Shayna Goldman (3:09)

Was amazing. It was so good. So the funny part is I was at MSG two weeks earlier for Rangers, jets, and there were points in that game where I'm like, I feel like you can hear a pin drop. And the entire time we're sitting there, we're like, this is going to be so different in two weeks. Like, we both knew it. Like, this is going to be a vibe and just everything about it, like, you get off the train, you see people in sirens jersey. So like, you're automatically excited because it just feels different. And then the game doesn't even. Isn't even started yet. You're 30 minutes out, there's pregame skate going on and warmups. And the vibes are incredible already. Like, the energy in the stands, people are beaming. So excited. There are merch lines. You would think you're at like an Olivia Rodrigo concert at MSG with the merch lines, especially because there was that Together shirt for sale.

Haley Salvia (3:55)

Oh, the one? Yeah.

Shayna Goldman (3:57)

Yep. It was sold out by the end of the first period when I went to check. But it, it was so much fun. Like, the energy was just infectious. The we Woo chants were amazing. The game was great too, but it just felt different. And I know that's like such a broad thing to say, but it honestly did because you could just feel the enthusiasm, not just like, for the league as a whole and not just like, as a gimmicky thing. And I think that's the difference. Like, a few weeks ago, my friend went to the one in Denver and she had gone each year and she's like, the first year you go, there's a lot of kids there and a lot of families. She's like, you go the next year. And it's just adults that are so locked in on the game that it adds like a realness to everything, that everyone's just there because you want to see this competitive game. So there's the novelty of seeing Hillary Knight here, but there's also like a huge game going on and everybody was locked in from start to finish.

Haley Salvia (4:48)

What was so cool, too, and I'm glad you mentioned Hillary Knight was, um, during the Dream Gap tour, which was what the players in the PWPA were doing before the league launched, they had a game at Madison Square Garden, but it was during the pandemic, so there was no fans. And I saw this video from Mary Kay Messier with Bauer and Billie Jean King, like, stood there and gave a little speech to the players of, like, keep fighting. Like, this is your moment. Like, I know there's not that many people here, but, like, this is a big moment for you guys. Like, keep, keep pushing. Keep doing this. And Hillary Knight was in that game. Yeah. There's like, 20 people in the building because of the pandemic. It's Billie Jean King and Mary Kay Messier and, like, staff members and the players, and that's it. And so for Hillary Knight to then, like, have this moment on top of, like, all the incredible ones this player has had in her career to. Then she's the only player who played in that Dream Gap Tour game. That was in the MSG game last weekend, this weekend. And I just thought that was very cool for, like, her and everyone to get to experience, like, a full barn in that building. Specifically, even Billie Jean King, like, she did the puck drop. Her and Alana Claus were there. Flo J. Johnson, which I thought was very cool, actually, the LSU basketball star. And I'm hoping she gets drafted by the Toronto tempo. That'd be very fun for me. But even Billie Jean King said, I don't think I've ever heard it that loud. And that is somebody who has done many, many big events at Madison Square Garden. I just thought it looked. It was just such a perfect moment for the league. It was just very cool.

Shayna Goldman (6:28)

Yeah. Yeah. And I think the game delivering the drama the way it did, like, the game was without that. And then you have a tying goal and everybody's going nuts. And like, I've been. I've been in that building for NHL playoff games. I have been, you know, where there is excitement, it just. It felt. It's like you could feel the momentum building. Right. And I think that Hillary Knight moment that you mentioned is so cool because it truly is full circle to see how far everything has come to be selling out this building. And I get it. It's like, well, there's one off game here. And, you know, obviously there's going to be excitement, but I do honestly feel like if they played, say, five or six games next year there, that excitement would still be there. Maybe there'd be more of it. Maybe it'd be a healthier Sirens team that's, you know, a little higher in the standings, that then there's even more traction. Right. Because it's such a stacked Draft class. Coming into this, it just felt, it felt like the players rose to the occasion. It felt like the fans rose to the occasion. And it was, it was sick. Everything about it was sick. Down to the drone crashing on the ice, which you're just like, what is happening? But even that, like, I saw the shots of that too and it felt like that was next level. It's like everything just came together the right way.

Haley Salvia (7:40)

Yeah, they, they did a big one with that. And yeah, the Sarah Philly, a game tying goal, I was like, that was very cool too because this is a player who like made the commitment to stay in New York. Like, she wants to build something, they're building it around her. And so like that was like big players come up in big moments. Like, what a huge goal for a critically important piece of the Sirens. And if that team ends up, you know, they're still playing relevant hockey in April, which is a step up from the last two seasons. Right. But if that's a Sirens team that's going to compete for Walter Cups, it's going to be Sarah Philly, it's going to be Christina Kelton Cova, who didn't play in that game. She's on ltr. It's going to be Casey o' Brien and whatever, you know, incredible first round pick they get this year because like you said, it's stacked. So that game was unbelievable. Peter Baugh went in my stead and I hate him for it. I'm super jealous. I had like a commitment here in Toronto so I couldn't go and I was super bummed. But I'm very happy that you got to experience that like literally just as a fan, like Peter in the press box, fine, like go do your job. But like for you to just get to go and experience that because you've been in the women's hockey stratosphere for a long time too. So it's very cool that you got to just go and sit and vibe and enjoy it.

