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- [00:00]
Advertiser/Announcer
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Host/Moderator
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- [00:38]
Corey Pronman
I needed relief.
- [00:40]
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Host/Moderator
It helped me move better.
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Corey Pronman
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- [01:58]
Chris Peters
This is the athletic hockey show prospect series.
- [02:13]
Host/Moderator
Hey everybody. Max Boltman here alongside the Athletics Scott Wheeler and Corey Promman as well as Flow Hockey's Chris Peters for another episode of the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. Fun show on tap today. Corey's got a new draft list out that we're going to talk about, but I want to start guys with the World Junior Camp rosters and and specifically with Team Canada. I think that's the interesting one here. No huge surprises on usa, but for Canada it gets a little bit interesting and that starts Corey, I think with some of the players who were not there. Justin Carbono having an outstanding year in the qmjhl. Not there. Merrick Vaneker, a guy who I think we thought fit that kind of depth veteran role that Canada tends to look to or older player role that Canada tends to look to not there. Which of those omissions are you more surprised by?
- [02:58]
Corey Pronman
If I had to pick one, it'd be Carbodo. But I wouldn't say it was shocking either. I mean, it's still Team Canada. We knew that four group in particular was going to be extremely competitive. If you're, if you're taking Carbono, you're leaving behind like a top five pick, like a Caleb dinoia or, or Brady Martin or, you know, a high pick like Jake, like Jacob Bryan, who's been a top player in the ohl. I think those are some of the bubble guys they would, they were debating between. So it's not shocking to me. The Carbono is having a fantastic year, you know, goal per game pace, but it is the queue, you know, it's. There is a little bit of an adjustment there for exactly how impressive that is. And I think there are some concerns on this player in terms of whether he's, if you look at this player pool that they had to choose from, is he going to be a legit power play guy among these options? He's not really a penalty killer. So I think that's where the debates came in. You know, when we did our, our mock Team Canada exercise, I think we leaned to putting him in, but I think I was on the fence about that, to be perfectly honest. So maybe some, maybe ask Chris or Scott what they thought, because I actually think it's. I probably would have left him off, if I'm being perfectly honest.
- [04:03]
Host/Moderator
Yeah. Scott, why don't you weigh in on this?
- [04:06]
Scott Wheeler
I, I wasn't terribly surprised. Like, I exchanged texts with a couple of qmjl coaches and GMs that night and the feedback I got back from them was that they weren't surprised either. I had one of them say that he actually didn't think it was probably very close. And Carbono has always been a player who's come with mixed reviews about consistency, habits off of the puck, that side of it. Like, it's been a talking point about him. I don't think he's everybody's sort of cup of tea, if you will. So I wasn't terribly surprised. The one thing with Carbono that I'd couch that with, though, is that I think there is a little bit of a risk now that they don't have a ton of like, true, true. All of these players play power play for their own team, but they don't have a ton of sort of true, true power play scores on this team. I think you expect that Porter Martone and Tjginla kind of play that role on the top unit. But I do wonder a little bit what the second power play unit for Team Canada is going to look like. Maybe they just run that first unit. Like maybe it's McKenna and Iginla and, and Martone and those are your, those are. And Misa and Those are your four forwards on the, on PP1 and they play almost the full two minutes kind of thing. I think there's. With Perek at the point, for example. I think that's a real possibility. But I did start to wonder okay, like who, who's PP2 for this team? I think that would have been a role that he would have fit nicely. And if suddenly they run into an injury or two to some of those top guys, I do wonder about the. There's just the scoring depth but same token like if he wasn't going to be a top six winger for them, that's, that's the natural role you'd expect him to, to play. So not terribly surprised that they didn't bring him as a bottom six guy either.
- [05:44]
Host/Moderator
Only in Canada can you look at a team that has Michael, Misa, porter, Martone, Gavin McKenna and say there's not enough power play talent on this team. Scott, any other team in this tournament would be doing jumping jacks with that group.
- [05:56]
Corey Pronman
You. What about like Hage and Green Tree? Like those. There's still plenty of skill among their secondary guys.
- [06:02]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, I do wonder though like there's you, you've got Sam O'Reilly and you go down the list. Jet Lucchenko, Cole, Bo Dwang. Like there is a glut of guys that I think will penalty kill for this team and will be penalty killing options for this team. Reshni, Carter, Bear. Like they've. There's, there's a lot of those guys. Not quite as many as last year. I think last year they realized that there were far too many of those types but none of the like Green Tree is a really, really good player. He doesn't shoot it like Carbono does. Like he's not that one shot scorer that, that I think Carbono could have maybe represented a little bit in this group. But again not surprised. I actually thought, thought Carter, Bear making it over, over, over Marik Vaneker was a bit more surprising to me. They're both left shot wingers. I think they're both probably imagined for the same role. Like bottom six guy forechecking power type game, go to the net, play with pace. They're both excellent skaters and Bear got off to A bit of a slow start. I know he's been much better for Everett recently, but I did wonder if Bear was going to be on this team and he's not really a player we talked about as someone who was going to be on this team. I did think that Vaneker, with the way that he scored and the role that he could play, that he might have been a better fit for that role specifically. Which made me wonder whether maybe the Hunter brothers aren't having seen him a lot in the ohl. Maybe they're not quite. Quite as high on him.
- [07:25]
Corey Pronman
I think they've got three defensemen though who are legit shot threats. I think you have Zayn Parick and Kan Aon. I think are are high end goal scoring threats. And I don't know. Verhoff. Yeah, I don't know if Verhof's actually going to be in the starting seven. I think that's something to remains to be seen depending on his camp, but if he makes the team, he would fit that category as well.
- [07:44]
Host/Moderator
Yeah, well, let's stick on the young D then there because I. I do think we had Verhoff on our depth chart. We did not have Carson, Carl's Corey and he's a guy who now moves into this picture. And I wonder how you feel like he got himself into this grouping.
- [07:59]
Corey Pronman
Not only is he in the grouping, I think he actually has a better chance to be in the starting seven than Verhoeff does just because of a couple of variables. One, just how hard he plays the hand in this. He's a left shot versus the right shots where they have Parrick and Bronickian, Danford, they're kind of solidified, it seems like in that lineup. But Carl's has been excellent. I mean, he was really good at the World UA teams last April. He's been excellent in the Western League. One of the top defense in the Western League this year. I thought he was the best player for team CHL at the CHL NTP series right up there with Caleb Malhotra. So now you got this defense with size and mobility and grit and hockey sense and he looks like a very exciting player. And I think once you get past Verhoff, I think there's this group of defensemen. We'll get to that in the draft segment. But he's right in the conversation to be the second defenseman picked in this draft and that could be go very early in the draft class. And like I said, I think he's from everything I've been told I think he has the inside track to being the starting seven for Team Canada right now.
