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- [00:00]
Nick
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- [01:55]
Scott Wheeler
This is the athletic hockey show prospect series.
- [02:10]
Max Boldman
Hey everybody. Max Boldman here alongside the Athletics, Corey Promman and Scott Wheeler and Flow Hockey's Chris Peters for another episode of the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. We are coming to you live two days before the 2026 NHL Draft. One day after one of the wildest trade days I can imagine I can remember. And that was going to have a big impact on this year's NHL Draft. Just a reminder, we are doing a draft show this year. The Athletic is teaming up with Flow Hockey. You can join us here on YouTube for the entire first round of the NHL Draft on Friday. That's June 26, 7pm ET. Will also be live the next day immediately following the Draft to recap everything. Sure, you subscribe to YouTube so you don't miss it. But we're going to have a lot to talk about, fellas, both today and on that show, because of all the action that went down on Tuesday. Let's start with the last of the trades, the one that broke Tuesday night. The Chicago Blackhawks trading the fourth pick, the 45th pick, and Louis Cier to the Buffalo Sabers for Bowen Byram and Jordan Greenway. Corey, this is a whopper because top five picks simply do not change hands.
- [03:16]
Corey Promman
No, and there's a lot to discuss about this trade, but the first thing that struck me is kind of in doing reporting about this in the aftermath is I think one of the major contributing variables to this is that Chicago was hoping to get a forward at fourth overall that was, I think, a big driver of this trade. And I believe they made this trade because they viewed, they looked at Chase Reed, look at Carson Karls, and they thought, we'd rather just get Bowen Byram. He's a few years ahead. He can play now, help our power play now. But I think they believed that Gavin McKenna is going one, that and that Ivar Stenberg and Caleb Malhotra were going two and, and three in some order. And, you know, those have been things that we have not taken as guarantees. I know that's how Scott just mocked it in his projection yesterday. And if I was doing a projection, that's how I would have it. But I don't, you know, it's you don't know other teams list. I don't think Chicago knows other, you know, the other team's list. So that's a, you know, interesting assumptions to make and, you know, and I presume it's how it's going to go on Friday, but if it doesn't go that way, all of a sudden, this trade looks even more interesting. Before you even litigate whether, you know, you know, the quality of Byram, the who, who you could have taken up for the cap space, the roster construction, you know, I'll just be really interested to see whether the first three players on Friday are indeed those three forwards. And not to mention, you can litigate whether those are the correct three forwards.
- [04:51]
Chris Peters
I, in texting some people last night, came away with the exact same takeaway as Corey here. Like it. I think the decision to move William Eklund was the strongest signal yet that the Sharks are planning to take Ivar Stenberg second. And the acquisition of the number nine pick and the assumption that one of those big five d is still going to be there. I think positions the Sharks to get exactly what they want out of this draft and take a forward and Ivar Stenberg at number two and then a defenseman at number nine. And I think that prompted the Chicago Blackhawks to circle back on Bowen Byram and say, all right, it's go time. If we're not going to land Stenberg here, which I think was their, their sort of best case scenario, the guy that they would have liked to have gotten it for if it was clear to them or they felt that the, the Sharks weren't going to take a defenseman at number two. That, that I think prompted the second move or third big move of the day in the Byram trade.
- [05:46]
Max Boldman
Yeah, two highly related trades to each other. So the William Ackland piece of this
- [05:50]
Chris Peters
that might I say I am never, ever, ever releasing my final mock draft on Wednesday. We, we're. We're going to be a Thursday mock draft moving forward here.
- [06:00]
Max Boldman
I don't know. I really enjoyed the updates. I, I like the updates throughout the day. Scott, I'm sure you're sure I had more fun with that than you did. The two related trades, though, William Eklund goes from the Shark and this was something that, by the way, that Sharks fans had been adamant about that frankly, I was skep skeptical they were going to be able to swing the idea of trading William Eklund for a top defense prospect. They don't trade him for a top defense prospect, but they trade Eklund to the Ottawa Senators for a package that is built around the number nine pick that that Ottawa just got back for in the Brady Truck trade from Florida. So that the two related trades as we talk about Bowen, Byron, but let's stay with Byram. Chris, I think the, the key question everyone's going to ask about this is it's the bird in the hand versus what could the fourth overall pick be?
- [06:40]
Unidentified Analyst
Right?
- [06:41]
Scott Wheeler
It's Bowen.
- [06:41]
Max Boldman
Byron, who was a fourth overall pick defenseman. You kind of know what he is. He's in his prime already right now, which I could see the appeal to for Chicago. On the other hand, they're gonna have to pay him a big contract in a year and you're losing some years that you would have gotten on this young player. They would have picked it fourth.
- [06:56]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, I mean, you know, I, on its face, it's an overpay, you know, and, and just I think we all kind of would say that there's a, there's too much in terms of the assets spent. But I would say Also, the other thing that strikes me is Mike Greer said that that number two pick was the one that he had received a ton of calls on. And I would bet you that Chicago was one of the teams calling on that pick because of the presence of Stenberg, that I think that he definitely was a guy that, that was, they were going to want. So failing that, now all of a sudden you go and you say, okay, we, none of these defensemen that we're looking at are going to be ready next year. They're not going to be ready the year after. Potentially, if it's Chase Reed, maybe not, you know, maybe he needs even more time. So you're saying, all right, we, Connor Bedard, we're in our a window where we need to start competing. Because you look at that roster today and it's not real good. I don't think it got a lot better. It is better, absolutely, because Bowen Byram is a better defenseman than anybody that they had at this present moment. It's a, it's a, it's a move for now, but he's never proven that he can be a number one defenseman in the NHL. And that's essentially what you are giving away. I'm, I think the timeline is important so you, you understand that they're trying to go a little bit further, further here. But you know, the thing that was kind of shocking to me was, okay, it's the fourth overall, it's 45th overall.
