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- [00:00]
Max Bultman
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- [01:26]
Chris Peters
This is the athletic hockey show prospect series.
- [01:36]
Max Bultman
Foreign. Hey everybody. Max Bultman here alongside the Athletics, Corey Prominence, Scott Wheeler and Flow Hockey's Chris Peters for another episode of the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series Packed show today we got a couple of mock drafts to get to and actually a lot to dive into on those. We're going to talk about the goalies of this draft class. We're going to talk about the overages of this draft class. So let's get right into it. Corey and I want to start with the scout and exec poll mock draft that you did this week because it's a little different take on it, right? I mean I know all of your guys work is is to some extent informed by conversations you're having around the league. This one you really turn it over to the scouts and the execs to make the picks or project the picks I should say. And what was your biggest takeaway from how it went?
- [02:20]
Corey Pronman
Yeah, the idea was inspired by the way by our NFL writer Mike Sando. Pretty much stole the idea from him and applied it on on the hockey side.
- [02:27]
Max Bultman
Good guy to copy.
- [02:29]
Corey Pronman
Yeah. And I thought it went really well. I was worried that there wouldn't be like, enough consensus, and you just get a bunch of votes for a bunch of different players. But I found doing the exercise, we did like a table at the bottom there that you could kind of see. You saw that there was kind of a clear trend among the league evaluators about how they think the draft is going to go. They all think McKenna is going to Toronto. They all think Chase Reed's going to San Jose. Most of them think Caleb Balhotra is going to Vancouver. And then it really starts to get blurry there. And I think there's obviously a lot to take away from those statements right there, because we've talked about is San Jose for sure taking Reed, is Toronto for sure taking McKenna? And obviously, you know, we have, you know, Stenberg in that conversation. So there's a couple of main takeaways for me from this is that not everyone in the league has McKenna. One, not everyone in the league has Stenberg, you know, one, not everybody in the league has McKenna or Stenberg. One, two. There's different opinions on those players and where they fit relative to Matt Holders, one of those defensemen. But what I found in my conversations of doing this exercise and in the weeks now leading up to the draft is I think there's more people in the league who think there's a distinction between McKenna and Stenberg than people who think it's close. I don't view it that way. I think it's close. I think what Stenberg has done this year has been very, very impressive, obviously having a really good men's worlds. But I have found there are more people who think Stenberg gets closer to 3, 4, 5, then he's in the conversation to go at 1, 2. Toronto, at least in terms of projecting how the draft goes, whether you agree or disagree is a whole different conversation. Does that make sense?
- [04:15]
Max Bultman
Yeah. I mean, and to that point, like, like you said, all six have McKenna, you know, not necessarily ranked one, but projected to go one. No one had Stenberg in this entire poll higher than four. Like, and it was four. People had him at four. So I think that's interesting and especially in light, Scott, of what Stenberg is doing right now at Worlds.
- [04:34]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, I, I've. I've mocked chase Reed at 2 and Caleb Malhotra at 3. I know the Canucks absolutely love Caleb Malhotra, and re. We've talked about the merits of Reed and taking a defenseman for the Sharks, but the more I've watched Ivar over the last couple of weeks here, the more convinced I am of that these two wingers are kind of. I'm. I know. I know that I've been beating that drum. But the more and more convinced I am that these two wingers are the two best players in this class, the two best prospects in this class, a cut above the D for me, I know it's. It's easy to say, well, this is the last week of the season and you should have known that already. And certainly I have. Those two guys have been top two on my list all year. But it mattered for Moritz Seider. It mattered for your eyes Slafkovsky, when they were good at men's worlds. I think this is a very serious data point, even if it is late in the year, even if it is at the buzzer. I think how good Ivar has been really, really matters in the conversation. And I wonder how much of an impact it's going to have in final meetings, in combine interviews, in everything that's to come over the next, what, four and a half weeks before the draft. Because I do think if. If there's a push to be made for him and if there's an argument to be made that maybe you should take. If you're the San Jose Sharks, maybe you should pass on a defenseman and take Stenberg. I think he's making as strong a case right now as he has made to date, and he has just been so, so, so good. So, yeah, I'm sort of digging my heels in on those two wingers being the two top prospects in this class. And I think Stenberg is really, really close with Gavin. For me, at this point, the issue
- [06:13]
Corey Pronman
I would have with San Jose is, I think the popular argument is take Stenberg and trade something down. Take the best player, depends how you define best player, and then trade a piece for a defenseman. That seems to be a common argument I've heard. But we saw that issue with Toronto over the years is like, well, we just. Just trade Nylander for a defenseman and, you know, you know, trade Martyr for a defenseman. You know, it's easier said than done because nobody wants to give you a top pair defenseman for William Eklund. That's. That's not how that's going to work. Nobody's going to want to give you an elite defenseman for Stenberg. It's it. You know, you trade Misa for an offensive, now you, now you don't have a center. Will Smith, I don't know if he's going to get you any elite defenseman. It's these. Are these are kind of the tensions that are working with here. And I guess, you know, we've talked about this before, you know, Scott, you think they're a cut above. You know, I could buy the. Stenberg's the second best player in the draft. Like, I think it's a very reasonable argument to make. I would push back on there being like a clear cut above. Like, I think, I think we get to the Vancouver. I think there's some really passionate arguments. Like you can't pass on Stenberg here. You're leaving a ton of buy on the table. I could see the argument that you're leaving some value on the table going from him to Malhotra. I would push back that you're leaving a lot of value on the table. Like if Stenberg is a one wing and Malhotra is a 2C, you know, a solid 2C, like, that's. Those are pretty close in terms of like comparable players. We've mentioned Raymond on the last show. Like, like Raymond versus a 2C. You probably prefer Raymond, but are you like really like that? Much more excited by it.
