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- [00:00]
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Matt
is Matt from P1 with Matt and Tommy and this episode is sponsored by ebay. The cars you'll find on ebay are just different. They come with a story that you can't wait to share. Like this 1973 Dodge Charger on ebay that has been tucked away in an Arizona Barn for over 40 years. Only 55,000 miles and somehow in great running order, it even has a rare sunroof. Suddenly, a car that was hidden for decades is being delivered in just a few clicks with ebay's secure purchase. All the paperwork handled. There are thousands of cars on ebay, from unique finds like the Pontiac Grand Prix SJ to daily drivers. And now with a new way to buy them ebay things people love.
- [01:57]
Mark Lazarus
This is the athletic hockey show. Hello and welcome to the Athletic Hockey Show. I am Mark Lazarus in Chicago. He is Jesse Granger in Las Vegas. We've got a great show planned for you today. The Olympics and the trade deadline are finally behind us, so we can start looking at the playoffs, which are really only about a month away. We're going to look at the five first round series we most want to see. We're also going to talk about Connor Bedard's inevitable captaincy in Chicago and how young is too young to wear the sea. And in a moment, we're going to look at our favorite under the radar, trade, acquisitions. But first, my God, Jesse, we have to talk about Sunday night Sabres Lightning game. Easily one of the best, one of the wildest, one of the nuttiest games that we've seen all season. 8, 7. The Sabres win in comeback fashion. I think it was five fights, dozens of scrums, more than 100 penalty minutes. The atmosphere in Buffalo was just electric from start to finish. Go read Matt Fairbairn's piece recapping the night on the Athletic. But, Jesse, after 14 years of walking through the wilderness, the Buffalo Sabres are back.
- [03:04]
Jesse Granger
They're back. And, man, this team is fun. It was so cool last night because it's one of the better hockey games of the season in terms of entertainment value. And sometimes those games just happen out of nowhere. But I love that it was. This was billed as the biggest game in Sabres. Like, people were talking about the biggest game in 10 years because it's for first place in the division. It's the big, bad Tampa Bay Lightning coming to town. When the game you expect to be great delivers like this, that's as good as it gets. And yeah, I cannot wait to see this team in the playoffs. They're. They're fun. They filled the penalty box and they filled the net with pucks.
- [03:39]
Mark Lazarus
As a goalie, are you even capable of enjoying a game with 15 goals?
- [03:43]
Jesse Granger
I am, because that's the thing. It's like, you can't. You can't enjoy the light without the darkness. You can't enjoy the saves without, like, if, like, honestly, like, people. People think I'm against the NHL being as offensive as it is and as skilled and as talented. That just makes the goalies more important. The defensive games are boring for me. I want. I want lots of chances. Now, every once in a while, the goalies got to save them, but every once in a while, they can not save any. Like, last night, it was. It was so funny. I'm in the press box getting ready for Edmonton, Vegas to here. Here in Las Vegas. And it was like everybody in the press box is just like yelling down the press box like, it's seven, five. Now it's seven six. Now it's seven seven. Now it's eight seven. It was just like every 30 seconds they were scoring. What a game.
- [04:29]
Mark Lazarus
So we're always trying to come up with new ways to get new eyeballs and earballs on our show. So. So hear me out. I'm thinking we should consider renaming the Athletic Hockey Show. Everybody hates Rasmus. To capitalize on the NHL's newest craze. Which is trying to seriously injure Rasmus Dalin. First Evgeny Malkin tried to, I don't know, Ned Stark him, and then Brandon Hagel is trying to rabbit punch him right through the ice. What in the wide, wide world of sports is going on with Rasmus Dalin?
- [04:54]
Jesse Granger
Yeah, and the Hagel play? Look, Hagel, this is kind of what he does, but not to that extent. I was, I was shocked watching the replay of it, how he went after him and just was punching him from behind after Darlene was clearly like, you could tell you kind of this is how they do it. They ask you want to go? And you could see Darlene's answer was absolutely not. I do not want to go. And tried to get away from that. And Hagel just kind of chased him down, punched him from behind, was hitting him on the ground. That was, I wouldn't be surprised if he gets suspended for that. And I was surprised at how aggressively he chased Darling down and hit him from behind like that. What did you think of it?
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Mark Lazarus
Yeah, well, Darling did fight earlier in the game and it didn't go well for him at all. So I mean, he just seems to be at the center of everything. But Hagel, yeah, I, I agree with you. You know, you kind of get away, you, you can get away with one punch, one kind of sucker punch sometimes in the action like that. But he kept punching him as he was driving him down to the ice. It's so dangerous, you know, slamming him face first ice while rabbit punching him like that. I do think that's suspendable. Just like Malkin got. Was it five games for trying to like chop Darlene's head off? I, I don't know Brandon Hagel. I, I, I, I don't, I don't want to keep that, I wanna, want to put that explicit tag on our next to the podcast name here. But like, is Brandon Hagel the preeminent? My dad would call him a schnorer. Just these, the blank disturber. Is he, has he become the new Brad Marchand kind of this flashpoint character where everywhere he goes, little Brandon Hagel is causing the most drama everywhere?
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Jesse Granger
I think so. And this, now this game was a, was an extreme example, but I feel like Tampa Bay gets in these types of games more than any team in the league. Like they are regularly involved in these types of games. It's, they've got a lot of fire on that team. Some guys that haven't had the success that they'd like over the last, in the playoffs, over the Last few years, they want to get back to another deep run and Hagel's the center of that. And it's going to make for a really entertaining playoffs, especially that division. Stacked like it always is. It's. I think Tampa Bay is about as entertaining of a team as And Buffalo, and we got to see them combine last night. But I think both those teams on a nightly basis are about as entertaining as we see in the league right now.
