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This is the Athletic Hockey Show.

Jesse Granger (2:30)

Welcome in everybody to a special holiday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. I'm Jesse Granger in Las Vegas, and I'm joined by my colleague Rob Rossi in Pittsburgh. How's it going, Rob?

Rob Rossi (2:41)

Great. It was great holidays. We've actually had a winter here in Pittsburgh before winter even began. So it was. It was a nice. It's a nice, nice Christmas. I hope everybody that celebrates had a good Christmas, and I hope everybody's doing holidays around this time is having a great time. And, you know, it's like I always say, I remember, Jesse, when the NHL gave you, like, two days off for the Christmas break, and now they get so much time. It really does feel like a chance for teams to reset. So coming out of this break, it.

Jesse Granger (3:15)

Definitely does, and it's a good time as the year comes to an end. We obviously had a bunch of great storylines in 2025. In today's episode, we're going to go through our top five storylines and things we're excited for in hockey in 2026. We are going to from five to one. So stick around for our favorite storylines towards the end of the episode, and we're going to kick it off with number five. To me, big story around hockey right now is the stuff off the ice, the business, the money side of hockey. We've seen expansion recently. We've heard lots of talk about possible expansion in the future. We've seen new owners coming in. We've seen the potential. The talks about a potential sale in Pittsburgh, and there's a lot of business going on in hockey. Of all that, what. What interests you the most? Rob?

Rob Rossi (4:04)

Well, look, I'm not saying this because I live in Pittsburgh and I covered the penguins for 21 seasons, but, you know, I can tell you for a fact that the Penguins brand is. Is pretty significantly diminished compared to where it was a decade ago. And for all the work Kyle Dubas, their general manager, has done to sort of restock their system and, you know, kind of start this, you know, I guess retooling less than a rebuild, whatever you call it, you know, it. I didn't think if FSG was going to sell that they'd be able to pretty much double the. The investment they put into the Penguins. And they bought the team four years ago for 950 million, and they're going to sell it for, you know, 1.8 billion. To me, that is a big story, not because of what it means in Pittsburgh, which is, you know, a third owner this decade. But I don't know how anybody looks at that and doesn't think, and I mean, this, any owner of any team, except for maybe the ones in Toronto and, you know, New York, the sort of the corporate ownerships, I mean, you have to be wondering what your franchise could get right now. And if a franchise like the Penguins, which is, you know, again, they, they, they're not what they were even when Fenway bought them in 2021 in terms of their brand and, you know, their revenue streams and their attendance and all that. And, you know, they've missed the playoffs three years in a row, and they just, and they got an aging superstar and Sidney Crosby and who knows how long he'll play to get 1.8 billion for that team? I mean, that means that these teams have significant value. And I would be surprised if you don't see other owners at least exploring the option of either bringing in an investor at the tick of several hundred million dollars just to see if you can, you know, add value to the franchise or see what's out there in terms of who might want to buy. Because if the penguins are worth 1.8 billion, given their state right now off the ice, there's probably a lot of teams worth it, two plus billion. And, you know, we've heard that's going to be the fee for expansion. So if you're Gary Bettman and you're the other owners, you were thrilled to hear this number.

Jesse Granger (6:26)

Yes, absolutely. We've, we've heard that, that reported that maybe the expansion fee could be 2 billion. And it's pretty insane how fast that has gone up. It's clear that business is good for the NHL right now. I believe the expansion fee for Vegas for Bill Foley out here in Vegas was 500 million. It went up to, I think, 600 million for Seattle. So to go from. To 2 billion, more than double it. And it's all. You can't devalue these franchises. The expansion fee has got to be worth more than what a team is. So like you say, Pittsburgh's 1.8. Well, the expansion fee's got to be 2 because you can't give a new team, you can't allow a new person into the club for less than these teams are worth, or you're devaluing your current teams. It's like you said, it's a sign that the business is good. Right now, Forbes has got the Maple Leafs and Rangers, which you mentioned, worth the value. I mean, obviously these are estimates and you never know how much they would actually sell for. But 3.8 billion for the Leafs, they're the number one most valuable team. And then the Rangers 3.5 billion, and then Montreal, 3 billion right behind them. It's, it's a fascinating time because like you said, not only could you Consider selling them, but also you can consider maybe selling part of the team to a minority owner. You can cash make yourself some money and still have a percentage of the team that's worth more than you ever sold it for. So you get your money. We saw the Predators bring in legendary college football coach Nick Saban as a minority owner. We don't know the details of how much he owns or how much that percentage is or what he paid for it yet, but it seems like a savvy business move to sell a percentage of the team. You've still got your percentage, and that percentage you have, even though it's not 100%, is worth more than then you paid for the team. So you, you have a good investment, plus you cash out with whatever you sell the team for. It's like I said, business is good for hockey teams right now. It's a good time to own an NHL team.

