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A
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B
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Old school security kicks in after the break in Too late.
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C
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B
This is the Athletic Hockey Show.
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D
What's up everybody? Welcome back to the Athletic Hockey Show. It's Haley Salvian, Sha Gentili and Jesse Granger here with you as Preview season continues here on the pod. As you've heard already this week, we're switching things up this year and going in depth on every team in the NHL with our amazing beat writers around the athletic. And we're wrapping things up with the Pacific Division today. Last but probably not least, Jesse, you're in Vegas. What do you think? Could the cup get back to the Pacific this season?
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B
West coast is the best coast. We have the best time zone. I don't know if the Cup's going to be here, but we definitely have the best time zone.
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D
I thought, I always thought Mountain time was actually the superior one.
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B
I've lived in both.
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D
Little bit like one hour too early for me.
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B
I lived. I grew up in Denver, so I've lived in both. About half and half of my life has been spent in either. They're both excellent. When I go on the East Coast, I don't know how you guys do it.
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E
9Am College football on the west coast is as good as it gets, baby.
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B
Beautiful, Ohio.
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E
Ohio state, Michigan at 9 or whatever. I'll take.
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B
Yep, beautiful.
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D
Sean, do you have a quick thought on the strength of the division before we get going here too? What do you think about the Pacific?
- [04:04]
E
I think there's a chance for movement in the middle and towards the bottom. That's like my overriding stance on, on the Pacific heading into the season. I think we saw it last year where the Flames out kick their coverage a little bit and finished, you know, right in the thick of things really into the last, the last day or two of, of the schedule. And I think there's a possibility to have like a replay of that again for sure. There's, there's more room for. More for movement there than you know, when you look at this, if you're comparing it to the Central or the Atlantic or whatever. And I think that's what interests me the most.
- [04:39]
D
Yeah, you've got the chaos of the Vancouver Canucks. The Calgary Flames are interesting. Obviously some movement at the bottom of the standings in the division, too. Will they get into the playoffs? Probably not. But some interesting teams to watch in Anaheim, San Jose. We're going to be joined throughout the show today by our beat writers who cover these teams. Thomas Drance, Julian McKenzie, Shayna Goldman, Daniel Nugent, Bowman E. Stevens and of course, Jesse Granger. And Jesse, you're going to change hats from host to our first guest of the show. And I think it's only fair to start with Vegas, who added the very best player on the market this off season. Let's Start there. What are your first impressions and what can we expect from Mitch Marner? Obviously that's who we're talking about here in year one in Vegas.
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B
Yeah, it's pretty much what the Golden Knights do, right? Pretty much every off season, every trade deadline, whatever the prize fish that everyone is going after, the Golden Knights just get that player.
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D
And yeah, and everyone reacts like super.
- [05:35]
B
Normally and it's been very calm, so. And then the fact that they did the sign and trade and there was all that noise around that very quiet offseason for the Golden Knights. But they, I mean, this team is so aggressive. They do you. We, we sit here and complain about these teams that have a clear weakness and they refuse to address it. The Golden Knights, when there's a weakness, they address it as aggressively as they possibly can. And last year, this team's biggest weakness was on the wing. They had one of the best defensive cores in the league. The goalies were fine. The centers with Jack Eichel, William Carlson, Tomas Hurdle, they are so stacked up the middle. But they had no one outside of Mark Stone and Pavel Dorothea on the wing that can score the puck. So they go out and they get the highest scoring winger in the NHL. So 100 point player Mitch Marner, it's going to be super interesting to see how he fits into the lineup. The initial lines that coach Bruce Cassidy has rolled out here for camp are Mitch Marner on the top line right next to Jack Eichel, which is exciting, especially if you're Ivan Barbachev who's on the left wing of that line. Any fantasy hockey players out there, a guy that is going to score a bunch of goals if that line sticks. Because you've got Jack Eichel and Mitch Marner, two of the best playmakers in the world. Neither of them prefer to shoot the puck. And Ivan Barbachev's only job is going to be go to the front of the net and clean up pucks. So if that line holds, that's a, that's a monster season into for. For Ivan Barbashev. But if not, Cassidy has so many options. This forward unit is stacked. I mentioned Mark Stone and Pavlodora Fiev and Tomas Hurdle. They have the ability to create three incredible lines. Offensive lines. Right now they've got Mark Stone with William Carlson and Riley Smith. That's a really good line. And then the third line is Dorothy of Hurdle and Brandon Sod, which was maybe their best, arguably their best line down the stretch last season. And then they've got a fourth line with players that can forecheck hard. Keegan Kolasar. So this team is stacked up front about as good as I've ever seen the Golden Knights up front. And they've. And they've had good forwards for pretty much their entire franchise history, so that's saying something.
- [07:40]
E
Yeah, that's obviously an incredibly deep group. You know, I know we're on the second full season of talking about Samash Hurdle as a second line center, but that, that is still just a wild conceit that we've got going on with Vegas there. Right. That's. He's such, he's been historically such a good player and he's decisively the number two there, which is, I would even.
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B
Argue three with William Carlson. I mean, it's unreal how good their centers are.
- [08:04]
E
Absolutely. I did want to ask about the, the defense, though. Over the summer, we hear that Alex Petrangelo stepping away from hockey because of hip injuries is not ruling out a potential future return, which is something we've heard over the last couple days here. But regardless, it's a gigantic hole in, in that group. What steps have they taken to fill it and what players do you expect to step up in his absence?
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B
Yeah, as good as the forward group looks, I could also argue that this is the worst that the blue line has looked and that's kind of been the anchor for this team for the last. I mean, going back to their cup final run, they really leaned on that blue line. And Alex Petrangelo was the key to all of that. He held a press conference the other day where he said he's not ruling out a return. I think that was more just semantics. I think that he and the team are both operating in a way that says he will not be playing hockey this year, and I would guess probably never again. But he's not going to rule it out. And he's an incredibly competitive athlete and one of the best of this generation, so maybe he'll make a return, but I, I really do not expect it this year. The Golden Knights don't have the cap space to bring him back, even if they, even if he was healthy. So they pretty much have to operate under the assumption that Alex Petrangelo is not going to play this season. And they still have really talented defensemen, Shea Theodore, Noah Hannifin, Braden McNabb. But they've never done the role that Petrangelo does, which is play 26 minutes a night. You're playing the toughest matchups you're getting, defensive zone draws the last Two minutes of the game, you're up a goal. You've got to prevent the other team from scoring. Like, that is Petrangelo. It's what he's done his entire life. It's what he's done for five years here in Vegas. And now all of a sudden, Shea Theodore is a incredibly talented player, and he's going to be asked to step up into a role he's never filled.
- [09:48]
E
His job changed significantly over the course of the off season. He's the guy who I look and say, like, what does this mean for Shea Theodore as a player, as a producer? You know, in. In the context of his role with that team? It's. It's really interesting, for sure.
- [10:03]
B
And I sat down with him a couple days ago and talked about it, and he even brought up that, like, it's hard, like, when you're not the guy, it's hard to be the guy. Like Petrangelo was that person. It's hard for you in a second line role or a second pairing role to just also be Alex Petrangelo. And he thinks, like, he's. He even mentioned that there were times where Petrangelo missed, like, long stretches of hockey over the last few years. And in those stretches, Shea Theodore played the best. He's. He's looked for the Golden Knights. So I think if you're a Golden Knights fan, that's encouraging that he has shown some signs that he can step up and be that. It's not just him, though. It's going to be. That's kind of like, we always see this. It's like every player kind of has to move up one role. So now it's not just Shay Theodore. The other defenseman on that top pair is Braden McNabb, who's coming off. He's 35 or he's going to be 35 this year. He's coming off probably his best season as a pro, but he's never been asked to play top pairing minutes in his entire life. And to ask a guy who has been a great defenseman but has never done that role at 35 to suddenly step into that role, you're asking a lot. They're also asking Zach White Cloud, who's going to be playing on the second pair with Noah Hannifin, to play more minutes than he's ever played. So to me, the biggest question marks on this team are all these defense. Are all these defensemen going to be able to take that step that you're all asking them to take? Because Alex Petrangelo is leaving A massive void.
- [11:19]
D
Noah Hannifin is the one that interests me the most. Just because, like, I don't know, I watched him in, in Calgary when he was more of a top pair, a top four guy, and I know it was a season in which he played largely with Chris Tanov, but I remember Hannifin being unbelievable in like 20, 21, 22, and that's several years ago now, but he's someone who could be really interesting in Calgary, in Vegas, excuse me, this season.
- [11:45]
E
Jesse, what do you expect his, his primary role to be in that group? Like, what are they going to ask of him? Because I think part of Hannifin's defining trade for me over the course of the last however many years is that he's, he's really good at a lot of different things, but he's not necessarily outstanding at any one thing in particular. So is there some, you know, is his role going to change in any, I guess in, in what specific ways? If, if any is his role going to change Given, given what's happened with that group over the last six months?
- [12:16]
B
Yeah, he's going to need to be more of a lockdown guy and he kind of was that at times last year, but it was always with Petrangelo. Like he. And it's different to be the second guy with Petrangelo on a pair than it is to be. You're the guy driving the pair with Zach White Cloud next to you. So in terms of his role, I think it's going to be similar in terms of like how much of like his responsibility in that is going up. I expect him to be kind of their shutdown guy.
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E
It's.
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B
He's, he's a more offensive leaning defenseman, but they, he was on the ice for way too many goals against last year, period. Like, I don't think Hanifin had a, like you watch the goals and you can look at him and say, okay, maybe that one wasn't his fault. But yeah, the numbers are. When, when the Golden Knights got scored against last year, Noah Hannifin was out there for a lot of them and that can't happen this year. So it's going to be, it's going to. They need him to be better defensively.
- [13:03]
D
Yeah, I think that's what makes him so compelling to, to keep an eye on here. Let's get to your specialty, Jesse. How are the Golden Knights looking between the pipes? Do they have what is necessary between the crease to maybe negate some of the holes or the question marks in the blue line?
- [13:20]
B
Yeah, it's, it's going to be a big season for Aiden Hill. Last year was a big season and he delivered. He's a guy that obviously he had the cup run and everybody, that's what everybody thinks of when they think of Aiden Hill because that was his shining moment and he played the best hockey of his life and was. Got Con Smythe votes and won a cup. He had never been the guy for a full season. He had never played 50 games. He had never been a workhorse starter. And last year he did that. He checked those boxes, he played. He hit the 50 game mark for the first time in his career. He stayed healthy and he was excellent. He wasn't as good in the playoffs as he had been, but it was such a small sample. It's tough to like. It's. I'm always hesitant to rule a goalie being bad after one bad playoff series.
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D
But yeah, I will say that he was very bad.
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B
Yes, it wasn't, it wasn't great. It wasn't great for. Against Edmonton. It was not. He, he was a, he was a enforcer in that series more than he was a goalie. He was like going after guys and checking them. But the thing that. My biggest question is not Aiden Hill when it comes to the goalies for the Golden Knights, it's going to be the backup position. Akira Schmid is lined up to be their backup right now. And with a goalie like Aiden Hill that has an injury history that had just barely hit 50 games for the first time, you can't lean on him too heavily or you're going to be without him. And to me, last year they had Ilya Samsonov, who is a perfect backup for Aiden Hill because he's been a starter. He played a ton of games for the Leafs. You could count on him. The coaches don't feel like they have to avoid starting him in big matchups. Now you get Akira Schmid, who doesn't have a ton of NHL experience. He played basically the entire season last year in the AHL and he lost his job in the AHL to the younger goalie down there in Henderson, Carl Lindbaum. So it was not a good season for him in the HL. He had a below.900 safe percentage. But then at the end of the season he comes up, up and he plays a few games for the Golden Knights and he looked awesome. He had like a.940 save percentage and he's, he's more of a mental goalie who relies on play reading and positioning more than athleticism. And I. I think you can argue that maybe the NHL is easier to play that style than the ahl where things are chaotic.
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D
Yeah. Less chaos.
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B
Yeah.
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C
Yeah.
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B
So. So there's an argument that that bad season in the ahl, we shouldn't hold it against Akira Schmidt.
- [15:29]
F
But the.
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B
The whole point being is there's a lot of uncertainty in. In the backup position for a team that needs their backup to play 35, 40 games. So we'll see. I think Akira Schmidt needs a good preseason to fend off. Like, there are going to be goalies going through waivers in the next few weeks. Like teams have three veteran goalies. They're going to be veterans available on the waiver market. I wouldn't be surprised if Vegas is looking at those guys. It's a cure. Schmidt's job to convince them over the next few. Few weeks of camping and preseason that they don't need to.
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D
Okay. You'll notice as you listen today, and hopefully if you listen to the other preview pods, the Central was the last one. If you want to keep on top of everything in the Western Conference, we have three questions that we are asking everyone. So, Jesse, let's start here with the Vegas Golden Knights finish higher or lower in the standings than last season. Maybe a little tough there. One of the top teams in the league. They. They had the most points in the Pacific Division, 110. But where do you think. Do you think they can get a little higher?
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B
I will say lower. I think Edmonton probably wins the division. I've. I've talked a lot about how different things are going to be for Vegas this year. They're going to be probably more of an offensive team than we've seen. And I think that maybe that can take some time to learn how to win games like that. When you've been the type of team that can lean on your defense so much for as long as they have. So I think there may be some bumps in the road. I don't expect them to be like if they're going to easily make the playoffs, but I don't think that they win the division. So I'll say lower.
- [16:57]
D
Okay, who's their most important player?
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B
I think most people would think Marner or Eichel because they're the two best players on the team. But I'm going to go with Shea Theodore for all the reasons we talked about. I think his ability to step up and be that workhorse defenseman and take on those minutes is going to determine whether the Golden Knights are like one of the best teams. In the league or just a good team?
