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- [00:00]
Matt Larkin
You know we love recommending new movies.
- [00:03]
Sean McIndoo
For you guys to watch and I'm.
- [00:04]
Matt Larkin
Obsessed with Regretting youg. It's based on the best selling book Regretting youg introducing audiences to Morgan Grant, played by Allison Williams. We love her and girls and her daughter Clara, who's played by McKenna Grace as they explore what's left behind after a devastating accident, reveals a shocking betrayal and forces them to confront family secrets, redefine love and rediscover each other. Regretting youg is a story of growth, resilience and self discovery in the aftermath of tragedy. It also stars Dave Franco and Mason Thames with Scott Eastwood and Willa Fitzgerald and it's in theaters this October. It has an all star cast based on the book written by number one.
- [00:45]
Sean McIndoo
New York Times bestselling author Colleen Hoover.
- [00:48]
Matt Larkin
And director Josh Boone is no stranger to bringing these books to life. He he's the guy behind the Fault in Our Stars.
- [00:55]
Scott Wheeler
It's the perfect film to share with.
- [00:57]
Sean McIndoo
Your best friend, your mom, your grandma.
- [00:58]
Matt Larkin
Your high school niece. It's filled with love, tears and laughter.
- [01:02]
Sean McIndoo
Balancing comedy with romance and drama.
- [01:04]
Matt Larkin
But you know what sounds right up our alley? It'll be available in the US October 24, 2025 to watch on the big screen. See it at a theater near you.
- [01:15]
Jesse Granger
AI companies have unique business models, each with distinct billing needs.
- [01:19]
Mark Lazarus
Stripe is the go to choice for.
- [01:21]
Jesse Granger
AI leaders from early stage startups to scaled enterprises. With Stripe billing, you can support any business model and easily align your monetization strategy with customer value. Join the ranks of 78% of the Forbes AI 50 and millions of businesses worldwide that trust Stripe to help them.
- [01:39]
Mark Lazarus
Build more profitable scalable businesses. Discover more@swepe.com Got a new puppy or kitten? Congrats. But also yikes. Between crates, beds, toys, treats and those first few vet visits, you've probably already dropped a small fortune. Which is where Lemonade Pet Insurance comes in. It helps you cover vet costs so.
- [01:58]
Scott Wheeler
That you can focus on what's best.
- [01:59]
Mark Lazarus
For you and your new pet. The coverage is customizable, sign up is quick and easy, and your claims are handled in as little as three seconds. Lemonade offers a package specifically for puppies and kittens. Get a'llemonade.com pet your future self will thank you. Your pet won't. They don't know what insurance is. This is the Athletic Hockey Show. Hello and welcome to the Athletic Hockey Show. I am Mark Lazarus, joined today by Jesse Granger and Sean McIndoo. You've already heard our division previews for the Atlantic and Metro Divisions. Today we focus on the Central with a cavalcade of athletic writers to come in and talk to us about what? You know, in my probably biased opinion, since I'm based in Chicago, is the best division in hockey. And to start, we're bringing in Peter Ball to talk about his old team, the Colorado Avalanche. Now, Peter, I was there last may when Nathan McKinnon looked like he wanted to kill everybody in the locker room after the avalanche blew a 2 nothing lead late in the third period. Mikko Rantnan, of all guys, scoring a hat trick in the third period of that game. The Haves dominated that series and lost. They lost when Gabriel Landiscog's comeback game at home, they lost despite dominating the first three games. They had more chances, more shot attempts, everything. Still lost. Are the AVS in danger of becoming a One cup wonder here?
- [03:46]
Peter Ball
I mean, they're in danger of only winning one cup during this era. I don't know if that makes you a One cup wonder. I mean, any team that wins a Cup is, is pretty special. And there are a lot of teams that would, would, would take that. I, I suppose I'm saying. But yeah, there, I mean, look, this is a, a team that is firmly in the middle of its window. It needs to be winning. Now you have Nathan McKinnon and Kale Makara in their primes and they've got to do everything they can to, to at least get them on another deep run because you know, they're going to be doing what they do and, and the rest of the team kind of has to find a way to win with and around them. And other than the year they won the cup, they haven't made it out of the second round. And some of that is just kind of some bad luck with. I mean, I think Dallas and Colorado were probably two of the three best teams in the west last year by the time the playoffs rolled around and, and they happened to run into each other. And the AVS are going to be in that predicament again. They're going to have to play good teams if they want to get to where they want to go. But I still think this is a really, really good hockey team and one that I wouldn't be surprised at all if they're one of the last teams standing.
- [04:51]
Sean McIndoo
Let's just get to that. Last mentioned Nathan McKinnon, but after the loss, he says, he points out that Dallas was missing some of their best players. And then he says, quote, yeah, I don't know, I don't know what we're going to do several months later, the answer to what they were going to do, at least as far as the off season, was not a ton. Was that the right move to more or less stay the course? Like, is this a case of don't panic? Or was, was that a case of a franchise player going like, hey guys, let's, let's, let's make some changes?
- [05:28]
Peter Ball
I mean, look, I think that Nathan McKinnon, when he speaks after a loss, you need to listen. But that also is he's an emotional person and an emotional guy. I, I don't think that you have to take that as like a gospel, like, we need massive changes just because he said after they blew a series, I don't know what we're going to do. I'm sure in that moment, what if.
- [05:49]
Sean McIndoo
I'm a sports writer and I want to do that? Just horror drama.
- [05:54]
Peter Ball
Yeah, I'm just, I, I, I see what you're saying. I liked their off season, which I know sounds weird because they did very little, but I actually think that was the right call with how much it was a seller's market on the trade market and it was a lot of teams had cap space, so a lot of the guys were getting huge contracts that the ABs weren't going to be able to match. So right now they're looking at a team that I think is still really good. They lose Charlie Coyle, but a lot of the rest of the team is back and I think that they've got kind of some cap flexibility going forward, especially if they can accrue space throughout the year to where you're looking at enough cap space to make a big addition at the deadline. What can they trade at the deadline? I don't know. They've kind of like the cupboard is, is looking a little thin right now in terms of their prospects and draft picks, but I think they're in position to where they can can add at the deadline. And I think that the, the core of the team is still really good. I mean, they have their goaltending figured out for better or worse. Like they're rolling with Blackwood. That's their guy. Now. There's no more uncertainty there. They've got Cal McCarthy and Devontaves on the decor and a few other defensemen who I think are good players. And then they have a top six that I would argue is still one of the best in the league. Even without Miko Rant in. There's big questions that they face. The Marty Naches situation is really interesting. What they're going to do with extending him, how much they're willing to, to pay him in free agency. But I think that when you look at what they was available for them in free agency, I don't think it was a bad play to get off of some money they got off the Miles Wood deal and the Charlie Coyle deal. I think Coyle is going to probably be someone who they miss, but Wood wasn't doing very much for them. They cleared some space, they can accrue, they can sit tight until the deadline, trust that they're going to have a good enough regular season team to be in playoff position and then go all in again at the deadline.
- [07:42]
Jesse Granger
Yeah, that kind of goes along with what I wanted to ask you of. Like, it just seemed like last year there was a lot of change. Like I can't remember a contending team changing as much as the AVs did last year. Obviously swapping Ranton for, for Natures and Drury. They completely redid their goaltending. How much, like we're looking at, how can this team improve? They have to improve to catch up with Dallas and maybe even Winnipeg. How much of that can come from just having some, some stabilization and letting these new players get like, Natures? We barely saw him and like, he wasn't great in the playoffs. He had one goal in the seven games. Like, how much do you think this team can get better just by maybe not making those moves and allowing all these new pieces to kind of have a year together?
- [08:25]
Peter Ball
I think stability is really good. I think if, if Gabe Landiscott can play a whole year for them, even if he's, I mean, look, I would be really careful with him and listen to every little, like every time he's feeling a little sore or whatever, give him a day off. Like, I would make sure he's ready to go for the playoffs. But I think just having his presence around the team is going to help a lot this year. And I think that it's easy to look at the Avalanche as a team that lost in the first round last year, which is true, but they also were a team that was a lot better than a first round out team. Like, that was a really, really good team that ran into another really, really good team, should have beaten them, blew it, which they have to live with. But this isn't like, I don't know, I look at their team as, as different from say, the, I don't know, the Montreal Canadiens who lost in the first round to Washington or whatever. Like there's kind of the context has to be taken into consideration. Which isn't like I'm not covering for them. They blew the series for sure. I'm just saying I don't think that this is as dire as maybe the outside perception, at least for the coming year. Beyond it, as some of the contracts get bigger and bigger is maybe a little more interesting.
- [09:34]
Mark Lazarus
But this is their situation. This. They're in a division where they are. They're the third best team in this division. They finished in third place. And the way this stupid playoff system we have in the NHL is set up, they're probably going to be third place again this year. So I mean this is their reality. I'll tell you where, Mike. My concern for this team is, is the same concern we've had for almost four years now. They have been trying to find Nazem Kadri since they let Nazem Kadri leave that second line center. And they brought in Brock Nelson last year at the trade deadline. That was their big move. We all thought it was genius. Chris McFarlane put him in the hall of Fame and it didn't really work. He was kind of an awkward fit. He wasn't productive in the playoffs at all. And then they turned around and they signed him for three more years at 7.5 million. I don't know if like you talk about that top six and it can be really good, especially like you said, if they manage Landiscog well. But Brock Nelson, I have concerns about his fit in that kind of speed up tempo system they've got.
- [10:25]
Peter Ball
I hear you, but look at the numbers. When it was Landiscog, Nelson and Nichkin on the ice in that Dallas series. They were money like they were. I know that maybe the eye test obviously is important and you've got to value that, but that line was really effective and I think could continue to be really effective. They're probably not going to find another Nazem Kadri. Especially the Nazem Kadri in 2022 where he had. He was more than a point per game player and was at one point I think he was like leading the league in scoring after two months or whatever. They're not going to get that level of second line center again. But I think Brock Nelson can be a 23 goal, 50 point guy for them and that's a fine second line center. They're never going to have as good of a roster as they did the year they won the Cup. Like that's just the reality of a cap league. They lost a lot of talent from that team. That was a weird kind of mix of they had really good young guys on cheap contracts. They had Nico and Nate before they were on big contracts. They had Kale at a good number. It's just the reality is they're never going to be that team again, but they can still be really good. And I think some of it is going to come down to just, they've got to play better and maybe get a bit better of puck luck in the, in the series. Because you're right, they are going to have to play Dallas again if they, if both of those teams are going to be as good as we think they are and they're going to have to like, they're just going to have to do it. Like, I think the roster is good enough. Both rosters are good enough. It's going to be a coin flip series and we're going to see if the AVs can kind of finally get over the hump.
- [11:51]
Sean McIndoo
Yeah. And could I just say, like, I think when you're talking about teams we're winning around, or maybe two is the goal, the playoff format discussion is absolutely valid. You know, if you're talking about the LA Kings running into the Oilers every year and the Kings just want to win a round, sure. The AVS want to win a cup, you gotta go through Dallas. It's, it's not like the Flames are gonna knock off Dallas for you and then come lay down in four games for you. Like, you're either gotta play these really good teams and beat them yourself, or you gotta play teams that have upset them, which means they can upset you too. My, my question, I guess is we keep talking about Dallas, Colorado, second, third place. Is there. Do you think this is a team that maybe approaches this season saying, guys, we got to get that one seed so that we can get off to a good start rather than, you know, complain that the format is going to make us play a good team. Let's, let's actually push in the regular season or do they do what most of the contenders do these days, which is kind of. It's an 82 game run up, but we don't go crazy over it. We've seen what the pan. You know, the Panthers are totally fine to have 98 points and then hit the playoffs and then the real season starts. How do you balance that if you're the Avalanche and you know what that first round matchup might look like if you don't get the one seed?
- [13:14]
Peter Ball
It's a good question. I mean, I think that One thing is I believe they're going to be a better regular season team this year than they were last year, in part just because of the goaltending like Alexander, Georgie have really struggled in the first chunk of the season for them. They completely turned over their goalie situation. The team wasn't playing like it had much faith in front of their goalie. And then suddenly it shifted and they had one of the better records in the league the latter part of the year. So I think that there. You're right, that there's a fine line of. I mentioned this with Landiscog. Like, their priority with Landiscog should be to play him in the regular season as much as possible without jeopardizing his playoffs at all. Like, you have to have him ready for the playoffs. They don't need to be pushing him and trying to get the one seed or whatever. But there's also the reality that you're going to have to play Dallas in the first round or the second round, unless the standings are way different than what we envision. They played Dallas in the second round two years ago. They played Dallas in the first round this year. And it's. They just are going to have to, like, eventually you're going to have to exercise the demons or you're going to be a 11 cup team. As. As last said at the beginning.
- [14:19]
Jesse Granger
All right, Peter, it sounds like you kind of answered it a little bit there, but we're asking every writer, we got to get you on the record here. You think the Avalanche at the end of the season, are they finishing higher or lower in the standings than they did last year? Third place in the Central?
