayman. Fluta, you already mentioned him, but 20 goals saved above expected since the Olympics. Best in the league. He is a.922 say percentage. Just how much has he been able to get this team where they are?

[Fluto Shinzawa]

He is absolutely number one. Number one reason, Haley, in terms of where they are, I think you could expect the year that he had last year just because all the circumstances stacked against them. First Linus Hallmark gets traded. They had a wonderful partnership. Wonderful. And it worked out so well for both of them that they could just go one. One guy in, one guy out. A pure rotation. It was. It was absolutely ideal for both goalies. But it came to a time because Jeremy's contract was up. He's younger than Linus, so Linus had to go. So they trade him. And that's. That's a big deal for Jeremy to lose that kind of partner and have to be the guy which. Which of course he wanted to be, but that's. That's big. And then number two, he misses all of camp because he's in a contract negotiation after arbitration, which he didn't like. That did not go well for him the year before. So he's angry. He doesn't sign until literally the day of their leaving to start the regular season down in Florida. So he's behind it and it just could never get on top of it. And then his. His team sucked. So, like, you Put all these circumstances together, you can understand why Jeremy struggled the way he did last year. But then you look at it was absolutely critical that he went to world championships and help USA win gold. Even there, he wasn't guaranteed to be the number one. Joy Decord was. I pretty sure he started the tournament and then Jeremy took over and then away they go. And that was such a big deal in terms of confidence for Jeremy just to reset and say hey, I can play. So you knew that it was going to come back to his level because he's a top five goalie all day. But yeah, he's been. I go through my mind, I can't think of any goals that he's let in that shouldn't have gone in. He's been tremendous. He's had to be tremendous because last I checked all situations Bruins are second worst in terms of expected goals against. This is not a good defensive team. So he's out to be. He's, he's taking goals off the scoreboard. So yeah, he's, he's far and away number one reason why they are so they have seven games left. They have a couple of back to backs. But he started back to back Columbus and I can't remember he did go two and two. So maybe they do that but, but at this point they're so comfortable in that second spot that maybe like okay, we'll, we'll, we'll pace him into the playoffs. But he's been tremendous, fluid.

[Sean Gentile]

I think the biggest, the biggest issue for me with their roster going into this, into the season, this is not a surprise was the center depth chart. Like I, I looked at that in October and was like, you know, all due respect to the guys who are involved, you know, Leah Lindholm, Pavel Zaka, we assumed Frazier Minton at that point but you look at that and you say this isn't the center depth chart of a team that's going to have 94 points on April 2, let's say. So let's maybe look at it through that lens. What has changed with them down the middle over the course of this season, at least relative to where we thought they would be. Because they've gotten good, certainly good enough play and obviously Minton has a ton to do with that.

[Fluto Shinzawa]

Yeah, good enough is a good way to determine like this is not, it's still not ideal because if you look at the roster, that's the one player, Elias Lindholm that you're thinking at that price tag, at that investment, that's a lot. And at five on five. He's been, he's been good on the power play. He's delivered on that on that first unit. He's actually had to play second unit most recently. But five on five. Yeah, it's not ideal. So you can see because he started the year as a number one center with Posternard and they've moved him down recently to the third line. He's playing with Morgan Geeke and Lupus Reichel and he's, he's been, he's been serviceable there and he's gotten hot lately. But yeah, Pawel ZAKA, I think 28 goals, career high. He's been, he's been very, very important. The coach loves him. He actually started the year at left wing on number the second line just because they thought Casey Middlestadt would be the second line center or at least they wanted to give him a try. Casey because when he arrived from Colorado last year he wasn't good and he didn't have a good camp either. So they're thinking, oh, this isn't going to work. Casey actually got healthy scratch for one game in October and then they move him to number two left wing. This is a natural center. So they're playing Casey out of position on the left wing. He's been very good. That whole line has been their best line. Little set left Zaka, middle. Victor arvidsson who's been five on five, top five in the league in terms of points per 60 at number two right wing. But yes, Zaka has been critical and Minton, he's, he's. Yeah, he started the year as your 3C and now he's, he's top line center with posh. Uh, is he a first liner long term? Probably not, but that could be. He's definitely number three for the rest of his career. Maybe. Yeah, maybe there's enough touch enough hands. The feet aren't, aren't high level. Fraser, but he's only 21. Maybe he gets a little bit quicker, plays with a little bit more pace. That could be number two center. So. And then you still have the first round pick coming in. So yes, still work to do. Maybe Higgins, maybe he's your long term center. He's been playing left wing mostly at Boston College and improvements. But yeah, you have to look at the Zaka thing as, as absolutely critical piece as to why they are where they are.