- [17:17]
D
Can you give us a title for the team season? You can make up the title. It can be a book. It can be an album. What's the title for the Vegas Golden Knights in 20? 25, 26?
- [17:29]
B
So we, we haven't talked that much about Mitch Marner, even though that's been like the biggest story of the season. So I'll try to work him into this. And he's had a lot of loathing in Toronto over the last couple of years. And we saw Jack Eichel come to to Vegas and just shake those demons off from Buffalo and go on a cup run. And I think Mitch Marner is going to go on a deeper, deep, deep playoff run with this team. And there will be no fear or loathing in Las Vegas this season.
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E
For it's a workaround, but that's okay. We'll take it.
- [18:03]
B
I have to get creative.
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D
I think that's a pretty good one. Jonas had a bunch Jonas when he was here, he just did a bunch of we miss you, Mitch Marner Drake songs and albums.
- [18:15]
E
So it's an impossible act to follow. Yeah.
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D
Yeah, exactly. All right, time to put your host hat back on, Jesse, as we move on on to the Anaheim Ducks with Eric Stevens. Eric, thank you so much for doing this.
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F
Hey, guys, how are you doing today?
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B
Great.
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D
We're good. Yeah. I won't speak for Sean, but they're doing those.
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E
Those two are doing great. Me, TBD. You never know.
- [18:41]
B
Today's episode is sponsored by BetterHelp.
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E
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F
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F
So, so yeah, you're just kind of getting into you're, you're still in camp speed. You're, you're still in camp mode. You're not really ready for the regular year yet.
- [21:06]
E
Yeah, not quite. Not quite in the best shape of my life.
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F
No.
- [21:12]
D
All right, Eric. The Ducks are actually a pretty interesting team heading into this season. They had an interesting off season. They trade Trevor Zegras, acquire Chris Kreider, they sign Mikhail Grandland, bring in a new coach and we'll get to the bench impact shortly in this conversation. But let's start with the on ice editions. Do you think the changes that the Anaheim Ducks made are going to be enough to make them maybe not a playoff team but like a contender or at the very least out of the bottom of the division?
- [21:44]
F
Yeah. No, no, I think you kind of hit the nail on the head there, Haley, in terms of where you could see what, what their additions will do and, and their placement here. I mean, no, they did not land, say a major free agent in the off season. And, and I think a lot of the fan base mutt was kind of, you know, hoping that maybe a distant hope. But you know, all the cap space that they have but you know, with Chris Kreider and, and Mikhail Gramlin and even Ryan Paling, you know, I think they got three guys who they, they know how to play their roles. They, they've got experience, they know the NHL game and what they're going to bring to Anaheim is, is what they need, which is, you know, in writer's case, someone that's going to be a real net front presence, you know, you know, he's still got his wheels, someone that can, that can p gate and someone that can, you know, operate around the front of the net and put rebounds in, tip pucks in. That's what they haven't had in years. Michael Granlin's going to give them some, some versatility, but he can play center, he can play wing, he can play, you know, up the lineup. You know, he'll probably smell wind up sliding in as the third line center. That's a pretty good player to have on your third line. And even Ray of Ryan Paling, he should upgrade that fourth line and give them a speedy penalty killer, you know, and someone that can play some edge. So, you know, those additions, you know, while none of them are say, necessarily eye catching, you know, or, or big name in terms of this past off season, I do think that they're going to help, you know, lift them, you know, or at least make them improve or are they going to be a playoff team after this? That remains to be seen. I'm not sure they had that kind of move to make that kind of improvement, but I do think that, you know, they're going to be a better team. They're going to be a consequential team for once in a few years, really.
- [23:43]
B
To add some veterans, to maybe give the team a little bit more structure. How much do you think that Joel Quinnville and the system he's bringing in is going to change the way the Ducks have looked? I think for the last couple years we've looked at this team as like a young team with some talent, but they don't play the most structured defensive hockey. Like, do you expect that to look different this year under Quinnville with these veteran additions?
- [24:06]
F
Yeah, I do. I really do. You know, I. And Jesse to what you alluded to, Joe Quinnville might be their biggest off season pick about. Yeah, you know, among things. I mean, let's, let's face it, whatever you think of him getting back into the game, he. Somebody was going to hire him at some point. And Anaheim, you know, being that they've been out of the playoffs for seven years, like I said, they've got this young core that they sort of kind of built around. They've extended, you know, they put some veterans around that, but you touched on it. Their play often has been sort of unstructured and, you know, and free willing in a bad way. And so I think Joe Quinville is really going to bring that. It's, you know, I, I think that his addition, I think Joel's edition is really going to make this, eventually make this group a much more structured group. And I think that, you know, a lot's going to be demanded of them. You know, it's, you know, this is guy who, you know, yes, he may be a player's coach in a lot of ways and he gives his players a lot of freedom, but, you know, we see even in his days with the Blackhawks that, you know, he, he can, you know, he can be strict and he can put the hammer down or he can express his displeasure with his group and get results that way. So in terms of upgrades, I think that might be the biggest upgrade that the Ducks had was behind the bench.
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E
I'm particularly fascinated to see the effect that he has on Leo Carlson, because when you look at his first year in Chicago, someone like Jonathan Toews leveled up like the production was not that much different, but the substance at 5 on 5 got dialed up pretty significantly, right? Like he turned Jonathan Toews, you know, in year two or three for him there into the Jonathan Taves that we all came to know. And I think there's a lot of similarities, you know, between Carlson in particular in Taves. So that's, that's an interesting, you know, thing to track throughout the season for them.
- [26:06]
F
Sean, what, what year did, you know, Jonathan Tate and even Patrick Kane level up, really, really started to level up and become the stars? Year three. This is year three for Leo Carlson. And you're right, you know, I think, you know, the Ducks feel like even on draft night, they felt like when they drafted them that they were drafting a potential superstar. Now, we still need to see what the true ceiling is for Leo Carlson, but I think this is a season where he can take that step towards that toward being a real star in this league, perhaps even a, you know, a franchise, you know, franchise superstar, because he's got that game, he's got that two, you know, two way element in his game to where he can be just as effective defense will be as he can be offensively. I mean, he drew comparisons to Anjay Kopitar, you know, maybe even, you know, Sasha Barkov in a smaller extent. And so I think really, Joel Quinville, you know, kind of going to be a good coach for him in terms of, you Know, really getting him to the peak of his abilities as he starts to move into his prime years.
- [27:20]
B
I'll do what I do and steer the conversation towards the goalies. There's a, there's an exciting one in Anaheim and I. It's been a while, like John Gibson when he first broke out, like, it's been a while since there's been this kind of excitement around a goalie. For the Ducks, Doe Stahl stepped up, had a monster season in his first year as a starter. Do you expect that to continue? And what is the excitement around Lucas Dostahl and the strides he's made?
- [27:45]
F
You know what? Well, Jesse, I know you love him and. Yes. And you know what? There's reasons to. Because, you know, he to tries. Tracks the puck so well. I mean, he showed that even when he was a, you know, even a development camp rookie that, you know, this, this was someone who was maybe mature beyond his years. And I, you know, that he's stepping right into, right into those seasons where you start to maybe take off as a goalie. Yeah, you know, goalies, you know, goaltending is poo do and all that whatsoever. But, you know, I, I think if nothing else, he's consistently shown that he can be able to keep his team in the game, you know, keep a team that's been near the bottom of the league, you know, and being, you know, defensively unstructured and whatsoever, being able to keep his team in the game consistently and even still games on occasion. I think what's going to be key for Lucas this year is can he maintain the consistency throughout the entire season at, you know, as he's, you know, enters this year really as the, you know, unmistakable number one in Anaheim. This is really the first year now that, you know, he's going to have that and he's probably going to be playing, you know, say, maybe 55, you know, games or so. I mean, they gotta, you know, they got a decent backup and Peter Morazi behind him, but, you know, he's going to be handling an even larger workload, you know, more than ever. But Anaheim show, you know, they show their cards. You know, they finally got John Gibson dealt, but they signed the stall for five more years. I mean, this has been pointing in this direction now for the last year or so, and with a better team in front of him, with a more competitive team, a more structured team in front of him, I think it's possible that you can see the best of Lucas. And if he can be, if he can do. He did particularly in the first half of last season. That'll really push this club toward being a playoff contender.
- [29:44]
D
Yeah. All right, let's get to our rapid fire questions we have here for you, Eric. Will the Anaheim Ducks finish higher or lower in the standings than last season? 80 points last year, 25th overall, six in the division. And do you think they can make the playoffs?
- [30:04]
F
I like them to be higher, maybe one slot higher. I don't think that it's going to get them into the playoffs, but I think they will fall short. But I do see, say, a 10 to 12 point improvement. I think they can get to, say, maybe 92, maybe even 94 points.
- [30:18]
D
All right, who's their most important player?
- [30:21]
F
We touched on him earlier. Carlson. I mean, it. You could say Lucas. Still style, certainly. I mean, make no mistake, you. You want a number one goalie playing well, but I think this is the season where, you know, as Leo goes, maybe so goes that I. If he really takes that step toward, you know, being a real star, he can be the guy that sort of lifts everyone.
- [30:45]
D
Can you give us a title for the Anaheim Duck season? We've been doing this. You can make up your own title. It can be a book. It can be like an album. What's the title for the ducks in 20? 25? 26?
- [30:57]
E
Yeah.
- [30:57]
F
You know what? I was thinking about some album. Album titles. I'm a little bit of a music guy, I would say, but I. It was easier coming up with songs. So I'm gonna say I'm. I'm gonna play off. If you remember the old Mark Morrison hit, Return of the Mac?
- [31:15]
E
Yes.
- [31:19]
F
I do. I knew, Sean, that you might. For sure. We're kind of showing her in just a little bit here. That was a great party.
- [31:32]
D
I heard that song on Dancing with the Stars this week.
- [31:37]
F
It's a great party song. You put it on, everybody starts moving, right? So I'm gonna say Return of the Quack.
- [31:46]
D
All right. Okay. Okay. Okay. We love it. Okay.
- [31:50]
F
Thank you.
- [31:50]
E
Thank you.
- [31:51]
B
Perfect.
- [31:51]
A
Perfect.
- [31:52]
D
Thank you, Eric. We're gonna chat again later in the show about the Los Angeles Kings. But first, Julian McKenzie is here with us to preview the Calgary Flames. You would have heard the Atlantic preview talking about the Ottawa Senators. It's kind of fun that we've covered the same two teams. You did it in reverse fashion. You went Calgary, Ottawa. I went Ottawa, Calgary. We love this for us.
- [32:12]
E
What's up? Future pwhl reporter Julian McKenzie. How we doing, buddy?
- [32:18]
G
Hey, just happy to work wherever I'm needed, man. Good to see you guys.
- [32:22]
D
Again, yeah, this is great. I think it is easy for me to look at the Flames off season and feel a little underwhelmed. There wasn't a ton of action. Obviously the Dustin Wolf extension is a great bit of business. They get their franchise guy.
- [32:39]
E
But you know what?
- [32:39]
D
Like, they did have 96 points last season just outside of the playoff picture. I feel like I needed to remind myself of that when I was like raging about them being in the mushy middle the last time we talked about the Calgary Flames on this pod. So let's look optimistically at the Flames. How can this team, Julian, build off of a strong finish with this fairly consistent roster? Like, what's the reason to be optimistic about Calgary?
- [33:07]
G
Dustin Wolf is at the center of that. I think the fact that not only you mentioned the point total, the biggest reason for me why they were even in a position to compete for the playoffs to begin with was because of Dustin Wolf, who had been knocking at the door for an opportunity for years, considering what he had done at the junior level, at the American League level. And then when it was clear last season that he needed to get the lion's share of starts in his tandem with Dan Vladar, he took off. And all of a sudden we're thinking about his chances at the Calder Trophy. I. I think what Dustin Wolf has been able to do for the Calgary Flames at a time when so many other teams have bigger goalies, stockier guys, what have you, the fact that this guy was like 6ft tall is. We're looking at him as one of the best goaltenders in the National Hockey League. Not just. Not just a guy who nearly saved the Calgary Flames season and brought them into the playoffs. Like, people were wondering, like, hey, should Dustin Wolf be getting a look for Team USA at the orientation camp? But I think he. You have to start with him and you have to look at their prospect pool. Fans are going to get that opportunity to see Zane Parek and see what's going to be coming for him this coming season. What about some of the other. Some of the other defensemen in their prospect pool? A guy like a Hunter Bustevich. What's it going to look like for him in the AHL or a Henry Muse a little further down in their system?
- [34:29]
H
It's.
- [34:29]
G
It's a fascinating time. Considering the fact the roster. I still think they're a team that their ceiling is probably that of the mushy middle. I think they're too good to tank, but they're not bad enough to put themselves in the Gavin McKenna conversation. So I think if you're a fan, if you're trying to look optimistically, you're thinking, how will this team look in the future with some of the younger prospects they have in tow and the guys on the roster who have already graduated? So Dustin Wolfe, Connor Zary, who signs a bridge deal, and Matthew Coronado, who also signs a big deal as well. And you can make the argument he has the best shot on the team. So, yeah, if you're looking optimistically, it's the young players.
- [35:09]
B
Wolf was obviously awesome last year. How much? Like, where's the next level for him? Like, do you think he can be a Vezina contender this year? Because I've been talking to some goalie coaches around the league that absolutely believe that. And then you look at. They give him the contract extension, he. They clearly commit to him as the franchise guy. They let Dan Vladar walk out the door, and I don't think he's a special backup. Like, I wouldn't say he's one of the best backups in the league, but he is a veteran backup who has done this, and they let him go. They've now got Ivan Prosvitov, young kid, not a lot of experience. It seems like they're gonna put a lot on Dustin Wolf this year and let him carry the team.
