NHL Draft Combine: What did we learn?

Summary

The Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series — NHL Draft Combine: What Did We Learn?

Date: June 8, 2026
Host: Max Bultman
Guests: Corey Pronman, Scott Wheeler

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Overview

This episode is a comprehensive post-mortem of the 2026 NHL Draft Combine in Buffalo. Max, Corey, and Scott break down what scouts and executives learned about this year’s top prospects, how the top of the draft could shake out, whose interviews or measurements might have moved the needle, and how off-ice and on-ice evaluations are influencing teams’ draft boards. The discussion also weaves in broader debates about NHL draft philosophies and a deep dive into the future of prospects—and even includes some passionate discourse about NHL award voting and current team-building conundrums.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Emerging Consensus at the Top of the Draft

• Corey Pronman reports that NHL execs and scouts see an emerging consensus around the top four picks:
  • Gavin McKenna (dynamic winger)
  • Ivar Stenberg (dynamic winger)
  • Caleb Malhotra (center, Brantford)
  • Chase Reed (defenseman, Sioux)
• “Can't guarantee what order those top four are going to go in... almost everybody I talk to in Buffalo believes [Toronto] will take McKenna with the first pick.” (02:54, Corey)
• After the top four, a “run of defensemen” is expected, featuring names like Carson Karls, Albert Smith, Keaton Verhoff, and Malte Gustafsson.

2. Chase Reed's Unique Value

• Reed has separated himself among the defensemen, seen as a safe, all-around bet.
• “He has no clear issue in his game and he checks every box... great skater, great puck mover, great all around player. He looks like the kind of defenseman that goes 1, 2, 3, like that's the kind of prospect he is.” (06:46, Corey)
• Reed reportedly made a strong impression in team interviews. (07:41, Scott)

3. Combine Interview Standouts and Red Flags

• The combine focuses more on personality, competitiveness, and player decision-making than pure athletic tests.
  • Interview winners: Chase Reed, Carson Karls, Viggo Bjork
  • Interview concerns: Smiths perceived as cocky, Tyen Lawrence challenged for his tough season and college change, Samu Eldari flagged for conditioning.

Notable Quote:

"I had a couple people text me like, I don't know if I like this kid [Smiths] kind of thing." (08:14, Scott)

4. Athletic Testing & Injury Concerns

• Some prospects did not participate due to injury (Carson Karls’ concussion symptoms, Marcus Ruck’s back, others with minor injuries).
• “Anytime you hear the word 'back,' I think you get a little bit worried... That's not a good sign for a kid who needs to spend this summer in the gym.” (12:50, Scott)

5. Measurements Matter

• Corey's on-the-ground recon at the weigh-in station spotted:
  • Malte Gustafsson officially at 6'4.5”
  • Gavin McKenna “came in at five eleven and a quarter”
  • Viggo Bjork “five nine on the dot”
  • Size discrepancies or losses could affect draft spots (“Tommy Blyle... was visibly disappointed when he came in at 5:10.75.” (16:05, Scott))

6. Where Will These Kids Play Next Year?

• Major news: Daxson Rudolph confirms college commitment to Denver.
• Several top prospects (Ruck, Mathis Preston, Tommy Blyle, Seamus Ignativicius) making decisions between returning to CHL/Europe/college.
• “That's going to become an increasing story with, with a lot of these kids. They’ve got big, big decisions to make here.” (19:55, Scott)

7. Notable Prospect Risers and Fallers

• Maxime Sokolovsky: Big, raw defenseman strongly suspected to go first round after combine buzz.
• Nicholas Aram Olsson & Mathis Preston: Wingers who did exceedingly well athletically—may have nudged into first-round territory.

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NHL Discussion: Stanley Cup Finals & Award Voting

8. Stanley Cup Finals Observations: Carolina vs. Vegas

• The hosts observe a high-skill, relentless (but not overly bitter) series.
• “Just watching the games, just really impressed by the level of tenacity on both teams, the level of the pace, the skill.” (20:44, Corey)

9. Jordan Staal Selke Snubs

• Discussion on why Carolina’s Jordan Staal doesn’t get more defensive award love.
• “I know his offensive numbers are not great, but man, like he's... a difference maker.” (20:44, Corey)
• Max and Scott confirm he’s been on some of their recent ballots but note voters lean toward two-way stars with bigger point totals.

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In-Depth: Scout & Exec Confidential Article Discussion

(Starts 28:33)

10. Gavin McKenna Debate (Is He a True Franchise Talent?)

• Polarized scout quotes: Some question McKenna’s impact in tough games (“our guys would be so excited to play against him”), others compare his upside to Patrick Kane or Nikita Kucherov.
• The debate is over “what the, the realistic outcome for him is really defines the debate.” (29:20, Corey)

11. Ivar Stenberg’s Range

• Similar concerns raised about Stenberg as a less dynamic, below-average sized winger. Cited as potentially sliding more than public boards expect.
• “...when teams get to meetings and they describe a smaller winger who isn't dynamic to their GMs, he will start moving down lists...” (31:56, Max quoting scout)

12. Defensemen: Smiths, Karls, Verhoff, Rudolph

• Some teams view Albert Smiths as a top-two talent, others dismiss him as “vanilla with the puck”.
• “If the draft order had been slightly different, I think we'd be talking about different names in the top four, in the top two, in the top five based on people's preferences.” (37:38, Corey)

13. Tynan Lawrence's Slide

• Once seen as a top pick, now a 50/50 to even crack the top 10.
• “...was quite good towards the end of the year college. But his last two games... were excellent... probably puts him more like 10 to 15, I think if I was doing a mock draft today.” (39:04, Corey & 39:50, Scott)

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Trade Rumors: Dylan Larkin on the Move?

(Starts 43:05)

14. Detroit’s Conundrum with Larkin

• Max and Corey analyze potential trade packages for Red Wings captain Dylan Larkin, referencing past deals for comp.
• Max gives Larkin a less than 20% chance of remaining a Red Wing:

  “It's a non-zero chance, but it's not high.” (44:02, Max)

15. Trade Scenarios & Realism

• Minnesota, Utah, Anaheim, Florida, Tampa Bay mentioned as suitors, each with drawbacks about fit or asset packages.
• Their consensus: It’s almost impossible for Detroit to win a Larkin trade in talent; a retool or even re-rebuild may be inevitable.

