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- [00:01]
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- [01:02]
Aura Security Advertiser
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- [02:26]
Jeremy Rutherford
This is the Athletic Hockey show.
- [02:41]
Sean Gentili
What up? What up? Welcome to the Athletic Hockey Show. This is the summer edition. I am Sean Gentili with another edition of how to Fix. It's our summer series where we check in on some of the more, let's call them underachieving teams in the NHL. These are the guys who are desperately trying to get back in the playoff conversation. 10 teams being profiled overall Today we're taking a closer look at the St. Louis Blues with our man Jeremy Rutherford before we get to Junior, quick recap on what St. Louis did last season. 86 points, fifth place in the Central Division. That means they missed the playoffs by four points, which was a step back from 24, 25. Made the postseason, lost to Winnipeg in the first round. Of course, overall, this is a team that's only advanced past the first round once since they won the Stanley cup back in 2019, which is frankly the sort of thing that suggests that some sort of reset is necessary in the Blues got down that road over the last couple months. We'll talk about the biggest on ice move later, which is of course sending Jordan Kyrie to the Capitals. But Junior, let's look a little, little bigger picture to start here with the front office shift. Alex Steen became the general manager on July 1. Doug Armstrong moves upstairs. He's the president of Hockey Ops now. Has the dynamic between those two gone according to plan thus far from. From your chair?
- [04:02]
Jeremy Rutherford
Yeah, I think so. And this isn't, I don't think something that's common throughout the NHL year after year after year is something that's referred to as like a GM in waiting or a coach in waiting. The Blues actually did this back in 2008-2010. Doug Armstrong was the GM in waiting for team years behind Larry Plo. Got a real good feel for the organization. Came in in 2010 officially, Sean, and has been on a 16 year run that just came to an end. So I'd say that was pretty successful with a Stanley Cup. At one point he brought in a coach in waiting, Mike Yo. To take over for Ken Hitchcock. And that did not go as planned. And, and so Doug Armstrong, he really felt that this is the best way to go. The organization needed a fresh voice. He felt like Alexander Steen would be that guy. And so two years ago there was a press conference saying that he would take over in the summer of 2026. We had that press conference a couple of weeks ago. They've now gone through a free agency, a draft and a couple of trades here that we'll talk about. And as far as it going according to plan, from the outside, it looks like it has. If you ask them about what goes on inside the walls, they said that it's been a real good communication between the two of them, the transfer kind of of power. The one thing that I think everybody needs to keep in mind is that Doug Armstrong is still the president of hockey operations. He's held that dual title along with general manager for a long time. He's now going to slide into that president role strictly. And the decisions to be made are Alexander Steen's, although he'll obviously have dug there to confer with. So they've made some moves, they've done some things, you know, on the outside looks like it's gone pretty smoothly and we'll see as Alexander steam progresses in this role how it goes.
- [05:51]
Sean Gentili
Well, let's get into it. We'll start right off the bat with the defense. Not a ton of moves there. They added Brandon Carlo. He said, I, we don't need to relitigate the trade that landed him in Toronto. Obviously that's one that the Maple Leafs would like back. But when they flip into St. Louis, I think there's something alike from the Blues end of things. Right. He's a pretty decent all defense depth option. He's a right shot, he's at the right price, which is, you know, a little bit less than 3 1/2 million dollars for one more year. I, I know defensive depth was some kind of issue for them last year, especially after. But we, the return that they got on Justin Falk was terrific. But you know, you do obviously subtract something pretty significant from the mix there. What do you anticipate Brandon Carlo adding to the mix and why was he someone that, you know, they targeted and obviously gave up three or rather two third round picks to acquire?
- [06:45]
Jeremy Rutherford
First of all, I love your phrase of relitigate that Carlo.
- [06:48]
Sean Gentili
This isn't a Maple Leafs podcast, man. I've talked about, talked about that one enough.
- [06:53]
Jeremy Rutherford
Yeah, it was funny in St. Louis. A lot of people were saying we only got this guy for two thirds. Look what Toronto had to give up. And I said, yeah, but did you follow the backlash after they gave that package up for Brandon Carlos?
- [07:06]
Sean Gentili
I don't know what the, I don't know what the equivalent is you have to send back, you know, divorce Ski or someone like that. I'm not really sure. I'll take, I'll take Brandon Carlo for two thirds though.
