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- [00:01]
HP Copilot Announcer
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- [00:28]
Shayna Goldman
Are you really buying a car online
- [00:30]
Sean Gentile
on Autotrader right now?
- [00:31]
Shayna Goldman
Really? I can get super specific with dealer listings and see cars based on my budget.
- [00:35]
Mom (Verizon Ad)
You can really have it delivered or pick it up.
- [00:38]
Shayna Goldman
I think kid is walking up the slide. Really?
- [00:41]
Autotrader Announcer
Autotrader, buy your car online.
- [00:42]
Shayna Goldman
Really?
- [00:44]
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- [01:26]
Max Boldman
This is the Athletic Hockey Show. Hey everybody, Max Boldman here alongside Shayna Goldman for another episode of the Athletic Hockey Show. And Shayna, we had a loaded playoff slate last night. Philadelphia Flyers eliminate the Pittsburgh Penguins and what was a fantastic game, Cam York with the OT winner. I have to say for long stretches of that game it was wreaking of this is going to Game 7 and the Penguins, you know, I felt like put an onslaught on Dan Vladar, but he holds strong. I mean that is maybe the best goaltending performance of these playoffs so far. Single game.
- [02:10]
Shayna Goldman
It might be right because the Penguins definitely had their chances in this. And it did feel like not only were they getting some really in tight looks, but the pressure of the situation too. Right. Because as much as the Flyers had the advantage coming into this game, they could send the Penguins out of this at any point. It did feel like if this goes to Game 7, the Flyers are suddenly in this whole world of trouble. So it was even more important to like stand tall. And then when you consider like the way the Flyers offense has been in this series, it's like you need these tight games as much as possible because who's to say if they'll get two goals last night you are only getting one. So yeah, he, he definitely had a really Strong outing, and I think it's a. A good bounce back. He wasn't perfect last game. I think it seemed like the arm injury kind of messed with him the game prior. So. Yeah, good. Definitely good on Vladara this game. Yeah.
- [02:57]
Max Boldman
Early in the series, I felt like one of the big stories in addition to, you know, the. The energy level that. The speed, but I really felt like it was just like the Flyers structure was giving the Penguins fits, and the Penguins didn't. Did not really know how to play that game or weren't ready to play that game with the Flyers at first. But especially as the game goes, the series goes on, and as the game goes on, you're like, the Penguins look pretty comfortable now playing this game, and you wonder if there's an adjustment that Dan Muse made, the Penguins made, if they just kind of found their way into the series, but they looked like a team that, if that got to a Game seven in their building, like, it was very possible we were going to be looking at a reverse sweep, the rare reverse sweep. So for Philly to come out of that, I think speaks really well to how they hung in there, and they. You know, I think Carolina was going to be a prohibitive favorite against anyone who came out of this. I don't know that we're given Philly, like, a huge chance in that series, but. But I give them a lot of props for what they did, and who knows? I didn't give them a whole lot of a chance in the Pittsburgh series coming in either.
- [03:53]
Shayna Goldman
No, honestly, I didn't either, because it felt like the Flyers have been playing playoff games for the last, you know, month and a half here. And as much as they do a veteran talent, they also have a lot of young players that you could have seen them hitting a wall at any time. And if they were to drop three straight games to Pittsburgh to go to game center, it's like, okay, maybe that wall just came up now, which is reasonable, right? The adrenaline runs out, or, you know, you finally stop playing past, you know, the sum of all their parts, which they've been doing for so long. So I didn't have them winning this series, but they. They own their brand of hockey. Like, they came in, the best thing they could have done in the series was they made game circuses and leaned into it. And I think that just aggravated the Penguins. So it's like, yeah, they're not going to be the favorite in this next series either. The Canes were a stronger favorite than the Penguins from the start, and now the Canes are rested and probably getting a lot healthier. Plus, you look at, you know, the depth of that team, right? They play that shutdown defensive style, but they also have an overwhelming offense, and the Flyers really only have one side of that equation. So, yeah, we're rightfully going to take the Canes in the series, but the fact that the Flyers are here is such an accomplishment. The fact that they battled through that series to end it in six, I think, is massive for them, too. It's not just riding this emotional wave that they were doing. It's adjusting and tweaking and doing enough to keep. Keep this season alive even when the goings got a little bit tough there.
- [05:16]
Max Boldman
Yeah, absolutely. And really, we'll see what happens in that. In that Philly Carolina series. But I'm curious, going forward, for both of the two teams that were in this series, Pittsburgh and Philly, like, what does this season mean for how they proceed? Because I think these were two of the few kind of rebuilding, ish teams coming in, or certainly the Penguins, I thought, were one of the few bonafide rebuilding teams coming in. They're now both playoff teams. The Flyers are going to go at least to the second round and maybe, who knows, a little further. How does what happened this season for both Pennsylvania teams affect their future outlook for you? Are they both. Do they both still enter next year as kind of fringy rebuilding types, or do you view either of them now as, like, this is a team that expects and should be in the playoffs?
