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- [00:01]
Max Boltman
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Peter Ball
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Shayna Goldman
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Shayna Goldman
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Max Boltman
Thanks, Mark.
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Shayna Goldman
I'm Mayra Amit, founder of Mochi Health. To find your mochi moment, visit joinmochi.com.
- [00:57]
Aaron Portzline
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- [01:00]
Max Boltman
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Peter Ball
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Peter Ball
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- [01:35]
Kevin Kerr
This is the Athletic Hockey Show.
- [01:50]
Max Boltman
Hey everybody, Max Boltman here alongside Peter Ball for another episode of the Athletic Hockey show, the second in our season preview series. And that means we're going out east to the Metro. And Peter, I'm really glad you're co hosting today because you live in this division. You see it every day. To me from outside, I look at this division and there's a lot of really good teams in it, but all of them have big question marks. The Washington Capitals and what's repeatable the Carolina Hurricanes. Can they get over the hump? Jersey's kind of teased us for the last few years and I want to see something real from them. The attempted revival of the New York Rangers. I guess I want to know as someone who covers this division on the Daily, like what are what's your take on the Metro this year and the stories of that division?
- [02:33]
Peter Ball
Yeah, I think that that you hit it. There's a lot to like with with a lot of the teams in this division and it's just we haven't really seen it with Any of them. We've seen Carolina get to the Eastern Conference final a few times. We've seen them get destroyed. All the times they're there. We haven't seen this Rangers, this Rangers team. We saw them get to the Eastern Conference final two years ago, but then we saw them collapse last year.
- [02:55]
Shayna Goldman
They.
- [02:55]
Peter Ball
The Devils can't. Haven't stayed healthy. The Capitals had a great regular season, but it's hard to know. And then there's kind of these ascending teams like the Blue Jackets, that It's. It's going to be interesting to see if they can take that next jump. And the Islanders are a really interesting case because we. We don't quite know what Matthew Schaefer is going to be yet, but they also are a team that's undergone a lot of change and. And have a lot of kind of freshness that could lead to better results. And then I think you got the two Pennsylvania teams with Pittsburgh and Philly, who are kind of trying to reboot this thing a little and get going in a certain direction. So a lot of interesting storylines, and I'm excited to dig into them all with you.
- [03:39]
Max Boltman
Let's start by going to the team that ran away with this division last year, and for that, we're going to bring in the great Shayna Goldman. Shayna, how's it going?
- [03:46]
Shayna Goldman
It's going well here, crushing through previews. I think we're actually just up to the capital, so, like, I'm. I'm just about ready for this.
- [03:53]
Max Boltman
All right, well, you're at the peak of your. Of your capital's knowledge then here, so let's. Let's start with this. I think the question number one on everyone's mind is, is it repeatable what they did last year? It felt a little bit like a magic carpet ride for them, and they wrote it pretty far, you know, the best record in the conference. But can they do it again?
- [04:10]
Shayna Goldman
Yeah, I think they're going to be a good team again. Like, I don't think they're just going to, like, fall off. Off the face of the earth. And it's like, that was just an aberration. And it was weird. Like, last year, everybody was asking the. And, like, can you trust what the Capitals are doing? And then they kept doing it all season long. Right. Like, I think they have a good foundation. I think Spencer Carberry is an excellent coach. And I rarely say that. Okay. Like, I am the. I'm the person that's like, yeah, they're okay, or it's what. What kind of fit they are not if they're a good or bad coach. Like I outright think he's a good coach and is the right coach for this team. So you're seeing, you know, some of the younger talent come up into important roles. You still have the veteran players there. It's a good combination. There were some really promising signs, I think a five on five, especially last year on both ends of the ice that you go, okay, this team should be in the mix. Do I think they're going to be a first place team? No. And it's less because of them and more because I think the division around them has gotten better.
- [05:03]
Peter Ball
Shane, I think you look at this team and one of the questions I have is about Alex Ovechkin, because you look at last year and clearly he entered the year with a ton of motivation. He wanted to get the goals record. He to wanted he does that. I, I, we don't really know what his future looks like beyond this year. It's the last year of his deal. He's accomplished everything you can in the NHL. What are your expectations for him this season coming off a year that was obviously historic, but also maybe could lead to some, some level of a letdown?
- [05:35]
Shayna Goldman
Yeah, I think last year once he hit that milestone, I think it's easy to see like the air start coming out of the tires and rightfully so. Right. Like he gave it his all, he came back from injury, it was so much work and I think he kind of faded out by the playoffs. I wonder how they're going to manage his workload differently this year. Already we've seen he's a less physical player over the last couple seasons, which really helps him be that 82 game guy plus the postseason. So I wonder this year does he take more time off, do they use him a little bit less or do you not have that same momentum, swing and pressure that you had a year before and now other guys can step up a little bit more and take some of that off his shoulders. I won't be surprised if it's his last year, but I think it's going to be something he has to kind of just like take it day by day and see how he feels across an entire season. Because last year I think the biggest issue was he wasn't at the level he should have been by the time the playoffs came around. So he needs to know how effective he can be across that. And I think the coaches have to learn how to handle that and every player is going to be different. And even Alex Ovechkin every year is going to be different at this point, right? Like we generally don't have players get to this point of their careers and he's someone that's going to break aging curves as it is anyway. So you have to like throw what you generally know out the window and just see how he goes.
- [06:49]
Max Boltman
When I think about all the things that went right for them a year ago, I think several of them are repeatable. I think you're spot on about Spencer Carberry. I think he's shown enough to be the rare like true difference making coach two forwards who I think were a huge part of their success last year. You know, there's really their second line forwards Alexi Protus and Pierre Luc Dubois. Protus kind of came out of nowhere and Dubois kind of been on this every other year trajectory where he's an impact guy one year and he's one of the bigger disappointments in the league the next. And I think to me those are the two guys who, if they can repeat this, that is going to dictate whether the Washington Capitals can repeat their own success. So I guess my question is how much are you buying of what Protest did and what Dubois did as repeatable this year?
- [07:32]
Shayna Goldman
I'm all in on Protus. To me, that's, that is like my favorite player to watch on Washington outside of like the Ovechkin goal race and all of that. It's Protus because I think he is such a good all around threat. He's not going to shoot like that next year. Right? Like he's shooting percentage is so high. But it's interesting, like we did talk to a couple people about him in this year's player tears because we got, you know, some glowing reviews and then we wanted to see if everyone else had like similar opinions. It does feel like he has enough tools to make up for what he might not score in goals next year if his shooting percentage comes back down to earth, which I'd be shocked if it doesn't. It just is like the way it goes. But like this is a player who he's really fast. I think he's a good playmaker too. He's an all around threat. He's someone you want on your penalty kill because he's so disruptive that I really like what he brings to the table. I expect a year of growth from him. But Dubois is definitely one of the more interesting names because you look at his career and you look at he gets this contract now. You have to live up to the hype of being this $8 million player, it's this huge. And then the bar drops so low after that year in la. So anything he did probably would have been progress from that. But now he set the bar for himself at a level I think is attainable, and not just because of him. I think it's that whole second line, Tom Wilson. I think we need to recalibrate what we think of injury timelines. Right. And maybe that was the big difference for him. He was healthy enough to be in the lineup a year sooner, but he wasn't healthy enough to truly be effective. Now he is. And you add in a guy like Connor McMichael into that middle six, and it adds just, like, another element of, like, speed and someone who can shoot the puck a ton. I think he rebuilt his game a lot when he was in the AHL and is so effective now in the NHL. So the combination is going to put dubois in a position to succeed. And that line showed they can go up against top competition. Right. Like, they can be the shutdown line and still chip in offensively. If they can do it again, the Caps are going to be right in that playoff mix.
- [09:19]
Max Boltman
Let me get a little out over my skis on Protus here, because I've had a couple moments watching him where I thought, is this the new generation, Mark Stone? And I don't know if that's too lofty. You're in on that?
- [09:31]
Shayna Goldman
I'm in. I'm all in. I love that comparison. Except he's got. He's going to be a better skater than Stone, so it's going to add, like, a different element of speed to his game that I really like.
- [09:39]
Josh Yoey
Yeah.
- [09:39]
Max Boltman
Whenever I've watched him, that's the. That's the guy that comes to mind.
- [09:41]
Peter Ball
Shana, you mentioned I was interested. You said you don't normally call coaches good coaches.
- [09:46]
Aaron Portzline
Why?
- [09:47]
Peter Ball
Why, in your eyes, is Spencer Carberry a good coach? I mean, I've seen him. That Capitals team two years ago that made the playoffs and got swept in the first round by the Rangers was not a very good hockey team, and he squeezed every ounce of talent out of it. And then last year, obviously, they have an amazing year. Make the second round of the playoffs for the first time since they won the cup, and he looks like one of the best young coaches in the league. But why, in your eyes, is he a good coach?
- [10:13]
Shayna Goldman
I think a big part of it is his AHL experience has helped him work with young players, and I think that's something a lot of coaches get tripped up over. Right. If they're bad defensively. They can't be trusted. And if they only do this, then they can't be here, and then they don't try to build on their skill sets. I feel like in the ahl, you have to deal with your lineup changing more often, and you have to deal with players who are probably a little bit more. More flawed, whether they're later in their careers or earlier. So you have to be more adaptable to that. And you also have to learn how to talk to different players. And I think we're going to see this a lot more now. Coaches coming up the ranks dealing with young players, like, how do they learn to communicate with different players and adjust that along the way? So I think that already gives him an edge over some of the coaches that have been here for so long and done it all over and failed all over and just get handed another opportunity. I think that, like you said, like, he squeezed everything out of that Capitals team two years ago, and I think last year he found ways to maximize his lineup even more. And I think he just knew the right combinations and how to shield maybe, like, some of Chickren's weaknesses. We know he can't play those tough minutes and how to maximize John Carlson and how to get Sandin to take the next step. I think that was huge on defense. And you saw it up front all over, right? Like, figuring out what works, having different options in your back pocket when you need that. When players are out, the machine keeps going. And I think it's just something that it works so well here, especially with so many young talent, you know, young players, which they legitimately need if they're going to do anything. Those are. The players are the most important.
- [11:36]
Max Boltman
All right, Shannon, you're with us for the Atlantic preview. So you know the drill on these. Will the Washington Capitals make the playoffs this season, and will they finish higher or lower in the standings?
- [11:45]
Shayna Goldman
Okay, they're finishing lower in the standings. To me, they're going to finish in the wild card. I think the Devils and the Canes and the Rangers are going to be 1, 2, 3 in the division, but I think they're going to be fighting it out for a wild card spot with Ottawa and Montreal. And, you know, again, if some of these players can repeat what they did last year, I can totally see them making it again. I'd be pretty surprised if they don't at this point. So, yes to finishing lower in the standings, but probably to the playoffs.
- [12:10]
Max Boltman
All right, who's the most important player on this team?
