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This is the Athletic Hockey Show.

Sean McIndoo (3:16)

What up? What up? I think that's what we say to start the Athletic Hockey Show Wednesday edition. I am not Sean Gentile. Sean's off this week, so it's me, Sean McIndoo, pulling hosting duty. And in order, like any great team, for us, it's. Somebody's not there. It's next Sean up. And the closest we could find to the next Sean was. Shayna Goleman joins us. Hello, Shayna.

Shayna Goleman (3:45)

Hi. Yeah, I'm Sean. Today it's an honor. Usually I'm boy Dom, a girl Dom, but today I'm Sean.

Sean McIndoo (3:51)

If you.

Frankie Corrado (3:52)

If you really want to be Sean, you have to have some kind of meltdown before the show about some kind of technical issue, and then really get wound up and then take a deep breath. What up? What up? Welcome to the Athletic Hockey Show.

Sean McIndoo (4:07)

That's it.

Frankie Corrado (4:08)

That's usually how it starts.

Sean McIndoo (4:10)

That is every pre show. And. And just at random points in the show, if you could just drop, like, random Pittsburgh references that nobody else gets, that would be fantastic. And you heard the voice of Frankie Corrado there. Frankie's back. How are you, Frank?

Frankie Corrado (4:26)

I'm good, buddy. Yeah. Nice to be back with everyone. Got a lot going on and it won't stop snowing. It's cold. It feels like we're in Siberia here in Toronto. I hate it and just can't wait for some better weather, buddy. Well, wish I had something more creative to say than that.

Sean McIndoo (4:42)

Pretty. Pretty soon we won't be in Siberia. We will be in Italy for the Olympics. And, Frankie, we got to talk about Team Italy and your Team Italy roster. How's that going over in the hockey world?

Frankie Corrado (5:01)

Yeah, I just got back from the consulate, actually. We were having a little meeting. Me, Lou, Mike Pekka, Mike Ricci, Jack Kapw, Piero Greco. That's our staff. That's what we're going with. And then I compiled a team. Basically, if you have Italian heritage, or if I think you have Italian heritage.

Sean McIndoo (5:20)

If your name ends in a vowel, you're on the team. Yeah.

Frankie Corrado (5:23)

Yeah. Apparently, Shane Pinto might actually be Portuguese, but I've selected him for Team Italy, so we'll see how that sort of shakes.

Sean McIndoo (5:31)

Somebody was trying to put Macklin Celebrini on the team. Is that.

Frankie Corrado (5:34)

Well, I. I put one together initially in, like, five minutes, and then I realized, wait, I have Sorelli on the team, and I had Zuccarello. Team Zuccarello's of course, going to play for Norway. Sorelli playing for Team Canada. But then I went back with the brass at the consulate, and here's what we got. You want my lines and pairings? Absolutely.

Shayna Goleman (5:51)

Yep.

Frankie Corrado (5:52)

All right. Manjapani, Pinto, Velardi, Bertuzzi, Fentilli, Amadio, Vetrano, Donato, Fabbri, Sonny Milano, Valeno Mantha. The Foligno brothers, and Kyle Palmieri. This is not in any particular order, by the way. And then on the back end, Ferraro and Pesci. Fabro and Carlo. Demelo and Marino. And d' Angelo and D. Simone. And then Annette, Sebastian Cosa, Damian Clara, who's actually on the team. He's actually Italian. And Mikey DiPietro. There's our squad. If we could do it that way, the heritage squad.

Sean McIndoo (6:31)

That's a metal team right there. And. And if. If the goaltending doesn't work, I feel like at some point the lights would dim, the music would hit, and Roberto Wango skates out wearing the gold medal from 2010 and takes over.

Shayna Goleman (6:47)

So that's perfect.

Sean McIndoo (6:48)

All right. And I, I. We gotta talk snubs. I gotta mention one name I didn't hear on that roster was Frankie Corrado. Where's. You don't have the game legs. Like, what's. What's going on?

Frankie Corrado (7:02)

You know who I forgot? Shane. I felt so bad about this. I forgot Matt Coronado. Like, how could you have him like that? Matt Scorinato. And I don't have him on my team. What. What am I doing? How do I. I forgot about it, so. I did feel bad about that.

Shayna Goleman (7:17)

Well, it's okay. It could be an extra forward. There's. You know, there's been so many injuries this season that I feel like even this Italian team, if we're going to be realistic, and it feels like we are. Right, because you took out players on other rosters, you added an actual Italian goalie, you blurred the lines a little bit on players nationalities. That's okay because we are team. Shane Pinto making an Olympic. Olympic squad. He should be on Team usa. So I think having snubs to debate and a potential injury replacement just made this team real.

Sean McIndoo (7:46)

Yeah.

Frankie Corrado (7:46)

I don't disagree and think. I mean, speaking about players that should be on Team usa, did Cole Caufield have a night last night? Did he do it or what? Oh, my goodness. What did we think about that performance?

Sean McIndoo (8:00)

Cole Caulfield, nightmare duel right from Team usa, and he gets a chance in front of Bill. I'm assuming Bill Garon was in the building, but certainly Bill Garrett's team made a, made a bit of a statement scoring with 13 seconds left, something like that gets the winner. Lane Hudson has a good game as well. Another snub is Bill Garon now rethinking Team usa? Well, of course not.

Frankie Corrado (8:33)

I don't think yet. Not yet. But if you lose, if you lose by a goal, you have to be. Answer me this. Okay, here's today's trivia question. Over the last three years in the National Hockey League, who's got the most game winning goals? Give you a hint. He had one last night.

Shayna Goleman (8:51)

It's our favorite short king. Come on.

Frankie Corrado (8:53)

It's Cole Caufield.

