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- [00:00]
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- [00:25]
Ben Green
Green from the Athletic FC. The podcast you're about to listen to is brought to you by Hotels.com and as a Hotels.com member, you save up to 20% on hundreds of thousands of hotels and earn rewards on every single stay. Which means the trips you're taking now help pay for the ones you're already dreaming about. And unlike some other places, there are no blackout dates. So when you want to travel, your rewards are ready to go. So the next time you're planning a work trip or a getaway, make sure to book it at hotels.com and start earning rewards. Hotels.com it's all in the name.
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- [01:39]
Sean Gencelli
This is the athletic hockey show.
- [01:54]
Sean McIndoe
What up?
- [01:54]
Sean Gencelli
What up? It's the Athletic Hockey show for June 3, 2026. I'm Sean Gencelli. I'm here with Sean McIndu. We are rejoined by Frankie Corrado who I. What vehicle did they put you in to send you home? Did. Was it the, was it a. Like a Zamboni kayak combo? How did you get back to Kelowna?
- [02:16]
Frankie Corrado
No, we got the, we got the. Kubota gave us a ride back home in one of the tractors. It only took us five days, but we made it. Man, what a. What a time we were having out there. And I just gotta say, as gentile, you do a lot of traveling, so maybe this will resonate with you. Anyone who's listening who does a lot of traveling, no one prepares you for life after pantry. L A T, as I call it. Are you aware of the pantry at some of these hotels? It's a 24 hour room and it's stocked with coffee, water, chips, fruit, banana, bread. At around dinner Time they throw some like cheese wings stuff and I'm like, you go downstairs, you get home, you're like, well, I got to do it myself now. Where's the Pantry?
- [02:59]
Sean McIndoe
Where's my 3am banana bread?
- [03:01]
Frankie Corrado
That's right, man.
- [03:03]
Sean Gencelli
It's a combination of the pantry and then, and then of course the, the either like residents in Fairfield breakfast or if you're lucky enough to have concierge lounge access, which I do now because I'm a big wheel who's got a gazillion Marriott nights this year. You get little bites, you get whatever mushroom caps.
- [03:26]
Frankie Corrado
It sounds ridiculous.
- [03:29]
Sean Gencelli
Like bite sized microwave quiches. It's great. I've saved the company money by hitting
- [03:36]
Frankie Corrado
the pantry hard and hitting the life after pantry. It just hits different.
- [03:42]
Sean Gencelli
How many ice cream sandwiches did you eat?
- [03:44]
Frankie Corrado
Only one. I, I didn't get into the ice cream sandwiches. It's not my jam. More of a salty guy.
- [03:49]
Sean Gencelli
Interesting. Interesting. Yeah, we can, we can, we can discuss this later, folks. We have a hockey game to discuss. The Stanley cup final started last night. It was a 54 win for the Vegas Golden Knights. They obviously rallied to beat the Carolina Hurricanes. Vegas was down 2 nothing. They ended up getting a game winner from Tamash hurdle which 324 left. We're going to talk a lot about that. We're also going to talk about the Gary Bettman, Bill Daly state of the league address, which is always worth, you know, touching on in one way or another. We'll save that for segment two. But this was about the first game of that series. It's the seventh straight win for Vegas. It's the second loss the playoffs for Carolina. Sean McIndu, what is your top level takeaway coming out of that one again? 54 win for the Vegas Columbia Knights.
- [04:43]
Sean McIndoe
Takeaway number one. Great game. From an entertainment perspective, that was all sorts of fun. And look, I, I have seen a lot of, a lot of folks who were not excited for this series and I get there. There are reasons to dislike maybe either team, certainly one of them in particular. And I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about people who looked at this matchup and went, oh, I don't. This, this isn't a great, I thought it was a fantastic matchup. There's a ton of star power. There's a ton of, you know, all sorts of different, different angles to it. But we also know that both of these teams like to win 2:1 and like to kind of grind you into paste. And that's no surprise. That's that's 90% of teams these days, 90% of coaches. So I was a little bit concerned going in that even though it felt like the ingredients were there to make something really good, that we were just gonna get that kind of cautious, let's, let's, let's win a low scoring game, low event game. And we didn't get that. We got fireworks right off the bat. And I'm in, I'm in on this series. I, I, I love the matchup. And I think now I'm fully on board. This could, this has the potential we're one game in, but it has the potential to be a real classic.
- [06:11]
Frankie Corrado
It should be. And I guess if I take the, like the Carolina lens right now and we look at how that game went, all the conditions for Carolina to run away with that game were there. They score early, then they're up to nothing. The building's going crazy. It's hard to have to play from behind against that team with just how much pressure they put on you, how much they have the puck, how they're going to shoot you. But time and time again, I was getting flashbacks to Game 1 of the Montreal series where Jarvis scores, I believe, 33 seconds into Game 1, and then it's all Montreal from there. And after the two nothing lead in theater theory, you're like this Carolina, man, they're just going to do what they do and they're going to trample over these guys in Game 1, and Vegas is going to have to regroup into game two. And it, I, yeah, I just got, I got flashbacks of that game one against Montreal where Carolina got caught being way over aggressive. And I thought they did the same thing last night where up to nothing in that game. They're taking unnecessary risk and running out of position and leaving the front of the net open. I thought to myself, Rod's going to say the same thing he said after game one is just, I don't know what that was because that the conditions were there for Carolina to run away with that game. And they absolutely left the door open for Vegas and give Vegas credit because they, you know, they marched their way through.
