Loading summary
Transcript85 lines
- [00:00]
Max Boldman
Par le tu francais hablas espanol?
- [00:03]
Mark Lazarus
Parl italiano?
- [00:04]
Babbel Advertiser
If you've used Babbel, you would Babbel's conversation based technique teaches you useful words and phrases to get you speaking quickly about the things you actually talk about in the real world. With lessons handcrafted by over 200 language experts and voiced by real native speakers, Babbel is like having a private tutor in your pocket. Start speaking with Babbel today. Get up to 55% off your Babbel subscription right now at babbel.com acast spelled B A B B E L.com acast rules and restrictions may apply.
- [00:40]
Jake Stauch
I'm Jake Stauch, co founder and CEO of Cerval. We built Cerval to automate the IT work that slows companies down. Onboarding password resets, access to applications. My laptop stopped working. While employees wait for help, their real work is put on hold. It desperately wants to automate this work and that's why they need Servil. You just tell Servil what you want to automate in plain English and it's built. No drag and drop workflows, no expensive consultants. Employees get unblocked and IT teams go from drowning in tickets to building what actually matters. With Serval, IT becomes the AI engine powering the entire company. This is a new way to run it. We guarantee you'll automate 50% of all tickets and we'll prove it to you in a free four week pilot. Go to serval.com acast that's S E-R-V-A-L.com
- [01:32]
Dom Lucician
acast agents are getting smarter every day, but even the smartest agents get stuck without the right context and the right tools. That's where Notion comes in. With the recent launch of custom agents, Notion became the collaborative AI workspace where teams and agents work side by side. And now their new developer platform is turning that workspace into infrastructure developers can build on what sets Notion's developer platform apart. The collaborative workspace and the platform you build on are the same thing and unlike other single player platforms, Notion is built for teams with permissions, visibility and governance from day one. Plus, it's easy to use CLI authenticates in one line and with a cloud based zero infrastructure path, you can just write your code, deploy and you're done. Learn more about Notion's developer platform today at notion.comacast that's all lowercase letters notion.comacast to try Notion's developer platform today, notion.comacast.
- [02:47]
Mark Lazarus
This is the athletic hockey show.
- [03:02]
Max Boldman
Hey everybody. Max Boldman here alongside Mark Lazarus and Dom Lucician for another episode of the Athletic Hockey Show. We've got a Stanley cup final to preview, gentlemen. Chris Johnson's going to join us a little bit later on to talk offseason matters, but I want to start with the main event. And Dom, you had a really good preview. That came out on the Athletic earlier. This is two defensive heavyweights that we're going into. I still think it's going to be an entertaining series, but it's very possible. Goals are going to be at a premium.
- [03:28]
Dom Lucician
Yeah, I think Carolina has a bit of a reputation for that and that's not unfounded. They have Slaven, they have Miller as well. This year has been phenomenal. They have a bunch of two way forward stars like Ajo and Jarvis as well, Jordan Stahl. But I think what we've noticed during these playoffs is how fast they play, how aggressive they are and how much they tried to turn things the other way, get the offense going. They have played a much more rush oriented style this season that I think a lot of people didn't really notice until the playoffs happened. And I think even I think Ivan Demidov said that they just do everything so fast and that was the biggest takeaway from that series is hyper drive speed. And Vegas obviously he just handled that against Colorado and I think they're going to be in a more defensive posture during much of this series. So it'll be interesting to see that back and forth because obviously Vegas has the star power to counter that the other way.
- [04:34]
Mark Lazarus
Yeah, I think people are sleeping on how good the offenses are in both these teams. You look at Vegas and their transition game is incredible because of their defense. Right. What they did so well against Colorado is they blocked every shot, but they don't just block the shots, they turn the blocks into offense. They're so good at just switching gears. You block a shot, someone pounces on that loose puck and all of a sudden you got a two on one going the other way. And when you've got Eichel and you've got Marner and you've got Dorothea and you've got Mark Stone. Even at know less than 100%, there's enough guys on that team that can, that can counter and can score in those counter punches that I think we might see more goal, we might not see many more shots than we expect, but we might see more goals than we think.
- [05:11]
Dom Lucician
I, I just want to touch on that for a second just because you said something that just really came to Mind because I was surprised by this stat when we were doing the Preview. Is that S.H. theodore, who I think everyone thinks of smooth skating but puck moving defenseman is second in blocks for the playoffs behind Alex Carrier who is more defensive type. And I think his glow up this season defensively is a big part of all of this. That he can not only move the puck out of trouble, but he is also blocking shots at an unfathomable rate for his reputation.
- [05:45]
Max Boldman
I just think it's one thing to do what Laz is talking about and have kind of that counterpunch approach defense into offense against Montreal and Colorado who are teams that want to play up and down. I think it's going to be a different thing in this series. I mean, Vegas, especially when they spread out Marner, Eichel and Stone across their top three lines, has one of the top, you know, five to six defensive forwards in the world on the ice kind of at all times. Carolina is going to have a lot of minutes with Sebastian Ajo out there, a lot of minutes with Jordan Stahl out there, right like that second line of stank of. And Blake hall has, has kind of been the offensive revelation for them. But I still just, I, I look at this and I think, man, it's, you know, I think all types of offense rush cycle, like I think it's all going to be really hard to come by with some of the players that are going to be on the ice for, I don't know, 70% of the minutes in this series.