- [12:12]
Shayna Goldman
Okay, I want to go off the board on this one, I'm not going with the forward. I'm going to go with Rasmus Sandin. I think his growth in Washington is huge because when he got there, he could not handle the workload they needed of him. And I think he worked so hard to be able to do that. I think the coaching has a lot to do with that. He can play against the opponent's best, he can eat those minutes and they need someone to do it. Last year in Ferravari got hurt in the playoffs. I think it just threw that the starting six completely out of whack because Chickering had to play tough minutes with John Carlson and now John Carlson. You saw his age like all over the place and they just look so exposed as a result. I think if Sanding can kind of jump out and be that like two or three guy and just take on as much as they need him to, I think that's going to allow the goaltending, which is a little bit erratic, to play to their strengths and I think it's going to add stability so the forwards can play to their two way strengths too.
- [13:03]
Peter Ball
I really like that pick, Shayna. That defensive core in general just has a lot of really interesting younger pieces, I think. I always think Jacob Chikrin is older than he is because he debuted at age 18, but he's only 27. Sandin's only 25. Faravari's around that age too. So it's, it's really important for those guys to continue on on this progression. And I think that you're spot on with your analysis of Sandin's game, both.
- [13:30]
Max Boltman
Of your album book titles. Yesterday, when we had you on for the Atlantic. What do you got for the Washington Capitals? How would you title their season?
- [13:37]
Shayna Goldman
Okay, this is. I feel like I'm going to shock you guys. I'm going with Metamorphosis by Hillary Duff because I think we're about to see, I think we've been seeing since they started retooling. This team is going through changes and I think we're going to see the changing of the guard more this year. I think Ovechkin and Carlsen are still going to be important contributors, but I think everybody else now has to step up. Who knows what's going to happen with Ovechkin next year? Who knows what's going to happen with Carlson a year where his game's going to go. So I think we have to see guys like McMichael and produce BE the guys up front and we need to see that on the back end too. Right. Like, Chickering's got to be able to play more minutes or handle a tougher workload. So I think this is going to be a really interesting year and if they can handle that, then I think this next wave of Caps can be a playoff contender.
- [14:25]
Max Boltman
I think it's interesting we did not spend much time on Logan Thompson or Dylan Strom here in this segment. Does that just kind of speak to the fact that they maybe answered their questions here? Like, I'm buying Dylan Strom at this point. He's done it over and over again. And Logan Thompson looked really, really good.
- [14:39]
Shayna Goldman
Yeah, I'm, I'm all in on Dylan Strom. I don't care how many teams he had to go through to get to the Capitals. I think they know how he's good, how to use him, and I think he deserves way more credit than he gets because, yes, he's the one setting up Ovechkin. I don't think Ovechkin is the easiest player in the world to play with at this point. You have to make up for what he lacks and I think he plays to his strengths really well and I just think it's, he's become this quietly effective one. See, and Thompson, I think was good in Vegas. I think he is an erratic goalie playing style wise. We talked a ton about this in player tiers, so, you know, that's the one, like strike against him. But like, look, he was really good last year and Charlie Lindgren was really good two years ago. So I think their goaltending is going to be fine between the two of them.
- [15:21]
Max Boltman
She is the great Shayna Goldman. Thanks so much for joining us and we'll talk to you again pretty soon here.
- [15:25]
Peter Ball
Thanks, Shayna. All right, now we turn the page to the New York Islanders, a team that has undergone a lot of change since the end of last season. With Lou Lamarello's out, Matthew Darch is in, Patrick was still in charge, but Noah Dobson's gone and, and a pretty interesting draft situation where they got the number one pick in the draft. And we have Scott Wheeler here to talk about all things Islanders. And I think it makes sense to start with that draft pick, Matthew Schaefer. What can we expect of Matthew Schaefer this year, Scott? Will he stick with the Islanders? What are your overall impressions of him? And just kick us off with some Matthew Schaefer talk.
- [16:06]
Scott Wheeler
Well, I just watched back about two hours ago. I just watched back his shifts from his preseason debut because I missed the debut, other than seeing some highlights and lowlights that had scrolled across my Twitter feed and my impression coming out of his preseason debut as well were recording this was that it was kind of what you should expect moving forward from Matthew Schaefer, which is just an elite skater who gets up and down the ice, likes to activate, will track back when he makes some mistakes. The track back on Matt Van Michkov obviously in his debut caught headlines, but that's the bread and butter of his game and I think that's what we can expect moving forward. And I think you can also expect that if he starts the year with the Islanders, which it looks like he will, that there are going to be some mistakes. And there were a couple of those in his preseason debut and he, because of his skating and how much he uses it, he'll occasionally put himself in some bad spots and it's going to be a learning curve. People forget, I think, how hard it is to play in the league. The league's certainly getting younger and we've seen Connor Bedard now lead his team in scoring twice and Macklin Celebrini come in and immediately look like a star who gets an invite to the Olympic camp. Right. And we've seen these young players in waves come through the league now. Auston Matthews, yeah, I mean, it took Jack Hughes and Nathan McKinnon some time, but we've seen them come and quickly become stars and rarely do we see that for defensemen and certainly for defenseman Matthew Schaefer's age, he is just celebrating his 18th birthday. He was one of the youngest players in his draft class, nearly eligible for 2026, et cetera, et cetera. We've talked a lot about how little hockey he's actually played in the last year, but we've seen, I mean it's Simon Nemech is a second overall pick now entering his third season in North America and his six, I believe, sixth pro season of hockey. And Simon Nemetsch is still trying to figure it out. So to expect the world of Matthew Schaefer at 17, I think is expecting too much. Even first overall picks in recent years have gone back, Owen power went back, etc. Right. So their patience will be important there. There are going to be some mistakes. I wouldn't rule out a return to, to the Erie Otters and to the ohl. I wouldn't rule out him playing for Canada at the World Juniors, potentially being the captain of Team Canada at the World Juniors. I think all of those are things that the Islander should continue to consider, but it has to be a day by day thing with him and I think you give him a look at the start of the season because why not? And if the skating is so good and can impact the play in so many ways, then maybe you consider keeping him as sort of a unique case study as a 17, 18 year old defenseman in the NHL as a rookie and we'll see whether he runs the power play and I'm sure there will be some ups and downs if he sort of sticks around. Tony D' Angelo obviously gives them the natural PP1 QB, so maybe that means that Schaefer gets to run PP2 and kind of ease into it, but it's an interesting situation and they've got a difficult decision to make in the next couple of weeks.
- [19:09]
Peter Ball
When I look at this roster I see a forward group that actually I really like. If they're healthy, I think they made some interesting additions over the off season and they've got a good forward group, the D pairs. Even with Schaefer there, that's where it gets a little thin. And especially if Schaefer, you're kind of tempering the expectations a little bit because of his age, understandably. But what do you make of this decord that the Islanders are going to be rolling out night one?
- [19:39]
Scott Wheeler
Well, it's a bit of an eclectic mix which I think is what you were hinting at. You've got Adam Pellick and Ryan Pollock who have been the stalwarts, right, have been the first pairing first, second, third guy in the in the pecking order after Noah Dobson and have been that very successfully but are both now on the wrong side of it age wise and are getting older and shouldn't be expected to be a first pairing in the NHL or your number one and number two defenseman in the NHL at this stage of their careers. Then you've got the Tony d' Angelo experiment which seems like a constant experiment as successful as it was for them last year. And I think he surprised a lot of people with the way that he held his own defensively and obviously didn't surprise anybody by how productive he was offensively, but they played him big minutes. I'm not sure whether Tony D' Angelo can be trusted to play the 24, 25 minutes that they had him rolling out for late last season for a full 82 game season. I think you're in for some really tough nights if that's what you're counting on. And then you've got Alexander Romanov who's a good player, but not a great one, and you've got Schaefer and the likes to sort of round it out. So without Dobson, there's a clear hole. I think that goes without saying. And then you've got. I think they've got decisions to make on a lot of these guys and what direction they want to take. I know Matthew Darsh has talked about sort of turning it around quickly, not entering into a proper rebuild, but I think they may face some harsh realities here over the next couple of seasons and have to make difficult decisions on whether it's Pelek or Pollock, whether it's Bo Horvat, whether it's Anders Lee, whether it's Matthew Barzel. I'm not sure what they do with all of those guys. Some guys, some of them have to stick around because you do need to hit the floor, and you do need good players and guys like Casey Suzikis that have been around forever. It would make sense to keep around John Gabriel Peugeot, see how many years he has left. But it's kind of a weird group, top to bottom. I know you said you like the forwards, but I have questions about a lot of the forwards and what will Jonathan Truang look like there? And they've got the two Russians and Tsiplakov, who had a really promising year last year, and now Maxim Shabunov, who has come over and wowed them in preseason with his skill level, but is ultimately a 5859, winger who we don't know what. We don't really know what kind of impact he'll be able to make at the NHL level coming off of, obviously some pretty impressive numbers in the khl, so I think there's interest there. But I think Emil Hyneman's a good young player that they obviously acquired as part of the Dobson transaction. But this feels to me like a team that needs to rebuild more than a team that should be staying the course. And that's the hardest thing to do as a manager when you've got a Sorokin and you've got a Barzell and you've got some really good players. The temptation, I think, is to try to push and make the playoffs around those players and get. Maybe get younger and better while you do it, but that's a tough needle to thread.
- [22:33]
Max Boltman
Yeah, I. I think that kind of leads right into my biggest question on the Islanders, which is like, what is this? What does a successful year even look like for this group in those constraints?
- [22:40]
Scott Wheeler
Right.
- [22:41]
Max Boltman
I. I agree that Bo Horvat and Matt Barzel and Anders Lee still have really good hockey in them. But for a team that's in the Islanders spot, like I don't even know that it's, it's in their best interest to, to chase a wild card here.
- [22:53]
Scott Wheeler
No, I tend to agree. When I've been thinking about the Islanders in prep for this pod, that's what I is that I think what's best for the Islanders is probably a season where it bottoms out for them and that kind of makes the decision for them in terms of entering a rebuild. Sort of coming to the harsh realization that Barzell and Horvat and Sorokin aren't enough and that it might be hard to add around them while trying to get younger and that maybe just getting younger for a few years is the play and building excitement and selling excitement around Schaefer and Victor Edlin who they draft drafted and K Sean Hison who they drafted. I know K Sean took a tough sort of knee on knee hit in his preseason debut the other night, which is a difficult way for him to start his post draft season. But they've now got some, some real prospects. Callum Ritchie's knocking on the door. There are some good young players there that they need to be prioritizing and you, you need to have veterans around. But I tend to lean your way Max, which is, and I don't know whether that's what you were hinting at, but maybe, maybe the best outcome is that that it comes off the tracks a little bit this year and that they're one of the weaker teams in, in the Metro and they're, they're sort of drafting high again.
- [24:05]
Peter Ball
I do think that the, internally within the Islanders, they, they want to be a playoff team this year. Like their goal is to be competitive. Whether or not that is the best course of action for the franchise long term, that's, that's to be determined. It'll be interesting to see. But now let's, let's head into some rapid fire. Last year The Islanders had 82 points in 82 games and were sixth in the Metro division. Do you think they will be better or worse in terms of division finish this year and do you think they will make the playoffs?
