Is Nathan MacKinnon better than Connor McDavid?

Summary

The Athletic Hockey Show — "Is Nathan MacKinnon better than Connor McDavid?"

Date: December 3, 2025
Hosts: Sean Gentili, Sean McIndew, Frankie Corrado

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Athletic Hockey Show dives into the red-hot debate circulating the NHL: Has Nathan MacKinnon surpassed Connor McDavid as the best player in hockey—at least, right now? The panel weighs current form, career legacy, team situations, playing styles, and how the conversation reflects changing perceptions within the league. The second major topic is a look at the Minnesota Wild's resurgence behind young goalie Jesper Wallstedt and how goaltending (or lack thereof) is shaping teams' fortunes, especially Winnipeg and Edmonton. The hosts wrap up with Olympic hockey talk and a grab bag of fun NHL observations.

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Main Topics & Key Insights

1. Setting the Scene: The NHL's Shifting Landscape

[02:22 - 03:28]

• Sean Gentili introduces a quirky stat: Only one team in each of the Atlantic and Pacific divisions (Tampa and Anaheim) have a positive goal differential, a rarity last seen in 1998-99.
• The main storyline: The best player in the league isn't a foregone conclusion—MacKinnon vs. McDavid is now a fair debate.

2. The Big Question: MacKinnon or McDavid?

[03:28 – 15:05]

Framing the Debate

• Frankie Corrado asks if we're talking about “one game right now” or “starting a franchise.” The focus is: Who’s the best player today, in this moment?

Case for Nathan MacKinnon (Presently)

(Frankie Corrado, 05:22)

“29. Nathan MacKinnon right now, this moment, this snapshot in time, is the best player in the league. I think Connor McDavid overall is the greatest player of his generation... But this is one of those times where we're seeing a bit of a dip from Connor McDavid... and Nathan McKinnon is just absolutely on fire.”

(Sean McIndew, 06:06)

• Runs through statistical dominance: five goals in four games, led the league in even-strength points in November, Avs outscoring opponents 37-9 with MacKinnon on ice.
• Emphasizes MacKinnon’s competitiveness, referencing his postgame “bored and mean” demeanor:

  "He was bored, but he was also mean... I need one dude for one game, yeah, I'll take the dog." [07:16]

Acknowledging McDavid’s Standard

(Sean Gentili, 07:41)

• Recognizes how unusual the debate feels after years of McDavid’s dominance.
• Notes McDavid’s recent heavy playoff workload and team circumstances might have opened the door for MacKinnon.

(Frankie Corrado, 09:29)

“How great is Connor McDavid that the fact that the second-best player in the world is having an all-time heater... and that is enough for us to go, maybe just in this snapshot of time, number two has surpassed number one.”

Skills Comparison

• Goal Scoring:
  (Sean Gentili, 10:39)

  “Nathan McKinnon is absolutely the better and more potent goal scorer... much more willing to shoot in more dangerous areas and be more of a shot threat than McDavid.”

Psychological Edge & Rivalry

• The panel jokes about MacKinnon's (fictionalized) personal motivation to beat out even unexpected challengers like Morgan Geeky:
  Sean Gentili (12:11):

  "You think Nathan McKinnon cares about Morgan Geeky? He probably looks at that and says, dude, you're nowhere near me. And I am going to blow away from you. Not annoyed. Pissed that Morgan Geeky would even enter the conversation, my friend."

Playoff/Rings Culture

(Sean McIndew, 13:11):

"Connor McDavid was on the roster in a must-win game... and his team lost. If we want to make that the differentiation point for this discussion, I'll take the dude who won the Cup..."

• Rebuttal (Frankie Corrado, 14:09): McDavid also won the Four Nations gold, scoring the OT-winner—with MacKinnon on the same team.

Olympic Implications

(Sean Gentili, 14:40):

• The Olympics may clarify who the hockey world, including rival coaches, sees as the “true” top threat based on matchups and ice-time decisions.

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3. Goaltending Focus: The Minnesota Wild & Jesper Wallstedt

[20:26 – 29:12]

Wallstedt’s Emergence

• Minnesota’s Jesper Wallstedt records another shutout versus Edmonton, now sporting a 7-game win streak, .944 save percentage, and five shutouts in just 15 career appearances.

Sean McIndew (21:26):

"This is a team that I watched in October. They looked as bad as anybody could look... In comes Wallstedt, now they're 12-1-2."

• Second-best duo with Philip Gustafson? Gentili and Corrado both heap praise.

Edmonton's Draft Misses

• The sting for Edmonton: they passed on drafting Wallstedt in 2021, took Xavier Bourgault, then watched Dallas pick Wyatt Johnston immediately after—compounding the pain.

Comparative Development

Frankie Corrado, 25:14:

"Two months ago, we would have looked at that pick and said what a bust that's turned out to be... this was supposed to be Gustafson's team. No... he's ready to be Terry Sawchuk right now."

Calder Trophy Race

• Can Wallstedt challenge frontrunner Matthew Savoie (Schaefer) for rookie of the year?
• If Wallstedt keeps starting and Minnesota’s success continues, he could be a serious contender.

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4. Winnipeg Jets: The Impact of Losing a Star Goalie

[29:39 – 37:28]

• Without Connor Hellebuyck, the Jets are floundering, sitting outside the playoffs over the last 13 games.
• The panel highlights how much a top goalie can “mask” a team’s flaws.
  Frankie Corrado, 32:02:

"You're nervous, you're tentative, you feel like, oh, I can't make that play because... it's going to go in and I'm going back to the bench with a minus."

• The current backup isn’t terrible—but “average” is a huge drop for a team used to elite goaltending.