- [06:32]
Mark Lazarus
I'm curious to see how Carolina handles Vegas defense versus Colorado because Colorado just kind of kept going right at it, right? They're like, they were insistent that what they do works and then when they started getting a little in their heads about all the shot blocks, they couldn't create any offense at all because they weren't, they weren't. They got out of their game. Carolina just fires from everywhere, right? That's their entire game is funneling pucks toward the net, creating some havoc around the net and getting some ugly goals. That's what Colorado kept saying they needed to do against Vegas and didn't actually do. I think Carolina might be better suited to kind of break that Vegas pressure by just firing at the net and then working, working for the puck on the forecheck, working for rebounds. That's what they do so well where Colorado is a little bit more of a skill team and really struggled getting through that kind of slog that Vegas creates.
- [07:14]
Max Boldman
Dom, one of the things you pointed out in the preview was Kind of the big question of this series for you, and it revolves around the Sebastian Ajo line. We talked about how good Carolina's second line has been, but to win the Stanley cup, you figure you're going to need your best forward to be your best forward in the most important games.
- [07:31]
Dom Lucician
Yeah, we have talked about Carolina's star power problem for it seems like a decade, and Carolina knows it. They traded for Genzel, they traded for Rantin, they signed Ehlers. They're doing all the things necessary to get that top layer as juicy as possible. But if Ajo and Jarvis aren't rolling, usually that means your team is screwed. Carolina is so good everywhere else that it hasn't mattered, but that's partly because Ottawa's third line with Pinto just wasn't itself during the first round. Philadelphia, no disrespect you, not a real playoff team. And then Montreal. Their depth was really good against Tampa and Buffalo, but just couldn't handle what Carolina had, which was just another level in terms of that. But throughout all three of those series, Ajo and Jarvis just weren't doing what they need to do. And against Vegas, that's going to be a major, major hurdle because of the genuine star power Vegas has on their side with the way Eichel and Marner are playing right now. So you look at what the Stankovan line is doing so far. They did that against Montreal's third line and Buffalo's third line and Ottawa's third line, and that's all fine, but when Mark Stone is on the third line with Thomas Hurdle, it's a much more different challenge. And you're going to need Ajo and Jarvis to start clicking. And that especially is true on the power play, which has been not so great these playoffs. And that's why I think the big star power angle comes in.
- [09:10]
Mark Lazarus
It's such a cliche to say your best players need to be your best players in the playoffs, but you look at Vegas, that's what's happening. Mitch Marner's the consmyth favorite. Jack Eichel's right behind him. Can we even think of a team that's won a Stanley cup without any of its big guns going? All due respect to Logan Stankovin and Taylor hall, these aren't the big guns. These are step scores. These are secondary players. Can you even think of a team that's managed to do this, even get this far, without any of its big guns really going?
- [09:36]
Dom Lucician
I'm trying and I can't.
- [09:38]
Mark Lazarus
Yeah, I can't either. Yeah, I was hoping someone smarter than me might be able to remember one.
- [09:42]
Max Boldman
We've had like the surprise breakouts or like Sam Bennett. I wouldn't call one of Florida's three best players, but it's not like their best players also weren't really, really good. I think Sam Reinhardt in particular had a really good playoffs the year that Bennett won the cons mice. So it's a good point by you. You mentioned kind of these like perpetual narratives on Carolina and the other one is really the goaltender. And you know, Vegas is getting really good goaltending right now. Carolina, really, it's just been one game from Freddie Anderson that would really make you nervous. But how do you feel like the goaltending matchup sizes up here?
- [10:13]
Dom Lucician
It's goaltending, so you truly never know what is going to happen. I wouldn't have expected Anderson to be second in GSAX during these playoffs and been not just good, but lights out with how aggressive Carolina plays. Like he is getting some grade A chances as a ratio that you just wouldn't expect from a team that's so good defensively. Like, they'll allow like 15 shots but like 7 will be great A's. That's what Anderson's dealing with it and that's just a really tough. Yeah, workload heart. I also didn't expect to play this well. On one hand, Vegas's defense has been incredible and I think that has helped him be good. But against Colorado, he was obviously lights out. So going to the playoffs, Anderson, Hart, those look like problem areas for both teams. Whoever can keep it going for as long as possible. I mean, that could literally be the edge in the series. I have no dog in the fight, but the way Anderson's playing right now, he looks like his vintage self. And when he's healthy and when he's on a hot streak, he looks like one of the best goalies in the league. And if he stays hot, I think it has to be him.
- [11:24]
Mark Lazarus
Look, guys, Jesse Granger is not here. We can all finally say it. Goaltending isn't real. It is magic. It makes no sense. There's no rhyme or reason. Carter Hart was maybe the worst goalie in the league this year. He's been amazing in the playoffs. Freddie Anderson has a long history of falling apart in the conference final. He was great against Montreal. Goaltending is stupid. It doesn't matter. And we should stop talking about it forever.
- [11:44]
Max Boldman
It is pretty funny timing that right after, like the $10 million goalie wins two cups in a row, here we are with like, two guys that we would have been like, oh, yeah, this goaltending is going to sink them immediately.
- [11:54]
Dom Lucician
There's.
- [11:54]
Max Boldman
There's no way.
- [11:55]
Mark Lazarus
Market. Cor. Right from.
