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The Athletic Hockey Show
USA and Canada on gold medal collision course: Men’s Olympic semifinals recap | Instant Reaction
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James Myrtle
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Jesse
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Jesse
Not with that attitude. Introducing store to door switch and get a new device with expert setup and delivery. Delivery available for select devices purchased@boostmobile.com. This is the Athletic Hockey Show. Hey everybody, welcome back to the Athletic Hockey Show. We've got another live edition of the show today. We just finished watching the United States dominate their semi final Olympic matchup against Slovakia. Canada took care of business. It was a little closer earlier this morning. Setting up the gold medal game. 12 years in the making. I'm joined by James Myrtle in Toronto. Man have these hockey games been fun. I'll start by asking you, do you feel the same way as me in that as much as I'm enjoying this, I feel almost disappointed. Like I can't believe we've been robbed of this Olympic drama and these players playing for their countries for as long as we have.
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James Myrtle
Hey, Jesse. Yeah, I mean, that's what I was going to say too, as you say that it's been 12 years and it's. I was thinking even, you know, for someone like yourself, like what's the first best on, best tournament you remember watching? Like you, you know, you haven't even been able to see that many of these. You know, I was thinking of like the 96 World cup that you. The US won, as you know, and we. We've definitely. I remember sitting on the couch with my dad in Nagano in 98. It was the middle of the night, it was like two or three in the morning or whatever. And the Canada lost, lost that game into the checks. And it's. It's been such a long time coming. And the great thing is we get the matchup that everyone wanted and it should be a great game and one that everyone's going to be talking about for a long time. And the good news is that there's going to be an international calendar now where we're going to get a World cup every, every four years. We're getting Olympics every four years. And hopefully cross our fingers it stays that way for good going forward. Now we don't have any of this goofy infighting that. That causes us not to have these tournaments.
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Jesse
Right? And as. As much fun as these almost upsets have been, and as an American fan, I can say I've been. I've been a little disappointed in Canada's, Canada's ability to come back. But at the end of the day, at the end of the day, this is the game we all wanted and this is the game that hockey. Like this. I was kind of talking about it earlier. This is so great for the sport of hockey. People that aren't huge hockey fans are watching this and there isn't a matchup that works better for hockey that will put it on a bigger stage, that will get more eyes on it than the two powerhouses, the U.S. and Canada. The teams we've, like I said, we've been waiting for years for these teams to play and we're going to get to see them play on the biggest stage.
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James Myrtle
Well, could you imagine if the checks or the fins would have knocked Canada off the air? That would have kind of come out of the tournament. I feel like, I mean, maybe this isn't fair to the other teams but I feel like it would have been a bit of a cakewalk for the U.S. i mean maybe there would have been some tests there against Finland or whatever. But I mean it had the, it had the potential to be a hugely disappointing tournament and we've seen that. I remember Turin, there was all this hype about, you know, Canada and the US are they going to meet in 2006 in the final. And then it ended up being Sweden, Finland and you know, the die hard hockey people like you and I were watching that gold medal final. But the casual fans, you're talking about the, you know, like, like there's, you know, Skip Bayless is talking about hockey on social media. Like it's really reaching the zeitgeist now with this game on Sunday. I guess maybe one of the only things that's going to hurt it is the time that the game is on. Right. It's going to be so early for you in the morning and I'm sure they're going to lose some viewers with that being the case.
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Jesse
Yeah, I've been waking up at 3am for the games all week. The gold medal game's not quite that early. 5am Just stay up.
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James Myrtle
You don't have kids. I would just stay up and watch that. Like you're kind of one or the other when you have it like that.
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Jesse
3am is pretty close. I will say someone was complaining about the time for the gold medal game last night in our locker room before we played beer league And I said 5am is tough but at least, least 5am feels like you're waking up early in the morning. 3am feels like it's the middle of the night. It doesn't feel like I'm waking up early. It just feels like it's the middle of the night and I'm up. I have been staying up after those. It's going to bed a little earlier than normal. But yeah, 5:00am it's, it is odd. I wonder if it has to do with the fact that it's the last day of the Olympics and like the closing ceremony and all that. Because wouldn't it, I think they're playing it at like noon local time. Why not just push that back to a 7pm local time and that way North America can watch it at a reasonable time. It's, it is a little bit odd.