Shayna Goldman (8:55)

You know, when the games are in New Jersey, it's a little easier for me. And it's fun too because, like down to getting tickets, it was hard. Like, it was not. We, we wanted it that we could go as this massive group and we couldn't. And even that you get excited about because it shows the growth. Right? Like, it's not easy to get tickets here. It's not easy to it. It's in demand for good reason. I mean, everything about it. I, I was like on cloud nine the entire game down to the shootout. I've never watched a shootout where people are more enthusiastic in my life. Every single shout out to Almost Forsberg

Haley Salvia (9:28)

pulling the puck off the line like crazy.

Shayna Goldman (9:31)

Everyone's on their feet like liter time. The sirens shot the bug. Everyone's standing up the whole last minute of regulation. Everyone sitting up in overtime. You're basically on your feet the whole time because it was that. It was that back and forth, it was that exciting.

Haley Salvia (9:46)

That's awesome. I love that. I'm so glad that you were there. Okay, let's transition to some NHL news, though. Alex Ovechkin, he kind of announces. He announces it. He says it in an interview. He's not made a final decision on his playing future. He said this in an interview with Caps team broadcaster John Walton. He said in that that he's going to make that decision in the summer. That comes out just before morning skate before the Washington Capitals play the Toronto Maple Leafs yesterday. That's Wednesday. The biggest factor in his decision, Ovechkin said, was, quote, health wise. I'm going to be 41, so you just have to be smart about it. Even at 40, he leads the Caps and goals right now, and he's hit the 30 mark for the 20th time in his career. So, while OV moles it over Shayna, what do you think? Like, what would you like to see him do? Just hang it up, say sayonara, that was a great run. Or do you want to see him come back?

Shayna Goldman (10:44)

I mean, I think he's someone that has earned that farewell tour.

Haley Salvia (10:48)

Yes.

Shayna Goldman (10:49)

So, you know, if, if he wants to come back, go off. Because, I mean, I think sometimes you see it with players, you're like, well, their game's declined so much and there are elements of his game that is, that have absolutely declined. But like you said, like, this is someone who can still score goals. That's his bread and butter. And there's a way to maximize him in the lineup that the Caps can just keep running it and have him cook as long as he wants to. Because, sure, Most players at 40 years old are completely, you know, a shell of themselves. But when you start at such an elite level, like, your agent curve is going to be above average, and for him, it still is on the score sheet. So, you know, he's earned the right to take, take a moment, take a beat, side whatever's best for him, and then whatever happens, happens. But it does feel like the greatest goal scorer of all time should get one. One last tour around the NHL.

Haley Salvia (11:35)

Yeah. So that's the one thing I don't want to say I was disappointed about, but I think him, like, let's say he announces in August that he's done, he's retiring. Like, you kind of miss out on the moment, as you said, to, like, tour around, like, fans. And I think there are some fans and some people who are like, hey, I'm gonna go to the game in Toronto because the Leafs stink, but maybe I'll see Obi for the last time. Like, there's a bit of, like, maybe I'll go see him one more time. Like, they're playing in Pittsburgh. You've got Penguins fans. We're like, maybe we can see Crosby Novechkin one more time. But there's this element of uncertainty there versus full on celebration. So part of me kind of wishes that we would have seen a full decision get made so everyone can come and say, like, this is it. Let's go celebrate this guy and his career on his way out. But obviously, if he's at a point where he's like, I'm going to take the summer and really decide, like, obviously respect that too. It's more just like, I love the retirement tour. I really do. And, like, as someone, I went to, like, Kobe Bryant's last game ever in Toronto. And like, those are just moments that are very cool when, you know, it's like, this guy is never going to be here again. The energy just shifts. So that's the only thing I was like, take your time. I guess it's an important decision. But, like, what about me?

Shayna Goldman (13:10)

Yeah, no, but that's fair, because I feel like lesser players have gotten these big retirement tour moments too. And here it is. You have, like, the greatest goal score of our time, one of the best offensive threats of all time, that it's like, okay, if anyone should get that last run, that last whip around, that last chance to be like, you know what? I'm. I'm going to score one on you, too. Why not add a couple more goalies to the list? Because, you know, it just keeps going. He's still. He's still producing. It's just, how can the Capitals manage his game? Because I think already we've seen him, like, tweak some things, even just being less physical, like a little bit less, you know, energy spent in one indirection is going to help him sustain it in another. But, yeah, it just feels like of all players, he should get that chance if he wants it. I also don't blame a player that's like, I don't want it. I don't want all the fanfare. I had it because he did, like, look at last season was a prime example.

Haley Salvia (14:03)

Last year. Yeah.

Shayna Goldman (14:04)

Yeah. He has a Stanley Cup. He has the record now. Whatever he does is just extra so. You know, I think. I think it's nice to see a player, like, take a moment, think about it, and he. If he knows if he doesn't continue, he's not going to get that. That might be fine by him, too.

