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- [00:00]
Announcer
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- [01:37]
Announcer
This is the Athletic Hockey Show.
- [01:51]
Sean Gentili
What up?
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Jacob MacInnis
What up?
- [01:52]
Sean Gentili
It's the Athletic Hockey show for May 6, 2026. I'm Sean Gentili. I'm here with Frankie Corrado and Sean McIndoo. We're going to talk about the Western Conference semifinals. We're probably going to talk a little Kane's Flyers because that's a series I'm on. But we are going to start with the NHL draft lottery.
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Jacob MacInnis
I'll.
- [02:16]
Sean Gentili
I'll just, I'll recount my evening. I took a little nap, woke up at about 7:22 to some real action in the Wednesday show group chat, which over the last couple weeks has taken a slightly negative tone about the Toronto Maple Leafs. The boys were positive though. It was producer Jeff, it was Sean, it was Frankie. Something good happened, right? That's a. This is, this is a good. Winning the draft lottery is a, is a positive thing, is it not, man?
- [02:52]
Frankie Corrado
I'll tell you what. All the fantasy hockey fans out there that think their general manager can wheel and deal the way you can on Yahoo. Sports and there's a lot of leaf fans like That I know them and like, they're in my community.
- [03:08]
Jacob MacInnis
Yeah, you're relate.
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Sean Gentili
You're related to some of them.
- [03:10]
Frankie Corrado
I'm related to a lot of them. I hear from them frequently. This is your time to shine. This is your time to shine. Because all those crazy offers and options that you think about at 2 in the morning when you can't sleep because the Leafs haven't won a Cup since 1967, those babies are on the table now. And this is your time to figure out how John Checa and Matt Sundin are going to fix the Leafs, because they now finally have legitimate options.
- [03:43]
Jacob MacInnis
They had, up until last night they had the task in front of them of fixing this team and they had exactly zero assets to work with to make that happen. And. And now that number has moved up to one.
- [04:05]
Sean Gentili
They did it.
- [04:05]
Jacob MacInnis
Boys, Here we go.
- [04:08]
Sean Gentili
Are we. Frank, let's go back to you on that. Like, would you just flat out, are you making the pick or are you trading it?
- [04:15]
Frankie Corrado
Well, okay, I look at it this way, and this is going to be a long answer, but I'll try and get you the Coles notes.
- [04:22]
Sean Gentili
I don't, I don't care, man. This is like, this isn't me. Like you.
- [04:25]
Frankie Corrado
CJ Our pal CJ Comes out with a report that Auston Matthews is contemplating whether he's coming back in the fall or not. So clearly, like, he has had more than just preliminary thoughts of where his career looks like it's headed now. You get this first overall pick, you've been given this lifeline, this life raft, and you can, you can do something with it. Do you trade it? Do you keep it? If you keep it, what does that mean for Auston Matthews? If you trade it, what does that mean for, you know, the here and now of the team? So if you think that Matthews is going to leave anyways, would you not look at this and say, we're going to keep the pick, we're going to draft McKenna, we're going to trade Matthews two years out from his contract expiring, and we're going to get, I don't know, look at any organization that he might want to go to, whether it's San Jose or Utah or wherever, and say, we want Michael Misa where we want teacher Genla and we want Simishev and we want Dickinson and we want a first round pick. And that's part one. Then you now you have McKenna player AB that are all, you know, 20 to 22, that are going to be very good in the league. So you Got three pieces. Then you turn to William Nylander and you say, listen, Matthews is moving on. We're going with a new core here. We're going to. We're going to go young, early 20s, guys. Then you do the same deal somewhere for William Nylander. And it might not be exactly the same, but you're getting. You're going to get a good package in return for Will. He's one of the best wingers in the NHL. So you turn to your fan base after that and you say, we tried it with the core. It didn't work. Here's our new core. It's Gavin McKenna, and it's player A and B from this team, player X and Y from this team. And we have like five. Five, like early 20s, late teens, studs that we're going to go with here. And we might miss the playoffs next year, but we're not going to miss the playoffs for very long with this new core group, and we're going to try and be good again for the next 10 years. Is that not how you would play this out if you were thinking long term?
- [06:32]
Jacob MacInnis
Macindale, you lost me at thinking long term with this group we got assembled. Look, that makes a lot of sense, what you just said. That is. And at the end of the day, Austin Matthews holds the cards here. So. And, And I gotta say, the fact that indirectly, but through. Through CJ, who we all trust, we kind of got the message that Matthews is. Is wait and see, even on next season. That's a big deal. Like, I gotta be honest, if that news came out about Connor McDavid or Brady Tkachuk or, you know, somebody, I would be waving my arms around going, guys, that's a lot of smoke. We should maybe check if there's fire here. So the fact that it was with Matthews that, that it has to be a concern, does this change it?
- [07:22]
Frankie Corrado
I don't know.
- [07:22]
Jacob MacInnis
Maybe it does. You know, the, The. The Leafs have got a ton of needs on this roster, but from Austin Matthews perspective, the number one need is probably I need a winger. So I'm not dragging, you know, Bobby McCann and Max Domi's of the world up and down the ice all the time, and now you've got your guy. And it's. It's simplistic to say that you. You take a. A shifty, skilled winger like McKenna, and that's your new Mitch Marner, but it's kind of your new Mitch Marner, like, you know, as a best case, maybe is. Is.
- [07:56]
Sean Gentili
Is a better offensive. Offensively, I I don't think that's.
