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- [00:00]
Max Boltman
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Chris Peters
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- [00:58]
Max Boltman
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Chris Peters
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- [01:13]
Max Boltman
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Chris Peters
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Scott Wheeler
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- [02:12]
Chris Peters
This is the athletic hockey show prospect series.
- [02:27]
Max Boltman
Hey everybody, Max Boltman here alongside the Athletics Corey Promen and Scott Wheeler and Flow Hockey's Chris Peters for another episode of the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. We are back doing our joint consensus ranking episode. This is where we're going to get together here live on the show and put together a consensus top while we're shooting for 10. But as a result of how many players we discuss, we may end up at 12, we may end up at 15. The goal here, for those of you who remember it from last year, is to simulate an NHL teams process in ranking players and all the deliberation that goes into that. So fellas, let's get right into it. This year we're going to get rid of what I think was a popular concept a year ago, the super vote, just for the sake of promoting compromise. I think we were, we were maybe wheeling and dealing, we were maybe leveraging the super vote a little too much last year in a way that NHL teams obviously probably can't do. So we're going to focus on compromise. We're going to focus on making concessions here and ultimately coming to a consensus. And we're going to start right at the top. Corey, did you want to go ahead and nominate someone to begin our tier one of the 2026 NHL Draft class?
- [03:33]
Corey Pronman
Yes. Gavin McKenna, the dynamic Penn State winger, one of the leading scorers in college hockey this past season. Guy who projects as a first line, first power play type of wing in the NHL. I think he belongs in tier one.
- [03:49]
Max Boltman
All right, I. Anyone have a problem with Gavin McKenna being in tier one?
- [03:54]
Scott Wheeler
Zero problem.
- [03:56]
Max Boltman
Zero problems there.
- [03:57]
Corey Pronman
Yeah.
- [03:57]
Max Boltman
All right, Scott, why don't you go ahead and nominate our next player for Tier one?
- [04:02]
Scott Wheeler
I've been of the mind that it's only a two player tier and that the defenseman and killed Melhotra are cut below. So I will nominate Ivar Stenberg for Tier one.
- [04:12]
Max Boltman
Okay, let the conversation begin here. The first question is, do we all agree that Ivar Stenberg is in Tier one? Does anyone want to drop Ivar Stenberg out of Tier one?
- [04:23]
Chris Peters
Nope.
- [04:24]
Max Boltman
All right, then let's debate the placement here. Does anyone want to argue Ivar stenberg above Gavin McKenna? Do you want to tell us a little bit about Ivar Scott?
- [04:33]
Scott Wheeler
I do not want to nominate Ivar stenberg above Gavin McKenna. But Ivar is to me this clear second best forward prospect in this class and the clearest second best prospect in class. I think he's going to be a star winger. We're talking about a player who had a historic, near historic season in the shl. One of the three or four greatest seasons for his age for a draft eligible player in the history of one of the best pro leagues outside of the NHL. Was extremely successful internationally at U18 worlds a full year ago at the World Juniors at Men's Worlds most recently. He's a prolific, prolific talent. He's hard on pucks and I think he projects pretty comfortably as a top of the lineup player. So that's the case for him in this tier. I still think Gavin is the number one prospect in this draft, but I Think it's, it's close enough that they belong in the same grouping.
- [05:29]
Max Boltman
All right, so so far we're off to a pretty easy start. Nobody wanted to rank stenberg ahead of McKenna. Everyone agreed he's belonged in the same tier. So, so so far we are at a list of number one, Gavin McKenna, number two, Ivar Stenberg, both within tier one. That's a nice tidy first four minutes, fellas. I think it's about to get more complicated. Chris, it's your turn to nominate someone for Tier one. If you believe anyone else belongs in Tier one.
- [05:52]
Chris Peters
Yeah, I, I, I do. I think that we have a really great group of defensemen here that are, are going to potentially challenge the two forwards for being among the best in this class. And I'm going to start that off with, with Chase Reed. You know the, with, with his size, he's closing in on six, three. You know, he's, he's also a right shot, extremely good skater and also a guy that I think is really on the front end of some of his best development years here. You know, he, he's, he played in the OHL half a season two years ago, now the full season this year. Based on the body of work, plus seeing him at the world juniors with Team USA where he was their best defenseman, I, I just see a player that is, is on the cutting edge of, of where he's going. And so I think that Chase Reed's upside puts him into the tier one discussion for me.
- [06:42]
Corey Pronman
You mentioned his development. You know, I have thought and I'm writing about this this week when I do my piece about why Chase Reed is my number one prospect. I think the trajectory reminds me a little bit of Makar who was a late birthday defenseman and just like he kind of just exploded in his draft year and then he goes to college. Eddie's was really good and had the guy great world challenge it. I think your point about how little high level experience Reid had, you know, before the half year of the OHL is, is very relevant.
- [07:12]
Chris Peters
Yeah. And to me the other thing that strikes me is that he goes from that to being one of the most utilized defensemen in the OHL period and that the results were very strong for a good team. So you know, I think that to me there's a lot to like about him, not just in where he is right now, but where he's going. Because where he is right now is pretty darn impressive. And then you, you kind of like stretch that out to the next tier or the next range of where he goes developmentally, especially going to Michigan State where I think maybe he doesn't have an amazing freshman year, but does he spend a sophomore year there and then have that Makar like kind of explosion? I could see that happening too.
- [07:54]
Scott Wheeler
I'm splitting hairs here and Reid is my third ranked prospect, so he's kind of was a bubble guy of that top tier for me. But my reluctance with placing Reid in that tier though is that despite the fact that he is an offensive defenseman and that that is the sort of primary focal point of his game, he hasn't produced like it and he hasn't produced like it and he is early in his trajectory and early in his development. I agree with that. He has not produced like it and he's an older player in this draft. Like he did not produce like Brandt Clark in the ohl. He did not produce like Zane Parek in the ohl. He did not produce like Ryan Ellis in the ohl. This, this, this wasn't a put it to bed season where he's just the clear cut, best player in the league and he's taking over games. He played a lot. He played 25 to 30 minutes a night for them. He was a point per game. But guy. But the statistical profile for his age did give me at least a little bit of pause in terms of putting him with players like Gavin McKenna and Ivar Stenberg who have done historic things at different levels. Gavin in the whl, Stenberg obviously in the shl. We didn't see Reed reach that level. So I think you're just counting on more coming for him and you're counting on that in an old, in a player who's already on the older side of this class. Now Stenberg and McKenna are also on the older side of this class, but a year ago they were doing historic things. And I just think you're, you're placing
- [09:25]
Chris Peters
more
- [09:27]
Scott Wheeler
sort of Runway on, on Reed than maybe he warrants.
- [09:31]
Corey Pronman
I think I agree with you that like, I don't know if the offense is going to be elite. Elite. I think it's really good. I don't know if it's elite. But you compare him to Bouchard, to Ellis, to Brent Clark. He's a dramatically better defender than all those guys. Like his skating is way better than all three of those guys that you named to go with the size profile too. So I think that would be my distinction there when comparing them to them. Like to me the conversation is how does he compare to those guys? It's how does he compare to Mikhail Sergachev? How does he compare to Drew Doughty? How does he compare to Pavel Menshikov? That to me is more the names I would think of as opposed in terms of the player types.