- [08:16]
Chris Peters
And it's 45 too.
- [08:17]
Scott Wheeler
Is, yeah, like 45. There's value, there's value in that pick. And then, and it's, it's Byram and Greenway. And so I, I, I, I think if you're going to move that pick and the fact that it wasn't moved potentially for a winger or somebody that could help Connor Bedard up front, that's one thing. I do think Bowen Byron makes them better offensively, but this team couldn't defend last year and they did not get a very good defender. So, I mean, that's the other thing that I think kind of strikes me about this deal. I, I think, you know, this is a, a massive risk I believe that they've taken and the fourth overall, the options that were going to be available to them, we're not going to help them immediately enough and they have a very deep prospect system, but there's still a lot of unknowns and I feel like even adding Bowen Byram to the mix is yet another unknown into the, into the process here.
- [09:04]
Chris Peters
I do think that they're just playing devil's advocate. I do think there's some offensive ceiling to Bowen Byram that is still untapped here. Like he's going to play PP1. He insulates Sam Renzel and Artie Levshunov who were clearly not ready to play PP1. And the everybody threw around yesterday the career high 42 points. Well, the career high 42 points came with about a minute of power play time per game on average last season. He might be playing three, three and a half minutes per average on the power play now. I like, I think 50 points is in play for him and if he can prove that he can defend at a, at a decent level in those kinds of minutes in the 23, 24 minutes. And let's not forget like he was playing with Owen Power 22, 23 minutes a night in the playoffs this year in tough matchups. Now, the results weren't always good. They weren't always strong in sort of difficult defensive matchups. But I do think like that 40 points is not the floor here that we're talking about with Byram. If he can stay healthy if he's running PP1 with Connor Bedard. He's a very, very talented player. He's confident, he plays an aggressive style offensively and I think he's really going to sort of juice a lot of offense from the back end for that group and play in a role that he's never played into this point. I'm sure there will be some, some highs and lows with him in that kind of a role. But I think like you up the PP minutes, there's, there's some Runway here for him to have a, have a really big year. The challenge with that is that. The challenge with that is that then you have to pay him.
- [10:34]
Corey Promman
Yeah, I mean he's a dynamo. I think like his skating's like off the charts good and like that's kind of what Chicago is tended to target in their defenseman is and forwards too is just high end skating and he has that in bunches. You know, he's got a really good skill level. He's, you know, very creative and intelligent with the puck. Like there's a lot of traits there that are really exciting. You know, he's not that big and he definitely tries to score more than he does try to defend at times. But he's not small either. Like there's a lot of things about his game is really exciting and the production has been there despite not having the prime opportunity on the power play there in Buffalo. Like he's an excellent player. I think the question we're all going to have on Chicago was, was the price. And from an outsider perspective, it definitely feels like somebody had a conversation with someone that said it's time to get better and it's time to get better right now because otherwise this kind of feels like we're trying to accelerate a 31st place team into something a little bit more relevant. And I think with Byram, you mentioned Bedard, Anton Frondell. I could see being on the first power play unit next year. I think Cancerov will be really good for them next year. This could be a very exciting and much. There could be a lot more skill on this team. Are they a better team? You know, we'll see. Because I still think even with the addition of Byron, that blue line is still a question. You're still waiting to see if you're getting anything out of Korchinski. You're still waiting to see, see where left Shunov is next year. So. And obviously now you lost Krivye, who I think the Internet overrates a little bit. But he was a fine, you know, depth, useful defenseman for them. So we'll see. I think they are better. Are they a playoff team though next year? As it stands right now, that would be rich for me.
- [12:16]
Max Boldman
Right now it's a 72 point team last year and while Byram helps like this is still a young blue line. I mean Bowen, Byron's going to have to be the wise veteran here for this group. When you talk about 25. That's right, 25 years old. When you talk about Levshinov, Vlaszik, Renzel, Wyatt, Kaiser, If Korchinski's in the mix like Bowen, Byram is the one who's been there, done that. And so he, he's going to be the number one D there and, and certainly, you know, it's good opportunity for him. He hasn't had that opportunity being behind McCarr, being behind Rasmus, Dalian to be the guy, but he's going right into those waters. Let's talk about another defense trade here now. Simon Nemetsch going from New Jersey, another team that had a lot of young defensemen on it, they trade him to Calgary. I think this is interesting from both angles here, Scott. So I'm curious which one stands out more to you? Is it the Calgary Flames kind of stepping on the accelerator, using draft picks to take a young defenseman and Simon Nemetz who's again going to get paid here or is it the New Jersey Devil side trading him away and what are they loading up ammo for?
- [13:13]
Chris Peters
Well, I think the Devil's side was expected like that. That ship felt like it had sailed kind of midway through last year, if not prior to that, where Sheldon Keefe just couldn't figure out how to use them. They've got a number of young defensemen that they're incorporating. Luke Hughes is trying to take a step and it just felt like Simon Nemech was taking a backseat. And I'm sure Simon feels when every time he shows up and plays excellent hockey for the Slovak national team and is on their Power Play 1, he probably feels really good about himself and feels like he should be playing a more prominent role in the NHL and that role just maybe wasn't there for him in New Jersey. I like the move if you're the Calgary Flames, if only because they didn't expend the kind of capital. Now multiple first round picks is multiple first round picks. But in Vegas and Colorado they're going to be late first round picks. So they've still retained their six overall selection. They've still retained Zane Perek, they've still retained kind of the Cole Reschnees and the pieces that they've invested real capital in and they still have moving forward their own first round picks long term. So I liked it from that perspective. Like if you're the Calgary Flames, you've got quantity in your pool. You can live with not having those two late first round picks. Now you add Simon Nemech, you've got Zane Precht, maybe you take a defenseman, whether it's Keaton Verhoffer, Carson Karls here, suddenly you've got three excellent defensemen potentially to build around. Maybe you take a Viggo Bjork, maybe this frees you up a little bit to take a Viggo Bjork. I do worry a little bit about what it's going to look like to watch Zane Parek and Simon Nemech in a top four defend long term in hard playoff hockey if that's the step that they eventually want to take. But you've got your two power play guys of the future there in those two and I think that that is exciting. Like they're going to be a more entertaining brand of hockey in Calgary moving forward here.
