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- [00:01]
Mom
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Sean Gentili
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Shayna Goldman
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- [01:35]
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- [02:10]
Verizon Advertiser
This is the Athletic Hockey Show.
- [02:25]
Shayna Goldman
What up?
- [02:25]
Sean Gentili
What up? It's the Athletic Hockey show for May 7, 2026. I am Sean Gentili. I am joined by Shayna Goldman, SG1. That's her. No Haley. She's somewhere. No Mac and do no Max. So whatever. It's a major upgrade because Shane is smarter than everybody. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello.
- [02:46]
Shayna Goldman
Hi. Thanks for pumping my tires early. Now I'm energized. And ready to rip today.
- [02:50]
Sean Gentili
Yes. Let's go. We're all. We're all psyched. We're not tired at all. The two of us are rolling. Producer Jeff is rolling. Nobody. Nobody is exhausted. No. Nobody feels stupid right now. Let's go. Let's just talk about the games last night. The first one. First one is savers halves. That's a. That's a big start for Buffalo. There isn't a Shayna. I watched it in a bar in Philly. The Sixers were playing, the Phils were playing, and I went in and was like, yo, can you turn one of these TVs to TNT? And the bartender was like, yeah, TNT. Like, it did, like, register that it was even hockey. He thought I wanted to, you know, put on Franklin and Bash or something. He was like. He was like, yeah, I don't think anyone's watching that one in the corner. We should. We should. We should be all right. So, yeah, I made at least some portion of. Of the people in that bar watch. Watch Savers for Canadians, too. What are your initial thoughts come out of that one? Because I know. I know I have some. But when you were watching that one last night, what. What crossed your mind?
- [04:00]
Shayna Goldman
I was curious how the Sabers were going to do in this series, because I don't feel like we saw their A game against the Bruins, but they were able to beat them enough with their speed and with their forecheck that you were like, okay, it. You know, it was a mismatch, and we always knew it. But here is a totally different opponent. Here's someone that plays with a lot of speed in the Canadiens. They're also a young team. They're great off the rush. So I think that first period, there was a pretty long sequence of no stoppages, and it was back and forth a bit, and it was like, okay, this is your new series. Like, wake up, everybody. Here we are. And, you know, I'm. I'm curious how both teams are going to adapt here, because I think the Sabres handled it well. But now it's up to the Canadians, who, again, they're going up against a much faster opponent, too. They looked like the younger, speedier team against Tampa Bay, and now you get a totally different opponent in the Sabers. So that. That was like my initial. Like, we're a couple minutes in, and it's like, wake up. Here we are. It's round two.
- [04:55]
Sean Gentili
Yeah. Like, this might. This. This is definitely a rush game. This might be a rush series. I feel like that was. That was the Takeaway there. The, the. The pace in that first period was nuts. You mentioned how long they went without a stoppage. It was, it was pretty wild. They jumped out 1 0. The Sabres did. It was a, it was a goal by Josh Dunn. But the, the whole sequence, the whole. We'll talk about him again in a minute, I think. But the whole sequence was kickstarted by Zach Benson. He, you know, Lane. Lane Hudson has that turnover along the boards. Pretty rough first period for him. Benson seizes on it and just, you know, create some, Create some chaos. Makes a really nice play to. So that's, I think, an extension of the way he played from the first series where he looked like a difference maker. Did he get it to McLeod? And then down it was those guys working well as a unit. And I think that's a carryover from the Lightning series in a positive way. Like, it's good if you're Buffalo to have those guys contributing. You don't have to rely on Tage Thompson. You don't have to rely on the power play, which hasn't been good. You know, that you can get, you know, consistent quality chances from, from that second layer. And that's what, that's what good teams do is they got guys like Zach Benson and Josh Dunn and, you know, Ryan McLeod to, to make actual real measurable differences. And I think we saw that early.
- [06:22]
Shayna Goldman
Yeah. And it feels like of all the players on the Sabers, like if you were going into the playoffs, like, well, who might be a breakout player to watch? And it was Josh Doane and Zach Benson easily. Like they proved it all regular season long and then just the playstyles of it too. Like, they can play off the rush, they can move the puck really well. Both of them have that top six upside, but they also have those skills that you think of in like a prototypical third liner. Like, they're great board checkers. They're so pesky, they pressure for turnovers. They. Zach Benson is just a total all around pest. He. He is thriving in this environment, totally rising to the occasion. And it's such a good sign because, you know, for the Sabers, Tate Thompson's line is going to get those top matchup minutes, right. He's going to see a lot of Suzuki in the series and a lot of Dobson. So Lane Hudson isn't someone easy to just take advantage of. And this isn't even the case of what you would expect. Right? Like the. Can Lane Hudson make it among men and among these. You know, they just got through the Tampa Bay series doing that. It's. Yeah, young players with a lot of speed. And in Benson and Doan's case, they play with a lot of, like, tenacity going up against Hudson. Them going is a great weapon for the Sabers. I was a little worried about them being stacked on the same line going to the playoffs. And it's worked. It hasn't looked imbalanced at all. And if they get someone like Sam Carrick back, they'll have that kind of pesky energy through more combinations, which is a good thing. But to me, it's always listed as the third line. I look at it like, that's your second line and you should play it. No, not at all.
