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- [00:01]
Scott Wheeler
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Scott Wheeler
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Scott Wheeler
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Corey Pronman
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Scott Wheeler
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Chris Peters
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Scott Wheeler
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Scott Wheeler
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Corey Pronman
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Scott Wheeler
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Max Boltman
This is the athletic hockey show prospect series. Hello and welcome to the Athletic and Flow Hockey NHL Draft live. We'll be with you throughout the first round of the 2026 NHL Draft tonight. I'm Max Boltman, host of the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series and with me tonight are three of the most trusted prospect analysts in the sport, the Athletics, Scott Wheeler and Corey Promman and Flow Hockey's Chris Peters. These guys are in the rinks all year watching and evaluating these players, talking to scouts and executives. Tonight it all comes together with the 2026 NHL Draft and guys flurry of action this week that before the draft is even underway. High picks changing hands. First we had the ninth overall pick going from Florida to Ottawa in The Brady Tachuk trademark. Ottawa trades that pick to San Jose for William Eklund. We have the 16th pick going from Washington to St. Louis for Jordan Cairo. And then Corey, we had the fourth pick, the highest pick we've seen traded this close to the draft in over a decade. Going from Chicago, where we're broadcasting from tonight, to Buffalo, where the actual draft is being held in the Bowen Byram trade. A lot of chaos going on this week. Where does it leave the draft and what are the big kind of pivot points you're watching for how this draft takes shape?
- [03:36]
Corey Pronman
I think we presume that Toronto is going to take Penn State's Gavin McKenna with the first pick. So I think the first interesting decision comes with san Jose at 2. It feels like an evolving presumption that it's going to be for Lunda, zaivar, Stenberg, the two dynamic wingers going 1, 2 to start the draft. But I know there's a lot of passion in that San Jose organization for Chase Reed, who's the projected top defenseman in this draft coming out of the OHL in Sault Ste. Marie. So which way they go with that pick, I think it'd be very fascinating, but probably the most interesting pick in this draft is going to be what Vancouver does at 3. The Vancouver Canucks could go between someone like a Chase Reed or Caleb Malhotra, who's the top center prospect in this year's draft. But the wrinkle obviously, is that their new head coach is Manny Malhotra, who just happens to be Caleb's son. We believe that the Canucks think very highly of both of those players and what direction they decide to go will be very fascinating. And then finally, I think it's not a guarantee, but I kind of feel like it's a good chance that the first four picks in some order will be McKenna, Reed, Malhotra and Stenberg. We get to pick five. The New York Rangers is where the draft really can open up a little bit and where the rest of the top 10, top 12 and the flow of how all those top prospects are going to go is going to be defined. What do the Rangers do? Do they take one of the top defense prospects? There's a lot of those guys that are close. Albert Smith, Carson Karls, Keaton Werhoff. Which one do they take? They really, really need some center talent in that organization. Do they opt for the 5 foot 9 but yet dynamic and super competitive Vigo Bjork? I think those are the main things that we're looking to watch in the opening hour of this year's draft and
- [05:13]
Max Boltman
that's if there's no more trades. I mean, I don't know that we can rule it out. There's some really big names thought to be available right now on the market. We could see some fireworks tonight. But let's go to the draft first, Scott. And the top name in this class is Gavin McKenna. He's been the top name in this class for years. A very famous prospect, a lot of track record, and yet it has not really been a straight line to go from the player we first saw come onto the scene a couple of years ago to now being the favorite to go number one tonight.
- [05:37]
Chris Peters
No, it hasn't. Gavin has faced some adversity over the course of his draft year in college hockey. He faced it early on the ice. He struggled in the fall. Coming out of the fall, the conversation had kind of shifted around Gavin. He was viewed coming out of junior hockey as a player who had scored comparably to players like Connor Bedard, players like Connor McDavid. They. This is a kid who was the reigning CHL player of the year, still to this day the record holder for U17 scoring at the U18 World Championships. He's, he's a decorated, decorated player coming out of, out of junior hockey. And then it's hard. He's a five' eleven skinnier kid. He, he dealt with some issues on the ice in terms of the competitiveness, the physicality at the college level. He joined a program in Penn State that was not a historic program relative to the Boston Colleges, the Boston universities, the Minnesota schools, the Michigan, the big Michigan schools. And he tried to sort of stake his claim as the guy at a program that hadn't been there. They had just been to the frozen four for the very first time. And there were some ups and downs. And then into the second half, it's okay. I'm still Gavin McKenna. He was tremendous in the second half, sort of propelled by a historic eight point game against Ohio State. And he was in the second half, one of the most productive players in college hockey. He finishes fourth in college hockey scoring this season and he has at year's end, the 50 point season that you maybe expected he would have when he, when he entered college hockey as a freshman. But the drafts on ESPN tonight, this is the kid who made his announcement on SportsCenter. Like, there has been a huge swell of attention around Gavin McKenna his whole life. He's from the UConn and there are all sorts of sort of historic firsts around him. And now I think we're going to see him be the next first overall pick of, of the Toronto Maple Leafs. And there's some history in that too. It's. It's a pretty short list. It's Austin Matthews, it's Wendell Clark, and it's now likely Gavin McKenna.
- [07:32]
Max Boltman
Chris, how's he stack up to some of the recent first overall picks we've seen?
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Scott Wheeler
Yeah, you know, I think he's probably behind the guys like a Macklin celebrity, let's say, and a Matthew Schaefer, which were franchise defining picks. And I think that that's the thing. You have to manage expectations a little bit. The good news for Gavin McKenna here is that he doesn't have to go into Toronto and be the guy. They have the guy. And now he's got to be a complimentary piece, which I think is a good situation for him. I've said it a lot this year and you guys have heard me. If you guys watch the Athletic Hockey show, there aren't a lot of number ones in this class. There's a lot of guys that I think would be more comfortably suited in twos and threes. Gavin McKenna, however, does have that potential to be 100 point winger, which is hard to find. Not a lot of teams build through the wing. Toronto doesn't have to build through the wing. They already have their core in place.
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Corey Pronman
You project him as a 100 point
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Scott Wheeler
winger, that's basically like that's the top of the projection. I see him as an all star player, as a potential 90 to 100 point winger. Yes.
- [08:26]
Chris Peters
And I think at five on five, there's going to be a huge adjustment period for him. I think we've talked about it a little bit on the show, but I think a little bit back to Jack Hughes and some of the struggles that Jack hughes had at 5 on 5 on the power play. Gavin's going to run the half wall from day one. If he's with the Toronto Maple Leafs, which we all expect he will be, he's likely going to flank opposite William Nylander on their power play. That's going to be a dynamic element of his game early. I'm not sure that the 5 on 5 play isn't going to come with a lot of learning.
- [08:55]
Max Boltman
All right, so what you just said though is he's going to run the half wall for the Toronto Maple Leafs. There's a pretty good half wall player on the Toronto Maple Leafs right now that perhaps the best goal scorer in the National Hockey League right now. Are you pushing Matthews to the bumper
- [09:06]
Chris Peters
I think that, I think Matthews probably plays the bumper and you probably have Willie and Willie and Gavin on the half wall.
- [09:12]
Max Boltman
I, I can see the logic to it. And obviously being able to score from the bumper is a huge asset. You want McKenna's playmaking on the outside. It's just one of those interesting things that they're going to have to manage right away in year one.
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Scott Wheeler
Corey.
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Max Boltman
I mean, it comes down to like, you make this pick, that's one thing. You get the player in your system, then how you maximize that player is a whole other question for an organization.
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Corey Pronman
I almost wonder if you do like the five forward set of. You put McKenna at the point that might be. That'd be something I would distribute. Think about. Because you see that at the lower levels, not much in the NHL, the lower levels, when you have don't have that number one elite skill defenseman, which is an element underlying this decision for the Toronto Maple Leafs, that is potentially a direction they could go.
- [09:47]
Max Boltman
Yeah, Chris, I mean, it's not usual to have two wingers, especially two smaller wingers at the very top of a draft class. We're used to talking premium positions, centers and defensemen. What else stands out to you about the shape of this draft class?
- [10:00]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, I mean, the shape is, you know, when you do have two wingers like that, you're hoping that the next phase is going to have those centers and defensemen. And that absolutely is the case. And it's particularly, particularly in defensemen. I think that that's where we've seen a lot of those players are right now. And I'll tell you, like, the biggest thing that, that this class has is when I said they don't necessarily have that number one, that number twos and threes and fours and fives, those, that group is big. So that's a lot of defense. We're talking Chase Reed, then we're also talking about guys like Carson, Carl, we're talking about Dax and Rudolph further down, Albert Smith, you know, so there's a pretty big clump of players the team should be very excited about including those guys. And then centers like Caleb Malhotra, Viggo Bjork, and the list goes on and on. I think that the top 13, 14 of this draft is really enticing.
- [10:43]
Max Boltman
Before the picks start flying tonight, I want to ask you guys a couple of questions about the trades that we saw this week. And there's two in particular that I think are fascinating. Let's start with the one that involved the number four overall pick. Because the Chicago Blackhawks do they make a play and they go get Bowen Byram. They could have used that fourth overall pick on a defenseman who projects to become as good, maybe even better than Bowen Byron, but they want to win right away. My question is, or get better, at least right away. My question is, is the, are the Chicago Blackhawks in a position to be making this kind of move with that level of asset right away?
- [11:11]
Chris Peters
Scott, they almost don't have a choice. They cannot dwindle at the bottom of the standings forever. It's already been a long time. I know Connor, Connor Bedard was only 2023, but that's three years ago. And it could be, they could be right back there this year and they need, I think there's a lot of pressure there for them to accelerate, for them to find a player who can run the point on the power play. If they're not confident that Artie Love Shunov or Sam Renzel, who they toyed with last year on the power play, can be that guy, then you have to find that guy. And he is that guy. Ironically, he's a former fourth overall pick. So you're trading a fourth overall pick for a fourth overall pick. But there's some risk. He's dealt with concussions. He has not been a number one. He played behind Kale McCarthy. He played behind Rasmus Stallion. He played alongside Owen Power. This is a huge test now for Bo, who has wanted to be that. Well, now you're that and you're that on a team that has to get better.
- [12:05]
Max Boltman
Corey, on the Buffalo side of this, like this was a playoff team this year. They finally take the step. They finally break their drought and now they're trading away a now player for, for an asset, right, for a draft pick. Now they could use it in a trade, but let's say they make this pick. I mean, what is the timeline of a fourth overall pick to help a team like the Buffalo Sabres?
- [12:21]
Corey Pronman
I think you're probably looking at least if it is Reid, if it is Malhotra, you're probably looking at least one to two years in college, I would imagine. So you're probably hoping that they're going to materially help your team by year three. I understand the hesitancy in that regard. But for the Buffalo Sabres, I think you look at this team, it's still a really young team. And despite the playoff success and the really strong season, I could still see there being some, some growing pains there. Will the goaltending repeat what it did last year. So I think you look at this team now that doesn't really have a premium center prospect. If they end up with Caleb Malhotra in this draft, I think you could really see a really good fit both in the way he plays more of a two way guy, really high iq, and as well being able to play the middle and project as a top two line center for the Buffalo Sabres in a couple of years when I really think that's when the core will get to the contending status.
- [13:13]
Max Boltman
And the Sabres have centers, but they probably don't have, I mean, when you talk about, you know, Consta Hellenius, Noah Olson, these are good young centers, but probably don't have quite the same high lineup impact upside as Malhotra.
- [13:23]
Corey Pronman
Yeah, they play a lot of the same ways, but Those guys are 5 11. Malhotra is closer to 6 2. There's a little bit more pro projection upside there, I think in his game.
- [13:31]
Max Boltman
Yeah, absolutely. And then on, on the Sharks trade Chris, I mean, the San Jose Sharks already win the lottery and get the number two overall pick. Then they make the trade for sending William Macklin to Ottawa. They get the ninth. What's the significance of that move?
- [13:42]
Scott Wheeler
Well, I, I think it kind of telegraphed at least a little bit what we think we're going to see them do here tonight in the draft, which is Ivar Stenberg potentially being the number two pick and now still getting a pick later that they can use on a defenseman that we've said they so sorely need.
- [13:55]
Max Boltman
Yeah, absolutely.
- [13:57]
Corey Pronman
I really like that trade because I think when you looked at this draft class, as Chris said before, I think the top end, there's some really good players, but it's not the one two at the top that you're used to seeing. But I think this draft, from 5 to 10, from 6 to 10, it's actually, I would say slightly, if not notably above average in terms of the caliber of player you can get from the 6 to 10. So I think the Sharks really navigate this well. They get a guy who they're going to have top two on their list in Stenberg, and then they get a defenseman later on who's a very strong prospect for the range that they're in.
- [14:26]
Max Boltman
And Scott, I mean San Jose, as they make that pick on a defenseman, we assume it'll be a defenseman at nine or at least that. That seems like where it would be headed. There's kind of a thought that, okay, it's going to be the last of a group of defensemen here. You've done Some reporting though, talking to NHL scouts and Excel execs. You can get very different orders on that group. It's very possible that they could end up with a defenseman who was maybe their second or third defenseman in this.
- [14:48]
Chris Peters
Yes, this group of five is close. I did an NHL scouts and executives poll in advance of the draft this year and I asked them a simple question. Who's first in that group of five for you? Who's last in that group of five for you, all five guys got a last place vote. Three of the guys got a first place vote and the guy who got the most last place votes, Dax. And Rudolph, who is probably the consensus guy that you'd expect to be there for the Sharks at nine, was also one of the three players who got a first place vote and nearly got two first place votes. There was one scout who said that he was, he was neck and neck with, with a couple of other players there. So this, that group is strong and all five of those guys have been top end players domestically. They've had international moments where they've, where they've shined. It's a, it's a very good group. They've all got good size, they can all skate, they can all make plays. I think it's conceivable that all of them run an NHL power play. That's a rare find in the draft
- [15:44]
Corey Pronman
and I did hear that when they made that trade, I think one of their dream targets was getting rudolph at the 9 pick. I think there's a lot of passion for Dax and Rudolph in the league. As we get closer, I, I feel like he's going to be gone by nine, but he could still be there at the ninth pick.
- [15:58]
Max Boltman
And the right shot makes a lot of sense for San Jose.
- [16:00]
Chris Peters
Right?
- [16:00]
Max Boltman
I mean their, their big defenseman right now is Sam Dickinson. He's a lefty. And if you, I mean he's also, maybe he's got offense. I don't know he's necessarily going to run their top power play. Rudolph at least has the potential to run that top power play play on the right side.
- [16:11]
Corey Pronman
I think he's one of the two defensemen in this draft. Him and Chase Reed have a chance to run. I don't think they're guarantees, but they have a chance to run top power play in the National Hockey League.
- [16:18]
Chris Peters
And I think Rudolph's playoffs, he took a team that had no business frankly going to the WHL final and playing as well as they did against, against Everett. He took that Prince Albert team there. He was Their leading scorer as a defenseman, he was their best player. I think that's, that helps solidify him because there had been moments internationally, there had been moments where some of these guys had outplayed him. I think that put him in this conversation.
- [16:41]
Max Boltman
Yep. All right. And as, as you say that the first pick is up, Gary Bettman at the podium right now, and the Toronto Maple Leafs about to make their selection. He's going to, he's going to vamp a little bit here. So let me just keep.
- [16:53]
Corey Pronman
We did see a phone call to Gavin McKenna right beforehand.
- [16:56]
Scott Wheeler
What do you think? That was about, like, so weird time to take a phone call. Yeah, but no, this is, yeah. You know, right now we're seeing Gary get booed, which we all enjoy. We love all the, this being in Buffalo, the fact that Toronto. I think he enjoys it. He loves it. He loves it. And we love it, too. But, yeah, but I mean, now, what a moment. What a great moment for, for Toronto. And here comes the guy, Justin Bieber, to announce the pick.
- [17:22]
Max Boltman
Who else could you have introduced? The Toronto Maple. I mean, you could actually have a lot of people Will Arnett, but Justin Bieber, I mean, that's, Yeah, I think, yeah. A little higher famous fan probably has to be.
- [17:32]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah. And you're not bringing out the Biebs just to make like a pick. A pick. No, this is got to be one. This has got to be one. I, I, I'm, and I presume he
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Corey Pronman
doesn't want to get booed. So I feel like we kind of an idea where this is going right now.
- [17:45]
Chris Peters
Sabres Sabers fans have to be getting tired of the Leafs picking first overall when they hold the draft 20 to remind people, 2016 was the Auston Matthews draft and it was. This draft was held in Buffalo, New York.
- [18:00]
Max Boltman
Easy for Leaf fans to get to Buffalo if they want to watch their, their, their future star get picked.
- [18:06]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, this is, this is an interesting, you know, dynamic here. We've talked about the central centralization of the draft and how we'd love to see that happen again. But, you know, you can, you can make it a little bit nicer with these, these little. Hey.
- [18:22]
Max Boltman
I recall several celebrities at the Vegas draft and that was a fully centralized, fully.
- [18:27]
Chris Peters
I was Celine Dion.
- [18:28]
Scott Wheeler
I was I running to the elevator to get better Internet in the sphere when Celine Dion made the pick and I missed it. So I was in the elevator.
- [18:36]
Max Boltman
Who are you most starstruck by at that draft?
- [18:40]
Scott Wheeler
Ivan Demidoff, Marshawn Lynch. And there it is.
- [18:45]
Max Boltman
Yeah, it's Gavin McKenna going to the Toronto Maple Leaf score. We talked about the level of prospect he is and we kind of hinted at as we talked about past top overall picks, how quick can his impact be on the Toronto Maple. It's a team that's, you know, whether it's adding Darren Radish, like they've positioned themselves to try and get better next year. How much can he help them in
- [19:00]
Corey Pronman
that he should be one of their off leaders next year. That Gavin McKenna is the most talented player in this year's draft. He is the most skilled player, he is the smartest player. He is the one with considerably the best scoring track record over the course of his amateur career. He is a dynamic offensive player. The issues as, as Scott alluded to earlier are going to come down to the compete level. I personally don't view his compete level as a major issue. I think, you know.
- [19:26]
Chris Peters
Yeah.
- [19:26]
Corey Pronman
Does he get to push the perimeter a little bit? Yes. Is he going to be the most physical? Probably not. But this is a guy who over the course of shown up in big moments, who has been a leader on his team, who game in and game out gets onto the score sheet. I do think is the compete one of the top two or three things that get you excited about McKenna? Probably not. But I look at guys in the league like Mitch Marner, like Artemi Panarin on the high end, like Nikita Kucherov. I don't think he's Kuchov, I think he's closer to Panarin. But these are very reasonable comps that NHL scouts do not push, push aside when you bring their names up in regards to McKenna. And I expect he will be a top line forward and a top power play flank option for a long time for the Toronto Maple Leafs.
- [20:09]
Chris Peters
And if some people, some people go as far as to throw around Nikita Kutrov and Patrick Kane and those are the players he uses for himself. Those are hall of Famer, some of the greatest wingers in the history of the game. But that's, that's what that he brings out that kind of skill level, that kind of playmaking, the hockey iq, the ability to pick you up apart from the perimeter and to slow it down. He's not a super high pace player. Like he plays it at his speed and everybody has to kind of work around his speed. But there are very, very few players that bring about those names.
- [20:41]
Max Boltman
And just a reminder, we're doing analysis for every pick throughout the night. We're not going to be showing the draft itself. That's a separate thing. But we got a lot of analysis to come, starting with this Gavin McKenna pick.
- [20:51]
Scott Wheeler
Chris, I mean, you know, this is, this is an incredible opportunity for, for McKenna, but it's, you know, an incredible opportunity for the Leafs to really kind of start this new administration off with a bang. The thing that I will say is I think fans are going to have to be patient. Scott talked about it earlier. This could be a very much like a Jack Hughes esque entry into the NHL just because Jack Hughes made a, had a, had a more difficult transition. But nobody's complaining about that now, you know, like that. That's one of the things. And I think that when you have the IQ, when you have the skill level that Gavin McKenna does, you find a way. What I loved earlier this week, he was asked about, you know, playing with Auston Matthews and how many players are going to say, I'm, you know, I can't wait to play with a great player like that. I, I'm, you know, he was talking about how he can help Auston Matthews the way that he can compliment Austin Matthews. That takes a really mature and confident player. No one has ever doubted that he's lacked confidence, that's for sure.
- [21:42]
Chris Peters
And Jack Hughes didn't have that. So right when when Jack came in and had some of the troubles and the scoring maybe wasn't where it needed to be. Same same thing with Nathan McKinnon in his early years in Colorado. They were not entering into a franchise that had Auston Matthews and William Nylander and John Tavares and potentially Matthew Nyes. And the star power up front in Toronto, even without Mitch Marner is still very real. And I think that's a separator for what the point totals at least might look like in these first couple of years.
- [22:09]
Corey Pronman
Just a note from Elliot Friedman that it would be Boston's first round pick this year going to Utah in the JJ Paterka deal. So it looks like 23 just got moved.
- [22:19]
Scott Wheeler
Wow.
- [22:19]
Max Boltman
Okay, so we will definitely get to that one as the show progresses. Another trade coming in and what has been a super lively one. I just wanted to go back as you talked about kind of McKenna playing with Matthews. I mean, much in the same way that we talked about with Chicago, trading that pick because they need to succeed soon, you know, for the sake of Connor Bedard. A lot of urgency in Toronto. I mean, Austin Matthews contract ticks away. I mean, this is a situation where they have to get better quickly to show Auston Matthews that there's a path to winning.
- [22:45]
Chris Peters
I think that's A huge underlying layer to this conversation. Chase Reed, a couple of these defensemen, Keaton Verhoff, earlier in the year were talked about at least peripherally in the first overall conversation. Corey touched on it earlier. It can take a year or two of college to get those players ready. And look around the league already left. Shunov, Simon Nemech, Zayn Perek, Sam Dickinson, Zeve Boyem. Even once they spend their two years in college, some of those kids get to get to the NHL level, especially the young defenseman. And it can take two, three, four years. Some of them get traded. Nemet already traded. David Yurichek already traded. These are top 10 picks as defenseman. That isn't always that that transition isn't as difficult for, for some of the forwards coming into the league. He's going to get to make plays. He's going to have more of an immediate impact in those two, three, four years that it can take defenseman to get there.
- [23:36]
Corey Pronman
The concern is, and it's the name that Chase Reed has often been compared to, does he do his two years in college and then he comes out and he's Zachary? That is obviously the major fear for the Toronto Maple Leafs. But I think the point you guys made is, is valid, is, and it seems to be what their general manager John Chaika echoed in his press conference a couple of days ago is that this, you know, there is this opportunity here with Matthews and they've got it and they have to maximize it.
- [24:00]
Max Boltman
Yeah. I mean, you could argue that Ivar Stenberg could be as projectable as NHL ready right now, even though, you know, yeah. McKenna makes the move to the NCAA. We presume in part to prepare himself for the NHL probably in large part. But Ivar Stenberg in for Lunda has been playing against men and had excellent, near historic results in the shl.
- [24:18]
Chris Peters
Chris.
- [24:18]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, I mean, and he's also, we've seen him at the World Championships playing with and against NHL players. You know, I think that there's a lot of evidence there that he is potentially going to be the more NHL ready player. But you know, that's the thing that you have to really focus in on and be patient about is that that's not the point. What you do in your rookie season is great for that short term thing, but it's all about what you're going to do later. I mean, if you look back at Nathan McKinnon's, I mean, like we were just talking about his rookie, they were very concerning kind of signs and he wasn't like he was bad, he was good, but it was like, anyway, yeah, he won the Calder, but he was like 50. But it was like 50 some points. And everybody's like, oh, you know, he's. And then the following year was even a little bit more like still growing pains. And so, you know, that's the thing is like, if Gavin McKenna doesn't win the Calder Trophy or, you know, doesn't have all this, you know, success immediately the way that some of these other guys have, it's not a death knell. He's. He's a really good player. You're going to have to be more patient. But yeah, I mean, now this is part of the vision you're selling Auston Matthews. This is the part of the vision that you're saying, okay, we're taking steps, we're not stepping back. This was a, this was a setback of a season. This is a one off. You can't. And that's the thing that I think really is important, is that he is a, A kind of a dawn of a new beginning in some ways, but in a lot of ways it's still kind of a continuation of the trajectory that they were hoping they were on before last season.
- [25:41]
Chris Peters
You also don't commit eight by eight to Darren Rad.
- [25:44]
Max Boltman
Yeah.
- [25:45]
Chris Peters
Who's 30 years old coming off of a career year. If you think.
- [25:48]
Corey Pronman
Scott, question for you, because I know you among us, you probably follow the Maple Leafs the closest. There is going to be an analogy maybe between McKenna and Mitch Marner. They're not exactly the same players. Marner is a better, better two way player. And despite how dynamic an offensive player Marner is at the same age, you'd argue McKenna's ahead, if not notably ahead offensively. They tried that core for a long time. They struggled to have playoff success. Do you think with McKenna they can get over the hump?
- [26:16]
Chris Peters
I don't know that they're prepared to get over the hump. As the roster is currently constructed, they have a lot of work to do and I think the biggest hurdle that they face is the Atlantic Division. The Montreal Canadiens are better. The Buffalo Sabers are better. The Florida Panthers are going to be back next year. That is inevitable. That part of it, I think, challenges the Leafs in a unique way, is that they are in the toughest division in hockey, and frankly, they've been in the toughest division in hockey. But you still have to put your best foot forward as an organization and you have to try to win around Auston Matthews. Auston Matthews is 29 years old. William Nylander is going to be turning 30. Yeah, the clock is ticking on this core a little bit here, whether it, whether they win. With this current era though, you still have Gavin McKenna now as a bridge that you weren't expecting to have to. Whatever comes next. And whatever comes next could be a full on rebuild potentially if Austin decides. And we've seen a lot of players just make the decision to leave their markets this week. But that, that's a tricky, tricky path for them to navigate. It gets less tricky with Gavin McKenna in the fold.
- [27:24]
Max Boltman
They also don't own their next two first round picks. So what other option do they have? Philly and Boss. If they are bad, Philly and Boston are the ones who reap the benefit of that. You might as well push. And that's, I think that's part of the logic with the Darren Radish deal as well.
- [27:35]
Corey Pronman
Right.
- [27:35]
Max Boltman
I mean, you mentioned it. You don't sign a guy to that kind of contract if you think you're just kind of murky.
- [27:40]
Chris Peters
Right.
- [27:40]
Max Boltman
You're doing it for a purpose. And I think a big part of that is Toronto really can't do a traditional rebuild right now.
- [27:45]
Chris Peters
Regardless, I do think the Leafs benefit from the cap scaling up like it's going to over the next few years too. Teams are going to have a tougher time spending to the cap. The Leafs will not be one of those teams.
- [27:55]
Corey Pronman
I think the question is just the blue line still. And I mean goal setting is going to be a question there too. But really on the blue line. I like Darren Radish, I like the brain, the shot compete, the athleticism isn't great. He's not a premium defender. There's a lot more work to do there that to add on that part of part of their roster before they can really be, I think, you know, a high end team again.
- [28:15]
Max Boltman
They might not be done with the movement there either. Morgan Riley, Brandon Carlo, names that have kind of been out there in the rumbling mill already.
- [28:21]
Chris Peters
Tan has to stay healthy. Like they cannot win without Tanf staying healthy next year.
- [28:26]
Max Boltman
Yeah, absolutely. San Jose Sharks are on the clock. We talked about, you know, Chris potentially telegraphing his pick when they made that trade earlier in this year. If it is indeed Ivar Stenberg, the Fernda winger, how do you put into context kind of what he was able to do?
- [28:39]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, I mean, you know, you look at the numbers historically, he is, you know, one of the, the elite scorers of the SHL in his draft year. And that is, you know, the only two guys that had More points than him were Daniel and Henrik Sedin. You know, so that's one element of it. I think the other element is, is that, you know, you go back to the playoffs last season, you see he was a guy that was a driver for them and then they still would rely on him in a lot of key situations. Then he goes to the Worlds and he goes to all those things. He has done it already for a lot of teams and he does have that NHL readiness to him.
- [29:11]
Max Boltman
The celebrity run continuing here. By the way, Layla Edwards going to be announcing.
- [29:15]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah. The newest San Jose PWHL player. I mean, elite herself right there.
- [29:20]
Max Boltman
Is it a defenseman?
- [29:22]
Scott Wheeler
Is that tip of hand towards a defenseman that. Well, see, she also plays forward.
- [29:25]
Chris Peters
She plays both.
- [29:26]
Scott Wheeler
Oh, so it really does.
- [29:27]
Max Boltman
It's the opposite.
- [29:28]
Scott Wheeler
There's literally nothing we can glean from this at this point. Anything more than we saw from the trade. So, yeah, here we go. I mean, like, I'm glad we're getting to this now because it felt like that was a long time. And there he is.
- [29:38]
Max Boltman
It is Ivar Stenberg to the San Jose Sharks. Scott, this is a player who, you know, such a likable game. This is a very pro translatable player that San Jose is getting. How soon can he make an impact for them?
- [29:49]
Chris Peters
Immediately. He expects to play in the league next year. He has informed for Lunda that he's going to be playing in the league next year. And I think we talked about the NHL readiness. I think he's the most NHL ready player in the draft. I know Albert Smith has played a ton of pro hockey, played at the Olympics, played at men's worlds. Ivar is going to join that team in its top six. He's going to be on their top power play. And I think about pairs with the Sharks now and what could be. Coaches love pairs they now have and we'll see what those pairs look like. Backlin Celebrini and Will Smith have developed clear chemistry. They're clearly close off the ice. They clearly click on the ice. You've got Michael Misa as your second line center of the future, second overall pick a year ago. Now you have a second second overall pick to potentially pair with Michael Misa. You fast forward 3, 4, 5 years and you start to wonder what that looks like and what those players in the prime of their careers, now they're going to have to pay them and there will be a time when they become in a very expensive group similar to what happened in Toronto. But Stenberg, I think steps into the league next year. I wouldn't be surprised if he has a 50, 55 point year next year and is on Calder ballots. And in that kind of conversation, who
- [30:56]
Corey Pronman
do you think is more skilled, him or Will Smith?
- [31:00]
Chris Peters
Pure, pure puck skill. One on one game, I think Will probably edges Ivar. Yeah, but he's way harder on pucks. He's a way more complete, complete player at the same age.
- [31:09]
Corey Pronman
You know, we talk about how San Jose needs defenseman and they do, they still need a lot of defenseman. But you looked on that team and the gap between Celebrini and the next best forward on that team had to have been near historic for the modern era. Like he was so leaps and bounds better than another player. So you get not only an elite skill player in Stenberg, but also a guy who's going to win those battles like Mac does at even strength, who's going to be a factor in all three zones. And I think if you're the Sharks, you say, yes, we do need a defenseman, but we also needed a player like this. Michael Misa is very skilled. He's not an elite player in terms of offense. Will Smith could be that, but he lacks the competitive element. Stenberg brings all of those elements to the Sharks.
- [31:53]
Max Boltman
And that's a point you make about Will Smith. Like very similar game to Gavin McKenna. Right. And so if it had gone in reverse, we might be having a different conversation here in terms of the duplication, but instead you start to see kind of a real identity forming. You talk about the rhyme and celebrity and Stenberg guys who you trust below the offensive goal line to go win you a puck, kick it to the middle to somebody else.
- [32:11]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, I mean this is, this to me is a real hand to glove fit in terms of the forward group. And I know a lot of Sharks fans wanted to see this because a lot of people believe that Ivar Stenber is an exceptional talent. He was. You know, we did our TSN scout poll that I did with Craig Button this year. Ivar was on number one on a number of ballots. And so it is. And that has been the case throughout the year. And I think it's that completeness to his game, the fact that you have Celebrini, who's an absolute dog. Stenberg doesn't have that same level of compete, but he's not, it's not a huge drop off. He's strong, he's a strong kid. He has a willingness to get to the middle. I mean, that was the thing that when, when People were talking about Stenberg as a rival to McKenna in the draft order. It was because of that willingness and ability to get to the interior and to play in these tough areas. And I think he's a really. That's, that's going to be something that the Sharks need. And now they still have that pick later. There's going to be a defenseman there. We don't know which one. But now they still have that opportunity to get some defensive help.
- [33:10]
Chris Peters
We talk.
- [33:11]
Corey Pronman
How would you construct their top power play unit next season?
- [33:13]
Scott Wheeler
Oh, yeah, what a good question. I mean, I think at this point that's, that's, that's the thing like you got obviously Celebrity. I think you've got such an elite distributor in, in Will Smith. You want to make sure he's got the puck on his stick a lot. You know, Ivar was working the half wall for, for Sweden. He was more of a downhill player and I think that's a good spot for him to be as a more of a downhill shooter. Then you kind of go, yeah, I'd have to think about it a little bit more in terms of the net front and the bumper. But I mean there's fully maybe, yeah, it's a full. Like they're, they have good options, but I think I absolutely have Stenberg with that unit. I think you have, you know, Celebrity and then, you know, the defense group. You got a couple of options there.