- [07:15]
Jeremy Rutherford
Yeah, yeah, definitely. And so I think he fills a need for sure. And I always say, keep in mind, keep in mind that Brandon Carlo played for Jim Montgomery in Boston. So there's a relationship there. The Blues have a situation where they have a first round draft pick from a couple years ago, Adam Yurichek, who could be ready soon if you don't add a Brandon Carlo. Adam Jurocheck at a young age might be four forced into a third pairing role out of training camp. Now you bring in a veteran with experience and guess what? If your Check comes in and, and looks pretty good. He goes down to Springfield and gets more seasoning. And Brandon Carlo under contract as you mentioned, for one more year. Maybe he holds the fort down for one year and you put your check in a position to succeed. Meanwhile, the Blues have a couple other young players on defense. Logan May, you, the player that they got in the trade from Montreal for Zach Bolduc. And also you have Theo Linstein, a first round draft pick from a couple years ago who finished the season with the Blues last season, looked really good alongside Colton Perako. So you're talking about two to three guys potentially who are under that 25, 24 age range. And so that's why Carlo made sense for them, bringing in some veteran stability, a guy that the coach is familiar with and a guy who can buy the time for those young guys.
- [08:33]
Sean Gentili
Let's, let's. You mentioned Mayu. Let's talk about him because I did want to ask about him specifically. Pretty disastrous start to the season for him. He was, he was brutal and on, you know, statistically at least, and certainly looked, you know, like a guy who wasn't, who maybe was not ready for big minutes on a relevant NHL team. But he, he looked, he looked better down the stretch. He had 10 points in his last 24 games. It's five on five. Blues won his minutes 21:14. That's after the Olympic break. What's your sense of the shape of his season and what does St. Louis think that they have in him moving forward?
- [09:09]
Jeremy Rutherford
Yeah, a couple things, Sean. First of all, he had only played eight NHL games in Montreal. So you're getting a player who, yeah, he's a first round draft pick of a few years, maybe needs a change of scenery. Of course he had the off ice situation, but he came in and guess what, it was his ninth NHL game of his life. And in hindsight, the Blues admitted that they made a mistake playing him with another young guy. So go back two years. You had a Ryan Suter playing with a Tyler tucker and that third pair. So you know, Suter alone, 1500 games. Now you put a Tucker who's got a couple hundred games alongside a Mayu who's got eight. That's your third pair. That did not put Mayu in a position to succeed. So he needed to go down to the American Hockey League again. Obviously some fans are up in arms. Why'd you trade for this guy? But towards the middle of the year, end of the year, after he got back from the American Hockey League, he was bumped up to the top Pair with, with Philip Broberg and gosh, if you have to be paired with somebody, let it be Philip Broberg and, and played 20 minutes a game down the stretch and just didn't make the mistakes that we saw in the first half of the year. So we don't know in St. Louis if Logan Mayhew is going to be back in that top pair with Philip Robert. Maybe he's in the third pair with Brandon Carlo, you know, although, you know, those are two righties, so they wouldn't be together. But point being, where is he going to be in the lineup? We don't know yet. But I think that everybody is a lot more comfortable with what he's capable of. Having watched him the last stretch of games.
- [10:37]
Sean Gentili
You brought up Broberg obviously another, that's a major step forward for him last season. He just gets better year over year it seems like. Do you have a sense and is there a sense overall that he's on track to become, you know, a legit number one, a franchise defenseman, you know, sort of player? Because the, the six year, I should mention too, his contracts immediately looks great. Six years, 8 million AV. Sign that in, you know, midway through last season. That looks a whole lot better now than it did, than it did six months ago. Right. But that combined with his, you know, with his really strong 5 on 5 performance, what's the next step for him? And just overall, what's the, what's the vibe surrounding him as it relates to his standing, you know, within the organization? Because he seems like he's a franchise, franchise type of guy or, or at least could be, you know, in pretty short order.
- [11:30]
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- [11:31]
Jeremy Rutherford
The best way to answer the question is when the Blues had to offer the dollar amount that they did to get him on the offer sheet. So it was 4.58 million or what have you, you know, saying oh, you're overpaying Philip Broberg to get them, you know, 4.858 looks like chump change now.
- [11:47]
Sean Gentili
Oh yeah.