- [07:37]
Sean Gencelli
One of the things Rod said after Game 1 against Montreal, that was like, we got to just trash it like that. That game was bad enough where there's nothing, there's not much to learn. You know, it was 11 or 12 just incredibly bad minutes by that team. We said we saw Jacob Slavin in that one. You know, just play as bad of a game is, is probably literally that he, that he can play at this point, at this point in his career, right. So I think that led against Montreal to, to Brenda Moore being like, oh, let's just whatever, we didn't play for 12 days, you know, uncharacteristic stuff happened. Let's, let's flush it and move on for the most part. And they, and they, and they did like, they bounced back from that. They look like themselves in game two. So that needs to be, you know, the asterisk that comes with any, any major criticism I guess of Carolina here is that they've had to adjust after game one and have. So we'll see what happens. My concern on their, on as it relates to their end of things though is that yes, we saw some of the over aggression and mental mistakes that we did in game one against Montreal. The stuff that led to five breakaways in the first round, in the, in the first period, blah, blah, that was there like that, that part of the game, that part of the game was there. Another element that was there, one that Montreal can't bring, is that they got out physical at points in that I think is, is a little bit more of a shock to the system for a team like the Carolina Hurricanes than, you know, having aggression lead lead to 10 belt chances by the other team. Like you expect that to a certain point if you're them, you don't expect it five times in a period. You know, you don't expect it after an initial goal necessarily. So that was a shock against Montreal. Their concern I think should be that the reason they lost this game was kind of two pronged. It was, it was the over aggression, it was the mental mistakes. But there were also stretches of that game where they couldn't generate zone time. And you know, we saw a degree of, you know, physical engagement by the Vegas Golden Knights that they haven't, that, that, that Carolina hasn't hasn't gotten from any of these opponents.
- [09:51]
Frankie Corrado
So the hits, like I don't, I don't look at the event summary at the end of the game and think that the hit total tells the whole story on the physicality and the battle level because it doesn't like it varies from arena to arena. But when you look at the hits last night, you're going to see Vegas 35 and Carolina 26. And sometimes it just means the other team had the puck more and the other team had to hit more. But in this case, like I think Vegas had the puck just as much as Carolina and they still out hit them. And you look at moments of that game and you're like, Vegas has an answer for the physical play. Like they're, they, they're a heavy team and they played heavy and that's something that Carolina really hasn't had to deal with to this point where you know, they just kind of, they just trampled their way into the cup final. So it's a different test for the Hurricanes this time around and it almost feels like it's going to be a dose of what Florida was giving Carolina for years that they had a hard time overcoming. Big, strong, heavy, can score a lot. You're getting the Panthers to.
- [10:57]
Sean McIndoe
All we know you want to hear if you're a Carolina fan is the ghosts of the Florida.
- [11:01]
Sean Gencelli
I don't think so. Being brought up here because it's, you know, what they've got is a team that can play him to a draw at 5 on 5. We saw it, we saw it happen in, in a lot of ways. Right. You can play them to a puck, possession, you know, shot, volume, drop. That's basically what happened last night in Vegas. Even though we didn't see the production from these guys last night necessarily. There's Mitch Marner, there's Jack Eichel, there's Mark Stone. Those are the trump cards. Whenever, if you're saying let's flip the coin zone time is going to be equal, expected goals at 5 on 5 are going to be equal. But one team has, you know, three, three players who are all world to varying degrees, right. And for as good as the Carolina Hurricanes are, they don't have that. And I think that's part of, you know, that was a major, major contributing factor especially, especially last year against the Florida Panthers because you look at 5 on 5 stats from that game outside of goals pretty close. And you look at, you look at the 5 on 5 stats from, from last game for Vegas outside of goals pretty close. And I think that needs to be the concern. Sean, you, you said it man. Like if, if there's a, if there's anything that Carolina fans shouldn't want to hear, it's the Florida Panthers getting brought up in this kind of context.
- [12:26]
Sean McIndoe
And, and the other thing that you don't want to hear if you're Carolina is, is you don't want to hear what you just said about Vegas having the truly elite players having the better all world guys up front. Obviously that's true to an extent, but you don't want to hear it because what you want and what you need in this series is for your top players to be playing at a level where at least it's not glaring how the discrepancy between, between the top players and I mean Vegas, Vegas didn't get much from those top guys last night, but Carolina, it's, it really, I mean, in a way it's a little simplistic, but we've been talking about for three rounds now with the Carolina Hurricanes about this second line and how they're really the first line because they're out producing and we're kind of waiting for the first line to get going and they've had their ups and downs. They certainly haven't been, been absent through the first three rounds. But we haven't seen them really grab a series for a couple of games in a row. We're running out of time now and it's, it's almost as simple as saying like if, if Carolina's first line looks like a Stanley cup champion worthy first line, they're in really good shape this series. And I don't feel like we got that last night yet. And the clock is ticking. It's got to happen pretty soon if this team's going to get there.
- [13:53]
Frankie Corrado
I find, I find like the first line versus like the rest of the team conversation always so fascinating. Right. Because we can, we can hedge this however way we want if we go back to Edmonton. The last two years, McDavid and Draisaitl, they were unbelievable, right? But they just didn't get enough from lower in the lineup at times. And then, you know, if you want to use the Toronto thing, it was like the big boys never showed up in big games. I think now we're looking at this series and we're saying, well, the depth guys are doing great or have been to this point. Now you need the top line going. It's almost like you can cherry pick every which way you want it to be. And if you look at last night like McNabb has three points, Theodore has three points and like that's not Eiko getting three points.
- [14:42]
Sean Gencelli
It was the, it was the first three point game of Braden McNabb's career and he's played a thousand, a thousand combined games in the regular season.
- [14:49]
Frankie Corrado
It's crazy and I don't know how you guys feel, but I feel like Eichel is like this far away. Absolutely, completely breaking through and just.
- [14:58]
Sean Gencelli
Am I saying that, am I saying that because I had him in the game winning goal poll in the press box last night? Yeah, yeah, that's, that's, that's part of the reason I'm saying it. But he was he was a fraction of, a fraction of an inch away.
- [15:08]
Frankie Corrado
So everyone buys, everyone will buy time. Like the other guys for Vegas are buying Eichel time. Just like Stankovin hall and Blake are buying time for Carolina. But at some point time runs out.