- [24:39]
Scott Wheeler
I think if, if Sorokin plays at a Vesna caliber level, they're probably better because he can bring any team to better than sort of 500. I think if they've got reasonable pieces around them. If Sorokin is just okay, I think they're probably worse and I think he probably the most likely outcome is that Sorokin is probably somewhere in between okay and Vesna level. And in that scenario, I think it's. They're probably going to be right around 82 points, but I would guess that they're below. I would, I would sooner bet that they're below 82 and that at the deadline they sell off a guy or two. Even if it's not one of those core pieces we talked about. Maybe it's a Pageo, maybe it's flipping a Duclair those types of pieces and, and they're probably worse. I just look at the, look at the division around them, I look at the conference around them. I think the Penguins are going to be worse, but I think the Bruins and Sabers want to be better. I think the Flyers want to be better. And not everybody can be better. And I wonder if the Islanders are one of the teams with the loss of Dobson, with sort of trying to get younger around some of these guys. Whether it's a Heinemann or a Simon Holmstrom or Matthew Schaefer or folding Richie into the fold. I wonder whether that gets in their way of truly trying to, to sort of push for the playoffs. And I just don't know whether they have another nine points in them. They were, they finished nine points back of Montreal. I think there's a chance the bar is actually higher than the 91 points that got Montreal in last year as well. And if it is higher than that, they suddenly you've got double digit points to make up. And I don't see where those points are coming from. If you're the Islanders.
- [26:14]
Max Boltman
Do I take that to mean you're picking Ilya Sorokin as the most important player on the Islanders?
- [26:19]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, I think the, When I knew that that question was coming in the rapid fire segment, I think Sorokin is the most important. I think Schaefer is obviously the most interesting. Whether whether Schaefer is in Long island for all 82 games or not, I still think he's, he's where everybody's eyes should be, whether it's in Erie or, or, or on the island. So yeah, those, those are the two guys. Sorokin, I mean, the Islanders are going to go as Sorokin goes. There's, there's no, I don't think there's any question about that.
- [26:49]
Max Boltman
If you had to give a title to their season, what would you go with?
- [26:53]
Scott Wheeler
Oh, well, I've been going with music titles for this and I, I picked out two. Two that sort of speak to the different directions they could go. So the first one was Stuck in the middle with you, this sort of legendary 1970s song, Stuck in the midd, which is kind of feels like where they are. And maybe the with you is now with Schaeffer. Like they've got a decision to make on which direction they want to go. And the other was Go your own way by Fleetwood Mac, which feels like the direction they should go, which is a different one. And going your own way, being Matthew Schaeffer's way and building around this young group and investing in Eklund and in Keisha and in Richie and sort of going about it that way. So those were sort of my two to speak to the different paths that they potentially have in front of them.
- [27:41]
Max Boltman
I can only ever hear Stuck in the middle with you while picturing the Reservoir Dog scene in my head. So thanks for that, Scott, and thank you for all of the great stuff on the New York Islanders here. Let's go now to the other New York team, the New York Rangers, and our newest athletic NHL writer, Vince Mercagliano. Vince, welcome to the family. First of all and secondarily, welcome to the hot seat. You're walking right into one of the most interesting seasons in hockey. Obviously you've been on the Rangers already. You know all about this. So I'm going to ask you before I let you and Peter Cook here, you two both know so much on the Rangers. From the outside. When I look at the Rangers, I see a team that is pushing all the chips in on a. On a win. Now core. Do you think that's going to work out for them?
- [28:23]
Vince Mercagliano
That is. That is the big question. You're starting me off with the, with the really big stuff here. Do I think it's going to work out for them? I have many reasons to be skeptical. I would lean to toward a no. I am very curious to see how it works out with this new coaching staff. In particular, I. I'm wondering how this team will receive Mike Sullivan. I actually just had a conversation at the rink about 20 minutes ago before I got home with Mika Zabanajad about that very topic. The, the impact of Mike Sullivan, particularly his systems and the way that he wants this team to play we've seen in the past. Actually, I just did this number crunch the other day. This core does have the tendency to get a pretty significant bump in their first year with the new coach. If you combine their records with Gerard Gallant his first season a few years ago and then Peter Lavilette that year, they won the President's Trophy a year or so ago. It's like 107 and 47. So like they have performed really, really well in their first year under a new coach. They do seem to get a jolt from that. So I feel like there's a decent chance they're going to bounce back, but how good they can be, are they still a legitimate Stanley cup contender? I have pretty serious doubts about that. And with the state of this core, where they stand with guys like Mika Zabanajad and Artemi Panarin and Vincent Trocheck and J.T. miller, the guys that are really going to have to carry the hats for this team and be the players that they lean on significantly. Those guys are all 32 or older now, so they're not getting any younger. They're still maybe in their primes, but at least on the backside of their primes. So this window I think could close pretty quickly for this team if they don't maybe hit on some development guys coming up and also maybe find ways to fortify this roster from the outside. So there's a lot of questions swirling around them right now. I feel like the window where it was most wide open, it's now kind of a little bit closed, but there's a sliver still there if things click the right way this season under Sullivan.
- [30:21]
Peter Ball
And I think there's there's also, we're going to have a story running that will have already run by the time this podcast episode comes out about the importance of the 2026 summer for the Rangers, where like you said, Max, they have have pushed their chips in. They're in a win now position, which in a lot of ways seems a little foolish because of the age of some of the players on their roster. But if they're able to capitalize on a 2026 free agent class, they could potentially get kind of a bailout in the form of a Conor McDavid or a Kirill Kaprizov or a Jack Eichel. Now, the risk with all of that is that by the time this episode drops, all three of those guys could have extensions in their with their current teams and the Rangers could be left with a ton of cap space and no one to spend it on, which we saw plenty of teams in that situation this past summer and kind of scraping the bottom of the barrel for to try and salvage something with it. So they're in a really interesting spot I think, both in the short and the long term. I think I agree with Vince that we'll see a Sullivan bump it's funny though, because if you look at like the first year of Galant, like the players that were there that season are gone now. Like, it's not even the same core, really. It has obviously Panera and Sabanajad, Fox, but a lot of the.
- [31:41]
Vince Mercagliano
I mean, a big one, just Dickens.
- [31:43]
Peter Ball
A big one, and he carried.
- [31:44]
Vince Mercagliano
The first year of Gallant was Igor's best year.
- [31:47]
Peter Ball
I voted him for heart that year. Yeah, I voted him number one in my heart about that.
- [31:51]
Vince Mercagliano
He's the biggest X factor. Like, if you're giving the Rangers a puncher's chance at all, it's because of Igor, like, his playoff performance. If you look at the last four years, obviously they weren't in it last year, but the three years prior, you know his numbers. Whether you're looking at just the standard numbers or the deeper analytics, he grades out as probably the best performing goalie in the NHL over that span. So if anybody is going to give them a chance, it's Igor. The problem is what was exposed last year is there are so many problems in front of him defensively. This is really not a very good team. That was kind of a topic of conversation between Sullivan and I today and how is he going to try to fix that? But there are a lot of warts. But Igor is still there, and that is a feather that they're going to have in their cap for a while.
- [32:34]
Peter Ball
Yeah, I think he's. I think if you look at last year, his. His numbers on the surface were not anything incredible, but if you watch that team like Vince and I did all year, you saw it was. There were games where it was just odd man rush after odd man rush after odd man rush. So his save percentage could have been 10 points higher with competent defense in front of him like he was. He was really left out to try on a number of nights for the. For the Rangers.
- [33:01]
Vince Mercagliano
I voted him for team mvp, I think. Did you as well last year, Peter?
- [33:04]
Peter Ball
I believe I did too.
- [33:06]
Vince Mercagliano
Yeah. Like. Like they ask all the media members at the end of the season to vote on team mvp and Igor was my pick just because I think things could have been even worse if it weren't for him. And I know the numbers on the surface don't look great, but you have to put it in the context of, okay, how are they playing in front of him? And the Rangers, if you grade out as far as odd man rushes against one of the worst teams in the league, as far as high danger chances against one of the worst teams in the league, like they are Terrible at protecting the slot, at protecting the net front. The turnovers through the neutral zone are a massive problem for this team. It has been that way for years. They have a lot of players, especially Panarin, that are kind of high risk guys, but a lot of times when you take those risks in vulnerable positions, it can come back on you pretty quick. And Sullivan brought that up today. I asked him a little bit about the systems and how he, the style that he wants this team to play, and he brought it back to those. Peter and I both observed on the first day of training camp. A lot of the players are wearing these shirts that say it says BS with a big X through it on the back of the shirt. Basically, no BS is what they want this year. And I think there is some meaning as far as the drama that they dealt with off the ice last year that they don't want to talk about so much. But the way that they're framing it right now is they want them to play this no BS style. They want to cut out those silly turnovers. They want to play more of that north south game. They want to be more of a menace on the forecheck. They want to do a better job of protecting those high danger areas on the ice now. So it's nice to say all those things. Do you have the personnel to pull that off? And that's going to be, I think, the big question surrounding this team going into the new season. But they're certainly talking about wanting to clean up some of those areas that Peter and I are talking about.
- [34:47]
Max Boltman
You talked about the way the Rangers have responded to new coaches in recent history. But I am very curious, like what, what a fresh start might do for Mike Sullivan, who had, you know, I'm sure he was as energized as ever to be in Pittsburgh and coach Sidney Crosby. But you're in one place for a decade. I think it changes scenery can bring some kind of new, new life to a coach like that.
- [35:06]
Vince Mercagliano
Yeah, he's downplayed it a little bit when we've asked him about it. And listen, I don't have a point of reference. Like, I didn't watch him coach practices in Pittsburgh, so I don't know what his demeanor was like there. But Peter, I'm sure you would say the same thing. What we've observed so far in training camp is a guy who's been pretty loud, been pretty involved. You know, we've heard him get on guys in certain situations, but we've also seen him be pretty active and pretty positive in a lot of situations as well. So he seems to have a little jump in his step and seems to be treating this like an opportunity that is very much energizing him right now. So I think there's something to that as well. And this is a coach that the Rangers have coveted for years. You know, the Rangers are pretty secretive about what they're thinking internally, but I think it was pretty well known that Chris Drury, the general manager, really wanted Mike Sullivan for a long time. And I think in previous head coaching hires, like when they hired La Violette a couple years ago, that dragged out for a while because I think he was waiting to see what was happening with other coaches around the league who might shake free. And I very much believe, and I've heard this as well, that at the top of that list was Mike Sullivan. So Chris Jury's had his eye on him for a long time. They have connections dating back to their time at Boston University. They have connections through their mutual work with Team usa. And so I think of all the coaches that Chris Jury has hired, and this is now the third coach in four years that he's hired, Sullivan is the guy who I think he feels best about and the team feels best about coming into the new season.
- [36:34]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah.
- [36:34]
Peter Ball
And the one thing with Sullivan is it's going to come down. And I think he's a phenomenal coach. We've seen that time and time again. But the talent on his roster is really what's going to make it, because in Pittsburgh these past few seasons, it hasn't been pretty, and I don't think that was Mike Sullivan's fault. Vince, we've talked plenty of about this at the rink the past few days, but do you think the Rangers will finish higher or lower in the standings than they did last year? And will they make the playoffs?
- [37:01]
Vince Mercagliano
We just had to do this for our Metro Division preview. I was going back and forth between picking the Rangers for fourth or fifth in the division. I mean, maybe I could see them rising up to third.
- [37:12]
Aaron Portzline
Third.