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Mark Lazarus
Yeah, I was there in the preseason in South Florida when the Lightning and the panthers combined for 322 penalty minutes in a preseason game. But. But it's always the Panthers that have had that reputation with Sam Bennett and Brad Marchand and Aaron Eckblad and the like. But it really feels like the Lightning, they're the one that bring this out in everybody. Now. They've kind of. They were this skill team for so long that just beat you with their. With their grace and speed and skill. And they've kind of morphed over these last couple years into a little bit dirty, a lot nasty. And I feel like we need that in the NHL. You need one of these teams that just brings out the worst in everybody in the best possible way.
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Jesse Granger
Yeah. And then you've got Buffalo, who is just scoring on everyone. Like they, like they score eight in that game. That's pretty much par for the course for this team, the way they've been scoring lately. I mean, this team is. It's fun. Like you, you see all these draft picks and we like, I feel like a lot of these teams, Detroit, we've been talking about these teams for so long. They're the pro prospects they have, and they're finally becoming full fledged playoff contender teams. And Buffalo last. I mean, Tage Thompson, just an absolute laser beam every time he releases the puck. That team's got scoring on every line, it feels like. And Alex Lyon is playing great in net. It was. It was a battle of the backups last night. So I will say that even though it was 8 to 7, it's like. Well, neither of the starters played. Alex Lyon was on the bench. Vasilevsky was on the bench. It was a UPL versus Jonas Johansson showdown. But yeah, those two teams are fun. And it's looking, based on how good they're both playing, like we won't be able to see that possible matchup until the second round. But everybody's eagerly awaiting it after last night's amazing game.
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Mark Lazarus
Do you think Kevin Adams is proud of this team or just furious at the world right now?
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Jesse Granger
Probably Furious at the world, it seems.
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Mark Lazarus
I mean, he's really uncanny.
- [08:56]
Jesse Granger
The moment he's gone, it's like all of his work that he's been trying, his vision that just wasn't coming together and then he's out and then, boom, there's the vision.
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Mark Lazarus
It's going to be hilarious when Jarmo Kekalainen wins GM of the Year.
- [09:08]
Jesse Granger
Right?
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Mark Lazarus
But it's true. You talk about Buffalo in Detroit, and I feel like they're giving hope. You know, I had lost hope on both Buffalo and Detroit entering this year. I'm like, it's over. The rebuilds failed. They took so long and they failed. This gives a little bit of light at the end of the tunnel for your San Joses and your Chicago's and even like your Vancouver's right now, who are just starting this process that, yeah, it can be awful for a really long time to do it this way, but it can work. It just might work. You just might have to wait until These guys are 25 and 26 instead of 21 or 22 to become a Tage Thompson to become, you know, or Josh Doan's a little younger than that. But just to reach that level, you're seeing with Anaheim a little bit. San Jose is a little paper tiger. It's all overtime wins. Like, that's not really a playoff team right now. But they're getting there. It can be done. It's rare and it's hard, but these two teams are giving a lot of hope. And I think we're going to be talking about this Buffalo team the way we talked about the. What was it? The 2019 Blues. 2018 Blues, who were in dead last in December and made a run to the Stanley Cup. The Sabres are the new Blues, where you're going to say, hey, just because you're out of it at Thanksgiving doesn't actually mean you're toast.
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Jesse Granger
It also in the fact that everybody feels to be like. It seems like that's kind of everybody's second favorite team. Like, I remember that year the Blues had the Gloria song. And like everybody, it's like, if my team doesn't win, I wouldn't mind if that team wins. I feel like that's kind of how every hockey fan feels about the Sabers right now.
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Mark Lazarus
Yeah, I mean, it's such a great market. They've gone 14 straight years without the playoffs, but they're still the number one market for TV ratings of the playoffs every year. Like, Chicago is an awesome Blackhawks town. It's not a hockey town. Nobody Here watches the playoffs once the Hawks aren't in them. It's, it's, I've always said this. It's, it's a Blackhawks town, not a hockey town. Buffalo's a hockey town, Detroit's a hockey town. Minneapolis is a hockey town, like Boston is a hockey town. And it's really cool to see a team like that, a fan base like that, finally rewarded for, I don't want to say patience because they've been very impatient and very loud about it for a long time, but they're finally being rewarded for sticking through it and still being a fan. It's cool to see.
- [11:04]
Jesse Granger
Yeah. And like I said, that game last night, for season ticket holders that have suffered through a lot of meaningless games, they like that. Like I said, it delivered like it was, this wasn't just a random Wednesday night game that was like, oh my God, that might have been the best game of the season. Like this is the, the game every season ticket holder was waiting for. Like, finally we've got this game against the Lightning for first place and then you've got an 8, 7 game with a hundred penalty minutes.
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Mark Lazarus
Yeah, they, they no longer need to wait for the Maple Leafs to come into town to sell out that building because they're, they're showing up in droves. All right, well, one of the, the, the many, many guys who scored in that game was Corey Perry, who's now got two goals in two games since being traded to Tampa from LA. We are 15 years removed from his 50 goal 99 point MVP season. The dude can barely skate at all, but he's a perfect example of what I want to talk about today. These under the radar trades that could have a real impact in the playoffs. I mean, obviously there's your name brand deals. You're like our Tammy Panarin and John Carlson, Mackenzie Weger, Nazem Kadri, Justin Falk. But I think a guy like Perry, who can still just plant himself in front of the net, box out defenders and knock in greasy goals as well as anybody in the league, still, even at his age, that's the kind of pickup that makes a good team great. When you get that third liner who just lengthens the lineup and gives you a third scoring line, or a guy who could pop in on the second power play unit and make it just as effective as the first, those are the kind of trades that I think really make a difference in this league. Who do you like that got moved that maybe isn't a huge star?