- [10:08]
Scott Wheeler
Anyways, if we're comparing it, if we're comparing him to Pavel Mintukov, I don't think he belongs in the Tier one of a draft. And I would probably say the same thing of Sergachev. And obviously Doughty is doughty. If you think he's doughty, then he belongs with McKenna and Stenberg. But if you think he's Sergachev or Mintyukov, like, I don't know that he belongs in that group.
- [10:30]
Corey Pronman
I think just, I think he's close to a dowdy. Was at the same age. Like, just. That's, that's kind of. I don't know. I don't know if he is dowdy at the same age, but I think he's close. That's, that's how I've, that's. And that's kind of been my, my thought process when evaluating Reed.
- [10:47]
Max Boltman
All right, so we've got Chris nominating him for Tier one. Scott, I think, has kind of told us he does not feel that he's in the same tier, even if it's close. Corey, you have him as your number one player. So we know you have him in Tier one. That, that puts it at two to one between you guys. I tend to think this is a, a bigger group at the top of the class. So I think that, that he belongs in Tier one here, Chase Reed. So that gives us three. So, Scott, are you okay with us putting.
- [11:12]
Scott Wheeler
Yes.
- [11:12]
Max Boltman
Chase Reed in Tier one? All right, so now that he's in Tier one, we got to place him here. So, Corey, you've, you've kind of made your, your case already for Reed as the top player in this class. Where do we want to slot him here? Chris, why don't you kind of take the lead on this?
- [11:25]
Chris Peters
Yeah, I mean, I'm going to have him behind the two wingers. I'm going to have him at three. And the reason being for some of the reasons that Scott mentioned is that while I do see that, that Runway that we have for Chase Reed, where he is kind of, you know, we're kind of projecting out a little bit more based on where he is right now. There's always risk in doing that. I think that this is more of a risk. Risk assessment. I feel a little bit more confident that both McKenna and Stenberg are going to be Top, top line producers. And while I believe that Reed has the capability to be a number one defenseman, I can't, you know, like, I don't have the level of confidence at this point to say that he's definitely going to surpass what those other two guys have done. Now I could definitely be persuaded into Reed in the, in the, you know, the two range and I think like, I think it's per. Personally, I think it'.
- [12:19]
Scott Wheeler
Close.
- [12:19]
Chris Peters
The only reason that I'm not putting them ahead of those guys is simply because I'm projecting out more with him than I am with the other two. I feel like.
- [12:27]
Max Boltman
Okay, here's a question in response to that. Let's say Reed's offense isn't special. Let's say it's 50 point offense. How good does Stenberg as a 511 winger have to be to overcome a 6, 3 defenseman who can put up 50 points like Thomas Harley's on Team Canada with roughly that profile?
- [12:45]
Chris Peters
Yeah, I mean, I really do think that, that Ivar is going to have to be in, you know, an 80 point winger, you know, to, to, to, to ma. Over. Over perform that value. Because I do put such a tremendous value on the amount of minutes that I think Reed can play in that setting. A 50 point defenseman, a guy that probably is, you know, a U.S. olympian in this case. You know, where it's like that's, that's where. But do I think that Stenberg can do that? I do. So like that's, you know, that's kind of where it comes down to the two. Where it's like, hey, like that. If that's the tippy top of his projection, I do think the top of his projection is a little bit higher, you know, overall than, than what I'm seeing. Just, just because at Reid I feel like there's a risk, you know, a risk in that, in placing him that high.
- [13:31]
Scott Wheeler
I, I think, I think Stenberg can be not only an 80 point winger, but like a winning version of an 80 point winger as well. Like a guy who does a lot of things that you like. I think you, to your point, if I think there's a very real chance that Reed's a future Olympian. Do any of us doubt whether after watching him play with Lucas Raymond, whether Ivar Stenberg is a future top six player for Sweden at the Olympics? Like, I think that's, that's the kind of player we're talking about here as well.
- [13:56]
Chris Peters
Yeah.
- [13:57]
Corey Pronman
You know what I've written about the draft class. I've Written that I feel like it's a five way tie at the top. I still believe that. So I'm not going to make a big deal about whether we put Reid at 3. Like I think it's a very reasonable argument, you know, whether Toronto took Reed or Stenberg or McKenna with their first pick, I'm going to give him the exact same draft grade I'm going to give. I'm going to say their farm system has improved pretty much the, at the exact same amount. So I think it's fine. So really I think Max, this comes down to you, like where do you want to put reach?
- [14:29]
Max Boltman
I'm comfortable at three. I mean I probably would nominate him at two here, but it's not something I'm going to dig my heels in over. So if, if the consensus is kind of at three, I can live with that. So we will, we will have our tier one order right now as McKenna, Stenberg, Chase, Reed. My turn to nominate. I'm going to nominate another defenseman, Carson Carls. I've made my pitch to you guys on the past show but I'll restate it here a little bit. I think he's the toughest to play against defenseman in this class. I think he's a good skater. I think he's got a real weapon for a shot and I think that's reflected in the fact that he outproduced the other Canadian Hockey League defensemen in this class. I think he's a tougher comparison to the guys in other leagues, obviously Keaton Verhoff and Albert Smiths. But when you look at the combination of the tools and kind of the play style, I mean the offense probably does not maintain at quite that level. But I don't think it needs to maintain at a massive level for him to still become a player in the mold of like a Charlie McAvoy, maybe a Jake Sanderson. I don't know that the skating is quite that level. That'd be my pitch for Carson Karls in Tier 1. Does anyone want to join me in putting Carl's in Tier 1?
- [15:33]
Corey Pronman
Not at this stage.
- [15:35]
Scott Wheeler
I'm not quite there.
- [15:36]
Chris Peters
No. Yeah, I feel, I feel like our top tier is the three and I
- [15:41]
Corey Pronman
think that, I think my distinction with the Sanderson comp is I don't think he's as elite a skater as Sanderson. Now I will say this, Max is not on an island. I have talked to evaluators who think he is Anderson and, and who think he should like, you know, be talked about at 2, 3, 4, in this draft. I have personally not viewed that when I've watched him. But I don't think what Max is saying is unreasonable or not shared by some professional evaluators in the league.
- [16:10]
Scott Wheeler
My sense is that it's very close between him and Reid in a consensus around the league. From those I've talked to like I've talked to maybe not just as many people who have him as the top defenseman, but a number of people who have him ahead of Reed.
- [16:24]
Chris Peters
Yeah.
- [16:24]
Max Boltman
All right, so we'll withhold debate on Carl's versus other people for later in the. In the episode when someone else is in tier two. For now, tier one is McKenna Stenberg Reed. Tier two is Carl's. Corey, it's your turn again to nominate someone. Do you want to nominate anyone else for tier one or are we into tier two now?