- [07:58]
Scott Wheeler
I think Stenberg, the, the, the, the challenge with that is that I think Stenberg's a better player at this age than I thought Raymond was. And so my projection would be sure beyond, beyond the career that Lucas Raymond has had to date.
- [08:10]
Corey Pronman
No, that's fair. I guess I just. I have no problem if San Jose takes him. I think that's a very. Reason. It's very defensible pick. It's a very reasonable pick. I just don't think like it's a fireball offense. Like, I think there's. Yeah, I don't think he's that much different from Reed or from Smiths or from Kamal Houtra. That's just my, that's just my perspective.
- [08:28]
Chris Peters
The, the interesting thing about the world championship element of this whole thing is that, you know, Stenberg is produced at a rate where literally no one in the last 25 years has gone lower than second overall. However you look at that, who is the number one scoring draft eligible player in that span? Patrick Line A. His first couple of years were amazing. But you know, long term, has that really panned out all the way that you know, to his, his projection capo Kako is another one. But then you also have Auston Matthews, you have your I. Slavkovsky, you have Simone Nemech in that, in that range as well of points. And all of them went in the top two. And so this is making the argument for the fans that prefer Stenberg much easier. I do love posting factual statements on Twitter and watching everyone else project what they think. I'm trying to say by putting that stat out, it was merely a fact that, that that was true that that he is. He has seven or eight points in the World World Championship this year, which is among the top scoring draft eligible players. But what does that ultimately mean? And also this World Championship, I've been watching it pretty bad. Yeah, pretty bad. Pretty darn bad.
- [09:47]
Corey Pronman
Yeah, it's one.
- [09:48]
Chris Peters
It's one of the worst in a while.
- [09:50]
Corey Pronman
Yeah, it's an Olympic year World Championship. All the, all the NHL is it mean a lot of those top nations are knocking NHL players. I think when it comes. And this applies to Stenberg and to Bjork and to Albert Smith's. I think let's focus on the two suites played in the shl. I think you can argue a lot of the teams they've played in this World Championships are lower quality than some of the teams they've. They would play regularly with their club team. Quite frankly. It's. It's not, it's, you know, it's. I'm not trying to insult like these teams. It's just not a good World Championships.
- [10:24]
Max Bultman
Is that mostly. I mean, the, the Olympic argument we're really talking about. I mean Team Canada is still pretty darn good. It's not an Olympic year Canada. But by world standards, I think it's on par with a Team Canada. USA is way down. Sweden, their own team is down. But you know, Finland's got going for them. Right? I mean, it's why they're in the first line role, certainly.
- [10:42]
Corey Pronman
Yeah.
- [10:43]
Max Bultman
But I don't, you know, I don't see any difference between this and what a Urice Levkovsky would have been up against with maybe the exception of like a Team usa.
- [10:51]
Scott Wheeler
He also has been way better than the kid who went third overall a year ago. And we're talking about mocking him at fourth overall in this class. Now maybe this class is stronger. I. I'm not sure we actually view this class as stronger. But him and Frondell, like, it's not even. It doesn't even look close to me in terms of the level that they're. That they're playing at.
- [11:11]
Chris Peters
All right.
- [11:12]
Max Bultman
So a couple other things toward the back of this scout mock. Corey. I thought it was interesting. Ethan Belches is. Is above both Bjork and Tynan Lawrence, and I don't think Bjork actually even got a vote. And that really surprised me because as much as I Get it's. It's the small center. He's got kind of the elements that I think every team's looking for when you have a small player. Is he an elite skater? Maybe not elite, but he's an above average skater and he works like a dog on a bone. Were you surprised that Viggo Bjork didn't get any votes into the top 10 here and do you think that should tell us something about what to expect a month from now?
- [11:46]
Corey Pronman
Mildly. The survey was done over the last two weeks. So I feel like if I would have done it over the last few days with the men's world championship data in mind, maybe he would have gotten a little bit more love. I do know some of the people I talked to did have him in their personal top 10.
- [12:01]
Scott Wheeler
Even.