Haley Salvia (14:18)

Yeah. Because you don't want to be like the Tom Brady and say you're done, and then it's a week before the season and you're like, ooh, I've actually got some gas in the tank. Or you don't want to be announced,

Shayna Goldman (14:30)

especially retirement, and then you have guests and then you don't.

Haley Salvia (14:34)

Exactly. So I. You know what? It's probably smart at his age to just be like, I'm gonna actually sit and think on this, and if it's July and I'm itching to get back on the ice, maybe I'll give it a whirl. But, yeah, it would just. It would be cool to get to see the celebration. But because. Just because of the games that are on the schedule, like, you've got two games against Penguins, which has obviously been such a huge rivalry over the course of Oetkin's long career, but I think those games will still be celebratory and. And have a little extra gas in them just because people know this could be it. And I think it's interesting, in that game against the. The Leafs, we did see, like, the players who could take over for ov, but also the reasons why he might want to come back. You've got Tom Wilson and Ryan Leonard, Cole Hudson. It's an empty net goal, but still Logan Thompson gets the shutout. Like, there's players who can steer the ship once he's gone, but there's also players that can keep the caps, like, relevant for him to maybe be like, you know what? I want to still be a part of this. So we'll see.

Shayna Goldman (15:41)

Yeah. And you've had that crossover already that, like, it's. If you say, okay, the guard's been changed, it's like, okay, well, Hugo, Produce, go Cook. This is your team now. You know, things like that. But it's also, if you have so much up and coming talent and the Capitals have done a really good job replenishing that over the last couple years, that you can kind of offset his drawbacks at this point in his career, too. So it can go both ways.

Haley Salvia (16:02)

Super interesting. We'll keep an eye on that over the course of the summer. What does Alex Ovechkin do really quickly before we get to Eric? And this transitions us? Well, actually, because we want to look at the San Jose Sharks specifically, as well as, you know, the kind of California fight for the playoffs in the Pacific and the wild card. But the Oilers and Sharks had a very interesting matchup heading into Wednesday night. San Jose looking to make up some ground in the wild card race against the LA Kings. Edmonton, they want to keep hold of the top spot in the Pacific. They want to get ahead, get some more points ahead of the Vegas Golden Knights. You've got Connor McDavid versus Macklin Celebrini. Like, there's a ton of juice and intrigue heading into this. Turns out it's just the Connor McDavid Show. And, like, that's okay when you're sitting on your couch watching this hat trick in the first 35 minutes of 5.9 factors into every goal in a 5, 2 victory. Just an unbelievable showing by Connor McDavid last night. Shayna.

Shayna Goldman (16:58)

Yeah, he was amazing. And it's, you know, you get that, that first period where celebrity and McDavid are trading goals, and you're like, okay, okay, maybe we have something here. Some of their matchups this year have been really exciting and celebrating. He's been next level. Like, when the Sharks are in it, you know, you see it. He has four primary points on the night or something, just like McDavid did. But instead, McDavid takes over, which the Oilers need him to do. I feel like he's just revving up for the playoffs because he's been great this season. He's great every season. But I don't look at it like this is the most dominant version of Connor McDavid we've ever seen. But, you know, he has that switch to flip. And I think the big question you look at the Oilers is, does the entire team, every year the Oilers start poorly? And then it doesn't matter. You're like, just see what happens in April and March, and that turnaround starts happening a little bit sooner, where you see the team gearing up for the playoffs. I don't exactly feel the same way this year. Sure, there's been some improvements, but not enough in my book to be like, this is the threat of the West. You're like, okay, I could see you win the Pacific, but who among us wants to play if we're in the Pacific at this point? But it feels like him hitting that gear like, okay, it's the right time for this to happen, to see him just take over games. So that's encouraging for the Oilers.

Haley Salvia (18:08)

I feel like the Ducks weren't getting, like, any respect while they were leading the Pacific because everyone was just like, well, right. It's because the Oilers stink right now.

Shayna Goldman (18:18)

Yeah. And the Golden Knights, you're like, okay, you're here. Great. It's more like we're patting the Ducks on the back half the year of, like, congrats, you're in the playoffs, big turnaround. The offense is great. But then everyone's like, but. And it felt like we were wrongly saying, but until they had that, like, losing streak between, what, December and January, because there's still comes back from injury, the team forgets how to play defense. You watch every goal against. You're like, well, he didn't play it well, but, oh, my God, what's happening in front of him.

Haley Salvia (18:44)

In front of him. Yeah.

Shayna Goldman (18:45)

And now it's like, sorry, guys, you're not going to get that respect. You're fun. We're excited you're here, but that's about it.

Haley Salvia (18:53)

I also feel like we maybe just take Connor McDavid for granted to transition back to the Oilers. Here. I was just looking like, he has. This is his most productive season since 2022, 23. I know that's not that long ago, but, like, when we're looking at a player who has 123 points, 153 points, 132, 100, then 133. This is just another huge season for a guy who's been putting up massive points year after year after year. And you almost have to gut check yourself every once in a while to say, oh, my God. Yeah, he's doing a lot.

