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- [00:00]
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- [01:01]
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- [01:45]
Max Boltman
This is the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. Hey everybody. Max Boltman here alongside the Athletics, Scott Wheeler and Corey Promman for another episode of the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. And today guys, we are talking about our early season takeaways, standouts, all kinds of things that have jumped out to us both at the NHL level and at the lower ranks in junior and among draft guys. So let's start in the NHL. And let's start with the guy who kicked off the draft this year because Corey Matthew Schaefer looks really good, really, really fast.
- [02:25]
Corey Promman
And it's not just that he looks good. I think we all understood the skating, the skill, the hockey synth were all excellent. It's just the immediate impact for a guy who was a couple of days away from being eligible for the 2026 draft, who didn't really play much hockey last season at 10 career OHL goals in his entire junior season and for him to step in right away. And I think we all thought he'd be good. Well, I, I thought he'd be good. I'm not going to speak for everybody in the world. But for him to basically be Josly in that first power play job away from Tony d' Angelo because of how good he's looked offensively to go with the solid defensive play as well. He just looks outstanding. You know, you think of the first overall defenseman guys like Dalene and Ekblad. Ekblad had obviously had like a, you know, a tremendous rookie season where, where it was quite historic at the time. Schaefer looks like he's got just as good a chance to be just as historic a rookie season if he continues to get this kind of opportunity. And he looks like a guy who's going to be a star number one defenseman, you know, I don't. I think the offense is going to level off here a little bit. He's not going to be a point per game defenseman as a rookie. 18 year old rookie. I don't think. Yeah, I could be wrong but it seems unlikely. But I think this guy is looks like that foundational piece you want when you're trying to rebuild if you're an Islanders fan.
- [03:42]
Max Boltman
There's some rhyme here, honestly into the way we were talking about Macklin Celebrini a year ago, right. This guy that we all knew was going to be a really impactful, really good all around player. But he comes into the league and it's really good right away and it's offense right away and we talk about this all the time like fair or not, we tend to judge players and young players on points and I don't know like would he be getting as much love as, as he is if he wasn't a point per game player? I don't know. Will that keep up? I don't know but like for a guy that you know, I don't think. I think we would all been super pumped if this guy had Miro Haskin in his rookie year. But because he's producing at an even higher rate, like we're going to talk about it at an even higher, higher level.
- [04:17]
Scott Wheeler
Scott jumping off of Corey's point on him taking the PP from Tony d' Angelo already we. This time last year that was not the case for Lane Hudson if everybody remembers. It took Lane Hudson. I don't know what the number of games was but it felt like it was like a quarter of the season, 20 something games before Mike Matheson was taken off of PP1 and it was handed over to Lane Hudson. So for him to be having that kind of a role the way that Patrick Waugh is Already talking about him. We saw him play 26 minutes a night. I was listening to the radio here in Toronto a couple of days ago and they were talking about could Matthew Schaefer be on the Olympic team? Like these conversations have, have taken on a life of their own early on in the season. I think all three of us would be pretty hesitant to put him in that kind of a conversation. But just the fact that people are having that conversation, and they may not be prospects people, but the fact that the mainstream media has latched onto him the way that they have, the fact that his coach seems to have latched on to him the way that, the way that he has, it's, it's pretty unbelievable. Like there is a 0% chance in my mind already that he's going to be playing for Canada at the World Juniors in December. Right. And for him to be doing that as an 18 year old defenseman in this league with the way that we've seen guys like Simon Nemech and David Jirachek and top picks on D really struggle to break into the league speaks to how special and different he is from your average high end D prospect.
- [05:42]
Corey Promman
It seems quite unlikely he will be on, on Team Candy at the Olympic team. Even if somehow we get to December and they felt like he was deserving of one of those spots, they had to have submitted their long list I think a couple of days ago and I'd be quite skeptical if he was on that list.
- [05:58]
Max Boltman
I think it was like after his first or second game we had Rob Rossi on the pod with Laz and I to talk like early season overreactions and one of Rossi's was Matthew Schaefer will win a Norris before the end of his elc. I think I like laughed when he said it and now I'm like, ooh, I hope, I hope I didn't laugh too loud because that might be getting clipped here a couple times before the end of the end of the year, certainly by the end of the contract. We'll see.
- [06:19]
Scott Wheeler
Rossi messaged me after a morning skate that he saw Schaefer in earlier this year. He messaged me after a morning skate saying that he was like the greatest skater he'd ever seen. So it's the, the, the excitement level is, is high and I hope it doesn't. We know the kid and it won't be too much for him, but I hope it doesn't get, get to a point where it's taken on a life of its own.
- [06:43]
Max Boltman
Yeah, well, speaking of taking on lives of Their own. I have been covering quite the wild rocket ship rise in Detroit here because Emmett Finney, Corey, I remember calling you four or five days into Red Wings camp when they moved from Traverse City back to Detroit and being like, just so you know, they're, they really like this kid. They're really excited about this kid. He's been really good and I think we even agreed on that call. Like, you know, it'd be a little ambitious to put him on the team right away to start. But not only is he on the team, he is on the first line and he is producing and a whole lot is going right for Emmett Finney right now with the Red Wings. He, he's making a real impact for them.