Rob Rossi (8:20)

It absolutely is. And I'm pretty sure that Nick Saban is more of a, what we would consider a traditional minority owner in that he, you know, he isn't spending hundreds of million dollars on an investment. But I think when you have somebody with the profile of Nick Saban who has a business partner, and Nick Saban says, look, I want to put my name behind the Nashville Predators, and let's face it, the Predators aren't in great shakes on the ice right now. I mean, I think that just speaks that, you know, there is a, there is a buzz with the NHL right now. I'm not going to paint a picture like everything's perfect. I mean, let's call up Spade a spade here. One of the few ways this league can generate big revenue right now is to have these teams being sold for this type of money and to bring in expansion teams at 2 billion a piece. But, yeah, I, I am curious if a year from now, Jesse, are we discussing situations that we've seen in the NBA and the NFL where for hundreds of millions of dollars somebody invests and they don't even get the majority? Because that's what we've seen in the NBA. We've seen it in the NFL. I think that's where the NHL is headed. You know, there was another story in, in December, right before the holidays that was really interesting to me because the Washington Wizards, the Washington Capitals, and I, forgive me, do not. The Washington Mystics, I think that's the WNBA team's name. One of their minority owners, Bill Gates ex wife Melinda Gates, she sold her minority share in the sort of company that exists to own those Washington teams to a Qatari fund, which means, as far as I can tell, that's the first example in the big four sports where you're going to have a minority investment from a Middle Eastern, you know, fund. And that's the next wave. And it's. That will be a thing that will be interesting to see to me how that affects the NHL, because we talk about this being a global sport, right? Having global reach. The one thing when you start talking about international investors outside of North America is they're seeing this as something that they can make money on internationally, that they can sell internationally. And that conceivably would only be big business for the NHL. If you see more of that, for.

Jesse Granger (10:55)

Sure, to transition this topic to more of on the ice stuff, the other part of the business doing well and the revenues increasing is the salary caps going up. And we're seeing it go up a lot, to the point where you have to wonder. So just to tease, our next topic, number four is all about the parity and what it's going to do to possibly the deadline. And that's going to be fascinating. But before we get to how, how much parity we have in the league, we have to wonder, will that parody last with the salary cap going up the way it is? Because you've got teams, big market teams. The team I cover, the Vegas Golden Knights, they spend every penny they can and then some. And you have to wonder if every team in the league is going to be doing that moving forward as this cap goes way up, because some of these teams are imposing their own salary cap within their team based on their revenues. And you don't want it to become baseball, where there's two or three teams that buy basically every free agent that they want. And there are a handful of teams where their fans don't have any hope going into a year because they just know that logistically their team isn't going to be able to spend what these other teams do. Do you see that happening?

Rob Rossi (12:04)

History suggests that when the number gets to be where it's going, well over $100 million, you're going to have the haves and have nots. Now, I think people have heard me say in the past, I don't like salary caps because I don't feel it's fair to the players. But. But this cap system that Gary Bettman has touted for over two decades now was instituted for two reasons. One, to control costs. They never say that's the reason, but it was to keep costs low so that the league teams could be on good financial footing. The other thing I would say it was one A is there was.

Jesse Granger (12:49)

A.

Rob Rossi (12:49)

Lot of teams that looked at the Detroit's, the New Yorks, the Philadelphia's, the Toronto's and said they're spending way too much. It's not a fair competition anymore. When this salary cap came into effect it was at like 50 some million dollars. We're going to be double that in two decades. It will be a big test of this system because there are going to be a lot of teams. I'm not talking about the small market teams like Carolina and you know, Winnipeg. I'm talking about the mid market teams like Pittsburgh which has traditionally been a cap team. Washington which has traditionally been a cap team. Are they going to have the revenue streams to be a cap team every year or are they going to have to sort of pick and choose and be like, well now our team's ready to go till to contend for a cup and now we're willing to spend it. But I, I don't see that middle group being one where there is a, a lot of teams going to the cap regularly. And you know, if you're the nhlpa, that's something to watch because although we have great labor peace right now, if this again becomes the cap is so high that you got say 15 teams that aren't spending to it, well then that's no good for the pa, that's no good for the players. I don't know what the solution is because you've already pulled the cap genie out of the bottle, right? But yeah, I think that's something to watch and it will probably be some of the same culprits. You know, Vegas will be in that mix now, but there's going to be a lot of markets I think that are, that are looking at this and going can we get, you know, we won't be far away, Jesse, from what? 110, 120 million?

Jesse Granger (14:38)

Yep.

Rob Rossi (14:39)

And when that gets to be the case, the floor rises and look, you don't have to be good at math and I'm not to do it right.

Jesse Granger (14:49)

Yep, that, that transit transitions us perfectly into our fourth most exciting topic or storyline heading into 2026, which is will this insane parody that we're seeing in the NHL this season because it is pretty unreal how much parity there is right now. Will it ruin the trade deadline? Because there aren't enough teams that know that they're sellers early enough to sell their, their, their, their expiring contracts and their assets the way we normally see at the deadline just to paint a little picture. And obviously things are fluctuating on a nightly basis. But I mean 15 of the 16 teams in the Eastern Conference are above.500 right now because of all the overtime losses, because of all the, um, we're talking a couple of points here and there are separating the final wild card spots in both conferences from almost last place teams. It is on a nightly basis. If you win your game or lose your game, you are going up or down five, six places in the standings. And the result is a bunch of GMs that don't know if they should sell or not going into this deadline. And you have to wonder, are we going to see less moves, fewer moves because there aren't as many clear sellers. It looks like Vancouver might be the only clear seller at this point right now. What do you think?