- [07:59]
Jacob MacInnis
Yeah. Without the defensive side, but, but, you know, offensively he can, he can fit in there. And does, does that move the needle for Austin Matthews? It might, it also might not. It might be Austin Matthews going, oh, great. So I've, I've got a babysit a teenager for a couple of years while we're waiting. And, and you know, keep in mind the Matthew Schaefers of the world aside, guys rarely have a big impact in year one, sometimes not even in year two. And McKenna is viewed as a good prospect, but he's not, you know, he's not at that level of a guy where, you know, we're expecting him to come in and be Crosby or McDavid or what people thought Connor Bedard was going to be. So it's, it's, it's tough to say. And the thing with Austin Matthews is if you're the Leafs, best case is, he says, I love it. I'm in. I want to be part of this. I buy the vision. Can't wait till next summer when I can sign an extension, all that stuff. Okay, great. That's the best case, though. The not as good case, but not terrible case is one that is kind of Frankie was alluding to, which is, Austin Matthews says, I'm not really in. I'd like to explore somewhere else, trade me, but I'm willing to go to a bunch of different places, which is what you need in order to get those, those kind of packages that the Frankie's talking about. The worst case is Austin Matthews says, I'm out. I don't want to be here. And here's my list of three teams or two teams or one team that I'm willing to go to. And at that point, you don't, unless you're willing to get really ugly about it. You don't really have any options. You're, you're, you're, you're up the creek at that point and you're, you're basically paying the, the tax on all the mistakes of the past coming due at the same time. So that, you know that. That is a question. What does Austin Matthews think about this? And how can this new management group that I feel like we all had strong opinions on up until last night
- [10:13]
Frankie Corrado
at about 7:15, we're just distracted now.
- [10:16]
Jacob MacInnis
We are distracted.
- [10:17]
Sean Gentili
And, and look there's made him and made those guys smart. Two, Two things they weren't before, they are now.
- [10:23]
Jacob MacInnis
Two things can be true. Number one, whatever you thought of, of John Chaika and Matt Sundin and Keith Pelly and the press conference and the process and, and who they talked to and how they did this and how they wound up where they did. Any feelings you had on that leading up to Monday while you were watching the press conference in the, in the hours afterwards, none of that changes because some ping pong balls bounced. Okay? Nobody got smarter. Nobody got, you know, if anything, if you thought we had a bunch of dummies running this team, now you just got a bunch of dummies who are a little bit emboldened and, you know, think it's, think the plan is already working. So that didn't change anything about that group. But as far as the future and what the roadmap looked like for this team, it did change some things. And it does suddenly take this group that not a lot of us had much confidence in and give them, I wouldn't even say an easier path, but maybe now there's a manageable, workable path opposed to expecting the impossible, which is get this junk heap of a roster back into contention overnight. Because. Dot dot dot magic beans?
- [11:38]
Sean Gentili
It makes the situation with Matthews manageable, like, regardless of what happens. Yeah, I, I'll go with, I'll go with maybe on that. But you can see, you can see the path forward, though, and I think they're all workable now. If it's a situation where, you know, if they, if they, if we're at the draft or at free agency and all, and there's even more smoke around them, maybe, maybe Matthew's wants to explore his future stuff, then. Okay. And if he wants to stick, okay. And the path that's available now, which I don't think would have been available, you know, 24 hours ago, frankly, is that you can play it both ways. You can have a year here where you don't have any ultimate resolution with Matthews. If he tells you, I want, like, let's wait and see, let's see how this goes. That is an option now in a way that it wasn't before, because you, you see how things work with McKenna. You see how things work with the, with the new management team. You see what the vibe is just more generally with Matthews and I guess, to a lesser degree, Nylander, how they respond to it, how they feel about it, what the team looks like, what the roster looks like after a full off season's worth of work, what it looks like after a season's worth of games. And that, to me, is when the plan that Frankie talked about before, assuming the Matthews is, is healthy Enough to not completely nuke his value next summer is when you start talking about that's, that's when it turns into, are we extending Auston Matthews? Are we, are we keeping Nylander around? Are we turning this into those guys with, with McKenna plus whatever, whatever stuff you add? Or is that when the blow up happens? Is, is that when the rebound happens? Is that when you try to trade Auston Matthews for Michael Misa or, or Beckett's, or Beckett Seneca or you know, one of those, one of those kind of a package led by those sort of players and then you have your post, Matthews, McKenna Core. So I think that makes sense now in a way that it didn't, that it didn't before either, because it, there was no intermediate to me. There was no intermediate route. It was either. You, you got to try to, you know, decide on, on the 30 year olds now or in one way or another and enjoy having, you know, the fifth pick in the draft or, or whatever we were looking at before. I think, I think this opens up a route that wasn't present previously.
- [14:13]
Jacob MacInnis
The other thing, it kind of does, and this is maybe more psychological than, than anything else, but it does make it feel a little bit more palatable, especially if next year goes sideways to, to just do the tear it down rebuild. Because the thing looming over that has always been you don't have your next two picks. They're going to Boston and Philly. So what can you really do? What are you going to bottom out and you don't get the, the, the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow for doing that? And now like, you already got your pot of gold in the sense that you got a first overall pick. Lots of teams bottom out for two years and never get the first overall pick because, you know, the lottery just doesn't bounce that way for them. So you already got it. Yeah, it would be nice to get a couple more high picks, but you've got something now to build around and that something is not, you know, whoever they would have got at fifth this year if they had kept the pick and stayed where they were would have been a good player. But would it be a building block that you can, you can do the
- [15:16]
Frankie Corrado
whole team around Veerhoff, it's different for sure.
- [15:19]
Jacob MacInnis
Yeah, just kind of gives permission. It, it sort of opens up a few more options again, you know, does it, does it change it from, you know, from a roster building theory all that much? Probably not, but just, you know, the psychology and, and frankly just of the fan base, just the, you Know, the vibe was so negative yesterday. I mean, there, there were points yesterday where I actually found myself thinking like, are there scenarios where John Shayka doesn't make it to, to opening night? Like, is this, is it going to get this bad? And now through absolutely no credit to anyone other than just pure dumb luck, it's, it's better now. And you know, you're starting to see the, you know, the, the fans are kind of okay. We're so back, you know, all of that and a lot of it's tongue in cheek and, and having some fun with it, but it buys them maybe a little bit more time, a little bit more credibility. And after Monday afternoon, they needed any ounce of credibility they could get because it felt like it was about to get real ugly real fast.