- [16:40]
Corey Pronman
I'm going to nominate Albert Smith. To me this is a guy who has just had a fantastic season. Played very well against men in Liga and in the playoffs, played well against NHL players at the Olympics, played was one of Latvia's best players at the world championships and at the World Juniors 6, 3 mobile, competitive, has pretty good offense. Like to me this is a profile. You think of some of the best European defensemen that come out of, you know, into the draft in the last decade. You think of Hasting and you think of Cider. Like I think what he's accomplished in those leagues and against men is comparable. He's not a skater that Haskanen is. He's not as physical as Ciders. He's a different player. But I think to me he looks like a pretty good bet to become a top pair defenseman in the NHL.
- [17:29]
Max Boltman
All right, so that's a tier one nomination to be clear.
- [17:32]
Corey Pronman
Yes.
- [17:33]
Max Boltman
Is anyone oppose Scott or Chris? Albert Smith's in tier one.
- [17:38]
Scott Wheeler
I'm not there. I love Alberts. He's my number two ranked defenseman. I actually have him ahead of Carl's on my list. I wor the one hiccup I've had with Smits is sort of the decision making and the reads at times. I'm not sure that he thinks it at a high enough level to become a true, true sort of number one to become what Cider has become. I love the tools. I think there's more. I've said this on the podcast before but I think he's actually got more offense than people give him credit for. I think he's very, very skilled with the puck. But it's just that it's very much Reliant on instinct, I think more than the other top D in this class. And I worry that he' he'll run around and get caught out of position and put himself in some bad spots at times.
- [18:22]
Max Boltman
Chris, where are you at Albert Smith's Tier one?
- [18:24]
Chris Peters
I'm not there either. I think that some of it is. I don't, you know, I definitely don't see like the offensive creativity, the opportunity to you know, be a guy that is going to play. I think to play the top level minutes in the, in the NHL you have to have a, a more dynamic element than he has at this point. What I will say is I think he's an incredibly steady, stable, predictable, kind defenseman that does have the maturity, the physical strength, the defending, all those things. Like I feel like he's among the most complete players but I look at some of the other guys and I see a little bit more of a dynamic element to them. You know, he's, he's my third ranked defenseman. I have have Reed and Carl's ahead of him at this point. But you know, I do think that he is a really intriguing player overall. And while I don't see him as a tier one guy, I certainly see him as, as one of the top tier players in this draft.
- [19:19]
Corey Pronman
Chris, how would you compare him to Keandre Miller?
- [19:23]
Chris Peters
I would say to me Keandre was. That's a good question. I would say that that's. They're probably fairly similar in terms of profile. The thing that I would say is like Keandre, the difference between him, like I felt bigger, he was bigger. And then also on top of that, he really was kind of a lot. He was more raw than for sure than, than Smith's was. Like I think Smith's is more advanced and I wonder kind of about the floor versus, you know, the ceiling kind of scenario. I felt like Keandre had this ceiling to him that I'm not necessarily sure that I see with Alberts. But at the same time, like I just look at this guy and I'm like, it wouldn't shock me if he played in the league next year. You know, like I think that he's got that capability.
- [20:05]
Corey Pronman
He was telling all the teams at the combine. For what it's worth, he wants to be in the NHL next year. Not that it's his decision, but he seems to be a confident player.
- [20:14]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, no shortage.
- [20:16]
Max Boltman
So we're going to have Smith's in Tier two here. Now we got to debate Smiths versus Carl's. So Corey Why don't you make the. The case for Smith's above Carl specifically?
- [20:24]
Corey Pronman
I think he's got just as much offense. I think Carl's is way more physical and competitive, but knocking out way more. He's more physical and competitive. Smiths is bigger though. I think there's a little bit more natural offense there with the hand skill, the big, the big point shot. What he's done against men to me is significantly more impressive than what Carl's did this year against junior players. Like, I think you're doing a lot of projecting with Carl still that there's going to be offense at higher levels. I think with Smith's what he's shown you against men at various different levels of competition feel like there's not a lot of projection. He played against NHL players, he played successfully against NHL players. So I think you take some of the guesswork out there a little bit.
- [21:07]
Scott Wheeler
I'll say on Carl's too, I've had, I've had NHL people sort of flag to me that they're not sure he's. One of the things that defined him in the WHL this year was how mean he was, how physical he was, his ability to bully guys at times. I've had people flag to me that at six one and a half and playing in the 1 90s, maybe he plays at 200. He's not actually going to be a big defense. Like that's not a big, big, big defenseman in the NHL. And so I do wonder if that's. If that's his identity now that it is similar to sort of McAvoy. I actually like the McAvoy Comp for Carl's but he's, he's not, he's not going to be that bully mean type in all likelihood or it's going to be harder for him to be that kind of player in the NHL. Like he's just that. That's not huge.
- [21:55]
Corey Pronman
Is he not that much different than like K Sean Aichardson? Like I think they're different but like I feel like that that body type's closer to him than it is to like Smithson Verhoff.
- [22:04]
Max Boltman
For me, I like that player too.
- [22:06]
Scott Wheeler
But I, I think he's a way better skater than Cash. That would be the better.
- [22:11]
Max Boltman
They're both big point shots and I think Carl's. I've seen moments with Carl's where the vision I think does look like it projects to be able to play on a second power play. Maybe you could say the same for Aitchison, but That'd be my case. But, you know, I, I think these two players are close. They'd probably be back. Close to back to back to me, certainly within a group of two or three. Chris, where do you fall here? I think you said you had Carl's one ahead of Smith's.
- [22:33]
Chris Peters
Yeah, I had him ahead of Smith's. I don't necessarily view him as a, you know, as a top tier player in terms of where, where I look at where the, the delineation is, but to me, because of some, like, I just think there's a lot of completeness to his game. I think he's an incredibly smart player. I also, like, this doesn't really factor into my slotting, but he's like the perfect player for North Dakota. It's kind of crazy. Like, it's like hand to glove fit. Like, I think they're going to really maximize what he does at that school. So, like, you know, I think that that's going to take him to a, to another, another level here. But yeah, I mean, I like the player a lot. I think the offensive game, the flourishing of the offensive game this year really was a, was a selling point for me. And just seeing that, that physical nature that he doesn't lose that, that he often outplays, you know, other top guys because of how much he can impact the game in so many different ways, that's a huge thing. So I mean, like, could I, could I. Could you be. Persuade me that he's among the best guys in this class? Absolutely. Could you persuade me that he could even one day supplant Reed? You know, I think like, that's, that's, that's a conversation too. So there's a lot of, A lot to like.
- [23:44]
Scott Wheeler
He, I know Eileen Smith, so not to make the case for Chris here, but he was better than. And Reed is obviously not. We're, we're not. We're done sort of talking about read. But he was better than Reed at the CHL USA in November.
- [23:55]
Chris Peters
Oh, yeah. Yeah. But not at the World Juniors, so no. Yeah.
- [24:00]
Max Boltman
All right, so I think we're two. Two on this one. So we are going to have to have someone volunteer to compromise on either Smiths or Carl's here. Does anyone want to volunteer to throw their hat down?