- [11:47]
Jeremy Rutherford
Compared to what Philip Broberg is going to be worth in today's NHL and moving forward. So the 8 million AAV on the six year deal is a tremendous contract for the St. Louis Blues. His progression in the past two years into being, you know, a shutdown guy with some offense and a potential number one is legitimate. And just talking to some people around the league, talk to Chris Pronger about it, really likes him. The question is can he become a true number one if he's not putting up 50, 60 points and, and he's helping on the power play, and that's a legitimate question. The only thing is, the Blues had guys to run their power play, and they were really reliant on Broberg to shut down the other team. So they didn't use him on the power play until late in the season. They moved him up there. They moved Cam Fowler out. Philip Broberg got some power play time. I think he's going to see power play time from day one this year, and then it's up to him to kind of, kind of ascend into that role. But I think he's got number one potential. But certainly the offense is going to have to come.
- [12:48]
Sean Gentili
Well, we know, you know, you and I have both talked to Pronger about what makes a number one defenseman. Right. And I tend to. I tend to defer to him on that one. I think that. I think that his sense of that is better than anybody's and point production is a big part of it. Right. Like that's. That's a box that you need to check. So has Broberg done that yet? You know, not necessarily, but there's reason to believe that he can. And I think a lot of it starts with, you know, his, his position on the power play. So that is interesting to hear that, you know, the, the plan, it sounds like, is to. Is to have him with a top unit, maybe straight out the gate, which is something we didn't. We didn't see from him last year.
- [13:26]
The Athletic Promo Announcer
Yeah.
- [13:26]
Jeremy Rutherford
And one thing I want to point out is if you just watch two Blues games a year and if you just look at the stats, you're going to say, okay, well, Broberg perhaps doesn't have the offensive ability that's going to allow him to get there. But if you watch 75 Blues games or you talk to people, his skating level is elite. He loves to join the rush. He can cut to the net and create a scoring chance as well as any, you know, top defending defenseman that I've seen. And I think it really will come for him. It's just going to be continuing to grow into that role and then having good players around him. Keep in mind, you know, we're talking about playing with a Logan Mayhew last year. So he's had a lot of young Blues players around him, and as the Blues get older and they get more experience, you know, that's going to help Philip Robert.
- [14:14]
Sean Gentili
Yeah, we'll just throw 15 or 20 more points on the board for him just by virtue of being on the top power play. Right. And then if that happens, seriously, like Then, then, you know, everything lines up in a more, in a more direct way. I wanted to ask about Colton Pareco. I, I think it's still, you know, credit to him. It's impossible to ask about the Blues defense and not bring him up. He's a player who I think some people may have, you know, expected to age a little bit differently than he has. He had another strong season last year. His defensive numbers were really good. What's your sense of the space he occupies for them? You know, just I, I guess this season specifically, but more generally, I mean he's a, he's a big part of, you know, he's, he's obviously they had that, the trade that never was. So he's, he seems like he's there, he's there for the long haul and I think there's worse, worse fates if you're the St. Louis Blues than have Colton Perk on in the mix, you know, even at his relatively advanced age. And I say this as a, as a freshly 40 year old man. Colton Preco is not that old, but you know, it's, it's, it's okay. We can, we can, we, we can talk about them in those terms.
- [15:20]
Jeremy Rutherford
Yeah, I think the Blues just had some realistic conversations internally about these guys that are in their early 30s. Are they going to be able to help us in a few years when our younger guys grow into their roles on the team and we feel like we're going to be a contender whether it's two, three, four years from now? You know, what is a 36 year old Colton Preco gonna look at that at that point? And if he, if we deem that he's not going to be in a position to help us at that point, you know, why wouldn't they talk to Buffalo? Why wouldn't they try to, you know, pull a top prospect defenseman out of the Sabers organization and a first round pick and have that player grow with these younger players. And so you can't blame them for trying to make the move. But that's what no trade clauses are for for the players. And I was not surprised at all that Colt Draco invoked his no trade clause. He's tied to St. Louis in so many ways. He's been here his entire career. He's getting ready to climb into the top one or two all time games played in the Blues organization. And so anyway, it looks like he's here to stay at least for the foreseeable future. And you know, I just told you about a guy, Theo Linstein a first round pick from a couple years who came up and looked good in a 20 game sample size and guess who he was playing with. He was playing with Colton Perako. So you know, just Colton Perco being here from that perspective is going to help the young Blues along. So is he going to be here in two, three, four years? I don't know. But I do know that with him invoking that no trade, the Blues seem to recollect their thoughts on what they're going to do with him. And, and he's here for now.