[Sean Gentile]

Is there like an immediate short term plan for Higgins, for them? Can we expect to see him at some point here?

[Fluto Shinzawa]

I think it's wait and see right now because you Don't. They don't really need him. There was a point where because they were trying to Alex Steeves first they tried Mikey Asimot. They weren't getting anything from that number three left wing with Lindholm and Geekie. But Reichel, they give him a six round pick. You do that all day with Vancouver. He's come in, he's been, he's been good, lots of speed, lots of skill and he's just been able to hold his ground and give them some pop there on that third line. So there's no real need for them to accelerate the development process for James. And they like to start these guys in Providence. They always point to the McAvoy thing because he left similar situations sophomore year. He's at bu. He signs his ato. The plan was for him, Charlie, I think it was 2017 to finish out the year in Providence, not even see NHL games. It just so happened that guys started dropping left and right on D and they needed a defenseman to play in the playoffs against Ottawa. That first run he comes up, he takes off. See you later. That's it. But the plan was for him to start his entry level deal the following year. Maybe that'll be the deal. Maybe they give him a chance up top. We'll see. I think it's just day by day, it's been ideal in terms of where the team is, where he is. There's no rush.

[Haley Salvine]

So some of the players you mentioned, Fluto, just before we started talking about Hagins, a lot of them have been acquired by the Bruins via trade in the last year. Victor Arvidsson, Casey Middlestadt, Pavel Zaka, Fraser Minton. And these are all deals that have aged very well for the Boston Bruins, not so well for the teams that were dealing with, with Don Sweeney. Is there a deal that stands out to you the most? Like what was the biggest Don Sweeney fleece? When we look at what they gave up and the impact that player has made on this team this season, it's

[Fluto Shinzawa]

actually hard to make that call.

[Sean Gentile]

There's a lot, I saw a lot of, I saw a lot of A pluses on the report card for Don Sweeney that you put together, rightfully so

[Fluto Shinzawa]

you go down the list. There's not, there's not a stinker. Um, it's been like you could argue that for what they gave up. Justin Brazzo to Minnesota, who's now in Pittsburgh, was a pure rental for Minnesota. They got back Marat, who's the need of, who's been at times. He was their number one center, number one left wing. It's 23 years old and he's making pretty much minimum wage and he's got double digits and goals and assists. So that's one A plus all around for that one. Just because of. You give up. Literally. Minnesota has nothing left to speak for that player.

[Haley Salvine]

Yeah. Brazo is having a career year in

[Sean Gentile]

Pittsburgh Penguins and Kyle Dubas are like twisting that one. Yeah.

[Fluto Shinzawa]

But then I guess the obvious one is Minton. Just because. Why did Carlo do for Toronto last year? Not much. And this year is a. Is. Forget it. And then Minton is. He could be wearing a letter for Boston someday.

[Sean Gentile]

Yeah.

[Fluto Shinzawa]

Just. Just the coach loves him. Teammates, they give him a hard time just because he's a kid. But. But they all love him. He's growing his game. And then there's a matter of a. What if, say Toronto finishes six worst and the Bruins get the six number six pick in 2026.

[Sean Gentile]

That's.

[Fluto Shinzawa]

That could be a player that steps right in to the lineup next year. It's. It's incredible. And Carlo's gonna walk.

[Sean Gentile]

Would maybe help with that defensive group too. I know, I know. That's where, that's where they're, you know, there's, there's options, there's options there at number six for sure.

[Fluto Shinzawa]

For sure. So yeah, that, that's, that's one. That, that's. That's probably the obvious one. But then you look, they got back okay. Corpusolo, he's been, he's been okay as your number two goalie. And, and yes, he's, he's the, the pay for. For what he is. It's a little bit high, but they got back Mark Castle from Ottawa and he's been, he's been terrific as third line right wing.

[Sean Gentile]

He.