- [15:19]
Sean Gencelli
They bought and they have bought that line a lot of time. And that's, and that's what I wrote this morning now or for this morning. That was what I wrote post game was about Carolina's first line. Like I get it. They've liked their game at various points for various reasons in this playoff. Ryan, right. We've heard it from Rod it in a couple different forms. He said like, you know, they played, they basically played the Stutz the line to a draw that was, you know, good enough. And then in the second round it was like they're getting chances. You know, we feel like it's going to happen. Okay. In the third round against Montreal, there were some goals. We saw Ajo get one. We saw, we saw Seves get one. It felt, felt like something was starting to pivot there. Last night was a step backwards for them because at some point and Frankie, this is just to echo what you said and, and both you guys, you run out of time and, and Rod has said this in various ways over the last six weeks. Like those guys are playing okay. I don't dislike their game. They are going to have to get on the score sheet at some point. Some point is now like we don't need. This is no weird past the point of talking about process and chances and you know, waiting on percentages and all that stuff. They got his score. They got a score in, in I, I, they weren't particularly close in that game. The one time they did their best shift of the game was in the third period. And it was a sequence that just ironically, I think it was ironic, led to hurdles, ultimate game winning goal. That was the best that line looked. You had Svetchikov doing work along the boards. He crushes somebody. The puck pops out to Ajo. Ajo sets up Jarvis. Jarvis comes within a millimeter of putting everything into it. Hart makes a really nice glove save, you know, threat over and then after that face off hurdle ends up scoring, right? That was the best they looked all night. And it, you know, just kind of coincidentally led to, led to the decisive goal. They're going to need more of that, right? We can't be talking about tying Vegas in high danger chances when those guys are on the ice and all that. Blah, blah, blah, blah blah. They, they need to produce Points or Carolina isn't going to win because they need to win four out of six games. Now that's like that. That's like we need to do a reset there. Like this isn't the second round anymore. Like. Like we're not. We're not. And they're not up 20 on. On the Philadelphia Flyers. Like, they're down a game in the Stanley Cup Finals. They got a score.
- [18:03]
Frankie Corrado
Well, and. And I think to. To your point about, like, process over results, if you look at what Montreal did in this playoffs, it's basically about results because there were a lot of times where the process wasn't exactly squeaky clean. But at the end of the night, whether it was their goalie who stood on their head when they got nine shots or, you know, some. Someone on a third or fourth line, like Doc or Bullduke or Texier scored on a chance and it was like that was the difference for them. Didn't always look pretty, but they got it done and they got to the Eastern Conference final. Now for Carolina, like, the process has been excellent because they've steamrolled everyone and they deserve to be where they are. But you just need that. You need that, like, shot with conviction or you just need that balance or whatever it is. But you got to. You have to just find a way to produce. Now. It's not about expected goals or court or like, it's just. It's just not. You just got to find a way no matter what that. For that top line.
- [18:59]
Sean McIndoe
Are we at all concerned the first line in Carolina didn't had no points in a game that had featured nine goals. Neither did the second line. Are we at all concerned about that at all that, you know, because that's been the superpower for the Hurricanes and that's what has got them here, is that, you know, you ultimately, you look at a team and you say your best line has to produce the first line. Sorry to Rod Bridden Moore, who doesn't like numbers, but the first line hasn't been producing, but that's okay because the best line stepped up and. And was covering for them. And we just kind of flipped it and we went, okay, now Taylor hall is the first line. They didn't get anything last night either. So, I mean, on the one hand, hey, we always say you need the death guys. And if you can score four goals with your top two lines getting blank, that's not bad. But it's also not sustainable for winning, as you say, shot four out of the next six.
- [19:58]
Sean Gencelli
Now, I think to me and that, that kind of leads into what I think the biggest missed opportunity from that game is for Carolina. I, I'm, I'm, I'm not, I'm not like inclined just yet to say, like, are they getting, do they need to get or is something gone wrong with, with Stankovan and Holland and Blake? Like, I, I, I'm not quite there. But to me, that game more than anything is about wasting what they got from Nikolai Ehlers. We, we get that incredible. What, what, what was it? 25 seconds into the game, by, by, by him. 25 seconds scores another one. These are, those are chances that he's gotten consistently in the playoffs. Like his ability to like, skip his, his first step. Like, he goes from dead stop the third gear as fast as anybody I've seen in, in this postseason. I think we saw that on both those first period goals. Like, to have that dude playing on your third line the way he is is just, it's, it's such an advantage and it's such a, it's an outlier, honestly, to have a guy with that skill set playing with dudes like Stalin. Martinook, right, they signed him to give them the kind of game that he gave them last night. Like, that's why you bring in Nikolai Ehlers. When you're, when you're first line, second line, whatever. When your absolute top layer of forwards in Carolina, you know, isn't making it happen for whatever reason, you bring him in to be the shot in the arm, you know, B12 injection to drag you to a win, you know, that maybe you don't deserve. And he did as much as he could last night to make that happen in it and it, and it didn't work. So I think that to me is the, the, not like the, not the number one concern. There's larger macro concerns than that. But that felt like the Nikolai Ehlers game. That felt like the one he was going to, he would, he was going to win to some degree on his own and they couldn't get it done.
- [22:06]
Frankie Corrado
Yeah, I don't get, I don't get overly concerned about one game for Carolina's second line because they've done so much good up until now that the law of averages are just going to tell you they can't score every night. The best lines in the league can't do it every single night in the playoffs. So if this was their one night that it didn't happen for, for them, so be it. They lost the game. They have to move on. But if it happens two nights in a row or two games in a row. Then you absolutely look at it and say, has the magic pixie dust wore off here and is it, is it now becoming an issue? But they've done, they've, you know, in essence bought time for everyone. They have been the ones that have done it. So I will get concerned or slightly more concerned with one more game played if they're not on the score sheet. And I think lost in all this. We've talked about Carolina quite a bit. Yeah, like we got to give Vegas a lot of credit. As much as Carolina was over aggressive and whatever like torts brings them over to the bench during the TV timeout. He has the whole pow wow. He wasn't losing his mind. He, he, he was just kind of talking to them, it seemed like anyways, and they responded. And it wasn't like they had to have this like monumental shift in the game. It was just like a willingness to go shift by shift and stay, stick with your game plan and not make mistakes and continue to do the same things over, put the pucks into good spots, try and get it to the front of the net. Like all the simple cliche stuff you talk about, they did it. So like that is a, I mean that's a sign of a team that, that gets like they're just veteran guys that get it and they understand how to, how to weather those, those moments. And I thought he did a good job kind of handling that for the team.