- [08:58]
Host/Moderator
The left side in general for Canada is interesting here because, you know, and you also have Jackson Smith in this conversation. I think we're still waiting to hear on Sam Dickinson that, that alters the picture for all of this, Chris. But when you look at the left side for Canada, Carl's Smith, like, which of these guys do you feel like? It sounds like Corey's locked in on Carl's having a better shot over Smith here to make this team. Can they both make it? Is it depend on Dickinson? How do you handicap the left side?
- [09:22]
Chris Peters
Yeah, I agree with that. I think, I think Carl's is the inside track guy on, on making that roster over, over Jackson Smith. You know, I, that was. Smith was probably one of the bigger surprises to me, even though, you know, the numbers have been solid at, at Penn State. You know, I just think in terms of, of readiness for the world juniors. I think there's, you know, there's definitely some questions I have there, but for me, Carl, like, to Corey's point, Carl's had, you know, some of the best showings here at the latter stages. And we talked about it even going back to last summer after the World Junior Summer Showcase, that if you don't have Dickinson and you don't have Schaefer and you don't have, you know, like, all of a sudden you're, you're starting to really start ticking down and, you know, it is, is K. Sean Hison or Cameron Reed a good top pairing guy on your left side? You know, I don't know where Carl's will ultimately fit in, but I think he's going to be on the line in the lineup. I think he's going to play. And so, you know, that I think everything about his game in that I've seen so far is that he's ready for this. But I also think that he wouldn't be here if they didn't have the depth issues that they do on the left side. And I mean, even, you know, Ethan McKenzie, for that matter, a player that, that is undrafted, you know, and, and committed to go to North Dakota, which could potentially give North Dakota as many as, you know, three connected players on Team Canada is, is really intriguing. So, you know, I think that they're, they're trying to find ways to plug the, the holes that they have. Carl's maturity, to me is, is, is a separating factor for him and, you know, it'll be interesting to see. I don't think It's a decision between Carl's and. And Verhoff or I think you can still bring both of them if you want to. I don't know if Canada will, but I, I do think that Carl's has the inside track on being, you know, maybe the third pairing guy on the left side.
- [11:23]
Corey Pronman
I think they love mackenzie too. Like, my understanding is I think he's got a better than 50 chance of being in the starting seven on Boxing Day. His, his skating is excellent. He's super competitive. He has the traits. You want to fill one of those bottom PA roles for this team.
- [11:43]
Scott Wheeler
I think entering camp, if they don't get Dickinson, and I think they may get Dickinson as we're recording this on Thursday afternoon and Sam is playing with San Jose in Toronto tonight. So I think there's a good chance that you hear after tonight's game, like it would make a lot of logistical sense to send him from Toronto to Niagara Falls. I think if we're going to hear on Dickinson in the next couple of days, it will be tonight or tomorrow morning as this podcast releases. But if you're handicapping the not, I think if we're handicapping the nine that are there right now that Jackson Smith probably starts campus as the ninth guy.
- [12:18]
Corey Pronman
And I would guess Verhoff is a second cut if that. If it comes down to it.
- [12:23]
Host/Moderator
And then at forward, I mean, it sounds like Bear is kind of the bubble guy here. Is there any other forwards on the bubble that you guys are looking at?
- [12:29]
Scott Wheeler
Scott, I still, we talked about it on the previous show and I've talked with Corey about it a little offline, but I think Jake o' Brien is a, despite his success in the OHL this year, is a bubble guy. I don't think they viewed him as in the mix coming out of the World Junior Summer Showcase. He's obviously now played his way into the mix here. But if, if they feel like they're similar to Carbono, if they feel like their top six power play roles are accounted for, he's a trickier guy to suddenly have to find a role for. Like, he just doesn't fit as well as a Brady Martin or a Cole Bodwang or a Jet Luchenko or some of those sort of even a Carter Bear, some of those sort of down lineup guys that could, you could just plug and play in this sort of typical hierar for a Hockey Canada team. Now, maybe they go about it a little bit differently. Maybe they want a little bit of. A little bit more skill in their bottom six this year and he fits there. But he is a guy that I've wondered about as a, as a potential cut at forward.
- [13:23]
Corey Pronman
I think Bear and Coots for me would be the bubble guys. I think you just, especially with someone like Coots, it's like that at some point you go through this with the roster. It's Bo Dwin and Luchenko and Scott mentioned a couple, couple of the other guys there, like, you know, O'Reilly and Brady Martin. And at some point you can only bring so, so many guys, especially of a 511 variety in Coutts, who are basically going to be penalty killers on this team. He probably feels more like a next year candidate, but we'll see how his camp goes.
- [13:51]
Scott Wheeler
I don't think Reshmi, as good as he was at U18s and as excellent as he was at the World Junior Summer Showcase, where I thought him and Michael Hage were kind of the standouts at the Summer Showcase up front for Canada. I don't think Reshmi, based off his play with North Dakota to start the year, is necessarily a lock either.
- [14:05]
Corey Pronman
He'd be a similar, like, you know, similar player profile to Coutts. Right. Like it's. We'll, we'll see how, we'll see which one of these guys they decide to keep, goalie wise.
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Host/Moderator
How do you think Canada proceeds here?
- [14:15]
Corey Pronman
Corey?
- [14:15]
Host/Moderator
I, I. Do you expect them to take three? Could we be looking at just two here?
- [14:19]
Corey Pronman
They're going to bring two, and I would guess it's Ivankovic and George. I think Ravensburg is the best pro prospect of the three, but this is a world Junior tournament and in terms of who I'd want in a junior game tomorrow, I think it's clearly those two right now.
- [14:33]
Chris Peters
Yeah.
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Host/Moderator
All right, let's go over to USA now. And Chris, I don't think there was any huge surprises on this roster. And, and that's reflected when we did our depth chart debate. That was a much shorter segment. I think we probably went shorter on USA's whole roster than we did Canada's forwards alone. So not a huge pool of debate here. But a couple of things I thought were interesting. Will Zellers, the late ad. Anything else stand out to you?