- [17:05]
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- [17:05]
Sean Gentili
And Perco signed to a deal that pays him six and a half annually through the 2030 season. So there's, you know, you mentioned what does he look like when he's 36 or 37. That's the age he's going to be when that deal runs out. So that, that's interesting. That's worth watching. But yeah, I think the season last year from it from the outside seemed like it was pretty good. We played a played a bunch of international hockey too over the last, over the last year, year or two as well. That counts for something.
- [17:32]
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- [18:45]
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- [19:17]
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- [20:26]
Sean Gentili
time to move on to the forwards. This is the area of attention for St. Louis in this past summer. First big move we mentioned this at the top, sending Jordan Kyr to the Washington capitals for Connor McMichael, a first rounder and center prospect. Milton Gastron JR. We know Kyru had a down season offensively at least relative to where he was the previous few. But statistically it seemed like he figured it out a bit as a 200 foot player. Is that accurate? You're a guy who watches this team every, every day and every night. You know, you look at Kyrie's number and you say, okay, it seems like maybe a light bulb went off as it relates to his 200 foot, you know, responsibility. A is that accurate and B, just more generally big picture. Why is he no longer a St. Louis Blue?
- [21:19]
Jeremy Rutherford
Yeah, all good questions, all fair questions. The easiest way I can answer it is that yes, he became a better defensive player with which says a lot he was a minus 38 several years ago and a plus 23 the following year. So he's definitely applied himself more defensively. Is he a guy that you trust? You know, for sure late in games? No, he's. He's just not that guy. But, but he is better defensively, his offense, you know, three seasons of 30 plus goals, he's sniffing the 40 goal mark. You feel like he's got that potential and then bam, 18 goals. And so if you're going to be a core member of this team and you're a Blues team that wants to be competitive, but yet bring these younger players along, you need a Jordan Kyro to step up and be a go to player for you. And he was not that guy last year. It doesn't mean that he, he's not that guy for sure and he can't be in 20, 26, 27. But at some point the Blues had to change this core a little bit. When I say core, I'm talking about Jordan Kyro, Robert Thomas, Pavel Buchnevich, who you're going to get a lot of complaints about his contract as well. Colton Perako, Jordan Bennington. And so they elected to make the move that made the most sense. Jordan Kyro. And it's a guy who you would hope have some value around the league and they found out that he did. And so you got a guy who's a potential 40 goal guy and, and you get Connor McMichael in a first back, you know, does it look like a great trade for the Blues? You know, maybe not, but I think it's a situation where a change of scenery helps Kyru. It also helps the Blues. It honestly does. And then they bring in a workhorse like McMichael, a first round pick and a prospect. I think you just cut bait, you move on and you realize, hey, if he goes and has success in Washington, good for him. But in terms of being a guy that we could put out and you know, count on in a go to situation or count on defensively, I just don't know that that was going to happen here in St. Louis.
- [23:22]
Sean Gentili
You mentioned McMichael. We should talk about him. Breakout season two seasons ago with Washington. Scores 26 goals. Playing mainly on the wing. Shifts back to center primarily for Washington. Last year sees his production dip a bit. Goes down to 14 goals and just was a generally less effective player. It's center on the third line than he was as a, as more of a, you know, second line winger. Where does he slot in for St. Louis? Because I think that is an interesting thought. It's a gu. We've seen play, you know, in, in a handful of different spots up and down the lineup over the last few years. How do they view him?
- [23:56]
Jeremy Rutherford
Yeah, so chronologically, that trade for McMichael was made before the McTavish. So when the Blues spoke of McMichael, they talked about potential at center and that he can play center. And so you kind of looked at a situation where you got Robert Thomas as your top line center and then you might have a divorce. Gannon McMichael in the middle six. Then the Blues went out and acquired Mason McTavish. Now he's penciled in as your second line center. Daborski likely your third line center, which pushes McMichael to the wing. I think at least we'll find out when we get to training camp. But I think that's where he starts out. And your top line is going to be Dylan Holloway, Robert Thomas and Jimmy Snugrud. One of the best lines in hockey on the stretch, of course, the team was playing, you know, didn't really have anything to lose. So you like to see them, you know, when, when there's a lot of competition, see that line and what they can do. But, you know, the second line I could see with a McMichael on the left and a McTavish in the middle and maybe Buch Nevic on the right side. So I think that's the potential. You know, you always have Jake Neighbors who, they like to have him on the third line, but he can come up in a pinch. And I just think it's a situation where McMichael likely going into the season looks like he's a guy who's going to play on your wing thing.
