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- [00:00]
Host Haley Salvian
AI is transforming customer service.
- [00:02]
Sean Gentile
It's real and it works.
- [00:04]
Host Haley Salvian
And with Fin, we've built the number.
- [00:06]
Sean Gentile
One AI agent for customer service. We're seeing lots of cases where it's solving up to 90% of real queries for real businesses. This includes the real world, complex stuff like issuing a refund or canceling an order.
- [00:17]
Host Haley Salvian
And we also see it when Fin goes up against competitors.
- [00:20]
Sean Gentile
It's top of all the performance benchmarks, top of the G2 leaderboard. And if you're not happy, we'll refund you up to a million dollars, which I think says it all. Check it out for yourself at Fin.
- [00:29]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
AI A Mochi moment from Sadie who writes I'm not crying, you're crying. This is what I said during my first appointment with my physician at Mochi because I didn't have to convince him I needed a GLP one. He understood and I felt supported, not judged. I came for the weight loss and.
- [00:48]
Shayna Goldman
Stayed for the empathy. Thanks Sadie.
- [00:50]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
I'm Mayra Amit, founder of Mochi Health. To find your mochi moment, visit joinmochi.com Sadie is a Mochi member company, compensated for her story.
- [01:01]
Sean Gentile
Change isn't coming.
- [01:02]
Julian Mackenzie
It's already here.
- [01:04]
Sean Gentile
Commerce is going digital and tax complexity is multiplying. Tax rules evolve, rates shift, data floods in.
- [01:13]
Host Haley Salvian
Vertex connects it all.
- [01:16]
Sean Gentile
A global tax compliance platform powered by tax ready data and intelligent systems, Smarter tech, continuous tax compliance built in confidence. Learn more@vertexinc.com.
- [01:43]
Julian Mackenzie
This is the Athletic Hockey Show.
- [01:57]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
What's up everyone? Welcome to the Athletic Hockey Show. It's Haley Salvian, Sean Gentile and Max Boltman here with you and it's officially the start of preview season here on the podcast. We are switching things up a bit this season and going in depth on every team in the league with our amazing beat writers around the athletic NHL and we're kicking things off today with the Atlantic division. We're going to be joined throughout the show by Arp and Basu, Julian Mackenzie Flute, Ocean Zawa, Jonas Siegel, Matt Fairburn and Shayna Goldman. But before all that, let's bring in the guys for admittedly our second time recording this segment given the news out of Florida last week we tried our best to get everything ready and pre recorded devastating news about Alexander Barkov. We'll get to that in a few seconds here but nice to see you guys again. Max, Sean, what's up?
- [02:52]
Sean Gentile
Well, the thing people need to know is that everything I said in the first take was really smart. So whatever happens this time, just that that you missed the good Stuff. I'm sorry.
- [03:00]
Max Boltman
See I'm, I'm better than ever. I was garbage last week. I said a bunch of stuff I didn't believe, told a bunch of lies. But now, now I'm being honest. This is actually how I feel. So I'm. We're coming at it from different, from different directions.
- [03:14]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
I think the news, of course. Alexander Barkov suffered injuries to his ACL and MCL at practice on Thursday. He underwent surgery on Friday and is expected to be out for seven to nine months. So he could miss the entire regular season, maybe be back for the playoffs, but also surely misses the 2026 Milan Olympics. Just devastating news not just for the Panthers, but for Barov himself. Let's start here with you Sean. How does this impact your view of the Panthers? Because last time we did this podcast you were all in on a three peat.
- [03:50]
Host Haley Salvian
Yeah.
- [03:50]
Max Boltman
Because they had a healthy Alexander Barkov, like that's how important he is for, for that team is that that's the difference between believing in them as a three peat champ and not. And it's kind of a two pronged thing here. Right. They're going to miss him for by all accounts the entirety of, of the regular season, which is going to make it harder for them to make the playoffs in the first place. And even best case scenario, blue sky scenario for them is that he comes back in April, say like it at some point in the first round.
- [04:18]
Sean Gentile
Are you.
- [04:19]
Max Boltman
I'm skeptical that you know, five or seven or nine month, you know, post knee injury Sasha Barkov is going to be enough to get it done. Also like they need him fully operational. They need him at 100% and I think if nothing else, you know, it seems like what's gone on over the last few days kind of takes that off the board for them.
- [04:38]
Sean Gentile
Yeah, it's not an injury you come back from at full speed necessarily either like you know, even if he's back for the playoffs.
- [04:43]
Jonas Siegel
Right.
- [04:44]
Sean Gentile
I don't know that I want my, my demos on my new ACL to be coming in that level, that intensity of hockey. So it's, it's a lot to ask and I think it completely alters frankly the outlook of the season for not just the Florida Panthers, but for the entire Atlantic Division and frankly the NHL.
- [04:58]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
Well, let's look at the Atlantic very quickly here before we bring in Shayna to dive in deeper on the Panthers and Atlantic Division team AKA the Florida Panthers have won the Stanley cup and back to back seasons four times in the last six years. If we go back to Tampa's Repeat wins in 2020 and 2021. So I guess the question is, can the Stanley cup stay in the Atlantic this season? Whether it's the Panthers or maybe another team in the state or just another team in the division. Max, do you want to start there?
- [05:26]
Sean Gentile
Yeah, I mean, it certainly can, right? Like, I think, you know, whether the Panthers find it. I mean, look, it's a deep team, right? I say that it's, it's going to be too much to ask, and I do believe that. But it's not like this is a team without talent. They just signed the biggest center on the free agent market and Sam Bennett. Now, I think it's a different conversation with him at 1C than it was when you really loved him as your 2C. But it's not like they're without talent here. But I think that the favorite in the division probably becomes the Lightning, and I think they are a legit Stanley cup contender. I think a whole lot of us here on this podcast picked them to win the Stanley cup at the beginning of the playoffs last year, only to see them go out in the first round to the Panthers. So I'm not taking the Lightning to win the cup this year, but I certainly think it's very possible that they do.
- [06:06]
Host Haley Salvian
Yeah.
- [06:07]
Max Boltman
The other team that we talk about when we talk about cup true cup contenders from the division is the Maple Leafs for the most part. And what happened to them? They lose. They lose. Mitch Marner, you know, there's, there's depth issues at center for them. Like they've, they've subtracted so much from their group that, yeah, you, you're not feeling the same way about them as, as you have in past seasons either. So, yeah, a week ago we're all in on, you know, a champ potentially coming from the, from the division. And now, you know, as we're, as it stands, it's. Yeah, we feel differently about it. ACL tears have, have a funny way of, of changing how you feel about, about a team and also the greater context of the league. And I think we're getting a crash course in that.
- [06:52]
Sean Gentile
The thing I think is interesting about this division as a whole though, Haley, is like there have been seasons in the past where this division was just insanely stratified. Like I'm talking like 30 point gaps between fourth and fifth place. I don't have it right in front of me. What it was back in 20, 21, 22, but it was like it was the top four and I believe the fourth was like the Boston Bruins, who were like 100, and it was the bottom four. I think it was a 32 point gap and I think it was 32. Yeah. And so that's not the case anymore. Even the bottom of this division, which is probably the Bruins or the Sabres, like, we're not completely ruling it out that they could make a push here.
- [07:28]
Shayna Goldman
Right.
- [07:28]
Sean Gentile
I don't expect it, but I wouldn't. None of us could say we're shocked if the Bruins find a way to get back on track here.
- [07:34]
Host Haley Salvian
Right.
- [07:34]
Sean Gentile
And I think what you have now is a cluster of teams that are after, you know, Tampa maybe, maybe Florida, maybe Toronto. You're going to have a cluster of teams all right there in between, I don't know, 80 and 95 points, all fighting for those wild cards.
- [07:50]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
Yeah. A lot of the longtime rebuilders, to your point, max, are very much vying for playoff spots and could be competitive. So the bottom in the middle of the division gets a little bit more interesting even with some of the. The drama at the top. All right, let's dive into the Panthers now with Shayna Goldman. She joins us here on the show. Shayna, as we just discussed, off the top, huge. The Panthers this week. Sasha Barkov needed knee surgery and is likely out for the entire regular season. Just how devastating is this injury for the team? And of course, Barkov, we mentioned off the top misses the Olympics would have been obviously a huge opportunity for him to represent Finland. Just really, really tough news out of Florida.
- [08:31]
Shayna Goldman
Yeah, it's crushing for, for Baroff for sure. Like coming off such a great year and now, you know, you get to play four nation, so you got like a taste of that international action again, only to not be a part of it. It's awful for Finland, but for the Panthers, like, we know this lineup is still stacked. Like they. If any team has the depth to deal with an injury, it's Florida. But now we're not talking one injury, we're talking two. And it's. It's going to be a much tougher road for them. It's going to be a test. It's going to make the regular season interesting. Like, we're working on the previews and Sean made this point like, this is not just, all right, have tunnel vision to the playoffs, just get by and it's okay. Like, now you have to compete for the playoffs a little bit more. Now you have to learn what you can do with your lineup. In the case that he's not ready for the playoffs, it's going to teach them a lot and it helps that they have a lot of centers, like a lot of players who can play center that they can mix and match. And it's not just, okay, everyone jump up a spot and be out of your depths. Like really, really, really. Just try to get creative with this lineup to see how, how you can deal with it.
- [09:35]
Max Boltman
Shea, like, what's your inclination here to go as like a patch job for, for Barkov? Is it Bennett plays up and center Sam Reinhardt. Do we try to turn Anton Lundell, everyone loves to call him baby Barkov down there. Like do we actually try to, you know, make that happen even a little quicker than they anticipated? Do you move Sam Reinhardt back to center? Like there's, there's a lot of, you know, I, I think you kind of alluded to this. There's. There's a lot of potential options, each kind of with different, different pros and different cons. What would move number one be for you?
- [10:07]
Shayna Goldman
I would not move Sam Bennett. I think that you have to keep him and Reinhardt separated. Like, do not put the Sam's together. Okay, one Sam per line. Otherwise I think you stack, you stack your deck a little bit too much towards the top. And I think these are two like veterans because otherwise we're going to be looking at younger guys, right? If already could Chuck's out. So you, you lost that like veteran presence there and you need someone with a lot of skill. You wonder if it's going to be a Martian or Sam Scovich there. So if you just throw Bark off up to that top line now all of a sudden like the third lines a little bit more bare bones, assuming Martian jumps up, but if not, maybe looser A and then Sam Skavich can handle the third line and you think of it as Lindell and Reinhardt on that top line and maybe Sam Bennett verhe on the 2nd and you still have like those forward pairings that I think can balance things out a little bit more. But I would try Sam Reinhardt at center, honestly, why not? He has the experience. He's so good. I think if you keep him with someone like Carter Hagee, you're going to have someone handle a lot of the puck carrying for him. Maybe that gets his rush game going because we've seen it trail off a little bit and I think we know Reinhardt is really good with his all around game. But the big question there will be how much does it weigh on his defense? If it seems like it does, he shouldn't be there. Right then Lundell is probably the best answer. But if he can handle it and we saw him play really well last year while Barkov was out for, you know, a handful of games, he was still an all situation threat. Like if he can take it up to the next level now, do that at center without Barkov, that's going to be massive for them.
- [11:36]
Max Boltman
We've already kind of seen the ecosystem change around Sam Bennett.
- [11:39]
Shayna Goldman
Right.
- [11:39]
Max Boltman
Like everyone when he signs this extension, everyone's like great, we know exactly where he fits there. Florida uses them the exact, in the exact correct way. He's surrounded by the right line mates and blah blah, blah. That's already changed because Matthew Tkachuk is out of the lineup too. So yeah, I, I'm, I think I'm kind of with you moving Bennett up and shuffling it that much, you really run the risk of, you know, asking a completely different set of questions of Sam Bennett relative to, you know, the kind of system he's thrived in over the last couple years.
- [12:10]
Sean Gentile
Yeah, I think the thing that, that's tough too is like if it was just Barkov that was out then that's one thing. But they're already, they already know they're going to be without Matthew Tkachuk for the first two plus months of this season. Like my concern is like what is, I don't have a doubt that once could Chuck gets back in. Like he's going to fit in nicely. He's such an identity setter for them. I still think he's going to be very good when he's back for more than half the season. Can you even tread water for two and a half, three months without I would say your two most important players?
- [12:37]
Shayna Goldman
Yeah, like we've seen them do it before when it was Montour and Eckbad. What was that two seasons ago? Like you start the year without him, you get them both back in November and they were really good. And the structure of that team helped maximize defensemen who should not play that high in the lineup. Right. They made it work with guys like Kulakov and Oel. This is completely different. So you know, if you move someone like Reinhardt to center now your wearing, your depth is hurting even more because you don't have Tkachuk there. You had that staple before, now you don't. And it's going to change the complexion of this lineup completely. And now you know Tkachuk, that's a power play guy and a great even strength guy. You have Barkov, that's an all situation guy. Every moment of the game, every facet of the game he contributes to. I don't think he even gets enough credit still for all that he does because the scoring doesn't pop off like say, a McDavid. Right. But it's the little details of the game like that's a lot to make up for on a good day for either player. Now you're coming into the year without Bulls, but I think it's a veteran group that's going to help and I think it's going to allow them to try to get different things out of different guys. Right. And that's why like Lindell and Samiskovich are huge for them. They are younger players who their path to playing higher in the lineup has been blocked. But both have shown really good signs. Like Lundell played with the Tkachuk line, I think was between Verhaege and Tkachuk for a time a couple of years ago and he looked really, really good there. And you're like, okay, so he can play that more offensive role. And with Martian, we saw it again and we know he can handle tough minutes because at times last postseason the Lindell line was taking the tougher matchups against Matthews to try to free up the Reinhardt Barkworth line because they weren't scoring. So like there's building blocks there. With Sam Skavich, I think you look below the surface like is all three zones tracking and you go, okay, there's some really good puck moving qualities here. If he plays more, could they like figure something else out? In a way it's going to teach him something totally different about the team. Maybe it makes them stronger down the, you know, down the stretch if Barkov can return. But it's just such a killer that you don't know if Barkov's going to come back at all. And then we've seen so many players come back from these types of injuries and you might be healthy enough to play and regular season healthy enough and postseason we already know are two different things. But are you healthy enough to be effective? And now if you're bark off, are you healthy enough to be that elite all situation guy? Probably not.