- [07:50]
Sean Gentili
Yeah, because Carrick gave them huge minutes down the stretch too. Right. Like the, like his absence. It seemed Sabers fans in my life, they were. They were worried about what they would look like without Sam Carrick, and they haven't. You know, here they are. Right. Like, it's. It's terrific. I know can imagine that, like, Sam Carrick is the key to all of it. Right. But there was, that was not unfounded. There was reason, you know, to believe that they would, you know, really miss something without him in the mix. And that's not, that's not the way it's been. I wanted to mention done again specifically. Honestly, I sort of. I like, I like mishmashed the. The first two goals there because he, you know, scores the first one, wins a puck battle on the second one to get it to Benson, who ended up hooking up with McLeod. And then on the, on the fourth goal, which was the Beau Byram goal, it was. It was Doane setting a pretty. A pretty gnarly screen out front. So, you know, he's been. This is nothing new. He's been great, great for them since the jump. You know, it's. We go back. We go back to the trade, to the Paterka trade, man. Like I. It's still. It's just so funny that we looked at that and we're like, okay, this is great. Because Buffalo gets two elements back. They get Kesselring and they get. And they get and they get and they get Josh Doane. Kesselring's been, you know, was a non factor for the most part in the regular season, but it still kind of feels like they won that trade because of how good Josh Doane has been. Like in last night. You know, it's impossible to impact the game as a depth for it. Well, second line, whatever, middle six forward, let's say, in More ways than that because he's scoring, he's winning puck battles, he's setting screens. Like that's exactly what you're looking for, right? And I think that was, that was a big takeaway for me. Last night was, was what it, what a difference maker he looked like.
- [09:38]
Shayna Goldman
Yeah, Josh Stone rocks. One of my favorite players to watch this year.
- [09:42]
Sean Gentili
He's chaotic, man. I love it.
- [09:44]
Shayna Goldman
Yeah, he does a little bit of everything. You mentioned that trade like Kesslering you would think would have been more of the centerpiece because they needed a right handed defenseman and it just hasn't worked out. He's been injured, he hasn't been as consistent enough. Doane instead is like when the trade happened you looked and you're like, you know, he could have shades of Brandon Hagel a little bit in there, but he's got to pick up the production and he's done all that and more and it's like that's why. That's one of his like stronger comps this year and it makes a ton of sense and like sure could his career go a different path, but it, it just feels like he keeps leveling up. And you mentioned on that fourth goal like the power play. I've been trying to track their entries this whole time because they're so bad. So bad. You look at that first attempt, they, I think they attempted to regroup seven different times and only got in twice with possession. And that next, that's not good. It's not good at all. And the carrions are from that second unit. You know, it's McLeod and Benson the first go. But then you look at that power play there and Doan gets the entry, carries the pucking right. Right in which I didn't know you're allowed to do for the Sabers without a million drop passes and you know, these pass entry attempts that aren't working. But he gets in. Him and Benson battle for puck possession. They're great puck retrievers on the power plan. It's exactly why, I don't know they should be on power play one but you know, they do the little things that you're not seeing enough with the top unit and, and Byron takes shot, they get the face off, they actually win an offensive zone draw which they haven't been doing a ton. And it sets up that Byron goal. It's all the little things. And then obviously on that play itself he's screening the goalie so he's making his impact known all over the ice. I think he's such an X factor in this series. Same with Benson. It just feels like a lot of the time when you hear about these third line guys, it gets overhyped. Right. And let's say in theory, they're third line guys. You think of the Tampa Bay area and, like, it's Barkley Goudreau and Blake Coleman, and they're great players to have, but the reason we're talking about them is, like, the top six is so good, and now you have this next wave on the third line. So it feels like that could be the case here, especially if the top six just keeps producing a little bit more. Right. Like, if they're getting that or if this eventually just becomes the second line, who's to say? But it'll be that next wave that every single team needs to go on a deep run. And that could be. That could be huge in the series because Montreal got those depth contributions in round one.
- [11:55]
Sean Gentili
Yep. Yep. That's. That seems like that's where stuff's gonna get decided because, like, even, you know, let's say the top lines play each other, do a draw, that's like, kind of. I. I don't. That's not really what happened last night because we didn't see a ton of, like, hard matching, you know, between the Thompson line and the Suzuki line, which I thought was kind of interesting from Lindy Ruff. He talked about it post game. It's. It's in the story that Fairburn and Arpin filed, but, you know, it. It is. It's an interesting approach. Right. Cause they didn't really hard match anybody there. Even though he had the last change. Ruff did. It was a 43x goal share for. For. For the Suzuki Caulfield Slafkovsky line, which, like, you know, you'll certainly take if you're Buffalo. I think they, you know, there were no. No goals scored while. While they were on the ice. Any capacity. I. I think, you know, that's something you accept and say, yes, thank you very much. Whenever you have the Josh Downs and Zach Benson's and Ryan McLeod's of the world that are. That are looking like difference makers, like, you don't need to. You don't need to necessarily get. You know, yeah, you'd love it if the power play were clicking. You'd love it if you were finding some way. Some way to, you know, win the minutes against Suzuki even more dramatically than you did. But, you know, game one, it wasn't necessary either, because you had those guys. You had those guys healing business.
- [13:10]
Shayna Goldman
Yeah. And we'll Sorry. We'll see how that goes for, you know, series shifts back to Montreal. It's like, let's see how that goes. Because if that line is going and we're going to assume the Canadians do a little more hard matching because that's what they've done through a lot of the year, you're gonna assume that Suzuki line is glued to the Tage Thompson line. But like, yeah, the conversations change by game three depending on the interest running hot. Who knows?