- [14:54]
Chris Peters
I, I mean, I think the Zeller's AD is certainly the, you know, one of the, the, the more interesting things here he was, to me, of the players they left off was the biggest surprise that, you know, I know people might have looked at Cullen Potter, may have looked at JP Hurlburt, even though I, we did say there was you know, a zero percent chance they would consider going that route. You know, but adding Zellers, like, of course Zellers went off the weekend after the, the team was announced. You know, it's like, oh yeah, maybe, maybe we should have that guy. There's going to be some really interesting things about this D. I think there's, there's going to be some real competition among the defenseman. I think it's, it's much stronger among the defensemen competition wise. You know, I think guys like, like Chase Reed have, have now put themselves in firmly into the mix of being on the team after, you know, not being on the U18 team last year and then not going to the summer showcase. You know, it creates battles. I think guys like, you know, Blake Fiddler are going to have to really battle for a spot to, to get in there. You know, guys that, they also had Asher Barnett and, you know, and, and Dakota Rail Mullen and others, you know, like they're, they're going to have some decisions, but I think Rao Mullen's probably going to be in there, no problem. But I think the addition of Reed really improves the look of potential power play units for them among the defensemen. I think Cole Hudson is a no doubter. And then, you know, I would probably look at Reed as a potential number two power play guy. That was something that stood out in the World Junior Summer Showcase that they didn't really have. Yeah, you know, Luke Osborne was, was out there. You know, guys that Rail Mullen was out there and they're good, but like they don't have the skill level of a Chase Reed. And so I think that that's going to be a huge boon for, for this US Team. The other thing that I would say, we were kind of down on them when we were talking about, you know, down on the roster. And certainly the goaltending is a concern. You know, I think that the center depth is a concern. But I also think that the way that this is structured now that you see it on paper, enough guys with world junior experience, a decent decor, it's not amazing. Certainly not as good as last year's team. But I do think that they have reason to feel like they can compete. And whether that means they're competing for gold, I don't know. But I think that this is a team that has, that they're going to be able to put a pretty credible team on the ice. They just need one of those goalies and I think it'll be Nick Kemp to, to really step up and play a really strong role. At least manage games for him. If we want to steal a football term, you know, don't let in the big goal. Don't, you know, don't make the big mistake. They're going to have a chance.
- [17:36]
Scott Wheeler
Hagens has been dealing recently, too. Like, James has played his best hockey of the season the last few weekends.
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Chris Peters
Yeah, great point. I think a number of guys have, have elevated since we've had some of these discussions. Chase Reed as well.
- [17:49]
Host/Moderator
I mean, he's.
- [17:49]
Chris Peters
He goes off and scores a hat trick right after he gets named to the team. So, you know, like, I think that guys continue to elevate and that's the thing about this. You're trying to find those guys that are, that are pushing. I think Hagan's, you know, this is going to be his team. He's got to find a way to make him make an impact.
- [18:05]
Corey Pronman
Are we sure, though? Like, I think if the college season ended right now, wouldn't, like, Max Plant be the Hobie Baker winner right now?
- [18:11]
Chris Peters
He would be. Yeah. Yeah.
- [18:13]
Corey Pronman
Like, I feel like I'm really curious to see the impact he has on this team and, and this tournament. Like, why is it Hagen's team. It could very easily be Plant's team based on the way their seasons have gone so far.
- [18:24]
Chris Peters
True, true. I mean, you know, when you have the number one center from last year's team back, I think that's kind of.
- [18:29]
Corey Pronman
Who hasn't played center all year.
- [18:30]
Chris Peters
That's very, very true. Yeah, that's great. That's great that both of USA's best centers are not centers on their teams right now. So. Yeah.
- [18:39]
Scott Wheeler
On Max punt, I actually heard that Plunt may end up playing center for this group. That they're. That that would, they're considering trying him there.
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Chris Peters
I wouldn't, I. That would make sense. I mean, he is. Honestly, the thing about Max is he is such a smart player and I, I think that that is, that is a big reason why he's having success in college. He's crafty, he's sneaky, he's got great vision and he's got great work ethic. So I think that you could put him down the middle and that very well could be the slot for him and make him a facilitator from the middle. I think he can drive play from there.
- [19:11]
Host/Moderator
All right, well, we're obviously going to talk a lot more about the outlook for both of those teams coming up on the World Junior preview episode, but for now, let's take a quick break. We're going to come back and we're going to talk about Corey's latest draft rankings.
- [19:23]
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- [20:45]
Advertiser/Announcer
Guys, thanks for helping me carry my Christmas tree.
- [20:47]
Chris Peters
Zoe, this thing weighs a ton. Live with your legs man.
- [20:50]
Host/Moderator
Santa. Santa, did you get my letter?
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Chris Peters
He's talking to you, Bridges.
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Host/Moderator
I'm not.
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Advertiser/Announcer
Of course he did.
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Chris Peters
Right Santa, you know my elf Drew Ski here.
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Host/Moderator
He handles the nice list and elf.
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Scott Wheeler
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Corey Pronman
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- [22:28]
Host/Moderator
All right, we're back. And Cory, you had a new draft list come out this week and some pretty interesting movement on it, starting with I. I don't think anyone who's listened to our show is going to be surprised by this, but Gavin McKenna slips from number one. What they may be surprised by is that he slipped to number four. Can you kind of talk us through how you wrestled with where to stick McKenna here? Obviously it the trend this year has been that he that he might drop.
- [22:48]
Corey Pronman
But at 4, I think right now for me and really talking to the league, it's the same thing that there's a group of four players right out the top of the draft. McKenna being one, I have our Stenberg for Lunda being the other, the winger for Lunda. They have Nodak defenseman Keaton Verhoff and Mesquite center Ty and Lawrence. I think that's the clear top group in the draft right now. You could talk to some people in the league. They might have minority opinions here or there, but I think that's where the consensus is right now and that's how I view it too. So you start going through those four players and you look at what Stenberg's doing against men this year and that's already a really impressive trait there and in seeing how his offense translates up levels. So that's that would be a tiebreaker for me between him and McKenna because I think the skill is close. And then with Verhoff and, and Lawrence, it's just the premium position guys and the guys I think can play both ways and I think the value to their team will be greater at the NHL level. I'm sure some people the most common criticism I've gotten of this just reading my Twitter mentions the comments in the article is how can you leapfrog Lawrence based on seven games or eight games of USHL play he's had and I don't expect people to be detailed enough to know where all my previous lists were, but as you guys know, Lawrence was two the last time I put a list out. So really, the only thing that really changed, really, is that he came back. It looked exactly like I thought he was going to. And McKenna had a tough final month of college hockey, and. And that precipitated the changes there. And we'll see how the rest of Lawrence's year goes. Verhoff's, McKenna's, Stenberg. McKenna. Stenberg will have extremely important world junior tournaments coming up here. We'll. We'll see how they perform there. But that's kind of where I stand on that right now. And maybe we get some new information, maybe it moves those guys up or down. But I think right now there's this, this group of four players, and I think you could put them really in any order, and it would be reasonable.
- [24:38]
Host/Moderator
It's funny. Like, you could push back and you could say, hey, seven games at number one. Like, NHL teams are gonna. We just saw a guy who played less than half a season go number one, and he's outshining what even the most optimistic of projections could have been. I'm not saying Tynan Lawrence is going to have a Matthew Schaefer like ascent, but it's really about what you do when you play. And for. And Corey for. For Lawrence, that has been what.