- [05:57]
Shayna Goldman
I'm going to say fringy rebuilding types for both, but, like, in different directions. Right. Because the Flyers have surprisingly been in the playoff mix for the last few years and then fallen short. I think management's done a really good job of not being blinded by, you know, some spurts of, like, success in the regular season to go off the rails. They've stayed on track with the process no matter what the team's done. And I think we could see them. You know, I expect to see a measured approach taken again this offseason with that in mind. Right. Like, they're not going to just say, hey, we made it to the playoffs. Now let's start adding veterans and just completely follow like that. I don't think that's happening here. So I think they expect to still be in the playoff race next year, and we'll see where that goes. For Pittsburgh, it's a completely different energy. Right. Because coming into this postseason, I feel like it could have gone two ways. It was either last dance of all the Veterans or end of an era, you tried, you failed, move on. And it feels like we're getting the ladder here. The fact that they extended the series, yes, that's a good thing. It's better than, I don't know, being swept because then it's like, wow, that really crashed and burned. It's not working. But. But at the end of the day, they lost in round one. And while they didn't do anything too splashy this season to just start buying up players and, you know, at the risk of the future, like, I think Kyle Dubas had a great approach to the season and a lot of moves. You see the future of it, right? Like adding Sam Gerard, the Stuart Skinner trade, investing in Chinikov and other reclamation projects. Like all of that, I see the vision and they can keep doing that for another year. But I wonder at a certain point if, if it's like, okay, it's that plus a little bit more aggression to get younger and, and really turn the page because it just didn't work. And if you couldn't capitalize off this season, that was so good. When are you going to do it?
- [07:33]
Max Boldman
I'm of the mind that they're going to need a really high pick at some point. Like they, they did extremely well in this past draft. Getting Ben Kendall, getting Will Horcoff, you know, two guys who I think probably go higher in if the draft is held today. Kendall certainly is going higher than he did if the draft was held today. But I think you just need that top five pick at some point. The problem is always going to be, can you commit a season to that when you have Sidney Crosby, can you even really be bad enough to have that? I mean, that's one of my takeaways right now with Sidney Crosby. And like you said, some of these reclamation projects, I mean, I don't think they're getting another 33 goal year from Anthony Manta kind of thing next year. But who knows? I mean, maybe they bring him back, maybe they don't. But they've, like you said, they've invested in the Chinikovs. Elmer Soderblum is a guy who I covered in Detroit for the last few years. I think he looks like a better player in Pittsburgh. And you saw spurts of it in Detroit, but they've gotten more of it so far in Pittsburgh and they may be able to keep finding guys like that. So it's an interesting one to handicap because I think they need to have a true lottery type pick at some point to set themselves up for the Future, but I think as long as you have Crosby, and if you're making, you know, shrewd GM moves as Kyle Dubas has continued to make, it'll be interesting because I think they can kind of hover a little bit. Now, Goaltending a question, and we'll see what happens with their. With their big core. I'll leave that one for. For the people who know Pittsburgh a little bit better, but let's move into the. To another series in the East. Montreal, Tampa, Another excellent game. This has been, for me, the best series of the first round. Every game is just pins and needles, and once again, Montreal finds a way and finds a way through their depth last night. Shayna.
- [09:07]
Shayna Goldman
Yeah, Montreal, I think, has been one of the most exciting teams this postseason. And I think going into this, we knew, like, here's two similar teams, right? Like, it's Tampa Bay, the contender we all know and have seen for the last, you know, 10 years now. And here is Montreal, this up and coming team in their second postseason, and they show a lot of stylistic similarities to Tampa Bay, but at the end of the day, it's, you know, one team's a little more battle tested here, experienced. And also you saw potential pitfalls in Montreal, right? Like, they play a little bit looser defensively, and now they're without Noah Dobson, who handles the shutdown minutes, which allows Lane Hudson to just cook. So you could have seen where things could have gone south for Montreal, and instead they come in with a ton of jump, and they've been so exciting even without the big gun scoring. That top line Sorelli has done a great job slowing down that Sorelli and Gord, both of them against the Suzuki line, have really stopped them from being the difference that we know them to be. And yet Montreal keeps having answers. They're getting scoring from their third line. Brendan Gallagher comes back into the lineup and scores last night. The fourth line has been incredibly productive throughout this series, and you just see Hudson taking over games at times and Dovish coming up big. The. I think, like, the biggest thing out of this, that is the. The biggest surprise, I should say, out of all of this, is that Tampa Bay's offense has not been really strong at five on five. And that's. That's the key here. It's Montreal shutting them down. I think we would have expected it to go the other way, right? Like, it's just that Montreal is creating more offense than Tampa, and that's how they're in this position. Instead, it's Montreal actually clamping down. On a team like the Lightning, the big guns not doing enough for Tampa Bay. Kutrov's been good, but he has another level. Braden Point has another level. Obviously they're missing headmen and Vasilevsky has been fine, but not good enough. Not playoff Vassi that we know from years past put it all together. They're behind in the series. And it's completely fascinating what they're going to do here because I can see them coming out with just fueled by spite, ready to clamp it down, to just push back against Montreal and make it interesting to Game 7. But Montreal going back to Montreal with, you know, with the buzz, with the juice of ending it in regulation, especially, like, I, I feel like they've built themselves a ton of momentum here.