Shayna Goleman (8:55)

It's ridiculous to me like that he didn't make the team. I can't stress it enough. Like, I would have had him on there. I get it. He's short. Okay, can we get past? Everyone's like, you can't have a short. Yeah, exactly. Everyone's like, you can't have a short player like that on Team usa. If you want to say you can't have two short kings, I'll have the conversation with you. It comes down to DeBrincat or Caulfield, but like him scoring goals. I think we talked more about Jason Robertson's level of petty because it's like Central Division potential round one playoff battles. But Cole Caufield going, no, no, we're going to start that party early. That when Bill Guerin is home at the end of February with the silver bronze medal, if he's lucky, right at this point, when he goes to sleep at night, he needs to close his eyes and all of a sudden that goal like, replays through his head with like Celine Dion backdropping it. That's what needs to happen for him to not make that mistake again. But I, I fear it's, you know, no one's learning from this. No one's, no one's changing their tune. They're like, no, no, we're good with our roster as mid as it may be.

Frankie Corrado (9:48)

Well, and I guess we, we always talk about these big moments, whether it's the playoffs and we haven't really had best on best other than the four nations, but that was a big moment. And we talk about the clutch gene and how do you quantify that? And for me, the best way to quantify it is you score game winning goals. Do you score goals to tie up games late in games? Do you score overtime goals? Like those are the big moments in games. And sometimes with the, the nature of where your team is, right, like you, you're not in the playoffs every year. Montreal got there for the first time in a long time last year. But from what you can tell, Caulfield does have that clutch gene. No one scored more game winning goals in the last three years than him. And last night it felt like a little bit of poetic justice because it was against Minnesota. It's Bill Garon's team and the player who he gets away from in the coverage is Brock Faber. And Quinn Hughes is on the ice as well. So you got away from two of the, you know, top defensemen for usa. When you score that goal, that's like the cherry on top. That's the little extra hanging on the rim on the slam dunk of that goal by Caulfield. And then to add to it, the Montreal Canadiens Twitter account just tags USA Hockey and just throws that thing out there and just lets it burn on Twitter for everyone to see.

Sean McIndoo (11:09)

That was excellent. I got to say, as far as NHL team Twitter accounts, that may be the best tweet of the year. Apologies to all the hardworking social media people who are constantly making players do, like, cute little trends or answer questions off a whiteboard as they go on the practice ice. But that simple one word, one tag, I think that got the message out there. And. Yeah. Do you think Cole. Do you think we're going to get like, the Phil Kessel tweet from Cole Caufield at any point? Something I should.

Frankie Corrado (11:47)

No way. He's not that kind of guy. He's not. He's. He's a really, like, personable, like, not that Phil isn't, but, like, he's just. He's just so smiley and happy and I don't think he wants to. I don't think he would want to do anything to, to rub it in anyone's face or draw any kind of negative attention to himself. He is. He's a. He's a. He's a really interesting guy to be around in morning skates and stuff. Like, he's always beaming. He's just. It doesn't seem like he's the kind of guy that'll do that. Phil, on the other hand. Yeah, Phil would.

Sean McIndoo (12:17)

But I got to say, we didn't think Phil had that in him either. Not. Not the, not the bitterness, but the sense of humor. Everybody was. It's like, you know when the one quiet kid cracks a joke in class and you're like, where did that come from?

Frankie Corrado (12:32)

Yeah, it. The teammates would know. Like, teammates would know all about the, the. The stories of Phil. Like the, The Best one from. I played with him briefly in Pittsburgh, but all the guys in Toronto loved saying this one. Like there would be first shift of the game, go out there, get the puck on the wing, fly down the wing, take a shot on net, come back to the bench and look at his line mates, which was usually like Bozie and jvr, right? Like that was the line for a long time. And just look at them and say, I don't got it tonight. You guys are going to have to do it. I just don't got it. It's one shift. I don't got it.

Shayna Goleman (13:10)

He has just like the perfect dry humor, though, that the situation called for. And it's like, I wish we saw more of that from players, but if not, at least Montreal, like the Montreal, the account, the being the entity, you know, they took care of it here with like the perfect pettiness that the individual is never going to bring to the table. And like this year we're seeing teams up their game with social media like Buffalo taking the heated rivalry joke of like, them actually being good. You know, that's really nice. That's wonderful. Loved it for them. But Montreal, I think, handled it and let let you know, the one tweet, the one at do the talking enough year that Caulfield doesn't have to. It's going to be interesting to see what happens if USA does when USA falls short because it's also like, this is not an American team. So there are even more ways to make jokes about this, you know, later on this year. So I hope, I hope that the teams can keep bringing it so the players don't have to.

Sean McIndoo (14:03)

Yeah, shout out to the Carolina Hurricanes who took the Canadians behind the woodshed on the whole offer sheet thing a few years ago. That might be the villain origin story we look back on, right, of the Montreal Canadiens turning into this.

Frankie Corrado (14:20)

And to your point there, Shayna, you know, we're going to talk about, was it a mistake to leave Caulfield off, right. If there's no injury replacement, is it a mistake to leave Bennett off? Like all these different scenarios. Mistake to leave Hyman off. It's only a mistake if you lose. If you win, you pick the right team, like, no one will fault you. But if and when you lose, that's when we'll have all those conversations. But one, one note on Caulfield, okay. As far as, like, how he does it and why he's so effective this way. And you brought it up earlier, Shane, about like him being smaller in stature. Well, he uses that to his advantage. It doesn't take him much to turn on a puck and to release a puck and it catches people by surprise. And so you can kind of put it into an area and that area it feels like it's a bigger wheelhouse because it's just this short little turn. It's like if you watched baseball and you watched the Blue Jays run to the World Series and you watched Alejandro Kirk, it's a quick little turn on him. He's not this long rangy guy, which takes more, more motion and more time. And Caulfield's the same way. And so that's what makes his release so difficult to track at times. And so now you think about it. Well, there's not much room on the ice, there's not much time out there. But if you put it anywhere near the guy, he can snap it like pretty quickly. And sometimes a guy that's a little longer with a little more range, you just by the time he gets it off, goaltender can track and can see it. That's Caulfield's advantage. And so when you know it's going to be tight, like it's not going to be much room at the Olympics. That's the micro of and that's the technical aspect that you're, you're leaving off your team with not bringing Caulfield there.