- [13:30]
Sean Gentili
It's gonna be interesting. I should watch that. That's something I watch in game two is. Is the minutes and who plays against who. Because you can bet whenever it goes back to the Bell center, man, it's going to be. It's going to be one against one because that's how that, that's how they rolled and that's how, you know, they won. That's a big part of the reason that they're in this series in the first place. Right?
- [13:49]
Shayna Goldman
Yeah.
- [13:50]
Sean Gentili
Vegas Ducks. Game two is three one Ducks. That was a score that I don't think was indicative of how much Anaheim dominated that game. Pretty smoked them pretty good in the first period. HD chances or high, high danger chances were 11, three after two. But it was only, it was only one nothing, which is funny. They jump out, get a two goal lead in the third, and that's from Troy Terry, and they score an empty netter to make a three nothing. So like, you know, three one, there's an empty netter tacked on or not an empty netter, a power play goal tacked on by. By Mark Stone at the end of it. So, you know, the score sheet doesn't look quite as. Quite as ugly as it is. It did for Vegas when you're actually watching the run of play.
- [14:34]
Shayna Goldman
Yeah, I think the Ducks, the fact that they bounced back after the blown power play opportunities, right, because they have a five on four opportunity. They get the five on three. Might have been the worst five on three I've watched in a minute. It was terrible. And it wasn't terrible because Vegas was pressuring them. It was terrible because it felt like the Ducks were just like searching for this perfect shot. Right? Like, I think the power play went 8 for 16 in round one. And then it comes into round two, and you could just see Vegas pressuring them in shorthanded situations in game one. Like so many regroups, very little time established in the zone. It would be like a minute 10 in before they're actually in formation. And then it just gets broken right up. So to have this 5 on 3 chance and Vegas isn't moving much. And the Ducks aren't. Either they're looking for the perfect shot or when they're moving the puck around, they're not shooting immediately. Like they're waiting. And every time a player is receiving a pass and then just starts looking, it's like, why didn't you just shoot it there? And then the five on four, it goes back to. And now Vegas is just coming up with these like two on one rushes. And you could have seen this game going right in Vegas's favor in that moment. Like Vegas has the momentum, they're more battle tested. And it could be deflating for the Ducks for the power play to burn them so much. But I thought that they were so resilient in this and figured it out. And to be scoring it, even strength especially, it's huge in the series. It's going to be more important than 5 on 5 scoring. Sorry, power play scoring. But to not lose the energy I thought was like such a difference. You really could have seen it going
- [16:01]
Sean Gentili
the other way 100%. That's, especially with a young team too. When you outplay someone so dramatically, but you don't have a multi goal lead to show for it, I think that can be deflating under certain circumstances. And I think maybe that's a sign. You don't want to read too much into it. But I think that's a sign of growth for them. Even from a couple weeks ago. The Edmondson series was one, because the power play period, they were 8 for 16 in that series or whatever. We're seeing tons of volume, tons of shot volume. We're seeing Cutter Gautier playing himself in the right circle and they're constantly looking for him. He's constantly ready to shoot for whatever reason. That's not the way it worked last night, you know, So I, I think the fact that they couldn't just, yeah, hit the, hit the power play button and be like, okay, this is gonna bail us out. This is gonna make up for whatever issues we're having at five on five, whether it's finishing or just controlling play, you know, that's, that's not what they did last night. They want a different type of game and I'm honestly not surprised by it. I, I thought they were, you know, come into the series. I think I, I think I picked them to win in seven. I. That's like me, that's like, you know, that might be. That might be short term bias. Just because I, just because I watched Them up close for as long as it was against Edmonton. But I don't know, man. There's. There's some. There's something there. You know, the. The pace that they play with is. Is pretty wild in the fact. But again, the fact that they won that game for all the reasons that I like, that's not why I picked them necessarily to win the game, to win the series in seven round. They're in seven games. Right. Like, I didn't. I didn't expect necessarily any of the games to. Any of their wins to go that way. And then the fact that they did is, you know, that's a. That's a. That's a pretty serious testament to them. Yeah, this is. This is. This feels like it's going to be a lot. Also, Lucas Dostal was. Lucas Dosha was pretty good. Like, he had been sort of. Sort of whatever against Edmonton. He's 21 saves on 22 attempts. He's got a, you know, goal saved above expected of about 1.5. Like, that's as good as he's. That's as good as he. As he's looked. And that is the big surprise for why they got past Edmonton is that he looked pretty shaky at various points throughout it. Like, you kept waiting for him to have, you know, a game that. A game or two that absolutely killed them. And credit to them, it hasn't happened. And now he looks like, you know, maybe he did back in November and December.