Playoff Picture

• The Jets’ odds look tough—the Central Division is too deep to allow a prolonged slump without falling out of contention for home ice.

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5. Olympic Hockey, Arena Woes, and Roster "Conspiracies"

[40:41 – 43:05]

Olympic Arena Issues

• The Olympic rink might be four feet shorter than standard, and the venue is reportedly far from finished.
  Sean McIndew, 42:11:

“One source... said organizers needed ‘a big bomb, not just a fire, to get their asses in gear on the construction.’”

Roster Building Paranoia

• Sean jokes the small ice is a conspiracy for Team Canada to justify bringing Tom Wilson (tough, physical) over Bedard (flashier, skill).

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6. Around the NHL: Fun Observations & Storylines

[43:57 – end]

• Rangers vs. Red Wings color-on-color jersey game was a hit, with the league likely to replicate it.
• Bonus info: McDavid coming to Pittsburgh could be the time he breaks a points record—expect Sean McIndew to be in the press box as the "target" of a McDavid celebration.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Frankie Corrado (05:22):

  “Nathan McKinnon right now, this moment… is the best player in the league. … One game to play tonight, Nathan McKinnon is my number one center over Connor McDavid.”

• Sean McIndew (06:06):

  "We're watching peak Nathan MacKinnon right now... Avs are outscoring the other team 37 to 9 when he's on the ice this season. That's what tips it over for me."

• Sean Gentili (10:39):

  "Nathan McKinnon is absolutely the better and more potent goal scorer… [he’s] much more willing to shoot in more dangerous areas and be more of a shot threat than McDavid.”

• Frankie Corrado (09:29):

  “How great is Connor McDavid that the fact that the second-best player in the world is having an all-time heater... and that is enough for us to go, maybe... number two has surpassed number one.”

• Sean Gentili on the Olympics (15:05):

  “When we get to the Olympics, it will be telling how other teams and other coaching staffs view this... There’s going to be a matchup and there’s going to be an ice time allocation that will tell us what’s what.”

• Sean McIndew, on Minnesota (21:26):

  “This is a team that I watched in October. They looked as bad as anybody could look... In comes Wallstedt, now they're 12-1-2."

• Frankie Corrado, on Wallstedt (25:14):

  “...supposed to be Gustafson’s team... No... he’s ready to be Terry Sawchuk right now.”

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Timestamps of Key Segments

• [02:22] – Introduction to the McDavid vs. MacKinnon debate and the state of the NHL
• [05:22] – Who is the best player today? Panel’s initial picks
• [06:06] – MacKinnon’s current stats and what makes him different
• [09:29] – Appreciating McDavid's usual dominance and what it means for the rivalry
• [10:39] – MacKinnon as the better goal-scorer (right now)
• [11:42-12:43] – Humor at Morgan Geeky’s expense, MacKinnon’s drive
• [13:11] – Playoff “rings culture” enters the debate
• [14:40] – Olympic implications for best player perception
• [20:26] – Jesper Wallstedt and Minnesota Wild’s hot streak
• [21:26] – Wallstedt’s stats and impact
• [25:14] – Goalie development timeline, Wallstedt’s breakout
• [29:39] – Winnipeg’s struggles post-Hellebuyck
• [36:18] – Playoff race implications in the Central Division
• [40:41] – Olympic rink construction chaos
• [43:57] – NHL considering more color-on-color jersey games

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Tone & Style

The episode is brisk, lively, and replete with sharp, witty banter. The hosts encourage debate and poke fun at league tropes (“rings culture,” American checking lines), but back up arguments with stats and league context. Occasional playful jabs—both at players and themselves—keep the episode entertaining.

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Summary for the Uninitiated

This episode provides a timely, in-depth look at how the "best player in the NHL" question is no longer rhetorical thanks to MacKinnon's historic heater and slight dip in McDavid's form. The debate is nuanced, respecting McDavid’s overall generational status while spotlighting why MacKinnon might be tops right now. Shifting to the league’s heavyweights in goal, the show demonstrates how Minnesota and Winnipeg’s fates are almost entirely hinged on their netminders’ fortunes. The hosts handle these complex, evolving storylines with their trademark blend of humor, stats, and accessible explanations—making it a perfect listen for anyone eager to keep up with the season’s defining narratives.

Transcript

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[Sean Gentili]

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[Sean McIndew]

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[Sean Gentili]

This is the athletic hockey show.

What up?

[Sean McIndew]

What up? It's the Athletic Hockey Show, Wednesday edition. It's December 3, 2025. I'm Sean Gentili here with Sean Mackin doing Frankie Corrado. Fellas, all business today. How are we doing?

[Sean Gentili]

All business. What's going on? It's been a weird year. I got a weird stat for you. I don't know why I'm fascinated by these types of things, but I just am. So you have to bear with me. Here it is. I tweeted about it in case you missed it. But through December 2nd, I have alerts.

[Sean McIndew]

Set up on your tweets too.

[Sean Gentili]

I find that hard to believe. There's nothing noteworthy coming through that Twitter account through December 2nd. So yesterday there was one team in the Atlantic with a positive goal differential. That was Tampa. One team in the Pacific with a positive goal differential. And that Was Anaheim the last time two divisions only had one team with a positive goal differential through December 2nd was 1998. 1999, it was Carolina in the Southeast, or the Southeast, as they used to call it, and Edmonton in the Northwest. That's weird. The other thing that's weird is that we're having conversations about who's the best player in the game right now. Is it Connor McDavid? Is it Nathan McKinnon? It's up for debate at least as far as who is the best player right now today.