- [25:09]
Sean Gentili
You mentioned Kyru, certainly you mentioned the McTavish trade. I think those two, those do go hand in hand to some extent. The return on the Kyru trade, I would imagine made it easier for them to acquire McTavis from Anaheim. They send the first round pick back to the Ducks as part of that part of that deal ahead of the draft, the arc of the early part of McTavish's career. We've discussed it pretty heavily here and elsewhere, so we don't need to belabor the point, but we will reset it a little bit. We will reset it a little bit in a one season span. He went from what looked like a long term down the middle piece for Anaheim, signed a fresh contract ahead of last season, blah, blah, blah, to a third line winger in the playoffs. We've talked about his skating issues, we've talked about his defensive issues. You said St. Louis views him as a second line center. And I'm wondering what they see in this player, based on the last couple years, that makes them believe that that's a slot he can fill for them long term.
- [26:06]
Jeremy Rutherford
Yeah, I think in trying to do their due diligence on Mason McTavish, they came to the conclusion that this is still a player who's just 23 years old and he was a number three overall draft pick a few years ago. The Blues did bring in Greg Cronin, formerly of the Anaheim Ducks, who was Mason McTavish's coach in Anaheim. Cronin then went to the Iowa Wild. The Blues have brought him in as an assistant on Jim Montgomery's staff. They talked to Cronin and here's a guy with a reputation of being, you know, hard on those young players in Anaheim. And the feedback that they got from Greg Cronin was that he likes the potential upside still of, of a McTavish. And I went ahead and made a phone call to Craig Johnson, former Anaheim's assistant coach, and, and talked to him and he said, look, this is a player who always wanted to learn. He's on the ice last, always working on his shot. He said, are there some deficiencies? Yes, the foot speed is a real thing, he said, but it's about change of speed that you need to work on. You know, in the NHL, it's more that, he said, I've seen guys who, maybe they're not fast, but they have a good change of pace, change of speed that can make them effective and they can get to spots and, and be successful. So that's what he wants to see from him. And then Mace McTavish himself, after being a healthy scratch in Anaheim under Quinnville, he said that, look, I need to work on my default defensive responsibility too, and be better in that area. And in listening to Craig Johnson, he said, look, he's got the big body, he's got the stick, he's got the tools to be good defensively. So it's not like he's lacking in those areas. It's just a situation where, you know, he needs to work on some things and apply himself. So. So the Blues, as they continue to Try to add players 23, 24, 25, this was a player who's available. There's not a lot of guys out there that are available that you can actually acquire, and the Blues have tried to do that with Holloway And Broberg via the offer sheet and now do it with a player who perhaps Anaheim felt like needed a change of scenery and they do that with Mason McTavish. It's not a slam dunk that he's going to be successful here in St. Louis, but they feel like the things that they Learned about Mason McTavish were worth taking a chance on in the,
- [28:09]
Sean Gentili
the return also has to be considered there too. Like we're not talking about them trading the 6 overall pick or the, or the, you know this is a, this is a mid first round pick, you know, to roll the dice on a player who not long ago was, was regarded pretty highly. And J.R. i think you said it, you know, these guys are, these guys are not easy to get. We've got plenty of examples league wide. You know, if you're talking about a center who's a player who's, you know, 2C capable, which it certainly seems like McTavish is, those guys are in short supply and when they are available, the, the price tag tends to be kind of, kind of wild on them. So when the primary return is, you know, a mid first round pick, I think that's a deal. If you're St. Louis, you make, you make 100 times out of 100, right?
