Sean Gentile (2:58)

Yeah.

Hailey Salvian (2:59)

Happy New Year. I'm allowed to say it.

Sean Gentile (3:02)

No, we're past the Larry David deadline. I think that's January 3rd. We can't do it.

Hailey Salvian (3:06)

The only person who's allowed to say, too tight. That's way too tight. That's crazy.

Sean Gentile (3:12)

You're outing yourself.

Hailey Salvian (3:13)

It's just a grump who's like, you get two days, then leave me alone.

Sean Gentile (3:17)

Haley, you're outing yourself as a non listener of the American Hockey show that Cuss and Sna used to do. Because that was.

Hailey Salvian (3:26)

Well, that's why I said happy New Year and asked the question. Because Craig was the, like, he was the arbiter of that.

Sean Gentile (3:32)

Oh, I. He. He. He was dragging. He was dragging. No, no, no, no, no. He was not strict. He was dragging Happy New Year's into.

Hailey Salvian (3:39)

Say, Happy New Year march.

Sean Gentile (3:40)

Yeah. Same St. Patrick's Day. And Craig's dropping Happy New Year's.

Hailey Salvian (3:46)

But now I think we're someone in 2026.

Sean Gentile (3:50)

I think we're past the deadline. I hate, I hate to break it to you.

Hailey Salvian (3:55)

All right. Craig signed off with Happy New Year at the draft. Says it's very funny. All right. Kind of a light schedule last night in the NHL. Just five games. Stars and Caps. Bit of a bust. Unless you're a Stars fan. You like to see them beat up on the Washington Capitals, then congrats to you.

Sean Gentile (4:15)

Yeah. If you're, if you're. If you're a Stars fan who is like, we need to not let this losing streak go to seven games. I think we need to handle business tonight. Yeah. For everyone else, it was a bust.

Hailey Salvian (4:26)

Yeah, I thought. A bust in the sense that. I thought it would be a competitive. Me too close game. Jordan Bennington allowed seven goals against the St. Louis Blues tried to pull him against the Blackhawks last night, but their backup goalie was like, down the tunnel. Didn't have time to. To run down. And Bennington finished the game. They. So seventh spot on Jordan Bennington Blues lose the Chicago Blackhawks. And all of that allowed us to really focus in on what truly matters. And that's Sharks, Kings and Macklin. Celebrini. Celebrini. Sean had a three point night in the Sharks win over the Kings. He tied it with a minute and seven left. Then he set up the OT winner with a great play to put him and William Eklund on a two on one. All of a sudden Sharks are in a wild card spot. Sean. Kind of fun.

Sean Gentile (5:16)

It's a nice thing to wake up in the morning here on the east coast and have a Macklin Celebrini highlight pack waiting for you, baby. That's part of the fun. That's part of the fun of having relevant teams playing. 10 or 10:30 starts in Eastern time, right? I've tried to watch as much of celebrity as I can. I've said this before. The fact that he's around, the fact that Leo Carlson around is around is, is big. I just wasn't, I wasn't anticipating another, I guess foolishly I wasn't anticipating another celebrity explosion last night because man, he's, he's been incredible. And just that sequence alone where he scores that sick goal to tie it with with little more than a minute left and sets up Eklund for the, for the game winner on a two on one a bit later, man, he's, he's something else. And he's, and he's, he's appointment television. I think Pete Blackburn said on Twitter yesterday that Macklin celebrities changing bedtimes. I can't think of any of any better way to put it than that. He's, he's must see television for people who care about the sport right now.

Hailey Salvian (6:22)

There's something really fun about watching him kind of turn into a superstar in real time. Like Celebrini came in with the juice, he goes first overall. Like we know that. So I'm not suggesting he hasn't been a star, but to just watch the ways in which he's able to keep dominating and take over the league and he's on the Olympic team and I don't know, maybe I'm just an empath. But it's been very sweet to watch the Macklin Celebrini, like fully legitimate, like perhaps heart trophy candidate star turn in real time. He is on a 12 game point streak and I should say like he's no longer just the, like, hey, maybe this kid could be better than Connor Bedard or oh, him and Will Smith are really like funny and he's good and he's fun and Sharks are fun. Like he's doing the thing in a meaningful way. 12 game point streak. Three games away from tying Patrick Line A for the teenage record. He has 67 points in 43 games. He's at a 127 point pace. Are we seeing a legitimate heart trophy case from Macklin, Celebrini? Sean, like, how I. You know what? That's the question. Because we are. How high is he on your heart trophy list?

Sean Gentile (7:45)

Two. I got him. I got him at two. We'll go into the rationale there in a second, but I do want to. This always needs to be reinforced, I think. I think with celebrating year two is when it happens. That's when it happens for. For the guys, the Capital G guys. That's when it happened for. For Crosby, Art Ross, MVP. That's when it happened for McDavid, Art Ross, MVP. And what we're seeing from Celebrini, you know, halfway through the season, is that he's in contention for an Art Ross and an mvp. That's the line. That's the line between super, mega, ultra elite talents like Crosby and McDavid and Macklin, seller, Brini and everyone else. And there's. And there is a bunch of inc.

Hailey Salvian (8:34)

I think my point, what I meant was, like, he didn't come into the league with the Crosby, McDavid juice, which is what makes this, like, superstar turn even more compelling. And I don't know if it was just like the generational talent fatigue, but I don't think people were talking about him quite. Yeah, so that's what's made it more fun to be like. Like, he's doing the thing and we're watching the tide shift. Sorry to cut you off, but, like, yeah, Crosby McDavid did it in year two, but, like, they came in with different billing, so there's something almost more rewarding and, like, fun to watch celebrity do it.