- [25:00]
Corey Pronman
Yeah, he's been outstanding. And you can't just erase the body of work either. People can use the body of work argument for McKenna. Well, Lawrence did last year in the USHL was unbelievable. Like, he was the best player in the playoffs there, and he was Canada's best player. I thought the Helenka Gretzky in the summer, too. And I think people will say, well, well, yeah, but you will compare the office weight. Him and Stenberg or him and McKenna. It's not the same thing. Yeah, I know it's not the same thing. I'm not saying that he had the same level of skill as those guys, but he's a way better skater. He's, you know, notably bigger. He's extremely competitive. Like, to me, the comparison is more like, how would he compare someone, like, say, Michael Misa at the same age? And I think it'd be really similar, quite frankly. I think there'd be some. Some mild differences in terms of how they play, but I think they're the same level of prospect. And if you look at how they. They trended historically, there's. There would be a lot of overlap.
- [25:50]
Host/Moderator
There yeah. One of the things I found interesting about this list is just, you know, the, the D have really risen up here and. And you have Verhofen, number two. We talked about Carl's. He's at number six on your list. Chase Reed at number seven. A guy we have hardly talked about at all on this podcast is the Latvian Albert smiths. He's at 5. Dax and Rudolph 8. Xavier Vilna of 12. You got another cluster at the late teens, early 20s. Scott I know is really big on Ryan Lynn. I see that Corey and I wonder like, is the defense core? Is the blue line becoming the identity of this draft?
- [26:19]
Corey Pronman
Yes, absolutely. And then you have some other players here we didn't mention. You could mention. You hope. Rainen, who I think will be on Finland's world junior team. You have Adam Gollier, who will be on Slovakia's world junior team playing a prominent role.
- [26:30]
Host/Moderator
The Swedes a lot of.
- [26:32]
Corey Pronman
Yeah, you got. I think William Hawkinson will be on Sweden's world junior team. Baltic Gustafson's been hurt, but he's a really promising prospect. There's a lot of really exciting defensemen in this year's draft. Luke Sharer with the program impressed a lot of scouts in that the games against team chl. I think he'll be like Olivia late. He could be a late first rounder. A lot of big mobile defensemen in this year's draft. A lot of defensemen with significant offense. You think could be a power play guy in the NHL. So yeah, I think, you know, there's some senders who've emerged this year, but in terms of the premium positions, this is definitely more of a defense tilted draft right now.
- [27:07]
Host/Moderator
You, I know, are a huge villain of guy. So I think the thing that surprised me most is how many D you had ahead of him. What changed there? Or is it other guys moving up or softening?
- [27:15]
Corey Pronman
Yeah, I think more just other guys moving off. Just how good Rudolph and Reed have been and. And Carl's. And I think as much as I love Villanov, I think and as good as I thought he was against the NTDP the other week, and as good as he's been in the queue, I don't think he's been quite as dominant in the queue as I thought he was going to be, quite frankly, and I think there are some mild concerns there still on his defense, I thought those games against the program are some of the hardest games I've seen him play. Like I think in the. In the queue. His compete level and his Physicality have been significant concerns for me. His defending as well. Like, so I have some, like I, I've thought of go as a comp for him and then you start having debates about, well, how good is Gossas Bear? Like, I, you know, you know, I, I, you know, it's gonna be an interesting conversation with him. Like when I saw him last year I thought like he was more of like the premium small defenseman. And then there's been times I've watched him this year, I'm not sure. So I, I've got to kind of figure that out right now with him where I fall. But I think when you're unsure, you'd just rather take the six, two guys who can skate and have offense, which are, you know, Carl Smith, Rudolph Reed. Like those guys are sure thing. Top four defensemen.
- [28:25]
Host/Moderator
This becomes a huge world junior subplot, Scott. Like, especially if you can get Carl's onto Canada, if you can get Chase Reed onto usa, I assume Smith is going to be there for Latvia. Like this becomes a great subplot for this world junior tournament.
- [28:37]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, I mean you're going to have Adam Novotny. He played, he's been playing on and off of the first line for the Czechs over the last calendar year in terms of their, their U20 tournaments that they've played in and events that they've played in. So no shortage of talent. You're going to have obviously vgo, Bjork and, and Ivar Stenberg as a, as very prominent parts, including Bjork. Like, I, I think Bjork's probably a second or third line center for this.
- [28:59]
Host/Moderator
Team and those are forwards, obviously. Those two guys, Novotny and Bjork. Yeah, yeah.
- [29:03]
Scott Wheeler
But it's.
- [29:04]
Corey Pronman
Savanto will be on Finland.
- [29:05]
Host/Moderator
Yep.
- [29:07]
Scott Wheeler
This, there's no shortage this year in terms of that talent. And we, we didn't get that last year. Like everybody was looking forward last year to getting Porter Martone and Matthew Schaefer and James Hagens in a game together. And we didn't get it because of Schaefer's injury at last year's tournament. This year you're going to have some measuring stickings. I think if Sweden and Canada play, it will be despite the fact that the Americans have won the last two tournaments. I think if Sweden and Canada play, maybe selfishly from our side of it here, but I think that's the most compelling game of the tournament because you get Stenberg and McKenna on the ice together and you get them head to head. So it's Going to be a. The draft eligibles are going to be a significant storyline in this year's event.
- [29:50]
Chris Peters
Yeah.
- [29:51]
Host/Moderator
Chris mentioned earlier that, yeah, you know, the political situation with Hurl Burt meant he was. He was probably not going to end up on Team USA ever. But Corey, he's another guy that shoots up your list here. He's in the top 10 now. You know, for you, I. You. You do tend to be a little more cautious to elevate kind of the small offensive winger into quite this territory. So you must have really seen something here to feel good about Hurlburt.
- [30:11]
Corey Pronman
A couple of things. One is he has grown, like, he has grown since his program days. He's about an inch, inch and a half taller from where he was at the program a year ago. Two, he's competing more consistently. That was a big concern for me last year was, does this guy have the inside game? Does he. Does he what? Does he play hard enough on a consistent basis? And. And that's been the case in the Western League this year. I mean, he's not really a hard to play against guy. He's not super fast. So there are some projection and translation concerns here, but I don't think there are issues. I don't think there are. They. I would call that was parts of his game's flaws. And then when you look at his skill and his hockey sense, they're both extremely impressive traits. You know, definitely one of the more creative players in this year's draft. And, I mean, he's just been tearing up the Western League, I think, as we record as he leads the Western League in scoring by like, nearly 10 points. And, you know, he's just. He's been the best player in that league this season, and he's going to need to keep it up. Given those translation concerns. He's going to need to show that he's still this player. But from what I've seen, there's a legit brain there, legit stick to potentially play in a top six and in a power play in the NHL. And he. This looks like one of the guys who may not have the traditional athletic traits you want, but he has all the skill in the world.
- [31:30]
Scott Wheeler
Whenever I've watched Kamloops, I've been very impressed by his. His work ethic this year. Like, he's in the mix of everything that's happening on the ice when he's out there. So credit to him because it's, it's. It's been noticeable.