- [28:52]
Jeremy Rutherford
Yeah, 15 and 29. And if you look at the Blues situation, they had three first round picks in 2023 and they got divorce Stenberg and Theo Linstein. When I say that, I'm not saying it's a bad thing to have four first round draft picks in 2026, but when you look at the Blues cupboard from the past few years, they've had among if not the most first round picks, if not the most draft picks in the league. It's right up there. And so at some point you have to turn those into real players can help you. And the Blues are able to do that. And I like what the Blues did Sean with. They had four first round picks and they used two of them on McTavish. So they bring in a player who slides in as potential, you know, to see next year. And then they drafted at number 11, Tyne and Lawrence, an 18 year old center who could be a center of
- [29:43]
Sean Gentili
the future, who was it was at the top of the draft discussion not that long ago too. I know his draft season, you know, didn't necessarily go according to plan, but he was a guy who, you know, six months ago or nine months ago did not seem like he was going to go 11th overall. Right. He's a very well regarded young man.
- [29:59]
Jeremy Rutherford
Yeah. And another center at 16 because they had the 16th pick overall to Dejeuner. So they come away with two centers at the draft and they come away with Mason McTavish who they're going to plug into center. So I think they tried to, as they continue to try to be competitive and try to, you know, stock for the future. I thought it was a good first round overall with what they did with those picks.
- [30:22]
Sean Gentili
You only need so many 18 or 19 year old players, right. Like you want to, you want to go out and find the Mason McDavish's of the world who were 23 or 24 and hopefully about to take off. So yeah, that, that deal made, it made a whole bunch of sense. We've talked about Robert Thomas and bits and pieces over the last few minutes. We'll go specific on him now and we'll phrase it kind of the way we talked about Cairo. Robert Thomas is still a St. Louis Blue. Why is that? Is it as simple as the fact that he was, you know, a point per game player for the final 64 games this season and that his five on five numbers were good? Like does he start the season in St. Louis? It certainly seems like he will. And why is he, you know, still in this place after having the trade rumors you know, surround him in a similar way that they did to, to Cairo at various points over the last year?
- [31:10]
Jeremy Rutherford
Yeah, if you heard that beep a few minutes ago, that was Robert Thomas, Texas. But I think, I think he's sticking around because we're planning to meet up for a story.
- [31:18]
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- [31:19]
Jeremy Rutherford
Coming back. So, but, but no, he's going to be here. I think what happened was as the Blues tried to look at the tradable assets they had and what would teams around the league covet? What would teams around the league give up a lot for Robert Thomas fit into that category. The thing I think that Blues fans disagreed with was the Blues said, hey look, you know, some of These guys are 26, 27. They might not be, you know, they might be 30, 32 by the time we're ready to compete. And I think fans looked at Robert Thomas, 26, and said, yeah, but not a guy like him. Like, like not a guy like him. And, and so anyway, you know, I think it went pretty far down the road with a potential trade. As Thomas confirmed it never got to the point where they asked him to waive his no trade clause. So at that time I was told it went far enough down the road that they felt like it would, they would Revisit it in the off season. Time wise. Time wise. This off season is also the year where there was a new general manager coming in. And so at the exit interviews, Robert Thomas, when asked that question about his status with the Blues, he said that I'll have talks with Alex Steen this year, this summer, and see if we can get on the same page. They had those talks. They did get on the same page. And it's a situation where Robert Thomas now feels comfortable with the direction that the Blues are going and he feels comfortable with what Alex Stein told him. So he's a guy who, I think if, if you want the most out of Dylan Holloway and the most out of Jimmy Snug Rud, you have to have Robert Thomas.
- [32:59]
Sean Gentili
That's, that's, that was leading into my next question or this, that, that the next part of the Robert Thomas question, I suppose. I mean, he's, he's two years older than Dylan Holloway. Like, if, if you're trading Robert Thomas, what does that say about the long term plan and what does that say about, you know, how you're going to approach other players on your roster? Because I, I, he's been around for a long time, right? But this is not, this is, this is still a guy who turned 27 about 15 minutes ago. So if you move him, then, then what? Like, what do you, what do you do elsewhere?
- [33:31]
Jeremy Rutherford
Which led to questions. Is, is it really his age? Is it really the fact that he's 26, 27, and you think that by the time you're competitive, he's not going to be able to help? Because there are a lot of talks about, you know, maybe the Blues don't think enough of his leadership to make him captain and how can you have Robert Thomas here and name somebody else the captain? So is that why you move him? Is that why you get a big haul for him now? And I think it's a situation where they, they decided eventually that, yes, his talent is going to be enough to help this team stay competitive, help the players around him and, and put the Blues in a situation where, you know, guess what? If, if he's 32 and still on this roster, this team is probably in a lot better shape than it would have been had you moved them.