[Fluto Shinzawa]

He fought Matthew Olivier the other night. Of all the guys, I don't know why anybody wants to fight that guy, but that was actually a critical fight. They're down two nothing against Columbus. They stink in the first period. That's. That's a fight after Jano fights Erica Granson and that helps things turn around. And they eventually win in the shootout four to three. But they got back Kaslak, they got back Corpusallo and they got back a 20, 24 first round pick which they used on Dean Maternal. This monster center at BC actually didn't score his freshman year, but then scores 22 goals as a sophomore. Like there's some Tage Thompson in there and that's the Allmark trade. And what's all Mark done for Ottawa, I don't think they're very happy with him.

[Sean Gentile]

Nothing, Nothing good up there.

[Fluto Shinzawa]

Yeah, that's tough. So that's, that's thievery for the Bruins. So. Yeah, it's, and then there's soccer. There's Arvidson. I, I can't even think. There's been so many.

[Haley Salvine]

Yeah, it's so, it's so surprising because to me I was like, oh, well, it's got to be Victor Arvidson. Right? And we didn't even really mention him because it's just like, yep, great trade. He's one of the best five on five players this season. Like, good job. It only cost you a fifth rounder in 2027. But then you keep going down the list and you're like, yeah, you're right. Like the, for the Fraser mentioned deal is aging like bagged milk.

[Sean Gentile]

There's. Oh my God. I know. And there's, and there's other ones in there. Pluto, you mentioned, you mentioned the Middlestadt deal. I mean I, all credit to Casey Middlestadt for turning his career around this season because he was a tweener as it related to positional stuff really for the last, for the last several years. He's given them great minutes there. But I think what makes that a great trade for, for Boston is, is the, is, is kind of the other elements. Like you get a second round pick back in, in there too. So you have these instances where it's like it, it's quantity and it's quality. When you're talking about the returns, it really is, it really is kind of overwhelming to, to see. But I, I, I, we, we wanted to ask about, about Marco Sturm and about, about, about the head coach and about his involvement in this because a lot of these players, even when we're talking about the trades, they're players that, you know, struggled elsewhere for, for a variety of reasons. How much does Marco Sturm have to do with that? And is he getting enough pub in the Jack Adams race? Because I feel like his name doesn't come up quite as frequently as it should there.

[Fluto Shinzawa]

Well, on the second point, Sean, you can understand why like Buffalo, Lindy Roth.

[Sean Gentile]

Yeah.

[Fluto Shinzawa]

Rick Bowen.

[Sean Gentile]

Right. Everyone's like, well who's, who's playing for seconds. That's, that, that's kind of what the discussion is been. I, it's, it's fair.

[Fluto Shinzawa]

Dan Muse, right. Who thought, who thought Pittsburgh was going to. So yes, you can understand why Marco is, is, is in, in the weeds there. But mid. It's, it's a great There's a great example with Casey middlesat, okay, we've thought all along, I think he was number 8th pick overall and whenever his draft be was 2017, everybody thinks Casey thinks, okay, I'm an offensive guy, I'm a skilled center. I'm supposed to be point per guy, half wall, power play guy setting up line mates. It doesn't work out in Buffalo. He gets traded for Byron. It doesn't work out in Colorado. He comes to Boston last year, I think it was four goals and four game. Four goals, four assists and 17 games like nothing, nothing that moved the needle. You're looking at this player. Well, he's not, he's not going to gain traction here in Boston and then he gets healthy, scratched. He isn't great in camp. He has to move to left wing. But then Marco told the story the other day of how he approached Casey and said, look, you've had all this pressure and, and, and within too of being an offensive center, your whole crew, maybe that's not what you are, maybe you are not that player and that's okay. I need you to be a good 200 foot left wing. Because here's the one thing that he really identified in Casey is his wall work. It's exceptional. He's tops on the team in terms of picking pucks off the wall. And that's a skill that Casey has really worked on over the years with Adam Oates. In terms of pure skill development like he's, he's, he's not Kucherov good but he's, he's, he's pretty good at taking pucks off the wall. So that's, that's, that's a very important part of the job as a left wing. So I think that really gave Casey some, he could take a breath in terms of, okay, I'm not that guy. Maybe I will be at some point but for now, for this team and for this coach, I can be a number two left wing who plays 15 minutes. Second power play doesn't have to be point per game. Guy Zaka is going to do all the heavy lifting defensively. Middlesat and Arvinson can just play and they've been good off the rush. So that's a great kind of snapshot of what coaching can do. And overall, defensively, yes, they've struggled. They've been good off the rush though and Marco likes to clog things in the neutral zone so that's one area that's been good. And they like to go on the attack. So yeah, even if they lost the rest of their games here and they missed the playoffs. It's still a very good first step in terms of getting back to where they want to be organizationally. And that's been so much of Marco's influence. He's been direct, honest, good with his players. Yeah, it's, it's been a terrific job by the coach. And yes, he deserves to be there. You understand why he's not there in terms of that level of recognition. But everybody here knows he's in the.