- [35:46]
G
Yeah, that's what it looks like to me. With Dan Vladar, in my time covering the team, like, that was a guy this organization really liked. So I. I can't imagine just letting him go. That was something that was just like, you know, hey, we're just gonna let him go. We don't think much of this guy. I can't imagine that being an easy decision to go through. But, yeah, this is the. This is the year where Dustin Wolf. There's no questions about who's starting. There's no questions about how many games he's going to get. We're not going to see a situation where he gets called up to the NHL, he hangs out for a practice or two, gets to hang out with Jacob Markstrom and Dan Vladara, and then get sent right back to the American Hockey League. This is his team. And I mean, I felt just in my time being around the team, I think they had. They always had confidence in Dustin Wolf. I think of what I talked to Connor Zeri about him last year is a guy who. He's seen that climb from the American League to now. That's a guy who he's. He's believed in for quite some time. There's no Questions at the goaltending position for this team and just to see Dustin Wolfe emerge as that star. To your earlier point, your earlier question, like if the Calgary Flames have a repeat of last year where they're playing above expectations, because I think some people might still on the outside see them as a team probably in the bottom quarter of the league if they continue to hang around the playoff picture and they put themselves in the position where they can make the playoffs. We're putting Dustin Wolf in the fence in the conversation for sure. We're measuring his, his statistics, absolutely.
- [37:19]
E
If he drags them out of the mushy middle again, like on some level, sure. That's just, you know, you can have problems with that. I, I suppose if you're a Flames fan, but that would also mean that they have a franchise goaltender if, if he follows up last season with, with a, with a carbon copy. You're talking about a kid who's done that two straight years in his, in his early 20s. Guess what? That's a high end goaltender. That's a piece that you've got in place potentially for, for a really, really long time. I mean Even last year, 25 goals saved above expected. If he's average that they're an 80 point team, like go different in strictly in terms of goal differential. They're, they're, they're down there with the Flyers and, and teams like that. That dude was a difference maker last year and if he does it again, then you just take the gift. If you're the flame, you say, great, we, we can check this box. This guy can be the face of stuff moving forward like that, like that counts for something.
- [38:17]
D
I also just want to say before we get to Julian, like when you say take the gift, I think it's really easy to forget this was like the last pick in the draft in 2019. He was sitting in Vancouver until 214th and Todd Button walks up and says like, all right, we're going to take Dustin Wolf. And like he and his family were just sitting there until the seventh round on day two of the draft. And I think it's easy to forget that this was the kid that everyone's like, I's too small. He's too small. When I was covering and that's the story we did is like, is, can Dustin Wolf do this? Everyone's talking about his height. Is this going to be a problem? And it literally never has. So this is both a gift for the Flames because if he ends up being the franchise guy that is a major box checked but this is also like, that's just like, really great scouting and development and belief in himself for Dustin Wolf, too. He is never someone who has said like, like, I'm too small to do this. There are disadvantages to being listed at like 6 foot or 62 on paper, which I don't believe he is actually that tall, but they're. The advantage, like, he has is he is, like, so perfect and technically sound. He's not 6 foot 5, so the puck's just not going to like, naturally hit him. So instead he is just always in the right place and he tracks pucks and he is just like such a technically gifted goaltender. So that was just my own. Like, I watched the transition, like, the conversation shift of Dustin Wolf over my years from Calgary to now, and it's just give Todd Button the flowers and give a ton of them to Dustin Wolf.
- [39:56]
B
Yeah, if he had just been 6:2, he never would have. That never would have happened. Like, it's.
- [39:59]
D
It's all been in the seventh.
- [40:01]
B
Nobody has been able to score on this kid his whole life, since he was freaking 4 years old. No one can score on Dustin Wolf at any level, but for some reason, we just keep not believing that it's going to happen at the next level.
- [40:12]
G
I think it's so cool that, like, between Haley covering the team, me covering the team, and Jesse, like, obviously with his great goaltending coverage, like, we've seen the jump we've seen and not just the Wolfie jump that he does before games. Like, it's been cool to see his ascension as a goaltender at every level. And if he proves everyone. I mean, I don't even know if you're proving everyone wrong if you do it right this year. Like, I see where Sean's coming from here like a franchise goaltender for this team. Some of the defensive prospects you have, all you need is like. And I'm not saying that's easy at any stretch, but if you find a way to get some really good, talented forwards in your system, that's a very hard part of it. But, like, if you look at the optimistic side of it, having a franchise goalie setting yourself up on defense, that's a good start for what you're trying to do in your rebuild.
- [41:03]
C
Retool.
- [41:03]
G
There's. There's some good elements to this.
- [41:06]
D
Let's look at the defense here too, because I think obviously Dustin Wolf can do a lot for this team. He raises the floor and the ceiling for the Calgary Flames. Right? But one important piece to keep an eye on, especially when we're talking about the Blue line. Pierre LeBrun reported that all options remain on the table for Rasmus Anderson, who is a pending unrestricted free agent. But he says that trade remains the most likely, likely outcome for Anderson at this time. How much is that going to potentially impact the Calgary Flames? This season is not just another year of talking about a pending unrestricted free agent. Will he stay, Will he go? But the loss of someone like Rasmus Anderson on the blue line.
- [41:47]
G
I think the talk around Rasmus Anderson, I think there's a bunch of guys on this team who experienced the last few years where there were a lot of will they or won't theys? So I think. I think for a guy like Mackenzie Weger, for example, like, he's seen this before, I don't think that's going to deter him that much. Or an awesome Kadri. I mean, we'll see what's up with his future. But I think for a good chunk of guys on that team, because of what they've experienced in the past, with the exodus that's happened in previous years, with guys like Chris Tanov and Noah Hannifin and Nikita Zadorov leaving, I don't see that as much of a distraction. I mentioned Uyghur because a couple weeks ago he had a really funny Instagram story where it was like, him, Michael Backlin, Jake Bean and Rasmus Anderson at, like, a golf course, and they're all, like, hanging out. It's like a little selfie of all four of them and you just see distraction at the bottom. Like, that's pretty funny. Like that. That tells me that, like, yeah, you've heard all this stuff before, that's not going to be as big of a distraction for you. But when it comes time for Rasmus Anderson, who I. I'm still of the belief, too, that he's more likely to be traded, that's a pretty significant voice to lose in that locker room. This is a guy who speaks his mind. This is a guy who doesn't mince words. We've seen him take more of a leadership role in. In recent years. In Sweden at the World Championship, he was captain on a team that had Michael Backland on it, who's the captain of the Flames. Like. Like, that's really significant to see. So, yeah, if it gets to a point where by the trade deadline, the Calgary Flames say, you know what? We found a deal that works and we're going to get these assets for him, that's going to be a pretty big loss. Even though there's going to be a bunch of fans who are going to be like, yes, like this is going to take us to that next level in terms of the rebuild, slash retool that we're doing. Which brings me to this other point I want to make. Like the fact that all options are on the table, including the idea that Rasmus could stay and maybe even extend. Do the Flames really want to play this game again where they have a marquee player who could test free agency and then maybe leave for nothing? I don't know if you could stand to do that with Rasmus Anderson. I, I get it. He's not Johnny Goudreau. And hey, with Matthew Kachuk, they got a return for Matthew Tkachuk.
- [44:07]
C
Yeah, for worse.
- [44:09]
G
But like, I don't think with where this franchise is at right now, they could afford to play that game where they're wondering if Rasmus Anderson wants to change the scenery and then on July 1st he signs elsewhere. And I also have questions too, if him re signing with the organization considering the glut of defenseman they have waiting in the wings to play more. Is that the right, is that the right move to make? I have questions about that. I'm not going to say it's. It's the wrong move, but I have questions about that.
- [44:41]
B
I think the biggest question for this team in terms of can they make the playoffs is who's going to score goals for this team? Because we've talked about how good Wolf is, we expect him to be good. The defense is not bad. Last year they were bottom three in the league and goals scored and as in Kadri scored some goals. Huberto had a little bit of a bounce back, but Coronado, good young player who kind of stepped up, but it just seems like there's not enough scoring to go around. What do you like? Like are there players you think can step up or do you think this is going to be a major issue again?
- [45:08]
G
Yeah, I think the fact that they didn't really make that many changes to their roster leads me to believe that they're not going to be among the higher scoring teams. To your point about them being in the bottom three and goals scored, I believe they were also dead last in goals at 5 on 5 like that. To our earlier point about Dustin Wolf, that just speaks to so much of a carry job that he did for this team. But yeah, to look at Nazem Kadri who is obviously going to be motivated to make whatever chances he has at trying to crack team Canada, I don't think he has the biggest chances in the world, but if that's what's going to motivate him for this year, good on him. Coming off a career year where he scores 35 in a season, I would be surprised if he did that again. But hey, he believes in himself to do that. Jonathan Huberto, I think even in small increments, he's gotten better, a little bit better since his first year in Calgary. Does he still have enough in him to return to the 30 goal plateau? I have questions about that. I, I think for Matthew Coronado, where he's at in his career again with again the shot that he has, if he's put in the right spots, there's an opportunity for him to hit 30. But even then, like again, looking up and down the lineup, you're asking Jaeger, Sharon Govich to return to a previous form he's had. Is he able to do that? Connor Zeri, if he stays healthy, is he a guy that could get to 20, 25 goals in a season? I'm not so sure. And then up and down the lineup, you have some solid, I mean, David mentioned Farabee and, and Frost in that lineup too, some other young players, but I'm not sure if those guys have it in them to score 30, 35 in a year. I think they have a lot of players who can be at best solid or pretty good. I just don't know if they're sufficient enough to provide that offense. I'm, I'm prepared to be surprised and maybe it calls on Craig Conroy to make more moves to improve the offense, but right now on paper, I don't know if they're that team that could, I don't, I don't see them being significantly better when it comes to providing offense.
- [47:11]
D
Gotta stay semi relevant until that new building opens and you sell some season tickets, baby. Okay? Julian Will the Calgary Flames finish higher or lower in the standings than last season? Do you think they'll make the playoffs?
- [47:23]
F
They finish lower.
- [47:24]
G
I, I just think what they did last year was super great, super above expectations. I, I just think ultimately because of the fact that I don't think they made that much improvements offensively, they're asking a lot of Dustin Wolf again and for him to carry the load for an entire season, I think he can only do so much. I think he'll keep them relevant. I don't know if we're going to see a situation where they're going to have above 90 points this year and fight until the Last week of the regular season. So I'll say lower.
- [47:58]
D
Okay, who's their most important player?
- [48:01]
G
I think. I think Dustin Wolf. I think the way we've talked about him in this segment is pretty indicative of that. Yeah.
- [48:06]
F
Who, him? Huh?
- [48:07]
G
Yeah.
- [48:08]
B
No.
- [48:08]
G
Dustin Wolf, I think is the most important player on this team.
- [48:10]
D
All right, can you give us a title for the Calgary flame season in 20, 25, 26? Could be a book. You can make it up yourself. Can be an album. What are we thinking?
- [48:21]
G
I was trying to make it wolf centric. Like, I thought Lone Wolf would be a little too rough considering, like how much importance we've put on him. I guess I'll.
- [48:33]
F
I'll stick with Lone Wolf.
- [48:34]
D
And take what about she Wolf? The title of a popular 2009 pop song by Shakira where she sings about a woman who feels trapped but finds freedom by embracing her she Wolf Persona at night.
- [48:46]
G
There's a she wolf in your closet.
- [48:53]
D
Could that be? Can Dustin. Does Dustin Wolf feel trapped? But does he find freedom by embracing his wolf in the crease?
- [49:03]
G
I mean, the entire city's embraced it. Maybe.
- [49:07]
B
I just love that we got Julian to sing Shakira on here.
- [49:11]
G
I'm not above singing Shakira if I feel like it.
- [49:15]
D
I don't know.
- [49:16]
A
I don't know.
- [49:18]
D
I'm not creative. That's why I asked the questions. I don't think she Wolf is appropriate.
- [49:22]
G
Oh, man, I'm not sure. I don't know if there's like a suggestion of like another movie. I mean, Lone Wolf was a movie.
- [49:30]
F
I mean, I don't know.
- [49:33]
G
Wolfie Jump. That's the name of the jump that he does before games. I don't know if that's enough to move the needle. Razzle dazzle.
- [49:41]
D
You're done. Never mind. All right, we gotta take a break. Thanks, Julian. We come back. Daniel Nugent Bowman joins us from Edmonton to discuss the back to back Stanley cup finalist Edmonton Oilers. The Pacific division preview continues here on the Athletic Hockey Show. Daniel Nugent Bowman joins us now to chat about the Edmonton Oilers. Daniel, what's up? How are we doing?
- [50:10]
H
Well, it's not a five alarm fire here yet, but sure, we'll get to this. There's something to talk about here in Edmonton, I'm sure.
- [50:19]
D
Yeah, there's a couple of topics. Let's start a little bit basic though before we get into what I'm sure you're alluding to is Connor McDavid not having a contract extension. Maybe, maybe, maybe beyond the obvious with their captain. I'M just so curious about the vibe in Edmonton right now. Back to back trips to the Stanley cup finals, but also back to back losses. Is it still a bit of like, glass half full of like, while we got there almost two years in a row, or is there a bit of that frustration setting in of like, okay, well, we just didn't do it and also we didn't do a ton to meaningfully improve this off season. What's, what's the thought there?