Shayna Goldman (19:36)

Yeah. Like, between the goal against Utah the other night, or I think it was the first goal he scores against the Sharks last night, you watch it and you're just like, oh, my God, there he is again. Then you watch the second goal, and then the third one comes up.

Haley Salvia (19:48)

Yeah, you're.

Shayna Goldman (19:49)

It's like you have to remind yourself, like, it's okay to still be like, wow, this is amazing. Yes, I expect this from him. Yes, I expect him to bring it. And we've seen him do incredible things, and we've seen him do it all the way through the Stanley Cup Final, do incredible things. And sure, game 78 doesn't matter as much, but you can still look at it and just be like, oh, my God, this is, you know, the best player in the NHL, bar none. And he continues to prove that maybe he should be in a higher level league. I don't know.

Haley Salvia (20:18)

Where else can he play? What can we do? I don't know. So he's got four goals and seven points in his last two games. He's flipping the switch in April. He's gearing up for the postseason, which should make us excited about the Oilers. However, we are once again talking about the goaltending of this team. Not only has it just been like generically bad this season, but we did watch Connor Ingram get hurt in the game last night. He leaves Tristan Jari comes in. Ingram at one point in the third period at a TV timeout, like, he came out, did a little skate, did a little stretch and was like, nope, I'm heading right back to sit down. Not great, considering his numbers are better than Tristan Jari's. So that's something to keep an eye on. Is Connor Ingram status? Who to who takes over? Who's the number one and who's actually going to be making saves when it matters most for the Edmonton Oilers once again in 2026?

Shayna Goldman (21:24)

Maybe McDavid can. Maybe that's his his next task. Because it feels like someone's working against him at this point. Like, how can I make your life difficult and how are you going to push past that? Because this situation, like, yes, since Ball Coffee's returned, the Oilers are playing a lot better defensively. We're seeing that Murphy Nurse pair look a lot better, and they haven't had the easiest of competition. So, you know, while you have those encouraging signs, you still need someone that's going to come up with a volume of saves and timely saves. And neither one fit Tristan Jari at this point. And it felt like the Oilers should have known this going into the trade. As much as the previous situation was less than ideal and potentially, you know, costly the last two postseasons, it just feels like they somehow made it so much worse. And it. It's not like they're just going to get a clean slate next year. And that's where I think the bigger problem is. They committed to multiple years of Tristan Jari. He does not have a ton of playoff pedigree, and sometimes that gets overhyped. But when it's year after year, he's either not healthy enough to play or not good enough. When he's in net, you look at it and go, how is this a Stanley cup caliber goaltender? So if Ingram's out for any extended period of time, they're in trouble.

Haley Salvia (22:36)

I will never forget how bad Tristan Jari was in the first round against the Islanders for the Penguins. Like, he just, he torched their last, like, good shot. Yep.

Shayna Goldman (22:48)

He looks unconscious himself from it, too. And I feel like just gets so, so often you see goaltenders, like, make mistakes and then they just like overplay every situation because of that. And I feel like that's what can happen with him. And you're like, just take a breather. Just take a breather here because it's not going to get any easier. And it's, you know, say the Oilers don't win the Pacific, they could get, say, Anaheim, Round one. Anaheim. Do they have their own defensive issues? Yeah, but that is a team with a lot of firepower. That's going to be a problem if, you know, assuming it gets through that defense. And I'm going to assume some shots are going to. You're going to need the timely saves. And that just is really concerning.

Haley Salvia (23:28)

Yeah. All right, well, on that note, sorry, Oilers fans, Eric Stevens is going to join us after this quick break. The Ducks, the Kings, the Sharks, they're all in and around it in this playoff race. And I'm super excited to talk to Eric because he does a great job covering all three of those teams. Also, a pred story. Like, I used to think you were the busiest person here, Shane. It might be Eric.

Shayna Goldman (23:52)

It might be like the busiest. And just all Western Conference, all things Western Conference. He's like, I've got this.

Haley Salvia (23:58)

He's busy. He's an expert. He's joining us next on the Athletic Hockey Show.

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Haley Salvia (27:38)

all right, we are back on the Athletic Hockey Show. Eric Stevens he covers the Ducks, the Kings, the Sharks, little sprinkle of the Nashville Predators this week. Just really anyone who is in the wild card race in the Western Conference. Eric Stevens has got you covered. He joins us now. Eric, what's up? How are you doing?

Eric Stevens (27:58)

I'm good. How you doing, Haley?

Haley Salvia (28:00)

Good.

Eric Stevens (28:00)

How's everything?

Shayna Goldman (28:02)

Listen, we're having fun watching this from the outside, so I can't imagine, like, how busy and exciting it is from your perspective.

Eric Stevens (28:11)

It really is a kind of race that I don't. In many. My many years covering the NHL, that I really haven't come across, you know, during my time. Just in the sense of how average a lot of the teams are, but also the fact that it's. It's literally coming down to, you know, each day someone, you know, winning, losing, grabbing a spot, losing the spot, even sometimes within the same. Same night. It really is something. And, you know, it really looks like it's just going to go down to the very end here as to who wins the Pacific Division and also who claims that second wild card in the West.