[Sean Gentile]

He's in the also receiving votes category. He's in the. He's on the ballot somewhere.

[Fluto Shinzawa]

No question. Yeah, we'll see what the radio guys do.

[Haley Salvine]

Well, we could get like a little look at Lindy Ruff vs. Marco Sturm in the first round of the playoffs. If the playoff started today, it'd be Sabers Bruins. So Fluta, last question. Rapid fire for you. Can the Bruins win that playoff series?

[Fluto Shinzawa]

Sure. Because I think the goaltending will. Could be a difference maker if it's Buffalo. Okay. You understand why how Lyon and Lucan and have been very good for them. But you look at track record, playoff track record, pedigree. Jeremy has it. He was. This is two years ago now, I think, I can't remember now, but against Toronto, he was their best player against the Maple Leafs that year in the playoffs and he was, he was still very good against Florida in the second round. So he's had such a history of past playoff performance and this year that he can be a difference maker. I, I don't. I don't know that Buffalo has that. But they, they are who they are. Like Alex and Ukapeka for, for a reason. They just may. Maybe they will be, but they don't have that kind of. Of presence. So I'll say the goal technique can make a difference. I still think Buffalo is the better team overall. But if you just. You pinpoint because, because he's going to. Jeremy's going to start every game and who knows what the deal would be in Buffalo. So I'll say that could be a difference maker for the Bruins. Yes, they could win that series.

[Haley Salvine]

All right. Bruins play the Panthers in Florida on Thursday. They're 7, 2 and 1 in their last 10. They are locked into Wild Card 1, but they're only two points behind Mont the Atlantic. So maybe it's interesting, maybe we don't actually get our Bruins Sabers first round playoff. But if you're a Sabers fan listening to this, maybe you're happy about that. You don't want to face Jeremy Swayman. Thank you so much, Pluto, for this. We're going to take a break. We got a maybe a little seagull bomb. I don't like that. There's some news from Jonas. We can talk about Seagull. Thanks, Pluto.

[Fluto Shinzawa]

Okay, guys.

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[Haley Salvine]

All right, we're back. I think I overreacted.

[Sean Gentile]

Interesting.

[Haley Salvine]

There's no news bomb and no seagull bomb. Seagull didn't. It didn't roll off the tongue and maybe my Canadian accent came out a little bit. So like I said seagull and bum, which led to some confusion.

[Sean Gentile]

No one thought you said bum. I thought you said seagull. That's why. That's. That was the only source of confusion.

[Haley Salvine]

Did you. But like. Anyways, did you think that there was a seagull in.

[Sean Gentile]

Yes, because. Because there. No, I thought there was a seagull. A seagull in the Panthers practice facility because I've seen birds in there before. Like it? It is. It is a lovely place. But there's a lot going on out front sometimes, so I seriously thought you spotted a seagull behind Pluto and just

[Haley Salvine]

was like a bird in the middle of my outfit.

[Sean Gentile]

I would do that. I would do that if. If I saw a. A bird. Buzz. Our buddy Pluto.

[Haley Salvine]

Pluto just sat there, sat there, sat

[Sean Gentile]

there very professionally being, like, stoic. Please, please leave me alone. Am I free to leave?

[Haley Salvine]

If you're watching on YouTube, it's great stuff. I think I went red because I was giggling so hard. And he just sat there being like, are we done? Are we done here? But the Jonas news. He and Chris Johnson just dropped an exclusive. William Nylander wants to stick with the Maple Leafs if they retool. So this is like, build. Yeah. So this was the news again. I fear I maybe overreacted. This is interesting. It is an exclusive. This is from Jonas. And this is William Nylander talking after practice on Wednesday. And I guess I should say some context. Like, the future of just about everyone with the Toronto Maple Leafs is up in the air right now. Like, Brad Tree living gets let go. Keith Pelly has, like, a fascinatingly strange press conference earlier this week, and William Nylander to Jonas made it clear he. He wants to stay in Toronto if they remain committed to chasing Stanley Cups and not tearing it all down. The quote from Nylander, quote, unless it was a full rebuild and we were going to get rid of everybody, then that's a different story. Then you take that conversation then. But to just do a retool or whatever, I don't even know. But I mean, I still want to be here. Yeah.