- [11:24]
Max Boldman
If you had told me to kind of tell a story coming into this series about how it was going to go for me, it would have gone something like this. Like the. The point, Kucherov, Gensel are going to kind of trade blows and cancel out the Caulfield, Suzuki, Slavkovsky. Right. And then it's from there, what do you have? And I like Montreal's kind of bottom checkers, but it was in that middle, your Sorelli's, your Gourds, like Bjork, Strand, whatever. Like, I felt like Tampa had the clear edge there and that they would just get a little bit more from the middle of their lineup than, you know, to tilt the series. Instead, what's happened is I think those top lines have canceled each other or cancel each other out, but not in the way that I envisioned. Instead, it has been a bunch of guys like Anthony Sorelli has lived on my Selkie ballot in recent years. Yanni Gord and Nick Suzuki are both on it this year. The top lines are canceling each other out by checking through these first five games of this series. And it has been the depth, you know, deciding it, but it's gone Montreal's way. Texier has been excellent. Josh Anderson had a couple big goals early in the series. Kirby Dock shows up with a huge goal last night. Like, Montreal is showing that not only can their guys down the lineup check, they can produce in playoff type moments. And that's been in the difference has been slight. Every game's been a one goal game here, but it's been just slight enough in Montreal's favor.
- [12:39]
Shayna Goldman
Yeah, I mean, Doc has done a little bit of everything in this series and to rebound after making mistakes to getting the trust from the coaches to stay in the lineup and keep getting, you know, deployed out there. And he's delivered. That's obviously massive. Josh Anderson loves playing the Tampa Bay Lightning. You go back to the Columbus years when the Blue Jackets upset, you know, this legendary Lightning team, it's Josh Anderson playing disruptor in it. So that's massive because, yeah, we're seeing some things from Slafikovsky. He has the big game one. Yeah, we've seen some moments from Demidoff, but not enough. It's the bottom six, and I don't think anyone saw that coming because you look at Montreal last year in the playoffs and, you know, obviously it's a different team. They're a little bit younger than two, little less experienced, but it's the top line. It's Caulfield, it Suzuki, it's Lane Hudson carrying that team into the postseason, and they're the only ones making their mark in Round one. So it's definitely encouraging to see that the Canadians are getting contributions up and down the lineup, but obviously, if they're going to move on here, they're going to need more. But you look at Tampa Bay, like their side of the equation on it, and the fact that those lines are canceling each other out, I think it's been interesting to see how they've tweaked Kucharov's usage through these games, too, of whether he plays with Point or whether he plays with Sorelli. And I feel like the Sorelli combination is a little bit more favorable here, and I would just be putting that line out over and over again in Game six to try to extend the series because I think they've had a little bit more juice together. I don't think Braden Point has been as noticeable. It's been an up and down year. It feels like every time he gained traction, he got hurt again, you know, once he finally got together after a slow start to the year. But I think maybe just spreading the wealth a little bit would help because guys like Hagel are performing and I think Gensel especially, he's doing more damage on the power play than even strength. But you need Kucherov to be your guy, and the same is going to go for Montreal at some point. They're going to need Caulfield to score more, but if they can get by one more game with those bottom six contributions and just, you know, use their big guns to cancel out Tampa Bay's best, that's something. And I. I'm really curious how it's going to look when Dobson comes back, because, like, while forwards and defensemen have different responsibilities, Dobson is the one that Takes on these, the heaviest matchups for Montreal. It's allowed that top six to flourish more. It's allowed the top four on the back end to flourish more. Just having that separation of deployment. And I think it, you know, there's more on Suzuki's plate because he doesn't have Dobson on the back end because it's a weaker pair. He's in those minutes, so I wonder how much too that'll help open him up moving forward.
- [15:00]
Max Boldman
Absolutely. Let's get to the late game from last night too, because this was another one back and forth. This has been a good series, you know, another one last night, back and forth. When Utah does not score on the four minute power play, down a goal, I'm thinking, all right, well that was your chance. You had a great opportunity and you didn't get it. Then Dylan Genther scores. Then they take a lead, Vegas comes back, ties it late, and in a double overtime game, it's Brett Howden on the winner. Vegas is. It has unkillable vibes right now.
- [15:29]
Shayna Goldman
Yeah, absolutely they do. Because it feels like Vegas. Every time Utah gets some momentum. These last two games, Vegas has crushed it. And that's kind of what happened in game one too. Right. Like we saw Utah come out with the ton of speed. Third period, Vegas looks like the experienced team. They start forechecking more. They win that game. And the last two games, it's these great comebacks by Utah. A ton of resilience. The power play for Utah has been a killer and yet they're managing right. It feels like the shifts after the power play, which should be so deflating, they're actually coming up bigger than expected and they're starting to take a little bit more control. Those two, two on ones from Utah on the third period, Vegas can't defend them. They don't have the speed on the back end to, to manage it either. And Utah just keeps, you know, extending these games to overtime only to fall short with shorthanded goals of all things. You know, to. To take so many penalties is risky enough because while Vegas hasn't had the best luck on the power play, I think they're giving them too much time to get it together and then they're not building enough momentum from their own advantages. So it just feels like Vegas, as cliche as it is, they're the battle tested team. They've been here before and they look like it.
- [16:40]
Max Boldman
Everything. There's so many peripherals in this series would suggest that Vegas should be down or should be vulnerable. Right. I mean, the, the the go question, not going away. The 2C question. Like, you have this big, expensive addition in Mitch Marner, and you're playing him out of position as your 2C because Tomas hurdle hasn't been right because you don't have William Carlson. Whatever. Like, there's so many things that if you told me them before the season or before the series even, I'd be like, yeah, I just don't see how it's gonna. You can't have all those things going wrong and find a way. But they are doing just that. They're finding a way. That's what experience does for you. And, you know, I don't know. What do you think? Mammoth stretches to seven. It's gonna be a home ice. I mean, that. That building's been rocking.