- [16:26]
Frankie Corrado
Yeah. And okay, so we started the show kind of talking about how if you were a hardcore Leafs fan and you have all these wild, imaginative ideas, now's your time to let them run free. So I wonder this, I wonder if none of it matters for Auston Matthews anyways. Like, I want. I just wonder if John Checa being the GM is the non starter. And it's like good for you guys. Like it's great that the organization is going to get the first overall pick. Like, John Chaca is not my cup of tea. Like, remember when Shane Doane was brought into the organization? Shane Doane was brought in with the hopes of kind of helping Auston Matthews stick around for the long term. Shane Doane was Auston Matthews hockey hero out in the desert. We know the story now that John Chaika was the gm. Didn't bring back Shane Doane when he was willing to come back and do whatever, push pucks in practice, you name it, he just wanted to be there. And that wasn't the case. So chances are Shane Doane is probably elsewhere very soon. So. And optics and PR are very important in a big market. So if you're the Matthews camp, how can you use this to your advantage and plan the best, most graceful exit possible? Because you always say in life, leave it better than how you got it and don't leave the room smelling like you know what. So if you were the Matthews camp, you could look at this and say, okay, didn't want to play for this GM anyways. Didn't have interest in what his vision was going to be. Don't believe in him. These guys are getting the first overall pick now. Well, that's great. I can give them two years notice that I'm not going to re sign there. So they have plenty of time to make a substantial deal because whatever team wants to acquire me and I'm going to give them a list of five teams, let's say that they can work with, that I would sign with, they're going to give them a good package because they're getting two years plus whatever extension I'm potentially going to sign there. Like the Matthews camp, if they really did not want to be here, they could leverage this situation to make it a PR like sweetheart of a deal for them as they exit the door. And it's not Matthews getting pitchforked on his way out. It's like he gave you advanced notice. You know, you got the first overall pick, you're going to get a great package for him. And he didn't leave the organization in a worse spot than when he got there, which I can attest to was not in a good spot when he got there. So they could really leverage it if they really had no interest in coming back.
- [19:09]
Sean Gentili
Yeah. And I do think it's a situation where, if that were to, if he were to get to the point where it's like, okay, this is not like, I don't want. I'm not going to sign another deal here. I think it, I think it's very feasible that it would be. Here's a list of five, not a list of two, not a list of one. I think, I think, you know, I, it would, it would surprise me if, if, if, if it got to that point and if he really hamstrung them. So, so, you know, there is an exit, there's an exit route. There's all. There's also a world where, you know, everything works out too. And I don't think that was available to them, you know, 15 hours ago.
- [19:48]
Jacob MacInnis
There's a world where everything works out and Austin Matthews stays in. This team, like, is a wild card. I, I, like we got clear on what completely feels like for, for where they, they've still got, they've still got a mountain to climb, but at least now they've got a little pickaxe and, and yeah, get him started. Instead of Keith Pelly going like, all right, do it. Here's some flip flops. Go get it done.
- [20:14]
Sean Gentili
This is, this is the Rock hammer. This is the Andy Dufresne rockhammer that, that is, that he's using to dig his way out.
- [20:20]
Frankie Corrado
Like, Chaika has been asked, right. Like, he's done a couple sit downs recently and he's been asked where, where do you need to address the organization first? First thing he's said is very, very funny. Right. Like, what do you. What's the first thing that sticks out? Blue line. He said it at least twice that I've heard. So are you going to take Chase Reed first or Carson Carl's first? I mean, it feels like if you really wanted to get creative with this pick, is there a world where you could trade down a pick or two so you could draft the defenseman and then get something that helps you who's a really good early 20s player? Like, I'm just.
- [20:59]
Sean Gentili
What would you guys think if he did that? Like as a, as a Leaf alum and as the Internet's most famous, famous Leafs fan?
- [21:05]
Frankie Corrado
Like, I would think I would think these guys mean business here.
- [21:09]
Jacob MacInnis
What?
- [21:12]
Frankie Corrado
Right. Like, I think, I think they, they meet. Like these guys are creative and they're willing to be cutting edge and try some things that are out of the norm. Something that the like previous.
- [21:23]
Sean Gentili
Illegal. Illegal under NHL bylaws.
- [21:26]
Frankie Corrado
Yes, yes, yes, totally. That's what I would think.
- [21:30]
Jacob MacInnis
Let me lay it out for you. Okay, how about this? We're talking about, oh, the Leafs won the lottery. Leafs won the lottery. Whenever a team wins the lottery, that means a bunch of other teams didn't win and you get a bunch of complaining. And I'm hearing some not unjustified complaining coming from our friends out west in Vancouver saying this was. And look, the Canucks deserve the number one overall pick. I'll say that with no, no problem. They were the worst team in the league by a mile. They weren't tanking. They didn't do any of that. They were trying to win. The Quinn Hughes stuff happened. It just all fell apart. The Canucks deserve the first overall pick. They didn't get it from the lottery. Okay, now what? You're going to sit around, you're going to complain? Or are you going to do what a GM in Vancouver did back in 1999 when he wanted some high picks? When Brian Burke looked at the Sadie's and said, I want both those guys, and he made it happen. He figured it out. He sat down, he made a whole bunch of trades, got everyone together on the draft floor, wrangled it all together and he got it done. Now, different era, all that stuff. Sure, of course. And I'm not saying Brian Burke was the model GM that everyone needs to follow, but Brian Burke wouldn't have sat around going, oh, the lottery didn't cooperate. I guess I just have to go, hey, Vancouver, you got a number three pick? Maybe. Could that get flipped to two or even one? It probably could get on the phone. Let's go. We'll have a couple of new. We got, we got Chaika and, and to be determined in Vancouver.