- [31:42]
Host/Moderator
I think what surprised me most is that you had him Ahead of Belches, because that's a guy who we were talking about in the top five, I think, as recently as the last list. And he's the opposite. He's. He's the elite athlete. He's extremely competitive, highly physical, and has shown more offense, at least he had early in the year. So maybe it's. Maybe it's on that front. But where did Hurlburt overtake Belches for you?
- [32:01]
Corey Pronman
Well, one, they just played on the same team, and I thought Earlberg, especially in the first game against the program, he was way better. And just in general, I think when you look at belt chess right now, I think there's a lot of scouts trying to ask, like, okay, is this. Are we wondering at the beginning, okay, we got Slavkovski here, and now it's like, oh, maybe we have Nick Richie or Lawson Krause on our hands right now instead, and we'll see how the rest of his year goes. I guess that dog disagrees with me, but, you know, I. I don't know how high in his senses or his stick or his competitiveness. I think, you know, his compete is good. He's physical. I don't think he's like a Landiska compete guy. I don't think, you know, he has like that Krause in him where he's going to run guys over. So I think you're kind of wondering, like, if the offense is an elite here. Are you really just getting, like a second or a third liner at the end of the day? Maybe more of a second liner for me, but that's kind of where I fall right now.
- [32:55]
Host/Moderator
All right, well, let's take a quick break right there. We're gonna come back. We got a really good mailbag on tap.
- [33:03]
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Host/Moderator
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Corey Pronman
I needed relief.
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- [33:58]
Corey Pronman
Ask your rheumatologist about Cosentyx.
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- [35:36]
Host/Moderator
All right, we are back and the College Football Playoff bracket is set after a roller Coaster Season Final 12 are going to thrash it out to make January's national championship game and the Audible the Athletics Dedicated college football podcast led by Bruce Feldman, Stuart Mandel and Ralph Russo is going to cover every blade of grass on the field. Who you got to go all the way?
- [35:56]
Scott Wheeler
Scott well, the next game of college football that I watch in full will be the first game of college football that I watch in full. So I might not be the guy to answer this question.
- [36:05]
Host/Moderator
All right, that's a James Madison vote. They count those. So let's get to the mailbag here. Should be a good one on tap. Chris Nabil Raymond wants to know if Trevor Zegras continues his point per game pace even as a winger, how does that change the outlook of the Flyers current rebuild since he's still only 24?
- [36:20]
Chris Peters
I mean it certainly helps. I don't know that it necessarily you Know, dramatically changes the trajectory, but it definitely helps. And I mean, having Zeger's playing as much as he's playing right now, as well as he's playing right now. You know, he's. He's ticking towards his numbers from last season already, which is great because last season wasn't good. You know, it's interesting. I wonder what would have happened and how he would have looked within this. This kind of new look, Ducks lineup as well. Yeah, but I think that, you know, being where he is in Philadelphia, having a new lease on life, having an opportunity to be relied upon and. And say, hey, like, we made a big trade for you. We need you to make it work. You know, we need you to. We need you to. To bring it. And I think that he's doing that. I think that we're seeing, you know, him enjoying hockey again. I think that's one of the things that, as I watch the Flyers is like, this is a guy that looks like he's having fun again. Maybe it's not with the highlight reel plays all the time in terms of, like, he's not scoring Michigan goals every day, but, you know, he is playing more like the Trevor Zegras we saw at the beginning of his career, where it was like, fun was part of the equation. And so I think that that's really important. And. And the fact that he's doing it in. In Philadelphia, where they have some skill coming up, like Mitch Cobb's playing better, other guys are playing better. That is a really good thing. So do I think he's like a cornerstone piece or anything of where they're at right now? I don't necessarily think so, but he's going to be a very important foundation. Like. Like, he'll be an important piece as far as having that scoring pop that you need for any team, and the fact that you get it from a more veteran player is pretty important, but I think it's, you know, this is more. The rebuild to me is more about what's Martone going to do, what's Mitchkov going to do. Those are the kind of things that I think matter more.
- [38:17]
Corey Pronman
And they still need way more premium position guys, too.
- [38:19]
Chris Peters
100%. Yeah. There's a long way to go. Yeah.
- [38:22]
Corey Pronman
Even the. We talk about the centers, even their defense right now, like, they have a lot of work to do there to build a real team.
- [38:28]
Scott Wheeler
I kind of think about Zegras if they get to that real team. I kind of think you have to think about Zegras now is like, can he be that, that Kuznetsov, that Phil Kessel, like that skill guy on a team that has the other pieces around him. The challenge is that maybe Michkov is also that guy. And you look at the Stanley cup champion teams and there haven't really been two Phil Kessels or two Kuznetsovs. Like it's kind of been one of that type. So I do wonder about the makeup now. If Porter Martone's a driver and, and they find those deep pieces that Corey's talking about and they find the center, then it's a different conversation. Maybe, but there are, there is a little bit of rhyme or reason, I think to, to make that connection is.
- [39:12]
Host/Moderator
A pretty fun collection of wingers. I will say that that that is between Mitchkoff, Zeger's, Martone. That's, that's about as skilled a set of wingers as you're going to find Corey. Alex Ortiz wants To know, if McKenna had stayed in junior this year instead of going to college and was killing it just like last season or even maybe a step up, would you still have dropped him from first or is it that other players are catching up and passing him?
- [39:32]
Corey Pronman
It's a good question, one that I'm going to be asked often and have already been asked quite a bit by, by our readers and again, kind of we said in the earlier segment, I don't expect people who read my articles or listen to this show to remember every single thing I've ever said or written. But I think you guys will remember that I have have not been like a McKenna cheerleader for the last two years. I've. I know I when we got, when we came out of his clinker Gretzky a year ago, I was pretty harsh about him even going into the summer last year I was like, yeah, he's probably number one. But the but but we'll see. And I think if we would have gone to his draft year, you know, he started looking at things a little bit more critically. I can't make any guarantees. Do I think there's probably a better chance he's probably number one than he is right now when he went to go beat play against better players and just didn't really have a good first half. Yeah, of course, like we expect if he would have stayed in the Western League, he'd probably be the clear leading scorer right now in that leagues. But I still think you would be having some conversations about him. Even the Western League people I know who saw McKenna a lot in the past two years still questioned his compete still questioned, his pace still questioned, his play away from the puck questioned how it would translate. But it might be more of like an Alexi left Raniere situation where you're like, but yeah, yes, he might have this skating issue or this issue, but he has 200 points, so shut up and take him. So I think that that would. It would be a little bit more complicated. Probably be the better way to answer.
- [40:53]
Host/Moderator
That to stay in June. You've made this point in the past, right. To stay in junior with the college avenue available would have raised a different set of questions. And it's almost pick your poison at that point. So not an easy one.