Notable Realism:

“If you subtract Dylan Larkin... I don't see a path forward.” (51:34, Scott)

16. Assessing the Red Wings' Rebuild So Far

• Detroit’s mistakes seen as “mistakes of cautiousness and conservatism”, not catastrophic whiffs.
• “I don't think you can look at this team and say they've made like some really glaring blunders as a management group... They’ve just like really lacked that one or two moves. Really just one or two. I feel like that could have put them over the top.” (55:27, Corey)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the ‘Chalk’ Top Four:
  “Every mock draft I see has some variation of those four players going in the top four.” (04:40, Corey)

• On Gavin McKenna’s Ceiling:
  “There is a realistic chance he's Patrick Kane or Nikita Kucherov and hands are that special.” (29:13, Scout via Corey)

• On Smiths’ Polarizing Reputation:
  “I think McKenna goes one... The conversation for Smith starts at two.” (37:09, executive via Max)

• On Larkin’s Future in Detroit:
  “If you hyper fixate on centers... there’s not that many center prospects out there who are clearly better than what the Red Wings already have in Casper and Danielson.” (47:04, Max)

• On Detroit’s Need for a Home Run:
  “They’ve just like really lacked that one or two moves. Really just one or two. I feel like that could have put them over the top.” (57:08, Corey)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:00–01:38 – Ads and show start
• 01:38–06:10 – Combine overview; consensus top four
• 06:10–09:21 – Deep dive on Chase Reed and combine interview standouts
• 09:21–12:40 – Players rising or falling ("combine winners," Sokolovsky, Preston)
• 12:40–16:29 – Measurements, weight, and on-ice test concerns
• 16:29–19:55 – Commitments and development paths for new draftees
• 19:55–25:34 – Stanley Cup Final talk; Jordan Staal Selke debate
• 28:33–41:46 – In-depth discussion about Corey’s Scout Confidential article; draft prospects’ reputations and volatility
• 43:05–57:40 – Dylan Larkin trade speculation and Red Wings team-building strategy

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Final Thoughts

This episode delivers a high-level yet detailed look at how NHL teams synthesize information from the Combine—balancing analytic, athletic, and character elements. The conversation illustrates how much ambiguity and subjectivity still remains, especially once you get past the consensus at the very top. From surprise risers to how off-ice interviews might trip up certain "sure things" and into real-world implications for NHL franchises like Detroit, the show packs in insight for fans, analysts, and prospect wonks alike.

Transcript

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[Max Boltman]

This is the athletic hockey show prospect series. Hey everybody. Max Boltman here alongside the Athletics, Corey Prominen and Scott Wheeler for another episode episode of the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect series. I know we're not on our usual day this week, but it's for a good reason. The NHL draft combine was last week and Scott and Corey, you guys were both there in Buffalo. Corey, let's start with this. Let's start broad. What did you learn over four or five days in Buffalo?

[Corey Prominen]

Oh, other than I didn't learn this Buffalo, but I learned that Scott looks very dapper today.

[Max Boltman]

That's right.

[Scott Wheeler]

I got a wedding to get to here. We're recording between the the ceremony this morning and the the party tonight. So.

[Corey Prominen]

But at the combine I think everyone's main interest is the top couple of picks and, and mainly how is this draft going to go And I don't think I can answer that today as we record this on on June 7th precisely. But talking to a lot of people there, kind of getting a general sense of how people think it's going to go I think talking to a lot of scouts, executives, agents, I think most people expect the top four picks in some order to be the two dynamic wingers, Gavin McKenna and Ivar Stenberg. The center Caleb Malhotra from Brantford and defenseman Chase Areid from the Sioux. Can't guarantee what order those top four are going to go in. Obviously that seems to be the emerging consensus is those are the four players. So who's going to take who? I think Toronto likes all four of those players and has done a lot of homework on all four of those players. I think though almost everybody I talk to in Buffalo believes they will take McKenna with the first pick that we get to San Jose too. Who are they going to take? Will they take Stenberg? Will they take a defenseman? I think most people do expect them to take a defenseman. I think most expect that defenseman to be Reed. I don't think that's settled. I think they're doing a lot of work on Carson Carls. I think they're doing a lot of work on Keaton Verhoff and and on Stenberg. I don't think that's settled but I think most expect just like we did in that scouted exact mock to be one two McKenna then Reed does feel like Malhotra to Vancouver is a thing. I don't know if that's a done deal but. But I feels like it's moving in that direction. And then I think Chicago would take whichever of those four players are left, whether it's. I think yeah, I think. I think in the eyes of a lot of teams, Chase Reed separated himself a little bit from the rest of those D and I think they would probably still do that because he's the clear best player available at four. Then we get past four because I feel like we've that's been kind of the chalk four that has emerged in a lot of our conversations. I feel like every mock draft I see has some variation of those four players going in the top four. So I think a lot of people are wondering okay, what about the Rangers, what about Calgary? What about Winnipeg and Seattle and Florida? I think then 6 to 10 again variation of this. I think we're probably going to see a run of defenseman. I think you're going to see Carson Carls, Albert Smith, Keaton Verhoff, multi Gustafsson kind of go very quickly in that second half of the lottery range. Does feel like Viggo Bjork, the center from your guarded has worked his way into that conversation too. I think he's made himself. I think he's in the conversation with a lot of those teams picking in that 6 to 12 range right now. It does feel like of that next group of defensemen after Reid, it does feel like Carl's has the most love in the league right now. So if I was handicapping who's the most likely to go first, that is to the Rangers, I think it would be Carl's. But I feel like there's still a lot of conversations to be had. And the fact that Carl's had to skip testing, I believe it was due to some lingering concussion symptoms. I think that's stuff that people are going to look into. I don't believe it's believed to be that serious, but it's that these are all just kind of minor conversations happening in the coming days towards the draft.

[Scott Wheeler]

I don't think from everything I heard this week, I don't think Carl's gets past five, six. And I think there's a chance that he goes two or four. Like I think San Jose and Chicago are both strongly considering Carson.

[Max Boltman]

All right, lot to unpack there here. The thing that stood out to me most, Corey, was you saying, you know, it's this group of four and the only defenseman in that obviously being Reed. I feel like we've talked about it as a cluster. I know you've had Reed ranked as your top player. You mentioned some separation though. Where do you think that separation is coming from with Chase Reed? From this cluster of defensemen who we've kind of talked about intertwined all cycle?

[Corey Prominen]

I feel like with Reed, you look at him and he has no clear issue in his game and he checks every box. I feel like with Verhoff and Smith, some teams are going to have questions on the offense. I feel like with Rudolph, they're going to have questions on how competitive he is and how good a defender he is. Thinking with Gusison, I think you're going to have some minor questions on the, on the offense there. Carl's as well, I don't think is a premier puck mover despite his great production this season. Um, but at least the offense is good enough. I think he's emerging to the conversation with Reed, but I think with Reed you get a guy who's been measuring at the combine of six, two and a half, great skater, great puck mover, great all around player. I mean, you know, he looks like the kind of defenseman that goes 1, 2, 3, like that's, that's the kind of prospect he is.

[Scott Wheeler]

I'll Say too he was one of the guy and we can get to some of the interviews and guys who stood out. Reid worked the room this week like he was someone I heard from multiple teams was, was very, very impressive in the interview process.