- [23:00]
Sean Gentili
Yeah, who's, who's Jacob calling on the phone?
- [23:03]
Jacob MacInnis
You got nobody to call Rutherford. Right. Rutherford's running the show there anyways. And, and so, and, and you call up Rutherford and you go, hey, man, I heard. What's this about? You're retiring. You're stepping back after the draft. Oh, that's a tough one. Boy. It'd be nice to go out with a splash. Wouldn't it be nice to just drop a nuke on the whole. Yeah, man, there's, there's places and, and, you know, the same whoever's 4, 5, 6 on down the line. Oh, we didn't get the pick we wanted. All right, Pick up the phone, call up, call up the, the wonderkid in Toronto, get this all figured out. Type into chat GPT. What would the Leafs want for the first overall pick and whatever. I mean, that's, you know, that's what they're going by. So there's, there's a way to get this done if teams are motivated to get something done instead of just sitting around on their hands making excuses about how some ping pong balls screwed them over.
- [23:53]
Sean Gentili
I think that's, that's one of the, that's the other big bit of news that come out of last night is that before, barely, barely after the ping pong balls dropped, we got, we got news out of Vancouver that Jim Rutherford's going to transition to alternate governor, governor role. He's going to step back and blah, blah, blah. So there's no one at the top of that organization right now. Frankie, it's allegedly what a day for Canucks fans.
- [24:18]
Frankie Corrado
Like, the first of all, it's been a whirlwind couple days for them because I'm sure you guys saw the reactions in Canucks Twitter, which is a wild place at the best of times, possibly the wildest.
- [24:29]
Sean Gentili
I think. I think I, I think Canucks Twitter might still lead the league in, in, in craziness, per 60, 100%.
- [24:36]
Frankie Corrado
And so they catch wind that Francesco Accolini loves Pierre Dorian, essentially, and there's a good chance he's going to be the gm. And people lose their mind out there, and then they lose the draft lottery, but they lose the draft lottery to Toronto, who they hate. They hate Toronto more than they like themselves. That's how deep it goes out in Vancouver. Like, people don't understand that, I think, unless you've experienced it, like I always tell people this, that when I got drafted out there, people would say this to me all the time, like locals or whatever, who I met. Like, it must be weird for you being out in Vancouver. I said, why? Well, because, you know, we hate you guys so much in Toronto.
- [25:20]
Mint Mobile Advertiser
Really?
- [25:21]
Frankie Corrado
You guys hate us? Like, me? You guys don't hate, like. Like, no, we don't think about you at all. And, like, that's why we hate you. Anyways, so it was the worst possible scenario for Canucks fans, but I did see the hysteria surrounding Pierre Dorian. Listen, was Pierre always the most comfortable in front of the camera? No. Did he say the right things most times in front of the camera?
- [25:46]
Sean Gentili
No.
- [25:47]
Frankie Corrado
No, no. Again, no.
- [25:48]
Jacob MacInnis
Was he good at his job?
- [25:50]
Frankie Corrado
No, he was good at aspects of his job. Okay. Keep in mind where Vancouver is right now, Vancouver's in a. In a spot where they're going to have to pick a lot. Like, they have to make a lot of draft picks, and they're going to have to hit on some draft picks. At the very least, Pierre is a good evaluator of talent and has ran good drafts on a, like, limited budget. In Ottawa, they don't have a huge, you know, kind of amateur scouting budget. So if you go through the history. Listen, not everyone bats 1,000%, but in, you know, looking back at things, he drafted Drake Batherson in the fourth round. He drafted Brady after that. He drafted Shane Pinto in the second round, Mark Castellik in the fifth round. The 2020 draft might have been a masterclass. Stutzler, Sanderson, Greg, all in the first round. Cleven in the second, Mary Linen in the third. Cole Reinhardt, who's having some success in the sixth round, where the big miss was at 10 in 2021 with Tyler Boucher. But that's. I guess what I'm saying is at the very least, he can evaluate and run drafts and pick good talent. And if he does that, let's say he's in your organization for three years and he does that, look what he left for Steve Stales. Yeah, he left him a pile of poo with the. The Dadnov thing. They had to figure that out. But he left the core of the team there for them to make the playoffs.
- [27:18]
Sean Gentili
It's a very success. It's a very successful core, too. They've won a ton of playoff games.
- [27:23]
Frankie Corrado
Not recently. No.
- [27:26]
Jacob MacInnis
I will say this. The other thing being here in Ottawa, Pierre Dorian's. You're right, he was very good. Drafting decent. Well, I would say very hit and miss on trades. But he won the Eric Carlson deal, which nobody at the time remember, we're all making fun of him. Five assets or whatever it was, he won that trade. But his number one skill with a bullet, managing up to the idiot owner in Vancouver. I'm not saying, but. But yeah, that was fascinating yesterday, watching, because it felt like what we saw yesterday was a trial balloon being released up into the air and then an entire fan base just pulling out like the. The duck hunter light guns and just absolutely blowing that trial balloon out of the air and sending it plummeting to the ground. Because by the time the lottery rolled around, we were getting reports that Dorian was out. We'll see. We'll see how it goes. But that. That might be an all timer trial balloon. And hey, question was asked, answer was delivered. Do with that information what you want now, I guess. Vancouver.