- [41:05]
Corey Pronman
Yep. And we'll see. You know that with some future kids now too. Like, I don't think like Landon Dupont or Alexi Joseph are so killing it in junior that it's that they. That so presume that they should go to college. I don't know if either of them will go to college next year, but I think that's going to be a situation for future draft eligibles for sure.
- [41:22]
Host/Moderator
Scott, Fred Thornborough wants to revisit the 2024 defense class. That's the one that had all those D that I think they ended up just going top 12. But Artem Levshinov, Carter Yakim, Chuck Zane, Perek, Anton Salaya, Sam Dickinson, Ziv Bouilliam. How would you rank them two years later?
- [41:39]
Scott Wheeler
Honestly, I think I'm probably in. In the same spot now as I was then. Then I had Artie Levchinov one, and then Salayaev and Yakimchuk kind of in a separate group, so fifth and sixth. And then I had a cluster of Parek and Dickinson and Boyam sort of in between the top end and the bottom end there. I still feel about the same way. Like, I would definitely have Salaya and Yakimchuk fifth and sixth amongst that group. The top four might be reordered ever so slightly differently than I had it. I had it Levshinov, Parek, Boyam, Dickinson, in that order. At draft time, I think Dickinson maybe rises one or two spots there, but it's still those front four and then. And then a bit of a gap for me between those that. That group of four and Salaya and Yakimchuk.
- [42:31]
Corey Pronman
I probably would have like a group. Top group with Lev would be one for me as well. And then I would think I'd have Dickinson and Boyam in a group and then the next group for me would be, you know, would be Yakimchuk, Parrick and Salayev. I Parrick I really struggle with, like, I really don't know what this guy's going to be at the end of the day. I think his. His hockey sense is really good, but I think he'd be closer to that second group than the. Than the first group.
- [42:55]
Host/Moderator
The interesting thing there is Salaya, because the upside there, he had the scoring binge at the start of his draft year, and the floor has always been evident with the physicality, the size, the athleticism. But when the scoring binge goes away, does it make you change your view on the upside at all?
- [43:12]
Corey Pronman
Yeah, it kind of looks more like Zadorov right now.
- [43:15]
Host/Moderator
Still a good player. Still very good. Top four NHL.
- [43:17]
Chris Peters
Yeah, he'll play in the league. He'll play in the league.
- [43:20]
Corey Pronman
I think if you're the Devils, when you're looking at, well, can we. We can't even find space for Simon Nemes on our power play despite the season he's having, then I think you look at that sky and you're like, yeah, we'll take this guy. Like, you know, he will play in our lineup. He'll help us win games. Even if he's probably only going to get you 10 points a year.
- [43:38]
Host/Moderator
Hold that thought on the Devil's defenseman. We may come back around to that in a couple of questions here.
- [43:43]
Chris Peters
Oh, boy.
- [43:44]
Corey Pronman
Yeah.
- [43:45]
Host/Moderator
Chris, how well does another McKenna question. This is from Ken. How well does McKenna have to perform at the World Juniors? He says to lock down number one overall. How about to just get himself back into number one overall?
- [43:55]
Chris Peters
Yeah. To get back into number one overall, he's got to be the MVP of the tournament. I mean, like, you know, that's. That's kind of where I'm at at this point. I think that the, like, how down bad it is right now is. Is probably, you know, it's been stated a ton. We've beaten a dead horse on it. But there. But it's, it's not just that. It's not just about the points that he has to score. It's about, you know, can he drive, play, can he make the others around him better? Does he compete hard enough? What are the. What are the questions we're asking right now? It's consistency of competitiveness. You're. You've got to be not just good at the tournament. You've got to be good in the toughest games. You've got to be good against, you know, in. In the preliminary round. Finland, essentially. You know, I think the checks are going to be tough. I think there's a lot of you know, if you get into the medal round, Sweden, usa, you're going to have tough games. You have to be able to, to do that. I think for him like the best way to quiet things down is, is a strong World Junior championship. We've seen it over the years, different players that have more solidified themselves in the draft conversation. At the World Juniors. The example I go back to most frequently because I think it was one of the most significant was what was Nico Heer and he almost single handedly beat USA in the quarterfinals of a year. The USA won the tournament. So like you know, that was one of those kind of moments where he had it. Now for Gavin he's got a couple of things working against him right now. It's that, you know, the points are still there. He's scoring isn't amazing but they're still there. It's everything else. So he's got to actually pass the eye test more I feel like at the World Juniors than he does even scoring a ton of points. Because now you, you look back to his under 18 worlds when he set the Canadian scoring record and it was incredible. He did a great job. But I think as we look at these tournaments, the absence of Russia and the absence of usually more than one meaningful game, you know that, that you've lost, it does kind of diminish a little bit what we, what we're going to take away from this. The nice thing about this year as Scott was talking about, we're going to have one to one comparisons all over the place, which is great. We'll be able to see them on either the same ice surface or in the same setting or against the same opponents. And that is going to give us a little bit more of a measuring stick. So I think that there is pressure on Gavin about his, you know, like but Canada, based on paper, he should be able to get his cookies here. So it's just do everything else.
- [46:32]
Corey Pronman
I mean he's returning member from last year's team. Like yeah, he's, he has a lot of international experience. I mean if we were handicapping who's going to be the MVP of the tournament, he would probably be one of the first two to three names that comes up. Right. Like, I mean at the end of the day, despite all his issues, it's still all world skill. That power play is going to be rolling. He's going to get a lot of touches, he's going to get a lot of points. But to Chris's credit it's also just, it is mostly about how he's going to perform in the Metal Realm games?
- [46:59]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, yeah, it's probably. It's probably. Yeah. McKenna, Martone, Stenberg, Hudson. Those are the names.
- [47:10]
Chris Peters
Yeah.
- [47:10]
Host/Moderator
All right, next one. Corey. And I'd love to get all of you on this one, but let's start with Corey. Where does Ben Kendall rank in a 2025 redraft at this point?
- [47:19]
Corey Pronman
That's a great question, because obviously he's been very good in the NHL, but just because he's got into the NHL first does not mean he's kind of leapfrogged a lot of those premium pro prospects that went very early in the draft. Like, you start going down, like, the. The names that were the top tier, you know, Schaefer, Misa, Frondell, denoye, Martin, Martone, Hagens, o'. Brien. Could you get him ahead of one or two of those guys? Yeah, maybe, like, Martin and Denoye haven't been great to start the year. It's still struggle getting him ahead of them. But I could at least see the argument, especially for the guys. I was more like Brady Martin, given that he's, you know, closer to his size, even though he's nowhere near as physical as Martin. I'm not really a big Mertka guy, so I can definitely get him ahead of Murtka. And then McQueen would be. I could go either way. McQueen's offense hasn't been great, but you're still looking at the physicality he's shown in school. And he's 6 5, and you can skate. Like, that's a really unique player. Like, we're talking about Belches earlier. Like, that's that profile, but he plays center. Like, that's a really intriguing player. So I would guess, like, he went 11, I guess like nine or 10, probably for me. So, like, deserve where he went. Shouldn't have been criticized as heavily, but I also don't think, like, they have, like, this budding superstar or anything like that. Like, it's more like kind of like how we felt about. There's a lot of analogies between him and Zach Benson, or at least Benson was two years. Two years ago. Probably a better skater than Benson and maybe not quite as hard, but. But yeah, well, we'll see long term. But yeah, at the moment, he is a center on the Penguins, but I think there's some close analogies there. And. And you could have arguments about what. How Benson has aged, but that's a whole other discussion.