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James Myrtle
It's six hours ahead from here so that would be 2pm local and the closing ceremonies are at I believe 8:30 in, in Milan. So they're Trying to get the game, even if there's full. I mean, I mean, it's continuous overtime. Right. But with three on three, it's probably not going to be that long. There's no, no shootout in the gold medal game, thankfully. But let's say they have, you know, 10, 15 minutes of overtime, then you have the medal ceremony and everything. Like, they don't. They want that game and all of that to be over by the closing ceremony starts. So I think that that's part of the rationale. But it's going to hurt the TV audience for sure. I mean, again, like, obviously you and I are going to be up and hopefully it gets some people to wake up early to see that game because it's going to be a really special moment for sure.
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Jesse
Yeah. I mean, these, it's, it's so amazing watching just the players faces on the ice after the games. Like these guys, they play huge games in the NHL all the time. Like, the stakes are as high as they can get. But it seems like these stakes are a bit higher for everyone, especially because of the 12 year gap. Like that's part of it too is like, it sucks that we didn't get to see it for 12 years, but if we had been doing this every four years, it wouldn't feel as special as it does because we had to wait so long.
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James Myrtle
Yeah, I mean, and there's guys like McKinnon and McDavid and Matthews and I mean, go down the list that have never played in an event like this before and they've been waiting for this for years. And you know, it was a big part of like the CBA negotiations with the NHL and the PA is that the players were pushing really hard that they had to go back to the Olympics. And so, you know, I know McDavid's someone that's been, you don't hear him come out really vocally critical of much. And this was one of the issues that he came out and said, we need to be there. And you can tell how much it means to him just watching him on the ice. I mean, McDavid is playing at probably another level, or at the very least, he's playing at the level he was in the Stanley Cup Final. And it's amazing how good the best players look even in this best on, best field. Like, McDavid looks faster than even the fastest players in the world out there. So Sunday is going to be incredible. And I, I, you know, cross my fingers that, cross our fingers that everybody's healthy and everyone's going to be there. I know it looked like Tage Thompson potentially was hurt. We don't know what Sidney Crosby. Josh Morrissey's out for Canada. Hopefully no one else goes down between now and Sunday because it would be great to see everyone at full strength for this game.
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Jesse
For sure. And you mentioned it. Let's get to those games that we watched today. We'll start with the U.S. game. It wasn't quite as entertaining. They finally got off to a good start. This is a team that has really struggled out of the gates in pretty much every game of this entire tournament. They've ended up being able to find their game in time to win comfortably most of the time. Obviously, the one against Sweden was close, but today they pull away from Slovakia. They end up winning six to two. Even the two goals that Slovakia scored. It was when the game was pretty much out of reach and over at that point. What's your biggest takeaway from. From today's semifinal for the U.S. to me, it shows that if you give them space, this team is dangerous. But I don't expect the. I expect the gold medal game to be so tight. Checking much more like what we saw from. From Finland and Canada earlier in the day. This Slovakia game, kind of a throwaway for me.
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James Myrtle
Yeah, I think that that's right. Yeah. And they were overmatched. And you look at Slovakia's roster coming in, and it's just like, what do they have five guys in the NHL? And even that you're talking about really young players. And, you know, Slepkowski and. And Nemech, they acquitted themselves really well. And I mean, you might have been one of the only people on staff that knew the goalie. I mean, he's probably in your rankings somewhere.
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Jesse
Is that right? Yeah, yeah. He's. He's struggled in the AHL to this season, to the point where he got sent down to the ECHL at one point. I thought he was great in that game. And we were kind of messaging during the game. At first I see his reaction when he's going off the ice and like, I'm. I'm so used to, like, NHL. Like, once you're eliminated, it's over. I forget that there's even a bronze medal game tomorrow. I'm like, why not just let that guy play this game out? I mean, come on, like, he's your best goalie. Like, he's carried you to this point. Then I remembered, okay, they do have a bronze medal game that. That is pretty meaningful for that team.