[Sean McIndew]

See, Frankie, this is why I love you. You gave us the title for this episode right off the bat. That's. That's the job. We. We have. We have a hook. Thank you for providing it, buddy.

[Sean Gentili]

I have to give a lot of credit to the quiz master at tsn. As you guys know, the quiz is Canada's favorite game show, and he is behind everything that happens on it, and he doesn just slap the questions together. It's like all week of tinkering and, you know, testing out these questions, calling people really, quite honestly, badgering people. And I know he's been sitting on this one for a while, so I talked to him this morning. I took a 6am flight home from Montreal, called. He called me actually, in the car at 7:45, and we talked about it. So I think if everyone's talking about it, we can float the question out there to you guys. Here's the question from the quiz last night. Has Four Nations MVP and current NHL scoring leader Nathan McKinnon surpassed, equaled, or remains slightly behind Connor McDavid as the preeminent player on the planet? Sean. And Sean, the floor is yours.

[Frankie Corrado]

I love how you explain how it's like a week of work that goes into that question, and then we just steal it.

[Sean McIndew]

How many people did he have to call for that?

[Frankie Corrado]

Make it our shot?

[Sean Gentili]

I.

[Frankie Corrado]

You know what? I'm willing to bet that that slightly in the third option was a few phone calls. Like, I feel like that word was negotiated. So are we talking right now, like, one game to play for everything you own tonight, or are we talking like, there's a draft right now and we got to pick players?

[Sean Gentili]

Let's do it this way. If. If you had to rank based on, you know, who is the best player right now? Not who would you take to start your franchise. Not who would you draft in a draft for your fantasy team? Who's been the best player 1 through 10, 1 through 20? Right now, is it number 29 or number 97?

[Frankie Corrado]

29. Nathan McKinnon Right now, this moment, this snapshot in time, is the best player in the league. I, I think Connor McDavid overall is the greatest player of his generation. He has been the best player long before this. He will be the best player again and will probably hold that title for a long time. But this is one of those times where we're seeing a bit of a dip from Connor McDavid. Like he seems like he's just a generational superstar instead of an immortal all time elite this year. And Nathan McKinnon is just absolutely on fire. So right now, one game to play tonight. Nathan McKinnon is my number one center over Connor McDavid.

[Sean McIndew]

We're watching peak Nathan McKinnon right now. I think, I think I'm okay saying like the stats are just, are just overwhelming. Five goals in his last four. He had two last night, three. One win over Vancouver.

Led the league in even strength points in November. Tied for first in points, third in goals, third and even strength goals. Like he's, he's got points in 11 of his of his last 13. And this is the thing that, that struck me and this is something from our old buddy Corey Mazzack. The ABs are outscoring the other team 37 to 9 when he's on the ice this season. That's what tips it over. You know, if we want to just limit the discussion to is this the best version of McKinnon we've seen? I think there's a fair argument for that. But if you want to frame it as do we want him versus McDavid, it's I think right now, until McDavid finds the seventh gear that we've seen from him so many times over, over the last however many years. I think it's, I think it's McKinnon. And I don't know if it's like, I'm surprised to hear myself say that on some end. I don't know if it's like an aesthetic thing or what, but like what tips. What tips me over, I think into onto team. McKinnon on this is just, it's stuff like the media session last night after beating Vancouver. He's like, it was just kind of a boring game. A lot of whistles, a lot of ice and guys, he was completely. He was bored, but he was also mean. And I think that's the kind of stuff where I'm like, okay, we. I need one dude for, for one game. Yeah, I'll take, I'll take the dog.

[Sean Gentili]

My answer, if I was on the quiz last night, but we're doing the quiz this morning. So my answer is he has surpassed for the time being. And it should be okay for us to have conversations about Connor McDavid and Nathan McKinnon and realize that just because McDavid is in the league every single year, he doesn't have to be named the best player at the given time. Like, Nathan McKinnon has clearly closed the gap. But it does feel weird. Like, truthfully, it feels weird that we're having this conversation because it's always just been McDavid is standalone the best, and everyone is kind of falling in line after that.

So it does feel a little odd. But at the same time, I can't help but wonder if the timing of things helps facilitate this for Nathan McKinnon. Like Colorado, since winning their Stanley cup, they haven't been going deep into the playoffs, whereas the Edmonton Oilers are going deep. They're one win away from a Stanley cup two years ago. They're two wins away last year. Those are a lot of hard miles, not to mention the hill that the team had to climb both seasons with slow starts. So you're trying to leapfrog everyone and go on heaters. And it's not like, it's not like McDavid is surrounded with the same type of team this year anyways that McKinnon has in Colorado. So it always feels like it really falls on McDavid's shoulders. So the fact that, like, there's a lot of work for him, specifically the mileage the games played recently, probably helps Nathan McKinnon close the gap. And now we're looking at it, saying it's fair to say that Nathan McKinnon is the best player in the NHL right now. But I never would have predicted that we'd be having this conversation December 3.

[Frankie Corrado]

2025, and how, I mean, this could be interpreted as us, you know, taking a shot at McDavid or the start that he's having. It's not that, like, how, how great is Connor McDavid that the fact that the second best player in, in the world is having an all time heater is having maybe the best year of his career? And that is enough for us to go maybe, maybe just in this, this snapshot of time, number two has surpassed number one. That's how far ahead Connor McDavid normally is when everybody is playing at their peak level, which he, he hasn't been so far this year. Whether it's fatigue, whether it's, it's the distractions with the contract and whether it's just the normal ebb and flow of how pro sports and the NHL in particular works, this is what was needed to open the door a crack for the. Again, the second best player in the world having the season of his career to maybe just for a moment get, get a nose ahead of Conor David.