- [17:22]
Shayna Goldman
I could see them stretching it to seven. I'm hopeful that they do, because I think that would be more interesting. And I think Vegas, you know, the foot speed issue and the goaltending issue is what opens the door to it. Um, but the Golden Knights are, like, getting hot at the right time. Like, Jack Eichel wasn't as noticeable last night, but his game four I thought was just fantastic. And now Dorothy of has found his scoring touch. And even Hurdle makes a great play to set up Dar Favin. I feel like he's had a pretty rough series at times and kind of an underwhelming regular season now. And it goes back to last postseason. I don't think he was good enough for them. So it feels like the pieces are coming together for Vegas to just end this in six. But I could see Utah, you know, being resilient once more, dragging it out, and then I don't know who would win in that game. I still. I still am leaning Vegas. Even though I picked Utah at the beginning of the series, I. And I think these overtimes might be a problem, too, because at times, Utah does look a little bit gastier. And it's just, you know, you have to have the stamina if you're going to play this rush game to do it for potentially 80 minutes, 90 minutes, and, you know, that's one thing going into it that could be a problem.
- [18:26]
Max Boldman
Dorothy and Barbashev, to me, are two guys for Vegas who they just kind of seem to find the net. And if those guys are going, I think I like Vegas. Odds against most teams. If you can keep those guys quiet, quiet, you give yourself a chance, because you can, you know, who you need to kind of isolate on otherwise. But Dora Fev's on. They're a hard team to beat.
- [18:44]
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- [20:30]
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- [20:34]
Shayna Goldman
Me.
- [20:35]
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- [21:30]
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- [21:51]
Max Boldman
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- [21:58]
Shayna Goldman
See verizon.com for details.
- [22:03]
Max Boldman
All right, let's now stay in the west and let's go to a series that continues tonight or, sorry, tomorrow, the Edmonton Oilers and the Anaheim Ducks. Let's bring in Sean Gentile, who's been covering that series for us at the Athletic.
- [22:16]
Sean Gentile
It's tonight, buddy. Bad news.
- [22:18]
Max Boldman
I don't know what day it is, Sean.
- [22:19]
Sean Gentile
Me. Me neither. All I know is that there is a hockey game in Anaheim tonight And I flew 11 hours yesterday to get to it or whatever it was. So yes, it is. It is today.
- [22:30]
Max Boldman
All right, Thursday night.
- [22:31]
Charles Schwab Announcer
How about that?
- [22:31]
Max Boldman
We'll go with that. My issue is knowing what day I'm in more so than what they're in.
- [22:36]
Sean Gentile
It's. It's that time of year, brother. It happens.
- [22:39]
Max Boldman
The Oilers, you know, they, they fight. Rousing start to that last game. They show a lot of fight. They're, they're going to get up off the mat here. My question for you is, do you feel like they can repeat this enough times? Because we're talking about it in the, in the Utah Vegas series where there's enough kind of indicators on Vegas that should be scary and they're finding a way to do it. There's a lot of scary indicators for the Edmonton Oilers, too. Anaheim's found a way more times than not, though, to save those off.
- [23:07]
Sean Gentile
Yeah, I think if you see the Edmonton Oilers the lead, it's such a cliche. But if, but if they're playing with the lead, I think they have a chance and I think that sort of dictated the run of that game a couple days ago where they get three first period goals. You get vastly pot goals. And with a With a big one to start, to start things off. And Ingrams, you know, playing well in. Down the stretch in that first period. That's. That's huge. And I think that kind of colored everything that came after it because the five on five numbers though, for the rest of that game were not good. I mean, it's an instance of Edmonton's. Some of it to some degree, it's Edmonton playing with the lead and trying to, you know, avoid disaster and, you know, pushing Anaheim to the perimeter. Like, we saw a lot of that. But also I think mixed in there is the fact that Anaheim is a more effective 5 on 5 team than they are at this point, just across the board. So I think there is some degree of sustainability there. I think they played well, well, even though, you know, some of the shot metrics and the expected goals don't quite reflect that. And I think the biggest thing that they found in that game was two scoring lines. Like what we'd seen in the first. The first four games was, you know, it was dry sidel. It was podcast and it was Kaspari Kap and five on five and not really anything else. Well, Knobloch throws that into a blender, moves dry, saddle back up with McDavid, which, you know, paid off to some degree because. Because they, they did connect for, for a five on five goal there, but, man, it seems like they stumbled on something with Nugent Hopkins and Pod Colson and. Nugent Hopkins, but Colson and Zach Hyman. My God, I almost forgot Zach Hyman's name. That's where we're at here. So they, they. They have two lines rolling for the first time in this series. And I think that's a, That's a big deal. And that's the single biggest reason I think they could, you know, extend this a bit further.
- [25:01]
Shayna Goldman
So Jackson McCombs becoming a big name in this series, he's been crushing the matchup game against McDavid. Part of it's because McDavid's hurt. Part of it is that he's also really good and really good in all three zones. And it's a totally different realm of matchup than we've seen. Right. Like, they're going with someone who actually plays in all three zones instead of just trying to slow down McDavid, which you're not going to be able to do from my viewpoint. I thought that he was much better in those matchups on home ice. And now series shifts back to Anaheim. Anaheim's back in control, but it's dry sell. McDavid like, what do you think we're going to see tonight from that matchup?