- [11:56]
Max Boldman
Yeah, market. Even last year's. I remember looking last year at, like, how all the remaining goaltenders in. In the. I think it was in the second round were acquired. I was shocked at how many were either on waivers, were just undrafted free agents, were, you know, cheap free agents. Like, there are plenty of. Of indicators that tell you, like, man, goalie should not be your. Your prime. That's certainly kind of been the. The Carolina model is do not invest, you know, your premium assets, your. Your big chunks of salary cap space in it. It just happened that the $10 million goalie won the cup for the second straight year. So I felt like, all right, well, maybe I should throw this out the
- [12:30]
Mark Lazarus
window and Vasilevsky a couple of years before that. But you look at Shesterkin, you look at Sorokin, you look at Hellebock, you look at so many of these great goalies, they're not winning anything. It really seems so dependent on the team in front of you. If you asked me, which two teams in the league would it be easiest to play goalie behind, I would tell you Carolina and Vegas. And lo and behold, these two mediocre goalies are playing fabulously behind Carolina and Vegas. I think that might have a little more to do with it than we want to admit.
- [12:55]
Max Boldman
Les, I want to ask you about the Taylor hall storyline of these playoffs because I think that's been, you know, Stankeven, I think, has been really exciting, and his breakout in Jackson, Blake, certainly two young players who we don't. Who we wouldn't typically kind of typecast based on their physical stature as clutch playoff guys. But I think Taylor Hall's been just as good a story here because of, you know, it certainly looked like he was on the downslope of his career, only to come up as big as really possible if Carolina wins. He's probably your cons my favorite right now.
- [13:23]
Mark Lazarus
Yeah, I mean, he was basically a throw in. In the Miko rant in saga, right? Chicago just wanted to get him off the books and he just wanted to go to a contender, so they basically tossed him in while Chicago retained a little bit of Renton salary. And here he is, like you said, a Conn Smythe contender. He's, you know, this is a guy who's had a phenomenal career, right? He's won an mvp. He dragged that devil's team into the playoffs all those years ago. He's always been capable of this. But, you know, those couple of years that he was in Chicago, it seemed like he kind of lost the will a little bit. Like especially late where he was so down. He was just so beaten down by the losing. By being on a team that was just. By being in your mid-30s, and when you're in your mid-30s on a team that is not trying to win, it's absolutely soul crushing. And I thought he was done. I thought he was cooked. He had these moments where he'd look like his old self. But it's amazing when you put these guys in a competitive situation and those competitive juices get going again, they can tap into something that's still there. I don't think that's a knock against him. I'm not saying he quit on the Blackhawks or anything like that, but I do think that if you're at that stage of career, it's really hard to get up for a game that you know you're going to lose, that you know your management is actively trying to lose. And when you get put in another position, you. You appreciate it that much more. He goes to Carolina and I've talked to him a few times since he's been there and he's just so rejuvenated, you know, spiritually, emotionally, mentally by it, that it brings out the best in you physically when, you know, all of a sudden you appreciate what you have because you lost it for a few years.
- [14:45]
Max Boldman
Anything in his game, like specifically as you've watched him, that you've been like, okay, this is like what makes Taylor Hall, Taylor Hall. And this is what's kind of come back after that dip.
- [14:55]
Chris Johnston
I don't know.
- [14:56]
Mark Lazarus
He's always been kind of a well rounded player, right? He's always been better defensively than he got credit for. He's always been a little more physical than he gets credit for. And he's just fit like a glove into this Carolina system, which isn't something I necessarily would have expected. He's not like a, you know, fly down the ice and go in on the forecheck kind of guy. He's not a layout for a shop block kind of guy, but he's good enough at everything that I feel like he's adapted really well and he can adapt. And when you give him good linemates, good young linemates that he's excited to play with, it just brings out the best in his all around game.
- [15:23]
Max Boldman
Yeah, should be a very exciting series game. One of that series will kick off Tuesday night. Summer always changes how I get dressed. I want pieces that feel lighter, more breathable. Things that are easy but still put together. That's why I keep coming back to Quint's. They focus on high quality essentials that feel and look amazing. Think breathable linen. Soft, organic cotton, well made basics, but without the luxury markup. It's that rare balance where everything feels elevated but still effortless. Quint's European linen pants and shirts are the perfect warm weather upgrade to add to your rotation. Starting at just $34. And if that feels low, yeah. Everything at Quint's is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. They work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen. So you're paying for quality, not brand markup. I've got one of their Polos. It's perfect for me in the summer where I want to look professional, but I gotta be comfortable. So to elevate your summer wardrobe, go to quince.com Athletic Hockey for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q U I-N C-E.com Athletic Hockey for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com athletichockey.
- [16:42]
Mark Lazarus
Seeking Pushing, Optimizing, Creating, Learning, Discovering At Aramco, we believe in harnessing the power of data to push the limits of what's possible. That's how we deliver reliable energy to millions across the the world. Aramco, an integrated energy and chemicals company. Learn more about us@aramco.com
- [17:12]
Jake Stauch
I'm Jake Stauch, co founder and CEO of Cervel. We built Cerval to automate the IT work that slows companies down. Onboarding, password resets, accessed applications. My laptop stopped working. While employees wait for help, their real work is put on hold. It desperately wants to automate this work. And that's why they need Serval. You just tell Serval what you want to automate in plain English and it's built. No drag and drop workflows, no expensive consultants. Employees get unblocked and IT teams go from drowning in tickets to building what actually matters. With Cerval, it becomes the AI engine powering the entire company. This is a new way to run it. We guarantee you'll automate 50% of all tickets. And we'll prove it to you in a free four week pilot. Go to serval.com acast that's ser vl.com acast.