- [15:03]
Corey Promman
What stands out to me about this trade is, you know, Nemesis is a good player. He's had some ups and downs but he's a good, he's a good player. He's a legit NHL defenseman. He's going to help Calgary. Is he a number two overall pick caliber player? You know, probably not, but he's not that far off. He's a, he's a, you know, a, he's a top four defenseman. I think long term, when we often have draft discussions and we talk about need versus bpa, best player available, we often, you know, get into these, like these really good discussions about, you know, who's the, who is the, you know, the best player and if a team has a lot of excess in one position, you know, how do the, all these players fit together. And I feel like with New Jersey you kind of saw this coming, right? Like we saw when they signed Dougie Hamilton, the power play guy. Then they draft Luke Hughes, fourth overall, you know, he's a power play guy. Then, you know, what was it, a year or two later they draft Nemes. He's a power play guy. The people who always say, take best player available, say just get all the assets and then trade them. But what happens here is you got too many of one player type and arguably you devalued Nemec because he didn't get to play on the power play. He doesn't put up the production. Now you have this 6, 0 defenseman who's a, you know, a 20, 30 point guy and his value is not high enough to trade. So I think these are the kind of, you know, the lines that people have to walk a little bit. And it's something that I think, you know, you look at Buffalo, who's going to be staring chase Reed at 4 now if he's the clear best player available, that's, that's one thing. But I think it's going to be hard to say just draft Reed and, and trade, power trade read or something like that. It doesn't always work out the way you think it's going to work out.
- [16:48]
Max Boldman
Well, but interestingly, isn't that what San Jose and Buffalo both did yesterday?
- [16:53]
Pablo Torre
Right.
- [16:53]
Max Boldman
Like San Jose is kind of over leveraged on young forwards and they trade away William Ekman, they get back the ninth pick that they can use to take their D. And you know, Buffalo, you can argue, just did that with Byron.
- [17:02]
Corey Promman
My point is more that I think San Jose did that at the opportune time. They did that before Stenberg comes in and Eklund starts going down the lineup and before Will Smith and Chernischev start taking his ice time. That the issue was in Nemet is he kind of, they, you know, there was, there was kind of like this window where we thought this Nemesis might get traded. This is not a new thing. We thought for years that he was potentially going to get traded. And it kind of feels like if they do this two years ago, they probably get more return. And I'm not sure that they got really any new information about Nemet. In the two years since then, Chicago
- [17:35]
Chris Peters
put themselves in the exact same bind, taking Renzel, Korchinski and Levshunov back to back to back, too. Right. Like it's, it's put court. It has put Korchinski in a sticky spot both in their lineup and from now a trade value standpoint if they want to move on from Kevin. So it's. There is something to that. And frankly, if we look back on this era of the Blackhawks and they never find the winger for Connor Bard, we're. We're going to circle back on Ivan Demidov and the decision to take Lev Shunov, even if they had Lev Shunov number two on their list. So it's, it is a dangerous game to, to sort of take. If you're, if you're constantly taking the best player available and that best player available is constantly at the same position, you can end up in a difficult spot.
- [18:19]
Max Boldman
All right, let's go to the other side of the Eklund deal now in Ottawa. And, you know, they do well to get a young player in Eklund, but it's such a drastic shift in, I feel like, identity that the Ottawa Senators undergo inevitably when you lose a guy like Brady Kachuk, but Eklund such a different player from there. And now you start looking at their lineup and it does start to become more about kind of speed and skill than I think, kind of the toughness that I've come to associate with the Senators. Corey.
- [18:45]
Corey Promman
Yeah. And I, I think they're still a good team. Now. I, I think there's been some chatter online that Eklund's a equal or superior player to Brady Kachuk. I kind of think that's nonsense. But, but he's a really good player. He's. Who said that there was like, some like, Windsor public placements, like, stats being posted, is that he has, like a higher war over the last two years than Brady did or something like that. It's. Yeah, exactly. You know, but, you know, but I, I mean, Ecklund's a good player and I like this Ottawa team still. I like them with Eklund on their team. Yes. They lose a really unique player and Brady, who's, you know, an off the charts competitor with, with n. Who has the size and physicality to go with the skill. It's. That's hard to find. But I still think, I mean, it's been something I've said about Ottawa for years. As long as they get goaltending, I think they're fine. It could even be like good next year. They know the roster definitely takes a mild step back, but I don't think it's a substantial step back. Like, I still think it's a good, it's a very good. Tim Stutzla is a star. Jake Sanderson's a star. They've got some, you know, some good depth scoring throughout the lineup. You got to imagine Yakam, Chuck's pushing in the next year or two to join the lineup. So like they're gonna get the lineup will be good. Is it great? I don't know. But I think it's. This is still a team that could contend for the playoffs.
- [20:07]
Max Boldman
I think the center depth, you know, you go Stutzla, Cousins, Pinto. That's pretty enviable in terms of.
- [20:11]
Chris Peters
I still think Pinto has another level here too.