- [37:13]
Vince Mercagliano
I. I do think that they are going to perform more consistently. I could see them having a better record. But I also think that in some ways the Metro is. Is getting more competitive. I really like Columbus this year. I very much look at them as a team on the rise. I. I love the young talent that they have. I feel like that lineup, especially the forward group, is looking really balanced right now. Zach Warinski. We saw what kind of a breakout season he had last year. So Columbus is on the rise. We saw Washington have kind of A resurgence last year. I think a lot of people feel like Carolina and New Jersey are probably the best teams in that division top to bottom. And it wouldn't even surprise me if the Islanders are a team that's a little more competitive this coming season. I think they'll probably finish behind the Rangers, but for me I would say it's either probably going to be the same place that they finish in the standings even though they might have a better record or maybe a spot or two higher. I kind of look at them in that 3 to 5 range in the division.
- [38:08]
Peter Ball
Yeah, I've kind of been looking at them conference wise as I've been. I've been telling people they'll be between 7th and 10th in the conference. So 50 coin flip on if they make the playoffs. But I don't know if they'll be one of the best teams in the division.
- [38:20]
Max Boltman
Sounds like they'll qualify for the NBA play in then.
- [38:23]
Peter Ball
Yeah. And if Gary Bettman had to say maybe the NHL play in.
- [38:27]
Max Boltman
That's right.
- [38:28]
Vince Mercagliano
I wouldn't be surprised at all if they make the playoffs. But the expectations have definitely been lowered from where they were at this time last year. Like I, I don't know if in a seven game series, unless Igor is absolutely on fire again, that is the X factor here. But in a seven game series, like the very upper echelon teams like a Florida for example, I just don't see them having the horses to be able to hang with the team like that.
- [38:50]
Max Boltman
Next question is who's their most important player? I think you've been laying the framework here for, for a pretty obvious answer.
- [38:56]
Vince Mercagliano
Yeah, most important it's Igor hands down. I mean, you know there are like, if you want to talk about who is critical from a lineup standpoint, who do they really need to take a step forward? I think there's a lot of different names that we could bring up in that conversation. Mika Zabanajad having a bounce back season is going to be critical for them. Adam Fox being able to elevate his level back to the point where we, we saw it earlier in his career I think is going to be really important. Alexi Lafreniere is a huge X factor for this team. They don't have Chris Kreider anymore so they're going to need some wingers to step up and Lafreniere is at the top of that list for me. You know there's bottom six questions we could talk about like who's going to be the third line center. I think is a big question mark for this team. But as far as most important, that's Igor for me, hands down.
- [39:41]
Max Boltman
All right, and then let's close with this one. If you had to give the Rangers season a title as if it were a book or an album, what are you going with?
- [39:49]
Peter Ball
It's Miller Time.
- [39:51]
Vince Mercagliano
It's Miller time. That's a good one, Peter. I was going to say something like, like, can they salvage this? Can. Can they find a way to overcome some of the problems that we've talked about, the aging core, all the things that have kind of been swirling around this team, including the off ice drama in the last year or so, can they find a way to. To put that stuff behind them and give this core at least one last good run? Because this is the last year of the contract for Artemi Panarin, we don't know what his future holds. He's been a really important player for this team for a number of years. It feels like we talked about earlier, that window has kind of closed. But can they find a way to make one last push at making something out of this before things really could change a lot more going into next season?
- [40:39]
Max Boltman
Great stuff, Vince. Thanks for coming on. We're going to take a quick break right there. Today's episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. World Mental Health Day is coming up October 10th. And this year, Better Help is shining the spotlight on therapists, people who truly make the world a better place. BetterHelp therapists have helped over 5 million people worldwide on their mental health journeys. That's millions of stories, millions of journeys, and behind every one is a therapist who showed up, listened, and helped someone take a step forward. Moments in therapy, like the right question, a safe space to close, cry or a small win can change lives. This World mental health day, BetterHelp is honoring those connections and the therapists who make them possible, while showing how easy it is to get guidance from a licensed therapist online with better help. If something is keeping you up at night, talking to someone can help. And we want to help people realize that the right therapist can change everything. BetterHelp therapists work according to a strict code of conduct and are fully licensed in the US This World Mental Health Day we're celebrating the therapists who've helped millions of people take a step forward. If you're ready to find the right therapist for you, BetterHelp can help you start that journey. Our listeners get 10% off their first month@betterhelp.com TheAthleticHockey that's betterhelp.com the Athletic hockey.
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Scott Wheeler
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- [43:17]
Max Boltman
All right, we are back and we are joined now by the legendary Columbus Blue Jackets beat writer here at the Athletic Aaron Ports line. And Aaron, it was such a fun year last year. I mean, the Blue Jackets were one of the best stories in the NHL, from Zach Warrenski to the rallying around Johnny Goudreau. And I think the big question that Peter and I were talking about as we prepped for this is like, how much of this is going to happen again? We know there's some, you know, really good young players, they want to take a step, but at least for me, it's. Is Marchenko as good as he was last year? Is Dmitry Voronkov as good as he was last year? Like, how much of what you saw last year do you expect to see again?
- [43:50]
Aaron Portzline
Yeah, yeah, it's a great question and I don't think anybody really can answer it right now. The thing that I think it's lost a little bit with Marchenko in particular is he didn't, he didn't just have 31 out of nowhere last year. He had 25 the year before and I think 21 the previous year. Right. So there's, there's sort of been a history of him being able to finish. Certainly took it to the next level last year. I mean, the center play for him, of course, having Monahan was a huge part of that. I think he's, I think we can say He's a legit 25 to 35 goal scorer with the potential to go higher.
- [44:28]
Kevin Kerr
I.
- [44:28]
Aaron Portzline
There's nothing about Adam Fantilli's 31 goal season that felt like a fluke to me. Really. The goal production probably started like 20, 25 games into the season and then he was just. It was explosive that he scored it like a 45 goal pace after that. This is an incredibly talented kid. So does he get to 31 for sure? I don't think we can say that, but I think he's gonna. He's gonna score goals every year with some fluctuation, but I don't think any part of that was a fluke. Veronkov has. Has been productive. He got top line time last year, which is where a lot of that boost comes from. I think all of these numbers for all of these guys. Ken Johnson's another guy who sort of bloomed a little bit last year, but does he too has a history of production. If the power play. I feel like I should have this like on a save get on the computer because we've been saying this for about 12 years now. If the power play can just be sort of in the mushy middle of the NHL, they would. They would be. They would pick up even more. It was 22nd last year, which is the highest it's been in a long time, but had some real highs and lows, especially when Monahan went out of the lineup. So I don't.
- [45:47]
Peter Ball
I.
- [45:48]
Aaron Portzline
Some guys are going to back up. I think there's. That everybody looks at every year and sort of adds 10% to everybody. And we know that's not going to happen. Somebody's going to take a step back. Some other. Some players are going to take steps back. There will be injuries, there will be wrinkles. But none of the young guys producing to me felt flukish or unsustainable last year. I think one name to keep in mind, I really got left behind last year. Among the young players who has potential to. To sort of join that crowd is Igor Chinikov, who is this talented outside of. Of Fantilly is about as talented as any of them and between most of the injuries hasn't been able to stay in the lineup. This summer made maybe the worst, least effective where you know, I was like, I demand to be traded and everybody kind of yawned. Anyways, he's showed up at camp earlier than the other Russians. He's been skating his. His ass off. They've had a meeting. Everybody seems to be content and he's in the Top six, which is kind of where everybody thought he was going to be. So there's, there's talent here that I, I think people learned about a little bit last year, but I think other people may still be not giving it its full regard. And we haven't even mentioned the Monahans, the Warensky's, the, the Jenner who has 20 goals every year, when every year people think he's going to end up on the third line, myself included, and he still scores 20, 25 goals. There's the jam here.
- [47:24]
Max Boltman
Yeah, the ultimatum Chinikov gave them was trade me or else I'm going to come to camp in the best shape of my life and have the best year of my career. You make the decision. I agree with you on Fintelly. I'm really excited by him and I actually don't even know if we've talked enough about what it means for a 20 year old center to score 30 goals in the NHL like he did last year. But as someone who sees it every day, what were the biggest differences that you noticed in his game that allowed him to do that?
- [47:47]
Aaron Portzline
Well, I think the slow start. He's even said this was attributable to the way that the previous season ended the Achilles injury. He was starting to get some traction in his rookie year and then that happened and it set him back. You know, he's such a driven, smart, motivated kid who just has an air about him. It came across a little as arrogance early on in his career. I don't know if his game's just grown into it where it doesn't seem like that anymore, but he's always, he's believed, he's never had a doubt about his own ability. One of those guys carries himself with a lot of confidence. I think he's also really smart and it was smart enough last year to sit on the bench during camp, during practices, even during games when he's, when he's not on the ice and watch Sean Monahan, who is me in my mind, one of the more underrated players in the National Hockey League. The subtle plays, the patience. Defensively, I think Fantilly would be the first to tell you that he was in such a hurry defensively that he took himself out of position rather than just sort of breathing in the moment and being trusting. His spacing on the ice, his placement on the ice and his ability to cover. He picked up all kinds of stuff from Monahan last year and I think he's gotten stronger and I think he's also been beneficiary Last season when Monahan went down, they had really no other choice. They put him in the top spot. He produced like crazy. The team really, really struggled, as you knew they would. But Monahan's production and his ability to hold down the Ford as the. As the top center in Monahan's absence, I think was a. A responsibility that's really beneficial for a guy like that. It put a lot on his plate and it continued to sort of push him. But he's one of those guys. I think when you look back at that draft, and this is nothing against Carlson or certainly not Bedard, I think both of them are going to be really good players. But for what the Blue Jackets needed, both in personality and in position, I think that draft where he fell to them at three, is going to end up being, when we look back, a very pivotal time, very pivotal day for this franchise.
- [50:17]
Peter Ball
Makes sense. When I look at this roster, I was impressed with it last year, the youth. And we haven't even mentioned Matajek, who had a really nice rookie year as a defenseman, which is hard to do. The questions I have are mainly about health. You mentioned Monahan missed time last year. We got a full Zach Warrenski season last year, but in the past he's dealt with some injuries and goaltending health. It's hard to predict. We don't know what's going to happen there. Goaltending, though. You get a look at these goalies every day. Where do you see they are in the goaltending department and do they have enough to be a legitimate playoff team with these guys they have slotted to go.
- [50:59]
Aaron Portzline
Yeah, that's kind of the question of. Of the season. Really. I was going to say question of camp, but we're not going to know at the end of camp really where this is going. Let's just speak frankly. Elvis Mirzleekins has been a below average goalie for, well below average goalie for three seasons now, and he really hasn't had anybody to push him. And I think what's changed here, and it could really benefit them, they hope it does anyways, is that Jet Grieves, who finished so strong last year and really has never looked overwhelmed in the NHL, has always looked very good, very sure of himself, very smooth. He took off, just won the last five games, almost got them into the playoffs by himself as the player of the week or month in the league. This is going to be a guy that can challenge Elvis Merzleekins for starts for number one status as he has not been Challenged in way too long, frankly. So that's a good thing. Is, is Elvis ready to be better? Is he going to be better with Jet pushing him? Can't say. Does he handle it well if he does lose the top job? Not sure of that either, to be honest with you. But we also don't know if Jed Greaves is ready for a full NHL season. He's shown sign that, signs that he is, but he hasn't done it yet. So it has to be a question mark. This team has scored. They were tied for seventh in the league last year in goals, which would surprise a lot of people. And what they were able to do last year is outscore their own defensive woes and their goaltending on a lot of different nights. That's no way to get into the playoffs and really no way to have much success once there. So that has to get better. Their defense is still kind of a mismatch, but the question looming over this team is their goaltending. And I think there are a lot of people within the organization that are putting their fingers, twisting their fingers together and hoping that it's Jack Greaves that can take over because they've seen what the other guy can do when given the reins here and quite frankly, it hasn't been good enough.