- [23:54]
Sean Gencelli
Let's take a break. We're going to jump. We're going to jump back, talk about Freddie Anderson, maybe hit on some of the topics that Gary and Bill. We got the Gary and Bill show pre game last night on some of that too. Stick around.
- [24:09]
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- [25:19]
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- [25:43]
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- [26:09]
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- [26:18]
Sean Gencelli
All right, we're back, boys. Somehow, maybe this was deliberate on it on our end. We didn't talk really. We didn't talk much about either goaltender in that first. In that first segment. Let's. I don't think either of them were particularly good, but Carter Hart had the big save at the big time. Obviously we mentioned that to save on Jarvis that, you know, precluded the, you know, the game winner by hurdle. So he came up big at the. At the right time. I didn't think either he or Freddie Anderson were particularly great in that game.
- [26:55]
Frankie Corrado
Best save of the night was Mitch Marner.
- [26:58]
Sean McIndoe
Accidentally.
- [27:00]
Frankie Corrado
Okay, hold on. Poll question. Accidentally or on purpose? Who cares? Come on. What is it?
- [27:06]
Sean McIndoe
I mean, it's, it's. It's probably a. Who cares? Because you get it done. You get it done. But he's trying to jump over the puck.
- [27:13]
Sean Gencelli
Are you?
- [27:13]
Sean McIndoe
And it hits him. Are you an overdrive today?
- [27:15]
Sean Gencelli
Is, Is that why we're bringing this up?
- [27:17]
Frankie Corrado
No, I'm not.
- [27:18]
Sean Gencelli
Is it dry run?
- [27:19]
Frankie Corrado
I have.
- [27:20]
Sean McIndoe
Frankie. What's. What's the defenseman's view on this on a block shot is just. They don't ask how. They ask how many or if you try to flamingo it and it still hits you that that counts, you get credit.
- [27:32]
Frankie Corrado
It's the exact same thing as a golf scorecard. A four is a four. And there's no. There's no questions as to how it happened. And there's no pictures and. And at the end of the night, it's going to say block shot. M. Marner.
- [27:46]
Sean Gencelli
He just, he knew where it was going. Like, you don't. Like, if you're. If it's. You know, you're watching Star wars, right? And it's. And it's Luke with the lightsaber dodging. Dodging the blast from like, the training module. Like, you, You. You can't. You can't get some. Some people just have that sense about them, right? Well know where the puck's gonna go. Even. Even if it does that, even if
- [28:06]
Sean McIndoe
nobody else gets it. That clutch Gene, the clutch dgb.
- [28:09]
Sean Gencelli
I was.
- [28:10]
Frankie Corrado
I was getting flashbacks to. To Toronto versus Boston in the playoffs all those years ago. I think it was the first time they went up against Boston. He had that big block shot on purpose and then like, followed up face first. And we're like, that guy's a winner. We're like, that's our guy championship here.
- [28:28]
Sean McIndoe
That is our guy right there.
- [28:30]
Frankie Corrado
Yeah. Now he's gonna do it with another team and he's still blocking shots.
- [28:34]
Sean Gencelli
I love big block shots on purpose, you know?
- [28:37]
Sean McIndoe
Yeah. Aren't they.
- [28:38]
Sean Gencelli
I love. I love really deliberately and definitely not by accident block crucial shots at crucial time.
- [28:44]
Sean McIndoe
All you need to say about that, that Mitch Marner block shot task failed successfully. That's all you need right there. Got it done.
- [28:54]
Frankie Corrado
Hey, but how about the reaction? Like, all his teammates, they went right over to him right after. Like, that was. That was good stuff. And maybe, maybe when you get. What do you do if you're him, though?
- [29:04]
Sean Gencelli
You're like, yeah, I did. I did a great job.
- [29:07]
Frankie Corrado
100.
- [29:08]
Sean McIndoe
We know what, we know what happens if. If Mitch doesn't feel appreciated. So everybody get over there. Let's go.
- [29:13]
Frankie Corrado
I'll make a prediction.
- [29:15]
Sean McIndoe
We got to do.
- [29:15]
Frankie Corrado
I'm going to make a prediction. There's going to be a moment in this series where he's going to be in that similar situation. Who knows, you know, what the score is going to be, the clock and he's going to lay out and he's going to block it. And we're all going to say that one he meant to do because he got the reaction from his teammates. They loved it so much and they gave him so much props. He's like, I'll do it again.
- [29:35]
Sean McIndoe
I think we have to ask the question, is it time to. To go ahead and give Mitch Marner the 2027 Con Smythe to go with this year's that I think he already has.
- [29:47]
Sean Gencelli
I. Honest to God, I, I think there's a world where, you know, Vegas wins the cup and we're trying to decide who to vote for and that somehow turns into like a pivot. There are going to be voters out there that are, that are swayed by that sequence in one way or the other. Someone can say, yeah, big, big block shot. He did it on purpose. And then someone's going to say, well, I don't know if I can give it to him because it looked like he did that by accident.
- [30:14]
Frankie Corrado
Well, let's, let's put it this way, man. Let's say however many games it goes, five, six, seven, whatever, someone out there will put like a Mitch Marner timeline chain together for the consummate and say in game one, he had the block shot and the assistant. In game two, he did this. In game three, he did that. And it's like those were all monumental on route to the Stanley Cup.
- [30:37]
Sean Gencelli
Maybe it'll be me.
- [30:38]
Frankie Corrado
It could be you.
- [30:40]
Sean Gencelli
Guess what? I don't even.
- [30:42]
Frankie Corrado
I don't.
- [30:43]
Sean Gencelli
I don't even care. I don't even. I think. I think I'm allowed to say this. I. I have, I have a vote. So sweet. I can't. I, I can't wait to have that debate with myself with 10 minutes left in the deciding game.
- [30:56]
Sean McIndoe
I think, Sean, if you have a vote, I feel like that means all three of us have a vote.