- [50:58]
H
Yeah, well, I can tell you. So they, when they lose, or when they lost rather, you know, in the 24 final, there was this thought of heartbreak. Like they came back 4 sec. Game 7, they lost by a goal, and it was just so hard to get over. And, you know, they were crushed. And you kind of saw that in the way they started the next season, going 0 and 3 and really having a lot of inconsistencies in the year. Although, you know, by the end of January they were the third best team in the league by points percentage. So they did recover nicely before, you know, some injuries and some inconsistent play down the stretch kind of cost them a little bit this year. They were just pissed off with the way they lost. Right. Like, you know, they win game one in overtime, they lose game two in overtime, and then they were just outclassed the rest of that series. They were lucky to, to win one of those, those last four games. So, you know, Connor McDavid talked about how he and Leandro Seidel and Darnell Nurse, like, got on the ice very fast, you know, took very little downtime in terms of, of trying to get ready again for this season. I think that's been the sentiment talking to a few guys on the team as well. Now, when you look at the, the roster itself, I would say, yeah, you're right, Haley. Like, you look at this team and they lost five pretty established wingers, you know, Vander Kane, Connor Brown, Corey Perry, Victor Arvidson, Jeff Skinner. Although, you know, by the end of the year, Arvidson and Skinner were not really big players on the team. They're replacing them with a couple of rookies. A guy from, from Sweden, sorry, he played in the, in the Swedish league from, from Czechia. Who doesn't have much NHL or doesn't have any NHL experience at 29, Curtis Lazar to fill at the bottom of the roster up front. And so on paper, the team's probably a little bit worse. Ultimately, they, they play in a not very competitive, I would say division, and they've got, you know, two of the best players in the game and a huge chip on their shoulders. So that's kind of what, you know, you know, the positive outlook, I guess, and, and you know, kind of what they're banking on to, to ultimately do well again this season.
- [53:04]
E
Okay, we need to ask the McDavid question, like, is I. That just seems like that's gonna run your life for the next six months, nine months, however long. Where, where do they stand now versus a couple months ago when, when this really started to seem like a possibility. Has there been any movement at all? And also like just how omnipresent is it, you know, as a topic around the team, around the city, how it seems like a big deal and I, I assume it is.
- [53:36]
F
Yeah.
- [53:37]
H
I mean, around the city it's the topic. I mean that's all people want to talk about. You know, I get for people that do recognize me, I wouldn't say I'm the most recognizable the face here, but you know, if people find out what I, what I do for a living, that's the first question that comes out of their mouth. Like, what's up with McDavid? What's going to happen? And I mean it's, it's his decision, right? Like, like the, the checkbook's open for however long he wants to sign. Like this is he holds every single card in this negotiation and it's a matter of him, I think, still figuring out what he thinks of this team. He made it very clear. I asked him at the end of the season avail in June, like what are you considering? And he said if there's a window for this team to win over and over again and signing is no problem. Well, it's September and he hasn't signed. Like it's pretty clear what he thinks. And we're talking about this, right? Like, yeah, they're a very good team right now. They're top, you know, five team in the league. Maybe they're, they should be a contender. But as he keeps referring to in, in his answers, he's talking about the 20, 25, 26 season and he doesn't go beyond that because the future looks a little uncertain beyond that. You know, obviously Leon Dry Seidl committed last year and starting his eight year contract. Evan Bouchard's on the four year deal. That's that, that's their core and they have other guys. But you know, Zach Hyman who's coming off an injury and won't start the season, he's in his 30s. So is Ryan Nugent, Hopkins, Darnell Nurse just, you know, hit 30. Matthias Ekholm was really hurt down the stretch and, and had a torn abductor and which cost him most of his blast up until almost the final. He's 35. You know, it's an old core. You know, I talked about the Brookie breaking in a couple rookies or hoping to and I Coward and Matt Savoy after that. And if you want to put Evan Bouchard, who's just about to turn 26 in that mix, there really isn't anyone in, in their 20s that's a core part of this team. Trent Frederick would be in that mix but I mean he's, he's a depth player right. So it's hard to see how the future, you know, positive outlook for this future beyond this year and maybe a couple more. So I think he really wants to win here. He's made that abundantly clear. He's got a bunch of friends here again, dry saddle re upped, got his agent running the team. His junior coach is the coach. You know, his wife started a bunch of businesses here, a couple in restaurant specifically. He wants to win here, but he wants to win period. And so I, I do think you're, you're probably the smart money is on a short term deal and then you reevaluate. He'll reevaluate and I don't know if he's going to be a career long oiler the way things are looking right now.
- [56:20]
E
So he says you guys, after this, after this season, essentially like yeah, if I think there's a long term plan in place here, like I'm, I'm good to go. And as you said, it's late September and still nothing. Is it fair to read some level of dissatisfaction and to. On his part with, with the off season they had like if, if they, if they go out and do more like are we having a different conversation now? Because you know the depth piece, some depth pieces changed and they got the Bouchard extension and whatever. But this also isn't a team that looks, you know, meaningfully different relative to last year either.
- [56:55]
H
Yeah, it's, it's a good question. The thing I guess I would say is, I mean it's so hard to change your team so much over an off season. You know, we're probably going to talk about goaltending and that's a big one. But in terms of the core of, of the team, you know, they did try to add some young players like last summer they, they did bring in Matt Savoy who's looked at a Very good year in HL Bakersfield and it's going to start the year here. They get the, the Hobie Baker winner and Ike Howard almost certainly going to start the year here and, and work his way up both those guys in the lineup. So that's a little bit of progress. But again, as we talked about, the team does look, look, does work does in my opinion at least look worse on paper. And, and part of that's a salary cap and, and you know, you can only fit in so many guys and all that, that stuff. But yeah, I was talking to somebody about this recently and the person was saying like what's done is done now, right? Like it's, it's again, it's so hard to change the team over one off season. So you kind of have to show him a plan and that's I think what Stan Bowman and Joe Jeff Jackson have been trying to do. But he's got to believe in it and he also again has to kind of take a little bit of a leaf of leap of faith because the team is getting older and if he wants to win with his buddies, he's, he's kind of has to kind of look at them and think can I do it or not? And that's, that's the quality he, he has to make. I, I don't think money is a huge part of this. Obviously he's going to get, get paid.
- [58:27]
C
Probably not as much as he probably.
- [58:28]
H
Deserves to be, but he will get some money regardless of the term. It's, it's the team will take him back for, for one year or eight or whatever. Like again, he holds all the cards here. It's, it's kind of, he's referenced gut feel and some of it quite frankly is because he's got again, he's got to kind of decide what he wants to do.
- [58:49]
B
We've talked a lot about how Conor maybe views this team and how he views the off season and you alluded to it. The goaltending I is where everyone in Edmonton expected to be upgraded except for maybe Stan Bowman. They now they did switch from Dustin Schwartz, longtime goalie coach. They brought in Peter Aubrey. So that is at least some change. But the fact that they're still, it looks like they're heading into the season with Stuart Skinner and Calvin Pickard who have not gotten the job done. And I'll start by saying my opinion on it and you can tell me if you agree. I've said this for a while. Upgrading on Stuart Skinner is difficult. There aren't many Teams out there with a goalie better than Stuart Skinner who are willing to move them. But to me, upgrading from Calvin Pickard isn't difficult at all. I think there's a handful of goalies in the AHL who are better than him. And there were plenty of veteran backups available this offseason that could have given you a stronger tandem. That's not the flashy move that upgrades the goaltending in a huge way. But I think that there were ways to upgrade it and they just, just refuse to do it for, for whatever reason. How do you view the way Bowman is handling the goalies?
- [59:57]
H
Yeah, it's, it's, it's interesting. Okay. You know, you mentioned Kyle Picker. I'll start with him. Just because you know, he's been in quite frankly like their safety net. Did he get it done in the final? No, but he came in provide some good goaltending in game four and helped them come, come back and win that game. He is total. He is beloved enough that in that room. But I know again we talked about Connor McDavid, Leon dry settle. Whatever.
- [60:24]
C
I don't.
- [60:25]
H
They just want to win so they could be.
- [60:27]
B
You're beloved in that room, Daniel. Like you're beloved in that room. But I don't want you in net.
- [60:31]
C
Right?
- [60:33]
B
To me that's completely irrelevant.
- [60:35]
D
Was better when it mattered.
- [60:38]
B
He's not an NHL goal.
- [60:39]
D
He was better than Stuart Skinner in, in the playoffs. Like he had to save their asses. He's not an NHL times Stuart Skinner.
- [60:49]
A
Sorry.
- [60:49]
B
I think he's, I think he's. I think he's over the long term. I think he's better. I think Stuart Skinner is better than Calvin Pickard over the long term.
- [60:56]
H
Yeah.
- [60:56]
E
I want to know what Calvin Pickard did to Jesse.
- [61:01]
H
Calvin Pickard is a good stand up guy.
- [61:03]
G
Jesse.
- [61:04]
B
I love Calvin Pickard the person. I love Calvin Pickard the person.
- [61:07]
F
Yeah.
- [61:09]
B
Yeah.
- [61:09]
H
You're right about Stuart Skinner having the upside. Right. He's 26 and Pickard is 33. And the thing with the goaltending, you know, Skinner at 226 and pickered out just a million bucks. It allowed them to do a lot of different things with the roster. Now they're banking on again Peter Aubrey coming in. They think Stuart Skinner is best and we saw that against Fake at the end of the Vegas series. At the Dallas series. He was one of the better goaltenders in the league from late November to late January. They think his best is very, very good. It's probably not the highest end. The hella Buck, you know, it's just Sturkin like, you know, that short list. But it's very. They think it's very good. The problem is he's had so many dips, you know, over the last two playoffs. Go even go back to the three, three playoffs now like that Vegas series, Jesse from a couple years back, he got pulled three times in that series and they had to put in Jack Campbell. Now they had no trust in Jack Campbell, so they never went to start him.
- [62:07]
F
Him.
- [62:08]
H
But he lost the net against Vancouver a couple years ago. He lost the Nets two games into the playoffs in the King series this past year and really only got it back because Calvin Picker got hurt and then lost it in the final too. He didn't start game four of the Stanley cup final. So they're hoping that Peter Aubrey, his bread and butter is the mental approach to the game obviously is a bit of a different voice too. Again, they think his high end is. Is good enough.
- [62:34]
E
Tough.
- [62:36]
H
There wasn't a lot out there. They didn't go after John Gibson.
- [62:42]
F
It's.
- [62:43]
H
It's do it. I think now it's do or die for. These two goaltenders are both on the last year of their deal. They're not locked into either one of them. Upgrades are possible and are being considered. But they do want to give Skinner another run here for better or worse. I know this is a huge topic here in Edmonton. This is topic number two behind Con McDavid for sure.
- [63:05]
B
Skinner's the only person that's happy about that. Connor McDavid's contract has taken over the conversation. Yeah, I don't know if I've quite answered your question.
- [63:15]
H
We've gone. We've gone a little off the rails.
- [63:18]
D
I started yelling in defense, who I definitely shredded last year heading into the playoffs, being like, why are they going into the playoffs with this bomb? And then he was like, good. So that's just me over compensating.
- [63:31]
H
But you know, to Jesse's point, I mean that Vegas series, the Oilers were outstanding.
- [63:36]
F
Yeah.
- [63:36]
H
You know, they. There were very few times where it looked like Vegas was the better team in that series. And, and Picker made some, some good saves. But I mean his A percentage in that series, I believe was below.900. He got the job done. Full credit to him. But I do see again the, the this how wise is a huge conversation. And, and the Oilers, I believe, are kind of a team and I've said this for a while, that needs just good goaltending. They don't need the highest end guy. They need good, stable goaltending and, and they've got that for for moments and they haven't for others. And it's cost them obviously in a couple of finals now. But to Jesse's point, and I have said this all along too, is it is very difficult to get an upgrade in this league. There's so few guys that you can count on year over year, over and over. And look at, look at Connor Hellebutt stock. Amazing regular season mvp back to back Vesna trophy guy. Look how bad he was in the playoffs.
- [64:33]
G
Right.
- [64:33]
H
So it is a very fickle position and it is one to that is difficult to find the right guy in.
- [64:40]
D
Three goals against on 18 shots for Stuart Skinner in his preseason debut. Everything is going great and awesome. It's just preseason. Who cares? It doesn't matter. Let's get to our rapid fire questions. We've been asking everyone these three questions through all the playoffs or, excuse me, all the previews. Daniel. So let's start here. Will the Edmonton Oilers finish higher or lower in the standings than last season? 101 points last year, ninth in the league, third in the Pacific Division and will they make the playoffs? That seems like a given. But will they improve meaningfully in the standings?
- [65:15]
G
Right.
- [65:16]
H
Yeah. I mean the playoffs, to your point, yeah, I think are given. It's a tough one because honestly they're in a lousy division, they're a cup contender. They should be good. But they're kind of in this Florida scenario where the regular season doesn't really matter to them any much anymore. You know, 101 points trailed LA Kings and Vegas last year. You know, they go into the year without Zach Hyman. They lost those vineyards that I talked about. Echoes coming off an injury. Yeah, it's not a given, but I will say slightly because I do think they're a top two team in the division and I don't think you're going to get there with just 101 points. So I'll say slightly, slightly better. Slightly better in the standings, but I don't have a ton of confidence. Again, they're a playoff team. It's, that's where they'll be judged. But I think they should be slightly if they're and they must be if they're going to come in the top.
- [66:06]
D
Two in the Pacific, you've got to just Fast forward through 82 regular season games, get to the postseason for Daniel maybe this is a silly question. I don't know who is their most important player? I don't even want to preface it other than McDavid because it probably is McDavid. But what do you think? Who's their most important player?
- [66:23]
H
Yeah, I mean McDavid. But, but again, under the context of what's going on on the ice with this team, I think it's Stuart Skinner.
- [66:29]
D
Yeah, right.