- [25:36]
Sean Gentile
I think the matchup games honestly been kind of interesting. It was just across the board. Like, it was something that Quinville wasn't super interested in at the start of it. Like, he wasn't going out of his way to, to, to change things. And when they didn't have last change, which is kind of funny. And I think it is. It's not a coincidence that, you know, in those Anaheim games, I think you saw, you know, you saw them. You saw them walk into a couple, a couple solid situations. And it's, it certainly starts with lacombe. Someone asked Dry Seidel about him a few days ago, and they framed it as, you know, comparing him with Makar. Right. And I think that was like, sort of the implication is, is Lacombe, you know, that kind of player? And Dry Settle didn't mean it as a knock. Like, he wasn't. He wasn't. He didn't. He wasn't trying to, you know, neg Jackson lacombe. But what he said was, he's a different player than Makar because Makar, you have to be, you know, completely aware of where he is at any given moment. Because the offensive stuff in Lacombe's case, which I said, I'll say he's like, he's, like, he never makes the wrong decision. Like, he's in. He's in the right spot all the time. Yeah, he's got, he's a great skater and he's got a ton of skill, but also, like, he's got that, he's got that. That the necessary bit that allows him to be in the right place at the right time. And I think that kind of reflects itself. Yeah, for sure. And what we've seen from him in all three zones. Absolutely.
- [27:00]
Max Boldman
There's just a kind of a magic factor to him on some plays, too. I mean, the defensive one where he whips the stick around to break up the two on one. It's like, how does he do now? Draisaitl got one over on him early in the series as well.
- [27:11]
Sean Gentile
Sure.
- [27:12]
Max Boldman
On the blow by.
- [27:13]
Sean Gentile
But Jackson looks charmed, whatever that goal, by the way. Yeah. Like, he, he played some bully ball there and he had Leo Carlson hanging on his back, too. Like, it's so like, that's the way it goes. That's Leandro Seidel. Like, he's done it. He's done it to players as good as Jackson lacombe. That's. That's for sure.
- [27:29]
Shayna Goldman
But.
- [27:29]
Max Boldman
But it's the fun part of the series to me is that, you know, a lot of these names, especially when we're talking out west, right? And there's some of these guys that the broader hockey public is not seeing on a nightly basis, right? Jackson Lacombe's an Olympian and we don't really see him in the Olympics, right. So a lot of the young Ducks especially have this kind of going for him right now. Leo Carlson has an element of this. Beckett Seneca has an ele us Cutter goatee. Because of the goal scoring, I think people were a little more aware of. But that's the fun part is this, is this Ducks core's real introduction to, I think, the broader NHL fan base.
- [28:02]
Sean Gentile
I think the fun thing about the Ducks is that they pop like they're good for, they're good for casual fans. They're in there and they're in there good for people who are maybe watching them the first time. Like you watch that team, you know who the good guys are, right? Like, you know, you, you know who their best players are. Carlson plays aesthetically, aesthetically fun hockey. Cutter Goce. Like, we love, we love the goal scoring totals, but also that guy is, he's, he is a shot production machine. Like that's where it starts with him. The amount of pucks that guy's put, that guy puts on the net at any given time are wild. Right? And you have lacombe, yes, he's positionally sound, but also he's doing, he is doing Makar, walk the blue line, you know, stuff like that. Beckett, Seneci, Beckett, Seneca. He sees, you know, I, My God, he is, he is. He's a chaos machine out there. Like he is. So he is so fun to watch. And when that kid grows new, he's already a good player. When he grows into his body in two years, three years down the line, he's gonna, he's gonna be something else, right? So you know, you know who the stars are when you watch this team. And I think that's gotta be fun for. For people who are just getting exposed them for the first time. Like, like we've, we've seen them, we got, we gotta watch these games. But even me seeing, watching them for 11 days now, or however long it's been, I'm. I'm enjoying them on, on, on a different level as well.
- [29:22]
Max Boldman
There's something about a series too with that. I mean, it's. You see them against this. Not just the same guys, the same all world guys. And that's very fun, 100%.
- [29:30]
Sean Gentile
Now they're, you know, I think. It's tough to blow a 31 lead. I think, I think that's good for them. I think that's good for them right now. I think there were incremental changes like we talked about earlier, like incremental moves forward for Edmonton in, in that last game that, you know, from the outside, you, if you're, if you're rooting for the Ducks, maybe you're getting, you're getting a little bit nervous. It seemed, it seemed like Edmonton was closer to getting right in that last game than they've, than they've seen in quite some time. But yeah, it's, it's, it's been fun.