Haley Salvia (28:57)

Yeah, we. Shane and I just wrapped up talking about Connor McDavid essentially beating the Sharks 5 to 2 last night. They don't make up any ground in the wild card race. They're still three points back. But the way that the race is going to your point, Eric, like, they're five and two in their last seven. They've got big games coming up against other teams that are in the wild card fight. Like, it. That's a big loss for them, but it doesn't feel like they're out of the mix yet.

Eric Stevens (29:29)

You know, that. That's been kind of the whole race here, Haley, is. Is that, you know, even though a team may lose and, you know, each of these. Each of these clubs have lost games here and there. No, they're not out of it because no one has really put together a sustained stretch in order to, say, grab that second wild card and just put a. Put a lockdown on it. You know, we talked about Nashville a little bit ago. I mean, they're miraculously in it. They just lost three, three or four in a row now. They've gotten back on the right side of it, but you would have thought that that would have put them out, but they're still hanging around right there. You know, we can go even deeper into it with, you know, teams like Winnipeg and St. Louis that are still hanging around here when it seemed like they were all dead, you know, right at the trade deadline or whatsoever. So that. That's what makes this wild Car race and even the Pacific Division, which is still up for grabs, amazingly. That's what makes it so interesting is, is because like you said, a. You would think that a loss like last night that the Sharks took, you know, would really put them behind the eight ball, but they, they could go into Anaheim, win that game, and they'll, they'll still be right there as we go into the, you know, the, the final weekend, the final, you know, stretch of days here.

Shayna Goldman (30:54)

You know what? Like the, the, like you said, it's miraculous that the Predators are still in it, I think too. Like, it feels like the feeling around each team in this mix is so different, right? Like the Sharks, it's like sick. They're here. Okay, they lost a couple games. We'll see what happens next. This is a good experience. The Kings, it's like, well, you're a disappointment. Like, how much whiplash are you getting covering teams that is not just who knows what they're doing, but the entire vibes and energy around their playoff races are totally different.

Eric Stevens (31:20)

No, you're, you're right, Shayna. It, you know, and it's. And it's really about expectations and the rosters that each have and, and where each club is kind of in their, you know, their respective evolutions here. You know, San Jose, this is, this is a, this is a feel good season, really. They weren't supposed to be anywhere near here, you know, and we've seen what Macklin Celebrini is basically dragged this club, you know, into playoff contention when, you know, they're really supposed to be about at least one year away, if not 2la went into the year. You know, obviously they, they had the, you know, they've had the first round disappointments. They kept running into the Oilers and losing here, you know, and they, they've made, they've made a coaching change. DJ Smith's now behind the bench, but, you know, their expectations were to not just get in, but, you know, finally conquer that, you know, that first round hex that they've been dealing with. They've had such a. Just a mixed bag year and underwhelming in a lot of respects, but yet they're still there and they still can kind of salvage their season, you know, so to speak. So it really is something. Nashville, they thought they were done. They were selling at the deadline. But you know, you've got Those guys like O'Reilly and Stamcoast, march or so, those veterans that have played big game, big games in the past, and it was, it was like they Were. They were defiant. You know, we're. No, we're not going to enter a rebuild. No, we're, you know, we've still got something to play for. So. Yeah, it really is. The narratives are different with each of those clubs because of the rosters that they have, where they are, you know, in. In their respective paths. And. And that's. That's another interesting layer to all this.

Haley Salvia (33:13)

I remember feeling not bad, but you just get that like, oof, like when Kevin Fiala goes down and you know that this is a team like they're trying to make the playoffs, like you said, Eric, they eventually make their coaching change and it's like this is a team that went out and made their big acquisition before the Olympics, and then one of your big players, it's a reason why you will be able to compete. That's why you want to go and be a buyer at the deadline gets hurt. And yet they're still in and around it like it's. It really has been wild to watch the Kings, especially knowing that. Where is this here they have the second fewest regulation wins in the NHL this season, and they have this big injury to Kevin Fiala. They have a coaching change, which I think DJ Smith has brought in, like, a nice identity for this group. I think he's been a boost. I don't mean to say that as a bad thing, but only the Vancouver Canucks have lost fewer or one fewer games in regulation. And we know where Vancouver is. They've been eliminated for a while now, and yet the Kings are still in the playoff hunt. Like, it's. It's crazy. They're the one. I think, you know, I've thrown all my eggs in the Sharks basket because celebrity. And I'm like, they're way more fun. Like, Sharks are great. And to Shayna's point, it's the vibe change. But then there's the Kings, where I'm like, this is just such a conundrum for me. Like, how are you doing this?