- [66:30]
H
Like, you know, they're putting their trust in him. He's. But it's not endless. Right. And I could see another goaltender in here, another starting goaltender or somebody that can really push Skinner by, by the deadline, maybe even early in, in the. Earlier in the season if things aren't going, going well. So in that context, I really do think it is Stuart Skinner because goaltending is such a hot button topic around here and it needs to get sorted out. So I will say Skinner with. Obviously everyone knows McDavid and dress up in their importance to the team.
- [67:06]
D
Can you give us a title for your team? Season can be like a book or an album.
- [67:11]
H
What do you got decision in the franchise? Okay, so the decision is this is like LeBron James, right? This is a huge decision. Connor McDavid and where he's going to go and for how long. And there's so many testicles to it too. I mean, you know, he could sign the eight year deal. I don't think that's gonna happen, but he could, you know, he could sign the two or three year deal and that is a clear indicator of what he thinks of the franchise and how, how what he thinks this window is. So that has kind of implications to the future of, of this franchise as well. Or he could go to July 1st and maybe go elsewhere and then things really do look different for this franchise. Right? You mean Julian Draised will be in year two of an eight year contract? They still have those core pieces, but this will turn in to a Chicago Pittsburgh scenario soon where the bottom starts to fall off and oh my God, is there another decade of darkness here? You know, so there's a lot of things going on here with, with, with McDavid and, and how it affects the Edmonton Oilers for sure.
- [68:18]
E
The Florida Panthers also just probably had a bunch of long term injury reserve money open up too. So you could force a trade to Florida if he wants. That's on the table.
- [68:27]
H
Well, I do think you, I will say though, I, I think he's going to see this year through here in Edmonton.
- [68:31]
F
Edmonton.
- [68:31]
H
Because he has said he wants to win in Edmonton. He's got all his buddies. I cannot see him pulling the shoot here and I don't think the team has any appetite to trade him this year. I do as a. As I gotta wait and see. You never know, as interesting as that would be.
- [68:45]
B
And it would be something.
- [68:46]
D
And they would turn into the Corey Perry curse. The Oilers would beat the Panthers in the cup final with McDavid on the Panthers.
- [68:57]
B
I'm sorry, I like how Daniel said the part about going to July 1st in like a much lower, lower volume because he doesn't want his neighbors to.
- [69:05]
D
Possibly hear, oh, my God, say the.
- [69:08]
H
Say the quiet part out loud.
- [69:10]
D
All right, I'm sorry, Daniel. Thank you so much for this. It feels a little bit mean, but maybe it's only fair that we move on from the Oilers to the west coast and break down the Los Angeles Kings with Eric Stevens returning to join us here on the pod. Hey, the Kings add Cody cc. So maybe this is the year.
- [69:32]
F
I mean, look, winning teams want Cody cc as Jim Mill he wanted, of course. Click. Corey Steely cup push. Oh, wait, that's right.
- [69:40]
C
Anyway, I was going to say, what.
- [69:42]
E
Ended up happening with that, by the.
- [69:43]
D
Way, how did that work out for them? Obviously, one of the big things that happened in LA this offseason is some changes on the blue line. Cody cc, Brian Dumlin there in for Vladislav G. Maverickov. But the forward group looks relatively unchanged. Some window dressings maybe, we could say. But I think the big question, especially after another first round loss to the Edmonton Oilers, is do the Kings have enough offense and other things going for them to compete with not just the top teams in the west, but Edmonton once again when it matters?
- [70:19]
F
I wish I could say yes. I don't think so, though, to be. To be honest with you, if they didn't feel that way, they wouldn't have, you know, eyed or looked hard or wished for Mitch Marner in the off season, you know, or even, you know, maybe some of the rumblings of, you know, maybe Nick Ehlers, even Brock Besser, you know, wingers that I can obviously put the puck in the net. That there's, you know, even the talk of maybe trading for Rick Parker, Kell, which I could see maybe still being on the table at some point, you know, as the season goes on here, and that's what Pittsburgh does. But, you know, the. The Kings, at their core, they're about defense and golden. That's. That. That's been in their DNA for years here. I mean, that was in their DNA really, you know, during their cup years, a decade. But we've seen that that hasn't been enough when it comes to, you know, facing the Oilers. And it just strikes that a fundamental issue with them and it's just the fact that while they have quite a few very usable to good players on their club and they're built on depth whatsoever, it's shown that they don't have a superstar. They don't have a superstar in their prime. And Edmonton, unfortunately for that has two of them. So, you know, it's a committee approach in la, every year is different. We'll see what happens. Again, it's been a committee approach. They're going to that that's what they're going to have to do because they weren't able to land say a big fish, a big forward in this off season.
- [72:04]
B
Eric, you mentioned that a lot of it starts with the goaltenders and they had some great goaltending last season by Darcy Kemper and I think it surprised a lot of people. He was coming off of two subpar years in Washington and then he goes to la and the same thing that happens to every goalie that goes to LA happened. He plays way better. And I think Bill Ranford probably deserves some credit. Mike Buckley, the goalie coach, obviously the defensive structure in front of them. But what's the excitement like for Darcy Kemper in year two? Second time around with the Kings? But year two on this stint with the Kings with another year under that behind that system, another year under Buckley and Ranford.
- [72:41]
F
Yeah, no, you're right about that, Jesse. And you know, you know, shout out to Mike Buckley. I mean, you know, him being to name to the Team usa, you know, that goes to show you just how highly he is thought of in the industry. And you're right. I mean it goes to even Ken Talbot, you know, last year and others. Yes, yeah, you know, they're able. The system is set up to where an agoalie can flourish. And they have, you know, some, some veterans that have sort of lost their way. Lost their way have been able to rebound, you know, in la. Is it reasonable to expect Darcy Kemper to be a business finalist again and this year it's probably a little bit unreasonable. I mean it's, it's, you know, I mean he's 30, you know, he's now 34, 35. But, but can he still give them some quality goaltending, some, you know, some, you know, good goaltending that you're going to rely on most nights? I think so. You know, I, I wouldn't expect him to duplicate how well he was last year. I mean he was great. He, he, he was he was absolutely great over the regular season and I wouldn't even blame the, the playoffs, you know, I wouldn't even blame him for their loss in the playoffs. I mean I think he, he performs very well. So I, I think with Darcy the key is him staying, being able to stay healthy. He was marginally be able to do that last year. There are a couple of times when we missed a couple, you know, missed a little bit of time earlier in the year. But if he's able to stay healthy, still give them, you know, alliance sheriff's guards and then them bringing in Anton Forsberg to, to back him up and maybe be an upgrade over David Rich, I, I do think that they're going to feel very comfortable with their goaltending.
- [74:28]
D
Heading into the Eric, when you talk about the Ford group and their offense kind of being by committee, I'm curious about Quinton Byfield and he finished the season strong. 10 points those last 10 games. Seven in his last seven. Like just really good finish to the regular season. Is the next step for Quinton Byfield becoming maybe not quite the superstar but like a, a guy that the Kings can rely on to have consistent offense? Is that unfair? Like what is the reasonable next step for Quinton by field in his NHL career?
- [75:03]
F
Haley I think he's critical to their efforts and you alluded to it over you late in the year, over the second half of the year, you know, he's had stretches where quite frankly he's been the piece better best player. Now he hasn't been able to say put those stretches or stretch those out, you know, say over say a long longer period of time to where you know, he's a dominant player for, you know, a month or two months or several weeks or a time where he's carrying the club. But I think that he can take that step. I, I, I think that's the next step for him and it really comes at a critical time. And you know, with this being Andre Kopitar's last season and you know, I, I'm sure that there is some wonder around the fan base in terms of okay, who's coming after him. I mean there are a lot of believers in the Quinn buy field but if he can take that step this year and become say a 70, 80 point guy, which I do think that he has the, the talent and the ability to become, you know, I, I, I think that the fan base is going to feel a lot more comfortable as they have and others have wondered, okay, what is this guy going to become? When is it going to happen for him, you know, if he does that, you know, he can sort of, you know, he can sort of tell the fan base. Don't, don't worry about who's coming after Andre. I got this. I got this. He's, he can be that kind of leading player for the Kings and I think he really should. You know, this is the year where he takes that step and maybe shows that he's going to be the, the definitive heir apparent first line center for the Keys going forward.
- [76:39]
B
Eric, you brought it up. Andre Kopitar's final season. I was caught off guard by it, mostly just because of how awesome he still is. Were you surprised? And what can we expect from him in his swan song because he's still playing really high level hockey right now?
- [76:54]
F
Yeah, no, I, yeah, I wasn't surprised at all, Jesse. I had his, if, if you recall, he signed a two year extension, you know, a couple of years ago for a little bit less money after his, you know, after his big deal expired. And I think that was kind of, you know, geared all along toward this moment here. I think, I think many wondered and suspected that, you know, he, this would be a natural time for him to hang them up after this year. But you're right, I mean, he's still playing at a very high level. I mean, and I think that's part of what defines Andre Kulpa's part. He's almost the quiet superstar, you know, he, he just every year you can pretty much count on him for at least 20 to 25 goals, you know, 60 to 70 points. He's still doing this at 37, 38 years of age. The consistency that, that's what defines, you know, to me, defines. He's unbelievably consistent. That's why he's going to be a first ballot hall of Famer along with all the awards that he's racked up over the years and the fact that, you know, he's done it in la, he's kind of done it in a place where, you know, at least hockey wise, you don't get the notoriety that maybe you would get in say, New York, Toronto or, you know, you know, other maybe higher profile spots. But you know, this, this is the guy who, you know, he, he's the epitome of two way center play, of being able to be just, just as good on the defensive side of the puck as he is on the offensive side of it.
- [78:29]
D
All right, let's get to our final three rapid fire questions with you here, Eric. And if you're listening. Sean was having some technical difficulties. That's why he hasn't talked in a while. Don't take it personally. If you're a Kings fan, you're wondering why Gentile went away. All right, Eric, you know the drill now. Will the Kings finish higher or lower in the standings than last season and will they make the playoffs? They had 105 points last season. Six in league, second in the division. Room to grow or do they fall back a bit?
- [79:01]
F
I will answer it this way. Absolutely, you're right. Reminded me that yeah, they did finish second in the Pacific last year. I do think that they will fall back a little bit. I don't think that they're going to reach 105 point points partially because I think the bottom teams in the Pacific are going to be more competitive and maybe a little bit tougher, you know, for them to, you know, get, get those easier points. But I do think that they will get enough to make a playoffs whether as the third place team in the Pacific or perhaps even get squeezed in as a wild. This is a quality club. They may not be top tier but they're good enough to, they're good enough to get into postseason.
- [79:44]
D
Who was their most important player?
- [79:45]
F
Eric, you know what I would say by field, but in a way too, I think true doubting, you know, is still their most important player. And I, and I say this because of like you said, we alluded to it the, the way they've kind of had to reshape the defense, you know, out of necessity without a lot of stuff, you know, Vaslav Gabakov, the traded Jordan Spence, they got Dumoulin and Cece in, in their place. You know, certainly that, that was, those were moves that were not very highly thought of, you know, in the off season. But I, but I think just for the fact that he's, he's still going to be relied on to play big minutes for this Buck o' Horan training camp. He's looking really good. You know, he played, he's coming back from that, that broken ankle last year. They really hampered him. He just wasn't the same player. He's looking really good in Cap thus far, moving along well and he's still, he's gonna, still going to be very, very important to this, to this theme and to that defense really, I guess.
- [80:47]
D
And we didn't even get a chance to talk about whether or not Brandt Clark can be a reliable top 4D man in the NHL. That's going to be a big question to Watch for the Kings, especially with the, with the changes on the blue line and. And Drew Doughty. So wish we had more time with you, Eric. Okay. We loved your Anaheim Ducks answer to this. So let's see what you got for the Kings. Can you give us a title for the King season?
- [81:11]
F
Yeah, you know what? I don't, I don't know if. I don't know if it's as humorous, but I'm showing my age again. But there was a concert film in the, in the 70s bought from LED Zeppelin called the Song Remains the Same.
- [81:26]
D
Okay.
- [81:27]
F
And so I think, unfortunately it's been that the last four years and I think it could be that again this year.
- [81:37]
G
That's.
- [81:39]
F
That again. I said that they were, you know, they'd be a playoff team again, so they'll, they'll get another chance to sing a different tune.
- [81:47]
D
Sean is providing silent applause in the chat. His mic's not working, but he wish he could cheer.
- [81:53]
B
Just crushed the Kings fans with that one. That was.
- [81:57]
F
I sit and they could sing a different. To him.
- [82:02]
D
They have the opportunity. Change. Change the tune. Change the. I don't know. Change the music documentary you're watching. I don't know.
- [82:10]
B
Corey Perry can only lose in the cup final, so they can't lose to Edmonton.
- [82:15]
D
He's hurt though, so maybe that's the. Maybe that'll. Corey Perry being injured changes the juju a bit. Maybe. Maybe. We'll see. All right, Eric, thank you so much. Five teams down, three more to go here in our Pacific division preview. Thomas Strand. Still to come, chatting about the Vancouver Canucks. But up next, it's Shayna Goldman diving into the San Jose Sharks. You open the fridge, there's nothing there. So what's it going to be? Greasy pizza? Sad drive Thru burgers Dish by Blue Apron is for nights like that. These are the pre made meals of your dreams. At least 20 grams of protein. No artificial flavors or colors. No chopping, no cleanup, no guilt. Keep the flavor, ditch the subscription.
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- [84:58]
D
Five teams down, three more to go. Here on our Pacific division preview, Thomas Strand. Still to come to chat about the Vancouver Canucks. But first, let's bring in Shayna Goldman to dive into the San Jose Sharks. Shayna, our resident prospect, Sharks expert, Panthers expert, fantasy expert, data expert. I don't know, dude. You do it all. Thanks for doing this.
- [85:22]
A
Yeah, no problem. You know, it's really fun. I guess you just whip around all the cities. I'm gonna ask for like a massive travel budget next year just to like vibe out everywhere before I do these.