- [31:01]
Frankie Corrado
Really, we could sway you.
- [31:03]
Sean McIndoe
The show Group Chat, I think has a vote now. Producer Jeff will weigh in.
- [31:07]
Sean Gencelli
I won't even cite you guys. The three of you. McIntuke, Corrado, producer Jeff. I'm open to ideas because I anticipate this being a little bit difficult.
- [31:22]
Frankie Corrado
How big of a hit, how big of a hit did Freddie Anderson's chances?
- [31:25]
Sean Gencelli
I think, I think, I think he could. I think if they come back and win in six or whatever, I don't think he's going to get it.
- [31:34]
Frankie Corrado
Yeah, it was my, my thing with Freddie is he's played so well up until now. Granted, wasn't overly tested against Montreal, which I think the conditions are perfect for Freddie right now. Right. Like they were giving up 15, 18 shots a game. Freddie just had to make the right amount of saves and let in one or two and his team had a really Good chance of winning. And I was thinking about this. You know, with Freddie, there's always been injuries, right? Like, he. He had time off. He had to go do some, like, you know, stem cell stuff. Like, it's pretty interesting stuff, like when you're. When you're down that path of. Of injury, rehabilitation. But I was thinking, what if everything's just aligned for Freddie? The team's playing well, the team doesn't give up a ton. He might be, like, healthy, so he's not thinking about a knee or anything that may have ailed him in the past. And then last night's game, I was like, well, maybe it's just the same thing as game one against Montreal and he'll bounce back, but he has to have the bounce back or else. I think it leaves a lot of doubt from Carolina's point of view that, you know, he can. He can be the goalie. He was through the first, essentially 13 games of playoffs.
- [32:50]
Sean Gencelli
Yeah, I. He was great in the first two rounds. I thought he was good enough against Montreal. I thought there were moments in that series, and I don't want to be like, you know, the guy watching from the press box, acting like he's seeing things that the average person can't, because that's. That's not my stance ever. But I thought there were moments against the Canadiens where I found myself saying, like, if they can just. If they can just put a little bit more volume on him, this could get really interesting. It felt like he had a squeaker in him. It felt like there were. There were. There were going to be opportunities if Montreal could find them and seize them, for them to produce a bit more, and it didn't happen, you know, and also, like, you know, he did. He did come up with big saves down the stretch. I'm not taking away from what Freddie did in that. In that. In that series. That's not my intent. But there were stretches of play, there were periods mixed in there where you're like, okay, if they can just generate some kind of sustained push on this guy, one or two are going to go in, and then things are going to get super interesting, right? And I. And I think that's the difference between Montreal and Vegas. We've talked about this a couple times in a couple different ways, but it bears repeating that Vegas, on most nights, like, you're not looking at a team that's. That's going to finish with 12 shots, 14 shots go. 14 minutes in the middle, middle of the game without officially logging one on net. Like, that's not going to happen. So I think for the amount of zone time and the amount of chances that Vegas is imminently more capable of scratching out than Montreal, I think it could. I think it could cause problems. I'm not saying we're going to see Brandon Bussey in Game 2 or anything like that, but you know that the way Freddie looked in that game, there had been a little bit of a build to it, and I wasn't overly surprised to see it.
- [34:50]
Sean McIndoe
I. I also didn't think Carter Hart was very good last night. In fact, I think the goals. If you just look at the goals that were allowed, Carter Hart got beat clean multiple times last night. And in. In this modern era, if you get beat clean, yeah, it's a bad goal. And. And he did. He did not look good. But the difference being, obviously, a. His team won. So, you know, we. We kind of move on from the things that didn't go as well as they could have. And, and as you said, he made the two big saves. I would argue he made the save on Jarvis and the. The breakaway save when it was 2:1. Was it. Is it Stank Coven or.
- [35:31]
Sean Gencelli
It was Stankovan?
- [35:32]
Sean McIndoe
Yeah, you know, that was one where as he's coming in, you're going, this could be it right here. This is, you know, Carolina jumps up, they're two nothing place going crazy. Vegas gets back into it, and if you come right back and score, hey, who knows how the game plays out? But that. That felt like a big one. So, you know, I. You're right. Like, with Freddy, it's not. I didn't see any goals last night that I went, that's a bad goal. But it just felt like he was fighting it just a bit on almost everything, to the point where you do kind of as I'm. I'm sure on the Vegas bench, they're. They're looking at each other going, we can get to this guy. We got. Because there are. There are going to be nights where you're. You would never necessarily say it out loud, but you're looking around going, we're in real tough to beat this guy because he's locked in. This guy is. And it wasn't that.
- [36:25]
Sean Gencelli
Brynn and Moore's talked about this, too. He's. He's used it obviously in context of Freddy being good, but it applies to when Freddy's not at his best. Also, he's. Brinden. Moore says, like, from a coaching standpoint, you can't really tell whether he's playing well or playing poorly. And he meant it as a compliment and it meant it as like, kind of is also partially a testament to his mindset. Right. Like you keep like his body language and stuff. Like you don't necessarily see it tell. But also I think that's kind of what makes him tough to evaluate when he's playing badly because you're like, okay, that didn't look materially different than it did when he was, you know, shutting down the Philadelphia Flyers, I don't think. But also, they just hung five on him. So what do we, what do we make out of it? And I don't know enough about goaltending to, to be, to be able to parse it out. I'll be, I'll be straight up there. But what's clear is that, you know, they're not I there. I don't see any five goal games by the Vegas Golden Knights in the future that the Carolina Hurricanes are going to win. So something, something's going to, something's going to need to change. Whether it's, whether it's on the skater side, whether Freddy just takes it up a notch, whatever. Something needs to be different than it was last night.