- [14:31]
Peter Ball
I think they'll finish higher. I think I could see Dallas and Colorado being one and two in some order in the division. Winnipeg, I think, is really good, but if you remember last year, Winnipeg got off to that crazy start. I don't know if maybe we're going to have quite as. I don't know if they're going to be starting with quite as much of a cushion as they did last year. Maybe they'll be amazing out of the gates again, but I would guess that the ABs in Dallas are 1, 2 in some order, and the ABs finish with more points than they did last year, considering I think that was their lowest point total since the shortened seasons of the COVID years.
- [15:06]
Mark Lazarus
All right, question two is who is the most important player on the team? We all know the answer to that one. So let's say outside of Nathan McKinnon, who might be one of the two or three most important players in the league. Who is the most important person on the Avalanche this season?
- [15:17]
Peter Ball
Yeah, I mean, I think Gabe Landiscog kind of has to be the answer. This is a person who, when he plays, is so effective, so important to winning, does so many of the little things you write you. You need to win. And that's not even to mention all the leadership stuff, which all the players talk about how important that is. And he's someone that they sorely missed for the last three seasons. So what are you getting from him this year? Is he going to be able to. To play consistently in the regular season? Is he going to be healthy by the time the playoffs roll around? Because they really, really, really need that guy. And it seems like it's all systems go, which is really encouraging for both him, the team, and the league, because the league's better when Gabe Landiscog's in it. He's a fun player to watch. He's a good face, good ambassador for the league, and vital for the team's success. Other guys that come to mind are Marty Naches, Valona Chushkin. You need kind of good years from those supporting players. And then Brent Burns is a really interesting signing on the back end of kind of. What does he have left in the tank? Seems like if he's able to get any shots through, that could be great for the Avalanche with guys like Nichkin and Landiscog in front of the net.
- [16:26]
Sean McIndoo
All right, in question number three, give us your dramatic title for this upcoming season.
- [16:32]
Peter Ball
Yeah, I. I thought it was a song. Is it supposed to be a song title?
- [16:37]
Sean McIndoo
So in the style of song title mov titles, Something like this.
- [16:41]
Mark Lazarus
This is a guy who wrote a. Who has an athletic sponsored book that I think is called Carry Me Home, which is a song title from the 2022 cup run.
- [16:48]
Peter Ball
Well, I think it's a song lyric. Lazy. Gotta get that right. No, I'll. I'll go with the song title, All My Exes Live in Texas, which is in an ode to Matthew Shane and an ode to Miko Rantin. But I think that it's clear that the Avalanche, barring any upsets in the playoffs to get where they want to go, are going to have to go through Dallas, and that's going to be a incredible series yet again. I would. I would bet good money. I don't bet on hockey, to be clear, but I would bet good money that that series would go six or seven games if they play again. And I feel like we're. We're destined for a rematch.
- [17:31]
Mark Lazarus
I genuinely think that we'll be talking about that Miko rant in trade for the rest of his and McKinnon's career. What might have been that they stayed together in Colorado. It's always fascinating. Peter, thanks for your time. Okay, guys, so my daughter's birthday is this weekend, and we went to the grocery store to look at cakes. And the thing on the front page of the catalog for cakes here in Indiana was a Utah Hockey club cake. I don't know what that means. It was the strangest thing I've ever seen. But we're ready to talk about the Utah Mammoth. Not to be confused with the Utah Mammoths, which would make a lot more sense, but this is the world we live in. They're a young team on the rise. So who's better to talk about them then? Scott Wheeler. Scott, how are you?
- [18:08]
Scott Wheeler
I'm doing well. And I didn't know. I don't think I've ever heard you say that. You don't like team names without the S at the end. Laz, you might need to say that a few more times for us.
- [18:17]
Mark Lazarus
When. When. When Mike Russo was at his previous stop and they did singular names all the time. Like, I would text him, I would take some screenshots and just yell at him. That's how much I hate it.
- [18:25]
Jesse Granger
I think it's fine. I think Mammoth sounds good. Does it not?
- [18:29]
Mark Lazarus
No, it sounds horrible. It's a terrible name.
- [18:30]
Sean McIndoo
I would have gone plural on that one. I can handle it. When it's something. It's a little bit of a vague concept or, you know, but there was more than one mammoth back in the day.
- [18:40]
Mark Lazarus
I googled it. The plural of mammoth is mammoths. So I just want to say that.
- [18:45]
Jesse Granger
Anyway, I'm as far on the opposite side of this as I could be. Kraken is like, one of the best team names in. I don't know. I like the singular names.
- [18:51]
Mark Lazarus
No, you're just terrible. Your entire generation is awful, and I hate you all. So, Scott, let's talk about Mammoth. Now, this is a team dating back to their last year in Arizona. I've been very high on this organization. A thing felt like they were on the verge of something. I thought they were a playoff team two years ago. Thought they could have been a playoff team last year. And they're close.
- [19:09]
Scott Wheeler
They were close.
- [19:10]
Mark Lazarus
What is the expectation here in Utah, their first year having an actual name?
- [19:15]
Scott Wheeler
I think the expectation is to take another step. They finished with 89 points or whatever it was last year. I think their goal differential was a dash 10 goal differential. So right around a league average team. But I think they expect to take a step, I know in sort of going all the way back to the draft combine in Buffalo. They were the team that everybody at the combine was talking about. In terms of the Mammoth are calling everybody about everything and their management group over the last 12 months sounds like it's been the most active now. They haven't necessarily been able to execute on that. JJ Paterka I guess is a pretty significant addition, but they haven't swung that sort of for Huber Doe sort of franchise altering, franchise momentum changing move yet. It seems like they're still eager to try to make a move like that happen and that they're going to be active this season ahead of the deadline and maybe early in the season. But with where they're at right now with the additions of Paterka, Paterka in particular is really the only one that moves the needle in terms of their free agency slash offseason. I know they added Brandon Tanv and others.
- [20:27]
Jesse Granger
Nate Schmidt.
- [20:28]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, Tanv. Not needle movers for me nowadays. Certainly Tan have a bottom six piece for them and a good bottom six piece for them. But I think you add Paterka to what they've got building with Schmaltz and Genther and Cooley and Keller in that top six and suddenly that top six is pretty compelling. They've obviously committed to Velkma in terms of the net and they, they're, they have to take a step here. They were, whatever it was, 89 points, which I think was seven points out of the playoffs last year. You'd like them to be in that mid-90s range, I think, I don't think anybody realistically expects them to get to the surefire 100 point team, potential non wild card, sort of top of the central team, especially in the Central division, which has five or six teams that want to be in the playoffs. I think you can basically discount Nashville and Chicago and everybody else wants to be in the mix. So I think Utah is one of those teams now. They're not satisfied by picking sort of around 10th overall or 5th overall or that kind of a thing anymore. They need to, they need to get back into the, get back into the mix here.
- [21:39]
Sean McIndoo
So I was, I was going to make a sarcastic comment about oh wow, what a surprise. You're telling me that there's a team out there that talked a big game about making aggressive moves and then didn't back it up. But with Utah, I assumed that they would because of just the context here. They're in a new market. Yeah, everyone's happy that the NHL is coming. It's your shiny new toy for now. But as we've seen in Vegas versus Seattle, you know, at some point you got to make that first impression turn into something. So I've been waiting for two years for this team that now had an owner with actual money and, you know, all of this stuff to take that swing and do something kind of sexy. And we got J.J. paterka. So I guess my question is, is, is there enough here, especially as far as as the young guys coming up to to make up for that and to make people like me say, oh wow, this team was so smart to hold on to their young guys or is this. Are they just coasting along to another so so season and eventually next thing you know, you're the Kraken.
- [22:52]
Scott Wheeler
Well, the young guys coming are legit. Like Caleb De Noyer, who they took when they won. They got lucky enough to win those second lottery and moved up to fourth overall. Caleb Dnoyer is a legit like future top six center in the league. Like the belief is that Logan Cooley and Caleb Dinway are going to be their top two line centers. Teacher Ginla obviously missed last season with a second major injury in his young career, but there's still a lot of belief out there that teacher Ginla is going to be a big part of this top six moving forward. Dimitri Tree Simishev on the back end. Daniel Boot. They're two. Two highly touted Russians, two former top 10 picks out of Russia who are now coming over and are going to play in the AHL to start this year, potentially even play some NHL games this year are legit. They weren't picked top 10 by accident. Right? So you've got four or five kids coming. You've got Michael Harabo, who's one of the top goalie prospects in the sport coming. There is a lot coming. But if we're talking here and now for this season, which is what this conversation is really supposed to be about there, they have to count on Logan Cooley and Dylan Genther taking another step. I think that's what makes or breaks them this season. I am a huge believer in Logan Cooley. I think Logan's going to have a monster year this year and establish himself as one of the better centers in the league this year. I think we're going to see him go from 60 points to 80 points this year. Like I really do believe that Cooley is ready for that. Genther, I'm less sure whether he has that. That next level like Genther has been hovering around 30 goals, 60 points. He's a very, very good winger. He's now paid like a very, very good winger. I would expect that he'll continue to score 30 goals and 60 points kind of range moving forward here. But I don't know whether Genter has that sort of. Whether he gets to where Clayton Keller is, whether. Whether he gets to where I think Logan Cooley's going. And so as a result it. Logan has. Cooley has to be the driver. And it kind of reminds me of where Ottawa was a couple of years ago where Tim Stutzel was a very good player, Brady Tkachuk was a very good player. But even with them as very good players, they weren't quite there in terms of sneaking into a wild card. And then how do they get there? Well, Tim Stutzla and Brady tkachuk go from 70 points to 90 points, right? To 80 to 90 points. And that's the difference between elevating their ceiling as a bubble playoff team to a team that actually makes it and gets in as a wild card team. So that's where I feel this team is at. Like Sergachev is Thomas Shabbat. Right. Like I think there are a lot of parallels between, between Ottawa and Utah and where they're at as an organization. But it. Cooley has to become Stutzler now. Like Cooley has to take the step that Stutzer took in Ottawa, I think, and really sort of dominate and be a stud and play 22, 23 minutes a night and be the matchup guy and be first line center. And I do think Logan Cooley is good enough to be that.
- [25:46]
Sean McIndoo
And I'll just point out though, Ottawa didn't make the playoffs until they made for them a pretty big aggressive trade to go out and get a goalie, which Utah doesn't need. But Ottawa did have to take the big swing and all that got them was a first round exit at the hand of a team that never even wins in the first round. So there's. There are some steps to go here.
- [26:07]
Scott Wheeler
With this team for sure.
- [26:09]
Jesse Granger
Scott, what's your hesitation on Gunther? Because I see the way I look at him is I feel like we're not giving him enough credit. Like he scored whatever I think 18 goals as a 20 year old, then last year as a 21 year old, he scores 27 and that's with missing a bunch of Time with injuries. He scored 27 goals. To me, I view him as like a player on the right. Like I expect him to take another step this year. Do you think he's already hit his ceiling?
- [26:31]
Scott Wheeler
He's just never really been a top offensive producer in his age group at any level. Like, he was always a very good player. He was on the Canadian world junior team, he was a top player in the whl. He was a productive player early on once he turned pro, but he was never that. So like, like Cooley has been that right? Cooley has been the top dog in his age cohort for as long as he's been on the radar in terms of, as a, as a prospect. Gunther has never been that, like he'd never sort of produced at that high, high level. And I just wonder whether that's in there. Like I wonder whether he's more than a 30 goal, 65 point guy. Like, I just don't know whether he has that, that next level. He's good skater, he's got good size, he's got a very, very dangerous release, but he doesn't pull you out of like, I don't, I don't think his skill wows you. I don't think he takes over games. And I've always felt like he's more of a complimentary sort of third best player on a team, fourth best player on a team kind of thing than a true sort of future top dog.
- [27:36]
Mark Lazarus
But the Mammoth, you know, I feel like if they were in the Pacific Division, they're making the playoffs this year as, as it was, they were a six place team with 89 points in the Central last year, made a late push. Do you see this team finishing higher or lower in the standings this year?
- [27:51]
Scott Wheeler
I would expect that they'll finish if it's just between higher and lower. I think my default would actually be that they finish six out of the eight again and that they end up exact kind of exactly where they were. But what's more likely that they fall behind a Nashville Predators or that they push a St. Louis Blues or a Minnesota Wild, and I think it's that they push the St. Louis Blues or the Minnesota Wild and that that group of two that was vying for a wild card spot or two wild card spots as it played out last year becomes a group of three. Like I could see Utah getting to that 95 point range that Minnesota and St. Louis lived in last year and being right there and it coming down to the end of the season between Minnesota, St. Louis and Utah like If Cooley takes the step I think he's going to take, then I think they're probably. I'm not sure whether they're quite there with Minnesota. If Caprazov's fully healthy this year, that might be a tough task for them to sort of chase Minnesota, especially with Gustafson and the way that he bounced back last year. But I'm not convinced that the St. Louis Blues are definitively a better team than the Utah Mammoth.
- [28:52]
Jesse Granger
Who's the most important player on the team?
- [28:55]
Scott Wheeler
Logan Cooley. No question. I think where they go is where he can take them. You're hoping that Caleb De Noyer and Tjginla and the two Russian, Simyshev and Bout eventually become really, really big pieces of the puzzle for you, and that that elevates your ceiling. But without Cooley becoming one of the premier players in the league, I don't think that elevates you beyond wildcard and into the stratosphere that the Winnipeg jets and the Dallas Stars and the Colorado Avalanche have lived in in the Central Division.