- [18:10]
Max Boldman
All right, Dom, I wanted to ask you about a few things a few Few teams that have already now been eliminated and are now looking ahead to what comes next. Let's start with the Montreal Canadiens. You had a tweet that got a little traction online. Did you want to address your characterization of. Of the season and the end for the Montreal Canadiens in. In more than 160 characters here?
- [18:31]
Dom Lucician
I think it'd be funny if I just said no, but I. I will address the controversies in La Belle Provence.
- [18:41]
Mark Lazarus
I believe the word you used was fraudulent.
- [18:43]
Dom Lucician
I did use the word fraudulent. There is a infamous NBA Twitter tweet that says that every series is between two frauds. If you lose, you're a fraud, and if you win, it's fraudulent because you beat a fraud. So nothing matters. So Montreal, I thought was a good team going to the playoffs. I didn't think they were as good as their record indicated. I do believe they have a very bright future ahead. That was never in question when it came to the fraudulence. I just thought that they probably didn't deserve to win the first two series that they played. And there's nothing wrong with that. If you're a young team and you win two series that you maybe shouldn't have, that is fantastic experience. And then you get to a series against a contender like Carolina and you see what it really takes and you see how far away you actually are. That's all valuable. And I think that is going to serve Montreal well. They have one of the brightest futures in the league. Their cap sheet is incredible. I'm doing my annual work on best and worst contracts and I saw Lane. What I had for Lane Hudson and it was stupid. So he'll be the best contract this year, without question. But the way they went through those first two series, I thought they were great for the first five and a half games against Tam Bay and after that, I think Tampa exposed enough that they should have won that series in seven. They didn't. Montreal one. Good for them. Buffalo, similar story. Montreal is a better team in a few games. Buffalo wins eight. Three is the better team in game seven. Doesn't matter, baby. Montreal Magic and then Carolina. It just felt like they exposed all the red flags that were sort of prevalent in those deciding games against both those teams. And maybe Montreal didn't look fraudulent for the first five and a half games against Hambe and weren't fraudulent for the whole series. Same thing. It's Buffalo. But when a team gets beat down that badly, like, I think this is one of the most lopsided series we've ever seen. It is the worst XG a team has ever had in the analytics era. So since 2007 in a series, I think when it's at that level, you start thinking maybe there's some, some fraudulence here. Maybe the clock is striking midnight. And that's sort of the energy I was putting out there. And there are a lot of Habs fans who think it's probably because I'm from Toronto and obviously I revel in that fact. I'm not gonna shy away from that. And beliefs are humiliating in their own ways, of course. But if that performance happened to the Flyers, I would have said the same thing. I don't know. It didn't have anything to do with where I'm from. It's just that they look that bad and that is noteworthy.
- [21:50]
Mark Lazarus
Well, I look, I look at this as I, I feel like we're in this transition period right, where we only have a handful of real contenders. You have Carolina, probably the only actually quote unquote good team in the East. Tampa's lost in the first round year after year after year. Montreal still kind of working its way up. Ottawa's still working its way up. Philadelphia still working its way up. Buffalo still working its way up. And on the west you've got, you know, the three headed monster. In the Central though Minnesota and Dallas proved a little bit more flawed than I would have expected in Vegas. Out West, Anaheim still working its way up. San Jose has got a long way to go. Chicago's got light years to go. I feel like fraud isn't, is maybe a little harsh, but I do think that Montreal is not very good yet. Like, I feel like the Eastern Conference in particular, you have Carolina, a great team and then you've got like nine or 10. You know, I could see it. Teams like where they're getting there or they're working toward it or they could spring an upset or two. But I don't see any dominant teams. I don't see any well put together perfect lineup teams in the east outside of maybe Carolina. And even Carolina, as we spent the first 20 minutes talking about, has its flaws. So I feel like fraudulent seems a little bit harsh, but I kind of get like, I don't think any of those teams were going to be able to hang with Carolina in the end.
- [22:59]
Max Boldman
How did Philly make its way into that list? That was, that was crazy. You just dropped Philly in with all those.
- [23:05]
Mark Lazarus
I'm just saying I'm trying. We keep talking about all this new blood that we're getting in the NHL and yet Here we are with Carolina in Vegas. Not at all. New blood. Because the new blood's not ready yet. The new blood is still percolating, right? It's still. We're still working on it. That's all I'm saying.
- [23:17]
Dom Lucician
The one thing with Montreal in terms of their realness is I think, think they. They know how to win. I think we've seen that for their entire existence. They've had these magical runs before 2010 against Washington, I think 2014 against Boston, 2021 against redacted. They. They have that ability that I think a team like Ottawa doesn't have. Like Ottawa on paper, probably a better team than Montreal. They play the possession style that emulates Carolina well, but they are sort of getting that loser energy, that stink that Toronto has had for a decade, that Minnesota has had for a decade. There are certain teams that have it, certain teams that don't, and Montreal seems to have it. And that's. I think the biggest thing from this playoff run is whether or not they deserve to win the first two series or not or even just deserve to win those game Sevens. They found a way and I think that is a big deal for their rebuild is having that just win ability.
- [24:26]
Max Boldman
The attention here on where they go next, I think it's going to center on the center position and the number two center specifically.
- [24:31]
Dom Lucician
Is that the.