Rob Rossi (16:05)

Yeah, I think we will. And I think the trade deadline's already been diminished greatly to the point where I don't know how you fix it. I think this is going to, you know, Jim Rutherford speaking of Carolina, or excuse, excuse me, speaking of Vancouver. Carolina was his first stop. Jim Rutherford was always a proponent of having an earlier trade deadline because he thought there would be more action because more teams were in it. I will get a test of that, I think this year because you know, I don't see anybody breaking away in the, the, you know, the, as I call it, the mushy Metropolitan Division. And the Eastern Conference is sort of a woe begone conference in terms of just mediocrity. Conceivably when there are this many teams that think they have a shot at the playoffs. And let's not forget the playoffs are important to some teams because if you get three home playoff games, that can mean $10 million of revenue in a lot of markets, which is big money. Yeah, I don't think they're going to be sellers. I think it's going to take a, a courageous GM to decide a couple weeks out from the deadline. Yeah, we might, we might be in a wild card spot or we might be a point or two behind, but we're not a cup contender. And we're going to sell because that's the best thing for us. You know, the danger in doing that is how do you sell that to your room? How do you sell that to your coach? How do you sell that to your fans if you're in a market that hasn't been in the playoffs for a few years? And then the, the offshoot of that, Jesse.

Jesse Granger (17:43)

Right.

Rob Rossi (17:43)

Is you know, take a team like the one in, in your market, the Vegas Golden Knights, who seem to always be active at the trade deadline. If there aren't players to go get, then we're sort of stuck with what we've got. And I don't think anybody looks at it as though the team you build going into camp is going to be the team you keep. But if you haven't made a big move by now, I don't know that you're going to make one.

Jesse Granger (18:12)

We also have the new rule of the no double retention. You can't just trade a guy and then immediately trade him back. There has to be time in between. And I believe we already passed that deadline for someone to be able to be double traded and then, yeah, traded again before the deadline. So that is that. That in itself is going to make it harder for these contending teams. All the teams that are looking to add at the deadline are pressed against the cap. That's just the world that we live in. They have used these mechanisms of trading a player from one spot to a, to a third broker team that retains 50% of their salary and then they get the player for 25% of their original salary because of the double retention. And it allows these teams to add high impact players for very little salary cap. That rule has been changed so that they can't do that. So that's going to just on itself make it harder to make these trades for these teams that want to. And then like you said, you add in. To me, the question is it's like these, these teams that could make the playoffs that are, like you said, maybe they're a team that hasn't made the playoffs in a while. And yeah, the fans want to be in the playoffs, but if you're the gm, you have to be realistic and say, okay, but this team might be good enough to sneak into a playoff spot in a year where there aren't any. There isn't much separation. But at the end of the day, do we have the roster that can win four playoff series in a row to win a Stanley cup or am I better off trying to win next year? And like, like you said, that's not an easy decision to make because even though even the guys in the room might know we can't, we're not one of the contending teams. We aren't going to beat Colorado in a playoff series. It's not going to make it any easier to tell that room we're trading one of our best players away and pretty much getting rid of any chance of this team making a run to the playoffs.

Rob Rossi (19:54)

And I don't know what you do in an Eastern Conference where Florida is so banged up and everybody else seems to be some variation of the same team, which is a flawed team, that. Look, as I keep telling people, three teams from the Metro are going to make it, whether they deserve it or not. It may end up being 5 because the metro is just so bad that they're going to beat up on each other. And the point of this is there's going to be an Eastern Conference team in the Stanley Cup Final. We know that.

Jesse Granger (20:29)

Right.

Rob Rossi (20:29)

How if you're one of these, the entire conference at this point, how, how if you're anybody in that conference, do you make the argument that if the standings look like this, I'm coming out of the Olympic break, we're going to sell because they're all going to go, well, you know what? Why can't we be the team that makes a run like Florida did three years ago? Now, look, that was the beginning of a mini dynasty, but at that time, we didn't think Florida was at the beginning of a mini dynasty. You're going to tell somebody if Buffalo's in position or, or Pittsburgh or Detroit?

Jesse Granger (21:08)

Yeah. I mean, two of the best examples are like Ottawa and Toronto, they're both near the bottom of the standings in the East. They're, they're. I mean, just, if you just look at where the order of the standings, they're way down there. It seems like they have no chance. But they're three spots out of the or three points out of a playoff spot. And Toronto, as bad as this season's been, we know they have talent. If the goaltending, if they start getting some saves, that team, Ottawa is the same way. Like all their underlying metrics say that they're a top 10 team in the NHL. They just haven't gotten as many saves now o improved lately, but early on especially, they haven't gotten the saves they needed. Those are two examples of teams that normally, if you're in that spot, if you're the. If you're in the 14th spot in the east, you're a clear seller. But at this point, it'd be hard to argue to anyone that they should sell.