- [28:35]
Frankie Corrado
I. I want to ask Pierre because I see him around sometimes. He works for rds and I've never asked him this, but I'm going to try to when. When I see him again. When we all went home when Covid happened, it took a little while, but eventually we did exit meetings, which, you know, on Zoom, which I thought were kind of pointless at the time, it could have just been a phone call with, you know, Peter McTavish, who was the assistant GM and he was running Belleville. But it turned out it was Peter Pierre, the head coach, and I think Sean the other agm. And it was all on Zoom. And I didn't go on with my video. And so I log on and Peter goes, frankie, can you turn on your video? I said, no problem, guys. And I turn it on and I'm on like the fourth hole at Rattlesnake.
- [29:26]
Sean Gentili
I was going to say, what. What course were you on?
- [29:28]
Jacob MacInnis
Okay.
- [29:29]
Frankie Corrado
And they all look at me and they're like, we'll keep this brief for you. I'm like, thank you.
- [29:33]
Sean Gentili
Thank you. Much appreciated. Yeah, yeah. You're like, I don't. Do I still have to hit mute and pre. I'm not. I'm not about to take my tee shot here.
- [29:41]
Frankie Corrado
Can you imagine if they're doing some kind of evaluation? I just went, guys, hold on. I just got it. It's my turn here. I got to hit my shot. I gotta ask him about that. I bet. I bet he doesn't even remember because there's probably eight other guys that were on the golf course.
- [29:55]
Sean Gentili
Yeah. I was gonna say you were not the only one who was. Who was logged, who was logging into Zoom from. From that, from that, from that environment. All right, let's take a break. We're gonna come back, we're gonna Talk about Game 2 of Minnesota, Colorado, maybe a couple other things. Stick around.
- [30:17]
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- [33:03]
Sean Gentili
all right, we're back, fellas. Game two of Minnesota, Colorado. I thought we were going to get another nine, six game very, very briefly there. We saw two goals in six seconds. That's not what ended up happening. Five two, Colorado. They go up two zero in that series. I think that game more than anything is about the wild goaltending situation. Philip Gustafson comes in, allows, allows five total on 23. You know, they weren't all bad, but a couple of them sure were. You know, they move on, they move on from Wallstadt at least for a game. Yes, it was bad. Yes, he'd been incredible for them in the postseason up to that point. The second guess and quite fairly is taking place right now. There's a piece up on the site from Russo and Joe Smith saying as much. Where are we at this as a group? Because I tend to agree with the Minnesota beat guys that this was an unforced error on John Heinz part.
- [34:06]
Frankie Corrado
Well, it was. And answer me this. In a game where your goalie gives up nine, you would have it in the back of your head that at some point you might want to go to the other guy. And in this case it's Gustafson, who hasn't played in like over 20 days. So your goalie's giving up nine. Even once your goalie gets to like five or six, don't you start to think, well, maybe if I put Gus in, finish this game. This game is what it is. It's game one of the series. It's, it's flip a coin that helps him for the next game instead of throwing him out to McKinnon to feast on him. And nature, like, McKinnon basically had a signature game last night. Like, I think that that was a little short sighted of them. It's a freebie pull when, when the game is going like that. And at the very least, it gives the guy a rep or two just to feel game action instead of throwing him in like that.
- [35:01]
Jacob MacInnis
It, it, it does. Except game one was just so weird because your guy gives up nine goals and yet at no point were you out of that game. Right? I mean, it's. You would expect. Yes. When time you get to like goal number seven. Get, get your guy out of there.
- [35:21]
Frankie Corrado
Seven five. That's the one. Seven. It's seven five in the game, but
- [35:25]
Jacob MacInnis
then it's seven five. Right. You bring in a guy and if, if, if Gustafson comes in and gives up a softie, you're saying, oh man, you guys were right. In the game, you were right there. And, and you. I don't know. This is the sort of thing where it didn't work. Obviously, you know, Gustafsson wasn't great last night. And now, now what do you do? Because now you've, you've, you've. You don't really have confidence in either guy. And Colorado's offense is in. Is in your head, and it's, It's a mess, but it is. It's tough. I like, you know, your guy gave up nine goals. It's not unreasonable to say we're going to give the other guy, who's pretty good and has been pretty good for you for the last couple years. We're going to give him a shot at it. But it is tough in Minnesota. And I don't know if you guys saw, but Jesse Granger had a real interesting tweet where he was looking at how far back you have to go to find a team that won the Stanley cup while choosing to use multiple goalies in the same off season. And you got to go back a ways. It ends up being Washington. In 2018, Bobrovsky played every game. Vasilevsky played every game. Bennington played every game. Colorado and Vegas did switch goalies at some point in their playoff, in their cup runs, but that was because of injury. It wasn't because the coach said, we like this guy better than that guy. It's the old cliche about if you have two goalies, you don't have one. Hey, there's a lot of teams that would prefer to have two goalies over the zero that they have now. But it's, it's tough when you're, when you find yourself teetering back and forth, and now it's two nothing. And you've been in the series. Like you. This is not. You're not getting your doors blown off here in the sense that the Wild have shown they can play with the Avalanche, but playing with them and beating them are two different things. And yeah, the goaltending is the big question right now. And I mean, it's, it's. If we go out there for game three and the first shot goes in, even if it's not a bad goal, even if it's a bounce or a sniper, we know that camera is going to the backup on the bench, that cameras go into the goalie, the, the. The coach, the goaltender looking at the bench, that sort of thing. We, we know how this script goes, and it rarely works out well for a team.