- [29:21]
Sean McIndoo
And my favorite question, what is your title for this upcoming season? And you better come up with one, because last year we would have let you off the hook because they didn't have a name, but they got a name now.
- [29:34]
Scott Wheeler
I put a lot of thought into this, and I'm going to go with Live and Let Die, a Wings track from the title soundtrack from the James Bond movie of the same name. We are letting the Utah Hockey Club and the Arizona Coyotes die, and the Utah Mammoth are ready to live. So that's. That's what I'm going with.
- [29:54]
Jesse Granger
I love picking an extinct animal to. To live.
- [30:01]
Sean McIndoo
Also, I would have called it a Guns n Roses song, but that's. That's fine. You can. We'll let you go.
- [30:06]
Scott Wheeler
Wasn't it the Wings?
- [30:07]
Mark Lazarus
The wings. It's Paul McCartney. Yes. Yes.
- [30:10]
Matt Larkin
Yeah.
- [30:10]
Mark Lazarus
Freaking Gen Z.
- [30:11]
Scott Wheeler
He's trying.
- [30:12]
Sean McIndoo
Mark, settle down.
- [30:13]
Jesse Granger
Anyone?
- [30:14]
Mark Lazarus
Anyone out? I actually don't even like Paul Mc Cardi that much anyway. If you ever get out to Salt Lake, go to Red Iguana for lunch. It's fantastic.
- [30:20]
Jesse Granger
Oh, it is.
- [30:21]
Mark Lazarus
I've been there, Scott. Thanks for dropping the knowledge. And now we move on to my neck of the woods. Chicago and the Chicago Blackhawks. The Blackhawks have not ended a season in a playoff picture since 2017. We have to say that because of the expanded Covid playoff that nobody counts. Will this year be any different? No, it will not. But to talk Hawks, we've got the kind of the godfather of athletic Hockey writers employee number two at the whole company, the inventor of what I'm hearing, it's Scott Power. Scott, how you doing?
- [30:48]
Scott Power
Good, thanks. Thanks for having me.
- [30:50]
Sean McIndoo
All right, let me kick this off. There's $20 million in cap space. You could probably win a bunch of bar bets by asking people who the Blackhawks most highest paid player is because it's Shea Weber. Nobody else is over 5.5. I understand that the Blackhawks are not one player away from being in the playoffs, but at some point don't you have to go out and get some guys or is the plan here really going to be just give all the kids a chance to develop and see where that takes us?
- [31:25]
Scott Power
Yeah, that's, that's pretty much the plan. I think at some point they, they were considering going out and getting someone but like the reality is they also weren't sure if they could get anyone. So that there's sort of that twofold and the year before they went out and they want to try again, get some players and with Bertuzzi and Terra Vineland, which were upgrades but you know, not the sort of upgrade that people are expecting. And I think since then they've sort of reverted back to the idea that they're going to build almost completely within and the fact they've traded Seth Jones, like it's, it's probably a tear down that's been more complete than most anyone's ever done. You know, Spencer Knight was sort of unexpected. The acquisition I don't think they expected to get much for, for Seth Jones and Spencer Knight sort of jumped in the picture as their number one goalie and they just resigned them. So. But when you look at who's here and you know, and who's on the horizon and you know they just had a prospect, the rookie showcase and they had what, five first round picks there and you know, they had a number two pick, number three pick last year and he's, he's in Sweden, he'll be arriving next year and they have a Russian player, Roman Cancer, off, he'll be arriving next year and they're, you know, they're high on Nick Lardis who just entered the, you know, just signed and you know, coming off his 70 goal season and they probably have another top three pick coming. So when you start adding up the players and, and the amount of first round picks they have and there's guys like Merrick Vaneker and Vanacker and guys, yeah, first round picks that you don't remember at this point, they'll all be arriving within the next few years. That, yeah, I think the plan continues to be the kind of wait and see. And. And this would be. This would be a lot different if the Blackhawks financially weren't still doing okay. The Connor Bedard draft pick, save this whole thing for them. You know, like the fact they're still drawing people, they're still selling jerseys. No one's feeling it financially. You know, they could probably put a few more fans in the building, but for the most part, they're not being hit by this. So I think Danny Wirtz, the owner, has been. Yeah, he seems to have all the confidence the world. And Kyle Davidson still in the plan. And certainly Davidson and his staff have a lot of leeway here and, yeah, the sort of, yeah, I guess, job security that most GMs pray for. But they can be bad again, in which, you know, I think we all expect them to be a bottom, you know, bottom, probably bottom three team again. And it won't. It won't affect his job security because they're probably still two, three years away from this looking like anything like a playoff team.
- [33:45]
Jesse Granger
I'm going to go straight to the goalies. Unsurprisingly, you mentioned the Seth Jones trade. I can't remember a trade recently where both teams made out as well as that trade. Like, it was perfect. Like, Seth Jones was exactly what the Panthers needed and he gave them everything they could have wanted in the playoffs. And now this rebuilding team finally had, like, the Blackhawks had two really good young goalies in Soderblom and Camasso. But to get that franchise goalie and, like, for everyone on the team to know, this is our guy, like, this is the guy we're going to win with eventually. How different does the rebuild feel like now that, like. And also, what are the expectations for him this year? Like, is.
- [34:20]
Mark Lazarus
Is.
- [34:20]
Jesse Granger
Are they going to let him learn? And if he goes through a bad stretch, there's not a panic. The same way that it would be with Bedard. Obviously, goalie is a little bit different, but they've got their guy now.
- [34:30]
Scott Power
Yeah, I think. I mean, the fact that they gave him the contract at this point, like, there was. There's a belief in there. I honestly thought they'd maybe wait until the year and see what, like, he had a good. He had some really good games last season and then there were some so, so ones. And in playing behind that defense there. There's nights like that for everyone. But I thought they were going to take the year and kind of decide on what to pay him. And the fact that he had such a high qualifying offer already that, you know, Florida had given him a pretty nice second deal there. So the fact that they've already committed, you know, the money they did and, and kind of said that, you know, this is our number one guy for the next, you know, next four or five years here, I think that was a huge statement and it's going to allow him to. Yeah, because I think, you know, as young as the Blackhawks defense is going to be there, there are going to be some challenging nights and things that he just can't do. I think for him, it's, it's the confidence, knowing that he has somewhere set. And, you know, I think that he got pretty comfortable pretty quickly in Chicago last season and it was. Yeah, he seemed to. He really takes to the team and the team really took to him too. So I think that was a huge point. And, you know, I think Arvid sort of bloom, you know, certainly there's, there's a little bit more maybe to give there and he looked better than the year before where he thought maybe he was working his way out of the NHL and you got some guys behind him. But I think that, yeah, I think the Blackhawks have declared, you know, kind of declared that this is, this is Spencer Knight's team and, you know, they're going to give him this sort of starts and those type of opportunities. So I think that was huge to do it before the season because it takes a lot of, a lot of kind of questioning out of it for the year.
- [35:54]
Mark Lazarus
Scott, when, when Gavin McKenna gets here to Chicago, who gets bumped to the wing? Will it be Bedard or will it be Nazar?
- [36:02]
Scott Power
Oh, man, I, I imagine that's what we'll be writing about from January on this year. It's going to be another long draft, guys.
- [36:09]
Sean McIndoo
I got bad news though. Pittsburgh might be bad. So this is.
- [36:12]
Mark Lazarus
They're going to get the Frozen.
- [36:14]
Sean McIndoo
Oh, man, it's going to be. Gary Bettman's got to like pick one of which of his favorite kids he loves most. This is going to be terrible on him.
- [36:21]
Mark Lazarus
It is a fair question though, like, who's. The Blackhawks have had 11 first round picks in the last four years and a whole lot of them have been centers. You know, you've got Bedard and Nazar as your one, two punch. Now. That seems to be like the core of your lineup. But you know, Boyver and Vanacker and Oliver Moore is a center. Lucas Reichel is even a center. Naturally, you know, who do you See, moving to the wing and is nazar entrenched at 2C or do you think they're still going to play with him a little bit?
- [36:46]
Scott Power
Yeah, I mean, when I talked to Jeff Blash a few weeks ago, I had mentioned asked if he thought Nazar and Bedard were centers and he said yes. But he also said that they really like Anton Frondell who they drafted this past year at number three. So I think the fact that, yeah, the fact that Blash already brought that up like in Frontel is going to be a top six player and you know, he's expected to be at least and we'll see what, you know, he's going to play the one year in Sweden, probably come over here. But I would think in the future they'd have to kind of consider moving these guys around a bit and certainly some of these guys are going to have to move to the wing and. And maybe we'll start seeing that a little bit this year. Where Oliver Moore probably he looked pretty good. He played center during the prospect showcase. I mean it's only that but you know, he probably makes the team and you know, Ryan Green played center, he came in from BU last year and he was, you know, got some initial games and has a chance to make it and they still have guys like Jason Dickinson and you know, they just acquired Sam Lafferty for again and he's thought to be maybe like a fourth line type center. So yeah, I guess the big question is around Bedard and Nazar and as of now they. They seem like they're the centers but maybe some of it's more dictated by yeah. How they fare there this year and we'll see some of the, you know, Bedard's face offs improved last year, but how much. How much does he take a step and you know, I think defensively will play a part of it too. I mean, it's still weird because I mean Bedard and Nays are probably their two most talented offensive players and we saw them together a little bit but you know, pulling them apart still it's odd because it probably doesn't maximize what you can do with the top line and maybe, you know, Blash said he was open to that idea too, maybe at least combining them at times. So yeah, it'll be interesting. I mean this is the first time the Blackhawks have had a head coach who's had initial experience and. And head coaching experience. So maybe Blash will bring some. Some different thoughts into this as well. So I guess we'll have a Better sense of training camp. But I think that's the constant question is where, where did all these centers end up? And certainly when you look at Frontal and then potentially drafting another center come the next draft, another high end center, you know, where do they all fit into the picture?
- [38:46]
Sean McIndoo
So we've, we've said his name a bunch of times. Laz, you mentioned how this whole thing is kind of revolved around Connor Bedard and winning that lottery. He came into the league hyped as a generational prospect, not just a typical number one. Overall, we're two years in. He's been good. Sidney Crosby and Connor McDavid both had an MVP already by this point. Connor McDavid is not there now. He doesn't have the support around him. But I don't think any of us thought that, for example, two years into this we'd be talking about, do we even know what position this kid plays? What is the outlook now? What's the feeling in Chicago? Did we over hype? Is this just taking a little longer than we thought? Is this still a franchise player to build around or is he something less than that?
- [39:38]
Scott Power
I think he's still a franchise player. Certainly. I think he'd be the first to say that he hasn't lived up to expectations. I mean, the fact that he hasn't had a hat trick yet after two years and you look at what he did in junior, like it seemed like such a regular occurrence. I mean, the only time he scored two goals last year was I think the last regular season of the game, of the year. So I think he's shown a little bit being a little bit more of a playmaker in the NHL than maybe you expected. But certainly the goal scoring and what that was, what he was known for, hasn't been present. You know, part of it's, you know, the Blackhawks haven't done him a ton of favors who he's played with, but it's hard to put that completely on them, change the coaches. You know, there's different factors that play into it, but most of these guys who drafted into bad teams, they go through this. So I, I don't sense the Blackhawks and I think last can probably confirm this. I don't think the Blackhawks are that concerned about where Bedard's at. They think this, you know, still the sky's the limit and as they bring in more of these, these first round picks that they think he'll take off further. And the fact that he's still really young for his, his draft year and you know, just. Just turned 20 years old. So, I mean, we're still talking about one of the youngest players on the NHL, so still plenty of time. And, you know, he's been near, you know, he's a little bit under point a game for the first two seasons now, but. Yeah, but not exactly. Also, Shama, not what you. What you expected when you drafted him. So. Yeah, I don't, I don't get. The Blackhawks are concerned, but certainly we're hoping they're. They're hoping that he takes another step this year. And it looks something more like 30 goals plus and, you know, the type of production you. You would imagine from the start. So it'll be an interesting season because, I mean, he's.
- [41:12]
Matt Larkin
He.
- [41:12]
Scott Power
He went about this offseason in such a different way where he didn't play at the Worlds, and, you know, he chose to really prioritize his development and went about it in a different way. And his speed, you know, his speed had decreased last season, so he, he went about it this, this whole offseason in a way to really sort of address those issues. So, you know, we'll get a better sense here in the preseason in those early games whether those, those changes were made. But I know for him, too, that there was a little bit of concern and, and, and some focus on areas that maybe that he's learned that he needs to adjust to at the NHL level.
- [41:42]
Mark Lazarus
I'm not as concerned about Bedard as a lot of people seem to be. I mean, Nathan McKinnon didn't pop until his fifth year. I think Jack Hughes was his fourth. Jack Eichel was his fourth or fifth year. Not everybody could be Sidney Crosby and Connor McDavid, and if he's not Sidney Crosby or Connor McDavid, that's not the end of the world. Right. If you're Nathan McKinnon or you're Jack Eichel or you're Jack Hughes, that's probably a more realistic spot for him. He was the third youngest player in the league last year in his second season, and he's playing with, you know, castoffs and, you know, fourth liners for a lot of the season. So to have 130 points in two seasons in that situation on a team that's actively not trying to win, I don't have any concerns with Bedard here.