[Max Boltman]

So let's go to that. I mean, that's a big part of what this kind of week is. The four or five days. Teams aren't really using this to assess prospects on their athleticism so much as they want to get to know them and they want to see how guys react. We see all the silly exercises and questions teams ask leak out. Scott but who do you think kind of helped themselves and did anyone hurt themselves in that process this week I

[Scott Wheeler]

got mixed reports when I started asking that question around to a handful of scouts who I know sort of interviewed the top guys in the top range. The one guy that I got mixed reports back on in terms of the interview process was Smits. He's a pretty unique kid. We've spoken to him over the course of this year dating back to the world juniors. He's got a bit of a. I don't want to say arrogance to him, but there's a bit of a sort of cockiness to him, if you will. And I, I heard from multiple teams that he did not do as well in interviews as Carl's did, as Reed did, as those other D did. All of those kids are, are very, very impressive. And I think Smith isn't for everybody. Like he's gonna, he's going to rub some people the wrong way. So he was one of the guys amongst the. There were others that I heard sort of struggled in interviews. Samuelidari was a guy who. There are people who have sort of pretty significant concerns about his fitness level and his weight and there were others that, that sort of didn't do well. But Smits was a guy who. I had a couple of people text me like, I don't, I don't know if I like this kid kind of thing.

[Corey Prominen]

I feel like I have typically found when guys have elite compete, they tend to be the kind of, you know, high character players that people gravitate towards. And thus it doesn't really surprise me that both Carson Karls and Viggo Bjork I heard interviewed very well with teams. I think, you know, I think Bjork in particular, I think there was a lot of interest in him and I think he's another guy. There was a lot of positive things coming out about him throughout the interview process. After a very strong end to the season on the Other front, I think Ty and Lawrence got challenged pretty significantly on how his season went on his decision to leave junior and go to college and how poorly it went. I think there was some difficult interviews was my understanding. That doesn't mean I don't think that he's not sliding, but I think, you know, he had to deal with some adversity this season and I think there were some, you know, hard questions asked of him about his decision making process and ultimately why he struggled so much at the college level.

[Max Boltman]

And you want, I mean, when we talk about some of these interviews, the, the direct tie, Scott is about rising and falling. Like who are the guys who you think, whether it's based on the interviews or whether it's only just kind of coming out via the combine of guys who are going to go a little higher than maybe we've talked about them. Guys who are going to go a little bit lower than we've talked about

[Scott Wheeler]

them less on the combine. But Maxime Sokolovsky, the 6 foot 7, 200 nearly 240 pounds was his listing defenseman with the Lond Knights was a hot topic for just about every team at the combine and a real focal point for a lot of teams. I think Sokolovsky goes first round and that's saying a lot for a kid who just played his first year of high level hockey in the ohl, who struggled especially in the first half of the season in the ohl, but who has a very unique package in that. You see him, we saw him around the hotel a few times. He is a mutant. He is an impressive, impressive sort of physical specimen and on top of that he can skate and he came along really quickly and he finished really strong and I think that was important. Corey and I had some conversations with people at U18 worlds as well. So this is a conversation that has been happening for a little while here. But I like, I think Sokolovsky is going to go like early 20s here and be that sort of rising D. So he was one that sort of is on everybody's mind. There were two who I think two wingers that we've talked about over the course of the season to varying degrees who I think were kind of on the bubble of the first round sort of day two, early day two guys that did really well in testing that caught my eye. Nicholas Aram Olsson, the Norwegian winger and Mathis Preston of the Vancouver Giants. Both did really, really, really well in testing. Not that that can move the needle in any significant way, but I do think if if you were a team that was comfortable taking one of those kids in the first round, you're probably a little bit more comfortable taking a Preston or an Aaron Olsen in the first round, coming out of it just because of how athletic they looked in and sort of the quick twitch, the, the agility stuff, the, the vertical jump, all of that stuff. Like these kids are natural, natural impressive athletes.

[Max Boltman]

Not everyone did all the testing. I mean, Carson Karls I don't think participated in the testing. Marcus Ruck I think had to, he was injured during it or had to tweak something during it.

[Scott Wheeler]

Yeah. And anytime you hear the word back, I think you get a little bit worried after what we've seen with the combine over the last few years. Liam said that Marcus had been dealing with a back injury prior. And then in the horizontal jump tweak, we saw him coming off and when he was walking through like he, he actually looked like he was visibly uncomfortable and in pain after, after it happened. That is not a good sign for a kid who needs to spend this summer in the gym. Like I do think that really matters this. It's been a huge talking point with them how little muscle those two guys have and how important it was going to be for them to get non interrupted summer in the gym to get stronger. And now that may be in a little bit of jeopardy here for Marcus. Obviously Liam's fine, but there, there, there's a lot, there's a little bit of that happening. Like Belches didn't participate in a couple of the tests, the heavy weightlifting test because of his clavicle. It sounds like he's getting close, but he didn't participate in some of the testing. Xavier Villeneuve crushed, absolutely crushed the testing that he did participate in, but didn't participate in a couple of the events because of his hips which had been bothering him all year. So there's, there's some guys who have some injury issues here heading into the draft that teams are going to be factoring into their decision making.

[Max Boltman]

There's also Corey, I mean when I've been there with you in the past, I know you spend a lot of time right at that first station double checking things. It's a good place to watch from. That's where everyone weighs in and measures sometimes these measurements, these final measurements can, you know, that half inch make fun of it or not. It can matter to teams.

[Corey Prominen]

Yeah, a couple that caught my eye. Malte Gustafsson coming in at six, four and a half. That's a guy. So I think we thought in the year he was closer to six four. Now he's six four and a half. You know, can he get to six five? I think that's something when you look at the way he skates too. Like, I think that's really intriguing for teams picking high in the draft. You know, White Collins official measurement comes in at 6:1. As a guy who forgot the exact measurement he came into the program at, but I think he was measuring five eight, five five. Yeah. You know, so him his official measurement coming in at 6:1. Very notable. There's a couple of guys who we never got measurements for all season. Usually these are guys who are playing pro hockey who don't have. So NHL Central scouting will do these measurements at inter major international events like the U18s in the Halinka at their showcase events like the OHL Top Prospects Game or the CHL NTP Prospects game. So we were waiting for official measurements on Gavin McKenna, on Ivar Stenberg, on Viggo Bjork. We didn't get one for Stenberg, at least not yet to my knowledge because he didn't start participating in testing because he was sick. McKenna came in at five eleven and a quarter. Viggo Bjork, five nine on the dot. So there was no, you know, major variations there from what we kind of expected. Ilya Morozov 6 Three in a quarter two, which I think is what we kind of expected beforehand too. No major changes there. Probably one guy who kind of came down a little bit which may hurt his draft stock is, is Tommy Blyle, who we thought was when he was last measured by Central was at 511 and three quarters. He. His official measurement here is 511 and a quarter. So that 60 moves to 5 11. That end of the.

[Scott Wheeler]

Was also visibly disappointed when he came in at 5:10.75.

[Corey Prominen]

Yeah, you know, these are things that I think can be of secondary importance. You're talking about late first versus earlier mid second kind of thing.

[Scott Wheeler]

Yeah, Plant and Valentini both importantly going from 59 to 5 10. If I recall correctly.

[Corey Prominen]

They're like mid round picks though.