- [37:50]
Sean Gentili
It's a thought I had whenever Chris Knobloch was talking about going to. Tristan Jari went for that game against Anaheim, and he tried to justify it by saying, like, look, we see it. We see it across the league. You know, like, we knew coming into this that we were going to play two goalies regardless. Like, we're happy with both guys. We have. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. He does the whole, you know, the. The PR Massaging of the situation, and he's saying that I'm like, I. Not really, though. Like, I get. I get the teams do timeshares in the regular season, and I get that. You know, we've seen, you know, like. Like Jesse outlined guys take over for injury and whatever, but if you are coming into a situation, whether it's a series, whether it's the playoffs, at large, being like, yeah, we're probably going to play both guys in. In this over the course of the next 10 days. That's not a spot where you want to be in. Like, you can convince yourself of it. Like, you can. You can try to. You can spin it whatever way you want, but that's. That's not the. That's still not the way it works once, you know, April and May and June come around.
- [38:50]
Frankie Corrado
It's. It's interesting how.
- [38:51]
Jacob MacInnis
Sorry, Frankie, Can. Can we. Can we just mention how weird the goaltending is in the second round?
- [38:58]
Frankie Corrado
Our.
- [38:59]
Jacob MacInnis
Our buddy Ryan Lambert made a point to me yesterday that I found interesting. Do you guys know how many goalies who are starting in the second round have ever had a vezina vote? Even so much as one vezina vote? I'll give you the whole list.
- [39:14]
Frankie Corrado
Like a first place vote or.
- [39:15]
Jacob MacInnis
No, not even on a ballot. On a ballot.
- [39:18]
Frankie Corrado
Ballot.
- [39:19]
Jacob MacInnis
I'll give you the whole list. All right, you ready? It's Freddie Anderson.
- [39:24]
Frankie Corrado
That's it.
- [39:25]
Sean Gentili
And Freddie Anderson.
- [39:26]
Jacob MacInnis
That's the list. What world are we in when playoff. Freddie Anderson is the gold standard for your goaltending?
- [39:34]
Frankie Corrado
Freddy's looks great, actually.
- [39:35]
Sean Gentili
He's been really good, fantastic. But he's been really like.
- [39:38]
Jacob MacInnis
He's.
- [39:39]
Frankie Corrado
It looks like Freddy. And you know what?
- [39:41]
Jacob MacInnis
Guy who's got the reputation, he's the one lock and everyone else is. And I mean, if you're Stan Bowman, you got to be tearing where your hair would be if you had any out because you're sitting there going, everyone's bashing me because I didn't get a goalie. Nobody's got a goalie. And it's. Everybody's got. Or everyone's got good enough goaltending. Nobody's got the superstars. No Vasilevsky out. No Swayman's out, Ottinger's out. You all go down the list and not even getting into the guys who didn't even make it. It's, it's such a weird position and sometimes it works out. Sometimes the weirdness works for you, and sometimes you're the Minnesota Wild.
- [40:20]
Frankie Corrado
Yeah, like Freddie. Freddy was really good at Anaheim, but Jonathan Quick was better. And then he got traded to Toronto and he played on some poorest, poorest teams in Toronto where just eventually the dam was going to break and now he's playing well. So I'm happy for Freddie. But I think it's interesting how narratives can shift over time because dgb, you take us back to the Washington Capitals using group hour and Holtby. Well, the season before it was Matt Murray and Mark Andre Fleury and the season before that it was Jeff Zachoff and Matt Murray and Mark Andre Fleury.
- [40:56]
Sean Gentili
The Jeff Zachoff game against the Rangers, that's still, that's still one of the craziest, craziest things I've ever, I've ever been in the building for.
- [41:02]
Frankie Corrado
If we had this conversation in 2019, we would be saying, the days of a number one guy playing all 22 games, it's over. We have three years of, like, evidence of sample size where you need both guys. The wear and tear, just the unpredictability of the position. But it has gone the other way. The pendulum has swung because of Bobrovsky, because of Vasilevsky. But I still think there is a world where, you know, we've seen this, we've, we've had these conversations the other way before. So I'm not saying it can't be done. Ultimately, it depends more on what's happening in front of the goalie than just the goalie itself. Because there were times in those series where the team wasn't playing well and they had to make a change and it wasn't just the goaltending and that sparked something. So I'll be hard pressed to believe that happens for Minnesota against Colorado. It feels like Colorado. It feels like anyways, they're going to go to the conference final without losing a game. That's kind of what it feels like. So they're, they're in tough, but I don't know, we'll, we'll see what they go with. I think if you went with Gustafson, you probably want to go with Gustafson again.
- [42:17]
Sean Gentili
Yeah.
- [42:17]
Frankie Corrado
Or else why even go with him? Like just your pot committed to Wallstead at that point. But maybe the night off gives them a chance. It's. It's a, It's a tricky thing to navigate.
- [42:25]
Sean Gentili
Yeah, they made, they. They made a mess of it. That's, that's kind, that's kind of what it boils down to. All right, we got. We. We got two games tonight. We got Montreal, Buffalo, Anaheim, Vegas. Let's start. Let's start with game one of. Of Sabers. Of Sabers Canadiens. Quick thoughts, Frankie. Where are we? Where are we on that? We. Let's just, let's do some picks. How do we see. How do we see this. How do we see this one playing out today?
- [42:48]
Frankie Corrado
Let's see, say Habs and seven. I think this one goes the distance. I think it's close, but not low scoring close. I think it's high scoring close. And it's going to be different for Montreal, right? Like McDonough and Chernak, they were gobbling up Caulfield and Suzuki in the corner. Sorelli was all over Suzuki. Those, those characters are not really in this series where it's different is Dahln and Byram and Power. They're really mobile and they're up the ice and they're, you know, engaged in the offensive zone. So you have to be aware so what you will, what you will gain in space for your top guys in this series, you will have to be equally as aware of their mobile blue end, blue line and how that can. That can hurt you. But I think it's close in the sense that like, it's a lot of 4, 3, 5, 4 kind of games.
- [43:37]
Sean Gentili
That sounds fun.