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James Myrtle
I. I said to you, like, bronze for them. Is their gold really like if they came to this tournament and they were going to get like, that's going to be a national celebration if they get a bronze medal there. So. And they did beat Finland during the round robins. So you know, save, save the kid and rest him and cross your fingers that, I mean they're, they're back on the ice in less than 24 hours. Right. And that's going to be a really tough game. And for Finland, I mean Finland always plays hard in those bronze medal games too. I think that they have, they've won four medals at best on best Olympics with the NHL there. Four medals in the five years and I think is it two silvers and two bronze? I mean they, they've been, they've won more medals than any other country. So Finland's going to really want to win that game too. And I think that bronze medal game will be entertaining if you know people want to tune that one in tomorrow.
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Jesse
Par le tu francais, hablas espanol Par le italiano.
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Jesse
I thought Halavi was great Today, I thought he made some big saves. The US Just. There's so much pressure and. And they just seem to be like. To me, they've looked like they've gotten better as the tournament has gone on. They look like they're finding their. Whereas, like the Canadians, it just seemed like it almost amazingly, like right off the bat, there's just so much chemistry between Celebrini and. I mean, when you're that good, maybe that's just. They don't even need chemistry. Even if there is no chemistry, they're so good that they're just gonna score anyway. But to me, it looked like for the US it's been more of a process of trying to find that game. And maybe it's competition level today. Maybe the. The Swedish. The Sweden game was obviously a lot closer, but they do look like they're getting a lot more comfortable as this. As this tournament's gone on.
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James Myrtle
Yeah. And maybe Canada is getting a little bit worse or. Or. I mean, the checks came out and they played so well in that quarterfinal game that it seemed like Canada wasn't quite ready for that. And even against Finland, too, I mean, I think it seemed like Canada was trying to sort of skill their way through that game today against Finland when they really. And then when it got down to where they realized that Finland was. Was basically packing the house in front of the net and they needed to cycle it back to the point and just generate. And that's where then when they started to get all of those shots and it became just an avalanche. I mean, at one point, I had the shots. I think it was 23 to 6 from the first period until late in the third. They were just completely dominant. So Canada found their game, and I think that that's probably the style they're going to have to play against the US to win. But I. I'm expecting the gold medal game to look a lot different than both of these games did, and probably tight checking, probably low margins, you know, and I think goaltending could potentially be a big factor. You know, both the goaltenders, Bennington and Hellebach, have been pretty good in this tournament, but probably haven't been tested as much as they could be in the gold medal game. And, I mean, you're the goalie guy, so I don't know what you're seeing. Bennington as someone watching the Canadian side still makes me a little bit nervous, just with the season that he's had some of the rebounds that he's kicking out, sliding around in the net like, you could see in the game against Finland, he was. He was sometimes going way out of the net. That would be one concern for me that the US could potentially take advantage of there. And Hellebox, interesting, because, I mean, we know what he's been in the NHL in the regular season, but he has this reputation, and he just hasn't really delivered in a huge big game moment that I can recall, certainly not in the NHL playoffs. So he's got something to prove here, too. So I think the goaltending matchup's gonna be fascinating there, for sure.