- [24:12]
Corey Pronman
So I know there's some Keaton Verhoff hate among this group already kind of thing.
- [24:19]
Chris Peters
I don't know if I'd say that.
- [24:20]
Corey Pronman
Okay.
- [24:21]
Max Boltman
But skepticism. How about skepticism?
- [24:23]
Corey Pronman
Yes. I have my tier one so I can bend on Carl's Here, But Verhof, to me, has to be in the top seven overall for me to do that.
- [24:38]
Chris Peters
I mean, I.
- [24:39]
Scott Wheeler
That's gonna be. That's gonna be hard for me. I have Verhof 8, but I'm. I'm pretty confident in the 7 ahead of Verhoff. I knew that Verhof was going to be a point of contention for us coming into this. I have a tough time with Verhoff ahead of any of Carl Smith's. Bjork. We'll get to Bjork. Malhotra, like, that's. I don't know. I'm just not there on. On Keaton.
- [25:04]
Max Boltman
Okay, Chris.
- [25:05]
Chris Peters
Yeah. I mean, I, I can. I. I can bend because I don't like what I. What I would say about this group of defensemen, and I would include Verhoff in this, too, is that after we get past, like, I. I've got. Reed is like the ceiling guy, the guy that I'm, I'm, you know, maybe feeling a little more confident about. The rest of them are clumped, and. And I think you could even clump multi Gustafson into this clump as well. And. And so, like, now you're. Now we're talking about just kind of like, I could be easily persuaded to do any order of those guys and not fight it because, you know, I. I don't have as strong of feelings about any single one of them.
- [25:46]
Corey Pronman
So it sounds like we're putting Smiths.
- [25:48]
Max Boltman
We are. We are putting Smiths at. At number four. Carl's at number five for where we have it right now, both in tier two.
- [25:54]
Scott Wheeler
What.
- [25:54]
Max Boltman
I'll say, Chris. I agree with you about the clump, but I just look at it and I see, like, every defenseman in this seems to kind of have a lane, and I think Carl's kind of fits into every lane somewhere. He might not be number one on maybe. I think maybe number one on the physicality. But I understand Corey's point. I think it's a good point about how does kind of size translate into what that style looks like in the NHL. I still think, you know, I think you've used Ryan McDonough for him before. I think Ryan McDonough was plenty physical
- [26:19]
Corey Pronman
in the NHL, not mine.
- [26:22]
Chris Peters
Oh, sorry.
- [26:22]
Max Boltman
Scott's point. But I think Carl's is kind of on all of those, and that's where it elevates to me. But I am okay with. With this how we have it standing. So tier one, McKenna, Stenberg and Chase Reed. Tier two, Albert Smits and Carson.
- [26:36]
Chris Peters
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- [27:04]
Max Boltman
Pretty hard to beat.
- [27:05]
Chris Peters
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Scott Wheeler
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- [29:08]
Max Boltman
I think Corey basically already gave us our next name that we're gonna discuss here in Keaton Verhoff and it sounds
- [29:14]
Corey Pronman
like he's gone right? Number six.
- [29:17]
Chris Peters
Well, when. When did. When do we stop talking about Caleb Malhotra?
- [29:21]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, well.
- [29:22]
Max Boltman
Well, we never started.
- [29:23]
Corey Pronman
We're going to get around to it.
- [29:25]
Max Boltman
Maltra will come up, but we've already kind of broached Verhoff. Let's just have the conversation. Corey, go ahead.
- [29:30]
Corey Pronman
I don't know, like, he's had the same kind of numbers as a 17 year old in college that Zach Rowinsky and Noah Hannifan did. He's got size. He's a good enough skater, plays both ways. Captain, Canada type, type of, type of character. I don't think the offense is elite, but it's good. Like, he was a top power play guy for a top five team in the country. In North Dakota, he was not late
- [29:55]
Scott Wheeler
in the year when the games mattered. He was not running PP1.
- [30:00]
Corey Pronman
No, it was always Livin Navage running the power play. But he was a part of their power play. And I don't know, it's to me like he just checked so many boxes. The body of work, so impressive going back to his, his junior days. Like, I don't see the issue here. I think people are overthinking this one a little bit. I think he's awesome.
- [30:21]
Chris Peters
I don't think he's. Hockey sense is awesome. And that's the, that's the thing. Like, his reads throughout the season were not good and then they got worse. And so I think, you know, basically it got to the point, you know, there was a lot of focus on him. Jake Levin, Avage was the number one defenseman on that team. And then on top of that, you know, they had other guys that were able to kind of fill the gap. But I think, you know, the things that, the other things that I'll say though, about Keaton, that is important caveats in this is that he was one of the youngest players in college hockey. He's young for the draft class. He does have this incredible, you know, size profile. The adjustment from WHL to college is far greater than I think anybody really anticipated. And it was a significant difference. And his role was different for Victoria than it was for North Dakota. And he had to kind of figure that out. I think that, you know, he's a guy that I would expect to take a big step next year. I think he's a guy that will be a very important player for North Dakota, you know, but my concern is when, when I see the hockey sense concerns, I look a little bit less. I was like, you know, all the, all the athlete, the athletic profile and everything looks good, but, you know, I think he was jumping into plays in weird spots. He was, you know, not really tracking back all that well. And then, you know, it continued a little bit too. At the world under 18s, I saw a player that I expected to dominate. I saw a player that looked lost at times. And so, I mean, you guys were there. I was watching on video. Maybe you saw it differently. So I'll, I'll, I'll, but, but I, I couldn't, you know, I expected him to be a dominant player now, I will say, going back to last under 18 two years ago or the year before and his WHL season, the profile there suggests, you know, a lot more to come. And I think that that's not, I'm not discounting that, but I just, I have more concerns about the hockey sense at this point than I did at the beginning of the season. And to me, that is where I start to draw a little bit more of a line.
- [32:25]
Corey Pronman
Yeah, I agree. I don't think he's super smart, but like, I don't think Ekblad is super smart. I don't think Chikran is super smart. And that's kind of what I kind of project him as at the next level.
- [32:36]
Scott Wheeler
I worry in terms of him becoming that kind of a player. My worry on top of the hockey sense is the boots, like, the pivots, the clumsiness when he has to get going quickly turns. I, I've found that to be an issue. I think he skates fine when he's moving, when he has to adjust against coverage or pivot to go back and get a puck. He's almost always losing those races and stumbling a little bit and it's just not clean. And that is going to be an, it's the similar issue that I had with Carter Yakimchuk at the same age. But I think that's going to be a bit of an issue, and I think we're going to see almost immediately the difference between Carls and him on that team next year. Like, I just think with the way Carl's skates that he's going to quickly become their number one and that I'm, and, and I don't even see like, great offense. Like, he's, he's got the big point shot, but I don't think his hands are particularly soft. I don't think he's a natural, natural playmaker for his, for his line mates. Like, there are just enough question marks there where I just, I, I, I would have a very hard time having him ahead of Mel Holtra or Bjork with what we've seen those two guys do this year.