- [33:52]
Corey Pronman
So your two flanks are celebrating and Smith or Celebrity and Stenberg, well, they
- [33:57]
Scott Wheeler
mean Max got to be on the one timer spot. But I think, you know, you can look at Will as a distributor, maybe a guy that's at the bumper even too.
- [34:05]
Corey Pronman
I asked because the luxuries they have. Because you also have Igor Chernyshev who is, has the, the size, has the skating, has the ability to win battles. So I do wonder if Stenberg is in that initial prime position right away. Does, what is Michael Misa's offense look like long term on this team, despite the fact that he does have a lot of skill? I'll be really interested to see how they use all these options. And given that they don't really have any elite offensive defenseman back there, that could change. They have a lot of cap space. Maybe they do try that five forward setup at some point.
- [34:35]
Chris Peters
I wonder if the men's world sealed this for the Sharks too. Like it felt, it felt like that was a bit of a turning. We talk all the, all the time about these kids, the decisions they make or don't make on going to Men's worlds. I think it made a difference for him seeing him play with Lucas Raymond on a top line for team Sweden against NHL players and have the kind of success that he had. Even after everybody says, we've, we've done the, we've done the work, we've seen these players play, we know what they look like, we don't need these final viewings, that kind of a thing. Sometimes those final viewings can really push a guy over the edge.
- [35:08]
Scott Wheeler
And one quick point, he continues the streak. Every guy that scored eight or more points in the last whatever set 10 years has gone no lower than second in the NHL draft.
- [35:18]
Max Boltman
All right, let's go to the team that's on the clock right now. Corey, you talked about how this was the Vancouver Canucks. This is a pivot point in this draft class for a team that is as early in a rebuild as the Vancouver Canucks are. How do you approach a situation like this for that? And obviously they have premium positions to choose from, but how do you ballpark how you would approach something like this?
- [35:35]
Corey Pronman
Well, for me, the best player available is the one who would create the least controversy, and that is defenseman Chase Reid from. From the Sioux. I think he is the best prospect on the board. I think really highly of Caleb Valhotra, who ends up being the pick here.
- [35:46]
Max Boltman
Yep.
- [35:47]
Corey Pronman
He is a potential top two line center at the next level. He is very smart, he can skate, he's very competitive. I do. My thought process would have been if it's close, and I think it's close and I think the Canucks had some passion for some other players. What do you really kind of put yourself into this awkward position now? The one argument against that with his dad being the coach is I think Caleb's going to need at least one, if not two full years of college.
- [36:15]
Chris Peters
I think this makes two more likely.
- [36:17]
Corey Pronman
Yes. I think you're probably waiting until year three where this becomes more of an issue. And if Manny Maldra is still the coach by year three, that means things are probably going good in Vancouver. So from that perspective, I can. I struggled with this. I probably wouldn't have done this if I was in their position, but I think he's a great player and a very reasonable pick a third overall.
- [36:37]
Chris Peters
And I will say too, I think they always knew that Manny was in their back pocket as a potential coaching option, but I think they knew that Caleb was their guy before they hired Manny. So Caleb, the interest and the excitement about Caleb if from the Vancouver Canucks was all year long, I reflect I've reported on it over the course of the last several months here they were there in Brantford constantly and there was a management change and Patrick Alvine exits and then Ryan Johnson's there and they're just there watching Caleb all year long. He was outstanding in the playoffs for the Brantford Bulldogs. The Brantford Bulldogs frankly fell short of expectations. The one guy on that team who didn't fall short of expectations at any point this year. He started on the third line, was the best player on their third line. They realized this kid's not a third line player. They started him on PP1. Even after they trade for Jet Lucchenko, he's still on PP1 and then into the playoffs. Better than Jake O', Brien, a top 10 pick a year ago like Caleb was CHL USA Prospects Challenge in November. We were all there in Calgary and Lethbridge. Who was the best player on the ice?
- [37:39]
Scott Wheeler
It was Caleb typically.
- [37:40]
Chris Peters
So this isn't a kid who was necessarily viewed as this coming in. Frankly. He was viewed as a second third round pick coming out of the BCHL last year and he just played his way into this mix and I think he belongs in this range.
- [37:51]
Max Boltman
Chris, here's what's interesting too is that Malhotra coming as that late riser, I mean shades of kind of Beckett Seneca here where you just keep rising and rising. I think maybe we knew by, I don't know, mid season that Malhotra was going to be talked about in this range, but it's still like where did you have him coming into the season?
- [38:07]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, coming into the season I didn't have him in the first round. I mean you, if you look back at the BCHL season that he had, it was not impressive. I mean in the BCHL is where points are plentiful. Good playoff. That's right. That's.
- [38:17]
Chris Peters
That's normally the signal.
- [38:19]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah. Which is a. Which I know that there were teams that absolutely were like looking at that is like we have one good year, you know, of elite level production that we can go off of, which I think was a thing that was absolutely part of the discussion. So that was one of one element of it. But really he started moving up really in that November range we were talking about like, oh, this is a good player. And then mid season you're like he's a really good player. And then the playoffs it was like this guy could go one. Like there were definitely teams that were starting to have that kind of feeling that this is a player. I mean you look at the size, you look at the compete, you look at the hockey sense, the background, the NHL bloodlines do play a role because these guys absolutely have, have lived it. They've been through it. There's a lot to it. Caleb Malhotra to me is a culture building player for the Vancouver Canucks. A team without an identity, a team that probably will not have one for a while and he's going to need some time. It's going to be kind of Manny Malhotra setting the identity now, but it's going to be Caleb Malhotra potentially being the flag bearer for the organization for a period of time here.
- [39:20]
Chris Peters
I embedded with the Brantford Bulldogs in the fall and spent a lot of time around that team the very first day of, as part of that embed for that feature, I sat down in the Office with Jay McKee and Spencer Hyman and I was asking them about O' Brien and Adam Banach and they steered me the other way and said, Caleb has, has been through seven or eight games at that point. Our very best player. He blew us away in training camp. He's a, like they were throwing around future NHL captain. And that was early, early, early future NHL captain. We think he's going to be a top five pick. Like there was, there was a period there early in the season where he just made a statement and then it never really led up. He didn't have the lull that, that frankly, Ivar Stenberg had a low late in the year in the SHL. Gavin McKenna had lulls. He was good all year long.
- [40:05]
Corey Pronman
You mentioned the captaincy, you mentioned the culture. I know the new general manager in Vancouver, Rian Johnson, said that was a key criteria for him. He said when he was, when he won in the American League, I think he said a large percentage of his players had either been a captain at some point in their careers. You could tell that's something that's important to him. Character, leadership, maturity. And Caleb has that on top of being a really good hockey player who does have a lot of offensive traits. The skating, the skill, the hockey sense. He, he is the complete package. I think you worry a little bit is the offense going to be special. But everything else about his game is pointing in the positive direction.
- [40:40]
Chris Peters
And I think we often miscast guys who are, who have those intangibles. The, the, the Two Way center moniker sort of comes with that default notion of maybe he's not a premium offense guy. He made some highlight reel plays this year. The hockey iq, the skating. He's still got room to fill out his frame, which Is I think very, very important. He's going to have time at BU whether it's a year or two years to, to add 5, 8, 10 pounds, that'll make a big difference.
- [41:05]
Max Boltman
Couple things before we get to the Buffalo Sabres who are now on the clock at number four. First of all, Corey, this is the scenario that you talked about on the Hockey show earlier this week where it forwards go, 1, 2, 3. We think that was kind of the scenario that Chicago worried about and maybe why they're willing to trade the fourth overall pick. Another one. There is another trade here. Molly Walker reporting that the Rangers have traded for Pavel Dorothea from the Vegas Golden Knights. It's not the number five pick, she reports. It's the number 26 pick, 92 and a conditional 2028 first round pick. So another big name changing hands. And Dorothy have had a really nice playoffs. Chris.
- [41:38]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, really good playoffs and I think he's a guy that has risen each year and that he's been in the league and I think, you know, that's the kind of player that New York really needs. They need somebody that can score some goals for him and I think he's going to add a lot to that. But yeah, I mean you just look at the way that draft picks are moving right now. I mean it is, it is pretty impressive and I think teams are feeling that pressure. They're feeling the way that they can utilize the cap to their advantage. And getting competitive is more important at this point than building up these futures. And the Rangers still have a great pick. But now that's a real, you know, a real piece that will help them right now.
- [42:11]
Corey Pronman
I think this should be read for Buffalo but I know that those guys had a lot of passion for Dax and Rudolph. If Rudolph's the fourth pick, that could be like the one big splashy moment of this draft. I would not rule that out as a possibility though.
- [42:23]
Max Boltman
Well, it's interesting and you mentioned earlier that you know, a former Buffalo Saber, J.J. j.J. Paterka gets traded from Utah where Buffalo traded him just a year ago to Boston. So wingers changing hands tonight. I don't know either of those prices is all that splashy. I think the pick pick in the 20s is the headliner and it's two first round picks. But you know, Dom had a great article today. I thought about what the value of a first round pick really is. Domusion on the athletic. It really falls off in a hurry. It's the top of the draft. You pick one, you know far and away what you want and Then you got, you know, two through seven, eight, nine, really strong value. Once you get past 15 or 16, it really drops.
- [42:57]
Chris Peters
Well, once we, we talked about the top 13 or 14 players in this draft off the top, once we get past those 14 names, we could probably all give 10 different names.
- [43:06]
Scott Wheeler
Oh, yeah. With the next easy.
- [43:07]
Corey Pronman
With easy pick, I think the draft will open up around 14. I think it will be a draft order that not everyone's going to recognize.
- [43:13]
Max Boltman
Yeah, absolutely. And that's why this fourth overall pick for Buffalo such a big deal. Because this is a team that was in the playoffs. You're not supposed to get picks this high once you make that leap. And Buffalo, look, they took, they, they took their lumps. They spent plenty of time making high picks, but they wanted to take that leap and they did. And now you kind of have this rare opportunity to get something really special at the top of the draft. And they are going to get something really special with the fourth overall pick. It's coming up any second here now. Yeah, that Josh Doane on stage there.
- [43:43]
Scott Wheeler
It is that the advantages you get
- [43:46]
Max Boltman
as a hometown team. It is Dax.
- [43:48]
Chris Peters
It is Dax and Rudolph. Corey with the shout.
- [43:50]
Scott Wheeler
Corey, Chris, Dax and Rudolph.
- [43:52]
Max Boltman
You mentioned, I mean, the playoff run for Dax and Rudolph is. It's one of those kind of late last statements in a draft season.
- [44:00]
Scott Wheeler
It was. And I mean, you know, you look at what he does and the offense that he brings to the table. There have been questions about, you know, Chase Reed versus Dax and Rudolph and who's going to have the higher offensive ceiling. Rudolph is a good shooter. He's got a lot of ability to move pucks. The skating and the mobility is there. I don't think any of us had Daxton in our mock drafts going here. Corey mentioned this possibility. Corey mentioned. Corey did, and he said it, but
- [44:25]
Corey Pronman
he just had him at seven, though.
- [44:26]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, exactly. And so the questions about the defending are going to be there. Like, I don't think it's a huge issue. Like, I think he's going to round out, he's got good enough size. But what I, what I think is going to be interesting here is just considering the way that we've had these conversations all year and the different players, how, you know, these guys are always going to be compared and contrasted with each other. So the fact that Bowen, Byron was traded, you kind of get a found money situation. Because there was a lot of talk about, you know, San Jose potentially moving, getting into a trade scenario with Buffalo and then seeing where that, that ninth pick could potentially be. So there's a lot of different scenarios at play here and so I'm. I'm fascinated by this one for sure. And I'll caught up, caught a little bit off guard.
- [45:14]
Chris Peters
His.
- [45:14]
Corey Pronman
I will, I will say that there was two in this draft and I didn't have Rudolph rated at this range where he went. So I'm not going to say that I agree with this or that I, that I would have done this if I was Buffalo. But there were two players this year who I watched and they had, they gave you the most oh my God moments or what. What the heck was that in terms of the skill. Gavin McKenna and for me Rudolph did the second most plays of that. You watch him in the Western League and when he was having his best games he was dynamic. He was a game breaker with the six two and a half frame, the skating, the skill, the hockey sense, the shot. Yes, he. There's a lot there worried if the defense is really going to be premium at the next level. I don't think his compete level is a major asset. Although this is a guy who now two years in a row has been a premium player in the playoffs both as a 16 and a 17 year old. So he has stepped up in the, in the big games and the hard games. So I see the argument. I couldn't get there. But there were times I watched Rudolph where I thought man, he could be the best defenseman in this draft.
- [46:12]
Chris Peters
Offensively in particular.
- [46:13]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, offensively. And the one thing I will say is that when we have seen him side by side, and you've said this before too, when we've seen him side by side with other top defensemen, he has not looked as good as those players.
- [46:25]
Corey Pronman
WHL showcase game, The Halinka, the CHL series, the U18s is an underage. He's never been a top player there. So this all comes down to how he looked in Prince Albert, which was unbelievable. But yes, when he has played with his peers, he has been a good, not great player. I. He'll be at the World Junior Camp this summer for Team Canada. We'll see how he looks there.
- [46:46]
Chris Peters
There are scouts, there are scouts who think that the numbers on Carl's and on Rudolph were inflated in a weaker WHL this year.
- [46:53]
Scott Wheeler
I agree with that too.
- [46:54]
Max Boltman
What's interesting though is I mean still
- [46:55]
Corey Pronman
a leading score on one of the
- [46:56]
Max Boltman
best teams on paper. I mean the profile between Chase, Reed and Dax and Rudolph has a lot of overlap. You would give Reed the better skating grade. Maybe so, maybe not necessarily so. Maybe it's only a higher grade.
- [47:07]
Chris Peters
I think the skating is average for Rudolph. Like I think the, the skating is a higher grade for Reed.
- [47:12]
Corey Pronman
For me I think Reeds competes a little bit better for me. But otherwise I think they're nearly identical players. That's why I could, I could see Buffalo struggled here and I think they probably looked at that and said Rudolph's nearly a full year younger. Probably his two year track record in the CHL for a 16 and 7 year old season. This is Chase Reed's 18 year old season. He probably thought this is more impressive. We like the projection a little bit more. But I think Reed especially when he showed you at the world juniors, I thought he showed you a higher level of defense and compete and will be able to shut down good players.
- [47:43]
Max Boltman
But you can use a lot of the same comparables, right? Like I thought of John Carlson for Dax and Rudolph when I watched him. I think that's one, at one point you even used on Chase Reed. So there are, there's a lot of rhyme in these two games and obviously this is going to be a conversation that continues, right?
- [47:55]
Chris Peters
These guys now these 5D are going to be measured against each other for the next 10 years.
- [47:59]
Max Boltman
What does this mean for the New York Rangers who go on the clock now, Corey? Because I don't know that they would have been expecting to have Chase Reed available to them. They also have some good right shot defensemen in their system.
- [48:07]
Corey Pronman
Well, when they were, you know, have seemed to have good odds to pick at the very top of the draft. The two names we had heard the most with them was Malhotra who goes a third at three and Chase Reed who seems to be a name we keep linking to teams but it doesn't go to any teams. And he seems to be available right now. I think there's a lot of D they like. We've been projecting Albert Smith to them throughout the process. Carson Carlson throughout the process. But I, I do believe there was a lot of passion that organization for Chase Reed. We'll see if he is the pick here, but I think that's who they are between I would be surprised to see Viggo Bjork not shocked but surprised to see Vgo Bjork's name called here
- [48:41]
Chris Peters
at 5th overall in my Scout Poll 8 of 13 had Chase Reed as their top guy and yet we've now seen the San Jose Sharks pass on Chase Reed when they defenseman the Chicago Blackhawks implicitly passing on Chase Reed because they knew that it was going to be A defenseman there and they wanted one of the forwards. And we've now seen the Buffalo Sabres who acquired that pick from the Chicago Blackhawks pass on Chase Reed. So it speaks to, there's not a uniformity on these, on these 5D.
- [49:08]
Scott Wheeler
No, there's not. And I think there's also concern about the risk profile of a Chase Reed, because we've talked about this all throughout the year, is that while the offense is higher end, the numbers weren't necessarily the highest end numbers that you would see. And you like the skating, you like the skill, you like a lot of the things that he does, but it's still, you're, you're, you're talking about a player that doesn't have a super long track record. And so that's another thing. But I, we've seen him at things like the world Juniors and others. I, I, you know, I just feel like he, he was gonna get there.
- [49:37]
Chris Peters
He was one of the very best players in the OHL this year.
- [49:39]
Corey Pronman
I say to someone who loves Chase Reed, I would not describe him as an offensive dynamo. I, I don't think he's gonna have 70, 80 point seasons in the NHL. That's not really what the projection. I just think he's a guy with no notable flaw, who checks every box, who you could just see having a very long and productive career playing high in an NHL lineup.
- [49:58]
Max Boltman
Were you surprised at all the Buffalo made that pick, Chris? I mean there was a lot of talk of could they flip this pick for now help. Whether that be Connor Hallebuck, whether it be Jason Robertson, Dylan Larkin. I mean, are you surprised they make the fourth pick?
- [50:08]
Scott Wheeler
I mean, a little bit. Because it would have been really funny to see what they got out of it considering the vitriol that it seemed like the Blackhawks were receiving for getting bone Byram. But, and it certainly, you know, I was critical of that as well. But, but I'd say that, you know, for, for the Sabres at this point you're just like, hey, we didn't expect to pick fourth. We're going to take our guy. And that's exactly what they did right there. And I think that that's, that's, that's a lot of conviction in, in your draft room on a player that says a lot.
- [50:33]
Chris Peters
We've also already heard Redeem Murtka, the ninth overall pick that they took a year ago. That's a defenseman two years in a row now. We've heard his name peddled about in trade rumors. I wonder if Radim Murtka gets moved here now.
- [50:46]
Corey Pronman
Well, you have Mirka. He had what, one or two goals in the Western League last year. You have Jackson rudolph. He's got 30 goals in the Western Hockey while being a full year younger. So it would make sense that one's replaceable. You can guess which one notable difference.
- [50:58]
Max Boltman
I mean, I do think it's interesting that like a win now, team like Buffalo goes that route though, and, you know, takes a defenseman who's going to take a year or two just to arrive.
- [51:05]
Chris Peters
I think he'll be, I think he'll be at Denver for two years.
- [51:08]
Max Boltman
Yeah, so. So two years to just arrive. And I mean, you can, you can justify it. I mean, you keep the, the window open perhaps a little bit longer that way as your stars, your Rasmus Dahleens, maybe start to get toward 30, maybe over 30 to have someone like that. All right, the New York Rangers pick is in and it is Albert Smith's court. So Chase Reed, not the pick for the Rangers. Instead, it's Albert Smith's, the Latvian. He spent the year playing in both the Finnish LIGA and the German Del, and he also played in the Olympics. I mean, this is a guy who's played a lot of hockey against men. What did you see from him?
- [51:38]
Corey Pronman
I. Every time I watched this player, he was just good or really good. This is a guy who in Finland, he was. Was really impressive against men in liga, goes in the gal playoffs and helps his team win games while just going transitioning to a new league, new team, very impressive overall there. He goes to the Olympics, plays against NHL players and has a lot of success. He goes to the world championships for Latvia. He's one of their best players. He's six' three. He can really skate. He has skill, he has a great shot. He competes. He is one of the more complete players in this year's draft. It's a very easy projection into a top four. He reminds me of Jacob Chikrin. Just the profile, the skating, the size, the shot. Maybe not elite hockey sense, but it's good enough, I think. And I can see him having a very long career now. I would have taken Reader, as you guys can see that. I would have taken Reader several other spots, but for me it was a dead tie from between Reed and Smith. So I think this is a very reasonable pick. I, you know, I think he's a great prospect and I think the New York Rangers got a lot better by making this pick.
- [52:40]
Chris Peters
And I think he. There's more offense there than he's been given credit when we've talked about and people in the public sphere have talked about Alberts all year, it's been he's the safe pick, he's the guy with pro experience. He's. He's got the physical traits. There is real offense there and we don't always get to see it when you're playing against men. Early on this season when he was playing junior hockey in Finland, now a weaker level, but early on there were some highlights like him beating four or five guys on a shift, circling the offensive zone, scoring some of the nicer goals that we saw a defenseman score this year. He looked like a man amongst, amongst boys there. I think if he were playing in the CHL this year, in the USHL this year in college hockey this year, we would have seen a lot, a lot of offense out of Albert Speaker.
- [53:25]
Max Boltman
Chris, When Chris Jury talks about this pick, I promise he's going to say that handedness played no factor. But having Adam Fox in the system for the New York Rangers as a prime age defenseman, having Braden Schneider, I mean I don't know that you can let handedness dictate your draft picks but do you think it played at all a role that Albert Smith is a pro ready left lefty as opposed to maybe Chase Reed?
- [53:42]
Scott Wheeler
I'm sure to a certain extent but I think it's more the profile of the player and I think the, the chance for him to be like they just made that trade for Pavel Darofia that we talked about. This is a team that is starting to make a little bit more noise in terms of like hey, we gotta move right now and we gotta do something. Albert Smith's definitely feels like the more pro ready player at this stage. So that's that to me he could
- [54:04]
Chris Peters
play games for them. Oh it's at MSG this year and,
- [54:07]
Scott Wheeler
and I think at worst he's playing in Hartford for a portion of the season and he's a call up away and that, that's, that gives you a lot of optionality as a team as well and I think that that was enticing to teams is that he's not only a guy that we're getting now, he's a guy that we can kind of control in terms of development and figure out where we're going to put him.
- [54:23]
Chris Peters
Long term though, the, the one hiccup if you will, that I've had with Alberts over the course of watching him both internationally and professionally this season is, it is instinctual. It's. He can chase it, he can scramble he can run around a little bit too much. That if anything I think is where we need to see him improve. I'm not sure he thinks it at the. At the level that a Dax and Rudolph or a Ryan Lynn or some of these other top defensemen do. But the instincts he relies heavily on
- [54:55]
Max Boltman
his instincts, the name Rangers fans are going to want to hear. Corey is more at cider. I mean another guy who was kind of off radars a little bit and then you know, through the del becomes a top NHL defenseman.
- [55:04]
Corey Pronman
He was bigger though, more physical. I think the profile. I'm not offended by the comp. I think at the same age they're probably close in what they are as prospects, but the player style is definitely notably different. No going to Calgary here for a second. We've mentioned Reed a lot in terms of where he might end up. I know Chris, when you did your scout poll there was at least one or two scouts that had read at first overall. Same thing when I talked to scouts. But another defenseman who get at number one is Carson Carls and then Carl's has been a name we've heard linked a lot to the Calgary Flames. I do wonder if Reed's slide ends here or if they in fact do opt for Carl's.
- [55:41]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, I mean it's a really interesting thing and we've talked a lot about the USA versus Canada thing too. Playing a factor into some of these trades or these picks rather. I don't know that it would for a lot of teams but I do think it would for Calgary a little bit. Even though they did take Cullen Potter last year in the first round. The opportunity to take a Western Canadian
- [55:59]
Chris Peters
farm boy at 6 overall and the lefty righty. Not that you're making decisions based off of Zane Perek or Brustavich. I think having him as a lefty who could play opposite a Zane Perek I do think is a part of the job.
- [56:12]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah.
- [56:13]
Max Boltman
You know how much I like Carson Carl Scott though. I mean the concussions do they scary at all for a player who likes to play as physical as Carson Carlos does?
- [56:20]
Chris Peters
No. My understanding is that the concussion that he suffered in that last with that knock in the last game of the year was a bit of a one off. It's not like he has a history of concussions in the way that a Maddox Deja Nee who we're going to see drafted here does have a history of three or four concussions. So wouldn't. It wouldn't be a major red flag for me or Anything.
- [56:41]
Corey Pronman
So I have heard there has been a concussion or two in the past. But you look at the games played, Lock, he doesn't seem to miss games. So I. I have a hard time seeing that was a serious concern. But I do know things the team talked a lot about, especially after he missed testing at the NHL combine.
- [56:56]
Max Boltman
The draft, like, the margin small enough that everything comes up.
- [56:59]
Corey Pronman
Yeah, I know for some teams, you know, for some teams, it was a tiebreaker. There were teams that, you know, had him rated super, super high, including at least one team that's already made a pick. But the. The tiebreaker, the concussion, the. Why go down that route did come into it. Yeah.
- [57:16]
Max Boltman
All right. The Calgary Flames making their selection as we speak.
- [57:20]
Scott Wheeler
And is there anybody better than Lanny McDonald? He made the picks for him last year. Just. Lanny should do everything ever.
- [57:25]
Max Boltman
Make every pick for the entire.
- [57:26]
Scott Wheeler
Make every pick, every team. Every team. That's what I would do. But I met Lanny last year at the draft. That was the highlight of the whole thing for me. The whole thing. I was like, best mustache in the game. Elite human being. Now I feel better for having met him.
- [57:40]
Max Boltman
That's really the biggest flaw of the show.
- [57:42]
Corey Pronman
It is Carl.
- [57:42]
Chris Peters
And it is Carl.
- [57:43]
Max Boltman
That's right. It is Carson. Carl.
- [57:44]
Scott Wheeler
Carson, Carl.
- [57:45]
Max Boltman
All right. I mean, this is a unique profile of defenseman. I mean, this is a really highly coveted profile when you blend the physicality. He has had a lot of offense. You mentioned there's some questions on the Western League offense this year, but he really produced well.
- [57:56]
Chris Peters
He produced in line with Dax and Rudolph, who. Who we're lauding as a future PP1QB here. He made some plays. He's a tremendous, tremendous skater. He's hard on pucks. He's weak. Chris alluded to it that the farm boy roots. He's got 500 head of cattle on the farm back in Manitoba. Like he's. He lives it. I do think that his comment. He made comments recently about not being a city guy and not agreeing with what goes on in cities. I wonder if that was a factor for the New York Rangers, who. Who made the selection directly in front of him.
- [58:26]
Scott Wheeler
Is that a big city?
- [58:27]
Chris Peters
But Cal, I think Calgary is a great fit and. And Carson's a tremendous player. He's the meanest of these 5D. Like, he is physical. He hits you to hurt you. He'll put you down in front of the net. He'll put you down in the corner. And he's a tremendous, tremendous skater. Like Carson can fly. And that's a combination that whether his offense is truly, truly high end, the skating, the physicality that is hard to
- [58:54]
Max Boltman
find, that that's the part that reminds me of Jake Sanderson in his draft year because Jake Sanderson took a lot of guff about you know, is the offense going to be high enough here. But when you saw Jake Sanderson skate, jump into a play, you saw the how for how the offense could come at the NHL level.
- [59:08]
Corey Pronman
I will say when I was at the WHL show Kiss game, Rudolph and Carl's both played well. I thought Carl's made way more plays and I think Rudolph's got a ton of skill in hockey since like I said before. But yeah, I, I don't know if that's going to be the main thing about Carl's get you excited. I think the defending is more exciting than the offense. But there is significant offense in his game.
- [59:25]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, I mean I, I think the player also the fact he's going to the University of North Dakota next year which is where, where did Jake Sanderson go? University of North Dakota. Yeah.
- [59:33]
Corey Pronman
So the scouts that had Carl over Reed always asking this question why is Reed consistently rated ahead of Carl's given that he Reed is both older and scored less than Carl's did this year. And you could argue Carl's is just as good if not a better defender. So I thought, you know, it was great questions. Obviously we've seen those concerns play out here. I think, I think Reed's slide ends here at Seattle. But it's obviously been something that's on their minds. The old that there was an elite offense, that the defense wasn't elite, that all these things are very good. But you know a late oh seven. You know there was maybe there was just nothing to hang your hat on and this why this guy is special like some of these other players were.
- [60:14]
Max Boltman
What is interesting as Seattle goes on the clock here at seven. I mean this is a team that has literally never drafted a defenseman in the first round. Now there is a forward on the clock here who fits their type. I think Viggo Bjork. You can make some, some comparisons to Berkeley cat and he's, he seems like a Seattle cracking kind of player but they almost have to take a defenseman
- [60:30]
Chris Peters
here and I think they will if they don't.
- [60:33]
Scott Wheeler
I, I, I, I would be absolutely stunned. I might not set, I might walk off the set.
- [60:38]
Chris Peters
I would not be stunned if it's still not Chase Reed. I have heard Keaton Verhoff connected to
- [60:43]
Scott Wheeler
man that it's it's certainly possible. I mean there's a lot of, there's a lot there. Really intriguing though but like a right shot guy that can move pucks and you know Fairhof, if there's any questions on the hockey sense factor, it's going to be really interesting. And then if he doesn't go there then you've got what happened. Like we're getting into a territory where San Jose could conceivably still get Chase Reed. Like, like it's, it's like. Do you think Winnipeg is going to pick them?
- [61:09]
Chris Peters
If Winnipeg needs the center, I think so.
- [61:12]
Scott Wheeler
It's, it's, it's really interesting. So now that, now that you've got Seattle here, I mean like to me it feels like a no brainer to be read but at the same time if it was anybody else, it just goes to show how jumbled these D were in terms of how people looked at him. We did that TSN poll, it was all over the map. They were all over the place. Scott did his poll as well. I mean there's a lot there that's happening. So now we're, we're just counting down the minutes here. Carson Carl's great fit for Calgary. Now Seattle has a big, big decision to make.
- [61:46]
Corey Pronman
I don't think I'm like breaking any news here. When you look at how Seattle has drafted since their inception that I believe they major supporters of Vigo Bjork and I think they highly value the player. But at some point you do need a draft, a defenseman. They have drafted plenty of guys who could play be top six forwards. Manny Veneers, Berkeley Cad and Jake o', Brien, Shane Wright. This seems like the prime opportunity to get your defenseman of the future to get your power play quarterback of the future. We'll see whether that's the direction they go.
- [62:14]
Chris Peters
They drafted Catton in a class that was like this one too with five or six, with five or six defensemen that they, they could have taken and they still took Berkeley who didn't have
- [62:23]
Corey Pronman
a great year last year.
- [62:24]
Max Boltman
No, no, Reed's your number one overall player. I know who you would take. I know it would be Reed. Make the case for Verhoff here.
- [62:30]
Corey Pronman
If you're Seattle, I think more of a playoff style player, 6, 4 competitive, good enough skater, you know I think you can, if you're really ambitious, connect the dot to him. And a guy like what like slaving look like in the playoffs? I don't think he's slaving but that would be the argument I think you know, but it is reach.
- [62:47]
Max Boltman
It is Chase Reed going to the Seattle Kraken. All right, Corey, it's your number one player. Chase Reed probably should not have fallen to seven here. What do you like about him?
- [62:54]
Corey Pronman
And I think when Seattle gets the podium after they're going to say they got their best defense prospect in this year's draft. Six, two and a half right shot, who's highly mobile, highly intelligent. He can break pucks out with. He can make plays from the offensive blue line. He's got skill, he's got good hockey sense. But it's not just the offense. This has come a competitive player. You saw we played against good players at the CHLM TDP series. He was killing penalties, making stops. Goes to the world Juniors. Arguably USA's best defenseman at the world juniors. You know, you know, got a lot of production despite not really getting the power to play time matched up good players just checks every single box for me. I know like there's no special traits like there would be for the Carson Carl's physicality or maybe Dax and Rudolph skill would be maybe a slight notch higher. But I think this guy's got plenty of skill point per game in the OHL the last two years. The trajectory too. A lot of these guys have been top prospects for years. Rudolph Carls, they've been top prospects in their age groups for years. Chase Reed a year and a half ago was playing the North American Hockey League. So I don't look at the late birthday does maybe as much of an issue as some others do. I think this is an elite prospect and I think Seattle Kraken just got a heck of a player.
- [63:59]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah. I mean I love this pick and I love, I love the way that this fell for Seattle because after the situation with Jason Robertson that they needed a break, they needed a win. This is a win. I see this as a win. Chase Reed was my number one defenseman as well. Yeah. You know, we all had him high on our list. I think that the offense is going to be there. I think he, you know, my comp for him is, you know, Zach Warrenski, if that's the top of his ceiling, that's an incredible player. That's, you know, we weren't. He just won the, the Norris Trophy. He's a guy that has. I think the defending is coming along like and I think he's going to a place where it's only going to come along further. He's going to have to defend to get the minutes to make an impact at Michigan State, they're not going to give him anything. And so this is going to be a great opportunity for him developmentally. He played so many minutes in the Sioux this year. One of the most utilized defensemen in the OHL this season and an absolute warrior too, on top of it. Like, is he. Is he going to. Is he going to slam you through the boards? No, but he is going to give you quality minutes. He's going to compete. And really, to me, one of the real defining moments of this season was at the World Juniors. Cole Hudson goes down with an injury. They go to the guy who couldn't even, you know, make a USHL team the year before to be their number one defenseman on the biggest stage on home ice. And I thought he was at that point their best player.