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Jesse
Anyone who's been listening to our live breakdowns all week has probably heard this from me before. But yes, Biddington, I'm concerned with Bennington. Not. Not to the point where he's been bad, but this. And I was fighting people on Twitter with this all day yesterday or two days ago when I. When he ends up making the big save at the end. And everyone thinks that that proves it wrong. But this is what I've seen from Jordan Bennington, the same goalie I've seen in St. Louis all year. And the only difference is now he's got six elite defensemen in front of him that make a goalie's life a lot easier. To me, he looks like he's not reading the play as well as he typically does. It just looks like he's. He's guessing a little bit. It looks like he's. And. And when he guesses, he's coming way out of his net, like you said. And I think he's. He's always been an aggressive goalie in terms of, like, the depth he plays at, but he's playing a few more inches out. And like, that may not sound like a lot, but it is a lot. And when there's a rebound, it puts you in a bad position. And you look at the numbers for St. Louis this year, and I think they've allowed the seventh fewest rebound shots of any team in the league, but the third most rebound goals. And it makes sense. It matches what I'm seeing on the ice of a goalie who is. Maybe he's compensating a little bit because he doesn't feel great. He's not like, he's just not feeling it. He's not in his groove. So pucks are beating him. So in order to kind of compensate for that, he's like, okay, I'm going to take a couple more inches of depth here. I'm going to be a little more aggressive, and hopefully more pucks will hit me and that's fine and it works. Except for those second chance opportunities. The further you get out, the more out of position you are for a second chance. And it's going to be. We've seen that in this tournament. Rarely has it cost Canada because their defense has been so good at getting to those pucks before the opposition do. But you look at the way the US is built and a lot of guys that like to go to the front of the net and crash both the Kachuk Eichel gets there. Matthews has scored a ton of goals from right around that, that same area. So it's, it's a super interesting stylistic matchup. I still think Canada, player for player, skill for skill, is clearly the better team. But I do think that the cracks in their armor that you're trying to find in this Canadian team, I think this American team might be specifically built to take advantage of some of those and, and Jordan Bennington is one of them. Now, having said all that, Jordan Bennington is also super athletic and has a knack for coming up with huge saves and big moments. So while I sit here and say I, I, I don't think he's fully fixed his game, I don't like when I watch him. I think he's still dealing with the same things he has in St. Louis. I don't think he's fixed his game. But also, if the game goes to overtime and there's a breakaway for the United States, Jordan Bennington, I'm going to bet on him making that save because it's what he does.
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James Myrtle
Yeah, he's got the kind of ice in his veins. You can see where there's these moments and you're concerned, but then that's when he makes the save. And that's kind of what happened at Four nations too, right? Where he wasn't always airtight in the, you know, middle of the first period or whatever. My concern would be, though, it just takes 1 or 2m. I think, is going to separate who wins this game on Sunday. I mean, it's, I think that Canada is the better team, but the margins are so close, you know, and I, I look at the way that I think the US's blue line looks better than Canada's right now. I mean, Makar is obviously a huge difference maker and he's going to play 32, 33 minutes in Sunday, and that's one of the equalizers for Canada. But without Josh Morrissey, they don't really have the puck movers that, that, I think that, that the US has, you Know, you look at the way Sanderson skates and the way that Hughes moves the puck and Warrensky, and it's almost like on every pairing, they've got a guy that's really, really dynamic, and that can make things happen. The Canada went more for the. Some of the prevent defense. You know, this can be Paro and Sanheim, and, you know, they bring Drew Doughty for his. His experience. And you look at the numbers from the tournament, and they're not really generating anything offensively. And so a lot of it rests with. With Makar, a little bit from Theodore, which we saw against Finland today. You know, so it's. That's going to be really interesting to see if the US has been building a. A better blue line every year. I would say over the last five, 10 years, there are more Americans playing D in the NHL than there have ever been. I think they're up to something like 30% of the NHL's defensemen are coming from the US now, which is incredibly high compared to where it was, you know, let's say, 20 years ago. They're catching Canada, I think, on the blue line. They've already caught Canada in goal and passed them, and they're getting close on defense. So, I mean, I think those are going to be their strengths. And the forward group, I mean, where they're going to struggle to match Canada is right at the top of the lineup. I mean, with McDavid playing the way he is, Celebrini playing the way he is, and McKinnon playing, they're just. They're playing like players that are possessed. And I don't know that the top end of the forward group of the US Is going to be able to match that. So it's going to be super interesting stylistically whether. Let me ask you this. Like, do you think this game is going to be kind of like a street fight, and there's going to be a lot of physicality and that. That's going to define the game, or you think it's going to come down to some skill plays between the best players?
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Jesse
My gut is street fight, but because it's the Olympics and we've seen these games like, they're. They're not all being called the same. We're seeing some games where they let a lot go. We're seeing some games where they're calling everything. I tend to think that in the gold medal, with these two teams that are all NHL players, they're probably going to let them play a little more physically. But if you take a Penalty. I mean, these two power plays are unstoppable. Like, they, like the US Power play is amazing. Canada's power play is probably even better. You cannot afford to take stupid penalties in this gold medal game or you will lose your country a gold medal. Like, so. So part of me wonders if the fact that it's not four nations, it's not the NHL, like, totally NHL rules that we. We are playing under, IHF rules that are a little more. They like to call penalties. Like, I remember talking to Mark Stone before he left for Milan, and I was like, hey, Mark, I'm writing a story on like, the difference in the rules, and I'm noticing that the rules aren't all that different. The IHF has kind of adopted a lot of NHL's rules. Like, you've played in world championships, right? What's different in your eyes? And he's like, honestly, they just call more penalties. Like, he's like, I don't think the penalties themselves are worded any differently. They just call more. And I wonder if that will dissuade the players from making this a knockdown, drag out, fight because they're so worried about putting either of these power plays on the ice.