Sean Gentile (9:12)

The point is, like, this is what a generational player looks like. This is how a generational player looks like in year two. He doesn't look like Connor Bedard. He doesn't look like Nico. He sure. Or whatever. It certainly doesn't look like, like Alexis La Frontier, whatever. Go back through all the. All the. All the number one picks like Haley, I think you nailed it. It's generational player air quotes fatigue. Like, we. We've used that term so much over the years that we, I think, to some extent forgot what it looks like when one actually rolls along and that's who this dude is. It was McDavid before him, and before that it was Crosby. And the dividing line is that when those guys are in their second NHL season, they're doing stuff like the stuff we've seen him do last night and for months going. Going back. So it's fun. I think it is like, it is a helpful reminder. And yeah, he maybe didn't come in with it with a degree of hype that we saw from Crosby and McDavid. It was a tick below that. But everything he's getting now is, is, is completely deserved because my man is still a teenager. It is incredible. But yeah, and he asked about the. He's. He's second. He's second. He's. I still have him like a hair behind Conor, but behind Nathan McKinnon. But I, I think he's two probably pretty decisively and he's certainly the number, the, the number two forward on, on my, on my personal ballot.

Hailey Salvian (10:40)

So our friend Dom Loose, Trishan had his awards watch come out yesterday and he said it's a two man race between McDavid and McKinnon. But Celebrini is the most intriguing name on the list. He had him a little bit lower, but when we're talking about who's most valuable to their team, Celebrini really rises up the ranks. He's the Sharks best player by a mile. Will Smith is second on the team in points. I think nine points behind are nine goals behind Celebrini. That gap is the largest of any of the other Hart Trophy candidates that we're talking about. And McKinnon would be the next closest, but the guy behind him is, you know, also on the Hart trophy candidate list. So if we're looking at like the most valuable player to a team, I think right now it's Macklin celebrini. Yes. Nathan McKinnon is like otherworldly at five on five. He's the engine for the Colorado Avalanche. Like, I would have no problem, problem voting Nathan McKinnon. I would have no problem if he wins the Heart Trophy. But if the Sharks can stay in the hunt, if they can stay in a playoff spot, I don't think there's any denying that Macklin Celebrini is the reason why that team is playing relevant hockey right now. And that's what makes him maybe a more intriguing or more fitting, like truly MVP candidate right now.

Sean Gentile (12:07)

The reason that I'm still Team McKinnon here is, is celebrating the most valuable to see him into. Like, yeah, absolutely. Like, we're not. We're not. We're not. We're not going to debate that here. I, I don't think. That being said, I think this is an important stat. Since December 1st, the Sharks are scoring 1.52 more goals per 60 with celebrating on the ice that's incredible, right? Colorado is scoring 1.53 more with McKinnon on the ice. So if you want to just break it down strictly into those terms, how much better is a team when a player is on the ice versus the alternative? Those guys are, those guys are neck and neck. And I think people are quick to just assume that Celebrini is, is miles and miles and miles better of everyone else on that team. Which is, which is true. But I think there is a certain degree of, I think McKinnon gets ding there unfairly. Now we can have the Cale Makar discussion at some point down the line, but I think there is a whole bunch of evidence over the last few years that at least as relates to those two. McKinnon, you know, is engine one versus versus Makar being engine two. So I think the gap in terms of, and it's nebulous, but the gap in terms of value to your individual team and improvement over the other players, I think it's probably a little bit closer, you know, then, then, then people are accounting for at this point.

Hailey Salvian (13:34)

But I'm not dinging, I'm not dinging McKinnon for that. He has the next largest gap between teammates.

Sean Gentile (13:41)

I think people I, I, I, yeah, I know, I, I know you're not. I, I, I know you're not. I think people are going to and I, I, I think right.

Hailey Salvian (13:50)

And I think people are going to read into what I said that I, that I am and I'm, I'm not. I like they are one and two in terms of the scoring gap. And that's always kind of been like when McKinnon has been a Hart trophy candidate. He's been for a long time. But that's always kind of been the debate. And the biggest thing for Nathan McKinnon is like look at what he's doing compared to everyone else. There's just something about a 19 year old doing that and willing a team that was the worst hockey team, you know, in the league two years ago before he entered. Like there's just something and maybe that's narrative speaker spin and maybe that's the whole like I'm an empath and we'll, that's fun. Like, like there's just something that's allowed. 19 year old literally carrying this team into a playoff spot with 0.01 like differentiation point between him and McKinnon in terms of goals per 60 on ice. Like when you read that stat, I'm like, that speaks more to celebrity to me right now than McKinnon because, like, McKinnon, and that's unfair to Nathan McKinnon. It should be more about, like, wow, the longevity that he's been able to be the most impactful player on the ice is great. But then to me, I'm like, there's a teenager keeping up with Nathan McKinnon. You know, I see that. And the narrative spin for me is like, oh, then that is more of a case for celebrity to me, because Nate's been there, done that. Like, unfortunately.

Sean Gentile (15:17)

I wonder if we're getting back with Nathan McKinnon.

Hailey Salvian (15:20)

Yeah, right. That is more to me of, like, wow.

Sean Gentile (15:23)

I agree.

Hailey Salvian (15:23)

Even though we just said he's this generational talent, but there's just some. Again, watching it all happen has been pretty incredible.