- [65:16]
Corey Pronman
I've heard whiskey a lot with Reed and I just like Rwinsky just won the Norris Trophy. Like, he's the elite, elite offense that, that one's a. I thought of more Seth Jones. I know you know Seth. Yeah, well, him for years when you were at the program, you know, does you think that's closer? Like, why were Wenski.
- [65:31]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, it's for me or Rensky. There's a bit more fluidity was game. I feel like there' I see like similar size profile. I also see just kind of the trajectory of like weren't these numbers grew and grew and grew and I think that that's really going to be something. Like he had a really great season in Michigan when he was drafted and you know, but it wasn't like monumental. Right. And so 17 year old. Yeah, he was a 17 year old. There's a lot of important factors there. But you like, you know, Noah Hannifin went ahead of him in the draft and so, you know, that was kind of. I've kind of seen this and now you look at where is he? He's picked number seven. Where was Zach Warrenski picked?
- [66:07]
Chris Peters
Seven or eight.
- [66:07]
Max Boltman
Seven, right?
- [66:08]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, eight. Yeah. So like, like I just feel like he has that kind of profile now. He's got a long way to go to get to that level. Like I'm saying style of player more than I'm saying the top of his projection. But I am thinking like, if he's on this trajectory now and he does two years at Michigan State, he's going straight into the NHL and he's making an impact now. This is the hard part for Seattle. They have not been very patient with their guys and they need to be with him.
- [66:34]
Chris Peters
I thought the OHL coaches poll was telling this year as well, the OHL polls, all of their coaches across several categories over the course of the season. We expected to see him as the top skater and the top offensive defenseman and rank highly in those categories. He was also named the second best defender in the OHL this year. In the oh, that was revealing. You speak to John Dean. You speak to Kyle Raftis. John Dean, the head coach in the suit. Kyle Raft is their general manager. They said if they put him forward for those a year prior, even though he was excellent in his first half season in the ohl, he would have been nowhere to be seen in the defending categories. Right. So it has come along very, very, very quickly. This was not a sheltered offensive defenseman. This kid played 25, 30 minutes a night for a year and a half.
- [67:22]
Max Boltman
I want to go back to the very first thing Chris said about this, this pick, right? Which is that Seattle needed a win.
- [67:26]
Chris Peters
Right.
- [67:27]
Max Boltman
And so what you're referencing there is that reporting came out last night that Jason Robertson had an opportunity to be traded to Seattle and sign A monster contract, $15 million a year, didn't want to do it. That's a huge number and it really can't be read as anything other than a little bit of an indictment of the Kraken and what they haven't yet done as a franchise, which is really make that meaningful progress in the way that, I mean, Vegas set a pretty unattainable bar, I think. But Seattle hasn't really come close to it. And they've made good picks. I think they've. They've kind of, in a lot of ways done it how you draw it up. They've drafted the premium centers with the high picks. Did they wait a little too long to take their first defenseman in franchise history? It's possible, but they need. They need a star to break through. Matty Beniers hasn't become a star. Who they pick second overall. Chase Reed has a chance to become that?
- [68:12]
Scott Wheeler
I think so. And I mean, I think that you needed that for. For Seattle. Like they still don't have an identity as an organization within the NHL players. Can I. They don't know what they are, but now we got another pick.
- [68:23]
Max Boltman
That's right. The Winnipeg Jets. Take Viggo Bjork, Scott and Vigo Bjork. Another one. Great player all year. Played at big events, played well at the world Juniors, played well at the world Championships. Just kind of kept rising up until he was right there in the conversation as the top center in the class
- [68:37]
Chris Peters
and became a kind of a favorite for everybody. We were. We had a conversation on the podcast earlier in the year where we doubted whether he would maybe be a first round pick. I know there were questions about the
- [68:47]
Corey Pronman
size being rated by NHL Central scouting coming into the season.
- [68:50]
Chris Peters
And he was phenomenal in all of the big moments over the course of the year. He started out on the wing in the shl. By year's end, he's the first line center for Jear Garden. And not just the first line center for your Garden, their matchup center. He was checking the Sweden national team. Yeah, he was the. Was he maybe better than Gavin McKenna and Ivar Stenberg at World Juniors?
- [69:12]
Scott Wheeler
Oh, yeah.
- [69:12]
Chris Peters
It's a conversation.
- [69:13]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah. I mean, the way he was utilized, that was the thing that always struck me was like every team he's on, they give him everything. They're like, no, you want a tough matchup? Okay, Viggo. You want to get a goal? Okay, Viggo. You know, like he's, he's the guy they constantly go to.
- [69:27]
Max Boltman
And we never see that with a 5:9 center, right? There's always the hesitance of like, can he take the tough defensive matchups. Vigo at 59 didn't seem to be any question about whether he could take
- [69:36]
Corey Pronman
that overall championship level too.
- [69:38]
Max Boltman
Like, he centered their top line at worlds with Lucas Raymond and Ivar Stenberg.
- [69:42]
Chris Peters
He's heavy over pucks too. You talk to the 08s in this Swedish age group about him. They say in practice, like this kid, you cannot take the puck off of him. He's got that low center of gravity and he, he's going to be able to hold over pucks even against heavier competition. He's competitive, he's smart, he's in all the right spots. He's skilled Outside of the 5, 9 on his height by NHL Central Scouting, there's not a lot in his game that gives you any concern about what the translatability of his game looks like. And then you watch the NHL playoffs this year. Jackson, Blake, Zach Benson, you go down the list. Logan Stankhoven, there's. I think there's belief now that with the right style of play that that 5:9 player can be an impact guy for you.
- [70:29]
Corey Pronman
I think there is some concerns the feet aren't elite. I think they're good feet. I don't think his skating is elite for his size. But you mentioned Stenberg. I've seen him play now three times with Stenberg this season at the World Juniors. I thought he was better than Stenberg. World championships I thought he was just as good, if not better than Stenberg. Stenberg had more production, but I thought the even strength impact Bjork was better. And then I went over to go watch those two play in Sweden there. I watched an SHL game between Jurgarn and Verlande. Bjork was better in that game as well. I think Now Stenberg is 5 foot 11. There's also, there's a little bit more pro projection there, a little bit more certainty there. But I don't think it would surprise anybody on this panel if in three years from now we're talking about Bjork as one of the, one of, if not the best forward in the draft.
- [71:09]
Max Boltman
Can he impact the jets this year? I mean they could use it. And upgraded second line center.
- [71:13]
Chris Peters
He, he signed in your garden. I think his, his plan as things stand is to return to Jurgarden and hopefully have the one thing he didn't have in the SHL this year was the point totals that Ivar had. So I think the goal is return to Jugarden, put up that 30, 35 point season and then you make the jump a year from now. He'll play, he'll play a central role for them again at the World Juniors. The Swedes will have a very strong team again at the World Juniors. I think that's his path.
- [71:38]
Scott Wheeler
I mean Winnipeg jets here, like, you know, this is, this is a team that they have to build through the draft. They have to build through the draft. Now in the scalp poll that we did with the, with the TSN guys that Vigo was the number one center, one spot ahead of Caleb Malhotra. And I think that that growing belief in this player made it so Winnipeg had to get a center, right? Yep. And they, a lot of us thought maybe it could be tight and Lawrence, maybe it would be one of the more traditional guys, maybe would be a Canadian. Quite frankly, there weren't a lot of Canadian centers available outside of Malhotra and Lawrence getting Vigo Bjork. High character player, high hockey sense, high compete. Lot of things that the jets have built in their drafts year over year. There have been some times they've deviated and maybe it didn't work out as well. This to me is an opportunity to hit a home run in this range. It's a risk because of the feet and other things like that. But I think the hockey sense and the compete level are two things that nobody really beats him on. So I, I, there's maybe you could ask a couple guys maybe, but I Don't think on hockey sense. There's anybody.
- [72:43]
Max Boltman
Scott just alluded to it, right? And you, I know you've talked about it with Cam Robinson on your podcast called Up Right. Everybody loves Vigo. In a place where Winnipeg wants to, you know, create a culture where everyone wants to stay. What a great personality to add to your room.
- [72:55]
Scott Wheeler
Everybody gravitates to him. Everybody gravitates to him. And now, you know, so a win for the jets as well as we talked about Seattle needing one and now how about this? San Jose Sharks are on the clock and we're doing is there, he's there. And this is what you hope for when you made that trade.
- [73:14]
Corey Pronman
They're for sure taking him.
- [73:15]
Scott Wheeler
Gotta have to. You have to.
- [73:17]
Corey Pronman
I'm one pick away from being outraged that Verhoff is still on the board. And I knew he was going to slide. I projected him I think at 8 in my final mark. So I kind of knew this is the range he was going. I think people are overthinking this one. Like the 17 year old in college, like if he was playing Western League, I don't think we'd be having this conversation now. I hate, I hate sometimes I hear people do that because you get out with McKenna or you could do this guy was in college, how would he have done? But I just. The body work with Verhoff is too good. The tools are too good. He's a great prospect. He better go here at nine to San Jose.
- [73:46]
Max Boltman
Aren't we always one pick from being outraged at the NHL draft? There's always and any one pick, I mean it could, it could turn the whole night around.
- [73:53]
Chris Peters
I do think people there were maybe not red flags but yellow flags late in the season in the biggest games at North Dakota into the Frozen four. And we only have his calloff games. We only, we're not talking about Gavin McKinnon.
- [74:10]
Max Boltman
I do get his point.
- [74:12]
Corey Pronman
He was worse I full year younger. But I get what he does and I get it. But that's just like, I just feel like there's been some, let's just say, like I said, overthinking going on here with what I think is otherwise a very complete prospect and a guy guy who has shown over a long period of time that he's a high level
- [74:31]
Scott Wheeler
prospect, you know, do you know how badly I want to see you lose it right now? If they don't pick him, okay, I'm
- [74:35]
Corey Pronman
not going to get outraged. I, I outrage.
- [74:39]
Chris Peters
I haven't viewed him as, as a complete prospect. Like I think you mentioned the decision making, the reads. I think that's a, that's a bit of a concern. And the. I've, I've. I know I've banged this drum all year. Dating Back to his U17s in Sarnia a year and a half ago. I, I don't love the boots. When he has to pivot back to get pucks, when he gets caught flat footed, when he has to change directions, it can look a little clumsy. Yeah, none of these other four defensemen have that sort of look to them at times.
- [75:08]
Scott Wheeler
I, I think there's, I'm, I'm intrigued here. But like, yeah, I think for me that the thing that sticks out in terms of what didn't quite work for him and he is the pick here for the San Jose Sharks is that he's raw. He's raw and that can be scary at times. It increases the level of risk, but I think it also increases the level of excitement and opportunity to develop this player.
- [75:32]
Max Boltman
Corey, a year ago, I remember at the World Under 18 Championship, Keaton Verhoff being one of the most impressive players. Even with, with maybe with the trajectory, the slide this year. What has San Jose just done to their future by adding Stenberg and now Verhoff in one draft?
- [75:47]
Corey Pronman
I think they have not only the best pipeline in the NHL, but the best pipeline by a massive margin. They are built now to be a contender down the line. This is an extremely, extremely impressive group of young players at the moment. I don't agree with Scott. I think his skating is an asset. I don't think he's like an elite skating six' four guy, but I've seen him, he doesn't get caught from behind. He pulls away from guys. The pivots can use a little bit of work, but the natural athleticism is there, the power is there. I think he'll be fine in time. When it comes to the skating, I mean, you could say decision making.
- [76:20]
Chris Peters
Yeah.
- [76:20]
Corey Pronman
It's not like I said, is he going to be this Power Play 1 Elite see repro guy? Not for me. But he's shown offense everywhere he gone. He has. His offense this year in North Dakota is comparable to what Zachary and Noah Hannifan and when they did when they were 17 year olds in college, he scored what, 20, 25 goals in the Western League of a year before. He's competitive. He's been captain Canada, multiple events. I get there's some minor flaws. I don't think the flaws deserve him to go number nine. I think San Jose has got a Heck of a prospect.
- [76:47]
Chris Peters
They should be the end. They should be the envy of the league in terms of what's coming. You. You hit that fast forward button three, four years from now. It's scary. If things break right for some of these guys, we already know they're going to break right for celebrity. We, we know it's going to break right for Ivar. Like if Misa becomes a real player and Verhoff becomes a real player.
- [77:09]
Corey Pronman
There's a lot I love Igor Chernyshev to like he's a top six forward I think in the NHL. Like he. That was a heck of a second round pick by the Sharks.
- [77:17]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah. And Corey is not overstating it. Just this is. This is the best system in the league and. And they're. They're not close and really there's balance. They even have the goaltender in, in Ravensburg and who is going to Michigan State as well. You know. So there's a lot of different factors at play. And he was great. He had a great season and he took a step and so I think that there is a lot of intrigue about what the Sharks are doing. There's got to be a lot of confidence now in Mike Greer and the scouting staff and everybody. And you need luck too. You have to be bad at the right times. You have to be in the right spots. And Macklin Celebrini was like, you know, just kind of like nuclear firepower that you get. And now all of a sudden you're going to have all of these pieces around him. It broke just right for them. It's amazing to see that it did.
- [78:10]
Max Boltman
That's what it is for me is right. Is it? You can look at the number of top five picks they've had. You know, there's different teams that have had a lot of top five picks. You just look at the profiles of the players that are now San Jose system. It is what teams dream about. You have one of the five best players in the world is your top line center in Macklin celebrating and he's going to be one number, number one I think within five years. You have a really talented number two center and Michael Misa who might be a luxury number two center with the skating and the assets there. You have a power play playmaker in Will Smith. You have a kind of play more playoff style, you know, scoring winger. And Ivar Stenberg. You've got the big body defenseman in Sam Dickinson and Keaton Verhoff. Maybe you don't have a true PP1 quarterback. Even got A great young goalie in your Slav Askarov like and Ravensburg favorite goalies.
- [78:52]
Scott Wheeler
Right.
- [78:53]
Max Boltman
They have everything you could want possibly, except a number one power play quarterback.
- [78:57]
Corey Pronman
Now the question is, do they get aggressive? I, I, you know, their possession numbers weren't great last year. You know, celebrity kind of willed them into that playoff race. Do they kind of try and accelerate it or do they do wait one or two more years before they try to really turn the corner and start adding pieces by free agency, by trade, trading future assets.
- [79:15]
Chris Peters
If you're, if you're a veteran free agent, why would, why would they not be near the top of your list in terms of destination?
- [79:23]
Scott Wheeler
I know it now.
- [79:23]
Corey Pronman
Taxes.
- [79:24]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, yeah, I guess there it is. Yes. But I mean I am, I'm amazed, you know at, at what they have done in this amount of time and we've seen plenty of teams that had those top sorry New York Rangers fans but like the one and twos that didn't work out. You know as I, as I, you know I, that was actually directly to our producer Chris Flannery as well, by the way, just in case anybody's wondering. But yeah, but like it's, it's pretty crazy and to have the board break the way that it did. We talk, you know, like we had talked about how difficult it is to acquire a top four defenseman and that William Eckland isn't going to get you a current top four defenseman. He didn't. However, he probably got you one for the future which is pretty incredible.
- [80:13]
Max Boltman
Interesting one for Nashville now there on the clock. Corey. It's a first year GM in, in Nashville at least. He comes over from the Colorado Avalanche where he was tremendously successful. But there's a lot of work to do in Nashville. It'd be interesting which direction this is.
- [80:25]
Corey Pronman
Yeah. Heard them link to Malte Gusison. Not sure what direction they're going to go. It's they because of the new management group, not the hard to get complete information with them. I think Gusison though is the best player available here. He's really talented. Two way defenseman, six, four and a half mobile. Like I said I will see but I think that would make the most sense here. Maybe even Belchers as well.
- [80:46]
Chris Peters
This is the range for Belches as well here. These next two or three picks I think we're going to see Gustafson, Belchers, Wyatt Cohen. Those are the, those are the names coming here.
- [80:55]
Scott Wheeler
By the way, what, what, what position is Luke Bryan play? Because that guy looks like he's Ready to hop on a top four position right here.
- [81:02]
Max Boltman
Second pair, right shot, defenseman, I think. Profile.
- [81:05]
Scott Wheeler
Oh, man. Well, this, I mean, this is a. This is a big pick. And that's Chris McFarland's first, you know, one. One of his first major decisions. Obviously has a few more trades made. A couple trades, couple trades. But there's, there's some big, big times ahead here.
- [81:19]
Max Boltman
All right, Luke Bryan making the pick as we speak for the Nashville Predators. And that pick is. It's Wyatt Cullen.
- [81:27]
Scott Wheeler
It's going to be Wyatt Cullen. Yeah. Wow.
- [81:29]
Max Boltman
How about that? All right, Wyatt Cullen. Chris, what are they getting?
- [81:33]
Scott Wheeler
I. I love Wyatt Cullen. I remaining on the board. He is the most dynamic one left and I think they're getting a playmaking winger, a guy that has grown a lot in the last couple of years, a guy that may not be done growing. He's the son of Matt Cullen and Matt was more of a role player. I think you're looking at a guy that we could be talking about as a top six forward in their system. I think there's a dynamic element to him. He was a point per game player. Like, didn't have amazing numbers on a pretty weak national team development program team this year. I think the numbers were certainly muted by that also injury that he dealt with throughout the year. But the fact that he is now a six foot one winger, when he was five foot five just two years ago, never lost the skill and dexterity that he had as a little guy. And now he's got that potential. To me, this is a home run swing in this range. Yes, you're going above Malte Gustafson. Yes, you're going ahead of Ethan Belcherts. That might have some of the measurables that you're looking for. This is a player that I think is. Has tremendous upside. He was actually the guy that some scouts had been saying, hey, you know how everybody was talking about Beckett, Seneca, that late heat that he got? They felt like this was the. The guy that could potentially disrupt that range. He didn't go quite go that high, but he did make a pretty significant impact here as a top 10 pick.
- [82:46]
Corey Pronman
The conversation around Cullen for me was always one the production and then context with the growth spurt. But whenever you watch the program and mind you, it wasn't a great USA under 18 this year. He didn't just stand out like, he like, stood out like a sore thumb in that group in terms of the skill and the level of plays he made. He was extremely dynamic to watch this year and you can see the top six, the tantalizing upside. And this is a guy who, what is he, a week away from being eligible for the 2027 draft? Yeah.
- [83:17]
Scott Wheeler
That's huge.
- [83:18]
Corey Pronman
Yeah. So like you could see the argument being made as for why he deserved to go in this range. And after taking, you know, Nashville has drafted a lot of two way guys. They drafted Matthew Wood and like there's been some skill shots they've taken, but a lot of their guys you could describe as two way, competitive, physical.
- [83:35]
Max Boltman
Certainly Martin.
- [83:36]
Corey Pronman
Yes. But even some of their past picks, you can go like, you know to the Felix Nielsen, you can go to Tanner Muller, Cameron Cameron, Reed. Riker Lee was a shot for skill, but this high in the draft. Yeah, this is, this is a really big shot by the new management group to try and get a legit top
- [83:51]
Chris Peters
six forward in Cohen and Riker Lee. They might have two of the most purely skilled on the puck. One on one handles players now. Yeah, to Corey's point, they, they needed that. They did and frankly they had. In the history of the Nashville Predators organization, they haven't really had premium skill guys.
- [84:10]
Scott Wheeler
No one's really.
- [84:11]
Chris Peters
Yeah, I mean like it's been about, yeah, Shea Weber and Roman Yos. It's been the D. And you, you
- [84:16]
Scott Wheeler
know, you have Philip Forsberg, but he's only going to score you a few highlight reel goals a year. I think Wyatt Cullen's the kind of guy that's going to add to your highlight reels. And to your point, Scott, that dynamic skill element, it feels like you need more of that in today's NHL. You need guys are going to distribute pucks that are going to get, make plays, be elusive. All these different things and I think we've. We are. Wyatt Cullen is really to me only scratching the surface of what he's going to be now.
- [84:38]
Corey Pronman
Interesting with Cola next year and with the context that Matt Cullen is working at the University of Minnesota where he's going, he has been telling teams the plan is for the Gophers to use him at center. He's been a winger his entire time with the program. The Gophers apparently intend to use him down the middle. You know, we'll see how that goes. But for an organization that lacks top six high end center talent. Something to keep in the back of your mind.
- [85:02]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, that now that, that makes things very interesting.
- [85:06]
Chris Peters
Two years from now too, we're going to see Joey Cullen, who might be the best 2010 in the world, up on stage with his dad as well.
- [85:13]
Scott Wheeler
Matt Collins, a very Popular guy.
- [85:16]
Corey Pronman
And I don't know the 2000 and tens good enough yet to say
- [85:20]
Chris Peters
it's what the people who know the 2010s tell me.
- [85:23]
Corey Pronman
I've only seen Matthias Mahalik and I. He's pretty good.
- [85:26]
Max Boltman
Chris Paul's a guy. When you have one of these players who pops at all the big events, the tent pole events, the CHL and CDP game, the All American prospects game, sometimes people look at that and they kind of look at it a scans because they go well. Did he just play well at a couple specific games? Why are those games good measuring sticks though?
- [85:42]
Scott Wheeler
Because everybody else is there. Because you're, you're seeing one to one comparables. You're seeing him with the Caleb Malhotras and the, and the, and the Dax and Rudolphs and all the players that he's gone behind. But you're also seeing him in that environment. How does he elevate his team in those situations? And I think that was the thing that Corey talks about with why he was so much, you know, he, he stood out so much. He was a guy. And you can make the argument that he maybe didn't elevate the team enough, but I think that was going to be a very hard task this year. I really like that that he always showed up when the lights were brightest because when you the NTDP like their home games there, there's not a lot of people there. They're kind of out of the way, you know, like there's, there's not a lot of energy. He goes into these environments, the lights turn on and he plays his best and, and, but he also plays really well in those other environments too. So it's not just a, you know, a one off thing. We see those events more easily because we're all there and everybody else is there. But I think this has been a trend that has been going really half the season.
- [86:40]
Corey Pronman
When he got back and he was healthy towards the second half of the USHL season, he was excellent too. I mean I kept getting messages from scouts who were going to those program games telling me how he was, you know, just incredible dynamic. Like that's, that's the way I was hearing him described in the second half
- [86:53]
Chris Peters
of the season when I did my scout poll, multiple scouts said they had him top six, top seven, so. And I'm sure that the Nashville Predators were amongst that group. Not just a dynamic one on one guy. And there is a little bit too much one on one with him too. Tremendous skater. So he does it at pace. He does it with his feet moving, he's not slowing it down in the way that a Gavin McKenna does. He can ramp it up as well.
- [87:16]
Max Boltman
Well, and the size, right. I mean the growth spurts. A huge part of the story here with that too. And that's why it matters is because it's one thing to be a good skater and really skill, but when you get over that six foot barometer, it just matters to.
- [87:26]
Chris Peters
It just does big time.
- [87:27]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah.
- [87:28]
Max Boltman
St. Louis Blues on the clock next Corey for their first of four picks. How do you think they approach this when you have four picks and I mean really three and a five pick
- [87:35]
Corey Pronman
span here with all the wingers in the system, you got to imagine D and center are going to come to mind. Their general manager Doug Armstrong seem to indicate they'll lean towards forwards with these picks. Even with a guy like Malte Gusison on the board. We've heard them linked, Alex command, you know, tight. And Lawrence is still here. We'll see what direction they go on the forward front, but that'd be my lean. And it is Tynan Lawrence at the 11th slot.
- [87:55]
Max Boltman
All right. Tynan Lawrence got. This is an interesting one because this is a player who at various points was among the very top players in the class. When he was in the USHL with Muskegon, he looked like one of the top players in the class. Maybe the top center in the class. He makes the midseason jump to Boston University. It doesn't go so well now. He still gets a pretty good landing spot. 11 is still a very good spot. What did you learn about Tynan Lawrence when he went to the ncaa? How much did it concern you?
- [88:18]
Chris Peters
You, I think you learned that it was just that there's a. There's a physical leap that still has to happen there. He's an excellent skater. He works very hard. Those things drove him in the USHL to a ton of success. Clark Cup MVP as a 16 year old. The second player to. To do that other than Adam Fantilli. Just a tremendous, tremendous, tremendous USHL player as a 16 year old. He was good. Not great at the Hlinka. Better at the Hlinka than he was at U18 Worlds for me. But then he just got pushed off of pucks a little bit early on. He was tremendous in his last couple of games there. You talked to Jay Pandolfo, talked to the staff at bu. They will tell you that at that last weekend that he played for bu. That's the Tyne and Lawrence that they think they're getting next year. They still think he can come and have a 40 point full season in college hockey next year and be a top end player there. Ironically, he's going to be playing with Caleb Malhotra so they have a 12 center punch that they're going to have to figure out there. I think Caleb will get the leg up at BU like he did in the draft tonight, but just a very hardworking, decently skilled, fast player. And it's just the decision making a little bit at times. He can tunnel vision. We saw it I think a lot, maybe too much at UAT Worlds where he was forcing it and I think he felt he had to force it there, but he was really forcing it. Skating into bad spots, turning over pucks, but then he works to go get it. And so scouts and coaches along the way have always been able to kind of live with that because he's just such an active, hard working player.
- [89:50]
Corey Pronman
I think most scouts I talked to in December had him in their top five. I think him going to school without a question tanked his draft stock. If he would have gotten injured in November or December. He was going in the top five of this year's draft, but I think the college level did except exposed some minor hockey sense and offense questions that were lingering in his game that you kind of identified at times at the junior level. But I think we're definitely exposed more at the collegiate level.
- [90:16]
Max Boltman
His backers though, I mean like I read one of your scout surveys and the name Dylan Larkin gets thrown around and that is, that's a reasonable, you know, those are the same flaws that you would say about Dylan Larkin. Is, is the, is the sense elite, is the playmaking elite. Maybe not. But when you have speed, when you have some size and when you have the compete level that it makes up
- [90:32]
Scott Wheeler
for a lot, Chris, it really does. And I think the other thing is that the total body of work for him, he was the MVP of the Clark cup playoffs in the USHL. He led in at 16 years old,
- [90:41]
Chris Peters
which, you know, another summer birthday.
- [90:43]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, another summer birthday, another guy that, but like yeah, Adam Fantilli was a 16 year old MVP in his year as well. So you or he was a little bit older at that point. But yeah, but you're also saying like this is a guy that has track record. There's something that we can point to, there's something we can kind of hang our hat on. And I think the thing about Tyne and Lawrence that, that strikes me, you know, about is that I think next year at BU I think we're going to see a big point boost. I think we're even though that they're going to have, they have some things to work out because they've lost some offense from their team last year. They've gained some guys. I think he's going to have be have a chance to be a big driver. And while he may, like Caleb Malhotra, may end up getting the leg up, Tynan Lawrence has the head start and has the, has has shown it at the college level. So let's see how the transition goes for Caleb because I think Tynan is going to be a little bit stronger and a little bit different with that experience.
- [91:32]
Corey Pronman
I talked about this before. I feel like every time he's been on a team, USHL College International, every head coach pigeonholes him until being the flank guy on the power play.
- [91:41]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah.
- [91:42]
Corey Pronman
I just don't know if he has the vision to be that guy. He's shown it at times. He showed, he hasn't shown it other times. I feel like with Xavier Villeneuve, with Malhotra, I wonder if you just make him the net front of the bumper guy that you use his speed to go in and get the puck. I feel like he could have a lot more sense success in that kind of role as opposed to being the guy who has to touch the puck all the time and make all the plays.
- [92:03]
Max Boltman
All right, we're going to take a quick break right there. We come back with the devil's pick at number 12. Stay with us.
- [92:12]
Corey Pronman
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- [94:18]
Max Boltman
All right, we are back in the New Jersey Devils. Chris take Alexander Command. This is, we talked about late risers earlier. Alexander Command as much of a late riser as anybody, especially what he did in the World Under 18 Championship.
- [94:28]
Scott Wheeler
Big, big fans. You know we were talking about guys like Oliver Savanto and in that next tier center and then all of a sudden Alexander Command comes out of the under 18 worlds and everybody's on him. I mean this was a guy that was considering to go the college route. He ends up signing in Sweden to play pro next year. So he didn't have a lot of pro games. That was probably, you know, one of the things where I was like, you know, kind of wondering what he's going to be. This is a high compete player. This is a guy that's a two way guy. He's physical, he can shoot the puck really well. He has a lot of things that he does at a high level and I think that the thing is that that motor that compete all those different things. He's not a number one center but he is could potentially be a number two guy or a matchups guy or somebody that is going to play in a variety of roles for your team team. I think if you're the New Jersey Devils you've got some high octane offensive performers. You need some guys that are going to be diggers and gophers and other things. And you know what, what's Nico. He sure's long term future in the, in the organization and other things like that. A lot of questions. Alexander Command is one of those guys. It doesn't, it feels like the floor is very high but I still think that he's reaching ceiling here. And I got a lot of, I got a lot of. I like the player a lot.
- [95:30]
Corey Pronman
Max, we talked off camera you compared him to Marco Casper, which I actually, I could really see that the dots being connected there. Casper played SHL his draft year, played it very well played men's world Championships. I think there's a little bit higher level there but they're close and like the play styles are very similar and they don't go that far apart in their actual drafts.
- [95:48]
Max Boltman
And what the thing, I mean I've covered Marco Casper right his entire career. What coaches love about him is you can really put him in any situation. Yes, ideally he's probably going to be some kind of matchup center here. But when you need a guy who like Chris said to kind of do the work, do some digging for your skill players, you can throw him up onto Jack Hughes's wing and ask him forecheck, dig below the goal line, be around the net to clean up some rebounds. These are all things that I think will suit Alexander Command.
- [96:09]
Chris Peters
No, nobody in this draft class that I watched up front shed checks like he did. Like guys just, he goes right through sticks, he stays over pucks, he's strong. The skill level, the playmaking isn't high end in the way that it is for the other forwards that we've already seen taken. But his ability to just hold on pucks, extend sequences, play off the cycle, that's a huge, huge pro attribute.
- [96:33]
Corey Pronman
He was excellent at the men's U18, centering the line with Elton Hermansen and Marcus Normark, both extremely skilled wingers who have chances to go tonight. But he was a center. He was doing all the dirty work, all the two way play. Well those guys, let's just say are not known for that. And I had like one scout make a, make a remark that he was like a daycare teacher at times but while still having to provide the offense, which he did. And I think the way he ended his season on such a high note was a selling point here for the New Jersey Devils who now get a really great two way player. To add to their system.
- [97:04]
Max Boltman
Yep. And it's the versatile. I mean, you've seen it with the Devils and Dawson Mercer even too. Like, it's just good to have these players who you trust, who you think can do some of the harder elements of the game. New York Islanders are on the clock now here. This is an interesting one. The Islanders stole the show of last year's draft.
- [97:18]
Chris Peters
Right.
- [97:19]
Max Boltman
They come out of it with Matthew Schaefer who ends up being the Caller trophy winner. They also come out of it with with Victor Eklund. They also come out of it with Kishan Aitchison. And yet they're not a team that has really leaned full on into the rebuild here. So as they make this pick, it's gonna be interesting and it's gonna be Matthew Schaefer actually announcing this pick, which is pretty fun. They're a team that we thought might be steering into a full rebuild now. They look like a team that might be able to kind of rebuild on the fly.
- [97:40]
Scott Wheeler
Chris. Yeah, I mean when you get a Matthew Schaefer fall into your lap, that's a big thing. And he obviously over exceeded our expectations. So that's a pretty incredible thing too. And now he's going to be the face of the franchise. Here's the guy that's going to help him out.
- [97:53]
Chris Peters
They don't have anything like Ethan Belches. They have a ton of lefties in Romanov Schaefer, they took Kishan HS in last year. They've got a ton of left shot defenseman. That's what Maltese Gustafson represents. They don't have anything like Ethan Belches. I wonder if he's the pick here.
- [98:09]
Max Boltman
Matthew Schaefer announcing it as we speak. It's Malte Gustafson is the pick for the New York Islanders. So it's another left shot defenseman. This is fascinating. Now you have Matthew Schaefer, you have Keisha Aitchison, you have multi Gustafson. Corey, how does Gustafson slot in here?