- [33:46]
Max Boltman
Scott, how would you explain the production then, because I mean for, for a 17 year old to have 20 points in college hockey, like there has to be something like contributing to that kind of offense that, to Corey's point, we really the only guys in recent memory that have had that have both been, you know. No. Hannifan and Zach, we're insky. Are both high end NHL players.
- [34:03]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, the, the offense, I mean it's good. He, he, he can score, he can shoot it. He's very active. Like he likes to be below the goal line and at the dots and jump into the play. So he's very involved that way. I just don't think it's natural. Natural puck skill or sort of clear PP1 offense.
- [34:21]
Corey Pronman
I just want PP1 offense. But I think saying he doesn't have, he doesn't have good hands or can't make plays, like, I think that's a little egregious for me. Like, I think, I think we can just disagree on the level of offense. But a guy who had, what do you have, like 20, 25 goals as a 16 year old in the Western League as a defenseman, like this guy has skill. Like, I mean, come on. Like it's just a level of skill. Is the debate.
- [34:43]
Scott Wheeler
Yes.
- [34:44]
Corey Pronman
Yep.
- [34:45]
Max Boltman
I'd also wonder like how much the age explains both of these kind of conversations that we're having. Right. Like if you're the youngest player in your league, I think it's natural that the processing is going to be one of the biggest things that we debate about you. Right. I mean this is. He's about as young as you can be for a college hockey player. And he played in the toughest college hockey conference, the most kind of pro simulated conference.
- [35:05]
Scott Wheeler
To Chris's point though, we also saw it at the World Juniors at U18s. Like we've seen it at levels either.
- [35:13]
Corey Pronman
His Helenka was just okay too, in the summer. I'm also like, we're gonna have this debate even more now in the coming years. We had it with McKenna and with Verhoff and kind of Lawrence to an extent. I'm not so much a big fan of saying it's college hockey. Like it's so tough. Let's just give these guys a break. It's like, you know, I think I'm
- [35:31]
Chris Peters
with you on that.
- [35:32]
Corey Pronman
Yeah, yeah, like, yeah, we're getting better answers because it's higher level hockey. Like it's more, it's more clear information for me as opposed to not, you know, the proper information. Just because they weren't playing junior hockey. Junior hockey requires more projection. College hockey doesn't. So I think it's fair to say if a guy like, say a Lauren struggles, you're like, oh, man, there's some real problems here. But I don't think Verhoff struggled. I know the second half of the year is offense tailed off there a little bit, but. And I think his season overall was a successful season.
- [36:02]
Scott Wheeler
Like I in the games mattered in the games that mattered late in. In their conference tournament and into the frozen four. They did not trust him to play him defensively.
- [36:11]
Corey Pronman
Oh, I know.
- [36:12]
Scott Wheeler
And he was. And he was brutal in some of those games.
- [36:15]
Corey Pronman
I didn't say he was a top player, but I still think like, what you think of what he. How his season went overall. I still think it was a good season. I didn't say it was a great season, but I think it's a good season and the toolkit is great. So that's more my argument is the projection I still think remains positive. Noah Hannifin didn't have a great college season, but he still went top five and is might, you know, and might win a Stanley cup here in a couple of days.
- [36:40]
Max Boltman
Yeah. All right, so it sounds to me, based on the, the discussion here, that we do not have Keaton Verhoff in tier one. Does anyone want to vote Keaton Verhoff ahead of Albert Smiths at the top of tier 2?
- [36:54]
Chris Peters
No.
- [36:54]
Corey Pronman
No.
- [36:54]
Max Boltman
Is it. Does anyone want to vote Keaton Verhoff above Carson? Carl's at number five on this list.
- [37:01]
Corey Pronman
No, I, I would, but it sounds like everybody here is no. Unless I raise something. I hear diff here differently.
- [37:08]
Max Boltman
Scott.
- [37:09]
Scott Wheeler
No.
- [37:10]
Chris Peters
Okay.
- [37:11]
Max Boltman
All right, so our list right now. Tier one, Gavin McKenna, Ivar Stenberg, Chase Reed. Tier two, Albert Smiths, Carson, Carl's and Keaton Verhoff. Scott, delayed nomination to you.
- [37:23]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, I'll nominate Caleb Malhotra. I thought he had which tier in tier 2. I thought Caleb had a tremendous season. I think he's the number one center prospect in the class and I love, love, love, love Viggo Bjork. But Caleb at 6 foot 1, almost 6 foot 2, the way he skates, the way he thinks the game, the two way details, the playmaking, the skill level, the Runway in terms of his physical development and the likelihood that he's going to add some real muscle here, I'm big, big on Caleb. I think he's going to be an important winning centerman in a top six in the NHL and potentially even on a first line that is, I think the Crux of the debate with Caleb is whether he's sort of that excellent high end, one of the better two Cs in the, in, in the league or whether he actually has enough offense to be a 1C and a franchise sort of building block. I think that's a fair debate to have around Caleb. But even if he's the high end 2C I still think he's a top of this draft level player. With all of the things that he's going to bring with the potential for him to be a captain for you and that kind of a thing, I think he's the real deal.
- [38:35]
Corey Pronman
I actually think Viggo Bjork might be the top center in this draft. Actually, you know, typical Scotty underrates small players. But I put, you know, like, but like I think how Bjork looks at the men's worlds, like I actually might have him ahead of Malhotra but I think they both belong like top of tier 2 because of the center position and, and they're, they're the premium value they could deliver to an angel organization, I'm going to guess. Do you have, would you have Malhotra ahead of it ahead of all those D. Scott?
- [39:04]
Scott Wheeler
No, no, I have Malhotra ahead of Verhoff and I have him, Carl's and Bjork sort of really, really close. 4, 5, 6 on my list.
- [39:15]
Chris Peters
So that would.
- [39:16]
Scott Wheeler
Verhoff's the only. Verhoff's the one I would feel strongly about. I think Bjork and Melhor are both ahead of Verhoff which would put Verhoff at 8.
- [39:24]
Corey Pronman
Right, but where. Okay, so we have these defensemen now those three defensemen who are, who's called, who's Malhotra ahead of them for you. So we just get an understanding.
- [39:32]
Scott Wheeler
Malhotra and Smiths and Carl's and Bjork are all back to, back to back on my list. I have Melholtra fourth. I have him ahead of those dudes but he's, I mean it's, that's, that's not what I'm going to fight over.
- [39:48]
Max Boltman
Okay, let's, let's use that as a starting point here. Does anyone want to argue Albert Smith's ahead of Caleb Malhotra?
- [39:56]
Corey Pronman
I would just for the reasons I said earlier. I think that he has both the offense, the competitiveness and the athletic profile. I think you know, Malhotra, you know he's a little bit bigger than Malhotra. I think he's had just as much offense. I think he's just as Competitive, so I'd lean that way, but I'm fine putting Mount HOA head of Carl's ahead and ahead of Verhoff.
- [40:17]
Max Boltman
Chris, where do you stand on all this?