- [34:17]
Sean Gentili
Said before Dylan hall is 24, 24 years old. How realistic is it to think that when he is 26 years old or 27 years old that he is their best player? I feel like there's a chance that he's, that he's tracking towards that. I know him and Thomas go hand in glove because, because they were so good as line mates last year. But man, he's shown shown so much in so many different phases of the game over the last couple years that it's easy to imagine, you know, us talking about this being the Dylan Holloway show in a few years.
- [34:47]
Jeremy Rutherford
That's definitely a possibility. But our colleague Scott Wheeler I think told it to me best. He said that Dylan Holloway does so many things but there's so many hard working dog on a bone. Coaches love things. It's not the flashy yeah that is going to get noticed where his face is going to be on TNT and ESPN when they're promoting the game. So I think he very well could be recognized as the best or one of the best players on the Blues. But I think you're always going to have a potential 80, 90, 100 point guy like Robert Thomas.
- [35:29]
Sean Gentili
Dylan Holloway is a player for hockey nerds. I think in a lot of ways he's not going to have the crazy crossing passes that Robert. This is not, I don't mean this is knock on Robert Thomas who's just an incredible playmaker. Right. But his, his game translates in a little bit of a different way. So yeah I that makes, that makes sense that track.
- [35:52]
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- [36:43]
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- [37:59]
Sean Gentili
time to move on to the goaltenders. This is is this Joel Hofer's net at this point? I mean my Gosh, he had a 9910 save percentage, really solid goals saved above expected numbers and 46 games last season. It doesn't matter which model you're looking at. I'm certain the sense here is that he's going to continue establishing himself as the, as the unquestioned starter in St. Louis, I would imagine, right?
- [38:23]
Jeremy Rutherford
Yes, for sure. He took over the role last year, Jordan Bennington, because of his stats and the down year, he slid to that number two role. Joel Hofer is the guy of the future. I think he's shown the ability to be a number one. Like he doesn't look unfazed when he gets more starts or he gets a string of starts or, you know, his play doesn't drop off anything like that. So they've definitely made the decision that they're leaning in that direction. And now Jordan Bennington just has one year left on that contract that he signed several years ago. So the Blues have a great situation in that the league's going to play two more games. You need a tandem today more than ever and you have a emerging young guy who's excited and eager to take over this top role. And meanwhile you have a guy in Jordan Bennington who, you know, after such a down year is challenged and wants to prove his worth again in the league. And his contract's up so he's going to want another contract. So he's going to be motivated to go out and play very well next year and support Joel Hofer. And if it leads to a trade next year, so be it. If not, you know, he becomes a free agent. He, he could he get another contract here in St. Louis? If he does, it's to be a backup. It's a short term deal. If he wants a longer term deal and to be the number one guy somewhere, it's going to have to be because of strong play next year, which is going to benefit the Blues.
- [39:46]
Sean Gentili
Is this a situation where it's just better for both sides for Bennington to start the season on the roster? Because there is obviously a lot of trade smoke surrounding him. He was brutal last year. 873 save percentage, you know, goal saved above expected. We're at the absolute bottomed, you know, pretty much regardless, again, of, of what model you look at. Very rough year for him. One year left on his deal, makes $6 million against the cap. Is. Is that just where we're at with him? That the thought is, you know, see what happens. Maybe plays his way back into, you know, adds to his value, at least relative to where it was last season. And then you kind of revisit some of the trade stuff that circulated around him over the last couple months.
- [40:24]
Jeremy Rutherford
Yeah, I think you can. The only thing is I, I think people, even in Jordan Bennington's camp, you know, I think people around the league, I think the Blues, I think everybody knows there can't be a ton of trade value in Jordan Bennington. Yeah, I always equate it to the, to the used car. Even though it's got 180,000 miles on it, it means a lot more to you than it does somebody else. So you're just not going to get a ton back. But meanwhile, you can use it for what it's for and what it's good at. And you know, I am not going to make excuses for Jordan Bennington for the way he played last year, but I will say that team wide, this team, there were. It was such a breakdown of everything defensively that they had to change the defensive system because of the goaltenders, because of the forwards, because of the defenseman. You know, down years for, you know, Fowler, for Perako, at times for other guys. And the other thing is you had a situation with Bennington where after leading the team to the Stanley cup, here we are a few years later, and now he's the Jake Allen who's got the Jordan Bennington coming to take his job. And then on top of that, you got four nations, you got the Olympic thing that you're trying to.