- [07:19]
Corey Promman
Yeah, I think that job on the left side of Dylan Larkin, Lucas Raymond was, was always a good position to be in. And depending on, you know, whether it was him or Brenson, Niagard or Copper or Nate Danielson or whoever would have won that job, you figured they would have been in a good position to get points. But credit to the kid, you know, he's 20 years old, he stepped into that lineup and he is doing a job on that line that helps those guys succeed with the way he competes, the pace he plays with, you know, all you can say is really positive things. I think you want to balance the fact that he looks really impressive by the fact that it's only been a handful of games and you don't want to. And I've seen this movie before with, with some players, sometimes it's legit and sometimes it carries forward for a long period of time and sometimes it levels off a little bit too. So I think like, I'm not sure what you've thought of him, Max, but like what would be your long term projection here? Because I would guess like middle six wing is probably the. What you're hoping the projection is right now with the, with the really high incompete level he has. But I'm not sure the, the brain, the Stick is like truly top level to be a major long term scorer.
- [08:29]
Max Boltman
Well, it's interesting. I, I would agree that the offense probably is not going to be at the level he's producing right now. I think he's like a versatile top nine kind of piece though. Right? And, and you talked about like the, the brain, like when I've been calling around on him in the last week or so. Sense is the thing everyone keeps coming back to. People really love his hockey sense and I see it because it's not just that he's like gritty and fast and wins these races and battles. It's when he gets the puck out of those, he does something really productive with it. He's putting it smart, even if it's a simple play smart play to the point he's finding the slot. So if that proves to be the case and the hockey sense is as good as it's looked so far and as good as I think people believe it could be, then that's where the path would be to maybe sticking it out as kind of that, you know, he's never going to, I don't think, be the, the most, you know, offensive piece on a line. But if, if he can do a lot of dirty work and, and then turn it into productive plays, that's where the, the optimism kind of comes in. So I, I think of him as a top nine and, and that's a big range, but I think it really speaks to his versatility. Play him as a checker or you can play him as a complimentary guy to your skill. Is that fair, Scott?
- [09:28]
Scott Wheeler
I think that's fair. I remember having a conversation with Sean Clouston, who's the head coach in Kamloops. This was coming out of the Memorial cup and he had played a very, very limited role. But I remember speaking with Clueston. I remember speaking with Robbie Sandland, who was the assistant GM of that team at the time and is now an amateur scout with the Pittsburgh Penguins. And they both, I was like, is there anybody on this team that's kind of flying under the radar? And they were, you'll remember they were loaded with Logan Stankhoven. And you go down the list and.
- [09:54]
Max Boltman
They said Harrison Brunicki was on that team, I believe.
- [09:56]
Scott Wheeler
Yep. This 16 year old kid is looks like a player. Like they both said that Emmett just looked like a hockey player. He kind of had to build at an early age. He could skate at an early age and he worked and was in the right spots and was consistently even in 10, 11 minutes a night on that team as a rookie. On that team he was consistently impactful. And then I remember sort of following up with them on him a couple of times over the course of the next couple of seasons before he obviously made the jump to the AHL late last year. And it was sort of this the same thing of man, he should have been in the conversation for Team Canada at their, at their World Junior Selection camp, which he wasn't invited to and he wasn't invited to the summer showcase last year either. But they kind of vouched for him. And they were in contact with Hockey Canada about him. And when they came out to see Harrison Brunicke, they kept pushing Emmett. And so there's certainly a camp of people that aren't surprised. And that sort of Swiss army knife can play with anybody, doesn't need to get touches, can play 10 minutes a night or 18 minutes a night. That's kind of been who he is. And he had to come from a very deep team and playing a role at an early age to being last year obviously the top dog on that team and one of the better players in the whl. So he's sort of. He's played different roles at different times, he's been a different player at different times in his career and he's now obviously playing that similar sort of style in the NHL.
- [11:18]
Corey Promman
We'll see where he ends up in three, four, five years when Brandon E. Garc develops a lot and Danielson's on the team and maybe even Carter Bears on the team and where all those forwards fit in the lineup. But I think what's been most important for Detroit isn't that they have a good young forward. It's where they got the good young forward in the seventh round of a draft. Like that's been kind of a key piece of this rebuild that they've been searching for is get. Get an NHL player outside the first round and we'll see again where exactly he. He fits over the course of his career. But if they got a legit NHL forward at the seventh round, that's the kind of pick that can really change the trajectory of your rebuild.
- [11:57]
Max Boltman
To no one's surprise. Right. I'm working on a bigger story on Finney right now and as part of it, I've been doing some research as to like how rare is this, how unprepared. One of the names that popped off to me because there's not a lot of seventh round picks that get to the NHL this quickly. Right. He's two years removed from being drafted and he's in the NHL. He's played seven games, he's put up six points. That's all rare. One of the names that jumped out to me was Andre Palat and I.