- [40:19]
Chris Peters
Yeah, I have him ahead of, I have him ahead of my tier two defenseman. You know, I have him fourth on my list at this point. But again, I think that the, the, the distance between those two players or him and the defenseman is, is really minimal. I think a lot of it comes down to the position based, you know, kind of argument, the importance of the center position. The fact that I think that he can be a top two line center but not a guaranteed number one center is probably where, you know, I would have some, you know, ability to, to, to wiggle off of four. So. Yeah, I mean, I think that there's. For a lot of the same reasons, like I, I just don't, I couldn't project him safely into a number one center position. And then, you know, if I have Carl's or Smiths or any of them as a top pairing defenseman, that would be a more valuable commodity to me. So I think it's close. I still have Malhotra 4, but I, you know, I, I don't need to fight that fight too, too hard. And I think that's kind of the story of the class too is like this, the distance, the, the gaps between these players, especially in Tier 2, is minuscule as far as I'm concerned.
- [41:28]
Scott Wheeler
Corey?
- [41:28]
Corey Pronman
Yeah, and I think there's a lot of teams picking like 5 to 10 are very happy just to let the cards fall as they are kind of thing, and they'll get a player they're very excited about. Sorry, Scott, I cut you off.
- [41:39]
Scott Wheeler
No, no, you're good. If Chris and I were to relent on Malhotra at 4, would you be okay with Keaton at 8, I. E. Putting Keaton behind Caleb and Vgo and those two. We talked about Smiths and Carl's.
- [41:53]
Corey Pronman
Yeah, that's fine.
- [41:55]
Max Boltman
All right, well, we only have seven right now, but it sounds like we're going to go with Caleb Malhotra at 5, so, so it's going to be Smiths at 4, Malhotra 5, Carl's at 6, Keaton Verhoff currently at 7. Is that correct?
- [42:11]
Corey Pronman
If. And it sounds like Viggo Bjork's coming up here and he's going to be the next player up and I would nominate him for tier two. And I think you're looking at a guy who looks like Frank Nazar. He looks like Logan Stankovin, he looks like that next small play driving, hyper competitive centerman who has a path to being a top six center in the league. I don't know if he's a 1C. Same debates as Malhotra. I think he could be a really good 2C though. And I think the skill, the sense, the competitiveness are all very exciting.
- [42:47]
Scott Wheeler
I think he's even a much better prospect than Nazar and he, Benson and all those guys were at the same age too, like Vigo. What he's accomplished over the last two years deserves a ton of respect.
- [43:00]
Corey Pronman
I think he's a better skating version of Benson who also happens to play center.
- [43:05]
Chris Peters
Yeah, yeah, I, I'm fully on board with this. You know, I think that VGo, to me, Viggo has the best hockey sense in the draft. I think that he's one of the, the smartest overall players. He just knows how to play. And I say it every time I watch him. Guy just knows how to play hockey, which seems like the most basic kind of analysis, but it's just like he plays it at a level that is above most of his peers in terms of how he processes and how he, you know, the decisions that he makes. And also just that drive that he has is, is, is special. So, yeah, I've. So where we. So where does he land then? Where does he land on our list?
- [43:46]
Max Boltman
Scott, why don't you offer the first possibility?
- [43:50]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, I'd like him ahead of Verhoff. I would even listen to him at, at sort of five or six ahead of Carl's.
- [43:59]
Corey Pronman
Cory, I'm fine with. I'm fine with him ahead of Carl's. And I'd put him ahead of Malhotra, but I think I'm going to lose that one. So I'm fine with him right in between Malhotra and Carl's.
- [44:09]
Max Boltman
Okay.
- [44:11]
Chris Peters
Yeah, that. I mean, I think that sounds good. I wouldn't. Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't. Like I said, I wouldn't. I think these guys in this, this 4 to 4 to 8 range here are interchangeable. So I wouldn't even fight the Malhotra versus Bjork fight. So I could, I could be persuaded of that too.
- [44:32]
Max Boltman
We told the guys to come ready to compromise. I'm a little thrown off. This is a lot of voluntary compromise while almost asking to compromise.
- [44:40]
Chris Peters
I'll tell you what, I'll tell you what, Max. Here's why. Because it just, it, it really doesn't matter at this, like, they're really that close. I mean, like that's the thing is like, I don't recall a time where we could have this level of conversation around. And they're all different positions, they're all different, you know, like ages, sizes, all these different things. And I think part of that is because what's coming in like later, we're not even going to talk about those picks is like a massacre compared to whatever, whatever is happening up here. Because this is, this is, this is close. Everything else is a crapshoot.
- [45:21]
Max Boltman
All right, so here's, here's where we stand is I understand it and someone correct me if I've mischaracterized Tier 1, Gavin McKenna, Ivar Stenberg, Chase Reed, Tier 2, Albert Smiths, Caleb Malhotra, Vigo Bjork, Carson, Carl's, Keaton, Verhoff. Anybody out of order there from what I just said?
- [45:39]
Corey Pronman
Nope. Sounds right to me. And then I think the next kind of like consensus name that I'm guessing we all like a lot is Dax and Rudolph. Yep.
- [45:46]
Scott Wheeler
Yep.
- [45:48]
Corey Pronman
To me, he'd be at the bottom of that list. He'd be behind Verhoff, he'd be behind Carl's. Does anybody have Rudolph higher than that?
- [45:58]
Scott Wheeler
I don't have him higher, but I do think he has played well enough to be at the back of that tier rather than the start of the next one. Like, I like it as a nine player tier. If you guys are six or six player tier, that extends to nine, I should say.
- [46:13]
Corey Pronman
I think, I think people, he's a really exciting prospect because of the tools. Like he's six, two and a half measured the combine. He's can skate, he's got legit skill, legit playmaking ability. I think the concern for people is that he's a little tentative defensively. He's not very physical. Now I've made analogies with him to like Thomas Harley at the same age. I think that was the criticism. And Harley is, he's not, you know, he's a little, little aggressive offensively. He doesn't defend very hard, plays a ton of minutes, etc. But where's the defensive impact? So, but I, that for me, I think Rudolph still has enough holes in his game to where I'd probably want him at the back end of this group. Does anybody not want him in tier two?
- [46:56]
Max Boltman
No, I would like tier two.
- [46:59]
Chris Peters
Yeah. Yeah. I think tier two at the, at the end of tier two, his playoffs
- [47:03]
Scott Wheeler
kind of sealed that for me.
- [47:05]
Max Boltman
Yeah, this is a guy who bombs the puck too. I mean, this is going to be a volume shooter. From the point. That's kind of a theme with this year's defenseman. It's interesting that, you know, it's, it's a lot of shooters back there, but I think we're all pretty sold on
- [47:18]
Corey Pronman
decks and I think. And he's the guy along with Chase Reed, who I think teams feel like have the best chance of this top group to be a power play one guy in the NHL.
- [47:28]
Max Boltman
All right, so we will slot Dax and Rudolph in at the number nine spot at the end of tier two. Anyone have a qualm with that? All right, that's no yeses.