- [53:09]
Peter Ball
Let's, let's get into the rapid fire. We'll start with this. Will Columbus finish higher or lower than they did in the standings last year and will they make the playoffs?
- [53:20]
Aaron Portzline
So I think they will finish higher, which means I do think they'll make, they'll make the playoffs because they missed the playoffs by two points last year. I do think they're a playoff team in the East. I think the Metro is really, really hard to get a read on. I think you've got Carolina, New Jersey, probably Washington at the top. I have no idea what to do with Rangers, Blue Jackets, Islanders in the next pecking order. I think the Blue Jackets could finish anywhere from third to sixth in the Metro. But I, it feels like they're heading in the right direction to me. So I would say yes, better and yes, playoffs.
- [53:56]
Peter Ball
I was, I was talking to some people the other day and I said, I don't know which one, but one of Ottawa, Columbus or Montreal is going to be really, really good this year, like a legitimate playoff team. But I just have, have no clue. Could be the Blue Jackets, who knows?
- [54:11]
Aaron Portzline
You know what else I've been going back and forth on? Like, I think it's maybe teams are. People are excited to put them down at the bottom I have no misgivings about the Penguins being like what they were, but I don't think they're this dregs of the league. I think they may want to be. If they want McKenna, I think that might be what they're going for. I don't think they're bad enough to get there. I think any team that starts with Crosby, Malkin, Latang, Carl's. There's some talent on that rust. Like, I don't think they're the dregs of the league. I really don't. I think they're a team that's going to hover around that eight spot for a long time unless they're just completely disassembled. But I don't think that happens until the trade deadline. So I don't know what to expect. I'm old enough to admit I don't know what to expect.
- [54:57]
Peter Ball
You're wiser than all of us. That's right.
- [55:00]
Max Boltman
We talked about a lot of guys here. Is there one that you would call the most important player to the Blue Jackets season?
- [55:06]
Aaron Portzline
You know, there's. There's. That phrase trips me up a little bit. But I think there's. There's a player on which a lot hinges. And it's. It's Damon Severson. Like he's not going to be Warrensky, he's not going to score goals. He's not that big of an impact player. But he's got six years left on his. On his contract. Right? Provorov's contract is beefy enough that it makes Severson's look a little bit better. But they need Severson. Listen, they're kind of a mess on the back end. Fabro and Warrenski have worked well. The second pair last year was Matejuk with Proverov going to his offside on the right. Not perfect, but it was the best they had last year and they were pretty good when those top four were in the lineup. I think what they're trying to do this year is they're trying to get Severson going. And they've had Provorov with Severson, which was the idea all along, on the second pair. And they've had Matejuk lined up anyways. He hasn't skated yet because he's got a groin injury. But Matejuk good. Branson on the third pair. They think Matechuk can provide some mobility to that pair and let them succeed. That Seberson did not look good last night, especially in the first period. Just seems like he's Got a million things going on in his head and is way overthinking this. And I don't. They've tried everything. Maybe they've tried too hard. But if that guy figures it out and just becomes a solid second pair defenseman, it doesn't have to live up to the contract. No one's expecting 40 points out of him. He's not on the power play. He's going to kill penalties. It just makes smart, quick plays. And first do no harm. Like the medical oath, they would be content with that. Otherwise, it's going to be a scramble and they're going to have to move guys to their offsides. They're going to have to move Matejek up and they may again struggle to defend. They've allowed way too many goals. That's the one thing that needs to be cut down their goals against. And I think. I don't think that's just the goaltending. It is the goaltending, but not just the goaltending. The forwards have to do a better job defending, which I think they've started to do, but that defense has to.
- [57:27]
Kevin Kerr
Get a lot sharper.
- [57:28]
Max Boltman
Some NHL coach is going to have heard this and is going to put first do not do no harm on the wall for their defense. Not a bad way to live. Last one. 40. What would you give as the title for the Columbus season this year?
- [57:42]
Aaron Portzline
I was thinking about this earlier. To me, how many words do I have? How many words do I get here? They can score. Can they become that? Can they become a defensive team? Can they win two to one games or do they have to keep winning four to two, four to three games? I'm just. I think that is where the traction needs to be, where the growth needs to be this season. I think last season was an incredibly informative year. I think they're going to be better this year just because Evison knows the players. Players know Evison. Like, this is the first guy. This is the first coach in successive season Since, I think 22. That's how freaking tumultuous it's been here. So, yeah, they can score. Can they defend?
- [58:36]
Max Boltman
All right, thank you so much, Porty. We really appreciate this and have a great rest of your day.
- [58:40]
Aaron Portzline
Awesome, guys. Well, thanks for having me, as always.
- [58:43]
Max Boltman
Great stuff as always, Porty. Unfortunately, we couldn't find anyone named Hughes to do our devil segment for us. So, Peter, do you mind just hopping in and tackling New Jersey for us here?
- [58:53]
Peter Ball
I. I think I can do just that.
- [58:55]
Max Boltman
All right, so we got Peter Hughes now On here, Peter Hughes ball from, from the Athletic. And Peter, I mentioned at the very top like this is a team that has teased us, they've tantalized us, they have shown us flashes of being kind of that next exciting young up and coming team. And it's just for various reasons has tended to kind of fall apart as the years gone on. Oftentimes injury is a big part of that. I guess my question here is, is there any reason to believe that this is the year that it all finally comes together for the New Jersey Devils?
- [59:22]
Peter Ball
Totally. I mean I think we, we saw last year they were a good team when they were healthy and then they just were so depleted by injuries by the time the playoffs rolled around, they didn't really have a chance against a good, a really good Carolina team. But I think even in that Carolina series you look at the Devil's top players I thought did pretty well against the the Hurricanes best players. Nico he share was great. Jesper Brat held his own. Timo Meyer had some moments and so you've got kind of the guys that can hang with those guys. That team just wasn't deep enough in part because of injuries both on the blue line and Jack Hughes going down. And I think maybe didn't take as all in a deadline approach as they would have otherwise because of how depleted they were by injuries. So I think this totally could be the year they just really have to stay healthy and Jack Hughes has to stay healthy. He's been the guy who, he's gone down with shoulder injuries the past two seasons but when he's healthy he is one of the very best centers in the league and he's the type of player you need. Nico Hechir is a center you can win a lot of games with Selkie contending player and then they've got good wingers around those guys maybe they could use a little more. But that's where I think you look at the deadline as a time to potentially upgrade. But this is a really good hockey team on paper and it's all about staying healthy.
- [60:43]
Max Boltman
When I think about the Devils right now, one of the strengths, ironically, you know, for a team that was all, you know, speed, skill for a while there, like their blue line has really rounded into form as being a talented and deep blue line. We're recording this the week of September 22nd. So Luke Hughes as we speak has not yet technically signed him his contract but I do think at some point, you know, Luke Hughes is going to be a huge part of this blue line here and beyond him, you know, Dougie Hamilton, Brett Pesci, Brendan Dillon, Jonathan Kovacevic, Jonas Seigenthaler. By the way, I haven't mentioned number two overall pick Simon Nemetz or Seamus Casey, who I think whenever he's been up has been really good. I guess my question, Peter, is like, is this blue line, A, where, where do you rank it among the NHL And B, at some point like this feels like a ripe opportunity for them to trade from, to get even better.
- [61:32]
Peter Ball
Yeah, I, I and they also have a number 10 overall pick, I believe from two years.
- [61:38]
Josh Yoey
Yes.
- [61:39]
Max Boltman
Right.
- [61:39]
Peter Ball
Yeah, yeah. Who's one of the top prospects in the league. So they've got a lot of not only good defensemen, but really young defensemen and promising defensemen on the up and up. So I don't have the whole league in front of me, but I would imagine this is an upper third group of defensemen in the league like they. Luke Hughes, I think is a really interesting piece just in how big of a step can he take in his third full season in the NHL? I think he's gotten, he's up to 155 career games. We're kind of getting to the point where you, he's played enough that he knows how the NHL works. And I'm curious if there's a big leap coming from, from him at some point and if there is, that would be huge for the Devils. Trades are interesting, man, because it's, they've got a lot of guys. But you are also dealing with a lot of trade protection with some of these players, like Dougie Hamilton. On paper, maybe it makes sense to trade him, but that's not. If Dougie Hamilton doesn't want to get traded, which there's no indication that he wants to get traded, he is not, he could make it himself pretty difficult to trade. Brett Pesci has a full no trade clause. Brendan Dillon has a full no trade clause for the rest of the year and then a modified no trade clause. Siegenthaler has some trade protection. Kovacevich, who's going to start the year on ir, has a full no trade clause. So if you're looking at trading a defenseman, unless you can find a fit for Dougie Hamilton, which also would take away your power play quarterback, one of your best defensemen, and cause a big hole in your roster, you're probably looking at trading one of those young guys. And maybe this is a year you push in some of those chips and you say, okay, it's time to consider that. But you also can Never have enough young defensemen coming up because you never know who's going to hit and who's going to take a step back and all of that. But in short, they're in a really good position defensively. The forward group I think is good, but that probably has more, I guess, weaknesses on paper than the defensive group for sure.
- [63:38]
Max Boltman
And here's what's interesting with that about the forward group is a couple seasons ago, Dawson Mercer had that breakout campaign at age 21, he's threatening 30 goals, 60 points, and he just hasn't repeated it the last couple years and I don't really see a good reason why. So whenever I look at the Devils and look for like, where could that come from? Like, his name just leaps off the page as a guy who it feels like absolutely has that in him. He's built like a playoff style player.
- [64:02]
Peter Ball
Yeah. And he's extremely durable. I mean the fact that he's played 328 consecutive games to start his career is, is worth something. You know he's going to be in the lineup every night. But yeah, he's got a kind of this. It's getting to that time where it's like, is this guy a third line player or is this someone you can trust in the top six? Because he hasn't consistently been a guy who you can trust in the top six. I'm curious about Gritsyuk, this Russian draft pick that came over. He's getting a lot of opportunity in preseason and I think is going to get a lot of opportunity in the lineup to start the year. I liked the pickup of Evgani to Donovan. Like that's a guy who you just kind of can bank on and you know he's going to be a productive NHL player who can play in your middle six and maybe even on your top line if you need knows how to play with skilled players. But yeah, Mercer, I think in an ideal world for the Devils, he really pops off and then you can kind of run with him as a top six player. But he's got a lot to prove. He hasn't shown that consistently yet in his career.
- [65:01]
Max Boltman
I think we as the hockey media collectively willed Jacob Markstrom onto the New Jersey Devils roster a couple seasons ago, whether it was the trade deadline or when the actually gets done. What did you make of his first season there with the Devils and what do you, what do you think he has in store in year two?