Sean Gentile (15:32)

Here's what I'll say about awards voting in general. I think I. We've made enormous strides. Hockey media has in a. In a lot of ways. In a lot of important ways. I think the discourse around the Norris Trophy is a zillion times better than it was five, 10 years ago. I've watched it happen. We're in a better spot. The discourse around the Selkie Trophy is a zillion times better than it was five or 10 or 15 years ago. I've watched it happen. I'm okay if there's a tie when we're talking about the Heart trophy or if the gap is. Is. Is relatively slim, that you go with the better story. And I. And to me, I think that's celebrity this year. So all things being equal, if McKinnon finishes with a couple more points and the underlying is. Or maybe a little bit better, I think I'll probably end up voting for Macklin Celebrini. And I think a lot of other people will, too, because that is how human brains work. We apply narratives to things. We. We appreciate the stories and the human beings that are involved with this, with this kind of thing. And also, there's voter fatigue to consider, too. People get taught. We've seen it in sports year after year.

Hailey Salvian (16:51)

Yeah.

Sean Gentile (16:51)

Across sports, people get tired of voting for the same guys other. Otherwise, Shaquille o' Neal would have won five straight in the night.

Hailey Salvian (16:59)

Kenneth still only has one heart trophy. So to have voter fatigue on a guy who's, like, lost a bunch of times maybe when he shouldn't have, like, that's when I just say this big piece about Celebrini. I'm like, Ah, but McKinnon only has one. And, like, he needs more than that. Like this, like, the best player of his generation. Like, I agree, shouldn't only have one heart trophy and there shouldn't be voter fatigue on Nathan McKinnon already. Even though I just said like, oh, Celebrini's nicer. Like we're having this conversation in real time and being like, this is the stuff that happens and this is how guys lose out on major trophies. Because you have my 30 year old women being like, he's, he's so sweet. I. Just kidding that.

Sean Gentile (17:42)

Would the main ballot please. Yeah, right. He's so nice.

Hailey Salvian (17:46)

Delete that.

Sean Gentile (17:48)

The main, the main takeaway and my main point from all of this is that there needs to be more Daylight between Nathan McKinnon and Macklin Celebrini if Nathan McKinnon wants to lock this down. Because what Celebrini is doing is so compelling on a human level, on a historic level, on a narrative level that people are going to fill in those gaps and I don't think they're going to be wrong too.

Hailey Salvian (18:11)

Yeah, dom does have McKinnon leading the way in the heart race and by quite a significant mar. Margin in terms of his overall rating, offensive rating, defensive rating. It's better than McDavid Makar, et cetera, et cetera. But yeah, Celebrini is more intriguing and that's going to, that's going to end up swinging some votes. I think it's also worth mentioning before we move on that Dom has Maurit Cider challenging calm a car for the Norris right now, just given the degree of difficulty that Cider faces combined with his defensive presence for the Red Wings. Like he's a real difference maker for that team. We don't have to talk about that now. Unfortunately, we don't have time, but maybe we can force our pal Max Boltman to join us, talk about it. He could talk about it on his Monday show if he wants, but I'd rather talk to my friend Max. So maybe we'll try to bring him in here to get a little bit more on cider.

Sean Gentile (19:01)

I got all the time in the world to talk more insider because he's, it's so fun to watch a player hit his potential and I think that's, I think that's what we're seeing there. He is the player that people, you know, argued that he could be for the last bunch of years. So I, I love it. Like, it's compelling as hell. Do I want to talk to Max about that? I guess we'll wait and see. That's, that's, that's a little bit less of a slam dunk.

Hailey Salvian (19:22)

But yeah, could be nice.

Sean Gentile (19:24)

Shout out. Shout out to More Insider. He's pretty. He's pretty good.

Hailey Salvian (19:28)

Shout out to Max. He's fine. All right, let's take a break. Peter Boz, much better than Max Boltman joins us next on the Athletic Pocket Show.

Sean Gentile (19:39)

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Hailey Salvian (21:14)

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Hailey Salvian (21:40)

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Hailey Salvian (21:48)

Hey, it's Paige Desorbo from Giggly Squad and we're partnering with Abercrombie for the launch of their new spring denim collection. This episode is sponsored by Abercrombie. Make Abercrombie denim the core of your capsule wardrobe because denim should feel like this. Abercrombie's 90s inspired fits are better than vintage and and the pair you need right now is the wide leg jean. It's lightweight, it's effortless, and elevates any outfit. Every pair available in both classic and Curve. Love the viral fit that eliminates waist gap. It's easy to find your perfect pair, so shop Abercrombie Denim in The app online and in stores. The New York Rangers have won just for their last 10 games and were dealt a pair of injury blows on Tuesday as Adam Fox will go on ltir and Igor Shusturkin was put on. I are here to break it all down is our rangers/New York New Jersey Tri State Area reporter Peter Baugh. What's up dude? Did I get the, did I get the title correct? Close New York New York guy Peter.

Sean Gentile (22:53)

Try to Tri State area snuck into that one. I don't know if that's on the official paperwork.

Peter Baugh (22:59)

Well, I don't, I don't fully have. It's close enough to whatever my, my job title is so that, that works for me. I just end up in New York.

Hailey Salvian (23:07)

He writes about the Rangers and among other things.

Peter Baugh (23:10)

Yeah. New York area hockey writer.

Sean Gentile (23:14)

Perfect.

Hailey Salvian (23:16)

All right, we can start with Shusterkin right away. I think that's the big news for the Rangers. Even though there's a ton we can get into here with you. Their number one goalie goes down against the Utah Mammoth. That is probably the player the Rangers can least afford to lose. And yes, we're talking about that within the context of Adam Fox going on ltir as well. Peter, just how devastating is this to a team that's already been struggling this season?