- [37:44]
Frankie Corrado
It's, it's completely stating the obvious that Freddie has to have a bounce back game, which clearly he does. But there's nothing in hockey that says you always have to revert back to what people know you as. Right. Like if people are waiting for the bubble to pop on Freddie Anderson, I would say, well, why does it have to pop? Why can't this year just be different for Freddie? Why can't it be the year where everything came together for him and he was healthy and he played well and they won a championship. Like, you don't always just have to be what you're known as. And I think, you know, bigger picture, it kind of this whole thing with, you know, Freddie Anderson being the goalie of the Carolina Hurricanes and this team trying to get over the hump and get to this point and now try and win a Stanley Cup. I think it just goes to show you how hard it is to actually like acquire a really good goalie in the NHL. Because if you just looked at it on paper and you said Carolina's an excellent team, they give up nothing. You know, they're hard to play against. Imagine they had like top two, three goalie in the NHL, like, how could you ever beat that team? But it's hard to get a top two, three goalie in the NHL. So they keep coming back to.
- [38:55]
Sean Gencelli
Because there's only two or three of them.
- [38:57]
Frankie Corrado
Right? Exactly. And they're not available for you. And, you know, Vegas on the other side had to do something very bold and something that was going to make a lot of people upset. And they had to bring in Carter Hart because if they went with, you know, Aiden Hill or Akira Schmidt, they would not be playing here right now. They would have been. They would have lost already. So I think it's just. I don't know, it's just. It's just something when you look at the temperature of the league, you're like, Carolina has to go with Freddy because it's hard to get an upgrade or you're going to go with a lateral move. And sometimes the devil you know is better than the devil you don't.
- [39:32]
Sean Gencelli
And I think too, Frankie, just to like, circle back on something you said before. It doesn't matter what any of these players have done before. And that sounds like a cliche, right? The only thing that matters are the games that are in front of them. The past is the past. Their resumes are their resumes. It doesn't matter that Freddie, you know, we kind of know what to expect from him for good or for ill. It comes down to the next six games or the next five games or the next three games. Like, you can. You can change your reputation. You can have fun with small sample sizes. Like, that's. That's the heartbreaking part of these series for franchises and fan bases and the exciting part of it for, I think, reporters and for guys and for guys like us, is that not. We're at the point now where nothing really nothing that happened matters all that much. We can. We can use it to inform the way we talk about the next games and whatever. But if Mark Jankowski goes on a goal binge and has and has five in the next. In the next two in. In, you know, kick starts. Carolina, to be. To. To. To get this done. Like, no one's going to care that Mark Jankowski is on his fifth NHL team and was almost out of the league a couple years ago. And then it would be a completely shocking result because it will have happened like the hap. When it happens, you don't ask why. And I. And I think we're about to be reminded of that, like, over and over and over again in this one. All right, guys, let's. Frankie, we're going to let you go. Well, me and McIntyre will kick the. We'll kick the Bill and Gary show to the third segment. What does TSN have you doing this week? Are you. Are you back to driving cars or are you still piloting? Strange. Strange.
- [41:25]
Frankie Corrado
You know what? I am home. I'm home and I'm loving it. And I don't have to go back on the road until September. So it was good time. Kelowna Memorial Cup. Congrats to the Kitchener Rangers. I said it like, that's the best team I've seen in three years of doing that tournament. I thought they were awesome. And I think their head coach, his phone is going to ring soon and it's going to be an NHL team calling.
- [41:48]
Sean Gencelli
Which one?
- [41:48]
Frankie Corrado
The first. The first question is going to be what's your hair routine? What's your beard routine? And how do I get that? And then they can get into talking hockey.
- [42:00]
Sean Gencelli
Whatever. Whatever product he's using. I need some.
- [42:04]
Frankie Corrado
That's. That guy is studly. Studly. Dude, man.
- [42:08]
Sean Gencelli
Take it easy, man. We'll talk to you next week.
- [42:10]
Frankie Corrado
See you, boys.
- [42:18]
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- [43:10]
Taylor from Total Soccer Show
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- [43:54]
Sean Gencelli
all right, there goes Frankie. Sean McIndoe. I'd like to tell you what I've learned.
- [43:58]
Discover Advertiser
What have we learned, Sean?
- [44:01]
Sean Gencelli
Yesterday at the 2026 edition of the Gary Bettman and Bill Daly show, the state of the league address, which always comes before game one of the Stanley cup finals. I hadn't done one of these in a while, so it was really one of my favorite days on the calendar. Something I really, I really used to look forward to every single year. It was good to be back in the saddle again. We learned, and I'm going to quote, slash paraphrase, Commissioner Bettman here, that reports of his demise had been greatly exaggerated. That was a line. That was a line he dropped. We started the afternoon maybe not anticipating, but wondering, slash thinking that potentially we could get the outline of Gary Bettman's retirement plan like that. We were going to hear some specific outline of, of this, of the succession plan as commissioner of the National Hockey League. And we didn't get it. He's sick. He's sticking around. He said that, you know, of course there's discussions about a succession plan and it's, you know, there's, it seems like they're having discussions about having those discussions, but I did. Nothing is concrete. And for a very, very short window of time yesterday, you know, there was legitimate curiosity over whether, you know, he was gonna, he was gonna give something a little bit more substantive than that. And he didn't. Happy birthday, by the way. He was 74 years old yesterday. We're like, we're gonna, we're, we're gonna keep getting him for at least a few more years.
- [45:42]
Sean McIndoe
It was the equivalent, the off ice equivalent of watching your team score a huge goal and jumping out of your seat and cheering and then realizing that they're going to the little iPads and doing a review. And Gary comes out and says, upon
- [45:59]
Sean Gencelli
further review, Sebastian ajo was offside 37 seconds ago.
- [46:04]
Sean McIndoe
Yep, no goal. There was, there was a, there was a missed face off violation in a game in November. So we have to start the season all over again from back then. Yeah, it's, it's a bummer. The thing that's fascinating to me about this, it's a bummer. Everybody talks about succession plans. Like we have a commissioner who has had his second in command for like 20 years. If there's a succession plan and it's not Bill Daly, then is it really a succession plan? Like, succession implies that there's something internal, like somebody's ready to come in as opposed to the other plan, which is I'm Gary Bettman, eventually I'm going to retire and then we're going to do a search and we're going to hire someone from, you know, some other league or wherever, wherever in the business world we get somebody. Is there even succession that's going to happen or is it going to just be a replacement, which is not necessarily the same thing.