[Max Boltman]

Yeah, yeah, it matters though. I mean it matters for all these guys. And I, you know, people can joke about, you know, Chris had the line put away the tape measure, you know, a couple years ago. But these things can matter. And you know, Bjork was, I think the one that I was the most curious to see. Can you. Could it be five nine and a half and you could call them five ten. Ultimately it's to your point, Corey, like For the guys who are really this good, they're going to go really high, but they're little details that matter. Scott One other thing I want to talk about is becoming more and more of a part of the Combine beat and that is figuring out where some of these guys are going to play next season. The big news out of the week was was Daxson Rudolph and his college commitment to Denver. But what else did you learn this week about the college commitments? Any other player movement considerations that could come for next season?

[Scott Wheeler]

Yeah, I had a list of like 10 guys I wanted to pull at some point over the course of the week, whether it was at the hotel or on testing day, just to get them one on one and get a concrete answer on some of their decision making. For for next year the Rucks have made the decision after touring between the end of Medicine Hat season and the Combine. After touring some colleges, the Rocks have made the decision to return to Medicine Hat. Mathis Preston also briefly considered college but is going to return to the whl. The week started with Dax and Rudolph sort of confirming his commitment to the University of Denver. I grabbed Seamus Ignativicius because I was curious on his status in the nl. Ignatovicius is obviously a pretty unique story out of Lithuania. Potential sort of more likely early day two guy but wouldn't shock me if he was a late first. He still has one more year on his NL contract but he sort of made it clear to me that he that he has an option, that he has an out in that contract and that he's going to discuss with whichever team drafts and whether he should come to North America. I asked Marcus Nordmark the same thing. He's obviously an import pick of the London Knights. Nordmark has told me he has two years left on his contract with Jurgarden for but that he has told Jurgarden and was telling teams in the interview process this week that if if he's not in a top nine role on the SHL team that he will likely try to work something out with them so that he can go play in London at some point next year. He is going to start the year in Jurgarden. Novotny would seemed cagey on it but I, I, I got the sense from Adam Novotny that going back to Peterborough isn't in the plans. And then the last big one was Blyle who I know MSU tried to get in for next year and have left a spot open for hoping that he would come. There were Tim some teams when we talked about the interviews, I probably should have mentioned him. There were some teams I heard that were pretty critical of Tommy's decision to go back and he held strong. He's. He wants to go back to Moncton next year. They came up short of winning a QMGHL title. I think he probably feels that with Chase Reed coming into to MSU that he doesn't have the opportunity that he was looking for. So Blyle, against some of the advice of some NHL clubs who would have liked to see him take the step and play college hockey next year, Blyle seems pretty firm on, on going back to Moncton. So that's going to become an increasing story with, with a lot of these kids. They're, they're, they've got big, big decisions to make here.

[Corey Prominen]

Not one of the players that eligible this year. But just talking to people around hockey, it does feel like Glenn dupont's commitment is down to Michigan. It will be down in Michigan and Michigan State likely. And I think most people are betting on Michigan.

[Scott Wheeler]

Yes.

[Corey Prominen]

Being the one who will people to put together the most attractive offer for him in terms of nil money, ice time, etc.

[Scott Wheeler]

I think it's going to be Michigan.

[Max Boltman]

All right, so that's the combine. Were you guys able to catch any of the Stanley cup final Saturday night? I know you were traveling back obviously, but it was quite the game if you were able to see any of it. Corey.

[Corey Prominen]

I was actually at the airport for the duration of it between some delayed flights.

[Scott Wheeler]

I arrived at home and pulled up my phone and Marner had just scored the hat trick. And then I went and tucked the kids into bed and gave them a kiss good night and I came back and they'd scored three of the four goals to, to sort of mount the comeback. So I, I really started watching at 4, 3 and, and finished it out from there.

[Max Boltman]

Yeah, well, they, if you went up and took the kids to bed, those, those three goals could have all been scored in the time just getting them up the stairs was a ridiculously fast flurry for a series of the Carolina Hurricanes especially. It's been amazing.

[Corey Prominen]

Yeah, I really impressed by the level of talent on both teams. Like I know there's, I mean all. Some of those goals were lucky and some of them were high skill plays. The, the, some of those, you know, the challenge goals and whatnot. But just, just watching the games, just really impressed by the level of tenacity on, on both of those teams. The level of the pace, the skill. Like these are. I know Vegas didn't have the best regular season, but their underlying numbers were strong. And I feel like when they have their whole group on the ice, like these are two elite, elite teams, deep teams, teams with high end talent. And it's, you know, I think this is, you know, a very deserving Stanley cup final and seeing, you know, some of the best hockey players in the world going at it. One question for you guys. I don't vote on the awards. I know you do. Why does Jordan Stahl knock out more love when it comes to the major awards? Because just, just watching him in these playoffs, like he, I know his offensive numbers are not great, but man, like he's, every time I've watched him in these playoffs, he's a difference maker. Like he's one of their best players and it feels like, like he deserves to be in these sulky conversations. And I know he doesn't have the points, but like, like he's, he's just been awesome.

[Max Boltman]

Scott, why don't you go ahead first. I'm trying to pull up some of my old ballots, see if I've got Jordan Stall on there.

[Scott Wheeler]

He's been on my ballot over the years. He was not in my top five this year, but he was among the eight or nine guys that I considered for, for my ballot this year and has been on my ballot before. I think part of the problem he faces is that despite it being a defensive award, I think a lot of people weigh fairly or unfairly way sort of the, the ability to do it at both ends. And so you get the, you get the premium offensive guys who also check. You get the Suzuki and the Kopitars over the years and Bergeron and Datsu. Can those guys who, who are also like that, that 70 point player that, that Stahl has just never, never risen to.

[Max Boltman]

Yeah, it looks like I had him third in 2024 and second in 2023. Corey. So I think I'm on, I'm on the same page with you there. But I do agree, I think as he's gotten older into his career, maybe it's gotten a little easier to overlook him. I also think the Carolina system, we talked about this last year with some of the Edmonton guys and it can be hard to know what to do with the Bouchards and the Nugent Hopkins because, you know, the structure that they're kind of operating within. And I think Carolina's guys can, fair or unfair, fall victim to that because we know it's such a good defensive overall picture there.

[Scott Wheeler]

I think it's the same challenge that Sam Reinhart faces playing with Barkov, too. Like, people are just reluctant to give Sam Reinhardt more credit.

[Corey Prominen]

I guess I just feel like they're the best. They're the best possession team in the league. He gets all the tough matchups. He's on their. One of their. He's on the top power play unit right now, too. Like, there's just. Like I said, I'm not a Carolina expert. I don't have it, like, deep dived on Jordan Stahl in a very long time. But just watching him in these playoffs, like, to me, he's been one of the five to 10 most impactful players consistently throughout this entire postseason.

[Max Boltman]

I agree with you. Like I said, he's been in my top three two of the last four years. So he's a force. And there's a ton of the best defensive forwards in the world in this series. And I think there's a lesson in that as well.

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Right?

[Max Boltman]

I mean, Mark Stone is in this series. Jack Eichel is in this series. Jordan Stahl is in this series. Mitch Marner is in this series. And Mitch Marner is not just doing it with the defensive end. I mean, all the production that everyone always wanted in Toronto, it's coming out all at once like a fire hydrant, Scott, right now.