Rob Rossi (21:52)

Sorry. My. My cat Glow Bug was getting in on the action. He. He heard Toronto and just went crazy. He wanted me to. He wanted me to point out that the best trade anybody could make would be the Maple Leafs adding Austin Matthews, as we know him, before the day, right?

Jesse Granger (22:08)

Yes. Yes. All Right. Well, we're good.

Rob Rossi (22:10)

That.

Jesse Granger (22:11)

That'll do the. Do it for number five and number four. We're going to take a break and we're going to come back with number three and number two in the next segment. And number three, there's a tournament. I don't know if you know, Rob, that's happening in Italy in February. We're going to talk about that. Come back.

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Jesse Granger (24:37)

All right, we're back and we're going to talk Olympics and specifically the US Versus Canada, the North American rivalry in hockey. And we've got it in men's and women's and I am pumped for both. Let's start with the women's side because it's fascinating the way this rivalry, the, the, the path this rivalry has taken. So you go back to the last Winter Olympics in 2022. Canada wins the gold medal over the U.S. 3 to 2 in those Olympics. Since then, they've been doing the rivalry series every year where they play a best of seven series. I guess it was a best of five one of the years, but Canada won the first three in 22, 23 and 24. They won them all this year. Things got flipped on their head. Not only did America beat Canada, they beat him for nothing. And there wasn't a competitive game in, in the series. I mean, they outscored them 24 to 7. It was an absolute destruction of the Canadian women's team, the team that has been very dominant. I mean, the US hasn't won a gold medal in the Olympics since 2018, but man, did that team look good against the women in the rivalry series. To me, that sets up the most exciting Olympics that we could have had on the women's side because if Canada had won again, it would have been five straight. If you go back to the Olympic plus the rivalry series and I don't think anybody would have given the US much of a chance. But after a 4 nothing route, it's going to be interesting to see like, like I feel like the U, the, the US Women's team maybe is the favorite going Olympics.

Rob Rossi (26:07)

Well, I just like that with the women's game we actually have a rivalry as opposed to the men's game where the US Never wins. One that matters against Canada at this level. Look, I, I've said for years I am a much bigger fan of the US Canada rivalry at the women's level when it involves professionals than I am the US Canada when it involves professionals with the men. And the reason for that is I don't feel any of the animosity is manufactured. There's legitimate dislike. There's been decades of competition, there's respect. But there's, there's a legitimate, you know, one side believes it's better and, and that's on both sides. I always expect when these teams go to the Olympics that it should be the gold medal game because they are the two best nations at this. And it would be a disservice to the sport of women's hockey if it's not the gold medal game. And I hope that it is a very competitive game no matter how it goes. Because the truth is women's hockey is at the stage right now in North America with the PWHL that it needs that sort of bump to keep progressing. It needs that bump of a Canada US Gold medal game for people to be as invested in the second season as they were the first season. Because that's the whole point of why you let players go to the Olympics. So hopefully it's everything we think it will be. And yeah, it doesn't really matter what Canada did in 2022 or any year leading up to this. Right in the here and now, the United States women have proven that they've got Canada's number. Let's see, let's see.

Jesse Granger (28:00)

I couldn't agree more that it's, it's got to, we've got to get this bracket to where those two play in the gold medal game because they're clearly the top two. It would be an like stunning if those two don't end up as the final two unless they play each other in the semi. Of course, it's not quite that cut and dry on the men's side there. There's a lot of talent. Obviously Sweden and Finland, who are part of the four nations, are both strong. I love Czechist chances. I'm doing a big story on the Czech goalies with Lukas Dostahl and Karel Vomelka and Dan Vladar who's having a monster season. They've obviously got firepower up front with Posternach and Natures and Tomas Hurdle. But let's focus on the U.S. canada, even though they're not the clear cut favorites that they are in the women's, they are still the two big favorites and it's going to be a clash of the titans. And the four nations was amazing. Obviously we had all the fights and the first game was amazing. The second game, the gold medal game goes to overtime. It was as thrilling as it could be. It's all setting up for. And then I hear players like Jake Ottinger talking the other day about the potential of playing in the Olympics and him saying those four nations games felt like game seven of the Stanley Cup Final. And he expects the Olympics to be ten times that. When you hear star players talking about the way they're looking forward to these games, I. Maybe it's setting us up for a letdown, like you said. Maybe the men, maybe the, the animosity is not quite as real as it is in the women's because they haven't been playing each other as much. But, man, are my hopes high for this Olympics. Like I could not. My hopes could not be higher than. Than they are going into these Olympic Games.

Rob Rossi (29:34)

Well, look, I'll. I'll be happy if the ice is playable when we get there. For the women, that's.

Jesse Granger (29:41)

That's another story. Yeah.