- [41:38]
Sean Gentili
There was busy, a busy man.
- [41:39]
Jeremy Rutherford
There was just so much last year, there was. There was so much going on. So now he's had a chance to reset, reflect. I wouldn't be surprised if we see a Jordan Bennington who not reclaims the job, but a Jordan Bennington who comes in and says, hey, you know, don't forget about me, guys.
- [41:54]
Sean Gentili
The used car analogy, that's what makes you one of the greats, my friend. All right, we are at the end here. We're going to talk playoff chances. JR how in your purview, from your chair, how do the Blues stack up in the Central Division in the Western Conference for this season? Like, is staying in wild card contention enough like we did? For all their problems, this is a team that still finished. You know, they only finished four points out of a playoff spot last year. So is that enough? Is it enough? There's still a solid chunk behind, you know, the elite teams in the Central and maybe a bit behind the Utah Mammoth. Like, are we expecting more? Are we expecting less? What does success look like for them in 26, 27?
- [42:33]
Jeremy Rutherford
Yeah, I think it's just a good play out of their young players and competing for a wild card spot. Like, I don't see any way how you can compete with the Colorado, Dallas's, Minnesota, Utah's up and coming. They've taken a step above the Blues for sure. You know, I know Winnipeg stepped back. Nashville had a kind of a tale of two seasons. So, you know, I think that, hey, if the Blues miss the playoffs next year, I don't think that's the end of the world here in St. Louis. But I think that continued development out of the Snugger Roods and out of these younger players is what everybody's going to be watching. And I think if that happens, Sean, everybody is going to say, okay, we're like, what we thought. We thought we were a couple years away. We need some games under the belt of these young players, and they're going to get there. But, yeah, I don't see a way you compete in the top three in the summer. And just like going into the past two years, you thought that, okay, maybe the wild card could be a possibility. But look at these last couple years. Everybody knew that that was the end of kind of a run with certain players, like a Braden Shen, like a Justin Falk. The leaf has been turned. Now it's a different team, a different roster. They're counting on different guys, and you can't really predict what's going to happen because we don't know what to expect from a lot of these guys 26 years and younger, so. So we'll have to see. But I think that's what makes it exciting, exciting for the Blues fans here in St. Louis is that leaf has turned and now there's some reason for optimism. Regardless of what the outcome is.
- [44:10]
Sean Gentili
Sounds like everything's pretty well calibrated there. Like, honestly, like, I, I think, I think expectations seem like they're set in the right place and their roster is, you know, better situated for three years down the road than certainly it was, it was a bit ago. So they're, they're interesting. I, I think if you're talking about, you know, the Utahs and the, you know, the LA Kings and those in those teams that were sort of in the, in the churn when it came to the last wild card spot, man, I, I think, I think the Blues are certainly a fascinating, fascinating team to, to watch there. Thank you, buddy. And we're going to keep an eye on your work as always. We're going to keep an eye on the, on the, on the Robert Thomas hangout piece. I, I can't wait to see what, can't wait to see what comes out of that one. I will, I will, I will remember the ding of that message. Message for, for all my days.
- [44:56]
Jeremy Rutherford
Yeah. And yeah, just keep reading.
- [44:57]
The Athletic Promo Announcer
The Athletic.
- [44:58]
Jeremy Rutherford
And by the way, if they didn't send out this snazzy new hat. Oh, I, I was wearing my dusty Cardhart hat too for a while.
- [45:07]
Sean Gentili
I missed the sign update on the, on the hat sign up. They won't go too far and how this stuff works. But I was, I was busy and missed it and everyone got one except for me. I'm furious. Thank you, buddy. Enjoy the rest of the summer.
- [45:20]
Jeremy Rutherford
You too.
- [45:22]
Sean Gentili
Thank you, junior. Thank you. Producer Jeff thanks you Find folks, for watching and listening to this episode of the Athletic Hockey Show. Laz and Scott Powers are going to try to fix the Chicago Blackhawks. That's on Monday and we will see the next time on tahs.
- [45:43]
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