[Scott Wheeler]

Yeah, honestly. And one of my big takeaways from this series and Corey kind of alluded to it with the talk of the skill plays off the top. But this series, for all the talk of playoff hockey and the way the game changes, this series has not been really played in the mud. Like, it hasn't been that violent, bitter. It's been physical, but it hasn't been that sort of violent, bitter hockey. Like, they're out there making plays. They're relentless. But I wouldn't call this sort of the typical series that we see at the end. And that speaks to the lead changes and some of the skill plays that we've seen made. But these teams are. Their rosters are built four lines deep. Like, there are guys, look. Look at what Brett Howden's done. Look at what that. That sort of stankhoven line has done. There are players up and down Darofayev, like, there are players up and down these lineups who can make skill plays. It's not just the stars anymore that have to carry that load while everybody else mucks it up.

[Corey Prominen]

I mean, also one thing is just Braden McNabb, like, warrior standing ovation for what he did last night, like, unbelievable.

[Max Boltman]

And for him to have a key play on one of the Marner goals too. You're never going to expect Braden McNabb to be making a big offensive play in the game, but if there was ever a moment for it to come out, that's a pretty darn good one.

[Corey Prominen]

And I know talking to people at the combine, they connected the dots from McNapp to multi Gustafson. If, in case that, if you wanted to just insert some draft talk into this conversation.

[Max Boltman]

Are you taking McNabb top 10 though? I mean, he's a great player.

[Corey Prominen]

He's two, two wins away from us, from two Stanley Cups. That's fair.

[Max Boltman]

That's fair. Not the only guy in the blue line. I get your point though, and I think Gustafson has a higher ceiling than personally, but it is a good, good tie in. Let's, let's put a pin in that right there. Take a quick break. We're going to come back, we're going to talk about Corey, an article that you had come out the same Scout Confidential, which I think dovetails really nicely with all this combine stuff. Be right back.

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[Max Boltman]

All right, we are back. And Corey, every year you put out one of my favorite articles to read in draft season. The Scout Confidential Scout and Exec Confidential with a lot of anonymous quotes from decision makers in the hockey world. And I think let's start at the very Top with Gavin McKenna because some of these quotes I think are very interesting. You know, one of the quotes here that I found interesting from, from a scout when things get tough, if that's the guy you're leaning on in the playoffs, our guys would be so excited to play against him. I would take Stenberg, Reed and Melholtra ahead of him. But you contrast that with other quotes, right? And, and this, this other scouting director says I get the concerns but there is a realistic chance he's Patrick Kane or Nikita Kucherov and hands are that special. It is hard to kind of square those two things. And yet that is the picture when you talk about Gavin McKenna.

[Corey Prominen]

Right. I feel like the debate with him has always been never been that the skill or the hockey sense has been debated, that the special offensive talent has been debated. I'll put it, you know, as how one guy told me at the combine it comes down to the really the player evaluation and the exact level of player you think you're getting. Think, you know, we, you know there's levels of ratings between Marner, Panarin, Kane and Kucherov, you know, and, or something, you know, below that it's and, and that's really with me that's something closer like Lucas Raymond or something like that. Like that's really the debate and figure out exactly what you're getting and what the, the realistic outcome for him is really defines the debate I want in the and the debate around McKenna and ultimately what Toronto or anyone else decides to do with him.

[Scott Wheeler]

Ironically enough, Lucas Raymond is the comp that Ivar Stenberg now uses for himself after he was using Tim Stutzler earlier in the year. So if we're talking about a floor for Gavin McKenna, of Ivar Stenberg or of Lucas Raymond and that's the player that Ivar Stenberg is using for himself, then I think you can potentially still come to the conclusion that Gavin McKenna is the better prospect.

[Corey Prominen]

Well, you're worth the floor. Is Alexi la Frontier more than anything else kind of thing. But I, but I get what you're saying.

[Scott Wheeler]

Yeah, I, I don't view that as the floor.

[Corey Prominen]

But is the, is there not like some overlap though the same age? Like you look at the dominance that Lafreniere had the world juniors at his age dominant play college. Obviously I think McKenna's ahead at the same age, but I think you can look back and like the late birth dates, the like the naughty super athletic profile and like you could connect the dots there a little bit.

[Scott Wheeler]

McKenna was what, 15, 20 points more productive last year than Stenberg was at the same age in the in a lesser junior league.

[Corey Prominen]

I'm not talking about Rain, I'm not talking about Stenberg though. I'm talking about.

[Scott Wheeler]

Or Lafreniere.

[Corey Prominen]

But can. Yeah, I think he's ahead but, but I, I, it doesn't like I think you can suggest.

[Scott Wheeler]

I just think he's way more reasonably close. Yeah, I, I don't the sense would

[Max Boltman]

be a different level. Right. I mean you might actually even just

[Scott Wheeler]

the feel on the puck. Yeah. Bigger and heavier and I feel like

[Corey Prominen]

there's some revisionist history going on here. I think we can go back to what we said about left frontier within the word game breaker elite stick skill elite offensive creativity. Like that was, that was the scan report on the frontier coming out of junior.

[Scott Wheeler]

I don't.

[Max Boltman]

It's hard, it's hard to go back.

[Scott Wheeler]

I don't know if I described him

[Max Boltman]

that way but I, I thought too though like you guys mentioned Stenberg and there was a scout quote here on Stenberg that I think was interesting. People talk about this guy like he's a slam dunk to go one or two. It reminds me of William Eklund's hype. He was in everyone's top five, then he goes seven. When teams get to meetings and they describe a smaller winger who isn't dynamic to their GMs, he will start moving down lists. Now, I think we would all put Ivar Stenberg above William Eklund, but that characterization, Corey, I think is why, you know, when we talk about this, we've talked a lot about Ivar Stenberg being available at 4 to the Chicago Blackhawks and there's been a lot of pushback that's like, no, this guy's going to go to. Why would San Jose pass on him? Why would Vancouver pass on him? That's the answer to the question. Even if it is about size and positionality?

[Corey Prominen]

A little bit. Yeah. I think when teams are debating McKenna, I feel like everybody can rationalize. Even if they don't all agree or they don't love the player type, they can, they can see a path for him to be like 100 point scorer, to be a leading scorer in the league, to be a dominant offensive player. I think with Stenberg there is some real fears here. You're drafting like a 60 to 80 point guy and not that that's not still a really good player, especially with how competitive he is. But if you have the bullet, a one one, is that really what you want? If you have it at 1 2, do you want a 5, 11, 70 point winger? Would you rather get like a big minutes or a big mid center? Now the people who love Stenberg might say he can be 80, 85 while providing, you know, tilting the ice, being a playoff type caliber player. But I think that's the debate on him right now is like, given he is not that McKenna Dynamo with the puck and he's not super athletic, he's not huge, he's not a blazer. Like it's. You're really just betting that this, this compete level in his game is just so good that he's going to, you know, become the first or second best player in the draft. I think that's for some people, it's a big bet.