- [14:42]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
It's going to be interesting to see how this all plays out. Shayna, let's go one more direction here and let's look at Sergey Boski because obviously your goalie is a very important position and player in general, but he might be even more important now given the injury to Barkov and given the injury to Matthew Kachuk. Some of the transitions that are going to need to happen up and down the Panthers Lineup, Bobrovsky might need to steal more games than he is used to in the regular season. Do you think he can consistently do that and kind of keep his run of strong play that we've seen last year and the year before going here?
- [15:21]
Shayna Goldman
I think if the defense can keep him insulated, we'll see quality play from him. But I would be a little bit more worried about him. Like, you know, he's an aging goalie. He doesn't have the same reliability behind him, too. It's not Spencer Knight, who was really good in that role last year before he was traded, or even, you know, Stolars. He was excellent as a backup, and he could play 20 something games. And it was, you know, no sweat. Now you have Tarasov. There's more question marks there. And I think we've seen, you know, Bobrovsky go from this guy who just aces at every regular season, sparkling numbers, to someone who's solid enough. But he gets the job done when it matters most. He elevates his game down the stretch. Can he do it? Especially now that he said two shorter, three shorter off seasons, really, because three straight trips to the Stanley Cup Final, like, does that wear and tear start to affect him? Especially because he's in his later 30s versus being 29 years old and doing this? Like, I think there might be a big difference there. So they're going to need him to be great. And now you lose this keycock up front, who's so good defensively, and two forwards who would possess the puck more so he doesn't have to do enough. It's an even bigger challenge for him. So I'm very interested to see how he responds to this.
- [16:26]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
All right, everyone listening, you're gonna notice today that we have three questions we're asking every guest, so Shayna gets to kick it off here. The first question, and this answer is probably different than it would have been if we would have chatted on Wednesday afternoon. Will the Florida Panthers finish higher or lower in the standings than last season, and do you think they'll make the playoffs? Shayna?
- [16:47]
Shayna Goldman
I still think they're going to make the playoffs. Um, I could see them slipping into that third seed still, but I feel like, you know, a wildcard does make a little bit more sense. It'll be interesting to see not just how the Panthers handle this, but I think the door opening for these younger teams, like, okay, that's yours. Go for it. Like, that might put pressure on them, too, in a different way that might make things a little bit more challenging and like everyone, galaxy brain, something that should be so simple, like, here's your opportunity. Run with it.
- [17:13]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
Yeah. The Panthers had 98 points last season, third of the division. Ottawa Senators, one point back in the regular season. Maybe an opportunity for a team like that, especially if the Panthers have a bit of a slower regular season until December. Shayna, who is their most important player? Because it would have been Barkov. Who's next?
- [17:31]
Shayna Goldman
Yeah, definitely would have been Barkov. I'm gonna go Sam Reinhardt, because that is like your do it all kind of forward. Can he score 40 goals again without Barkov setting him up? Not so sure. Can he crush it in all situations still? I would think so, but not to the same extent, especially on the power play. So I think he emerges as that. Obviously you're going to need guys like Forsling to be stellar defensively. You're going to need a lot of Bob and everybody else to step up. But I think Reinhardt is like the guy.
- [17:57]
Max Boltman
When we were working on player tiers, we had someone ask us hypothetically when we were trying to figure out where to play Sam Rinehart. Someone said like, do you. Do you like him as your. If he's your best player. And you know, the logic, the implication there was like, maybe not really. And that's the situation that the Florida Panthers find themselves in now. It's some. Some nasty. Some nasty irony for Panthers fans. Yeah.
- [18:22]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
Final question here for Shayna. Can you give us a title for your team's season? It can be like a book, an album you can create yourself. What's the title for the 20, 25, 26 Panthers?
- [18:34]
Shayna Goldman
You know, the Panthers were originally my easiest one out of these because I feel like these are actually really hard. And it was. We love Dogs by Remy Wolf because we all hear about playoff dogs and Martian and Bennett, but I feel like we have to change it gonna get really dramatic here. It's gonna be stripped by Cristian Galera because now we're seeing a stripped down version of this roster and we are gonna see how good they are and test their forward depth in a different way. And then who knows if they can get to the playoffs. Maybe we'll see them back at full strength.
- [19:00]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
I think it's a good one. That was very good. I liked the. Their dogs, but this is probably more accurate now, given the news. All right, we'll see how it all goes.
- [19:09]
Sean Gentile
Still dogs.
- [19:09]
Shayna Goldman
Yeah, still dogs. Still lots of dogs.
- [19:11]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
There's still some dogs. Yeah. But I think stripped is good. It's going to be a real test for the Florida Panthers this year. Thank you for doing this. Shayna Shane is going to return a little bit to preview the Tampa Bay Lightning. All right, let's move on to the Buffalo Sabers. Matthew Fairburn joins us now. Matthew, how's it going? Thanks for doing this.
- [19:28]
Host Haley Salvian
I'm doing well. Thanks for having me.
- [19:30]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
Yeah, of course. So I think the big question we wanted to start with, when it comes to the Buffalo Sabers, we know they traded JJ Paterka in his 27 goals. This offense. Who is going to step up and help replace that offense? Buffalo this season.
- [19:45]
Host Haley Salvian
They're kind of hoping that it will be replaced by committee. You know, they didn't bring in another big scoring forward to fill that role, but they do have Yuri Kulik entering year two, Zach Benson entering year three, and Jack Quinn coming off a down year. I think they hope that a combination of those three players taking a step forward should help replace that offense. There's also Josh Norris, who they had for three games after the trade deadline last year, but obviously has a track record as a goal scorer when he's healthy, swapping him for Dylan Cousins, they think will, will probably help the goals, but I, the message also from Lindy Ruff during training camp has been, you know, look, they were, I believe, third in the NHL and 5 on 5 scoring last year. He's like, goal scoring is not the problem. Like, if they can cut the goals against down, they don't have to worry about replacing all 27 of those goals. And I think it's worth pointing out that in swapping out JJ Paterka for Josh Doane and Michael Kesselring, on paper they are a better defensive team. Like, I think that trade was a win for their team defense. I think it was a win for the locker room culture, bringing in guys like Doane and Kesselring who were big pieces for, for Team USA at the World Championships, and everybody you talk to says those are big time, you know, culture guys. So that's sort of what they're banking on. But as Far as a 1 for 1 replacement on JJ Paterka's offense, it didn't come this off season. So they have no choice but to bank on, on some internal improvement.
- [21:26]
Max Boltman
Castle Ring is an interesting player. He'd grown into a pretty solid, legit top four guy along the right side for Utah over the last couple of years and that's certainly something that Buffalo needed. So I, I look at their, I look at their top, I look at their top two pairs defensively, you know, you are we penciling Bowen Byram in like permanently as the long term partner for Darlene and then then hoping that Power and, and Kesselring work as a second pair because I, I look at that and then make, that makes some degree of, of sense to me.
- [21:57]
Host Haley Salvian
Yeah, I'd say they're penciling in Byram and Darlene for now. Long term is a bigger question because Byram's under contract for two years and then he's a ufa. So I think Rasmus Darlene could play with, with one of us and probably have a positive expected goal share at 5 on 5. I mean the guy's just a complete beast and has played with just about everybody but he was good with Bowen Byram last year. So I think they, they like how that looks and that allows them to have power in Kesselring and maybe more importantly allows them to have Matthias Samuelson on the third pair playing fewer minutes and hopefully in a more sheltered role. So that's how they have it sketched out right now with Timmons playing with Samuelson. Lindy Ruff has mentioned, you know, situationally that could change where if you need more offense, you can put power and Darling together and push for, you know, some goals. But as it stands right now, that's probably been the steadiest thing about the Sabers in training camp, is that those three defensive pairs have been together and they're hoping, I think, that Kesselring can bring out another level in Owen Power. It seems like since they brought him to the NHL, they've been talking about finding a defensive partner for Owen Power and they just haven't been able to do it until now with Kesselring. And he had, to your point, some good results playing a top four role in Utah last year. It's a limited sample size though, so there's a leap of faith there. But early returns have been pretty positive. He's a big, mobile guy with a huge shot and you know, likes to, to play more of a nasty game probably than Power does. So I think it could be a good match.
- [23:39]
Sean Gentile
I'm not breaking any news here. When I say like the Sabres obviously have drafted a team that's good enough to be way better than where they are. Right. It's just that a lot of those pieces left, whether it's Reinhardt and certainly Jack Eichel, the piece that they got back, in my opinion, the biggest piece they got back for Jack Eichel is Alex Tucker. And I keep waiting to see a news pop up on my Twitter that Alex Tuck is locked in for forever in Buffalo, and it hasn't come through like, where do things stand with that? How important is that with. With everything that, you know, it took to acquire Alex Tuck and everything he's meant to them to keep him in this fold long term, it's hard to.
- [24:17]
Host Haley Salvian
Overstate how important that is for the Buffalo Sabers in so many different ways. I mean, you could start with the Eichel trade, right? He was the big piece of the Eichel trade, arguably at this point. So Noah Osland is a decent prospect and Peyton Krebs is a. Is a solid, dependable fourth liner for them right now. But Alex Tuck is the main attraction from that Jack Eichel trade. This is a guy that grew up two hours away. He grew up rooting for the Buffalo Sabers. He is a heart and soul player in the locker room, but also just a major community asset. The number of people that, you know, readers and fans that reach out and say, like, man, if they lose Alex Tuck, that's the last straw. It's. There's a lot of them, you know, this is a guy that means a lot to people in Buffalo, and he's coming off the best season of his career. I would say. He led all forwards and shot blocks. He led the league in shorthanded goals. He had another 37 goals, I believe it was. I mean, this is. He played 82 games for the first time in his career, so he'll be 30 when this next contract starts. Kevin Adams has said obviously that he's a priority for the Sabres. Alex Tuck has said he wants to remain a Saber. That's something he expressed early in the summer. And frankly, I can't quite figure out why there hasn't been more. You know, you can say he's a priority, but, you know, backing that up with actions. I don't think you can start the season without this guy under contract. I understand the landscape around the league. A lot of these guys that are year a year out have not signed yet. And so, you know, you might be waiting to see how the market looks or everything else, but there's no world in which you can afford to lose Alex Tuck in any way. Even if you trade him away at the deadline. It's just like, there's no world where that is a good thing for the Buffalo Sabers, because I wonder what that would look like, right? Who would want out after that? Because everybody in the room loves this guy. He's arguably one of their most important players on the ice. You know, just the way he plays I don't understand how you could. The Sabers have zero leverage. They just have no leverage. Whatever dollar he wants, whatever term he wants, within reason. I mean, he's not asking for the absolute moon here, but I'd get. I wouldn't be worried about an eight year term.
- [26:38]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
All right. You mentioned the goals against being an issue for the Sabres last season. Both of their starting goalies are. Both the goalies who are listed on their stats from last season were under.900. Say percentage. Is there improvement to come in that position? Like, who's the guy in Buffalo between the pipes? Is it Devin Levi? Is it Heka Lukanin? Is it somebody new? What's the solution? At least when we're talking about the goaltenders in terms of bringing the goals against average down.
- [27:12]
Host Haley Salvian
The starting goalie is supposed to be UKO Pekalukonen, but he's currently hurt, so.
- [27:17]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
Oh great.
- [27:17]
Host Haley Salvian
He's coming off a down year. As you mentioned, statistically it was not good. He broke out in the second half of the season before, got a nice big contract and last year wasn't so good. They actually turned to James Reimer, you know, late last season to steady things and he did. He's gone. They signed Alex Lyon on July 1st to be sort of a younger version of James Reimer, I guess, and push UKO Pekalukanin. But because of the injury that popped up sort of in the last couple of weeks, they also signed Alexander Georgiev to, you know, be. He's the one that's going to start, you know, their, their first preseason game and he's going to be a guy sort of competing in this mix as well. So a big question for them was whether UKO Pekalukan could, could bounce back. And now the question I think is there's that question, but there's also, if not, who else is there? You know, you're counting on two guys in Lyon and Georgiev who have had moments in their careers but hardly have a long track record. And so there's also Devin Levi waiting in the wings. Like you said, he's more than likely going to end up back in Rochester in the AHL for another year, but he'll also be there to push for starts and maybe, you know, try to work his way back up if there's injuries or anything else. But clearly they want a little bit more experience in the crease and Lucan and should be ready at some point early in the season. There's been positive reports on him early in camp, but it's not. It was Serious enough that they went out and got Georgiev and signed him for more than the minimum. So we'll see what happens in the crease. But that is probably the biggest question facing this team on the ice right now. Great.
- [29:07]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
Okay, let's go to our kind of final three rapid fire questions with you, Matthew. Do you think the Buffalo Sabers will finish higher or lower in the standings in last season and is this a playoff team?