- [42:21]
Sean McIndoo
And I mean, they went and got so many good players in the off season that, that. Oh, yeah, sorry about that.
- [42:28]
Mark Lazarus
Yeah, no, it's. It's going to take a while. And I think Bedard understands that, too. He said last year, it's like, if you're the number one overall pick, you're not going to a team that's loaded. Like, you're not going to a great team. And he understands that. Like, you know, bad teams get the number one pick for the most part. So this is, this is just the reality of it. Scott, we've been asking everybody three questions. The Hawks were 31st in the league last year with 61 points. The bar is so low, it's underground. But will they finish higher or lower than that this season?
- [42:55]
Scott Power
I think it's between them and San Jose for that last spot. Well, you know, I'm sure there'll be some surprise teams that are in that mix, but on, on paper, and just how young the Blackhawks are and the fact they didn't go out and do much other than, you know, Burkovsky, they, they. There isn't much of an upgrade there. And they're obviously banking on Donato being a similar player. And yeah, unless the young players take some massive step, I think they're in that mix for the bottom again. So I think it's between them and San Jose for the. Yeah, for the number one pick or at least the last place.
- [43:26]
Jesse Granger
The other question we're asking everybody is who's the most important player? Probably Bedard. We've talked about him for most of this segment. So is there another player that you would put as 1B for most important player for the Blackhawks this season?
- [43:38]
Scott Power
Yeah, I think it's Spencer Knight. I think he has something to prove still. I think there, there were times last year where he looked like legitimate number one and, you know, he came in and other times there were, you know, some ups and downs and maybe some of that's the defense and the team he's playing for. But I think that consistency in playing at a higher level and the fact they have committed to him already, like they plan on him being the number one, number one goalie. So I think the more that he can show that this season, probably more reassuring for the Blackhawks fan base that he's, he's the guy for the years to come when they are expected to be better.
- [44:09]
Sean McIndoo
And what's our title for this upcoming Blackhawk season?
- [44:14]
Scott Power
How about the rebuild volume four? I don't know what year Orion's 4.
- [44:21]
Sean McIndoo
7.
- [44:22]
Scott Power
7. It depends on including Stan Bowman years and probably Rebuild Volume seven. Kyle Davidson, Volume eight. Yeah, so we're going to continue the volume.
- [44:33]
Mark Lazarus
Scott and I are just in the hamster wheel of doom here. In Chicago going on and on forever. We'll maybe in four or five years we'll get to cover some meaningful hockey again. Scott, appreciate the time and the knowledge and I'll talk to you in about an hour when we record our own podcast.
- [44:46]
Scott Power
Thanks, guys.
- [44:47]
Mark Lazarus
We'll take a break. We'll be right back. Today's episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. World Mental Health Day is coming up October 10th, and this year, BetterHelp is shining the spotlight on therapists, people who truly make the world a better place. BetterHelp therapists have helped over 5 million people worldwide on their mental health journeys. That's millions of stories, millions of journeys, and behind everyone is a therapist who showed up, listened, and helped someone take a step forward. Moments in therapy, like the right question, a safe space to cry, or a small win can change lives. This World mental health day, BetterHelp is honoring those connections and the therapists who make them possible, while showing how easy it is to get guidance from a licensed therapist online with BetterHelp. If something is keeping you up at night, talking to someone can help.
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- [46:20]
Murat Atesh
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Scott Wheeler
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Mark Lazarus
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Jesse Granger
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Mark Lazarus
Exchange for a place to stay on their travels. So while you're off exploring, your pets get to stay safe and happy at home, right where they belong. Find a loving in home pet sitter today@trustedhousesitters.com all right, we're back and we're heading up to the Great White north where the President's trophy winners. I think people forget that the Winnipeg jets were the best team in hockey last year with 116 points before a second round loss to Dallas. And to discuss the Quiet Giant in the north, we have truly one of my favorite writers, the outstanding and thoughtful Murat Attesh. Now, Marat, you're talking to me here. I covered the guy for over a decade. So the thing I'm most interested in, how does Jonathan Taves look and what are we in for this year?
- [48:00]
Murat Atesh
Yeah, I mean Jonathan Taves homecoming, biggest story in Winnipeg for sure. One of the biggest stories in the NHL after two years away, how's he going to look? Can he skate? What's going on the play here? And I've been able to see him at informal skates so far. Camp on the ice Thursday. He can move. He looks like he has hands. He looks like he can keep up. And one thing that I've been telling people, including you when we've chatted, is the fact that he, okay, doesn't look like a superstar.
- [48:33]
Matt Larkin
That's not a problem.
- [48:34]
Murat Atesh
The fact that he looks like he belongs, that he's one of the guys that he's not at this level beyond being able to keep up to the main group, I think that should offer hope that whatever Jonathan Davis can be at this stage, the comeback is real. He will be a viable NHL player this year.
- [48:51]
Mark Lazarus
That's the thing is at the end of his time in Chicago, he was and it wasn't. It wasn't because like he got lazy or anything because his body was just failing him from all the, you know, the chronic illnesses he has and long Covid, he was like 30 pounds overweight and you saw him on the ice and he was struggling like he still scored in his last game in Chicago. He still has the ability and the desire, but his body would not let him look or play like a professional athlete. He seems like he's in shape now. I guess the question is can he, can his body now handle the grind of an NHL season? Right? That's the next question to answer.
- [49:24]
Murat Atesh
Yeah, and I wonder if we're going to see any load management, any days off between games. It's a dense Schedule with the Olympics taking up some time in the middle of February, there's so Jonathan Toews showing up looking like an NHL player at camp. Okay, that's check one. There are so many checkboxes left. And Laz, you watch this with your own eyes. You can point to the he was overweight, he was struggling with his body. But you look at those numbers, you look at the, at the analytics, you look at his impact on scoring chances. His last two years in Chicago look like trouble and not a player to invest 2 million in contract plus 5 million bonuses in. But there's got to be hope somewhere underneath all that that base level 37 year old Jonathan Toews can help the Winnipeg Jets.
- [50:13]
Jesse Granger
Taves may have been the biggest storyline in Winnipeg of the off season, but the last time this team was on the ice there was one story that everyone in the world was talking about and it was Connor Hellebuck's playoff struggles for the upteenth time in a row. What I want to ask you is he's so good and he's been so good in the regular season, is it just status quo? Like do you for both he and the jets, like in terms of how he's going to play and how the jets are going to play in front of him. Do, do you get the sense that they feel they need to do something different in order to change that, like play different defensively in front of him? Or is it just let's just be the President's trophy winners again and let's see if we can actually get it done in the playoffs this year.
- [50:50]
Murat Atesh
Yeah, it's hard to want to reinvent the wheel when in back to back seasons you've won the William Jennings Trophy. Giving up the fewest goals in the, in the NHL's regular season and to roll a Harp trophy winning performance from Conor Hellebuk in addition to his third Vezina. It's hard to want to think that Conor Hellebuyck is broken and needs to completely reinvent the wheel. But Jess, you and I have talked about this, right? One of the things that he does better than everyone else is that computer in his brain. He reads the play, he assesses what's going on, he puts himself in positions to make saves. And he confessed to us last year and I've had a chance to talk to him this year as well, that he got off his game, he overcorrected during the playoffs when he was getting shelled by St. Louis, when that net front traffic was getting to him again and those pucks were going in well, then he made tweaks, then he moved off his game and it was clear to us. I mean, he's not going to say this, but he was rattled. It looks like he was rattled. And so for me, the question about Conor Hellebuk is, is there something about playoff hockey once that traffic changes his ability to predict everything, can you beat him with chaos in a way that you can't beat him with skill because he was phenomenal at Four Nations. But then he faces playoff demons again.
- [52:07]
Jesse Granger
Is it, is it, is there anything Winnipeg? Because to me, I look at the defensive group and it's going to be basically the same defensive group this year, right? They're not the biggest group. They've got a couple big guys, but they aren't the guys who play tons of minutes. Like, what's your level of optimism that this defense can clear the lanes for him in the playoffs better than they have in the past?
- [52:26]
Murat Atesh
I think that one aspect is a weakness to Winnipeg's game. They defend really well between the dots. Positioning is great, systems commitment is great. Even some of the guys like a Mark Scheifele, a Kyle Conner we've talked about, not really great. Two way players have made strides in that regard and you're seeing a lot of positive improvement. But when shifts hit the fan come playoff time, things get chaotic. Things change. Josh Morrissey and Dylan DeMelo is your top pair. You're not getting Dustin Bufflin esque muscle from that group, so that gets tough. Neil Peonk, same deal on the, on the second pair. Dylan Samberg can handle that a little bit more, but you're not looking at big bruisers. And then when you look at how Logan Stanley and Luke Shen got shelled against the St. Louis Blues, size and size alone isn't going to do it. So Winnipeg has a gap. And I got to say, depending on who they're matching up against in the playoffs and what type of physical game they can bring, there could be problems presented to the jets if and when they make it.
- [53:24]
Sean McIndoo
Okay, first of all, did you just say when the shifts hit the fan? Did you sneak that in there? That was nice. I like that a lot. Here, here's my, here's my halibut question. You, you pointed out correctly that he has won the Jennings trophy back to back. People don't know. That's, that's for being the goalie who gives up the fewest goals. You know who has not won a Jennings in either of those seasons? Anyone else on the Winnipeg jets, because there's a minimum games threshold. You have to play 25 games to get your name on the trophy. And Connor Hellebuk has not given either of his backups the 25 games to get their names on that trophy. It sounds insane to say, well, you know, what this underachieving team maybe needs is to play their very best and most important player less. But is that what the Winnipeg jets need to do? Especially in an Olympic year where presumably, you know, he's going to go and have all of that to deal with too? Is, is he just getting worn out by the time the playoffs comes around and he's playing games 65 and 70.
- [54:27]
Murat Atesh
And plus, I mean, I think everyone outside of Connor Hallebuck and his team, you know, Wade Flaherty, Winnipeg's phenomenal goaltending coach, would suggest that, yes, he's getting worn out by that time because it seems to happen like clockwork. It was against St. Louis this year. Had a couple rough games and a couple brilliant ones against Dallas this year as well. Go back a year against Colorado, go back a year against Vegas. Here's a guy who's perhaps the best at his position in the world who doesn't get it done or hasn't gotten it done. So the crazy thing, the wild thing, is you look at the NHL.com interview they had with Conor Hellebuyck, you look at our piece that Michael Russo put together with Conor Hellebuyck and you know who misses the days of 70 plus starts?
- [55:15]
Sean McIndoo
Connor Hellebuk.
- [55:16]
Murat Atesh
He is advocating not to be having starts removed. He wants more. It doesn't sound to me as a non goaltender, non professional hockey player, like a sensible way to lean into more starts. I think load management would make a ton of sense. And also I just got to confess, like, I don't have the chip in the jersey, I don't have the heart rate. I don't have all those things that they're using to make the decisions. From far away though, from my chair, it looks like absolutely measure those out. Give him a rest. And even if it's not showing up in his physical performance, the fact that getting shelled has changed his mental approach in back to back years, that's something you got to address if you're the Winnipeg Jets.
- [55:56]
Mark Lazarus
Conor Hellebuyck is the best goalie in the world statistically. He's got the trophies to prove it. But I mean, during the Stars jets series last year, I wrote that Jake Ottinger should be Team USA's number one goalie because he's just done better in Big games in the postseason. Does Hellebock feel any of that pressure, you think? Is he playing for his spot on Team usa?
- [56:17]
Murat Atesh
You know, I think he feels it a little bit. At the same, like last, I gotta be honest, I never agreed with that column. I never agreed with it.
- [56:25]
Mark Lazarus
Nobody ever agrees with my columns.
- [56:27]
Peter Ball
That's fine.
- [56:28]
Murat Atesh
And the reason is the style of that Four nations cup where things are so organized, where the amount of, like, net front violence actually, despite all the fighting, you know, actually went down. The system's play was more like the Conor Hellebutt computer would predict. I actually thought he was great at that tournament. I think he'll be great at the Olympics that they choose to make in the starter. But your question, does it sort of enter the back of his mind a little bit? Is that something that he's thinking about? I mean, he's a human being, right? He might talk to us like a robot on some days, but he's a person. And I can't help but think that that's going to be a huge deal for him this year.
- [57:03]
Peter Ball
All right.
- [57:03]
Mark Lazarus
We've been asking all the writers three questions, and this seems like a stupid question to ask the team that just won the President's Trophy last year, but do you see them finishing higher or lower in the standings? I guess for you it's, do they repeat as President's Trophy champions or not?
- [57:18]
Murat Atesh
Yeah, that's an easy one to take the under on. I don't think that you're going to get another 56 wins out of the Winnipeg jets, even if they're very good. And like, let's be real, go back three seasons, they've got the most wins in the NHL. It doesn't have to be just the President's Trophy situation. There's some overtime wins in that. Okay, you got to check your notes a little bit, but they're at the top. If you go three seasons back, it's a good team. It's not a President's Trophy team this year.