- [12:01]
Corey Pronman
Even if they didn't, that's a distinction. This exercise was projecting how they thought the draft was going to go. You know, I made some notes in the article about what people actually thought. And in case of Bjork, there were some people I talked to that had bjork in their 6 to 10 range even if that were not where they were projecting him to go. I kind of feel like in my discussions with the league there's a kind of a solid top eight and he's not in that top eight right now. That would be the two wingers, Malhotra and that group of defensemen. And then things kind of break open and I think he's in that conversation with. But I just felt like especially coming up the U18s and they just. You have that big defense, multi Guffs, then that's getting a lot of love. You have White Cullen, who's getting a lot of love and I think Bjork would kind of be in that group with them right now if I was doing if doing a projection. But I wasn't. I was a little surprised. I wasn't shocked. But I feel like if I would have said mock the top 12, he would have gotten votes there. Yeah.
- [12:59]
Max Bultman
The other name that was in there though, and Bjork was not Nikita Klepov is in. So he got a vote.
- [13:06]
Robert Mase
Someone.
- [13:06]
Max Bultman
Someone's 10vote went to Nikita Klepov. Scott, I know you're really high on this player. I'll let you start here. Like, could you see a world where Nikita Klepov is going top, let's say 15.
- [13:16]
Scott Wheeler
Top 15. Yes. Top 10. I would, I. That would probably be the first. I would expect that. That's the first surprise of the draft for me. If that were to, if it were to go that way, like, that would feel kind of like Ben Kindle felt a year ago. We all liked Ben Kindle. I had Ben Kindle in the teens on my list. I thought I was higher than most on Kindle. Obviously the Penguins were even higher on Kindle. So I think it would take that kind of belief from a team in Nikita Klapov now in saying that I know in talking to people around Saginaw, people around the ohl, NHL scouts there, there are some people who really like Klepov. Like there, there is real respect out there for Klepov, the game he plays, the season he had. But I think if you're talking about mocking the top 10 of the draft, I would be pretty surprised. Corey kind of talked about that second tier of, of forwards after the two wings in Malhotra, and I just think that he's not quite in that group with Bjork and Lawrence and, and Cullen and Belches. Like those are kind of the four names that I would expect to go in that sort of 10 to 15 range. And then I think after that you get into Klepov being in that next group. Like, like could he go in the teens? Absolutely. Could he go in the early twenties, mid twenties also? Yes. Ten would be, would be a little bit of a surprise for me.
- [14:33]
Max Bultman
Led the OHL in scoring this year. Was close to being 100 point player. Corey, I know you and I, I've side slacked you about this player because he's a hard one to know what to make of. When I watched him, my first thought was, okay, maybe Matt Zuccarello, but there are also guys of this profile. He's not super small, but he's 6 0. I wouldn't say he's like a dynamic skating type. He can. He's got a little shiftiness, but there's a lot of guys like that who end up as AHL guys too.
- [14:59]
Corey Pronman
I think with Klepov, the argument comes down to his compete level. I think everybody sees the skill led, like I said, let the OHL scoring. Everyone sees that he's a, he's a highly skilled and intelligent creative winger. I think everyone kind of sees that it's good skating. It's not premier skating. So then the argument comes down to his compete level. The people who think he competes, maybe not competes off the puck, doesn't compete defensively, but he competes inside the offensive zone. They think he wins enough puck battles, gets to the net enough. They view him as a top 15 top 20 pick this year and then kind of where I fall, where I think it's fine compete. I don't think it's a major asset. I have concerns about how he's going to fare at higher levels that that group of people tend to have a more as like a late one, high two type.
- [15:45]
Max Bultman
All right. There's a really, a lot of really good stuff in there. Would definitely encourage everyone to check it out. There's also kind of a companion piece where it's it's a survey about specifically the defense minute that I would definitely encourage everybody to check out. Goes well with our last week's episode. We're gonna take a quick break right there. We're gonna come back and talk about a very different mock that we did. And it sounds like Cory and I might have to answer for some crimes. Stick with us.
- [16:08]
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- [17:14]
Max Bultman
hablas espanol par le italiano.
- [17:17]
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- [18:55]
Max Bultman
All right, we are back. And the other mock draft we had dropped this week, guys, just came out on Wednesday. It was our if I were a GM mock. So I guess calling it a mock Scott, maybe not totally accurate. We are, we are basically. But what we're trying to do is simulate the actual draft and, and where there's big preference differences that can lead to unexpected results. And we see this happen, you know, every year there's, there's something that happens and people go, whoa. That wasn't in anyone's projection. But it's because you know that the projections don't know each individual team's list. So our way of simulating that was to have you, Corey and I alternate who, who was the GM for a given team. And the results were, were very interesting. I mean there are some lively comments on this one, but Chris, the top five picks here, I'll just give you in order. Toronto takes Chase Reed. That was a Corey pick. San Jose takes Carson. Carl's. That was me. Scott took Gavin McKenna for Vancouver. Corey took Albert Smith for Chicago. The Rangers land Ivar Stenberg at five. That one was me. And then at six, Caleb Malhotra to Calgary via Scott. As I tell you that top of the draft, what stands out to you most? I know there's a lot to choose from.