Peter Baugh (23:42)

Yeah, I mean Igor Shusterkin has, has had I think by his standards an okay season and yet he's one of the the four best goalies in the league and goals saved above expected. He has a 913 save percentage. He's been really, really good. This is a high level goalie and someone like you said, the Rangers just can't afford to lose. I think if it's a shorter period of time you can get by with Jonathan quick. If you're fully healthy in other areas, maybe. But the Rangers aren't even fully healthy in other areas. They're going to have to really lean on a 39 year old goalie for however long this stretches. And the injury looked bad in real time. I mean he wasn't putting any weight on that left leg. It looked like there wasn't much contact with the leg itself. I think the Rangers have, have kind of been vague on, on the updates. They put them on injured reserve rather than long term injured reserve. When I talked to Mike Sullivan in his media press conference yesterday, he didn't offer much more of a timeline beyond that. So it's unclear. It could be medium term, it could be longer term. It's just really unclear. They haven't, haven't given a Firm thing, but it's certainly a player that this team can't afford to lose and is going to make a really pivotal month much more difficult because the Rangers are in a spot right now where, if they want to make the playoffs, they can't just tread water anymore. They have to start winning games. They're in the bottom of the east in point percentage, so it's a pretty precarious position.

Sean Gentile (25:14)

Yeah. Peter, I was. I'm not dumb enough to ask if there's a timeline on Shisterkin, but is there a timeline on the timeline? Like, is there any clarity at all? Like, like, is there. Are there. Do we know if there's tests that need to be done or. Like, because it did. You said it. It looked. It looked bad. Yeah. Needed help on the ice and you off the ice. And that's always. That's always a terrible sign.

Peter Baugh (25:38)

So I'm not. I mean, the Rangers, like all NHL teams are, are somewhat vague on injuries. NHL teams don't love transparency with all Mike.

Sean Gentile (25:47)

But Mike Sullivan being vague on, on injury updates. No, no, no. I've never heard of such things.

Peter Baugh (25:53)

And the. Well, in the Rangers in particular, they love their, they love their. He's still being evaluated week to week, day to day. You know, all the, all the generic lower body, upper body, but the. I think we're. We'll just have to. To wait and see. I mean, we'll keep asking and, and hopefully we get more of a sense in the coming. In the coming days, but certainly didn't look good. And if it's any amount of extended.

Sean Gentile (26:20)

Time, I think that's. I think that's kind of the upshot for me, too, is, is. And you. You kind of led into saying this. It, it almost doesn't matter if it's two weeks or two months or whatever or whatever it is. They don't have enough time that they don't have time to waste. Right. And any, any protracted absence from. From Shusturkin is a disaster because they are. Yes, they're three points out of a playoff spot.

Peter Baugh (26:43)

Right.

Sean Gentile (26:43)

But they're blocked by five teams who've all played fewer games than them. They're, you know, points percentage. They're at the bottom of the conference. Right. So. So there's no time to waste. So in some sense, yeah, the timeline question is almost irrelevant because it's like he's. We know that he's going to be on. He's on injured reserve. That means he's going to miss time and they can't afford him to miss, you know, any and any chunks like that one.

Peter Baugh (27:10)

It's not just. It's not just him. You mentioned the Adam Fox injury, too, when you said Igor is probably their most important player. It's either Igor or Adam Fox, and now they're both out for it seems like at least a little bit. And, and Fox has had a really, a really, I think, strong season. I guess Bill Garrett might. Might disagree with that, but he, He's. He's been really good for the Rangers, and I think a huge loss we saw he missed about a month earlier this year with a shoulder injury. And he. In that stretch, the Rangers kind of like they treaded water. They did okay. I think they were maybe one game over.500 during that stretch, but you saw all the underlying numbers dip a little bit, and Igor played really well in that stretch. So if it's a prolonged Fox absence without Igor kind of covering up some of the mistakes, it's a recipe for. For a tough. A tough stretch here.

Hailey Salvian (28:10)

Well, how does this all play into the trade deadline, you know, agenda or what the Rangers end up doing? I saw our colleague Vince had a story about how they're, you know, maybe looking at a key for Sherwood acquisition, but also, do you really want to be adding at the deadline when injuries like this are affecting the equation? I'm just curious how the Shusterkin injury, but his injury along with Adam Fox maybe changes the way you're looking at what the Rangers should be doing come the trade deadline. And, you know, really, should this be a team that's selling at that time and looking down a reality that's coming a lot more quickly, which is that they're not going to be in the playoffs or competitive in the postseason this, this year.

Peter Baugh (28:59)

It's an interesting question because these were already things that, that we were starting to ask even before the injuries, because they're low in the standing. They have a lot of teams to jump. They're not playing great even when they're fully healthy. Is it really a team that. That can contend? So we were kind of starting to already pose these questions, and everything I heard from talking to people was that they're going to take their time. They have. And it's true. Like, they don't have to make a decision right now. They can wait and see how the next month goes and decide from there. And. And my sense is that's still going to be their approach, but I think this gives us a bit more of a sense of how this next month is going to go. Maybe Jonathan Quick Turns back the clock and is able to play consistently, which he's been awesome this year. To be clear, he's been a really good goalie in a number two role. I wonder about a guy who's 39 years old, how is he going to play if he's carrying a starter's workload? That's a lot to ask of someone of, of his age, even though he is one of the greatest goalies of his generation. So I think that this will crystallize a little more over the next month heading into the Olympic break. But if you ask me like this, the only ads the Rangers should be making right now are ads that can benefit them beyond this year. So maybe they, maybe they look at Kiefer Sherwood as someone who they can add and who will bring some Middlesex scoring beyond this year if they're, if they're able to work out an extension. But that's the only way a trade like that really makes sense for me. And with someone like Sherwood, who I think is a good player, it's a bit of a risky proposition because I believe his shooting percentage is really high this year and, and it feels like a candidate for regression. And he's a good player, but I don't know if he's a 34 goal scorer or whatever he's on pace for. So we'll, we'll, we'll see how that plays out. My, my sense is there's a lot of teams in on Sherwood. I think the asking price is really high, as it should be for Vancouver. I mean, they, they don't need to be in any rush to, to trade them right now. But I think that, yeah, as we get as this month keeps going, I mean, you've got to evaluate a lot of options and including selling the Sherwood.