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Chris Peters
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- [49:35]
Chris Peters
I believe it is. And I think I'm, I may be going off a little bit off the board from where we were before. I, you know, I'm, I'm on the fence about nominating him for tier 2. But I am really among the people that have warmed greatly to Wyatt Cullen as my next person, at least on the list. Whether he's in tier 2 or tier 3 is kind of irrelevant to me because I think that I feel very comfortable with all the guys we have in T2. But I do think that Wyatt Cullen, with his late rise a lot of the, so he's, you know, winger, more dynamic player, makes a lot of plays. You know, had this huge growth spurt over the last two years going from basically 5 foot 5 to 6 foot 1 to, you know, essentially being, you know, a top player for an NTDP team that was really poor this year, didn't have a lot of excitement about it and certainly had a tough end to their season. But I, I look at the, the totality of tools, the fact that he grew, didn't lose that skill level, didn't lose that, that ability to make the plays that he does and, and now is only going to be able to fill out that frame more and become a more well rounded player. I think that Wyatt Cullen has the upside to be in this conversation.
- [50:54]
Max Boltman
All right, so Chris nominates Wyatt Cullen here. We're at an interesting spot on the board at number 10 because we set out here to make a list of 10 and I understand we're probably going to talk about one or two more players here. But in addition to Wyatt Cullen, who Chris has nominated, Corey, who do you think? Who would you vote as the 10th player in this class? Is it Cullen or is it somebody else?
- [51:12]
Corey Pronman
Cullen on my personal list is 11. The one player who we didn't have who would be ninth on my personal list is Malte Gustafsson. Gustafson to me was, you know, I thought he was the best defenseman at the UAE teams. Big reason why Sweden won a gold medal. Measuring at the combine at six, four and a half, he skates very well for his size. He can make a first pass. He's physical and competitive. To me, he has all the indications of potential top four defenseman at the next level. A guy who's going to be playing a very premium role. You know, you look at what Braden McNabb has been for Vegas right now, I could definitely see him playing that type of role for, for a winning team. And I would lean that over the top six sometimes enigmatic winger. But in Colony, he's also the most, maybe one of the most dynamic players in the draft outside of the McKenna Stenberg level of player. But that'd be my nomination.
- [52:06]
Max Boltman
All right. So my nomination for the 10 spot would be Ethan Belches, the power winger out of Windsor. I think it's a rare profile. I think, you know, the size, the power. I think there is real offense in his game. I understand the second half of the season didn't carry where it began, but I think when you talk about how we talk about like premium positions and defensemen and centers, I understand Winger's not a premium position. But I would argue that this specific type of winger is as rare in the top six as a two way center or a really good defenseman. So I would nominate Ethan Belches to be number 10. Scott, do you have anyone outside of that?
- [52:41]
Corey Pronman
Yeah, and no, I was going to say that let. That was part of the Slafkovsky debate. I remember a few years ago.
- [52:47]
Max Boltman
Yeah. Scott, do you have anyone else besides Cullen Gustafson Belch's that you want to discuss?
- [52:54]
Scott Wheeler
For 10, just to make it four. For four on four different nominations, I would nominate my 10. My top nine are my top nine here. But I will. My 10th guy on my list is Ryan Lynn. So I will nominate Ryan Lynn. I think Ryan is the smartest defenseman in this class. I think he's one of the most well rounded defensemen in this class. I think he's extremely competitive. I think he skates well. I think he sees the ice well. I think he can make plays at, at international events. I think he's been every bit as good as Carson Karls and Keaton Verhoff when they've played on the same teams going all the way back to U17s. And certainly from a production standpoint he's been highly productive on a poorer team than some of those guys have played on in Vancouver with the Giants. I think he's going to go to Denver next year and prove that he belongs at the back of this sort of big cluster of demon. I think he's in that same, same range as them. Although gust of Gustafson's right there for me too. Like Gustafson and Lynn are, are really close for me. But Lynn, I have Lynn ahead of Gustafson.
- [53:56]
Max Boltman
How would you compare Lynn to some of the other kind of defensemen of his profile in recent seasons? Axel Sanding, Pelica, Nils Lunqvist a little bit. He's probably more physical than Lundqvist. Some of these kind of like mobile, smaller puck moving types who have gone.
- [54:10]
Corey Pronman
I thought Cam York, that's another good one.
- [54:13]
Chris Peters
Yep.
- [54:15]
Scott Wheeler
I think there's, there's a little bit of Cam York. Cam York feels like the closest of those names that you just mentioned, I think he's a better prospect at this age than. Than ASP and you go down the list. Victor Soderstrom, some of those guys that have struggled to live up to. To where they're. Where they were drafted. I just think he's more well rounded and more polished at this age than any of a lot. And frankly, significantly more well rounded and more polished at this age than a lot of those kids were. Like, I. I think he's got a real chance to be, like, a Josh Morrissey type. Like, that's the kind of belief that I have in the player.
- [54:48]
Max Boltman
Okay. All right, so let's break this up into the two wingers and the 2D, and then we'll have one winger and 1D at the end of this to. To choose from. We're only looking for one player here. So the order from 11 on is not. Is not the goal here. So Belches versus Colin Corey, did you want to weigh in on that one?
- [55:05]
Corey Pronman
I would probably lean Colin just because I feel like he's more dynamic. Like, there's a skating and a skill gap there. Otherwise, I. I agree with what you're trying to say. Max at the size, physicality combination is really intriguing, but I feel like there's the tout. And now that Cullen was officially measured at 6:1 at the combine, like, yep, to me, his profile is just very exciting, even though his production does scare me this high. But I feel like if you're putting a 10 on your list, it's not as scary. So that would be my lane currently, Scott.
- [55:41]
Scott Wheeler
I'm in. I'm in the same boat as Chris and Corey on it, too. Like, I lean Cohen over Belches. They're. They're close for me. But Cullen's like, Colin may well run the half wall on an NHL power play, and there's not a lot of guys in any draft class that you can say that about.
- [55:56]
Max Boltman
All right, so Colin is going to advance to our final deliberation. Let's go to the D side of this. Chris, did you want to weigh in on Malte Gustafson versus Ryan Lynn?
- [56:05]
Chris Peters
Well, I have go. I have Gustafson as my next player right after Colin on my list. And I think the. The size profile, the physicality, all those different things, like, I think that's a real separator. The fact that he's near, you know, six, almost six five at this point and has the mobility that he does, I think it's just. To me, it's a bit of a Safer projection. I will say that I think that Ryan Lynn is among the, the mo. The smartest defenseman in this class. I won't dispute that at all. I think that that's, you know, a valuable commodity. I going to be a very good player. They're not as close on, on my personal list. You know, I have Gustafson here, so I would, I would definitely lean Gustafson.
- [56:47]
Max Boltman
All right, so is it, are we at Gustafson and Cullen? Sounds like what.
- [56:51]
Corey Pronman
What do you think?
- [56:52]
Max Boltman
Yeah, I'm good. I mean I'm, it's a. I, I think close but I would go with Gustafson there. So Gustafson and Cullen are the two we have to debate. Not as easy to compare apples to oranges as the deed of the winger. Corey, you nominated Gustafson. Chris, you nominated Cullen. Scott, I'll give you the first word on settling this.