Sean McIndoo (16:08)

I'm now picturing an Alejandro Kirk sized hockey player just bowling ball his way around there. That guy would be Olympic to.

Frankie Corrado (16:17)

That's a four checker.

Shayna Goleman (16:19)

Yeah, that's all they want on Team usa. But no like that. That's a really important technical aspect and I want to add to it too. Like it's not like this is someone who isn't used to going up against the best and I get it. It's not best on best. No matter what at the NHL level. He's not going up against super teams like Team Canada's defense, which is who we're constantly going to measure USA against. But this is someone who does, you know, play in matchup minutes. It's, it's a consequence of playing with Nick Suzuki. You're going to go head to head with the opponent's best on a nightly basis and he's pulling it off in those minutes. And to me that says, okay, like maybe you do have the chops to play for Team usa, maybe you do not. First line capacity obviously, because there's going to be, I mean the winger depth would be stronger if you had Jason Robertson at the top. But even still, probably not top six but say third line role, like, you can play that and you know, you have. You have the skill set to make these moves against the NHL's best still. So.

Sean McIndoo (17:10)

Well.

Frankie Corrado (17:10)

And. And by the way, while we're talking about Caulfield, Jason Robertson scored twice last night, and I believe he's at 29 goals now. I think that's also pretty good. So I think Dallas fans would be. They would be upset if we didn't at least bring that up when we're talking about wingers who are scoring a ton who didn't make Team usa.

Sean McIndoo (17:30)

All right, so we're. We're second guessing Bill Garon's mistakes. There was a very obvious mistake last night. It wasn't Cole Caulfield, although it did involve Lane Hudson. He gets a penalty on what can only be described as a phantom trip. I don't. Which. Who was the wild player, you guys?

Frankie Corrado (17:53)

It was Felino. It was Marcus.

Sean McIndoo (17:55)

So Felino's backing up and he just. He trips over the blue line. Just one of those. One of those things that happens sometimes.

Frankie Corrado (18:02)

Sniper in the stands got somebody.

Sean McIndoo (18:04)

Got him. And Hudson happens to be the closest player, and he gets two minutes for tripping. Now it's. If you go and look at the replay, if you look at where the referee is, you can see how this happens because he is the. The Hudson is right between the referee and Foligno. So maybe it looks like he got the stick back there, but. But he didn't. It's a. It's. It's not a penalty. It's a phantom trip. The referee even went over and apologized to Hudson after. What do we think about this? Is this just one of those things where, yeah, mistakes happen? Or as. As some people I've seen on social media, are we looking at this saying there's got to be a better way to make sure this doesn't happen? I want to hear. I have my opinion. I want to hear. I want to hear from both of you, though, okay?

Frankie Corrado (18:53)

Here's. Here's my thought on this. Okay? And first of all, that was. That was Eric Furlatt, who's a veteran ref. Guy's done 1500 games in the league. He made a mistake. He obviously apologized. It never should have been a call. But I don't think this is something where you need to necessarily have another video review, but there should be some kind of verbiage along the lines of, bottom line, we get the call. Right. And if that means you have to have a little bit of a conference with the linesman who will have Some input or the other official who have, who would have some input. It's, it's not the first time there's ever been a call that has been made that has been rescinded after a little bit of a conference. So I think that's where the, the crew, the officiating crew has to get together and say, okay, I get it, you made the call, you made a mistake. We're not trying to show you up, but bottom line is we have to get this call right. And that's what should have taken place last night. And if all four of them missed it, well, that's crazy because referees get paid a lot of money and I get things happen quickly on the ice before. People should not have missed that call last night.

Shayna Goleman (20:04)

Yep, that's a very, very reasonable take. Like I understand there's always going to be a human element to this because referees, they're humans and that's what the NHL wants. Right? Like that's why there's gray area in a lot of ways because they want it that every official has a little bit of a range of interpretation on every rule. But that's just, you know, a blatant miss and say that happens in the playoffs, say it leads to, you know, a game winning goal, like that's the moment you're constantly going to look at. So. Well, I agree. Every minor penalty should not have video review. Right. Like we would be there forever. I think that it's reserved for things to the higher degree, you know, double minors and, and major penalties here. It feels like the officials on the eyes could have quickly done that or it's another reason to have an eye in the sky. It's not the reason. Right. I think that we've seen stronger cases for other penalties. Just have that extra set of eyes that is connected by a headpiece. Not to, you know, anyone in the booth, but to the officials on the ice that you could quickly, in a non distracting way be like hang on, hang on, that's not it. Or you know, you could chime in somehow with egregious misses as well. I think it could help out to have just a different perspective. Like an actual on ice official who just happens to have a different vantage point and instant replays and it's not like they have the time in that position. You could say no replays to honestly. But you know, to sit there and review tape, you don't have 30 seconds every time a potential penalty is or isn't called. It just won't work that way. But just have someone Else from above be like, hey, actually, no. It's the same amount of time, I would assume, as it would take, maybe even less to have that conference of pushing a button, calling down, being like, wait, wait. This is what I saw from this perspective.