- [85:30]
D
Yeah. Hey, to do the 10 minute segment on the Sharks, I think I need to be boots on the ground in San Jose for a couple days. What do we say?
- [85:37]
E
This should get you. This should get you 10 days in the Bay Area, let's say.
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B
All right, one day per minute.
- [85:46]
D
Yeah, exactly, exactly. We love that. We're, we're all going to bat for you on that. Let's start more general with the San Jose Sharks obviously finished in the bottom of the standings last season. They might be bad again this season, but also maybe entertaining and also trending in the right direction. Is that going to be enough for 20, 25, 26? Be a success is just another step in the right direction. How do you look at the Sharks this year?
- [86:12]
A
Yeah, look at other rebuilds and you see they have those like that minute of fun. Right. Like the Ducks a couple of years ago, they're scoring goals. Trevor Zegras is doing amazing things. Everyone's looking at Troy, Terry and then they were terrible the next couple years and it's like, well, that momentum's gone. You look at the Blackhawks, you're like, oh, they're going to have bizarre. This is going to be incredible. They fell flat. The vibes, they're putrid. So you wanted that. Yes, they're bad, but they're still fun. Yes, they're going to learn defensive structure, but it's not going to kill all of the offense that they generated last year. They're going to stay in games. This isn't. It's an easy two points. It's, you know, here's a competitive game, here's something interesting, and you're seeing the progress along the, along the way.
- [86:52]
E
Yeah. You mentioned the Ducks. I feel like they're. I'm constantly thinking of the Ducks when it comes to the Sharks. I know, I know Anaheim didn't have a, a player like Celebrini necessarily, but what was the story a couple years ago is like, who from this group is gonna work and who from this group is gonna fall off? Like, is Jamie Drysel gonna pop? Is he gonna be the guy? We found out that wasn't really the case. Like, is, you know, kind of sifting through, you know, the players that go from prospects to actual, you know, high end NHL players is. Is kind of a tough ask. Right. But I don't think there's any question there with Celebrini. I, I know you and I talk to a lot of people about him through the lens of the player tears of over the summer. What do you expect from him this season? And like, what's like a reasonable. Probably a better question is what's a reasonable expectation for everybody else? Because I feel like the level of. The level of expectations for him is getting kind of out of hand. Because he's great. He's great. But is he as great as everybody seems to think? Maybe.
- [87:54]
A
I know, right? Like, we're setting the bar so high for him that if he doesn't reach it, it's like everything's a failure. Even though he could still have a very good season or if you see the growth from everyone else, you're like, okay, like, the pieces are coming together. I do think he's going to have the best season on the team. I think everyone we spoke to a player tears at least was reasonable and like, in a year or two he will be tier two. And that's like a fine jump for a player with his pedigree. But for everyone else, it's like, who's going to step up, who's going to score more? And it's guys like, like eand who I think we saw a lot of defensive growth from last year. He's a good playmaker now. He's going to take the next step. And someone like Will Smith, what's Misa going to do and, you know, how are they going to use him? I think that they have enough veterans on this team because I do think that they, they sold a lot last deadline. I was a little bit worried, like, did they go a step too far when they traded Zetterland? But I feel like they've done a good enough job, like creating a supporting cast that it's not. If Will Smith doesn't score this game, like, the world is ending. And I think that's how you keep the vibes up and that's how you keep a player's confidence up. Because that's all what it's about, right? Like, we see a lot of young teams. You want to have, like, power play production to give players the boost to score at 5 on 5. Okay, well, if that's not going to happen here because, you know, who knows? Do you have the veteran scoring? So it'll keep the vibes up if these guys don't do it a five on five consistently, and I think that'll go a long way.
- [89:13]
D
Okay. But in saying all that, I feel like Sean almost got into the Macklin celebrity fund and then asked about everyone else. Like, I want to know about Macklin Celebrini. I thought he was obviously great last year. He's fun. We love the off i6 with him and Will Smith and Tyler to Foley. What does he have in store for year two other than being the guy on the Sharks?
- [89:35]
A
I mean, just like another year of greatness is like a very high bar. But I'm, I'm setting it. I think he has it. I think he's very gutsy. And I think you saw that literally from his first game when it was what San Jose against the Blues. And he had that, like, spin around, like, assist. And you're like, oh, you're attempting this already in day, like day one. This is what you're doing. Okay. And I think as the year went on, you just saw him grow and build substance below the surface. Like, you go through, like, all three zones tracking. You go through celebrities numbers, and every number is like, lights out good, right? Like, he's up there in, in the top corner of every chart. You want to see he's great in transition. He's great at playmaking. He has a great shot, too. So it's like, okay, how do you do that now across 82 games? Because obviously he missed time last year. And I think that in a way, might have helped the transition. Right. Because you go from one level to the next, and it's a different amount of games you're playing, and it's a different level of stamina you need. Okay, so now that's your building block to here. Can you do it across 82 games? And I think he can. So that's. That's what we have to look for this season.
- [90:34]
E
Well, that's like a differentiation point between him and Bedard, isn't it? Like, I feel like there are. They are talked about at this point by league folks in different terms. And I, I think, you know, the, the tracking data, the underlying numbers, all of that speaks to kind of that principle, is that there's already a level of substance to Celebrini's game and a level of diversity that you just don't see from players his age. Right. And I. I think that's reflected in. In the way. The way we're talking about him and the way that people around the league talk about him.
- [91:05]
A
Yeah. And I think two things come into that, too.
- [91:07]
E
Like.
- [91:07]
A
Like the defense is not that, like, jarring. I think with Bedard, that's like the true weakness, that now it's negating some of the offense. And I think the other part of it is there's so much substance to the offense that it's going to offset any worries that we'd have because he's so in control of the puck. Right. And once he gets it on his stick, he's shifting back the offense. Like he's. He's racing up the ice now. You're playing catch up to him. So I think that's diff. A big difference. And, yeah, we talked to a ton of people and we're like, okay, Celebrini versus Bedard, Tell us what we need to know. And we even had one person say, that's not the debate anymore. Celebrini has set himself apart and it's, let's talk Cooley versus Bedard. And even then, we might still have a discussion. So it was. It was really interesting to get different perspectives on that because I think it's. It's so easy to get dramatic with young players, especially first overall picks. Like, the bar has been set so high in the past by the McDavids, the Matthews of the world that, like, if someone isn't that immediately, like, say, Jack Hughes, we're panicking until we see otherwise. But now it's two years of it for Bedard, and now celebrating comes in and makes that instant impact. It's going to be a conversation whether anyone likes it or not.
- [92:09]
B
Speaking of young, exciting players with bars being set for expectations, I feel like we've talked a lot about the expectations, maybe from the outside. When I look at the goalie Yaroslav Askarov, who's set to make his first real NHL full season. I've been talking to some goalie coaches around the league, and I think that the expectation from inside, within the organization is really high. Like, I think they're gonna put a lot on his plate, and he's got all the physical talent in the world. His edge work is unreal. He skates as good as any goalie in the league. He's so fast and explosive, but he's a fiery kid who has a personality and likes to win. And I guess what I ask you is, like, is, could this be too much, too soon for a young goalie who's probably going to be playing behind a team that isn't great defensively without good structure? Like, is there a chance the Charlotte Sharks could do themselves some harm by giving Askarov this much at this young of an age?
- [93:01]
A
Yeah, you always run the risk. I mean, you run the risk even with goalies who are not young, right? Like, look at John Gibson every year in Anaheim. We keep going back to them, but I feel like there's. You don't want to see the parallels, right? So the Sharks have to avoid following that same path. But smell like Gibson year after year, he was good for half of the year and then hit that wall because it was just too much. So it'll be interesting to see how he handles it.
- [93:21]
E
But.
- [93:21]
A
But there have been young goalies who come into the league with that kind of pedigree and do it. Look at Chesterkin. He came up in New York when the Rangers were at their worst defensively, right? Like, Georgiev was struggling with the workload. Lundqvist wasn't doing his best with it either. And he was like, I like shots. I like scoring chances. Bring it. And it did not deter him at all. It didn't hurt his path. Every player is different, right? We all talk about progress is in a straight line. You hear the same line after line. It's the same thing. And. And you know, there's a reason we say it. The same is true with Goalies, here's a goaltender put into the situation. It's how he responds to it individually. I think the key here is going to be how the team reacts to that. If he handles it well, do they throw more to him? Do they say, this is the pace and keep it at this consistent level for a second? Or if he struggles, how do you pull back without kind of panicking and I guess messing with his mentality behind this of like, okay, you failed once. That's it for you. So I think it's going to be an interesting balancing act, but they just have to evolve once with the player and make sure they're doing what's right for him along the path.
- [94:19]
D
All right, let's wrap up our San Jose Sharks conversation with our final three rapid fire questions. We've been asking this of everyone. Shayna, you already know the drill by now. Will the San Jose Sharks finish higher or lower in the standings than last season? And are they a playoff team yet?
- [94:36]
A
Sadly, they're not a playoff team yet. Although if they somehow were even in the conversation, I think every single, every single one of us outside of the state of California, like, because Kings and Ducks fans are never going to want to see this, we'd all be like screaming for them. Like the energy from Montreal and Columbus last year, that's nothing compared to what this would be. But no, they're going to probably finish the same as where they did last year, and that is completely and totally fine as long as they're competitive and in games.
- [95:03]
B
I will say, if there's a division out there where a team like this can take a step, I feel like it's the Pacific. This is like if they were in the Central, the hopes are there's no hope in the Pacific. I feel like there is a little bit of hope if they can. If they can score some goals. All right, Shayna, who is the most important player on the Sharks this season?
- [95:19]
A
Macklin Celebrini. Yes. It's boring pick, but watch him for five seconds.
- [95:24]
E
Give us a number two. Whatever. We know, we know it's okay.
- [95:27]
A
I'm gonna go Tyler to Foley as my number two mvp.
- [95:30]
D
I think for the vibes.
- [95:32]
A
It's the vibes and he's still a good player. Like, that is a true top six winger still. And I think think his presence is absolutely massive for this team. I think he is, out of all the veterans they have brought in, by far the most important and the only guy you look at and you go, you can't move him. I don't care what deadline. I don't care if someone's offering five first round picks from there and just let him cook. He's raising them.
- [95:53]
E
Oh, yeah.
- [95:54]
D
Milk and cookies, Tyler.
- [95:57]
E
To Foley. 33 years old and still a half decent NHL player. What a miracle. God bless him at that advanced age.
- [96:06]
B
That the vibes are so good in San Jose. If that, like, the NHL needs this team to be good. Like, whether it's this year or in a couple years, the. The hockey as a whole needs this team to be awesome.
- [96:15]
D
All right, Shana, give us a title for the Shark season. You killed this when we did it in the Atlantic. What do you got today?
- [96:21]
A
Okay, we're going Radical optimism by Dua Lipa here because we are pumped about this team. You watch the broadcast and even and the commentators, they're like, this is the most fun bad team you've ever seen. There's no, like, way around it. Everybody knows the Sharks are bad, but we're all having a blast watching them. And that says something, right? Like, there's a late slate. You could pick any. Any game. Right. Because it's less chaotic then. And we're like, no, no, we want to watch the Sharks. I don't care if they lose 3, 2 in a painful way. I'm watching the first 58 minutes and I'm pumped the whole time.
- [96:52]
D
Wonder how Sharks fans feel listening to that, being like, yeah, I'm glad you're having fun. I'm in agony.
- [96:58]
E
Yeah.
- [96:58]
A
Yeah, the vision's there. I think because there's such a good vision that they can feel so different and just like, go look at Chicago if you want to know pain.
- [97:07]
E
We've had to watch first pair defense in Mario Ferraro for the last. For the last four years. Let's pump the brakes a little bit now. They're. They're a blast.
- [97:16]
D
All right, thanks so much, Shayna. Things are definitely looking up in San Jose. The vibes are high. Can the same thing be said of the Kraken in Seattle? I don't. I don't really know. Thomas Strands is coming in here to help us us preview the fourth year NHL squad. What do we think? How are the vibes in Seattle?
- [97:35]
C
Yeah, I mean, I was at their prospect camp. I was watched. Watched their preseason closely. I don't know why. I'm a sick, sick human being. And, you know, look, the Seattle Kraken, I think the. It's fair to question their overall direction, right? Just be like, what exactly is this team doing? And I don't really have an Answer for that.
- [97:59]
G
Right.
- [97:59]
C
I'm deeply concerned that they're one of those teams that, you know, partly as a byproduct of how they approach the expansion draft and partly because they hit that early success in their second season. You know, they in some ways haven't accumulated as much elite talent as they kind of need. Right. And that's one of the issues here. And yet watching their preseason play out and seeing guys like Jordan Newman, that's spelled Nyman by the way, but Newman and Edward Soleil and. Sorry, and his name's actually pronounced shalet, so 0 for 2 so far for me, you know, watching them sort of play like there is some interest. I'd add Berkeley Catton into the mix. Like, Berkeley Catton was so good at the Canucks Kraken prospect game that, you know, he was matched up against this line that had like Braden Coots, Canucks prospect. I'm sure we'll talk about. He might actually make this team. At least he's trending to give himself a chance to make the team over the second week of preseason. Jonathan Le Caramac, you played 25 NHL games last year. Like, he was matched up against real guys and they never had the puck. I mean, he had two points on the night. He keyed a third period comeback. And it was one of those games where you leave the rink being like, like, that guy was so dominant, I'm shocked he didn't have six points. Right. Like, yeah, I'm stunned.
- [99:20]
A
He.