- [20:18]
Jack
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- [21:13]
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- [21:59]
Max Boldman
All right, one more big trade yesterday. Jordan Cairo going. This is another one. You know, I don't think anyone's surprised to see Jordan Cairo get traded. Maybe a bit surprised though, Scott, at just how much he returned. Right. When you talk about the 16th overall pick, Connor McMichael, Milton Gastrin, they got
- [22:13]
Chris Peters
a haul for Jordan Kyro and when was the last time a team made four first round selections? Now, I'm not convinced that the St. Louis Blues on Friday will actually make four first round selections, but they now own 11, 15, 16 and 29, I believe it is. So they've, they're in a pretty unique spot now. The challenge that I think the Blues now face is if they can't swing a deal to package some of those picks, whether it's to move up or to. To acquire another player that helps them. I do worry about a sort of quantity over quality situation happening there. Like we all like Jimmy Snug Rude and Justin Carbono and Adam Gira Check and Theo Linstein and Philip Broberg and Dylan Hallway. Like all, all good players, good pieces of the puzzle. Jake Neighbors, good players. But you're, you're adding potentially four more players who kind of look like that and you're still missing that star. Now Robert Thomas, there's a case to be made that Robert Thomas and Jordan Kyro weren't even that level of player, that they were never going to be that sort of true star. That takes you from a sort of a good playoff floor into a contending window. But it still feels like they're almost like they're, they're drafting future Jordan Kyros and future. Future Rob. So, so that, that part of it is, is tricky for me. Like I just don't know what the path for unless you can leverage those four picks or a couple of those picks and one of the prospects to go out and find that guy. I just, I don't know what the Blues look like moving forward here. And it doesn't feel like they're a team that's prepared to tank and pick in the top five and find a player, find that player that way either. So it's an interesting spot as an organization.
- [23:57]
Corey Promman
Cairo just had like a career worse season too. Like it's in the. What they got back for him.
- [24:04]
Chris Peters
You know, as a. McMichael's a good player too.
- [24:06]
Corey Promman
Yeah, yeah.
- [24:07]
Scott Wheeler
They have the same amount of points last year.
- [24:09]
Corey Promman
Yeah. You know, Cairo is a way better skater. But other than, other than that, like it's, I echo Max's point. I'm surprised. I think Gastron's a real prospect too. Like I think he's gonna be a bottom six four in the NHL. Could even be like a third liner. Like he's, he's, he checks a lot of boxes. Like that was a haul, I thought considering the context of Cairo's situation.
- [24:30]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, yeah, that was, that was the biggest takeaway for me was how much Jordan Kyro brought back because yes, he's had some 70 point seasons, multiple 30 goal seasons, that's a really good player. But you know, it's just again, are you getting the best version of Jordan Kyru? Are you putting him in the position to succeed? And now, you know, losing a pick in the mid teens for a, for a group that, let's face it, like the Washington Capitals window is continually closing, I mean it feels almost closed. And knowing that the Ovechkin factor is still going to hang over this organization's head, not, you know, not having a pick in the teens even feels like it's, you know, potentially going to have some long term effects. But I do think I'm kind of intrigued by what we're seeing in the NHL right now where it's like picks prospects. Ah, let's get some guys that can help us right now. I kind of like the instant gratification nature of the NHL because look at what, look at what it's brought forth for some of these other teams that have had trade pieces be significant piece. I mean, you know Kelly McCrimmon saying, I know everybody kind of hates us because we win all the time. Well, it's because they trade all the time too and they, they don't have any preciousness about their prospects. They don't care. There's zero emotion tied to any of these decisions and they don't overvalue their, their pieces that much. And so that makes this player movement a little bit more palatable for teams. And they're saying, okay, well if we can get better now. But these prices are definitely their sticker shock for sure on some of these prices relative to the returns.
- [25:59]
Corey Promman
How to pick at 18. Mind you, one thing that stands at me on a depth chart level two for Washington is they acquire Cairo, who's a wing. Look at all of their drafts. Yeah, Ivan Mirosuchenko, Ryan Leonard, Lyndon Lakovic, Tarek Paris check Andrew Crystal. This is a really like all they got a lot of wingers that they've used premium Assets, because basically they just turn another first round pick into another wing.
- [26:23]
Max Boldman
They trade Michael, who can play center.
- [26:25]
Corey Promman
Yeah, yeah. Where are your centers coming from? Where's your defense coming from? I will be very surprised if that 19th pick is not a center or defenseman. And it's probably going to be a center. When you look at how the talent's probably going to line up.
- [26:39]
Max Boldman
Yeah, yeah, it's.
- [26:40]
Scott Wheeler
And you're getting into the lower tiers of the draft in both positions at that point, too.
- [26:44]
Corey Promman
Does tight end Lawrence get there?
- [26:46]
Chris Peters
I don't. I don't think Lawrence or command get there. So I think. I think you're looking at, like, Suvanto and Morozov and Dejanae and those types.
- [26:53]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, I'm not even sure Savanto will be there, so.
- [26:56]
Chris Peters
And I'm not even sure dejeune is a center.
- [27:00]
Max Boldman
To your point, though, Chris, I mean, like, this is obviously being influenced by the lack of free agent market, too. I mean, I think that. Oh, yeah, there's the example setting of, you know, Carolina, Vegas, Florida, all really aggressive teams and trades the last couple seasons and willing to. To part with future capital. But a big part of it is you just can't go to free agency on July 1 and expect to find a player anymore. With the way the cap is set up, with the way free. The free agent class is developing, if you want to get better, you have to trade picks. And to some extent, teams are going to have to get comfortable accepting futures. I don't know that we've saw a ton of obvious rebuilders over the last 18 months in the NHL, but it's just the best you're going to do if you're someone who has to trade a player.