- [24:32]
Max Boldman
The only. Is that the missing piece? If they get a bolt on number two center, do you feel good about them, you know, elevating out of that, you know, cluster that Laz described? I kind of feel like they will elevate out of it and they will kind of be right there as, as the. Maybe it's the two, maybe it's the three, but one of the teams that can win the east next year, as long as they get a 2C and. But I don't know, is there any other areas that you look at and say this has to change in order for them to take the next step?
- [24:58]
Dom Lucician
Yeah, 2C is obviously big. I think their young wingers still have some growing to do, which is fine. I came into the playoffs a little worried about Caulfield size and I don't think that has gone away. So having Slepkovsky elevate above Caulfield, that'd be ideal. And not having Caulfield's number two, the bottom six, as good as the new hook line was, that's still surprising me. I, I'm not sure how sustainable that is going forward. So I if new hooks for real. I think he needs some more support around him, that would be the big thing. But if they get a 2C, it's all gravy from there, probably. Right. And they might even have one already in the system in Michael H. Yeah.
- [25:41]
Max Boldman
How about Colorado? I mean, for lads, you were just around Colorado. I mean, where did the Avalanche go from here? Because it was such a good season, I think we all expected a couple months ago that they would be the team we're talking about right now going into the Stanley Cup Final. They're not going to be there. I still think they had a really good year. We could talk about the injuries, but what is the move for Colorado now?
- [26:00]
Mark Lazarus
I don't know. I don't know what you do. Because last year when they lost to Dallas in game seven, when Miko ran in, scored that third period hat trick, Nathan McKinnon is like, we can't do this again. Something has to change. Nothing really all that much changed. They, you know, they added some nice pieces. Brett Kulak was a nice fit and, you know. But they still have two goalies who, despite winning the Jennings Trophy this year, are career journeymen. Mackenzie Blackwood has never really proven much, and Scott Wedgwood is not a number one goalie. You don't. You don't automatically. You don't magically become a number one goalie at age 34. So there's still holes to fill there. Like, you know, Brock Nelson, this is two straight playoff failures he's had. He was such a great regular season player. This year he's on. I think he's a Selkie finalist and deservedly so disappeared in the playoffs. He couldn't hit the net. And, you know, you could just chalk it up to Cale McCarr was hurt. And if you want to do that and run it back, I understand why this team, on paper is so good. The regular season was so good, but this is a few years in a row now where they should be in the Stanley Cup Final. And they didn't get out of the first round. They didn't get to the Stanley Cup Final. At some point, you run the risk of becoming one cup wonders. There's a lot of guys in this team in their early to mid-30s right now, and that window is not as these. They're signed long term. But Nazem Kadri was invisible in these playoffs. He was supposed to be like this great, you know, trade deadline acquisition. He signed for, like, six more years, and he's going to be like 40 when that contract runs up. So I'm not so sure that this team is as perfectly built as maybe we thought they were.
- [27:22]
Dom Lucician
I don't know about perfectly built, but we can't spend the first 20 minutes talking about how goalies aren't real and they don't matter and Carolina and Vegas are proving that and then start complaining about Scott, Scott Wedgwood, who is the thesis statement of goalies aren't real. I mean, if Kale Makar is healthy and McKinnon doesn't get injured halfway through a pivotal Game 3, they're probably fine. They were the better team for the first two and a half games or so. Game four, obviously they got wrecked. But when your team that good, you just have to keep getting chances and Carolina is a perfect example of that. A lot of people said they can't keep doing the same thing and sure, they added pieces and they kept getting better and Colorado might be able to do the same thing, but the best thing you can do in that situation is just give yourself as many chances as possible. And I think Colorado is going to give themselves another great chance next year to get back to this point and hope for a different result.
- [28:25]
Mark Lazarus
I mean, it certainly helps that they won the cup in 2022. They don't have the, the burden that Carolina has been carrying all the years of just getting there. So that, that helps. But I mean, we see this team and this is a multiple cup team. This should be a team that's on top for a long time and they're missing some, some key, key cracks at that wind at that Apple.
- [28:41]
Max Boldman
A lot to look ahead to this offseason. We are going to go there right after this break with Chris Johnson, our NHL Insider. We'll be right back. Parlor to Francais Parley Italiano.
- [28:56]
Babbel Advertiser
If you've used Babbel, you would Babbel's conversation based technique teaches you useful words and phrases to get you speaking quickly about the things you actually talk about in the real world. With lessons handcrafted by over 200 language experts and voiced by real native speakers, Babbel is like having a private tutor in your pocket. Start speaking with Babbel today. Get up to 55% off your Babbel subscription right now at babbel.com acast spelled B-A B B E L.com acast rules and restrictions may apply.
- [29:31]
Jake Stauch
I'm Jake Stauch, co founder and CEO of Cervel. We built Serval to automate the IT work that slows companies down. Onboarding password resets, access to applications. My laptop stopped working. While employees wait for help, their real work is put on hold. It desperately wants to automate this work and that's why they need Serval. You just tell Serval what you want to automate in plain English and it's built. No drag and drop workflows, no expensive consultants. Employees get unblocked and IT teams go from drowning in tickets to building what actually matters. With Cerval, it becomes the AI engine powering the entire company. This is a new way to run it. We guarantee you'll automate 50% of all tickets and we'll prove it to you in a free four week pilot. Go to serval.comacast that's serval.comacast a better help ad.
- [30:27]
Chris Johnston
Hold on one second.
- [30:31]
Dom Lucician
I just need to.