[Scott Wheeler]

I am a little surprised when we constantly hear Stenberg discussed as if he's small, like he's £185 and five'11 at 18 years old. There are tons of players playing in the 180s in the NHL that are stars on their team. There are players playing in the 170s in the NHL Stars on their team. Like I do not. And the way he plays, the way he gets up, up and under, sticks I do not view Stenberg. There are other things I think you could look to in terms of pure upside, but I do not view his size as at all an issue nor the way he plays.

[Max Boltman]

Is it fair to say though like there's a difference in talking about being one of the stars on your team and picking someone one or like if you're picking someone one or two, you expect them to be your best player within a number of years, period. Like not one of your best players.

[Corey Prominen]

Your best player and I think if you're, if Stanberg's us, you know, a 70 or 80 point winger that's still among. Probably is one of your best players. The question is can you build a championship team around that? Like that's, I think that's the debate. Or would you rather pick a 22 midnight defenseman who's at the 40 to 50 point range but plays penalty kill, power play, heavy even strength like. Or a center like Malhotra who probably project to be that 18, 19 minute night centerman, power play, penalty kill, etc. I think that's, that's where the stress points really come in.

[Scott Wheeler]

We're currently watching a team in the Stanley cup finals in Carolina that is built around a bunch of 60 to 80 point players and a bunch of

[Max Boltman]

40 point really good two way defensemen. Right. Like, and that's so, so it's which one is driving that bus? I think that's the question teams are going to keep coming back to.

[Corey Prominen]

Yeah, I would probably say that. I know they haven't been their best players in the playoffs, but I mean, I mean Ajo, Jarvis, Slavin, Miller to me are their best players and there's

[Max Boltman]

a little bit of both flavors here. So if you're a team, it's, it's which, which do you give the credit to? Are you giving it more to the Slavens and the Millers? Are you giving it more to the a host Dankovin Jarvis types?

[Corey Prominen]

I know we didn't talk about this in the, when we were doing the Jordan Stall thing earlier, but Keandre Miller, man, like is he, he's got to be standing like he's probably doing what Seth Jones did for himself last spring where I know we're, we're not in, in an international cycle now, but I feel like if there was a international tournament coming up in six months, he'd be in the Team USA conversation right now.

[Max Boltman]

Yeah. Okay, let's go to the D on, on this class, Corey. And it's a. Opinions are kind of all over the place. And we could probably do this with each individual player. I want to focus on a guy that I don't even think we've really talked about enough. And that's Albert Smith's. Just to give people a sense for the range here. And Corey, I'm sorry that I'm reading so many of these quotes. I do want everyone to go read this article. I promise you, I'm getting to less than 10% of the stuff that's in here. There's one executive saying, I think McKenna goes one in. The conversation for Smith starts at two. So that high up another scout I have Smith's at one reminds me of more at cider. But then there's the detractors, right? There's scouting directors questioning the hockey iq, kind of throwing Sam Dickinson around, which is a good player, but more toward the back of the top 10. And executive, I don't see the hype with Smiths. He's a good player, but he's vanilla with the puck. Like, this is how you get these kind of dramatic results on draft day, Corey, is that you have some teams that have reservations and, you know, maybe are pegging a guy around 8 or 9 and maybe that's where the public sees them. But if you have one team that believes this guy's more at cider and that team picks in the right spot, it can be a very different result when the time comes.

[Corey Prominen]

Yeah, and only so much I can say on that front. But this is a draft and I kind of hinted at the top of the article talking to people that say they see this. The draft is a group. There's not big drop offs. There's a group of seven players for some, group of nine players for some that are all really close. If the lot. This was kind of similar to how the 23 draft would have gone, minus Celebrini, that if the draft order had been slightly different, I think we would have seen significantly different results in how that 2 to 8 would have gone in 23. And in this year's draft, if the draft order had been slightly different, I think we'd be talking about different names in the top four, in the top two, in the top five based on people's preferences. You know, I'm not hearing Smith's as much with the teams with the high picks currently, but if the draft order had gone differently, there is a chance we were hearing his name more. We've been hearing Verhoff's name more, hearing Dax and Rudolph's name more. It's that that is Kind of how some people in the league view this crop of defensemen. And there is very much significantly different preferences.

[Max Boltman]

One other guy I wanted to ask you about from this and you alluded to him in segment one is Tynan Lawrence. And for a guy who we at one point were talking about at the very upper part of this class, what do you think the odds are that Tynan Lawrence goes top 10 this year?

[Corey Prominen]

50. 50, I would guess in that the strong play of Viggo Bjorkt and the year in the SHL and at the world championships I think will appeal to those who are really eyeing a center high in the draft as teams tend to eye centers and defensemen primarily. I think he's worked his way into that top group that I feel like people can feel more comfortable with A center like him high still pretty very, you know, very reasonable that three centers go in the top 10 and then Lawrence would be in that conversation. But I feel like the way he ended his year, he actually was quite good towards the end of the year college. But his last two games.

[Scott Wheeler]

His last two games were excellent.

[Corey Prominen]

Yeah, he was their BU's best player by a significant margin, I thought. But then his U18s was fine. Not great. I think probably puts him more like 10 to 15, I think if I was doing a mock draft today.

[Scott Wheeler]

Yeah, coincidentally you said 10 max. And I wonder specifically at about 11 with St. Louis.

[Max Boltman]

Well, it's interesting. He's another guy where you look at these quotes, Corey, and you can really see guys who really feel like, oh, you're overthinking this. Don't throw away everything from the early part of the season from his underage year just because of what happened in a couple months span in college. But then you have other people who I think are just pointing out some of these flaws and division. Does he see it well enough? Does he make it enough happen?

[Corey Prominen]

Well, yeah, I've seen the chirps. I've gotten the trips on my from text and I'm sure fans have chirped me like, you had this guy, you know, really high at one point. How is he always 16? Like did that much chirp change? And I'm like, well, you know, people don't realize this, but that happens with other players too. Like, you know, Rubric. I had five top five. At what point he's in the 80s and the 90s. You know, there's plenty of other players this year that I've dropped significantly or raised significantly. We're on the R. We weren't talking about Malhotra, you know, you know, six to nine months ago, you, even if the information is in 50 games worth of new information, we don't usually get that much sometimes. So you, you do what you can with the information you get. And it wasn't just a, you know, a handful of college games. It was, you know, Pete played every, pretty much every game for BU in the second half and he played U18s and he played Hlinka, all of which, you know, didn't leave a great taste in my mouth. And so I think that that's, you got to assess the whole body of work.

[Max Boltman]

A lot of good stuff in that one. I would highly encourage, encourage everyone to go read Corey's 2026 NHL Draft Confidential. Let's take a quick break right there. Be right back.

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[Max Boltman]

Depending on eligibility, you can get up to a $250 cash advance. Terms and conditions apply. All right, we are back and I'm gonna spend the last few minutes of the show today talking about some NHL news. Not typically. Mainly our wheelhouse. Although we did talk cup final a little bit earlier. But I want to talk about Dylan Larkin because I think it dovetails a lot with some of these prospect conversations now.