[Sean Gentile]

If it's a rebuild. Guess what? If. If they commit to a rebuild, that means trading William Nylander and he's saying

[Haley Salvine]

that he wouldn't want to be around anyways, so they would be in alignment there.

[Sean Gentile]

That's kind. I mean, that's. I think it's important to get. It's good to get him on. On record by. By saying this, but, you know, I don't know what he's thinking. I wouldn't want to be a part of a rebuild. It's like, well, right, dude, you would not be part of a rebuild. You would be.

[Haley Salvine]

You would, you know, trade everyone in a rebuild.

[Sean Gentile]

I think. I think it. They don't have.

[Haley Salvine]

And he has a full no move. So he does have a say in that.

[Sean Gentile]

If it would. If it would reach rebuild status, then you would be talking about trading guys like William Nylander. I mean, in. In awesome. Matthews, what are. These guys are almost 30, right? And then Also by.

[Haley Salvine]

But like, I'm just saying it, he does have a full no move. And if he so decided to be like, nope. He. He could. He's clearly saying he would say, yeah. Huh? But he would also have a say in where he goes with the full no move clause in his contract. But.

[Sean Gentile]

Right.

[Haley Salvine]

Like, yeah, I think it's valuable to hear him say, like, yeah, if it's a re. Clearly, if it was a rebuild, the Leafs would want to trade him for assets anyways. But I don't think Nylander would be like, no, I want to stick around. I love it here. But if they're actually going to retool and commit to competing like the Boston Bruins have been doing, then he'd stick around. Nylander could be the Pasternak. As long as the retool around him happens in a productive manner or what.

[Sean Gentile]

I don't think. I don't think he could be.

[Haley Salvine]

You know what I'm saying? You know? You know what I mean? Okay.

[Sean Gentile]

He ain't David Pasternak.

[Haley Salvine]

I wasn't saying that. We were just talking to Fluto Bruins this. And that's an example of a retool that's worked with some foundational pieces in place.

[Sean Gentile]

I mean, I'm. I think my favorite line from that, honestly, is, we got another hall of Fame Keith Pelley quote, didn't we? I was unaware of this one. This was included in that. This is included in the story. You have him saying that a couple days ago that we have. We have four generational players. Austin Matthews, William Nylander, Matthew Nyes, John Tavares. Like, oh, cool. Four generational players. Matthew Nyes. I agree. I agree. Generational guy. Maybe he'll score 30 goals one of these years. You know, Crazy.

[Fluto Shinzawa]

He's a.

[Sean Gentile]

He's. He's my favorite. My favorite character to enter Leafs land over the last. Over the last couple years. A lot of. A lot of fun. First we get the. The. The. The. The treatise on AI. And now, now we're saying that William Nylander and Matthew Nyes are generational talents. The. The word means. The phrase means nothing at this point.

[Haley Salvine]

Are any of them generational talents?

[Sean Gentile]

No.

[Haley Salvine]

We probably would have said Matthews was like, three years ago, right?

[Sean Gentile]

Yep. Ain't it's. It's.

[Haley Salvine]

But like, is it fair to say he's no longer a generational talent because injuries messed him up? And why were we saying that three years ago when he wasn't the best goal scorer in the league? I just said, was he three years ago? And you said, yeah, you Just immediately contradicted yourself.

[Sean Gentile]

Everybody, every. Every season has someone who leads. Who leads the league in goals.

[Haley Salvine]

Yeah, but he was just leading the league in goal, Sean. He was, like, the best goal scorer in the NHL with, like, a shot.

[Sean Gentile]

I'm of the mindset. I'm of the mindset that when you're not the best player of your generation, you can't be generational. Call me crazy.

[Haley Salvine]

I think we throw that around too much, too.

[Sean Gentile]

Yep. It's. No knock. Him and David the same knock on all these. On all these incredible players. Austin Matthews may be leading the way. Like, you can't have a generation of players that has nine generational players in it. You can't be a team.

[Haley Salvine]

They were both. Connor McDavid and Austin Matthews were both born in 1997. So which one was the generational talent?