- [47:08]
Sean Gencelli
Yeah, I. Succession is the term that's used when you're talking about like monarchies. Right? Like that's the line. That's the line of succession where you know concretely that if, you know, King Charles bites it, like William's next in line. I wonder if it's that concrete for the NHL. Like is, is it, is it just that simple that, you know, daily takes and that's in. That's palace intrigue that has been part of, you know, the thought process in media circles or whatever, increasingly so for the, for the last couple years. Like is it, is it daily? Is it someone else? And is Bettman going to live, want that? Does he want it? Is. Is Gary going to live forever and be on the job for the same amount of time? Like you gotta, you gotta consider that that's a possibility, I think. But yeah, the upshot for me coming out of that session yesterday is that it sounds like we're still a couple years away from really truly navigating that whole situation, at least in any more concrete way than we have already.
- [48:16]
Sean McIndoe
What a tease. What a bummer.
- [48:18]
Sean Gencelli
It's close.
- [48:19]
Sean McIndoe
I also learned something from Gary Bettman that is the All Star weekend is back after, you know, a little bit of international play. Interrupting that. And the format is interesting. They are trying something reasonably new. We're Gonna get a five team round robin. Five teams each with 11 players representing Canada, U. S, Sweden, Finland and miscellaneous. Can't wait to see the jerseys which will include, which. Which will include Russia, which is. Is newsworthy on. On some level. And they're gonna play a 10 game round robin tournament which presumably the games are going to be very, very short. But that's, that's going to be kind of rapid fire, you know. Go, go, go, go. Three on three. And I, I guess I, you know, let's see. I'm not necessarily. I mean, we can. We all see what's. What the idea is here, right, which is you. The All Star games for the past couple of decades have been terrible because the players don't care. There's no effort. Hockey is one of those sports that when it is played at half speed, it is unwatchable. And it's, it's just, it's been, it's been an absolutely terrible showcase. And maybe. How do you make the players care? Well, they've tried throwing money at them. They've tried different things. They've tried doing drafts and all of that. What if, what if we do it internationally? Let's get.
- [50:05]
Sean Gencelli
It seems like they care about that. Yeah, let's try that.
- [50:08]
Sean McIndoe
They sure do. When it, when it matters, whether they will care about an exhibition this way. And look, I don't think anyone's expecting that, that the Canada U.S. game that's going to kick off this tournament is going to start with three fights in nine seconds. We probably won't get quite that level of intensity, but maybe it'll be better and, and maybe it'll be the sort of thing where. Because there's so many games and I think they're very smart, Mike. When I looked at the schedule, my first thought was, oh, they're doing Canada U.S. first. You would think they would save that to the. No, they're doing it right by putting that first because that is your most intense rivalry in theory. So if it, if it doesn't, if that doesn't work, then you can turn the TV off because the, the next few hours is going to be awful. But if it does, it kind of raises the bar for everyone else. Look, I, I have been extremely critical of the entertainment value of the All Star Game over the years, so I don't mind them trying something new. It can't get any worse than what it's been, so give it a shot. I, I don't know. Is it going to be too rapid fire? Is it gonna, you know, is, is that gonna work? I don't know. Five teams is interesting. Congratulations to everybody in the NHL. You're all going to be an All Star next year. It's so good for you. And especially like, we're gonna have 10 goalies at the All Star Game.
- [51:28]
Sean Gencelli
Yeah.
- [51:29]
Sean McIndoe
That's basically in a league where there's only like 20 guys who even are their team starter. It's. You got a 50. 50 shot at being at being an All Star, so that'll, that'll screw with the record book, but I'm, I'm curious to see if it works. I don't. I'm not convinced that it will, but
- [51:45]
Sean Gencelli
I, I'm not either.
- [51:47]
Sean McIndoe
They're trying something.
- [51:49]
Sean Gencelli
I'm not convinced either. But I also was one of the guys that thought, that thought Four nations wasn't going to work. Like, I was like, this is, I was like, this is off brand Olympics. These guys are going to be going at 82% and everyone's going to hate it. And I was wrong very clearly, very clearly and self evidently and quickly I was proven wrong on that one. So I'm hesitant to go all in and say that. Yeah, this international, you know, competition that involves NHL players is going to be a dud because I'm 0 for 1 on that also. How good is team miscellaneous gonna be?
- [52:22]
Sean McIndoe
We're gonna have really.
- [52:23]
Sean Gencelli
We're gonna have dry Seidle, Posternach, Shusterkin, I guess, or whatever and someone like that. And then, and then Kucherov, it's gonna be dry, dry Saddle Pasternock and the Russians, basically. Like, that's going to be interesting.
- [52:36]
Frankie Corrado
So, yeah, I'm really, really good.
- [52:39]
Sean Gencelli
I'm willing, I'm willing. They have, they have, they have my attention. Like, I'm not gonna just, I'm not gonna just go on vacation during All Star Weekend this year like I have in the past.
- [52:50]
Sean McIndoe
And I also think that the, the, the, the other piece was the skills competition, which is going to be 25 and under. Okay. I mean, gimmicky, but the skills competition is the ultimate gimmick.
- [53:01]
Sean Gencelli
So.
- [53:02]
Sean McIndoe
Yeah, that, that's all right. And that's a way to. What I hope they do. What I take this whole idea of every team needs to be represented in the All Star Game and turn it into every team is represented at All Star Weekend.
- [53:20]
Sean Gencelli
Yeah, that's a good idea.
- [53:21]
Sean McIndoe
Some team out there. If the Vancouver Canucks have got nobody and they're in dead last, go ahead, pick a, Pick a younger player.
- [53:29]
Sean Gencelli
Throw in, put, you know, who, whoever. Like, yeah, find, find. Find someone to put in the prospect.
- [53:35]
Sean McIndoe
Exactly. Marco Rossi can go and be in the, in the skills competition and then we don't have to use up a spot because, you know, let's. If you really want to make it an international thing and people care, let's load up those teams as best we can. Let's make them look as much.