- [27:40]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, no question. That's a huge factor, Max. Like, I think that the. The fact that, you know, free agency is. Is dud after dud, year after year. Now, you do have to, you know, get creative in. In how you're going to find these players. And, you know, you look at some of these rebuilding teams like Chicago in particular, they have been for years now just stockpiling and stockpiling and stockpiling. And they've got quantity, they do have quality, they've got a little bit of everything, but they still have a lot of guys that aren't going to help you now. And so that pressure is ramping up on these teams. And I think when you look at both San Jose and Chicago in particular, they're looking at their top center, their top guys, Bedard and Celebrini and Saying how do we, we, we have to be very aggressive in how we support these guys because their peaks are coming now. Like you know, their, their best years are going to be in these next, you know, 4, 5, 6 probably. And so you need to have that window protected with, with current players and you're, there's, it's not coming through free agency. It's, I mean how many mistakes are going to be made in free agency with, with the lack of quality just because the market dictates the player makes that much money and then you've made a years long mistake. It happens all the time. So I think we'll continue to see an aggressive trade market in the NHL and I don't think we're done in this week. I think, you know, we're going to finish recording this and there'll probably be a move or two more and then plenty on draft day as well. So I'm, I'm. Hey, it's exciting.
- [29:07]
Max Boldman
I do. Before we go, before we get to the draft here, I do want to just go back. Corey, I, I sense the Louis. You think Louis Krevi is a little overrated here. I am shocked to hear that. Six, eight, great skater, 100 mile an hour shot. I thought you of all people would love this guy.
- [29:21]
Corey Promman
I thought, well, I saw Scott interacting with somebody yesterday who said he's better than Byram.
- [29:25]
Max Boldman
So that's like, all right, well okay then. Okay, I, I retract that. That would be overrated. That was.
- [29:31]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, okay on the Internet. But hey, tape. Corey, the tape measure and the scale. Pretty good here.
- [29:38]
Chris Peters
Pretty good.
- [29:39]
Corey Promman
He's a good player. I think his puck play is a problem, but I think like the skating for the size is intriguing. He's an NHL defenseman and physical.
- [29:46]
Chris Peters
Like yeah, he was an NHL defenseman on one of the worst defensive teams in the league last year. Like what is he on a good team? Right? He's a six, seven. He's a six, seven.
- [29:56]
Max Boldman
I think he's going to be very nice in Buffalo. I think he's a very nice fit in Buffalo.
- [30:00]
Corey Promman
He, he'll. He'll replace Logan Stanley in the press box.
- [30:03]
Max Boldman
He'll replace Logan Stanley on the ice.
- [30:05]
Pablo Torre
He'll.
- [30:05]
Max Boldman
He'll be their third pair, right D. I really think so. All right, let's go to the draft here. So much of a shakeup now. We talked about St. Louis has half the first round at this point. We talked about why we think Chicago likely made this move to. With number four to get out of number four. The forward doesn't get there. What are the ripples of all this movement though now, Corey? Because we all of a sudden have an extremely different looking first half of the first round.
- [30:28]
Corey Promman
Well, I really, I think, you know, we made this point earlier about San Jose. I really like how they navigate this draft class because if they had Stenberg at 2, which I don't know if they do, but let's just say they had Stenberg at 2, but they think it's really close, which I do believe they had a defenseman in the conversation at 2 that they really liked a lot, but their preference is Stenberg. You look at this draft class and you say it's not like a really top heavy draft class, but it's a deep top eight, top 10. And the teams that are picking six to 10, I think in this draft are really happy because they're going to get a really good player and the decision is going to be made in front of them. So San Jose just kind of gets right into the mix of that and they say we're going to get a really good defenseman. It may not be our number one defenseman, but I don't know if the difference between the number one and the number five or number six defenseman in this draft is all that different.
- [31:15]
Max Boldman
Right.
- [31:16]
Corey Promman
So they're going to walk away with a really exciting forward who's going to be on their top six, maybe even top power play this season and a really, you know, great defense prospect that's going to come into their, into their system and probably be in their team in a couple of years. Now, in the case of Buffalo, I'm not sure what the, how the, how this helps them, you know, you know, short term. But you know, Max, I know talking to you beforehand, you got to keep in mind that, you know, Raspus, Darlene is already in his prime. Owen Power has been good. He hasn't been great. So let's say they go the direction of a chase read at four. You know, Reed's probably doing one, if not two years at school. You know, who knows how Buffalo looks in two or three years from now. Maybe Power develops some more offense, maybe he doesn't. But if Reed's an elite prospect and he's a, you know, elite young defensemen are really hard to come by.
- [32:08]
Pablo Torre
And
- [32:11]
Corey Promman
I know it doesn't help them short term, but I feel like over the long term getting a player like that can help you stay competitive for a very long time as opposed to, you know, they get had a nice run this past spring, maybe next you Know, do another year or two, then it kind of falls off where you got to start paying people.
- [32:31]
Max Boldman
Yeah, Dylan's like eight, nine years older than the player that they'll pick at four. If they pick for.
- [32:36]
Chris Peters
If they take Reed at four or Carson Carls or whoever of name your, your defenseman in that range and you're redeemed. Merca, sitting at home, I think you get real uneasy about your status within the organization. And Redeem has already. First of all, he didn't have a great year. Second of all, he's already been rumored in, in trades. Like, I think he's, he's probably not long for there if, if they take a D there, especially a right shot.
- [33:02]
Corey Promman
I feel like he probably should have been on easy when he had one goal this season. That, that was probably the, the first indicator.