- [49:01]
Chris Peters
Yeah. And I mean, I think, like, to Corey's point, like, get The NHL can lie to you sometimes, you know, because it's all situational. It's, you know, if. If the. The Penguins had a spot for them for. For Ben Kindle, a lot of teams would not have had. And so I think that that's another thing that you kind of have to take into account. No question. Like, I was. I was way too low on him last year. Based on what I've seen this year, based on the hockey sense and the other things that he has been able to do so far, I was definitely too low on him. But he did go 11th, which was higher than most of us expected him to go. And now, you know, the Penguins can at least have this time where they're like, hey, this is actually working out pretty darn well. Probably sooner than they even anticipated, but. Yeah, but just because a player makes it, you can't just, like, this is all still a long tail, and let's see where the kind of everything else plays out. But, I mean, you know, take the victory lap while you can and see. See what happens there. But I. I think to Corey's point, just because that player made it first, that was a great way of putting it. Just because a player made it first doesn't make him significantly better in terms of the long term of what these players are going to be.
- [50:09]
Corey Pronman
Thank you.
- [50:10]
Chris Peters
You're welcome.
- [50:11]
Scott Wheeler
Where would you have Kendall, I think about this. Yeah. About the same spot. He'd be 9 to 11.
- [50:17]
Chris Peters
Yeah. Yeah.
- [50:18]
Host/Moderator
That one was from Adam Smith, by the way. I forgot to say his name, but he is the invisible hand guiding our podcast here. Thanks, Adam, very much. Thank you very much. Tristan Scott wants to know, if you were the GM of the Canucks, what's your ideal trade package for Quinn Hughes?
- [50:33]
Scott Wheeler
I mean, my ideal trade package for Quinn Hughes is. Is a haul. The realistic package, I think, still has to be like, I'll almost flip it back to you, Max, because I've been fascinated to read the dialog on Red Wings Twitter, which somehow has ended up in my algorithm over the last couple of weeks and has been sort of frequently discussed as a hot topic, because it feels like every time I see someone, whether it's someone I follow who covers the Red Wings or one of the notable podcast hosts or bloggers, everybody is kind of having the same conversation, which is no to Simon Edmondson. And yet I don't think there's any scenario, if I'm the gm, to answer this question, if I'm the GM of the Vancouver Canucks, where I'm making that deal with. For Axel Sandin Pellica or Nate Danielson or one of those pieces as the centerpiece of the deal. Like, I think it there has to be an Edmondson level player and I don't think that downgrades what Edmondson is. I understand his value. I understand why Red Wings fans would want to keep him. But I also think Red Wings fans need to be reminded of how transformational Quinn Hughes is. Like, this is a future hall of Famer, this is a number one defenseman for the rest of his career until injuries or age says otherwise. Like, this is a Norris Trophy caliber player. And as great as Evans is, I think that, like he has to be in the deal for me if we're talking strictly like a Red Wings, a Red Wings transaction.
- [52:00]
Host/Moderator
I had this debate with a co worker recently who was making a similar point to you. I, I do feel like if I was Detroit, I would not put Simon Edmondson in this deal for a couple reasons. One, I look at the past trades of superstar players and I don't see really any Ed Vincent level players getting traded. Sometimes there's a prospect who you hope becomes that, but really not in that one who's in the NHL playing 22 minutes a night. Like I look at it and I say Eric Carlson got traded for Josh Norris before he debuted. A first round pick, Chris Tierney, Dylan DeMello and a second round pick. I don't see anything like a Simon Edmondson in that trade. I look at the Eichel trade and I guess you could say Alex Tuck would be the closest thing to that. But that still feel like a winger, still feels like a different thing to a top pair defenseman to me. And so that's one is the precedent and two is like the motivation for Detroit. It's if you have one of the best top pairs in the NHL right now in Edmondson and Moritz said, or just, you know, analytically, like wherever you want to rank it, top 10, whatever, obviously you get better if that's Quinn Hughes on the top pair instead. But you don't solve the main issue, which is that the decor as a whole overall isn't good enough. I think if you're trading for Quinn Hughes, the idea would have to be to pair him with, you know, a combination of Moritz Cider and Simon Edmondson. And then you have this, you know, unique team strength that would be your identity as a team, is how good the top of your blue line is. So I would do everything to keep Simon Evanson out of that trade. And I don't really see the Precedent, you know, when you're talking about a guy who's got one and a half years left, you can't sign him to extension when you make the trade. That, to me, is one of the big reasons why you couldn't even consider it. You know, Jack Eichel was traded with six years on his contract. I know there was the neck thing complicating it, but, you know, the team control they have on Simon Edmondson, the age, the Runway, and just the team situation. I'd keep him out of that, too. I do think the price is huge, though, on Hughes. Like, I'm not trying to say, like, they should have to give him away. I think it's three premium assets.
- [53:51]
Scott Wheeler
I think Hughes is a better trade piece than Carlson coming off of reconstructing his foot and Eichel coming off of the surgery. You consider age, you consider pedigree. Like, I do think two years difference, 26 and 28. Yeah, but it has to be a better. A better trade package now.
- [54:09]
Chris Peters
Yeah. And I would say, Max, if. If you don't include Simon Edmondson, okay, you're not getting Quinn Hughes. No big deal.
- [54:15]
Host/Moderator
It could be, but who else has given up Quinn Hughes? I mean, who else is giving up a Simon Edmondson? I'm saying, like. Like, right.
- [54:21]
Chris Peters
Somebody. Somebody's gonna have to.
- [54:22]
Scott Wheeler
To.
- [54:23]
Chris Peters
Somebody's gonna have to, because I'm not seeing anyone else's.
- [54:26]
Host/Moderator
Anyone else's name out there that's at that level, personally.
- [54:29]
Chris Peters
Yeah, I guess that's true.
- [54:30]
Host/Moderator
Simon Emitz. I mean, is Simon Nemes that level for you guys? I don't think so.
- [54:34]
Chris Peters
No. No, he isn't. No. I mean, that's the thing.
- [54:36]
Corey Pronman
He's been. He's been pretty good lately.