- [53:51]
Sean Gencelli
Find something to do with Z. Boom. And the. In the hardest shot. Skills, whatever.
- [53:56]
Sean McIndoe
Off he goes. Eve. And then, you know, check that, check that box, right? Pick, Pick whatever team. You know, Calgary great. Dustin Wolf, come on down. And that's. That'll. That'll do it. Thank you very much, Calgary Flames. And, and, and off you go. And that, that could work too. Again, it's, you know, is it going to be great? I don't think it is. Is it Going to be better than what we have. It almost would have to be. So, and I say that a little hesitantly because sometimes the NHL tries new things and they do not work emphatically. But I, I, I'm much happier with the announcement we got yesterday than if Gary Bettman had sat up there and said, everything's working great. We're going to keep it exactly the same as it is, like he did for the playoff format.
- [54:43]
Sean Gencelli
Well, everything is going great across the board, by the way. I don't know if you watch the session. It's, it's incredible. It's incredible how perfectly everything is going there.
- [54:50]
Sean McIndoe
Everyone's happy. Everyone's, it's, it's awesome. Cool.
- [54:53]
Sean Gencelli
Nothing to see here.
- [54:55]
Sean McIndoe
Everybody is happy. Other than Bruce Cassidy, he's the only, the only turd in the pretty nails
- [55:01]
Sean Gencelli
nails stuff from Daly on that too. I think he's like a contract. He said it's the contract he signed. There are guys out there who didn't sign contracts like that. So. Sorry, buddy. Talk to, talk to you after the finals are over. That, that's still, I still think this, that once this is resolved in one way or another, the, the series, I mean, than Cassidy walks. I think, I think, I think, I think the signs are pointing that direction.
- [55:30]
Sean McIndoe
But, and, and the good news is, as we, the, the other thing that we learned over the last couple days is you can go from having no permission to talk to another team's GM to hiring that GM really quickly.
- [55:43]
Sean Gencelli
It's funny how that works.
- [55:45]
Sean McIndoe
Yeah. Apparently one good interview, you just, you're, you're all done. So that was that. That's, you know, this stuff can happen very quickly. And so when Bruce Cassidy winds up with Edmonton, I mean, with his next team, that could all come together pretty quickly.
- [56:01]
Sean Gencelli
Are you writing today? You've wrote yesterday.
- [56:04]
Sean McIndoe
I've got a piece ready to go, but they're, they're holding it off. Apparently there was some sort of game last night or whatever that they think is more important than my contest. Update on how the playoff contest.
- [56:17]
Sean Gencelli
I'd rather read that. I'd rather read that than someone saying like, duh, Carolina's best players need to be good. Duh. Which is what I wrote.
- [56:25]
Sean McIndoe
Given that, what would you estimate the failure rate was on the conduct? How many, how many wrong answers do you think we got?
- [56:36]
Sean Gencelli
How many, how many questions were on the one?
- [56:38]
Sean McIndoe
This, this is the playoff.
- [56:39]
Sean Gencelli
Oh, this is, this is that one. Oh, God.
- [56:41]
Sean McIndoe
Just name as many teams as you want. Percentage order of how many, how many games they'll they'll win
- [56:49]
Sean Gencelli
93.
- [56:51]
Sean McIndoe
Oh, you are, you are way too optimistic. It's. It was closer to 97 wrong already. And this is with. With the playoffs not even being over yet. Yeah. We're down to two entries that are still alive.
- [57:04]
Sean Gencelli
Holy cow.
- [57:05]
Sean McIndoe
Wondering if you're wondering if it's your entry. It's not.
- [57:07]
Sean Gencelli
It isn't.
- [57:10]
Sean McIndoe
But yeah. So you'll find that out probably tomorrow. I think we're gonna run that one.
- [57:15]
Sean Gencelli
Love it. That's a pre game reading, I think, because there is, there is a game, there's game two on Thursday here in Raleigh, North Carolina. So enjoy that, folks. Thank you, Sean McIndoo. Thank you, Frankie Corrado and again, we appreciate you. We love you for listening to this. This is the Athletic Hockey Show. Max Boltmanshina, Goldman and Drance got the next show on Friday morning. This is breaking news to me. I'm. I'm going to be unable to record because I'm with. With Haley because I'm traveling. So they brought in Durance, Max and Shayna. That is must listen stuff. Durance is one of a kind. If you, if you haven't experienced the Drance audio, are they.
- [57:59]
Sean McIndoe
How many people are they replacing you with? Man, is this like the, this is the Leafs with Mitch Marner. They're just going to replace you in the aggregate.
- [58:06]
Sean Gencelli
Who's, who's, who's Michelle here? It's Boltman. Matthias Michelli. Boltman
- [58:15]
Sean McIndoe
on Friday.
- [58:16]
Sean Gencelli
Tune in. Thanks for listening, enjoy the game and take care.
- [58:25]
Discover Advertiser
It's smart to always have a few financial goals and a really smart one. You can set earning cash back on what you buy every day. And with Discover, you can get this. Discover automatically matches all the cash back you've earned at the end of your first year. Seriously, all of it. And we trust you to make smart decisions. After all, you listen to this show. See terms@discover.com credit card.
- [58:49]
ADT Advertiser
Think of a toilet as just an everyday object. Your entire perspective shifts the moment you experience a Kohler Smart toilet. Design changes everything, transforming a basic routine into something extraordinary. With standout aesthetics and intuitive controls. These are functional works of art. Stunning design that never sacrifices performance. Enjoy customizable features for elevated comfort and convenience. It's more than a fixture. It's a cleaner routine and a more refined space. Experience the difference of Kohler Smart toilets. Find more@kohler.com Grainger knows.
- [59:26]
Clio Advertiser
When you're a procurement manager for an office park, you're not managing one building, you're managing all of them. And to stay ahead, you need to see through walls and around corners. Lights about to fail. Filters ready to clog H Vac on its last leg. If you wait until something breaks, you're already behind. Count on Grainger for quality products, easy reordering and 24. 7 support. Call 1-800-GRAINGER click grainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done.