[Sean Gentili]

One of the, one of the elements for me anyways, that that helps nudge this in Nathan McKinnon's direction. And it. This is another thing that sounds weird to say because Connor McDavid has scored 64 goals in a season in this league before. But Nathan McKinnon is absolutely the better and more potent goal scorer. Like, he's got 22 this season. You know, he's had 51, he's had 42. Call it a down year last year for McKinnon having 32, which we've certainly seen from Connor McDavid in the past. But like he is much more willing to shoot in more dangerous areas and be more of a shot threat than McDavid. It's just the reality. McDavid wants to make the pass that leads to an empty net goal or almost essentially like pass the puck into a net after deeking out the goaltender. But McKinnon has this ferocity at which he is attacking the net. And for me anyways, like, the goal scoring sounds weird to say. Guy scored 64 goals. Usually you would say that guy's the better goal scorer, but today Nathan McKinnon is the better goal scorer.

[Sean McIndew]

Do you guys feel like he maybe got annoyed that he gave up the goal scoring lead for a little bit? Like he, like Morgan Geeky ties him. He comes out and scores two goals last night. It's similar to what we saw from him last week. Whenever some of the young guys were catching up to him in the, in the point chase, it's like, okay, nevermind. I'm gonna, I'm gonna handle business here. Not annoying. I know, I know. It's. I know it's decept. Not annoyed. What? Okay, what motivated like, pissed that a.

[Sean Gentili]

Guy named Morgan Geeky was in the same category as him. Like, you don't think Nathan McKinnon looks at that and says, dude, no disrespect to Morgan Geeky. He's a really good player and he's having a hell of a year. But you think Nathan McKinnon cares about Morgan Geeke? He probably looks at that and says, dude, you're nowhere near me.

[Sean McIndew]

We got.

[Sean Gentili]

And I am going to blow away from you. Not annoyed. Pissed that Morgan Geeky would even Enter the conversation, my friend.

[Frankie Corrado]

I'm not getting passed by some guy named after a diary of a wimpy kid character.

[Sean Gentili]

Yeah, I'm not getting passed by a guy that didn't get qualified by the Seattle Kraken. No disrespect again. No disrespect again. But.

[Sean McIndew]

Morgan geeky tied for the league lead and even strength goals last year. Excuse you. This is his second second randomly really good season. He's had two now.

[Sean Gentili]

No, I'm playing the role. I'm playing the role of Nathan McKinnon. This not me talking. I'm talking like McKinnon right now.

[Sean McIndew]

See.

The other, the, the other thing I wanted, I wanted to bring up too. And I, I, we should be able to have this discussion without turning in, turning it into a slag fest on Conor McDavid, because that's borderline impossible and crazy. But I will say, I will say if we want to frame this in the Mac and do way and if we want to say, like, who is the guy you want on your roster in a must win game? Connor McDavid was on the roster in a must win game. He was on the roster in a game seven of a Stanley cup final and his team lost. And if we want to make that the differentiation point for this discussion, I'll take the dude who won the cup because it feels like they're close enough right now. Maybe not last year, maybe not two years from now, but right now I think it's okay to pick hairs, right? Or split hairs and be kind of pedantic about stuff. And if it turns into rings discussion and rings culture stuff, like, so be it. I'm okay taking the guy that has one if this is what it comes down to.

[Frankie Corrado]

Okay, counterpoint. Connor McDavid played in another game this year where it was one game for everything and it was a gold medal game at the four nations.

[Sean McIndew]

That's true.

[Frankie Corrado]

And he scored the overtime winner. Now, Nathan McKinnon was on that team, so, you know, he gets, he gets a win as well. But I, you got to consider the.

[Sean McIndew]

Competition in that game too.

[Frankie Corrado]

It's tough. I can't believe Sean losers is called Connor McDavid a choking dog.

[Sean McIndew]

He's a choking, he's a choke artist.

[Frankie Corrado]

Obviously. Wild take. Wow.

[Sean Gentili]

Crazy, crazy stuff. But you know what's going to be telling is now with the Olympics coming up, we're having the conversation, everyone's having this conversation. It's fair to have this conversation at this point because of how well Nathan McKinnon has played. But when we get to the Olympics, it will be telling how other teams and other coaching staffs view this, especially if McDavid and McKinnon are playing on different lines.

[Sean McIndew]

Right.

[Sean Gentili]

Like, what are the Americans going to do if they have last change? Who gets the quote, unquote, hard matchup? Like, yeah, there's a lot of good players that goes without saying. There's a lot of good players that you could play against either of those guys and be, you know, comfortable with. But there's going to be a matchup that will tell us they're going to. There's going to be a matchup and there's going to be an ice time allocation that will tell us what's what right now in regards to, you know, both of these guys and who is, I guess, being taken as the more dangerous threat at the given moment. I think that's going to be a fascinating storyline at the Olympics.

[Frankie Corrado]

The good news for Team USA is apparently they're going to bring three checking lines of just grizzled veterans. So they. It won't be an issue. They'll be fine. And then three guys who can score.

[Sean McIndew]

That's.

[Frankie Corrado]

That's probably not that important.

[Sean Gentili]

Yeah, just quickly on that. I need to jump right over the top rope on that. Real quickly. Is the Americans forever. The Americans forever had this, like, M.O. that, like, we're not as skilled, but we are going to forecheck and we're going to run you out of the building and we're going to check, check, check. And now American hockey has exploded with all these superstar skilled players. And you know what the Americans are going to say? Nah, check, check, check. We're good. We're just going to check, check, check. Just like the old days.