- [57:44]
Jesse Granger
We've talked a lot about Hellebuck. He's probably the most important player on this team. But outside of him, who's the most important player for the jets this season?
- [57:51]
Murat Atesh
Mark Seifele. I mean, everybody remembers the dramatic comeback to Game 6, scoring the goal that opens things for the Winnipeg jets on the day that he had left the team because his dad passed away. One of the most emotional stories of the playoffs. And then the hockey gods cursed him because he took the penalty that led to Thomas Harley's goal that eliminated the Winnipeg Jets. It was emotional. Laz, you were there. I was there. Post game. Adam Lowry choking back tears in the room. And that's partly because Scheifele is one of the emotional centers of the Winnipeg jets, partly because of the moment. But the realistic thing is the Winnipeg jets offense goes as he goes. They need players who can create offense and take over games. He can do it at even strength. He can do it on the power play. If he makes that happen, comes back from that tragedy with a tremendous season. Winnipeg's in good hands.
- [58:44]
Sean McIndoo
And finally, after your shifts. Pun. This is gonna be good. I know. What is the title that you've come up with for this coming jets season?
- [58:58]
Murat Atesh
Yeah, I wanted to steal it from a Winnipeg band. I couldn't because you got the weaker thens. Have a little trash talking about the Winnipeg jets and their songs. So I went with Break on through to the other side. The old door is referenced.
- [59:11]
Jesse Granger
Excellent.
- [59:12]
Murat Atesh
And this is a team with playoff demons. And that's why one first round win going like is does not make sense for the quality of team and playoff opportunities that they've had. They got through St. Louis in a miracle moment and then got beaten by Dallas. This team has more to give come playoff time. And if they break on through, it's going to be a happy time in Winnipeg.
- [59:32]
Mark Lazarus
He has studied the Winnipeg jets extremely hard. He's probably studied the most out of anyone in this world. He is. Muratash, thanks.
- [59:38]
Murat Atesh
Murat, thanks, Matt. Thanks so much.
- [59:40]
Mark Lazarus
All right, we're moving on to the Dallas Stars and, oh, wait, I'm our Dallas Stars guy. So, Jesse, why don't you take control here?
- [59:46]
Jesse Granger
Yeah.
- [59:46]
Mark Lazarus
Mark, you.
- [59:47]
Jesse Granger
You got to watch this team up close. Last year in the postseason, quite a bit and not a lot changed. But this is a team that pretty much everyone unanimously expects to be one of the best teams in the league. Is there any. When you look at this upcoming version of the Dallas Stars under, obviously a new head coach, like outside of that, or maybe that is the big change that you expect. But how different can this team be? And do you expect them to be right there in the mix amongst those. Those top teams in what's a brutal Central.
- [60:13]
Mark Lazarus
Well, it's so difficult, right, because they've been to the conference final three straight years. So what they're doing is working to a degree, and it's certainly working in the regular season. So you bring in Glenn Gullets in because, you know, Pete DeBoer couldn't get him over the hump. And then he called out his Goalie, and it was over there, and he had worn out his welcome. You know, maybe I don't think Gulatzin is going to come in and make the Dallas Stars power play just like the Oilers one that he ran in Edmonton, because he doesn't have those guys. But it's hard because, like, you don't. You want to change something, right? Like, it's not working. You're not winning championships every year. We say the Stars should be contending for a championship, and then they don't go to the Stanley Cup Final. But it'd be almost asinine to break this team up, to do something wildly different because they're in the hunt every single year. So Gulletsen and Jim Nill, to a large degree, find themselves in a weird spot with this team because it's a really, really good team that has nothing to show for it. Yet.
- [61:03]
Jesse Granger
It's the Pete DeBoer effect, right? Like, Pete DeBoer, this is what he does. He builds amazing teams that eventually lose in the playoffs before they can get to the cup final.
- [61:11]
Sean McIndoo
Yeah, but 15 teams lose in the playoffs every year. I mean, I get that there's a certain sense where you have to say, this is not enough and send that message. I just, wow. I mean, the way that that coaching change was handled, how late it came, I don't think any of us beforehand were saying, look, Pete DeBoer is a great coach, but, man, if a Glenn Gulletson shakes free, you got to go out and get him.
- [61:38]
Mark Lazarus
So I was there for the whole playoff run. I was in Dallas. I'm talking to the local guys, and I kept saying, like, if they flame out again in the second or the third round, is DeBoer at risk? And they're like, nah, no way.
- [61:50]
Matt Larkin
No way.
- [61:50]
Mark Lazarus
Like, we've seen it happen before, but no way. They're doing too well. But the way he handled that loss when he just took Jake Ottinger and just tossed him right under the wheels of the bus, that Jake Ottinger is more important to the Dallas Stars than Pete deport is flat out. And he wasn't going to win that fight. And I feel like he must have known something when he went out and said all that, because it was career suicide in some ways.
- [62:11]
Sean McIndoo
Now, let's. Let's get to that on Jay Gottinger. Like, are we at all concerned about him? Because, you know, Jesse's our goalie expert. He'd be the first to tell you that all goaltenders are fragile little babies. They can't talk to the media, they can't do anything if you spray them with snow. They have to go in the corner and cry for a while before they can play again. Is there any chance that the way things ended last year drags into this season? As far as Jake Ottinger, I don't think so.
- [62:40]
Mark Lazarus
Ottinger is. He does speak on game days. Like before a game seven, after a morning skate. He's just there chilling and talking. I told him to tell all his buddies that you can do this. It's eight hours before the game. You don't have to get your game face on just yet. He has supreme confidence in himself. He is a very chill guy, like way more laid back than your average goalie. He doesn't have any weird quirks. He's not hyper tense all the time. He's after a win or a loss. He's kind of the same guy. I don't think he'll be phased by this. I think, you know, a lot of us have questions now, especially going into an Olympic year. Is he the guy? Is Connor Hellebuk the guy? Ottinger outplayed Hellebuyck in the second round when the Stars beat the Jets. So there's a lot swirling around Ottinger. But he does seem uniquely handled, capable of handling that. And he's in the right market because Dallas is not the kind of market where you're going to face that much scrutiny.
- [63:30]
Jesse Granger
I totally agree in terms of just his personality, like he is a cool customer, like so different from most goalies. And I don't. I will say if Pete had come back then, that storyline could have kept going and like when he has a bad game, everyone's going to be asking Pete about it. And if Pete says, well, one negative thing about Jake now they're going to turn around and ask Jake. Like I, I do think that they have avoided that by, by getting rid of Pete. But at the same time, like back to that conversation, like I covered Pete DeBoer here in Vegas. It was very similar. The team went to the conference final every year, but they couldn't win. When I remember when they got rid of Pete DeBoer, I thought it was a mistake. But then they got Bruce Cassidy who is an elite level coach that like everyone in the, in hockey unanimously agrees is a very like an elite coach. I don't know if Dallas did that like I like again, it's like I thought they made a mistake by getting rid of Deborah in Vegas, but you replace him with Cassidy. So. Okay, this is not the same situation. And as. As many problems as Pete has had with his goalies, he is a great coach who gets the most out of his teams pretty much every year. I mean, the guy's been to. What is it? It's like seven of the last eight Western Conference finals with three different teams. Like, it doesn't matter what team you put them on, they're in the Western Conference final. He's a great coach. It's a lot like it's. These are big shoes to fill. I think for Gulletson, like, this is not a gimme that this team's just going to be as good as they were under Pete DeBoer. I, I have a little more concerns about this team despite the roster being so good.
- [64:57]
Sean McIndoo
Mark, what's going on with Jason Robertson? This guy a couple years ago felt like he was on a fast track to be one of the league's next great supporting superstars, if that, if that is a thing. And it just feels like that the production has dropped. There's been talk of a trade, there's been talk of a contract. That hasn't happened yet. The trade didn't happen. Is it, is that still an issue? Is this guy still an elite player? Should I still be taking him high in my fantasy draft? Like, what, what is going on with this kid?
- [65:31]
Mark Lazarus
It's weird, right? I remember a few years ago I was at the, we call it the car wash. The player media tour was in Chicago and Robertson was coming off his rookie year and he sat down and it was like the most engaging person I'd ever talked to in the NHL. He had such a. This ebullient personality and he's like, oh, I just saw Sydney Crosby, how cool is that? And he was just having. I'm like, this should be the face of the league. He's so good and he's so young and he's just got so much personality. Like I thought he was going to be an absolute top five face of the league kind of guy and it hasn't really worked out that way. And that's kind of the Dallas Stars lineup, right? They always have these guys that are like second tier stars. They haven't had a megastar in a long time. Which makes the Miko rant in acquisition so intriguing because now they've got the guy, right? And if Robertson can just continue to be a 30, 35 goal guy as a secondary star, that's probably all they need. But you know, Jim Neal has to do something if this doesn't work out, right? Like he's Going to have to just make a move for the sake of making a move. If they just keep running in place like this and Robertson's a free agent after this season, they need some cap help, you know, because of the rent and acquisition, because Ottinger is getting paid. Harley's going to get a huge raise coming up. There's a lot of star power on this team already. So Robertson is just, I think the speculation swirled around him just because he was the one guy that you could do something with. If Jim Neal wants to change something up or if he wants to free up some money, Jason Robertson is really his only avenue of doing that. And now that you have Miko Rantin and Wyatt Johnson is a 30 goal scorer, maybe he's a little bit more expendable now. To me, getting rid of Jason Robertson is tantamount to gm, you know, absolute failure. You can't, you can't get guys like that alone. And he's still a young guy. But Dallas might feel the need to do something, and if they're going to do something, he's really their only option.
- [67:18]
Jesse Granger
The hard thing with the Robertson decision for me, for Dallas, is like, it's not so much about the regular season. Like, I feel like he scores plenty of goals in the regular season. It's that he hasn't scored big goals when they need it. And by the time that happens, it's too late, right? Like, you can't, like, let's wait to see if he scores in the playoffs and then if we have to change, like by that point it's too late. They won't know if he has taken that step and if he has gotten back to being the star they need until we're in the playoffs and the season's nearly over. So, like, it's such a tough choice.
- [67:45]
Mark Lazarus
Two years ago, he wasn't producing. He was always around the net, but he wasn't producing. And then this past season, he was hurt. He missed the whole. He got hurt in the 82nd game of the regular season, missed the entire first round. When he came back, it took a few games for him to get going. And then at the very, very end, he started scoring and it was like almost too little too late. So he is, he, he is such an X factor for this team because he can be so good and so dominant. And the thought of him playing with Miko Ranton for the next 10 years is just absolutely tantalizing. But it might not be feasible.
- [68:14]
Sean McIndoo
Let's, let's kick off our three questions because I think unlike A lot of teams, this first one is tough when it comes to Dallas. They were the fifth best team in the league last year without having Miko Renton for most of the season. Second in the Central behind Winnipeg. Do they finish higher or lower in the standings this year?
- [68:38]
Mark Lazarus
You know, I think they finish higher. I do think they win the Central this year and that's just because I'm a little more skeptical about the jets than I am bullish on the stars. Like the Central is so difficult. Colorado could take that spot, Dallas could take that spot, Winnipeg could take that spot. I think, I think the jets come down to earth just a little bit. That's a good team but I don't know if it's 116 point team again. So I think Dallas can win this division and maybe avoid that first round matchup with Colorado and let Colorado Winnipeg fight it out and maybe, maybe Dallas can have a nice like a little Minnesota or St. Louis or a Utah. I think, I don't. I agree with Jesse that I'm concerned about the coaching change. Don't know how that's going to work but there's so much talent and having rant in for the full season now I think that they're going to win the Central Division.
- [69:22]
Jesse Granger
All right, who's. Who's the most important player on the team? Is it one of the guys we've talked about rant in a Robertson or do you think one of the guys down the lineup?
- [69:29]
Mark Lazarus
I think it's Miro Haskin in. I think you saw the second half of last season when he got hurt. How different this team is without him. Thomas Harley had a Norris caliber season last year so that's great. Like, like Haskin in his absence allowed Harley to flourish. And now you've got, you know, your Makar Taves, you know even better than that duo on the tave side of things. So I think a healthy Haskin in makes this team so dangerous. He's just so. He's one of the best defensive defensemen league and he's one of the best puck moving and offensive defense in the league. He's such a. He should be a megastar in this league and he's just not because he's in Dallas and it just doesn't get the attention. But a healthy Haskin in would have made that playoff run a whole lot easier. They might have been better off against Edmonton and it certainly would have made them have a better regular season. Remember they lost. They were like a seven game losing streak to end the regular season. They looked abysmal doing it. And part of that was they didn't have Miro Haskin in.
- [70:21]
Sean McIndoo
I had forgotten that actually. And that will remind me when we get to the playoffs and I'm freaking out over some team that had like a bad three game stretch. Please, please refresh my memory on that. We need a title for this upcoming season for you. Hit us.
- [70:38]
Mark Lazarus
I've got close encounters of the third round because they keep getting there. They keep coming so close to the Stanley cup final. They just can't get over that hump. That third round is where they go to die. So, you know, maybe this is the year they break through, but that's what.
- [70:50]
Sean McIndoo
I can I just say. I know, I know people are going to make fun of me for bringing up the Leafs in a central preview, but do you know how mean it was for you guys to put the Leafs fan and make him sit here and listen to how terrible it is to make the third round every year and what an abysmal failure that looks like?