[Corey Prominen]

Yeah, and Max, you and I had a piece go up today talking about what a potential trade packages can look like for Larkin, we, you know, it's always tough to construct these because there's never a perfect comp. But we looked at, you know, past, you know, highly thought of centers that were trading recent years, Ryan O'Reilly, Jack Eichel to get some inspiration for what packages could look like. Before we get to that, just to start, you know, if you had to handicap a percentage that Dylan Larkins, Detroit red wing on September 16, what would you put the percentage at? Right now I would say like less

[Max Boltman]

than 20%, but it's not zero. And I think people are taking it like it's zero. I'm not saying that it is, you know, exactly 20, but I'm just, I'm trying to ballpark here. Like it's, it's a non zero chance. And I think the way I've put it in a story is I would imagine that's inversely proportional to the size of the list that he gives the Red Wings to work from. Pierre LeBrun has reported that right now it's a short list. I don't know. I mean, there's a lot of wiggle room within that. Right. Like, there's, I think, a big difference between Dylan saying, hey, there's four teams I'd go to, there's six teams, eight teams, whatever. Really, I, I think it, it makes a huge difference because if you only have a small cluster of teams and if we assume based on the Red Wing state, right. They, they've been losing, they haven't been in the playoffs in 10 years. I imagine if Dylan Larkin wants to be traded, he wants to be traded to somewhere that's going to win. And the problem is like, those are not the teams that typically have the, the assets that, you know, can, I mean, could you match the bar of an O'Reilly trade? You could probably squeak to it, but it's not going to be the one that like knocks the Red Wing socks off, you know, and, and I think that's when you have five years on your deal. The Red Wings are going to have an incentive to make sure they get something that they like here. And I think the more that opens up, if you could get Utah, if you could get Anaheim into that conversation, all of a sudden I think there's teams with assets. But if you're talking about Vegas, Dallas, Colorado, these teams that have already depleted their farm systems chasing it, it gets trickier.

[Corey Prominen]

Yeah. So let's get to the packages we kind of put together and I'll start with Minnesota because Minnesota has been an often Talked about team, a team desperate for a premier center. We had, I think, difficulty trying to construct a package that would make sense for both sides for two reasons. One is that Minnesota just made a similar type of trade for Quinn Hughes, moving several premium young players in that deal. And arguably their best young asset is a goaltender in Jesper Walstedt. And Detroit's dealing with their own goalie situation there, where they're trying to figure out how, what to do with this whole Trey Augustine, Sebastian Kosa dynamic at the moment, it's tricky.

[Max Boltman]

And that's like, when I think of that one, it's like you got to get the best asset you can. So, yeah, you have John Gibson, you have Kosa, Pastava, Augustine, but if the best asset that you can get for Dylan Larkin turns out to be a goalie, you take the goalie and you figure out what other wheeling and dealing has to happen. So in ours, we sent Kosa back, I think as part of it, to round out the proposal. He also came with a couple of young forwards, Daniel Eurov and Charlie Stramel. And I think that would leave the Red Wing some decisions to make, obviously. But yeah, you could, you could trade one to Florida, you could try to trade one to Edmonton. Right. Like there are good teams that need goalies, Edmonton and Florida. I mean, Florida has the ninth pick and they're another team that we actually talked about because they tend to be a place players like to go. But yeah, you wheel and deal from there. I think everything has to be about what's the best return you can get if you hyper fixate on centers. Well, there's not that many center prospects out there who are clearly better than what the Red Wings already have in Casper and Danielson. I don't know how redundant you really need to get with a cluster there, Scott.

[Scott Wheeler]

No. And excuse me, because I haven't read this story, but did you guys consider Montreal in. In the equation? No.

[Max Boltman]

So the, the teams that we went through to start, I think are kind of the true contenders in desirable player states. So low tax states, you know, warm weather.

[Scott Wheeler]

Right.

[Max Boltman]

You know, American markets. Not to say that I would love to play in Montreal, but I'm just saying they're not. Typically, you don't see a lot of Americans on a small list having the Canadian teams. Montreal will be another one. I mentioned Utah and Anaheim. If Montreal is in the mix, that's a really good thing for Detroit because Montreal has assets.

[Scott Wheeler]

Well, and one of the things that came out of the combine, not directly out of the combine, because Fridge wasn't there. Was Fried reporting on the Matthew. The Matthew Nyes deal that fell through post deadline because they missed the deadline between the Montreal Canadiens and, and the Toronto Maple Leafs and their willingness by all accounts to include a player like Alexander Juratsky, to include multiple first round picks. There's Michael Hage there, there's David Reinbacker there. We know the need and desire after they played Oliver Kapanen at 2C for much of the year. We know that, that, that sort of finding a second center, not that, not that Dylan Larkin is even a second line center, but finding a second center that can play with Nick Suzuki and change the outlook of that team. Like, I think they're obviously the taxes are the taxes of it all, but from a pure hockey standpoint, from a opportunity to win standpoint, from a market, I mean, I think players love playing in Montreal. Montreal seems like a team that has the ammunition. Anaheim and Utah, to your point, would be in that same boat. They have the pieces to make that deal happen. But Montreal feels to me like it would be a more compelling destination if you're a Dylan Mark and then Anaheim or Utah.

[Corey Prominen]

Even when we were going through this piece, Max, I think when we got to Utah, we could see all the different ways they could make this work. I even think despite how great Dylan Larkin is, you know, an Olympian, premier play driving centerman, I think you would be really squeezing them to get either Dmitry Simyschev or Caleb De Noia into that deal. I think you're probably talking about some combination of Tjginla, Cole Boldwin, Daniel Boot, Maverick Lamoure. I know Utah has been trying. It's not. I don't know if it's been publicly reported, but I know like over the years I've heard Barrett Hayden's name thrown around in trade deals. Like, I think that's a reasonable name to come the other way to, to go center for center there. So that would make some sense to me. The one we got to that I thought was, do you value.

[Scott Wheeler]

Just curious, do you value Danoya more than Igina? Because I think I'm. I'm on the other side of that.

[Corey Prominen]

I think I would and I think they would. They just picked him fourth overall a year ago as a center. Like, I think they'd be that. I think they, I mean, they have

[Scott Wheeler]

a hard time letting Teach sixth overall the year prior and he's playing center.

[Corey Prominen]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't think he's an NHL center though. But

[Max Boltman]

I think Denoia would be just like that's. Like the one young center among the teams we evaluated that I was like, this is a path for to try to actually come out in a good spot from this. Like, I did not leave those proposals feeling really good about the position the Red Wings were in the way.