- [20:02]
Chris Peters
Well, yeah, I mean, you know, I, I, I think if you read Corey's board, then you knew that Chase Reed was going to go number one. And so that's, that's, that's fine. I have much, you know, like that's, that makes a lot of sense to me. I think if you're the San Jose Sharks, you're disappointed, but I don't think that you're so disappointed that your next move is to pick Carson Carls and have the 500th left shot defenseman in your system. No offense Max. This pick was by you. You were Mike Greer in this instance and you said, I don't, you know, if, if our entire D just is left handed for the foreseeable future, that's totally fine with me and I respect it because I think, you know, sometimes we can get too wrapped up in handedness. I do think though at some point you might want to say there, there are right handed defensemen in the world and we may want to try to add one of those defensemen. But either way, I think that was the surprise because you know, if, if say the top right shot defenseman is off the board and we think that would be Chase Reed, you know, then I think San Jose would have to recalibrate and then go into that discussion of is it McKenna or Stenberg that fits our, our team? And to be honest with you, if I'm looking between those two players, the one that I feel fits better is Stenberg.
- [21:19]
Max Bultman
I, yeah, I think I get what you're saying because McKenna and Will Smith have a lot of rhyme in their games as kind of the perimeter playmaker and Stenberg would add a different flavor. I considered those things and I, I considered the handedness too. Look, if Reed was there, I think I would have taken Reed for, for that reason. But I do think Carl's has a real argument as not only the right pick for the Sharks, but the best D in the class overall. Like I think we would all label him probably the hardest to play against defensemen in this group. Is that fair to say? And then I also would point and say, well, one of the best offensive D in this group is Dax and Rudolph. We just watched Carson Carls out produce him on a per game basis in the same league. And not only did he outproduce Dax and Rudolph, he outproduced every Western hockey league under 18 defenseman for the last 25 years. Like I, I realize that when you watch him, like the skill is not the standout trait and maybe the playmaking's not the standout trait. The shot is probably his best offensive tool, but the collection of offensive tools still made him an extremely, extremely productive defenseman while also being 6 foot 2, while also being the toughest to play against and probably most physical of this group. I don't see why that doesn't make him a really strong candidate if not the best defenseman in the class. It reminds me a lot of the conversations we had about Jake Sanderson in 2020. And it was like, okay, well yeah, he's this good skating kind of transition defender. But then if you looked dug a little deeper under the numbers and I remember Corey, you put this in a story like he was not that far off where the Hughes brothers had been prot productivity wise, it just didn't look the same. And I think if you go Back to the 2020 class, the debate at, at 1 is Tim Stutzler or Jake Sanderson. And Jake Sanderson might win that debate. I mean, depending on the night. I think you can argue Jake Sanderson is the Ottawa Senator's most important player. Stutz was a center. I get that. There's not a center here that I'm debating between. So when I look at that, I, you know, we, we've talked about Ivar Stenberg as maybe a comparable to Lucas Raymond. You know, Gavin McKenna is probably a notch higher than that offensively, at least in terms of the pure upside. But I think you're probably taking Sanderson and a lean over Raymond in a redraft there. And so I go back to it and whether, whether it's Sanderson, you know, I think he's not quite the skater Sanderson was, but he's more physical. Maybe that's more McEvoy, maybe that's more Faber. All three of those guys, I'd have no, no compunction taking it number two in a draft.
- [23:30]
Corey Pronman
The people I talked to in the league that have Carl's as their best defenseman will point also to the fact that he out produced Chase Reed this season. I mean they didn't have the underage profile, but he's a lot younger. I think he's one of the younger players. He's, he's a, I think he' June or July, you know. 08. Whereas you know, McKenna and Reed, they're, they're, they're late births.
- [23:50]
Scott Wheeler
Denver.
- [23:51]
Corey Pronman
So yeah, Stenberg to a late birth. So there's a distinction there. So yeah, you know, I don't know if offense is really his calling card but I mean the offense he showed this year was extremely impressive. I remember watching with the WHL showcase game and he made way more plays than Rudolph did in that game. Like he definitely, he definitely has like power play potential in the NHL. Quick question for you, Chris. You mentioned all the left handed D in San Jose. Can you go through the good ones out of curiosity?
- [24:23]
Chris Peters
The good ones the good ones. Let's see, we got Sam Dickinson. I'm going to end the list at that point.
- [24:33]
Corey Pronman
Okay. That I was just.
- [24:34]
Chris Peters
That's a fair point. And that's honestly that's.
- [24:36]
Max Bultman
Would you take Dickinson or Carl's? Like, I would say Carl's would be your number one defenseman at that point over Dickinson.