- [99:20]
C
He's incredible. And so at the very least, there's some players taking some steps here. Right. Like, at the very least there's some guys who, you know, have that draft pedigree, have that talent and I suppose have a chance. I mean, Veneers has to get back on track and stop start playing with the swagger that we saw in his rookie year. Again. Shane Wright needs to keep taking steps and I'm a little worried that he's, you know, and this isn't derogatory by any means, but I'm a little worried that he's Sam Bennett coded in that he's like the perfect guy to put a team over the top but not be the guy and Seattle.
- [99:58]
D
Yeah.
- [99:59]
C
You know what I mean? Like, it'd be amazing if, if, if you had another guy step up so that he could be this, a second line center. But is he going to be the guy for a team like that? I'm not sure about yet. Even though I love the speed, I love the tenacity, I love the way his game is trending. I actually think we should be talking about him more because he's a, he's a really fun matchup problem. Middle six center now with upside to be more given his age and then Catton, I think a lot hinges on that. I mean, I think he's gonna get nine NHL games to start. He absolutely should. He's been incredible in both of the viewings that I've been able to have of him in the early part of the preseason. I hope that I get to see him on Friday again at Rogers Arena. And yeah, I mean, if he is a guy like, if he's a 40 point rookie who's able to add some, some flash, some dash, some creativity, then, you know, maybe we start to talk about the Kraken as a team where you can see it coming. But, but for now, as much as I've sort of talked excitedly about that, it still feels thin relative to. For example, you just talked about the Sharks and talked about how they'll be bad and they have Will Smith and Macklin celebrity. And you know, those are, those are calibers of weapons well beyond the guys that I've been hyping up in Seattle. So that's sort of the issue. It's not just can Seattle catch Calgary and Vancouver and like, can they stay ahead of Anaheim, can they stay ahead of, you know, San Jose in a year and a half? Right. It's not just what's ahead of Seattle that concerns me. It's. It's also what's coming in their rear view mirror given, you know, the way they've sort of failed to accumulate blue chip talent in their first four or five years of existence.
- [101:42]
E
Aren't they just like the prime example of a team that has a bunch of okay players that are expected to be more than that? Like, that's like there are guys on that roster who have places in one way or another on potentially good teams. Right? Like, like, but, but they're overextended. And it starts with veneers. I feel bad, legitimately bad about, about the way I've talked about and written about Matty Veneers over the past couple years because it makes it sound like he stinks. He doesn't stink. He, he's just, he's just not, he's just not a high end, 1C foundational player for a good NHL team. And I think you can apply that principle really to a lot of, to a lot of the different pieces they have. They have twos who need to, who are asked to be ones and threes that are Asked to be twos and that's kind of in place up and down their lineup, isn't it?
- [102:34]
C
Yeah, I think that's a, I think that's a very fair way of looking at it. And you know, with veneers. I, I just don't know what happened to that swagger that we saw early on in his career. I mean he had a certain two way assertiveness. Now I know he's a serious personality type. Right. And not necessarily in a bad way, in a very, you know, sort of classic hockey way, is ready for leadership at a young age sort of way. And yeah, I mean I, the speed is sort of, I think what's holding him back there. And that said, I thought he had a really nice last 30 games of the season and he's working on some pretty interesting sort of area game chemistry with Capo Caco. This is sort of again where the Cat and development is really critical in my view because is there a world where, you know, if Veneers doesn't get that swagger back, if the two way play driving doesn't get back to the level that we thought it might be when he was an 18, 19 year old player, you know, it can. Can you live in a world where he is a top line left wing, right? Can you? But I think we're at that point where we need to start thinking about that. Especially given, you know, the foot speed is good, it's not elite. And what does that sort of mean? You know, Catton's a really strong skater, Wright's a really strong skater. You know, you may end up in a position if you're Seattle where your top six features veneers on the wing. Is that something they're going to be prepared to consider? Because if Catton is who I kind of think he is, I think that might be, you know, like a dark horse talking point that might develop or crop up over the course of this year.
- [104:12]
B
I feel like right along those same lines with what everything Sean said about how everyone's kind of playing one spot above you. Look in net. Joey Decord is, has been very good for this team for three years. The question for me is though, it's like okay, I think Joey Decord in a perfect world is your 1A in a really strong tandem. But right, Philip Grubauer has been so bad and they added Matt Murray and we haven't seen a lot from Matt Murray in a while and like maybe Matt Murray can be that, that I have more confidence.
- [104:41]
C
That's a confidence inspiring thing.
- [104:43]
B
I Have more faith in Matt Murray. I have more faith in him doing that than I do Philip Grubauer. From what we've seen from Grubauer for the last few years, I have more faith in Matt Murray. But, like, the question to me isn't about Joey Decord. When it comes to the goaltending. I think Joey Decord is going to be good. Can they find a second option who so that. So Decord doesn't have to play 60 games because as good as the court is and he's. He's overplayed what anyone ever thought he would be in the NHL. But to ask you not to do.
- [105:08]
D
Not me. I liked him on the Sense. Sorry.
- [105:12]
B
To ask him to do what Shusturkin and Hellebuck are and Vasilevsky are asked to do is just too much, especially when the team in front of him is not elite. So, like, how do you feel about the goaltending? And, and can they give Decord any help?
- [105:26]
C
No, I don't think they can. And that's, I mean.
- [105:30]
D
Okay, bye.
- [105:34]
C
Lane Lambert, I think, is a pretty sharp guy. So that, you know, maybe, maybe they're able to play with a little more structure. But I, I would say you're stretching the bounds of credible argument if you're going to suggest that either Dave Haxtall or Dan Bilesmo was, quote, unquote, the problem for this team. Right. Like, I don't buy that for a second. You have watched Seattle play. Structure hasn't been their issue.
- [105:57]
H
Right.
- [105:58]
C
It's. It's been a lack of talent. Now, they do have a good NHL defense score. I mean, that is absolutely true. You know, Montour done. Alexia, you go up and down the list. They added Lindgren, who's, you know, I think a little bit past his best before date, but he's still a good player. You know, I sort of think about, you know, they, they do have a defense to help insulate their goaltenders. But I don't think enough has been made of how problematic Grubauer's play was last season. I mean, it wasn't just that they only had nine points or. Sorry, they had eight wins in his 26 starts last season. Right. So they had 17 points. You know, you get 500 point percentage. Right. You're an 85 point team and. Yeah. Is that good enough to make the playoffs?
- [106:47]
B
No.
- [106:48]
C
But is it good enough that you're playing interesting hockey until the last two weeks of the season? Yes. And that didn't happen for this Kraken team last year. They were out of it by Christmas. And one of the reasons is that that Grubauer stat I just gave you, as much as it made Jesse go, it was worse. Like he made up for it on the back end of the season because they won one of his first nine starts. Like they dropped all but two points in his first nine starts in relief of decorations board. This contract was absolutely buyoutable last summer and they declined to do it. And Matt Murray is plan B. I, I mean, honestly, if you were to ask me about like NHL Achilles heels, like which team had the most glaring, obvious, easy to correct efficiency in the league and did not take a credible shot at fixing it, your answer is the Seattle Kraken. And this comes back to the. You know, this is a team that in a flat cap era, came into the, came into the league with literally unlimited cap space, one the only one of 32 teams and decided to build through free agency. Right? They're, they're a team that, you know, just consistently seems to lack the common sense to take an obvious direction. And yeah, that has to be frustrating, not just for Kraken fans, but for the NHL. Like looking at this competitive sports market and how critical it is for this team to have some level of success to, you know, break through in a very crowded sports marketplace. I mean, how are you competing with the big dumper when you don't have direction? I mean, come on, you know, the.
- [108:34]
E
Elite Mariners catcher Cal rally, by the way, just hit home run number 60. I feel like, I feel like we need some background for, for the non baseball fans out there.
- [108:45]
B
To prove your point on how bad groove hour has been.40 the last four years. Out of 145 goalies that have played in the NHL, he ranks 145th with negative 39 goals. Say, to expect like they're 145. There is not a single one that's been worse than Philippine power.
- [109:01]
C
So I just do not understand. I cannot understand. Especially because they're goaltending at Coachella. It's not like they had some American League stud goaltender. Like their goaltending it in Coachella has not been a strength of the team either. And I just don't understand why no steps were taken to try and fix this. Especially when, you know, there was frankly an obvious one that wasn't that arduous in terms of exercising a buyout and going out and spending some in free agency. I know it wasn't a strong class for, for goaltenders, but I mean, there were swings you could take.
- [109:33]
B
There were, there were backups out there. There weren't strong starters. Absolutely. Plenty of good backups. Backups, yeah.
- [109:38]
C
There, there were ways to structure this bet so that it had a chance to succeed and you know, hopefully. Hopefully Grubauer bounces back and we're not having this conversation, but I suspect it's going to be a problem for them all year and I don't really understand why they didn't take steps to fix it over the course of the summer.
- [109:56]
D
Unfortunately, the Kraken are one of those teams where we could sit here and talk about like, oh, can Lane Lambert help ignite the offense? But to your point, Rants, it hasn't really been a coaching issue. It's an issue of talent. Let's get to our kind of rapid fire questions here. Just a reminder for fans listening, the Seattle Kraken finished with 76 points last season, seventh in the Pacific Division. I think Dom and Sean and Shayna have them projected to be fourth last in the NHL this season. Oh, wow.
- [110:26]
C
So what's the baseline? So what's the base rate projection, Sean?
- [110:31]
E
So that's a good question.
- [110:34]
C
It's got to be, right?
- [110:36]
D
I don't remember.
- [110:36]
E
I think it's high 70s. Yeah.
- [110:39]
D
But the question is, Durants, do you think they will finish higher or lower in the standings in last season?
- [110:44]
C
Yeah, I mean, I'll take them above 76 because 76 is such a, a tough outcome for this team. You know, I, I do still think they're one of those teams that's in that mix with your, your sort of Calgary, Anaheim, you know, maybe Vancouver at the top end of it tier of teams where, you know, if they end up challenging the Kings for third in the division, we won't be like absolutely flabbergasted by that development. Right. But we also won't be shocked if they're in the mid-70s again. Right. I think this is, this Western Conference is very top heavy with, you know, the obvious top four teams. And then I think there's something of a morass from, you know, five, five on down where like, you know, Winnipeg Lost Dealers and, and Minnesota, you know, what's going on with Caprizov and you know, you can make upside or downside cases for anybody. And I do think fundamentally Seattle's in that mix. It's just that their upside case is less compelling than some of the other teams that you could, you could talk about. So, you know, I'd still pick them for, for more than 76, but you know, not, not with like an inspired. Yes, it's more like yeah, they should be better than that.
- [111:52]
D
Who's their most important player?
- [111:55]
C
I think it's got to be Maddie. Veneers in big picture, right? Like big picture perspective. I think veneers getting back to, you know, being an exciting 66 to 65 point can. Can break a game open type assertive, top line caliber forward, I think is critical for this organization, not just this season, but in terms of what they're trying to build out there. So. So yeah, I'll pick Matty Beniers and you know, you can basically like, ditto that. You know, we'll be doing this next year unless he breaks through. So I think this year, though, what is year five? I mean, this, this feels like a really critical season for him to get going and show that. That Calder year wasn't, you know, just sort of not a fluke, but a. But a one off.
- [112:44]
D
Can you give us a title for the kraken season in 20, 25, 26? You can, like, create it yourself. It can be a book, it can be an album. What's the title for the Kraken?
- [112:54]
C
I feel like it's a self help book and it's what are we doing here? Maybe it's. Maybe it's what are we doing here?
- [113:01]
D
It's like a Mel Robbins book.
- [113:04]
C
What are we doing here, comma, people, question mark. That's the name of the self help book.
- [113:11]
D
That's mean.
- [113:13]
C
Is it?
- [113:16]
E
It's dedicated to Matty Beniers and the kick. And then it'll. Then it'll. Then it'll be mean.
- [113:21]
D
No, it's not his fault. All right, all right, let's move on. And we're going to keep Dr. Here because we've got to talk about the Vancouver Canucks. Never boring in Vancouver. Drance. Let's just start kind of basic with them. Can they move on from the chaos of last season?
- [113:43]
C
I mean, in so far as. Can they have a less chaotic season? I think it's, it's, you know, not usually in this organization's M.O. but I think in terms of the vibe around the team, I think it's hard to be as sneering and joyless as they were last season. I mean, it would be a shock to me if that continued. But that said, like, can they move on big picture, or is their lack of quality centers going to continue to be a story all year wherein we're never very far away from people wanting to talk about what this team would look like with J.T. miller on it? Right? No, probably not.
- [114:26]
E
You already said sneering and Joyless. I think we've. I think we.
- [114:31]
C
But, you know, I mean, let's be honest. In some ways, the context of last season is going to linger over this team, regardless of outcome. Say they hit a 10 10th percentile outcome, like top 10 or 90th percentile outcome, right. If they have their best possible season, if they're 103 point team and things are fun and looking good, you know, part of the story is going to be Pedersen bouncing back, and then part of the story is going to be Pedersen moving on from the chaos. Right. It's much like there's two sort of things that are going to hang over this team, and I think the J.T. miller departure is one of them, and I think the Quinn Hughes future is, is another one. And again, this is like both sides, right? If the Canucks start out hot, this story is going to be what does this mean? And should the Canucks push more chips into the center of the table to, to bolster their case for keeping Quinn Hughes? And if the Canucks start up badly, it's going to be like, what are this, what does this mean for Quinn Hughes's future in Vancouver? And should they consider pulling the, the ripping the band aid off ahead of schedule? Right. I mean that. So can they move past the drama of last season fundamentally, in some ways, probably not. Probably not. That doesn't mean that they can't have success. It doesn't mean that they can't have more fun. You know, I think off the ice they can move past it in terms of how they interact with one another and what this season looks like and feels like for the people in that locker room. But, you know, in terms of the conversation around the team, I think the context of last season and I think the context of this summer and, you know, the future of their captain, I think those are two sort of immutable con. Immutable concepts or topics that are going to be talking points regardless of whether or not things are good or whether or not it rains in Vancouver this season.