Eric Stevens (34:40)

No, Yeah, I think I literally wrote a story like that maybe about a week or two ago, because you're right, it's been kind of a star crossed year. You know, in some ways. You know, remember, this is Anjay Kopitar's final season, and this entire. Not just the team, I mean, this entire organization wants to send him out on, I guess, a more proper note. I mean, you don't want Andre Kopitar, you know, not playing in. In an important games or any important games here. You know, as he rides into the Sunset here. So that's been kind of a driving force. You know, certainly you alluded to dj. I think what he, what he's done, he certainly brought a different energy to the bench and he's got, he's got them playing more aggressive hockey now. You know, we're not going to confuse the Kings with being the most exciting club in the league. I mean, they're, they're still, you know, on, on that side of, you know, kind of being more low event, but they're being, they're more aggressive, they're using their forecheck much more. You know, they've been a little bit more offensive minded. You know, I don't know if they're necessarily playing better hockey under dj, but it's certainly a heck of a lot more entertaining or whatsoever. And, and then, and then right now they're actually getting some saves from Anton Forsberg, who I think, you know, should and will have the net here, you know, over these last few games here as they try to squeak in. So yeah, it, it's, they, they've hung around all year, you know, and they've been collecting a lot of these loser points and I mean they, they, they hold the record for most overtime games. You know, one more and they'll have 20 losses in, in shootout or, or, or overtime. So yeah, it's, it's confounding in, in a lot of ways. But you know, they don't, they don't say they don't care how you get the points. It's just a matter of getting enough to get in.

Shayna Goldman (36:42)

So speaking of getting a bunch of points, Macklin Salvarini is doing that this year. How, how important has he been to the team success? Like do you think, do you think he has to make the playoffs to, to get hard trophy votes? Do you think he's already locked up a top five spot on a ballot?

Eric Stevens (37:00)

Oh, I think he's, he's got to be top five without question. I, I, there's, there's no doubt he deserves a lot of votes. I, I would even suggest, at least before last night, I would have even suggested that, you know, even if they just missed out on the playoffs, that he'd be considered for, for the hard trophy. I mean, let's, let's be real here. And with no disrespect to Nikita Kucherov, who I think maybe have, has the best case of all, but Nikita Kucherov, obviously Connor McDavid, Nathan McKinnon whatsoever, but I mean, the Sharks do not have nearly, you know, what around celebrating what those players have at, you know, at their disposal with regard to, you know, high level, elite level teammates. You know, I mean, Macklin, I don't want to say it's not a one man show. Okay? You know, let's be real. It's not. And they have some nice players, but, you know, they don't. The Sharks don't have a Kale Makar and a Martin. Nature's, you know, they don't have a Zach Hyman or an Evan Bouchard on their back end. They just don't. And, and so this is what Macklin's been operating with. And, and we, and it hasn't stopped him from blowing up this year. It's just remarkable what he's done. Unfortunately, like I said, you have a game like, you know, yesterday where he scores their first goal, he gives them the lead, and it's Almost like Connor McDavid took a look at that and took a look at, you know, what, what was being not. What was not being said about him in social media in terms of being the best player. And he kind of reminded everyone on the planet that, you know, he is the best player. So it's fascinating and it's just fascinating the fact that in his second year, Macklin is legitimately part of the Hart Trophy conversation. And you would hope and you would think that he's going to be part of that conversation for years on end as he, just as he gets older, as he gets stronger, as the Sharks get better around him and build a championship caliber club around him that th. Those should figure to only strengthen his case in future seasons.

Haley Salvia (39:28)

Yeah, he's part of the Heart Trophy conversation. And the San Jose Sharks are still part of the wild card playoff conversation. A lot of that has to do with Macklin celebrating. I'm with you on the Hart Trophy love here, Eric. Let's transition quickly to the Anaheim Ducks here though, because they're out of the three, they've been highest in the standings. Last week they were first in the Pacific. Shane and I had talked a bit in the first segment about how that's a team that didn't really get much like love or respect for being first in the Pacific just because the thought was like, well, it's because the Oilers and the Golden Knights haven't been playing very well. But that will change. And we've seen that the Ducks have lost four straight games now, I believe, in their third in the Pacific Division. Eric, are we concerned, like we're talking about a sharks team that's 5 and 2, the Kings don't win a lot in regulation, but they're getting points. The Ducks are kind of doing the opposite. They're sliding down while a lot of other teams are pushing. Is there a level of concern there for them?

Eric Stevens (40:28)

I think there is, and I. I think that they're kind of feeling it right now because all. All that you've gained over the last several months, really all that you've gained ever since hiring Joe Quinville, you know, as. As your head coach to this team that is still on the rise, I believe. But what it is is that, you know, you're seeing a club kind of feeling the pressure, and, you know, you look back at their last game against Nashville, and they've kind of fallen into this pattern where, you know, they start off real well, create a lot of chances. You know, we know how explosive they can be in the kind of talent that they have offensively. But when they don't score, when they don't finish those chances, it's almost as if, you know, they don't have that backup game right now. They, you know, to be patient, to. To let. To let it play out. It's almost like they're. They're trying to force it, still force the issue when they don't score. And then, you know, and then once the other team gets a goal or two, you know, on them, it's as if, you know, rather. Rather than kind of staying with the process, staying with what they've done over the course of the year with all their many comebacks and games whatsoever, you know, it's almost like they're, you know, rushing. You know, I don't want to say panic. I hate to use the word panic, but there. There seemed to be an element of that. So you got to remember that even though there's a number of good veterans on this club surrounding that young core that's going to lead this team, that young core, whether, you know, we talk about Leo Carlson and, you know, et cetera, Cutter Gaultier, you know, back at Seneca, obviously, they've never been in this. They've never been in something like this. They've never been in an atmosphere. They've never played games like this in the NHL where there is so much at stake. So this is a critical time right now, because if they don't stop the bleeding here, you know, they haven't wrapped up a playoff spot yet. You know, who's to say that, you know, they don't. They aren't the ones that are looking on the outside, looking in. If they can't stop this and turn it around real quickly here.