- [33:09]
Max Boldman
I get your point though, Scott. Like, it does. It's an interesting question because I think one of the natural questions you have. You see this trade is like, is Buffalo gonna flip the fourth pick for something? The other option is Buffalo makes the fourth pick and flips guys like Merka flips these, this stable up. They have a deep court. They're not. They have more forward prospects than they can play.
- [33:26]
Chris Peters
I did have someone text me right away last night too, after that trade happened saying that they think that Buffalo may flip the fourth pick. So we're not done here.
- [33:35]
Corey Promman
Yeah, well, what was that the first time a top five pick was traded in like 15 years? Something like that? It'd be.
- [33:40]
Max Boldman
So we're gonna say something in a week?
- [33:41]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, it happens twice a week. But like also. Yeah, we also didn't expect it to go for a. Probably not number one defenseman. So like, you know, like, it's, it's just this whole thing is, is, is crazy. But now in terms of how this, this does shake up the draft, I mean, now if you're sitting there, you're, you're thinking, you know, if we're, if we think that the first three players off the board are going to be forwards, if, if you're, if you're locking in Malhotra into, you know, into Vancouver, which I'm not sure we can do, but I think Stenberg's lack of availability likely they're probably just pushes that right into Malhotra territory. Now you've got some real intrigue in, in the, in the, the next few picks because we'll see what Buffalo does. But I'm more interested in seeing which of the defenseman at that point, if it is a defenseman or if it is Viggo Bjork that, that New York is going to take it five. I mean, like the, the. The fact that what we've been talking about all this time was what is San Jose really going to do with that number two pick? And they basically telegraphed it to the world here, which is then precipitated a massive trade which just goes to show you how much I think, you know, there was some hope that Chicago was going to be able to land Stenberg at that spot. So now you have all these other things kind of compounding. So I think we're getting a better sense now of what the top five looks like. I have no clue what Buffalo should or can do in that pick. You know, in terms of where they go. I think Corey's onto it with the defense if that's the case. But my.
- [35:11]
Chris Peters
Is it. I mean, is it inconceivable now that the four. I'm not saying it will happen, but is it inconceivable that the first four picks could be forwards?
- [35:19]
Corey Promman
No.
- [35:20]
Pablo Torre
Yeah.
- [35:21]
Grainger Announcer
Not.
- [35:21]
Scott Wheeler
Not inconceivable at all.
- [35:23]
Max Boldman
I mean, would Bjork. I mean, like, I think you're talking about Bjork, Scott.
- [35:26]
Pablo Torre
Right?
- [35:26]
Chris Peters
Yep.
- [35:26]
Max Boldman
Would Bjork be redundant to Oslin, Benson, Helenius? I mean, there's some similar profile. I mean, Burke might be the best of those. He probably is.
- [35:35]
Corey Promman
Yeah. But I think Carolina's playoff run is going to help that argument a little bit. But I, I get what you're saying, but I also. I think there's a talent delta there between Reed and Bjork. I'm not sure what Buffalo thinks,
- [35:48]
Pablo Torre
but
- [35:50]
Corey Promman
I think with Bjork, the compete is just so special that, like, I think you're.
- [35:55]
Chris Peters
He.
- [35:56]
Corey Promman
He's like really a six zero guy who just kind of looks small.
- [35:59]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah. And, you know. Go ahead, Scott.
- [36:02]
Unidentified Analyst
Sorry.
- [36:02]
Chris Peters
No, I was gonna say, to your point of is it redundant? Well, in theory, they. They would like Viggo Bjork for all the same reasons that they liked Noah Oslind and, and Zach Benson as well, too. Right.
- [36:11]
Max Boldman
Yeah, no, very true.
- [36:13]
Scott Wheeler
And in the, in the TSN poll that I, that I did with Craig Button, Bjork was ahead of Malhotra on that finalist, which I guess it didn't necessarily surprise me because I felt like the wins were blowing in the, in Bjork's direction over the last few weeks, coming out of the World championship, coming out of the combine. But like, there is. The opinions of the player are. There's. There's definitely people out There, that'll say five, nine center. No, thank you. At that range. But there are a lot more teams that seem more comfortable with that player. And I, I do think that Logan Stankoven's playoff run has a little bit to with that too.
- [36:51]
Corey Promman
Passing on Reed at 4 would be, you know, something that could age poorly. Because I kind of feel like this, this is a pretty special talent.
- [37:01]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah.
- [37:02]
Corey Promman
And because I, I get the appeal of. Of Bjork, but like, Reed kind of checks every box and he's a guy who I think, you know, talk. When you talk to scouts, Chris, you say this is somebody who some scouts have all the way up at number one overall or two. And like I said, it's close enough that I don't think it's unreasonable to take Bjork. But that would be one where, like I said, you better be sure they don't have righties.
- [37:30]
Max Boldman
Like, they're the. All the D. They have are on the left side. I get there's like the power play argument. And are those spots kind of spoken for somewhat? Certainly. I think Reed has a very good case to take power play, too, within a few years, though. And there's the age gap, there's the handedness gap. Like, I think he slots in. I think he would be a very nice puzzle piece there. I want to ask you guys about the San Jose pick, though, because my first thought. And Scott, I think you mocked to them Dax and Rudolph. I think that's the ideal outcome here for San Jose when you get that type of player. And I think even on that survey that you did with the scouts, Scott, where you had him rank the top group, a D1 to 5, there were people who had a Rudolph 5, but there were people who really liked Rudolph as well. Like, that could be a great outcome for them. My only question is, does Rudolph even get there?