- [57:10]
Scott Wheeler
I lean Colin here again just because of the skill level. I do think there is a question of, of absolute ceiling with Gustafson. I think he's going to be a very good middle pairing two way defenseman in the NHL. I'm not sure that we've seen enough from him against whether that's at the professional level or even internationally where he's been very, very good for them and he's even run their power, power play over guys like Axel Olufsen or very skilled Demon. But I'm not sure we've seen, I'm not sure I've seen enough offense to justify swatting him ahead of a winger that I think can be a high end, high end, point producing winger in the league.
- [57:50]
Max Boltman
Corey, do you want to respond to that?
- [57:53]
Corey Pronman
I just feel, I feel like Cullen one, I feel like there's some risk that he's actually going to be. That he's never actually produced anywhere. So like I think that's one minor concern. Even though I think he has a chance to be a really productive, dynamic player at the next level. I just feel like premium positions like I think Gustafson is going to be a top four defenseman in the league and like I got to be really convinced the winger is different and I'm not sure there's, I haven't seen the evidence with Cullen in that regard yet.
- [58:22]
Chris Peters
I would say in terms of the production question with Cullen, he was on maybe the worst NTDP team ever. I mean like it's, it's up there very low production of a team struggled. He was still over a point per game player in on that team, which I think is an accomplishment on top of that, also had dealt with injuries earlier in the season.
- [58:46]
Scott Wheeler
He's also. September 8th birthday.
- [58:48]
Chris Peters
Yeah, he's, he's one week away from not being eligible for this draft. And then also in his, you know, in his youth days, he was always the most productive player on his teams.
- [58:59]
Corey Pronman
Again, whether or not that matters, he's right in this mix for me. I'm just saying, like if I had to, I think, don't think. I think there's just like with every player there's risks in profiles and this is the risk in this player. You're drafting a scorer who's never actually scored.
- [59:16]
Chris Peters
I, I mean he has scored though.
- [59:17]
Corey Pronman
Like that's not, not, not, not at the level of a top 10 pick where you're placing him right now. I mean, I know and you look at NTDP history, he's not close to like where guys who go in this range, he could be like Sonny Milano for all, you know, like that's, you know, that's the risk at this, for
- [59:34]
Scott Wheeler
the, for the record multi. Gustafson has also not scored at the level of a top 10.
- [59:38]
Corey Pronman
But, but I'm not telling you who's going to run a power play in the NHL, right?
- [59:43]
Chris Peters
But I mean like I think if you're, if you're, if you're convinced that Malte Gustafson is going to be, you know, a top. Like, I think like there's a ton of value if he's a top 4D and Cullen is a second line wing. I'll take the top 4D, no problem. You know, but like I think that the.
- [59:57]
Corey Pronman
So you think Cullen's a top line wing?
- [59:59]
Chris Peters
I think Cullen has the ceiling to be a potential top line winger. Yes. We don't have as much evidence that's a huge risk in the projection. But I look at the dynamic skill like, like let's get him on a decent team and see what, what happens. Because like guy Sonny Milano had Jack Eichel, you know, so it's like, you know, those are, those are the, those are the differences that we're talking about. Like I think this team's like looking at the historic numbers for this team versus every other NTDP team is, is foolhardy.
- [60:27]
Corey Pronman
Is the Gophers going to be a good team next year?
- [60:31]
Chris Peters
They'll be better than what he had this year, I'll tell you that much.
- [60:34]
Max Boltman
I think what's interesting about Colin is especially for me who I'm probably in like, you know, a lower tier obviously of when I watch these guys, Colin Performed at every big event. And that's kind of coloring how I see him. But you do you pull up the numbers. Corey, you kept talking about how he doesn't score. I'm like, I feel like he was the MVP of like half of these big showcases this year.
- [60:54]
Chris Peters
But it's.
- [60:55]
Max Boltman
It is, you know, it's point per game at the ntdp, which is, you know, to your point, that's produced. It's producing, but it's not big time production. So it makes for an interesting kind of assessment, especially if you've only kind of followed the big events this year. Yeah, we got to pick a number 10 here, guys. So we're at the point where we got to vote.
- [61:14]
Corey Pronman
It feels like we're going with Colin here just based on reading the room.
- [61:18]
Max Boltman
Chris, Colin Scott, Corey Gustafson. I. I think I want to go Gustafson too, but I came into a thinking Colin, but I think Corey kind of won me over with his argument there. So we are at a 2, 2 here. I feel pretty ambivalent here. I'm pretty willing to compromise.
- [61:36]
Chris Peters
But does that.
- [61:37]
Max Boltman
Does either of you two.
- [61:38]
Chris Peters
I mean, interest in changing. They're back to back on my list, so it really doesn't.
- [61:43]
Max Boltman
Like, my thing is, like, I think there's a real world where Augustus is like a 4D. And I think, like, when you talk about top four, but it's the four. Like, there's a little bit of sizzle that's lost there, but
- [61:56]
Scott Wheeler
what if he's like Braden Schneider, Kaden Gooley, like, that's what I mean.
- [62:01]
Max Boltman
Goolies, I think a good.
- [62:02]
Scott Wheeler
That's not a. Not a sexy. It's a good. It's a good player. It's a good player. It's not a sexy top ten pick.
- [62:07]
Max Boltman
A producer. Chris has decided he's going to break the tie for us. He said Cullen is never going to score as much as you want. I'm going multi from.
- [62:15]
Chris Peters
From the.
- [62:15]
Max Boltman
From the rafters.
- [62:17]
Scott Wheeler
He just wants us to wrap this conversation.
- [62:19]
Chris Peters
I think that might be true. Yeah. And I'm fine with that. Thank you, Chris, for saving us from ourselves.
- [62:25]
Max Boltman
And to be clear, this is in tier three, or are we in tier two here?
- [62:29]
Corey Pronman
We're tier two.
- [62:30]
Scott Wheeler
I. I would say tier three for. For all of the. Yeah.
- [62:34]
Max Boltman
Chris.
- [62:35]
Scott Wheeler
I don't know.
- [62:36]
Max Boltman
I.
- [62:36]
Chris Peters
It's three for me.
- [62:37]
Scott Wheeler
I'm not there on Gustafson.
- [62:38]
Max Boltman
All right, so our final board here through all of this deliberation and debate. Tier 1, Gavin McKenna at number 1, Ivar Stenberg at number 2 Chase Reed at number 3, Tier 2 Albert Smiths at number 4, Caleb Malhotra at number 5, Viggo Bjork at number 6, Carson Carls at number 7, Keaton Verhoff at number 8, Dax and Rudolph at number 9 and Tier 3 Malte Gustafson at number 10. The other players we discussed Ethan Belches, Wyatt Cullen and Ryan Lynn. So those would presumably be the next three names in some order that is going to do it for us today. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. I am amazed that we did this in one hour. Fellas, thank you for all the all the great compromise, all the great work and fans. Remember you can catch more of Chris over at Flow Hockey out on his podcast called up much more content from Scott and Corey on the athletic.com we'll talk to you soon.
- [63:40]
Chris Peters
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