Rob Rossi (29:44)

I'll just say this. I think it's going to be a far more competitive men's tournament than a lot of casual observers that are tuning into the Olympics but don't follow international hockey. And I even mean that by NHL fans. I think it's going to be a lot more, you know, like you said, Czechia is a dark horse. I would probably, if it wasn't for Barkov's injury, probably. I would probably lean to Finland. It just seems like they do really well as Finland or Sweden. To me, that's the true men's rivalry, Finland versus Sweden. But look, the US And Canada, it would be the best thing for the NHL, for people like us who talk hockey for a living, if those two teams would, you know, have a gold medal game like they did in 2010. But, you know, I just go with this when it comes to that rivalry, call me when the US Beats them in a game that isn't a round robin game. And I don't mean that as a knock on the U.S. but the U.S. national team, when it involves professional players, has progressed to the level where it needs to beat Canada on a stage where it eliminates Canada. For this to really be a rivalry, in my opinion, because all of the wins in any of these tournaments, whether we're talking 2010-2000, the. Sorry, last year in the Four Nations Frozen Four, I got so many names, they don't count. They don't mean anything. And that means that in a game that matters, to advance in an elimination game, the US has to be better than McDavid, McKinnon, Crosby, who seems pathologically driven. Yeah.

Jesse Granger (31:43)

And.

Rob Rossi (31:43)

And maybe Celebrini. Right. Like maybe.

Jesse Granger (31:46)

And Bedard, if he's healthy in time yeah, right.

Rob Rossi (31:49)

Like, it's. It's. Jesse, what strikes me as so wild about this is a year ago, if we would have had this conversation, we would have said the US Is as close to Canada when it comes to the professional players to go for an international tournament as it's ever been. And this is the. This is going to be the golden era for the US and since then. Since then, it's been made increasingly clear that not Only are Connor McDavid and Nathan McKinnon still in their primes, right. Not only is Sidney Crosby doing things at 38 that cyborgs only dream of, but Matthew Schaefer, Connor Bedard, Macklin Celebrini, the US has nothing like any of those three on the way. So this is. I think if the US Is ever going to beat Canada, it better be now, because four years from now, except for maybe Crosby, all of those guys are going to be on the Olympic team. And I don't know where that next wave is coming for the US in terms of guys that make that type of impact.

Jesse Granger (32:57)

You're right. You're right. It's. It's the new. The next wave certainly seems like it's in favor of Canada, and I agree. And even, Even this current team, if you just go position by position, Canada is the better team, is the more talented team. As the goalie guy, I've got some hope. I've got some hope for America just because of those guys. Now I realize you can only play one goalie at a time. It doesn't matter how deep your goaltending is, when at the end of the day, it's your one versus their one. But the embarrassment of riches the United States has in net is stunning compared to these other countries. I mean, Connor Hellebuk comes back three weeks after knee surgery. He's like three weeks earlier than expected. And he looks amazing. He's. The jets were completely lost without him. It shows that that Heart trophy was so deserved last year. I think he's the most valuable player in the sport. He's your one. You've got Jeremy Swayman, who is a stud goalie who's having a career year. He's bounced back after a disappointing first year as the starter in Boston. He has been phenomenal. I think Jeremy Swayman is starting for every country except for the U.S. and then you've got Jake Ottinger, who's one of the best young goalies in the league with tons of playoff experience. He's still there. Spencer Knight is having a ridiculously good season in Chicago. I would argue Spencer Knight would be starting for most of the teams and he won't even be on the US roster. You can only bring three goalies. I highly doubt he'll be brought over a Swayman or an Ottinger. He's the fourth best goalie in the US and he would be starting for pretty much every other country. If the US Is going to take down Canada, that's the way they do it is by their goalie just goalieing them. And Jordan Bennington won it. He was spectacular in the overtime of that, of that four nations gold medal game. But he's having an awful year, probably the worst year of his career. Logan Thompson looks like the best goalie for Canada, but he's, he's not as established as a guy like Hellebuck. He doesn't have the experience in the playoffs that Ottinger does. It's going to be super interesting to me. That's the one big stone that the US has to throw and maybe that can take out Canada because I agree with you. Roster position by position. Canada is clearly the better team.

Rob Rossi (35:06)

It's the most important position in this sport. In normal circumstances, when you're talking about a single elimination tournament, it's the only position that really matters. We have seen this tournament be won by nations whose goalie just refused to let them lose. I'm old enough.

Jesse Granger (35:24)

1998. Yeah.

Rob Rossi (35:26)

I'm old enough to remember in 98 when we again were talking about Canada and the U.S. and you know, the Czech Republic, as it was called at the time, had the two best players in the world. They had Dominic Hashuk and goal and Yarmier Jagger at winger and Jagger didn't even have a great tournament. It was just. Hasic was like, yeah, go ahead, try to beat me. What's fascinating to me about this is I've now lived long enough to see Canada go from having an embarrassment of riches at the most important position. Like Marty Brodeur couldn't play because it was Patrick was job. And then you know, Mark Andre Fleury couldn't even practice because you know you had Martin Brode or Wango, right? Like, and you're talking about guys that are up there in like the most wins ever in the NHL, right? And now we don't even have a clue who the goalie should be. And the reality is there's not a more pressure position in hockey than being the goalie of the Canadian team in an international competition. It's. It would be the equivalent if American football was in the Olympics. And you were the quarterback of that team.