- [18:26]
Shayna Goldman
Yeah. Going to the series, if you were expecting the Ducks to. And I feel like it would have been like, all right, they're gonna win that, like, five, four, five, three game. Like, it's gonna be higher scoring. You're gonna see them be Carter hard a lot because I don't think he's had a great postseason. I think even in Game one, I didn't love how I'm not some goalie expert. Okay. No one understands goalies, because I get it, okay. This is my amateur opinion here, but I thought he looked kind of shaky on some of the saves that he made. And if they were pushing him with more second chances and rebounds, I think we would have seen Anaheim score in Game one and be a little bit more effective. And I didn't love how they were, like, spacing out in the offensive zone for it because I didn't think they were putting themselves in good enough positions for it. And then also overpassing prime scoring opportunities. That didn't happen last night. We're seeing them beat Carter Hart with that really great puck movement and they're moving, you know, crossing passes back and forth. And that was on that Terry and Carlson play to score even strength. But also it just felt like they had a little bit more control and it felt like they were just like, okay, time to pour on the offense because if you're the Ducks, that's, that's your best weapon is your offense in the situation. Especially because, like Utah had one line going right. The Cooley line was incredible and they were beating Vegas with their speed. But it felt like they could have used a little bit more here if the Carlson line and Terry line is clicking at even strength and they're winning their minutes against the Theodore pair. And then the cutter goatee line is going to go up against Hannifan and Anderson. And I thought they looked great in that matchup last night. I think head to head, it's like Gauthier versus Hannifin. It's like 14, nine shot attempts for that line. They have a ton of scoring chances. Now all of a sudden you're going, okay, there's a good one, two punch. Plus, you know, the bottom six can disrupt things a little bit. So definitely a good win for Anaheim. Not the way you would have expected to see it. Even pretty solid defensively. Like, again, things you don't expect to see because usually you watch Ducks, you go, are you gonna outscore your problems? Then let go style, carry the rest. And he can do it.
- [20:18]
Sean Gentili
Yeah, that's, that's, that's not entirely what we saw last night. You know, like, like that's a somewhat out of character win in a, in a positive way for them. So we'll see if it's a springboard. We're gonna keep watching those series. Obviously we got another one to talk about. It is a game I will be attending tonight. We'll do that after the break. Also got some, some big pwh. Stay tuned.
- [20:43]
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- [22:21]
Sean Gentili
Extra.
- [22:22]
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- [22:28]
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- [23:31]
Shayna Goldman
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- [24:06]
Sean Gentili
All right, we're back. Shayna I'm being told it is night 20 of the Stanley cup playoffs. Is that, that's, I don't know if I, I don't know if I thought we were there just yet.
- [24:17]
Shayna Goldman
We might not have thought it like consciously, but look at us.
- [24:20]
Sean Gentili
I think it's been, it's been, it's more, it's like been, it's been like one very long night. A large blob, a large blob of kind of indistinguishable days and nights. Just one tonight it's Carolina versus Philly again. I am, I am in Philly for this one, Shayna. I, I, I'm interested in your take straight off the top. I think, I think conventional wisdom on this is coming into it that it was, that it had the potential to be a short one and I don't know that too much happened in games one and two that suggested otherwise.
- [24:57]
Shayna Goldman
Yeah, I felt like if the Flyers were gonna steal on like game two, they at least looked sharper. After a pretty terrible game one that you're like, okay, maybe this is possible. Could they steal a game on home ice? Maybe. I think it depends on the injury situation at this point because it was always going to be lopsided. But then if they're shorthanded on top of it, it's a killer. But there's just too much going wrong. And listen, the goaltending has been pretty solid. Some of the penalty killing has been pretty good. The Flyers, no one wants to score on the power play in this year and that's okay. And that helps because Flyers power play is bad on a good day, worse against the Canes, but you need more at even strength. And I think you're seeing what that, what the absence of Owen Tippett's doing. Like, I think that's such a huge part. And now no Noah, Kate's injury. But it feels like if they don't get Tippet back, they are truly cooked in for.
- [25:51]
Sean Gentili
I tend to agree with you there. And we'll, you know, I'm heading to skate after this. We'll see what comes out of that. I would imagine we're not going to have a straight answer for Tippett. I would guess that's going to be a game time decision, but it sounds like, you know, maybe he has a chance. He's seem like he's trending upward a bit over the last couple of days. I mean, he's a game breaker. We saw what he, especially early against Pittsburgh, we saw what he can bring when he's right you know, he's got that, he's got that skating burst. There's moments where, like, if you were someone who is just watching hockey for the first time, if you were like, you know, I want to be a hockey fan and what game's on and it's the Philadelphia Fires. There's points in every game where you watch Ellen Tippett and you're like, this is the best hockey player on earth. Like, he pops in that way, right? And he did against Pittsburgh. I think he's got that kind of game breaking ability that's, you know, that you kind of need to break the wall, you know, that the, that the Hurricanes put up sometimes. And I think they've missed that pretty dramatically. Cates is hurt. Me and, me and Kurz were trying to figure out when it happened. Curtis thinks it might happen on. On a block shot, but it sort of, it sort of came out of nowhere. That he's, you know, almost certainly done for this series. Definitely not going to play tonight. That's a big loss, man. He's quality minutes. His defensive work is pretty underrated, I would say, just generally. And he's another player archetype that I think you need to succeed against the Carolina Hurricanes. You need someone out there who can kind of play their style, especially on the bottom six there. And he's not around either. So, yeah, that's a big deal. The bigger issue for me, I think, and I kind of beating this drum in one way, in one way or another. Porter Martone looks gassed and it's fine. He's allowed to be. He's played more hockey this season than he ever has before. He's. He had had to adjust to the NHL. There's reasons for Porter Martone to be tired and, and not producing in the way that we saw from him. But I think it underscores how important his production was to them down the stretch and early in that series against Pittsburgh. Having a guy like that in the lineup completely changes the way everything else works and the way everything else hangs together because we knew that they could lock teams down defensively and we knew they could drag him into the mud. Having a dude that, you know, with the shot volume that he was at down the stretch and also the finishing ability, man, that's a, that. That was a game changer for them. And now with him operating clearly at less than 100%, whether it's exhaustion or whatever, you know, they're looking a little bit more like the Philadelphia Flyers from, you know, February and March. And I think that's a problem.