- [71:11]
Mark Lazarus
Yeah, I can't wait to hear what the Leafs the title of the Leafs season's going to be. It's going to be some, some kind of horror movie.
- [71:19]
Sean McIndoo
I'm sure Leaf season title should be higher. Pete DeBoer as a consultant and just.
- [71:25]
Mark Lazarus
Get me to the second round, let alone the third. My God.
- [71:27]
Sean McIndoo
Third round.
- [71:28]
Jesse Granger
All right. Good job with Dallas, Mark. We'll take a break and we'll come back with St. Louis, Nashville and Minnesota.
- [71:37]
Mark Lazarus
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- [71:46]
Jesse Granger
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- [71:52]
Mark Lazarus
It's in our basement.
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Jesse Granger
I use it virtually every single day.
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Mark Lazarus
I'm a huge fan of the platform.
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Mark Lazarus
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Mark Lazarus
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Scott Wheeler
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Mark Lazarus
And gives you real time coaching so.
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Jesse Granger
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Mark Lazarus
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Scott Wheeler
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- [74:32]
Jesse Granger
Played behind a really bad team and eventually it broke him, is the short answer. When I look at Soros season I break it into two halves. I thought for the first couple months of the season he was actually himself. Like he was the brilliant goalie we're used to seeing now. He was playing behind an awful team. The team was awful for the whole season. UC Soros was only awful for the second half. To me, when I look at it like I even broke it down for first 31 games he had a.906 save percentage, which doesn't sound great, but when you consider that the average, the League average was below.900 last year,906, playing behind one of the worst teams in the league. He was playing really good hockey. I mean he had 5.3 goals saved above expected. He was doing what you hope a good goalie will do when the team is struggling in front of him. Eventually the dam Breaks, though, and especially with. To me, he's a. He's a smaller goalie. He relies on athleticism, but pucks are going to start finding holes and he lost some confidence the last 27 games of the season. He had an.882 save percentage and minus 10 goal saved above expected, which ranked 84th out of 85 goalies who played in the NHL during that span. So it was a disaster. I don't think he suddenly forgot how to goaltend. I think the team in front of him was so bad, and I think that it was not just that they were bad, it was how they were bad. They gave up all different kinds of chances. Like, I think some, like, as a goalie, if your team can be bad, but give up the same type of chance over and over and over so that it's predictable, it's a little easier to read the play. It's a little easier. You can kind of cheat in ways to, like, help yourself out in those situations. The Predators gave up every type of high danger chance you can possibly give up, and it makes it super hard for the goalie to predict where the play is going. They're not just giving up the. The low to high play, they're giving up backdoor passes, they're giving up rush chances. And I just think it's leaves you incredibly, like, unconfident in yourself. Like, you lose all confidence that you're going to be able to read the play and you're going to be able to get to the right spot. So I think that I'm, I'm not down on UC Soros. I still think he's a stud, but this team is going to have to be a lot better if, if he's going to get back to the kind of stats we're used to seeing out of him.
- [76:36]
Mark Lazarus
All right, I'm sorry, my brain went blank like 10 minutes ago when you said that the league average say percentage was under.900 this past year. Is that true?
- [76:44]
Jesse Granger
Yes, it was. It's gone down eight years in a row.
- [76:46]
Mark Lazarus
Are goalies bad now or are defenses bad now, or are scorers just that much better now?
- [76:51]
Jesse Granger
I think it's a combination of all those. I asked Bruce Cassidy about this last year and he gave a great answer, saying that, like, the league's getting younger and faster and it's not just that. Okay, so, like, all these young players are now getting put into the lineup and they're getting. They're taking the place of, like, what used to be, like, the third line grinder. Who is like a guy who isn't going to score a lot of goals, but he's defensively responsible. Those types of guys are getting replaced by young, talented players with upside. Not only are the young players better at scoring, they have more skill, they have better shooting. They're also worse defensively. So you're replacing a whole group of players that are. All they do is defense, and you're replacing them with guys who can only score and don't defend for anything. So I think that the direction of the league is making it harder on goalies. And honestly, it's making it harder on the Nashville Predators. Like, when I look at this team from a big picture perspective, even if these good players, they added Marsha so and Stamkos and like Philip Forsberg, even if they play to their potential, I just don't know if this is a team that's built to win in the NHL in 2025, 2026, where the league is fast and skilled. Like, they're just. The Predators have a bunch of old plotting players that are good. Like, Steven Stamkos is still an awesome player, but he's not fast. He's like, I just don't know if this roster is built to win in this type of NHL.
- [78:11]
Sean McIndoo
Speaking of guys who back in the day could score a bit, but also had to play defense, that would describe Andrew Burnett, who was a pretty good forward back in his day. How confident are we that he's also a pretty good head coach? After the last few years?
- [78:29]
Matt Larkin
It's.
- [78:30]
Jesse Granger
It's. I think that's going to be the answer. Like, if he can get this team playing better, structurally, defensively, then this team's going to be good. Because I do think, like, you look at Steven Stamkos, he shot below his career average shooting percentage. Jonathan Marchesau well below his career average shooting percentage. Philip Forsberg, well below his career average. Those guys are all due for regression to score. I think this team's going to score some goals. Can they defend well enough to allow UC Soros to do what he does? And to me, that's all going to be on Burnett. Like, I. If he can keep this team structured and defensively sound, they're going to have a chance to be better. This division is brutal. I don't like, I want to predict Nashville to make the playoffs, but then I look at the teams above them and it's like, this division is just too good. I just don't see room for upward movement. But if this team's going to be better than they were Last year it's going to be all up to Burnett to get them to play some structural defensive hockey because they were an absolute mess in their own end last year. Like they were just lost. The team had no defensive structure.
- [79:30]
Sean McIndoo
You don't typically see a team, a GM go out and spend a ton of money in free agency, have his team underperform as badly as Nashville did, and then keep the coach. Now obviously Barry Trots is, is a coach, he's a GM now, but I mean we still think of him as a coach. So maybe he's got a little more patience. Maybe he looks at it differently, looks for different things than, than I do sitting on my couch. But is Andrew Burnett a good bet for first coach fired this year or is there really a locked in sense of patience in Nashville?
- [80:05]
Jesse Granger
Yeah, I, I think you're, you nailed it. That because Trots is a coach, he has had teams underperform and know like, well, it's not my fault, like the coach, like there's nothing I could have done. I do think that that gives him a different perspective, that maybe gives him more patience. But at the same time he's going to be like he's, he's going to have to fire Burnett before he gets fired. So it's like at some point the fire is going to be getting hot under his seat and at that point you have to make a move. So yeah, I do think that Burnett, if you're looking around the league team, teams that have high expectations and the chances of them meeting them are low, it's hard to find a team with better combination of those two things than Nashville. Like I said, this division is brutal. Even if they're a lot better than they were last year, there's so much like there, the gap between them and those top teams, Dallas, Winnipeg and Colorado is a massive, massive gap. Like this Nashville team could add 20 points to their last year's total and they're still nowhere close to a playoff spot. So yeah, it's, it's going to be tough for this team.
- [81:04]
Mark Lazarus
The really alarming thing is like, like everyone probably believes, and rightfully so, that San Jose and Chicago are going to be the two worst teams in the league this year. But I don't think there's a team in a worse position, maybe Pittsburgh than Nashville. This is an old team. Their average forward age is almost 30. One of their only young guys they have. Luke Evangelista isn't even signed yet. So they are, they're screwed here. Like they're just starting out the descent into Hell, coming off this awful season, but 68 points last year was unbelievable. Let's get to our questions here. Will this team finish higher or lower than it did last year?
- [81:38]
Jesse Granger
Higher. It was an easy. I mean, 68 points is. I don't think this team can be any worse. Like, I. I think it's a pretty safe assumption they're going to be higher than 68 points now, higher in the standings. That is a little bit harder because, like I said, I feel like the gap is huge. And I feel like when I look even like St. Louis, like, we're not bringing them up. St. Louis and Minnesota aren't considered in that same tier. I still think they're better teams than Nashville, so I do think they end up with more than 68 points. I don't think this team makes the playoffs.
- [82:05]
Sean McIndoo
All right, let's see if you surprise me here as I ask Jesse the goalie whisperer Granger, who will be the most important player on the Nashville Predators?
- [82:14]
Jesse Granger
Yeah, I mean, it's UC Soros, but I already talked about him, so let's go. Roman Yossi, this guy, he missed. He missed a bunch of games last year. 28, 29 games down the stretch. And by the way, that kind of coincides with when UC Soros numbers plummeted. Like I was saying earlier, like, Roman Yossi is everything to this team. On the back end, he is so good. I mean, he's. He's kind of in the Norris conversation every year. He never, like. He's always, like, edged out by one guy. But I think he's one of the best defensemen in the league, and they need him not only to be back, but to be back at his top level. Like, if this team has any chance at turning it around and being a good team, the team we expected them all to be when they signed all these guys, it starts with Roman Yossi being elite.
- [82:52]
Mark Lazarus
All right, and this is Nashville. You got a sad country song, you tell me about your wife leaving you or your pickup truck running over your dog while drinking a Bud Light. What do you got?
- [83:00]
Sean McIndoo
Is it any sadder than Descent into Hell, which Laz has already dropped on this team?
- [83:05]
Mark Lazarus
I've lived in it the last five years. I'm aware of what's coming for the Nashville Predators.
- [83:09]
Jesse Granger
I think you guys are going to be disappointed. I wanted so bad to find, like, a country, like, honky tonk song. I don't listen to country music. I could not come up with one. The song came up with is a song that I like that has nothing to do with country music. Zombie by the Cranberries because if this team is good, they are going to be slow, they are going to be plotting. They are old, but they'll still get you in the end. So to me, the only way this team has a good season is if they is if they win the way the Zombies win in the movies. And I just love that song by the Cranberry. So Zombie is my pick.
- [83:40]
Mark Lazarus
All right. Good stuff, Jesse. Now let's move down to St. Louis. I guess that's up from Nashville, wouldn't it be? We are joined by genuinely one of the great humans alive and a heck of a beat writer to boot, Jeremy Rutherford. Now JR the Blues have won just one playoff series since they spiked that Stanley cup in 2019. That unforgettable run kind of been mired in mediocrity. Are they on their way up or are they on their way down here?
- [84:04]
Matt Larkin
Yeah, Laz, it's been a tough couple years because the Blues are in a self admitted retool. Doug Armstrong continues to say re whatever you want to use. Whatever word you want to use. Hey, but listen, when you can add some quality players in the draft and you can also play like the Blues did at the end of last season and squeak into the playoffs and then take the President's Trophy team Jets, all the way to the brink and obviously you should have won that game without those late goals with the extra attacker you could have been playing in the second round against the Dallas Stars. So I think the combination of remaining competitive, they didn't tear things down to the studs. And while also picking up some quality players in the draft, I think they got to feel good about the direction that they're headed.
- [84:47]
Sean McIndoo
Just, just to ask, how are people in St. Louis? Are you over that playoff exit yet or is that the sort of thing? Because I, it would take me decades to get over the way this team went out. How, how, how is everyone down there?
- [85:01]
Matt Larkin
It's a fair question. I think if you look big picture and you step back and you think where was this team before the Four nations and they weren't going to make the playoffs and they had to win 12 games in a row just to be able to get into the playoffs on the last day. And also when you consider that Blues fans going through this retool thought that it might be two, three years before you even get into the playoffs. So I think when you look at it that way, it wasn't as difficult. But then when you're in the moment and you have A two goal lead with four minutes to go and have to experience that. Obviously it's extremely difficult but you know the team is saying all the right things. They're saying that it's made him even hungrier. Doug Armstrong has said that he feels like it's kind of sped up this re. Whatever retool and I think that the Blues feel better for it. They felt like they're young players like a Jimmy Snugrud, get some good exceptions experience. He got in there and didn't look out of place at all. So obviously everybody trying to turn that devastating loss to the jets in game seven into a positive.
- [85:59]
Jesse Granger
To me, when I look at this team and I'm looking for like reasons to be optimistic, for improvement. Montgomery is the, is the biggest reason to me and like you look like I went back and I looked at after he took over their, their defensive numbers and their second. They allowed the second fewest high danger chances, fourth fewest expected goals, fourth fewest goals. That was his thing in Boston, like being so buttoned up defensively and obviously he doesn't have a berger on in St. Louis. But do you expect that to be the style of this team this year that's just so hard to get inside on?
- [86:28]
Matt Larkin
Yeah, I think that's the storyline. Obviously everybody knows that Jim Montgomery came in late last year, middle of the year, and they had some success with him. But if you dig the numbers like you did Jesse, those five on five numbers are terrific. And you know that's the key to, to improving the team. And they brought in one thing that we can't forget. They brought in Cam Fowler and they didn't wait until the deadline to do it. They brought him in early and everybody said he was kind of washed up real bad, those Anaheim teams. But he came in and he gave Colton Pareco a great partner in that top pair. They make the trade this offseason for Logan MAU, he's going to come in and try to help. So the focus for sure is going to be that five on five. But you, you hit the nail on the head. Jim Montgomery, because he's been here now for several months, people forget about him, but this is going to be him from day one, not him coming in and the team behind in the standings and chasing the rest of the year and needing 12 games to even get back into the playoff picture. This is him preaching details starting tomorrow in camp. And you know the players love him. They love, they, they know that he knows the X's and O's and they Love his energy. They love coming to the rink, they love playing for him. And that's the situation. I think you're right that he is the key here.