- [12:19]
Corey Promman
Was about to say that name. I was good at just the compete level and it's average frame, but it's good, it's big enough. Good skater. I definitely can see the comparison there.
- [12:30]
Max Boltman
Yeah, it'd be great for Detroit. They need that. That's what they've been missing along this whole build. So we'll See if Emmett Finney turns out to be that. I don't think any of us want to come on here and, you know, put the stamp on that quite yet, but it's been really encouraging. Couple more things in the NHL, Corey, that I wanted to get your thoughts on are two of the teams that have been rebuilding for a few years now. They're starting to see their. Their guys kind of reach the NHL and make a difference. The first of those two teams is the Anaheim Ducks.
- [12:54]
Corey Promman
Yeah, obviously they've been up to a decent start. I think they're three and three. And I think what's been impressive for them early in the year has been not just they've won a couple of games, but it's the way that they've looked over the course of the opening month, where they seem to have the puck a lot more than they're. We've seen in past years where they can tilt the ice, where those young guys are starting to develop physically and can create long stretches of even strength play where they have the puck. And you look up and down this lineup now with, you know, they. Beckett Seni looks like he might stick in the NHL. Mason McTavish has looked good. Cutter Go is looking good. Leo Carlson, I think, has looked excellent in the games I've watched. He looks like he might be taking a step here, becoming the guy we thought he could have been in his draft season. And there's a lot of full of guys with size, speed, skill. It's an exciting group, and I don't think it's outlandish to suggest that the Anaheim Ducks could compete for a playoff spot this year. We. We got a long way to go still, but we've always talked about the talent here, and if the talent started to take some positive steps in their development, I think it's reasonable to suggest this team could be in the mix.
- [14:02]
Scott Wheeler
I think Beckett. Beckett and Mason in particular are really big positives for them. Early on this year, Beckett had some tough night. I watched a couple of their preseason games, and Beckett was awful. And they were pretty vocal about how he just was. He didn't look like he was ready, and yet they gave him the opportunity to stick with. After a couple of strong games late in preseason, they gave him an opportunity to. To just figure it out and. And try to make it work and see where he was at. Likely because they felt he wasn't going back to Oshawa, wasn't in his best interest, and they just wanted to give him an. Give him a longer leash here and he has made the most of that longer leash. And we talked. It would have been a few podcasts ago now, but when my prospect tears came out, we Talked about Mason MacTavish and the way that the league had kind of turned on him. He was one guy who multiple scouts told me in the over the course of that project that I should move down a bucket or that head moved down a bucket or didn't belong with so and so in the same tier. So and so. And now with the start that Mason's had and maybe it was the coaching change. I know he didn't play a ton under Cronin last year and there was a lot of talk about the relationship with Cronin last year in Mason in terms of his usage and he moved down to their third line but he looks again like a, like a true top six guy. So. So credit to Mason and credit to, to Joel and, and that that coaching, that new coaching staff there because they seem to have a lot of those young guys clicking outside of maybe Jackson lacombe coming out of his, his huge deal. Jackson has sort of been off to a bit of a slower start. So a lot to like there about the way that those young guys are trending well.
- [15:38]
Max Boltman
And one thing that Anaheim has going for them, you know that a lot of these rebuilding teams don't always have right away is they have a good young goalie in Lucas to style who they can lean on. And that's true for the other team that I want to get, Yon Corey and that's the Blackhawk box because Spencer Knight looks like he can be a long term goalie for them.
- [15:54]
Corey Promman
Yeah, that's been the one of the few names that I've heard consistently around the league. The early talk here is a Spencer Knight looks back and he looks and you know goalies can really be volatile in it and how they play on a game to game, week to week, even month to month basis. But Spencer's always had the talent, very athletic, very intelligent, very know technically structural goalie and he's been very impressed with Chicago early on been a big part of their success. I think we kind of feel like, you know, he's, if his play levels off a little bit that they'll probably not wouldn't just as quite as many games. We still kind of feel there's still some more work there to be done in Chicago. But I think you have to be really excited by how Knight has looked. You got to be really excited by how there are two young centers in Connor Bernard and particularly Frank Nazar has looked. Nazar has been arguably their best skater so far this season and he's a guy who, you know, we mentioned Schaer wasn't on the long list. I don't think Knight was on the long list for Team usa, probably deserved to be, but Nazar was on the long list. So I, I think he's at least trying to make himself competitive for one of those Top 14 forwards right now and we'll see how his game progresses here in the coming months. But that's obviously a positive story. And then kind of outside the NHL, Anton Frondell has been excellent the SHL this year, you know, one of the better draft plus 1 SHL seasons, at least a start that I can remember with. You know, I, I watched your Garden play live once and he was just okay for me in that game. But you saw the displays of, of high end skill and he's looks like a top prospect. And you know, we, when we were going doing the draft lead up, I mentioned how there were times you watched Rundell and I thought there were moments and even games where I thought he looked like the second best prospect in last year's draft and those moments weren't consistent. And I still think that's the case with this player. But man, when he, there are some plays he makes that are really elite and he definitely has looked like a top prospect in the opening parts of this SHL season as we record this too.