- [54:38]
Chris Peters
He has been good, but he's not. He's. I wouldn't put him with. But. Yeah, but I. I think. I think that. I think that that's the thing is, like, you know. Yeah. To your point, you're right. Trades like Quinn, Hugh, like, there really isn't a lot of precedent. There really isn't. Like, you know, in terms of where he is right now, the fact that he still has Runway to even be better than what he is right now. I think that's the thing. That. That, to me, like, we would have to see a trade that I feel would be. If I'm. If I'm Vancouver, it would have to be unprecedented. There is no way I can make that trade without a significant roster piece coming back in addition to future pieces. And. And to be completely honest with you, you know, I, I like even if it was Simon Evans and coming back the other way, what else do you, what else do you got for me? Right? You know what else? Because it couldn't just be that Max.
- [55:36]
Corey Pronman
Do we also like really see a fit here from the choice perspective? Like is you're breaking Quinn Hughes and you're bringing him in to be your number one defenseman, obviously your power play guy. Have, you know, Lee, you know, be a offensive leader for you and he definitely would do that. But like Detroit's power play has been excellent the last 18 months. Cider and Quinn Hughes have the same amount of points so far this season. Obviously there's. Quinn Hughes has definitely got more skill and there's not question there. But I, I kind of wonder if that's where their big need is supposed to like saying, trying to add like a prolific scorer, prolific forward to, to this team at some point.
- [56:12]
Host/Moderator
Well, what I would say here is like the power play has been really good. I, I absolutely think when use is still a fit in Detroit 100 and it's because, well, he's fit anywhere.
- [56:20]
Corey Pronman
It's just a matter of like, if you're gonna dump all these major assets of getting one piece, where would you rather target it? Essentially?
- [56:27]
Host/Moderator
It's a fair point. I mean, I still think that their blue line is a problem, like behind Cider and Edmondson. It's, you know, you got to find a way to piece together the other 35 minutes a night, basically. And Ben Shirat's been like, good this year, but he's not a forever piece. He's on an expiring contract. He's an older player for. When I look at the power play specifically, I'm not going to hijack this whole podcast and make it about the Red Wings, I promise. But like the driving force of the Red Wings power play I think is still Patrick Kane and he's not going to be there forever. And so that dynamic will change whenever Kane moves on. But, but I do get your point. Like Cider's been really good running that power play and it's not just this year. So it's a valid point. I think it's three premium assets plus a roster player, plus maybe something else for Quinn Hughes. And I think that like when I say premium assets, that's like first round pick or first round pick equivalents. That's more than Miko Rant and got like. And I know Brandon was a true pending versus Hughes a year out from that. Like, I, I think that's a huge Price, I just don't, I don't agree with the idea that like, you can't trade Quinn Hughes for, you know, for that price. I think that's a huge kickstart to a rebuild, personally, whether it's Detroit, whether it's anyone, whether it's New Jersey, whether it's Washington, like whatever. All these teams, Philly, that are getting floated that that's where it would be for me, but maybe I'm wrong. I don't know. Next one is from Isaiah and Chris. He wants to know if Porter Martone's NCAA performance has met or exceeded.
- [57:45]
Chris Peters
I would say. I would say met. You know, like, I think that the, the thing about Porter is, you know, the expectation, I think for any of these guys making the jump from junior to college, you know, would be, would be a transition of some kind. I think he's managed it as well as anybody. He's also part of one of the best teams. So, you know, to see what he's doing this year. He's been a goal scorer, he's been around the net. He's done, you know, pretty much all the things that you kind of would expect a Porter Martone to do. He's displayed the physicality. You know, I think that there's a lot of things that, that he's able to do on the ice that, you know, because of his size, excuse me, his size, his hockey sense and some of the other things that he does. You know, he's just been a very natural fit at Michigan State. So it's more that hand to glove situation, I think. You know, you talk about when these players are making these decisions about where to go. You have to have a sense of, of how you fit in. And I think that there's been a real natural fit for Porter there. And, and to me it's, you know, what we expect is this is a one and done situation. He's in the NHL by the springtime and he's going to be able to make that transition better because of, you know, the high intensity games. Now, Michigan State has taken a couple of little stumbles here of late, off on their path towards what we believe is a national title contending season. But he's been a real bright spot for a team that has a lot of talent around it. And, you know, I think he's been among their best, you know, and most consistent performers. Yeah.
- [59:30]
Host/Moderator
All right, last ones to Corey. This one is from Niskapoo. Is it surprising to many in the industry how generational Shaffer's year to date? Has been as a defense with a late birthday and given his prospect profile, he wasn't touted to the extent Bedard or Celebrini was for that matter. And also like we talked about the, the lack of reps he had last year. Like to come right into the NHL and do this is is pretty special.
- [59:53]
Corey Pronman
Yeah, I would reference that questioner to an article I did in the spring last year where I polled a bunch of NHL people and asked them to do the exercise where they ranked the last 10 first overall picks. And it's always a difficult article to do because I always. It's difficult to battle, you know, hindsight bias and compare, you know, trying to put yourself where you were at the time of those last 10 drafts. But there were a number of scouts who put him ahead of Bedard and I think one put him ahead of celebrity. And I think at the time you look at the comments of the article as calling it ridiculous and whatnot. And, and I think there were reasonable arguments to call it ridiculous. Guy had like whatever two goals in his OHL career or something like that going into his draft. But I think there were, I think it was a minority opinion. I think most did not expect this mostly, but it loved him. Thought he was the clear number one. Did not think he was going to be an impact player from day one, never mind being the Team Canada Olympic conversation in his first few months of the season. But I think there was plenty of people in the league who thought this is a a difference making type of prospect. This is a guy who's got a chance to be a star number one defenseman in Miro Haskin in type of category of defensemen. And he's just done it, I think even earlier than some expected him to.
- [61:09]
Host/Moderator
Yeah. All right, that is going to do it for us. Great show guys. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect series. Remember, you can catch more of Chris over at Flow Hockey on his podcast called Up. We'll talk to you soon. Starting a podcast or business can feel overwhelming. Schedules, logos and endless decisions. But the right tool can change everything for millions. That tool is Shopify. Shopify powers 10% of all US E commerce from Mattel to new brands just launching with templates for beautiful stores, AI tools for content and built in marketing, Shopify helps you sell smarter. If you're ready to sell, you're ready for Shopify. Turn your big business idea into With Shopify on your side, sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com TheAthletic go to shopify.com TheAThletic shopify.com TheAthLetic.
- [62:11]
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Host/Moderator
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Corey Pronman
I needed relief.
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- [63:06]
Corey Pronman
Ask your dermatologist about Cosentics.
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- [63:18]
Scott Wheeler
And yes, I'm stocking up because they make the best holiday gifts.
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Advertiser/Announcer
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Scott Wheeler
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Corey Pronman
Of course I'm getting my dad Tommy John.
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Chris Peters
Exactly.
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Chris Peters
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Corey Pronman
Hey.
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Host/Moderator
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