[Sean McIndew]

This is definitely. This has definitely worked, right? We've played our way to so many silver and bronze medals since 1980. It's fine. The Robertson stuff is just. I know we talked about that last week, but it's funny to see how that's hung around with the interview that Garen gave to Pierre LeBrun, something we talked about on the last show. Like, I do appreciate Bill Guerin for giving us something to talk about and something to watch for the next two months, because people aren't forgetting it and nor should they because Jason Robertson is going to be sitting at home eating chips whenever, when, whenever. The Americans are one goal down in the third period of the gold medal game or whatever.

[Frankie Corrado]

He had his chance last night against Mike Sullivan to show what he could do. No points.

[Sean McIndew]

We need to. Well, you know what?

[Frankie Corrado]

That's the level that's such a disappointing performance. That, that's, that's the sort of thing Gentile would call pulling a McDavid. Just.

[Sean McIndew]

See if the Rangers, if the Rangers would have played that game at the Garden. Like if that game was not in Dallas, it would have been hat trick city for Robertson. So you can thank the schedule makers for whenever Robertson's left on, left off the roster. All right, boys, we're going to take a little break. We're going to come back, we're going to talk Minnesota Wild, Winnipeg Jets. Stick around. We'll be right back.

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[Sean McIndew]

All right. We spent the first segment.

Digging my grave with, with McDavid. We know this. It just means he's gonna have, you know, 14 points in his next three games and make my, make my life hell. That's the way it's the way it goes. Win a game seven sometime. That's what, that's what I say.

Wanted to talk about another, another really solid performance last night. We're getting used to the Jesper Wallstedt experience in Minnesota. This is the latest shutout in a long string of them. Shuts out Edmonton 3, 0 on 33 shots. He's won seven straight games. 944 safe percentage overall. We have a great fake stat coming out of this game, fellas. The second fewest appearances to reach five shutouts as a goaltender in their career. He did it in 15 games. Frank Brimstick did it for the Bruins in 1934. That's right. Mr. Zero himself.

[Sean Gentili]

We all remember, we all remember that, don't we?

[Sean McIndew]

I Wallstedt's the front man for what we've seen from Minnesota over the last little bit. This is a team that I watched in October. They looked as bad, as bad as anybody could look. This is, they were just empty it at 5 on 5 to the point where.

I was ready to stick a fork in them. I was like this is, this team for whatever reason just does not have the juice. It's, it's whether they, whether they dig a hole for themselves or what. This isn't going to work out for them. Well, in comes well set now they're 121 and 2 in their last, in their last last month or so. In that stretch they're outscoring opponents 46 to 25 overall, which is significant. They're also 14th in goals per 60 during that stretch overall. So this is a team that's, you know, the goal differential is incredible but they're also not putting a ton on the board. I think it's fair to say that Wallstead is, is the driving force behind this. And Russo and Joe Smith, you know, put together a really nice thing a couple days ago trying to explain, you know, how this team has, has dug out of the hole and it's, and there's a ton of, ton of validity to it. But to me, man, I just, I look at the shot in the arm they've gotten from that dude and also to a lesser extent, Gustafson, and I'm like, they're this the season, the season has been safe for them because they look cooked now they're, now they're, now they're second a bunch of stuff to the abs.

[Sean Gentili]

That's, that's going to be, that's going to be one of the best goaltending duos. If those two guys stick together, Walstedt and Gustafson, it's going to be hard to rival that for a lot of teams who lack talent in the net. And I find last night's game so significant because the Minnesota Wild play against the Edmonton Oilers, AKA a team that lacks talent in the net. And if only the Oilers had an opportunity to acquire a player like Wallstead. Oh, wait, they did have that chance. If you go back to the 2021 draft, Edmonton trades down, they end up picking 22nd and 90th. They draft Xavier Borgo and then in the third round, Luca Munzenberger, who's never played an NHL game, clearly. But the biggest insult to injury with that is not the fact that, you know, Edmonton has been searching for a goalie and needed a goalie at that moment, and they didn't recognize that that was the guy they should have drafted, not that now Wallstedt shut them out. You know, one nothing. Which is like the most insulting score because it's like we just needed one goal to beat you and this guy did. The rest is the fact that right after Xavier Borgo, Wyatt Johnston got picked by the Dallas Stars. So not only did you fumble not picking the goaltender, you made the trade, you drafted the wrong player. And then this stud gets picked right after the guy that you specifically targeted and wanted to draft. That is crazy all the way around. And it almost comes, I guess you can say it comes full circle last night with him shutting out the Oilers. And like, just to piggyback on some of those numbers you were talking about, Gentile, like in, in, in the month of November, this guy was 60 with a 1.14 goals against and a.967 save percentage with three shutouts. Are you Kidding me. This guy's unbelievable. And they've got two franchise goalies in Minnesota. That sets you up for a lot in the future. And their scouting staff, the guys who, who found him and decided to make that pick, because Lord knows there's teams that are tentative to select goaltenders in the first round. Minnesota wasn't. So that scouting staff deserves a lot of credit for pulling the trigger on that guy at that moment, and they do.