- [17:58]
Scott Wheeler
Roman Cancerov scored again today. Roman Cancerov now leads all U23 scorers in the KHL. He's at playing at a point per game. Nick Lardis as we record this, is the leading scorer in the ahl. And Oliver Moore as we record this is the second or third leading scorer in the ahl. So a lot trending in the right direction with some of those kids. Sacha boy Ver has been out with a bit of an injury early on this season and has been late to sort of get into action at BU after the transfer there from North Dakota. But they're expecting, I think, to get Cancerov at the end of this KHL season. You start to look at adding Cancerov, adding Bovaire potentially at the end of this season. Maybe Nick Lardis plays his way into the mix at some point here. Not all of those guys are going to become NHL players on the same team, especially at the size that we've talked about with many of those kids. But it's hard not to be positive about the way that Lardis and Cancerov and Moore and some of those kids are playing early on.
- [18:54]
Corey Promman
And I think when we start talking about Team Canada as World Junior Team in a week or two, I think Marek Vaneker is going to be in the conversation there for a bottom six buck.
- [19:02]
Max Boltman
Well, that's a good segue there as we start to get the Chicago system, because when we get back from this break, we're going to talk about what stood out outside the NHL. We'll do that right after this.
- [19:14]
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- [19:54]
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- [21:29]
Max Boltman
All right, we are back and before the break, one of the names that Corey brought up was Merrick, Vaneker, Scott and and that's a guy that you are going to be very familiar with because he just back from spending some time with the Brantford Bulldogs. They are the top team by win percentage in the OHL so far and one of the top teams certainly in all of Canada right now. So what did you learn from that, the time you spent up there in Brantford?
- [21:50]
Scott Wheeler
I learned that they are an incredibly deep talent pool and that everything seems to be clicking for just about everybody on their roster. If you pull up their their roster on elite prospects right now, for example, you would see I think it's double digit guys who are playing at point per game. They have three or four defensemen who are playing at a point per game and the talent level of that group is high, high end. The weekend that I embedded with them they were playing the Windsor Spitfires who are the their biggest challenger. The Windsor Spitfires and the Brantford Bulldogs are the two best teams in the OHL this year. And the Spitfires of course have Ethan Belkatz and Jack Nesbitt and Liam Greentree and they're this big strong team. AJ Spellis, they can fly. And on the other side of the ice you had this contrast with the group that that includes Vaneker and Adam Banach and Caleb Malhotra has been a really, really, really nice positive and has pushed his way into the first round conversation in this year's draft. They've got another kid, Aiden o', Donnell, who looks like he'll be a mid round pick in this year's draft. They added Cooper Dennis who's a Michigan commit who is one of the most talented players in the OHL this season. But he's really, really on the small side. Adam Jerich came back from a really positive camp, really, really positive camp in St. Louis for Adam Yurich and has helped that blue line which also has Owen PR who's in the mix for Team Canada at the World Juniors. And Corey mentioned Vaneker being in the mix. Adam Banach's going to going to be a star at the World Juniors. I don't quite think that Jake o' Brien frankly is really in the mix. Like I think he's a part of the conversation. He was obviously at the World Junior Summer showcase, but Jake O' Brien's probably more of a 2027 player for team Canada.
- [23:29]
Corey Promman
I think it depend on what happens with guys like Catton and Misa. Do they get, if they don't get both of those guys back, I think he could get in the mix there, yeah.
- [23:38]
Scott Wheeler
But it's a, it's a fun team man and, and it speaks to both those that team and the Windsor team speak to the fact that there's still a lot of talent in the OHL despite some of the exodus to college. These teams have have managed to add in other ways. They wouldn't have had Cooper Dennis a year ago. They wouldn't have had Caleb Malhotra from the bchl. They wouldn't have had Vladimir Dravecki who's probably a late first, more likely a second round pick in this year's draft who's also playing at a point per game as a defenseman in that league. It's the teams have managed to add talent in other ways and Brantford's a huge example of that.
- [24:13]
Max Boltman
Well and that's kind of the vision that people have laid out when they talk about why this can work for both sides of that right. The CHL side and the NCAA side is like on one one hand, yeah you are going to lose your Malcolm Spence's, your Kaden Lindstrom people who are going to go to the NCAA instead of playing their age 19 or age 20 season in the CHL. On the other hand, like you look at Kamloops and JP Hurlburt, Scott has been one of the best players in Canada to begin this year. He was not going to be going he's a Michigan commit. He was not going to be going north of the border here if not for that rule change.