Sean McIndoo (21:45)

Here's. Here's where I'm at on this. I like Frankie's idea. It reminds me of the NFL, where it's not rare to see a flag get thrown. The officials huddle up and they pick up the flag, right? And the. And the referee just go out and say, there's no foul on the play. Because somebody, you know, they talk and somebody says, I saw this. Or, you know, in the case of last night, the referee down in the offensive zone skates over and says, hey, man, I know you were blocked. I know from your angle, it looked like there was contact. There wasn't. And you make it. No penalty. The. The thing that I worry about is another idea from the NFL, which is. Is a relatively recent thing. This idea of the expedited review where there's no challenge. There's nothing like that. Somebody just gets on the. On the earpiece to the NFL official and says, you guys missed this. This is. This was not a. This was not a foul. This is what you missed. And. And they. Very often it's. By the time the first replay is done, it's very quick. They just get on and they announce, expedite a review. We've changed the call. I feel like it works okay in the NFL. I don't love the idea for the NHL. And all I'll say is this. There's a saying in the legal world that says hard cases make bad laws. I think there's a follow on that should apply to sports, maybe, but definitely the NHL, definitely hockey, that says easy cases make bad rules. And last night, this was an easy one. There's not a single. You could be the biggest Minnesota Wild homer out there. You don't look at that and say, yeah, that's a penalty. We all agree 100%. And that's what makes it dangerous. Because the classic example of this is Matt Duchenne being offside by 10ft feed. Everybody looked at that and said, that's so obvious. That's such an easy call. How did they miss it? What if that happens in Game 7 of the Stanley Cup? What if that happens in overtime of a playoff game? Surely we need a system so we can get it right. And we got instant replay review for offsides out of that eventually. And in 10 years, we have not had a single other Matt duchenne, offside by 10ft case. Instead, we've had nothing but hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of goals coming off the board based on a fraction of an inch. Stuff that nobody noticed in real time because we made the rule based on the easy case, the guy being offside by 10ft. And then we found out that, oh, right. There isn't actually a way to say we're going to have this sort of review, but only for the easy stuff, because where do you draw the line if this call is easy? What about the one that's just a little more great? Do we do that one, too? And that. And it just ends up. I can see a world where we do expedited review for penalties, where if it's obviously the wrong call, somebody. An eye in the sky, whoever gets on goes in the referee's earpiece and says, that wasn't a penalty. Guess what? Now every single call that happens in an NHL game, we're all waiting around for the expedited.

Frankie Corrado (24:46)

It's too much.

Sean McIndoo (24:46)

It's.

Frankie Corrado (24:47)

It's. It's going to be too much because hooking. Oh, your stick was horizontal, or, oh, that was actually boarding. Like, we. We can't get into that. There's no way, something as egregious as last night, there's no way four guys should be able to miss that. I'm sorry. There needs to be some kind of conference. And as far as all the officials in that game, there's a lot of experience, right? Like Eric Furlatt, veteran guy, 1500 games. His partner, Brandon Bland. Brandon Blandina, almost 300 games, right? Like, and then the linesman, one's at 670 and one's at 1800. So, I mean, it's not like those were guys calling their. In their first season, calling their first games. There's a lot of experience there between the four guys. They're just. There has to be some kind of, like, understanding. Maybe it's a memo between the league and all the teams that, like, we're going to call it. But if it's egregious and if it's a miss, like a really bad miss, or it's a phantom, bottom line, we can get the call, right? And that's all that needs to be understood by teams.

Sean McIndoo (25:52)

Huddle up. No replay, though. Yes. No replay to this.

Frankie Corrado (25:56)

No replay.

Sean McIndoo (25:57)

Unintended consequences. By the way, did you say Blandini for the.

Frankie Corrado (26:00)

The other official, Blandina? He could be on my team.

Sean McIndoo (26:04)

Sounds like we got picks. We've got our linesman for the team, at least for the. For the scrimmages. We've got that. All right, great. We will be back in a little bit for segment two. All right, we're back. Before we get back to the show, you listen to us now. We want to hear from you. We are asking you to fill out a quick survey about you and your podcast habits by going to theathletic.com survey26. Three lucky entries will win a $100Amazon gift card. So whether you're a longtime listener or a brand new one, we want your feedback. Go to theathletic.com survey26. That's theathletic.com survey 26. The link is also in our episode description. Fill that out. You'll be helping us out a lot. All right, guys, we made it 20, 25 minutes into the show. We haven't talked about it yet. It's about 36 hours old by this point. We had a goalie fight. Greatest thing or better than greatest thing?

Frankie Corrado (27:15)

The best. The best, man, because goalies are. They're lunatics. They're all nuts in their own ways. It's not like there's. They're not always snap shows, but sometimes they're snap shows. And then once those wires cross and you see them lose their minds, which I've seen countless times probably because, like, I have been in the way. Screening them or turning.

Sean McIndoo (27:41)

Yeah, I've seen so many goalies lose their mind.

Frankie Corrado (27:44)

And then you just hear the loud, like. Like, you know what word they're saying when the puck goes in and then the stare down, you could feel it right through the back of your name bar. But then once their wires cross, it's almost like there's no going back, man. And then when the two of them get into the fight, like, I thought that was awesome. And Bob, like, don't you think Bob's tired? Guys played a ton of hockey. And then he's the one flying down the ice saying, we're going. That was wild.

Sean McIndoo (28:12)

But that was the camera view from the other end of him going down the ice. Amazing cinema.

Frankie Corrado (28:19)

Yeah, it absolutely was. It absolutely was. And listen, like, if. If. If you didn't love Bob already, like, okay, you love Bob like, the teammates obviously love Bob in Florida, but how much more do they love him? Guy just delivered two Stanley Cups to you. It's one of the best goalies in the league. Now he's going down there like a lunatic, fighting. And if you're Nadelkovich, you're like, I'll get some. I get some Cachet out of this, you know, with. With my teammates and around the league. That's. That's not a bad thing to have on your resume. That was. I love that. No one, I don't know who said it, but, like, no one was leaving their seats after that fight. That was pretty entertaining.