- [30:04]
Shayna Goldman
Do you think they have a lot of pop? Because this is a total chaos series with no defense. Like, are we going to see semi competent defense tonight? Is tonight the night that we see it? Because it feels like, you know, Lacombe's defending well and we've seen, I think Jake Walman came up with some pretty big plays last game, but generally speaking, it's a lot of scoring and I
- [30:22]
Sean Gentile
thought, okay, so, so my, my thought on, on the last game, and we mentioned this before, but shot clock expected goal is like way, way, way tilted in favor of Anaheim in that last game. Despite the score. I do think that there was some, especially after that first period, there was some amount of chaos that was lost because Edmonton, who had been a complete disaster at the net front, Bouchard, Wallman, you know, to, to a lesser degree maybe Darnell Nurse, they're making, they're making huge high profile mistakes like, like pretty consistently some of them, some of them bet them, some of them didn't. I think what we saw from them, you know, in the second, third period last game is that, okay, we're gonna at least force them to the perimeter, maybe cut back on some of the rebounds. I think Connor Ingram was better with his rebound control in that game, which, which is kind of what killed him in game three. So I, Is this a Chaos series? Absolutely. Is this the chaos series of the first round? Absolutely. But I think, you know, there's been incremental gains made by Edmonton if they're trying to cut back on it. So that's, that's the thing. I would, I would, I would watch out. I would watch out for there. Don't, don't necessarily look at the, at the shot totals, look at how many are screened or tipped or whatever, because that was always, that was what was killing. That was what was killing him in that three game stretch where they lost
- [31:46]
Max Boldman
one way or another. Sean's getting on a plane tomorrow. Sean, where will that plane be heading?
- [31:51]
Sean Gentile
I haven't booked. I haven't booked anything yet. The only thing I know is that the flight will be long and there will be at least, at least one layover because that's the world we're living in right now.
- [32:01]
Max Boldman
All right, no prediction from Sean, but we'll let him go on that. Great stuff. Sean, thanks for doing this.
- [32:06]
Sean Gentile
Duck seven, Oilers five. There's my. There's no chaos, baby.
- [32:11]
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Let's go.
- [32:12]
Max Boldman
Love it. Thanks, Sean.
- [32:13]
Sean Gentile
See you guys.
- [32:18]
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- [34:17]
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- [34:44]
Shayna Goldman
Every Style, Every Home
- [34:49]
Max Boldman
all right, Shaina, let's wrap with this. You did a great story earlier this week on the Athletic and we can stay with this series to begin it because the story was what young NHL players can learn from their playoff opponents, superstar playoff opponents. And basically the conceit and I love this is we have some kind of guy, some series that pit a young emerging star against a guy who looks like a perfect world version of what they could become. Is Leo Carlson ever going to get to Leon or yeah, Leo Carlson ever get to Leon Draisaitl's physical size? Maybe not. But there's in terms of the cerebral play, the two way force, the ability to kind of break out a wicked shot despite being potentially one of the better playmaking big bodied centers in the world. There there is some some aspiration to what what Leo Carlson can can look at Lee and Draisaitl and find yeah,
- [35:42]
Shayna Goldman
Carlson will definitely have to put on a little bit of weight, a lot of bit of muscle if he wants to compete with the frame of Leon Dry Settle. I feel like it's almost like I hate using the word underrated because it feels like it's me saying like I know something you don't. But I feel like his size is something that doesn't get enough hype because Dry Seattle's strength is such an important part of his attack. And I think that is what Carlsen should be learning from this series is what you can do when you use your frame to your advantage. And it's funny because that that game winning goal that Draisaitl comes in powers through the offensive zone past Carlson, past Lacombe was what kind of inspired me to do this story because earlier this year I was going to do a best worst case Scenario of Leo Carlson and dry settle came up as one of his early comps. And then as the Ducks went through it in December and they went through it and some of the two way play dropped the, you know, there was a little more separation in similarity score between these players at the same age. So I kind of just put it to the back burner and then you see Carlson get back on track. But here it is in this moment of this is one of the things that separates these two players and this is something Carlsen can learn. So even if Carlsen and the Ducks take out the Oilers and upset them in the first round, there's still elements he should be studying and that's a big part of it because you look at so many zone entries from Leandre Seidel, the way he just goes in with such power or he's protecting the puck with one hand, holding it pretty far away from his body and and using his other arm to hold off defenders. It's something I think that could take Carlson's game to the next level because dry stle really has become this all three zone threat. If he put, if he killed penalties, he'd probably get a more selkie ballots and I think that's a big reason why. So you see the makings to becoming this total superstar and he has the skill set to become it to be the next dry style. It's tough because that's a top three forward in this league. But if he could become that true franchise or MVP caliber center and I think he does have the raw tools to do it, he should be studying dry saddle to see what he can emulate from him to get to that next level.
- [37:44]
Max Boldman
Yeah, and that's what I love about the premise of this is like we always talk about guys needing to get into the playoffs and learning, you know, Emmys are valid things. Learning how to win, learning what it feels like to play in these tight games. But it's also just a really great opportunity to play against the guy that you basically want to become or should become or hope to become and getting to see like getting to feel. I mean he was one of the guys on that play that we talked about with Sean that dry sell just bought bodies through. Right. Well now Leo knows what that feels like and how. How hard that was for him to defend its lived experience. Let's go through some more of these. Like you had a few really good examples here. Ivan Demitov in Montreal and Nikita Kutrov obviously.
- [38:18]
Sean Gentile
Right.
- [38:18]
Max Boldman
Like Nikita Kutrov is one of one. But when you look at Dummy Dov's play, play making and the way that he can kind of control a game he can draw defenders in. This is what Nikita Kutarov is, is aces at. And this is what Ivan Dimitov can become.