- [30:37]
Chris Johnston
What if you had a room where no one interrupts, no notifications, no expectations, just space to talk with BetterHelp Therapy happens in a space that's yours. Visit betterhelp.com randompodcast for 10% off your first month of online therapy.
- [31:00]
Max Boldman
All right, we are back and we are joined now by NHL insider Chris Johnston and cj you had the first off season trade board come out last week. We will get to some of the names on that in a minute here. First of all, I guess my question is like who are we watching team wise that are going to be big players on this trade market? Because on a Baron free agent, you know, setups, Baron free agent market this year there's going to be a lot of teams that are left kind of wanting on July 1st.
- [31:26]
Chris Johnston
Yeah, I guess I look at the teams that didn't have much success last season, you know, the St. Louis Blues for example I believe up four names on the board and obviously had a lot of players in play as well at the trade deadline. And so there's some, some crossover there where they've had preliminary or even something beyond that, discussions on some of their players that I think can be picked back up. You know, they also happen to have a GM change. You know, the succession coming in with Alex Steen taking over and you know, maybe wanting to turn a bit of a fresh page there. The Maple Leafs coming off their season, obviously there's a lot of pressure for them to try to get back to a competitive window that's, that's probably going to mean trading a useful player or players off their roster in an effort to find maybe a better mix of of guys to do that. But really because of the free agent class being what it is, I can't rule out any team not wanting to make deals and this week is so important with the draft combine happening in Buffalo, obviously one half of that is teams meeting with all the prospective draft picks. But the second part is that's where a lot of this business really starts to pick up in terms of GMs and executives talking to each other and basically lining the, lining the world because they don't have much time. We get to the draft by the end of the month and obviously sometimes trades spill into July, but it doesn't usually go too deep into the summer. So we're really in that five week window now where there wouldn't be a GM out there that would tell you that they don't want their team to be better next year. And given the lack of at least high impact options at center, I mean really this free agent class has very little going on in terms of there's no one, I don't think that teams would see as a top six center available to be signed. I mean that, that business has to be done via trades.
- [33:10]
Max Boldman
And Vincent Trocheck's probably the biggest name on that position, or maybe not the biggest name, but the, the most imminent name. That, that's the name that at the, at the last trade deadline we were all watching, Rangers opted to kind of hold on to him. Do you think they'll be able to get more? Having done that? Like, is, is the market for Vincent Trocheck going to be enough?
- [33:29]
Chris Johnston
I think they will. I mean, look, it was a calculated bet at the time effectively because, you know, the teams that are making trades typically at the deadline to add players are those that feel they have a chance to go on a playoff run and potentially win a Stanley Cup. But you get to the summer and you bring in maybe a different class of teams willing to consider that type of move. And so, you know, I think what the Rangers ultimately decided, and remember he was scratched, I think for one game, maybe two games right before the deadline, you know, one of those roster related scratches. So it was close enough that they were at least protecting him in that manner just before, you know, March 8th. But you know, in, in this case, I just think there's a wider field for them to make those negotiations. And, and I, I heard Laz's sneeze there. I think the, the Minnesota Wild, our natural landing spot. I mean, look, the Montreal Canadiens, I would expect to be pretty aggressive to try to find a second line center. I'm not saying necessarily the fit is tro check, but you know, there's enough teams that even did have a modicum of success this spring, but didn't get to where they want to go to that probably going to be even more hungry to consider some bigger changes. And the other part of it is as well, when you're a buyer at the deadline, usually you just give up assets. You're adding something in. I think there's more of an opportunity for some of those teams to maybe trade someone else to do sort of a series of moves that are a little more complicated that you don't see happen at the deadline. Because obviously there's a lot of pressure there. Really, it's just I bought your thing for future assets. That's what 98% of the trades are in March.
- [34:54]
Mark Lazarus
So I've been screaming into the void for years that teams overrate their picks, overrate their prospects, and that we should see more NFL style draft pick trades. Guys teams trading into the top five, teams trading down from the top five. You know, the, the Bengals getting Dexter Lawrence for a number 10 pick, the Bears getting DJ Moore for a first round pick when they already had their quarterback. So it warmed my heart to see the Sharks number two pick and the Blackhawks number four pick on your board. Now is that a sign of things to come where that's going to become more common? Or is this just a unique situation where the Sharks and Hawks are a little farther down the road in their rebuilds and maybe aren't in that desperation for another top five pick situation where they're looking for a player who can help them right now? So which is this? Is this a harbinger of things to come or a one off?
- [35:39]
Chris Johnston
Well, I view it actually as both because the reason those two picks are in play to some degree is clearly because those organizations are trying to not be in the draft lottery in the future. They've already, you know, accumulated some high end prospects. They're, they're looking at what those picks might get them in terms of immediate help. But I do think that the flip side of it is true. If one or both of them or someone else ends up making one of those trades, it might, it might be more of a common occurrence in the NHL down the line. I think it's really hard to trade a top two pick. And this is why you have to be generally really bad team. So you have to waste a season and then you need a lot of luck in the lottery, right? I mean, the Vancouver Canucks were terrible this year. I mean they, they were way out of it. They had 30 second, wrapped up very early and they still fell to number three because they didn't win either of the two Draft lotteries. And so there's a real premium on a top two pick. Not saying a fourth overall pick that Chicago has is a bad thing. I mean, that's still, especially in this draft. It does seem like the experts like Corey Pradman, Scott Wheeler, they seem to think you're going to get a really good player there. But, you know, I can understand why teams typically are a little nervous, cautious to trade those picks because a lot has to go right and wrong at the same time for you to actually hold one, you know, But I have to think that free agency is a little bit dead in our league. I mean, maybe things will change in the next 10 years, but I think in the short term, even though there's a few players, say in 2027 and 2028, notable players that are, that could become Ufa, I don't expect any of them to, quite Frankly. I'm talking McDavid, Matthews, Quinn Hughes, I mean, go down the list, there's a lot of players in the car that are eligible, all to test UFA in the next few years. And so if that continues to be the trend, I mean, you're going to have to make trades, we're going to have to see more aggressive trades. And I think that includes dealing away from some of the top picks.