Shayna Goldman (42:40)

Okay, so rapid fire, gut check who's making that last playoff spot. Like, like you just had to go, okay, this is the team. Who is

Eric Stevens (42:49)

la. I don't know. We all want that. But. And honestly, there, there's that. Don't want it. They really don't. You know, they would like to see them. The Kings kind of chart a different course here. They wouldn't mind if they miss it. But I. There's just enough. There's enough motivation. There's enough veterans on that club, you know, and, and again, Andre Kopitar, I, you know, I think they're going to find. Find their way in. And we talked about it earlier, they've got the easiest schedule remaining. They've got Vancouver twice, Calgary. Yes, there's. They've got a big game against. A tough game against Edmonton on Saturday. But I, I think they're going to find their way in.

Haley Salvia (43:34)

I shouldn't boo the Kopitar things. Cool. I'm just joking. I'm just joking, everyone. It's all right.

Eric Stevens (43:40)

We all love Andre Copa to our list.

Haley Salvia (43:42)

Yeah.

Eric Stevens (43:43)

I mean, come on. But we, we. We know what the Kings have done over the. Over the last several months here.

Haley Salvia (43:49)

I'm just going to go ahead and guess that that Kings Canucks game is going to go to overtime or something. Tied one one. Nobody can win in regulation ever with those two teams. Eric, thank you so much for doing this. We really appreciate it. The Western Conference playoff race, what's going on? The Pacific is one of the most interesting things to track in the NHL right now. So we could have you on next week and have a completely different conversation. So we appreciate this.

Eric Stevens (44:12)

I appreciate it. And yes, this is going to be decided in game 82 in a show.

Haley Salvia (44:18)

Yeah. Thanks, Eric.

Eric Stevens (44:22)

Thank you.

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Shayna Goldman (44:58)

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Shayna Goldman (46:02)

all

Haley Salvia (46:03)

right, my big takeaway, unfortunately, I'm gonna sound like the biggest hater is I feel like the NHL needs to go to a 3, 2, 1 point system.

Shayna Goldman (46:12)

They do. I'm. I'm sorry. A regulation win should count a lot more than a loser point. So it's like, no, we're not eliminating the loser point. No one's asking to. But there should be some separation. Like please pdubs has it right.

Haley Salvia (46:28)

19 regulation wins and you're maybe in the postseason versus the Sharks, who have what, 30, 25, 25 regulation when still this more than 19? That's my fast math. We'll see how that race plays out, but there's another race going on. Shayna, we got to ask you about this before we let you go and we bring Sean back next week. It's the Norris Trophy race. It is closer than ever. You have a great story on the Athletic about this. I recommend everyone go read it if you want some more depth because we only have a few minutes to wrap up here, but this looks like a pretty deep race this season. Like, just how many legit candidates are we talking about right now?

Shayna Goldman (47:11)

There's so many. Like, Dom wrote a really good story about this a couple weeks ago how like, the threshold is getting higher and higher and you look at a guy like Miro Heiskin and like, what he's doing should be good enough for the Norris Trophy because he's been absolutely outstanding. What Erik Carlson has done, especially since the Olympics, should be Norris caliber. But the bar is getting higher. Like it just is. Guys like cider and Makar And Bouchard and Warrensky and Hudson and Darling and Quinn Hughes and Jake Sanderson. Like, they, I think they've added some separation in this and just pushed the threshold higher than we've seen before. So there's legitimately 10, 15 guys you could make a case for right now. And when it is that close and that deep, it's going to come down to all of the nitty gritty details. So it's going to be interesting to see who values what and who thinks what. You know, what other details are going to be more important here because you are literally going to have to split hairs.

Haley Salvia (48:02)

Yeah. I just feel like. And you make this point in the story to Shayna. Like, it's so hard to sit and compare what a kale McCart does dynamic offensive defender to what a, like more all around D does or a more defensive defender does. Like, we're really comparing two different prototypes of player. And like, I'm just such a. There should be a best offensive D and a best defensive D award because the interpretation of the best defender has changed a lot. And it's very much often just like, well, Kale McCarr scored this many points and he's like a good defender too, don't get me wrong. But we're often. I feel like the D who add more on the other side of the puck often kind of get lost in the shuffle there.