[Sean Gentile]

Yeah, you tell me. And if. And if, like, generations don't have 10 generational talents in teams that crash out and do what the Toronto Maple Leafs have done this year, don't have four of them. And I would. I also would. Would venture to just suggest that if they had four generational talents, they probably would have won more than one playoff round over the last however many years. But that's. That's. You know, Keith Pelley's a really. He's a really smart guy. Maybe AI told him that. That the Maple Leafs have four generational talents.

[Haley Salvine]

What are you talking about with the AI thing?

[Sean Gentile]

You missed that one.

[Haley Salvine]

What happened?

[Sean Gentile]

Keith Pelly loves AI Spent.

[Haley Salvine]

I thought he was talking about data analytics.

[Sean Gentile]

Just AI. Just generically.

[Haley Salvine]

I'm not going to look into this. Don't investigate this.

[Sean Gentile]

So you listen to the Wednesday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show.

[Haley Salvine]

Was this Frankie or McIndoo?

[Sean Gentile]

Who do you think? Who do you think brought up AI first?

[Haley Salvine]

I. I really could go either way.

[Sean Gentile]

It was me.

[Haley Salvine]

Oh.

[Sean Gentile]

Anyways.

[Haley Salvine]

Well, he did great stuff for the European Tour. My dad says.

[Sean Gentile]

Cool.

[Haley Salvine]

In 2024. My dad was really jazzed about the Keith Pelly hiring because of the PGA European Tour.

[Sean Gentile]

Maybe he can hire Jesper Parnavec to be the. To be the Maple Leafs president of hockey operations. What a joke.

[Haley Salvine]

I don't know. Is Leon Dry Seidel a generational talent

[Sean Gentile]

closer than Austin Matthews?

[Haley Salvine]

Then why haven't the Oilers won anything if they have two of them?

[Sean Gentile]

Stan Bowman, Peter Shirley.

[Haley Salvine]

Damn it. Foiled again. I was trying to defend my Toronto Maple Leafs.

[Sean Gentile]

If Keith Pelley. If Keith Kelly were on.

[Haley Salvine]

They're not mine. That was a joke.

[Sean Gentile]

If you're not Keith Pelly Were Keith Pelly were running the Oilers, he would be saying that Zach Hyman is a generational talent. No.

[Haley Salvine]

Ryan Nugent, Hopkins, Darnell Nurse, Warren.

[Sean Gentile]

Warren Fogel. Generational talent. It's a shame he misspoke.

[Haley Salvine]

He meant, like, we have elite talent, which is true. Like, like, don't. I'm. I'm not letting him slide on that because, like, you have. You do have all those pieces. They're not all generational talents, but you do have enough talent where, like, this season is inexperable.

[Sean Gentile]

That's Huckster.

[Haley Salvine]

No, but, like, to be. I'm not trying to defend Keith Pelly because the. The press conference was weird. Also, if you notice that he, like, matches his glasses to the background that he's sitting in front of. Very cool. And then I actually appreciate that. I think it's fun. That wasn't sarcasm, but, like, at the very least, they made the right step in firing Brad Tree Living because he did a bad job. Like, there is no ifs, ands, or buts. Like, the Leafs are worse off than when he started chat.

[Sean Gentile]

GPT told. It. Told Keith Pelly to fire.

[Haley Salvine]

Stop. I don't even know. Stop it. That's not true. Stop saying that. Are you sure we're gonna get a cease and desist? I. We love AI from the wing podcast and mlse. I don't even know what the Kachuk podcast is called. Is that what it's called?

[Sean Gentile]

It's definitely not that winged.

[Haley Salvine]

That seems like a Red Wings.

[Sean Gentile]

Mendez's nightmare is what it's called. It's the name of it.

[Haley Salvine]

I don't know the name of the show.

[Sean Gentile]

Doesn't matter.

[Haley Salvine]

It's irrelevant anyways. So that's the news from Jonas is that Nylander's open to staying if

[Sean Gentile]

they don't. If they don't. Okay.

[Haley Salvine]

I feel like I overreacted. And then we.

[Sean Gentile]

Yeah, I think maybe. Yeah.

[Fluto Shinzawa]

Yeah.

[Sean Gentile]

Possibly.

[Haley Salvine]

I got leaf spraying. I was like, whoa, breaking news.

[Sean Gentile]

Get out of here, Pluto.