- [29:20]
Host Haley Salvian
I think they'll finish higher in the standings because it's last year so much went wrong. I think it's a better team on paper. I think it is. Maybe not dramatically so, but better enough that they should be better. They had a 13 game winless streak in December last year. Avoid that and you should be a better team in the standings. Avoiding those streaks has not been the easiest thing in the world for this team. But I think they can be better. Whether they can make the playoffs, I'm not banking on it. I. There's some reason for hope for sure and maybe some post hype. You know, breakthrough finally comes for the Sabers team. That people have been waiting for years to be that team. I just wonder, you know, who's. Who's given up a spot. You know, I don't think the east is particularly strong as it has been in recent years. Like I could see Montreal falling out or, or Ottawa, but there's other teams knocking on the door and so it's not going to be an easy road for the Sabres. They're going to have to, to really earn it. And it's just hard for me to sit here and predict in front of your very large audience that they will finally make the playoffs. It seems like the safest are very handsome audience is that they, that they will not do it. Even though there's part of me that's getting sucked in a little bit, you know, by some of these new additions. I just don't think they're going to do it.
- [30:49]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
Who's their most important player?
- [30:51]
Host Haley Salvian
I think it's Tage Thompson. You know, obviously Rasmus Darling is hugely important and you know, I look at Tage Thompson as the guy that can put them over the top. You know, when he had 90 plus points a few years ago, they were right on the doorstep of making the playoffs. He won gold, you know, with Team USA at World Championships. He came back to Buffalo early. He's in terrific shape. Like if he can stay healthy, he's really pushing for a spot on the Olympic team. If he can push, you know, another 45 plus goal season you win in this league sometimes on the strength of your stars. And if the Sabres have a star, it's Tage Thompson and, and it's Rasmus, darling. So those guys are just hugely important. You know, you need those guys to stay healthy, but you also, you can't have 75 point Tage Thompson. I feel like you really need 90 point Tage Thompson. There's a different energy and confidence to this team when he's rolling. And at times over the last couple of years, mostly because of injuries, he hasn't always, you know, been consistently rolling in that way. So he's the guy I look at to carry the mail for this team.
- [32:04]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
Okay, and final question. Can you give us a title for your team season? It could be like a book or an album. Could be something you made up on your own. What's, what's your title for the Buffalo Sabres in 20, 25, 26?
- [32:18]
Host Haley Salvian
I'm going with Lindy Ruff's last ride. You know, he's in the, he's in the final year of his contract. He's getting up there in age like this is, this is it for Lindy Ruff. It feels like it's either going to work with the Sabers team and he's going to be able to finish his career by, by ending this horrible playoff drought that the franchise he loves so much has, has suffered through, or his contract's going to be up and, you know, the whole thing could, they could be starting from scratch, you know, so he has entered training camp. The off season additions that they made, you know, all these little things that they've done are aimed at making this team better defensively, making them, you know, a harder team to play against, which every coach in hockey loves to say. But he also, at, he's really, he's really big on Mason Gierson right now and he's really excited about this guy because this team didn't have an enforcer last year. They didn't have a guy that, you know, I don't know if your listeners were aware of the situation when Stefan Nason hit Tage Thompson up high and the Sabers didn't respond. And yeah, I think a lot of times there were teams taking liberties with, with Darlene and with some of their best players. And so they signed Garretson this summer and I didn't think much of it, but Lindy Ruff's really been, been pumping his tires early in camp. He's been skating with the NHL group like this is going to be their heavyweight. So I think Lindy Ruff says, you know, if I'm going down, if this is it, then I'm not going to have a soft team, right? I'm going to have a team that is. That is tough and hard to play against, that Buffalo can be proud of. So I'm curious to see if Lindy's got one more in him, right, Because I don't know if he gets another shot at coaching after this. I don't even know if he. He really wants to after this. So can he. Can he do it? Can he, you know, get one last feather in his cap, you know, to. To go off on a good note? Not to say if they make the playoffs, he's going to retire or anything like that, but he's like, I'm done.
- [34:23]
Arpon Basu
I'm out.
- [34:24]
Shayna Goldman
Can he keep.
- [34:26]
Host Haley Salvian
Can he keep this going and make people believe in this team again? So he's the main character in a lot of ways down there.
- [34:35]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
All right, perfect. Well, thank you so much, Matthew Fairburn. That was our Buffalo Sabers trot. An interesting start. We go from the Florida Panthers to the Buffalo Sabers, two different ends of the Atlantic Division. Now. Jonas Siegel is going to be joining us to preview the Toronto Maple Leafs. Bit of a mixed bag here in our first segment. Matthew, thank you so much.
- [34:56]
Host Haley Salvian
Thanks for having me, guys.
- [34:57]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
All right, Jonas Siegel is now here to preview the Toronto Maple Leafs with us. And Jonas, unfortunately, I'm sure you're ready for this. It's been what everyone wants to talk about. I'm sure, I'm sure you're not sick of it by now, but we got. You got to take us into Leaf's training camp. You've written about Mitch Marner's absence. We know it's looming large. Obviously there is no one to one replacement for him, especially beside Auston Matthews. But how is that absence kind of going at camp? And how might the Leafs minimize the damage or at least avoid a major step back without Mitch Marner?
- [35:33]
Jonas Siegel
So it's funny because, like, I think everyone wants to not talk about this and wants to not talk about Mitch Marner. I'm sure fans, I think players, I think the team, but like, there's just no avoiding it. Like, I'm sorry, like everything they do right now is connected back to Marner. Like they are trying to find a right winger on their top line who is not Marner. They are trying to figure out the way their lineup works, their power play. Like Marner was the quarterback of their number one power play unit. Suddenly they need a new person to play in that role. And they're going to try Morgan Riley like their penalty kill. Nobody killed more penalties up front for the Leafs than Marner. They have, you know, a new leadership group sort of. It doesn't include Marner. So like everything is connected back to Marner and honestly, like I think the entire season is going to be tied in some ways to Marner, especially when we get to the playoffs.
- [36:25]
Sean Gentile
When you talk about everything kind of ties into Marner, I think about someone like Austin Matthews and the chemistry he's built up with MARNER Both at. At 5, on 5 and on the power play. And I'm a big Matthew Nyes believer. I, I could see a nice Matthews line generating kind of a more north south identity than they've had in the past. But I still want to know, like, without that elite playmaker, what does that do to Auston Matthews and his production?
- [36:47]
Jonas Siegel
Totally. And, and that's like, that's another element of it. Like they played together for so long and it was always something that the coach, whether it was Craig Brubay last year or Sheldon Keefe before it could fall back on. It's like, okay, well if this isn't working, if Neanderth isn't working there, or Domi or Yarn Croc, whoever they've tried there, I can always just go back to Marner, one of the best forwards in the NHL, great on both ends of the ice. And so what does it look like now for Matthews when he doesn't have that player? And I think it's easy to look at like the goal scoring and I, and I think Matthews will be fine. Like we've seen him, him score without Marner over the years but, but also defensively, like you take away someone who is so good in his own zone, so good at knocking down pucks and anticipating and not just replace him, but replace him with like below average defenders. Like the gap from Marner to Max Domi defensively is like pretty much as big as it gets. So there's just going to be an adjustment period for all these guys and maybe it looks better, maybe it looks just different, which is probably where I land. But it's going to be something we haven't seen in quite a while, obviously, actually ever. You know, they've played together their entire careers.
- [37:50]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
One of the things that stands out to me with the Mitch Marner conversation is we got so used to the, the five man power play and I think you just mentioned it off the top to Jonas and that brings me to another question. And we Saw Brad Tree living, or we heard Broad Tree living at Media Day talking about this conversation he had with Morgan Riley that he took to heart. And they need Morgan Rielly to get back to this level for the Leafs to be successful. And I think that kind of goes hand in hand. Like can Morgan Riley find this level that Tree is talking about and can Morgan Riley be the guy to quarterback the power play again? Because it's not like they have some other forward waiting in the wings to run the power play the way that Mitch did.
- [38:32]
Jonas Siegel
Yeah, I think the big thing with, with Riley last year and why maybe this year will be different is he was just trying to play differently or Craig Brubay, like he was trying to adjust his style, reign in his style, worry basically just about defending. And I think he kind of lost himself in that because like Morgan Riley is going to need to take chances to be who he is. Like he needs. They need him to generate offense. Like they have basically no one on their defense who's going to generate offense besides him and like maybe 34 year old Oliver Ekman Larson. So you wonder if like year two Craig Berube, you're not so much in your head. It just goes a little bit better for him. And I thought in the second half he was actually better than he was in the first half. He doesn't have to worry now about who he's going to play with. Brandon Carlo is going to be his partner. So a lot of this stuff that was kind of lingering last year is gone.
- [39:22]
Max Boltman
Jonas, you mentioned, I think in the first answer, the idea of being different versus being better, which I think is a really interesting way to just frame things for Toronto this season. But I'm, I'm going to ask just directly where did they get better? Did they get better? Is, is this a team that's better in any way, in any spot, in any element now versus last year?
- [39:47]
Jonas Siegel
I think you could point to like their bottom six potentially as better or at least more defined. Like they were playing Max Domi as their third line center, like last year and the year before that and it really like never worked. And now they have Nicholas Wall and at least like they can build a third line that actually makes sense. And like Scott Lauden on their fourth line, like that makes some sense. Their defense is like more from the start built the way it's going to play as opposed to last year when it was kind of like uneasy. They were trying to work in these new pieces, so that's better. But I mean they lost like one of the best players in the league and they did not replace him. Like it's, it's hard to say you're going to get better. And one of the things like I am flaggin for this year and I'm going to be watching is their goaltending going to be as good as it was last year because it was like top five in the league tandem and if it's not and they can't score as much because Suddenly they lost 100 point Mitch Marner. What does that look like?
- [40:45]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
I'm not gonna lie. So I went into some of our preview content. Sean and I did some podcasts and I was like you know what, I'm willing to stick it out and be interested in this like addition by subtraction. Like maybe I'll buy into the like whatever. Mitch. Martyrs gone and things will be better, the vibes will be better. And then I read myrtles 5 reasons to be pessimistic about the Leafs and I was like oh like they were a crazy PDO team and yeah they lost much martyr and I am now way more pessimistic about the Toronto Maple Leafs heading into the season but for more reasons other than the Mitch Marner factor. So Jonas, do you have a reason other than their third line center maybe being better to be optimistic about the Toronto Maple Leafs this season?
- [41:27]
Jonas Siegel
I think the one thing, I guess the one thing that comes to mind is Auston Matthews. Like they won their division last year when he had like by his standards just a so so year. Like he was still like awesome by normal player standards. Like scored at a 40 goal pace, really good defensively, killed penalties regularly for the first time. But like what does it look like if he's back to being like 60 goal loss to Matthews who's also one of the best defensive players in the league. Like he, he never was right last year. Like you guys could see it, you could see it every night. Like it was a struggle for him in different ways physically and it's the start of camp. He looks great.
- [42:04]
Julian Mackenzie
Will that last?
- [42:04]
Jonas Siegel
We don't know but if it does and like he's back to like being in the running for the hard trophy. They are a different team.
- [42:12]
Max Boltman
Do they need Solars to be as good this year as he was last year? Because I think from the outside, I don't think people who don't pay a ton of attention to that team, I'm not sure they, they realize how much Stolars and Wall bail those guys out on a night to night basis do they need the same level of goaltending this year, 100%.
- [42:28]
Jonas Siegel
And like, he, he, he didn't play enough games to qualify, but like, he led the league and save percentage, he played. I think, I think he made 33 starts, which isn't a lot. And so the question is like, A, can he play more? Like, can he get up to like, 40 starts? Can him and Joseph Wall split? And then B, if he's playing more, can he be as effective as he was when he's playing 25 to 30ish games? And like last year, those 33 starts, that was a career high. So it's like, that's like one of the big unknowns with this team is like, can he not only keep up his level, but can he stay healthy? Can Joseph Wall stay healthy? Like, he has been dogged by injuries throughout his career. And if both of those things happen, they can be okay. If both guys stay healthy, both guys perform. But if, like, one takes a step back or one is hurt or both are hurt or both take a step back, I don't know what this looks like.
- [43:16]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
All right, so let's get to our rapid fire questions with you here, Jonas, number one, and this maybe we'll get at everything we've been discussing here. Do you think the Toronto Maple Leafs can finish higher or lower in the standings than last season? And will they make the playoffs?
- [43:29]
Jonas Siegel
They will make the playoffs. I think they'll finish with fewer points. Like, they had 108 points last year. And like you guys mentioned some of the factors that would suggest they won't have as many points. Like, I kind of envision them as, like, right around 100. So I don't know. Does that put them second in the division? Third in division? Like, the division is like, I don't know if the division's better than last year. Maybe it's a little bit worse. So they're probably still in the running for the Atlantic Division title. If, like, all these things happen. Like, if the goaltending is awesome again, if Matthews bounces back, if they can find, like, enough scoring beyond the obvious, guys. Like, we even mentioned John tavares. Like, he's 35 now. He had like an. The best shooting season of his career last year. Like, what happens if, like, there's some dip there? Where do they make that up? So I think they'll be like, my guess is like 101 points. How does that sound to you guys?
- [44:19]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
Yeah, I think that's fair.
- [44:21]
Sean Gentile
Specifically.
- [44:22]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
Wow.
- [44:23]
Fluto Shinzawa
Worse.
- [44:23]
Sean Gentile
Besides the Leafs in the division?
- [44:26]
Jonas Siegel
I don't know. I Guess like with the injuries to Florida, I kind of like the rest. Like Tampa, I always. Tampa scored a million goals last year. Like, if I was going to pick a team to win the division, I might pick Tampa. Like, I don't even know who I'd pick.