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James Myrtle
Do we know who the officials are for the gold medal game? I wonder if they're going to put two NHL officials there or. What they've been doing is they've been splitting it right, with an NHL official and a European because seven of the refs are from the NHL and seven of them are from the European leagues. And maybe that's what they do. Again, I haven't really liked the officiating in the Olympics, to be honest. I mean, I think there's been a lot of bad calls. The games today. The games today I think were okay. I know Tamusani didn't like the, the. The high stick on McKinnon late in the game. I mean, that's obviously a heartbreaker for Finland that it. That it happened like that. But that's a penalty. I mean, that would have been called an NHL playoff game if it happened, you know, and I, and I know there's some controversy. McKinnon snaps his head back and everything. But you've seen a lot of him in the Western Conference. That's kind of. That's the competitor that McKinnon is. Right. Like, they're not going to call an embellishment on Nathan McKinnon with two minutes left in that game.
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Jesse
No. I also think that everyone who's like, so upset at his facial movement when he gets hit in the face with a hockey stick. I think a lot of those people probably haven't been hit in the face with a hockey.
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James Myrtle
It hurts. I know. There's a reason why I wear a full cage when I play because, like, I don't want to get hit with a. There could. Those composite sticks, it's like being hit with like a brick or something. It's not, you know, it's not a lot of fun. So maybe I can't read it a little bit, but like, he's, he's, he's a big personality. Right? Like, he's, like, he's, he reacts that way to everything happening on the ice, not just being hit the face with a stick.
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Jesse
Yeah. And, and like, just your natural reaction when something hits you in the face is to, like, immediately like, it's not necessarily selling the call. I think he might have sold it, but I also think people are overblowing that a little bit.
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- [23:47]
Jesse
The last thing I want to get to previewing this gold medal game. And you mentioned the top end of Canada's forwards. They've been like, they started off with Tom Wilson up on that top line. They've started to move Wilson down to that kind of line with Marshand and Bennett, and they've been playing the three studs, Celebrini, McKinnon and Sorry and McDavid altogether. The US obviously has more depth than any team they've played to this point. Do you expect Canada to just roll with that top heavy line or do you think that they might try to go with a more balanced approach against a U.S. team? That's maybe the depth can, can go in the US's favor. If Canada does stack that top line.
- [24:26]
James Myrtle
It's. It seems like what John Cooper's doing is he's starting with Wilson there and then when he needs a goal or he's not liking the way that things are looking, then he switches it up. But what I would say is that the Marshawn Bennett and Wilson line played really well in this game and they were a big part of the win over. And I think with the physicality being part of. I guess the only caveat is that he might want Wilson on that line to start the game just to see what kind of a game it is. And then if it is the street fight, he doesn't have all of his finesse guys out there, you know, getting mixed up in some skirmish with the Tkachuk brothers. So he may want to have Wilson up on that line just to be a little bit of a policeman and get involved in that stuff. So that. And he doesn't want Nathan McKinnon getting in fights the way he was against France, you know, and he wants him on the power play scoring goals when one of the Kachuks takes a penalty that they shouldn't take. So I suspect you'll see Wilson start on that line and then as soon as Cooper wants to, he can, and it has the feel of the game, he'll switch it up because that's been kind of a cheat code for Canada that you put those three players together. I mean, McKinnon's going to probably going to win the heart this year. McDavid obviously is the, the class of the league as the best player in the league. Celebrini is coming fast. I mean, he's at least in the top 10. So you've got three of the 10 or maybe even three of the five best forwards in the league all playing on the same line. They've been unstoppable, you know, and celebrating. His numbers are celebrating. His numbers are incredible. So McDavid now has more points in a best on best NHL Olympics than anyone has ever had. Celebrity is two behind him. If Celebrini gets one more point, he will tie for second ever for a player in NHL Olympics. With 11 points and he's 19. You know, the record for a teenager was Evgeny Malkin back in the. I think that probably would have been Turin in 2006, and I think he had six points. Celebrini's got 11 already, so. Or 10 already. I mean, it's. It's absolutely incredible what he's been doing. The, the flip side of that, though, is that Canada hasn't gotten a lot from his depth players. That's what everyone was talking about in the game against the Czechs is that, where are these other guys? And then Suzuki gets the goal, Marner gets the. The goal in overtime. Finally they got some secondary scoring, but they have a lot of guys that have no goals or have only one point. Hagel, Jarvis. Trying to think who scored today and who didn't, but, you know, they. They had a. Coming into this game or midway through the Finland game, they had five or six of their forwards with zero or one point, and that's probably not going to get it done against the US. And I don't know how you feel about the US's forward depth, but Canada should have some advantage on the third and fourth line. It just hasn't shown up in this tournament yet.