Sean Gentile (31:18)

Possibility is wild because that's the exit. That's, I mean I, and I get it, their situation has changed pretty dramatically over the last two days or two weeks. But that's a player who's pure rental, right? Like he's a pending Ufa shooting 17%. Like, God bless him, he's actually a pretty good shooter. Like he's like historically over his career, he's, you know, pretty, pretty well into, into double digits there. But he is riding some kind of hot streak. He's 30 years old and he's going to cost a lot. You're talking first round pick plus because partially of how few, you know, relevant players, it seems like there's going to be on the block for the next, over the next two months. So the Fact that they're connected with him in any real way is just, is just wild to me. If you want to overpay for Kiefer Sherwood, if you're, if you're the Rangers and think that you're a key for Sherwood away from being a playoff relevant team again, then just sign him, Sign him in the off season. Overpay him there. Don't, don't send assets back to Vancouver for the right to overpay him for the next five years or however long his contracts. Can it be that, that, that, that just is tough to, tough to parse logically on, on, on their end of things?

Peter Baugh (32:31)

Well, I think the one thing that they maybe will have to consider when, when looking at whether it's Sherwood or some other pending UFA is if this is the best chance to, to extend someone. If this is like they've kind of saved a bunch of their cap space for this summer, they really, they have. I mean they're going to have well over 20 million in cap space this summer. So if they don't think that guys are getting to market, maybe you do have to trade just to make sure that you have the chance to, to that.

Sean Gentile (33:01)

That's crazy. That's like that, like I'm, that's a recipe. That's a recipe for mediocrity. That should, that should terrify Rangers fans. To hear honestly, the mindset that would lead them to theoretically trading for Kiefer Sherwood and then extending him like straight away is just nuts.

Peter Baugh (33:22)

Well, to me it doesn't make sense unless you're going to extend him. Like what does that do for you in the short term? It's not the difference and so I.

Sean Gentile (33:31)

Guess I'm just not foaming at the mouth. He's 30 and has scored double digit goals three times. Like, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not looking at him as the final piece for any team, let alone one that's got as many obvious issues as they do with scoring goals. Because this is a team that's second from the bottom and five on five scoring too. I don't know. I'm personally, I'm blaming you for this, Pete. Obviously.

Peter Baugh (33:55)

What do you think, Haley? What are your key for sure. With thoughts?

Hailey Salvian (33:58)

I feel like I lean more in the Sean camp of like if I'm a Rangers fan and I'm hearing and I'm watching this season and their second worst points percentage in the conference and I'm trying to get excited about a key for Sherwood being a long and short term solution I'm pretty disappointed. I think I'm a Rangers fan. I want to see them do a little bit more. If they're going to go and do something at the deadline, be because you want to go out and you want to win, you're saying like it's not a lost season, then you need to do something more than that. And then on the other side, I would say it's a lost season. We have an aging core. It's been a couple of years now of talking about this chaos and what are we going to do and should we buy, should we sell? I would either want to see them go out and do something big or go out and start accepting the fact that you probably need to retool a little bit. Nothing about trading for Kiefer Sherwood would excite me as a Rangers fan.

Peter Baugh (34:57)

And the reality is there's not a whole lot of big things they can do out there unless some, some superstar decides they want out of their current situation that we're not aware of, which probably won't happen because all of these teams are in the playoff hunt. There aren't many teams that are, are purely out of it. Everyone can convince themselves they're in this. So I mean you, you heard like the Rangers were, were interested on, in Quinn Hughes and all of that, but it didn't ultimately have the package to, to trade for him. You know, it's, it's a really tough situation and that leads to, I mean you guys talked about them at, at the deadline. They've got Artemi Panarin who's a pending free agent, who an extension hasn't come together with yet. They have Carson Susie who is I think like perpetually in kind of trade conversations from year to year because he's a decent enough depth defenseman who's on short term deals and you've got, I don't know, there's, there's a lot of, there's not a lot of, of pending UFAs, but there are a few that I think would be intriguing and would bring back returns. And I think the Rangers have to, maybe they, they can be patient, they can wait and see how the next month goes, but they're going to have to start looking at some of those.

Hailey Salvian (36:12)

Peter, one thing we were going to ask too. Obviously the Adam Fox injury is a storyline and we've discussed that. It's not super newsy because it's been about a week now, but Adam Fox was also one of the biggest Olympic snubs. You mentioned Bill Garon, maybe Bill Garon doesn't think Adam Fox is having a great season. Do you see a world in which that snub affects his relationship with Rangers management or does it seem. Seem like Fox is kind of in the camp of like this is Bill Garon's fault?

Peter Baugh (36:44)

It's a, it's a good question because Bill Garon does make the, the ultimate decision and I heard that Sullivan Drury, Chris Drury is also on, on Sullivan's or on, on Garen's staff. I, I think this was a, a garant decision from what I've heard. I think that even if it ultimately was that I can see how a player would, would be like, well, my head coach and GM was, was part of this decision making crew. Even if the buck didn't stop with them, it maybe could lead you to wonder like how, how, how much they were pushing, like how aggressive was the push to, to get him on the roster or whatnot. So I, the. All I can say is, is when I asked Adam Fox about it, he said he was like, yeah, it's, it's fine. Like I, I'm focused on winning games for the Rangers right now. Like my focus hasn't, hasn't changed in that regard. So he's a professional. Like he's one of the more mature players on, on the team and his play certainly hasn't taken a dip with, since the, the Olympic announcement. It was only a few games, but he's, he's played pretty well. So it's, but it's an interesting question because that, that is a longer term. I mean if it, if, if that relationship deteriorates, that's a big issue for the Rangers and I think they've. Mike Sullivan said he's had a number of conversations with Fox throughout this. He didn't want to get into those. Fox didn't want to get into those. But I would imagine the team had to work pretty hard to try and smooth that over.