- [12:30]
Jesse Granger
Yeah. And Perry's a Great example. I was shocked at how good his underlying metrics were. I feel like the experiment in la we all kind of figured like that had failed. And then you see the underlying metrics and it's like actually Corey Perry's been really good this year. The guy, the guy I got to see him right after Minnesota acquired him, Bobby Brink from, from Philadelphia. Minnesota was here in Vegas and the Wild looked good in that game and Brink really stood out. Like I was surprised how often he pops when you're watching the game. He's a flashy player with the puck. Like you'll just kind of throw it over to him in transition. It's like a nothing play and all of a sudden he's like between his own legs around the defenseman and now you've got a guy in on just alone with the goalie. I think that Minnesota team, they're, they're weak up the middle and that's concerning. But man, they've got so much talent on the wing and on the back end to kind of like fuel that like speed up the ice. Like their defensemen just get their forwards the puck at the right times on like everything about it is perfect. The way their transition offense operates, the centers are a little concerning, but Brink just adds another super talented winger. They've just got so much firepower on the outside, so much skill and it's going to be a brutal run through that Central division. You're going to have to score goals. I just think Brink gives them one more guy with great hands on the outside that can put the puck in the net.
- [13:51]
Mark Lazarus
Couldn't agree more. I do think Bill Garon is going to regret not going out and getting a Vincent tro check. They obviously needed it. This is a absolute all in for right now season for the Wild. We're trying to finally get past the first round and make some do some real damage. They are the second or third best team in the league depending on what month we're in. This is a legitimate Stanley cup contender. But their number one center is Ryan Hartman, a player I like. I like Ryan Hartman as a player but he is not a number one center on a contending team. Joel Erickson ek, you could say he's the de facto number one center but he's really, he's on that second line. I love Joel Erickson ek, but he's not a huge top. He's a perfect number two center. That defensive minded, two way Nico Heer kind of type player. He's not a 1C but putting Brink on that second line with Matt Boldy and Ericson Ek. It really fleshes out that top six. Like you were saying, it takes some of the scoring pressure off Baldi and Capri off and they're going to need that against Dallas because when Mo Rantin gets back, there probably isn't a better top six in the league than what Dallas has with Ranton and Jason Robertson and rope hints and Wyatt Johnston and Matt Duchesne. This gives the while just a little one more weapon to compete against them in what's we'll get into this next segment. Well, it's going to be one of the best playoff series that we'll ever see in the first round. So I agree with you. I like the Bobby Brink pickup a lot. I want to move to Edmonton and Edmonton. Look, I've been hard on Edmonton. I was hard on them in my winners and losers. I've been hard on them a lot. Oilers needed a goalie, didn't get one. They needed some scoring depth to take some of the pressure off McDavid and Draisaitl didn't get any. But one thing Stan Bowman's always been really good at is kind of plugging those holes around the lineup getting those depth guys. Like when you look back on those 2013, 2015, 2010 Blackhawks teams, their fourth lines were better than most teams. Second and third lines like this is what he does really well. And Jason Dickinson is just he's such a good player and he's such a good addition. He's just a terrific defensive forward. He's an outstanding penalty killer and those are two things Edmonton desperately needs. I think his game is tailor made for playoff hockey. He's not worrying about chasing goals. He's out there to shut down the other team's best lines and that can free up McDavid and dry Seattle to have better matchups. He's not going to add much scoring depth. He spiked a 22 goal season a couple of years ago but he's not that guy. If they had gotten a goalie this would have been the best addition of the deadline. The problem is Jason Dickinson and Connor Murphy are not enough. That's not exactly what Edmonton needed, but I think Jason Dickinson is going to have a really good postseason.
- [16:15]
Jesse Granger
Yeah, the part I agree with you the most on is just the matchup. Like making things a little easier on McDavid and dry seidel. Like you guys don't have to shut down the opposing top line and score three points a night. You like let I cover the Golden Knights. They traded For Nick Dowd, very similar situation in terms of like, let's get someone who we can give the tough minutes and they can at least draw even and kind of just neutralize the other team's top line. And then we can get our guys out against more easier matchups, more offensive zone draws, not having to play so much in their own end so that they're tired and have to change by the time they get it out. And that can have a huge advantage. Like Dickinson can come in, not put up any points and still make the Oilers more dangerous offensively because their, their top guys get to play easier matchups.
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Mark Lazarus
Absolutely. How about Nicholas Roy going to the Colorado Avalanche? You know him well from his time in Vegas. Tell us about him.
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Jesse Granger
Yeah, great. I mean, the Aves, they were already strong up the middle. And then you add these centers, Kadri, I mean, between McKinnon, Brock Nelson, Kadri and WA, that's got to be the best center group in the entire NHL. And W.A. is, is a perfect fourth line center. Like you said. I watched him. He was a big part of the reason the Golden Knights won the cup in 2023. He is good in his own end. Not great. He's not like a shutdown guy, like kind of what we've been talking about with Dickinson and Dowd. But he's good enough in his own end. And then what he's really great at is holding on to pucks down low. So you want your fourth line to kind of forecheck, play in the offensive end, spend time down on that end. And WA is so good at that because he's, he's big, he's rangy, he uses his body to protect the puck incredibly well and he's got great hands. So like he scored so many big goals for the Golden Knights in the playoffs and I think he could do the same thing for Colorado. Like, he is a fourth liner. He plays a more direct game. He's going to be on a four checking line. He's not a skilled player, but then you'll get him the puck in front of the crease and all of a sudden it's like he's not just whacking at it. Like, this guy's got really soft hands for a big fourth line center. So yeah, I think he adds a ton to Colorado. I think he's the perfect guy to play on that team. Like the speed and skill that that team plays with. He is the ideal fourth line center for Colorado. It's a great pickup.
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Mark Lazarus
One last guy I want to talk about is David Perron, who's kind of in that Corey Perry mode where he's an older guy that you kind of almost forgot is still in the league but is still productive. He's still, you know, a lock for 15 to 20 goals every year. He just does what he does. He's going back to Detroit, a team he knows well. He's played with most of these guys before. What kind of an impact do you think he can have in Detroit?