- [98:26]
Corey Pronman
Well, one of them is playing the right side, but I think you can do that. I think with the left shots play the right side all the time in the NHL and I just think he maybe on a depth chart you didn't love it, but to me he was clearly the best player available right here. The big mobile defenseman. He's physical. You can make plays, he can. You know, he has a really good defensive trait. I think people are going to look at a stat line. I'm not going to be impressed. Not huge points of the J20 level or in the SHL. Keep in mind both his HV71 senior team and junior team were playing in the relegation round this year so not a lot of help around him. What do you play in this club team? When he played with the national team I thought he was the best defenseman at the U18 World Championships out shining names like a Keaton Verhoff who goes ahead of him in this year's draft. Really impressive two way player. I think he projects as a top four defenseman in the NHL and while he doesn't quite have the nastiness in the offensive case on Justin I would argue he even defends better than K's on oh yeah.
- [99:20]
Chris Peters
I think he's got every bit that maybe not the the true meanness like
- [99:24]
Scott Wheeler
Keisha is an enemy actually does not like you.
- [99:27]
Chris Peters
Yes. Yeah but he's, he's an extremely, extremely physical competitive shot blocking size.
- [99:35]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah that's.
- [99:35]
Chris Peters
That's his identity.
- [99:36]
Corey Pronman
If and when this core reaches the playoffs with Gustafson six four and a half K Sean Hton six one and a half. He plays like he's six four. Matthew Matthew Schaefer at six two with the, with the absolute dynamic traits. That's going to be one heck of a blue line 10 against in the, in the postseason.
- [99:50]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah. And I think you, you have to feel if you're the Islanders, I think you have to feel fortunate that there was a player of that caliber in this range because I view Gustafson firmly in that four group of 14 players which basically outside of Alexander command who really started to disrupt and become into that group late. You know the only one left that I haven't seen called yet is Ethan Belchertz is a guy that I felt like was kind of firmly in the the vast majority of top 14 top 15s that's you know, we, we're seeing it. So now you get this premium defenseman who, who really wasn't that far off from the guys that went several picks ahead of him. Now Gustafson is a another huge building block for this team.
- [100:33]
Chris Peters
I had multiple teams tell me in advance of the draft when I did my poll that they had multi guys justafsen ahead of one of those 5D. Whether it was Dax and Rudolph, whether it was Keaton Verhoff, there were teams that felt that he belonged in that group.
- [100:44]
Corey Pronman
As we turn to Columbus here, they have been a team I have heard linked to Ethan Beliches throughout this process. Doesn't mean they're going to pick him. And I think that belches who we once thought of as a potential top 5 pick is here still at pick 14. Speaks to some of the, maybe the hockey sense, the skating concerns. He didn't have a tremendous offensive season. He had a good offensive season. But if I was a bet, if I was to bet, I would say that this is, this might be where
- [101:07]
Chris Peters
his slide stops and, and Belches is exactly what they need. They need that big sort of power winger. Belches didn't have the draft year that many imagined he would. He's frankly ran a little hot and cold over both of his two seasons. Oh yeah, this is a kid who had it. What was it? A six point game in his second ever game as a 16 year old, first overall pick in the OHL. And I think it was a six point game in his second ever Game with the Windsor Spitfires. Got off to hot starts this year. He had 10 goals in his first 13 games this year and then just hit a bit of a. Hit a bit of a lull. He was brutal at the usa, the CHL USA series
- [101:44]
Corey Pronman
wasn't good.
- [101:44]
Chris Peters
Yeah, he wasn't a standout. I thought he tied for the scoring lead on that Team Canada. That team Canada was brutal, but just very, very skilled. Then he broke his collarbone and everything kind of got sidetracked in the second half. We'll see whether he's fully healthy, sort of coming into development camp and then beyond at Michigan State where he's committed, but just a very, very skilled, big strong kid.
- [102:09]
Corey Pronman
I have one question for you guys. Chris, Chris Scott. When I, when I saw Ethan when He was a 16 year old, talk to him, you saw just how much of a mammoth of a man he already was. Like, he looked like he was, you know, 220, 230 of pure muscle. We're gonna have this conversation with Nasar Privilev next year. Who has the kind of same build. Do we, you guys view that as a positive or a negative? When a guy is that physically developed already at 16 years, I definitely take
- [102:32]
Scott Wheeler
note of it and I think that there's, there's a huge opportunity for the player to continue to grow, but you have to see evidence of that. I do think we saw some of that this year. But the thing about Ethan, and it's a good point because when a player develops early, they are naturally. He was a number one pick in the OHL draft. He's naturally more physically advanced than his peers. You have to develop more of your game around that, which I think he's, he's, he did. And I actually this year I felt sometimes he didn't play big enough in games where last year I never really got that feeling from him.
- [103:03]
Chris Peters
I saw him play in Saginaw and Brantford early on this season in back to back weekends. Coming out of both of those weekends, speaking with scouts at the arena, speaking with NCAA coaches who were there to watch him play. There was talk at that point when he got off to that 10 goals in 13 game stretch, there was talk about and they don't even take him, they take Oscar Hemming here. But there was talk about Belches as a top five.
- [103:25]
Corey Pronman
Who would argue is a better skating version of Belcher.
- [103:27]
Max Boltman
I was just going to say, I mean a lot of the things you guys are talking about with Belches apply to Oscar Heming here who to Corey's point maybe a better skater. He's another guy who joins college mid season Corey and he has a really positive I think trend from going to
- [103:40]
Corey Pronman
Boston College 6 4. The feet are a positive. The offense is, you know started. He got a couple of points there early in the year. Then he kind of faded into the conference games as the season went on. But he was came in hot in the middle of the year. Really strange season where he tried to leave Finland to co play major junior. A contract dispute with his Finnish team held him up. So the because the the federations wouldn't allow the transfer. He ends up playing college hockey which isn't governed by any federations. A lot of legal mumbo jumbo just to say he had a strange thing. He didn't play a lot of hockey but he is very talented. He has shown offense at the Helenka Gretzky when he played Finland junior the year prior to. To go with a really high level of physicality. I can see the path for him to become a top six power winger in the National Hockey League.
- [104:24]
Chris Peters
Him and Lawrence kind of went in opposite directions a little bit in terms of their, their college seasons. His first few weekends he was outstanding. Hemming on those first three or four weekends in college was an immediate impact player. Then he had some learning to do. It kind of went the opposite direction with Lawrence where Lawrence struggled early and then figured it out late. A lot to like about the skating, the power, the presence. I did hear that teams were looking into an injury concern about him over the last few days. That was one thing that came across my desk, if you will. I don't know how serious it is but there, there was at least an injury question with him but that you're. You're betting on the Profile and the speed and the skating and the size.
- [105:05]
Scott Wheeler
The, the. The other interesting thing about Oscar Heming is he is a, a symbol of kind of our new era in hockey where he was under contract and decided to leave home. And the double IHF has transfer rules that don't allow you to play. So he didn't play at the under 18 worlds because he was suspended. He could not play due to this dispute that is ongoing. That is why we keep hearing the different kind of things about, you know, the NCAA is not beholden to that transfer agreement which has become a competitive advantage at this point for them. So that's one other thing about Oscar Heming, why he's such an intriguing player because his is a path that is something that other European players are going to look at as opportunities. Now it may end up sacrificing your international duty, which is some, a bridge that a lot of them won't cross, but it is something to watch out for. But Hemming, now he was one of those guys like outside of Belcherts, that was the next guy who was in that 15 group even ahead of command. And so it's not really surprising to see him here. And you know, Columbus certainly needs the size, they need the skating, they need the skill. They've gotten it now. So intriguing player on so many levels.
- [106:19]
Chris Peters
He was excellent in the Hilinka last summer too, that top line.
- [106:23]
Scott Wheeler
And that was all we had for several months and that was a good impress. Like at that point we were like, if he doesn't play a second, he's still going in the first round.
- [106:31]
Max Boltman
Columbus, by the way, I mean we talk about the power profile here. They just traded for a guy who is a kind of ready made addition of the same thing into their lineup in Valeria. That's one of the more underrated trades of the last week. I mean the Chuskin goes from Colorado and look, there's been ups and downs on and off the ice for Nachusk in the last few years. But for a Columbus team that I think that there's a lot of urgency to win there, getting to chin into their lineup is a pretty big move this week.
- [106:53]
Scott Wheeler
Huge. Huge. I mean like the kind of, the kind of player that can make a real difference for you down and also change the, the, the way you play. You think about having Fantilli and other guys that are going to be, that's going to be a really hard team to play against. Heming fits into that too. That's the other thing is now you're seeing a Little bit more of the structure of what Columbus is going to look like now. The whole Zach Warrensky thing hanging over the organization right now, that's not a small thing. That's, that's a seismic thing. The fact that there was talk that that might not get done until after the draft and, and now we're here, they're making picks. This is, that's seismic and that hangs over the organization at this point. So a lot left to be determined there.
- [107:33]
Max Boltman
St. Louis back on the clock now with the second of their picks. Corey. I mean, we've, we've talked a lot about belches. I have to imagine he very much has St. Louis Blues type of traits.
- [107:41]
Corey Pronman
Yes. You gotta imagine, Betsy, with these two picks here, you got, you gotta imagine he being in their wheelhouse and like we said, the 11th pick, it seems like their strategy going to this draft according to their general manager Doug Armstrong, if it's, if it's close, take the forward. And you got to imagine that he's, I don't even know what defenseman would be close to him at this point, quite frankly.
- [107:58]
Chris Peters
And we talked a lot about them having a plethora of wingers there. They're all right shots like Jimmy Snuggerood, right shot that, him being a lefty, I think.
- [108:11]
Corey Pronman
And it sounds like Robert Thomas is here to stay now. So now you have, so you have divorce, you have Tyler Lawrence. All of a sudden, an organization where you said, I don't know about, about the center depth doesn't look like it has that much of an issue. Not saying it's amazing center depth, but I wouldn't call it an issue right now.
- [108:23]
Max Boltman
St. Louis is actually the next two teams on the clock here because they have both 15 and 16 against 16 in that Kyro trade. I just want from each of you, do they make both picks here in short succession? Scott first?
- [108:33]
Chris Peters
Looks like it.
- [108:34]
Corey Pronman
Corey, I always say you have the picks till you don't. I hate trade rumors. They're making the picks, Chris.
- [108:39]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, they're going to pick. I mean, like, unless they're, unless, unless we're not hearing something which is possible.
- [108:45]
Corey Pronman
We're not, we're not really, we're not
- [108:46]
Scott Wheeler
hearing anything at this point. We're talking to you guys here and thanks to everybody that's been watching. But you know, really, I think if you're the Blues and you do see a belt jets at this range, I mean, how are you? How excited are you? I, I, I feel like he just fits into that, that whole dynamic and, and the one thing that I will say about that player and we'll talk about it more once we see if they actually pick him. He needs to find his identity soon because I think there were times where this year where he was the skill score in times where he was the bully. He needs to find a way to combine both and he will be a great player with that.
- [109:19]
Max Boltman
We did a mock draft on the, on the Athletic Hockey Show a couple weeks ago and I had both Blues picks at the time that the 211 and 15 and I thought maybe you could float multi Gustafson, not take him at 11 and because there was the left shot D with the Islanders, the New Jersey Devils, a lot of defense but all they just traded away Simon Nemetz earlier this week and even the Columbus Blue Jackets have, you know, some, some young left side defenseman behind Zach Rensky. I think that calculus certainly changes with all the Wensky stuff, but I did wonder if that was a way St. Louis might try to approach us and get Gustafson here now that Gustafson's off the board. Corey, I mean the board would heavily, heavily favor going forward.
- [109:52]
Corey Pronman
Forward. Yeah, I guess like the nest of vets going to be Ryan Lynn, B Tommy Blal. But I, I don't think they fit in this range. I would guess they're more 20s guys. So I got there. There's going to be forwards here. Which forwards? I don't know. It could be, you know, it could be Belchez, it could be, could be Elton Hermanson, it could be Gleb Pugachev. You know, I think that's the, you know, Savanto still on the board. He's a, he's a really good center. You know, we'll, we'll see what direction they go here. I'm not sure if a trade's going on or not because it's been, the clock's been at zero here for quite some time and maybe they aren't making
- [110:22]
Scott Wheeler
here it is Elliot Friedman reporting that Mason McTavish is being traded to St. Louis here. So how about that? Yeah. And 15 is one of the picks going. So we were all wrong. Wrong. And also the to everybody saying look at the chat. I am looking at the chat and we, they, they, they had a. They. They were trying to help us.
- [110:41]
Max Boltman
So that's bad hosting by me putting you all in a position to be wrong consecutively in a row when the information was out. I see.
- [110:48]
Scott Wheeler
You see I, yes, chat. I see.
- [110:49]
Corey Pronman
I mean I said you don't make picks until you, I said you Have Pixel. You don't have them. And now that we don't have them
- [110:56]
Max Boltman
in St. Louis, I mean, that's a huge development here for the St. Louis.
- [110:58]
Corey Pronman
So somebody. Let me correct my statement. They have good center depth now.
- [111:01]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah.
- [111:02]
Chris Peters
Yeah. Lawrence and McTavish changes the look of that team down the middle big time moving forward.
- [111:07]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, absolutely. And now. Now if you're. You're. You're Anaheim. Does this make that decision easy for you here? You know, at 15, you got.
- [111:17]
Corey Pronman
You gotta imagine that's what. That's what they're trading in for. Right. Like, I'm looking at the premium guys left that belches seem. I mean, I don't want to say seems to be obvious. Maybe it is Savanto. There's a lot of scouts who love Savanto.
- [111:30]
Max Boltman
A center goes out, you might need a center going back in.
- [111:32]
Chris Peters
I don't think you can take Savanto over Ethan.
- [111:36]
Corey Pronman
I could see it.
- [111:37]
Max Boltman
The Ducks. I'll say this like the Ducks forward prospects, I think are. We talked about how good San Jose's young players are. The Ducks forward prospects are competitive with it. When you talk about. And I'll include young players when I say prospects. But talk about Leo Carlson, Beckett, Seneca, Cutter, Gaultier. These are some really, really talented players who also have size. Ethan belches fits that like a glove. And he has the meanness factor at a level, you know, Seneca at times, I think plays with a little edge.
- [112:01]
Scott Wheeler
But I.
- [112:01]
Max Boltman
But it's different.
- [112:02]
Corey Pronman
We keep mentioning his name. The issue is his skating. Everyone's really worried about a 65 guy with really heavy boots. It's hard to get. You know, it's still. He's still a really good player. But I think it's not just, you know, it's. The offense wasn't. Had not been elite in junior. And the skating is a significant issue. Those are two red flags that despite all the positives in the body and the physicality and that there is some secondary skill there. I think coming into this year, we thought there would be legit skill. Like you heard the names Rick Nash being thrown around with him. He doesn't have that. I think he's shown he does not have that level of instincts, a level of skill. So it wouldn't surprise me if someone says he's like a middle six wing. I don't think that I think he could be a top six wing. He reminds me a lot of Alexei Protus. But it. I can see how teams would arrive at that conclusion.
- [112:44]
Chris Peters
The challenge for me is that you're. If you're passing on him and you're taking an Oliver Savanto. You're also not taking a player with. There aren't many players with top six skill left.
- [112:53]
Max Boltman
Yeah, maybe not worse, but it's not much better.
- [112:55]
Chris Peters
And the, and the guys who do have top six skill have. Whether you're a Klepov or a Hermanson, there are questions with those. We're, we're just at that point in the draft now.
- [113:04]
Scott Wheeler
Oh yeah.
- [113:05]
Corey Pronman
Actually that is a name I think could go here.
- [113:07]
Chris Peters
Oh, wow.
- [113:08]
Corey Pronman
So we'll see.
- [113:08]
Max Boltman
Corey, to your point though, about Belches and the skating, I think that goes back to the point you made to Chris earlier about the physical development and where it is in the process when you have a tall guy. I don't get too worried about the skating at 17 usually because muscle makes a big difference. I think about some of the. Michael Rasmussen's a guy that I've covered for a lot of years in Detroit. Skating got way better as he added. Muscle belches Muscle is kind of already there. And that, yeah, that might make, make
- [113:32]
Scott Wheeler
you feel the physical development of the player also, like, you know, he's a, he's a player that has had a lot of the advantages of the different, you know, training opportunities and, and other things like where he's done the extra stuff to get to that level as well. And so, so yeah, you're, you're losing some, you may be losing some upside, you may be losing some ceiling there,
- [113:50]
Max Boltman
but it's a rare profile.
- [113:54]
Corey Pronman
It could be Logan Brown too if the skating doesn't come out. Now he doesn't know he competes way harder than Brown, but I just mean in terms of the skating at the side, that is a risk.
- [114:02]
Max Boltman
Ethan belches head to head against Ryan Rubric early in the season. You and I, we went to Windsor at the time. Those were two top 15ish prospects in the class. Belches blew him out of the water. He was awesome. I think he had like, like three points. There was skill, there was playmaking. I understand that wasn't every viewing on him, but when I've seen it, it's really hard to unsee it. And I think NHL scouts are similar.
- [114:20]
Chris Peters
Some of those games I saw early in the year he was playing on a line with Liam green tree, a 19 year old first round pick and Jack Nesbitt, what 12th overall pick a year ago he was in both of those early viewings I had of him on the road. He was way better than both of them.
- [114:35]
Corey Pronman
Yeah, we'll see. My guess Is this is Belich. And I think Hurlburt has a chance to go here, but I would guess that this is Belches like there might
- [114:43]
Max Boltman
not be two more different players in the class.
- [114:45]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, yeah. And I mean just in terms of where guys fit and yeah, Herbert doesn't strike me as a, as a. As that, as their style. But at the same time, you know, Martin, like Martin Madden is, is one of those guys that doesn't probably get talked a lot about in terms of like he's been in. He's been at the big jobs in the NHL, has a really good track record. I mean, you look at their drafts in the last. Last several years, the way that they have reformatted their team and the fact that they were so competitive this year is, is a huge credit to the work that they've done behind the scenes as well. So Pat Verbeek is obviously, you know, come in and made a lot of different changes here, but yeah, they got
- [115:23]
Corey Pronman
the 29th too of St. Louis's four picks.
- [115:26]
Max Boltman
St. Louis only has one more pick left. It's going to be the next one at 16 after Anaheim.
- [115:29]
Corey Pronman
I love Mason McTellion. I think he got a bad rap in that. Like, I'm not saying I understand there's some issues there with his consistency, but I mean that I, that, that I think this is. That was a really nice move there for St. Louis. You know, it's hard to get impact centers. And I'm not saying McTavish is an impact center. He was a healthy scratch towards the end of the year, but I think he's got the potential to be a top two line centerman. And we always say they don't become available that often. One may have just become available.
- [115:52]
Max Boltman
Well, and Trevor Zegras last year we just saw a young player who had struggled in Anaheim. He goes to Philly and he really is transformed in new surroundings. It doesn't go that way with every player. And certainly Trevor Zegers had already showed us a little bit. How about this?
- [116:04]
Scott Wheeler
This is not one we were expecting here.
- [116:06]
Max Boltman
Now this is actually not that different from JP Hurlbur. So I think Corey's point there is still kind of hold the Ducks take Nikita Klepov, the leading scorer from the OHL this year.
- [116:14]
Chris Peters
Scott Klepov had an excellent, excellent year. He's another Michigan State guy. Not the Michigan State guy. Maybe an Ethan Belches that we thought was going to get picked here. But there were teams over the course of this season that I spoke to scouts that I Spoke to with NHL clubs who viewed him as a top 10 talent in this draft class. That doesn't mean you take them there. But from a pure skill, craft, playmaking, creativity, ability over the puck, half wall on the power play, he's a pretty unique player in this range. The players with those attributes are already gone by and large. And so from a pure skill standpoint, extremely, extremely interesting reason why I still
- [116:52]
Corey Pronman
suspected Hurlburt and why they went with Klepov as I, I believe there was this direct. I believe they did want to try and add skill in this draft. Belches well, I think he could be a top six forward. I don't think he's as power play guy in the NHL. I don't think he's like a legit top six skill type. Klepov is. He was excellent this year. I just saw him at the, at the Gold Star camp last week. He was the best player there. You know, high end skill, high end brain, good skater. You know, absolutely has a trajectory to being like a second third line wing who could help a power play.
- [117:23]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, I mean this is, this is a really interesting one on a number of levels. But getting that high end skill, he was a guy that I think had a little bit more late buzz going both ways. There was polarizing opinions of the player. Some people don't love the compete, some people don't love some of the other attributes. You know, there's, there's a lot of questions now. He's an interesting one too. He played for Team USA at the, at the Helena Gretzky Cup. Did not play for them at the World Under 18 Championship.
- [117:50]
Chris Peters
He's saving it for Russia.
- [117:52]
Scott Wheeler
Exactly. And so like, you know, that was a big, that was a bit of a tell. Not saying that that really means anything for his development, but it was kind of this interesting thing. But he was part of the team and a important integral player to the first U.S. team that won the first holy con Gretzky cup for them in over 20 years. And so he was a big part of that and really took a lot of pride in that. You go to the playoffs and other things and you. That that was where I saw a couple of the concerns. It wasn't amazing in the postseason this year and that was a, that's why I'm at least a little bit surprised by this pick just because, you know, the way that the Ducks have kind of structured their, their picks. But if you wanted to add skill, it's. There aren't a ton of guys in this class that are better at him in those hand skill categories, including a really nice release on a shot.
- [118:40]
Chris Peters
Michigan, Michigan State has one of the deepest forward groups in the country for next year. And they, I know they have him penciled in as a top six guy as a freshman. Like they, they view him as a PP1 guy for them next year on a team that's loaded with guys that want one of those roles.
- [118:55]
Max Boltman
Corey, who is your comp on Klepov?
- [118:57]
Corey Pronman
I thought of, I thought of Bjork Strand, I thought of Jordan Eberle. Like I just thought like these really cerebral, skilled goal scorers. The athletic traits don't jump out. The compete doesn't jump out, but it's good enough. Like I think he's got a chance to be, you know, a 20, 25 goal scorer, 50 points in the NHL guy who really helps the lineup. Now what I think would be the, the season he had was pretty rare for an OHL rookie. So I could buy the argument the projection is higher. I would guess if you ask the Ducks, they think they just got a top six wing, a potential guy, could be a first power play guy if things really go well. I couldn't get all the way there. All the way there. Sorry. But I can see the argument for sure.
- [119:37]
Chris Peters
I asked the kids every year, about 50 to 60 kids the same question every year as part of my player poll. The question is who is the most skilled player that you've played against in the draft? Not necessarily the best player, but from a pure skill standpoint, who's the first name that you. That comes out to you and in your draft class he got more votes than Caleb Malhotra amongst the OHL kids this year.
- [119:58]
Corey Pronman
Oh yeah.
- [119:59]
Chris Peters
That's the kind of talent that he
- [120:01]
Corey Pronman
had a better year. He was the first team all star in the OHL this year. I don't think Matra was even a on the, on on any, any of the all star teams.
- [120:08]
Max Boltman
The skating Corey, I mean that would be the one thing that when I watched him, I think you graded it average.
- [120:11]
Corey Pronman
It's good enough. It's not a like for six. Zero is not like this elite twitchiness, elite quickness. But I think it's good enough.
- [120:17]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah.
- [120:18]
Max Boltman
All right, so now St. Louis back on the clock here and I, I feel like, you know, we've been talking about ethan belches for 15 minutes straight now here. I almost don't even know what to ask you guys anymore. But if he's, he's not off the board yet. Do you think the injury is the biggest reason for this, I mean, how do you size this up?
- [120:32]
Scott Wheeler
Scott?
- [120:33]
Chris Peters
I think it's a combination of the lost time and people falling in love with other guys. I think that's just a natural thing to happen over the course of the season. But it's also what they saw of him at the end that those weekends that I talked about earlier in the show, those early weekends where he was blowing people away and people were talking about him as a potential top five pick in this class, that's a long, long time ago now. And even before the injury, before he got knocked up that last sort of three, four weeks in the ohl plus the CHL USA NTDP series, he just wasn't his best. And I think that those viewings have maybe lingered with scouts.
- [121:13]
Corey Pronman
If St. Louis uses their four picks to get Mason McTavish, Tynan Lawrence, Nathan belches It's hard not to walk away from this draft thinking they just like the Sharks. They just fundamentally change their organization.
- [121:23]
Max Boltman
That's big, big praise. I mean, Mason McTavish, the fit in St. Louis, I think he can slot right in too. And you have, you know, tight and Lawrence and drafting him, he's probably two years away. Yeah, but McTavish slots into the top nine today.
- [121:35]
Scott Wheeler
Right now. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Pretty, pretty impressive stuff. I mean, and, and yeah, you got to give a lot of credit to the Blues for maximizing and it's Maddox
- [121:43]
Corey Pronman
Dagon day going instead.
- [121:45]
Max Boltman
This is one of your guys.
- [121:46]
Scott Wheeler
I love Maddox Dagonay. Like I, you know, he, he is, he is listed as a center, more likely to play wing. I think a lot of teams see him as a wing, but he's a 6 foot 4 guy with skill. And I think the thing is when you have the size, skill combination, when you have shown enough grit and compete, which is the one thing we need to see more consistently from him on a game to game basis. But when he is at his peak of his game, he is competitive, he is able to score and he's able to get to the interior. He does a lot of those things well. I think he's going to be a really good player here. He was pretty high on my list as well. One of my favorites in this class because that 6 foot 4 frame with
- [122:23]
Chris Peters
hands and he can skate and he
- [122:25]
Scott Wheeler
can skate, you know, and I, my comp for him was Alex Tuck. I don't think he. Alex Tuck's top end skating is better. But I would say that Maddox Dagenet has put himself into a category where I think he's Going to be a potential 30 goal scorer with the shot that he has, with the ability to, to do the things he's done now. He's expected to go back to Quebec next year. He did explore the, the NCAA option. He's decided to go back to Quebec where they should have a pretty loaded team and a team that's going on a bit of a run or has a chance to go on a bit of a run in the qmjhl and he's going to be a leader for that team and I think that's a good solution. And obviously the Blues have Justin Carboneau who, who they allowed to go back to the qmjhl. Had a great season as a leader of a team that went on a deep run.
- [123:05]
Corey Pronman
So like I said, 30 goal NHL score. He was a point per game in the queue this year. Didn't really score a lot as an underage. Was good, not great. Guys who don't really light up the queue tend. Rarely tend to become premium NHL scores. Why do you think he's a 30 goal scorer?
- [123:17]
Scott Wheeler
The hands, I mean the hand.
- [123:18]
Max Boltman
Hands.
- [123:18]
Scott Wheeler
The hands are absolutely. Hands at the size are a separating factor. I think the hockey sense is good enough.
- [123:24]
Corey Pronman
I also don't think it's good.
- [123:25]
Scott Wheeler
I think, I don't think Quebec. I don't. I think it's good enough. I just, you know, I don't think that the Quebec team that he was on this season was necessarily going to be one that allowed him to produce at a high level either. It was a, it was a very interesting year in the qmjhl. A lot of very weird results across the board. But I think this is a player that, okay, if you don't love the hockey sense, everything else is there.
- [123:47]
Corey Pronman
He's a good player. I just, like I said, I do have some concerns on whether you just got like this third line banging a forward, maybe a center, maybe a wing. Still a good player, NHL player, a valuable player type. But his lack of offense and I thought at the U18 his, his hockey sense got exposed a little bit for
- [124:04]
Scott Wheeler
me too at times. Yeah, I would say that's fair.
- [124:06]
Corey Pronman
Corey, what's.
- [124:06]
Max Boltman
What would be the difference between Maddox DJ and a guy who I know you like a little bit more who you could maybe similar profile. Gleb Pugachev.
- [124:13]
Corey Pronman
Well, one's Russian, one isn't. So the risk profile is different. Different for teams whether, whether people like to hear that or not. I think Pugachev is the most physical player in the draft. So I think unbelievable athlete. Yeah. And like the, like, the way he crushes guys, I think would be a distinction there. But I think with Dajuna, you know, he is bigger. He is about an inch. An inch bigger. A little bit more of a natural goal scorer. So I think that's the differences. Both are really good players. Both, I think, play in the NHL. Second, third line type type of player. Do we got a trade here right now?
- [124:43]
Max Boltman
I don't know. I don't. There's not that big buzzy trade graphic behind Gary Bettner, but he's announcing something
- [124:49]
Corey Pronman
la, I think was targeting a center. I think that's been my understanding. And Savanto still on the board.
- [124:54]
Scott Wheeler
Oh, they're announcing the GM of the Year, so. Yeah, but this is the guy who's
- [125:00]
Max Boltman
the GM of the year, by the way. Eric Tulski is the gentleman Manager of the Year.
- [125:04]
Scott Wheeler
Not even a finalist. Chris McFarland is.
- [125:06]
Max Boltman
He can have the Athletic Hockey show award for GM of the Year and then the NHL award will be announced.
- [125:10]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah. So, yeah, it's Eric. Yeah. Oh, looks like it's gonna be Bill Garon. So anyway, we move on. But the other thing I will say too, about Matt Stagnet, I mean, I have Ethan Belchertz ahead of him. And. And that's the other thing. It's like, as much as I love Maddox D, I do look at Ethan Belchetz as the. As the potential better fit for the blues here. So. So while I do love the player, I, you know, I think that there's. This is very intriguing that he's.
- [125:34]
Corey Pronman
That this has been the one issue for me with Dashna and I know talking to teams, they share this concern. Is he for sure an NHL center?
- [125:40]
Chris Peters
No, I don't think he's a wing.
- [125:43]
Corey Pronman
If you told me he's a center, I'd buy it. Chris into Tuck.
- [125:46]
Max Boltman
Tuck's not a center.
- [125:47]
Corey Pronman
Yeah, Yeah, I think Tuck has more skill, more hockey, more playmaking.
- [125:50]
Scott Wheeler
I mean, he might have more playmaking in his game, but I think the skill is. Is pretty high end for Dash.
- [125:55]
Max Boltman
So that's the big differentiation between you two.
- [125:57]
Scott Wheeler
It's.
- [125:57]
Max Boltman
It's the sense. It's the vision.
- [125:59]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah. I mean, well, I have vision, he doesn't.
- [126:04]
Chris Peters
Yeah, we mentioned it earlier in the show too, but I. I do think the concussions with Dajuna were in the back of. Of some teams's minds in this process. He's had a few, a couple each year here.
- [126:15]
Max Boltman
So at the risk of making this the Ethan Belch's hour here, Corey, you. You just mentioned La Needing a center. I look at Washington, I think Washington needs a center. Ethan Belches could slide a little bit here. I mean, Utah at 19 feels like a place that he would be a great fit. But this is getting pretty late.
- [126:29]
Corey Pronman
I think you got to abandon plan sometimes if a certain asset comes in front of you. And I love Oliver Savanto, but I think he's probably a third line center.
- [126:37]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah.
- [126:37]
Corey Pronman
And so I think you got, you got to balance that. What do you think Belich is really projected if you think he's a third line wing power?
- [126:42]
Max Boltman
I think he's a top. I think I like him more than everyone on the panel. Belches, that is. Now I. You guys will certainly watch more than I do.
- [126:48]
Corey Pronman
I think if. I think I can see the argument for Savanto over him. But I think if you start getting to that next tier of centers, Brooks Rogowski, Jack Hextall, like that, then I think you're really starting to squeeze me a little bit to take some of those guys ahead of Belches.
- [127:04]
Max Boltman
And here it is, Bill Garon as the Jim Gregory GM of the Year award. And look, Bill Garon had a great year, especially if you factor in the Olympics pretty good.
- [127:13]
Scott Wheeler
And maybe you can. I don't know if you're supposed to
- [127:15]
Max Boltman
in the voting for this, but he pulls off the Quinn Hughes trademark and obviously he GM's team USA to a gold medal.
- [127:21]
Corey Pronman
Is that part of the criteria?
- [127:22]
Max Boltman
I don't know, but it's certainly changing the NHL landscape pretty well.
- [127:25]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah. I mean, I think just making the Quinn Hughes trade alone is. Is a big, is a big move. It's a, it's a franchise changing moment. It's takes a lot of, you know, fortitude to. To make a decision like that. And so I think, you know, that's probably going to get honored more years. But you think about, you know, I go back to like this, it should be a cumulative award probably and not an annual award. Because if you say, okay, well, Eric told turned an awful situation with the Miko Rantman situation, turning it into Logan Stankovin. And I thought, well, they got the third best player in that deal, but he just helped them win a Stanley Cup. I mean, like that is.
- [127:59]
Chris Peters
It's.
- [127:59]
Scott Wheeler
It's pretty incredible.
- [128:00]
Chris Peters
And the Carolina Hurricanes just won a Stanley cup and have all of their. Have a first round pick in the next three drafts.
- [128:07]
Scott Wheeler
That is. Yeah, I actually was not aware, I was seriously not aware that you could go and win a Stanley cup without Trey trading your first or first round pick. I did not know That I really don't care.