- [28:26]
Shayna Goldman
Yeah, that's definitely a problem. It's wild. Like, his NHL experience is like. It's like the rookie experience on speed. Like, he comes in hot, he gets all the momentum, here's big minutes. But now he said his rookie wall, and like you said, like, he's played a ton of hockey this year, so that's a huge adjustment for him. Plus, you know, playing against the Canes, there's so much more wear and tear on opponents than there is against playing the Penguins, so that's tough, too. And then there's some injuries because, you know, he didn't play a ton with Tippett, and it hasn't played a ton with Kate, but when they were on the ice together, like, he looked pretty good in their shared time so far this postseason, like, this is a guy who he was excelling because he plays such a poised game, but he also just shoots the puck a ton. He has a really dangerous shot, and if his scoring chance creation is down for any reason, you know he's not going to be nearly as effective. And against the Canes now, you're going to be getting tougher matchups, tougher defending to go head to head against. They're going to swarm and just have. They're going to.
- [29:21]
Sean Gentili
They're going to cut back on the volume whether you're right, whether you're right or not. And that was a big part of what made him successful. You know, like, I still a stat that sticks with me going into the playoffs, you know, yeah, it had only been nine games or 10 games for him, but, you know, just in terms of individual shot generation he was doing over the course of the full season, if he did what. If he did for 82 games what he did for those. For those nine games, he would have been third in the league in terms of individual shots per 60. Like, it would have been Brady, and it would have been Cutter, go Che. And then it would have been Porter Martone. That is wild. And that's. And again, just having any kind of offensive, you know, generation, I think down the stretch was huge for them, and they're not. They're not getting that on the same level. And, you know, they look. They look worse for it on the, on the Carolina end of things. They. They shook up their lines at the end of that. At the end of game two, which was wild because it doesn't happen all that often. And it worked, and it worked out immediately. Seth Jarvis scores, you know, on a. On a pretty sick feed from Ehlers on their first Shift together. I don't know that they're going to stick with that. I think the vibe is that they're maybe going to go back and have, and have Jarvis back with Ajo and Svetchnikov, which is kind of interesting. That's definitely something to watch, something to watch early. But Shay, I like what have you, what have you. Like what are your thoughts from. I, I know you watched that game too. You were, you were watching all of it. What do you, what's the vibe you got from you know, those combinations before the switch happened?
- [30:53]
Shayna Goldman
Well, I think Eelers being on the third line is like it has its pluses and minuses. Right. Because on the plus side he's adding that rush based ability alongside Stall Martin that don't in a foot speed really at this point and they don't play that style anyway and you know it works together really well. And I think against Ottawa the fact that their third line was giving them so many chances in transition, especially when the centers did a pretty good job breaking up their four check of time. So you needed to be able to beat them different ways. Huge weapon to have. You put Jarvis there and now it's like okay, that's a lot of rush based strength that the Canes have on one line. But maybe it's a good thing to get Jarvis going because I don't think he had a great round one. Like I, it wasn't so much like oh, it's the entire line. Like when you would watch Ajo, Svetnikov and Jarvis play together you're like, is Jarvis okay? Like the passing isn't as crip crisp, it's not as effective. So I think that could get him back on track here. I would be curious if that's just like that refreshment like a game to refresh him and then jump back on the top line, see what happens. But if not, the games know they have this bonus combination in their back pocket that they could always lean on and Svetch is good at moving the puck that uses. Okay. You know, he's been become such a good passer too. You have someone like Martin Hook who can just get to the front end of the net and be a pain. Like maybe it could work if they needed to. But I think, I think I'd be more curious to see if like the adjustments gets everyone going and then you go back and see what they bring back to their like original combos.
- [32:15]
Sean Gentili
I think that's, I think that's the argument for it, right, is that you do get Jarvis Going. He looks that. He looked like the weight of the world came off his shortest postgame. Like he was. He was refreshed and rejuvenated and all those, all those cliches that you, that you hear about someone after they score a goal, but, you know, that was him. He looked like. He looked like a new man. Right. So, yeah, maybe. Maybe that's the thought is that you'd bring that energy back to the ajos fetch line and, you know, things take off from there. But it's, it's going to be interesting because they need that. You know, God bless Logan Stankovin and Jackson, Blake and Taylor hall, but like, they're not going to be able to do it themselves every single game. Like, you're going to need quality minutes and quality, you know, true point production from, from the AJO line. Regardless of. Regardless of who gets it. You know, I think it needs to, it needs to come. They can't just be playing teams draws game after game. Like, that's nice, but that's, you know, that's not a recipe for winning 16 games in the playoffs.
- [33:15]
Shayna Goldman
No. And on this, not in this division at this conference. Right. Like, you get through the Metro doing it, it's one thing. Senators, Flyers, that's two defensive powerhouses. Can you do that against whoever comes out of the Atlantic? I don't know.