Sean Gentile (38:23)

Well, I think Garon's reputation precedes him a little bit there too. Right. It, it helps to know Bill Garon publicly in the way that we know Bill G. Like he all, all the stuff he said post roster announcement was like, okay, this is me. This is my, like I, I get it. It's. It's my decision. If, if it's, if it's dumb, it's dumb. And I'm paraphrasing there. But, but that's, that's basically what he said. Right? So the fact that that guy in particular is at the top of the food chain when it comes to the roster decisions like that gives everybody involved some cushion and some plausible deniability. If you're Chris, if you're a jury or Sullivan, you're like, all right, this look at like Jason Robertson's not here either and he's. And he's in. Garen's wearing that one as well. Like, I think the personality at the top of the pyramid kind of helps. Theoretically. It should, it should help keep things pretty smooth between the Rangers continue tinge is there.

Peter Baugh (39:17)

I would think so, but I'm sure there's still. I mean it's, it's hard not to. I mean, I feel bad for Fox. I mean he was clearly like very, very disappointed when, when he was talking about it for the first time. And it is a decision that. Look, I know if I look at the four nations and clearly Garen and Sullivan, they really liked the team they have. They brought back all but. But Fox and Chris Kreider and then added a few more, more players. But I, I can't help but wonder if they're putting a little too much stock in a really small sample size. That was four games.

Sean Gentile (39:54)

I think that's a good thing to wonder. Yes, I am wondering the same thing, in fact.

Peter Baugh (39:59)

Yeah, it's, it's. I mean it's. I understand if, if Fox. I think there is an arrangement because of how much value Fox brings on the power play and because they have Hughes and Warensky. I think there's a world that you could pose where maybe he's not in the top six at the Olympics. But when I look at eight US Defensemen, I can't find eight better US Defensemen than Fox. And I think his versatility is a strength in the, in a depth role because he can play if Warrenski or Hughes gets hurt, he can play on the power play. He takes tough defensive matchups for the Rangers and does a good job with them. So I know he had a bit of a rough time at, at the four nations, but he's not the only one. Like Noah Hannifin didn't jump off those.

Hailey Salvian (40:49)

You know, like there was more things that went wrong than Adam Fox not looking great. And also, yeah, he's not the best American defender on the planet and he's not the top power play quarterback anymore. But like to it as you said Peter, to suggest that Adam Fox is not a top eight defender in, in the United States is a joke and it's a big brain.

Sean Gentile (41:09)

So play him in shelter. Like have him, have him as a guy in international minutes you treat as the Classic third pair, like potential power play specialists, right? Like, play him in sheltered minutes, roll him out there with the power play as needed, and bench him, you know, if you have to. The fact that that's not the logic they use is just wild to me. And it's a moot point now because he's not going to play in a game until January 31st at the earliest because he's hurt. So it's, it's just, it's a bummer of a situation all around.

Hailey Salvian (41:40)

Final thing for you, Peter, like, on all that. J.T. miller is expected to return against the Buffalo Sabers tonight. Thoughts?

Sean Gentile (41:48)

Yeah.

Hailey Salvian (41:49)

Yay.

Peter Baugh (41:50)

They need, they need, they need something. Like they haven't been playing well lately. And I think one of the interesting things is the amount of games I don't have the exact number in front of me, but so many of their wins over the past month or whatever have been in overtime. Like, they're not winning in regulation. They're having to kind of. Even when they do win, it's, it's often an exciting fashion because overtime is, is fun, but it's not in convincing fashion. And that has to be a concern for the Rangers. I think goal differential has to be something that you look at as, as. All right, maybe, maybe we're hanging in there, but it's not, it's not exactly screaming powerhouse by any means. So a lot of big decisions had. I, I will ask you guys, if you were, if you were running the Rangers, like, say they start to sell off, say, say they move on Panarin, say they, they trade. Susie, would you look at any of the players who are under longer term contract? Would you look at a Vincent Trocheck or someone like that and see if.

Sean Gentile (42:56)

Yeah, trade. Trade whoever you can. If you start trading Panera and outside of Fox and just Turkin, I would, I would trade. Trade whatever is not nailed down because then it, because then it's just like I, I love, I love Vince Trocheck, Pittsburgh hockey legend. He's gonna turn 33 at some point in the next few months. Like, I think the clock, the clock starts as soon as you, as soon as you move on from Panarin. That to me is like the Rubicon moment for them. So we'll see. It's going to be, it's going to be fascinating. They're. They're a mess.

Peter Baugh (43:30)

Yeah. Trocheck for me is an interesting one because I think he would have so much value on the market. We've seen, we've seen what centers get. We saw Brock Nelson last year around the same age without term. Like Church.

Sean Gentile (43:42)

Olympian. Olympian Vince Cho. Check. Yes, you can. You can.

Peter Baugh (43:46)

Olympian Vince. Check. Comes with term. So I, yeah, if they're gonna. I look at this team as one that needs to get younger. They have J.T. miller who's 32, Trocheck is 32, Mika Zabanajad's 32, Panarin's 34, Gavrikov's 30, Shusterkin 30. Like they're all edging into a certain territory and especially some of those forwards. You have to wonder if their best hockey is. Is behind them. And so maybe you start to flip the page, but I don't think this is a team that's in any. I don't know. I don't know if James Dolan is going to be sending out another letter anytime soon saying they're going to rebuild. Like that's not really the.