- [128:15]
Corey Pronman
The gym of the war. I do gym of the year, where I do care what LA is about to do here. So what if they went Savanto here? What would you guys think with belches still on the board?
- [128:24]
Chris Peters
I wouldn't like it.
- [128:25]
Scott Wheeler
I, I don't, I, I, they're not far apart on my list.
- [128:30]
Max Boltman
Guys, LA needs him now. Savanto's young and he's a center and I get that. That's.
- [128:34]
Corey Pronman
Kopitar is gone now. There's no senders at the, at the amateur level and they got center help with.
- [128:39]
Max Boltman
The NHL stands with Kopitar retiring. They need something to go really, really right for them to get back into contention.
- [128:45]
Scott Wheeler
Right.
- [128:46]
Max Boltman
Especially they're in a division with the Anaheim Ducks. They're in a division with the San Jose Sharks. This is a break much like Chase Reed going to the Seattle Kraken. This is the kind of break that the Los Angeles Kings need. And I feel like true power skill wingers in the NHL have become as hard to find as centers.
- [129:01]
Chris Peters
I don't think so.
- [129:02]
Corey Pronman
Our commenters think you're like a belches truther.
- [129:04]
Chris Peters
Right?
- [129:04]
Max Boltman
I am a belches truther.
- [129:05]
Chris Peters
It's fine. I just don't think Suvanto makes any plays. Like for a 6:3. For a 6:3 sender. His game offensively is extremely vanilla.
- [129:15]
Corey Pronman
He did have a brutal second half. What do you have, like zero goals in like 15 junior games?
- [129:21]
Chris Peters
I would be shocked he produced these pros. Well, he didn't produce against.
- [129:25]
Scott Wheeler
Not really.
- [129:26]
Corey Pronman
For a guy.
- [129:27]
Chris Peters
Is that a week?
- [129:27]
Corey Pronman
A week being 27 eligible. He produced the national team like he was one of their best players at the world juniors.
- [129:32]
Scott Wheeler
Still think that's true? That's true.
- [129:34]
Corey Pronman
I know it's true. Thank you.
- [129:36]
Scott Wheeler
Well, you had to make one good point. It's been a while.
- [129:39]
Corey Pronman
Well, we're losing Steve here.
- [129:42]
Chris Peters
We're getting punchy.
- [129:43]
Corey Pronman
I will say Vasovanto, first game of the season. NHL season. Starting Helena Gretzky, first game of the year I go to was Canada versus Finland. Canada has their plethora of first rounders on the ice, including Ethan Belichis. Savanto was the best player in that game. He dominated team Canada and all their great defensemen. Carl's Rudolph Verhoff, Ryan Lynn. He pinned them in the, in, in their end. Lana Dupont was on that team.
- [130:09]
Chris Peters
That was ten and a half months ago.
- [130:10]
Corey Pronman
Okay, I'm aware what the summer was, but my point is there is what's
- [130:13]
Max Boltman
the best case scenario for him? Like, what's the best case scenario for
- [130:16]
Corey Pronman
his progression, I think like Shane Pinto, I think because Pinto's also not a great skater.
- [130:20]
Max Boltman
The office, I think or Selkie candidate
- [130:22]
Scott Wheeler
at least got votes.
- [130:23]
Max Boltman
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [130:24]
Corey Pronman
I think that that's, you know, I
- [130:25]
Scott Wheeler
think what if they take neither?
- [130:26]
Corey Pronman
You look at Lundell when he was a late birth in his draft year. You look at this guy who's a couple days away from being eligible for next year's draft. I don't think you separate them by 12 months. Lundell was ahead, but I don't think he was dramatically ahead. But now there's a trade.
- [130:38]
Max Boltman
All right, there's a trade being announced. We'll see what that's going to be. Utah Mammoth have traded up. I just said this would be a pretty good Utah be a pretty good spot for Belches.
- [130:47]
Scott Wheeler
You guys want Belches here? You want Belches?
- [130:49]
Corey Pronman
I mean he fits what they, they want to a te. I mean, I mean Bill Armstrong's probably salivating right now to get a 65 winger with, with legit skill a team
- [131:00]
Max Boltman
that already has Lawson Kraus on their team. Yeah.
- [131:03]
Scott Wheeler
I mean and yeah, and Daniel Boots.
- [131:05]
Chris Peters
Yeah.
- [131:06]
Corey Pronman
Like I mean Cole BO D down the middle. They are going to be, they are going to be a big mean team to play, which is great because then
- [131:14]
Scott Wheeler
you still have Cooley and you have Keller. You have that balance. Balance, like that's the thing. Yeah. I mean they've got so much.
- [131:21]
Corey Pronman
Yeah. I mean I mentioned San Jose earlier, but I think once you get past San Jose, you're talking about Utah.
- [131:26]
Scott Wheeler
They're in, they're in the cut. They're in the conversation for sure.
- [131:29]
Max Boltman
Utah, I mean Utah's already made the playoff here. If you're Utah, would you try to make like a splash trade this summer? Would you be willing to deal from that?
- [131:35]
Corey Pronman
Yes.
- [131:36]
Max Boltman
From the top of it to go after.
- [131:37]
Corey Pronman
I think they're ready to turn a corner. You saw there were like a top 10 possession team last year. Get a little bit more consistent goaltending, get a hard a hot, get a high impact, high scoring player into that lineup. And you see some of those young kids, Purdue come along. You got to imagine some of those locomotive Russians, Dimitri Sinishev, Daniel Boot, Maverick Lamrou are going to start pushing here soon. I, I think they're close to becoming a contender.
- [131:56]
Max Boltman
I'm talking about dealing from that class of player though. Boots and Michelle.
- [131:58]
Corey Pronman
Yes. I mean but they have so many of them. Lamouru could play on the team next year for all we know. So not all these Kids are going to play. You know, Scott was saying to us earlier that he thinks TJ Gin was on the team next year.
- [132:08]
Chris Peters
I think they think TJ Gin was
- [132:11]
Corey Pronman
probably for Caleb Denoyer, fourth overall pick. Probably thinks he's close. Not all. There's only so many roster spots on a team last I checked.
- [132:17]
Max Boltman
That's true.
- [132:18]
Scott Wheeler
Tucson Roadrunners are going to be fun to watch next year if nothing else. I mean like this is, this is really on flow hockey. That exactly right. Thank you very much, Scott.
- [132:26]
Corey Pronman
For. Michigan State's probably thrilled if they take Beliches because they'll wait like they'll wait at least two years.
- [132:33]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, they don't have any. Yeah, I mean, I, I, you have, you have to think like, I mean this just seems like a Bill Armstrong pick.
- [132:40]
Max Boltman
So it could be Pugachev. I mean frankly, like, I think you had Pugachev tiered in the same.
- [132:44]
Corey Pronman
Watch them come up again like Liam Ruck or something like that.
- [132:46]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah. If they go, if they go small and skilled and they're like, yeah, we gotta, we gotta have.
- [132:50]
Chris Peters
I've heard they like Ryan Lamb.
- [132:51]
Max Boltman
Well, they actually did just. In the Paterka trade, didn't they just get a pick that they could use to go ruck, ruck.
- [132:58]
Scott Wheeler
I mean 45. 45. Was it 45 that they got?
- [133:01]
Max Boltman
No, they got, they got another one in the first for. From.
- [133:04]
Scott Wheeler
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [133:05]
Max Boltman
23.
- [133:06]
Scott Wheeler
I think it is. So now we're, so now we're.
- [133:08]
Max Boltman
Yeah, you're on Ruck watch.
- [133:09]
Scott Wheeler
We're on rock.
- [133:10]
Max Boltman
This would be early, right?
- [133:11]
Scott Wheeler
This would be really. This would be pretty early.
- [133:13]
Corey Pronman
I think we're getting there. I think it's early.
- [133:15]
Scott Wheeler
Ish.
- [133:16]
Corey Pronman
But we're getting there.
- [133:17]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah. I mean like the thing is his belt chess is still on there. Still there.
- [133:21]
Corey Pronman
You. And when you trade up, it has to be somebody you're super passionate about. It's not just someone you like. And you got to imagine if you think about what The Utah Mammoth 10 tend to prioritize, you gotta imagine they're not just happy to get beliches.
- [133:32]
Max Boltman
Washington tends to prioritize stuff like this too. That employs Tom Wilson. They have both.
- [133:36]
Chris Peters
Washington also has about 500 wingers, so
- [133:39]
Max Boltman
you could, you could. My point is you could tell a
- [133:41]
Scott Wheeler
pretty good story that.
- [133:42]
Max Boltman
Okay, Utah didn't, didn't think that one of those two guys, whether it's Pugachev or Belches, is getting past Washington and they had to jump Washington to go get him. Let's see what Gary Bettman has to
- [133:51]
Corey Pronman
Say,
- [133:55]
Scott Wheeler
this is riveting. Here we go.
- [133:59]
Max Boltman
He's slow playing me. He's messing with me.
- [134:07]
Scott Wheeler
This is bated breath. What's happening.
- [134:08]
Corey Pronman
This is great television.
- [134:09]
Max Boltman
He's talking, people. All right, that's fine. We'll go back to talking about it. The Utah Mammoth, though, Chris. This is my question about the Mammoth. When you have Logan Cooley and Dylan Genther, and these are kind of your next wave of stars, they keep Nick Schmaltz, right?
- [134:22]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah.
- [134:22]
Max Boltman
Is this a team that can kind of merge those cores successfully? And as you break in all these young players that we're talking about, you kind of still have established NHL scoring talent that can carry the load until they're ready to be impact guys?
- [134:34]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think that's. That's kind of the way it feels like they're building is like. And it's also like, interestingly, like, how many of those guys are, you know, a lot of them are former Coyotes now coming into the original. Now original mammoth guys that are, you know, part of this organization. There's a lot of things at play there. I mean, you think of what they're doing as an organization as a whole, building a new practice facility, starting to really sew their oats a little bit here as. As. As an NHL franchise. There will be that transitional phase, but, gosh, that group that they still have now is so good. Where it feels like, hey, we're buying ourselves some time with some of these players. We're getting those guys like, you know, denoia, if. Whether or not he's on the team next year, t. Whether he's or not he's on the. The team next year, they're, you know, no more than two years away, it would feel like. So they've got a lot of good things going right here. And, And. And this is a. An organization that I think is definitely building momentum in a market that is ripe for some real growth. And so I'm excited to see it. Obviously, you know, I think any of us want to see hockey continue to grow throughout the country, but, like, you know, they've got a lot of work to do still to just continue to build that relationship.
- [135:41]
Max Boltman
Have you been to see a game there?
- [135:42]
Scott Wheeler
I haven't been there yet, but, like, that, I'm very much looking forward to.
- [135:46]
Max Boltman
I had been to Salt Lake one time before, and. And I liked it.
- [135:49]
Scott Wheeler
Right.
- [135:50]
Max Boltman
I mean, the mountains are an easy sell. I was really impressed with Salt Lake City there, and I was really impressed with the passion of the fan base. I was walking around and I think I counted like nine, 10 different player names on the back of jerseys in that area. Like, that market has really taken to the.
- [136:02]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah. And I think you. Now you just increase. You enhance that relationship here as. As we get ready to see who they ultimately are going to select. Yeah. Good thing we didn't just stop talking
- [136:14]
Max Boltman
there in silence and wait for that whole promo reel. Was that Patrice Bergeron? I don't know.
- [136:19]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, so this was. Yeah. So the group that's announcing the pick is. Is from the team that was, you know, had that tragedy in Pawtucket, Rhode island, who, you know, one of the players had lost family members in a shooting, and they're now announcing the pick. So they did get a visit from Patrice Bergeron, and I'm sure that they were slotted to make a pick here in the middle of the period range. And then also the players have been the ones handing the players that. Doing the runners and handing the players the jerseys and all those different things, because normally the team would have their own representative, but these guys are wearing their jerseys. I mean, a remarkable story. And yeah, just. It was really cool to see Patrice Bergeron, obviously a lot of Bruins fans in that group in Rhode island to. To go do that. So now we're. We're getting a great moment on the draft floor, which is really, you know, we've seen some really great emotional moments over these last couple of years. Now we're getting a chance to see this is. This is a big moment for Utah as well, and they're going to be part of this emotional moment.
- [137:13]
Max Boltman
Absolutely.
- [137:17]
Scott Wheeler
Here's the pick.
- [137:25]
Chris Peters
And
- [137:28]
Scott Wheeler
it's coming.
- [137:28]
Chris Peters
We'd been clicking at a pace here, and that pace as the trades really changed.
- [137:34]
Max Boltman
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Starting with St. Louis at 15. That trade, they go all the way on the clock, actually past probably the clock, and then we reset here. But this is, you could tell, like the emotion in the audience, a really touching moment. Even though I don't have the audio on, I can't really hear what's being said. Reactions tell you the story.
- [137:52]
Corey Pronman
Max, you're obviously cover the Red Wings full time. Were you surprised that Larkin didn't. Didn't get moved today?
- [137:56]
Max Boltman
No, I'm not. Because I think once the flurry of action happened earlier this week, and a lot of the picks that would have probably enticed Detroit to make a move just didn't. You know, the interesting one would have been Seattle. Like, if Dallas had gotten that seventh pick from Seattle, that was one that could have made a lot of sense for them. But once a lot of those top 10 picks are out of play, what's Detroit's rush to do a deal right now? Yeah, I don't think, I don't think
- [138:18]
Chris Peters
the piece you're looking for, especially if his list is as short as has been reported and it is Ethan Dolches.
- [138:23]
Max Boltman
So his weight ends Scott. And you know, we've talked about him enough. But I'll go back to here and just to me, you know, to me I see a player who, that's a unique skill set. I know it wasn't consistent the whole year, but for Utah, this is a great spot to get a guy like this.
- [138:35]
Chris Peters
You look around the league at some of the bright success stories that have come out of the NHS draft. I'm not talking about top 10 picks, but the players who've been picked in the second, third round who've had sort of impacts here in recent years. And I immediately go to Matthew Nies and that's a player who I know that Ethan has talked a little bit about. We talked earlier. Is there such a thing as being too big, too early? I think we've seen it play out with Colby Barlow and the lack of sort of continued development that Colby Barlow has had. And Colby was kind of, kind of looked that way. He had the beard and he was physically mature at a really early age. But then there are other guys like a Matthew Knives, like an Aaron Ekblad who had that early on and just stayed bigger and stronger than everybody else. And this is a kid who we've, we've all been in the same room as him. He's going to walk into an NHL locker room tomorrow and or next year for his first training camp after Michigan State. Whatever it is, he's immediately not just going to be a big kid in that locker room. He's going to be bigger than everybody else on the roster. He's going to add something to an NHL roster except Daniel Boot maybe, although he's a thicker kid than, than Daniel is. But just that is so, so, so hard to find. And to find it almost in the 20s is, is I think a coup
- [139:53]
Corey Pronman
here and I think he's going to get the development time. I think he's a two year college player, maybe even a three year college player. Given that the need to develop the skating and given that Utah has so many options to work with that, you know, in terms of young players, there's no need to rush this player. It's going to get into the pro level.
- [140:09]
Max Boltman
I mean you're Going to have Lawson Kraus for the next two or three years are probably the rest of Lawson Kraus prime. And then Ethan Belches is going to enter and I think play a pretty similar role. Maybe with even a little more touch, I would say.
- [140:19]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, I mean, I would expect his offense to come a little bit more, but yeah, I think you're now putting his development in the hands of a very capable staff at Michigan State. The opportunity to continue to grow, the chance to earn ice time to where he hasn't, you know, like he's, he's been a top guy for so long, he's not going to go in and immediately be the guy there. He's going to be an important player, but not immediately be the guy. Great lesson for him to learn as he kind of goes into this mode here. But I think if you're, I think if you're Utah, you have to be thrilled here to get this player. I think it's worth moving up and worth making a, making a good choice here. I really like him a lot. You know, I do think that there's, there's plenty to pull out of him and I just, like I said, I just want to see him find that identity as a player where he's able to more seamlessly meld that competitive, hard, heavy game with that skill game that he does possess.
- [141:10]
Corey Pronman
This has been the Chase Reed and Ethan Belches show so far in terms of the amount of airtime they've gotten.
- [141:15]
Chris Peters
That's the followers, though they dominate.
- [141:17]
Max Boltman
It is. That's Aaron Rodgers, right? I remember not saying either of those guys is Aaron Rodgers, but that's, that's how it goes when we expect a guy to go high and we don't see the name, we wonder why and we, you know, that becomes the conversation now.
- [141:27]
Corey Pronman
Now Washington's assistant general manager Ross Mahoney, who, who runs their drafts, did indicate his preference, quote unquote, would be to get a big center in this year's draft.
- [141:36]
Max Boltman
There's one there.
- [141:37]
Corey Pronman
Yeah, I'm looking at a 6 foot 3 center who fits in this range at Savanto. I know you guys all hate him, but I, but I think like the season seems to be one that's tending to line up here. I don't see any other big centers on the list. I might be missing somebody obvious, but there's not, I mean, I mean there's only so many big centers who have
- [141:54]
Scott Wheeler
actually Brooks for Galaxy.
- [141:56]
Corey Pronman
That is, that is a big center there.
- [141:58]
Chris Peters
You can also.
- [141:59]
Corey Pronman
You have hockey questions on Savanto. There's More hockey questions on Regal.
- [142:02]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, I agree. No, but I, I. And the thing is, is that Washington has not picked a lot of fins. That's something that it was pointed out exclusively to me because I believe I mocked him in what time? By a lot of Washington fans and they never pick a fit.
- [142:16]
Chris Peters
I've heard that too.
- [142:18]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, but I, but I think in this, in this instance, there's a first time for everything. And I do think that that's a, that's a possibility. Savanto was one of those guys that was very consistently in the teens and in, in pulled rankings. There are a lot of teams that do believe despite the fact that there are some offensive questions, his be, you know, his B game is pretty significant. Like where there is an ability for him to be. Be a matchup Sky a guy that is as hard and heavy to play against. I think his world juniors was one of those indicating moments. But we'll see. I mean like that's the. Now, now you're looking in Washington. What are they going to do? There's also. They've loved their WHL guys too.
- [142:56]
Corey Pronman
That's so, so Ryan Lynn Hurlburch would be what would be. Yeah, I think that, I think it's mostly Western Canadian. Not just, not just, not, not just Western.
- [143:05]
Scott Wheeler
That's true. That's true. That's very fair. Very fair.
- [143:07]
Max Boltman
Washington has had one of the most interesting offsets seasons in the NHL.
- [143:10]
Scott Wheeler
Oh, my goodness.
- [143:10]
Max Boltman
They trade the pick to get Jordan Kyra. They also make a trade to get the signing rights to Alex Tuck, who they immediately extend. We don't have word on Alexander Ovechkin's plan for next season yet, but with or without him, it is a very loaded winger core they have. When you factor in Alexi Protus, when you factor in Ryan Leonard, Tom Wilson, you know, the centers are the question. I don't think whoever they pick here is going to help next year.
- [143:30]
Chris Peters
Look at their more recent picks too. Tarek Parasak, Andrew Crystal. Like it is.
- [143:35]
Scott Wheeler
Ilia Protus.
- [143:36]
Chris Peters
I think they think Ilia is the center.
- [143:38]
Corey Pronman
Merles the Cenko.
- [143:39]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah, it's a lot of wings.
- [143:43]
Max Boltman
Strome Dubois and Ilya Produs. I mean, they've traded away Hendrix lapierre as well as part of this offseason. But are Strom Dubois and Ilya Produs a good enough 1, 2, 3 centers to get? I mean, they're in a division with the Stanley cup champions. It's a tough road, but is that a competitive enough trio of centers?
- [143:59]
Corey Pronman
Competitive Enough, but you're not, you're wishing for a little bit more offense, but I think it's competitive enough. I think, I think Ilya Produs is a real player. Like I think he goes top 10 if you redo that draft.
- [144:10]
Scott Wheeler
Oh yes.
- [144:11]
Chris Peters
Yeah, he's there.
- [144:11]
Scott Wheeler
He was incredible in the AHL this year with Hershey.
- [144:14]
Chris Peters
He was incredible in Windsor.
- [144:15]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, he was incredible in Windsor.
- [144:16]
Chris Peters
He was what they probably were hoping that Ethan Belchers was going to be for them.
- [144:20]
Scott Wheeler
There were, there were quite a few teams that were like saying, you know, when we, when we talk to scouts and like where do you think guys are going to go? And all of a sudden towards the end of the year you're saying Ilia Protus when he was playing with the Des Moines Buccaneers in the USHL and he didn't produce. He did not produce. And then all of a sudden bang. He had an amazing season. The ohl, another great season last year.
- [144:37]
Corey Pronman
That's why they have scouts.
- [144:38]
Scott Wheeler
So that's. And that's why they do their thing and that's why you know, sometimes player cards don't always tell you the full story.
- [144:44]
Corey Pronman
I think don't be mean like that.
- [144:47]
Max Boltman
Washington is going to be kind of the, the aspiration for a lot of teams that want to rebuild on the fly. I mean this was a team that looked like it was headed for a true gut it rebuild and they've managed to get back to competitiveness. Spencer Carberry obviously has a big time big hand in that. But even the way they've retooled the roster getting chickered and now Tuck and you know I think Matt Roy was a great. It's Oliver Suvanto for the Capitals core agent. Just like you wanted it to be vindicated.
- [145:11]
Corey Pronman
Yes. I think you know the 63 guy there is offense, there is playmaking in his game. He is competitive. I think there's a lot of good things about this player's game. Is it high end skill? No, I think you know you. Because I think you got away all the evidence. You see the guy who's performed an international play, who's been a first line center but you also got to consider the fact that after he was sent down to the finished J20 league he had something like six points in 20 games in a really like not a league that does not tend to produce NHL players in their draft season. So there's some concerns there. Like I think you got to be realistic. But I think the. Listen there were scouts I talked to when he was lighting it up. Not lighting up after he had the good Hilika Gretzky and then he had a really good start to his league of season. There were scouts I was talking to tell me he was going to go to top five. Now Tyler Lawrence at one point is going to go top five and Ethan Belicht at one point he's going to go top five. You got to watch, got to look, watch all the games and away all the evidence. But I do think he has talent and I think that you know they're, you know he's I think got a really good chance to be a middle six center in the NHL.
- [146:08]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, I, I think he does too. I think the, the ability to play the matchups and the, the other things that he has in his game and the way that he was relied upon. Like, you know, Finland did name him one of their top three forwards at, at the world Juniors, which one was in large part because they could just put him in any situation and he was going to deliver something positive for them. And so I do think like he didn't.
- [146:26]
Chris Peters
He still didn't produce though.
- [146:28]
Scott Wheeler
He did not produce.
- [146:28]
Chris Peters
He had what, two goals produce. But I. Three points. Three points at U18 Worlds and we're talking about him as a standout from the tournament.
- [146:35]
Corey Pronman
He was one of their best players.
- [146:37]
Scott Wheeler
I mean at the, at the, at the world Juniors, I think it was the. Not producing was not the problem. Like that was not the problem.
- [146:45]
Chris Peters
That's been his game every step of the way here. Like every time I've watched him play, he's in the offensive zone, he's holding the puck on the cycle, he's winning battles and then he, and then he changes like that finishing play, the, the play. And Viggo Bjork, we've talked about it on the show too. Viggo Bjork, you could probably make a similar case that ego didn't he. You love seeing him on the puck, you love seeing the playmaking. But he didn't actually maybe produce as in line with what you're seeing in the player. I think subanto is that to the extreme, like you have to make the finishing play. You have to make skill plays to play in the NHL at lower levels.
- [147:22]
Corey Pronman
So if they want a center, who would you have taken instead?
- [147:24]
Chris Peters
You don't take a center, you take, you take Ryan Lynn, you take. Like there are options here and maybe you don't take a winger, but there are, there are options here.
- [147:36]
Scott Wheeler
Would you, would you rather have. This is a, this is a dumb question, but would you rather have Ryan Lynn like, you have Cole, you have Cole Hudson.
- [147:45]
Chris Peters
I think, I think you can have both.
- [147:47]
Scott Wheeler
You can have both. But not a lot of teams would agree. I would say, like a lot of, A lot of teams, you can have both. But I think they did. The Hurricanes just did it. Like with, with Walker did it. Yeah, exactly. They're so Gerard was hurt during that. But yeah, but. Yeah, but like, that's, that's going to be, that's going to be the kind of the argument is. Is so I, I would see, like, that's where, you know, if I'm Washington, I'm looking at that. Maybe that's part of my discussion because as we mentioned, they like their Western Canadian players, but apparently not that one.
- [148:15]
Corey Pronman
Well, the last time they took a center in the first round was Hendrix Lapierre, who they just traded, and Connor McMichael, who they just traded. So I understand from the position they're like, okay, next center up. And I know people are going to, you know, squirm and say, but it's always best player available. I can assure you they are not the first team to say where the general manager says, give us a setter.
- [148:36]
Max Boltman
All right, we're going to take a quick break right there. We'll come back when the LA Kings are ready to pick. Need up to $250 before payday.
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Corey Pronman
You know the vibe.
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Max Boltman
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Scott Wheeler
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Scott Wheeler
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Corey Pronman
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- [150:01]
Max Boltman
All right, we are back. LA Kings on the clock. They were Already on the clock once here, but now we're starting to thin out there. I don't think there's an obvious best player left core. There's two guys for you in your upper tier, Glenn Pugachev and Casey Mutren.
- [150:12]
Corey Pronman
Yeah. But I also think LA, like Washington is going to like say that they're going to want to improve their center depth. I have heard them link to Jack Hextall. This might be early for Hex Doll. It wouldn't surprise me if this is. This is the name you hear. But. But the LA also needs a lot. This isn't like a very deep farm system. I would say it's one of the bottom five or so farm systems in the NHL right now. Especially after trading away Liam Green. Trading away Liam Green tree. So we'll see what they do here.
- [150:38]
Max Boltman
Scott, what do you think the need is is for la?
- [150:41]
Chris Peters
The need is everything. To Corey's point. They took Bruce Davich last year. Taking Bruce Davich does not mean that there's no longer a need on D. They have goalies, but there are no goalies that are going to go in this range regardless. So you're taking a forward or a D here. My guess. I've also heard Hextall, I, I don't think Ryan Lynn lasts much longer here. Hurlburt. Hurlburt's in this mix. Like we're starting to get into that
- [151:06]
Corey Pronman
tier and it's Elton Hermanson and it's.
- [151:08]
Max Boltman
This fits right with what you're saying, right? Because the way you're basically talking about they need everything. So how about going to get one of the most purely skilled players in
- [151:15]
Chris Peters
the class And Hermanson, like puck on his stick inside the off offensive zone, can break open a game. He can break open a game with his shot. He can break open a game one on one made some of the more creative one on one plays that I saw any of the players in this draft class make. The question with Hermanson throughout the year was sort of wavering compete level at times where you wanted to see him play a little bit harder, be a little bit more involved. But he was big in big moments for them still. And we were, I remember sitting in in Bratislava with Corey and we were talking about sort of the up and down turn tournament that he'd had and then in the games that mattered he scored and then he scored in the next game that mattered and he made plays and they won the gold medal. And it was the same thing in, in at the pro level this year. This is A kid who scored in line with and frankly he goes in a similar range to David Pasternak, but scored in hockey. El Svenskin in line with players like David Pasternak. And it's produced against men, which not a lot of these kids.
- [152:11]
Max Boltman
It's not small.
- [152:11]
Chris Peters
He's six one and a half.
- [152:13]
Corey Pronman
It's a small swing, it's average size, but it's really high end skill. Maybe you're getting past neck. Maybe you get Eddie Shaw who went around this range too. Like that's the risk here. I think with scouts. The one thing with Hermansen that they liked is he didn't just. Yes, you saw the junior games. There were some off moments, inconsistent efforts. You saw the elite skill. But when he played against men, he did play effectively. It wasn't tremendous production at the hockey House Fenskin level in Sweden, but he still was able to help his team and help and score and show some pro habits that you think, okay, we can work with this.
- [152:45]
Max Boltman
Chris Hermanson, to me, you know, when you talk about what LA has lacked, there's just not a lot of sizzle in the LA Kings team. He can bring sizzle.
- [152:54]
Scott Wheeler
He does. Yeah, he brings sizzle. And I think that that's a reason that I had him a little bit higher on my board as well, is because there is that dynamic element. We talked a lot about how there are guys that may have the dynamic element, but they have flaws. I mean, like guys that have gone already. Dajuna, Klepov, I mean, others that have skill, but there are things in their games that you maybe don't love. I think that with Hermanson, you are, you are banking on scoring and that's what he can do and that's what he will do, I think. And to Corey's point, the fact that he was still effective against men goes a long way with a lot of teams. It gives them a lot more confidence to make that decision.
- [153:29]
Chris Peters
He, he was my BPA here. He was 15th on my list. Once you got through those 14 names that we spent all show talking about, Hermanson was my next guy.
- [153:38]
Max Boltman
All right, on the clock now is the Buffalo Sabres. They've made one pick already. It was the first surprise of the draft. Dax and Rudolph. But it's a, that's a clear projection here. Open board for a deep, deep system. Now, Corey, how do you look at this from Buffalo's perspective?
- [153:49]
Corey Pronman
I mean, they have so much of everything and like they've, they've got talent at center and nid young talent. You know, obviously, I think they're they maybe Goldies they use a little bit more but there's no goalie here that, that makes sense. You know, take a swing on a high skill guy. I think take a swing on a unique athletic profile. Like I think there's, there's a, they have a real opportunity with this pick to try and add a player that might be considered more risky to some if there was, if there was only first round pick.
- [154:15]
Max Boltman
So that'd be Lynn Hurlburt Blyle.
- [154:18]
Corey Pronman
I think they know those Russian players usually call that injury risk. Players fall into that, into that pool. So we'll see.
- [154:24]
Chris Peters
One name I've heard they really, really like is Celia Morozov. So I, I wonder about him here. Six, three center who's not the most skilled player but physically mature going to play. I think they need a little bit more size within their lineup. We've Helenius, Benson, Ostland, they're all kind of 5, 9, 5 10, 5 11. I do wonder about Morozov as a potential sort of third line center of the future for them here and I know that, I know they like him.
- [154:53]
Max Boltman
I have to say when the night started I would have been shocked, shocked to find out the Buffalo Sabers made both of these picks. I don't know if again we had, we had this earlier with St. Louis. I don't know if they've already traded this and I just don't realize it but yeah, yeah, check the chat chat let me know if Buffalo
- [155:08]
Corey Pronman
are we surprised they didn't trade the four?
- [155:10]
Max Boltman
I'm. I thought they would trade one of the two and I think you could definitely justify making the fourth pick because it's such a rare chance to add a premium asset. You don't get that chance when you're a good team anymore and so I get making that one but I kind of felt like this one would get traded for a now player.
- [155:24]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, it's. But it's tough to know right. Like I think like we saw that the two first round picks that it would have cost to get a Mason McTavish and different things you have to have the assets here and in while we've seen the trade market get pretty active and other things like I just think that in this range of the draft that's when you start falling out of you're not getting those guys that teams have to have and so that's kind of an interesting part of it as well. And so so the other thing is hosting the draft. There does come some amount of pressure to that and I, I do think that that's also, it was a sold out draft on top of it. So, you know, like, you know, I'm hearing from a lot of people that are like, I, I, I thought I could get tickets normally, you could not this year. So you know, I, I think that that was a part of it as well. And it, it, it's not a big factor, but it's a factor nonetheless. And so now, now that you're in this range, you got great opportunities here. I think, think because you've already made that big pick up at the top, you can continue to make that swing. And now the pick is in and they're going to make the pick and, and a great opportunity once again for the Sabers to continue building on a team that is already pretty darn competitive.
- [156:32]
Max Boltman
All right, so as this, as the Sabers get ready to make their, their second pick of the night here, Corey, do you pretty, I mean, you've talked about how, I don't know, I don't know if we talked about this on camera, but you and I have talked about, you don't know, especially with some of the departures here. Losing Tuck, losing Byram, where they stack up in the Atlantic next year. Right now, playoff, no playoff. How would you size up the Buffalo Sabres for next season?
- [156:50]
Corey Pronman
Right now, no playoff.
- [156:52]
Max Boltman
Okay. And it is Ilya Morozov, one of the youngest players in college hockey. Yeah, very good call. Ilya Mirozov, one of the youngest players in college hockey.
- [156:59]
Chris Peters
Chris.
- [157:00]
Max Boltman
And at the Miami University of Miami of Ohio. What does he bring to this organization? They just traded away Anton Wahlberg and I almost wonder if there's some rhyme there.
- [157:07]
Scott Wheeler
Well, yeah, you know, I think what, what Morozov is, is, is, is a very incomplete picture at the moment, but he's an exciting opportunity for a team. I think he's a bit of a project. He goes into college year early at Miami University in Ohio. Just, I, I don't, I don't want chat to get after us on that one. Miami University. Miami University.