Sean McIndoo (28:56)

And look, it's like you. You can have your feelings about fighting in hockey goalies. I'm not going to say nobody ever gets hurt in a hockey fight with. When it's goalies because, you know, Rick Dietro might argue with me on that one, but you're. These guys are wearing sumo gear. They don't know what they're doing. They can barely keep their balance. It's. It's like watching two, like koala bear cubs wrestle each other. It's the best. And it was the first time since 2020. First time since the Mike Smith camp Talbot, which is a long time. This used to be something that happened every couple of years. Shayna, how do we get goalie fights back in the NHL?

Shayna Goleman (29:41)

If we had them all the time, I don't think we'd appreciate them as much. Okay. We need the officials to not break things up when a goalie skating to center eyes trying to make this happen. Because it gets a moment like this and, you know, sometimes you see fights develop and it's like this quick snap, you know, snap second thing where a player literally turns their body and it's like, oh, you're fighting now. You don't even have a minute to think. If you're a goaltender and you are choosing to engage in this fight, you have to skate usually across the damn ice. So if you so choose to do it, like, let them cook. And I think it maybe the perspective would have been a little bit different if it's, you know, the Panthers are up four to one and this vibey team, the Sharks, is trying to disrupt things even more. And it's Nadelkovich getting crosscase. No, no, it is back to back. Stanley cup champ Sergei Bobrovsky, who is not having a great game, is not having a great season being like, you know what I am in. In this moment, you have to let it happen. So I think we need it that these happen, you know, like maybe once a year, right? Like a goalie goal. You get it. Like once a year, you're gonna get excited about it. It's a rare.

Sean McIndoo (30:42)

And you nailed the key thing, which is these officials. Okay, I defended the officials in the first one for missing an obvious penalty. Whatever that. Who cares? But we've Got to send a memo out to the officials saying stop it with this. Breaking up goalie fights. Because how many times have we seen it? There's like a five on five line brawl. Guys are just getting pummeled. It's just absolute chaos. And. And a goalie will skate like three feet out of his crease and like all four officials just rush him like. No, they form a little human wall. No, no. We can't possibly have the one thing that everybody in this arena wants to see. I don't know how Bobrovsky got all the way down there because it was like. It was a long skate. I don't. He must have like crouched slightly or did whatever the. You know. However you activate stealth mode in the goalie world because they. There were four officials going, it must have been the wind. And then suddenly he was just right there throwing haymakers. It was good scrap too.

Frankie Corrado (31:35)

It kind of. It kind of reminded me of the old meme of it's like WWE Raw or SmackDown, but that one ref who comes around the corner and then he's just running into the ring down the ramp full speed. Like that's exactly what it looked like. Except it was Bobrovsky going down there to fight dgb. Let me ask you this, buddy. You like goalie fights? You like when goalies snap and lose their minds. So you like Jordan Bennington.

Shayna Goleman (32:04)

Because he's your Olympic goalie. Get ready for it.

Sean McIndoo (32:07)

Hold up just a second.

Frankie Corrado (32:09)

My guy. Jordan.

Sean McIndoo (32:10)

I mean, if Jordan. Look, we all saw the three fights in nine seconds. Last time Canada in usa. How about Jordan Binnington right off the opening face off just right down the ice, take out Connor Halibut. That's probably a suspension.

Frankie Corrado (32:23)

Okay.

Sean McIndoo (32:24)

You know, if we can get Hellebuck end.

Shayna Goleman (32:26)

That's a win. Win for you.

Sean McIndoo (32:27)

Like that works.

Frankie Corrado (32:29)

Yeah.

Shayna Goleman (32:29)

You know what the difference is though? Like Bobrovsky and the dog. But these are not goalies who are like constantly stirring up things. Pennington is constantly stirring up things with no repercussions. And I'm not never had a fight. He needs to fight constantly.

Sean McIndoo (32:41)

Never had.

Shayna Goleman (32:41)

Exactly.

Sean McIndoo (32:41)

If you're not a major, if you're.

Shayna Goleman (32:43)

Going to create issues, you should be fight. Like I. I think we'd all have a little more respect for him if we knew that was going to turn into something. Instead of him just having big loser energy and then allowing a bunch of goals again. Like I needed that. I need more like there's a way to earn my respect. He just hasn't done it.

Sean McIndoo (32:59)

What? What is. Because there Is a, There's a right answer on this. But. But you, you two kids might be too young for it. What was the most disappointing non goalie fight of all time as far as either guys who didn't fight or guys who, you know, didn't tried and got taken out by the officials. Do you have any nominees?

Frankie Corrado (33:20)

Cujo and Mick Magoo.

Sean McIndoo (33:24)

It was, who was the.

Frankie Corrado (33:25)

It was Mick Magoo, right?

Sean McIndoo (33:26)

Yeah.

Frankie Corrado (33:27)

Cujo goes flying in and then he loses an edge and he takes down Mick Magoo and is, is he go. Is he no bucket referee at the time? He might have been no bucket. Well, hold on.

Sean McIndoo (33:36)

Did Curtis Joseph lose an edge or did he sweep the leg?

Frankie Corrado (33:40)

I don't know. To this day I still don't know. But that's the one where it's like if you're making a beeline for an official like that, what happens once you finally get face to face? Are you gonna punch this guy?

Sean McIndoo (33:51)

That one was so fine, Shade. I don't even know if you. This is Battle of ontario like early 2000s. And, and Cujo's mad because he's given up a goal and he thinks it's interference and he charges over at Magoo and he slips and he takes out Magoo's legs. Magoo falls on top of him and like there's this moment where you can just tell Curtis Joseph is like, did I just get suspended for 20 games in the middle of the playoffs? Like what did I just do? And then Magoo's like okay with it. And then like Cujo kind of half heartedly goes back to arguing with him like a little bit like hey, that was interfere. No, I got, I'll go back to my crease and that, that was the end of it. So that's a pretty good nomination. Shannon, do you have, do you have any?