- [37:23]
Mark Lazarus
What do you think the value of, you know, like St. Louis with Jordan Cairo and the Ducks with Mason McTavish? I mean, you never want to sell low on a guy. Both guys are both coming off of difficult years, but if they were coming off good years, they wouldn't be on the trade block. So, like, what do you think the market is for, you know, for a young team like a San Jose that's trying to build up, Would they be interested in a guy like that and think they could kind of restart their careers with some of the talent they have?
- [37:47]
Chris Johnston
100%. And I think the value of those two players, Laz, are that they're both signed, you know, well into the future here. So if you're making that trade, I mean, you're adding them as a sort of a core player in your mind, you know, there's going to be no contractual issue, you know, on the horizon, you know, what their cap number is. There's a lot of certainty there. I mean, I guess with someone like McTavish, where there's maybe uncertainty is he still hasn't quite got to maybe what was projected for him when he was a third overall pick. And so there might be debate. I'm sure there is among scouts about where he's trending to and what kind of player he can be. But, you know, his contract's locked in. You know, he's just 23, and I think there's room to get better. And basically you have him under contract for most of his. Most of his 20s. So those guys have, I think, a lot of value because their age, their skill sets, and then the fact that there's. There's some degree of certainty, I guess, attached to their contractual situation.
- [38:35]
Max Boldman
Couple names that jumped out to me on the board were from the teams that you mentioned right off the top. St. Louis and Toronto, Matthew Nyes and Robert Thomas. And I get why every team in the league would be interested. I get why they would have a lot of value. I'm still not sure that, you know, given the ages for both guys, like, I'm not sure that I understand why St. Louis and Toronto would really be that interested in moving off of either of them.
- [38:55]
Chris Johnston
Yeah, I mean, I'll. I'll deal with them separately because I don't think they're exactly. The situations are the same. I mean, in Thomas's case, certainly St. Louis has had extensive trade talks with him in the past, with his name, I mean. And, you know, I just think the Blues are of the mind that they have underachieved as an organization, in their view, the last couple seasons. And if they traded him, I mean, obviously we're talking about a Hall being back. We just. We don't see a player that, that talented in this day and age in the league trade hands too often. And the fact he plays a premium position, one that basically every team feels they need more centerman, you know, you add it all together. I think he's there just because they're. They're looking perhaps for a fresh start and because he would get them a lot back in the trade. Now, I did bump him down. I don't have my board in front of me, but I know he was in the teens. I don't think he's the most likely blue to be dealt. I think Kyru's more likely to be moved, you know, as a winger in this, in this off season. But, I mean, certainly Thomas is. Can't be ruled out as a possibility. You know, Matthew Nye's. The simple fact is this. Every one of the Leaf's other top players has a no movement clause. And that has a real. That puts real brakes on what I think the Leafs can expect to get in return for them, because obviously they can, you know, basically maneuver to one team or say Maybe give you two or three teams, but you can't really take them to market in a meaningful way. Whereas Matthew Nys doesn't have that. Toronto can trade him to any of the other 31 clubs. You know, he's in a similar spot to Kyro and to Mason McTavish in that he's a young player, 23, and he signed for the next, I think, five or six years. So you know what you're getting on the other side of that transaction. And so for the Leafs, who, you know, their prospect base looks a little better because they won the number one overall pick. So they got a little bump there, but they don't really have a lot in the cupboard. I think for them as they look to try to get competitive, they have to at least consider knives. And honestly, I don't think it's likely, I would say that he'll be dealt, but you know, they certainly. It was a different GM at the time. Bradshaw Living was, was running the show at the trade deadline, but the Leafs quite aggressively talked with a couple teams about Nies, didn't get a return. That made sense. You know, I think it, it's only stands to reason that some of those teams are going to reach back out and see if there's something to be done there. Basically, they're doing it as a way they have one good player there. Toronto knows they're trying to get two good players. They're trying to turn one good player into two good players. I'm not sure if they can do it. I'm not sure if it's smart, but they're at least considering it.