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Jesse Granger
Yeah, I got to see him only for one year in Vegas. He was part of that. That magical inaugural season team that went to the Cup Final. And he's. I mean, he's got a super tricky release. That's the number one thing I always think of with David Perron, is like, he. The reason he scores all these. He's not the fastest skater. He's kind of like what I talked about with wa Uses his body to hang on to pucks, but, man, he's just got such a tricky release that fools goalies. He scores from places you don't think he should. And the shot doesn't look all that powerful when he. It's not like a. Like a McKinnon snipe when he lets it go, but it beats the goalie every time. So it's like there's something he's doing in his release that tricks goalies. And in the playoffs, a guy like that for cheap, like, you're not going to find someone who can score goals in that way for that type of price. And like you said, he already knows the guys in Detroit. So great fit, super like, low cost, high ceiling acquisition in my eyes.
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Mark Lazarus
Yeah. You know, it's almost become like cliche in this league to talk about who's going to be your Barkley Good row, who's going to be your Blake Coleman, Those Tampa Bay third liners that help them win a cup, a couple of cups, and it feels like these are those guys. These are your. Your bottom sixers that can provide a little bit of scoring depth, some good, smart defensive play, can some kill some key penalties. You know, everyone. I always remember Mike Babcock talking about this in 2013, when you get to the second round of the playoffs, everybody's got a great top six. And it's what's after that that decides who's going to win each series. And these are the kind of players you need to add the kind of players that make a good team into a great team. And keep your eye on some of these guys. All right, we're going to take a Quick break. When we come back, we're talking about the playoffs, baby. We're getting close. We're going to talk about the five first round matchups we most want to see.
- [20:24]
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Mark Lazarus
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Matt
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- [23:22]
Mark Lazarus
Okay, so this is one of my favorite times of the year as a guy who gets kind of tossed around the continent in the spring just covering random playoff series. I get to start dreaming of which series I get to actually cover and those if the playoffs started today brackets that are so silly in November actually mean something now. So Jesse and I came up with five first round series we most want to see. Now to be clear, these are series that could actually happen based on the way the standings are looking. You know, we could say we want Penguins capitals, but that's probably not going to happen with where the Capitals are right now. So we'll start at the bottom with number five. And I do want it's the Penguins and the Islanders. These are two teams that nobody thought would be here this year and that most people I think are still a little skeptical of. So there's a lot of intrigue and curiosity about what this matchup could be. Could be Evgeny Malkin's last hurrah with the Penguins. It sure seems like he's heading toward an exit. Could be Sidney Crosby's last playoff run for all we know. Assuming he's able to get back in time from injury. And if we can't have him lining up against Washington, the Islanders are the next best thing because the Penguins and Islanders over the years have had some absolute barn burner series, you know, dating back to the pre Crosby era. So I, I, I, I don't know how excited other people are would be about this one. I want to see this.
- [24:34]
Jesse Granger
Yeah, well you've got me because Ilya Sorokin and man has this guy been good this year. I, I, I would love for this guy to carry the Islanders on a deep playoff run because he's he a few seasons back he put up some insane goals above expected numbers and he didn't end up winning the vezin. I think that was the year Omar won it. He's probably going to end up winning his VEZ and like he's deserved one for a while. He's probably going to end up getting it this year. I was looking at some numbers the other day and his high danger save percentage, so shots that are basically from the slot within 29ft, the most dangerous shots you can possibly face. And he's got a save percentage of.875, which doesn't sound great until you realize that the league average is.811 on those shots. And his.875 is better than 20 goalies. Their whole safe percentage, their entire save percentage for the whole season, and he's better on just the high danger chances. He is absolutely carrying that team. When you look at the Islanders underlying numbers, they are one of the worst defensive teams in the league. They give up the most high danger shots, they give up the most expected goals, and yet Ilya Sorokin has just kind of put them on his back and is carrying them into playoff position. Then on the other side, you've got the Penguins, who we all didn't think of as a good team, but the underlying metrics tell you that the Penguins, I mean, I think they're fifth in goal differential behind. Yeah, basically only. Yeah, like the, the, the only teams above them in goal differential are the teams we think of as elite, like Colorado, Tampa, Carolina, Dallas, Minnesota. So Pittsburgh, they, they might be better than we're giving him credit for. And then you've got a goalie on the other side that can steal every game he's in. So I, even though it's not the flashiest, like sexiest names, I, I do think that playoff series could be good.
- [26:10]
Mark Lazarus
You're, you're right about Soroka. I mean, he could be a legitimate heart contender this year with what he's doing. Do you have faith? Remember, the, the writers don't vote for the. On The Vesna. The GMs do. Do you have faith that the GMs are looking at his high danger save scoring, save percentage and looking at these underlying numbers, are they going, ooh, Andre Vasilevsky has a lot of wins.
- [26:29]
Jesse Granger
They've, they've gotten better lately. I'll give them credit. I think lately they have kind of gone away from just the wins model. They are still looking at safe percent. Like I was making an argument the other day on, on Twitter for Jeremy Swayman to be a Vezina finalist. That won't happen because his safe percentage is.905. It's not 9:15. So like a goalie who's, who's, whose base stats are not special, but his underlying stats are special. Like, Jeremy Swayman has no chance to get it. But Sorokin, his base stats are good enough on top of his underlying stats being great that I do think Sorokin probably wins the Vezina assuming he keeps this form going. It's. I mean, when you're playing behind a bad team like that, one bad week can like if your team gives up a ton, one bad week for a goalie can absolutely tank all of those stats. So he's still got another month to to put up these numbers to to keep it going. But if he does, I do think he'll get the Vesna.
- [27:21]
Mark Lazarus
All right, number four on our list. We got a preview of it on Sunday night. Oilers beat the Knights 4 to 2. You pick this one. Tell me why you want to see this one so bad.