[Haley Salvine]

I live in King West. Like, get your ass out of here. I don't care about the Bruins playing. Well, we have some news here down the street from my apartment that's very important for everyone to hear. Anyways, I wanted to talk about the Western Conference playoff race. Let's do it quickly. I'm. And now I feel bad that we spent so much time talking about beliefs when you should have stopped talking about AI.

[Sean Gentile]

It's Keith Belly.

[Haley Salvine]

That was your fault. I just think. Talking about it.

[Sean Gentile]

I just think Keith Pelly's really cool and smart. You know, and I went on your

[Haley Salvine]

Matthew's generational talent rampage and your AI rampage and it's actually your fault that we're not talking about the Sharks. You know who is a Jose Sharks?

[Sean Gentile]

Would you like to know who is a generational talent?

[Haley Salvine]

Yeah.

[Sean Gentile]

Macklin Celebrini. There is a generational talent and there is our transition back into talking about actual hockey.

[Haley Salvine]

I was trying to do it and you kept cutting me off.

[Sean Gentile]

No,

[Haley Salvine]

I was doing it in a like oopsies. We've gone too long on this way.

[Sean Gentile]

Yeah.

[Haley Salvine]

Anyways, well, we can talk about it now. So generational talent. Macklin Celebrini. Absolutely. He is four points to lead the Sharks to a huge comeback win against the Ducks last night. Alex Wenberg with the game winning goal. Here's some fun for you, Sean. On Monday, you and Max were saluting the San Jose Sharks. Salute to you, San Jose. You say for a job well done. You say you're not going to make the playoffs. Just keep losing. Get a high draft.

[Sean Gentile]

Way to go. Way to go, little buddies.

[Haley Salvine]

Congratulations. Congrats on all your successes. Now start losing. They haven't yet. 77 points on the season. 11 point behind the Los Angeles Kings who also won last night to move into that second wild card spot in the West. The Sharks have a game in hand though. What do you have to say for yourself?

[Sean Gentile]

The Sharks are in on points percentage in tiebreakers.

[Haley Salvine]

Yeah, but points percentage isn't how you get in, so that's irrelevant.

[Sean Gentile]

I'm just saying they're incredibly close. That's. That's the point.

[Haley Salvine]

Yeah, they're two points back with a game in hand. I just.

[Sean Gentile]

I was not wrong when I. When I said that I was not wrong. They were on a stress. They'd lost six straight. They'd gotten one point out of 12. I was not wrong. But since. Since Max and I spoke or since I really thought they were cooked. They've beaten Columbus and San Jose and the Ducks celebrating. He had nine points in those three games. Will Smith had seven. I. It's. Look, the. The Western Conference is a mess in a mosh pit and all it takes is a team winning three games in a row to really get themselves back in the race. But I was fool discount that the Sharks would do that. Honestly. Like it's in the fact that they beat the Ducks, who are the best team in the Pacific division last night is. Is. Is relevant. And that was a game that was fair to expect them to lose. But they didn't. Right. So I'm all in now. I think they might as well just see this to the end. Who cares if they end up with the ninth pick or the, or the 16th. Doesn't matter. I, I think, I think the world is a better place. The NHL world's a better. Is going to be in a better place with Macklin Celebrini in the, in the postseason. So yeah, you guys are, you guys are this close. We can shift once again out of amassing lottery odds mode and just like just, just get there and see what happens. Let's go.

[Haley Salvine]

I just want to share that in our lineup, Doc. Sean specifically wrote they lost six straight games and got one point out of 12. I was not wrong.

[Sean Gentile]

Do not put on the podcast that I was wrong. One point out of a possible 12

[Haley Salvine]

flushed out lineup of. Here's everything we're gonna do today. Sean just drops one sentence in. I was not wrong.

[Sean Gentile]

They need better players. I will. I will. I will not. I, I. That's obvious. And the easiest way to do that is to, is to pick as high as possible. They need better players. We see it night after night. Celebrini has a net rating of about 19, which is 11th among forwards. Incredible. Great job. Next up, Tyler to Foley with a five. That's not great that it's good. Tyler to fully useful NHL players still should not be your second most productive player. The gap there, which is about 14, is the between first and second place in net rating, is the biggest in the league. It's bigger than the one in Columbus. When we between Zach Warinski and number two there and we're talking about Zach Warrensky as like Nora's favorite potential hard candidate. There is a chasm in terms of effectiveness between Macklin Celebrini and the rest of that roster. But at this point, who cares? Address that elsewhere. Win a few more games, go into the playoffs on some kind of heater and see what happens against Colorado or whoever you get matched up against. I'm fully ready for it. And I was foolish to have written them off, you know, a few days ago.