- [26:57]
Jesse
Yeah, I think the US has been getting more contributions from, like, different places. Jack Hughes has been awesome. Brock Nelson was great early in the tournament. We haven't seen him as much in the knockout stage, but. And then like, the Eichel Kachuk line has been basically great throughout. A little more. But I, But I agree with you. Just player for player. Canada, the forward depth is much better, but just maybe some of those guys haven't shown up as much in this tournament. All right, before we get out of here, let's do some picks. Who you got in the bronze medal game?
- [27:26]
James Myrtle
Bronze medal, I'm going to say Finland pulls it out. I mean, Slovakia just doesn't have the NHL talent, so we'll see. It's always nice to have upsets, but the Fins deserve it. They've had a pretty good tournament. I mean, they lost the one game to start, and then they've been excellent since then. So, you know, like I said, they've won more medals in NHL Olympics than anybody, so I'm going to pick them.
- [27:44]
Jesse
I'll take Slovakia just in the, like, motivational. I think it means more for them, so I'll take just.
- [27:50]
James Myrtle
Yeah, it will mean everything to them. Yeah, like I said, it'll be a national holiday there if they win the bronze, so. Which I don't know if you can say about that many places, right?
- [27:58]
Jesse
They'll build a statue of Halawi. Let's do a gold medal game and let's do scores. I'll go first this time. I will take the United States and I'll say two, one in a knockdown, drag out fight. I will go out on a limb and say Connor Hellebuck, I don't know if he's going to get the chance in the playoffs this year because the jets don't look like they're heading anywhere near the playoffs. So he doesn't have the chance to kind of like exercise those demons of can he be the, the man in the big, in the big moment. So I think he does it to. Sorry. Two days from now. I think he does it in the gold medal game. One goal gets by him and he gets the win. And we kind of stop that narrative, at least for a little while. What do you got?
- [28:35]
James Myrtle
All right, all right. I'm gonna just make it interesting. I'm gonna pick Canada. Three, three, two and overtime for Canada celebrity in the, in the three on. It's gonna be three on three overtime, which is going to be ridiculous. In, in, In Vancouver in 2010 it was 4 and 5. 4 at least when, when Crosby scored the golden goal. 3 on 3 is, I think 3 on 3 probably favors Canada, right? Which is the way that McDavid can skate and in Makar and you know, I know the US has some skaters, but they're built more for 5 on 5 hockey. So I think Canada has to feel pretty good if it does get to overtime.
- [29:06]
Jesse
Totally agree. Yeah, 5 on 5. Like the US wants small area games. Like just the less room the better. If it goes to three on three, I will not feel, feel good for the US's chances. I think, I think like you said, it favors Canada big time. Man, I can't wait for this game. It's going to be so much fun. It's going to be 5am my time, but I'm sure people are going to be having beers for breakfast that day. It's going to. It's almost like watching it reminds me of like watching the World cup of soccer. So should be a lot of fun. Thanks for joining and listening everybody today. Thanks James, for joining me and talking this through. We will be live once again tomorrow right after the bronze medal game between Finland and Slovakia. And of course we're going to have full gold medal and Olympic tournament recap Sunday at 1pm Eastern Time. We'll be on here as soon as the gold medal game ends
- [29:56]
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