- [65:18]
Peter Ball
I thought it was a good first season. Like he, he got hurt I guess in, in January or February, but in the first 36 games before he missed more than a month with Injury, he had a.9 12 percentage, and the Devils were.22, 9 and 5 in his starts. So he was really good before this injury that, that he kind of came back from and struggled with initially. I thought in the playoffs he was really solid. He kind of willed them to stay in that game five that they ended up losing in overtime. He had a.911 save percentage in five games. I think Markstrom had a good first year with the Devils. I wouldn't say it was a banner first year, but I think it was trending in a really good direction before he went down with injury. And then the second part of the year, kind of when he came back after Four nations after recovering enough to get back in the lineup, he. He wasn't quite himself yet, and. And that tanked his numbers a little bit. But I think the interesting thing with Markstrom is just his. His age. He's 35 years old, and we've seen goalies now kind of play longer into their career. I mean, we're looking at Bobrovsky right now as is 37 down in Florida, and he's as reliable as. As they come. But can Markstrom kind of continue to be a reliable starter? He's on the last year of his deal, so this is a big year for him in terms of his own kind of future in the league and what he's going to get paid. But the Devils certainly need a big season from him because Jake Allen is a good number two goalie, but he's not a. He's not someone that you can be counting on to carry the load come playoff time.
- [66:52]
Max Boltman
All right, you've seen enough of these to know the drill here. Will they finish higher or lower in the standings than last season, and will they make the playoffs? Just refresher for those who don't know. 91 points and third in the metro a season ago.
- [67:04]
Peter Ball
I think we're. We're bound for a good regular season from the New Jersey Devils. I think they're going to finish second in the division to Carolina, so higher in the standings and they will make the playoffs.
- [67:16]
Max Boltman
All right, who's their most important player?
- [67:18]
Peter Ball
I think it's hard to say. Anyone but Jack Hughes, solely because of the injury thing. It's not, you know, what you're getting when he is in the lineup. You're getting an incredible playmaker, someone who can skate incredibly well and he's going to contribute a ton of offense. But they need him playing games, and if he has a fully healthy season. I think this team is in really good shape. If he goes down with injury again, we saw it last year. There's kind of a trickle down effect on the whole lineup of guys having to move up into roles there. They probably are not ready to play. They need Jack Hughes healthy. He knows that it's not like these injuries are they've been kind of these freak accidents if he went hard into the board shoulder first last year. But it's regardless, it is kind of, I think high on everyone in New Jersey's mind the fact that he hasn't hasn't played a full season in a while and they need him to do that.
- [68:11]
Max Boltman
And last but not least, give me a title for the devil season.
- [68:14]
Peter Ball
Instead of doing a song title, I'm going to go with a cliche. An apple a day keeps the doctor away and that is because this team, I think it's entirely health dependent. They need Jack Hughes healthy. Last year in the in the first round they lost multiple defensemen they were playing. I mean I think Brian Dumoulin played well over 30 minutes a night. I think there was one game where he played 36, 37 minutes in the playoffs and he's now in LA and he did a nice job for the Devils post deadline. But that's they can't be counting on on guy on guys like that to play over 30 minutes a night in the playoffs and injuries is why you have to do that. So they need to stay healthy and and if they do that then I think they have a really good shot to to have a good season and make a little bit of a playoff run.
- [69:04]
Max Boltman
And Apple a Day also might get Jack Hughes the Hart Trophy. Thanks so much Peter. We're going to take a quick break and we'll be right back.
- [69:13]
Kevin Kerr
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Max Boltman
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- [70:46]
Aaron Portzline
B a b b l.com acast rules.
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Peter Ball
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- [70:56]
Max Boltman
All right, we're back and we are joined now from Philadelphia by Kevin Kerr, Flyers beat writer here at the Athletic and and Kevin, last year to me the story of the Flyers was the arrival of Matve Mitchkov. What do you think he's got in store for an encore?
- [71:10]
Kevin Kerr
Yeah, he looks good so far. We're still early in camp here but you know, he's obviously going to be a guy that's going to be probably their most important player I would think this season. You know, obviously under John Tortorella there was some teaching going on as only John Tortorella can do in some ways. But I think it's something that Mitchkoff has appreciated, frankly. You know, I don't think he enjoyed coming out of the lineup like he did for a couple of games or getting benched for long stretches of time. But you know, he's, he said in some of those Russian language interviews over the summer that, that he appreciated what Tortorella did for him. At the same time he wants more ice time. And I thought it was interesting when, when Tortorella got fired with nine games to go, Mitch Cough's ice time went up, I think like three or four minutes per game. So to me that's going to be something to watch early on is how much ice time is he going to get under Rick Talkett and how forgiving will talk it be when Mitch Cough, you know, blows the zone early or something or loses a coverage.
- [72:18]
Peter Ball
Mitch Cobb's obviously super important and potentially has, could, could have a big offensive impact right away and, and break out. Another guy I'm really interested in is Trevor Zegras. I mean this is a guy who a few years ago was on the COVID of the NHL video games, was putting up 60 point seasons as a 20, 21 year old, was doing the Michigan in games and he's kind of, I don't want to say falling off the face of the earth, but he really hasn't done all that much the past two seasons. The Flyers bought low on him. They didn't trade nothing for him. But I think the, the upside was certainly greater on their end of the deal than Anaheim's. What do you expect from Zegras, positionally and just in terms of what he can bring to this Flyers team?
- [73:02]
Kevin Kerr
Yeah, there's no question that Tockit's going to give him a long look at center and that's something Zegras wants and that's something that even Pat Verbeek acknowledged after the trade was made, that Zegras wants to play center and there just isn't room for him as a top six center in Anaheim behind guys like Mason McTavish and, and Leo Carlson. So he's going to get a chance here. We'll see if he can handle it. Obviously his best two offensive seasons were his first two seasons in the league when he was playing center. Shifted the wing for all of last year, most of the season before that. He's going to be a center for I think, at least the first little while and he's going to have good line mates, whether that ends up being Matt VAY Mechkov or Travis Knechne. It'll be one of the two, I would think, for the first little while. And you know, you talk about Michkov and Zigras both. One thing that I think is something they can both do is spark the power play and that I'm sure that's something you guys wanted to get to because this team's power play has been so bad for so long. But that that really could be something that makes or breaks the offense and even those two players in terms of production because they both have the weapons to be strong power play players. But the power play here has been again so bad for so long. We'll see if that's something that Rick Tackett can get fixed. I think that's probably one of the reasons he was an attractive candidate to Danny Briere, is that Takit has had success previously in his career coaching a power play.
- [74:27]
Peter Ball
Speaking of Talkett, I guess just how much of a he seems like a bit Tortorella comes in and there's an initial bump from Tortorella just because of the way he coaches and. And the way guys respond immediately. Talkett seems to have some of that too where guys can. He can make the most out of the talent he has how much of a boost do you think they can get from. From having him?
- [74:49]
Kevin Kerr
You know, I think the interesting part to me is going to be how his defensive system can help the goaltenders, because that's obviously been the other big problem here for the last few years. Ever since Carter Hart went away in the middle of last season, the goaltending just hasn't been there. That's been Sam Erison and a whole host of backups, none of which should have even been in the NHL and probably aren't going to start in the NHL this year either. So, you know, can. Can Talkett's defensive system help the Flyers make. You know, can it help the goalies make more saves? And that's something Targets talked about a few times already is he wants his goalies to only have to play half of the net, and we saw what he did in Vancouver when he had Thatcher Demko there.
- [75:32]
Peter Ball
Right.
- [75:32]
Kevin Kerr
It was a remarkable defensive turnaround. I think the foundation here defensively is already pretty strong, and that's something he's mentioned. I mean, you know, if you look at some of the. Some of the underlying stats with the Flyers as a team, they really weren't that bad in terms of five on five, you know, goals for differential. Right. It's just the goaltenders were letting in far too many goals, and there wasn't and still probably isn't enough elite talent offensively. But that's going to be the big thing for me is, is defensively, can his system help these goaltenders out? Because, you know, there are plenty of times the goaltenders just were letting in too many shots that they should have stopped. But now you're going to have Sam Erison, who isn't going to get, you know, four starts a week like he was previously because John Tortorella had no other options. He's got Dan Vladar. The Flyers are going to have to hope that Vladar is at least a serviceable goalie. And, you know, I think there's a chance they could both benefit from that, but a lot is going to depend on how much, especially the defense core buys into the way Rick Togg wants to play defense.
- [76:39]
Max Boltman
It is interesting, though, because for. For a team that was tied for the worst record in the Eastern Conference last season, I don't feel like we're talking about them in. In true rebuild terms here. Like, this is not a. A burn it to the ground kind of dynamic in Philadelphia. Is that fair?
- [76:54]
Kevin Kerr
That's 100% fair, and that's. They hope that part is over. You know, management Danny Briere, Keith Jones, they've been very transparent in saying that they want the team to take a step forward this year. You know, the last couple years since Briere took over, this will be his third year. His first two years, it was all about subtraction, it was all about resetting the culture and maybe trading some guys that they didn't feel, felt believed fit in that regard and trading players on the ice that they didn't see as long term solutions. Guys like Morgan Frost, Joel Farabee, last year, Scott Lawton, you know, a lot of them were, they were already getting pushed by some of the younger guys coming up. So you know, on paper it should be a better team because they did add in the off season they brought in Dan Bladar as a goaltender, which, who is obviously not the sexiest name, but he's a huge upgrade over the two backups they had last year. Zegras. We'll see what they get out of him. Christian Dvorak, again, not, not the most attractive name on the market, but a guy that can play a solid game down the middle. He can help kill penalties and you know, they didn't really lose anybody. Right. They're also hoping that a lot of these young guys, whether it's Mechkov, Tyson Forster, Cam York, they obviously want to see improvement from these younger guys as well as, you know, with as well as contributions from the guys they brought in. So yeah, on paper they should be better, but we'll see if that's the case.
- [78:20]
Max Boltman
Obviously we've been asking every beat writer the same set of questions here to wrap. So number one is will they finish higher or lower in the standings than last season and will they make the playoffs?
- [78:33]
Kevin Kerr
I'm going to say yes and no. You know, they finished last place in the metro this year. I think they'll finish ahead of the Islanders and the Penguins, but I don't think that's going to put them in the mix for a playoff spot. I do think they're going to more resemble the team two years ago that that overachieved and was surprisingly in the playoff picture before they kind of choked at the end. And I do think the Metropolitan Division is probably the weakest of the four. Right. It could be wide open. Well, you know, we'll see what some of the older teams like the Rangers do or some of the younger teams like the Columbus. Right. Which direction they go in. So I'm going to say better than last year, but still not quite a playoff team.
- [79:12]
Peter Ball
And who is their most important player Going into the year.
- [79:16]
Kevin Kerr
Yeah, it's. It's Mitch Goff, I think, you know, just because of what he can do on the power play and, and the strides, I think he is, he, he can take. You know, he's going to be 21 in December, so he's, he's only his second year in the league, but of course his first year, which he probably would have been in the NHL, was spent in the khl. So I think he's more prepared. He's going to be more prepared from a physical standpoint after going through the rigors of the season last year. I think that's something that, at least from what I've been told, he, he really, he really wanted to make sure he was in better physical shape because that's something he admitted was difficult for him last year.