[Haley Salvine]

Is there something to be said about getting that playoff experience versus a high draft pick? Like, I think there's value in that. Even if you go and get, I

[Sean Gentile]

think when it's clear that it's, it's, they're, they're, they're so close to it and it is this possible and they, and they haven't like continued, you know,

[Haley Salvine]

they have the hardest part. Figure it out.

[Sean Gentile]

They pulled themselves out of that spiral there because they were legitimately Playing poorly, but they aren't anymore. So you, so you got to figure at this point, is there more value to be gained from a playoff run of, of any length, whether it's four games or seven games or. Or 20 games. Is there more value in that versus picking, you know, 10th versus 16th? I, I'm at the point now where I would say so, and I'm not sure I was there a week ago, actually.

[Haley Salvine]

I also think.

[Sean Gentile]

I know for a fact that I was not.

[Haley Salvine]

I also think that, like, the Ottawa Senators are a great example of just like, finishing poorly and not making the playoffs and getting high draft picks doesn't exactly lead to long term organizational success success either. Like, Brady Tkachuk just played in his first playoff series a year ago.

[Warby Parker Announcer]

Right.

[Haley Salvine]

And that was a team that drafted high years and years and years in a row.

[Sean Gentile]

Michael Misa. Michael Misa has a brother. Maybe in a couple years those two guys can have a podcast that completely kneecaps what they're, what they're trying to do in San Jose. Who knows?

[Haley Salvine]

They're not knee capping the sand.

[Sean Gentile]

The Misa. The Misa brothers, That's a bit extra. I disagree.

[Haley Salvine]

They're not kneecapping. They're just giving Ian Mendez what I assume to be a headache on a weekly basis. He left the Athletic. I was about to say, damn it, that was my punchline. He left the Athletic because he couldn't handle me anymore. And that's fine. We all make choices. And now I'm your problem.

[Sean Gentile]

Big night of games tonight. Big night.

[Haley Salvine]

Yeah, big night. 14 games on the schedule. It's always busy on Thursdays. It's perfect for you and Dom and your power rankings. Penguins Lightning is a fun one to circle if we're looking in the Eastern Conference playoff race.

[Sean Gentile]

Yeah, the, the weird part for the Penguins is that this is no longer a must, a must have game, because they've gotten four points in their last two games against, against the teams that they're in direct competition with. So this is like, this is. If you're. Pittsburgh, this is a game that great. We'd love that. You know, love, love to beat Tampa, but it's, it's not, it's not necessary.

[Haley Salvine]

Jets stars could be. Could have some implications. As we discussed, the Western Conference playoff race, because it's not just San Jose that's gotten themselves back in it. The jets, if the jets coming alive

[Sean Gentile]

here, get two points against Dallas, man,

[Haley Salvine]

they are two points behind the Kings. They have 76 points, one point behind the Sharks. The Preds are still kind of in and around it. Even The Kraken, they're 3.03 straight for sure. The Sharks have won three straight. The jets have won two straight. They're 6, 2 and 2 in their last 10. So if the jets can beat the Stars, they're fully, fully back in it. The west wild card card. Spicy. This is fun. That's probably my game of the night is Jets, Stars and then in in

[Sean Gentile]

the east you got Detroit, Philly. That feels Both teams have 86 points. That's two points out of second place wild card. That feels almost like an elimination game there to me.

[Haley Salvine]

Yeah.

[Sean Gentile]

Pretty close to it.

[Haley Salvine]

Yeah.

[Sean Gentile]

That'll be fun.

[Haley Salvine]

Yeah. All right. Good night in the NHL. Thanks, Sean. Thanks to Fluto. Thanks everyone for listening to this episode of the Athletic Hockey Show. What makes it into the show? We'll find out.

[Sean Gentile]

Nothing makes it in if we don't want it to be in. That's the lesson to learn.

[Haley Salvine]

Max and l have our next show on Monday. Sean and I return next week. Linda Alar starting for the Sense tonight. By the way, good sabers Quinn Hughes facing the Canucks for the first time in Minnesota. Enjoy the games, everyone. Thank you.

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