- [38:09]
Chris Peters
I think there's. There's a good chance that Rudolph still gets there, that the. That you're right. The part of the survey that sort of showed us that he was first and second on some boards was the surprising part, but he was also fifth on the. On the most board. So I think. And I think that speaks to where the consensus kind of is at on Rudolph. There are some people who still have him fifth in that group, and he has turned some others into some big believers with his offensive potential and his offensive ceiling. I think for San Jose, he kind of fits like a glove. He's a righty to Dickinson's lefty. He can run the power play. If you don't believe that Sam Dickinson is going to be your PP1 guy of the future, which I think it feels like the winds are blowing that way. He, he's still got size like he. I think he would be an excellent, excellent outcome if you're the Sharks. And it still feels to me based off of all of the conversations I've had and the survey, it still feels to me like the Carl's, Reed, Smiths, Verhoff are more likely than not going to be the in some order the first 4D taken. I don't think that's a foregone conclusion. But if I were placing the betting odds, I would still have Rudolph as the fifth guy on draft day.
- [39:19]
Max Boldman
I guess my point is what if all five of them are gone in the top eight picks? I don't think like Bjork if he goes at four, that's one thing.
- [39:25]
Scott Wheeler
Right.
- [39:25]
Max Boldman
He certainly has potential homes. Right. Like we talked about, Calgary needs a center. Yeah, exactly. There's Holmes there. But it would it be inconceivable if all five of those deer got in the top eight?
- [39:35]
Unidentified Analyst
Corey?
- [39:36]
Corey Promman
No, I think that's a very realistic scenario. You know, I think Bjork, everybody likes Bjork. Like I think all those teams have a lot of passion for Bjork, but I definitely could see a scenario where he's their second or their third favorite where they can say but yeah, but not an elite skater. Yeah, but five nine. And they just have a higher projection on one of those defensemen, which would be interesting.
- [40:04]
Max Boldman
I mean, I guess Gus ifson's not a bad consolation price. I just mean like my I defaulted to Rudolph. And when I saw it on your mock Scott, I was like, yep, this is how probably how San Jose would draw it up.
- [40:13]
Jack
Right?
- [40:14]
Max Boldman
But it's, it's possible that Gustafson is the best D remaining at that point. And there's some rhyme with Dickinson and
- [40:19]
Corey Promman
I think Gustafson's better than Rudolph.
- [40:21]
Max Boldman
All right, well there you go. So wouldn't be a problem for for Corey then in San Jose's shoes. Par le tu francais hablas espanol par Liano.
- [40:34]
Unidentified Analyst
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- [41:09]
Grainger Announcer
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- [41:39]
Jack
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- [42:38]
Max Boldman
okay, let's talk about a couple. You know any other kind of slide candidates here like you talked about? Kind of the path for Bjork. We don't think he's going to fall too late. I feel like he's probably going top 10 no matter what here. But is there anyone who maybe the public would be surprised to see you could go a little bit later?
- [42:52]
Corey Promman
Corey I think Lawrence is probably one that would be one that stands out to me. I think both of those Swedish wingers, Herman S. Nordmark wouldn't surprise me if they go in a little later than people expected because I think their compete worries people. I keep seeing Preston mocked in first rounds. I'd really be surprised if that happens quite frankly. I'm trying to think what else am I missing? Anybody obvious? Guys like problem problem kids, guys who had bad second halves? Any anything obvious that I'm forgetting here.
- [43:26]
Chris Peters
I think probably, if not even 50, 50 to go first round, like, I think Vilnius going in the second round.
- [43:35]
Corey Promman
Yeah, I feel like people are presuming Tommy Blale is for sure going first round. I would not take that as a guarantee just because of the 5:11 defenseman factor. I think people are presuming the rucks are going in the first round. I would not presume that. I just getting towards the draft, I think I get the sense teams are scared of the rucks more than they're excited about the rucks because I feel like there's a lot of pressure to take both of them together because they're so intertwined with each other as human beings and they just committed out to the same college together. They've never been apart from each other more than a few days. And so you need to have the right assets in the right spots in the draft. There's only so few teams that can, that can execute that. So, like, if I could see one going like at the end, but it wouldn't surprise me if both are available on day two.
- [44:21]
Max Boldman
How about the other side of that, Chris? Anyone who you think goes higher than people are prepared to see him go.
- [44:26]
Scott Wheeler
You know, I, I was thinking for a bit, Wyatt Cullen, I'm starting to not think that as much. I think he's probably going to go in the range that a lot of people have kind of projected him in. You know, in that. Somewhere in that it really probably is like that 9 to 13 range, 9 to 15 range, even for. For Wyatt Cullen. You know, I do think Bly's going in the first. I think he's. I think he's a. For sure gonna go on the first. We'll see if. We'll see if those teams are. Are going to be there in the end. But yeah, I think that. That's one where I feel pretty confident that he could. And then, yeah, beyond that, you know, I think we'll. We'll have to wait and see. You know, Command is probably the, the other guy that I'm looking at as, as. As a guy who just has a ton of fans in the scouting community right now. He's. He's probably still that right outside of that tier of players, like those 13 players, which I would include Lawrence in that, that are, you know, potentially going to go. And if, if guys like Lawrence slide, like Command is, is a natural guy to potentially move up in that scenario.
- [45:31]
Chris Peters
Yeah, I, I could see command like 11, 12, 13, 14. Like, that's, that's in play for him.
- [45:38]
Max Boldman
So potentially above Lawrence, potentially.
- [45:41]
Chris Peters
Wouldn't surprise me.
- [45:42]
Scott Wheeler
That would contribute to this.
- [45:42]
Pablo Torre
That.
- [45:43]
Scott Wheeler
That's part of what I think is, you know, like, contributing to the slide is that there are. There are teams that are just starting to like guys better. So.
- [45:49]
Corey Promman
Yeah, my last mock draft, I'm gonna have command going before Lawrence.
- [45:53]
Unidentified Analyst
All right.