- [157:24]
Max Boltman
I know, my apologies.
- [157:25]
Scott Wheeler
So, so, yeah, but my, but Morozov has the size. I think there is a bit more offense to gain there. I've seen some big time plays from him. Now, Miami was a program that was in dire straits two years ago. He comes in early, which I think was a great job by their staff to make sure that he was able to get eligible and do all the things he needed to do to get in early. And he comes in and he is an immediate impact player despite being One of the youngest players in college hockey. Last year at the Fall Classic in the ushl. I came away, I was like, this guy is. There were some things he was doing there that I was like, this guy is going to be special. He had to adjust and there's still been more adjustment in college. I think he has a chance to be a transformational player for that program. Certainly going first round is going to help that. But I think the best is yet to come for him and he's maybe there for a year or two more. But good development ahead. And that's a guy that I think will score as a middle six, kind of third, probably third line center.
- [158:22]
Chris Peters
I know teams really challenged him at the combine too on we don't think you have offense. What convince us that you have offense.
- [158:30]
Corey Pronman
So did he score a goal afterwards?
- [158:32]
Chris Peters
No, but that's, that's the. In the conversation around Morozov. He got off to a great start. He was their first line center at Miami. Was extremely productive in that early part of the season. And then he went. I think it was like a 15, 16 game stretch without a point.
- [158:47]
Scott Wheeler
Yes.
- [158:47]
Chris Peters
Late in the year. And he finished, he did finish a little bit stronger towards the, the very final home stretch of the season. But, but the question is sort of. We love the size. We love like you see him around the rink. He's not Ethan Belches. But this kid's huge.
- [159:01]
Max Boltman
We had Corey's tool grades up on the screen. I mean below average hockey stance. That's the big question with him. Your comp on him is a guy Sabres fans will be very familiar with. Zemgas Gurgensen.
- [159:08]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah.
- [159:08]
Corey Pronman
And honestly, like you always have some concerns when guys lay up the non conference games in college and then when the conference schedule starts, they vanish a little bit.
- [159:17]
Scott Wheeler
Who did he have to play with though?
- [159:18]
Corey Pronman
Yeah, I know it's. I understand. And, and you know, the numbers were not. Were good. Not great. USHL good, not great. You know, like I think there is skill there and there have been, like Chris said, there have been times I have watched him where I was buying. I'm like, okay, middle six center, top 15 pick. Like he's got a real chance to play, you know, heavy minutes, significant secondary offense in the next level. But then you watch him in that second half and you think like, is this just a less mean Charlie Stramble now? Charlie Strambel went right at this pick. Yep. And you know, three, four years later, he looks like he should have gone higher in that draft after what was initially a really Tough year or so after he was drafted. So, you know, if maybe three years from now we're talking about Morozov as a first team NCHC player.
- [160:03]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah.
- [160:03]
Corey Pronman
Who's playing heavy minutes, who's, you know, lighting up opponents and scoring and it's a Hobie candidate. Maybe that's the case. I couldn't get there like a Coach Dremel during the draft, but I see how you could draw the line there.
- [160:16]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, for sure, for sure. And I had him like 27th on my list like. And the offensive concerns were there. But I definitely can see this player continuing to mature into one of the better college hockey players. I think Miami is, is on the way too. There's going to be a better recruiting class coming in. They're going to continue to build. They're continuing to gain some reputation. Again, getting a guy like Ilya Morozov at the top end there, pretty impressive.
- [160:39]
Max Boltman
All right, so the Philadelphia Flyers are on the clock now. They're one of the most interesting teams to me because we talked about the Washington Capitals rebuild on the fly. Philly wasn't coming from the heights that Washington was coming from, but they've kind of taken a similar approach that they've tried to stay competitive. They've made a couple of really high impact picks. Mav Mitchoff, Porter Martone, they're both on the wings. Where are the centers coming from? I don't think Jack Hextall is related to another famous Hex doll in Philadelphia, but he would be the best center left on the board here.
- [161:04]
Scott Wheeler
Corey?
- [161:05]
Corey Pronman
I, I think so. I think Brooks Rowski is up there too. I don't. But yeah, both of them are probably third line centers and not that's, you know, I think that you still got to talk backs. I think if you. They have Jet Lachenko, they have Jack Nesbit, they have Jack Bergland. All of them are something along the line of second to third liners. You think? I think Lichenko may actually have to be a wing, but I think Nesbitt could be a second center. I think Bergman be a third line center. You add another potential third line center. You hope as time evens out, one misses one becomes a third line or one becomes a good two or something like that. So I wouldn't. Just because they've taken some centers who are not high upside down, I wouldn't discount a hex dollar. Rowski here.
- [161:44]
Max Boltman
Scott, you in your work earlier this year, am I crazy? Was there someone who comped Jack Hextall or at least having a chance at a Nick Suzuki like impact. Am I crazy?
- [161:52]
Chris Peters
Yeah. The staff in Youngstown have been okay. Have been kind to Jack.
- [161:58]
Scott Wheeler
No, that's, that's, God, that's great.
- [162:00]
Chris Peters
That's. He's not going, he's never going to be Nick Suzuki. Nick Suzuki had already shown more offense, et cetera, et cetera, but he's, he's the two way details. Well rounded center, I have heard. Not that I'm going to try and go back to back here, but I have heard Maxim Sokolovsky, the Tower in London. I, I know that, that the Flyers like him. I don't know whether this is maybe a little early for Sokolovsky, but he was a name that generated a lot of sort of talk in the second half of the season after a very, very difficult start to his OHL career with the London Knights.
- [162:33]
Corey Pronman
Word.
- [162:33]
Chris Peters
Lamar go Lamru went 23.
- [162:37]
Scott Wheeler
Right?
- [162:38]
Chris Peters
The comp that people have used for me when I, when I talk to people in London, when I talk to people around the ohl, the comp that they use for, for him is zadorov who went 18 and Stanley who went 16. Or one of them went 16. One of them went 18. They both, I, I, those guys were more polished.
- [162:52]
Corey Pronman
Yeah, I was gonna say that conversation with scouts about the Zadarov ones, I've heard that too. Zadarov had I think triple the production in London.
- [162:59]
Chris Peters
They both won the night.
- [163:00]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, I mean like that's the thing is like it and this would be way early for me, but I still think that they're the. His postseason run, his, his late season run. Team saw a guy that could play in the playoffs. Team saw a guy that was using his stick and his length well. They saw a guy that was physical. He saw a guy that wasn't beyond, you know, like the pace wasn't beyond him. Even though like the feet are okay, you know, so like that's, that's okay.
- [163:25]
Corey Pronman
Or good for the size.
- [163:26]
Scott Wheeler
Good for the size. Yeah. Which is, is, which is okay. Okay.
- [163:29]
Corey Pronman
Okay, whatever.
- [163:32]
Scott Wheeler
But yeah, but I mean like I think that that that's, that's going to be, that that'd be tough. But like, yeah, it's like where else do they go here? Like again, like we get into this range of this and you're going to see wide ranging opinions. I think you're going to see guys that, you know, weren't on really any public list.
- [163:47]
Chris Peters
The start of Tommy Bly, like the, the twenties.
- [163:49]
Max Boltman
Can they, can they do that? That's what they have right now.
- [163:53]
Chris Peters
Everybody in Philly Keeps telling me they need a power play. Quarterback of the future.
- [163:56]
Corey Pronman
I don't think he's a top tier tier guy, but I think a top tier guy in the league who's still the league consensus scalpel is Adam Nobody. He's still on the board right now.
- [164:04]
Scott Wheeler
Yes.
- [164:04]
Corey Pronman
I wonder. I wonder about him because we haven't really talked about him that much. In part because he didn't have a
- [164:09]
Chris Peters
great year, but he was. Playoffs.
- [164:11]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, playoffs were rough. Yeah.
- [164:13]
Corey Pronman
So, like, I do wonder if this is right around the range we start having that conversation about Novotny.
- [164:18]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah. And that's where I would. I mean, he would be the next player on my list. So, like, you know, I think. I think that there's. He's not a guy that I think you get really excited about, but he's a guy that's gonna play. I think he's gonna play. I think he's gonna play for quite a few years.
- [164:29]
Chris Peters
Excellent skater.
- [164:30]
Scott Wheeler
Yes.
- [164:31]
Chris Peters
Built like an ox. You can rip the puck itself.
- [164:36]
Corey Pronman
It would be another winger, but I think with the centers they drafted and Jack Bergland's positive progression, I don't think there's a pressing need other than maybe defenseman, but.
- [164:44]
Chris Peters
No, the pressing need is for a first line center. And you're not getting.
- [164:47]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, exactly.
- [164:49]
Corey Pronman
Dynamo on defense. And there's not one of those either.
- [164:51]
Max Boltman
If you just think it upside. What about J.P. hurlburt?
- [164:54]
Corey Pronman
It's possible, I think.
- [164:55]
Chris Peters
Yeah.
- [164:55]
Corey Pronman
Yep. I think that would. That would definitely be in range here
- [164:58]
Max Boltman
along similar lines there.
- [165:00]
Corey Pronman
Although given that they're taking their time, I wonder.
- [165:02]
Max Boltman
I was just gonna say I'm getting deja vu here.
- [165:04]
Scott Wheeler
Hey, Chat, what we got? What we got, Chat, what we got? Chat.
- [165:08]
Max Boltman
They showed us the inside look to the ESPN broadcast. Showed the look of the. Yeah, they're just hanging out there. It's like we're staring at each other.
- [165:16]
Scott Wheeler
Me and the people pick may be in.
- [165:17]
Chris Peters
I don't know.
- [165:18]
Scott Wheeler
The pick is not in, so.
- [165:20]
Corey Pronman
Well, let's ramble now since we're waiting.
- [165:22]
Scott Wheeler
Chat's not helping. Chad's saying nothing right now.
- [165:24]
Max Boltman
All right, thanks, Chat.
- [165:25]
Corey Pronman
Did could. You know when you think of the top five top eight, 10 players from last year's draft, did any one of them have a better year than Porter Martone, Matthew Schaefer? No. Well, outside of. Outside of Schaefer, I'm talking about guys outside the NHL right now. Kind of think.
- [165:41]
Max Boltman
No, you'd have to say no.
- [165:43]
Corey Pronman
Frondell had a night, had some nice stretches. The end of the NHL, but But I remember when we were at the, when we were doing this, you know, our draft coverage, one of the big conversations with the Flyers last year is they gotta take a center here. It's gotta be Hagan's, it's gotta be Jake o'. Brien. But then they go and get. And then they go up and they take Porter. And I think Martone is not only ahead of Hagan's and o', Brien, he's clearly ahead of the guys.
- [166:06]
Scott Wheeler
So here's.
- [166:07]
Max Boltman
Here's what the delay was on the Philly picks. So the San Jose Sharks are trading up to the 21st overall pick. Right. They were originally at that 20th pick. They flipped it with Buffalo earlier in the week in the Michael Kesselring trade back to number 27. Now they're trading up from 27, along with 62 and 120 for 21. And it's your boy Pugachev that I'm thinking here.
- [166:28]
Corey Pronman
It's very. It's very possible. They are an organization that's been willing to gamble on Russians. Obviously they did that with Chernischev a couple of years ago. I'm looking at the list. Maybe it's Lynn, maybe it's Novotny. Those would be the names that would come to mind.
- [166:41]
Chris Peters
The idea, the idea of coming out of this with Ivar Stenberg, Keaton Verhoff and Ryan Lynn to me is that's a haul.
- [166:50]
Scott Wheeler
It's just greedy at that point.
- [166:52]
Max Boltman
We've already called them the best farm
- [166:53]
Scott Wheeler
system by a mile. Yeah.
- [166:55]
Chris Peters
Suddenly your. Your blue line looks.
- [166:57]
Max Boltman
That's your best available. Right. I mean, I think you said no, he was there.
- [167:00]
Scott Wheeler
But it.
- [167:00]
Chris Peters
Yes.
- [167:01]
Max Boltman
Is your best available by a mile.
- [167:02]
Chris Peters
I have win 10 on my list. I actually said earlier that, that my best available was Hermanson, and it wouldn't have been Herman. It would have been. So I misspoke there.
- [167:10]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah. Yeah. Because this is, this is interesting though, because now. Well, we saw the fist pumping going on in the room too, when the trade came through. So obviously they're really excited about the guy that they're going to get here. Also for Philly, we're just. We were struggling to figure out who they should take.
- [167:26]
Max Boltman
Maybe they were too.
- [167:27]
Scott Wheeler
That was the, that's the move to do when you don't. To want. When just get more opportunities so they get three picks out of the deal.
- [167:34]
Max Boltman
Especially. You're talking about Rowski. Like Rowski could be there.
- [167:36]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, he could be. Certainly could be.
- [167:38]
Corey Pronman
I think you. I see you talk about a 23. That would scare me if you're looking at Rowski.
- [167:42]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I mean Pugachev's still up there too, so.
- [167:45]
Corey Pronman
Yeah, he is up there. I think Hex Doll could be there.
- [167:47]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah. So there's, there's a lot of options but now. Yeah, now if you're, if you're San Jose and you're loving your night, let's
- [167:54]
Corey Pronman
see who they came up to get.
- [167:55]
Scott Wheeler
All right. Pick is in. They didn't, I mean they didn't win which I love by the way.
- [167:58]
Chris Peters
When you trade for.
- [167:59]
Scott Wheeler
You guys don't know how much time take. Don't get up to the stage. Let's see. Here we go at the stage. What do you got Gary? Give us, give us the good news here, Gary. So this is, this is Ryan Lynn. It's Ryan.
- [168:12]
Max Boltman
Lyn Scott. This is your guy?
- [168:14]
Chris Peters
This is my guy. I, I've stuck my neck out on him a little bit over the course of the season. I think he's going to be an excellent, excellent NHL defenseman. He's competitive, he's mobile. He thinks the game at among the highest levels in this draft class. He's physical for his size. I think he surprised some people with his athleticism at the combine because that maybe that pull away gear he hasn't always had that he's extreme great edges, surfs well, closes out gaps. All of that is a hallmark frankly of Ryan Lane's game. But that sort of pull away straight line gear hasn't been. Then he performs really well in some of the sprints and some of those elements at the combine. Great kid going to the University of Denver a program that has for anybody that's watching, that's unfamiliar, developed a lot of 511 six foot defensemen over the last few years. I think he's on a path to be Denton Matejuk like that. That's the player that I've comped dentin tae chuck went what, 12th, 13th overall. Dentist Matechuk had I think 14 goals in the NHL last year. 30 something points as a 21 year old defenseman while a lot of young D in the league struggle.
- [169:19]
Corey Pronman
He doesn't skate like Matejuk does though.
- [169:21]
Chris Peters
No, he doesn't but he's a. We're talking about a whld in that mold and I think he thinks the game at that level he's competitive. I think he's going to be a future top four defenseman in the league and you rarely get those guys in the 20s.
- [169:33]
Max Boltman
We talked about Denver. One of those smaller defense the Denver has developed is Eric Polkamp. And that is a San Jose Sharks player. What will be interesting this year at Denver is he's going to share that blue line with a very high pick in this draft, the fourth overall pick.
- [169:45]
Corey Pronman
Dax and Rudolph, I would guess they're both on the power play.
- [169:48]
Max Boltman
That, that, like power play one.
- [169:49]
Corey Pronman
Yeah.
- [169:50]
Max Boltman
Who takes a flank and who takes up top?
- [169:52]
Corey Pronman
I. I would guess. I would guess that Rudolph, because he has the shot pro, probably more on the flank. Yeah, that'd be my guess.
- [170:00]
Scott Wheeler
I agree.
- [170:02]
Chris Peters
This is an unbelievable haul for the Sharks.
- [170:04]
Scott Wheeler
It's crazy.
- [170:05]
Chris Peters
Like it's.
- [170:05]
Scott Wheeler
We.
- [170:05]
Corey Pronman
We've already said how I had Lynn at 21 for his worth.
- [170:08]
Scott Wheeler
So I thought, I thought at 20. So Scott had him at 10, he had him at the 21.
- [170:13]
Max Boltman
I do feel robbed. Like if Lynn had really gone like 15, we would have gotten a great Scott and Corey debate on him. One saying too low, one saying too high. Instead Scott saying, you know, bang, home run. But Corey has no problem with it.
- [170:25]
Chris Peters
It's okay to quote. To quote Chris Peters on our podcast earlier this year. Three years from now, I'll be right.
- [170:33]
Scott Wheeler
I love that. Yeah, that is. That is probably. Yeah, one of my better quotes. Thank you for bringing it up, Scott. I appreciate that. Also, there was one about a tape measure time. But either way, that's probably. That's probably the.
- [170:43]
Max Boltman
We should have a tape measure on.
- [170:45]
Scott Wheeler
We should have had one. We should have had one.
- [170:47]
Corey Pronman
But I'm the shortest of the four.
- [170:50]
Chris Peters
Let's.
- [170:50]
Scott Wheeler
Let's just think about now, where are the Sharks holes in their organization, top to bottom.
- [170:57]
Max Boltman
I said earlier that there was only one. It was power play quarterback. Now here's my only question, Corey, and this is where I will come to you, is Lynn that guy? Is he a power play one quarterback?
- [171:06]
Corey Pronman
Not my favorite option, but I think he can do it. Like, I think if him. If it's between him and Verhoff and Dickinson, long term, it's Lynn. Here's the issue is I think Lynn's athletic traits. He's not an elite skater. He's 5 11. I think he's going to have to prove that he's going to be able to play 500 to a thousand NHL games. I think Verhoff's for sure in the lineup. In a year or two, Lynn might need it might need some American League time. So five, six years from now, I think Lynn's got the most offensive talents of the three. I can't guarantee you he's going to be there.
- [171:36]
Max Boltman
I will say one thing that you guys Kind of agree. We do the Promen versus versus Wheeler article every year. And one of the names I threw out was Sean Walker for Lynn and Scott. I think you were like, well, I think that's a good player. He's on the Stanley cup champion. Corey, I think. I don't think you had a problem with that. If he's Sean Walker, that's still a heck of an outcome at the 21st.
- [171:51]
Chris Peters
What if he's Josh Morrissey, but
- [171:54]
Corey Pronman
Morrissey elite skater. Matajo elite skater. This guy's not an elite skater.
- [171:57]
Max Boltman
But that's why I bring up Walker, right. Is I think Walker's a kind of a. Maybe not floor, but that's like a very reasonable projection and that's still a
- [172:04]
Corey Pronman
good asset, I think.
- [172:05]
Max Boltman
I like.
- [172:06]
Corey Pronman
And again, I like the player I like just like I like Sean Walker. Walker's, you know, also like, you know, he was a free agent sign. Like, you know, he was a rare profile where the compete was just so special that he made that level. I think. I think it's really good. Like I had the scouts who love him will say he's a 6162 defender because of how, how hard he competes. Like I said, I just think it's a gamble because sometimes Rasmus Sandin was that profile and it's kind of worked, but not. It's worked, but it's not. Not to the Toronto. Yeah. And not in Toronto. And he's not a premium name by any means. So it's a balance of the risk for me. Like, I, I get it. I think it's a good. Especially with your third pick. Absolutely.
- [172:49]
Chris Peters
Like, and my argument would be that Wynn was way better this year and over the last two years for the Vancouver Giants than Sandin was for the Sue Greyhounds. Like, he was just a more impactful player.
- [173:00]
Corey Pronman
Different Stu Greyhounds at the time, like, that was. That was a ohl. Well, you know, contending team.
- [173:04]
Max Boltman
Well, speaking of the Sue Greyhounds on the clock now is The Pittsburgh Penguins GMs by Kyle Dubas. A year ago, we talked prior to the draft and we were pretty hard on the Penguins farm system. That system looks way different a year later. And part of, you know, that was prior to the Ben Kendall pick. But even a year ago today when we talked about the Penguins draft and we were all shocked that they had taken Ben Kendall at 11. I mean, Ben Kendall was the story of. I mean, you talked about guys who had better year outside the NHL, but Kendall was like the big surprise story.
- [173:34]
Corey Pronman
He slowed down a little bit in the second half, but still just for what he did. Centering the third line for the Penguins was really impressive. The compete, the hockey sense, all very impressive. Our Penguins writer Josh Yeoh thinks they're gonna try and add skill with this pick. We'll see what that skill is. And the skill is Liam Ruck, who absolutely has a lot of skill. You know, one of the leading scorers in the, in the Western League. High end brain, competes really hard. The skating isn't great for a five, eleven and a half guy. Now I never circled the Penguins for the, for the Ruck Twins. I thought of, you know, St. Louis, I thought of Calgary, I thought of Utah in terms of guys, teams that had picks that I know had at least talked about the rucks. So now where is the Penguins next picks and where was the opportunity now potentially to get Marcus? Because I know the mark. The Ruck twins have expressed the teams that they want to play together, that they want, want to be part of the same organization. And I think it is a strong priority.
- [174:24]
Chris Peters
39.
- [174:25]
Max Boltman
So that's in range. You could come up from there too pretty easily.
- [174:30]
Scott Wheeler
I mean, I don't think you have to. I, I like. Because unless somebody wants to jump the line and, and force. Force you to trade for Marcus has
- [174:38]
Corey Pronman
the back question to Max's point earlier. I love that they knew who they were taking. They, they wasted about 10 seconds and they made that pick not, not waiting for, for the whole clock to run out.
- [174:47]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah.
- [174:48]
Corey Pronman
Which to me signals that they had him very high on their list.
- [174:53]
Max Boltman
And so this is where I want to go with this, Scott, because you know these players really well. Marcus was the one who was actually the leading scorer of the whl. But in the lead up to this draft, Liam was the guy who was like, Liam could go first. And we thought Marcus was more likely to go second round. Why is that?
- [175:06]
Chris Peters
When Marcus outscored him, he outscored him by four points. So it's 108 and 104 points.
- [175:11]
Max Boltman
They were the two lead scores in that case then.
- [175:14]
Chris Peters
No, but part of it's that he's the goal scorer. And teams put an emphasis on the ability to get to the inside and be in the guts of the ice and finish off plays. And then the other part of it is that he's a slightly better skater and a little bit more competitive. Ironically enough, Marcus is the center, but they're both viewed as wingers. So I think everybody expects that both of them are going to be wingers in the NHL. Despite the fact that Marcus has Played a lot of center, but he. He's just a smart, crafty player. Goes to the middle of the ice. I think that's the. That's the differentiator.
- [175:46]
Corey Pronman
Now you're looking at a core and the back if they take Marcus with the next pick. You're looking now at the two Rucks and Kindle now as kind of some of your core forwards. But they did at least add small. But at least with Bill Zone and Will Horkoff last year, I don't know if Zon's gonna have a ton of offense next level, maybe a bottom six center. Horkoff could be like a middle six wing. At least there's a little bit more size there with those two other first to complement what's going to be a very small and not really dynamic skating trio of forwards as part of your core young prospects going forward. Rucker McGrorty is not that fast either, even though. I think. Even though he had a great year in the American League.
- [176:18]
Chris Peters
Iq. Iq. Iq, Right. Like that's. That's what the Penguins are prioritizing here. One of. One of. Despite the fact that Marcus is the passer and gets sort of the benefit of the doubt from an IQ standpoint, Liam is one of the smartest players in this class.
- [176:32]
Scott Wheeler
There's a fair amount of rumors that the Penguins were. Were really trying to move up in this draft and trying to see, you know, if they could get, like when you're talking hockey sense, like, there were a lot of people who were wondering if Vigo was going to be the guy, Viggo Bjork, if they would. If they had the ability to move up.
- [176:46]
Corey Pronman
They didn't have the assets, but they didn't.
- [176:48]
Scott Wheeler
You're right, they didn't. So that was always the thing that made it a little bit tougher. But now you're seeing there's a clear profile that they're going for. And this is. This fits that for sure.
- [176:57]
Max Boltman
All right, next up is going to be the next Utah Mammoth pick. And I'm very curious where this goes again. You know, we've seen Utah Mammoth make one pick already. Gleb Pugachev still hanging out there.
- [177:08]
Corey Pronman
I feel like Pugachev. I feel like Rogowski lines up with them. I could see one of those big demon like Mons Goodmanson or William Hawkinson be. Be their type. I mean, you. It's almost kind of hilarious at this point.
- [177:21]
Scott Wheeler
What.
- [177:22]
Corey Pronman
You know, I kind of want to see them draft. Somebody was super small here. Just, just.
- [177:28]
Scott Wheeler
What about Tommy Blythe?
- [177:29]
Corey Pronman
Tommy Blyle.
- [177:31]
Scott Wheeler
Like, like here's the thing though. So like let's look at their organization. Who is the elite puck moving?
- [177:37]
Max Boltman
Their best puck movers are Sergachev and Dersey probably.
- [177:40]
Scott Wheeler
Right.
- [177:40]
Corey Pronman
And Simischev has shown more often than I think people expected him as a pro, but he's probably not like an elite offensive type.
- [177:47]
Scott Wheeler
So. And that's to me because you have built a forest of trees here. A guy like a Tommy Bly could potentially fit in there. Not, I'm not saying that's. He seems against type for me for this team.
- [178:01]
Corey Pronman
It was highly rumored they were very interested in Zane Perek during his draft here. So I think they would, they would explore that kind of player type if it was the right player.
- [178:10]
Scott Wheeler
Right. And there is, there is the. So the thing about Tommy Blau, he's an elite skater, just a tremendous player, good hockey sense and other things. Moves pucks well. But yeah, it's just that are you getting dynamic enough, you know, in terms of that offensive style to pass on the Pugachevs and the others, you know, and Nobotny too for that matter. You know, who's a heavier wing who has good two way capabilities and did still score 30 goals this year in the OHL.
- [178:36]
Corey Pronman
Where did like the elite athlete types go last couple drafts? Nestor Sil, Mason West, Dean letourneau, like late 20s. Like I'm saying that's, that's probably right around what we're talking about. Rogowski, I think like yeah, you're giving some, Gary giving up some offense here but, but when you're six, seven guys who could skate and he's a legit six, seven, two.
- [178:54]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, look at, look at Nestor still's year this year.
- [178:57]
Corey Pronman
He has a special athlete. Letourneau had a good year.
- [179:00]
Chris Peters
Yeah, I do think those guys are better skaters than Ragowski.
- [179:03]
Corey Pronman
Mason west did not have a good year. So you know, yeah, you win, you win some, you lose some. But I feel like this is the around the range we're starting to Talk about Rogowski.
- [179:12]
Max Boltman
D +1 not go according to plan either.
- [179:14]
Corey Pronman
And then points.
- [179:15]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, yeah, two points. One of the best players.
- [179:18]
Corey Pronman
Yeah. So I do like that Rogowski's not going to Michigan State, that he's going back to the OHL next year. So he doesn't get himself into that kind of lateral situation where he's four, where he's fourth line with Michigan State getting 10 points and you're questioning, you're questioning the decision there and questioning the offense. He'll, I don't know if he has much offense, but have an opportunity in Oshawa next year. At least. Maybe get 70 points. Maybe get 80 points. Show that there's at least a little bit of skill there.
- [179:44]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah.
- [179:44]
Max Boltman
I'm glad that the Mammoth are still all wearing matching suits. I wasn't sure if that was.
- [179:47]
Scott Wheeler
Oh, that. Yeah.
- [179:48]
Max Boltman
That's in the decentralized era.
- [179:50]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah.
- [179:50]
Corey Pronman
Are we gonna do that next time?
- [179:52]
Max Boltman
Maybe we should.
- [179:53]
Scott Wheeler
I really don't match the Mammoths.
- [179:57]
Corey Pronman
Get the belt buckle like they did last time. A team belt buckle.
- [180:01]
Max Boltman
I like that. Maybe the chat can tell us what color suits we should wear next year for the project.
- [180:05]
Corey Pronman
I'm not sure that's a good idea.
- [180:08]
Chris Peters
Didn't have a suit for this broadcast.
- [180:10]
Max Boltman
I think wear the suits that Peters
- [180:12]
Corey Pronman
is wearing right now. Oh, yeah, just.
- [180:13]
Max Boltman
That's right.
- [180:14]
Corey Pronman
Little inside hockey. Yes. Scott just had to run out to Nordstrom right before. Right before the show to buy. Yeah.
- [180:20]
Max Boltman
Tell your story about your luggage here.
- [180:21]
Chris Peters
My luggage. I don't know where my luggage is. My luggage is in Toronto. It might be. And they tried to get it to Montreal, which is the opposite direction of Chicago.
- [180:28]
Corey Pronman
There's a trade here.
- [180:29]
Scott Wheeler
Wait, Whoa. Hey. Whoa. Trade. Sorry. Sorry, Scott. The suit story will have to wait for the trade.
- [180:34]
Max Boltman
It's funny because the man was. Staff was all sitting like they had just made a pick. All right, the Red Wings are on. Okay. This is going to be very interesting. I. I'm very curious to see what this ends up being.
- [180:43]
Chris Peters
Wow.
- [180:44]
Corey Pronman
Yeah, I would imagine might change my
- [180:46]
Max Boltman
night just a little bit. It's for Sebastian Kosa. All right, so Sebastian Costa, the goal turn. He was their top goalie. Picked 20, 21. He was the 15th of Replic. They pick him over Jesper Wallstead.
- [180:55]
Corey Pronman
I'm a big Kosa fan and I actually think this is fair value. I was surprised when I heard like second and third round picks being thrown on for Cosa. Like this is more fair value. He's a legit, legit goalie.
- [181:05]
Max Boltman
Pretty good value.
- [181:05]
Chris Peters
Michael Horable a fair value.
- [181:07]
Scott Wheeler
But yeah, they have a better goalie,
- [181:09]
Corey Pronman
but he's three, four years ahead of her.
- [181:11]
Scott Wheeler
Question is. That's true.
- [181:12]
Max Boltman
The question is, are you talking about horrible being the.
- [181:15]
Scott Wheeler
Horrible to me is the better prospect?
- [181:17]
Max Boltman
I think it's close.
- [181:18]
Chris Peters
It's close.
- [181:18]
Scott Wheeler
It is close
- [181:21]
Max Boltman
to be there next year.
- [181:22]
Scott Wheeler
Kosa lost his job. He did for the best team in the ahl.
- [181:26]
Max Boltman
Yes, he did.
- [181:27]
Scott Wheeler
In the playoffs. That is not a good sign to it.
- [181:30]
Chris Peters
That's 24 year old European 3, 23
- [181:32]
Max Boltman
Postov was like half a year older
- [181:34]
Corey Pronman
than the most anime we've gotten by far so far of this show. By the way if not Sebastian Co. Well, hey.
- [181:38]
Max Boltman
No, I. I think there was one right before the last break that.
- [181:41]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah. But. But now. So this is a really intriguing spot but like Max. I mean what. What do they do here? Like we're looking to you because I. I thought. We thought.
- [181:50]
Max Boltman
Well the need is for a top line center.
- [181:52]
Chris Peters
Right.
- [181:52]
Scott Wheeler
Everyone knows what's going on with not.
- [181:54]
Max Boltman
We've discussed it. You're not finding it here at number 23.
- [181:56]
Scott Wheeler
Not going to happen.
- [181:58]
Corey Pronman
So. And. And they've got plenty of middle six centers.
- [182:00]
Max Boltman
They do they Marco Casper, Nate Danielson and if you go on the Rock roster even to Andrew Cop JT Comfor. So it's probably not.
- [182:07]
Chris Peters
And you don't. You don't. After taking Sandy and Pelica you don't need a bile.
- [182:11]
Scott Wheeler
Nope.
- [182:11]
Max Boltman
Probably don't need a puck moving defender there.
- [182:13]
Chris Peters
Do you take a swing on some skill and take JP Hurl.
- [182:16]
Max Boltman
I think you could justify her but I actually think you could justify Hex doll much in the same way that Philly can. Just because it's one more and you hope that somebody outperforms. I also be curious. I think that they really lack those premium athlete types like the Puga.
- [182:28]
Scott Wheeler
Michael Branson.
- [182:29]
Max Boltman
Nero will be probably the closest that they have have.
- [182:31]
Scott Wheeler
Even though. Even though I just you know kind of trashed Kosa as because I. I think that he's done. He's done everything the organization has asked of him. He bided his time. He played in the echl. He went to the ahl. It. It's just one of those examples where it just didn't work out. They found somebody better and now they're moving on. But you know this. Yeah.
- [182:54]
Corey Pronman
For.
- [182:54]
Scott Wheeler
For the. Again he also fits them. Utah is seriously. They are building a forest of trees and they just added a 6 foot 6 goalie.
- [183:02]
Corey Pronman
I think it's just that they prioritize athleticism. It's not the height.
- [183:05]
Scott Wheeler
No, of course. Yeah.