- [24:44]
Scott Wheeler
No. And it's been a really tough watch. If I don't know how much Corey has watched of of the U18 team at the NTDP but coming off of a pretty tough age group last year, it's been an even tougher watch this year. And part of that is because of the departure of Hurlbird who has having is having that kind of Ben Kindle Cole Reschne level season at the moment. Like he's not the biggest kid. He's not. I wouldn't say his skill level is even dynamic or that he has sort of a clear identity as a player and it I think people are still trying to figure him out but but he has been producing at a almost above a two point per game clip. He's been very very impressive. They've got him wearing a letter for them. He can play center, he can play the wing and he has been a huge addition. The WHL talent pool this year took more of a hit than the Ohls did. So I think there is a little bit of a quality of competition adjustment that teams are going to have to make with some of the WHL kids Here you look at the top of their sort of scoring table, if you will, today as we sit here recording and it's not filled with the Berkeley Cattons and the Gavin McKenna's and the Connor Bedards and the kids that have come through that league over the last few years. And that you look at the Ohls and it still does feel like you're looking at an OHL scoring table in terms of the top 10 or 20 guys or high end, high end prospects. So I think there's a little bit of that that has benefited Hurlburt. But if he keeps playing like this, I think teams are going to have to start to talk about him as a solid middle of the first round guy. And that was not a conversation that anybody was having about JP entering this season. I think everybody respected this skill level and was curious about him, but he was not viewed as a first round player.
- [26:29]
Corey Promman
I think those conversations are already happening from what I've heard. To be quite honest. I think that he's got some pretty high end skill and I think his skating is just okay for a guy his size. But I think he's definitely in that conversation.
- [26:41]
Max Boltman
When I remember the first few times I saw him, I was thinking I was seeing a Ryan McColl Eiserman here. But it sounds like, you know, if you're, if you're talking about wearing the letter and some of the names that you brought up, Scott Kindle and Reshni, I mean Corey is. Is there more of a, of a two way game there than Iserman had?
- [26:56]
Corey Promman
No, I don't think, I think he's not those guys. But he's not Eisenman either. I think he's a guy who's very skill driven and he has a, he has a really good shot. Like I think of like Oliver Bjorkstrand a little bit when I've watched him. Remind me a little neck what that player looked like in the Western League. Like I think it's really high end skill, you know, really good offensive sense and creativity good. Not great skater, probably competes well enough, but it's not a, like he does not a Cole Reschni who's going to be a two way forward in the NHL even at 511. But you know, I think you're kind of hoping for like a middle six wing who can score. I think that's, that's, that's the projection. But Eiserman scores a different way than Eisenhower and Eisenman's purely through his shot. I think Hurlburt has A good shot, but I think he's more of a creative player with the puck.
- [27:39]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah.
- [27:40]
Max Boltman
All right. Well, we talked about Brantford and one of the top teams in Ontario. Let's talk about one of the top teams in Quebec, Corey, because in Blaineville your guys. Javier Villeneuve is one of just a couple really good prospects leading the way for that team.
- [27:51]
Corey Promman
Oh, well, you look at what Justin Carbon has done since the Blues sent him back and I think you start at least some minor conversations of whether he should have gone to college. I know that was, that was a conversation for him. He's scoring just an insane clip right now. And I think even before he went there, I think Blaineville was scoring at like a six or seven goals per game pace. And Spencer Gill, the Philly pick is still not in the lineup. They're still waiting on a first round pick and Bill Zonen to come back from injury from the Penguins camp and this team is just going to run over that league. And yeah, you mentioned Villanueva. He's going to. He's the clear top defenseman again in that league. And Carbono could have like an Anthony Manta like year where he goes a goal per game in the queue. It's. I mean they kind of feel like they're. Unless something really wonky happens, you know, Caleb Denoy comes back and Moncton really finds a way to add a lot of pieces. It feels like they're the clear favorite to go to the MEM cup from the Quebec side.
- [28:49]
Scott Wheeler
He, he very nearly. Carbono very nearly went to BC too. Like he called them the night before he posted that announcement that he was going back to Blaineville to, to inform them that he had made the decision not to go. And I think part of it was coming out of here. He had an excellent, excellent, excellent rookie development camp and then rookie tournament with the Blues. And I think the Blues sort of view him as a guy who could have gone one and done in junior and not necessarily one and done in college and that influenced the decision and his play in camp sort of influenced his decision to just go torch that league and then turn pro immediately after this season kind of thing. But man, oh man, oh man, he would have been a huge addition for bc.
- [29:31]
Max Boltman
Speaking of teams that are kind of dominating their leagues, not dominating, but teams that are off to really good starts in their leagues, like this one's a little bit more out of left field. I think we could have seen Brantford coming. I think we could have seen to an extent Blaineville coming. Michigan in the NCAA And I know I went to Michigan. I'm not just trying to, trying to pump my school here. They're way better than I thought they would be this early into the season here at 6.0with a couple of big wins over Providence.