Shayna Goleman (34:35)

No, because I thought, I'm like thinking, I'm like what is the one you're thinking of? One specific instance. We're wrong otherwise. So it's a trap question here. Yeah, well, I'm glad the answer didn't come to me.

Sean McIndoo (34:44)

I'll give you two. And these are both again these are, these are old timers. So I understand if, if, if some of us may not get the references. One of the most famous goalie snaps of all time is Ron Hextall in the playoffs on Chris Chelios going after him where he just like during a whistle just attacks him in, in the late 80s Habs flyers. And that one to me is up there because you know who the goalie was for the Montreal Canadiens that night. Patrick Waugh.

Shayna Goleman (35:15)

Patrick.

Frankie Corrado (35:16)

Oh, my God.

Sean McIndoo (35:16)

Patrick Waugh never fighting Ron Hextall is like the equivalent of like Hogan and Flair never headlining Wrestlemania. Like, it's that. And that was the. That was the night it could have happened. But it was like a young Patrick Wa. But he is involved in the all timer, which is. We all remember with. With apologies to Hextel and Felix Pothin, who I think are the silver medalists for goalie fights. The most famous goalie fight, I would say, of all time is Patrick Wad Mike Vernon at the fight night at the Joe. The famous Avalanche Red Wing sprawl. Patrick Waugh and Mike Vernon go at it, and Vernon wins the fight. Wa gets cut up. One year later, Patrick Waugh fights Chris Osgood. Kind of gets, you know, a little bit of the revenge there. We almost had part three of the trilogy because there was a game between the Avalanche and the Red Wings where Patrick Waugh got involved in his own crease. And the Red Wings goalie came all the way down for part three. And you know who that Red Wings goalie was? Dominic Hasek came all the way down the ice to fight Patrick Waugh. And I gotta. Maybe the most exciting 10 seconds in NHL history was him making his way down there. And he gets down there and then what happens right as he gets there, he slips. He bowling balls into the pile, picks up the spare, and the officials jump on him. And we didn't get Dominic Hasick the for versus Patrick Waugh. Absolutely devastating.

Frankie Corrado (36:48)

Yeah, that would have been all time, perhaps the all time. There's nothing. There's nothing like having the headliners, right? Like, and it's the same in boxing. It's the same in ufc. It's the same when we get the heavyweight tilt in the NHL when. When we get delaurier versus Olivier. Like, that gets going on Twitter. Everyone stops what they're doing and they're like, I got to see this one.

Sean McIndoo (37:09)

What would be.

Frankie Corrado (37:10)

Like, that's what.

Sean McIndoo (37:10)

That would be the heavyweight battle for now. I mean, it's. Is it Bennington, or is Bennington the Jake Paul of goal?

Shayna Goleman (37:19)

I love that.

Frankie Corrado (37:21)

Okay, so Shane, I played minor hockey with. With Jordan all the way up, growing up. So we go way back. Benner is like this scrawny, skinny guy, and the joke always was that, like, couldn't bench press a plate. And then he finally could bench press a plate. And it was his Twitter bio, like, I can bench press a plate. So he's not like this big, burly, mean guy. It's just like a Persona that he has. But I will say this. I played with John Gibson. This is many years ago now. Like, we played together for the Kitchener Rangers. And Gibby was built like a player, like he was. He was big and thick like he was. He was more built than a lot of us, like the guys that were defensemen and players on the team. He would be like my, my sleeper pick for a goalie. That would do some serious damage.

Shayna Goleman (38:11)

I like that. I like the Lux now. I'm like thinking old Central Division, like now we've gotten, you know, Red Wings abs, and it's like, you know, that would be a really fun Stanley Cup Final, but it's like, we can go Detroit Blues and get a nice goalie tilt out of that. That would be a fun one.

Frankie Corrado (38:26)

And, And I think Jacob Markstrom, I've seen his wires cross and I've actually seen him fight in the ahl. I was on the ice for it. I think chances are I was doing something ratty. I actually know for a fact I was doing something ratty. And he fought and he. He's. He's pretty good too.

Sean McIndoo (38:44)

And shout out to Nadelkovich, now one of five goaltenders to have a fight and a goal in his career. Pretty good company. Billy Smith, Mike Smith, Chris Osgood, and of course, Ron Hextall. Not bad company to be in. Okay, I, I guess there was other things other than goalie fights. I mean, if we, if we have to, what else? Oh, yeah, there was a pretty big trade. Kiefer Sherwood goes to San Jose. I don't know what would feel more unlikely heading into the season. Key for Sherwood being the big debt, one of the big deadline names, or the San Jose Sharks being buyers. Question mark. What did we think of this deal?

Frankie Corrado (39:30)

Well, credit to San Jose and the players and War Sofsky because they've put themselves in a spot where they're not sellers. And they're making this trade because, yes, they want help now, but they're not all in right now. And they realize that there's a chance they can sign this guy, have some hardened skill in their lineup, which is something that's not easy to come by. They'll have the cap space to make it happen and kind of keep this thing rolling as, as the years go on here. But, you know, I don't know what you guys thought of the return. It was going to be hard for them to get a first round pick. It was going to be hard for them to get like a high end prospect in this kind of deal because as much as Kiefer Sherwood has done well the last couple of years, there's not like this huge pedigree here of him being a consistent 2030 goal scorer. He hits a lot, he's involved in the play a lot. He's had two good years in a row. When push comes to shove, like 60 career goals and a guy who was a tweener up until three years ago. So I think the return was pretty much as good as it was going to get. If you wanted to hold on a bit, you could have if you wanted to, if you're Vancouver. But I think this was probably the offer that you take and say, okay, we're going to move on and try and use these picks.