- [33:26]
Sean Gentili
Well, we're. We're about to find out. Again, game three tonight in Philly. We wanted to touch on some PW expansion. P WHL announced yesterday in Detroit that team number nine is officially in place. That's. It was a pretty, pretty badly kept secret over the last hour, many days. But they, they do have the announcement. The Ilitch family is a partner. That's good. The scheduling issue solved. That was kind of a hurdle for figuring out, you know, how a team in Detroit was going to look. There's going to be a lot of double headers with the Wings, which I think is pretty cool that that's something that worked for them during the PWHL takeover tour. It's ridiculous that there's not another viable spot for that team to play because there's no women's team at the University of Michigan, which is a whole other story. But, you know, it's, it's. It's something, Something worth noting. And there's going to be three more, probably. Shayna, I think that's a fair conclusion to draw. We know from some documents that Haley Salvian got her hand on hands on that the PW could expand by four total for the Upcoming season. It seems like this is based on Haley's reporting. It's in the story on the site. San Jose and Hamilton are the leaders to get two of those other three teams that are up for grabs. I'm wondering what your vibe is on. On. On both of those spots. I think. I think the Bay Area personally is fun and I'm wondering if you agree.
- [34:53]
Shayna Goldman
Yeah, I like that a lot. I feel like San Jose has done a good job of like, maximizing their teams in the area. You have the Barracuda, you have the Sharks, you have a lot of energy and it's such an exciting time in San Jose for hockey in general. So just we saw.
- [35:06]
Sean Gentili
We saw their attendance skyrocket. The season, like, it had been down. Obviously that team stunk. But I think they realize what they have in. In. They realize what they have in Macklin celebrity. Just like their. The support for them during the Joe Thornton and Patrick Marlowe Gloria years was. Was wild. Right? Like, that building was loud and rock in every single night. So I think there's proof of concept there. Just generally that. That building. That building will. Will be full of hockey fans as long as the product's decent.
- [35:32]
Shayna Goldman
Yeah, I feel like it's just like such a great area for sports. I feel like that.
- [35:36]
Sean Gentili
Oh, man. Absolutely.
- [35:37]
Shayna Goldman
You have the west coast balance idea because that'll help each travel for teams like Vancouver and Seattle. It's like a natural rivalry. Honestly, you look at like soccer and sports like that, like those three teams are always going head to head. I think that's just such a fun idea. Hamilton's maybe the most fascinating because I do think there's value to seeing how this works in a city without an NHL team. And in the US I would say maybe Wisconsin's your move, but then you're competing against college teams and I get like, not wanting to do that just yet. So if you're going to try it, you try it in Canada. And Hamilton or Halifax, both probably are the moves there, like one or the other, I should say. So Hamilton, it clicks. It's, you know, passionate hockey cities that would be excited. It feels like that is a really great test market.
- [36:25]
Sean Gentili
Totally. Yeah. Because, you know, I think the Scepters have seen that they draw fans from way, way deep into the. Into the Horseshoe there. So I, I think what. It would make sense if the league looked at that and said, all right, well, if there's people coming this far that are interested in Scepters games, maybe they're probably closer to Hamilton in the first place, right? And then B, Hamilton itself is a, is a great, is a great hockey city. And then see, you know, there is potential to drop people up from, from Buffalo. You know, like, that's, like that's, that'll or whatever the Niagara Falls area. Like, there is, there's an untapped resource to the, to the south there too. So I think Hamilton, you know, is that, does that mean people in Washington and in Pittsburgh and you know, more traditional, more traditional sports markets are going to, are going to be pissed. Yeah. And I, and I get it. But there's also something to be said for it for, for sure. And it's going to be interesting. It does seem like, you know, the leagues, the league said it might be two, it might be three, it might be four, but, you know, I think there's, yeah, there's, there's reasons to connect the dots and think it's. And think it's going to be. For. It's going to be interesting. 12 team P. Dub next. Next year. Good God.
- [37:37]
Shayna Goldman
Yeah. I love that. Yeah. Like you said, Pittsburgh makes sense. Washington makes sense. You can make Denver make sense. There's all these places, you know, we heard Chicago a lot, but it feels like Detroit's going to cover that, you know, general vicinity and probably for the best, better arena situation. But it'll be good too, because, look, like you mentioned the whole idea of like Buffalo fans in that Niagara area, like, you don't want to root for Toronto. I'm sure if you're Buffalo, like, you know, there's weird. You always think about it, like, when we see it with like, relocation and things like that in the NHL or in other sports, like, how do you now go to your nearest division rival who you hate for every other sports city? So the more cities, the better. I'm going to be curious how people root for Detroit. Like, is it going to only be Detroit fans? Like, if you're a Chicago fan right now, who are you rooting for? You probably hate Minnesota. You probably hate Detroit. Like, who would you rather pick? So add these untraditional non NHL cities. I feel like that could, that could open the door to like, different fandom too. Like, everyone's like, you know what? We love Hamilton. This is, this is our vibe.
- [38:35]
Sean Gentili
Seriously, if you're unaffiliated and you're like, I do. Let's, let's go. Let's go with the Hamilton, blah, blah. Let's go. All right, Peter Boss next. He's here to talk Abs Wild and he is coming up after the break. Stick around.
- [38:54]
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- [39:59]
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- [40:23]
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Shayna Goldman
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- [40:55]
Sean Gentili
All right, we're back. We're joined by Pete Ba. He's wearing his Colorado Avalanche beat writer hat again. Peter, hello. Hello. How are we?
- [41:03]
Verizon Advertiser
I am doing well. I'm. I'm out here in Denver. It's a little early, but that's all good. And I'm pumped to be pumped to be traveling for the start of the series. It's been really fun so far.
- [41:14]
Sean Gentili
Absolutely.