- [45:54]
Max Boldman
And Corey, you were just at speaking of kind of late risers. I mean, one of the events that sometimes can produce those late risers is the Dan Milstein gold star camp, which he's an agent. He represents a lot of Russian players. And that's a dilemma for teams scouting Russia the last several years. There just hasn't been that many opportunities for good live viewings.
- [46:11]
Jack
It's a.
- [46:11]
Max Boldman
It's a very specific environment. Like, it's. It's an agent camp kind of thing. But you were able to attend it. Like, anything interesting come out of that?
- [46:18]
Corey Promman
Yeah, you know, it's a unique camp because like you said, it's an agent run camp. So they obviously want to put their guys in the best positions to succeed. But because of the unique variables in Russia, they continue to get a lot of really good Russians. The camps look almost like a world junior camp, quite frankly. This year, every team was in attendance and often running deep with the amount of people they had in attendance. And one thing that's usually very interesting is a lot of the measurements we get on players for Russians in particular. Sometimes other Europeans are unofficial. They get officially confirmed at the combine, but we don't have the official ones for Russians. So Gleb Pugachev confirmed at six foot three. He was unofficially six foot three. And Nikita Sherbakov, the defenseman, kind of what we thought is like a high mid two. He was unofficially 6 foot 3, officially comes in at 6 foot 5. Laver Gashelov, who was kind of a second, third round guy, I think for us was official. Unofficially 6 foot 3, officially Comes in at 5 foot 11. Oh, so those are things that, that. Those are things that could, you know, move the needle a little bit. Definitely got the sense that Pugachev is well loved in the league. Clef off was officially measured at 6 0. He was unofficially 6 0. So that didn't change Pugachev. I definitely think there's some love in the league. Like, he's. He reminds me a lot of Lawson Krause at the same age. Now he's a Russian. Lawson Krause. That's a little. Maybe a distinction there in terms of the terms of his range, but definitely get the sense There's a lot of interest in him.
- [47:52]
Chris Peters
I believe Klepov would have been measured at the CHL usa, but it is the OHL game. Yeah, it is noteworthy that they didn't go this year. Like typically, the true top Russians have still gone to the combine, especially the ones that are playing in North America. Even in recent years with everything happening in Ukraine, the North American Russians have tipped typically still gone this year. Klepov and Barabanov, who I expect would have been a part of that 80 to 90 player list for the combine, just didn't go. Like they just said, we're gonna go to the Gold Star camp and that's going to be our combine and we're not going to participate in the events in, in Buffalo, which was a, an interesting ripple to it this year.
- [48:34]
Corey Promman
Also Dmitry Borichev, one of the top goalie prospects, unofficially 63 measured in officially at 6 2. You know, still, you know, deep, good height, but you know, inches matter when it comes to goalies. Could that take him off from being like maybe the first, second goalie, maybe more the third, fourth, fifth goalie? We'll see on, on Friday, Saturday.
- [48:53]
Max Boldman
All right, and then one last bit. This is not 2026 draft related, but 2027 draft of high, of high importance to that class. Landon Dupont, multiple reports this afternoon as we talk on Wednesday that he could be headed to the University of Michigan. Scott, this is obviously a big college hockey thing, but, but we can even talk about in the context of Dupont and the opportunity that he'll have now to showcase himself in his draft year.
- [49:15]
Chris Peters
Yeah, it's a, it's a hand to glove fit. Honestly, a year ago, the big question mark, especially after Henry Muse, who had an excellent start frankly at Michigan, went down with his injury, was sort of who's going to move pucks, who's going to make plays? Dakota Room. Mullen can move pucks, but there's, there were a lot of questions, big, big questions about that blue line. I think it was a surprise for some around college hockey when they went to the frozen four with the blue line that they had. Now suddenly you've got Henry Muse coming back from injury. You've recruited Cameron Reed, a 19 year old first round pick who will likely be a returnee for Team Canada at the World Juniors and just won a Memorial cup as the captain of the Kitchener Rangers. And you've added Landon Dupont and suddenly you've got three really capable puck movers on that back end and three guys who are, who are sort of legit legit NHL prospects on that backend back end on top of the forwards that we typically expect them to have. And I think Landon and, and head coach Brandon Narado and the system that they play, the style of play that they play, I just think is a really great fit. Like they, they want their D active in the rush, they want their D involved in offense, they want to be making plays. And that's the style I imagine, that Landon wants to be playing in his draft year. So it'll be really, they'll be a very compelling team. They're going to be a very popular team for NHL scouts. And Michigan now has has the pressure of trying to make another run with a bunch of teenagers while everybody else does it with older lineups. And that's kind of been their MO to mixed results. And this team is as talented as any in terms of first round picks and all of that. And they've, they've got a really, really interesting group now.
- [50:52]
Corey Promman
Speaking of which, Michigan plays Denver in a series in October, who also have young players this year, but they have built their teams a little differently. That should be a really exciting series though, in October.
- [51:03]
Max Boldman
Absolutely. Absolutely. All right, well, that's going to do it for us. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect series. Remember to subscribe to us on YouTube especially in advance of our live show during the draft on Friday, June 26, 7pm ET here on YouTube. We'll talk to you soon.
- [51:24]
Ben Green
Hi, this is Ben Green from the Athletic fc. The podcast you're about to listen to is brought to you by Hotels.com as a Hotels.com member, you save up to 20% on hundreds of thousands of hotels and earn rewards on every single stay. Which means the trips you're taking now help pay for the ones you're already dreaming about. And unlike some other places, there are no blackout dates. So when you want to travel, your rewards are ready to go. So the next time you're planning a work trip or a getaway, make sure to book it at hotels.com and start earning rewards. Rewards, hotels.com, it's all in the name.
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Jack
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