- [183:08]
Corey Pronman
You know they just want elite athletes and I mean whether they're not valuing the hockey skills of something you can debate. But I think coast has got plenty of skill.
- [183:15]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah. And Kosa really should be at this point if he's not yet. You know he should be a number two in the NHL and they need
- [183:20]
Corey Pronman
goalie help and he's going to be on their team team next year.
- [183:22]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah.
- [183:22]
Max Boltman
I will say this about the Pastava Cosa playoff situation. Postava was outstanding. Going into those?
- [183:28]
Scott Wheeler
Oh, absolutely.
- [183:28]
Max Boltman
I think any reasonable person would have looked at those and said postava starts game one. The issue is just that it was every game like they posted and didn't find a game to get it. And I think at the end you could have probably justified it. So we'll see who the Red Wings
- [183:40]
Chris Peters
are going to pick.
- [183:40]
Max Boltman
Right here it's JP Hurlbur. So this is the skill shot, right? And JP Hurlburt leaves the NTDP to go to Kamloops. Ends up the fourth leading scorer in the Western Hockey League league. Scott, what are the Red Wings getting at him?
- [183:51]
Chris Peters
Just a very, very smart player. You talk to Sean Klusten, the head coach in Kamloops, Anybody who's been around him over the last few years. Right place, right time, kid. He's around the puck all the time. He's consistently involved in offense. They gave him a letter there almost immediately after he showed up in Kamloops. Played center, played the wing. I think people view him as a winger long term, but he started, he played the first half of the year and frankly he was actually making more productive as a center in Kamloops this year in the front half than he was as a winger in the second half. But just really, really smart. There are some sort of minor questions about pace and skating. Like it's, I don't, I wouldn't say it's a major concern but it is average and at that size, average is a bit of a question. But skilled and very, very smart.
- [184:35]
Corey Pronman
Yeah, the pace I think is fine. It's nothing special for like a 5, 11, 60 guy. But I think his skating is fine. I think if you're a Red Wings fan though, you're happy that they finally took a shot.
- [184:44]
Scott Wheeler
Yes.
- [184:45]
Corey Pronman
I think it's not a guy who, the first, who the first word coming out of the mouth is skill, scoring, playmaking and not just yes, they finally took a shot on this as opposed to another high compete or two way guy. And I think his compete is good enough too. So yeah, I think, I think Red Wings fans, given the situation you were with cosa, given how much you like Trey Augustine and post of a. I think you gotta like this outcome if you're, if you're Detroit.
- [185:10]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah. My one concern with JP is just there's a lot of junior points there. There's a lot of junior points and he's going to have to find more ways to get to the interior. He does have creativity, he does have skill, he has the ability to do it. That's going to be the challenge as he goes to the University of Michigan this year is hey, hey. You are going to have to fight for your ice time with Michael Hage and all these other high skill players that are in our system that have years of experience. Where do you fit in? You're going to have to get to the middle. You're going to have to do things. And I think we saw that with a guy like Adam Valentini who's eligible for this draft this year. We started to see the motor a bit more. We started to see him make more plays. He got more responsibility. I think JP can grow into that role. But it is going to be a little bit of a longer kind of tail for him. But I'm excited about.
- [185:54]
Chris Peters
He scored 40 goals this year and certainly I think we talked about the WHL being maybe a little watered down in the junior. I think there is truth to the junior points. Nobody was given anything on that Kamloops team. Team like this isn't a kid who was playing forever it or for Prince Albert or for one of the dominant teams in the league. Like he was the guy. He had to do it. He had to do a lot of it himself.
- [186:17]
Max Boltman
The Red Wings best draft find of this era came out of Kamloops. Right? Emmett Finney, the guy they picked in the seventh round in 2023 was probably their best breakout story this year also comes out of Kamloops.
- [186:28]
Corey Pronman
One thing we've talked about is where does he fit in Michigan now with Landon Dupont coming in? Is he going to be on the top powerful unit that where you got to imagine. Imagine Dupont's gonna play where you gotta imagine Michael Hage is going to play a flank where Henry Muse is probably going to play a play on either the point or the flank. Will Horkoff. God, imagine a big body in there somewhere. So is he part of the main offensive weapons there? Of course there's been like these rumors out there that Hage might reconsider going back, you know, or not kind of thing. We'll see. But I think that is. It's not a major question because I think the player is still excellent. But I think you are a little bit worried about the development path these these coming 12 months at least.
- [187:02]
Chris Peters
I there were some people at the combine who were surprised when his weight came up as 190. He was listed at 170, something like 176 or 177 for most of the year with NHL Central Scouting. So at 190 already, despite the fact that he's 6ft. He's not. He's not small.
- [187:18]
Corey Pronman
We've mentioned Novotny a few times. I've heard him with Vancouver. I'm not sure if this is where he goes, but I think that's. That this is where the conversation starts getting real. I think top 20 always seemed rich to me, given this is a 6:1 guy who was like, at a point per game in the OHL last year, but he's an excellent skater. I think mid 20s is where the conversation for Navoni starts getting a little bit more serious.
- [187:36]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah. And I mean, I, I like. He's. He's my top remaining guy left. I, I think that there's. There's a need there, you know, in terms of just getting a little bit harder and heavier, which I think he can be. And I think he's a guy that can play a lot of different roles. There's versatility to his game, like we talked about, like his A game and his versus his B game. His B game is really good, like, and that's. That's something that helps a lot.
- [187:58]
Max Boltman
All right, well, we'll take a quick break right there. We'll come back and we'll see what the canucks do. Number 24. All right, we are back. And as teased right before the break, the Vancouver Canucks do go with Adam Novotny. We heard you guys talk about what Novotny brings, but Corey, let's start here. Vancouver, we talked about it. They're at the beginning of a long process here. What is the state of the Vancouver rebuild?
- [188:19]
Corey Pronman
I think it's at its inception right now. Like, I think, you know, we. We all love Caleb now. He's a great young player. I know the panel here loves Eve boy. I'm like, we all think he's a great young defenseman. I think, you know, they've got some other good young players. Tom Olander is a good young player. And now Adam Novotny is a good. Is a good forward. Could be a middle six, two way guy long term, but I think there's years of pain coming still. Like, you need way more premium. Yeah. Like, there's, you know, the elite offensive tights. You're gonna need another center depending on the future of Pedersen. Obviously, I think the blue line still needs a little bit of work. Like, they're. There's. There's a. There's a lot more to come. I think you're happy with this dig. Malhotra deserved to go where he went. Nootny deserved to go where he went. They're Both good players. They make your system better. But I think we expect Vancouver Canucks to be back here at the top of the, you know, at the top of the draft order for a few years to come.
- [189:07]
Chris Peters
And we talked about them being in Brantford a lot this year. I think the Vancouver Canuck can expect to be at Michigan watching Landon Dupont a lot next year as well.
- [189:16]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah.
- [189:16]
Chris Peters
On Novotny though, like, like just a strong, powerful, like he can. He's only six one, but he, he plays a power game, considers himself a power forward, can rip the puck. Legit speed, like legit speed. The playmaking and the getting his line mates involved and the IQ is maybe the question mark there. But he's gonna, gonna play.
- [189:39]
Max Boltman
If I had a question, I mean, he's a sturdy built kid, Chris. Like, is he, Is he. We talked about it with the, the bigger box bodied players. Is he one who, like, maybe there's a little less Runway on.
- [189:47]
Scott Wheeler
I think that's fair. He's no.
- [189:49]
Chris Peters
7 too.
- [189:49]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah. Yeah, I think, I think that's a fair assumption. You know, the thing is, is I think the floor is pretty high. The other thing that I think about with Adam Novotny, I talked about Caleb Malhotra being a culture builder. I think Adam Novotny has a lot of those same qualities. He is a great personality as a young man. He also has a good work ethic on and off the ice. He has that physical strength. He, he gets into the fight and he'll drag you into the fight with him a little bit. We've seen him stand out in some of these international competitions where he didn't have a lot of help. And so I think that that's a good thing too. So I, I just think the player himself is a really good player to just kind of have as, as part of the. He's not, is he a, he's not a cornerstone piece, but he's a good piece to have. He's a guy that I think you're glad to have.
- [190:30]
Corey Pronman
He's a player who wouldn't they all. If you only watch international games over the last years, you would have said he's a top 12 pick, Tom. Top 15 pick. It's really his club games where he, he didn't show as much offense.
- [190:39]
Scott Wheeler
Right, right.
- [190:40]
Corey Pronman
But I mean, there, there, there were definitely times in this process where he was often discussed as a lottery pick.
- [190:44]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah. And I, I, you know, one game where he really stood out was the OHL Top Prospects game and the, and he was playing in Peterborough and he really Showed out and he gets to the middle. He does the hard work, he battles along the walls, he gets down low. That's a guy that you can really help and I think you will score.
- [191:02]
Chris Peters
And he didn't point at. At the world juniors, but he led that team in shots. I think he actually might have led the tournament in shots on goals.
- [191:08]
Scott Wheeler
I thought he was snake bit in that tournament. Yeah.
- [191:10]
Chris Peters
And they used him in hard minutes. He penalty killed for them. He was out for defensive zone face offs as a draft eligible at the U20 level.
- [191:18]
Max Boltman
Yeah. With the Vancouver Canucks, Chris. And we, you know, we've talked about where they sit in the rebuild and all of this. Like, what are the things that, you know, Ryan Johnson, as the new general manager of this team, you've obviously followed the AHL very closely. I don't know how much of that translates, but what are the big priorities that someone like Ryan Johnson. Johnson sets in their first year with the club?
- [191:34]
Scott Wheeler
Well, I think it started with the hiring of Manny Malhotra. So I think that it's. It's a. They have to start building the culture. And I think that that was the biggest reason that they had Manny Malhotra. He built something down in Abbotsford. Now, the entire team essentially departed after the Calder cup, which was, you know, so they were the last place team in the. In there this. This last year. But still, you saw the building blocks. That championship run meant a lot to that organization. It meant a lot to the fan base and to all those players that were there. So I think that building that championship mentality started a little bit with that Abbotsford Canucks team. But now there's a long way to go. And I think the patient, pragmatic approach that it seems like they are preaching is the way to go. Does the ownership have the patience to match what they're selling right now? That's the question I have, yeah.
- [192:21]
Max Boltman
All right, The Ottawa Senators are on the clock at number 25 here. Another team. And we're. We talked about it with Buffalo, like a team that once you're on the rise, the draft starts to become a little less, you know, splashy.
- [192:32]
Corey Pronman
Much thinner pharmacism, though, than Buffalo. They take Lagerberg hone here.
- [192:36]
Max Boltman
Okay, Corey, this is a really interesting one for you specifically because this is a player who did not play much hockey this season. You were there live to see him play one of the. I think only seven games he played this year.
- [192:45]
Corey Pronman
Yes. Coincidence in that regard. Did not know he was going to tear his knee and be out for the season. But he's a 62633 winger. Really good skater for his size, really good skill and shot. Had 27 goals in the J20 in Sweden the year prior. I actually went there to go. I was to go watch Marcus Nordmark play. I like Lagerberg, but he actually ended up outplaying Nordmark and obviously and then you see how he goes ahead of him. And in the draft today I like the player a lot. I think if he's healthy and consistent, you can see the top six upside there. There's definitely a lot of tools. The lack of sample was a little concerning for me to have gotten him up, you know, to the top 20, top 15 level. But right here, this is a very reasonable gamble and I think Senators fans are going to like that because I feel like a lot of their picks have been big, physical guys, two way guys. I think they like that. They just gambled on a guy who if he hits, he's a 25, 30 goal scoring winger with size and, and there's more room.
- [193:41]
Chris Peters
We just talked about Novotny being filled out. He's got more room. Like just seeing him in person for the very first time. He's an 07, but he's an underdeveloped 07. I wonder whether the knee surgery had played a part in that. Not. Not getting as much time in the gym as some of these other guys in season.
- [193:57]
Corey Pronman
He tested at the combine though.
- [193:58]
Chris Peters
Yeah.
- [193:59]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah.
- [193:59]
Chris Peters
And performed well in testing at the combine.
- [194:01]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah. Now this, this was a. I, I kind of said on, on podcasts some of the things there are going to be guys that go in the first round that I knew that I didn't have on my list. This is the guy that I was talking about. Now. I didn't have a big enough book to feel comfortable. I made a 75 player list. He wasn't on it. It. But you talk to teams and they're. The Senators were not the only team that were high on this player.
- [194:20]
Max Boltman
This is interesting too because there's another kind of Norwegian sniper in this class, Nicholas Aaron Olsen. And he was the one that was maybe more on my radar coming into the year. How do you compare and contrast?
- [194:28]
Corey Pronman
Lagerberg hole three inches taller. So that's one. I think there's a little bit more compete and jam in his game too. I think Aaron Molson probably a little bit more skilled, the shots a little more elite, but you can play on the outside. There's, you know, he's going to be you. He reminds me of Cole Eisenman. A little bit in terms of the way he. He plays his game. I think this guy's got a little bit more translatable training in how he approaches the game.
- [194:49]
Max Boltman
Ottawa, Snyders, too. You talked about kind of that thinner system, and that is an important distinction as they kind of look to reload now. They, they, they get William Eklund using the ninth pick that they got for Brady Tkachuk. But it's a team that necessarily, like, there's going to be a shift in identity. There's going to be kind of a shift in, you know, the look of the Ottawa Senators here. And, you know, I don't know how far away Lagerberg Hone is. Probably at least a couple years, you would think, usually at this range in the draft. But he becomes one of their most important prospects immediately.
- [195:14]
Corey Pronman
Oh, yeah. I mean, after Yakim Chuck, I would say he's their next best prospect right now.
- [195:18]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah. I mean, the thing is, is I'm. I get scared of. Of players that have had, you know, significant injuries at this stage of their career. There's a lot of risk that you're taking on. We've seen a lot of guys that have gone through massive injuries that, you know, didn't play a lot. Some work, some don't. That was another reason for me where I was just, like, I didn't feel confident enough in the sample and also in what I saw from the, you know, just the little bit and then knowing the story, that's where the risk is. And I think if you're Ottawa at this point, you feel like you've got kind of. Some of. You've got some insulation from that. I was kind of surprised that it wasn't Maxim Sokolovsky, because we were just talking about those guys, those big physical guys, was like, hey, why not just get another one of them?
- [195:58]
Chris Peters
A future D pairing of Gabriel Liaison and Maxim Sokolovsky.
- [196:02]
Corey Pronman
All right, who's going to be the next player that Vegas trades away here?
- [196:05]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. This is. This is. That's all it is. I mean, Vegas is.
- [196:09]
Corey Pronman
Well, they might be training the pick here now because they're. The. The clocks have gone.
- [196:14]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah.
- [196:14]
Max Boltman
Would be pretty fitting here.
- [196:16]
Scott Wheeler
I, I think this is. This is their whole M.O. it's. And we talked about it, you know, I think earlier this week where there is a. A lot of teams that are now looking at this Vegas structure saying, do we really need to make all those picks? Should we use them? Like, can we use them?
- [196:32]
Corey Pronman
Tampa's done that a lot.
- [196:34]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, Tampa has. Yeah. Yeah, but I mean, I think. I don't know that anybody has done it.
- [196:37]
Corey Pronman
No.
- [196:38]
Scott Wheeler
As aggressively and as frequently as Vegas. So Florida's been. I'm deferring to the chat. I was like, chat. What you got right now? What you got? Because. Because this is. This is a really interesting thing.
- [196:51]
Max Boltman
And is it.
- [196:52]
Corey Pronman
Isn't that really interesting? It is the 26 pick, whether it gets traded, is it really interesting?
- [196:56]
Scott Wheeler
Well, yeah, of course.
- [196:57]
Chris Peters
Building a franchise.
- [197:01]
Scott Wheeler
Are you interested now, Corey?
- [197:03]
Corey Pronman
Yes.
- [197:03]
Max Boltman
All right, who's coming up? See, we'll see what this is going to be.
- [197:07]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, this is. This is. This is fun.
- [197:09]
Max Boltman
So I just got this pick tonight.
- [197:13]
Corey Pronman
Montreal is coming up now.
- [197:15]
Scott Wheeler
Oh, oh, here come the. Here come the.
- [197:19]
Corey Pronman
So interestingly, they didn't trade their. They didn't swap picks. They still have their next pick. So this was. So they. They traded away the first. I didn't hear what the return was.
- [197:31]
Max Boltman
Now we have no audio in here, so we'll find that out.
- [197:33]
Scott Wheeler
Montreal is moving up two spots. Vegas adding us a third swap.
- [197:37]
Corey Pronman
Okay, it is a swap. So I blame ESPN for not. I didn't get it wrong. ESPN got it wrong. They didn't update it. All right, so how about this?
- [197:43]
Max Boltman
So Vegas gets beat by Carolina in the cup final. They take a page out of the Carolina Hurricanes book. They trade back and get more picks. Maybe they're seeing a new third round
- [197:51]
Corey Pronman
pick to go back two spots. It's not too shabby.
- [197:53]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, Yeah, a little bit. A little bit. So let's see now. Now, let's see what? Now I am excited. Corey, why are you. Why aren't you excited?
- [198:02]
Corey Pronman
I'll be interesting to see what they do here and what. And why they felt like they needed to leapfrog Philly to get there.
- [198:08]
Scott Wheeler
Right? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So.
- [198:10]
Max Boltman
So is that the center, right?
- [198:12]
Corey Pronman
I think I've heard Hextall. I've heard Tommy Bly with Philly a lot, too. So that would be one that Blyle
- [198:20]
Max Boltman
on a team that has Hudson.
- [198:21]
Corey Pronman
I feel like people think that Blyle can be. Be a little bit more than just an offense guy because the skating is so good that there's a little bit more there. But I get your concern, too.
- [198:32]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah.
- [198:33]
Corey Pronman
Time will tell. We'll see. We'll see what happens here in the next couple of minutes. But yeah, they obviously felt their information is that Philly was. Philly was going to take their player or there was a player they were just so passionate about that they had to come and get it.
- [198:47]
Max Boltman
How do you think a team Gets that vibe, though. Like, I mean, these are. Teams aren't sharing their list with each other.
- [198:51]
Corey Pronman
No, it's. I mean, it's the same thing when we're doing mock drafts. You talk to coaches, you talk to agents, you talk to the players. You, you, you scout the scout, you're seeing who's at the rinks kind of thing.
- [199:02]
Scott Wheeler
I've said for many years that scouting is as much reporting, it's attendance taking. Yeah. When they, They're. They're asking us all the time. They're asking agents. Like, it's. Yeah. I mean, that's the thing is that.
- [199:14]
Max Boltman
Oh, no, I'm even talking about.
- [199:16]
Corey Pronman
About. And in terms of how useful it is, we'll just look at our mock drafts tonight and you can see how useful a practice that is in terms of getting information.
- [199:22]
Max Boltman
But I think what my point about the attendance taking, it becomes a very real part of, like when you go to a rink and you're seeing, okay, who else is here for this player? If you see an executive, it's a big time.
- [199:31]
Corey Pronman
I think late in the year, playoffs, the spring, that's when the AGMs and the GM start getting out and teams know what range they're in. Like in September, October is not really relevant. Everyone's got to see all the priority guys. Guys. But that, like, if I pop into a rink in March or April and I see a GM there, I'm like,
- [199:48]
Max Boltman
okay, like, well, in which rink matters to everybody goes to Plymouth. Right. Like, if you're at an NTDP rink, all that means is you work in the NHL.
- [199:55]
Scott Wheeler
Right.
- [199:55]
Max Boltman
But there's certain ranks where you're like, all right, what are you doing in North Bay here?
- [199:58]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah.
- [199:59]
Corey Pronman
Like. Like when I mocked, let's say, Dylan Holloway to the Oilers, for example, I went to a game in the spring there. I saw Ken Holland there when he.
- [200:07]
Max Boltman
I was like. And he was in the aj, Right?
- [200:09]
Corey Pronman
No, that's when he was without University of Wisconsin. I Just an example kind of thing. You're like, oh, okay. They're. He's on the short list, I think, because I, I was looking like, when was the last time. I think he was with Edmonton. You know, he's at the time. When's that time Edmonton played near Ohio and it was not anywhere close to that kind of thing. So that's just a little bit of the, of the inside hockey. I don't know how much of our listeners really care about that stuff.
- [200:31]
Scott Wheeler
I think they care a great deal. Right. Chat. You tell us in the chat.
- [200:35]
Corey Pronman
I'm not reading the chat.
- [200:36]
Scott Wheeler
I think I'm reading the chat.
- [200:38]
Chris Peters
Peters is activated. Engaged.
- [200:39]
Max Boltman
They're definitely going to care a great deal about the Montreal.
- [200:44]
Scott Wheeler
Corey.
- [200:45]
Corey Pronman
This is a player you just got
- [200:46]
Max Boltman
some facetime with at a camp in Florida.
- [200:49]
Corey Pronman
Yeah, no, he was. I think he's the best power forward in the draft. He's six, three. He hits like a bull. He had. He's had two really good playoffs now with. With the. With the Torpedo MHL team. He played well versus men, the VHL and khl. You know, Nick Bobarov, their head coach, is one of the few guys who goes over to the other there to watch these Russian players live. Yeah, he's their head scout. Great pick. Honestly, like, he's a top six winger for me and he's had luck with Russia. He's only here because he's only on 26 because he's Russian. But like, I think he's in, like you look at, you know, where Chernyshev was at the same age. Like, he's a comparable, like, comparable player in terms of player value. Different player types. Chernischev had more skill. This guy's more physical. I think of more Lawson Krause when I watch him. But, like, that's the profile. I really like this pick from Montreal. And hear that Montreal fans. I like this pick from Montreal.
- [201:43]
Max Boltman
They've had luck with Russians, though. I mean, obviously Demidov's like the big one, but Alexander Zurovsky, huge success story recently.
- [201:49]
Corey Pronman
Yeah, they've been killing it.
- [201:50]
Chris Peters
Well, I am lower on the offense. Like, I'm not convinced we're talking about a top six player here. I do wonder a little bit about the offense. Guys who produce under a point per game in the NHL don't typically become that. But he did show. He showed really, really well against pros this year. I thought he was better against pros than he was with junior players. And that speaks to the physical profile and the makeup and the way he skates and how strong he is.
- [202:15]
Corey Pronman
I think he's at the same point as where Igor Stern was when he went into the draft. Stern's a little bit more skill. He's a center. This guy's a little taller, he's a wing. But Sirin now has been become a premium young player in the cage with the same type of play style. You know, that's kind of what I view Pugachev as. I think when he gets to play full time versus men, I think the value in his game is going to come out.
- [202:37]
Max Boltman
All right, now the Flyers are on the clock. I mean, do we think. I mean, was Pugachev one of the landing spots you saw for.
- [202:42]
Corey Pronman
For Philly? No, I think that's just Montreal wanted to be sure.
- [202:46]
Max Boltman
Maybe. Maybe Vegas.
- [202:47]
Corey Pronman
Vegas take Vegas takes Russians. So I think that was a concern. And Philly did take all Russian and macho, so maybe they were concerned. I think that's just Montreal being so passionate about a player that they just didn't care about the third round pick a year from now kind of thing. Yeah, go get a guy we think is a premium asset.
- [203:04]
Chris Peters
I'm gonna go back to Sokolovsky. I think it's. I think it might be Sokolovsky.
- [203:08]
Corey Pronman
I'm gonna say Tommy Blyle here. One defenseman, one's a just two slightly different play styles.
- [203:13]
Chris Peters
I've heard. Yeah, I've heard they look.
- [203:16]
Corey Pronman
One has 90 points, one had four points or whatever he had kind of thing.
- [203:22]
Scott Wheeler
Let's bring another hex doll to fill. Different. Different family, no relationship. I just wanted to be different, that's all. So right now Tommy Blyle is the best player available on my personal list. But hex doll is. Is right in that mix. So. Yeah.
- [203:38]
Corey Pronman
I will say one thing about Bly, and people are going to squirm when I say this because they're going to think this is stupid, but it's. It's somewhat relevant in the NHL. So Blyle initially was measured around 5, 10 and 3 quarters at the start of the season.
- [203:50]
Scott Wheeler
Yes. Yes.
- [203:52]
Corey Pronman
He gets remeasured in the middle of the season. I think Central said on a note saying he was 6, 0 when he was measured in the middle 5, 11 and 3 quarters. Yeah. Then at the combine, he comes in closer to 511. So it moves from a six to a five, which is like a. Literally a half an inch. It doesn't seem like it's that big a deal, but I think we're trying to sell your GM on a 6. 0 defenseman versus a 511 defenseman. It could be there between 20 and 30. 30.
- [204:17]
Scott Wheeler
I. I can't remember what. What session was. Was Tommy Bly in at the. At the comic?
- [204:22]
Corey Pronman
Oh, God, no. Don't tell me.
- [204:23]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah.
- [204:25]
Chris Peters
Where was the moon?
- [204:26]
Corey Pronman
Yeah, it was like. It was like middle of the process.
- [204:29]
Scott Wheeler
Middle of the process. So you know if he was measured. Yes, exactly. You measure. You measure in. And all of a sudden. So.
- [204:36]
Max Boltman
All right, so the Philadelphia Flyers are making their pick right now.
- [204:40]
Corey Pronman
Great call.
- [204:41]
Max Boltman
You're very familiar with this player from London.
- [204:43]
Chris Peters
Yeah, just a. A mutant, frankly. And maybe that's a. Maybe that's an offensive thing to say about a teenager, but that's. That's kind of how they describe him. Like, he is just a physical specimen. And we. We've seen him demolish guys. It comes very naturally to him. He was a part of my survey this year.
- [205:01]
Corey Pronman
His whole family, right?
- [205:02]
Chris Peters
It comes very naturally. Like, he enjoys that part of the game. He can skate for his. His size. It was very, very hard the front half of the year. I remember, I. Just a couple of weeks ago, I was at the OHL draft, pulled Rob Simpson, who's their longtime associate general manager, just because I was curious coming out of the combine at how much I'd heard about Sokolovsky. Pulled him and said, look like what changed front half of the season to the second half of the season in his play? And he said, that's a question that NHL scouts have asked me. And my answer has been is that he. He was a fish out of water early on. Not from a physical standpoint, from a pure culture standpoint. He used a translator at the combine in all of his interviews that he told me their coaches would yell D to D when he was on the ice, and he didn't know what D to D meant. Like, that's how harsh it was for him. Just did not speak the language, did not know the game. But it's. He's. He's just a big, strong kid. And we mentioned Zadorov, we mentioned. And Stanley, like, that's. That's what you're hoping to get here.
- [206:02]
Max Boltman
Chris is looking at the highlights, laughing at some of the.
- [206:05]
Scott Wheeler
Well, you know, the, The. The thing that I thought was. Was so interesting about him was. Was the way that scout started talking about him after the playoffs and just feeling like this is a guy that plays a style that works at that time of year. And yes, it's in junior hockey, and it's a different thing, but it is a grind in. In the OHL playoffs. And. And the thing is, is that they. They saw a guy that was playing a style that really resonated with them for that. And so that's. That's big, too. He's way lower on my list. There are definitely some things that, That I think you, you know, I'd love to see cleaned up. And I think there's a lot of things to be nervous about. I mean, you know, 27.
- [206:44]
Corey Pronman
I mean, the devil's advocate here is
- [206:46]
Scott Wheeler
not as big a risk.
- [206:47]
Chris Peters
He was 70 on mine.
- [206:49]
Corey Pronman
Same with me. The devil's advocate argument for the people who really like him, as they would say. And I hate this argument, throw out the first half. Just focus on the second half and his playoffs, where he was moving the puck a little bit better, where he was making a few more plays. He was really raw, was developing. You know, he's. He was a late. He's a late bloomer. And I don't like throwing out data. I feel like that's. That's bad practice. But that's the argument that if you watch him in the playoffs, you watch him in the last month or two, the regular season, he looked like the player deserving to go in this range and he would have more offense if he would have played all the way all year.
- [207:21]
Max Boltman
Don't throw out the data. Just add in the data of what Scott said off the top here. Right. Of what the transition was like. That would be the case for it. It's not. You're not throwing out that data. You're adding context to it from. From the other stuff that you know about the player.
- [207:33]
Chris Peters
And he wasn't even a highly recruited player into the ohl. He told a story to teams at the combine about the Hunters going down to see him and basically saying, we want you to come to London and we'll figure it out. Like, this was an incredibly, incredibly raw player.
- [207:48]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah. So the thing that I wonder about is ultimately, without the puck play, there's probably a very limited chance that he's a top four defenseman in this league.
- [207:58]
Chris Peters
Yes.
- [207:59]
Corey Pronman
And Lamour went right about. He didn't go 23. He went right around this range.
- [208:02]
Chris Peters
That's.
- [208:02]
Corey Pronman
That's what you do. He's a freak athlete. He's really physical. There's no offense. I don't care what people say. There's no.
- [208:09]
Scott Wheeler
None.
- [208:10]
Corey Pronman
There's no offense.
- [208:10]
Scott Wheeler
None.
- [208:11]
Corey Pronman
But. There's. But. But Lamar, two years later, was one of Canada's best players at the World Juniors. So if he keeps developing over the next year or two, maybe you are getting someone you're super excited about, could be a top four defenseman. He's. We're not there.
- [208:25]
Chris Peters
Lamoru might not even be a top four defenseman.
- [208:27]
Max Boltman
He may not be.
- [208:27]
Corey Pronman
He's taking a little step back. I still like him a lot. I still think he's a good player. Maybe he's Kevin Ball. Maybe this is Kevin Ball. But that's. That's the dice roll.
- [208:35]
Chris Peters
Yep.
- [208:35]
Max Boltman
And this is a spot in the draft where you're pretty willing to take.
- [208:38]
Scott Wheeler
I mean, we're. We are.
- [208:39]
Max Boltman
We talk about first round Picks, like, they're all kind of crazy, but once
- [208:42]
Corey Pronman
you get past 20, it's. It's a different draft.
- [208:45]
Scott Wheeler
I've said that. I think, like, really, you know, probably right now you're. You're thinking about guys that maybe would be in the 50s on one of our lists or 60s. And like, we just saw with Sokolovsky, who's even lower than that. It's all about, at this point, making sure that you're getting the player that you're most enamored with. And, and, you know, I think if you're, if you're the Flyers, you're feeling very confident about where. Where things have kind of gone in your system already where you can take those swings.
- [209:12]
Corey Pronman
All right, fun, fun trivia.
- [209:14]
Chris Peters
We're at.
- [209:14]
Corey Pronman
We're at 28 right now. Carolina's 31. Do they make the pick or do they trade down?
- [209:20]
Max Boltman
I. I told. I said on the podcast, there's no chance they're making that pick. They're trading down. They. Because not only is Carolina, they trade down a lot, but they also just don't have picks in rounds two, three, four this year. If they can pick up darts there, they've shown us that that's how they want to do this.
- [209:34]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, I mean, I, I'd also wouldn't mind, like, a break after winning the Stanley Cup. Let's just make the pick. Just make the pick.
- [209:42]
Max Boltman
Make the pick and have a late start tomorrow.
- [209:44]
Scott Wheeler
Make the pick and. Yeah, but I mean, like, you think about the, the different players that they've. They've. They've drafted or, or signed or brought in, and, man, I mean, you, like Jackson Blake is going to be one of those great stories, you know, for them for. For. For a long time. And. Yeah, so we'll see. There's gonna be some intrigue. There's some intrigue here. I, you know, just in terms of a, you know, best available, like Corey.
- [210:05]
Chris Peters
Who's.
- [210:06]
Scott Wheeler
Who's. Who's your best available at this point
- [210:07]
Corey Pronman
with guys we've talked about a lot. Casey Moutrin, Jack Hextall, Brooks Rogowski, Adam Goliar, and then the two Swedish defensemen, Goodmanson and Hawkinson. Everybody else in my top 28 that's basically gone by now. I'm looking at. I have my list right now, and everyone else is gone at this point. So that.
- [210:26]
Max Boltman
That clock hit zero. There's no pick is in graphic.
- [210:29]
Corey Pronman
All right, here we go. Here we go again.
- [210:30]
Chris Peters
Who's coming up? Gary.
- [210:34]
Scott Wheeler
And the trailer, is this for a
- [210:36]
Max Boltman
player or a Pick. What do you think?
- [210:37]
Scott Wheeler
I, I have no idea at this point. I think that Kelly's just having fun with us. Now what I. This is Anaheim. Anaheim's on the dot.
- [210:47]
Max Boltman
Weren't they up next? So they trade up one spot?
- [210:50]
Corey Pronman
I think. No.
- [210:50]
Max Boltman
Yeah.
- [210:51]
Corey Pronman
I, Were they up next or were
- [210:52]
Max Boltman
they 30 right there, 29.