[Frankie Corrado]

But two months ago, we would have looked at that pick and said what a bust that's turned out to be. Because, I mean, it. Look, you take a goalie in the draft, even if it's in the first round, you're not going to see a payoff on that for a few years to come. They just take longer to develop, typically. But this is a guy, you know, he played a handful of games each of the last two years, did not look like an NHLer, and. And this was the Philip Gustafsson show. This was his team. He was, you know, gonna be the starter. And, yeah, okay, hopefully the kid can back up and not, you know, not embarrass himself and he'll get some experience and you build him up from there. And no, didn't. Didn't need that. He's ready to be Terry Sawchuk right now. It's. It's. And it's just one of those things where you look at it and you go, as much as you talk about the Oilers with their goaltending and other teams where you just say, like, oh, how come you didn't address the goaltending games? Some of the times it just feels random. And again, this. This guy was a first round pick. It's not like he's come out of nowhere. But this was not something that any of us looked at this Minnesota Wild team at the beginning of the season and said, yeah, you know what? I think their young backup goalie might suddenly turn into the Vezina front runner. And did the.

[Sean McIndew]

Did the Wild even look at themselves that they signed? They signed Gusupsen to a big money extension, and, like, it's October.

[Frankie Corrado]

They were a year away from a changing of the guard. So, you know, hey, that. That's. Some of. That is. Is what roster building is, right? You. You try to get yourself some. Some lottery tickets or some guys with higher ceilings, and you kind of hope that you can develop them and that eventually they wind up hitting that. But it's. It's a strange one. And I got a question for you guys. Have we jump the gun on already putting Matthew Schaefer's name on the Calder Trophy because as amazing as he's been, goalies qualify for the Calder too. They don't usually win it. But I mean, if you've got a goaltender in the running for the Vezina, does that not at least get him into the conversation? As good as Matthew Schaefer's been?

[Sean McIndew]

Yep.

[Sean Gentili]

He's going to have to play more, right? Like, he's going to have to get the net. He's going to have to keep it up. Like I'm, you know, keeping up a 967 is going to be very, very difficult. But if he has a Dustin Wolf esque season and, you know, the, the storyline matches up with Minnesota, really tough start, but this guy gets the net and all of a sudden drags Minnesota to a top two three spot in that division, which is a really difficult division. He'll have a, a compelling case. And listen, Matthew Schaefer is the front runner. Matthew Schaefer is also playing 23 minutes a night as an 18 year old. So it's, it's justifiable. But if this guy continues to play close to what he's playing like, yeah, he's, he's going to be in the running and it's going to be, you know, as far as, we'll see how it kind of shakes out. But it'll be like Schaefer. One WALSTETTE two and then you're talking about Demidov, Seneca and maybe a couple other guys. But like, that's how quickly this guy has really put himself into that conversation.

[Frankie Corrado]

That's it. And if, if Walstead wins it, it's going to be a weird looking trophy because it's going to have Matthew Schaefer's name already engraved crossed out over top of Demidov's name, which was already engraved before the season even started. And now that's crossed out. And who knows, maybe one of those guys takes it back or maybe it ends up being somebody else. But it's, it's a fun race. And I, I gotta tell you though, every Minnesota Wild fan was loving this conversation right up until Frankie dropped the Dustin Wolf comparison.

[Sean McIndew]

Oh my God.

[Frankie Corrado]

And boy, you, you want to talk about goaltending at random? And who even knows these young guys?

[Sean McIndew]

Oh my God. Yeah. Well, it's a league award, right? This isn't the writers voting on this as we do for the Calder, but do you know who the NHL Rookie of the Month was in November?

[Sean Gentili]

It was Wallstadt.

[Sean McIndew]

It was Wallstadt. So, like, I don't know that that means much, but I think it, if nothing else, it's an indicator of how well he played in the last month. And Frankie, I'm, I'm with you. I don't, I don't see him if he starts.

39 games or something for the, for the, for the Wild down the stretch here, I, it's tough to see it happening, but I don't know, man.

[Sean Gentili]

Well, think about what he's done for his group. Like, we always talk about goaltending. It's so important. How important was goaltending to the Winnipeg jets this year? Because now they don't have Connor Hellebach and they're having players only meetings after losing to the Buffalo Sabres. And the guys on Toronto radio were talking about that. And I think it's a valid point, right? Like you lose to Buffalo and you have a players only meeting, isn't it insulting to the Buffalo Sabres? Like, you guys are so bad that we lost to you in that fashion and we need to sort things out.

[Sean McIndew]

Something needs to win.

[Frankie Corrado]

Every time you win a game, the other team either fires their coach or as a players only meeting.

[Sean Gentili]

Yeah. And it's a little insulting, but I get it, I get it. That's their, that's kind of been what has marred the Buffalo Sabres for quite some time. But, man, last year, Winnipeg, here's my whole thing on the jets last year, they were a really strong defensive team. They were hard to play against ice like premium ice was at such a premium to, to acquire in those games. If you were the opposition and then you had the last line of defense in Connor Hellebuck and everything was great in the regular season. Well documented how the playoffs went. They come back this year, they're not a, they're not as deep of a team because they don't have Nick Ehlers, but pretty much everyone's back. Like they added Jonathan Toews. He was never going to be the answer. But Nemesnikov's there, Perfetti's there. Like it's. The third line is basically there, save for Mason Appleton and your depth guys are there. It's all the same guys, but they have been porous. And Connor Ellebuck was masking all of that. And now you don't have him. And you're getting, you know, thumped by the Sabers. Having a players only meeting now you got to play Montreal in their building. I mean, just goes to show you what Conor Hellebuk was masking for, for that team. This year it was different. This year he was more deserving of an MVP this year for me anyways than last year because of the way the team had been playing.

[Frankie Corrado]

And Frankie, how, how much does it change how everybody else plays based on the goaltender? Like you, like who is the best goalie you ever played in front of. And I won't ask who the worst was, but you played for the Leafs, so, you know, I probably figured I.