- [24:41]
Chris Peters
I probably would say that as well. And, and that, that. And I think Max, for one, I think you made a very strong argument for that. And I also agree, like, typically when we're talking about that high in the draft, handedness really shouldn't matter that much. I just thought it was funny that they just have all left shot defensemen and a couple of righties in their, in their system. But. Yeah, but I mean I think that really the. He is an intriguing player and I do think like the way that your guys's board went is not out of the realm of possibility. Like, that's the thing is like I think people are continuing to look at this draft as this black and white argument and they're only talking about two players when it really isn't. And I think unfortunately the amount of content we can put out that says this isn't exactly how it's how we think it's going to go, it doesn't seem to matter. So that's. So, I mean, we can keep talking about it till we're blue in the face, but I think this illustrates that this is not the cut and dry answer that everybody want it to be.
- [25:44]
Corey Pronman
The other pushback we got, defensive wise is when obviously when I got Smith's going a four to Chicago, I think
- [25:49]
Scott Wheeler
that was a lot of for me,
- [25:51]
Corey Pronman
there's a lot of Chicago fans that want them to take a forward and kind of the same question I just asked Chris there, who are the good defensemen in Chicago again? I mean right now, not the young guys. You think that might be good one day? Like right now you're playing, you're trying to win a game today. Who are these like awesome top four defensemen they have right now?
- [26:10]
Max Bultman
I think classic is really good and I think Lev Shinov will be good very quickly and I think there is
- [26:17]
Scott Wheeler
a case to be made that between Renzel, Levshinov, Korchinski.
- [26:22]
Max Bultman
I like, to be honest, I like to.
- [26:25]
Scott Wheeler
You can't bring, if you were to add a fourth young guy to that group, you can't possibly bring them all along together. And I know Korchinski is already in a difficult spot there in terms of his fit in the, in the lineup and his progression and it just hasn't gone according to what you would hope for for a seventh overall pick. But I think that like they, they, they need that premium running mate for Connor Bedard, someone who can elevate Connor Bedard instead of Connor Bedard having to elevate everybody else. They need that more than they need another second pair. Number two, number three, young defenseman that you're hoping to, to develop into a really good player for you. Like they're going to get that from one of. Even if they don't get it from all three of those guys, they're going to get one of Lev Shun over. Renzel is going to become a really good player for them. I don't know that any of the wingers that are playing within their team are going to become running mates for Connor Bedard.
- [27:23]
Chris Peters
Maybe.
- [27:24]
Scott Wheeler
Unless maybe you think Cancer Cancerov is that maybe.
- [27:26]
Corey Pronman
But I think really highly of Cancer off. But like my thought process was if you want to incorporate position and need and depth chart when it comes to Vlasic. Yeah, I can buy that he's a good player. Lev Shunov, he hasn't done it yet but I think he's a good player. But I'm not making a fourth overall decision based on Sam Renzel who's not really shown anything as a pro and I don't think so I can elite. He's a pretty good prospect. Not an elite prospect. Korchinski is kind of hanging on for dear life right now in that, in that organization. Definitely not making a fourth overall decision based on Louis Crevier's development. Like he's a fine player. He's become way better than you thought. But I'm not, not picking a player 4th overall based on how he where he fits in the depth chart. But I think that argument is sound like they need a more high end skill. The other concern I had with Chicago was okay, you bring in Stenberg and now the four group is Bedard, Nazar Moore, Stenberg, Cancerov in front who's a little bit, you know, the biggest side. Yeah, like it's a lot of some like Stenberg's like really competitive and he's, he's a little, maybe closer to six, zero, whatever kind of thing. But it's like there is some rhymes there where you, you're still looking for. You don't need to have a ton of beef. I think there's been some really good four groups that have won. Even the Carolinas four group right now doesn't have a ton of beef. But you got to have something in there that can do that. And it wasn't why I made the decision. I have Smith as a better player but if I but these were like mild tiebreakers for me as well. Even though I, I agree that if you had to pick me a defenseman, a forward, yeah, probably they could use a forward more if you really looked at the organization as a whole. But I think, I don't think this despite how many assets they've used on defense, but I don't think their defense pipeline is so strong that you would forego a guy who I think has a really good chance becoming all situations defenseman in the NHL.
- [29:22]
Max Bultman
The pick I struggled with the most just to. Just to steer it a little bit here was at eight for Winnipeg and I was between Vgo Bjork and Daxon Rudolph. And I think Winnipeg needs a center and they need a right shot. D. I went with the center partly because I think Bjork can get there quicker and I think the age of Winnipeg's core that's going to be valuable in their situation. But I want to know Scott, like you're picking right behind me. I'm sure you were kind of trying to size up what was going to happen in front of the Florida Panthers at nine. What did you, what did you make of that decision? How would you have approached that one?