Shayna Goleman (40:48)

I'm torn on that, the timing of it, because I do wonder if they waited, could they have gotten more for teams who are up against the cap and go they need someone cheap, they need that. Like he feels like to me a final piece for a contender. Right. Like you look at who he's played with the Vancouver and I think that something that betters his case too because you're playing with guys like Dan Hine and Teddy Bluegill and you know, Drew o', Connor, the list is not great. It's not like he's in a true top six role and I don't think he's meant to be. I think like in a perfect world on a contender, he's right in the middle six. He's that secondary score. He's tough to play against. He can kill penalties now like he can score big goals and he can hit a ton. And that kind of player we've seen teams overpay for in the past. But it's tough to say. Like some bottom six centers bring back first round picks, but centers are always valued very highly in this league. A Blake Coleman brings back a first round pick, but it's two playoff runs of him. What would have helped Sherwood, I would think is the fact that there aren't a ton of utility guys like that on the market. So Vancouver could have waited. But on the other hand, the risk is too many buyers potentially fall out of the race because it does feel like we're starting to get some separation between teams in the playoff bubble and teams that are going to sink to the bottom of the standings. So it's a tough one for Vancouver in that regard. I would have liked to see them push for more, but maybe it wouldn't have been there. But I really love it for the Sharks and I didn't think I would, because, again, I thought this was a piece for a contender, not, you know, a fringe team. I could have seen a team like the Boston Bruins being like, that is who you need to solidify your case as a playoff team when I don't think they're in the right position for it to be spending assets after they started retooling. So Sharks have had assets forever. And it's not just the draft picks that they've had and drafted highly. It's all the ones they've collected along the way with just some really smart moves. So why not? You can afford to move two picks if you're San Jose. You can also afford to invest in his next contract, which a lot of teams, I would say, okay, buyer beware here, because, yes, on the surface, Sherwood looks like this impressive goal score over the last few years, but the streakiness and the ups and downs and riding high, you know, high shooting percentages, we've seen it come down and what, you know, what goes on from there. His game's not nearly as effective when he's not scoring goals, but the Sharks can afford it, right? Like, if he ages like Darren Helm, who's one of his comps for this season, it's a little bit worrisome, but they have a ton of cap space and they're going to have to fill out a roster somehow. And I also feel like he's going to be playing higher in the lineup there than he would elsewhere. So, like, put him on a line with Celebrini and Will Smith and let's see what happens. Like, I'm all for this for the Sharks.

Sean McIndoo (43:09)

Yeah. And I think we all presume that the Sharks will resign him. Although, I mean, we've. We've got six weeks to the trade deadline. Four weeks of that, you know, three or four weeks of actual NHL action. If Sharks fall out of the race by the deadline, who knows, maybe they turn around and flip them. But I think the. The interesting thing with him is as far as why does Vancouver do it right now? 17 goals on the season, over half of them. Nine of those goals in October. Guy got off to a great start. It's been not as productive since then, and maybe you don't want to let that get to the end of February and see how it goes.

Frankie Corrado (43:50)

Worst case, he's always going to hit, right? Like, he'll always have that. He'll be one of the hits leaders in the NHL. He'll play with energy, but it's hard to count on goal scoring for a guy who's got 60 in his career, and the majority have come over the last two years in dgb. Like you said early in this year. Before we go, I just want to chime in with something. Three years ago, Matt Barzell is chasing down Cale McCarr around the net. Makar falls and trips. Referee's arm goes up. Penalty is coming. Cale McCarr goes to the official and says, hey, he didn't trip me. I just lost an edge coming around the net, and guess what happened? They rescinded the call. They took it back. No penalty, no power play. Three years ago, that happened. So there's no reason why that couldn't have happened last night in the lane.

Sean McIndoo (44:43)

Hudson, Marcus, sounds to me like what you're saying is Foligno should have gone to the officials. You're blaming Foligno, a dirty liar.

Frankie Corrado (44:54)

I am not calling him that.

Sean McIndoo (44:55)

Say that to a team Italy teammates. That is going to make things interesting in the room. We might need that linesman.

Frankie Corrado (45:01)

That's my captain from the Sudbury Wolves, Marcus. And you know what he knows about gamesmanship and how to win games even though they lost any second.

Shayna Goleman (45:14)

Wait a second.

Frankie Corrado (45:15)

Wait a second. Yeah, gamesmanship.

Sean McIndoo (45:17)

Not quite sure how that works.

Frankie Corrado (45:19)

I don't apologize for nothing.

Sean McIndoo (45:20)

Frankie, what are you up to this week?

Frankie Corrado (45:23)

What do we got going on? Oh, you know what? I'm actually. I'm sure you guys know the news of Mickey Redmond who's gonna have surgery, so I'm actually headed to Winnipeg to fill in with Kenny Daniels on the Red Wings broadcast on Saturday night. Okay. So I'm really excited for that. It's. It's an honor and a privilege to work with Kenny and call a game for an Original Six franchise. So I won't be. Won't be. You know, won't be like Mick won't be. There's no way I'll ever come close to Mick and what he represents for that fan base. But super grateful to get the opportunity to fill in for him.

Sean McIndoo (46:02)

Awesome. We will keep an eye out for that and we'll talk to you next week. And Shane and I will be back for segment three.

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Sean McIndoo (48:26)

Well, many thanks good sir. Heareth my Discover card.

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Sean McIndoo (48:34)

Yeah, they do here. Discover is accepted at the places I love to shop. Get it with the times.