[Sean Gentili]

Had to worry about when it comes to bad goalies, I had to worry about my own backyard before anything. But like I'll an example, man. Like, you know, there's, there's, let's say your, your other goalie goes in and he's bad and everything seems to go in. You're nervous, you're tentative, you feel like, oh, I can't make that play because if it doesn't go right or I got to make a stand here and be super aggressive because if I let a shot from this area of the ice, it's going to go in and I'm going back to the bench with a minus and it's just not a good feeling. But I would say Winnipeg shouldn't have been looking at it that way. This should have been a bit of a rallying point for the jets because for the first few games anyways, when Comrie or Milich was in the net, the jets were getting about like even on goal, saved above expected, maybe just a little bit more, maybe even maybe just a little bit less. Wasn't like you were checking the report after and it was minus 2.5 goals saved above expected. So this should have been the jets opportunity to say, we don't have our safety blanket anymore. We need to figure this out as a team. Like we need to play with the pace and the structure and the defensive acumen that we know we can because we've done it and they clearly have not done that. So there's another way you can look at it. Dgb, you can be nervous about who's in the net, but if the guy is in the net, is about doing his job, like in and around it, then it's more on you to be like, I need to elevate a little bit more. And you cannot honestly say that the jets have done that at that this.

[Sean McIndew]

Point they're 49 and 0 in their last. In the last 13 games, they're. If the playoffs started today, they'd be outside in that stretch, in that 13 game stretch, they've been outscored 45 to 32 and they're like mid, mid table across the board in terms of expected Goals for expected goals again. So this is a mediocre team that's getting like Frankie, like you said, it's not league worst goaltending. They're getting average goaltending and it seems like they don't know how to function whenever they're getting average goaltending versus. Versus High end goaltending. Is that, is that fair to say? Like, like, are they so accustomed to having the hella buck safety blanket that whenever you just throw in, you know, someone like Eric Comrie, who's who again, this isn't. They're not getting this. He's not doing beach ball stuff back there, right? Like, like they're getting. They're getting half decent play from, from their guys in the meantime.

[Frankie Corrado]

Yeah, like.

[Sean McIndew]

But the results are still just putrid.

[Sean Gentili]

He's not doing some of the stuff that DGB suggested some of my old goaltenders were doing, which I would never suggest because they are the best and I love those guys. Every single guy that I played with.

[Sean McIndew]

But I guess this is what the group chats for. See, we can. We can get the credo. The Crowdo Leafs Leafs goalie power rankings.

[Sean Gentili]

No one ever cost me a minus. I cost myself every minus out there. But I will say this. Like, I played with Jacob Markstrom for a year in the minors and we went all the way to the finals. And that year he was a beast. Like, he kind of shouldn't have been in the AHL that year. And he know. He knew it, everyone knew it, but he kind of just embraced like, I'm going to go get it and I'm going to force my way back up. And he sure enough did and then became one of the best starting goalies in the NHL. But that year, if there was ever a game where we needed a little extra juice, he had it for us. And if there was ever a game where maybe he struggled, you could bet your. Bet the house that the next game there was nothing going in. It was crazy, the bounce back that he had and it was remarkable. Like the, the mental fortitude. And it's. It's not easy to be a starting goalie in the NHL. But like, what we're talking about with the jets is more about second line doesn't have a lot of presence. You know, Adam Lowry still getting up to speed from the injury. Like, they're just. They're not, they're not as sharp as they were last year and they don't have, they don't have the, the Ray Donovan of goaltenders to clean up their mess back there.

[Frankie Corrado]

Anymore.

[Sean McIndew]

I was not expecting a Ray Donovan reference to today. Toss that one off, baby.

[Frankie Corrado]

Here's the last thing that scares me about Winnipeg is we talk about other teams that are, have had slow starts or bad stretches. We've talked about the Oilers. The Oilers are one point out of a playoff spot. We talk about, you know, the Maple Leafs for, you know, for months have been a disaster. They're three points back of second place in their division. You look at the jets, they're looking up the standings, specifically in the Central.

[Sean McIndew]

A lot of teams.

[Frankie Corrado]

Oh, they are. I mean, you've got Colorado running away. You've got Dallas right behind them. You've got. Minnesota is unbeatable right now. So I mean, you're almost looking at it for Winnipeg going like, what's our best scenario here? Are we are. Do we now have 50 games to get a wild card spot? And that's our best case scenario after winning the President's Trophy a year before, we're going to be a wildcard, potentially have to play Colorado in round one. It's tough. It's the one division where you, you just can't fall behind if you want to. You know, it's certainly if you're trying to get home ice for the playoffs, good luck because they're. The teams ahead of you are not playing along. They are just disappearing over the horizon right now.

[Sean McIndew]

Get this tread water until Michael Clayton comes back. That's what Connor Hellebuck's nickname is. That's, that's my media of choice. Frankie, you, you gotta jump off. I know you have a game tonight. Which, which one is that? It's. It's Habs.

[Sean Gentili]

No, I got, I got leaf panel tomorrow night. Oh, leaf panel tomorrow night. So getting the big show treatment. DGB will be watching and then back PJs back. Yeah, exactly. Back in Montreal on Sunday for Habs, Blues, the Bull, Duke, Mayu Bowl.

[Frankie Corrado]

Oh, man.

[Sean McIndew]

Very nice. Go get it. We know you got a jump. We'll talk you next week, bud.

[Sean Gentili]

Okay, see you, boys.

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[Frankie Corrado]

How'd they get so big without soul destroying complexity?

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[Sean McIndew]

Gonna find out who's number one. It's the customer. Whose Walmart is it? My Walmart. If you looked at Audible, it was.

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Kind of like growth, growth and then growth, growth.