- [41:13]
Mark Lazarus
On the flip side of, you know, some of these great young players under good contracts, you got like an Elias Pedersen who signed I think at 11.6 for the next six or seven years coming off just a dismal, horrible year. Is he tradable like he's on your board? Is anyone? I can't imagine Vancouver is going to eat so much salary for seven years. Is he someone that. Are there teams out there that are so desperate for talent that they would take on that contract? Given what he's done the last year
- [41:38]
Chris Johnston
or two to, I have no doubt that he's tradable and, and likely at full, full borb. Now the thing is, is if you're taking on that full contract, I don't think the Canucks can expect to get much back in return. And so if you're on their end of this arrangement, you have to be doing the internal calculus. Do we think he could have a Bounce back? Can he, can he get to being even an 85 point player? And maybe if that's the case, you know, maybe he's got more value down the road when he's not as distressed of an asset in terms of his performance as he is right now. I mean, this is one of the stranger ones I can remember, at least in the NHL's cap era. I mean, almost from the moment he signed that extension two years ago, like his production fell off a cliff. And we're not talking about a cold streak at this point. You're talking 100 plus games of data here where he went from being 100 point guy to like a 60 point guy almost immediately with the stroke of a pen. Now, I'm sure there's things going on behind the scenes. I'm sure there's perhaps physical things, it could be mental. I'm not sure exactly that anyone has a clear answer on why that happened, but that, you know, the facts are the facts and that has. That is what happened. The reason he's tradable is I think that there are teams that believe in a fresh start situation that they can get more out of them. You know, and I'll come back to the same, you know, point I'm just drumming here. There's just not a lot of ways to get centers. I mean, if you're trading for some of these guys, you might have to take some risks, right? You might have to make a calculated bet like this. I mean, there's been times it's paid off, right? If you look at how the Florida Panthers were built, you know, they traded for guys like Sam Bennett, even Sam Reinhardt, when, you know, their stock wasn't as high as it went once they got in Florida. And obviously it worked very well for them there. You know, I think sometimes, you know, we can't lose sight of the fact that teams making those trades, there's going to be maybe some risk attached to the initial decision because all the players that are sure things, they're not available, you're not going to find their names on the trade board right now.
- [43:22]
Max Boldman
Before we let you go, C.J. i just wanted to close with a much more serious news story here, but CL Claude Lemieux's family is going to donate his brain to the Boston University CTE Center. There was an emphasis in the release that no conclusion should be drawn regarding a diagnosis relating to that. But it feels like a pretty significant bit of news here following obviously the tragic news last week of his death.
- [43:43]
Chris Johnston
Absolutely. I mean, you're talking about the preeminent place for brain trauma to be studied in athletes. You know, 20 previous NHL players families have done similar, and 19 of those players were found to have suffered from CTE prior to their deaths. You know, I think it's a very courageous decision from the Lemieux family, especially given the circumstances around his death. I mean, this is still a shock that quite frankly, I think a lot of people in the hockey world haven't wrapped their own minds around. You know, it's only a week ago he was carrying the torch into the Bell center prior to an Eastern Conference final game. And obviously now we're talking about his brain being donated to the Boston University CTE Center. So, you know, to have to make that choice under these circumstances, I can't put myself possibly in their shoes, but I certainly commend them for it. You know, as they said, they want to hopefully get some more answers themselves, but also they hope this can be something that helps athletes moving forward, depending on what is or isn't found when they study Claude's brain. So, you know, really sorry and pass along my condolences, obviously to his family, to his clients. You know, Claude spent 16 years as a player agent, very close to a lot of his clients, including Frederick Anderson and Rasmus Sanderson, two players that are going to play in the Stanley cup final with some heavy hearts. So, you know, really don't have any good sense to make of it, but maybe something positive can come out of it based on what that research finds.
- [45:00]
Mark Lazarus
You know, the league and Gary Batman, for legal reasons as much as anything, have always denied a link between hockey and cte. This is probably the highest, assuming that, that they do find cte. This is probably the most prominent player we've had other players, but this is a name that everybody knew. And you wonder if this is what it's going to take to, to affect some change and get this league to start taking head shots a little more seriously. And the damage that's being done to these players because sticking their head in the sand and pretending it's not real, it's becoming more and more just unfeasible by the day.
- [45:31]
Chris Johnston
Well said.
- [45:32]
Max Boldman
All right. Claude Lemieux gone way too soon at age 60. We're going to close there. May he rest in peace. Par le tu francais, hablas espanol.
- [45:47]
Mark Lazarus
Par l'. Italiano.
- [45:49]
Babbel Advertiser
If you've used Babbel, you would. Babbel's conversation based technique teaches you useful words and phrases to get you speaking quickly about the things you actually talk about in the real world. With lessons handcrafted by over 200 language experts and voiced by real native speakers, Babbel is like having a private tutor in your pocket. Start speaking with Babbel today. Get up to 55% off your Babbel subscription right now at babbel.com acast spelled B A B-B-E-L.com acast rules and restrictions may apply.
- [46:24]
Dom Lucician
Grainger KNOWS when you're a procurement manager for an office park, you're not managing one building. You're managing all of them.
- [46:30]
Chris Johnston
And to stay ahead, you need to
- [46:32]
Dom Lucician
see through walls and around corners. Lights about to fit, fail filters ready to clog H Vac on its last leg. If you wait until something breaks, you're already behind. Count on Grainger for quality products, easy reordering, and 24. 7 support. Call 1-800-GRAINGER Click grainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done. Why have I asked my H Vac
- [46:55]
Chris Johnston
guy I found on Angie.com to change
- [46:57]
Dom Lucician
my grandpa's trachea tube?
- [46:59]
Mark Lazarus
Because I was so amazed by how quickly he replaced our air ducts, I knew I could trust him to change Pop Pop's tube while I was on vacation.
- [47:06]
Chris Johnston
Make it quick, young man.
- [47:09]
Mark Lazarus
Aw, see?
- [47:10]
Dom Lucician
Pop Pop trusts you. I think we should call a doctor.
- [47:15]
Mark Lazarus
Connecting homeowners with skilled pros for over 30 years. Angie the one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find pros for all your home projects@angie.com.