- [29:52]
Scott Wheeler
Scott yeah, they've had a soft schedule. Providence was ranked seventh when Michigan was ranked ninth. So their sweep that weekend was a testament to maybe everybody sleeping on Michigan a little bit. There are other two weekend sweeps have been pretty clean, pretty clean cut, but they were against much weaker competition in Robert Morrison. But they've been, man, they've been impressive. And we, I remember talking with Peters on our show sort of leading into the season. We talked a little bit of college and remember we all sort of looked at Michigan and wondered with that recruiting class and just how many guys they brought in from the chl, how many young guys, even names like Matthew Mania. I remember we talked about Henry Muse and we worried about what they would play like in front of Jack Ivan Kovic and whether they would have some tough nights. And maybe they still will have some tough nights. But when you look around college hockey through six, six games for most teams, four for some others, and you look at the standouts from college hockey, I think a lot of the names come from Michigan. Jack Ivankovic has been excellent. Will Horkoff wasn't a new addition via the chl, but Will Horkoff, I think, has raised his stock with his play early on this season. Malcolm Spence has immediately become an impact guy at that level. And Michael Hage is, is clearly one of the most talented players in college hockey this season. So a lot of positives early on and they've. They've looked like it's just been pretty tidy. They haven't looked sloppy defensively. They' they haven't struggled keeping the puck out of their net. Part of that is Jack, I think, being an excellent goalie. But they've been, they've been impressive early on and I'll be interested to see once they get into some of their conference play and a bit of a tougher schedule, whether this can sort of keep up.
- [31:34]
Corey Promman
I was just going to say that. I mean, I have a hard time with college hockey getting overly excited about anybody till the conference games start. And I mean, there's some really tough matchups. I mean, you know, I watched that BU Michigan State series this weekend. The non conference games are always something I struggle with when it comes to evaluating the first month of college hockey. I try not to get too excited about any teams or players when they're you know, sometimes they're playing really good teams. You mentioned Michigan play Providence. The bu Michigan State series this, this past weekend was fantastic. But for the most part it's the conference schedule changes things significantly and we've, I've seen a lot of times over the years where guys have a really good first month and then when November and December rolls around, they level off. So we'll see how some of these guys productions goes in the, in the coming weeks. And obviously this can be a conversation when we get to Gavin McKenna again, for example.
- [32:28]
Max Boltman
No, for sure. And, and to me it's not even so much that they're 6 0, it's just that they, they've put it together so completely. To Scott's point. Like talking to Brandon Nerado before the season started, I know he was excited about this group. I just, my impression was that's probably going to be something that builds throughout the course of the year. I've been impressed at how fast it has happened for them. And then, hey, in the state of Michigan, you got Michigan State, which is the number one team in the country. You got Western Michigan, the reigning national champs. And if Michigan's back in it, there could be a whole lot of good hockey around these parts.
- [32:59]
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- [34:34]
Corey Promman
I don't expect him to be a point per game player this year. I love Boyum, but that's probably not realistic. You know, we had this conversation a lot with with when we have this kind of player. You know, if a guy is really power play driven, getting a lot of secondary assists on the power play, that's not something that you think is gonna persist over 82 games. Although I as we discussed in the preseason, I do think he's going to be in the call to conversation. I think he looked really impressive offensively. His defense in the early on has looked so so in the game a couple of games I've watched, you know, could he have a 50, 60 point season similar to what Hudson did last year? Like I think that's I think that's.
- [35:12]
Max Boltman
Definitely in the cards next one. I'm gonna go to Corey on this one too because I think it's directed at him from RK after the start Matthew Schaefer has had, would you still project Luke Hughes above him long term as you did in the U23 rankings? He also says this is this even right? He says you had Hughes skating ranked high end but Schaer's only above average. Did you have that? I thought you loved Schaer skating.
- [35:32]
Corey Promman
I did and I do love Schaer and I did have Hughes above him. But I think it'd be closer right now. I also think it'd be kind of weird to drag on Luke right now. I mean the Devils have been, you know, rocket ship to start the season. He's playing a lot of minutes for them and he's doing he's getting offense without first power play minutes too. Which G and Dougie Hamilton so know they're both great players and I think they both project this number one defenseman. But I definitely probably would say it's closer or maybe even flip it after seeing how he's looked versus pros. But you don't try to change your opinions too much based on not even a dozen games.
- [36:07]
Max Boltman
Schaefer skating though like you you don't you you stay with it at above average or you'd go a tier higher.
- [36:12]
Corey Promman
I debated I would need to watch more but I that's the tier I had going into the draft and I would say I'd maintain that right now but reasonable people could disagree.
- [36:22]
Max Boltman
Okay. We might have a couple reasonable people on this Show. Let's go to Scott next here. Joe Rosen wants to know who your top three for the Calder would be as of now.