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[Sean McIndew]

All right, there goes Frankie. Before me and Matt, can you tell you what we learned? Wanted to share some news about the network. The tennis podcast managed to secure Andy Murray's first major interview since retiring last year, which is a big deal. He's going to lift the lid on what it was like going head to head with Roger Federer, Rafael Nadal, Novak Djokovic. And he's going to talk about how retirement has reshaped his perspective of his career. So that's big news for the tennis heads out there. All right, McAdoo, what have we learned?

[Frankie Corrado]

What have we learned, Sean? I learned that.

The Olympic rink, if it gets finished on time, is apparently going to be four feet short, which I am fascinated to see how that that plays out. Which, look, I, I want to make fun of it, but also you can tell that, like, don't you get the sense that Gary Bettman is just itching for an excuse to pull the plug on this? So, like, I feel like if, if, if we make a big deal out of this, you know, he just, he just jumps on that. But yeah, he's.

[Sean McIndew]

He's the, he's the guy, he's the guy in the bar saying, give me a reason.

[Frankie Corrado]

Exactly. So I don't know. Four feet. I, I, I'm assuming they're just gonna take that out of the neutral zone, but maybe not. Maybe like one of the nets will be like, that'd be great in the end.

[Sean McIndew]

Boards right up against the boards.

[Frankie Corrado]

All I know is. Yeah, when, when the Kachuk brothers are going full speed on the dump and chase, they're gonna, they're going to be in for a surprise a fraction of a second earlier than they normally would.

[Sean McIndew]

I think, I think the, the construction delays. I'm more concerned about that personally.

[Frankie Corrado]

Yeah, the fact that the, the rink is going to be four feet short does not speak well to the planning that went into this.

[Sean McIndew]

That just sounds like, that sounds like good clean fun to me.

[Frankie Corrado]

Feels like part of the same problem. I don't know how, how comfortable we.

[Sean McIndew]

Had, but we had Russo and CJ are on this. They had a reported story published on Tuesday. One source, well versed on the building status told the Athletic that organizers needed, quote, a big bomb, not just a fire, to get their asses in gear on the construction. That's great.

It's supposed to be finished by mid December and it's sounds like there's no roads that lead up to the arena right now. So that's could be, that could be, could be kind of an issue. Do you want to hear my big conspiracy on why this is happening?

[Frankie Corrado]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Sean McIndew]

Just looking for justification to bring Tom Wilson to Milan. Baby.

Small ice, tight. Checking. We've heard more than enough about it from both GMs already. Tom Wilson, five goals in his last five games. They want an excuse to put him on the roster and leave off Bedard and they're creating it for themselves.

[Frankie Corrado]

This could be it. I, I think what they might need to do is just, you know, every player, they're looking at their, you know, what's their experience? Have they played internationally? How are their numbers? I think now they got to look and say, is there any kind of construction background here? Like.

You'Re like a, you know, you're like a real hard hat sort of guy. Like, yeah, I do bang and crack. No, no, we mean put on this hard hat and go get that rink finished because we got a game in six hours and they, they didn't get around to, to finishing up.

[Sean McIndew]

Brock Nelson. Was your uncle a contractor? Did you work summers for him back in Minnesota doing clean up sites or whatever? Yeah, some light, light construction work. What I've learned is that the color on color game between the. Between the Rangers and the Wings was at least. And Wings. Oh, my God.

[Frankie Corrado]

No, it was Rangers, Red Wings.

[Sean McIndew]

It was such a smashing success that I forgot the teams that played in it. But we're gonna get more. There's one coming up. I'm not gonna totally spill the details yet, but you can expect more color on color games on TV in the future. I was. I was wild to see how much.

[Frankie Corrado]

It is and when, but you can't say.

[Sean McIndew]

I mean, I told you got a.

[Frankie Corrado]

Little bit of a scoop. Yeah, I mean, I know you.

[Sean McIndew]

You know, you know it, too.

[Frankie Corrado]

I will be dropping this scoop on. On social media immediately after this must credit follow.

[Sean McIndew]

Down goes Brown at Blue Sky Social. It's. That's. That's where it's going to live. I just. I like seeing this because. Because first off, I was surprised that people lost their minds over it the way that they did. Yes, it looked cool, but the. But the amount of attention that it got, not just from hockey fans sort of took me by surprise. So kudos, I guess, to the league for realizing that, you know, they stumbled into something cool and trying to make it. Trying to make it happen again. I enjoyed it personally.

[Frankie Corrado]

Yeah, yeah, it. It looks good. They should do it more often. I. It's weird that it took them this long to figure it out, but better late than never. Never.

[Sean McIndew]

Better late than never.

[Frankie Corrado]

Can I give you a bonus, the NHL story? I'll give you a bonus thing that I learned because I was just looking at the oiler schedule. They are in Pittsburgh in two weeks, so all you pulleys out there, if you're looking to figure out when Connor McDavid is going to break Sitler's points record and then gesture up at the press box every single time. It's that dude.

[Sean McIndew]

Oh, man, he's gonna. He's gonna. He's gonna point directly at me and they're gonna be wearing orange jerseys or whatever. That'll be a color on color matchup too.

[Frankie Corrado]

Yeah, exactly.

[Sean McIndew]

Just tie it all together.

All right, Sean McIndew, thank you very much.

All right, Frankie Corrado off in the distance. Thank you very much. I know you can hear me. Thank you fine folks for listening to the Athletic Hockey Show. We're back on Wednesday. Haley and Shayna are here tomorrow. I may or may not be there. Tune in to see. Not that you care, but either way, have a great week. And thank you fine folks again.

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[Sean McIndew]

Com.