- [79:55]
Peter Ball
Was.
- [79:56]
Kevin Kerr
Was playing games every other night for weeks on end.
- [80:00]
Aaron Portzline
And.
- [80:00]
Kevin Kerr
But, you know, secondarily, it's the goaltending, right? As it always is in Philadelphia. I mean, you know, the, the worst save percentage in the league last year. I know that management still believes in Sam Erison. We'll see what they get out of Ladar. You know, if, if the power play and the goaltending. I know you can say this with every bad team, right? You identify if this team was good at this, this and this, well, they would have been the mixer playoff spot. It's. It's often a silly argument to make, but with this team, the power play was so bad, the goaltending has been so bad that if they just, if they just improve those two facets of their game marginally, it's going to lead to an overall improvement in the standings.
- [80:43]
Max Boltman
All right, and then last one. If you had to title this upcoming Flyers season like a book or a movie title, what are you giving it?
- [80:49]
Kevin Kerr
How about TikTok? We got talking in charge pitch. It's been a very slow rebuild, right. It's been methodical. They're not trying to rush into anything, but they do want to see consistent improvement. So, you know, as an organization, they hope that the clock is moving forward this year and not moving backwards.
- [81:11]
Max Boltman
He is Kevin Kerrs and you can find him on Tick Tock. No, just kidding.
- [81:14]
Kevin Kerr
No, no TikTok for me.
- [81:16]
Max Boltman
But we do appreciate him coming on with us today. Hey, look who it is again. We're joined by Shayna Goldman once more this time to talk about the Carolina Hurricanes. Shayna, this is the team that had maybe the most interesting off season in the NHL. They signed Nicola Ehlers. They trade for Keandre Miller, there's only one question here. Are these the pieces that the Hurricanes have been missing to get over the hump?
- [81:36]
Shayna Goldman
I think these are very important pieces that are going to make this team a lot better. I'm. I'm so curious if they're going to be good enough to go against, you know, the best in the Atlantic, but I think this team should make it to the conference final. Like, absolutely. This team is better than they were last year, without a doubt. Because I think last year we saw, like, just some guys filling into certain roles, and now it's like, no, no, no. Now you got, like, the top options out there to replace them. So I am high on them, but we all know how that goes.
- [82:06]
Peter Ball
I'm very high on them, too, and I am buying all the cane stock right now. I think in hockey, it's hard to. Because of how fluky a sport it is. It's hard to, like, say a season is a failure if a team doesn't get to a certain place in the playoffs. But if you're the Hurricanes, you have to get to the conference finals again this year, like you said. And I think they're going to have a really good chance to. To make their first cup since. Since 06. And I'm. I'm really high on them.
- [82:35]
Shayna Goldman
I think they have to get to the conference final. It's like, I think they have to, like, put up a good fight in it. That's like my step forward for them, like, if they lose but it's in seven games and you're like, wow, they looked really good. Wow. They stood tall against, say, the Panthers. I will be impressed. And that's a step forward. And I think the difference between them and the other contenders is, like, their window is wide open still. Like, this is such a good team. This is not a. Oh, they're at the end of it and they have to do it now or bust. Even though they've been here for so long.
- [83:00]
Peter Ball
Yeah, it's extremely well built.
- [83:02]
Max Boltman
The other difference between them and some of the other contenders, with the exception of Edmonton, I will grant, is I don't think they have that guy in goal. One of those few true number ones in the league that you feel amazing about going into a playoff game or a playoff series. Am I off on that? I mean, I know Kachekov's risen in recent years. I know Freddie Anderson's given us, when he's in, when he's healthy, stretches of good play to watch, but I still just feel a little itchy when I Think about the crease there.
- [83:26]
Shayna Goldman
Yeah. I think the goaltending is like the one potential weak point. And I think that. I know, like it's so hard because every year different team wins the Stanley Cup. Well, generally speaking, sorry, Florida, but like you learn something different from each of them. Right. And I think when Vegas won it was that message of like, you don't need an elite goaltender to get there and you don't need the goaltender to win at all. But it's also like Aiden Hill was incredible for them. So you need someone that can help get you to the playoffs and they have to up their game. But I think if you have such a strong team in front of the blue paint, do you need an Andre Vasilevsky? No. So you can get by with, you know, a solid, a solid crease. Do I think Kochov and Anderson are that. It's like there's too much volatility there for me. Like Kochov's game to me is volatile and you see those ups and downs and I want him to take a step forward and I like the way he plays aggressively, but sometimes it just doesn't work out. And I don't think the consistency is there. And with Anderson, the durability is a problem, but when he's healthy, he's so good. So I wonder if they can maybe split the workload a bit more this year. Like even similar to the Capitals last year, go every other down the stretch, you start going more with back to back, see how it goes and see if someone can take their aims into the playoffs. Like maybe that will work for them.
- [84:38]
Peter Ball
Shana, you watch a lot of New York Rangers hockey. Keandre Miller has been on the Rangers in recent years. The Carolina Hurricanes made a huge bet on him this off season. They traded a first round pick, they traded Scott Morrow, they traded another draft pick and then they extended Miller for eight years at a big number. What do you make of that move and do you think. I guess why do you think Carolina thinks that he is the right fit for their system?
- [85:05]
Shayna Goldman
I love the move for the Hurricanes. I would not love that move in New York. I think Andrew Miller is not a $7 million defenseman in New York. I think we saw that. I think we saw it through multiple coaches. I think the last couple years his development stalled so much under Phil Housley and Peter Laviolette. And I wouldn't have blamed the Rangers for saying, let's go at it one more time with the different coaching, you know, with someone like Mike Sullivan. Right. Who we know is a legitimately great coach and see if they can get the best out of his game. I also understand why they said they can't afford it because they're betting on too many rebounds.
- [85:38]
Peter Ball
Right.
- [85:38]
Shayna Goldman
Like you can't have the entire roster needing to take a, to bounce back. The chances of that happening across the board, that's, that's really tough. For the Canes though, this is a team that just has a knack for maximizing players within their system. We talk all about the system. Yes, sometimes it gets a little bit overhyped, but they have a system and an identity that most teams don't have. And I think their coaching staff knows how to plug and play players into different positions, especially on the back end. To me, this isn't the same as saying, okay, you can get a bunch of random guys like they did last year and hope that they're going to be good. It's, here's a player that has these raw talents, right? Like the skating speed, the straight line speed is incredible right there. I think he's worked on his footwork in tight too. He has a really long reach so he can have that disruptive stick. And we've seen the highlights of his defensive plays which you don't always see. Right. Like he has these eye catching plays that you go, this is someone that could be really, really, really special. Never was going to happen in New York, but here I could 100% see it somewhere in the top four and I'm curious to see where he ultimately ends up playing. It would make a lot of sense with someone like Chatfield. I could see him stepping up to that first pair too and just see what he can do and how they can take those tools and now turn that into legitimate top four skill.
- [86:47]
Peter Ball
I agree with you fully. I think Keandre Miller's poised for a big year. But let's, let's move on to the rapid fire questions and we'll start with will the Carolina Hurricanes finish higher or lower in the standings than last year and will they make the playoffs?
- [87:02]
Shayna Goldman
They're making the playoffs and they're going to be the first seed in the metro this year because I think the Caps are going down. I think the Canes will be the team to take that crown.
- [87:09]
Max Boltman
Who's their most important player? I mean you just talked about they have this tried and true conveyor belt like affect to them. Who's the most important cog in that?
- [87:19]
Shayna Goldman
Yeah, I think I'm going to go with a boring answer and probably the most predictable one. But I Just think it's the truth. I think it's Jacob Slavin. I think Slavin and Ajo are the two players that help this system just keep going, right. Like they are staples. They are everything and more to the Canes. I think the forward group is going to be more of, like, the sum of all their parts this year with the Ailers, with Svetchnikov, I think we'll take a stab. Jarvis is so good. You know, Stankov, and you name all these names and go, that top nine has got it. But on the back end, to me, which if the Canes are going to play their style of hockey and if these goaltenders are going to be good, they need Jacob Slavin to be Jacob Slavin. And year after year, he is just incredible. His game is quietly effective every single year. They call him, what, like the human eraser because he just takes away any offensive opportunities. So I think he has to be, every single year, their MVP and the.
- [88:07]
Max Boltman
Book title or an album title to describe their season.
- [88:11]
Shayna Goldman
Okay. After hyping them up this whole time, we're going to go with Wretched Trajectory by Origami Angel.
- [88:16]
Peter Ball
Wow.
- [88:17]
Shayna Goldman
As good as they are, and I think they're going to be a hell of a lot better than they were last year. At the end of the day, I think they're going to crash out to a Florida team in the conference final, and everyone is going to be up in arms about it. I think it's just the way it's going to go. And even if they're better, like we were saying before, if they're good in that round, at least it's a step forward. I think everyone's just going to look at it and be like, nope, they didn't get over the hump. That's it.
- [88:39]
Peter Ball
I disagree. This is the year they're representing the east in the. In the cup final. But I appreciate your honesty as always. Shayna, you're. You're always great to talk hockey with.
- [88:51]
Shayna Goldman
Well, it's so much fun.
- [88:52]
Max Boltman
She is Shana Goldman, and that was the Carolina Hurricanes. All right, we're going to bring it home now from Pittsburgh with the great Josh Yoey. And, Josh, I feel like the story in Pittsburgh, well, you could take it a lot of different ways, but for me, it's. There's a clear kind of youth movement on the way, and yet they're still, you know, led by the greatest player of this generation and a lot of the. The members of their golden era here. And I wonder how you see that Shaking out. There's obviously been a lot of reporting about how this is all to going to play for Crosby in recent weeks.
- [89:24]
Josh Yoey
Yeah, Max, it's so strange when you walk into the Penguins locker room right now because on one side you still have Crosby and Carlson and Latang and Malin and Rust and Raquel, and then on the other side you have a bunch of 20 year olds and it's got to be awkward for. Especially for Sid. I. I'm sure it is. You know, these kids all grew up admiring him and there he is, still playing with them and still playing better than anyone. They are rebuilding, but it's a different kind of rebuild because of all these old guys and because most of them have no trade clauses. I. I have no doubt there are some of those guys Kyle Dubas would prefer to discard of to expedite things, but that's where we are. And as long as Sid is on this team, you have to wonder if they will get themselves into the Gavin McKenna sweepstakes or not. I'm sure that's what they would prefer. But when you still got that guy going the way he is, that complicates things a little bit.
- [90:20]
Max Boltman
And you've talked to him throughout this preseason. Right? There was obviously the Bresson comments about, you know, Sid need to be on a playoff team. And we can all read between the lines on that. And it comes down to whether he's trade or not. I don't want to spend too much time on that because it's either going to happen or it's not. But while he's in Pittsburgh, like, what do you expect from Sidney Crosby this season with all this chaos around him, speculation wise, and yet knowing he's going to try to get them into the playoffs anyway.