- [44:38]
Max Boltman
I don't know.
- [44:39]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
I think it's. I mean, I picked Tampa to win the cup last year, so maybe I should like pump the brakes on my. So did you.
- [44:47]
Sean Gentile
We all did those receipts for days.
- [44:49]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
We all, we're all Lightning fans here.
- [44:51]
Jonas Siegel
I'm with you guys. I am too.
- [44:54]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
But maybe we should all chill out. I think 100 point season is not over the top if all of the other things go right. But I think what makes the Leafs particularly interesting this year is this is maybe the first time in a while where it hasn't been like the same old story of like, yeah, they're going to be one of the top teams in the division and let's see what happens in playoffs. There's just a little bit more meat on the bone with the Leafs this season.
- [45:16]
Max Boltman
Dom's projection for you. Dom's projection model has them at 100.5 points, by the way. We're talking about them being a 100, a 100 point team or 101 point team.
- [45:25]
Jonas Siegel
They're in the middle because I think.
- [45:28]
Sean Gentile
I think every team in this division thinks they got better. So that's why I was like, I'm interested in the, like some. Someone is going to drop. But I think every team thinks they're better than they were last year in this division.
- [45:37]
Max Boltman
Yeah, we'll talk about the red ones later.
- [45:39]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
Yeah, yeah. It's just maxing. Like, think of the internal improvement. Jonas, who's the Toronto Maple Leaf's most important player.
- [45:47]
Jonas Siegel
I mentioned him earlier. It's Matthews. Like, I don't even know. I guess you could put the goalies in that conversation. But it's Matthews. Like, if he's so much more of. The burden is going to be on his shoulders now without Marner. Like offensively, defensively, it's even like little things media wise. Like suddenly there's just like one more, one fewer guy to, to stand up after a bad loss and take the questions. Like, there's just like, it's more on his shoulders. It's more on William Neil. Their shoulders. So it's Matthews. Like if they can get him back to what he was two years ago, maybe they can be okay.
- [46:19]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
Thought you were going to say Matthias Maceli.
- [46:23]
Jonas Siegel
I don't know where he'd rank in.
- [46:24]
Max Boltman
Those rankings number four.
- [46:27]
Jonas Siegel
Number four. Yeah, because he's.
- [46:28]
Max Boltman
Because he's their fourth best.
- [46:29]
Jonas Siegel
The big four, the new core four.
- [46:31]
Sean Gentile
He's the new 2M. Man, you needed a new MM in that core.
- [46:36]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
Jonas, can you give us a title for the Toronto Maple Leaf season? Like, it could be a book or an album. How do you kind of look at this team?
- [46:44]
Jonas Siegel
This is my favorite question. I thought about this, and I landed on. I don't know if you guys are Drake fans, but Drake has an album. Nothing was the same.
- [46:53]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
Okay.
- [46:53]
Jonas Siegel
But I'm gonna add a question mark to it because nothing is the same because Mitch Marner is gone. But, like, is. Is everything going to be the same in the playoffs? Like, we've seen this so many times that it's hard to, like, think that it's going to be different. Like, maybe one of these years will be different. They've talked about, like, changing who they are, which is always struck me as weird, because they were willing to bring back Mitch Marner and they wanted to change the identity of the team, and then they brought in three new players, and suddenly the team is different. So will it be the same as every other year, minus Mitch Marner, I guess, is my question.
- [47:25]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
I think that's perfect, actually.
- [47:27]
Sean Gentile
I love it.
- [47:28]
Jonas Siegel
I need, like, Austin Matthews face on the COVID Yeah.
- [47:31]
Sean Gentile
100.
- [47:31]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
With the light profile, with the. With the nice clouds in the background, Right?
- [47:37]
Host Haley Salvian
Yeah.
- [47:37]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
I think that's perfect. I liked that record. I know. I know exactly what you're talking about.
- [47:42]
Max Boltman
You could have gone. If you're reading this, it's too late.
- [47:44]
Jonas Siegel
I thought about that, but.
- [47:46]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
But then I thought, so far, so.
- [47:48]
Max Boltman
Far gone so far.
- [47:50]
Jonas Siegel
Maybe we could just do all the Drake albums.
- [47:54]
Sean Gentile
Scorpion, kind of.
- [47:55]
Jonas Siegel
They were stung.
- [47:57]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
Perfect. Thank you so much, Jonas. That was perfect. We're going to take our first break. When we come back, Shane is going to return to preview the Tampa Bay Lightning, all of our favorite team. So, Jonas, you can stick around if you want to geek out about the lightning with us before we get to Shayna. That will put Max in the hot seat as he previews the Detroit Red Wings. That is all coming up next on the Athletic Hockey Show.
- [48:20]
Sean Gentile
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Shayna Goldman
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- [50:50]
Sean Gentile
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- [51:07]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
All right. Welcome back to the Athletic Hockey Show. It is our deep dive Atlantic Division preview, and this is a little bit easy. We don't have to dial in a guest. He's already here. We've got the expert. It's Max Boltman talking about the Detroit Red Wings. What's up? Thanks.
- [51:23]
Sean Gentile
Pleasure to be on.
- [51:24]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
Staying on the pod. Yeah.
- [51:26]
Max Boltman
Thanks for. Thanks for making the time for us today. Max.
- [51:28]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
Max carving out two hours to talk about the Red Wings for 10 minutes. This is great, Max. Where should we start? Should we start with goaltending or internal improvement? What do you think's the single most important thing for the Red Wings this season? Is it somebody popping from their rookies or a young player, or is it the. The goaltender? What do you think?
- [51:52]
Sean Gentile
Well, you nailed the two, that. That's for sure. Let's start with goalie, because that's the big addition, right? Their offseason was not splashy to the extent that, you know, I think a lot of people hoped for. They were hoping that there could be a big free agent acquisition, a big trade. There is a trade, and it's for John Gibson. And there is a real chance that when we look back on this Red Wings off season in April, maybe that will be viewed as more splashy than I think it is at this moment, because they've lacked a real true number one. And I think it's hurt them in a couple of ways. First, obviously, in the caliber of goaltending they've gotten, right, I. I think they've wanted to have goalies who can carry them a little bit. They've put that kind of workload on a couple goalies plates trying to get them to 50 games, and what they've ended up resulting in is stretches of really good play from Alex Nadelkovich, Billy Husso, Cam Talbot, Alex Lyon, but also some real big dips when those guys inevitably ran into the. I think the fatigue, the physical wear and tear of that workload took on them. John Gibson's a guy that you're not as scared of that with. I think he's a guy who in his prime was used to taking 50, 55 plus starts a season. And if he can do that for them at that kind of 905 plus level, that would be a huge difference maker for them. Just be consistent in those stars. The second way I think it really makes a difference for them is that it will ease the load on Cam Talbot. I think Cam Talbot's a guy who they did stretch too thin last year, and if you look at his first 30 games for them, he had a.907 save percentage. But over the course of the season, it adds up. And he ends up at a.900. Like, I think if you. If you make that, which is, by the way, that's the difference between, like the 15th best goalie in the NHL and like the 30th. So that's a huge difference. And if you can keep Cam Talbot fresher, get that improved goaltending from Gibson and free up, you know, a healthier, fresher Cam Talbot. That would go a long way for them in goal.
- [53:35]
Max Boltman
Is it concerned that it sounds like they have two goaltenders who you'd like to cap at 30 or 35 games? Because that's what we saw from Gibson last year. He was, he was pretty good in a limited role. They want to limit camp Talbot start. That's all well and good, but there's 82 games in an NHL season. So like, is that, is that an issue?
- [53:52]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
And can I throw into there too? Because I think this goes along with a follow up I had. Is it workload for Gibson or is it just the fact that he was playing behind the Anaheim Ducks?
- [54:03]
Sean Gentile
Yeah, those two things go hand in hand. Right. I think they are bringing John Gibson and not hoping to cap him at 30 to 35 starts. I think they're going to be betting that getting him out of that rebuild environment allows him to bring hope. Maybe it's not the 911 save percentage that he had last year. Right. But if it's something closer that 905, 907, whatever, and he can do that in 45, 50 games, I think that would be the difference maker. But to Haley's point, that might not be that simple. It might be that the reason Gibson was able to be so good in his 29 starts last year was the same reason. I think he'll help Talbot. And if that's the case and you have two guys who are best in 30 to 35 starts, that is a problem. No doubt there's a possible solution to that problem if you're willing to give Sebastian Kosa 10 to 12 games this year. They have not yet signaled that that's the plan. That's my prediction that that will happen. Because they need to know what they have in him before his contract is up, before he's their probably full time backup goalie to Gibson next year. But that is one way to try to get around that. But it's, it's a very valid point that you have two goalies. You know, Talbot's older than Gibson, but both into their 30s. And it may be that neither is a true number one at this point. They're just hoping that Gibson will be.
- [55:13]
Max Boltman
How much more is it fair to expect from Lucas Raymond and Moritz Cider this year? Because I think both of those guys, they were the best versions of themselves that we've seen so far in their NHL careers. Last season, both of them were great. Is there more meat left on the bone for them? And how important is it for the Red Wings that there is? Because I, I think that's kind of the, the dual, the dual concern there is that it seems like they might need those guys to be a little bit better. And that's also a tough ask because they're already pretty good.
- [55:44]
Sean Gentile
Yeah, for sure. And I think certainly there is more meat on the bone for both. I think with Raymond, you can look at how he was tracking into the All Star break. I think he was threatening right around 90 points at that time and then came out of the. Or the four nations break, I should say came out of that. And him and Dylan Larkin both really went cold through the month of March. And I think that's probably the biggest key is can he stay on what that trajectory was, can he stay fresh? Certainly he's going to be on the Olympic team for Sweden. So it's not like that's going to be a variable eliminated this year. He's going to play more hockey, if anything, over that break. So I do think there is more in there. I think he is that kind of player who can be one of the very best wings in the NHL. You know, run your power play, score, but score 35, maybe even more goals than that. So I think there's a little more offense in there for sure and certainly teeing up the defense, but also with more cider. Right. There is more there too. I think as good as he's been in that matchup shutdown role where he takes some of the toughest minutes in the NHL and he survived him two years ago, thrived in him this past year, that's a big difference maker. I think there's one more step to go which is adding the offense into that tilting the ice is really good, really valuable. I think there is one more notch he can, he can step up to into, into the higher fringe Norris ballot.
- [57:02]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
Kind of territory, I guess beyond those two guys because obviously you hope for internal improvement, whether it's just continuing to push their ceiling even higher into All Star legit top line, top pair guys, which you could argue they already are. But can internal improvements beyond just Morit Cider and Lucas Raymond be enough to elevate the Red Wings into a legitimate playoff team?
- [57:29]
Sean Gentile
In theory, and that is certainly what the Red Wings are banking on. But you know, I, I, what I keep coming back to with this team is it's just so many ifs. And yeah, if they all happen, it's a playoff team. But how many ifs do you get to go your way? We talked about this, you know, earlier, like you could only have so many things go right and expect nothing to go wrong. So yeah, I think Marco Casper can be a legit 2C. Early in their training camp, his line with Patrick Kane and Alex Debris, it looks like the Red Wings best line. Casper looks awesome. He looks like he's every bit capable of repeating what he did in the second half and that would go a long way for them over a full season to improving. Simon Edmondson has missed the early part of training camp with the lower body injury, but what he showed last year was excellent. And if he can really carry a second pair, you know, behind Moritz Cider, that, that kind of accomplishes that factor you want to have with two top pair level defenseman split up on two different pairs kind of always on the ice. But they don't really have an answer next to Edmondson. They don't really have a top line left wing right now with, with Larkin and Raymond. So you're looking for these answers and I, I think those are the two guys, Casper and Edmondson, that I feel confident will continue to improve. And then you're just hoping to get more guys. You're hoping Albert Johansson, who spent some time on the second pair last year, can be a legit second pair guy, a legit number four, which isn't so much to ask, but it's yet another if, if someone establishes themselves next to Larkin and Raymond, whether that's cop, whether that's comfort, whether that's Elmer Soderblum, whether it's James Van Reems dyke. Someone has to be able to play with those guys and maximize them and not hamper them. And you'd like to think that over an 82 game season you find an answer, but I just don't know if you do. So they're banking on internal improvement.
- [59:07]
Host Haley Salvian
Haley?
- [59:07]
Sean Gentile
I'm just not sure it's reasonable to expect everything to go right in the way that I think they need it to.
- [59:12]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
What's your level of concern with the fact that there is a big question mark at the top line left wing? Isn't that kind of important?
- [59:18]
Sean Gentile
It's very important and I, I think it's just as important that there's a hole at second pair right D. I mean, I think you're, you're talking about two top half of the lineup roles that you're counting on to play 18 to 20 minutes a night and you don't have answers at on each side of the ice. Like that's where the off season comes into play, where I Think you expected at least one of those two holes to be filled. Just wasn't.
- [59:40]
Max Boltman
If the season started tomorrow, who would be that second pair right shot to you? Would it be Bernard Docker? Like, is that, is that what they're looking at right now?
- [59:47]
Sean Gentile
My guess is it would be Johansson. They played, he's a left shot, but they played him with Edmondson on his offhand last year and I thought that was probably the best look at it. But again, like Edmondson's been out for all the training camp, so we don't even have a, a sneak peek at like what they're experimenting with early in camp to go off of. It's, it's a whole lot of, you know, I don't think you want Travis Hamonick there. I don't think you want Justin hall there. Maybe it's Bernard Docker, but, you know, he's bounced around. I don't know that that's going to be their first option either. So my gut is probably Albert Johansson.