- [41:14]
Shayna Goldman
What was the last series you covered for the abs like how. Which, which year was it so well
- [41:20]
Verizon Advertiser
before AVS Kings it would have been 20, 23 Kraken Aves seven game series overturned goal in game seven in the third period. That would have tied it for the Aves and then the Kraken win. Go on and take the Stars to
- [41:37]
Sean Gentili
seven games in the back back when the Kraken were kind of relevant. What a time to be alive. All right, so in, in this series so far, the one you're the one you're watching this year, it's as Wild. Obviously on Minnesota's end goaltending has been an issue. We talked about it a bit on the Wednesday show. You guys have written about it in a couple of different capacities. You and Russo and Joe Jesper Walstedt was in for game one. Let's in nine. Gustafson has a dud in game two on your end. How much of that has been due to the ABs? Are they making those guys look worse? Is it wrong place, wrong time combo combo of the two? What are, what are you seeing on. On the Colorado end of the of the Wilds goaltending problems?
- [42:22]
Verizon Advertiser
Yeah, it's, it's definitely a combination of the two. Right. Like the the Wild, their goalies have not played well. The ABs are also creating very dangerous chances. I think you can look back at last game as an example. I'm not a goalie expert like Jesse Granger would be better at saying like what the goalie should have done in specific spots, who's at faults on which play. But the first goal is Nathan McKinnon and Martin Nature is doing crazy things where they're cutting into the offensive zone at 100 miles an hour and Nature's backhands a shot through traffic that Gustafson probably doesn't see. The second goal is a tic tac toe power play goal that was going to be hard on any goalie. The third goal though is one that you would think he probably should have had. His angle wasn't great. And against the AVs where the wild probably have a pretty low margin for air because of the injuries to Jonas Berdin and Joel Ericksonk as well as the fact that the Aves are are probably just the more complete roster at this point, like you really need to be getting the saves the goalies should make. They can't, they can't be giving you their C game. They need to be giving you their B plus or A game. And so far that hasn't been the case this series.
- [43:37]
Shayna Goldman
So while obviously you're dealing with Key injuries, no Eric's neck, no Brodine. But feels like the Brody one's opening the door to some problems for Minnesota. It means Middleton's up in the top, forward Spurgeon, there's a Petrie Pagosian third pair. Like, how much of a problem do you think those, those bottom four defensemen are for Minnesota? So far?
- [43:58]
Verizon Advertiser
It's been a huge issue and I wrote about it the other day. It also has a trickle down effect of Quinn Hughes. Brock Faber are now playing so many more minutes than Kale McCar and Devon Toews. So McCarr and Toews are a little bit fresher every time they take the ice because they haven't played as much this series and you're seeing the abs are kind of taking advantage of the, the amount Quinn is playing not in the. I mean, he's obviously amazing and they're not doing as well when he's on the ice, but they're, they're hitting him a lot. Like he's, he's kind of, he's put some. There's been a lot of miles that he's had to, had to drive this series already. And the type of kind of. He. He's having to take more defensive zone starts because they aren't trusting Middleton and Spurgeon, which is really the pair. That second pair is really the pair that they need to be able to trust, but they haven't trusted Middleton and Spurgeon. So Hughes and Bolt and Faber are starting more in the defensive zone than they would otherwise. Which means they're not playing in the situations where like, you want Quinn Hughes starting in the offensive zone, creating offense, doing what he does best. But they're having him to rely on him for everything. And I think it's a major storyline in this series. And the Ericsson Ek injury is massive too. I mean, this is a series where the Aves already had the edge in terms of center depth because they can go McKinnon, Nelson, Kadri, Drury, they can move Nick Waugh over if they need it. And now the Wild are down not only their top offensive center or one of their top offensive centers, but a defensively really sound player. And when you're down your best defensive forward and best defensive defenseman, it's a bad recipe against that.
- [45:45]
Sean Gentili
Yeah, I think that kind of dovetails into my next question. You know, we know Matt Bowley's a difference maker. Dallas certainly knows that he's a difference maker. He's got one assist in the series, so this is, this is Colorado holding him in check. How is that work for them? What have you seen on that end of things? Why are they, why are they, you know, limiting the work he's, he's doing so effectively?
- [46:09]
Verizon Advertiser
This was Boldy specifically?
- [46:11]
Sean Gentili
Yeah.
- [46:12]
Verizon Advertiser
Yeah. Well, Joe Smith just, just wrote about this today and I think some of it is there. Jared Bednar talked about this. If he is like, well, they're down. Joel Erickson act like that hurts their forward group, that hurt in terms of offensive production. So someone like Matt Boldy is not playing with the center that he normally would. Would be playing with. I think that they've played baldy pretty tight. I think that he also maybe has just not been as sharp as, as he normally is. And I think that that could be from pressing. That could be because it's a two game sample size. Matt Boldy is going to get his looks. Like I have no doubt that back in Minnesota he's going to get some chances and be able to do some things and make life a little bit difficult on the Avalanche at points. But you're right, like they've, they've played him physical, they've played him tight. And I think that it's, it's going to be there. Like, I mean, look, if Minnesota is going to win this series, they're going to need the Baldies, the Caprizovs, they're going to need those guys to be really special and we'll see if they can turn it around in Minnesota. But, but right now the Avalanche have, I mean, game one was a total like crazy chaotic, like so many goals everywhere. But in game two, I thought that those guys were, were held in check for the most part. And the Wild power play hasn't been able to score all that much. Though it did have a really good looking first power play of last game.