- [90:47]
Josh Yoey
I think he'll look like Sidney Crosby. The last three years he's been like 94 points, 92 points, 93 point, something like that. It's like identical numbers the last three seasons. And one of my favorite things, Max, the first day of training camp when everybody just kind of, you know, finding their way and shaking off some rust. I love watching him. That's my favorite thing. Because he already looks like it's January and he's in full flight and every year you kind of want to look like, well, does he look as fast? Does he look as sharp? Does he look as strong on his skates and. Yeah, he does. He looks like Crosby like he always does. He'll be great. I do wonder what this season will be like for him though, because, yeah, the last couple. I mean, listen, this is a guy who, former Red Wings coach Mike Babcock, it's my favorite Crosby description ever. He once referred to Crosby as a serial winner and that that's what he is. And this team, you can't win with this team right now. There's, I don't think there's any way. And that's what he's stuck with. And it has to be depressing for him. I'm sure the Olympics will be, you know, nice little dangling carrot for him to focus on when February comes. But just psychologically, how he's going to get through this when he's done nothing but win, to have another what surely is going to be a rough season. I don't really think he's going to want to go anywhere, but on some level you could understand it, but it can't be fun for him right now.
- [92:08]
Max Boltman
Let's talk about some of the young guys who could introduce themselves to Penguins fans this season. And one of the guys just reading your articles whose name keeps popping up is Villi Koivan. And what kind of role is this guy going to have on the Penguins? And what should we expect from him?
- [92:20]
Josh Yoey
Yeah, for those who don't know Billy Koivan and was a Carolina draft pick, he came to Pittsburgh in the Jake gensel trade about 18 months ago. Really nice looking player. He's not big. I mean, that's, that's his one wart. But I think he could be a legitimate top six winger in time. You will see him on the second or third line to start this season. Probably more of a playmaker than a goal scorer, but I think he's a guy who can be really effective on the power play. He just looks faster. You know, some guys when they're young, Max, like their bodies are still developing, right? You'll see like age 20 to 21, like, whoa, he looks so much faster. And you forget how young they are and they're still developing. So he's had a really good camp. Just a slick, smart offensive player. I don't know exactly who to compare them to. Maybe a little Thomas Tatara, maybe I could see him maybe being that kind of a player. Maybe I don't think he'll be a superstar, but I think he's a legitimately good middle six winger in the making and he'll make this team.
- [93:19]
Max Boltman
It is amazing what 5 pounds of leg muscle will do for a guy's explosiveness, especially on the big guys. Like, I always notice the big guys make huge skating leaps once Their legs are big enough to carry around all that size on them. Another young guy who really popped to me at the World Junior Summer Showcase this year is a guy I know you've written extensively about in Harrison Bernicke. And you know this is going to air, you know, the week of the 29th, so we may have more information by the time people hear this than as you and I are talking here. Harrison Brunicki have a chance to stick up with the big club for a while this year?
- [93:49]
Josh Yoey
I think he does. He's the Penguin second round pick a couple of years ago. He's still only 19. He doesn't turn 20, I think until next May. I'm not so sure. He's not their best defenseman right now. He sure as heck is one of their six best defensemen. He put on a show at training camp last season, he blew everyone away and he's picked up right where he left off. He's been a little injury prone the last couple of years, otherwise I think he would have been drafted a lot higher. But he's a right handed defenseman who, he can just do it all. I don't know that it'll be the, the quote unquote number one defenseman, you know, a few years from now, but he's at worst going to be a really good top four right handed guy and those aren't easy to find. The interesting thing with the Penguins, when you look at the roster on the right side, you've got Eric Carlson, Chris Latang, Matt Dumba. You assume that that will be what they would go with when the season starts. But I don't know and I know this isn't airing for a little while, so we'll see what happens. I wouldn't be shocked at all if he at least gets a nine game trial to see how he looks at the NHL level. And I, I think I'm leaning toward doing that if I'm the Penguins. Just watching him play every day, man, you got to give your fan base a little something to get excited about sometimes. And it also wouldn't hurt him to get a taste of life in the NHL. And also there's this Max, like Dan Muse was hired to work with young players. That's what he does. He's worked with, you know, 19 year old guys most of his career. So is it a bad thing to have this kid at the NHL level this season where he can work with him all the time? I don't necessarily know that it is. He is a really good prospect and by the Way for all the people who ripped the Jake Ansel trade when it was made, the second round pick they got back from Carolina turned into Harrison Bruinick. So. So that trade all of a sudden looks pretty good.
- [95:35]
Max Boltman
Yeah. What have you thought of me so far?
- [95:39]
Josh Yoey
Well, I'll tell you, I. He's the most hands on coach I've ever seen in training camp. Like in the past, the Penguins have two pads at their practice facility and they'd have two groups practice simultaneously. Not this guy. It's just one at a time because he wants on the ice with every single group. So the media is grumbling because we're, you know, you start at 8:00am and you're there till 5:00 clock every day. It's long days. But he's impressive. I mean, I can tell you. I just, you know, private conversations I've had with Sidney Crosby and other veterans, they really like them. They're impressed. This guy shows up, I guess at 6am every day and he's there till 10 o' clock at night. One of those guys, the, the dedication is very clear. He looks like a hands on type and he is just killing them in training camp. They all look like they're gonna vomit after every practice. But I, I think that's good. I think he needs to assert himself a little bit with this group. Whether it's, you know, a bunch of hall of Famers who maybe don't want to be told what to do at this stage of their career, or a bunch of 20 year olds who, you know, need some, some discipline. Either way, I think it works. And he's letting them know who the boss is very early.
- [96:44]
Max Boltman
I give you an over under one and a half of Brian Rust, Eric Carlson and Ricard Raquel finishing this season as Penguins. What are you taking?
- [96:56]
Josh Yoey
Probably the under. I'm surprised that one of them wasn't moved this summer. Yeah, I think, I think that just goes to show that the lack of movement around the league in general. I think Kyle Dubas wanted to do some work and it takes two to tango and that's just the way it is. Of those three, I'd probably guess Raquel is the most likely to go. I'd guess Raquel and Carlson at some point during the season will be traded. It wouldn't shock me if Rust were. You could probably get the most in return for Rust. Yes, I know you could. But that, that's a tough one for the Penguins that he's. If. If Crosby retires in a couple of years and Malkin's probably done after this year. And if Latangs, everybody's gone in a couple of years, like Rust would probably be their captain. I mean, he's, he has emerged as that guy. He's an unbelievable leader. He's been very outspoken about wanting to stay. That said, if Kyle receives an offer he can't refuse, which is to say a first round pick and you know, a team's best prospect or something like that, then yeah, I'm sure he would trade Brian Rust. But there's no urgency to trade him in particular. He is beloved in that locker room. He would be a tough one to let go. He's the only guy left from the cup years other than Crosby, Malkin and Latang. So he's, he's, he's held in very high regard here.
- [98:21]
Max Boltman
All right, we got a few questions that we've been asking every beat writer at the end of these things. So the first one is, will they finish higher or lower in the standings than they did a year ago? And will they make the playoffs?
- [98:32]
Josh Yoey
I suspect they will finish lower in the standings than they did. They actually went on a hot streak late in the year to make the record look better than it was. Screwed themselves out of about four draft slots. Not the way to do it. I, I think they're a bottom 10 team and if they're a bottom five team, it wouldn't shock me. This team is not making the playoffs. If this team makes the playoffs, you can give Sidney Crosby your heart trophy vote right now because I just can't see it happening.
- [98:59]
Max Boltman
So that makes the second question interesting to me though, right? Because the next question is who's their most important player? And it's obviously Sidney Crosby. But when you look at the season from the lens that, that the season is going to be in, right, like this is a rebuild season, does that change the answer? Is it still Sidney Crosby or does it become somebody else?
- [99:15]
Josh Yoey
Well, if you want them to be good or exceed expectations, it's him. I guess it's always him. But I would throw Tristan Jari out there. He's probably still going to be their starting goaltender opening night. He has a lot of talent. He also was sent to Wilkes Barre twice last season. If he could play well enough to get traded, that would be a success. If he does play well, they'll, they'll be better maybe than people think.
- [99:41]
Max Boltman
So if he plays bad, they're going to pick really high.
- [99:44]
Josh Yoey
Yeah, good point. So. And it's hard being the Penguins goalie because they probably have the worst blue line in the league and it's really bad. So I. It's really hard to gauge their goaltenders in general, but I still think the goaltending. I. You can pick a goalie on any team and say it's important. But in Pittsburgh's case, man, if he. If he struggles again, they will be a bottom five team probably.
- [100:07]
Max Boltman
And if you had to give a title for this Penguin season as if it were like a book or an album, what would you call it?
- [100:13]
Josh Yoey
I will dramatically call it Echoes of Greatness because. Because some nights, like Crosby's still so great. Like I always tell people, like hockey tickets are expensive. I know he's still worth the price of admission every night. He is. So you still get to see him playing. Like, there's some nights when Malkin still looks like Malkin, some nights Carlson still looks like Carlson. So every now and then you might see something special. They're not boring, but they're. Listen, if you took this roster, if it was 2017, they'd be unbelievable just the way it is. But it's not 2017 anymore, is it?
- [100:48]
Max Boltman
No, it's not. Awesome stuff. Josh, thanks so much for doing this. And the Penguin season, as you said, will not be always a pleasure.
- [100:56]
Josh Yoey
Max.
- [100:57]
Max Boltman
All right, Peter, we've heard from everybody here. Now who you got to win the metro in 20, 25, 26.
- [101:04]
Peter Ball
I think this is the Carolina Hurricanes year to win the Metro. They've shown that they're a regular season machine. They win games. Rod Brindemore system is really hard to play against on a night to night basis, especially if you don't have much time to prep for. It's very aggressive and in your face and for checking and, and difficult. So I think this is the Hurricanes division to lose this year.
- [101:26]
Max Boltman
I'm with you. I, I think it's kind of the boring answer. I'd love to pick something a little splashier, but when you have one of the perennial best teams in this division went out and had the best off season in this division, it's very hard to pick against them. I am very curious. I mean, I think you, you said earlier you think the Devils are going to finish second. I, I like that call. I think there, there's real juice to that and I'm very interested to see what the Rangers can do. Vince was a little bit lower on the Rangers than I think I expected. But I mean you, you were that last year. I, I kept trying to talk you into the Rangers and you were steadfast and, and you were right. So maybe I just can't quit the Rangers.
- [101:58]
Peter Ball
I don't know, I think we've talked about this. When you're around a team every day you really see their warts and the Rangers had a lot of warts last year and we'll see if they're able to clean them up this year. But yeah, I think if any team is going to challenge the Hurricanes for the regular season division crown, I would.
- [102:15]
Max Boltman
Say it's the Devils and the Washington Capital is just in unison fist pumped that they can still be the underdogs.
- [102:20]
Peter Ball
Spencer Carbury is just clipping this. This is bulletin board material. They're going to be playing it at the practice facility on Loop and so Spencer, you're you're welcome.
- [102:30]
Max Boltman
Yep, 111 point underdogs out there in DC. That's going to do it for us. Thanks for listening to the Athletic Hockey Show's Metro Division Preview. You can tune in tomorrow for our Central Division preview and make sure to check out the other divisions as well this week. We'll talk to you soon. Pura brings smart fragrance and function together.
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Is his favorite podcast too. Ah, really?
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Thanks.
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