- [36:31]
Scott Wheeler
The Calder conversation, I think, has to be led at this stage in the season by Matthew Schaefer. Just the impact that he's made on the Islanders organization already. But if I look beyond that sort of Matthew Schaefer conversation, I think the names that you gravitate towards maybe aren't the ones that we, we quite thought. I think Ivan Demidov is probably at the fringes of a top three. He made a really nice play last night and is only playing 13, 14 minutes a night here, but I think Demidov's probably not. If I were doing a ranked ballot, I think he's probably more 4 or 5 than the 1, 2, 3 conversation that we, we thought he'd be in. I wonder about Nikishin and the way that he's played in Carolina. I know he's not playing huge minutes. I think he's only playing 16, 17 minutes a night. And it's been odd that they haven't used him on the power play with some of the injuries that they've had, but he's been very, very good. Like, you look at some of his underlying numbers, even the counting stats, the plus minus, the things that voters will gravitate towards. Alex has been a really, really solid addition to that blue line. So I think you're, you're probably looking at, at a lot of the D early on, honestly. Like I Jimmy Snug Root's been good, but he hasn't been great. I don't think Beckett would be a front runner in the conversation based off the role that he's played. I don't think Demidov's or one or two on ballots right now, but it's again, we're, we're in the early going here. Like, Demidov could absolutely be in the conversation. Jimmy Snug could absolutely be in the conversation.
- [38:02]
Corey Promman
It would be, I think for me, Schaefer's the clearly one and then it'd be some combination of Demidov, Bo Nishan and Senica.
- [38:14]
Max Boltman
For me, I think that tracks. And I, I, I think we are, I don't know if we talked about this when we first said the episode and stuff, but I felt like when Cider won the Calder, there was a shift that went from like, oh, you have to be so good as a D. You have to be like so leaps and bounds ahead to us, like treating D as, as favorites earlier. And I think that that is held true since. And I think this year is a great example of like we're, we're giving plenty of love to the D because they deserve it.
- [38:39]
Corey Promman
Are you saying the media is smarter now?
- [38:41]
Max Boltman
I would like to think we educated the media. Yes, exactly. Scott, Hockey wants to know who's a draft eligible this season that hasn't had the year you expected to this point.
- [38:52]
Corey Promman
Corey, Ryan, Ruber, he's been awful. Like just plain awful. Like I think Max, you and I went to go watch him play once and he, he didn't, he didn't give a out there in terms of his effort level. And that's kind of been the story all year. He's big, he can skate, he's got skill, he can shoot the puck. But like he's starting to remind me a lot of Lyndon Lakovic in terms of how he's looking this season with, with the compete issues. And he needs to turn around significantly now or he's not going to go close to where we thought he was going to go a month ago.
- [39:25]
Max Boltman
Yeah, we got to that game, it was Windsor and Niagara and we were going to watch these two top. You know, I'm not gonna say they're both power forwards because I don't necessarily think that's Rubrik's game. But these, these two big body forwards go head to head and it was supposed to be like a, oh, which one's better? And by the end of the second period, Corey, I think there was like just no doubt at how much better Belkitz was. He was on the score sheet, he was on the puck more, he was physical off the puck. Like it wasn't even a question. I think we were actually. The game was a blowout. Windsor was, was beating him so bad we were like delaying our exit just trying to give Rubric one more shift to show us something and it, it just didn't happen. So it has been a slow start there. Scott, do you have an answer on this question? A draft eligible who hasn't had the year you expected?
- [40:05]
Scott Wheeler
I've had multi. Just to piggyback on that. I've had multiple scouts sort of remark to me over text that they're super, super down on, on Rubrik right now. So I think that's a theme across the league. Teams want to see him compete more and use his size more and be more involved in the game and he really, really tends to come and go. He's very talented for his size and I mean he had almost 90 points last year, which we have to remember. But he, you watch him and Belket side by side, and it's a, it's a stark contrast both in terms of play style and in terms of just the consistency of their, their work ethic. So I've been disappointed in, in Rubrik 1. One name that has sort of. I just finished my draft ranking and it'll be out in about a week here. But the one name that I've spent a lot more time on in the early going is Albert Smits, the Latvian defenseman who's playing split time, splitting time between junior in Finland and pro in Finland. He has made. He's like a six, three and a half defenseman and he has made some unbelievable plays with the puck on his stick, like circling the zone, dancing through traffic, beating three or four guys inside the offensive zone to score a goal or to set up a goal back door. Now, the finished junior level where he made some of those plays is not the OHL, is not even the J20 level. It's equivalent in Sweden, especially nowadays. It's taken a hard hit in recent years and I think you're going to see more and more of those kids flock to the CHL through the import draft process now that there are three import slots on each team. But even at the pro level in liga, which again isn't the shl, isn't the khl, and has taken a hit over the last few years, he's scoring goals and making plays and at that size with the hands that he seems to have, that has struck me like, like he looks like a first round talent. And all day to me, and he wasn't a player that I'd even watched all that much of coming into this season.
- [42:03]
Corey Promman
I think I have my top 15 coming into the year. Just saying.
- [42:09]
Max Boltman
All right, there's Corey's, Corey's flex of the day here. All right, next one comes from Nabil Raymond. He says still really early on. But does McKenna's start to the NCAA season feel similar, feel and look similar to James Hagan's a year ago? Corey?