- [29:53]
Scott Wheeler
Well, it certainly feels like the feedback from jets fans, at least in every mock we've done, is that they desperately want a center. Like it's almost like jets fans have no interest in even thinking about the defenseman. They just want Tynan Lawrence or Viggo Bjork or whoever of the centers is the flavor of the day there. I think Rudolph is an interesting one though. A. I think there is something to if you're a Calgary or a Winnipeg, I think there's something to drafting Canadian kids with the way that free agency goes tends to go for them. So I do think they will consider those strongly consider those western Canadian kids. I'm not sure whether Verhoff and certainly Carols won't be there at, at that point but I think the Rudolphs, the Verhoffs like those guys who, who play in the WHL who are from out that way. I do think that is at least a small consideration. But they, they. They need the center like they need the center of the a top six center once Scheifele and co age out here. So. But again I don't think you make your decision for those for either of if you're Calgary or Winnipeg, I don't think you make your decision based off of positional need and especially for Winnipeg with their pool being much thinner than where Calgary's is at. Like, there's. The jets need everything. Like, Colby Barlow was terrible this year and doesn't look like he's on the right path. And you go through the list, they've got a couple of nice stories. Kieran Walton's a nice story for them. Sal Monson's a nice story for them. But go through Lambert and Lucius, obviously, who's now retired. Like, there's been some misses there, and they need to replenish that pool pretty quickly here. So the focus should be getting a really good player.
- [31:34]
Corey Pronman
Scott, question for you. On your last draft list, you put out, you had Dax and Rudolph at 10, Tyler Lawrence at 11, and you had Ryan Lin at 9. But in this exercise where we're going off our preferences, you took Rudolph ahead of Lynn, and then you took Lawrence ahead of Lynn. Has something changed for you? Was it like, were there tiebreakers there? How did you break down those decisions? So that just to be clear, you took Lawrence at 12 to New Jersey, Rudolph at 9 to Florida, then ultimately Lynn at 15 to St. Louis.
- [32:08]
Scott Wheeler
I think the Panthers are likely to. To sort of prioritize a D there. So it came down to Rudolph or win. I went with Rudolph, edge to Rudolph, who has. Who is one spot ahead of rain on my wrist. My upcoming final list will be Rudolph 9, Lynn 10, and Lawrence 11. So I have switched 9 and 10 on my list just based off the playoffs that. That Rudolph had the other one. I just, I just cannot see the New Jersey Devils taking another D. Another D man. So that, that ruled out win altogether. Like, I didn't even really think about win there. It's close to him and Lawrence are back to back on my list, and there's just no way with them trying to already move, potentially move out some of those young D. No path for Seamus Casey, who's been a very good AHL player. The Devils weren't really a consideration for win, but I did consider win versus Rudolph with the other pick and sort of leaned Rudolph, which is where my list is at right now.
- [33:04]
Corey Pronman
Does Lynn have to be a power play guy, though, to have success? Like, I feel like Seamus Casey has to be a powerful guy. I feel like Lynn can be like an Alex Carrier type of guy in the NHL if he doesn't become like a power play guy.
- [33:15]
Scott Wheeler
Yeah, he's competitive enough to be that, but I think ultimately he's. He's going to be a power play guy in the league. Like, that's where my projection is on Lynn.
- [33:25]
Max Bultman
At least one more guy I want to get to before we take a break here is. Is the guy you picked at 22 for Pittsburgh, Gleb Pugachev, not a guy we've talked about a whole lot, but a guy you have ranked really high on your list. Like for people who are hearing that name for the first time two seconds ago, what should they know about Gleb?
- [33:42]
Corey Pronman
I think he's an almost identical player to Oscar Heming except that he's Russian. So he. And he played in Russia this year. So there's more risks and uncertainties there. He's got. He's gonna have a pro contract and have to play a few years out there with. With the Torpedo organization. But he's been a very promising junior player over there in Russia. Has been very, you know, good. Two good years in the MHL. Played well in the KHL and the VHL this year against Men 6, 3 winger who skates well. One of the most physical players in the draft. Might be the hardest hitting player in the draft. You know, you think of like where Tyler Boucher went when he went 10th overall. Like this is more of like a 6:3 version of him without the injury issues, you know. You know, he's a loud, physical player with good secondary skills. Like, I think there's a lot there to get excited about. I think he's got a path to the league to be a guy who plays in the middle of a lineup and plays in a very endearing way. And I don't think there's. It's perfectly analogous, but I think of like where when Sirin went 20th overall to Nashville a couple of years ago. He's a centerman, but the same type of traits that got you excited about him. Sirin probably a little bit more offense and he's a center this guy's bigger with and a wing. But I think there's still a lot there to be excited about with Pugachev when it comes to projecting him out as a pro.
- [35:04]
Max Bultman
All right, let's take a quick break right there. You can go. Ready? The full. If I were a GM mock draft on the athletic. We'll come back. We're gonna talk about the goalies and the overagers in this class.
- [35:16]
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- [35:47]
Robert Mase
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- [36:22]
Max Bultman
Parle tu francais? Hablas espanol par les italiano?
- [36:26]
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- [37:05]
Max Bultman
All right, we are back and before we wrap today I two more things I want to talk about here. One is the goalie class and Cory there there was only one who made it into the if I were a GM mock Tobias. Is it Tray Ball? Am I saying that right?
- [37:16]
Corey Pronman
Yes.
- [37:17]
Max Bultman
Yeah.