- [116:17]
E
We have to talk about Pedersen specifically. Like, I know we've, I know we mentioned him in the, in the first question there, but what's a, what's a reasonable expectation for him? Because when we say, like, can the Canucks move on from the chaos of last season? In some respects, we're asking whether Elias Pedersen can move on from the chaos of last season. Like, what, what is, what is going on there? What do you expect from him? How do, how much better is it is reasonable to expect him to, to perform a year out from things bottoming out on it.
- [116:54]
C
Yeah. I mean, I'm not going to sugarcoat it and sort of lower the bar because of what we saw last season. This is a gu years remaining on a what, 10.6 million dollar mega extension. I mean, this is a guy who had 101 points and was a high end play driver. Right. With defensive chops at the age of 25. Right. I mean one of a very short list of players across the last, you know, 15 years of hockey who were point per game plus players from the ages of 19 to 24 forward. Right. I mean, and that list of guys is like a who's who of the absolute best guys in the league. And so Elise Betterson should be belong among that group. I don't think it's enough for him. You know, people want to just say, well he has to perform at the level of a top line center or like at least be a point per game guy or no, like this guy has to be the sort of player whom fans and his teammates and opposing coaches game planning for him and opposing defenders checking him. No, no. Based on feel can break the game open at any moment. Right. Like is at all times, whether he's producing or not a cobra coiled to strike.
- [118:08]
G
Right.
- [118:08]
C
That's, that's what you need. That's what he's paid to be. That's who he's been or was until 20 months ago when his game fell off. Probably for, you know, a multitude of reasons, whether it was injuries or, you know, personal stuff, what have you. This guy is, you know, a supercomputer on the ice when he's on, he has an imperious presence. He's clinical, deadly accurate in terms of both his pinpoint passing and you know, that near whisper perfect shot. And we didn't see it enough last year. We saw hesitation, we saw a guy who performed at the level of like, you know, like a good second line center and, and at the end of the day that is how he performed because his defensive game wasn't brutal and they, they missed him. You could see the impact when he was out of the lineup from a play driving perspective. But it was that feel, it was that qualitative side of his game where it just looked, you know, like someone trying to get ketchup out of a glass bottle. You know, someone who doesn't like know how to chop it. And they're just at the diner just like fruitlessly shaking the, the glass ketchup container at their hash browns and you're just like buddy Slap the bottle just a little bit, chop it on the.
- [119:18]
E
Net, tap the little 57s.
- [119:20]
D
I personally put a knife inside the bottle and then scoop out the ketchup.
- [119:26]
C
See, that's very Pedersen coated from last season. I don't want no. I don't want no knife in the bottle.
- [119:32]
A
Why are you overthinking it?
- [119:33]
D
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [119:35]
C
Like, you know, I've seen you top your hash browns, but, like, I've seen you to get this right. So I just want to see a guy who acts like they've been at brunch before.
- [119:45]
B
My question is, is bigger picture. If, if things go right for this team, what's the identity of this team look like? Because last year they were kind of middle of the pack in scoring. They were kind of middle in the pack in defense. They've got one of the best defensemen on earth. They've got a lot of money invested in goalies, both of whom have played really well recently. Like, is this a defensive. Now Adam Foote comes in. Are they a defensive team or are they a team that's going to try to outscore people if things go go the way they want it to?
- [120:12]
C
Well, they better be a good defensive team. Like, they better be a goal prevention ace because they're not going to be able to outscore teams like, they're. They're not. It just. It is what it is. I mean, this is a team with like two reliable play driving forwards in Pedersen and Connor Garland. Right? I mean, if Pedersen doesn't bounce back, we could live in a world where Connor Garland is the best forward on this team because let's be real, that's the world we lived in for the second half of last season after the J.T. miller. And you know that. I mean, I'm, I'm as big a Garland believer. Like, I, I'm holding as much Garland stock as anybody, but I think it's a tough way to live if that's the reality that you've got. So they have to be a defensive team. We're seeing signs of them trying to play more aggressively. We're seeing new defensive systems designed to outnumber opponents down low like a swarm dzs. So we're seeing them sort of rethink how they can play to sort of take advantage of the mobility on the back end. A team for whom the defense should be the engine five on five. And, and likewise, we're seeing them sort of move beyond that, you know, pressure neutral zone, wedge hurting, puck carriers into the blue line where they've got, you know, 6 foot 8 defenders surfing to force dump ins and sort of move to a system where there is going to be more down ice pressure. A team that, that, you know, should try to play a little bit faster, maybe a little bit more of an aggressive style. Do they have the horses up front to pull it off? You know, I think about this like, you know, I know Haley's from Toronto. Like the SkyDome opened back in the day. Now I have a, I have a show on Roger Sportsnet, so I should call it the Rogers center, but when it opened it was the skydome.
- [121:49]
E
Is that.
- [121:50]
C
Wait, wait a second. You have a radio show?
- [121:52]
F
No.
- [121:54]
C
Yeah, I do. And, and I want to take care of my secondary employer. So when the Rogers center opened and was called the skydome.
- [122:06]
E
The.
- [122:07]
C
Everyone thought it was this like state of the art, like this is the future of baseball, right. And then the very next year, Camden Yards opened in Baltimore and everyone was like, oh, right, actually we want natural grass, we want small, intimate, we want the skyline framed. And so it was like instantly out of date. Right. And I worry a little bit that this Canucks team is built for an NHL that passed us by 10 years ago. Right? Like this. This is a goalie, a goalie forward team and a forward or a shooter forward league. Right. It's a, it's a team with a strong blue line in a league where forward course seem to matter more. And it's a team with depth on the wings in a center's league. You know, they feel like they're at conflict with the meta of the NHL in just about every respect. So, you know, what's the identity of this team? I don't know yet. It's going to have to be slanted toward the defensive side. And I just hope that they haven't built the SkyDome the year before Camden Yards opens.
- [123:15]
D
So we don't have enough time to get to Coots. I know you mentioned him in the Kraken and we were gonna maybe get to Tom Willender, but we probably need to. We've got time for one more question. And Sean and I got into a huge fight on the pod about this.
- [123:26]
C
Love it.
- [123:27]
D
Before over the Jack Hughes saying he'd love to play with his brother and then everyone freaked out about Quinn and I said, sean, you're dumb. And it was this whole big thing. But I think we have to ask the question, like, what did the Canucks have to show Quinn Hughes for him to stick around in Vancouver? And it's not because his brother plays in New Jersey it's just because the Canucks have had this chaos that you've mentioned, and Quinn Hughes could stay, he could go. What do they need to show him? Trans?
- [124:01]
C
Look, I mean, Quinn Hughes is as smart a player as I've had an opportunity to cover.
- [124:07]
F
Cover.
- [124:07]
G
Right.
- [124:08]
C
And I think he knows that they could have a fun year and a successful year because he's had fun and successful years in Vancouver. But even if this team has a fun year and Pedersen bounces back and Demko stays healthy and, you know, Tom Vlonder, you know, shows significant progress and Elias Pedersen, the defender, also show, you know, and Jonathan and some of their young guys. And all of a sudden, at the end of the season, you're looking at this team and thinking, hey, you know what? There's a path. There's a path to this being. Is he really going to look at a good season in Vancouver and be like, I'm really confident that this organization can sustain success. Like, he's lived through this.
- [124:45]
D
Yeah.
- [124:46]
C
You know, one year up, one year down, one year up, two years down. Like, you know, does. Does. He is. Can you get to a point at the end of the season where he's really confident that this team can sustain this sort of success that would have him bypass a whole host of other unique opportunities, like being the highest paid player in the NHL. The opportunity to play with two of his brothers in, you know, and live in New York City. The opportunity to go play with, you know, good friends from his US national development team days who've, like, already won Stanley Cups and, you know, play in tropical locations in the state that he was born in. On and on, right.
- [125:25]
E
Like.
- [125:25]
C
Like, this is a guy for whom the world is going to be at his absolute fingertips next summer, right? Who's going to have a ton of control, a ton of leverage, and be one of the hottest commodities, you know, we've maybe ever seen. Like, you know, I mean, we'll see how things play out with McDavid and some of those other guys, but this is going to be a unique life opportunity. And so I, you know, if the Canucks succeed, even, is that going to be compelling enough? Right.
- [125:51]
B
Like.
- [125:52]
C
Like, what do the Canucks need to show? I think they need to show what I sort of described as their best case scenario. Maybe that gets them in the door.
- [125:59]
G
Right.
- [125:59]
C
Like you hope that gets them in the door.
- [126:01]
B
And.
- [126:01]
C
And that's sort of where we're at.
- [126:03]
D
All right. I guess we'll see. Let's get to our rapid fire questions. Our final three of the day here with Drance, you know the drill now. You just did this with the Kraken. We can remind folks, the Vancouver Canucks, they were fifth in the Pacific last year, 90 point season. Will they finish higher or lower than that and can they sneak into the playoffs?
- [126:22]
C
I, I think I'll take them higher. I think their base case should be low 90s. You know, Canucks fans will say things like, everything went wrong last year and they still got 90 points. And it's like, yeah, but they also had J.T. miller for five of those months and they also had Quinn Hughes playing at a level we've almost never seen any Vancouver skater ever play at through the first 55 games of the year. So, you know, it's not like everything went wrong long. Much as people want to believe that in this market, I'll still say higher, but I think that's the right, you know, I think that's the right range for them.
- [126:52]
D
Who's their most important player?
- [126:54]
C
Quinn Hughes by a mile. Right?
- [126:56]
D
Yeah.
- [126:57]
C
I mean, I know, I know people always say like what about where's, hey dude, where's my car? When I say that Quinn Hughes is clearly the best defenseman in the world, but he is.
- [127:05]
B
So I would, I would argue Thatcher Demko and if he gets back to being VEZ in a caliber, it totally changes their season outlook if he can stay healthy. Yeah, I think this season hinges on that.
- [127:17]
C
I think the organization would agree with you. But I think at the end of the day, you know, we also know that Lankanin can provide pretty good save percentage and he's great, you know, and, and Demko's really good, but like this team's never been higher than seventh in team safe percentage during Demko's prime years. Right. I mean, since Demko took over, they've still only been seventh. So if you're telling me, you know, a guy who's never done it before, isn't this year going to bring. Make this team an elite gold, a team with elite goaltending? Like, I just sort of struggle with that as, as a notion. Like they, they should have really good goaltending, but they also have depth at that position. Right.
- [127:53]
G
So it.
- [127:54]
C
There's only one guy who can drive like Quinn Hughes who can create high end outcomes for this team. Like when Hughes. So that would be my pushback in, in selecting number 43.
- [128:01]
D
Yeah. I feel like this is supposed to be rapid fire, but Sean, definitely we, we chatted on the pod about Quinn Hughes, like heart trophy, not just Norris trophy candidacy last season. He was just that good.
- [128:11]
E
40 to 1 odds. I. I mean, me and McIntyre saw. I'd sprinkle a little bit on that for sure.
- [128:18]
C
That's the right thing. His. He shouldn't be being talked about, as you know. Is it Hughes or is it McCarr? Because the way that Hughes drives play is different.
- [128:26]
G
Right.
- [128:27]
C
Like, we are talking about an elite driver.
- [128:29]
F
We are.
- [128:29]
C
We are talking about a guy who's not in the company of McKinnon and McDavid, but is closer to that. That in terms of his impact as a skater. Right. Like, he's not in that tier, don't get me wrong. But that's the sort of player he is. Whereas McCarr is just one of the best defensemen in the world. Second.
- [128:46]
D
All right, what's the title for the Canuck season? Drance?
- [128:50]
C
Well, you know, you used a phrase, and there's actually a book by my former colleague at Post Media News, Ed Wiles, and it's called. He literally called it Never Bore. And so I think he kind of just nailed it. And. And so I think I'm gonna rip off Ed and go with Never Boring for the Canucks. I don't know if this season will be a good one. I don't know if it'll be another difficult one up in Canada's west coast, but I'm very confident it won't be dull.
- [129:18]
D
All right, perfect. Thanks so much, Trans, for sticking with us for the Kraken and the Canucks. I don't feel super optimistic, but that was fun.
- [129:26]
C
Yeah, well, you know, it gets dreary in the fall in the Pacific Northwest and the hockey teams, you know, pathetic, fallacying their way through this season should be fun.
- [129:36]
D
Yeah. I'll be sneering and joyless along with. With you. Yes. Yeah.
- [129:42]
C
Cheers, guys. Thanks.
- [129:43]
D
All right, thanks to Drans. Thanks to everyone for joining the show and our amazing producer Jeff for lining this all up. And thanks everyone for listening to the Athletic hockey shows Pacific Division preview. Jesse has all your goalie and golden tonight's coverage this season. Gentile has written 1 million words about every NHL team in his team previews this month. I've been hanging out. I'm chilling. I'm waiting for the PWHL season to start, but once that gets going, you can get all the PWHL content on the Athletic as well. Make sure you check us out on the app. And right here on the podcast and everything kind of starts for real next week here on the podcast. Monday, it's Matt, Max and Laz with Jesse. Wednesday sees the return of Sean's of the Sean's Sean gentili and Sean McAdoo and Frankie Corrado and Thursday of course with Sean and I. Plus the prospect boys are back on Fridays right here on the Athletic Hockey Show.
- [130:54]
A
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- [131:48]
D
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- [133:26]
A
Niece.
- [133:27]
D
It's filled with love, tears and laughter, balancing comedy with romance and drama. But you know what sounds right up our alley? It'll be available in the US October 24, 2025to watch on the big screen. See it at a theater near you.