- [87:33]
Mark Lazarus
These, these blues kind of remind me of the Pre Capri Soft wild, where it's a really good team. There's a lot of good players. You've got some high end guys in, you know, Robert Thomas kind of more of a playmaker, Jordan Kyro maybe more of a finisher, but you don't have that superstar. Who, who's the guy this team turns to in a pinch. When you need someone to carry this team, is there, is there a guy like on the way up in this roster or in the system, someone that could really become the face of this franchise?
- [88:00]
Matt Larkin
Yeah, I think you're right. And for the couple years now we've talked about Robert Thomas being that face of the franchise. Last year, if not for the injury, he got hit blocking a shot and had to miss, what was it, a month or so, he could have been on his way to being that guy. I think if you project the points out, if he plays almost 82 game schedule, it's, it's near 100 points. And I think people look at him to be that face of the franchise type guy, you know, in the end, when we look back in 10 years, is he going to be that guy? I don't know. I think he can be a top line center who's underrated defensively. A lot of people don't look at Robert Thomas and call him one of the top 10 centers in the league, but when you add his defense into, I think he is, you know, let's touch on Kyro, everybody's past couple years in St. Louis. Can he get to 40 goals? He got to 37. I think he has to get to that next level to be considered that guy. Last. But the name, I'll give you the name of the guy who could be that star and he still got a little ways to go is Jimmy Snug Rud. He comes in last year and he plays 14 games. Seven of those I mentioned in the playoffs look out of place. But he's got a shot and you know, I'm not going to compare him to anybody. You know, he's just 21 years old. He's going to play his first full season in the NHL. And maybe he's not on Caprisov's planet, but I think that he has the potential to be a sniper that we haven't seen in St. Louis in a long, long time and could Be that.
- [89:25]
Sean McIndoo
Guy you mentioned, Robert Thomas. From an outside perspective, it feels, felt like there was a little bit of trade buzz around Robert Thomas, but and more so Jordan Cairo and then obviously nothing happened. Was, was that real? Was that just people on the outside making noise to entertain themselves or was this team actually open to making a big move like that? And if so, what does that tell us going forward?
- [89:55]
Matt Larkin
Yeah, I think there was some truth to it when it comes to Cairo. He's a guy who has kind of been a lightning rod here in St. Louis since he's been here. The defensive play wasn't up to par his first couple of years in the league, but guys, he went from a minus, what, 37, 38 to a plus 23 last year. You're talking about over a couple of years span. So he's put significant work into the defensive end. But that said, I do think that if the Blues had an opportunity to upgrade the team and it included trading Jordan Kyru, I think that they would have considered it. I think that there were talks with Buffalo and, and some other teams where Kyra's name did pop up. Montreal, I don't think that was the case with, with Thomas as much. I think they fully believe that he can be that number one center. But a trade didn't materialize with either of those guys, particularly Cairo. And I think you look at his contract guys, he's six more years at 8.0.125 with this cap growing. If he becomes a 40 goal scorer, you can talk about warts in a player's game or you know, maybe he improved his plus minus, his defense is better, but he's still not that guy that you can win with in the playoffs. You know, there's a lot of questions about him, but that's a good value contract, especially if he can keep up his offensive production.
- [91:12]
Mark Lazarus
I've always been a Jordan Bennington skeptic and I think leading up to the four nations, we weren't even sure he was going to be Canada goalie and then he went out and he won the whole thing. Do you feel, does he feel that he's got that position locked up or is he playing for his Olympic spot in some ways? Does he feel that pressure, you think?
- [91:29]
Matt Larkin
Yeah, I certainly know that if we had him sitting right next to me and say, hey, do you have this locked up? He'd kind of laugh because as you, as you know, Laz, you know, Team Canada Olympics, I mean that's. There's going to be so much speculation. And even though he won the four nations and won the gold medal. You know, there's some criticism about him early in the tournament. Is he really the guy? But he's definitely motivated by that situation. I think it helps the Blues to know that he's going to be motivated, wanting to be Team Canada's goalie. And here's the thing, you know, I realize everybody's going to talk about the antics and swinging it guys and that that reputation is deserved based on what we've seen, you know, the past five, six, seven years from Jordan Bennington. But I will say this. He shows up in big games. It goes all the way back to the Stanley Cup. It goes all the way to the four nations gold medal. The big saves on Brady Tkachuk, all those guys late. I always say this. If, if you were in the room listening to Doug Armstrong make a pitch to Team Canada about bringing Jordan Bennington in and potentially making him the starter, that's what he would say. He'd say, guys, listen, is he going to let in a few goals? I'm sure, but he's going to show up when we need him the most and that's what he keeps doing.
- [92:35]
Jesse Granger
I think he's a lock to be Canada's goalie because of those big games and because of what, like I mentioned earlier, like, I think this is going to be a great defensive team. And Bennington may not be the type of goalie who can have like the sustained, like, consistency every night in order to win a Vezina, but you put a goalie that's that talented with, that's. That can have big games behind a team that's great defensively. I had to look up his odds. He's 50 to 1 to win the Vezina. He has the 21st best odds in the league. There are two 20 goalies with better odds than Bennington to win the vessel. To me, that's crazy. And I think goaltending is a strength for this team. Not just Bennington, but I think Hofer is one of the best second goalies in the NHL and I think that helps take some pressure off him. Maybe doesn't make him play every night. They can. Like, how do you view the goaltending going into the season? Do you view it as big of a strength as I do?
- [93:22]
Matt Larkin
Yeah, I like it. You know, a lot of people will say one of the top tandems in the league. And you know, Jesse, you know more about the tandems than I do. You know, for me to sit here and say top, you know, 10 in the league, I just can't do that, not knowing enough about all of them. But I think that Joel Hofer is to me an up and comer who could be the starter here in a couple years. I think, you know, even at his age, he just signed a new two year deal. I think he's going to make about 3.5 million the past couple years. He's been good support for Jordan Bennington. You know, he, I think he got to what, 27 starts the past two years. You know, does he get to 30, 32 with the compressed schedule with the Olympics, we'll see. But I feel like they got a good mixture right now with these two. And in a couple of years Joel Hofer is probably going to take the job. But right now Jordan Bennington is keeping this team competitive.
- [94:10]
Mark Lazarus
I'd like to point out that Jesse didn't call him a backup goalie, he called him a second goalie. That's the most goalie thing I've ever heard. All right, so the Blues were. Blues were the second wild card last year. Barely get into the playoffs, fifth in the Central, 96 points. We know there's three legitimate cup contenders in this division in Dallas and Winnipeg and Colorado. Do you see the Blues being better or worse, higher in the standings or lower than this year?
- [94:35]
Matt Larkin
Yeah, I think Laz, I think, and this is what I've said for a couple of weeks now, I think they can be a wild card team based on the roster that they have. And I think if, and this is, you know, the case across the league, we could talk about any lineup. But if Robert Thomas is 100 point guy and Jordan Kyro is a 40 goal guy and Pavel Buchanavich, who they had to force to center last year out of necessity but then moved him back to where he belongs on the wing, can get back to being a 30 goal guy like he was a few years ago when Jim Montgomery was here as an assistant. You know, I think this can be a team that, I'm just going to say challenges for third place in the Central. I don't know which one of those teams because you look at a Colorado, a Dallas and a Winnipeg, I'm not going to sit here and say that the Blues can overtake any of those players with this roster. Look, they added Nick Buxtead and they added Pew Suter. Nobody's saying, hey, they got 30 goal scorers going to push them up over any one of those three teams in the Central Division. So I feel like they're a wild card team. They proved that Last year roster looks like a little bit better, but some things are definitely going to have to bounce their way and maybe go against Dallas, Winnipeg, Colorado for the Blues to climb into one of those top three spots.
- [95:48]
Sean McIndoo
Who's the most important player on this team going forward?
- [95:51]
Matt Larkin
Yeah, I'm going to go back to Robert Thomas, I really am. And he felt like it was a snub not going to four nations. He realized he had the injury, but he wants to be on this Olympic team. He was at the orientation camp in Calgary and I think that the reason I pick him and I know he's an easy pick, I'd be easier to, you know, it'd be a lot harder to go grab a third line guy or a defenseman and say this guy is an important player. But I think it's the guy Robert Thomas. Because if he plays well, it likely means that a Jimmy Snug root who's going to be on his wing is going to score some goals based off of Thomas success and Pavel Buchanavich. Look, Buchanavich, I just mentioned this a minute ago. He dropped 20 goals last year. This is a guy who signed a new six year contract extension that starts the this year. That gives him a raise up to 8 million a year. You know he can't be a 20 goal scorer. He's got to be a 30 goal scorer. So if Robert Thomas is having success, that means Uchnavich and Snugurd are too. And I think that's going to be the key to the Blues season.
- [96:52]
Mark Lazarus
Sean, remind me, did Robert Thomas make your All2First Names team?
- [96:57]
Sean McIndoo
I believe he was on the consideration list but did not make the actual team.
- [97:04]
Jesse Granger
Brutal.
- [97:04]
Sean McIndoo
So that's another, another snub for him to fire him up to get him going. Man.
- [97:08]
Jesse Granger
I think that one actually bothers him more than the Four Nations.
- [97:11]
Murat Atesh
Yeah.
- [97:13]
Sean McIndoo
Yeah.
- [97:14]
Jesse Granger
All right, junior, last question. What's the song slash movie title for the blue season?
- [97:19]
Matt Larkin
You guys, I put a lot of thought into it. I got to go to my page here. So I am not. I listen to music. If a song comes on, I say oh, I know that song. But I'm tough with artists and I'm tough with titles. But I got one for you. I did my homework. I knew you were going to ask this question and I got one for you. Here I am going to go with Hurry Up Tomorrow by the weekend. Anybody know that song?
- [97:44]
Mark Lazarus
I don't know. I'm not cool enough.
- [97:46]
Matt Larkin
Yeah, neither do I. But I think it's Hurry Up Tomorrow because a let's go back to that Winnipeg loss. You know, the Blues can't wait for the start of the season to get here, so they want to put that loss behind them. And also with all these young prospects on the way, we're not just talking about Jimmy Snuggerud and Dalibor Daborski, but we're also talking about Justin Carboneau, their first round pick this year, Otto Stenberg. They've had five first round picks in the last three years. And this last weekend, guys, when they had their prospect camp, all five of those first rounders were on the ice together. Three forwards, two down defenseman, a five man unit of first round picks for the St. Louis Blues. So when you're in your car later, you're sitting at your desk, you got your itunes or whatever, you listen to Granger, you, young guy, pull up the weekend and go with hurry up tomorrow for St. Louis Blues.
- [98:38]
Jesse Granger
All right.
- [98:39]
Mark Lazarus
All right, junior, good stuff. Go eat a piece of matzo with some ketchup and plastic cheese on it and call it pizza. We're moving on to the Minnesota Wild.
- [98:47]
Matt Larkin
That's called incredible pizza. And it's called enoch. See you guys.
- [98:51]
Mark Lazarus
Okay, we're going to wrap up our look at the Central Division with our twin Titans in the Twin Cities, Michael Russo and Joe Smith. Obviously, we have to start with Kirill Caprizov, who just signed the richest deal in NHL history. Eight years, $136 million. That's $17 million a year. Before we even get into what this means for the Wild on the ice, how important was it for Bill Guerin to take care of this before it dragged into the regular season and became a bigger spot story?
- [99:15]
Michael Russo
I think it was a huge, huge importance for this team to get it done. My biggest concern into going into the year wasn't even the injury risk for Kirill. It was, what if this team got off to a bad start and then all of a sudden this becomes a distraction. You start questioning on now what is really going to keep Kirill Caprioff in Minnesota. So I just think that, you know, there had to be a domino to drop with all these unrestricted free agents that could potentially become unrestricted next year and all these guys entering the final year of their contract. It always felt like Carrel would be the first guy if he was willing to resign in Minnesota, just based on the fact that the Wild were so publicly intent on getting it done. But I just thought it was absolutely critical that they got it done before opening night just so Joe Smith wouldn't be creating A distraction all year with all his questions.
- [100:00]
Mark Lazarus
Now, with all due respect to, I guess, Marion Gabric, Caprizov is clearly the best player in Minnesota Wild history. He's their first true superstar. He's earned that money. That said, he only played in 41 games last season. He's missed time with injuries each of the last three years. In your guys eyes, how big of a risk factor is it to make that kind of franchise altering commitment to a guy with a recent history of getting hurt?
- [100:22]
Matt Larkin
Of course there's a risk factor when you sign a guy to a record breaking deal.
- [100:26]
Mark Lazarus
A guy who turns 29 when it.
- [100:28]
Matt Larkin
Starts with 37 when it ends. A guy who missed half the season last year due to surgery to a lower body injury. But they're big believers in his, in his conditioning and how he treats his.
- [100:41]
Mark Lazarus
Body and that he can, you know, go through this contract not injury free.