- [42:23]
Corey Promman
Yeah, that's kind of been the elephant in the room right now in the hockey world is the slow start to the year for Gavin McKenna, whose season kind of is following a similar way that Owen power season went in his draft year where he was really good against Arizona State in his first weekend, which was what McKenna did, getting a lot of points against Arizona stage and then the subsequent weekends, you know, not quite as productive. And I think there's some distinction between him and Higgins in that. I think Hagan when you watched him in college, he really, really struggled even strength sometimes. And I think McKenna has had his struggles at even strength. There's definitely been a game or two where it looks like the only times he really does anything is on the power play. But there's been a couple of games of his. I mean, I've watched all six of his games where he makes a lot happen at even strength and the puck just hasn't gone in. So I think there's some notable differences there. You know, I'm not willing to call his year like a disappointment or he's, he's coming down. But I think the start has at least begged the question of is this guy the. No doubt for sure. No way he's not going number one or is he more like a. He's probably number one. But we'll see how the next few months goes, which I think is a fair assessment. I mean, I think, I don't think he's leading score among draft ells right now. I think that's Ilia Morozov at the University of Miami at the moment. And I expect in the coming months McKinnon's going to get his points and he's going to go off. He's going to have a great world juniors and he's still the clear favorite to be the first pick. But all I do think there are some concerns. I think there are some concerns in how he handles physical play. I think his compete level has been an issue at times for evaluators. He can get boxed out a little bit, plays on the outside. There's some things he has to clean up. But six games, you don't want to completely wipe out his incredible junior career over six college games. So we'll see how the, the coming weekends go.
- [44:17]
Max Boltman
Yeah. Along those same lines. Scott, Pat Steele in our discord and reminder. If you'd like to be able to ask us questions at, you know, on the discord or submit for this mailbag there, you can certainly join our discord for the Athletic Hockey Show. But Pat Steele, Scott says very early, but would you agree that it's an underwhelming year to be picking first, given McKenna's struggle? So I guess we could probably have this conversation about like really the, the state of the top five, six, seven of this class.
- [44:42]
Scott Wheeler
No, I don't think it's an underwhelming year. Like, I don't think this is your eyes. Lafkovsky or Nico. He Sure. Or sort of the years that we would qualify, quote unquote, as below Average first overall picks. I don't think this is Taylor hall or Ryan Nugent Hopkins. I think those are the years that I would maybe put into that bucket. I think I still believe that Gavin is going to be a high end, high end star winger in the NHL who's a point per game talent and a top player on his team like that. I. Despite the way that it's gone for him, despite the sort of mixed bag of his performances night to night and some of the struggles that he's had with the physicality and with the quality of the competition and reaching in and maybe not being as involved off the puck as. As teams would like him to be, I still think that, that the skill is high end and he's probably. I was texting with someone about it last night. Someone asked me whether I was disappointed in McKenna and I we were sort of going back and forth on it and I sort of came to the conclusion that I think he's probably going to have a four point game around the corner here and then some of this is going to settle down a little bit. So he'll be all right. And I still think he's a higher grade prospect than what I would qualify as a disappointing first overall year.
- [46:00]
Corey Promman
I'd say hindsight is 22. Whatever. I thought Taylor hall in his draft here, he was a great prospect. Like that was a legit first overall pick way back in 2010. I do, I agree with Scott. I think McKenna, which has been my assessment for a year now and one that was controversial apparently in the summer and not so much anymore that I thought he was a standard first overall pick and that's kind of what I still think right now. However, if we get two months into the year and there's still some issues propping up and then I think you can start having that conversation. But we're not going to have that conversation six games into the season.
- [46:36]
Max Boltman
All right. And then because Pat Steele is one of our Discord members, I'm going to give him a bonus. Second question. He submitted two Corey, so this one will go to you. He wants you to compare belkids, Rubric and McQueen all at the same age.
- [46:47]
Corey Promman
Well, I don't think there are any. Any of those three guys are really alike. I mean Rubric is, you know, not like his compete level is way worse than those other two. McQueen's more of like a playmaker with the, with his size. I think his compete is fine. Good. It's not like a selling point, but he's just the 65 guy who could skate and dangle, you know, Whereas Belkat, he's a power forward. Like, he is a hard guy. He creates athenet. He could be really physically overwhelming to opponents. Not sure if he's a super creative player with the puck, but he's got skill, you know, he really reminds me a lot of like, Slafkovsky at the same age. I think that's the easy name to compare him to, you know, whereas, like, McQueen was more like a Tage Thompson type. You're hoping if he hits and he's been off to a slow start in college, we'll see how the rest of his. How the rest of his year goes. But yeah, rubrics to me is like not in that conversation right now.
- [47:43]
Max Boltman
All right, well, that's going to do it for us. Thanks for listening to this episode of the athletic hockey show prospect series and for watching us on YouTube. YouTube. We'll talk to you soon.
- [47:56]
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- [48:58]
Scott Wheeler
Morning, Zoe.
- [48:59]
Max Boltman
Got donuts.
- [49:00]
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Well, I dig the mattress and I.
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Max Boltman
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Madupa Akinola
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So what are we having for launch?
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