- [60:16]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
What year are we in? And like, how do in your calculus, what year of the rebuild is this?
- [60:24]
Sean Gentile
Well, it's, it's, it's a nine year playoff drought. It's year seven of Iserman, so I'm going to say year seven. I'm going to be a little charitable that, you know, you start from scratch when you get the new GM in. And I still think that's a really long rebuild.
- [60:37]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
Is this too many questions for year seven? Especially, like we're sitting here saying, who's playing with Dylan Larkin and Lucas Raymond? It's, I'm trying not to be pessimist here, but I mean, how to feel.
- [60:51]
Sean Gentile
It's perfectly fair. I, I think you would like to be in, you know, look at where Ottawa is and where even Montreal has been able to get to in a similar or shorter amount of time. And you can say, why has this not been Detroit? You can also look at Buffalo and say, hey, it's not the only team in the league that's going this way. But whenever you're in a sentence with Buffalo, you're not where you want to be. So I think that's a very valid point to make.
- [61:15]
Max Boltman
Yeah. Why do they have $12 million in cap space at the start of the season when they have two very obvious holes and a clear need to make the. Make the playoffs? Yeah.
- [61:24]
Sean Gentile
So as you know, on June 30, everyone in the league resigned with the Florida Panthers and Mitch Marner got traded to Vegas, and then Brock Besser resigned in Vancouver and nobody Left their teams this off season is what I'm getting at. They. They could have thrown $10 million at Mason Appleton instead of giving him three. I guess if they could just. They have the money, they could just give him a raise. But nobody got to market and it left them holding a big old bag of cash that I think they wanted to give to somebody and couldn't.
- [61:53]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
Left holding the bag. But I feel like I came off more negative than. I mean, I'm just fine.
- [62:00]
Max Boltman
Not.
- [62:00]
Sean Gentile
Not me.
- [62:01]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
Don't know how to feel. I. When I look at. And I feel like it's. I'm sure Red Wings fans are sick of it, but I always feel like I end up looking at Detroit, Buffalo and Ottawa and I don't feel like super enthused about any of the three yet. I think.
- [62:16]
Sean Gentile
Not enthused about Ottawa.
- [62:18]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
No interest. I'm not. But I'm also just seeing a bunch of people crashing out over Lena all Mark in the preseason, which also is not something. I mean, it's. It's the preseason. It's fine.
- [62:29]
Sean Gentile
He was so good last year. He blew me away with the difference that he made for the Senators. And that to me is like, you know.
- [62:35]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
Right. But now people are crashing out because he didn't play well in game one of the preseason. It's like, who cares?
- [62:41]
Max Boltman
It's fine. I'll take the over they were talking to here.
- [62:45]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
He'll be up soon. Okay, Max, let's get to a rapid fire. Are the Red Wings going to finish higher or lower in the standings? Will they make the playoffs?
- [62:55]
Sean Gentile
I think they will finish in the exact same order in the Atlantic, which is sixth with five more points than they had last year.
- [63:05]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
Will they make the playoffs?
- [63:07]
Sean Gentile
I do not believe they will. I think it's going to be too tough in the east this year, and I think I'm going to cover the same season for the third year in a row, maybe fourth year in a row. Congratulations.
- [63:16]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
Do you have any fresh ideas?
- [63:18]
Sean Gentile
Do I have any. Well, what a deep philosophical question that we cannot get into on this podcast.
- [63:25]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
Good story, ideas, new features. I don't know who's. Who's their most important player?
- [63:29]
Max Boltman
Max.
- [63:30]
Sean Gentile
Okay, so forever it's been Dylan Larkin. I'm gonna change that up a little bit and say more insider because of what we talked about earlier on the show, that I think that the question on their second pair is so big that they're going to ask as much of Moritzider as they probably ever have. And they've already asked an amazing amount of him, he has been everything for their blue line for the past two or three years, and I don't think that that role is going to get any less important now. I think he's a tone setter. I think he is an emotional kind of leader for them, and so I think he, in addition to being, you know, their. Their highest workload kind of player. So I. I think it's more of cider at this point.
- [64:08]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
All right, what's your. You've heard some inspo. Everyone's been doing well. What's your title for the team season?
- [64:15]
Sean Gentile
I'm so intimidated by how well everyone else did. Mine is hurry up and wait. Because of the urgency that it feels like there is around the Red Wings. Like, everyone is so urgently like, when is this going to end? And yet the message from the front office is still all about patience. And so I. That's where I kind of arrive at that. Hurry up and wait.
- [64:34]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
I'm feeling inspired. All right, it's year seven to nine, depending on when you start counting, depending how charitable you want to be. Still a lot to prove for Steve iserman's team in 20. 25, 26. Let's head south to Iserman's former team, the Bolts, in Tampa and hear from Shayna Goldman once again. Shayna, what's up? How's it going? It's been a while.
- [64:58]
Shayna Goldman
It's been a really long time. I missed you guys.
- [64:59]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
I know. This is great. I'm so glad to have you back. I think the way to start with Tampa for me, and we. We've mentioned this earlier in the show. We all picked them to win the cup last year. I'm feeling a little burned by it, and maybe that's just because I shouldn't have doubted the Florida Panthers and da, da, da. As we just discussed, they can do it again. Is the contention window actually still open for the Tampa Bay Lightning? Like, am I overreacting to them losing in the first round last year? Where is this team at, Shayna?
- [65:32]
Shayna Goldman
I'm doubling down on them. I'm in. I'm saying they're gonna go to the Stanley Cup Final because I love the idea of the state of Florida just taking things over. But, no, I think. I think this core is really good. And I also think this team is starting in a better position than they were last year. So I think it's. I think it's gonna work out. I think. I think everything's gonna be okay. It's gonna be a different postseason. And I also think they're not going to play Florida in round one, that's going to be a big deal.
- [65:58]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
So Tampa had the second best offense in the NHL last season, which I think is what a lot of us. Why a lot of us went all in on this team, you know. But it was largely carried by their top six. Outside of their top five forwards, only Nick Paul had more than 20 goals or 20 points. So if we consider Nick Paul to be their six best forward last season, nobody eclipsed 20 goals or 20 points. Is a full season of Yanni Gordon, Oliver, Bjork Strand enough to bolster the supporting cast for you, Shayna?
- [66:27]
Shayna Goldman
I still think they'll do something at the deadline because if any team loves to do something bold, whether it's something completely stupid or something that everyone's like, that's the best move in the world. It's Tampa. Like there's no in between. I feel like it's like you could go for Tanner Janeau or it's like, oh my God, Gordon Bjorkstan, perfect fits. But I think they're gonna, I think they're good enough to go up until the deadline and then that's where they can just work out, you know, the things here or there. And I think that's going to be a move on defense.
- [66:56]
Max Boltman
Their blue line makes sense. You saw Victor Headman playing at a pretty high level and they brought back Ryan McDonough last season obviously to eat some of the toughs and free up Headman to do what he does best, best. Both those guys are pretty deep in their 30s at this point though. Is there how much regression, how much age related decline do you think Tampa can withstand from those guys? Because you got to figure it's coming at some point and they rely on both, like, like we said, pretty heavily.
- [67:23]
Shayna Goldman
I think if they had a deeper playoff run last year, I would be a little bit more concerned about it. But I think that the two of them have been very good at, I don't want to say changing their games because they haven't done that, right. But like adjusting for age related declines, I think Ryan McDonough is such a smart player and he's not super, super physical, right. Like a guy like Eric Chernick is not going to age like a guy like Ryan McDonough. And that's just the fact of it. And we've seen that with previous partners for McDonough too, right? Like danger already comes and goes. Ryan McDonough is still like this like picture of stability and I think the fact that they brought him back is what's going to keep preserving Headman. If they were keep. If they were going to keep going at the rate that they were where Headman was doing too much, it was one thing, but I feel like he's that elite player that's going to break the aging curves. And I think Ryan McDonough is going to be like that bubble that helps him do it for another year next year. I'm not so sure, but I. I think that they have enough gas for like, this run.
- [68:20]
Sean Gentile
You talked back in the. When we were talking about the Panthers earlier in the show, about what their third line was able to do in the playoffs last year, to me, that was maybe the biggest factor in. In them getting over the hump. It's such a deep team, there's so many great players, but the third line was just incredible. And when I look at Tampa, that's the one place, when I see how they match up against a team like Florida, that it looks like a clear edge. Florida is in the third line, particularly in the offensive department. I know there's. They've. They've won cups with, like, almost all these guys that are on the third line, except for Bjork Strand, you know, Nick Paul, Yanni Gord have been amazing for them at times. But does this line really, like, can it stack up to Florida's third line, especially offensively?
- [68:55]
Shayna Goldman
No, it doesn't yet. But I also think we've seen Tampa Bay figure out things to do with their third line to maximize it. And you go back to their cup window, too, and it's like that third line was what we all talked about. And separately, like, Blake Coleman's really good, Johnny Gord's really good. Barkley Goudreau, he's solid defensively, but, like, you put the pieces together and you can find that recipe that just works. And I think that they're gonna have that. Like, I am very high on Oliver Bjergstrain. I think he's a much better offensive player than we saw in Seattle. He has a very good shot. He's good defensively. I think you could put him anywhere in the top nine and be happy. I think Gord, obviously, injuries held him back last year, but we saw him go to Tampa and it was that glow up. And I think if anybody knows how to put him in a position to succeed and, like, push the right buttons to get the most out of him, it's John Cooper. It just works. So you add the two of them together plus a Nick Paul, and I like it a lot, but I also like Gonzalez a lot. Like, for some reason, I. He's my breakout candidate of the year in Tampa.
- [69:47]
Max Boltman
Spicy. I like it.
- [69:48]
Shayna Goldman
Yeah, it's Sam Scavage and Gonzalez. Those are the two names that I. I'm, like, sticking to this year as, like, they're gonna take that next step. They, like these teams, need their younger guys to do it. And it feels like both Florida teams have that, like, little wild card there.
- [70:03]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
And not for nothing, but their top six is also sick. Like, Nikita Kutrov led the league in scoring again, and I feel like it's easy to for me, and I'm the one that did it. I opened the conversation with. Is their contention window still open? But I think it's easy to look at their depth and say, don't love it, but their top six is unbelievable. And Nikita Kutrov is maybe underrated in terms of top five players in the NHL.
- [70:30]
Shayna Goldman
Yeah, he absolutely is. And it's because of his playing style. Right. Like, we watch McDavid and McKinnon play, and I think we're all just, like, enamored by the speed and the flash of it all. Kucherov thinks game at a mile a minute. He doesn't play the game at a mile a minute, but it's okay because he's outsmarting everyone on the ice, and it's just a totally different playing style. So it's not going to get that same hype and love. But I think the thing that works for Tampa here is we know they could go with the stack top line and go point Kucherov and Gensel and not look back. But then they shook it up at the end of the year, and they. They spread the wealth a little bit more. And I think knowing that they can do it now, that they have more options to do it, is going to really benefit them because it's not just, okay, well, if Hagel's out, they're completely screwed. Which I kind of felt like it got to that point with all the injuries they had last postseason. So just figuring out different combinations and different ideas to have is going to go a long way.
- [71:18]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
Okay, you're familiar with the format now. You know the drill. Will the Bolts finish higher or lower in the standings than last season? Will they make the playoffs?
- [71:28]
Shayna Goldman
Yes, we know.
- [71:28]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
We know how you feel already. Stanley Cup Final stamp it.
- [71:32]
Shayna Goldman
Yes. And I think they're going to finish first in the division. I think that they are going to have to, like, play a wild card in round one. I think it's going to be totally different for Them this year. I think they know the regular season is more important. Now, again, that reminder of, like, if you want to control your own fate, not go up against one of these really good teams in the Atlantic, like, let the Leafs and Panthers kill each other around one, and then you can swoop in around two.
- [71:54]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
That let the Panthers kill the Leafs in round one.
- [71:57]
Shayna Goldman
Well, honestly.
- [72:00]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
Sorry, Myrtle made me a pessimist about the Leafs more than I ever have been. Who's the most important player on the Lightning?
- [72:08]
Shayna Goldman
Nikita Kutrov. He's the guy and, you know, he can do it on the top line. He's really good. At least I'm on second line with Hagel. He can do it all. He's amazing.
- [72:16]
Max Boltman
Mentioned Vasilevsky.
- [72:17]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
Nobody said Andre Vasilevsky.
- [72:20]
Shayna Goldman
Well, I don't. Okay, so I don't think.
- [72:22]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
We also didn't talk about Braden Point or Jake.
- [72:28]
Max Boltman
Obviously.
- [72:29]
Shayna Goldman
Yeah, I think it's going to be more important if they need to outscore their problems that they can because he hasn't been as perfect in the playoffs and I'm the idiot that's going to go, he's going to be amazing in the playoffs. It's okay. Let him get past round one and he'll get it together. But he. He has to, like, prove it to me again.
- [72:45]
Host Haley Salvian
Fair.
- [72:45]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
All right. We loved your title for the Panthers. What do you got for the Lightning? What's your book or album title for Tampa?
- [72:51]
Shayna Goldman
Okay, this one was really, really, really hard for me, but I finally settled on Time and Space with the. An old Turnstile album for this because I feel like I think about Kucherov and he creates time and space. I think in the regular season, they have all the time and space in the world to do what they want. And then in the playoffs, it's completely gone because they go up again. Seems like the Panthers that take it away and they're going to have to figure out a way to cut through that and separate themselves from the rest of the Atlantic.
- [73:14]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
Is Shayna. The only writer not named Sean Gentile who would bring up a Turnstile album in the NHL.