- [100:46]
Matt Larkin
But won't be an issue going forward. And more importantly, it's more of a risk if you don't sign him.
- [100:51]
Mark Lazarus
There's no plan B.
- [100:51]
Matt Larkin
If Kabir Kufrisov leaves, there's no replacement.
- [100:54]
Mark Lazarus
He's a foundational player and if you.
- [100:56]
Matt Larkin
Want to build a championship winning team.
- [100:59]
Mark Lazarus
If he leaves, you pretty much have.
- [101:00]
Matt Larkin
To start not from scratch. You still have some young pieces here, but it's a whole different ball game. It would have been devastating, as Bill Guerin put it, to not sign. So I think the risks were outweighed by the rewards here, the need to sign him.
- [101:14]
Mark Lazarus
And that's why Bill Guerin called it.
- [101:15]
Matt Larkin
The most important signing in franchise history.
- [101:18]
Michael Russo
I don't even think it's that. I think it's his age. I mean, to me it's now incumbent on Bill Guerin to make sure in the early part of this window at 29 years old that they actually build a serious contender here in Minnesota. You know, we all know that in years five, six, seven, eight, Kirill's not going to be a $17 million player as good as he is. Father time always catches up. To your point, Mark, you know there is an injury risk with him. He's missed 41 games last year. There's always that concern. But to me it's more so now. When you give an eight year deal to a 29 year old, you better make sure that you're going to win in the early part of this.
- [101:58]
Mark Lazarus
Okay, so Mike, you and I have joked about this before, but I've been covering the Blackhawks for 14 seasons now and I've never once covered a truly meaningful regular Season game. They've always been too good or too bad for the games to truly matter. Meanwhile, year after year, you've covered nothing but meaningful regular season games in Minnesota because the Wild are always, you know, scratching and clawing just to get in, jockeying for positioning even with Caprizov locked down. Are we looking at more of the same this year?
- [102:22]
Michael Russo
I still think that this team is actually a really good team as long as they stay healthy. This team last December was as good as there was in the NHL. You know, Carell was in a hard trophy type of of season. They do have a lot of really young kids right now on this team that it looked like they're about to take that next step. I think Matt Boldy could be true superstar on this team. Marco Rossi looks like he could have a big year. Guys have come into shape. Ryan Hartman's had a great, great training camp and so and then the question is now can Danilo Yiroff and Liam Ogren and these guys take the next step? So I just think that, that this team has a chance to make some noise in the central this year.
- [103:02]
Matt Larkin
Well, I think the Western Conference is going to be so challenging this year. All the teams that were fighting with the Wild for a playoff spot last.
- [103:09]
Mark Lazarus
Year, the Blues, of course the Utah Mammoth are going to take a step.
- [103:13]
Matt Larkin
I think so It'll be a dogfight for sure. But I still do think the Wilds Corps and the team, if they stay healthy could make a run for that third spot maybe in the division. They should be a playoff theme this year if all things go correctly and Gustafson stays healthy and plays well. So yes, it will be a fight. It won't be easy.
- [103:31]
Mark Lazarus
They're not a shoo in let's say.
- [103:33]
Matt Larkin
For a top three spot in the division. But I think they'll be in the contention there one of those spots. So it will be a close one to the end. But I think they made, they took Till season finale 20 seconds left in.
- [103:44]
Mark Lazarus
The season last year for them to make the playoffs.
- [103:45]
Matt Larkin
So it couldn't be any more to the wire than that.
- [103:48]
Jesse Granger
When I look at this team outside of obviously Caprisov's the biggest story and you mentioned like they want to take that step to being one of the top teams. I think the most obvious path to that compared to last year is just staying healthy. But it's not like this team added a ton. The guy I look at in terms of like who can make a difference on this team and make it look like a different team than last Year it's Zeev Bouilliam. I got to see him a little bit in that playoff series against Vegas in the first round. What are your expectations for him this year? Now that he's got a full season, it looks like he's going to be on the top power play unit. Do you think he can be like a real difference maker for this team in year one?
- [104:21]
Michael Russo
I'll let Joe answer that question because he's our Z boy and beat writer. But I would have bet every amount of money in my wallet, in my bank account that you were going to say Philip Gustafson. So I'll, I'll just. If you are goalie whisperer at the Athletic Jesper Walstedt. I was ready to answer about it.
- [104:39]
Jesse Granger
Took everything in me not to ask a question. Wallstead. I, I, yes, I scoured the Internet looking for something other than Jesper Walsted to ask you about. So I, I went with Z Bullum because I absolutely love the guy.
- [104:50]
Mark Lazarus
Yeah, well, answer your question.
- [104:52]
Matt Larkin
I do think Z will play a big role this year. He has to earn it in camp, but like he realizes such a different level. Like he dropped into the playoffs last year, which is a crazy thing. He gained 10, 15 pounds in the offseason, wants to get stronger, especially in his own end. He's a really confident kid. Like guys, all he does is win, right. Little junior championships, a national championship. And so last year losing the Frozen Four and losing in the first round with the Wild, a little bit of motivator for him, but I know there's a big believer in him in terms of what he can be in the coming years. I don't be the first year, but he'll be playing a pretty key role, I think, in the blue line. And if he can help spark the power play a little bit or bring some offense from the blue line, I think it'll be him. You're off your check. The youth here has to play a factor if they're going to take the next up.
- [105:39]
Sean McIndoo
The thing that stands out as an outsider when you look at Minnesota is a lot of good young talent on the roster. You know, a lot of teams have got the prospects on the way, that sort of thing. But, but Minnesota's got several guys that are already established. Their two top scorers last year, Matt Boldi and Marco Rossi. Brock Faber on the blue line. Of those three guys, which one, given their age and given what they've shown so far, would you bet on to make the leap this year, so to speak, and go from being A great young player to just a great player, period. Who's, you know, showing up on awards ballots at the end of the year. Does that apply to any of them? And if so, which one's most likely?
- [106:27]
Michael Russo
I think Boldy is, is the obvious answer there. You know, the issue with Faber is, you know, he, he might not get a lot of power play time anymore. In fact, listening to John Hines when I sat down with him for the Q and A, I almost wonder if he's going to be on the power play at all because I think they really want to lower his ice time and maybe make him into sort of a PK specialist is an area where he has struggled. And Z Boyam, as, as Joe just mentioned, is probably going to quarterback their number one power play. And then you have Spurgeon on the number two. Unless you're going with 2D, it's going to be hard for favor to continue to get points. Boldy is just an electric player. He took an unbelievable step in the playoffs last year, which was, you know, the biggest disappointment about his career so far. In his first two playoff appearances, really had one goal in 10 or 11 games. He had five in last year's playoffs and I thought was, was outstanding. So I think he's just going to continue to get better. He's got this, you know, incredible ability to shoot. Pops, it's got incredible vision. He's an underrated playmaker and he's gonna, you know, get an opportunity to play. Whether it's Kirill Caprisov on his other wing or Vladimir Tarasenko, he's gonna have the ability to just continue to play in every facet of the lineup.
- [107:38]
Mark Lazarus
So I think we, we know how this, how a wild team can succeed, right? If Kirill Caprizov's playing at an MVP level like he was the first half of last year, if Bouilliam is, is what we think he's going to be, a favor takes that next step, Boldy takes the next step. What's the weakness? What is the biggest concern? Where, where might the hiccups come from?
- [107:55]
Matt Larkin
I mean, I think part of it's been a year kind of a every year thing is a penalty kill. The special teams, you know, that's been a killer for them in the playoffs and then they've been trying everything to do to fix it, right? Different coaches, different personnel. Boldy was a big boost last year and I mean, I think that's an easy one to think about. I think overall, you know, the depth kind of hurt last year with all the injuries, Eric Sabak and Caprice off, they didn't have the sustainability to kind of. They had to limp into the playoffs. They had last point seconds of the season before they made the playoffs. So special teams, for me, I think especially the penalty kill, which has been a big struggle for them.
- [108:31]
Michael Russo
And, and, you know, I'll just add, like, I, I know you can't control this right now, but injuries, I mean, this team was as good as it got in the league last year. You know, mid December, they were right on par with Winnipeg and Washington for the best record in the league. And then it was just one after another after another after another. So they need to prove, you know, Jonas Fardeen is already starting the season on the shelf. You know, Caprisoft missed half the season last year. Eric's neck is always hurt. And these are important, important players. And so they just, they, you know, they have a little more depth this season because they no longer have that 14.7 million in dead cap space just, you know, weighing them down. But no team could. Could really endure the injuries that they had last season. You know, from Spurgeon to Middleton to Gustafson, it was just over and over again. So. So it is imper. This is two years in a row where this team has been devastated by injuries. They. They've got to figure out a way to stay healthy.
- [109:25]
Jesse Granger
All right, guys, we've been wrapping up every team preview with three questions. Get you on the record and get your predictions. We'll get you both to answer these. Last year, 97 points, fourth in the center Central. Do they finish higher or lower in the standings than last year?
- [109:39]
Matt Larkin
I. I think they're right on the same at number four, actually. I don't think they make that necessary, that drum, but I think they're around that same 95.7 point range.
- [109:46]
Jesse Granger
I do that.
- [109:46]
Matt Larkin
They do make the playoffs, in my opinion.
- [109:48]
Murat Atesh
Yeah.
- [109:48]
Michael Russo
If they're healthy, I think they get more.
- [109:50]
Sean McIndoo
Question two, we've been asking, who's the most important player that feels maybe unnecessary for the Wild? Is it Caprizov? And if so, is there anyone who's a close number two?
- [110:02]
Matt Larkin
I think Gustav said.
- [110:04]
Michael Russo
Yep.
- [110:04]
Jesse Granger
Yes.
- [110:05]
Matt Larkin
With the way the team is built, you know, when he's on, they're a hard team to beat. And when he's, you know, considering wall sets behind him right now and a little uncertainty of what he can show this year as a backup, they need him healthy. They need him to play like he did last year. And this first year with the Wild, he's In that level, it may be a big difference maker and a big eraser for some mistakes that are made. So I think Gustafson maybe 1B if your Capri stop is 1A.
- [110:29]
Michael Russo
I agree.
- [110:30]
Mark Lazarus
Jesse literally celebrated with a fist pump when you said Gustin. That's how big of a goalie nerd he is. I mean, it's disturbing at times.
- [110:36]
Jesse Granger
It's also just because I couldn't agree more. And I think this is the most pressure that's ever been on him. I think having Mark Andre Flurry as your safety net, like if I have a bad couple games, we can just turn to him and he can get us some wins. Jesper Walstedt is so green like it is to me. I feel like there's more pressure pressure on Gustav, a lot more pressure on Gustafson than he's ever had. So it's going to be interesting to see how he reacts to that.
- [110:57]
Peter Ball
Yeah.
- [110:57]
Michael Russo
And they're going to start working on a contract extension here in the next little bit. So that'll be interesting as well.
- [111:04]
Mark Lazarus
All right, and here's our last question. Give us your the title for the 2526 Wild season book title, movie title, song title.
- [111:11]
Scott Power
What do you got, Joe?
- [111:14]
Matt Larkin
I'm saying Brave New World life outside my first round series. I think after 10 years this will be the year that they advance the second round. I know Mike and Joy is going to Florida every spring and summer for the playoff round, but I think he might be stuck in Minnesota for at least another round this year. Brave New World.
- [111:35]
Michael Russo
Brave New World. Just because we don't have to write about Parisian suitor too. So that that'll be super. It's gonna be weird to not every story remind everybody that oh, they got they were weighed down with 14 in cap space.
- [111:48]
Mark Lazarus
Well, I love Minnesota fans. They're so hardy. They've been put up with so much. I hope for their sake that it's not as bad as the Captain America Brave New World movie was last year. So. All right, that wraps up our Central Division rundown, but let's get our own picks, guys. Jesse, who do you have winning this division?
- [112:03]
Jesse Granger
I'm going to go with the Avalanche. I think. I don't necessarily think that they made the biggest improvements over the off season and they like obviously the Charlie Coyle thing didn't work out. He leaves. But they did sign Nelson to the long term deal. I think they're going to just the players that are there are going to be better fits this year. Another full season with nature. I think Mackenzie Blackwood is going to be. Everybody that listens to this pod knows how high I am. I am on him. I think he's going to have a huge season. I think he's going to be in the Vezina conversation. I'll take the ABs to win the division.
- [112:31]
Mark Lazarus
Sean, what's your pick?
- [112:33]
Sean McIndoo
I'll I'll go Dallas. I am not sold on the coaching change but I I think history is showing shown us that even coaching changes that don't necessarily work sometimes get a short term bump at the beginning and I think that's enough to get a really talented and hopefully healthy Dallas team back to the top.
- [112:52]
Mark Lazarus
I have picked Dallas I think 37 consecutive years and every single time they ask us to do predictions on staff. Why stop now? To me it's still the most talented to the most well put together roster in the league. I believe in Jake Ottinger. I think a settled Miko rant in his to have a monster year. Jason Robertson's playing for a contract. Yeah, I'm sticking with the stars for now. So that's it from us. Thanks for listening to the Athletic Hockey Show Central Division preview. Tune in tomorrow for our Pacific Division preview and make sure to check out the Atlantic and Metro previews if you've missed them.
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