- [27:30]
Jesse Granger
These teams hate each other. We just talked about this Buffalo Tampa game and the animosity. The Golden Knights and Oilers, they've. So the Golden Knights eliminated the Oilers in six games on their way to winning their cup two years ago, three years ago. And then the Oilers eliminated the Knights last year in five games. And it was a just knockout brawl of a series and they do not like each other. We saw it a little bit last night. These games have more intensity to them and they've just played so many big games against each other these last few games. They're clearly the class of the Pacific over the last three years. Obviously Anaheim and San Jose are kind of in Seattle are stepping up this year. But these have been the top two dogs in this division for a while. And the matchup of the McDavid Draisaitl versus Eichel and Stone. It's just really good hockey. These teams have produced insane games. They had the buzzer beater last year that went off Draisaitl stick and into the net with like 0.8 seconds left to win it for the Golden Knights. Just lots of good games, lots of good players. I think it would be a phenomenal way to start the playoffs off.
- [28:30]
Mark Lazarus
I think everybody outside of Gary Bettman wants to see us go back to a 18 system. I want to go back to a 116. Not go back to but start a 116. These guys travel in first class. Like let us worry about the pain in the butt travel and let's just have the 16 best teams face off. I think it's. I think it's Greg Wisinski who has the theory that Batman is holding the line on this because he wants to give Bill Daly an easy win in his first year as commissioner. Whenever he does step down so that Bill Daley can come in to be the hero and make everything go to 1 8. Like I like that idea. But what do you think about like the Utah Mammoth right now are a wild card team and I think they're going to have more, they're going to finish the season with more points than the Pacific division winner. Whether it's Anaheim or Edmonton or Vicks, the division winner still gets home ice. Should we just go by points here? I mean the, the fifth best team in the Central is probably going to be better than any team in the Pacific this year.
- [29:15]
Jesse Granger
It's wild how bad the Pacific is this year. I hesitate to ask for like league wide changes and structural changes based on one outlier year where a division is this bad. Because we were having this conversation last night and like, I don't. I think since they split it into four divisions, we've never had a division winner under 100 points. That's for sure happening in the Pacific. Like they might not get to 90 points, let alone 100. And when you look at like division like versus like the division's record versus outside the division, not only is the Pacific the worst, it's the biggest gap we've seen in a very, very long time. This division's awful. It's so weird that it can be this bad. Like someone at the game last night was like, well, it happens in the NFL all the time. Like you have a bad division. It's like, well, yeah, but that's only four teams and it's the division least, right? It's broken into eight divisions. So when you break it into eight divisions and they only have four teams each, you're bound to have a awful division. But when it's a quarter of the NHL, like the Pacific Division is 25% of the entire NHL and none of them are any good. It is. It's very strange how bad this division is. Bruce Cassidy did point out the other day that the last three Stanley cup representatives for, for the west did come out of this division. Edmonton, Edmonton and Vegas.
- [30:28]
Mark Lazarus
So got an easier path out. They're beaten up as much by the time they get there.
- [30:32]
Jesse Granger
Yeah, it's it, it is. And like we have that. We've done it the last couple of years. It's been the Atlantic Division. We've said, oh my gosh, look at the Atlantic and the, the path they've got to go while the Metro is so much easier. And now this year it's going to be the Central. And it is brutal for the Central But I don't know, like I said, I hesitate to make like sweeping changes just off that. I do prefer the 1 versus 8. But this division, we're not going to have a division this bad most years.
- [30:55]
Mark Lazarus
I don't know. It's reminiscent of the old Atlanta Thrashers in the Southeast Division back when we had six divisions. It's just like, it's just so bad that none of these teams really deserves it. But it's the way this, it's the way the system set up. And as well, we're going to get Minnesota, Dallas in the first round and we're going to get two crappy teams in the Pacific thing facing each other just the way it is. Let's talk about another Pacific. Oddly enough, the Pacific has the most appealing matchups here. Duck Sharks. This two young exciting teams that have no idea how to play defense. I mean this could be like 8, 7 every night. Like that Sabres Lightning game every night because they can't stop the puck and they can't stop any forwards. How, how much fun would Duck Sharks be?
- [31:35]
Jesse Granger
Yeah, this is my pick for, I mean, we'll get to number one. That's kind of the obvious one. But to me this is like other than the obvious. This is the most exciting potential playoff series because it's the young guns, it's the guys that we've been all enthralled with all season. Macklin Celebrini, Will Smith on one side, Leo Carlson, Mason McTavish on the other, Cutter Gaultier. And I feel like right now Anaheim's leading the division and San Jose is just like right below that wildcard spot. So this is legitimately could happen. And I feel like if either of these teams get in and they have to play Vegas or Edmonton, they're just going to get bullied. And they're like, maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm wrong. And it's like, but then we won't get to enjoy those young kids in the playoffs because they're just going to get pushed around and it's not going to work. Whereas if we just put all the young kids against each other, not only do we get an incredible playoff series, but then you guarantee that of these teams is going to be in the second round just wreaking havoc. So I, I like you said, it could be 8, 7 every night. These teams do not play defense. They play up and down hockey. We will outscore you. We're willing to give you a two on one so that we can get a two on one the other way it's almost like overtime hockey, but they just do it the entire game. They've got two athletic goalies in Yaroslav Askarov and Lukas Dostal. Two of my favorites to watch. So many things to like about this series and like I said, it guarantees that it would. You'd get one of them in the, in the second round. Trying to top whoever wins that Vegas Edmonton series, I guess, and try to be the Cinderella story of these playoffs. I really, really hope we get shark stocks.
- [33:06]
Mark Lazarus
Who are you kidding, Jess? You got 64 goalies you love to watch. You don't have any favorites.
- [33:10]
Jesse Granger
You're right.
- [33:11]
Mark Lazarus
But here's the thing about San Jose. They're not good. Like, this is not a playoff worthy team. Like, I love watching Macklin celebrating as much as the next guy. He is one of the five best players in the world already. They have the same amount of regulation wins as the Blackhawks do. They have three fewer regulation wins than Nashville does, than Winnipeg does, than Calgary does. This team is just a three on three juggernaut and that's why they have all these extra points built up. This team would get stomped in a playoff series. So I'm with you. It'd be fun, but I don't think it would be very long. Even Anaheim, which is also not that good a team, they are fun and they play a lot of. They have great offense. Adding John Carlson just makes them more one dimensional, but in a really fun way. Again, I think this could be a fun series, but San Jose is not playoff worthy this year. I feel like everyone is jumping on that bandwagon like a year too early. They're going to get there and they're going to be in the mix for a long, long time. But they're not there yet and they're kind of masked. The smoke and mirrors of all these overtime wins they have.