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Sean McIndoo (48:42)

You're playing the loot. Yeah, and it sounds pretty good, right? Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide, based on the February 2025 Nielsen report. Okay, we're back. Shayna. Though I guess the other piece of news we heard from Linus Ohmark, finally he did a sit down with tsn. Pretty. Pretty interesting stuff. Talking about his absence from the team. Talking about the. The, the rumors that went around. Talking about the statement that the team put out. Did you see the interview? What were your thoughts on that?

Shayna Goleman (49:26)

Yeah, watched the interview. I. I hate that he was forced into the spotlight with this. When a Person, a player. You know, I think sometimes people forget, like, these are people, right? It's. I know it's, like, easy to think of them as, like, an object in a game that you watch, but, like, this is a person with a life. And spewing stuff can have repercussions. So it's unfortunate that he was put in the position where he couldn't have just focused on his own mental health and doing what he needs for himself. But now this is what you come back to. And I know, you know, if you have the privilege to be one of 64 goaltenders at the NHL level, give or take, you know, you're going to be put in the spotlight, and this is what comes with it. But at the end of the day, I just feel like he. He shouldn't have had to, but he did. And I think it's an important listen for anyone of what someone might be going through, and, you know, why you should be empathetic about it. But I think where my brain keeps swirling is this debate of how the Senators have handled it a little bit more of should they have faced the rumors head on? And in a way you could say, given the rumors, life. And the other side of it is if you don't. And things keep swirling. I keep thinking about the Connor Bedard rumor a couple years ago that was so ridiculous, but it just went off the rails. And, you know, maybe it's different here because this isn't, you know, rising superstar corner of your cornerstone of your organization trying to, like, settle things down so they don't have to listen to it, but it's still a person.

Sean McIndoo (50:57)

It is. And I. I get the argument against the Senators handling it the way they did, especially with. With the statement, because you ended up with, you know, the night that statement went out, suddenly they're talking about it on tsn. A couple nights later, they're talking about it on Hockey Night in Canada. Two broadcasts that wouldn't have addressed these rumors. So suddenly, you know, I'm getting texts from my parents saying, like, what's the deal with this goalie in Ottawa? It did kind of fan the Flames. But that a key part of that interview last night was. Was all Mark saying, I love that they did that. I love that the team put that statement out, that Steve Stales kind of came to my defense, to me, that that kind of puts it to rest if. If the player involved is like, I love that they did that and, And. And wanted them to do it and wanted them to get ahead of it, or because you Know, as he said, I'm getting texts. So before the statement comes out, he's already getting these, you know, texts from friends and, you know, whoever is saying, like, hey, is everything okay? I'm hearing about all this stuff going on. The player wanted the statement out there or appreciated it once it got out there. That's enough for me. And the same thing with the interview last night. Clearly, that's something where I'm sure the Senators are involved in putting that together, obviously. But that's not the Senators pushing a guy out in front of the camera saying, you have to talk about this. That is somebody saying, I want to go out there and talk about this and sort of, you know, for lack of a better term, maybe clear my name and just talk through what does it feel like to be in the middle of something like this? And as far as I'm concerned, even though I had some, you know, some. Some criticisms of the statement at the time it came out, if the player involved is saying, no, you know what? I loved it. That was fantastic. That's good enough for me. I'm. I'm ready to sort of put it to rest then.

Shayna Goleman (53:01)

Yeah, I agree with you, like, that. That's all, like, you needed to hear of him saying it. And, you know, he humanizes situation some more. I get it. With goalie is like, you take off the mask and now he's sitting down, and it's like a vulnerable thing he's doing. So, you know, credit to him for that. With the team statement, I think the fact that it came from the general manager and, you know, from high up is most important here. Right. It's not like the coach in a scrum is doing this, or the players in the locker room had the responsibility. I feel like Stao's doing it. It kind of not absolved, but it took the pressure off everyone else to handle the situation. And then everybody else started chiming in as they felt comfortable to do it. And it was such a strong statement. This wasn't some, like, fluff piece thrown out there. It was like, hang on. So if you're going to do it, do it. And I will give a lot of credit to that.

Sean McIndoo (53:44)

Yeah. And it almost, in a way, you know, I. I think I was like everyone else when I read the statement. I was like, holy smokes, man. That's a. That's. That's maybe a little over the top, but maybe that was the smart way to do it, because that kind of made Steve Stairs the. Not. Not the villain in the story, but one of the main characters in the story now as everyone's pointing at him saying, did it was the language too strong? This and that. Maybe it takes some, some heat off the rest of them. The, the last thing I'll say on this is, you know, if, if all Mark wanted that statement out there, if all Mark wanted the team to come to his defense, great. I think that's, as I said, that that's, that's all I need to hear for this particular one. I guess the one caveat I throw out there is this won't be the last time something like this happens. Players take, take leave fairly. You know, it's fairly common these days. Very often there's not any information released, there's no information. Sometimes that vacuum gets filled with nonsense. I guess I would just say to everyone, let's not. The next time this happens on some other team, that player might not want the attention and might not want the statement from his. So if, if a team doesn't put something like this out, let's not all go, oh, that must mean it's true because the GM isn't putting out this forceful statement. You know, every situation can be different. And if there's a player out there says, no, I don't want to dignify this with a response. Let's not all jump on this and say, okay, well, that tells us that, that this was obviously real. You know what I mean?

Shayna Goleman (55:23)

Yeah, all good points there, Sean. And hopefully Omar gets back when he's ready and everything, you know, can be put to rest and he can just focus on his own mental health and none of this chaos. So Sean's power, you know, went out. So now our Sean's per 60 read has absolutely plummeted for this episode. So thanks to Sean while he managed to be here and to Frankie and thanks for listening to the Athletics hockey show. The boys return next Wednesday and Haley and Gentile have the next show tomorrow.

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