- [210:54]
Corey Pronman
Okay.
- [210:55]
Max Boltman
And now let's switch to Vegas.
- [210:56]
Corey Pronman
So Vegas people are really worried about Vegas taking their players. Montreal's been worried about Vegas taking their player. Now Anaheim's like, what are we. They got someone that, they got someone that were really scared they were going
- [211:05]
Max Boltman
to take 29 and 1 7.
- [211:07]
Scott Wheeler
So they just traded Olen Zellweger, right?
- [211:10]
Max Boltman
Yep.
- [211:11]
Corey Pronman
Bly BL doesn't seem like a Verbeek type, but I think, I think the
- [211:17]
Chris Peters
skating would the Ducks have taken a ton.
- [211:20]
Corey Pronman
He's a better skater than Zellweger was.
- [211:22]
Scott Wheeler
Yep.
- [211:23]
Corey Pronman
So that is the argument there.
- [211:25]
Max Boltman
They took Klepov earlier. You could argue that Marcus Nord Mark is in a similar tear off skill.
- [211:30]
Corey Pronman
I can't see them doing two of those guys in the same.
- [211:32]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, I, I, I have a hard time seeing it.
- [211:34]
Max Boltman
So then you've got Casey Mutren Corio player you've been really high on. Top 15 on your list.
- [211:38]
Corey Pronman
Yeah, yeah. So, and you know, I think this is around the range where he, where he starts to get talked about. I think the offense is a minor question, but I think when you're saying 6:3 and you're that, that fast, that physical, I think, you know, I know his scoring hasn't been prolific, his hockey sense is a minor issue. But he still was top power play guy at the program. Guy who scored a lot as an underage, didn't have a great draft season. But we, and we've seen guys drop for those reasons kind of thing. But it's, I think he's a guy I believe in the long term projection of and I think he's one of their, he's someone who would fit their type. But we'll see whether what direction they decide to go down with with this book.
- [212:10]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, I mean there's a lot of different ways that can go. There's still really good value, I feel like throughout the board. You know, there's, there's all those guys. It's, it all comes down. These are the picks where it is completely feel it is completely fit. It's completely, you know, you've made your list, you have your guys. Maybe there's somebody there that you didn't expect to be there that might Change the dynamic a little bit. But now we're just at this, at the range of the draft where you know, honestly you're just hoping you get an NHL player. And I think that they've, they've got a good chance here.
- [212:41]
Max Boltman
All right, so the pick is in. Gary Bettman coming back to the stage for Anaheim.
- [212:45]
Scott Wheeler
Let's make it quick, Gary.
- [212:50]
Chris Peters
He's got to announce a trade.
- [212:51]
Scott Wheeler
Marcus.
- [212:52]
Max Boltman
Marcus Nordmark. Skill, guys.
- [212:54]
Scott Wheeler
Wow.
- [212:54]
Corey Pronman
It's a big investment in skill there by Anaheim in this, in this draft. And Normark's really, really talented. 62 guy with high end hands. He can skate, he can make plays. But I think, think when you talked about compete issues, he was probably one of the top players where that, yeah. Where that came up the most. But there were NHL scouts I talked throughout the year who had him as a top 10 guy in this draft, top 12 guy who said like this is, this is one of the most prolific talents pro. You know, he's got all the tools and he had, he was productive too this year, I think just he had a really bad U18 World Championships and it rubbed a lot of people the wrong way with some of, some of the bad penalties. He took the bad back.
- [213:38]
Scott Wheeler
I almost took him off the list entirely.
- [213:40]
Corey Pronman
Yeah, I obviously now this is, this is a dice roll here.
- [213:44]
Chris Peters
Didn't interview well at the combine too.
- [213:46]
Corey Pronman
Yes. You know, but like I said, if, if he overcomes that stuff then you know, I said he's. He's got all the physical traits, all the skill to be, you know, a middle top six winger in the National Hockey League.
- [214:00]
Chris Peters
I spoke with four or five members of the Garden staff when I did my feature on Nordmark earlier this year about him and they said, said this is a team that had Anton Frindell, Viggo Bjork. You go down the list. They said he's as skip from a pure skill standpoint. He's as skilled as those guys were at the same age. It's just the consistency, the habits. You even hear terms like selfish tossed around. Like that's, that's the, the danger here. There's some risk here. You asked who best players he was despite those concerns and I share those concerns turns he was still my bk.
- [214:33]
Max Boltman
And maybe there's a similar logic what we talked about earlier where if you're going to take two of these guys.
- [214:36]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah.
- [214:36]
Max Boltman
You don't expect both of him and Klepov are going to hit, but you only really need one of them to hit to bring that.
- [214:41]
Scott Wheeler
I mean you better hope it's the one you took way earlier.
- [214:44]
Corey Pronman
This obviously feels like a. Patrick Peak told us, guys, we gotta. We're at. We're adding some offense here. We're adding some skill in this draft. One story about normar from the U18s is, you know, the gold medal game. I think it was a one goal game at the time, Scott.
- [214:59]
Chris Peters
Yeah.
- [214:59]
Corey Pronman
And it was the middle of the second period. They were up on Slovakia by one. And he takes one of the Slovakia defender sticks and he just chucks it into the stance and Slovakia it gets. And they get a 5 plus 10 from that. He gets tossed out of the game. And you're watching that and you're just shaking your head because he was. Been one of their best players and he's a great, He's a great offensive player. They were, you know, you thought like that could turn the tide of the game. Almost didn't. They won the gold medal. But he's got to cut, you know, some of the crap like that out of his.
- [215:28]
Chris Peters
He got a penalty.
- [215:29]
Scott Wheeler
He sounds like a golden knight the way you're just. Why do they, why they trade away from him?
- [215:34]
Chris Peters
He got a penalty earlier in the tournament for snowing. My favorite one, just that bad body language on the bench and.
- [215:41]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, like the things that he does on the ice. He's extremely raging at times.
- [215:46]
Chris Peters
Extremely talented.
- [215:47]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, extremely talented.
- [215:48]
Corey Pronman
I mean I heard the Swedish coach like yelling at him on the ice. Play harder. Go, go.
- [215:54]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, it's just to me, like, yeah, you are, you are completely betting on skill and you're saying you hope that, you know, the maturity comes because that is really it. Like that's, that, that's the thing.
- [216:03]
Corey Pronman
Anaheim has so much young talent though, especially on the floor.
- [216:05]
Max Boltman
Oh yeah, yeah.
- [216:06]
Scott Wheeler
They're a team like they're well insulated to take this pick, like that's the thing. It's just. But like he is a guy for me that I just, you know, he, he's pretty low on my list and you know, I just. It's not, it's not a player that I would.
- [216:18]
Corey Pronman
Vegas actually didn't make the pick this time.
- [216:20]
Chris Peters
All right, third time's the charm.
- [216:22]
Scott Wheeler
They're going to trade them.
- [216:24]
Corey Pronman
Yes. So the next deadline acquisition is Juho
- [216:29]
Max Boltman
Pippa Ryan, the right shot defenseman out of Finland. Chris.
- [216:33]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah. So Pippa Rhinen, you know, good, good size. Mobile enough, you know, really mobile. Got. Has. Has the ability to move pucks. I think there were times this year where I think you see the athletic profile, you just want more from him. You Know, I think that that's one thing, but there is clear tools there. I think, you know, the fact that he's a right shot, the fact that he's got all the, these, you know, that, that ability to move pucks, there's just not a lot, you know, as we mentioned, like puck moving great, solid puck moving defenseman. I think he'll do, do fine with that. Defending's fine. Like it's not, you know, he's, he's, he's just, you know, kind of open vanilla.
- [217:06]
Chris Peters
Vanilla.
- [217:07]
Corey Pronman
A lot of boxes. He's a, he has some offense. Like you seen him running the power play international. He does okay at it.
- [217:13]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah.
- [217:13]
Corey Pronman
You know, got sent down to the J20 level. He didn't point it at a huge level there at the, in the Finnish junior level. But, but he's a world junior defenseman for Team Finland. Like, he's competitive, he's mobile, he can make stops, he can kill penalties. I think he's an NHL defenseman. I think he plays. Is he going to be like a prolific NHL defenseman? I don't see the high end upside there, but he's a good player. He's very athletic. Like, I mean he's, this was his range.
- [217:37]
Chris Peters
Yep.
- [217:37]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah. Yeah, it's totally fair. He was a guy I had just outside of my first round. So. Yeah, so I mean I think that that's, that's going to be. Be a player that, you know, Vegas is probably not going to need for a bit. Probably can use him in a trade down the road. That's the other thing is the right shot, six foot two right shot defenseman is going to carry some value with teams as he continues.
- [217:57]
Chris Peters
His high watermark was also coming out of Helinka. Like there was a time where he was viewed as like a big teens, a teens guy. Maybe a top 10 guy. Like that was the, the conversation early in the season.
- [218:08]
Max Boltman
All right, well, as the Calgary Flames go on the pick on the clock. Sorry. At number 30. We'll take, take our last break of the night here right before pick 30. Be right back. All right, we are back. Calgary Flames pick is in. So we will get to that in just one second. But before we do, Corey, I just want to ask your biggest. What, what's the biggest thing you're going to be thinking about as we leave the studio tonight?
- [218:28]
Corey Pronman
I think we had a lot of conversations throughout the draft about this defense class. We all talked about all, all year about how close this group of players were to the top 10, the how you could put these guys in any order. And, and yet I think when somebody went out of order, we were a little surprised. And that would have been Dax and Rudolph. I don't think we ever really had a serious conversation about him as the top defenseman in this draft. We had conversations about Verhoff, about Smith, about Chase Reed, about Carson, Carl, but we never really had a substantive conversation about whether Dax and Rudolph will be the first defenseman. I think that's one where tonight and tomorrow morning I'm definitely going to go over my notes and, and review what I thought about Rudolph to see whether I missed anything. Not saying I would change anything just because something went I didn't expect. But that was one that even though I knew it was a possible outcome, it went contrary to what I saw on the ice. So I've got to maybe reevaluate that one.
- [219:24]
Max Boltman
Scott, how about you?
- [219:25]
Chris Peters
The Sharks I think have just perfectly executed this rebuild and I think if Mike Greer and company play their cards right over the next few years, I think they've come got like a potential future Stanley cup team.
- [219:37]
Max Boltman
Chris, we'll put a pin in yours. We'll come to it because the Flames have made their pick and it is Jack Hextall. Corey.
- [219:42]
Corey Pronman
Yeah, and Hextall was one of the very best centers in the USHL last season. You know, Chris talked about how Nikita Klepov, who went nearly 12 picks higher than this, was one of the leading reasons why the US won their won the Hlinka Gretzky. I would argue Hextall was big, was better than Klepov in that playing all situations, playing, you know, the matchup minutes down the middle and that's kind of what he is, is he's not, you know, you look at his point totals, they're good, they're not great. But there is offense there. He's a competitive player. He's a two way centerman. I think he has the tools to become a legitimate, you know, third line center in the NHL.
- [220:18]
Max Boltman
Well, and for Calgary, that might be all they need him to be right. Calgary has needed talent injections. They had Cole Reschni. I think you're probably hoping he's like a second line, whether it's a center or a win wing. If Jack Hextall comes out to be a third line center at the 30th pick for the Flames, this is a really good outcome.
- [220:32]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, absolutely it is. And I mean, I think, you know, you look at the ushl, it is still a really difficult league to score and he was Near a point per game player. He was a talented player last year at 16. So, you know, I really like the way that he's developed, you know, and Youngstown can feel really happy about the way that they've developed this player. The fact that it's another Michigan State guy, it's another opportunity for them to continue to build. And I think he's going to play down the their lineup, what, next year, Scott. So, like, he's, he's going to be right there in, in the mix and, and, and playing at a pretty important level. I think there's maturity in his game, there's versatility in his game. And when you're at 30, what do we talk about? We said you need to find NHL players. I think this guy's got an NHL future.
- [221:12]
Chris Peters
He'll, he, he'll start down that lineup, too. Like, this is going to be like, if he has 15 points, 12, 13, 14, 15 points next year, don't be surprised. Like, this isn't going to be, going to be a kid who's necessarily going to point in college hockey next year.
- [221:26]
Corey Pronman
Like, kind of what Eric Nielsen was from them last year.
- [221:29]
Chris Peters
But he's up and under sticks, he's strong on pucks, he'll be detail oriented. And I think by the time he's a upperclassman, by the time he's a junior, you're, you're expecting him to be an impact player in the, in college hockey.
- [221:42]
Max Boltman
All right, Chris, sorry I made you wait here. What's the one thing you'll be thinking about as you leave the studio tonight? I'll let you use anything from the first 30 picks.
- [221:48]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, I mean, I think honestly, this draft kind of lived up to our expectation of the little bit of uncertainty, the jumble, as Corey mentioned. But it goes with guys like Belchert's falling a bit further than we thought. Guys like, you know, Nootany maybe going even lower compared to where he was kind of mid season. Like, this has been a year where, you know, it feels like it thins out faster and teams were making decisions all over the map. Like, and the fact is, is that that consensus is really a myth. Typically, you know, like, there's what's public, there's what's. And, and that this draft continues to show that with a Dax and Rudolph going, you know, as high as he did with an Akita Klepov going in that range to, you know, to that. And also we've had all these different trades, too. A lot of pick movement, guys that were moved, roster Players that were moved. So it seems that finally we talked about it for years. There's going to be trades. There's going to be. There have finally been trades and it's been all week. It'll continue to go after the draft and then it gives us a really nice prelude to free agency.
- [222:50]
Corey Pronman
The other thing that really stood out to me is I thought. And talking, talking to NHL people, I thought there was a really good chance that Tyler Lawrence was going to have a tough night. People are really, really critical of how he looked in the second half at the U18s. I talked to teams. They didn't have him like as a
- [223:04]
Max Boltman
first rounder at the combine too. Right. I mean, that was a storyline coming out. Is maybe he didn't interview as well.
- [223:09]
Corey Pronman
Yeah, no. Like he had. He always asked some hard questions about his draft and he still goes to number 11. And he went number 11 because, for the reasons that Chris said earlier, this is a guy who did some really unique things in junior hockey. You know, maybe made a bad decision to go to college that early, but it'll be a really fascinating to see what he does next year at BU if he bounces back and becomes a premier player again. So that was one of the more fascinating ones. You know, everyone I was talking to in the lead up thought he was going to slide and didn't slide at all. I think he went exactly where he deserved to go.
- [223:40]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, yeah, I agree. And I.
- [223:41]
Chris Peters
And where Scott mocked him.
- [223:42]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, yeah, he had to get that in wheels. But I. I think, like with Tyne Lawrence in particular, he made a decision that impacted his draft stock. I do think it sets him up better for next year. That's the thing is getting that taste of college hockey in the same way. When we've seen guys come in at the end of the NHL, they get a little bit of taste now they know what they're getting into to. He has a summer to prepare for that. And that's why I think that potentially he could play ahead of Caleb Malhotra in the early goings of the season.
- [224:13]
Max Boltman
That's one of the things that for all these kids, I mean, and for. For Ty and Lawrence, it was going from the USHL to NCAA mid season, but I think it applies to the chl, NCA kids too.
- [224:22]
Scott Wheeler
Oh, yeah.
- [224:22]
Max Boltman
There's what's best for you in your draft year and in your stock. And you can argue that both ways. I'm pretty open to both sides of that argument. But I do think playing, like when you advance a level, you do something Positive for your development. Development.
- [224:32]
Corey Pronman
Yeah.
- [224:33]
Scott Wheeler
And Keaton Verhoff can say that and McKenna can say that. Adam Valentini, who's going to go tomorrow, probably can say that. So, you know, like that's, there's, there's a lot of different things. But the thing is, it is a hard level.
- [224:44]
Max Boltman
Yeah.
- [224:44]
Scott Wheeler
And, but, but Corey said something on one of the podcasts recently that I thought was astute is that it does give us better information.
- [224:50]
Max Boltman
Yeah.
- [224:51]
Scott Wheeler
It gives us a better sample of where they're at right now. Because Keaton Verhoff probably could have had 80 points in the dub last year.
- [224:57]
Corey Pronman
Yeah.
- [224:58]
Scott Wheeler
You know, so leagues, I mean, you
- [225:00]
Max Boltman
could, you can be a great player coming off out of any of those.
- [225:02]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah.
- [225:02]
Max Boltman
The CHL is, the ncaa, the ushl. You can be a great player coming out of a league. I didn't mention there. Right, right. But there's all these different paths and these are the factors you're weighing in.
- [225:10]
Chris Peters
I had scouts say the same thing about Tynan Lawrence, too. If he's in the queue this year. And the queue was an option for Tynan.
- [225:14]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
- [225:15]
Chris Peters
If he's in the queue this year, he's a 90 point player in that league.
- [225:18]
Corey Pronman
So here's the thing. If they hurt their draft stock, other than their egos being hurt, it doesn't really materially change anything.
- [225:24]
Chris Peters
No, it does not matter.
- [225:26]
Corey Pronman
There used to be a time, time and place where there were slot bonuses tied to where you were drafted and you actually, there was actually a clear financial impact whether you went 1 or 5 or 10 or 20. But nowadays, other than. Yes, if you're a top five pick versus 25, the team's going to look on you more favorably when it comes to opportunity. But if you go five, if you go Lawrence, if you go 11 instead of going six, doesn't really change that much for your future other than you hope you just. You learned and developed the right things. One things when you were struggling. Yeah.
- [225:54]
Max Boltman
And you go to a, you go to a team that's probably, you know, I mean, statistically, depending on draft, picks move around, but usually you get picked later, you're going to a better team.
- [226:02]
Corey Pronman
It does look like Carolina's trading the pick, by the way.
- [226:05]
Max Boltman
Imagine that.
- [226:07]
Scott Wheeler
But you heard it here.
- [226:08]
Chris Peters
The most predictable thing of the night, maybe, other than Gavin McKenna, I don't know.
- [226:12]
Max Boltman
Where's the one pick that I guarantee is not getting traded? 32 is not allowed.
- [226:17]
Scott Wheeler
Not allowed for the. Can't trade it. Can't trade it.
- [226:20]
Max Boltman
And if you're wondering why this is, by the way, Carolina Hurricanes already won the Stanley Cup. Usually that is the 32nd pick. So Ottawa had initially forfeit its pick this year. It was a long process to get it back. And the NHL did it and they, they didn't give it all the way back. They said, all right, you can have
- [226:34]
Scott Wheeler
the pick back, but it's 32 no
- [226:36]
Max Boltman
matter what, and you cannot trade it.
- [226:37]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah.
- [226:37]
Chris Peters
And that was a gift to Michael an, who was not the owner. When the trans. When the transgressions happened, I.
- [226:45]
Corey Pronman
When that happens, like the, the Dan off penalty and when the Arizona got penalized for the combine, I feel like both of those management groups were gone. When the penalty comes around, like you're really just penalizing the fans at that point. It's the Nashville.
- [226:59]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, Nashville. And it's 42 and 57.
- [227:02]
Max Boltman
Yeah.
- [227:03]
Corey Pronman
I would have liked to see this
- [227:04]
Max Boltman
be the Pittsburgh Penguins to come up and get Marcus draft night.
- [227:08]
Scott Wheeler
Right? Yeah.
- [227:10]
Corey Pronman
Pittsburgh.
- [227:10]
Max Boltman
Get on the phone right now.
- [227:11]
Corey Pronman
Let's do this.
- [227:12]
Max Boltman
Get on the phone with Nashville.
- [227:13]
Scott Wheeler
Let's go.
- [227:15]
Max Boltman
All right, so we'll see what the Nashville predators and Chris McFarland want to do with this pick. You know, looking ahead to tomorrow, who are the big names that you expect to see come off the board early tomorrow? Scott?
- [227:25]
Chris Peters
I think we'll see Xavier Villeneuve go a little bit earlier. I think people's appetite for the risk reward there is just a little bit more comfortable in that range. I think we'll see guys like Ryan Rubric go in the second half.
- [227:36]
Max Boltman
Goalies coming here.
- [227:38]
Chris Peters
Tobias. Trey Ball will go in the 30s would be my guess.
- [227:41]
Corey Pronman
Yeah, same.
- [227:42]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, I think so. I mean, I, and, and really, we still have these, these two picks to go here.
- [227:46]
Corey Pronman
We. We've mentioned Tommy Bly's name a million times already.
- [227:49]
Chris Peters
I'm. I thought bile was going to be based off all the conversations I've had in the last few weeks. I thought Bly was a lot of
- [227:56]
Scott Wheeler
polling on a lot of the polling. He was 20, you know, early 20s. And we had a good argument about that off.
- [228:02]
Corey Pronman
Off camera earlier.
- [228:03]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, Yeah.
- [228:03]
Corey Pronman
I said I don't think he's going to go the first. You thought that was preposterous.
- [228:06]
Scott Wheeler
I did. I did.
- [228:07]
Corey Pronman
Watch him go here now.
- [228:08]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, exactly. He better go here. Nashville. Do me a solid. I can't have Corey lord this over me for another year.
- [228:14]
Corey Pronman
Oh, yeah, I'm gonna lord that over
- [228:16]
Max Boltman
tavern style pizzas calling our name.
- [228:18]
Scott Wheeler
I know we're pretty excited about it.
- [228:20]
Max Boltman
Nashville's breaking the rule. They traded up they got to know who they're getting. They're sitting on the clock.
- [228:24]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, I know. Just go ahead and make the pick. Take it. Yeah.
- [228:27]
Chris Peters
So we're almost at the four hour mark and the Predators want to make sure we get there.
- [228:31]
Corey Pronman
Listener, listen. The listeners can see us lose losing steam here a little bit, I will say so.
- [228:36]
Scott Wheeler
So real quick, shout out to the Athletic for these chairs. They've only just started becoming uncomfortable and it's an hour four, so. Yeah, but so normally, like the other thing too is normally in these draft situations, the three of us are feverishly typing. I will tell you right now, this is way better.
- [228:55]
Max Boltman
Feverish typing doesn't go away, it just gets delayed.
- [229:00]
Chris Peters
I've got a couple hours left here.
- [229:01]
Scott Wheeler
It is delayed, but I'm like, hey, this is, this is not bad. I will take this.
- [229:05]
Max Boltman
All right. Nashville's pick is in, which is good because if they took any more time, I was going to ask Chris to put that helmet on behind his head
- [229:10]
Scott Wheeler
here and I'll do it. It won't fit. It really will not.
- [229:13]
Max Boltman
Maybe I'll try on the goalie mitt over my shoulder. The Nashville Predators are making their pick right now. Tommy, how about that first round pick?
- [229:26]
Scott Wheeler
All right.
- [229:26]
Corey Pronman
Right.
- [229:26]
Chris Peters
How many? Five. Tanner Molendyk, Cameron Reed, Tommy Ble. How many? 511, six foot defenseman can one organ. All great skaters. That's the theme there. Lyle, Molendike, Reed, excellent skaters.
- [229:39]
Corey Pronman
Yeah.
- [229:39]
Scott Wheeler
Mullen Dyke is probably going to need a bit of a reset here. He, he's, you know, he's been, he's struggled. He's struggled a bit. Cameron Reed's going to Michigan, you know, an opportunity to kind of see where he goes. Tommy Blau is an electric skater. I mean, and that to me, like, to me, his postseason was what sold me on him being a first round pick pick. It's the guy that, you know, had an opportunity to, to go. He played prep school hockey last year, goes in the qmjhl, sets the record for most assists by a defenseman that had stood for whatever since 1978 or something like that. It had been like 40 some years. And he also, in that postseason run for Moncton, which went all the way to the championship series, ended up losing to Chicoutimi. He was playing major minutes. There was a five overtime game in the, in, in that postseason. He looked like he hadn't skate, like he was still skating at the level that he's capable of in the fifth overtime. I mean, he's a good shooter. It's not an amazing shot, but he gets into, gets into the play. He is able to recover. I think the defending is, is solid. Like the difference between we came out of the season, Xavier Villeneuve was going to be the number one QMJHL defenseman
- [230:49]
Chris Peters
taking it felt like, like reigning QMJHL defenseman of the year.
- [230:52]
Scott Wheeler
And then boom, here comes Tommy Bly and he takes that away from him. And he also now goes in the
- [230:57]
Chris Peters
first round rookie of the year.
- [230:59]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, I mean like so many awards and yeah, we're going to see more American players making that decision that Tommy Blau just did. And there, you know, guys that saw him in prep school, they said probably a mid round pick a guy that we would take like, like the skating, like some of the tools. He goes to the queue and lights it ablaze over 80 points. I mean, so I think this is to your point, they've got a lot of this, but that's another guy where I think the tools.
- [231:28]
Corey Pronman
You take that he'd go to school though. Like, I feel like if you're the best defenseman in the Q, what more.
- [231:32]
Scott Wheeler
I agree.
- [231:33]
Corey Pronman
What more does he have to play 100?
- [231:35]
Chris Peters
He was tested on that at the combine. The decision to go back to Moncton, I think he said, I want to play for Gardner McDougal and Taylor McDougal and win a QMJHL title, which we didn't get to do this year. And I think Chase Reed being at Michigan State.
- [231:47]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah.
- [231:49]
Corey Pronman
There was also talk that's not affecting Ryan Lynn's decision to go to Denver though.
- [231:52]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah. And that was also the talk of, of kind of, you know, with, with Chase Reed. But Landon dupont was an option for Michigan State. Didn't end up getting him. Like if I'm Michigan State, like they've been, I think they've been pretty respectful of Bly's decision and the rationale there. But, but I would also agree with you. I think that it's beyond the one
- [232:14]
Chris Peters
roster spot they haven't filled.
- [232:16]
Scott Wheeler
And, and I think, you know, giving your word, like we're, we're in a new era here and I understand giving your word and I really, really, really respect that. I'm not trying to pry him away from Gardner McDougal here. It's just a simple. You just had 80 points in the league. Your team is going to be a bit different from next season. There's a lot of different guys. Like, I'm sure they'll still be good because it's Moncton. But you're, you're losing Caleb Denoia. You're losing a lot of other players. I, I just think I, I, I have a hard time seeing how that ends up making the most sense. Yeah, I don't think you can hurt yourself by staying behind. You can hurt yourself by going too early.
- [232:54]
Corey Pronman
But he's not going too early.
- [232:55]
Scott Wheeler
But he's not going too early. I agree with that.
- [232:57]
Max Boltman
All right, so the Ottawa center is now on the clock with the last pick of the draft. We know they're not going to trade it, so we'll see what happens there. While they go, though, I want to ask Scott, you do a piece every year, winners and losers, and I, I want to ask all three of you, give me one winner. You can't say San Jose tonight.
- [233:10]
Chris Peters
Oh,
- [233:14]
Scott Wheeler
you can't say San Jose.
- [233:15]
Max Boltman
They're the obvious. We've already, we've already given San Jose their flowers. Give me one other team that you think they had a great night.
- [233:25]
Chris Peters
Let me think on.
- [233:25]
Max Boltman
All right, I'll, I'll start then. I, I think St. Louis had a great night.
- [233:28]
Scott Wheeler
Oh, yeah.
- [233:29]
Max Boltman
And Lawrence, they get Mason McTavish it. That's a really good night. When you add those two to your center pipeline.
- [233:34]
Corey Pronman
I like Calvary. Getting Carls and Hextall, two premium position guys, they get. I know there's been some, you know, talk about that where they get the center. They pass on Bjork for Carl's. But Hextall's a really good center prospect. And, you know, I think that those two there, that's a, that's a big injection there to their system.
- [233:50]
Scott Wheeler
This could be recency bias, but I'm going to go with Nashville. And it's actually more about Wyatt Cullen than it is Tommy Bly. I think that Wyatt Cullen does have a chance, chance to be one of those guys that we look back on and say, this guy, that's the guy.
- [234:05]
Max Boltman
And there's a theme to that. Right. I mean, they're a team that probably needed some, some upside, some skill, and they get it in this class.
- [234:11]
Scott Wheeler
I like that.
- [234:12]
Chris Peters
Just one pick, but I think Seattle finally getting.
- [234:14]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah.
- [234:16]
Chris Peters
And getting read is big time.
- [234:18]
Corey Pronman
Montreal poaching Bukachev in the 20s, I think was just a really good use of asset management by them, too.
- [234:23]
Max Boltman
That could age really well.
- [234:24]
Scott Wheeler
All right, the pick that could not move is in.
- [234:27]
Max Boltman
That's right. Gary Bettman up at the podium for the last one. Real quick. Thank you all for being with us throughout this one. This has been awesome, seeing the number be as high as it is the whole night. We are so grateful to you. Guys, spending your draft night with us here on the Athletic and Flow Hockey NHL Draft live. The last pick of the 2026 draft, it's Jackson.
- [234:44]
Chris Peters
Cover.
- [234:45]
Max Boltman
You know all about this kid.
- [234:46]
Chris Peters
The story of the draft for me, I, I know the rucks have, have sort of been that for a lot of people but Jackson is, is. I'm so happy to see him go in the first round here. This is a kid who until five years ago had never played organized ice hockey. Grew up on the Cayman Islands. His dad's from Etobicoke and works at the local CIBC there. The Canadian Bank Cayman Islands are a big banking institution in the, in the Caribbean. Played roller hockey because his dad started a roller hockey club at a, at a little local gym and became a star at playing roller hockey. And you can see it in his game now that he's still extremely raw. He came over during that pandemic, played a year of double A hockey, then played a second year of double A hockey. Played one year of triple A hockey, got drafted in the ohl, was a rookie in the OHL this year in his draft year, led an uncharacteristically poor London Knights team from an offensive standpoint, from a star power standpoint, led them in scoring. Very, very skilled on the puck. That comes from the roller hockey. It's a lot of one on one. It's a lot of natural puck skill. He's got an NHL release release. It's just the learning of the game, the decision making. That's a big, big area that needs to improve.
- [235:56]
Corey Pronman
The story is great. The tools are great. How we actually looked on the ice this season was very inconsistent.
- [236:03]
Chris Peters
You're betting on the skill. I like it for. I mean he wasn't in, in the first round on my list but I like if you're the Ottawa Senators, I like that they've taken two swings on
- [236:13]
Max Boltman
skill here different than Sokolovsky. I mean we're in this range of the draft. You could make a similar case.
- [236:18]
Corey Pronman
Unreal that the London Knights were like, you know, more of an average year for them. They still get two first still two first round picks.
- [236:23]
Scott Wheeler
It's unbelievable.
- [236:24]
Chris Peters
And he's going back there next year. So he's. Instead of jumping into college, he's committed to Penn State. But he's going back there next year. I think that'll be big for him. They'll be a better team next year.
- [236:33]
Max Boltman
Good environment to be in development.
- [236:34]
Scott Wheeler
So to Scott's point, and there's a lot of learning the game at that level that still needs to be done. The fact that he was as productive this season without that level of experience. He is, he is a, a real outlier in this class in terms of his developmental experience being what it was. I'm fascinated by that because if you were that good there, where does that say you can go? What, what kind of room do you have to grow? The ceiling on. On cover is, is high because of that. There is a gigantic risk profile.
- [237:10]
Corey Pronman
There's a cover with that.
- [237:12]
Chris Peters
It's covert cover.
- [237:13]
Scott Wheeler
My bad. Well, I said cover because I just, I said cover.
- [237:15]
Max Boltman
That's on me.
- [237:16]
Scott Wheeler
That is on you. But either way, we're, we're. I, I think the, the fact that we're what, four, four years of like legitimate, higher at least highish level of hockey.
- [237:27]
Chris Peters
These kids have been playing365 ridiculous hours clock like his hours on ice relative to every other player that we saw get picked tonight. It's not even close.
- [237:37]
Corey Pronman
Right.
- [237:38]
Scott Wheeler
So that's, that's, that's a big.
- [237:39]
Chris Peters
But it's also. You're, you're, you're betting on a lot if you're counting on there being catch up. That doesn't always.
- [237:46]
Scott Wheeler
There's a lot of hope there. There's a lot of hope there.
- [237:48]
Max Boltman
All right, well, a great story to finish out the 2026 NHL Draft that is going to do it for us. Thanks for joining us for the athletic and flow hockey NHL draft lies. Make sure you join us back here tomorrow after the draft ends for our full recap. We going live here again. Then make sure you subscribe to the athletic Hockey show on YouTube so you can be with us. And thanks so much for joining us.
- [238:13]
Corey Pronman
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- [239:51]
Corey Pronman
stomach when the connection flares up right
- [239:53]
Scott Wheeler
when it matters most.
- [239:54]
Corey Pronman
Your business is only as strong as your connection.
- [239:57]
Scott Wheeler
AT&T business is the reliable provider built for that exact brand of hustle so you can stay focused on the work
- [240:04]
Corey Pronman
that builds your Legacy. Powered by AT Business Built to Work get at business@business.att.com.