- [34:06]
Jesse Granger
Yeah, the Ducks are similar too. Like they fall behind every single night and then they just score three goals in the third period and come back and win. And like, which is great.
- [34:13]
Mark Lazarus
Doesn't work as well. Not playoffs.
- [34:15]
Jesse Granger
Right. It's not a recipe to win in May. So we'll see. We'll see. Like, like I said, I. And that's part of like my whole premise is like, I think the Ducks and Sharks would be fun, but I think if they're separate and they're playing like veteran, like experienced playoff teams, it won't be fun. Like the Sharks against the Golden Knights probably wouldn't be a very fun series, but if we put them together, Magic I like it.
- [34:37]
Mark Lazarus
All right. Number two, Sabre's Wings. Can you imagine a better environment for a playoff series than these two markets? These two hockey crazed markets like we were talking about earlier. Sabres haven't been in the playoffs in 14 years. It's been about a decade for the Red Wings. Little Caesars arena has never hosted a playoff game, which is crazy to me. And that place is built like the Bell center. Like it just goes straight up so the noise can't escape. It's going to be deafening in there. We saw last night what the Sabres arena with Keybanc center can be like. This would be just. The hockey would be fine. I don't doubt it would be good, but it'd be fine. But the atmosphere. There can't be a better atmosphere than both these teams in their first playoff series in forever in these wonderful hockey towns with these great fan bases just going absolutely ballistic.
- [35:24]
Jesse Granger
Yep. It really is. It really is about the fan bases with these teams and how good they are and what they've been through and just getting to have that moment together at the same time. And then it's also like the, the. These two teams, we kind of mentioned it earlier. Like they're on the similar rebuild. Like they're on the same cycle together and then they both finally break through in the same season. So fitting for them to be have to play each other in the first round. It's. It's not. I don't think maybe that's the matchup right now. If we look at the stage.
- [35:53]
Mark Lazarus
Not now because the Sabres just leapfrogged the Tampa Bay into first place.
- [35:56]
Jesse Granger
But so it's. Yeah, right. It's certainly. Yeah, certainly possible. It's. It's one of the more likely ones to happen. I hope it does. Like you said, great, great storylines and two teams that we've been watching rebuild in front of our eyes and they finally have. Have a playoff team. And let's. Let's see if one of them gets the second round.
- [36:12]
Mark Lazarus
Absolutely. And number one. Duh. It stars wild. Look this. These are the second and third best teams in the league. There are some nights where, you know, Colorado has been kind of mediocre for a while now as they've hit cruise control. I don't really buy it. They're still really good. But there are some nights where Dallas looks like the best team in the world and Minnesota looks like the best team. Minnesota, another great fan base that is absolutely starving for a playoff run. Not just a first round exit. They've had so many over the years. Just the epitome of mediocrity for so long. And the Stars, they have to win right now, right? Like they're, this is their window. They've had three straight runs to the conference final where they've all. They lost each time. They have to break through eventually because these windows don't stay open forever. Jason Robertson's future, we don't know what his contract status is going to look like. So the pressure on these two teams for a first round matchup that is Stanley Cup Final worthy, not even conference final worthy, but Stanley Cup Final worthy. The pressure these teams will face will be immense. The hockey will be fantastic. You know this. I do a lot of Dallas Stars playoff runs. I'll be a lot. I'll be a happy man if I'm covering this one.
- [37:16]
Jesse Granger
Yeah, I, they, they, we've seen these matchups. Like Colorado went to, to Minnesota and played them a few days ago. Then they went to Dallas a couple nights ago and played them. And these Central Division matchups are just. The speed on the ice is a different level than all the other games in the NHL. Like I'll, I'll have the multi TV setup and it's like one of these games is not the same as the rest of these other games. And it's, it's when Colorado, Dallas and Minnesota play each other and we're. Again, we complain about the playoff format. Is it. If you're a Minnesota fan or a Dallas fan, is it fair that you have to play them in the first round? Absolutely. In no way is it fair. But is it great for everyone who gets to watch it? Yes. It is going to be amazing hockey, these two teams. Like you said, Cup Final intensity, the speed we, we, we, the whole Olympics we talked about how, oh my gosh, this US Olympic Games, like the speed on the ice is so fast. That's what these games look like between these teams because it's just superstars everywhere you look at every level. Dallas and Minnesota have very few flaws in their game. Like these teams are forwards, defense, goalies, all awesome on both sides. It is. That's going to be a heck of a series. And because of the way the standings are and the way the avs raced out to that early lead, like, yeah, maybe they could catch him, but probably not going to happen. These two teams have been staring at each other for weeks, months. Like, we know this series is going to happen. They like all the regular season games leading into it are just, they know that this is just the appetizer. Like we're going to play seven games against this team. The hatred should be there. It's going to be like that. It's a layup for the most exciting first round playoff series. What a series that's going to be.