[Corey Prominen]

They the one, the one that I was really intrigued by was Tampa Bay because they don't have a lot of young premium assets, but they have two centers that had really good years. Connor Geeke was really good in the American League this year. He's one of the best young forwards I thought under 23 forwards in the American league that you have Sam O'Reilly who just had a monster year in the OHL. I don't know if they're not premier pro assets like a denoye would be, but they're really good players. And I think, like you said, Max is a little bit worried about redundancy. Like how close are they to Casper and Danielson and something along those lines. But I feel like, you know, Tampa has shown a lot of willingness to do what it takes to win in their window. With Kucherov and Sorelli at point and this window they have right now, I could see them put together a package with those guys that could be pretty desirable for Detroit. The most desirable, but one that I think could make a lot of sense for them.

[Max Boltman]

Scott, I want to start with your opinion on this just before we wrap here. Like, my big question in this is like, is this salvageable in any way for Detroit to remain or try to get like they're trying to snap a 10 year playoff drought here and their number one center wants out? To me, I look at that and say you're almost going to have to take a step back and retool, but is there a way to to salvage this in your eyes?

[Scott Wheeler]

I don't see a path forward. Like, we all love Mort Cider, we all love Lucas Raymond. There just isn't. We all love Simon Edmondson. I think Simon's a stud. I just don't know whether you have if you subtract Dylan Larkin and you're adding a young piece that's a couple years away, I don't know that the timeline any longer works with with those guys. And I don't know that Red, I mean, you know the market better than me, but are Red Wings fans even going to be prepared to hit a bit of it? Not that you have to go into a full and rebuild. They've got tons of young pieces, but maybe they do. And are Red Wings fans even going to be able to put up with that to put up with another four or five years and. And if the answer is no and the answer is to continue pursuing what they do have, maybe you, maybe you're just kicking the can down the road of three or four years from now having to make that difficult decision later than you than you should have. So I don't know like it's. If it's almost impossible to win the trade in a player for player swap, like you're not getting an equivalent player to Dylan Larkin back. So if you're prioritizing youth pieces or Barrett Hayton and a youth piece, I don't know where that leaves them. Like I just don't know how you, how you pull out of that and how you sell it to Moritz Sider and Lucas Raymond long term either.

[Corey Prominen]

How many years ago did Eigel get traded?

[Max Boltman]

I think it was 2021.

[Corey Prominen]

So I mean that kind of took Buffalo from there till now and it was a really frustrating time and I know there was a lot of conversations of like you know, rasp is this is dragging on guys like darling and stuff like that kind of thing. Like are they ever going to win here? Is ever going to ever not going to be miserable but like that. But it's not impossible either. It's just going to require extended patience from a group of fans that have already been extremely patient and it's not my job to fire people but suggest to me probably a management change at some point here along the in. In this time frame and there's just.

[Scott Wheeler]

There's no like there's no Martin HS coming back right like that allowed the Miko Rantman decision to be salvageable to be palpable if you're the Colorado Avalanche now ran into better player than Larkin. But like that that piece with the, with the way that his no move like I just don't. I don't. Are. Are you even getting a Logan Stankhoven? Plus plus plus Obviously like Caleb Day Noyer would. I think you'd consider a win coming operating out of where they're at but

[Max Boltman]

I think the two names Corey that we had in there that would fit the definition a little closer. One was Alexander Nikishan. I don't think he's as good as Larkin but you know with the age and top 4D. The other was Thomas Harley and like it was maybe felt like a little bit of a stretch but it gets cheaper for Dallas. Cap is really important to Dallas so it makes their cap sheet better. He's coming off the down Year like Dylan counts almost 2 million less against the cap than Harley. And if you had a blue line of Harley, Cider, Edvinson and Axel Sanding, Pelica, all those guys 25 or younger, maybe that's your path forward. You're building around a really strong blue line and you're still obviously dying for centers, but.

[Scott Wheeler]

And you've got, you've got the old

[Corey Prominen]

Nashville teams with the really good blue lines. Like when you look at this way they've. They've built here, Max. Like, I don't think you. Maybe I'm being too nice. I don't think you can look at this team and say they've made like some really glaring blunders as a management group. Like some absolutely terrible signings, terrible trades, terrible draft picks. Not saying their record's perfect by any means. I think they get hampered a little bit by something like Philip Sedena happening the year before this management group came in. But like, I don't know, how do you assess where things stand for Detroit and how they kind of designed this build up until this situation?

[Max Boltman]

I think their mistakes are mistakes of kind of cautiousness and conservativeness. Right. Like you're right that there's not some massive money deal that's become an anchor or some massive miss on a draft pick where the guy's not even going to play NHL games. There's draft picks you can revisit. Like the cosa pick at 15. Like if they had taken Wallstead, they're in a better spot. Right. Or you know, obviously everyone looks to look at Wyatt Johnston, you know, but I think even just compare the goalies, right. If they had taken Wallstead, that could have aged better. You can debate the Danielson pick. I know there was a lot of people in the market that preferred Zach Benson. Certainly today that looks like Zach Benson would have been a better pick. The Red Wings also have long needed centers. And I think taking the 6:2 skilled center who can skate like was a defensible pick at the time. Even if it's not going to age into being the correct answer. But it still could. Nate Danielson's not that old. He's going to be 22 next year. Those to me. But I think their mistakes are mistakes. More of conservatism. The Jake Wallman trade, attaching a second round pick to him only to see him get traded for a first like that. St. They let Shane Goss a spare walk. They gave out some contracts to Justin hall and. But like these are things that I think almost every NHL team does Every NHL team can list a few contracts like that that they maybe wish they hadn't get away or given out a couple guys they wish hadn't let get away. Stuff like that. I don't disagree with you, Corey, that there hasn't been any catastrophes here, but there haven't really been any home runs. And I think especially outside the first round of the draft, Emmett Finney and Albert Johansson are the only players they found. And those aren't impact guys.

[Corey Prominen]

Yeah, you look at like some of their divisional rivals. There's. There's no. Yeah, there's no, there's no Drake Bathurst in that they've got in. Nevermind like Elaine Hudson type or you know, go to Buffalo getting Samuelson in the second round or like yeah, like

[Max Boltman]

that Paterka who became Doan.

[Corey Prominen]

Yeah, like there's. That's the kind of the things they've been. Feel like they've been lacking. I feel like. Yeah. And that's why I think this is so tough, right, because it doesn't feel like like this has been like incompetent management, a poorly executed rebuild. They've just like really lacked like that one or two moves. Really just one or two. I feel like that could have put them over the top.

[Scott Wheeler]

They also didn't get the lottery luck. Like it just never.

[Max Boltman]

It's true. But. But I don't think in those years, in the years where they're really bad, like yeah, they should have picked first overall in 2020, but they came out of that draft with Lucas Raymond and if they were first overall, they might have come out of it with Alexi La Frontier. Like they, they might have been in a better spot because of that they dropped in 2019. They got more at cider. Cider's probably going two in a redraft of that year. So they didn't get the luck, but I don't actually think the luck is what killed them outside of not getting lucky in like 23 and moving up to get, you know, Bedard or whatever. But anyway, a lot to unpack there. I'm sure we'll talk more about this scout. Scott, you've got a mock draft coming out on Tuesday, so make sure everyone keep your eyes peeled for that. But that is going to do it for us today. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. Be back with you soon.

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