Shayna Goldman (48:55)

Yeah. Like, I get the argument of having more awards for defensemen because for whatever reason, people don't want to vote defenseman for the heart. And then they're kind of like limited to this one. And we see it all the time where it's like, well, they're the most valuable, but they're player, but they don't necessarily hit the criteria. I like that it's one award. I just think we have to get better at assessing defense and thinking about it because like this year it does feel like truly like there's a defenseman for everyone. If you think they need to be an offensive ace but solid defensively, they're guys for that. Right. Like, you could go for Bouchard if that's your vibe. If you think they need to be a defensive ace who sprinkles in some offense, Mo Cider is your guy you want all around, you're getting it in Warinski and Makar and Darlene. So it's like there's no wrong answer here, but it's just going to be all of us thinking what. What matters in this. And it's. It's different from Say, like the Selkie trophy in my book, where that's the best defensive forward. So you're saying, okay, they have to go against top competition. You're going to be stricter on. They should be PK number one.

Haley Salvia (49:55)

Yeah.

Shayna Goldman (49:56)

Here it's all around. It's like, well, they should go up against top competition, but if they're not all year long, like, say, how the Red Wings have lightened Cider's load as of late, you know, then you can go, okay, that's fine. Oh, you're on the pk, but you're not the number one guy first over the boards. That's okay, too, as long as you have a little bit of it. But then you're. You're gonna have to prioritize what little bits you care about to find the right option.

Haley Salvia (50:18)

Cider having, like, pretty equal offensive and defensive net rating and then. Or offensive and defensive ratings and then having one of the top net ratings. Like, he looks like the complete package for this award.

Shayna Goldman (50:33)

Sure. The scoring, not as prolific as some of the other guys. He's not as much of a puck mover as guys like, you know, Brensky and Hudson, but he is not kind of.

Haley Salvia (50:41)

The issue with the award, though, is like, if you look, oh, well, he only had 55 points this season. Exactly, Matt. But it's like, who care? Who cares?

Shayna Goldman (50:48)

Yeah. We're not saying Essel and Dell should win the Norris when he barely scores. And, you know, you're below 30 points because there are guys who are below 30 points in elite defensively. Like, Cider, I think has enough scoring to be in the conversation because scoring is a part of it. But it's the offensive impact below the scoring that I think impresses the most. Like, he plays the most traditional style of defense because he's physical. The way he breaks up plays, you know, he's a workhorse defenseman. So if that's your vibe, you have it. And he checks technically, all of the boxes in between. But it really is impressive, like, how split it is, because he. He's someone that truly is MVP caliber. When you look at what he's done for the Red Wings and when you look at how terrible this team is defensively without him on the ice. But it's. It's Norris caliber, too. Like, he actually, I feel like, hits all the marks here.

Haley Salvia (51:37)

Who would have your vote right now?

Shayna Goldman (51:39)

I don't know. So normally I do the story, and I'm like, I.

Haley Salvia (51:43)

And then you decide at the end. Yeah.

Shayna Goldman (51:45)

And I'm like, okay, this matters to me or. Oh, you know what? Like, let me go through this and with this, you know, like, I think Lane Hudson's having an amazing season. He doesn't kill enough penalties for me. He doesn't get the top matchups that I could see him being top five, but not number one. Now I probably am leaning Warren Ski. I think he was number two for me last year. I think he's my best all around, and I have the fewest nitpicks with him.

Haley Salvia (52:11)

Okay.

Shayna Goldman (52:12)

But, like, cider is definitely top three for me too, so probably Makar as well. And I keep kind of, like, waffling back and forth. And then I was really digging through the video here to, like, you want to make sure that's the guy that's doing all the little defensive things, too, to shift back to offense. And I feel like those guys do a ton that I. I think Warrensky's my guy right now.

Haley Salvia (52:33)

Okay. I love that. It's interesting. I like that it's a debate just because there was so many years where it was just like, well, it's Kale or, oh, it's got to be between Kale and Quinn. And now we just have, like, more people to talk about legitimately having a case to win this award. It's good stuff. I recommend everyone take a look at that story from Shayna if you want to go more in depth on that topic. Big night in the NHL Oilers, one of four teams who could clinch a postseason birth, along with the Penguins, Bruins and the Utah Mammoth. I wish Sean. This is the one moment I wish Sean was here so we could ask him him. Like, why did you think that the Penguins weren't. We're going to be, like, the second worst team in the league this season.

Shayna Goldman (53:13)

I think we all thought they'd be pretty low.

Haley Salvia (53:15)

It's true. Hey, you were. Maybe you were part. Hey, you were part of season previews, too. I'm just joking. It didn't look great, but the Penguins have been a great story. Same with the Boston Bruins. We had Fluta on last week if you want to check that interview out. He was great in explaining how the Bruins have been able to pull off this retool Utah Mammoth as well. As I said, the ABs can clinch the President's Trophy with a win over the Flames as well. That's it from us. Thank you, Shayna. Thank you, Eric Stevens. Thanks, everyone for listening to this episode of the Athletic Hockey show, the Prospect Series. Have a new show on Friday. Sean and I will be back next Thursday with a preview of the Eastern Conference playoffs. 14 games in the NHL tonight, including Peter Deborah's debut behind the Islanders bench. That's fun, right? Shout out.

Shayna Goldman (53:59)

I'm listen. I'm excited. Changes? Why not? Let's see.

Haley Salvia (54:04)

Perfect. Let's see how it goes. See everyone next week.

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Haley Salvia (54:42)

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Haley Salvia (55:43)

Especially.

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