- [38:51]
Mark Lazarus
Yeah. Every move these teams made leading up to the trade deadline was with their opponent in mind because they knew exactly what it was going to be. And let's not forget, just add to the pressure. I was talking about Quinn Hughes. You still got to convince him to resign. He seems like he's having a blast there. Mike Russo thinks that is going to happen. I don't doubt him for a second. But if you lose in the first round, it doesn't help your case when you're trying to sell yourself as a long term winner here. Felix around goes in this division is like, man, there's a better path. There's a lot of pressure on the Minnesota Wild. All right, we're going to take one more quick break. When we come back, we will talk about how young is too young to be an NHL captain. This spring. Follow your nose to what feels good right now. Get a free Pura plus diffuser when
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- [40:59]
Mark Lazarus
All right, Jesse, let me set the scene. It's the Chicago Hilton, mid July 2008. Jonathan Toews is 20 years old. Coach Dennis Savard pulls him aside and says, you're going to be the captain starting next year. Daves is freaking out. He's literally freaking out. He's running around the hotel trying to fight. They're at the Blackhawks convention. He's running around the hotel going to all the veterans. He pulls Andrew Ladd aside. Are you okay with this? He goes and he pulls up Colin Frazier. Are you okay with this? Like, he's literally just running around the hotel making sure his teammates, who are so much older and more established and more accomplished than him, are okay with this. All of them are like, yeah, of course we knew it was going to be you. It's not a big deal. It's fine. But he was sweating it. Like he did not feel he was worthy of being the captain. At 20 years old, wins the Stanley Cup. Two years later, he's the consmyth winner. Has this reputation now as one of the all time great captains, all time great leaders. But when you talk to him today, he still says, I was in no way prepared to be the captain at that age. Being the captain is so much more than just talking to the referees. It's. You have to be the person who kind of mediates interpersonal conflict in the room. You have to make sure everyone's feeling good. When someone's not feeling good, you have to be the one that sits down next to them, puts an arm around them and tries to talk them. It's a lot of therapy kind of a situation for the captain of a team. It's very socially oriented. And look, the Blackhawks just traded Nick Foligno, whose job was to be the captain between Jonathan Toews and Connor Bedard. We all know it's inevitable. It hasn't been said out loud, but it's inevitable that Connor Bedard is going to be captain next year. He turns 21 in July. How young is too young to be the captain?
- [42:31]
Jesse Granger
Yeah, it's a great question. You know, Connor Bernard obviously a lot better than I do, but amongst 21 year olds, I feel like he's about as prepared as you can be. Just because he's been the golden child since he was like, what, 14? So like, it's not like he's just like just now getting the spotlight. Like, this guy's pretty used to the spotlight. I going into this conversation, I went and talked to. Spoke to Jack Eichel yesterday because he's another guy who, when he went to Buffalo, he was. You're the savior. You are the savior of the Buffalo Sabres. Here's a C. He was either 20 or 21 when they, when they gave him the captaincy. So I wanted to get his perspective on it. And he was. He was great. He was pretty honest. And he's like, yeah, I mean, I'm 29 now and having watched Mark Stone be the captain here in Vegas, like, I'd be a lot different captain now than I was back then. And I've learned so much. I'm a different person, a different player, and it was tough. And he mentioned that he leaned a lot on Kyle Okposo when he was asked to be captain, another veteran Buffalo. But what he said was, he's.
- [43:33]
Mark Lazarus
He said it's.
- [43:34]
Jesse Granger
It. It helped that it was such a young team. Like, he's like, yeah, I was young, but it wasn't like I was the kid. And then it was like a bunch of veterans around me. Like, we were all young. So it wasn't really that odd that I was the captain being as young as I was, because it was pretty much like par for, like the whole team was young. So he said that that helped. And, but he did say, like, if I was captain now, I'd be so much better at it than I was eight years ago when they made me captain. So it's. It's going to be tough. He also said Connor Bernard is probably ready for it. He's the guy, like, the dude has. And like, like I said, I don't know him as well as you. I remember the year he got drafted. I remember watching him, just the way he was like, joking with the media at the draft and I was just like, wow. Like, for an 18 year old with all this pressure, he seems very mature. He seems very ready for this moment. So as far as 21 year olds go, he's probably about as good as you could get for a captain. What do you think?
- [44:20]
Mark Lazarus
Yeah, no, I tend to agree. And the Blackhawks will be in a similar situation next year. They don't have Foligno, they don't have Dickinson, they don't have Connor Murphy anymore. So it is an extremely young team. And Bedard is like just about the same age as everybody, if not older than a couple of these guys. And the thing about Bedard, it's been interesting because when, when Taves got the C, his older teammate said, we see the way he prepares. We see how good he is. I have no trouble following that guy, Even though I'm 10 years older than him. And Bedard's been the same way. I remember like three months, two months into his rookie season when he was just 18. He's like the 12th youngest player in the history of the NHL. And these older guys, like Jason Dickinson would just be like, that's our best player. We go as he goes. Like, he earned the respect on the ice very quickly, which allows him to earn the respect off the ice. You know, he had nothing to prove to them on the ice. His work. He's always the last guy off the ice. You know, he was pulling the other young guys into it. They could see him becoming a leader already. I do think he's. He is uniquely capable of handling the weight of that being. The pressure, the pressure of wearing a C for an original six franchise, for a team that's, you know, starting to get impatient. A fan base that's starting to get impatient. He's been the face of this team already for three seasons. They haven't hit him. He does talk every day. He handles press as well as anybody. He's very polite. He's never mad at the press. He just does his job. He doesn't love it, but he doesn't hate it. He's been, like you said, he's been doing this since he was 14, 15 years old. I do think he is uniquely prepared, as much as a 21 year old can be. But I think, I think hockey fans underrate the meaning of a captaincy. I feel like they think it's an honorarium thing, right? Just like there's our best player, slap a C on it. For years, that's what we were doing. Like Eichel and McDavid, the best player on the team gets it, but it does matter in that room. A lot of stuff about the hockey world, we roll our eyes at, like the leadership and the grit and the all that stuff, but within the room, it matters. And that's all that matters. So to the players who has that C on their jersey matters. And I do think that the Blackhawks, I think Connor Bedard has proven now over three seasons he's their best player and he is a leader. He's been wearing the A now for a little while for injuries, and now through. They traded their entire cap. All three of their captains have been traded now. So he's wearing an A. He doesn't have a lot of veterans to lean on. Tyler Bertuzzi is not really that kind of a guy. Matt Grislick's probably not going to be here next year. There's just not a lot of veterans left. Alex Vlasic, at 24, is the longest tenured Blackhawk right now. It's crazy. So he's going to have to do it on his own. He's not going to have a lot of help. But I do think he is more prepared for it than most 21 year olds are. But I don't think any 21 year old is truly prepared for the weight of it.