- [73:20]
Shayna Goldman
Honestly though, probably. And anyone else would think that, like, Glow on is their first album. Be like, oh, they only have two.
- [73:28]
Sean Gentile
We're talking.
- [73:29]
Max Boltman
We're talking about bands and teams whose window has potentially closed. Didn't like the Last Turn Silent.
- [73:35]
Shayna Goldman
It's good, it's good. It's different. It's called a natural evolution. And everyone is so stubborn that they're like, it all has to be like nonstop feeling. Listen. Favorite album of theirs, but we can have some diversity.
- [73:48]
Sean Gentile
That's fine.
- [73:50]
Arpon Basu
Goodbye.
- [73:50]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
Yeah, thanks a lot, Shayna. That's five teams down, three more to preview. Arpin Basu, Julian Mackenzie. Still to come, Fluto Shinzawa on the transition season for the Bruins. That's all coming up next on the Athletic Hockey Show.
- [74:10]
Sean Gentile
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Host Haley Salvian
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Sean Gentile
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Sean Gentile
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- [75:48]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
All right, as we continue our Atlantic Division preview, we are now pleased to be joined by Fluto Shinzawa, our Boston Bruins writer. Looks like you're in the ring. Get the perfect it's preview season. It's training camp season. Pluto, thanks so much for doing this.
- [76:01]
Fluto Shinzawa
You got it, Haley.
- [76:03]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
So I think the biggest question that we all have, Sean, Max and I that we wrote down in our doc here and maybe it's a very important question for Boston, the Boston Bruins and their fans. Can Jeremy Swayman return to form career worst numbers last year? An.892 say percentage, a.311 goals against average. Can he get back to being a true number one? And how critical is it for the Bruins that he does?
- [76:31]
Fluto Shinzawa
First part Haley, Yes. I think you'll get back. If you look at his career arc, whether it's college, it didn't spend that much time in the American League and then comes up to the varsity, it's all been, you look at the number of safe percentage above expected, it's it, the numbers are really, really good. But then if you look at the circumstances for last year, you can understand why Jeremy had the kind of 892 save percentage that was just an aberration. First, in terms of the partnership with Lina Sol Mark, it was ideal for both Jeremy and Linus. And then Linus gets traded, Jeremy's the number one. Like it was just optimal for both of those guys to know, okay, automatic, no sweat. Lena's one game, Jeremy next game, and off you go. It was just. And they got along terrifically. As, as everybody here in Boston knows with the hugs and everything, this and that, it was just ideal. So to have that disrupted from Jeremy's perspective, that's going to be a lot of pressure. And then second is, is the contract and the, the attached issue of him not being at training camp the entire training camp last year, that's just so hard to start behind. Yes, he was practicing with Boston University, but that's ncaa, that's not NHL. And then to have that pressure of the eight year deal, that's, that's, that's a big step. And then, then you can add in the fact that the team sucked in front of him. So you add up all those factors, you absolutely understand why Jeremy was not as good as he could have been. Last year. He had a very good reset in terms of world championships helping USA win gold beats out Joy Decord for the net. So all the signs are there. For Jeremy to be back now, he's gonna have to be exceptional for this team to be high end. So that's a big ask. But yes, he will, he will revert to who he has been before.
- [78:31]
Sean Gentile
I think the tough part for me, Fluta, whenever I'm looking at these teams that need a couple things to go right, is whenever that happens, there's usually a couple things that go wrong. A guy has a rebound year, someone else comes back down to earth and vice versa. And so one of the guys I'm really watching in that regard for the Bruins is Morgan Geekie. I thought he was fantastic last year. Huge breakout, age 26. That's right. When these breakouts can happen sometimes. He also had a 22% shooting percentage. So when you look at Morgan Geeky, like how much of that do you think is repeatable?
- [78:58]
Fluto Shinzawa
Repeatable? Absolutely Max. Absolutely repeatable. I remember talking last year at the end of the season to the folks at, at Clearsight analytics and they were really breaking down both the video and the chances, the five on five chances and they think that this is, this is sustainable. Yes, the shooting percentage was career best out of this world. But you look at the chances that Morgan was getting grade A's, a lot of them and it was. Yes, it helps to play with David Posternak. Posternak is just, we all know him as a goal scorer but he proved last year that he's just, he's terrific in terms of setting up goals for Morgan on the off wing. So they'll be back together. Posternach is practicing today for the first time in camp. He was, he's had some kind of tendonitis issue in his knee, but good to go.
- [79:51]
Host Haley Salvian
He'll be.
- [79:51]
Fluto Shinzawa
They'll be playing with Elias Lindholm on their first line. So yes, the, the shooting percentage, I don't know if it can be that, that high for Morgan but I think he can increase his volume too. So perhaps that offsets the fact that the percentage will in, in all likelihood go down. I think he's going to be more confident to take more shots. Not just one timers on, on the off wing but he really worked this year in terms of developing his strong side shot and he's got a good release. Not just a slap shot, not just the one timer like the puck does come off the, to stick well. So I, I expect Morgan geeky to be at that level of last year, perhaps even more so.
- [80:35]
Max Boltman
Ludo, we talked about Swayman already. I'm, I'm in your camp. I, I certainly think he's you know, got the track record and in the, in the ability to have a high end season as a, in as a, as an NHL goal turn of the season. Feel the same way about Charlie McAvoy. I think he's a potentially elite piece at the top of that positional group.
- [80:56]
Host Haley Salvian
Without a doubt.
- [80:56]
Max Boltman
Feel the same way about David Passernock who's you know, should be a fringy MVP candidate every single season. He's that good. Beyond those three guys, beyond those three big names at the top of, of of each, of each positional group. Potential franchise players in, in their own ways. I, I think three of them. What is a reason for short or long term excitement about this team? Because frankly from the outside it's a little tough to see.
- [81:22]
Fluto Shinzawa
You said it, Sean. That's absolutely the foundational players at those three positions. But after that it's okay. Hampus Lindholm, there's, there's something there. But who's your second line center? Casey Middlestep, maybe Pavel Zaka, maybe Zaka's been practicing today for the first time in camp on left wing. I think that's the more likely landing spot for, for, for Pavel to help out middle stat. But yeah, Victor Arvidson maybe is your number two right wing. That's a big, big ask for Victor. And then the third line. Okay, Tanner Janeau, your third line. Left wing. Maybe a kid in there in the middle. Number three, right wing. Look, they've got the market cornered on, on fourth line. That's, that's going to be pretty good.
- [82:15]
Max Boltman
Do we just, do we just jump down to James? Do we just jump down to James Higgins? Like is, is that, is that what the next high end, you know, reason for optimism is after the three big boys. I mean, my good goodness.
- [82:26]
Fluto Shinzawa
Yeah. And, and look, we still don't know what James is going to do this year as a sophomore at bc. His line mates are gone from last year, so that, that's a big challenge for him as I think he's still just 18. He's going to be turning 19. So Ryan Leonard and Perot are gone, so he's, he's gonna have to be the man. And then ideally for the Bruins, perhaps once BC wraps ups its season, he comes out, turns pro and then off we go. But yeah, beyond that, I'm looking at the roster. Look at this. No, no, no, no, no. Yeah, not much. So there's still building to be done here for sure.
- [83:04]
Sean Gentile
What do they think it is though? Because I, I think I saw a clip of maybe Zadorov or someone recently early in camp talking about people counting them out and they still think that there, there's more. What do they, what are their reasons.
- [83:13]
Fluto Shinzawa
That they give that they think they're going to be a playoff team, that the, the, those three players Postrock, McAvoy Swayman will be excellent. And that style wise, under Marco Sturm, they're going to be no nonsense, straight lines, black and white. Off we go. In terms of being physical, hard to play against. So. But yeah, in terms of skill, even the coach says, like, look, other teams have more skill than we do.
- [83:37]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
They're in this tough spot where they, if Jeremy Swayman returns to the level that we all think he can be, they're not going to be bad enough to make people who want the top picks Happy though they're probably just going to be stuck in the mushy middle. Maybe Fluto. But this kind of brings us to. We've got three questions for every writer and this is probably the perfect one here. More or less talking about what are the Bruins and looking at will they finish higher or lower in the standings than they did last season and do you think they can make the playoffs? In your professional expert opinion, what do you think?
- [84:14]
Sean Gentile
Higher.
- [84:15]
Fluto Shinzawa
Higher than last year. But that's, that's pretty easy to be worse. Horrible.
- [84:20]
Shayna Goldman
Right?
- [84:21]
Fluto Shinzawa
So they'll be better. Will they make the playoffs?
- [84:23]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
No. So be in the mushy middle.
- [84:25]
Shayna Goldman
Great.
- [84:25]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
We love that. As someone who covered the Calgary Flames, I'm always used to being like, yes, 13th, 13th overall pick. Let's go. Who is going to be the Boston Bruins most important player this season?
- [84:39]
Fluto Shinzawa
Of Coursenark is their best player, but I think the most important is Hampus Lindholm because they really miss him last year, 17 games, plays all situations. That's a big loss. So if, if they can get him back up to speed and he plays 80, 80 plus games and he's there with McAvoy as your number two, they'll be, they'll be in better shape.
- [84:57]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
Quick follow up there. Do you think you see him beside Charlie McAvoy or do they split them up to have like a good top four?
- [85:03]
Fluto Shinzawa
Yeah, Hampus will be on the second pairing. He's more of a shutdown guy. Maybe let Charlie express more of his offensive game with Mason Lori. So right now, Lindholm, Andrew Peak, that looks like your shutdown number two pairing.
- [85:17]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
Awesome. Okay, final question for you, Fluto. Can you give us a title like a book or an album title of your team season? And I apologize because if someone ever asked me this, I'd be like, I don't know, I, I can't do that. But let's see, what do you got? What do you got for us? What's the title?
- [85:32]
Fluto Shinzawa
It's a book title. It's a book on building muscle. It's called Stronger. And I think that's what they'll be, that, that plays into their identity of, of Geno, Corrali, Castle, Asmod, McAvoy in the back end. Zadorov. Yeah, this is going to be, they'll be entertaining. They're going to fight, they're going to check. They're going to do this and that in terms of the physicality without the playoffs. That's, that's, that's the big step. We'll See, I don't think so, but they'll be more. They'll be more physical, they'll be harder to play against. They'll be more entertaining.
- [86:06]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
I feel more optimistic and like, interested in the Bruins than I did before we chatted with you because I went into this being like, I am mystified what is happening here.
- [86:18]
Max Boltman
If you can't beat him, beat him up. That's always, that's. That's always a good route to take. Let's go.
- [86:22]
Fluto Shinzawa
We like the fights.
- [86:23]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
Yeah. Amazing. Thank you so much, Pluto. It's going to be an interesting transition year for the Bruins and their fans this season. So thanks for laying it all out for us.
- [86:30]
Fluto Shinzawa
You got it.
- [86:31]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
All right. Thanks a lot, Fluto. It's certainly going to be an interesting season for the Boston Bruins and their fans. Let's move on to the Ottawa Senators, who probably hope that their transition and their rebuild is officially over. They make their first playoff appearance in several years last season. Now we say hello to Julian Mackenzie in Canada's capital. Julian, what's up? How are the senses?
- [86:55]
Julian Mackenzie
Hey, guys. I think the sends are doing okay. I mean, I've. I've only known the Ottawa Senators as a playoff team since start covering this team.
- [87:04]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
Oh my God, that's so annoying.
- [87:08]
Host Haley Salvian
And we're off.
- [87:09]
Jonas Siegel
This is.
- [87:12]
Sean Gentile
I mean, you.
- [87:13]
Julian Mackenzie
You got playoffs with the Flames and I didn't get playoffs when I covered them.
- [87:17]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
That's true.
- [87:17]
Julian Mackenzie
I don't know if that's the trade off, but yeah, they seem pretty good. They seem pretty good with this team. Like, fans are excited. They like their owner. They like the core of players. They. There. There's expectations of them staying in the playoffs for a second consecutive year. Like things are. Are positive. I get the preseason. Their first preseason game didn't go as well as they would like. And Lena Solbarg thought his showing in preseason. Sorry, not preseason in training camp was terrible. But I, I think just the fact that Brady Tkachuk did what. Did what. What he was able to do in the postseason. Tim Stutzlift, he shoots a little bit more. Maybe he actually opens the door to superstardom. He's been knocking on that door. Jake Sanderson is starting to get a lot more respect around the league. A lot of their core pieces are. I mean, I mean, it worked for them last year. They made the playoffs. It's as good as it's been for this franchise in quite some time. So, yeah, I think things are good.
- [88:14]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
Yeah. Sounds a lot like you. You weren't in the trenches in Ottawa like I was.
- [88:19]
Julian Mackenzie
No, I was not in the trenches.
- [88:22]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
But the, I guess the big question you mentioned all these steps that they took last season. Can they take another one this year?