- [43:38]
Jacob MacInnis
Yeah. I think this series could be the most fun of any series and we had some good ones in the first round, so I'm putting pressure on them. But all the ingredients are there for this to get really volatile. And yeah, I'm, I'm kind of with Frankie that I see it going long. I see it being, you know, not high scoring but, but not, not the. I don't think we're getting the one nothing game like we had in the, in the Tampa series. And I, I think it's going to be all sorts of fun to watch and you know, just, just to get into and kind of watch the. These two teams go at it. I, I am kind of not. Not to look too far ahead. I'm kind of fascinated by the idea that everyone's picking this game to this series to go seven and I think it does too. I'm picking that as well. Meanwhile, we got Carolina on their Way to a sweep of the Flyers. And they're already two games ahead. Like, welcome to the party. Montreal and Buffalo. What? How long? If Carolina ends that series in four, they're gonna have two weeks in between that and the conference.
- [44:43]
Sean Gentili
I'm psyched. I'm psyched at the prospect of that because I can actually go home for a couple days. I mean, that'd be nice.
- [44:50]
Jacob MacInnis
We'll get you. We'll get you to Buffalo.
- [44:53]
Sean Gentili
Eight days. Eight days in Buffalo. When they're. When. And I'm. When I'm just, like, waiting for that series to start. Yeah. Yeah. I could make that happen.
- [45:00]
Jacob MacInnis
That would be fun. I, I. But, yeah, that. This is. This is going to be a good one. I can't wait. Buffalo, the easiest team to root for. Montreal, also a very easy team to root for, but I think they're playing the heel in this series, so we'll see how that goes over both the buildings are going to be rocking. It's 1980s Adams Division Energy. This is. This has the potential to be an A plus series.
- [45:24]
Sean Gentili
I believe in Suzuki Caulfield, in Slafkovsky. I think that's. I think that's what it comes down to for me. They were not good at 5 on 5 against Tampa. That's fine. Ain't playing Tampa no more. This is a different. This is a different setup. I think those guys, much as it pains me, much as much as we. As much as we've talked. We've talked about the Savers a lot. We talked about them consistently, even when things were going badly. I think we all have some degree of fondness for that team. I. I don't. I don't think I can get there with them, but we'll see, man. It's going to be fun. Patrick Division and energy. I'll take it. Frankie, what's going on for you this week, man? Are you late week? I hope so.
- [46:09]
Frankie Corrado
Lighter week. Yeah. Day off today and tomorrow. I'm actually going to do a CTV news hit with my buddy Matt Scooby in about 45 minutes, so. Hopping on the Real news channel.
- [46:21]
Sean Gentili
Go put on. Go put on a tie, bud. What is this? You can't. You can't. Can't get a. Can't get away with a hoodie.
- [46:26]
Frankie Corrado
You got to. Got to throw on a tight. But actually kind of getting ready now for Memorial cup, which is coming around the corner. CHL heading into their championship series, so. Should be fun, boys, and always look forward to catching up.
- [46:40]
Sean Gentili
Love it. Talk to you next week. Man,
- [46:46]
Jacob MacInnis
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Jacob MacInnis
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- [48:05]
Frankie Corrado
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Jacob MacInnis
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- [48:17]
Sean Gentili
All right, Sean McInew, we are back. I would like to tell you something that I've learned.
- [48:20]
Jacob MacInnis
What have we learned, Sean?
- [48:23]
Sean Gentili
I've learned that we are going to learn something about the Anaheim Ducks tonight against the Vegas Golden Knights. Because what we saw from them after Game one, there's a controversial icing situation there. They were pissed. Joel Quinville pissed. Everybody's pissed. I don't think we saw them get mad against Edmonton to that degree at any point. Yeah, they lose. They lose Game one. I didn't. I was around for that. I didn't get the sense that there was any degree of frustration there and then from then on out, there was no frustration at all. And that's in that series for them. I think they're in a different spot now and I think when they. Because they play tonight, I believe it's at 9:30 Eastern. When that goes down, I think they're going to find themselves in a spot that they haven't been in. And that's always what the playoffs are like for teams that are doing it for the first time.
- [49:14]
Frankie Corrado
Right.
- [49:15]
Sean Gentili
You see them respond to different situations. Every game's different and yada, yada. But I. That's a cliche. But I think, especially for a team that's getting its first protracted, you know, run in the playoffs, and that's certainly. That's certainly where the Ducks are. I think. I think it's worth watching how they, how they respond to different circumstances and different in different situations. And this is one that they haven't faced yet because they were. Because they were mad after game one and they were. It was understandable in a lot of ways.
- [49:44]
Jacob MacInnis
Yeah. And I think you. You put it perfectly in something you wrote about Carolina in the series you're covering where you said any, any team can win the cup when things are going well. You got to be able to win when things aren't going well. And Carolina showed they can do that. Now we find out if Anaheim did shout out to the hockey Gods. By the way, I was getting a little tired of offside reviews and interference controversies, and they've mixed it up. They've given us the. Is the puck over the goal line in the first round and now I guess we're doing icing. We're going to get mad over icing. That's fun. I don't even want to think about what's going to happen in the conference final, but maybe we'll get Face off violations will be the.
- [50:25]
Sean Gentili
Oh, my God. By the way. By the way. Just, just. It's funny you brought that up every. I don't know. It'll be a different. It'll be a different crew officiating Cane's Flyers. Whenever that happens. On Thursday, that was. I. It was absolutely egregious how long it was taking those guys to drop. To drop the puck. It was. It was incredible that we have to get it right.
- [50:51]
Jacob MacInnis
Do not understand the game. The rulebook doesn't serve the game. The game serves the rulebook. You have to get everything exactly right. I've said for years we should be doing replay review on those face offs. There's always somebody with their foot over the line. We could. We could wipe every goal off the board.