Jesse Granger (36:41)

Right.

Rob Rossi (36:42)

And there's a ton of pressure. So, yeah, I. As much as I want to say, I'm never betting against that group in Canada. They don't play goal. Actually, Crosby does play goal. So that might be an option.

Jesse Granger (36:59)

Should be fun. It should be fun. I cannot wait. I hope it lives up to the hype, the sport of hockey. We just talked about how great the business is in hockey. If we get an epic Olympics, if it lives up to the hype and we get a US Canada gold medal and it lives up to the hype, the business of hockey will be in an even better spot in 2027. All right, moving on. Number two. The number two storyline we're looking forward to in 2026. Can the Florida Panthers do it again? They are looking to get back to the finals for a fourth straight year. They are looking for their third straight Stanley Cup. It has been a very, very long time since we've seen either of those things happen. It's been a rocky start and obviously the Barkov injury is a massive, massive hit to that team, and we've seen that. But they are playing better lately and they do still have the talent. And I guarantee if you ask every one of the teams in playoff position, the east would you like to play the Florida Panthers in the playoffs? The answer will be no every single time. Despite the fact that they aren't looking like the top team that we've seen over the last couple of years. What. How do you view the Panthers at this point?

Rob Rossi (38:00)

Well, you know, we were talking earlier about trade deadline and will there be moves. But I guarantee you this, if there is a move, it's going to be, you know, Bill Zito making it because that's just what he does. And who knows, he might have a ton of cap space to go do it because of the Barkov situation. I don't want to say no because the east is just so mediocre and the Panthers are built to win playoff series. Still, what concerns me about it is they've been playing a lot of guys in situations that they didn't they wouldn't normally expect to play them in in terms of minutes. And this is a group that has had a lot of guys that are holdovers from the team that not only went back to back as champions, let's not forget they were in the Stanley cup final three consecutive years. They lost that first year. There's a reason no team other than the Islanders have gone to four in a row. But I'm not going to say no because I don't look at anybody in the east and say Florida without Barkov can't beat them in a seven game series. And there are teams that I, you know, think will be in the playoff field and I still think Toronto is one of them. Toronto and Tampa don't want to see the Florida Panthers. And you look, I saw this when I covered the Penguins and they went back to back until you, until you beat that team that's won it two years in a row. You got it. You got to kill that team. You know, I always say the Washington Capital Stanley cup in 2018 means more than a lot to me in this era because they took out a two time defending champ on the way doing it. That's, that's a harder road to travel. So yeah, I'm not going to say no. I wouldn't bet on it. But I, who in the east is demonstrably better than Florida right now, even without Barkov? Right.

Jesse Granger (40:00)

To me, the best team in the east is Tampa. But we just saw Florida beat Tampa and like those teams have, have played some rough games. I mean they, those games are fun. Those are. We just talked about the rivalries in the international play. I think the best rivalry right now in hockey this season is Tampa and Florida because they're trying to kill each other every time they play. Florida had an impressive win over Tampa in late December. They won 6, 7. They, they're getting big, big. Like Carter Verheagy has caught fire. Brad Marchand is playing great. Seth Jones is leading the team in minutes by like four minutes more than the next player. Like this is a guy who we thought was toast in Chicago. He, he gets that big contract. He's playing on a bad team. He, we thought he was toast. Florida trades for him and all of a sudden he like in the playoffs he kind of stepped in as like a smaller role player. Like he's not what Seth Jones used to be, but he can, he can play a role. Well now they've had these injuries and he's just back to being Seth Jones of old Seth Jones in Columbus. He's looked awesome. And I, like you said, I wouldn't bet on it. I think at this point I would bet on it. I think to me, I think to me Tampa or Florida are the two favorites to come out of the East. For me at this point and the way they've played in the playoffs, I just give the edge to Florida even without Barkov. I think I actually, as crazy as it is, I think I would bet on Florida to come out at this point just how they've looked lately.

Rob Rossi (41:23)

I am going to make a prediction right now that is going to surprise a lot of people. I think the Ottawa Senators will represent the Eastern Conference in the Stanley Cup Final.

Jesse Granger (41:36)

I like that. I like that. I like has been playing better lately.

Rob Rossi (41:40)

I think the east is ripe for a year. I think they got just enough experience last year to, to learn from it. And I think that Senators team could look the Florida Panthers in the eye because of their Tkachuk brother and be like, you know what, bring it guys. Let's see.

Jesse Granger (41:57)

So which. And just again, back to the parody. How wild is it that you say you think Ottawa represents them? I say I think that sounds like a, like a. Like it could happen. There are three teams currently below them in the standings in the east right now.