- [88:29]
Julian Mackenzie
That's been the big question that the organization has been asking everyone on this team to do. I mean, Brady Tkachuk worked on his conditioning this offseason. A lot of bike rides and high Watt rides just so we can get his endurance going. Jake Sanderson's a perfectionist in, in all the work that he's done to get himself better. He had a rough start to his year last year. He got better working with a skills coach in, in Jonathan Sigalette. I didn't even mention Shane Pinto, who I kind of look at this year as a bit of a prove it year for him with a contract coming up on the other side of this season, there's a lot of talent on the roster and they showed playing under Travis Green that they can make the playoffs and they can be that team. There's a lot of pressure on them, and rightly so, for them to be able to do it again. It's going to. And they didn't make that many changes to their roster. So, yeah, there's probably still that hole in the top six, I believe, in terms of offensive help. But you're. You still have a pretty good roster that showed that they could make the playoffs, and I think they can do it again. A lot of people in Ottawa think they can do it again, and I think people around the league think that they can do it again as well. And I know that Montreal's behind Buffalo. They're. They're on the. They're. They're wondering if this is the year they take that step. I'm still not convinced Boston is so awful that they can't put themselves in that conversation, but I don't know if they're a playoff team this coming year, but that's still a team. You have to think about Detroit. I don't like all the moves they made in the off season, but that's a team that's also competing for a playoff spot. You have to. There's a lot of pressure. They have to show that they are still above those crops of that crop of teams that they were able to be above to be in a wild card spot and then the teams above them. Is Tampa still good in that top three? Florida, Toronto? It's a lot of questions, but it starts with them internally getting better.
- [90:26]
Max Boltman
I think a big thing for them. And you mentioned Brady and you mentioned Stutzler and You mentioned Sanderson. I think either one or two or three of those guys really needs to step up and turn into the dude like the franchise guy who is best positioned to make that leap this season. Because I feel like over the last couple of years maybe my answers and your answers and the answers around the league have, have kind of fluctuated. So who seems like they're capable of taking that next step?
- [90:55]
Julian Mackenzie
I would think it has to be if you're going from like, I guess kind of like the big three where you're looking at maybe a Tim Stutzler and, and Brady and Jake Sanderson. Tim Stutzla I think has to be that guy as your, as your number one center. He was already challenged last year by Travis Green to get better on the defensive side. It seems like it was a little bit more of the same between Green and Stutzel for this year. And I already made the, the crack about him shooting. There are guys on this team obviously they know and Tim of, of all people, he knows as well he needs to get better in that regard because he has so much talent offensively. But if he's able to really, really show that he's a proper two way guy in this league, that goes a long way for this team going forward. I think with Brady, I don't want to say it's what you see, what you get, but I think he's proven that when he's healthy and he's playing at a high level, he'll show up for those big games. And Jake Sanderson, again just, I think he's taken that step as a guy who can provide offensively, who can go up against the opposing team's best players. I'm not as worried about Jake Sanderson taking that step. I think Brady Tkachuk as well has shown that he's capable of doing that too, so long as he stays healthy. Tim Stutzler, I think if he does take that step, that's the closest player on this team that they have to a superstar. If he gets himself at that point, we look at him and maybe the Ottawa Senators very differently.
- [92:17]
Sean Gentile
I look at it a little different. You mentioned, you know, one more player in the top six stepping up. I look at Dylan Cousins as a guy who's already put a year like that on his resume. In Buffalo he's been a 30 goal scorer. He's knocked on the door of 70 points. Yeah, you'd certainly want one of those big three to step up. 100% agree with that. But I think they can get the boost from A guy like Cousins recapturing that and even what you saw from him down the stretch, it wasn't there every single game maybe. But a lot of nights I think Dylan Cousins looks like the guy who can be the prototypical 2C on a contender.
- [92:46]
Julian Mackenzie
Here's. I'll. I'll go one step further. I know I, I mentioned that. 3. I was specifically just sticking in that pool. You could make an argument of all the players on the Ottawa Senators, that pressure of taking that next step, Dylan Cousins might feel it more than anybody. For Ottawa Senators fans, they've seen Tkachuk grow, they've seen Sanderson grow, they've seen Stutzler grow. Dylan Cousins, they've seen whatever they've seen from him. In Buffalo, there was that 1:30 goal season that he had. He looked really good coming out of the trade deadline playing with Drake Matherson and then he scores one goal in the playoffs. Doesn't look that great defensively, isn't great in the face off circle. I don't know if you guys saw it in the off season. I saw a bunch of sense fans putting him in trade packages trying to see if they could get Mason McTavish. Like I, I think for Dylan Cousins and let's not forget he's getting paid 7.1 millimeter for the next couple seasons too. This is not a guy who's getting paid. This is not a cheap deal, so to speak. I think of all the players on this roster because I think there's much more for him to prove considering the skill set that he has, the hype that went around him when he came into the league and what he was able to show in Buffalo in spite of the struggles that he went through there. I would make the argument of everyone on that roster, the person that has the most approved is that guy.
- [94:08]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
I think it's interesting. Do you see him penciling in as the 3C and them having Pinto with as the 2C to start the season or.
- [94:17]
Julian Mackenzie
I initially had it as and maybe I'm drawing a little bit more off of last year, but they had a line with David Per onto his left and, and Drake Batherson on the right and in camp we've seen Batterson together. I know they had Ridley Greg in preseason in their first preseason game, but I would think that there's probably a good chance that Travis Green goes back to that line if necessary. That might also depend on where Fabian Zetterland fits in the lineup too. That's someone who got himself paid this offseason and maybe that's a solid candidate to play on the right side with Tim Stutzler, but if it doesn't work with him there, maybe he plays on the left hand side of of Cousins. I just have a hard time thinking that the Senators would separate Cousins and Batherson together considering the rapport they've built with each other from their Hockey Canada days together and what they're able to do in the regular season last year. Whereas you keep Shane Pinto on a third line where you could have Ridley Greg to his left and if you want to keep Michael Amadio there, that's, that's a line that worked out there. If cold Giroux, if you want to bump him down, you can put him on the right hand side too. There's some different options at this point in camp where the Senators are still looking through and whether it's Pinto on a second or Pinto on a third, those options remain.
- [95:34]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
Maybe it's just like an old take, but I've always felt that the Sens lineup looks better if Shane Pinto is their three seeds. He's always been a more.
- [95:42]
Julian Mackenzie
I agree.
- [95:43]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
Good defensive guy. He can go from defense to offense. He's reliable. He was reliable as a rookie in the league, in the defensive zone, in the face off dot. So the lineup just seems like it shakes out better to Max's point. If Dylan Cousins can recapture that 30 goal legitimate 2C and then you can have Pinto and then your top nine looks a little bit. It just shakes out better.
- [96:06]
Julian Mackenzie
Absolutely. Like I just just to add here too, like Travis Green on the offensive side with Shane Pinto, he likes what he sees, but this is a guy he trusts defensively in the postseason going up against the Leafs best players. Pinto was getting those opportunities. I don't think there's any shame in seeing him in a 3C. I know Sens fans would love to see him in a higher role, but seeing the Sen center deputy Stutzler, Cousins, Pinto and then Lars Ellers won a Stanley cup before. That's pretty good center depth.
- [96:33]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
Yeah, yeah. Just there's nothing wrong with being a really good 3C. Let's go to a rapid fire. I guess because you hit Lena Salmark, that's going to be an important piece. So let's get to the big question that I'm sure Sens fans want to know. Are they going to finish higher or lower in the standings than last season and do you see this as a playoff team?
- [96:53]
Julian Mackenzie
They're a playoff team. My biggest question is I'm not sure how much higher they'll get and I Know, I kind of mentioned it at the beginning of. Of the segment, but I'm really wondering which of those teams that finish above them in the standings stands to fall is. Is Toronto, after what they went through with Marner, are they taking a step back? Is Tampa taking a step back? Florida. They have the injury to Matthew Tkachuk and they have a lot of mileage on them from the last three seasons. Are they taking a step back? I mean, we still look at them as a contender. It doesn't matter to me if they're in the top three or a wild card team. There's a strong chance when the playoffs come, I'm picking the Florida Panthers to beat whoever in the first round and maybe beyond. But depending on what happens with them in the regular season, let's say for argument's sake, they get off to a so so start. They're clearly feeling the fact that a player like Matthew Kachuk isn't in their lineup and not everyone's up to up the snuff yet. Maybe it results in them finishing lower in the standings. Maybe it results in them being one or two in the wild card. Does that actually open the door for Ottawa to be a top three team? That also depends on how good Ottawa plays. I think a lot of it will depend on other teams. I think the sense of course as well. Like they have to play well, but I. I need to know how these teams above them play.
- [98:14]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
I feel like they can probably just stay where they were, like fourth in the Atlantic. Fourth or fifth probably seems fair.
- [98:20]
Sean Gentile
Might not be the worst thing either. Like if you're the sense and you might be licking your chops at the idea of going through the metro path instead of the Atlantic path in the playoffs.
- [98:27]
Julian Mackenzie
Yeah, I don't think that's so. I don't think that's so bad either.
- [98:31]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
Who's their most important player? Julian.
- [98:34]
Julian Mackenzie
I have like a one and a one a answer to this.
- [98:37]
Host Haley Salvian
Like.
- [98:37]
Julian Mackenzie
Like Brady to me is the. Like he's the guy. He stirs the drink. I don't know if I have the saying right. I probably mangled it. But as he goes this. Yeah, the straw that stirs the drink. Yeah, that right. Oh, I got it right. He's that. I just. I just think just off of how he played last year when he was healthy in the playoffs, even if he wasn't at a hundred percent, he dragged his team in the fight. And if he's not there, even if teammates might get annoyed in the second half of the year, if him saying every day we got to play with the playoff mentality. They know that once they have that guy on their team, he's bringing them in it. But also Lina Solberg has to be 1A because if Lina Sol Mark doesn't play well, you're asking Levy, Mary Line and who saved them last year. And I know his workload will increase. You're asking a lot of him to play well. And if, for whatever reason, if he doesn't work out, there's a lot of pressure on Matt Silgaard and the rest of your goaltending depth, which I still don't. I still think beyond Mary Line and I have questions about their depth, which I guess is on the lower rung of questions around this team.
- [99:45]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
But you probably shouldn't have to get that far. If Lena Salmark's like that's, that's a failure on a lot of levels. If we're going down to like their third string goalie.
- [99:53]
Max Boltman
Talking about mad saving your season like something, something dramatic has gone wrong.
- [99:58]
Julian Mackenzie
Yeah, I mean that's kind of what happened last year.
- [100:00]
Sean Gentile
Right.
- [100:01]
Julian Mackenzie
Because they had all Mark and he was hurt and then Matt. So Guard couldn't do it and then they went to Levy Marolina. So yeah, I, I think it's. It's Cha Chuck and Omar to that question.
- [100:11]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
All right, final question. Julian, can you give us a title for the Ottawa Senator season? Can be a book, an album, you can make it up yourself. What's the title for the sense in.
- [100:22]
Julian Mackenzie
2025, 26 with respect to the TV show that already exists? I think it's a layup. The Brady Bunch.
- [100:32]
Host Haley Salvian
I love it.
- [100:33]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
That's good.
- [100:33]
Julian Mackenzie
I think it's pretty self explanatory.
- [100:36]
Sean Gentile
I was not expecting that. Who's getting hit by a football.
- [100:41]
Julian Mackenzie
Hallmark? Probably Omar. Yeah.
- [100:45]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
Disaster. All right, Julian, thank you so much. We're gonna see you. Sean and I will see you in a couple days to chat about our old Calgary Flames for the Pacific Division preview.
- [100:56]
Shayna Goldman
Thank you.
- [100:57]
Julian Mackenzie
Looking forward to it.
- [100:59]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
Okay, Sean and Max, we've got one more team left to go and that's the Montreal Canadiens and ARP and Basu. But I have to ask you because now we have hit the sends, the Sabers and the Red Wings on this preview and these are three teams that we bunch together all the time. Which star forward slash star defender would you like bank all of your money on? I've just. Since we've talked about everything, we've talked about Brady and Jake Sanderson, we've talked about Tage Thompson and Rasmus. Darling We've talked about Lucas Raymond and Maurit Cider. Which of those duos would you guys bank as? Like, a core duo?
- [101:37]
Sean Gentile
I take the sense.
- [101:39]
Max Boltman
Me too.
- [101:41]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
Brady Kachuk had the fewest points of the three. Four.
- [101:45]
Max Boltman
Yes, he did.
- [101:46]
Shayna Goldman
Discussed.
- [101:47]
Sean Gentile
He's the. He's the rarest of the bunch. I think any of those teams would say, give me Brady too.
- [101:52]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
Brady and Jake Sanderson.
- [101:53]
Max Boltman
You know, maybe if. If he just finishes a little bit around the net, this could be talking about a 55. I. I know. That's a. That's a joke. And Sanderson, I think I pick him because of Sanderson.
- [102:05]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
Yeah.
- [102:05]
Max Boltman
I. I think Ottawa is. I think Otto was my. My pick because of Sanderson for sure.
- [102:10]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
If Brady could. Chuck can be 20, 23, 24. Brady Tkachuk. That is a shoe in. Because he's the unicorn and because of Jake Sanderson. But I just think it's interesting because Lucas Raymond outscored all of them.
- [102:23]
Max Boltman
Well, but.
- [102:23]
Sean Gentile
Okay, so let me. Let me flip that back.
- [102:25]
Host Haley Salvian
Right?
- [102:26]
Sean Gentile
If you had picked Tim Stutzla, you. You picked Brady over Tim Stutzla wouldn't make it.
- [102:30]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
Well, because Julian did.
- [102:32]
Host Haley Salvian
Right.
- [102:32]
Sean Gentile
Okay. But he picked him over Tim Stutzler, and Tim Stutzler versus Lucas Raymond is probably a coin flip. So the fact that Brady's over Stutzler is kind of telling in itself, isn't it?
- [102:42]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
Mm. It's interesting. I don't know what I would pick. I'm just the host. I don't have to answer. This brings us to our final team to preview in the Atlantic this season. A storied franchise who made the playoffs last season for the first time in a long time after pretty lengthy rebuild. Arpin Basu joins us now from Montreal. Arpin, thanks for doing this. How's it going?