- [38:32]
Shayna Goldman
Yeah, like Nikita Kucherov doesn't always get the same credit as McDavid or McKinnon because he doesn't play the game with a ton of pace. But he's someone that controls the pace of game. And it's so impressive how he does it. He's so methodical. He's such a smart player and he's such a strong player too, how he lifts sticks and gets defenders out of the way to get the puck in the first place and the way he just starts operating from there, right. You never know what he's going to do. He's so deceptive. He can be slipping passes to everyone. He can be taking the shots himself. And you see the difference in the series. Even though we're not getting top level. Kucherov, you know, there's that power play goal in, what was it, Game four. Kuchov, I think, had six puck touches leading up to the goal. He's creating so much space. Everything's going through him and yet you still can't defend him properly. And that's something, you know, we're not seeing Demidoff take over on Power Play 1 just yet. And yes, Montreal has a lot of other threats, right? Cole Caulfield tends to be the guy there. Sapkowski's had his moments on the power play. You can't forget about Nick Suzuki. So it's going to be a shared responsibility. Plus you have Lane Hudson. But it's not like Tampa Bay's power play isn't completely loaded either, right. Like over the years. And Kucherov still feels like he's low key, the quarterback of everything, because everything runs through him. And the other thing that I think is super noticeable is the difference in how much they shoot the puck. Right? Because Kucherov, we all think of him for his passing, rightfully so. But what makes him so dangerous is you have no idea if he's going to move the puck or if he's just going to rip a shot. And he has a great shot when he chooses to use it. He's shooting the puck way more than Demidoff, which is probably the biggest gap in his game right now. You watch him in the regular season and go, okay, look at these amazing cross team passes and look at how he's drawing all the defenders to him. And Oliver Kapanen has all the space in the world when they're playing together. Slepkovsky, he was setting up, but he doesn't take enough shots. And at times this year when Slafkovsky was on his line and he's had a ton of high danger passes this year, you saw Demidoff opening up a little bit, becoming more of a dual threat. But in this series he's not shooting the puck nearly enough. And that's something that will add less predictability to his game because as much as you don't know when he's going to pass it, how he's going to pass it, because he's just creating passing lanes themselves all shift long, it would be nice to see that he actually might trick opponents completely and shoot the puck himself. Like I think that's where you see like getting a little harder to play against and adding a little bit more dimension could take his game from good to great.
- [40:48]
Max Boldman
Yeah, absolutely. Logan Cooley was an interesting one here because I don't know if it's the skating and the fact that he played for the NTDP or what I've always kind of thought of him on the. Somewhere on the Jack Hughes continuum and maybe a little bit James Hagan's in the same vein as these like really great skating forwards that have come out of the program smaller side. But I think, you know, and Cooley and Hagen certainly, I think go to the net a lot. But you had a different comp on him and it's Jack Eichel. And the more the Cooley grows into a well rounded player, I. I buy this. I mean Jack Eichel's on my Selkie ballot this year. I won't say where just yet. I don't know that Logan KU is going to get to that level, but he is going to be able to be deployed in absolutely all situations. He's a tough player, he's a fast player. He just has a ton going for him. And you say he can learn more from Jack Eichel?
- [41:34]
Shayna Goldman
Yeah, like as is. This is a great player off the rush. I mean he had more scoring chances up the rest of the season. I think according to like all three zones, tracking at 5 on 5 and you know, he scores a ton of goals without shooting the puck as much. He's thrived on the power play and that's all stuff Jack Eichel did in those early years. The difference is Jack Eichel just kept leveling up and it was tough to see at times in Buffalo. Right. Because the team was so bad, but he started playmaking a little bit more, moving the puck. So it's not just that he's, you know, transporting it up the ice, but he's setting his teammates up consistently in the offensive zone. And he got better defensively in Buffalo, actually. But when he went to Vegas, he completely leveled up, became this all situation threat. He's, you know, used in shutdown minutes, he kills penalties. And that's really goes along with league trends too, of having more offensive players in shorthanded situations. And you go, okay, Cooley's skill set is similar to that and you can see the similarities there and you could see how he could follow that path. But it's a little bit different here. Like, if you're Logan Cooley and you become the next Jack Eichel and you become this well rounded threat, you know, you still have to make sure your offense pops enough. And that was something. When we did player tiers this year, the criticism of Jack Eichel was, does he not prioritize offense enough? And you go back to the year he wins a Stanley Cup, I think he should have won the con smite, because he was the straw that stirs the drink. He's setting up everybody but the goal scorer always gets more credit. Here you go. Fast forward to last year's postseason. He's matched up against McDavid and he had to play a little bit more defensively. And in the early goings of this series too, he's getting a lot of matchups against Cooley and he's having to defend that speed instead of playing to his strengths. Well, game four, Jack Eichel, you see what makes him so special, and I think that was that he still has the offensive chops to be the guy, but you have to keep that balance and that'll be really important for Cooley to keep. You know, keep in mind, even if your role changes, your natural gifts lean towards this, you know, offensive game. So keep leaning in.
- [43:21]
Max Boldman
I had so much fun with this one. I mean, I was trying to think of more that I could throw at you when we, when we did this segment. Right. But like, a lot of them are kind of already there. I think Jake Sanderson has. Is already kind of at the level with Jacob Slavin and surpassed him offensively. And I was trying to think there has to be like a Buffalo defenseman that we could do something with with a Lindholm or a McAvoy on Boston, but the profiles don't really overlap perfectly. It's much more of like A puck moving kind of flavor I think to the Buffalo defense corps. But I was, I would read 10 of these if you have 10 more in you because I really enjoyed it.