- [37:17]
Bombas Advertiser
So.
- [37:17]
Max Bultman
So I'm assuming he's the number one. How many goalies at the top of this class, let's say the first two rounds, should fans know about going in?
- [37:25]
Corey Pronman
Yeah, I I think he's the Trey Ball's the likeliest goalie to go first. I don't think he's a guarantee, but you look at the body of work, he was one of the very best goalies in the USHL this season. 6 4. Athletic, structured, intelligent, played a lot of games. Like there's there's a lot of boxes that he checks and I think gives teams confidence that he can be a quality pro prospect. There's some other names in the conversation. I think some people like Philip Rzika a lot. He wasn't always the starting goalie for Brandon, he split starts to start the year, but he had a really good season. Was one of the better goalies in the Western Hockey League, especially in the second half. Six foot six, a little unorthodox type of goalie, but there's a lot of interest there. Dmitry Borichev in Russia, there's a lot of interest there. He's very talented, very athletic. The concerns there is the sample size. I think he only played like 20 games this year. He split starts with three other goalies on his team in, in Russia. So he was one of four goalies. So between the Russian factor, the lack of viewings, there's some risk factors there. But Simeon Frolov had those issues last year. He still went high. Second round to Carolina. And then there's just like this giant bucket of Czech goalies when Trey Ball is check. But like I've talked to teams and they'll like there's so many check goalies this year. It's actually kind of like funny like I. There could be 6, 7, 8 Czech goalies drafted this season. It'll give their, it'll give their world junior team some difficulty when it comes to building their team out next year. But I think, you know, Sholovek, who was really, really impressive at the U18 Worlds, I think has a chance to go second round, maybe third round. Huge goalie, six, five moves reasonably well, very structured and intelligent. And the other goal I think is getting a lot of interest is Patrick's Plumans who played all year in the Latvian pro league. It's not usually where we look to, to get NHL prospects. But his U18s was, you know, he was the best goalie at the U18s. You know, he was the, I would argue one of the sole reasons why the US team got eliminated in that, you know, that really tough quarterfinal result for them with a. I think he had 50 or 51 saves in that, in that game. I mean he just looks like a really like high end hockey sense, you know, with good size type of goalie and like that to me right now is the, is the top group. I think it's likely Trey Ball. I think you'll see two or three other names go in that second round. I can't guarantee you what, who those names are going to be though.
- [40:04]
Scott Wheeler
Samuel Herenics, one who finished really, really strong too, obviously led the Slovovaks to their second ever silver medal at U18 Worlds and was tremendous at U18 Worlds. Sholvak Plumans and Herenick were all three excellent at U18 Worlds. But I, I was texting with some people from Fargo yesterday because he played nine game. He went seven one and one with Fargo before leaving to play for Slovakia on home ice at U18 worlds. And he was like way better than they were even expecting. And he sort of came over from Slovakia. He was playing junior hockey in Slovakia, came over, played a little bit in Fargo and then went to, to U18s with Slovakia and was tremendous in Fargo. Tremendous for Slovakia. Athletic, reads the play well, good hands, all of those things. But he's, he's an interesting one just because the sample size over here is quite small and the Slovak junior level is the Slovak junior level. But the U18 Worlds is another sort of sample size for him and I'll be interested. I don't know whether he's in that top group and he's not someone I've asked around with scouts about quite yet, but I'll be interested to see where he goes because the last 15, 20 games that he played this year were high, high level.
- [41:17]
Corey Pronman
Then the other goalie that I think, he didn't make my list for some reasons I'll get into. But the goalie that I think has a lot of talent that he understand is Igor Ripken, who plays over in Russia. You know, very talented, six foot, I think it's like six, six or six foot, seven goalie. And he moves like okay for his size. He had some significant health issues this season though. You know, it's like not like a broken knee or something like that. It's so it. So I don't know where he's going to go, but I think that's going to be one that I'll be intrigued to see what the end result is for him this summer.
- [41:53]
Chris Peters
All right.
- [41:54]
Max Bultman
The other thing then, Scott, would be your overager list. And this is always an interesting one because I feel like we have had some pretty good reentry prospects in the last four or five years. Top name on your list this year is Igor Barabanov.
- [42:05]
Corey Pronman
Ballpark.
- [42:06]
Max Bultman
Where do you expect him to go and what would be the kind of the best case outcome here?