- [103:07]
Arpon Basu
My pleasure, guys. Happy to see you all. So we maybe after a nice weekend in New York, but.
- [103:13]
Max Boltman
Yeah, right. Right.
- [103:16]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
Yeah, it's been a while. This is maybe the best for last. Like, maybe it's different for you, Arpin, because you're there. You're in the mix every single day. But from the outside, going through this preview, I might be the most interested in the Montreal Canadiens at the Atlantic than any other team that. Just me being some person sitting at home writing questions for a podcast. Or is this a legitimately juicy season in Montreal?
- [103:43]
Arpon Basu
Oh, I think it is for sure. I mean, listen, they're no. They're no shoe in to make the playoffs, but the youngest team to ever make the playoffs got younger in the off season. But in Doing so got more talented and upgraded. You know, you basically replace a retired David Svard with Noah Dobson and you replace Christian Dvorak and Yoel Armia with Yvonne Dimitov and Zach Bolduc. So you know, they've gotten younger, but the core is like a year more experience. So I feel like these are like two concepts that are going to be butting heads all season. This is the most talented version of the Canadiens that the Jeff Gordon, Ken Hughes administration has put together. But they are even younger than they were a year ago and could potentially have the youngest opening night lineup in the NHL, but are legitimate contenders to make the playoffs. And so it's, it's an interesting sort of, you know, they're at a stage in their rebuild where you can go with a team like this and, and look for growth in the youth. But there's a definite expectation and you know, Jeff Gordon and Ken Hughes said they would be disappointed if this team didn't make the playoffs. So there's heightened expectations on a very, very young group but talented group of players. So I think that does make them legitimately interesting. On top of the fact that you could potentially see a team have back to back Calder trophy winners, which you don't see very often or ever really.
- [105:04]
Sean Gentile
They were so exciting last year and the way they finished was amazing. I also feel like a lot went right for them. I mean, I think the world of Nick Suzuki as a player. I don't know that anyone can say for certain he's a 90 point guy a second year in a row. I don't know that anyone could say for certain Sam Montebo is going to be quite as good as he was a year ago. Like, what are the things you're watching that are going to determine whether they can repeat this besides obviously the new faces?
- [105:27]
Arpon Basu
Yeah, I think there's, there are a lot of question marks like that, you know, like what is Cole Caulfield ceiling? Has he reached it? Is he going to be a perennial 40 goal guy? Will he ever even score 40 goals? He came really close last year, Nick Suzuki, totally fair because he went on a total heater after the Four Nations. I think he was fourth in NHL scoring from that point on. Can he spread that out over the course of the full season? Perhaps? Probably. I would say so. Maybe he can get back to that 90 point level just in a different way. But that definitely felt like a guy taking a step into a tier that personally I didn't, I wasn't sure that he could reach. But I think he does have Somewhat of a burden to prove that he can do it again. Lane Hudson, I don't have too many questions about what he can do this season, but I think it would be fair to wonder can is a sophomore is the second year gonna, will it have given NHL teams a year of sort of data to, to work with in terms of how to defend him, how to avoid being made to look stupid by him? There's a lot of things there. So there's a lot of question marks and, and that's not even counting, you know, some of their players. Patrick Line A who knows what he can do. Kirby Doc, who knows what he can do after back to back years of, of really devastating ACL tears on his knee and a series of other questions. So yeah, I don't. I the one thing that happened last year, aside from Doc and a song, aside from Kaden Gooley slicing his own leg open, this team was basically injury free last year. And so there are a lot of things that went right for them that's not realistic to happen every year. So how this team could, could deal with some adversity thrown their way in that, in that way is another question mark. Because it's, it's not, it's not going to be as smooth sailing as it was last season just from a health standpoint.
- [107:17]
Max Boltman
They sent two first round picks and Emil Hyneman to the Islanders for Noah Dobson. So that's a, that's a decent package obviously going back. What does Noah Dobson do for them overall for, for this season? What specifically does he mean for Lane Hudson? Because I think that's how a lot of that trade, or at least a portion of that trade was viewed was, was the effect that, you know, those two guys are going to have on, on each other moving forward.
- [107:41]
Arpon Basu
Well, what's interesting about that is that so Mike Matheson has been paired with no adoption from the beginning of camp and Marty St. Louis has come out and said that's going to be, that's likely to be our pairing. So that leaves Kaden Gooley with Lane Hudson. So now you have Dobson and Hudson on separate pairings, eating up 45 minutes a night out of 60, giving you a pretty darn good puck moving offensive D on the ice for more than two thirds of the game. So that's one development. The other thing is that, you know, Lane Hudson, we just saw their power play units the other day and, and Lane Hudson is still on the top unit and no, Dobson is quarterbacking the second unit which gives them two very, very dangerous power play units like, the second unit has no Dobson, Patrick line A, Kirby Doc, Yvonne Davidov, and Brandon Gallagher. And I would argue that Demitov line and Dobson in particular would be on the first units of 90 of NHL teams. And they're on the second unit here. So it really gives them a lot of. A lot of options. But in terms of how it impacts Lane Hudson, I mean, I don't. I don't know to what extent it does because they won't be playing together. And I know that would have been an option, seeing as it's not. I think, you know, I think Lane Hudson's minutes are going to be kept a bit more under control. He was playing a lot towards the end of last season. He was relied on in every single offensive opportunity more often than not. Getting deployed behind the Suzuki line, I think he's gonna get that a lot, but not nearly as much because you have such a viable mobile option in the Maths and Dobson pairing that are going to eat up some of those offensive zone starts. So I think he'll have a more manageable workload than he did as a rookie. And frankly, what he did as a rookie, considering how much he was leaned on, was pretty remarkable.
- [109:31]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
You mentioned the injury that Kirby Dock is. Is coming off of. He also might have to play a really important position for the Montreal Canadiens. I know you've covered this beyond the injury and his recovery, just the level of play that Kirby Doc can bring. Like, can he be the 2C that the Canadiens probably need him to be?
- [109:51]
Arpon Basu
I mean, he can. Will he? Like, that's. That's the question. Like, he can for sure. Like, he has the talent, he has the toolkit. You know, when Kirby Doc's going, he can be a really impactful player. And like this, this is going back two, three years now almost. But towards the end of his first season in Montreal, you saw like, kind of a nasty version of Kirby Doc, and that's the version you. You would like to see. And so I think the one thing that might actually help Doc here is Demitov having Davidov on his line. You know, Jeff Gordon was asked point blank, kind of on the opening event of Canadians training camp. They have a golf tournament every year, and Jeff Gordon was asked point blank. You know, Gordon mentioned at the end of last season that maybe we don't need a center. Maybe there are some wingers in the league who can drive their line. We didn't realize it at the time that he might have been talking about.
- [110:44]
Host Haley Salvian
Demeanor, but he could have been talking about anybody.
- [110:47]
Arpon Basu
You know, that's it like we thought he was talking about a player he might go out and get. And you know, you see examples of it like Caprizov is the line driver. Like, Panarin's been a line driver for years. It can't happen to Gutrov. Like you can't happen from the wing. They all happen to be Russian, the guys I named. But there are other non Russians who can do it too. Dimitov, he was asked about Demitov. Like you said that at the end of last season. Do you. Is it fair to expect the meat of to do that? Can he do that? Is it fair to expect him to do it as a rookie? And Gordon was just kind of like, yeah, like it is fair. Like, I mean, we saw Hudson do it last year. Like, we think he can do it and we think he can do it. As let's see if he can do it as soon as this year. But we see no reason why not. So I think having a guy that takes a bit of the burden off Doc to drive his line might actually help him make him more of a complimentary piece of that line. But he and line A are obviously huge question marks. You know, they both coming into the season with a bit of momentum. You know, Line has never had a healthy off season. It's been three, four years since he's been healthy coming into training camp. And Doc obviously had a really intense summer of. Of preparation and admitted that last summer he did not take it nearly as seriously as he should have. So remains to be seen what the results of that will be. But. And it remains to be seen how. How long it takes Doc to get going because back to back ACL tears on the same knee is not an easy thing to. To get up to speed with. But there's no doubt that that is a pivotal, pivotal piece of this team because if Doc does not work out, they don't have a real viable replacement for them.
- [112:23]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
Yeah, a lot of excitement around the Montreal Canadiens, but also a lot of questions. I saw that Martin St. Louise said, Patrick, Line A, we might see the best version of him this season, but that's obviously still a question. Your eyes, your ice, Lavkoski. Potentially a big season. Maybe some pressure coming up on him. So, yeah, Montreal, Canadien, super interesting. Arpin, we have three questions for you. You're the final one to answer them. No pressure. Everyone's been killing it with their title for their team season. So we'll see. We'll get there in a second. But first, will the Montreal Canadiens finish higher or lower in the standings than last season. And do you think they can make the playoffs?
- [113:01]
Arpon Basu
I do think they can make the playoffs. I don't necessarily think they will finish. I think they'll finish with more points than they did last season. I don't necessarily think they will finish higher in the standings. It's going to be real tough, and there's a lot of teams pushing that didn't make the playoffs last year. I think the Canadians might get in roughly in the same position they did a year ago.
- [113:20]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
Okay, who's their most important player from all the guys that we've been talking about today? I mean, or someone we didn't mention?
- [113:27]
Arpon Basu
Well, to me. To me, the word important can be interpreted in many ways. Like, to me, it's Doc, right? We just talked about it. They need him to hit and, you know, they've. He was one of the first big moves of this administration, you know, obviously traded for at the draft hosted in Montreal. Shortly after taking Slafkovsky number one overall. If he doesn't work out, the Canadians have a massive hole in their. Not just in their lineup this season, but in their rebuild in general. So how Doc does this year is going to be really consequential for. For where the Canadians go moving forward. So I. I'm gonna go with him.
- [114:05]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
All right. Can you give us a title for your team season? Can be a book, can be an album. What do you got?
- [114:10]
Arpon Basu
See, I had picked a movie.
- [114:12]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
Oh, that's fine too. But the movie, Cinema.
- [114:14]
Arpon Basu
The movie is based on a book. So I picked. I picked Stand by Me, which is based on the book the Body by Stephen King, which is, to me, the ultimate coming of age movie. Right. And so the Canadians are in a. Are in a port, like in the period of their rebuild, where they need a lot of guys to come of age. Doc Slafkovsky, Suzuki, Coffee, all the guys we talked about, Hudson Demitov, like, all these young guys haven't mentioned Kaden Gooley, who I think is an incredibly important piece of the whole thing. And it's probably really underrated around the league, but this is a coming of age season for the Canadians. You know, like guys like Suzuki and Caulfield, like, they don't want to hear about how young they are. They feel that they've gained a lot of experience and that they're ready to take a step. And no one really, everyone looks at their age and says, well, you're not ready to take that step. So can this group come of age? That's the question. And to me, if you made a list of coming of age movies, Stand By Me would be number one.
- [115:08]
Max Boltman
Who is the Teddy Duchamp on the.
- [115:11]
Arpon Basu
I'm not, I'm not, I'm not assigning cast roles.
- [115:14]
Fluto Shinzawa
Who's burned?
- [115:15]
Max Boltman
Come on, let's go. Dud.
- [115:17]
Arpon Basu
I know I, I didn't go that deep on it, but yeah, the Will Wheaton character, I think would probably be Nick. They actually, they actually talk kind of similarly. Yeah, they have a similar cadence to the way they talk. So, yeah, I would, I'd be comfortable with that. But yeah, it's, you know, at some point, at some point this year, at some point this season, there'll be like some massive collective puke when this team goes on, when this team goes on some sort of losing streak. So, yeah, but yeah, this is, this is a coming of age. I could have picked any coming of age story, but that's really what the story of this team is, is. Can these guys, can these guys take a step in their composure and, and, and their ability to withstand the ebbs and flows of an NHL season? Because last season was a, was a season of streaks. Losing streaks. Winning streak. Losing streak, Winning streak. And the one big word that came out at the beginning of training camp was, can this group find consistency? And, and generally you get consistency with experience. So let's see.
- [116:13]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
Perfect. Amazing. Well, Arpin, thank you so much. That is it for today. Thank you to all of our guests, our amazing producer Jeff, for lining everybody up and keeping us on time. Thanks everyone for listening to the Athletic Hockey Show. This was our Atlantic division preview. You can tune in tomorrow for our Metro division preview with Mark Lazarus, Jesse Granger and Sean Max. And do Sean Gentili's nemesis. Sean and I will return on Thursday with Jesse Granger to preview the Pacific Division right here on the Athletic Coffee Show.
- [116:53]
Shayna Goldman
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Sean Gentile
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- [117:38]
Host Sean Gentile or Haley Salvian (podcast host)
You know we love recommending new movies for you guys to watch and I'm obsessed with Regretting youg. It's based on the best selling book Regretting youg introducing audiences to Morgan Grant, played by Allison Williams. We love her and girls and her daughter Clara, who's played by McKenna Grace as they explore what's left behind after a devastating accident reveals a shocking betrayal and forces them to confront family secrets, redefine love and rediscover each other. Regretting you is a story of growth, resilience and self discovery in the aftermath of tragedy. It also stars Dave Franco and Mason Thames with Scott Eastwood and Willa Fitzgerald and it's in theaters this October. It has an all star cast based on the book written by number one New York Times bestselling author Colleen Hoover and director Josh Boone is no stranger to bringing these books to life. He's the guy behind the fault in our Stars. It's the perfect film to share with your best friend, your mom, your grandma, your high school niece. It's filled with love, tears and laughter, balancing comedy with romance and drama. But you know what sounds right up our alley. It'll be available in the US October 24, 2025. To watch on the big screen, see it at a theater near.