- [51:09]
Sean Gentili
Brindamore is going to say it. He might say that if, if this, if. If Face off stuff starts. Starts to creep in, he's gonna find. He's gonna find some way to say that it should be reviewed.
- [51:18]
Jacob MacInnis
Because I've been saying for years that is going to happen someday. There is going to be one where it's going to be so obvious and then it's, it's going to start the same way. Someone's going to go guy. I mean, couldn't somebody just do a
- [51:30]
Sean Gentili
quick dude, I'm telling you, Brindamore. Brindermore isn't a guy.
- [51:35]
Jacob MacInnis
We just lower a guy mission impossible style down and he hangs over the ice and he just yells down to the refs if they miss anything, we have to get it right.
- [51:44]
Sean Gentili
That is unironically what Rod Brindemore believes. He thinks that everything should be reviewed. He thinks that he thinks that high stick should be reviewed. He said it again yesterday. Like he's like, I don't just like, just like have a, have a guy
- [51:55]
Jacob MacInnis
who looks at it. Don't let Selkie winners become coaches in the NHL.
- [52:02]
Sean Gentili
Ban all Selkie winners from from the Coaches Association.
- [52:07]
Jacob MacInnis
Here's what I learned this week. I feel like we didn't talk enough about the Maple Leafs so far on this week's show, so I'm going to just throw out there that what I learned is that apparently it is possible to make trades in the NHL and have the NHL not really be sure
- [52:25]
Sean Gentili
what
- [52:27]
Jacob MacInnis
because we found out this week and our own Kevin Kerrs was the first one that I saw it from that apparently there is a custody dispute happening now between the Flyers and the Bruins over this next Maple Leafs first round pick. Because of course the fact that the Leafs did not lose their pick last night means that they now the next two go to Boston and Philly, we thought but maybe the next two go to Philly and Boston because there's some dispute over who owns which one. And I all I know is that anytime an NHL team makes a trade, I'm told that there's this incredibly elaborate process where 47 people have to get on a phone call and it all has to be worked out and all these details. But apparently you can still be in a situation like the Leafs where they made these two trades and I guess the conditions aren't clear or something is worded in a way or it's open to interpretation. And we don't know who gets this year's Leafs pick and who gets next year. We know the Leafs don't have either of them. We know Boston and Philly are getting one each, but we don't know who's got who's. And it doesn't seem to me like in a Professionally, well run league that this sort of thing should be able to happen. But here we are.
- [53:46]
Sean Gentili
You know what the league should do? They should punish both teams involved because that's, that's how they roll whenever something happens that they should have a handle on whether it's, whether it's the Dadnov situation, whether it's cap circ convention way back when with back diving contracts and, you know, Ilya Kovalchuk and whatever, they just punished the teams for doing it. They said this was this, this, this wasn't our, this wasn't our fault. Sure, we let it happen, but this is on you guys. Actually.
- [54:15]
Jacob MacInnis
First thing you do is, is you got to take a draft pick away from the Senators, clearly, just, just to send a message, just to let everyone know you're serious. And then I just. You know what I mean? I don't have a dog in this fight. I don't really care how it works out. But I think if this whole thing was this badly screwed up, you know what, we just scrap the trades entirely. Just give everything, everything back. Brandon Carlo goes back to the Bruins. The Leafs get their picks back. I don't know what we do with Scott Lawton, but I mean, you know, we'll figure that out and, and, and we just start over again. And if you want to renegotiate, if you can find Bradshaw living, you know, go ahead. But yeah, I think he's available over entirely. I think that's just what's fair for everyone. And I'm all about get. Being fair and getting it right.
- [55:03]
Sean Gentili
Ask, just ask Rod. And if it doesn't work out, then, you know, whoever gets drafted next year, maybe the Flyers and in, in Boston can split custody. They can do like there you go
- [55:17]
Jacob MacInnis
get the kids in parking lots, Wednesdays
- [55:21]
Sean Gentili
and weekends for one, every other day for everyone else. And you split up holidays accordingly. I think that's, that's how it worked for me. What's, what's up with you this week, man?
- [55:34]
Jacob MacInnis
So I got had my head my draft lottery rankings yesterday. Today I've got a post where I go through all 15 teams who, who now know where their draft picks are based on the lottery. And I explain why they should trade those picks, every single one of them. It's. It's an act of utter futility that I, I do from time to time because we know none of these GMs are going to trade anything. But, but here's my, here's my argument for each and every team. And then tomorrow or Friday gonna have a fun one. I don't get to do this one every year. But we're gonna look at some games from this season that in, in hindsight, oh God. Changed the results of the draft lottery.
- [56:19]
Sean Gentili
The draft lottery week is one of your many times to shine. It is, it's, that's, that's when we're getting pure, unfiltered Macindale.
- [56:26]
Jacob MacInnis
One of my favorite, favorite weeks of the year. I, I, I get a ton to write about. I'm a Leafs fan. It's the second round of the playoffs, so I'm usually not busy with watching any hockey. This is, this has been a big week. I've, I've been enjoying it a lot and yeah, let's, let's. The, the, the comment I hear often when I do the games that change the lottery piece is people write to me and they say, thanks very much. That ruined my week. And that's really the first feedback that I'm looking for. Anytime I write anything as an empath,
- [56:58]
Sean Gentili
I'm going to get upset 15 different times here too. So great.
- [57:02]
Jacob MacInnis
It's gonna be exciting.
- [57:04]
Sean Gentili
All right. That's, that's what's coming from Mac and do. I'm back on Thursday for our next show. That's me and Shayna. I am again in Philly Delphia for Canes for Kane's Flyers. We will talk to you tomorrow. Enjoy the games tonight and again me and Shannon tomorrow morning. See you then.
- [57:29]
Jacob MacInnis
Par Par.
- [57:33]
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- [58:08]
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- [58:56]
Frankie Corrado
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