- [47:39]
Shayna Goldman
You mentioned the power play. That's a problem for the apps somehow. Two seasons of issues, two different coaches, different personnel. It's clicking now. Do you think it's just a really shorthanded penalty kill that already like at full strength, that penalty kill was struggling against Dallas. Here it is now you're without Brodine. Is it. How much of it do you think is the Wilds penalty kill just not being where it needs to be or the ABs have finally figured it out on the power play?
- [48:04]
Verizon Advertiser
I think it's a mix of the two. They were, they had kind of started to figure out the power play in the latter half of the regular season after the Olympic break. If you look, their numbers were a lot better and they were certainly not at the top of the league, but they. If you sort it from the Olympic break on, it was probably more middle tier. And I think they had a really good start after the Olympic break and, and then Kadri got hurt and it maybe went down again against the Kings. It was so, so I didn't think it was great, but they had some looks and they finally scored in game four. So I think it was generally trending in the right direction entering this series. And then when you're facing a shorthanded penalty kill that was already struggling, it, it makes things a lot, a lot easier. I mean, that power play looked really dangerous in, in game two. It scored twice. It had some other really good looks. And then I thought the fifth power play that they got, they kind of were being a little cautious because it was so late in the game and they were up three goals and didn't want to get too cute with anything. So the, the. I wrote going into the series like five on five, this was going to be a really tough series for the Wild. But the power play and like winning the special teams battle was going to be massive because of it. And so far Colorado has dominated in, in both regards. The Wild do have a shorthanded goal, but the ABs have, I think three power play goals plus another one that happened right after the time expired. And then they, they haven't allowed the Wild much on the, on the penalty go.
- [49:37]
Sean Gentili
We need to talk about Scott Wedgwood. He's. He's a guy you wrote about today. Great story, of course, up on the site 60 with a.923 save percentage in the playoffs thus far. What is it about him that's working for the, for the, for the abs because, you know, he's a guy who we saw split time with Mackenzie Blackwood to some degree. But you know, I, he's. He's been, he's been really, really solid for them really throughout the year.
- [50:04]
Verizon Advertiser
Yeah, he's doing. That story was interesting because, I mean, you don't see this is his first. He's 33 years old and this is the first season in his career where he started more than half of his team's games and he leads the league in save percent. He led the league insane percentage in the regular season. His underlying numbers were pretty good. Obviously he benefited a lot from playing behind a great defensive team and a team that was going to win him some games, but he's been someone. I didn't use this in the story, but Alex Nadelkovich told who's Close friends with Scott Wedgwood. He mentioned in the story that he's like it's, it's not just that the abs are so awesome in front of him and he isn't holding his own. He makes a few big saves every game. That kind of keeps them in game sometimes and then they can take off and win games 4, 1, 5 1. And I think this series in particular the bounce back from game one was really impressive because he wasn't very good in game one and then in game two I thought he was really solid and I thought it was the right, I mean clearly it was the right decision by Bednar to stick with him rather than doing what Minnesota did and switching goalies. And Blackwood is ready and I would guess at some point he will play during this playoff run. But he. Bednar stuck with Wedgwood and Wedgwood kind of rewarded his trust and was really steady, calm and had a, I thought a really solid game to the Wild generated some chances as that game went and, and he kind of always kept them arm's length away from being able to really get back into the game.
- [51:37]
Sean Gentili
It'll be interesting, man. And he's another reason to watch. You know, people thought that it's funny, it looked like Blackwood was the long term kind of permanent answer there for stretches since they acquired it from San Jose. And then you know, it's not quite the way, it's not quite the way it's worked out and you've had a, you got a great, a great story and man, I remember when he was in junior he had like, he had like some kind of crazy 70 save game. I remember and that was the first, first time I ever heard his name and it was 15 years ago and I, it's been, it's been funny to watch him kick around and you know, I've kind of a star turn now. It's cool stuff. That's what the playoffs are about.
- [52:10]
Verizon Advertiser
It is cool. And Blackwood like to his credit Black. It's not like Blackwood's been bad. Like yeah, he's been want the ABs paid to acquire him. He's been worth Alexander Georgiev and a second round pick or third round pick or whatever. It was like he's. He had a.904 save percentage this year in a year where the save percentages were low.
- [52:28]
Sean Gentili
So 896 or whatever it was.
- [52:30]
Verizon Advertiser
Yeah, yeah. He's been in above average goalie and I, I don't know. I, I still kind of like wonder of. I think the ABs in the regular season next year are going to be content again to just let them split time because they're both, they're both solid enough. But yeah, it's been a big, it's been a big difference watching, going from watching New York Rangers hockey mostly to watching, watching the Avalanche.
- [52:54]
Sean Gentili
You're gonna get, you're gonna get different leagues. You're gonna get the bends from surfacing off like that quickly, brother. Yeah. All right, man. Enjoy the next couple days. You get a three day break. That series resumes on Saturday. Back in mini. Enjoy, travel safe and I'm sure we'll talk to you soon at some point.
- [53:13]
Verizon Advertiser
Sounds great. Thank you guys.
- [53:14]
Sean Gentili
Thank you, Pete. Thank you, Shayna. Thank you fine folks for listening to the Athletic Hockey Show. The Prospect series is back tomorrow. Enjoy the game tonight. Again, it's just one. It's Carolina Philly. Thank you for watching. Thank you for listening. We'll catch you again real soon.
- [53:34]
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