Rob Rossi (42:10)

Right. Right.

Jesse Granger (42:11)

And we think there's a legitimate chance they play in the Stanley Cup Final. It's. It's been fun. It's been fun. And this has been to me, one of the most fun seasons in the NHL in a long time because we're finally seeing turnover. It's a league where good teams stay good for a long time and bad teams stay bad. And you don't see a whole lot of turnover. But to me, we are seeing a revolution, a youth movement in the NHL. And that's what we're going to talk about when we come back from the break for our final topic. The young breakouts we've seen have been so exciting and we're going to talk about can they continue into the playoffs?

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Jesse Granger (45:23)

All right, we're back and we're going to talk about at least my number one. I don't know, I won't speak for Rob, but this is my number one storyline going into 2026. I am so excited about it. The youth movement. And Rob, you're in Pittsburgh where we're seeing the opposite of that. We're seeing the elderly movement. The guys that we thought maybe didn't have another run in them. Maybe they do. But outside of Pittsburgh, everywhere outside of Pittsburgh in the NHL, we are seeing Macklin Celebrini, just his coming out party. Not only the best, one of the best young players, but just flat out one of the best players in the entire NHL. And the same thing's happening with Connor Bedard in Chicago, Matthew Schaefer in his rookie season on Long Island, Leo Carlson over here on the west coast in Anaheim has been spectacular. And we see the Ducks tied atop the Pacific Division right now in goal. The guys I pay the closest attention to, we're seeing guys like Spencer Knight in Chicago. We already spoke about how awesome he's been. Jesper Walstedt, the maybe the best nickname in all of hockey, The Wall of St. Paul has been spectacular for the Wild Askarov in San Jose, he's leading that charge, just like Celebrini and Will Smith are. It has been so much fun. But the question I have to you, Rob, is is this a fun regular season story or are we going to see some of these young kids that are playing for teams that we haven't seen make much noise in the playoffs? Is this going to be a fun regular season story or are we going to actually see some, some action in the postseason from this youth movement?

Rob Rossi (46:48)

Well, I, I, I am lobbying the NHL to put San Jose Chicago in the east because I think they, they'd be a top four team, either one of them. But that's a tough part, right? Like these guys are predominantly in the west, and the west is like the main event where you've got, you know, probably three or four really good teams that won't make the playoffs. And in the east you've got like three or four good teams maybe. I, I, I want it to be a situation where Celebrity and Bedard get in. I don't think it will be. I think those teams still have much to do. I hedge my bet a little bit on the Sharks, if only because as you mentioned, they've got more than celebrity. And celebrities having the type of ascension that, but look, I, I shouldn't say this because I believe Sidney Crosby is a unicorn in a lot of ways, but I covered Sidney Crosby his entire career and the jump he made from his first to second season is very similar to what you're seeing Celebrini make. And celebrity seems to have that sort of pathological drive that Crosby has and that maturity where, I don't know that we won't be saying at the end of this year. Macklin Celebrini isn't the best player in hockey. It would be fabulous if Bedard and Celebrini got in. I do think the Ducks will get in. I trust that coach to navigate this. I trust Joel Quinville to navigate the young team. And they will hit bumps.

Jesse Granger (48:36)

Bumps.

Rob Rossi (48:36)

But I think that that that team more than any reminds me of the early teams I covered in Pittsburgh. Not that they have a Crosby or Morgan. Carl. Carl. They. They have a group, though, like Pittsburgh did. Excuse me, I tripped over my words there. They have a young group that seems to galvanize them and keep pushing them, and they've added some veterans to kind of show them how to do it. So I think that's a team that will be in the playoffs. But, you know, I'll just say this. We might be disappointed if the Sharks and Blackhawks don't get in. Talk to me in five years, because that might, by then, we might be sick of celebrity and Bedard doing their thing in the playoffs.

Jesse Granger (49:20)

So, yeah, you talk about the comparisons to Pittsburgh. I think of that Penguins team getting Mark, Andre Fleury, Malkin and Crosby in first rounds basically back to back to back. And that just sets the groundwork for multiple Stanley Cups. And it's hard not to look at celebrity Will Smith and Yaroslav Askarov. And I know that Sharks traded for Askarov. They didn't draft him, but same positions. It just feels like three young superstars. And if they hit and like goalie. Goalie position is fickle. Like, you can go from being a superstar to. To. To out of the league very quickly. But if they hit on those three, and I. And I am as high as you can be on Yaroslav Askarov, I think he's all the physical tools to be the best goalie in the world for a very long time. Will he get there? Mentally, that's tough to project. Like reading the plays and stuff. That's. It's very tough to project. But if they hit on those three, if Celebrini and Will Smith are what we think they are, and Yaroslav Askarov is a stud in net, that team is set up to be good for a decade.

Rob Rossi (50:20)

Yeah, it is. I'll say this. The.

Jesse Granger (50:22)

The.