- [43:51]
Shayna Goldman
So I hope we get more in round two. Yeah, I tried. I really, I was like nature's imperium, like oh, nature's already, you know, like coming together and Sanderson already moves the puck more and you know, could Owen Power be like campus Lindholm? Like I might be stretching it vassity because their size. I was like, you know what, stick with the three and let's see if anything comes up next round because it does feel like we had it. The similarities like team wise, you know, Keynes to Ottawa and Lightning Montreal. So having the player to player. I really hope there's more of these.
- [44:19]
Max Boldman
Great piece. Highly recommend everybody check it out. Before we go today, Shane, I just want to wrap on the other game tonight, Minnesota and Dallas. And this is one that, you know, from the beginning I thought it would go seven. I want it to go seven. This I don't think every single game has been as white knuckle as Tampa, Montreal, but certainly this is the series that we all had circled coming in. Really we've had circled for months because we saw it coming with the playoff format. This was likely going to be a 2, 3. I think for the most part it's lived up to it. You just probably want to see a little more from Dallas's stars.
- [44:50]
Shayna Goldman
Yep, you want to see more from Dallas's stars. Specifically at five on five. They're getting outscored 11 to three at five on five. And you know, I think Robertson is the one forward you can kind of take out of the conversation like you're doing it. And that was true in the regular season too because Last postseason Dallas's 5 on 5 offense dries up, starts the year. It's the same thing. And Robertson is the one that kind of was breaking through the most. And in November and in December you were seeing it. That's how the Dallas Stars got back on track of 5 on 5. It was Jason Robertson. Okay, now everyone else needs to step up like White. Johnston can be one of the best scoring chance generators on the stylist. Stars teams got to do it more at 5 on 5. Miko Ransomen has not been noticeable enough at 5 on 5 and you're seeing weaker shots get through and just, you know, Wallstead's doing well. He's stopping what comes his way, but I don't think they're challenging him enough. And you know I don't think they're for checking enough. I don't think they're driving to the scoring areas. So the bottom six isn't going to do it for Dallas with Matt Duchene playing in the top nine. Top six, you don't have enough scoring pop in that bottom six. And that's where the hints injury really crushes them. So I think it's up to the big guns to be the big guns. And we know, you know, Johnston and Ransom and have that big game ability. Robertson's been doing it all series. This is the moment to do it. And the Brodin injury, I think opens the door to it a bit because Brodin and Spurgeon don't generate much offense in their minutes, but they've done a good job all year kind of keeping things as calm as possible in their minutes. So without him, the whole depth charts out of sorts. So this is the Stars moment to take advantage of it, but they really haven't done it so far.
- [46:20]
Max Boldman
I'll say this, and, like, it's easier said than done. This Minnesota team is loaded with stars. They can generate great offense. Getting Zuccarella back is huge for them. Loaded. Quinn Hughes, Brock Faber, Matt Bouldy, Krill, Caprizov. Like nuff said, if I'm the Dallas Stars, I kind of want Jake Ottinger to steal me at least one game in this series for what the contract is. He's in that. That group of goalies who I think are you would call the bankable goalies. But that's what I need from. From someone in that I need them to steal me a game probably on the road. I mean, this. This one is on the road. But that's. That's kind of what you want ideally, is you want them to go get you in a series, go steal me a road game and we'll do the rest. Tonight's the night for it for Jake Ottinger. If it's coming, it's got to be tonight.
- [46:59]
Shayna Goldman
Yeah, I think sometimes the injured stuff gets overhyped, like, oh, he doesn't have the playoff pedigree. And I think he's been fine in this series. There's also been some weak goals, and I think last game, it's the McCarran goal. You're like, okay. It just looked like Ottinger wasn't confident enough in that situation. It plays it like that's when he should have stopped. So you can't have that tonight. You can't afford it, especially when you're not getting goal support right like, that's the biggest problem for the Dallas Stars right now. But at the end of the day, you need your big guys to be your big guy. So if Ranson can't come to play the way that they need him to, you need it that Andre keeps, you know, as many pucks out of the net so the Stars can get away with a one nothing or a two one winner. You know, something in that situation, he has to be their guy and for all of the reasons. Right. Like the coaching staff didn't pull him in game one when that could have happened. Like, I think they've done a lot to make sure. Like, hey, you are our guy. Here's the, the confidence you need. So now you know, he has to reward them with that with a really strong game because Wallstead's been good. He hasn't had to be fantastic, but he's been the better, you know, the better, more reliable goalie at times in the series. Like, you're right. Sometimes you just need your stars to be your stars.
- [48:02]
Max Boldman
Yeah, I mean, both of them. I don't think Ottinger's been bad in this series. I don't think Rantman's been bad in this series. He's gotten his points. I mean they haven't been an even strength, but he's gotten them. But you, when you're paid like a building block, when the team is clearly geared around, around you being able to do what you do and I think that, that you have to deliver and I think that's just as true of Ottinger as it is in Random tonight. But it should be a very good one that is going to do it for us. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Athletic Hockey Show. Some big games on tap. I'm sure we'll have much more for you next week on those. Tomorrow though is the Prospect series. Scott, Corey, Chris and I are going to talk about the World U18 Championships. And spoiler alert, there is a lot of drama there. A lot of the big guns out of that tournament early. We've got some draft talk to as well, so that'll do it for us. We'll talk to you then. Bye.
- [48:48]
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