Hailey Salvian (44:25)

Yeah, as long as you have Adam Fox and Igor Shusterkin, you're not going to be in a full on rebuild. They're both too good for the Rangers to be too bad. The trick is going to be to how to fill out the rest of the roster and build something more competitive with longevity around them. So we'll see if the Rangers can do that. Pete, we've got a jet. Thanks for doing this. Hey, the PWHL is going to play at Madison Square Garden, by the way. Maybe I'll see you there in April. Oh, just announced.

Peter Baugh (44:51)

I would love that.

Hailey Salvian (44:52)

Just announced. You can read more on the athletic.com First Women's Pro Hockey game with fans at the Garden at msg.

Peter Baugh (45:01)

Well, maybe I should get a credential and we can, we can cover it together.

Sean Gentile (45:05)

No, no. Go as a. Go as a spectator. Enjoy yourself. Take. Take the night off. Let Haley. Let, Let Haley handle the business and.

Peter Baugh (45:13)

Well, as long as I get to say hi to Haley then, then I'll.

Hailey Salvian (45:15)

Be fine down and say hi to the. To the fans. I'm sure that's what they're all.

Peter Baugh (45:20)

Yeah, exactly.

Hailey Salvian (45:21)

Not Hillary night.

Peter Baugh (45:23)

Yeah, we'll be clamoring.

Hailey Salvian (45:26)

All right, thanks so much, dude. We're going to take one more break here and we'll final segment of the Athletic Hockey Show. We're going to talk a little bit more about the Team Canada women's hockey roster that's coming out on Friday. We'll tee that up. Coming up next.

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Hailey Salvian (47:34)

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Sean Gentile (48:56)

Yeah, right. Thank you. I was, I was waiting for that. I just feel like the roster has been pretty static for the last couple years. Obviously we know that Marie Fleet Plan is going to be at the top. We know that Andre Na Debian is going to be the goaltender and we know that we're not a fan. You know, like we, we know what the top of this roster is going to look like. I feel like we also to some extent know what the middle and bottom of it is going to look like as well. There hasn't been a ton of change, so I'm wondering if there's going to be any kind of meaningful shuffling throughout even relative to what we saw at Worlds.

Hailey Salvian (49:27)

So I think obviously that's the big question that I'm trying to suss out. And honestly, like, I've been a little bit torn between, like, could we see major changes from Team Canada after the Rivalry series loss? Like there was a, they lost, you know, a 10, there was a 10 goal game. They were outscored. I think it was like 27 or 24, seven. You know, it was a really bad sweep at Rivalry Series. Team USA also won the last World championships. They're on a five or six game win streak against Team Canada right now. So yeah, that's the question. Is the Canadian brain trust going to take that and say we need to make some big changes? And I think we could see some around the edges, but I just don't see a world in which Team Canada is going to like rebuild its roster and make meaningful changes at the top of the lineup this close to an Olympic year. The blue line has struggled and there's this kind of back and forth in my mind internally of like, do you switch it up completely or do you just try to go back to what you know and hope they figure it out? Because like, is adding new players who might not know your system or might not be ready for the Olympics actually the way to win the Olympics? Or do you Just hope that the players who've been there and done that figure it out. And I've been leaning to the latter. That said, I do think we'll see some first time Olympians. Like, I've had Sophie Jakes written in my roster. If she hasn't done enough to be there, I don't totally know what they're looking for. She's one of the best offensive defenders in the pwhl. She was one of the few bright spots in one of the big rivalry series losses. So Sophie Jakes is someone to me that I could see making a jump. Darrell Watts is someone who's gonna make the jump to make the Olympic team too. And that's something where I challenge people who say like, we need change, we need new face. Like, well, we have had them. Like Darrell Watts made her first national team a year ago. Sophie Jakes made her first national team a year ago. Team Canada has been moving new pieces in. It's just when we're talking about the young college kids to go up against Team USA's young college kids like Caitlin Kramer, Chloe Primarino, they haven't necessarily been productive. Even though there's a good chance Chloe Primarino is on the Olympic roster. I would like to see Caitlin Kramer on the Olympic roster, but I don't know if they've done enough to beat out someone like Natalie Spooner or a Jocelyn Larocque to get those final spots.

Sean Gentile (52:12)

Yeah, you mentioned Watson Primarino. Those are. I was going to ask a couple of follow ups about both of those players. I think Darrell Watts has been really one of the best players in the PW since the league started. Right. Like she's, she's been a player who's, you know, used the opportunity that she's gotten playing with Ottawa and then and now with Toronto to really put herself not just on the fringe of the roster conversation. Obviously she was, she was at Worlds. I mean, she looks like, you know, a high end piece and I think the fact that she's, you know, push her way up, I think in the food chain is really interesting because this is a player who was on the outside looking in for several years as it related to the, as related to the national team and she's, you know, kind of made her case undeniable over the last two plus seasons in the P dub. I think that's fascinating, you know, in terms of big picture stuff because this is an opportunity that for a player like her five years ago wouldn't have existed.

Hailey Salvian (53:13)

Yeah, I mean, I don't know if Everyone knows this, but it's like something that I always bring up when I'm talking about Daryl Watts. Only Mary Philippe Poulin, the best player on the planet, has more points than Daryl Watts in the PWHL since the league started. Yeah. Crazy. And she is going to likely be the left winger beside Poulin and Laura Stacy, who make up, you know, two thirds of the top line in Montreal. Part of me, really, I feel like they ran out of time. I would have loved to see Abby Rock just get a Canadian passport because that line's been really good in Montreal. Just switch it up, we'll go cut you. No, no allegiances. Come on over. Abby Rock, you are now a Canadian national team member, but yet feel like.