Rob Rossi (50:23)

The pushback on that is we tend to forget that Sidney Crosby was a Hart Trophy winner and a scoring champion in his second season. And if getting Malkin second season, he finished second in the heart race and second in the points race behind Alex Ovechkin. Those two were the two best Centers in the world by their second season together. I'm not saying that because like, hey, I'm pro Pittsburgh, I like to temper expectations. We forget how advanced those guys were. That said, what I do think is similar is Smith celebrating they're growing together, that the dynamic is similar. There's a clear buy in. There's no ego there. They seem to be guys that are driving each other. And when you can go 1, 2 at that position, you know, and you have a goalie that look, any young goalie is going to have growing pains but. And you have an uber talented young goalie, all of a sudden you become a number three center. A defensive number three center like Jordan Stahl was away from being a crippling nightmare matchup in a seven game series. Of all the young teams we see emerging, the Sharks are the one where I think they may, they may when they get into the playoffs, make a deep run quick. Well, they may not need a lot of time to, to, to mature. They may not need a lot of time to marinate because at when you can go down the middle like they have the potential to go, you know, maybe they find that number three center on free agency. They might be a team that can afford to overpay for a guy like that. But if you can find that type of like that's that Pacific division is going to be looking up at the San Jose Sharks. They're going to be looking at them in the playoffs for a long time with those guys. If this keeps tracking and going, how the hell do we beat them 4 out of 7?

Jesse Granger (52:27)

Yeah, it feels like they have the highest ceiling of all these young teams. And to go back to the Ducks, to me the Ducks, they may not have quite that in terms of like the elite high end talent, but to me the Ducks are more ready right now. Like you said, I think with Quinville Carlson. Leo Carlson is a grown man. Like I know he's what is he, 19 or 20, but he doesn't play like a, like a young kid who's, who's like most of these kids rely on their finesse and their skill and their hands and their speed. Carlson is just a man winning board battles. He is a huge, huge kid for how, for how young he is. Like not just height wise but just he's like built like a grown man.

Rob Rossi (53:09)

I'll lean on something the late great Ray Shiro said to me about Jordan Stahl when they picked him in that draft because you know, Jonathan Taze was available to them. Phil Kessel was available to them. And he said, jordan Stahl is the type of guy that wins your Stanley cups. And in 2009, it was Jordan Stahl being just, at 20 years old, a man among men, or 21 years old and able to take down veteran Detroit Red Wings and just shut them down. Carlson reminds me a lot of that. You know, I think this is the most exciting storyline of the year. But I do want to say, because I'm around the old guys, I don't remember in my life as a NHL writer for, what, 20 plus years, or even before that, where we've had a time where you've had these young individual talents sort of arriving. We've still had these guys that are in their prime, the KALE Macar's the McKinnon's, the McDavid's. And we've had this weird thing where, like, Alex Ovechkin and Nikita Kucherov and. And Evgeny Malkin and, yeah, Sidney Crosby, like, these guys are still really good.

Jesse Granger (54:19)

And Sergey Bobrovsky, like, he. Yeah, it's. Yeah, the old guys aren't going away.

Rob Rossi (54:24)

No, it's. If the NHL can't figure out how to expand its fan base with what's going on, then they should stop trying. Because this has been one of the most fascinating and enjoyable and organic seasons when it comes to individual storylines. Because you can see that, you know, it's like then, now, forever, right? Well, like, the forever guys are in their late 30s. The now guys are doing the things we're seeing at the top of the scoring title. And then you got this other group. It's just. It's been. It's been breathtaking. And I don't think anybody saw this developing the way it did.

Jesse Granger (55:06)

Yeah, it's. It's been awesome. I've said it multiple times, and you just laid it out perfectly. It is as interesting of a season of hockey as we've ever had. And we're. We're only a few months into it. We've got the good part still to come. That's the. That's the exciting part for me is like, this. This is usually the time of year where we're like, man, can we get to the playoffs already? The good part is still to come. The main event we still have, and hopefully it lives up to what, the beginning of this.

Rob Rossi (55:31)

And, Jesse, we are going to get either Dallas, Colorado or Minnesota going home in round one because of the crucible that is that playoff format. And I firmly believe when we go into the Stanley cup playoffs, all of us, when we do Our athletic pool are going to be picking one of those three teams to come out of the west. Or maybe we go. You know what? They're going to beat the snot out of each other. It's Vegas's time again.

Jesse Granger (56:02)

Or Edmonton. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's, it's, it's, it's been awesome. Well, that was our look ahead to 2026. It's been an amazing 2025 of hockey. I hope 2026 is even better. Thanks to everybody for listening. Thanks to Rob for joining me and our producer Jeff for doing an awesome job behind the scenes. Thanks everybody for listening to the Athletic Hockey Show. Max, Corey and Scott have the next few episodes on the feed following the 2026 World Junior Championships in Minneapolis where they're all watching all these young superstars that will be doing what Celebrini does here in a few years. Our next regular athletic hockey show will be Monday, January 5, 2026 with Matt, Max Boltman and Mark Lazarus. Have a safe and happy new year and enjoy the hockey.

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I'm not.

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