- [42:11]
Scott Wheeler
Barabanov had a huge year like he was, he was a driver at times on a very, albeit on a very, very good line like he played with, with Klepov and Jilkin, who are two legit prospects. But he was the center for, for that trio and he showed up a lot in the OHL coaches poll, which is usually a sign of sort of the respect that he had that these players have around the league, like the OHL coaches, viewed Barabanov as one of the most skilled, playmaking, talented offensive players in their league this year that they saw, and that's a testament to him. He's now going to UMass. He was originally committed to Penn State, but decommitted. He's committed to UMass. He's got size, he's a little rangy. Oftentimes those Russians come over and they're kind of underdeveloped physically and that's. He still has that, although he was over here previously playing in the, in the USHL prior. But just like a smart, heady Center. He's 6 1, he can make plays, he's got skill, he's got some sense, he's competitive enough. I wouldn't say he's super physical or it's a defining trait or anything, but he's competitive enough and I think he's got a real chance to be a very, very good college player for UMass. I know UMass is really, really excited about what he could be for them over two or three years there, whatever it looks like. So I, I would expect that he goes like, maybe not for sure in the second round, but I think he's got a chance to go in the second round and then third round for sure for a kid like that. There are Some other interesting OAs people will know that a couple of the names near the top there from the World Juniors. Thomas Galvis has played at three World Juniors. Was not just one of the best defensemen in the World Juniors this year, but one of the best players at the World Juniors this year and had a really successful season in at the Czech professional level this year, running a power play and playing 20 minutes a night and that kind of a thing. 5:10, 5:11. Skinny defenseman, though. He skates very, very well. Like, impressive mobility, but the size has kind of held him back from being drafted. I'll be interested in his third crack at it, whether he gets drafted. I would expect that he will now and if he doesn't, he's. He's going to get a development camp invite and that kind of a thing immediately after. Mackenzie's a little bit bigger. Also a great skater. Going to North Dakota next year as part of their freshman class. Really, really good WHL defenseman obviously was solid and rose from number seven. He was, I believe he was the number seven D to start for Canada. And then he ran their second power play briefly and finished this, finished the tournament kind of playing in their top four a little bit and the skating and competitiveness and athletic profile is really interesting. There's, there's a couple of other sort of D that I heard about today after my list dropped. A lot of love out there for, for Timothy Runso who's a Miami University commit, sort of really big, rangy, athletic, strong bodied, sort of pro look, firm defenseman who's probably going to be a very, very good college defenseman by the time he's an upperclassman. So lots of names. I've heard a lot of positive feedback from scouts and QMJHL people over the course of this year. For Nico Tness who's sort of a big, another double overager but became a very, very important and in stretches of this season was one of the best forwards for Monkton who obviously went to the WHL final and nearly made the Memorial Cup. So there, there are some interesting players and the OAs are always interesting because I don't think the average fan realizes how many of them actually get picked every year. I crunched the numbers a few years ago and I haven't updated it, but I crunched the numbers a few years ago and it's like 29 or 30 always year get drafted. So you're talking about basically one out of seven rounds on draft day. So they, you do need to sort of continue to follow these kids even as they pass through the draft.
- [45:46]
Corey Pronman
I think Liam Lefebvre from Chicoutimi has a chance to go in the second round too. I think there's a lot of NHL
- [45:52]
Scott Wheeler
interest there and Lefebvre, Van Vanahan, Van Heinen are both playing at the Mem cup to sort of close out the year with Everett and Chicoutimi here. So yeah, Matthias led, Matthias led Van and led Everett in scoring this year and they're, they might win the Mem Cup.
- [46:07]
Chris Peters
So yeah, interesting players. Lefebvre for sure was a, was excellent down the stretch for Shakudemi in there in their playoff run and then you know, now getting in there. But the other thing to your point, Scott, I think that we're going to see a lot more overagers. As you know, the landscape has shifted. Players are moving around. Nico Tornas was in the North American League last year, you know, so he goes from the North American League to the qmjl, goes to one of the best teams, immediately makes an impact and you know, showed great scoring ability. So I think that that's a really impressive thing for, for him. But we're going to continue to see that, you know, especially now with what what appears to be a lot of momentum that this 5 and 5 rule is going to come into the NCAA. Players are going to potentially be advancing to college hockey a little bit sooner, still be draft eligible, still be guys that that could be selected and and I think that we're going to see some of those guys create more opportunities for themselves to get picked with that little extra, extra bit of Runway. So there's a lot of things kind of up in the air, but you know, the overagers are certainly going to probably only increase in draft value as we go forward.
- [47:08]
Max Bultman
All right, that's going to do it for us today. A lot of good stuff. Make sure you're reading all this stuff on the Athletic guys. Scott Corey are pumping out stuff as well as Chris of course, over at FLO Hockey, but that is going to do it for us. Thanks for listening. This episode of the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect series. Remember, you can go find more of Chris at FLO Hockey on his podcast called up. We'll talk to you soon.
- [47:30]
Corey Pronman
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- [47:47]
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- [48:14]
Robert Mase
This is Robert Mase from the Athletic Football Show. The Men's Wearhouse is here to make you look and feel good, no matter the occasion. From formal to casual, dressed down to dressed up. Their in store experts will help you find the right outfit for that thing you got on the calendar and their on site tailors will make sure the fit is perfect for your body. Suits, tuxes, sport coats, jeans, shorts, chinos, T shirts, polos, low loafers, sneakers, sandals, underwear. Get ready to look and feel good for anything from head to toe by visiting Men's Wearhouse today. Men's Wearhouse Love the way you look.