Sean Gentile (54:00)

Poulain could maybe pull some strings with the Canadian government to issue. To issue a passport to her linemate. I feel like she's got some. She's got some sway. She can make that happen.

Hailey Salvian (54:09)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Would have been. Would have been cool. But I think Daryl Watts has gone from, like, over two Olympic cycles. Has gone from, you know, what does this girl have to do to make it? And, like, retiring post college because she was like, I'm just going to get a job. Like, one of the best, most electric.

Sean Gentile (54:28)

26 years old, by the way. Still. But she's still. She's still. That's what I'm saying.

Hailey Salvian (54:32)

When people talk about, like, Canada, we need youth or we need new faces, like, we do have them. They just don't look like Caroline Harvey and Abby Murphy. And like, some of that is, oh, well, the young layer pools better. Like, it's okay to admit that. Are there issues, like, is there a problem with Canada not having, like, a KK Harvey or an Abby Murphy and a Layla Edwards and a Cursing Sims coming up through the ranks? Like, sure. That's more of a developmental question. That's more of, like a big picture what's going on in Canadian hockey? Question, not so much. Why is Troy Ryan not taking Canada's KK Harvey? She doesn't exist yet.

Sean Gentile (55:13)

Doesn't exist.

Hailey Salvian (55:13)

Might be Chloe Primarino.

Sean Gentile (55:15)

Fine by me. Fine.

Hailey Salvian (55:16)

It might be Chloe Primarino. She is going to end. I believe that Chloe will end up being Canada's answer to kk, but she hasn't been able to produce and dominate from the offensive blue line the way that Harvey has at the international level. And that's okay because she's a child, you know, like, Caroline Harvey made the Olympic team in 2022 and didn't touch the ice in the gold medal game for more than 10 seconds. And now look at her. She's one of the best players in the world. So will Chloe be on the team? Maybe. If she's there, is she going to dominate? Probably not, but in four years, Canada's going to be okay. So that's kind of where I'm at, is Canada's going to inject some young players, new faces. Darrell Watts will certainly be one of them. I think we could see a Julia Gosling on this roster. She's been on Team Canada, but she hasn't made an Olympic team. She's looked great for the Seattle Torrent in the pwhl. I think Sophie Jake should be on this team. So, yeah, I think there'll be. There'll be some good young, newer players, but I'm still a little torn on, like. Do you bring Natalie Spooner? What's going on with Sarah Nurse? She's injured. She hasn't played. To me, I'm bringing Sarah Nurse to the Olympics because the last Olympics, she was injured, and then she came in and set an Olympic record in scoring. So unless it's the first day of the tournament and she's on crutches or in a cast or whatever, I'm bringing Sarah Nurse to the Olympics. So I think we'll see a lot of returning players. And that's okay because this team won the last gold medal. And I always try to remind people, like, the American team is younger and faster, and that's worked out well, but they had to rebuild because they lost three straight major international tournaments to Canada, and Canada has not yet been in that position. That's my scene. And yes.

Sean Gentile (57:05)

Oh, that was a lot of.

Hailey Salvian (57:07)

That position.

Sean Gentile (57:07)

That was a lot of information to take in. Okay.

Hailey Salvian (57:10)

The timing might stink. The timing might stink. Like, oop. Now, maybe we aren't looking as good, but it's fine. It's a issue for 2030.

Sean Gentile (57:23)

Sorry. I zoned out and bought a Caroline Harvey jersey. Well, while you were talking about that, I'm gonna. I'm gonna keep it real simple. Not bad.

Hailey Salvian (57:31)

She's unreal. Don't overthink it. I'm surprised you didn't go for Abby Murphy. I thought she was your favorite player.

Sean Gentile (57:36)

I already. I already have one.

Hailey Salvian (57:39)

That's fair enough. Caroline Harvey, by the way, leads all players in scoring in the ncaa. She's a defender again. I should remind you, she's sick. Should probably win a Patty Cass. All right, I guess we'll tee up the men's hockey for. For the day on Thursday.

Sean Gentile (57:56)

That's. Yes, we're gonna have more than enough of that. We don't need to.

Hailey Salvian (58:01)

I'm not gonna talk about.

Sean Gentile (58:02)

I thought you're talking about the Olympics roster. Like, I don't.

Hailey Salvian (58:04)

Oh, my God, no.

Sean Gentile (58:05)

Get us out of here.

Hailey Salvian (58:06)

Tell everyone there's 12 NHL games on tap tonight. If you care. I'm like, but you can also just sit at home and put out cookies for the Poulin Ferry and hope for big things for Team Canada's women's Olympic roster. I guess you should put out cookies for, like, Troy and Gina, not Pooh. Yeah, it's fine. It didn't work. Thanks, everyone, for listening. What would you put out cookies for?

Sean Gentile (58:32)

You put out cookies for Santa, you put out teeth for the tooth fairy, and you don't put out any for Marie Philippe, Land or tray that I don't know. You lost me on the analogy. Let's just go.

Hailey Salvian (58:46)

It's like wishing for good juju.

Sean Gentile (58:50)

It's a stretch.

Hailey Salvian (58:52)

Yeah, I didn't. It didn't work. It's fine. Thanks, everyone for listening to the show, though. I hope you made it this far. You did. I don't want to hear any critiques about that. Max, Laz and Jesse have the next show on Monday. Sean and I return on Thursday. Maybe we'll bring Max along. Or just Dom. Should probably talk to Dom at some point.

Sean Gentile (59:14)

Bye.

Hailey Salvian (59:15)

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Sean Gentile (60:33)

Yeah, they do here.

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And it sounds pretty good, right?

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