- [46:53]
Jesse Granger
Yeah. And like you mentioned, all the social aspects of it, like kind of keeping the group together.
- [46:57]
Mark Lazarus
Yeah.
- [46:58]
Jesse Granger
Organizing dinner, stuff like that. That's the easy part. I think the other part of it is you're the conduit a lot of times from the coach. Right. Like, sometimes the coach realizes that, like me saying this doesn't have the same impact as the players saying it to each other. And as the captain, like, those are the conversations you have with the coach. You are kind of the conduit to like help get his message to the guys in a different way than him just yelling it at him. Like the way the. But like I said, when it comes from a coach, it's different than when it's coming from within the players. And I think that that's another underrated aspect that we don't talk much about from the captain is a lot of times if the coach needs the players to start doing something differently, the mindset to shift, it has to come through the captain. And that's a lot of weight on you.
- [47:41]
Mark Lazarus
I remember asking Duncan Keith once before a Stanley cup final. I think it was the 2015 Stanley Cup Final. Like when you need a big moment, when it's like a big intermission, who stands up in the middle of the room and addresses the team. He looks at me, goes, laz, this isn't a BLEEP in Disney movie that doesn't happen. Like, like, I think, I think a lot of what we envision a captain does. That's not really how it works. We talk about being a vocal leader. That's not what it is. It's not standing up and addressing the room. It's. It's bucking up players when they're having a bad day. It's, it's, it's, it is. Like you said, it's like, hey, we need. This is what the coach wants us to do. I'm buying in. You have to follow me and buy in. A lot of it's by example. Like, you know, we talk a lot about Auston Matthews and whether he's really a captain kind of guy. But when you talk to everyone on Team usa, they're like, you watch him prepare, you watch how seriously he takes this, and it makes you want to do what he's doing. There's all kinds of ways to lead, and it isn't a Disney movie. Nobody's just standing up and giving the big speech, the rah rah speech. Connor Bedard is never going to be that guy. He doesn't have that personality. He's not Brent Seabrook, who was the rah rah guy as an alternate captain. So I think the captaincy is a little misunderstood in the hockey world. If you haven't been in that room, if you haven't talked to these players on a regular basis. But it does matter. And there's all kinds of different ways to lead. And being the best player and the hardest worker on the ice, that is the number one way to gain everyone's respect and to be able to be that voice, that liaison from the coaching staff, it really does matter.
- [49:00]
Jesse Granger
Yeah. And like you said, it, it's, we all expected this. It's, it's, it's nice when the best player is also a good captain. Right? Like, right. It's some. Sometimes the best player on the team is not a good captain. In this case, it's like he's kind of built for this. It should be fine.
- [49:15]
Mark Lazarus
Yeah. And it's interesting because he's going to be coming from Nick Foligno, who's a completely different type of captain. Nick Foligno is. He's the ultimate rah rah guy. He's so earnest and sincere that it comes across as corny. But everybody who plays with him knows that it's not that it is sincere, that it is earnest. And, you know, he spent the summers bringing all the young guys to his house on the lake and team bonding, and he's, you know, always speaking up and bucking everyone up and pumping everyone's tires. Connor Bedard's not going to be that kind of captain either. He's going to have to form his own kind of leadership style. And, you know, he is the face and the voice of this team. He is the face and this voice of this new Blackhawks generation. The pressure on him is unlike the pressure almost anyone's ever faced outside of Connor McDavid and Sidney Crosby. Macklin Celebrini does not have to deal with this in San Jose. There's not a big media crush. He's not on national TV all The time, the pressure there is different than it is in a big city like Chicago. But I do think Bedard is uniquely prepared for it and it'll be, it'll be interesting to watch because he is still incredibly young. He's so young. He's, he'd be like a junior in college. When I was a junior in college, I was a freaking idiot. Like a 21 years old. Put me in charge of anything and it would have been a complete and utter disaster.
- [50:25]
Jesse Granger
Yeah. And he, he's not the rah rah guy. But like the two guys you mentioned who have like faced this pressure, they're two really good captains too, in Crosby and McDavid. I mean, Crosby is seen as like the captain of all captains and you don't see Sidney Crosby yelling at guys on the bench like, he's the calm, like, calming presence. And I think Bedard can be a similar captain. Like McDavid's the same way. Like, we love, we love that when he's yelling at everyone in the Edmonton locker room during the, the, the documentary. But the reason we love it so much is because we don't see that from him very often. Like, usually he is very like flatline, calm, collected. And Bernard can be similar captain.
- [50:59]
Mark Lazarus
Yeah. McDavid really grew into it. And I think when you, if you are a guy who yells and screams all the time, it doesn't mean anything when you yell and scream. I feel when, when you see Connor McDavid behaving like that in the room, aside from probably stifling a little bit of laughter, you're probably like, holy, this, this means something now. Like he's, he is not messing around and we got to get, get our, we better dig the F in, as he said over and over and over again. All right, before we go, I just wanted to say a quick word about Troy Murray, the last longtime Blackhawks player and radio analyst who died on Saturday. Just 63 years old, I had the tremendous good fortune to spend 14 years traveling the league with Troy to be able to call him a friend. He was a heck of a two way center as a player. He won a Selkie trophy. He had a 50 goal season, but just an absolute first ballot hall of Famer as a person. He was funny, sardonic, but he was always the first guy to welcome a new player into the team, our new reporter into the club. Nobody told better stories. Nobody was more fun to have a pint with. The rink has been a lot dimmer since the cancer got to the point where it kind of kept him from working over the last year. But look around the hockey world the last couple of days and all the things that people are saying about Troy, what he meant to them, how warm he was, how much they just enjoyed being around him. And I don't know, man, just try to live your life in a way that has people talking about you that way. Try to be like Troy. Okay, for me and Jesse and producer Chris Flannery, thanks for listening to the Athletic Hockey Show. It's the Sean's and Frankie back at you on Wednesday. Have a great one.
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